A Question to Non-Native English Speakers

14 years ago

Two of the most important things a copywriter must do are ...

Enter the conversation going on in the prospects mind
Communicate with the prospect in a way that resonates with him

A person who is not ingrained in the American culture finds this very difficult to do.

Americans are no more and no less xenophobic than people from other countries. People are people wherever they live.

Alex

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Fibonacci

14 years ago

On the other hand, let's take food as an example. Nutrition practices are probably the most personal things any culture has. Everyone values those food traditions they got from their childhood home.
Yet, as we all know, N-Korea is probalby the only country in the whole world where there are no McDonaldses in every major city. American food practices must have been accepted, or else business would be impossible. Now, if it's a one-way street only, what should one think about it?

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MontelloMarketing 14 years ago

Here's your answer... Wanna Make More Money Online? You Gotta Be American! It's far more fleshed out there than I could in a forum post.
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txconx

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Fibonacci

On the other hand, let's take food as an example. Nutrition practices are probably the most personal things any culture has. Everyone values those food traditions they got from their childhood home.
Yet, as we all know, N-Korea is probalby the only country in the whole world where there are no McDonaldses in every major city. American food practices must have been accepted, or else business would be impossible. Now, if it's a one-way street only, what should one think about it?

Your sample isn't really relevant. McDonald's has either been restricted from entering the market by the N. Korea government, or they have chosen not to enter the market for political or other business reasons. The reasons behind McDonald's not having a presence in N. Korea have nothing to do with the eating practices of North Koreans or the desire of North Koreans to eat American food.

If you're going to write anything for a predominantly American market, you have to have excellent American English skills. In my experience, this is where most non-native English speakers fall short - as evidenced by the inaccuracy of your subject title. The syntax doesn't flow, there are errors in spelling, punctuation and grammar - and why would anyone pay for a job when they have to perform major revisions?

Second, as noted already, you have to be familiar with how and why Americans buy. In my experience, this is the second major shortcoming of offshore writers.

It has nothing to do with prejudice or xenophobia. Any bias is a result of disappointing experience when attempting to work with people who lack the skills and understanding to adequately perform the job.

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Fibonacci

14 years ago

Originally Posted by txconx

Your sample isn't really relevant. McDonald's has either been restricted from entering the market by the N. Korea government, or they have chosen not to enter the market for political or other business reasons. The reasons behind McDonald's not having a presence in N. Korea have nothing to do with the eating practices of North Koreans or the desire of North Koreans to eat American food.

You missed the point. North Korea hasn't really any importance in this question. What I wanted to say was that almost every nation has accepted a foreign fast food restaurant in their neighborhood. It makes then two nations in total who do not accept foreign influences, does it not?

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Pusateri

14 years ago

Americans love imports.

Play up your origin and make your offering exotic. Then any unusual (to the American ear) usage or phrasing becomes charming.

Think about all the foreign things Americans have embraced in the last fifty years from cuisine to cars to consumer goods...even spiritual gurus.

"A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country." In other words, the expert from the far off land must know something we don't.

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MontelloMarketing

14 years ago

True... but...

only works if you're selling something foreign. If you're selling (as 90% of warriors are) online digital products, your charming idea works only if you're selling "foreign expertise" to america.

Cooking... cars and the like are doing just that.

You can't sell a Cadillac to a guy from Michigan using broken Spanglish.

And... you'll be hard pressed to sell anything (other than foreign expertise) to an american audience with obviously non-american english.

Not saying it's right...

Not saying it's wrong...

Just saying it's fact.

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Americans love imports.

Play up your origin and make your offering exotic. Then any unusual (to the American ear) usage or phrasing becomes charming.

Think about all the foreign things Americans have embraced in the last fifty years from cuisine to cars to consumer goods...even spiritual gurus.

"A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country." In other words, the expert from the far off land must know something we don't.

Thanks
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Pusateri

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

True... but...

only works if you're selling something foreign. If you're selling (as 90% of warriors are) online digital products, your charming idea works only if you're selling "foreign expertise" to america.

Can't foreign expertise be bundled with just about anything?

How about a Russian hacker's guide to _______.
Nigerian Persuasion Protocol.
SEO Secrets of Bajookastani Monks

You can't sell a Cadillac to a guy from Michigan using broken Spanglish.

Hey, I'm in South Texas. This happens all the time.

And... you'll be hard pressed to sell anything (other than foreign expertise) to an american audience with obviously non-american english.

To a large extent, I agree. It takes an exceptional marketer. Most wouldn't have the stones, creativity or discernment to pull it off.

But for those who do, well...look at Arnold Schwarzenegger...

The advice they gave him when he went into acting was lose the accent and change your name (in Hercules Goes Bananas he was dubbed and billed as Arnold Strong.) He had the discernment to realize he would never fix that accent and that the strange name could be part of his brand.

Or, in the info marketing realm there's Pavel Tsatsouline, the Evil Russian. That guy started the kettlebell craze. He actually calls viewers 'comrades' in his videos. Yes, he uses the foreign expertise angle, but is it really? Every gymnasium in America had kettlebells in 1900.

Deepak Chopra just put an Indian accent on New Agey crap. Ginsu is just a cheap knife dressed as a samurai.

The brain loves an interesting angle. It's an ancient Chinese secret. Spin it and win it.

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Fibonacci

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Americans love imports.

Play up your origin and make your offering exotic. Then any unusual (to the American ear) usage or phrasing becomes charming.

