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Investing in baseball/basketball Cards ...

by discrat
25 replies
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In the last two months I brought out my baseball card collection from a young boy. In gem mint condition( yes you have to send them off to get graded) I have a few that sold for at auction including EBay for $50k + per card .

So this got me excited and now iam investing in Victor Wembanyama Rookie Cards. In 10 to 15 years from now I predict my $2k worth of investing in his cards ( when he becomes a household name like Jordan and Lebron) these investements of cards will balloon well over $100k or more.

I bought only gem mint wembanyama on eBay. Iam really excited to what Wembanyama has in store for the NBA in the next couple of decades.
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  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    In the last two months I brought out my baseball card collection from a young boy. In gem mint condition( yes you have to send them off to get graded) I have a few that sold for at auction including EBay for $50k + per card .
    )
    50 Grand is that a mistake or was it an Honest Wagner card? ;>)

    In all seriousness what company does the grading? Also, I'm curious about what year the cards are from. I tried getting a collector to buy cards from the late 60's and he was uninterested. Besides them, I have a complete set of all cards from 1984 and several more baseball cards from around that time, taking up space.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post


      In all seriousness what company does the grading? Also, I'm curious about what year the cards are from. I tried getting a collector to buy cards from the late 60's and he was uninterested. Besides them, I have a complete set of all cards from 1984 and several more baseball cards from around that time, taking up space.
      Hey Don it all comes down to how well they Grade (Grade1-10) . Grading consist of four variables.
      1.Are the corners pointy and unscathed
      2.Are the edges smooth and unaffected
      3.Is the actual surface of the Card smooth and umsmeared
      4.Is the centering spot on.

      It's totally crazy the difference in price between a Grade of 10 ( Gem Mint) and a Grade of 9 ( Mint) for a Card. For instance, my Aaron at grade 10 is over $50K and with one Point below at Grade 9 ( mint) it goes for about $500 !!! Thats a 99% discrepancy. Gem mint in older cards is extremely rare. Even if the Card has perfect corners and edges it's usually the centering that is a little off. And that is a fresh card right out of the pack being at Grade 9 or worse..

      I tell my wife how I kick myself not knowing this when I was a kid buying cards in the 70s and 80s flinging them around not thinking of what I was doing lol
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    well, it made such a nice noise in my 1958 Schwinn bike spokes. Sounded cool. And along with many other

    During the collector craze of the early 90's, I worked part-time at Spellbinders, a local shop which sold and bought cards (along with comic books, games)...and it made me cry.

    Cause as a kid in the 50's with access to free comic books and gum, I knew mommy tossed out a fortune when I left for the Navy. A mountain of first edition comics, and a dresser full of cards...going back to the teens.

    Good of you to think ahead...just keep them safe and stored properly, and someday...just don't let the kiddies see how we used to soup up our bikes with a clothespin and a Mickey Mantle rookie card...Vroom, Vroom...cry, cry, cry.

    GordonJ


    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    In the last two months I brought out my baseball card collection from a young boy. In gem mint condition( yes you have to send them off to get graded) I have a few that sold for at auction including EBay for $50k + per card .

    So this got me excited and now iam investing in Victor Wembanyama Rookie Cards. In 10 to 15 years from now I predict my $2k worth of investing in his cards ( when he becomes a household name like Jordan and Lebron) these investements of cards will balloon well over $100k or more.

    I bought only gem mint wembanyama on eBay. Iam really excited to what Wembanyama hss in store for the NBA in the next couple of decades.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Hey Don, a T206 Honus Wagner card sold for $7.25 mil in 2022. The one I have for over $50K is a gem mint 73' Aaron.

      Btw, the gold standard grading outfit is called PSA out in California.

      Hey Gordon did you by chance collect baseball cards in 1952?? That year contains the holy grail of baseball cards; the rookie Micky Manyle one. It recently sold at auction for $12.5 mil
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Hey Don, a T206 Honus Wagner card sold for $7.25 mil in 2022. The one I have for over $50K is a gem mint 73' Aaron.

