Should some people just quit internet marketing?

Well they say only 1% of the internet marketers make money... so these people you speak about are the rest of 99%.

Ill have to agree with you in this one. Most people do know the secret to being successful online. Off course there are some people that don't know where to start but for those who do know, it is all based on your commitment.

If you want traffic, then make a daily SEO post and create a video for your channel! Getting results does take some time but it is definitely possible. Those people who quit is because they have a "get rich in a day mindset".

When I first started out I was making NOTHING for the first 3 months. But I was not thinking in the short term. I focused in the long term and how much money I was going to be able to make by the end of that year. After working my ass off for a consistent period of time I saw rewards coming in.

Making money online is VERY possible. It all depends on what you to get it.

Sorry but this is complete B.S. There are plenty of people who fail in business who are very committed. Consider this: 3 out of 4 venture-backed startups fail (Source: The Venture Capital Secret: 3 Out of 4 Start-Ups Fail - WSJ). That's 75%! And these are not untalented, unskilled, unresourced people spending a few hours in their pajamas reading the WF and trying to get people to click on their affiliate links for some shady product that nobody really wants or needs. These are business people, I.T. pros and other very, very skilled professions. They have teams and products that are at least good enough to attract investment -- no small feat in itself -- so already they're probably better off than 99% of other new businesses.

But these businesses don't fail because of lack of commitment. Sometimes, their ideas really weren't good enough. Sometimes their teams weren't good enough. Sometimes the numbers didn't add up when they tried to monetize. Sometimes, they got smashed by the competition. And yes, (as Alexa so astutely said) sometimes they were just unlucky. I know because I've worked at startups that failed. Believe me, we were committed and worked liked dogs. But one day the money ran out and that was it.

Even in the areas that you mentioned -- weight loss and dating -- there will be people who simply cannot succeed no matter their commitment. Some people just have a genetic disposition to being heavy. Some people have a genetic disposition to be repulsive to potential mates. Some people are just unlucky and meet the wrong people.

Yes, by working hard and being committed you can increase your chances of success, but even in weight loss and dating, those chances will never be 100%. And in starting a new business -- whether a high tech startup or a spammy MMO business -- your chances will always be much, much lower.

Unfortunately some people don't have the talent.
Some people don't have the skills.
Some people don't have the luck.

Commitment may be a necessary precondition to success, but don't delude yourself that it's a sufficient one.

For me the issue is not that new people are asking the same or stupid questions, it's that people who clearly aren't well suited to running an online business are being told that all they have to do to make money online is (a) work hard (or be committed or "take action" or...) and (b) purchase the right system (which the person telling them this happens to be selling them).

Being a successful entrepreneur is like anything else: some people are better at it than others. And some people just don't have what it takes to succeed. This doesn't make them stupid or bad people, but it does mean that they'd do better to spend their efforts elsewhere. Personally, I wouldn't look at it as "intolerant" if someone told me that given my age, skills, talents and complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter, I'd never have what it takes to be a concert oboist. Maybe I'd still buy an oboe because I thought it was fun, but at least I'd know not to expect to one day play for the New York Philharmonic.

No, obviously people who don't have the skills and talents to succeed in entrepreneurship shouldn't be "shot in the head" -- but they should be dissuaded from joining the large ranks of people who waste a lot of time and energy working their tails off but getting no results. At least if they worked a normal job, they'd be guaranteed a steady paycheck.

I don't do coaching (or anything else MMO-related), but if I did, I'd have an application process and only accept those who I thought stood a chance of actually succeeding. To me, that seems (a) ethical and (b) better for both the coached (who won't waste time and money if he or she isn't cut out for it) and the coached (who will have higher rates of success to show off).


Would that really be a bad thing? Maybe then the creators would try to do something productive with their lives instead of selling shoddy products to gullible dreamers of instant riches. And maybe then the WSOs that truly do provide value would rise to the top.

Point taken, thank you for saying this, it was kind and not necessary. I was asking for a slap in the face by posting my original reply with poor-attitude. After getting some sleep and reading it-- must admit I'm embarrassed.

Nobody wants to help a helpless person that wastes effort complaining. It is easy to want sympathy when you are going down the toilet bowl financially and you used to be he person that everything they touched turned to gold. I may have lost my fancy-home, fast-cars, wild-parties, and the finer things in life but I am happier (generally speaking) than before. Sometimes getting knocked down hard is what it takes to figure out what is important to you.

