Copywriting for a Type A client

In what way is that a Type A client? He sounds to me like the very opposite.

Marcia Yudkin

What do you mean by "messaging framework"? Do you mean a series of emails?

Today's email recipients prefer to spend one minute or less reading an email, newsletter, etc. and your client may know this is a form of "conversion" and that is why s/he wants "copy" from a copywriter service.

Your client has a specific need for your service (any service) that converts. Either you provide a service that converts or s/he will find a service that can.

You are overthinking it. Simply give the customer what s/he wants or at the very least two different versions of A and B and let the customer decide. Just be careful, do not insist.

Keep us informed please.

From Wikipedia:

Someone who views copywriting as like an HVAC system that can stay in place for 20 years is a Type B personality, not Type A.

Sorry to harp on this, but you shouldn't twist concepts to mean something that you arbitrarily have in your head.

Marcia Yudkin

I agree with Jeffery that you may be over-thinking - perhaps more over-analyzing than necessary. It doesn't matter what the client's personality type is - and it is not an insult to you that he is not interested in the details.

The client HIRED a manager to handle the project. Could it be the client has no interest in a 60 minute phone call or the detailed minutiae of the project? A client does not hire a manager for a project unless he's ready to 'sign off' on it.

Why not ASK the client to what extent he wants to be involved personally - and how much of the training/details/etc should be done directly with the manager instead of the client?

Way too much verbiage gowin' on here imho.

Question I wanna ask is ... how 'nuts-and-bolts' is your typical client walkthrough?

Remembah: screwin' stuff is kinda myootyool.

So ... you got Spidey sense SEEMIN' gowin' on, 'longside a tested struckchah means you don't gotta ask no questions.

I would wanna ask the client 'bout summa this -- preferably without comin' ovah all stoopid.

They got one half of the ansahs, aftah all.

So ... move your supposition closah to their raison d'etre.

(If'n that ain't the basis for no perfect pickup line, I don't know what is.)

Interestingly said my dear Princess.

It's taken me 3 years to decode your secret alphabet. And I'm starting to think we have a lot of thoughts in common. We should work together sometime.

But today is not about you and me. Today is about Mr. Floyd...

Not sure exactly what you mean by messaging framework, Stephen.

Are you talking about preparing a proposal for a full campaign?

Or are you just talking about explaining to this guy how a single piece of copy works?

Or do you mean something else?

This might not be what you want to hear. And I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, especially since I don't know anything about your client, your relationship with him, or what you're working on (refer to my question above).

But picking up where Princess left off, it sounds like the mistake was made during the first interview you had with this guy. And expectations on both sides were not clearly identified.

You expected a 60 minute phone call. He expects a 1 page summary. And now you're both left frustrated because of unspoken expectations.

I can't speak for how anyone else runs their business, some low end copywriters like to just throw the copy at the client and then move on to the next customer, but when I work with a client it's a partnership.

We're working together towards a common goal (their goal) and two way communication is always important.

And if they can't (or won't) take the time to sit down with me and talk about their marketing campaign, then we don't need a crystal ball to tell us frustration will probably be big part of this job.

I might still accept the project (if the price is right) but the price just doubled because now I know I have two jobs...

One job is writing a campaign that gets results, and the second job is being a therapist to someone who will likely complain about all their unspoken expectations not being met.

This question tells me you're still new to this game. And that's OK, we all need to start somewhere. But here's the thing...

Unless you're working on a quick, short form ad... You need to tell him every campaign requires testing, measuring and adjusting.

Rarely do we hit a homerun on the first swing at bat. And even if we get lucky, it can still probably be better.

And eventually even the best sales copy gets stale and needs to be updated or completely redone.

Times change... situations change... markets change...

Marketing campaigns and sales copy need to change with the times, situations, and markets.

On a rare occasion a sales piece will last for many years, but these days that's more rare than it's ever been before.

Either way, as an expert it's your obligation to explain to your client there is no "set-it and forget-it" in this game.

It's all about testing, measuring, and making adjustments. Until the results are acceptable enough to move on to the next thing. (or until we decide it's no longer worth the effort)

Based solely on what you've written here, the best advice I can give you right now is to explain that he needs to give you what you need (including two way communication), so you can give him the results he wants.

If you don't see that as an option, then I suppose you can just throw something at him and cross your fingers?

If nothing else, this client could be a good learning experience for you. And you'll be able to ask better questions and set proper expectations when you first engage with the next one?


Anyway, whatever you decide to do I wish you the best of success in dealing with this client.

All the best,
- Steve

Seems I need to clarify "messaging framework." It's basically a master playbook that informs the way emails, web copy, social posts, print ads and other outreach methods should be crafted. It's meant to be modified and updated by the client as required by the business' needs, so that's why I'm concerned about a client who has a plug-and-play expectation.

Kay King and SARubin, you are correct. I should be more proactive in communicating with the client and depend on the manager for what he was hired to do. Indeed I am new at this, so I'm nervous about doing what I believe to be quality work only to have such efforts undermined by a client with very different expectations. It's better to clarify those expectations before delivering the final product.

I may be off base but seems to me 'categorizing the client' is only useful if YOU have developed approaches to use with the various quadrants. Does that make sense?

The quadrant theory is often about how to hire the right people - and how to ask the questions to decide which 'quadrant' they fit into.

Finding out what the client's expectations are is more important than fitting him into a 'marketing category'. If his expectations are over the top tell him so. In my experience the most demanding clients often end up being the best clients to work for - they know what they want.

Any potential for ongoing work of updating/modifying monthly or quarterly yourself...for a fee?

Update: He liked it. I crafted a marketing strategy and full copy for four websites promoting different properties he owns in the hospitality industry and his only feedback was to clarify two benefits on one property. In taciturn businessman terms, that's a rousing success. So I guess I got worked up over nothing.

Thanks for all your feedback.

A quick point - (btw glad the client liked the copy).

Clients often think, they may even insist - we should be writing for them all keyed to their personality.

Some are prone to try and superimpose this on every aspect of their business including their customers - whether they like it or not.

But we are not writing specifically for the client.

We are writing for their esteemed audience - the good people who pay the client.


Steve


P.S. The all important "notes" explaining the copy ( Why this, Why that, Why the other... which avoid endless questions and unnecessary drama) can of course be tailored to their persona.