        Btw, the gold standard grading outfit is called PSA out in California.

        Hey Gordon did you by chance collect baseball cards in 1952?? That year contains the holy grail of baseball cards; the rookie Micky Manyle one. It recently sold at auction for $12.5 mil
        Had it. Quick story. In my neighborhood we had three big time ball players, Tony Sams, a second baseman for the Yankees pre WWII getting ready to be called up...and Harry Keller and Jane Jacobs (made famous in A LEAGUE OF THEIR OWN)...so we were a hot baseball town.

        Tony Sams' son, Jim, and I were neighborhood friends and I was amazed at his dad's 10,000++ collection of cards from the beginning of baseball...I reckon, if nothing happened to it, Jim and his grand kids were well taken care of.

        In the 50;s and 60's very few had sleeves, or protective covers for most of their cards, only true collectors, like Tony Sams, took that care. Now Mickey Mantle, I hated him because my dad hated the Yankees...he had played ball with Harry Keller and we followed the Indians back then, when they had World Series caliber teams. I traded my rooking Mantle for a rookie Rocky Colavito, my man.

        Hated the yanks, quickly traded away all cards to get me a Jimmy Piersall, or any of the real players back then...so, as sad stories go, only some of my Comic Books would have out sold some of those cards.

        Anyhow, glad you find joy in collecting and looking ahead. I want to go back in time to my 10 year old self and just give him a few hints on a handful of items he should sock away...alas, no DeLoreans for me.

        OH, if we only knew, and I guess you are that knowledge for your sons, grandchildren if you have them.

        Now, no more talk of that Yankee SOB Mantle. Cry, cry, cry.

        GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Damn , Gordon , you actually had that Mantle in your hands. Oh my !!!!

          Well if it's any consolation you probably had it creased and bent by the time you traded it. So instead of being worth $12.5 mil at Gem Mint it probably graded a PSA 6. That would make it only worth about $300k
          or so
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      • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Btw, the gold standard grading outfit is called PSA out in California.
        First off thanks for the information. I may break open the complete box set to have the Mark Maguire Rookie card appraised. My friend years back had Roberto Clemente's rookie card. I wonder if he still has it?

        Silver Age Spider-Man comics bring in a decent buck if you can find any at a garage sale. They move quickly on eBay if the price is marked right. Especially if the pictures back up the comic's condition.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    This just might be skewed opinion. Any area can be a type of investment or long term speculation. When it's a personal interest and you are able to hold it long term and keep things in pristine condition.

    There are many things experts won't talk about because they make no fees and it only works as an investment for a narrow band of people.

    You collected baseball cards and where able to keep them safe for long enough for them to increase in value substantially.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      This just might be skewed opinion. Any area can be a type of investment or long term speculation. When it's a personal interest and you are able to hold it long term and keep things in pristine condition
      Iam just really curious to how many businessmen have made a long term, decent 'living' buying and selling collectibles like baseball cards ??

      I bet not a whole lot. Only a select few who can master the art of speculating by buying low and selling high.

      What do you guys think ??
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Iam just really curious to how many businessmen have made a long term, decent 'living' buying and selling collectibles like baseball cards ??

        I bet not a whole lot. Only a select few who can master the art of speculating by buying low and selling high.

        What do you guys think ??
        Right after Covid our local collectibles closed shop, after 30 years in business. I featured him in an old report I wrote about buying and selling.

        He had connections to shops like his all over N. America, and often went to conventions.

        For a couple of decades, we had 3 comic book, card stores in town, and now only one remains, but he too has been in his location for a long time. He also attends conventions.

        Now these were actual businesses, but I'm going to say, that probably 70% of all the millionaire businessmen I've worked with were (are) collectors. My mentor Harvey Brody has pocket watches...and he knows most all the collectors/dealers in that field.

        A local realtor has ancient golf clubs, and balls signed by some of the greats, back into the 30's.

