Your opinions would be appreciated on this copy.

16 years ago

Perhaps a more credible option to test than a check. There used to be a variety of techniques before the net came along, some of which involve testimonials from third parties.

You can barely tell it is a check, let alone what's on it. Seems like a number of alternatives would be better use of the space.

An interesting angle would be a letter from someone at Green Tree, who would have a vested interest in dragging out your secrets. Can it and clone it.

Thanks
1 reply

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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by John_S

Perhaps a more credible option to test than a check. There used to be a variety of techniques before the net came along, some of which involve testimonials from third parties.

You can barely tell it is a check, let alone what's on it. Seems like a number of alternatives would be better use of the space.

An interesting angle would be a letter from someone at Green Tree, who would have a vested interest in dragging out your secrets. Can it and clone it.

Thanks John for taking the time to look, a few questions for you.

Yes, this check is fuzzed, the one or several, IF used, won't be. What would the alternatives for the space be?
Testimonials for a NEW book? How are they gotten? Free review copies?

The owner of Green Tree makes his statement, do you mean the whole letter should be from the owner of Green Tree? And I have no idea what "can it and clone it" measns, could you elaborate?

gjabiz

Thanks

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 16 years ago

Raymond, I think it excellent. I read it all the way through. Really like the layout. I think I would change a couple of things - make it more positive. Change "could" into "can" for instance. And change the head from

If you love to write, why not get rich doing it?

to

If you love to write, here's how to make some really good money off it.

Or something like that. Not "get rich" - smacks of scam. You could always follow up with "Really good money" in the copy following.

And where's the buy button? Or is this just a rough draft? And there's at least two typos. "36 thousdand" and "financially free" should be "financially-free" shouldn't it?

But really - terrific job.

Thanks
1 reply

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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Raymond, I think it excellent. I read it all the way through. Really like the layout. I think I would change a couple of things - make it more positive. Change "could" into "can" for instance. And change the head from

If you love to write, why not get rich doing it?

to

If you love to write, here's how to make some really good money off it.

Or something like that. Not "get rich" - smacks of scam. You could always follow up with "Really good money" in the copy following.

And where's the buy button? Or is this just a rough draft? And there's at least two typos. "36 thousdand" and "financially free" should be "financially-free" shouldn't it?

But really - terrific job.

Thanks metronicity,

I'm NOT Raymond, I had some input on the ad, but there are several copies of the ad due to be tested, mostly for keywords. Green Tree Press prefers the first person "story" type of ad, and with 35 years of success and spending up to a quarter of a million dollars per space ad, they have a pretty good idea of what the story should be like.

But, they are new to Internet, and maybe their first person approach won't work in this market, they don't know.

You are probably right about the "get rich" angle, and a lower tone, writer success approach would work. I'm sure they will test various ads and elements within the ad.

And YES, it is one of several ROUGH DRAFTS, probably won't go live until after copious amounts of testing have been done. They are working on a keyword rich Google ads strategy.

Thanks for your input, and for taking your time to evaluate this. I'll make sure Green Tree Press sees and reads all of the comments here.

gjabiz

Thanks

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Alexa Smith

Banned 16 years ago

[DELETED]

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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

For me, it's the best copy I've seen here with an "opinions requested" subject-line in the year or so that I've been a member of this fine forum.

Yes, there are a few typos and so on, there's a couple of sentences inadvertently repeated that need editing and so on, but it's a draft, clearly.

I do agree that "get rich" can be an unfortunate choice of wording, because of the "get rich quick" connotation. Apart from that and tiny amendments on a similar scale, which are mostly a matter of personal preference anyway, I have nothing to suggest, here. I'll go further than that, in fact: in my opinion you should take any really significant criticism/suggestions with a pinch of salt, try to change as little as possible (apart from the minor tidying up we all see it needs), and start using this copy. It will sell.

Alexa,

This is ONE of several ads that Green Tree Press has in rough draft form for this product. They have a full page space ad, maybe to run in Writer's Digest or similar publication.

They have a short and sweet version of an ad for this product.

They have a totally different ad not featuring the writer.

This particular ad was seen as the first TEST ad, with, of course, the necessary cleaning of the ad, the typos, fuzzy pics, etc.

When you work with an establsihed company like Green Tree Press, who has a massive "swipe" file of success, you have to try to walk in their shoes. They consider this ad to be in the HYPEY category, and I somewhat agree.

