need opinions on my copy please

15 years ago

Really interesting niche. I haven't seen it before so it immediately had my attention. As for the site itself, it's a bit hard to tell since the screen shots of your CB commissions are a tried and true method, but since it's a new market, there's really nothing to compare it too.

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Want to make $$$ with a dating/sex product that basically sells itself?

RickDuris

RickDuris

RickDuris

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15 years ago

Hi ebraininc,

Sometimes, things make my blood boil. This is one of them.

1. Granted: Your graphics design and formatting are almost impeccable. Good for you.

2. You will be compromised because it is unbelievable. It lacks integrity. There are telltale signs EVERYWHERE.

I'll give you one (ultra-obvious) case in point:

The testimonials.

They suck. Like really bad. And they are bogus--it's obvious. Nobody says "Hi, this is Jack from California, and I bought your e-course..."

BS. NOBODY writes like that.

Plus there's no numbers.

Now, I appreciate the FTC compliance issues. But you've basically waved a big red flag, calling attention the fact that while YOU *may* be making money, people who buy your product won't.

But it's really good information, gosh darn it!

Sheesh.

Rip out those testimonials. They hinder, they do not help.

I could go on but it's clear to me what you are selling is not going to change anybody's life financially speaking. You are just trying suck money from somebody's wallet or pocketbook.

No value.

It's so sad.

If I sound adversarial, then prove your position. And when you prove it, prove it without question or equivocation.

Throw your best punch.

If you succeed, I will apologize profusely.

But I bet you, I dare you, that you can't. And you won't. But if you've got the goods, prove beyond question or doubt.

And the best part? When you prove to me and the rest of us, you can use it in your copy. So you have nothing to lose by doing what I request.

Like give me the phone number of your CPA. Joe Karbo did that with his Lazy Man's Way to Riches.

You can too.

- Rick Duris

PS: Mal is right. You think your customers are morons. But it's your life. Just wait for the chargebacks and refund requests.

PPS: The hard part about pieces like this, is it gives all of us copywriters and marketers a bad reputation.
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CopyRanger.com

Banned 15 years ago

So your head is How a Lazy College Dropout Turned $200 Into A Million Dollar Empire
by Selling Video Games Online!

...do you think there's just the chance that your readers might say - "bull****!"? Or do you really think they're all complete morons?

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Zentech

Zentech

Zentech

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15 years ago

So the "video game Godfather" retired from his "verifiable" million dollar business to sell a $49 Clickbank report?

But other than a few plausibility problems like that, this is pretty good copy. If I were involved in this niche I'd probably be considering buying.

However, you do have a consistency problem. I'm never clear on whether this is aimed at me as an existing video game seller or whether it's aimed at me as Joe Blow generic "opportunity seeker." The first half kind of led me to believe that this is for existing sellers, while the second half gave me the feeling it was aimed at anybody.

It doesn't manage to get me itching to start a video game business from scratch, but it does leave me with the feeling that if I were already in that business, it would probably be worth buying.
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15 years ago

Ive seen a lot of sales page designs that we're just unbelievably hard on the eyes and made it difficult to read. From a design stand point the page is nice. The headlines work for me, the bullets are nice and your story is told really well.

You actually got me interested in ordering and I'm a hard sale - I don't spend money online unless I feel it's absolutely necessary so that says something. You and I may need to talk about this, lol

I did feel it was a little overhyped. I see some others agree on that as well. Anytime I see an ad talking about money over 5 figures I feel like pulling out the waders. At the same time I know there's a lot of money in the video game industry and I'm certain anyone even remotely interested in that niche would get that as well.

I will say that the first opt-in form seemed out of place and caught me off guard. It may be the color or style but it stood out in the wrong way. It almost felt a little early for the opt-in, not sure. I just know something felt wrong about (maybe someone else can chime in on this one and offer an opinion on it)

Now I need to go talk myself out of video-game drop shipping, I'm busy enough.