        It is an area, that unless one is actively involved in, doesn't think much about. Now, I know your question is about making a living, but I have to assume that all these millionaires and now Billionaires who collect, buy from someone. Many pawn shop owners have expertise too, and if they don't, they can usually find an expert on just about any collectible out there.

        So maybe a whole lot don't make a decent living, but there are bunches, stacks, and boat loads of guys who do. We have a coin, gem, gold and silver show a couple of times a year in town, and thousands attend, and in talking to many of the vendors, whom I will guess are above the decent level, have brick and mortar locations too.

        Paul Burdick, owner of Spellbinders (comics and cards) went to many a trade show to meet with, at that time, hundreds if not thousands of other dealers.
        GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          Right after Covid our local collectibles closed shop, after 30 years in business. I featured him in an old report I wrote about buying and selling.

          He had connections to shops like his all over N. America, and often went to conventions.

          For a couple of decades, we had 3 comic book, card stores in town, and now only one remains, but he too has been in his location for a long time. He also attends conventions.

          Now these were actual businesses, but I'm going to say, that probably 70% of all the millionaire businessmen I've worked with were (are) collectors. My mentor Harvey Brody has pocket watches...and he knows most all the collectors/dealers in that field.

          A local realtor has ancient golf clubs, and balls signed by some of the greats, back into the 30's.

          It is an area, that unless one is actively involved in, doesn't think much about. Now, I know your question is about making a living, but I have to assume that all these millionaires and now Billionaires who collect, buy from someone. Many pawn shop owners have expertise too, and if they don't, they can usually find an expert on just about any collectible out there.

          So maybe a whole lot don't make a decent living, but there are bunches, stacks, and boat loads of guys who do. We have a coin, gem, gold and silver show a couple of times a year in town, and thousands attend, and in talking to many of the vendors, whom I will guess are above the decent level, have brick and mortar locations too.

          Paul Burdick, owner of Spellbinders (comics and cards) went to many a trade show to meet with, at that time, hundreds if not thousands of other dealers.
          GordonJ
          Didn't really think about the brick and mortar collectibles with a storefront. Good point
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Iam just really curious to how many businessmen have made a long term, decent 'living' buying and selling collectibles like baseball cards ??

        I bet not a whole lot. Only a select few who can master the art of speculating by buying low and selling high.

        What do you guys think ??

        In fashion there deff are. Its a whole subculture. Basically savidge4's ebay thread for fashionistas.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Iam just really curious to how many businessmen have made a long term, decent 'living' buying and selling collectibles like baseball cards ??

        I bet not a whole lot. Only a select few who can master the art of speculating by buying low and selling high.

        What do you guys think ??
        There is a far different between buying something new now and hoping it will greatly increase in value over the next few decades.

        And having another set of skills where you see someone willing to sell something for 50 dollars now when you have list of potential buyer willing to pay far more.

        Disney had a very long term successful model using their movies to market a wide range of collectibles. That is why they bought star war and marvel.

        So Disney
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          There is a far different between buying something new now and hoping it will greatly increase in value over the next few decades.
          And having another set of skills where you see someone willing to sell something for 50 dollars now when you have list of potential buyer willing to pay far more.
          Disney had a very long term successful model using their movies to market a wide range of collectibles. That is why they bought star war and marvel.
          So Disney
          I don't want to hijack Robert's OP, about collecting Cards, so if he doesn't want the thread to go off track, and because it's such a sore spot in my life...(not really, I did OK the other way)...he can say so.

          30 years ago I wrote my first buy/sell report, similar to work by J.F. (Jim) Straw and Dean F.V. DuVall, both had sold thousands of little books which had the buy/sell strategies. I got started in 1969 when a group of G.I.'s were shipping out of Hawaii headed toward Vietnam.

          They were in line at a Pawn shop, trying to get some dough for their last weekend before they left. I was able to buy several cameras from them, which I easily sold to shipmates and other folk almost overnight. That got me started with buying and selling.

          That first edition of my report was before eBay existed, before Craigslist, before Facebook marketplace, or before the Internet became a marketplace. Back then we had Traders. like AutoTrader, and Penny Saver and Thrifty Nickle...bulletin boards, classified ads in local newspapers.