Think about all the foreign things Americans have embraced in the last fifty years from cuisine to cars to consumer goods...even spiritual gurus.

"A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country." In other words, the expert from the far off land must know something we don't.

That sounds more like it, thanks. So, the solution should be to find a niche where this little problem would turn into an asset... Maybe something like classical music which is Italian?

Thanks
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txconx

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Fibonacci

That sounds more like it, thanks. So, the solution should be to find a niche where this little problem would turn into an asset... Maybe something like classical music which is Italian?

Or places in Italy... or Italian food...

Lord knows Americans love all of the above. Even if your American English isn't perfect, I agree that you could turn it to your advantage by making it charming and exotic.

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Pusateri

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Fibonacci

That sounds more like it, thanks. So, the solution should be to find a niche where this little problem would turn into an asset... Maybe something like classical music which is Italian?

Absolutely, as long as there is a large enough market to make it worthwhile.

Thanks
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marciayudkin 14 years ago

Are Americans really so xenophobic that only your mere foreign presence, slightly different wording or mindset would turn your offer down?

I don't think it's xenophobia so much as insularity - lack of exposure and lack of interest. In many areas of America, people are not regularly exposed to foreigners. I don't think that's as true in Europe.

I live in New England most of the year, and I am totally amazed at how many people I know there have never been to Canada (which is 3-5 hours away) and have no interest whatsoever in going there to have a look. Therefore they have even less knowledge or interest in the fact that Canada uses different spellings than we do.

Likewise, someone who buys lots of stuff on the Internet can get practically everything they need from American companies and barely notice that there are merchants from other countries online. I don't think that's as true in reverse, either.

Marcia Yudkin
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- smartdoctor 14 years ago
  
  Hi,
  I am a well educated non native English speaker. I have scored highly in all American English Test Offered by Freelancing Companies online. Over the years I have worked with Numerous Americans and I have even noted my written English Is better than English Written by some of my buyers in Instructional Emails and Messages. I find this idea of xenophobia unrealistic for me. Since I have not experienced it in my entire online career. I believe it all boils down on the quality of work and your communication skills. Furthermore, who is an American? I have several friends that have immigrated to the US does that make them any better than me???????
  Dr Joe Njenga
  
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lometogo 14 years ago

Originally Posted by txconx

.... you have to be familiar with how and why Americans buy.

And it's not just the native language issue.

A further complication, even if you are a native American, is you have to understand the DEMOGRAPHIC for which you write.

I'm 63, and it's a stretch for me to write for the 30 year-old set. I clearly need to run my copy by a trusted source who is either of that demographic, or understands it and its buying motivations.
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geegel

14 years ago

The basic idea when dealing with this problem is to simply walk around it. I must confess that I've never landed a gig through WF, but I believe my advice still applies.

Typically when making a pitch to land a new contract I focus on the specifics. If the contract involves e-mail copywriting I highlight how different it is from its traditional counterpart, if on the contrary the gig is for a sales letter, I highlight the need to differentiate from the competition with an USP and so on. I try to come across as knowledgeable and specialized. Personal branding and testimonials from past customers also help.

I don't bring the native language issue at any point during my pitch. If it does show up, I direct them to the results of my English score test (meant for natives), where I've scored higher than average.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
George

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Fibonacci 14 years ago

Joe and George, thank you for sharing your experiences.
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- smartdoctor 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Fibonacci
  
  Joe and George, thank you for sharing your experiences.
  
  Thank you. One thing you need to know that there are also Americans who dont mind so much about the decent of a freelancer but they value the quality of the work. Over the few years I have been a freelance writer I have learnt to DO business without shouting. I have numerous happy buyers across the divide but Trust me when I say that I never take up contracts from those buyers who are shouting loud. I mean the kind who write long emails and messages instructing you on what to do as though you dont know and you have been doing this for years. I also dislike those buyers who think you dont have a life. They think you are not entitled to an opinion, you are a YES MAN just because they are paying you
  Generally a good percentage of buyers are reasonable people
  Dr. Joe Njenga
  
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Nicholas Spear

14 years ago

Hi - Fibonacci (I assume you are an Italian – as the original was- or maybe you just like to Forex Trade lol) there is a fairly simple solution to this matter – those who do not have English as a first language please ensure you use Word and have the spell check on, and try and follow the grammar rules – that way if the dictionary is set to American – you will beat the non-natural American English speaker difficulty – your grammar will be Americanized, your syntax will be Americanized “God Dammit” you will be Americanized hahaha – there are valid comments about these things but really if a copy writer does a poor job – be they American English speakers or not – don’t use them again?.

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methomas

14 years ago

I don't think it is where you are from that matters. It is the quality of your English if you are selling to a natural born person in the USA.

In the past, I outsourced articles and the country of orgin did not matter. I bought some articles that were very bad and I had to totally rewrite them. I also bought some that were written in better English than I can write. Who received repeat business?

I feel that it is the quality of the product that is most important.

M E

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kellyburdes

14 years ago

Hey Fibonocci, do you happen to be involved in the financial markets by chance? Just curious because of the nickname you have here.

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Mo Annuar

14 years ago

In my opinion people who are not native English speakers can be made very happy by using professional terms and words and a good English language.

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marypulido

14 years ago

I think in any kind of professional relationship, language can never be a barrier. As long as you know your job, you understand your clients requirement, language might not be an issue. Yes, accent might be a problem...but that happens with everyone

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A Question to Non-Native English Speakers

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