If we hadn't had been foreclosed and moved to a Winnebago, nearly on top of each other, then my relationship with my wife may not have flourished in a positive way like it is now. I'd probably still be in the same trance-- more money, more money, party, party, money, sex, drugs, lust, etc..

I used to turn things to gold and everyone around me knew it-- so this is my punishment for confidence and ego. Karma taught me a lesson. Never take anything for granted, thankfully I was relatively sincere when successful (monetarily) and quite generous and I think that is the only thing saving me now-- people who looked up to me are helping more than they can really afford.

People are good, generally speaking-- too bad we were too busy focusing on the moment and let a bunch of psychopaths get voted into government, but I digress.

Life is good.

I agree with this and somehow believe it doesn't apply to my situation-- not quite yet anyway. But love is blind, or maybe my ego has me deluded.

I believe that my own personal knowledge and personality puts me somewhere at the very extreme and violent edge of the event horizon between living and dying. I am literally staring death in the eyes, but the eyes are getting farther away every day, week, and year. Am I deluded to think that my success, albeit slow, will continue? I don't know and am open to suggestion. For now I am not ready to throw in the towel but I may look at doing some odd jobs to help the financial situation in the short term.

Why I am not ready to give up yet...

I started out getting excited about $1 in Adsense earnings (in any one day), then six months later I set my goal for over $1 daily and made it. And a few years later, the income doubling continues and is slowly accelerating towards the poverty level, lol. My next goal is $10 daily (every day) and I'm probably a few months away from it. This is all from organic traffic that drives affiliate income (Adsense, and Amazon), I have no product and that is my next goal, figuring out what my product will be. I am a professional programmer who is an expert in some "niche" areas, so I do not believe there would be enough demand for a product about my area of expertise and I do not want to sell something unless I believe it provides value. IM, when it comes to selling products seems to be like a used-car business, you have to decide if you are going to sell quality at a lower margin, or crap at crazy margins. Or you might be exceptionally gifted and get high margins for the best quality.

So on the topic of quitting or not quitting...

I am one more goal away from greatly improving my quality of life, that goal is $20 daily in affiliate earnings via organic traffic. I am two goals away from the top, the point where things should move faster and we may be back in a home within a year!

Should I give up on something that shows promise just because it is too slow? I really don't know and I have almost quit at least ten times, I listed the websites for sale at least twice.

I have had success making money fast trading stocks & options after learning some expensive lessons. I've since done this on a few occasions where I needed to turn $2,000 into $20,000 in short order but you need the money and no matter how good you are, or how you use options to protect your downside-- it isn't risk free. If hindsight were 20-20 I'd have rented a home instead of buying an RV to live in and continued trading which is exponentially more lucrative.

I see my daughters, they have my drive-- and they are putting money before relationships and not balancing it properly. I taught them wrong and this business will eventually help teach them, and will be there for them when they burn-out.

So, to make a long story -- not too much longer, I want to say that I believe that I am on the road to success and that is why I do not just accept failure and try something else. If my numbers were not continuously moving in the right direction I would move on, but the numbers are slowly-and-consistently improving (and when I say slow I mean slow). Some friends and family have looked at me with their head tilted to one side when I tell them that I hope to pass this business to my daughters. I see the fact that my earnings are doubling every six-months, and that eventually time will work to my favor. I also see that if I am ill for two weeks, or have a family emergency, that the hard work and organic traffic keep working 24x7 even if I am not able. So I see a faint light at the end-of-the-tunnel.

Your point was well taken... I will not waste too much effort on something that does not appear to have a good chance of success. I'd rather try harder to get back into my "time-clock" punching big-money job. I am fighting for a lifestyle of being self-sufficient, teaching my family that it can be done and improving the quality of life for everyone around me in the long-run I think that slow-and-steady is better than pimping myself out to the highest bidder because I will not always be there, or have the mental capacity to earn that kind money and that scares me more than anything.

Thank you for the tips. I would like to believe I can make this business work but I deserved this and maybe I do not have what it takes, I definitely do not have the confidence I used to.

So I want to apologize for saying something that implied IM required promoting less than sincere products. If I truly believed that I wouldn't be trying so hard to make it work. I am guilty of making generalizations and really should not write publicly when under any form of duress-- I hope you and anyone else offended will accept my apology.

