What's the deal with wanting copy - without a product ready to go?

A few years ago some some guru marketers starting releasing products on making money by becoming an authority in niches that you have absolutely no experience in.

This somehow caught on, and before you knew it, thousands of blogs and products popped up, created by marketers who's main focus was on the money, not the passion.

Look at how many ready made niche blogs are being sold on the warrior forum alone.

You buy it, install it, plug in some related clickbank products, pay someone on fiverr to write some articles, and boom..., you are running a blog on how to needlepoint.

Sad really!

It seems likely that they are hoping you will provide the whole package for them, including the concept, outline for the product and the copy. That way they only have to connect the dots

let me give it shot why...

people what to pay very little get instant celebrity and wealth from the automated product that once you write will crush the competition and get them to buy that island life they dreamed about.

am I close?

I've heard some copywriters/marketers who have mentioned that they
often create the sales letter and then make the product according
to what the sales letter mentions. I assume that is what they are
aiming for. But I really cannot see how another person can do that
for a marketer. I can understand you doing this for yourself but
definitely not hired gig.

- Ray Edwards

I was a personal trainer before I got into marketing.

And you'd be amazed how many people go to a gym, plop down $500 for a years' membership, and never go again.

They want the dream... the end result... yet don't want to put in the work.

Same thing with a lot of people who think their path to riches is creating an ebook and then selling millions.

They see a story about a once-unknown ebook writer who made millions with an ebook... so they want a piece of that pie.

Yet, they don't want to actually put in the work, or deal with the up and down struggles of a real business.

I've been doing copy for 10 years, and I can honestly say more than 80% of the people who call or email me have NO shot at making it with their product... either because it sucks, or the market has zero need for it.

Yet... THEY wanted to write about something THEY liked or thought interesting... but had no idea what the market wanted.

That's just human nature, many people want the money but have no real plan or strategy to get it... they'd rather take a pipe dream to a copywriter to have it all done for them.

I've done what Ray and Luke has mentioned above... both for myself AND for clients.

I write the most persuasive copy I possibly can in a market where I know the need exists... then I take that salesletter and deliver it to my writers and say "write me an ebook that does every single thing I mention in these bullet points."

Sure, I'll have to go back to the copy and edit/revise certain areas once the actual product is created... but the product is created MOSTLY from the copy.

That does work, and I've used it well.

In fact, a current client we're doing almost that same strategy... we found her niche, thought of her sales approach/USP... and I'm even creating her copy... all before the ebook is actually started. That way, I can help lead the ebook writer down the path that I think will help most of the readers.

So, either way works... but it all boils down to the right offer and right market.

these days, I won't take a client unless it passes a product checklist I've created.

The checklist basically starts with "is this a product or service that solves a problem or fulfills a desire for a large, passionate base of people"

If it doesn't make it past that check point, I won't bother.

Because the truth is, if you write copy for a product that should never have seen the light of day, YOU the copywriter will be seen as the reason for the failure, not the product.

I've written sales copy before creating a product several times before. I don't release the copy or the product, it's more of kind of an intellectual exercise on my part in that I'm writing out copy with features and benefits etc etc, and it sort of creates a clearer picture for me in terms of what I need to include in my product.

On your next project try this little exercise.

Don't look at the product. Yeah, you know the market and the title and what it's about in general. But that's about it.

Do your other research. Find out what the market really wants. And then write your heart out.

I can pretty much guarantee what you write will be better than what you would have written if you'd known what's inside the product.

This is also when the Client discovers to his amazement you know more about the market than he does.

Usually if the Client has any sense they'll go back refresh the product and give it all the attributes you described.

- Rick Duris

Real life story re: passion.

Ben Suarez wrote a book. Gary Halbert told him it sucked. But Ben had a great PASSION for the book and went ahead and had 1000 copies printed. Ben just knew everyone would want one.

It was a book on tables and charts showing interest rates and such.

He couldn't place a single copy in local bookstores on consignment. He didn't even sell one.

Halbert said something like, "Ben if you want to make money in this industry, sell what people want. Right now, astrology is hot."

Ben replied with disgust and hatred of the idea, "NEVER."

Never lasted a few months when Ben's fledgling company was on the brink of bankruptcy, so he finally heeded Sir Gary's advice and started selling what people wanted...astrology.

He hated the idea, but, not long after he started he had a BREAKTHROUGH promotion, a full page ad on the back of the Sunday comics. Thousands of dollars started rolling in within days. Tens of thousands came in in weeks.

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars came in once he set up his funnel and that money, all from astrology, gave Ben Suarez enough money to build his huge business to one of the biggest remote direct marketing companies in the world.

His real passion was for building a business and making money.

The lesson he took from this was, to sell what people want, not what he was personally passionate about. A couple of billion dollars later, he's still going strong.

HALBERT said the only advantage he wanted was to build his hamburger stand near a starving crowd. Today, McDonalds are next to Burger King, Wendys and whole strips of fast food can be found around the country.

Passion is great for a lifetime, doing what you love, in my opinion, it isn't necessary or even desired for a particular product.

Finding what people are buying and creating or acquiring a complimentary product is pretty smart.

If a copywriter has a non-refundable retainer fee, and limits the rewrites, he should be able knock these out all day long and build up some potential future business.

Junior copywriters in agencies don't get to pick their assignments, they are given them and must do the research on their own. Many a huge business has been built from a less than well defined concept.

Get established, then you control what you write on and for whom.

I think this sounds like some very easy money if the client meets your terms.

gjabiz

PS. The mistake repeated by newbs is, falling in love with your idea or product, be less passionate about it and more business/bottom line and you'll probably do better.

Sounds like they wanted you to define/develop the product for them. They look at your copy and say, "Wow! That would be a great feature. Let's add that, too."

And, actually, I've done this same thing to create products/product ideas myself. Define the niche and write the sales letter. Let the ideas flow.

The reason for this is based on the lean start-up principle of test your market and product offering before building it.

What they will generally do is produce a sales page with an email subscribe (squeeze page) and throw some PPC or solo ads at it. If they get a lot of bites they simply build the product, offer it to those on the email and work the sales page to convert and take it from there.

The other reason is like many have mentioned here is to start with the copy and work towards the product. Reason for this:

1. It's a great sales page and sales promotion that makes it - getting the sales is the hardest part. A product can be improved based on customer feedback. Even if people hate your first version you can do back improve the product and send them the update. Start, do something but engage customers first. Let them tell you what they want. (again from the Lean Startup principle)

2. Writing a sales page gets you in the right frame of mind to get buzzed and think about what you need to offer to get sales which will ultimately outline and define the product. To many writers this does seem backward but there are many well written, well intentioned products that never really get a chance because the sales materials just do not convince people. Start by working on convincing people and then this feeling and emotion will flow into the inspirational parts of the product. You want to get your customers in an excited, emotional, inspired state and then have that carry through to the download/delivery page and the product. Go from Buy, to read/watch to go out and use the knowledge and get results. All adding value to the customers life and experience. That flow will get people loving you.

I agree that a sales page can inspire further development of an idea, but I think that to hire a copywriter with no brief or product information is simply trying to use their ideas to create the product.
I think the problem is there are far too many people attempting to jump on the IM bandwagon as they think they can pay a few dollars and buy success gift wrapped.