          In this 1994 report I wrote about STORAGE VS. CIRCULATION, which is what we have here.

          In stocks, there are buy and hold stocks, long term investments for GROWTH, like the philosophy of Warren Buffet. He's done pretty well.

          So we have two ideas, buy and hold (what I call storage), and BUY AND FLIP, which is in my opinion, the very fastest way to put cash in your pocket there is.

          The problem with most flippers, they make mistakes because of their "it is worth more than that" attitude, my brother was one of these guys.

          The other problem is that when people come into money, and have more than they ever had in the past, they SPEND it, and don't put it to work. One doesn't have to leave the forum to find examples of Warriors working hard to get to 100,000 dollars a year, and shortly thereafter crashing and burning (maybe due to algorithm changes) and not even getting 5 figures.

          But when flying high, making money, there are new cars, house redecorations, new toys, vacations...all because "we worked hard and deserve it". And that is fine. Until they are once again broke.

          If one keeps his investment and profits in CIRCULATION, they will continue to grow and learn how to make their money do the work of making money.

          Although probably every kid in my neighborhood had a future fortune of comic books, cards, even toys...no one (except those collectors) gave it a thought.

          If one wants to make money TODAY, the now way is flip things, not hold them. However, if you can afford to buy and hold, then you need to be educated on the things you are holding onto. I know many a Beanie Baby collector, who ended up with nothing. It was the craze and market that actually kicked off the eBay and other markets.

          Buy and hold is valuable, IF, in the future there is a buyer.

          Nothing wrong with collecting as a hobby...but as an investment, I think coins, stamps, gold, silver, jewelry hold up pretty well whereas paper and ink, including cards and ephemera...have to be delicately handed and kept safe.

          Give me a used camera from a desperate seller, and I'll show you cash later that day.

          Thanks Robert, I hope you do well in the future.

          GordonJ

          P.S. A less speculative form of storage, a good kind, is Real Estate, land and even businesses. Those may be worth collecting.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            .

            Nothing wrong with collecting as a hobby...but as an investment, I think coins, stamps, gold, silver, jewelry hold up pretty well whereas paper and ink, including cards and ephemera...have to be delicately handed and kept safe.

            Give me a used camera from a desperate seller, and I'll show you cash later that day.

            Thanks Robert, I hope you do well in the future.

            GordonJ

            P.S. A less speculative form of storage, a good kind, is Real Estate, land and even businesses. Those may be worth collecting.
            Valid point, Gordon. That's one reason I have committed myself to ONLY investing in Wembanyama rookie cards that are Gem Mint condition and encapsulated in air tight card sleeve top holders. They are literally immune from any damage outside of taking a hammer and bashing the top loader in two.

            In about 15 years when Iam ready to sale they will be still in gem mint condition and the grading mark of a perfect 10 from the PSA insignia on the top holder will be visible for potential buyers to see for authenticity purposes.

            I'm up to 15 various rookie cards of Wemby that I have purchased the last 6 weeks from Ebay ( All Grade 10 ) with an average price of $150 per card.
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Valid point, Gordon. That's one reason I have committed myself to ONLY investing in Wembanyama rookie cards that are Gem Mint condition and encapsulated in air tight card sleeve top holders. They are literally immune from any damage outside of taking a hammer and bashing the top loader in two.

              In about 15 years when Iam ready to sale they will be still in gem mint condition and the grading mark of a perfect 10 from the PSA insignia on the top holder will be visible for potential buyers to see for authenticity purposes.
              Odahh raised the question of nostalgia, and MY toys, cards, comics are now selling for a lot of money. One, maybe, way to position oneself (as you are doing) is not only take today's future superstar, barring injury or criminal activity of course...and collect it, as you are with wemby's card...if he continues as current performance indicates...future hall of famer...