I don't mind being a "poster child" for this thread. I hope that it helps somebody who needed a little motivation one way or another, or for someone who thinks this business is a get-rich-quick-scheme. It may be quick for some people but not all.

My tiny success to date has been by helping others, either writing about things that work, writing self-help articles, creating self-help programs (Silverlight and/or ASP.NET MVC / PHP). This is a rewarding career, granted not financially (yet) and as a side benefit I lost 15 pounds by cutting meals to once a day and eliminating booze and soda.

I used to think living well under six figures was very difficult, basically living day-to-day but boy was I wrong. I would venture to say that I could probably live on four figures and still have the basic life necessities. Everything is relative, so right now, a funnel to me besides being something I put gas into the lawn mower with, is an elusive object, one that I cannot find the details about how to construct. Most of the time I try learning how to create one, I get stuck in one so I do know "how" they work and what it feels like to be in one.

So far most of my research has taught me what it feels like to be funneled, but not how to create a funnel. I get the whole squeeze page thing, but how do you get thousands of people into that funnel -- that is the information I am still seeking. I could jump off a cliff if I wanted to, but create a funnel-- so far that information has evaded me even though the concept is simple, the dirty details are not well known-- one cannot just summon traffic on command, or can we? If you can point me towards any info you believe to be accurate, I understand free information may not be the best, I just need a little guidance. If someone is willing to help me figure this out-- they will not be forgotten, and I will happily pool my software development skills with someone who can accelerate my IM learning curve.

I have experimented with ClickBank, and may look at products there until I can complete my software. One of my first websites (wordpress blog) has over 30 thousand email addresses but from what I understand they cannot be legally used for marketing because they are simply blog sign-ups and not double-opt-in-out.

This forum.... very helpful... thank you...

I read a thread on this forum before I went to sleep today. It was really great. I thought it was one of the "stickies" but I can't find it again. It was about the subject of being down-and-out and needing cash fast. Anyway it was very helpful, if only for the motivational aspects. Thanks to all that contributed. I hope some day I can offer something useful to the community-- and I plan on joining when the finances allow.

Are you suggesting there's no native talent that goes into these skills?

• Sure anyone can write, but not anyone can write well. Otherwise it would be easy to become a professional novelist.
• Likewise if anyone could shoot high-quality videos, anyone could be a Hollywood filmmaker.
• And just because anyone can study, doesn't mean everyone learns at the same rate or is as good at the same kinds of subjects. Some people learn math faster. Some people learn history faster. And some people learn everything a little bit -- or a lot -- slower. There's a reason why not everyone has what it takes to get into Harvard and it's not just because they don't study hard enough.
• And sure someone can learn to use a Drag and Drop tool like Leadpages, but that doesn't mean they have any gift for design or experience with creating a good user experience.
• Similarly just because you can hire someone doesn't mean you know anything about managing them. Nor does it mean you know how to hire the right people. Sorry, but outsourcing and management isn't as easy as you'd like people to think or everyone woudl just become CEOs of Fortune 500 companies.

I fully agree that there's a part of entrepreneurship that you can learn, both from study and from experience, but there's also an art to building and running a business. Furthermore some people learn faster and are just naturally better and these people are your competition so you had better have something up your sleeve that you do better than them.

It's a lot like cooking. I could give the same recipe and the same ingredients and tools to 100 different people, none of whom had any cooking experience. Will all 100 of these people's dishes turn out the same or will some taste better than others?

After all...

• Anyone can break some eggs and mix them.
• Anyone can measure and mix some sugar, milk and flour.
• Anyone can butter a pan.

So why would some of these people make better cookies than others? And why would some people's cookies turn out completely inedible?

• Some people might measure one or more ingredients poorly.
• Some people might lose track of time and forget to check the oven.
• Some people might have bad luck and find that their eggs are rotten.
• And some people are just naturally better cooks than others.

Sure, if all 100 people tried enough, they might all learn to make chocolate chip cookies. But the problem is that with a business, you're not making cookies in a vacuum, you're competing against all the other cooks -- and on the internet you might not just be competing with 100 cooks, you might be competing with 1,000 or 10,000. So if you're not a fast learner or don't have that innate "cooking" ability you're going to get burned.

I believe that too. It's all about mindset and EFFORT. I see where the OP is coming from though.