I think Raymond has a great story and it should come more from his mouth, with the story aimed at whatever specific market they are shooting for. This ad, more toward the WRITER wannabe, the person who is considering spending 500 or more dollars on a copywriting course, a travel writing course, a get published quick course...a "starving artist" type of writer, like Raymond was...until he learned how to write books that people wanted to buy.

Thanks for taking your time to comment, this is one of several TEST ads and when and IF they choose one or have a winner, I'll be sure to share that.

gjabiz

Thanks

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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Jutras

Not bad...but the testimonial should be given more prominence at the top of the letter, and maybe cut back on the really long autobiography at the beginning...more "you" and less "I" and "me".

It is appreciated.

gjabiz

Thanks

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John_S

16 years ago

What would the alternatives for the space be?
Testimonials for a NEW book? How are they gotten? Free review copies?

This is answered in a PM I will send. You'll understand why when you read it.

And I have no idea what "can it and clone it" measns, could you elaborate?

Drat. I was hoping to get away with shorthand.

First, yes, the owner or VP of Marketing are good candidates. My angle would be to work out the "reason why," if this is so valuable, you are revealing it. You don't have the incentive, the publisher does.

It's fodder for the B.S. detector readers apply to offers nowadays.

Can it and clone it. This means a host of things. Accurately capture what really makes you successful. (can it) Often successful people start believing their own PR and misattribute their success not to timing, a plan, an important and influential first contact. They attribute their success to their own personal greatness.

You can see this by the disturbing number of failure trying to replicate (or clone) a past success. These guys don't need to find success, develop a successful plan, or test their assumptions as (in their view) they are successful.

This presents a problem when trying to distill a personal success into a success system for others to use. We all know teachers who knew their subject cold, but could not teach to save their lives.

In a sense, it's not your personal success you're selling, it's the ability to teach others to emulate that success.

That's why you want to do things like have testimonials from people who've succeeded with the course. And these people would not just be given trial copies. You would then explain (in copy) you've redesigned the product around these students: Problems, Learning Ability, Background, whatever.

Your success is mildly interesting. Your ability to contribute to my success is intensely interesting. Unfortunately, even moderate experience informs us these are two different things.

Thanks

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Loren Woirhaye

16 years ago

I didn't read it in depth, but this letter leaves me cold. It
seems meandering, self-congratulatory, replete with
the writer's smugness over his own good fortune.

I'm familiar with Green Tree Press and have looked at ads
from the company before, so if this sort of formula
has worked for the publisher in the past that may be
worth more than my personal opinion.

I also don't much like Tom Antion's letter for his
public speaking course, but apparently it's done well
for him. It starts in a similar vein with (what to me is)
an irrelevant, meandering ode to his own greatness.

I'm not saying some people won't love this style of
writing and buy the product. I probably wouldn't though.

Thanks
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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

I didn't read it in depth, but this letter leaves me cold. It
seems meandering, self-congratulatory, replete with
the writer's smugness over his own good fortune.

I'm familiar with Green Tree Press and have looked at ads
from the company before, so if this sort of formula
has worked for the publisher in the past that may be
worth more than my personal opinion.

I also don't much like Tom Antion's letter for his
public speaking course, but apparently it's done well
for him. It starts in a similar vein with (what to me is)
an irrelevant, meandering ode to his own greatness.

I'm not saying some people won't love this style of
writing and buy the product. I probably wouldn't though.

Thanks,

I'll pass your comments along to the powers that be at Green Tree. Appreciate you taking the time to look.

gjabiz

Thanks

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colmodwyer

16 years ago

There's a great ad I've seen a few times in a few magazines (including reader's digest) with the headline...

We're looking for people to write children's books"

Could try something like that, written from the publisher's point of view. It's an arresting headline for sure.

As for the current letter, I'm with Loren.

It's a little flat.

I feel it jumps from one thing to another without any clear tradition or proper benefit development before doing so.

If that makes any sense?

Of course that's just what I got from it, and am not the target market.

That said, I reckon the target market wants to be the next Stephen King or [another famous other]... So I think you need to push that hot button more.

It's needs to be clear that this is just a means to an end, and will allow you to fulfill your REAL dream easier and faster.

The appeal is rich AND famous.

Colm

Thanks
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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by colmodwyer

There's a great ad I've seen a few times in a few magazines (including reader's digest) with the headline...

We're looking for people to write children's books"

Could try something like that, written from the publisher's point of view. It's an arresting headline for sure.

As for the current letter, I'm with Loren.

It's a little flat.

I feel it jumps from one thing to another without any clear tradition or proper benefit development before doing so.

If that makes any sense?