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15 years ago

The problem with your copy is believability.

It doesn't matter if it's true or not - you still have to make it BELIEVABLE.

You can either tone down your results OR re-write the copy in such a way that makes it SOUND believable.

I'm also not sure you nailed your market - but you know it better than I do. Are these people looking for selling video games? Or are they people looking for an easy opportunity to make money?

Maybe you could widen your net a bit.

The issue here is PROOF... you need to back up your crazy claims STRAIGHT AWAY. Look at how the big CB sellers in the IM market do it - under the subhead is a ton of proof.

Maybe you can link to your eBay account or something like that? Your website?

I can see you've tried hard here. You've got a story going, although I think it's a little bit too "out there" to be believable. I like the theme and some of your ideas... they just need to be handled with a little more caution.

-Dan

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Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

It doesn't matter if it's true or not - you still have to make it BELIEVABLE.

Uh huh. You have no problem with the ethics of that?

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15 years ago

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Uh huh. You have no problem with the ethics of that?

I see no problem underpromising and overdelivering.

Example:

You've seen the CB pages where they have account screenshots, right?

And they always take the best week or month or whatever and say "I made $xx xxx in a single week!"

If it suited you, you could always choose a week that's not quite as good... say one where you only made $x xxx... and present that as your "proof".

Again... not a lawyer. This is just my understanding based on my own reading and talks I've had with lawyers.

Example nombre deux:

There was a battery called "DieHard". It was a great product - could jump start 10 cars at once.

They shot an ad with it doing just that. No tricks, no gimmicks. Yet the public's reaction to these ads was "what a crock."

Yet when they changed it to three or four (can't remember) cars starting off a single battery (instead of ten) sales shot through the roof.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, and in this example, I don't see any ethical problem.

Apologies if I didn't make myself clear enough initially.

-Dan

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Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

I see no problem underpromising and overdelivering.

Example:

You've seen the CB pages where they have account screenshots, right?

And they always take the best week or month or whatever and say "I made xxx in a single week!"

If it suited you, you could always choose a week that's not quite as good... say one where you only made xxx... and present that as your "proof".

Again... not a lawyer. This is just my understanding based on my own reading and talks I've had with lawyers.

Example nombre deux:

There was a battery called "DieHard". It was a great product - could jump start 10 cars at once.

They shot an ad with it doing just that. No tricks, no gimmicks. Yet the public's reaction to these ads was "what a crock."

Yet when they changed it to three or four (can't remember) cars starting off a single battery (instead of ten) sales shot through the roof.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, and in this example, I don't see any ethical problem.

Apologies if I didn't make myself clear enough initially.

-Dan

Its got nothing to do with the smokescreen you're trying to float here. What you've said is its OK to lie - if you can get away with it. You say - "It doesn't matter if it's true or not - you still have to make it BELIEVABLE." When it fact it does indeed matter if its true. It matters a lot. Go ask the FTC. Or better still - go ask Perry Belcher - Perry Belcher – The Arrest of an Internet Marketer : Internet Laws Blog. That's the whole point. You can't just throw up bogus claims and figures. They have to be real and VERIFIABLE. And we as copywriters have a responsibility to make sure we are not selling snake-oil. Its 2010 not 1910.

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15 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

The problem with your copy is believability.

Let's assume all of your claims are 100% true - you STILL have to make it BELIEVABLE to the reader.

You can either tone down your results OR re-write the copy in such a way that makes it SOUND believable.

That's how *I* read Daniel's post.

Anybody got an ethical bone to pick with that?

Didn't think so.

Let's move on, shall we?

Happy Father's Day to all the Dad's who write money-making copy that brings home the bacon for their family.

Brian

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Brian McLeod

Direct Response Copywriting

15 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

That's how *I* read Daniel's post.

Anybody got an ethical bone to pick with that?

Didn't think so.

Let's move on, shall we?

Happy Father's Day to all the Dad's who write money-making copy that brings home the bacon for their family.