              I was a child of the 50's, and had cards, comics that went back to the beginning...I wonder what today's brats (x, millennials, etc) will be nostalgic about in the coming years? Hanna Montana? Will her lunchboxes sell for as much as my Davy Crocket hat or my Roy Rogers lunch pail?

              I think the group going over 40 this year and for the next few, are going to have a high demand on those things, just before cell phones, right before Internet...mostly TV and Pop music, and of course Barbie, does she ever get old?

              Thinking ahead, and taking the steps to preserve the present in some form of a time capsule (protection) gives opportunity to those that have the vision.

              Even my Mantle cards, in mint condition, wouldn't be worth much, cause, I did draw Hitler moustaches on that yankee scum...which brings up the point of maybe not being a FANatic, if you are going to collect things for the future. Do you think they will discover time travel in the next few years?

              Cause I know a time and place where millions are lurking...call me Biff.

              GordonJ
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                Odahh raised the question of nostalgia, and MY toys, cards, comics are now selling for a lot of money. One, maybe, way to position oneself (as you are doing) is not only take today's future superstar, barring injury or criminal activity of course...and collect it, as you are with wemby's card...if he continues as current performance indicates...future hall of famer...

                I was a child of the 50's, and had cards, comics that went back to the beginning...I wonder what today's brats (x, millennials, etc) will be nostalgic about in the coming years? Hanna Montana? Will her lunchboxes sell for as much as my Davy Crocket hat or my Roy Rogers lunch pail?

                I think the group going over 40 this year and for the next few, are going to have a high demand on those things, just before cell phones, right before Internet...mostly TV and Pop music, and of course Barbie, does she ever get old?

                Thinking ahead, and taking the steps to preserve the present in some form of a time capsule (protection) gives opportunity to those that have the vision.

                Even my Mantle cards, in mint condition, wouldn't be worth much, cause, I did draw Hitler moustaches on that yankee scum...which brings up the point of maybe not being a FANatic, if you are going to collect things for the future. Do you think they will discover time travel in the next few years?

                Cause I know a time and place where millions are lurking...call me Biff.

                GordonJ
                I have to confess Gordon, being a rabid San Antoino Spurs fan that last 18 years ( and living in SA the last 13 years) does not hurt the passion in collecting these Wemby cards.
                A few minutes ago I just spread them out on my bed and took pics of my proud
                collection

                But who knows Gordon in 15 years if my two daughters have sons I just may keep these Cards in the family and pass them down to them. Thats definitely an option.
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              • Profile picture of the author max5ty
                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


                Cause I know a time and place where millions are lurking...call me Biff.

                GordonJ
                I have come to the conclusion after much research that we cannot predict the future...

                because to make a long story short, it hasn't happened yet.

                Something that hasn't happened can't be predicted. There are too many variables that happen.

                Anyway, I think collecting cards could be a good investment. I've seen some of your previous posts and I can tell you know a lot about sports.

                In my office, I have the Firestick on most of the time and think I have heard every episode of Storage Wars, Pawn Shop, and American Pickers...

                it's always interesting to see what some of the stuff is worth.

                Yes, as you can tell, I get a lot of work accomplished...
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Evry generational cycle is mostly 20 yrs.

    An' in alla these rollin' incarnations, you gaht 2 kindsa expoits.

    First, the DECLUTTAH SQUAD.

    Cast off the crap an' venture forth with yr genitals unconfined by any kinda PANT.

    Seckind, you gaht HOMESY HOARDAHS.

    Hangin' on to whatevah bcs it makes 'em feel good.

    This means:

    1) The Decluttah people throwin' out stuff of intrinsic valyoo 20 years down the line.

    2) When hoardahs die, their famlies don't necessarily see what they inheritin'.

    Here is the wisdom of Mom an' Dad, granma an' grampahula -- the market for generationally significant passages of time.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    It depends on what someone considered investment versus speculation. Unlike collectibles. Real estate and business depending on someone's skill set can provide a decent source of income while the asset value increases.

    Getting back to collectibles though it's a great way to shut people up when they question the time effort and expenses a collector is willing to invest. Even if it's really just a hobby they really don't intend to make money from. When they can point out to others the potential increase in value. And all other responsibilities are taking care of.