Of course that's just what I got from it, and am not the target market.

That said, I reckon the target market wants to be the next Stephen King or [another famous other]... So I think you need to push that hot button more.

It's needs to be clear that this is just a means to an end, and will allow you to fulfill your REAL dream easier and faster.

The appeal is rich AND famous.

Colm

Thanks Colm,

Some very good points. I'll pass them along. I like the
"We're looking for people" approach, I'm going to suggest testing something along that route, that is a long running ad.

I appreciate your time and your observations.

gjabiz

Thanks

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Lance K

16 years ago

Gordon,

I think the book will sell well. There is a large target audience for it and the author & publisher give it credibility.

There is one thing I'd suggest testing in the copy. Your prospects may not believe that they can achieve the $36,000 monthly royalty level. So you could add some copy that explains how it could change their life if they were only 10% as successful as Raymond.

Thanks
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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Gordon,

I think the book will sell well. There is a large target audience for it and the author & publisher give it credibility.

There is one thing I'd suggest testing in the copy. Your prospects may not believe that they can achieve the $36,000 monthly royalty level. So you could add some copy that explains how it could change their life if they were only 10% as successful as Raymond.

Thanks Lance,

Perhaps they can get a "sworn statement" from the accountant or banker, someone suggested this might work instead of the check.

Raymond is a reluctant author, that is, he's not comfortable being featured in the ad and he has veto power, so your comments are helpful and he too, would like a less "hypey" ad and a more personal approach.

Thanks for taking the time to read it.

gjabiz

Thanks
1 reply

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Lance K

16 years ago

Originally Posted by gjabiz

Thanks Lance,

Perhaps they can get a "sworn statement" from the accountant or banker, someone suggested this might work instead of the check.

Raymond is a reluctant author, that is, he's not comfortable being featured in the ad and he has veto power, so your comments are helpful and he too, would like a less "hypey" ad and a more personal approach.

Thanks for taking the time to read it.

gjabiz

You're welcome.

To clarify, I didn't mean that people wouldn't believe the $36,000 per month royalties. But rather that they may not believe that they themselves are capable of getting to those levels.

Thanks
1 reply

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MikeHumphreys

16 years ago

Hey Gordon,

How are you?

Like a few others have said, this is one of the better pieces I've looked at lately to critique. I only have a few minutes to do, so I'll focus on the above the fold part to offer advice.

1. I don't care for the photo of the author. With the shades, it doesn't make him look warm or friendly. It doesn't invite the reader in and make them want to engage by reading the copy.

2. I'd use a different pre-head to set the stage for your opening headline. Something like:

Attention Aspiring or Struggling Authors Seeking a Successful, Profit-Filled Career...

That's off the top of my head, so I'm sure with some headline brainstorming you could come up with something even stronger in the same theme/angle.

3. The opening salutation gets lost in the copy of the 'From' and 'Where' section. I'd either move those to the right hand side to get the salutation some breathing room... bold the salutation... or do both. Again, if I were working on this like a paid project instead of a free crit, I'd take the time to mess with the different layout options to see which one is easier to read.

4. Maybe it's because I'm a "city kid" but I don't get the significance of the 'back 40'. Owning 65 acres of land... that I understand. That sounds impressive. So would saying something like owning your house/custom built cabin/mansion on 65 acres of land where the nearest neighbor is 2 miles away sounds even better... even dreamy for the authors who like their peace and quiet. But the back 40... doesn't do anything for me and you're using up valuable real estate early to have to explain it to us "city kids".

5. Shorter paragraphs, especially around the royalty check photo. That will make it easier for skimmers to read. Then use more sub-heads to catch their attention on key points.

Hope that helps,

Mike

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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

Hey Gordon,

How are you?

Like a few others have said, this is one of the better pieces I've looked at lately to critique. I only have a few minutes to do, so I'll focus on the above the fold part to offer advice.

1. I don't care for the photo of the author. With the shades, it doesn't make him look warm or friendly. It doesn't invite the reader in and make them want to engage by reading the copy.

2. I'd use a different pre-head to set the stage for your opening headline. Something like:

Attention Aspiring or Struggling Authors Seeking a Successful, Profit-Filled Career...

That's off the top of my head, so I'm sure with some headline brainstorming you could come up with something even stronger in the same theme/angle.

3. The opening salutation gets lost in the copy of the 'From' and 'Where' section. I'd either move those to the right hand side to get the salutation some breathing room... bold the salutation... or do both. Again, if I were working on this like a paid project instead of a free crit, I'd take the time to mess with the different layout options to see which one is easier to read.