Brian

Brian,

You make it sound like it's an argument. It's not. :p

At least, not from me. It's just constructive criticism.

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BrianMcLeod

BrianMcLeod

BrianMcLeod

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15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

Brian,

You make it sound like it's an argument. It's not. :p

At least, not from me. It's just constructive criticism.

All good, Rezbi.

The thread WAS veering into dangerous territory...

...and there be monsters here...

...ancient Scottish ones with big teeth...

...ones that'll send ye to the dungeon with nothin'
but a stale crust of bread and water for a week.

That'd be a shame... again.

Like it is every time it happens.

Which it does... all the time.

Unfortunately, it's often constructive criticism that
gets us there.

That too is a shame... every time.

Just sayin'...

Best to all,

Brian
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Brian McLeod

Direct Response Copywriting

15 years ago

This might just be me personally (the average internet user may not know any better)...

But whenever I see these images :

Without the hyperlink for confirmation, I cringe.

It's basically saying,

"Hey, I'm honest and you can trust me and everything... BUT,
I've just ripped off these honesty images, without paying for them and you can't verify that I'm honest and everything...

But you can trust me!... Honest!"

They are great to have and worth the extra expense if
your sales cover the cost, etc.

and if you're really making 200 million $100 bucks
for the real deal aint gona scratch you.

I'm actually interested in the product though,
would love to sell video games, PM if you can cut the crap and give me the real meat...

i.e. where you source your games from, or if I can buy from you
direct, wholesale prices...

I'll pay you paypal.

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15 years ago

I read it a little differently, Mal. The way I read it, Dan was saying that the fact that it's true has no relevance if it isn't believable. That's different from saying that it's OK to lie. In my understanding, Dan was just saying that it doesn't matter whether the DieHard battery (from the example) can start 10 cars - which was true - because nobody is prepared to believe that is possible. That's why they had to reduce it to 3 or 4 cars to make the ad work.

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Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Zentech

I read it a little differently, Mal. The way I read it, Dan was saying that the fact that it's true has no relevance if it isn't believable. That's different from saying that it's OK to lie. In my understanding, Dan was just saying that it doesn't matter whether the DieHard battery (from the example) can start 10 cars - which was true - because nobody is prepared to believe that is possible. That's why they had to reduce it to 3 or 4 cars to make the ad work.

Huh? Read what he said again -

It doesn't matter if it's true or not - you still have to make it BELIEVABLE.

And that, in my book, is very dangerous advice. He's effectively saying "the truth is irrelevant" and "It's OK to lie".

The point being that it does matter if its true or not. It matters so much that people can and do go to jail for false advertising claims.

The car battery analogy has nothing to do with it.

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15 years ago

Originally Posted by Zentech

I read it a little differently, Mal. The way I read it, Dan was saying that the fact that it's true has no relevance if it isn't believable. That's different from saying that it's OK to lie. In my understanding, Dan was just saying that it doesn't matter whether the DieHard battery (from the example) can start 10 cars - which was true - because nobody is prepared to believe that is possible. That's why they had to reduce it to 3 or 4 cars to make the ad work.

Thank GOD someone gets it.

Zentech... get a yourself cookie, my man.

Mal... you're treating the people reading here like idiots... and they ain't.

It's not the first time you've tried to make up some BS about me to suit yourself and throw mud on my name.

Heck... I've been told by numerous people you've PMed them RE: me and told them I don't know how to write good copy.

Thankfully, anyone reading this is probably smart enough to see through that charade... and if they're not, I don't want them as clients anyway.

I've got the results to back up my reputation. I keep myself busy writing letters for heavy hitters (although I don't feel the need to constantly remind everyone of it as you do ala Frank Kern).

You may think because I usually ignore you stirring up trouble, I'm a pushover.

Wrong.

The car battery analogy had EVERYTHING to do with it, Mal. In fact, it perfectly illustrated the whole point I was making.