I personally think that the largest hang up is that there are 3 phases to selling online. There is getting traffic. There is qualifying the traffic, and then there is selling. The problem is, if you are lacking in any one of these you will fail. From what I read on this forum, more often than not, it is the product that is to blame for failure. and really that is not the case.

Here is the thing, in each of these 3 phases you have to at least master ONE method of getting that phase to operate.

With Getting traffic. my personal goto method is SEO. I can get results, and generally get them pretty quick. I am also very comfortable with PPC and social media, as well as content marketing. Regardless of the method you choose and or use... you have to be able to produce results in order for the following steps to work.

Qualifying traffic. Specifically relating to what we are actually doing once we have traffic, this is not a subject that is spoken often here on the forum. Regardless of the form, be it a traditional sales funnel ( landing page email capture OTO or e-mail sale ) or a e-commerce model, or adsense all of these are Qualifying the traffic we pass across our offers. We are weeding out those that are interested from those that are not.

Yes, part of this does go back to the traffic step, but that is more in lines with pre-qualifying than qualifying itself.

If you are using a traditional sales funnel and you get that traffic to your landing page and you lay out the offer... here get this, insert your e-mail for instant access. If the "Prospect" inserts their e-mail, they have just qualified themselves as someone that is interested in at the very least the product you are pushing.

This is why it is very important to keep your message clear from the point of obtaining the traffic, to the commitment of the prospect. Any deviation in message will drive your prospects away. I recently had a fellow warrior ask me to look at their page. They were getting decent traffic and not converting. Once I got to the page I saw they had links to get a free "PDF" once you clicked on the "PDF" you were sent off to a sales page for a product. There were no conversions because they were lying to the prospects. Every effort they had placed in getting the traffic, qualifying them... right there was shot.

So now that you have traffic coming in.. you have a method of qualifying that traffic, its time to sell. If you are using your e-mail list to sell, and your efforts are fruitless, stop what you are doing. Now I don't mean stop IM,I mean get yourself a new g-mail account, and go around and get on 10 to 50 other marketers e-mail list. See how they are selling. So... Stop what you are doing and try to mimic what they are doing.

If you are using a e-commerce model and you are not getting sales, you need to again stop what you are doing. Look at the big boy sites IE Walmart, The Gap, TigerDirect and see what they are doing. ( these big companies spend a lot of time and money to make it easy and comfortable for people to purchase online. ) By mimicking what they are doing, you are in essence piggybacking their budget they spend to produce success.

I always suggest, start with traffic.. You have to, without it, you have nothing. get it going before you even concern yourself with the details of the other aspects. Once that is rolling, then work out the conversion process in the qualifying stage. and once that is where it needs to be, then work on closing the deal. Thinking you can work on all 3 of these at the same time is counter productive to say the least.

Over the years I have done some work for large restaurant chains and the like. When they are looking at the possible profitability of a location the average number these big chains look for, is traffic in front of the location to be 20,000+ cars a day. On the internet, Success can be measured by getting 20,000 visitors a month across your offer.

As an example, if you are using SEO as your method for traffic go into Google Webmaster Tools and look at "Search Queries". You are shooting to get the impression count in that 20,000+ range. The same is true with PPC, and the same again in Social Media. Its just kind of one of those universal numbers. ( Again this is not spoken of often if ever )

To now answer the OP's question, dabblers I think are people that think online marketing is easy. And as much as we can sit here and say oh its 3 easy steps, or just set up a funnel or set up a blog and write... we all know its not that easy. If you really don't know what you are doing the choices and options are down right daunting.

What "Niche", what product, what source of traffic, short or long squeeze page, white background, what about video? 3 5 or 7 segment e-mail sales etc etc etc. There are a lot of decisions that have to be made. and we say "Go with your passion, and good luck"

Yeah IM is just not for everyone.

I know people ( family and friends) who see what I do and ask if they can do it too.

But the fact is they just do not have the aptitude. They just flatly do not. That is not being mean or a 'better than thou ' attitude.....it is just the Truth !

Crafting a follow up series with particular wording and having every sentence with some kind of distinctive meaning and persuasiveness to it....well a lot of people in my Life just do not have that ability to do that.

That is not how their brains are hardwired.

So I am just upfront with them and tell them this cannot be done by just anyone.


- Robert Andrew