    As for the future of collectibles. The question I have is will the smaller generations under 50 years old have the same nostalgic streak to recapture their youth that drives the older and more wealthy generation's.

    What happens when these collections start to get liquidated after the collector passes on. Or these " investments start to lose value and people not as attached start to liquidate and take profits.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    In the last two months I brought out my baseball card collection from a young boy. In gem mint condition( yes you have to send them off to get graded) I have a few that sold for at auction including EBay for $50k + per card .

    So this got me excited and now iam investing in Victor Wembanyama Rookie Cards. In 10 to 15 years from now I predict my $2k worth of investing in his cards ( when he becomes a household name like Jordan and Lebron) these investements of cards will balloon well over $100k or more.

    I bought only gem mint wembanyama on eBay. Iam really excited to what Wembanyama has in store for the NBA in the next couple of decades.
    I know nothing about baseball cards.

    But if I were going to invest serious money in cards, I would FIRST;
    Spend the next 6 months studying various card collecting boards......subscribe to at least one good card collectors magazine. And go to a couple card collecting shows. And I would spend some time every day on E-Bay (or wherever cards are actually bought) and see what cards sell fast, and what they sell for.

    In fact, that kind of advice is what I would give anyone investing in anything except a no load index fund.
    Signature
    One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

    What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Soozee Quivry whacks one in for The Galaxy.

    An' they win the League.

    40 yeahs latah, a reportah asks her 'bout her COLOSSALLY HISTORIC soccah career.

    "So that victory completely put me on a path to where I am now. All the management, the sponsorship deals, the cool schemes we got now for girls hungry for soccer and the freedom to express themselves and --"

    "But, Soozee -- ain't you so pissed you sold the *heart motif* panties you wore on that momentous day for just $15,000?"

    "It is a bitch, for sure."
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    Iam just really curious to how many businessmen have made a long term, decent 'living' buying and selling collectibles like baseball cards ??
    Without any information, I doubt very few and think the 80-20 rule on steroids would apply in this instance. As mentioned in a post above about the brick and mortar stores. They seem to have sprung up and died off in my area when cards were more popular. A lot also went into more of the autograph helmets, bats, and baseballs. The biggest thing that hurt the Baseball Cards was the challenge to Topps. Fleer and Donruss sprang up out of nowhere and then the market was flooded with cards.

    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

    As for the future of collectibles. The question I have is will the smaller generations under 50 years old have the same nostalgic streak to recapture their youth that drives the older and more wealthy generation's.

    What happens when these collections start to get liquidated after the collector passes on. Or these " investments start to lose value and people not as attached start to liquidate and take profits.
    I'm going to agree mostly with Oddah. On Reddit there was a good thread about how many hated their parent's collectibles. When they inherited things like dolls, beanie babies, etc. most just wanted to throw them out. Some of them were saying they had no interest in collecting anything.

    Here is a good example when I was young my father had a Model A and we used to go to the car shows. where the majority were pre-war vehicles. Now 40-50 plus years later the car shows are split into 2 groups. The baby boomers with the late 60's & 70's Muscle cars. Then the groups showing up now with the latest Camaro, Charger, Corvettes or the other group into Import Tuners. How many of these younger ones are going to restore a Honda Civic in 25-30 years?
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      This has been one of the most enjoyable Threads for me in a long time. Thanks to all those who contributed
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Dwolf

    The majority of people under 50 will probably never be able to own homes . No place to store collections.

    Sports memorabilia and a few other things will probably continue to be investment that go up in value.

    But industrial revolution number 4 will most likely make a number of things far more affordable to people. But that is to off topic for the forum as a whole.

    On the other hand I will still say if someone enjoys collecting a type of thing the appreciation or prospect of making a big payoff down the road is just a side benefit.

    As an investment that requires special knowledge to understand value . If you are going to put that time in and enjoy doing it. Avoiding FO Mo.fear of missing out.
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