I'd try and make it clearer to you, but if a self-confessed copywriting "newbie" gets it, that tells me my point was pretty clear...

...and that you're just trying to start trouble for the sake of it.

Frankly, Mal... I'm sick of playing this game with you.

Get yourself a hobby or something... instead of just trying to bring my career down with obviously ridiculous statements that even the new guys can see through.

Like I say... I usually let this stuff slide... but I'm done playing.

Grow up and get over yourself.

-Dan

P.S. If anyone OTHER than Mal has a suggestion on how I should rephrase that line to make it clearer... feel free to let me know.

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15 years ago

Daniel Scott: The Die Hard analogy was perfect, I never even thought of this. I just figured since I actually did make those sales figures, I may as well capitolize on it because I will have very few competitors that can make claims like this and not be lying through their teeth. Since I can prove it, I can't get in trouble for it right? But if it's true yet over the top for most consumers to swallow, then I guess I can use meeker examples.

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Rockbit Media, LLC

15 years ago

Hey bro. Though the graphics look great, I have always thought these mafia type sites give a hypey generic look and lose a bit of credibility for me. The product looks cool though and it may convert to the right market. Also if you could use any images of actual game systems or their logos like xbox 360, ps3, wii, etc... I agree with the earlier comment too about the testimonials sucking. One or two killer testimonials would do much better and a video testimonial would be great. I think any copy should offer value and I feel no value out of reading this copy. Give a bit of your secrets away, or just one nugget. Now if your doing a launch this wouldn't be as important. Also play with the price once you get going. Selling the product for a 4.95 trial with auto-bill the rest after 7 days could increase the conversions. You could even charge more this way

Bottom line is if this product offers great value and doesn't suck, you don't need the hype. Be real. Act like your talking to your best friend about it, and offer value showing that you care.

Good luck.

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15 years ago

My opinion on your copy is it's most likely snake oil. Prove me wrong... Please. Because if you can't it's a black eye on the entire industry...

Because all I see is a lot of claims with no proof. I see testimonials that are obviously bogus...

And my real beef here is Mal: WTF man?

Daniel's point is obvious.

If I had a diet system that could safely help someone lose 40lbs a month, even if it was true, it'd be unbelievable...

So I may tone it down to 20lbs a month or whatever.

I have no idea how you took Daniels comment as condoning lying. It's like you make up reasons to pick fights here...

Seriously, reread his post. He didn't say a damn thing about lying being okay. He's talking about how claims, when they're true, can still be unbelievable.

-Scott

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Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Murdaugh

P.S. Sorry if I'm in a pissy mood right now, but look up the definition of "Nazi", that's still offensive to A LOT of people. I can take it in jest, but that word cuts extremely deep for many, you may want to rethink your positioning.

Go look up "The Soup Nazi" one of the most popular episodes from "Seinfeld" - a jew BTW. The Soup Nazi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term "Nazi" is used as an exaggeration of the excessively strict regimentation he constantly demands of his patrons.

As for "I have no idea how you took Daniels comment as condoning lying" perhaps it was what he wrote? Here's the full quote -

The problem with your copy is believability.

It doesn't matter if it's true or not - you still have to make it BELIEVABLE.

You can either tone down your results OR re-write the copy in such a way that makes it SOUND believable.

Who else reads that as "Its not really important if the claims are true or not - it only has to be perceived to be true". In other words it can be a complete load of tosh but as long as it sounds believable then that's alright. Yes...I can see that would be a good defence when you go before the FTC. Yeah...take note fellow copywriters - "It doesn't matter if your claims are true or not - you just need to make it sound believable". Where did that come from anyway - "The Siding Salesman's Handbook"? "Yes maam...we're from LIFE magazine and we need a shot of your house for the "before and after" photos on an article we're running in our magazine".