4. Maybe it's because I'm a "city kid" but I don't get the significance of the 'back 40'. Owning 65 acres of land... that I understand. That sounds impressive. So would saying something like owning your house/custom built cabin/mansion on 65 acres of land where the nearest neighbor is 2 miles away sounds even better... even dreamy for the authors who like their peace and quiet. But the back 40... doesn't do anything for me and you're using up valuable real estate early to have to explain it to us "city kids".

5. Shorter paragraphs, especially around the royalty check photo. That will make it easier for skimmers to read. Then use more sub-heads to catch their attention on key points.

Hope that helps,

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for looking. I think there are some pretty good criticisms of this copy, it has helped, and hopefully it will help shape both the product, if it gets released, and also give GTP a better grasp of the selling points and presentation of the work.

I'm coming to the end of my "observation" period, next week I'll leave "Dreary Erie" and head to West Palm Beach. l prefer a 4 square foot blanket of sand to a 65 acre paradise in the country, I guess we each see Utopia a little differently.

It is interesting to see this 35 year old company begin the process of reinventing itself and hoepfully, with ALL of your good comments, they will take it to heart and work on their Internet marketing strategy as hard as they do the off line full page space ad strategy.

THANKS again Mike (and everyone), it has been very helpful.

gjabiz

Thanks

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AnneE

16 years ago

First a couple more typos:

You will win if we publsih your book, I will win as the publisher and our million plus readers will win because we'll have given them another qualtiy book to read.

considering this is part of the quote from the publisher, it does not leave a good impression.

I think I'm pretty close to your target audience. I would be tempted to buy the book, but would probably not for the following reasons:

The price feels high to me compared to writing books that I can buy on Amazon or at my local bookstore. $16 seemed like a lot more to pay for a hardcopy and shipping when you said it was pretty short. Or maybe it is just the overall price -- if I want a hardcopy, I'm paying more than $40 for a book on a topic that others have covered. I have to be convinced that you have information they don't. That would require testimonials, people who read a pre-publication copy. OR... even a table of contents or bulleted list of topics the book will cover that make me feel I MUST have it.

I'm curious too, does Green Tree Press offer any advance? Because I'd be really tempted to buy, if I thought I could buy a book that had a simple formula for me to write a book proposal and sell it to a publisher for even a small advance.

Mostly though I'd want more evidence either by getting a sample of what's in the book and/or hearing from someone who will not be making money with every sale. Right now the only people telling me the book is any good are people who make money on each sale.

I believe that Raymond has struck gold, but that doesn't mean his story will lead me to gold.

Also, pet peeve... but other writers might have the same thought:

It starts: An Open Letter from a Successful Author

If this is an Open Letter, what then is a closed letter?

Sloppy language bothers me from a successful writer.

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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by AnneE

First a couple more typos:

You will win if we publsih your book, I will win as the publisher and our million plus readers will win because we'll have given them another qualtiy book to read.

considering this is part of the quote from the publisher, it does not leave a good impression.

I think I'm pretty close to your target audience. I would be tempted to buy the book, but would probably not for the following reasons:

The price feels high to me compared to writing books that I can buy on Amazon or at my local bookstore. $16 seemed like a lot more to pay for a hardcopy and shipping when you said it was pretty short. Or maybe it is just the overall price -- if I want a hardcopy, I'm paying more than $40 for a book on a topic that others have covered. I have to be convinced that you have information they don't. That would require testimonials, people who read a pre-publication copy. OR... even a table of contents or bulleted list of topics the book will cover that make me feel I MUST have it.

I'm curious too, does Green Tree Press offer any advance? Because I'd be really tempted to buy, if I thought I could buy a book that had a simple formula for me to write a book proposal and sell it to a publisher for even a small advance.

Mostly though I'd want more evidence either by getting a sample of what's in the book and/or hearing from someone who will not be making money with every sale. Right now the only people telling me the book is any good are people who make money on each sale.

I believe that Raymond has struck gold, but that doesn't mean his story will lead me to gold.

Also, pet peeve... but other writers might have the same thought:

It starts: An Open Letter from a Successful Author

If this is an Open Letter, what then is a closed letter?

Sloppy language bothers me from a successful writer.

AnneE,

You've given some good comments, I'm going to suggest the parties involved read all these comments and IF they are going to bring out this book, they work on the copy. All the versions.

Thanks for taking time to give your views.

gjabiz

Thanks

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Your opinions would be appreciated on this copy.

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