A New Description For the Copywriting Forum...

Well, c'mon Alex, have at it. no one will try to hold you back. You generally have good tips imo.

This thread was mostly a joke.. Just wanted to state that.

My 'problem' is that people don't know what advice to trust.

It was just a thought though. And as Seth says, hard to moderate.

My main motive for being here is to help - not to get business - and not to learn. Sure, I learn some but not that much.

So, I like to help others but it's hard sometimes when legitimate voices get drowned out by chest-thumping wannabes.

I'm not saying I am the best or only voice - far from it - but the 'pick me' circle #$%^ gets tiring.

There's my sweet little ray of funshine again

I believe we're all on the same front on that one. One-and-done wannabes whose copywriting education consists of articles and/or cheap WSO offers? Meh. Article writers who come in and try to educate us? Meh.

I'm not going to kick any of them out. I am occasionally going to raise hell about LISTENING to them, heeding their often well-intentioned but SORELY misinformed advice. But when they come on the board and say these misinformed things, it's a chance for another generation of copywriter wannabes who will actually SUCCEED to learn something vital.

Yes, we get bored with it. It's nothing new to us. We rehash this shit almost monthly.

But the newbs? They benefit from interesting discussions, tactical suggestions, and the occasional flaming alike.

Welcome to the copywriting club.

The only reason this ^ didn't make my list is that those people might just be ignorant. As long as they're willing to admit that they're wrong, they can be salvaged.

Bad opinions can lead to a lot of lost money for the people who come here to get a critique.

Whereas article writing topics can easily be ignored at no financial cost to anyone.

-Chris

I'm not a copywriter, but...

This reminds me of culinary school years back. Yep, I'm an intellectual.

Anyway, we'd all spend day after day doing everything we could to please the Chef instructors. Painstakingly cutting roots and vegetables into the perfect dice or julienne. Roasting, sauteing, grilling and braising or making soups and sauces only to wait in line for the Chef to inspect.

He'd poke and prod the food we'd worked so hard over and eventually take a bite while we waited, nervously anticipating his verdict.

Eventually he'd either grunt or say "needs salt" and we were done. Unless of course, we'd really screwed up.

But after comparing notes and studying under various instructors you'd find that each Chef had his own personal opinion on pretty much everything. Taste. How exact a cut needs to be to meet their approval. Just how golden "golden brown" really is, etc.

The same goes for the customers you would eventually make your creations for out in the real world.

But the thing is, with the exception of (generaly) technical points, most of what a person says, professional or not, is their opinion on what is important about a particular work.

In this forum, just as when I went to school, you take in everything and learn what is important to you.

Each person is going to teach you something. Even if it's only what you won't do in the future because it doesn't mesh with your own personal flavor.

But to do that, you have to watch and listen to more than just one opinion/example.

That's what's great about this forum. Lots of opinions. Lots of examples.

I know I pipe up now and then (sorry James), but when I do so, it's not about anything technical. It's more about how I perceive the flow as a fellow reader. Is it smooth? Does it keep my interest?

I'd not speak up if I didn't think the person I was replying to was worth it. But I also know I'm not experienced in this field so I feel it's important to add a qualifier. Ego isn't particularly big with me, so I have no problem telling you up front I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

I say that a lot which is strange considering I'm almost always right.

But I also expect to be smacked down when I say something that you don't agree with. That's how we learn. Even if it's from the common folk.

Just my opinion. See below.

Btw... I actually support the idea of having some sort of system that clearly marks those with actual real world experience. Something where those already in the know would have to vouch for a new person being bumped into that hallowed status.

But honestly, the people who are going to be harmed by advice from the uninformed are probably people who aren't willing to stick around long enough to actually learn and just want their problem of the moment solved.

Who's to blame for that?

P.S. (is it P.S.S. if it follows a btw?)

I'd considered formatting this post into a brick of text to see if it gets read but realized it's my post so the results really wouldn't be a good representation.

Many here hate walls of text but both Sugarman and Halbert say hooey to that nonsense. Personally, I'd have to have a compelling reason to tackle a wall of text myself.