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15 years ago

Wow thank you all for the feedbacks. Case and point it seems to be unanimous is that the copy lacks believability. The 272k is a strong claim yes, but the fact of he matter is that I did take in 272k in sales in 30 days which was my best xmas ever. (my worst xmas was about 50k). That and all the other claims are all 100% true. Nevertheless am I understanding correctly that it is just too much for the average consumer to believe?

Btw, it is not 200 million, it is $200 (I started the biz with) and ended up doing a over a mil in sales. I hope the headline is not confusing people into thinking I mean 200 mil?

Also, I have plenty of proof of my sales numbers so do you think it would help to offer proof in the form of a scanned deposit ticket or bank statement? Or is it a better idea to simply tone down the whole thing in general?

And no I do not think people are morons. I worked very hard on this product which is why I am asking for your opinions. I do not want to waste time and money nor do I want to have high chargebacks and refunds, nor do I want a bad rep. I believe my book can help and will help people who use it, which is why I chose a subject that I am very seasoned in - as opposed to simply swiping to make a quick buck.

As for the optin I was also worried that it may be a bit early in the copy so I will have to play with that one.

All of your responses are hugely appreciated by the way - good or bad. I know my copy has flaws and I am new to the marketing of ebooks so thank you all.

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Rockbit Media, LLC

15 years ago

By the way I also lost thousands trying to figure out how to actually do a decent volume of sales online with video games. Would that be good or bad to mention in my copy? Because my ebook can help prevent some of the major risks involved. But I am not sure it would hurt the sale stating that I lost a lot of money when I was new in the biz even though almost anyone new to any biz will lose some money when they don't know much about it.

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Rockbit Media, LLC

15 years ago

And that, in my book, is very dangerous advice. He's effectively saying "the truth is irrelevant" and "It's OK to lie".

Well, I still don't think he's saying that, but if he is, then I'd completely disagree.

The truth is not only relevant, but is essential - not only to staying out of trouble, but to building good copy.

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Banned 15 years ago

Looks good.. my comment would be how about adding other visual stimulants like for example your expensive car/ house etc... this would excite the buyer even more

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Kent Hopkins

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Kent Hopkins

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15 years ago

Link8, thanks good idea but it sounds that the majority are saying it's already overhyped, so I think I will end up toning it down a bit or throwing in proof. More likely both.
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Rockbit Media, LLC

15 years ago

Wait, am I the "newbie?" Hehe... it's odd, because even though I haven't been doing copywriting for ages, I find it hard to consider myself that - simply because sales and psychology have come naturally and intuitively for me all my life. It's just a gift I have.

I'm 35 now - and at 19, I was selling waterbeds in a physical store and setting sales records despite being an ugly little teenage booger. I once sold a guy who was looking for a cheap bed an entire top of the line bedroom suite, which was unheard of - too bad his credit bounced, lol.

I'm a newbie to this forum and somewhat of a newbie to copywriting, but very far from a newbie to sales and the psychology behind it. I'm not trying to raise a fuss or "defend myself," I just want to clear the air regarding that and go on record so that it's established from here on out.

For the record, Dan, I don't know why Mal apparently didn't get your drift. To me, it was plain as day - but I like Mal and respect what I've seen of his work highly. Here's hoping you guys can work out what seems to be a personality clash between you.

If either of you would like any help toward that, feel free to contact me - I'm called "Zentech" because I studied Zen and philosophy for over ten years full-time and dealing with ego dynamics and interpersonal conflicts is second nature to me.

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15 years ago

Originally Posted by ebraininc

Daniel Scott: The Die Hard analogy was perfect, I never even thought of this. I just figured since I actually did make those sales figures, I may as well capitolize on it because I will have very few competitors that can make claims like this and not be lying through their teeth. Since I can prove it, I can't get in trouble for it right? But if it's true yet over the top for most consumers to swallow, then I guess I can use meeker examples.

The better option would be to back it up with a shedload of proof... hit people over the head with it until there is NO doubt in their mind.

More or less what Rick suggested.

I was bringing up the whole Die Hard thing purely as a point of interest others could learn from. I know the concept is in the Schwab book but I thought it was an awesome example (and 100% true).

Making crazy claims believable isn't easy, even with the right proof; but I'm sure we can help you overcome that obstacle if you've truly got the goods.

Originally Posted by Zentech

Wait, am I the "newbie?"

<SNIP>

I'm a newbie to this forum and somewhat of a newbie to copywriting, but very far from a newbie to sales and the psychology behind it. I'm not trying to raise a fuss or "defend myself," I just want to clear the air regarding that and go on record so that it's established from here on out.

Also for the record, I was referring to copywriting.

I didn't mean any offense, of course... but it doesn't look like you took offense, so we're all happy.

For the record, Dan, I don't know why Mal apparently didn't get your drift. To me, it was plain as day <SNIP>...

It's not the first time. I don't know why he does it, but I don't really care either.

I'm here primarily to share a little bit of what I've picked up in my career.

If one person has an "aha!" moment from something I write, to me that's worth it.

And of course... I'm not perfect (shocking, I know). Like anyone, I make mistakes and don't communicate things as clearly as I should... and it's always good to get feedback about that.

But when someone seemingly deliberately tries to twist my words... I get a little annoyed.

The important thing is that it is now (I hope) crystal clear what I'm trying to get it.

If anyone has questions... I'll be glad to elaborate.

-Dan

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15 years ago

I think the misunderstanding from Daniel's quote is...

It doesn't matter if it's true or not It doesn't matter if it's true or not - you still have to make it BELIEVABLE.

I can 100% guarantee that Dan wasn't saying "lying is okay as long as you make it believable"...

He's saying "tone it down so it is believable"...

Case in point... Say I made $600k last month because of a good stock pick. Would I use that in copy without undeniable proof? No...

I may say "300% return" or "tripled my money", but $600k is unbelievable and sets of the BS radar...

And, as I read it, and as Dan explained to me in private, that's what he meant, keep it believable... When it's true. NOT make it believable when you're lying.

BTW thanks so much for the personal comments - both here and in an offensive PM. Way to go. Class act.

I didn't send you a PM Mal...

Thanks,

-Scott

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Banned 15 years ago

Good post here from Scott. Pertinent to this discussion - How To Write Sales Copy | Reasons People Don’t Believe Your Copy (Or Buy) And How To Fix It.

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15 years ago

[DELETED]

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

The comment from Daniel can obviously be read one of two ways, the way Daniel intended it which I could see instantly but conversely, Mal is also right too for just as he states, it can be read in a very, very negative way with an altogether different meaning attached.

Look guys, it's no big deal, it's another storm in a teacup. We all word things differently and dare I say it, we all have rather massive ego's.

Daniel, if you could possibly put that comment another way so the inference of what Mal is stating could be taken away for good - how would you rephrase it please?

Afterall, all of us have to rephrase things all the time to give off the best impression.

Mark knocks Daniels and Mals heads together and goes back to munching popcorn.

I have to agree with Mal.

Daniel may have meant something else, but it obviously wasn't clear to Mal.

If you're a copywriter you need to make darned sure the message is clear.

Ambiguity is a no-no in copy. And it's no different whether you're trying to sell something for cash, or just trying to put a point across.

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15 years ago

Hi People!

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your help!

Updates I made:

Proof added:
I just added a bunch of scanned bank statement pages to back up my claims. A lot of you suggested showing proof of the claims. I took the testimonials out and replaced them with industry experts quotes etc.

removed "unbelievable" facts
Also took the word "million" out of the headline. Although it's totally true, it is unbelievable for most as I think Daniel stated above.

Thanks again. Any ideas for an upsale?

PS - I can't think of any better proof than actual statements, and I think that's enough, but I am open to other ideas if you think people will still not believe? How about some e3 badges, ces badges, etc??

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Rockbit Media, LLC

need opinions on my copy please

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