Excellent post, Michael. Good on you.

Great points. Congratulations!

(And P.S. - I think it's SO MUCH FUN to learn about other businesses, don't you?? I learn about the craziest things while talking to people - for example, one company we work with builds mattresses to customer's height, weight, thickness preference... and will even do 2 different levels of comfort for couples. Fascinating stuff!)

Hi Michael

This is a very valuable post, so thank you for sharing! I would like to ask you, how did you get your foot in the door, so to speak? Did you approach them, did they approach you? How did that happen?

Did they pay you the moment you opened your mouth, or did you offer them an initial free consulation?

I'm curious to know the process behind how you got this client in the first place.

Quite frankly, I'm curious about a lot more, but you'd probably have to turn this into a report

The intro was a personal networking referral. The one advantage to doing this for so long is the number of success stories and contacts. So as quickly as someone can go from hustling business to working their referral base, the better.

But there's no magic to it. I just practice my own BS.

Once we get through the process and reach the tactical levels of activity, it all comes down to the basics of 1) identifying the target listening audience, 2) creating the target message for that audience, and 3) delivering that message via the target medium.

This holds true for prospects, existing customers, employees, investors, loan officers, etc... Everyone's needs are different, and respond to different messages delivered in different ways.



The consulting process itself is a documented system that identifies all of this.

But it would require far more than a report. That wouldn't even scratch the surface.

Michael:

Great points all around. One question I have for you is : What is your "detailed" process that you went through, what angles/scripts did you use to close the deal, and what were there objections (if any) when you popped them the $20,000 fee --- on helping them on the "strategic level" rather than the tactical level?

Much success,

Chris Negro

wow. and then wow.
because of the difference in money exchange rates, your $20 000 fee would pay for half my house.
hell if someone offered to pay me that fee i would marry them.
not sure what i would tell my wife.

but it just goes to show.
you are giving us those figures to make a point, not to "tell" us.

and yet if i told someone local, they would tell me that i am lying.
their bad!

thanks for the explain.
rob

Nice post, but that all sounds like a lot of unnecessary hard work.

If a person learns Internet marketing as well as you've learned your craft, they could make 50k+ in a month, every single month, with a lot less effort than you're putting forth. And without all the meetings, conference calls, commuting, and all that jazz.

I know dozens of people who could make 50k in 30 days or less any time they want just by launching a new site or campaign. THAT'S pretty cool if you ask me.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Just my opinion ... but this IS an *online* marketing forum.

This is the stuff jay Abraham taught me. I use it to help other businesses as well.
I use the extensive questionaire Jay provided me when I became of his protoge program.

I heard Jay Abraham does charge about $5,000 for his ultimate program. Another fellow I admire is Michael Senoff. I think he may be a protoge of Jay Abraham. He has a fantastic lot of audio FREE interviews about making it in the offline business market. Google his name and you will find them. DM me and I'll send you his link. I am not affiliated with either man.

As to 50K in 30 days online, I say, well, I'm a good man so I won't cuss.

Michael speaks truth, not BS. I can tell because I've worked the offline market for many years. It takes cajunas to go out there and put yourself on the line in real life, to eff up and keep going back.

One thing I learned over the years is that genuine sales, I mean the ones that bring you a nice ongoing income from people who trust you, are not 3 hour or 30 day wonders. They are the result of a long line of calls and eventually a friendship. You get the big business, like Michael does, when they trust you.

By the way, how long does it take to get Google to trust you, my friends. Do you think that happens in one year? On or offline, work your butt off, get off the floor when you've been knocked down and keep on. Eventually you will be making a very nice living.

Thanks for the great post, Michael.

Michael, You're so right. Good consulting is about positioning and listening ... and, of course, being a big-picture (aka strategic) thinker and then, being able to actually deliver the results/value.

To put it another way, the move from tactics to strategies is the move from being paid for what you can DO, to being paid for what you KNOW.

Great thread and discussion.

Property management companies who can't manage money, and require a seminar on how to save money on "mowing the lawn"?

In the "real" world most contracts are RFP (unless it's "emergency" maintenance...in which case that step is bypassed) either by the Board of directors (if it is an entity like a Condo/HOA association), or the property manager secures and presents RFP's to the owner), how this company doesn't know this (since they have "commercial" clients), and expect to get property managers to come to seminars (and actually be able to tender a contract to your entity), is beyond me.

What do I win?

Well it's actually a bit more complicated than that.

Yes, commercial property maint. is primarily done on an annualized contract and/or RFP basis.

But not all commercial property owners are major property managers like CBRE, CNL, etc... In fact, there are far more medium to small sized property owners. These smaller owners tend to hire the lowest-end contractors... 2 guys and a trailer. That's great, but then when it comes time to do fertilizer application, arbor work, enhancements, snow & ice removal, the owner generally has to find another guy, and another guy. The list of vendors grows, as does the amount of time it takes to juggle each of them. The property owner may be saving money on working with the lowest end contractor, but they lose the savings in the overhead it requires to manage and maintain multiple vendors for all of the various services.

A part of the USP for my client in the commercial sector is that they are able to offer a full suite of management services, not just your simplification of "mowing the lawn" - yet they are small enough to maintain a personal relationship. Part of this is the sales rep/contract manager is actually the crew supervisor, so they are positioned to know whether the work being done is what was spec'd and bid.

The seminar for medium-to-small commercial clients involves teaching non-business oriented property manager/owners how to reduce property management costs by consolidating vendors to reduce the internal overhead of managing multiple RFP processes, leverage group co-op purchases of materials, and what to watch out for in a property maintenance/landscape contractor (the tricks that guys use to skin you... like over bidding mulch and failing to apply the amount you bought).

We've had 2 so far. 20-30 people in attendence with maybe 1/3 closing within 30 days afterwards, the rest still on our list. Average contract $2K/month.

I'm not sure you won the prize.


More often than you think.

And for certain deals, equity participation in the company.

A former partner of mine, a massive direct mail marketing publisher (largest single owner of Valpak coupon franchises), has traded his services for equity so many times, he now owns a whole bunch of small companies that he helped launch and grow... and eventually just bought out.


Do you have a packaged process/presentation that you deliver to clients? Did the guy ask you to do these specific things, and you responded with that price?

I realize that there's a big gap between our respective scopes, but even in the lower-end view, an entry level consultant should be able to easily get $60-$100/hour for this kind of work.

The landscaping crew guys that work for my client get $480 a week.

I understand your need to create an income, but as you work for your client, I would be thinking seriously about how to do the next job for a lot more money, and how much value I am creating for the money I am being paid. It's relative. If my work creates income and profit of 10 to 20 times the money invested, I should have no problem getting my price. That's why it's important to be choosing your clients as much as it is them choosing you. If they don't understand the value of what you do, and/or they cannot afford to pay you for the effort, then you're better off not doing the work.

I predict that you will quickly become disenchanted with this arrangement.

Summary of this thread

As my wise Mentor once said:

"The Money is not in the 'details' Chris (i.e. tactics/strategies) . The money is in the 'thinking' (i.e. strategic level).

Awesome Post Michael !

Much success,

Chris Negro

Thanks for this post. You're very advanced in this arena, and how you operate is something to aim for.

Brian

You have a lot to learn Young Grasshopper. 1st, let me slap you

That site is your sig has no onpage SEO. It sucks to say the least. Your post is all over the place. Be direct. Are you saying this guy expects you to work for him directly, possibly from his office? Is so, you are on Crack!

He is YOUR client, you don't work for him. You are simply offering your Consultaning services and in return you will hopefully make his phone ring.

The price you can charge is relevant to what the clien can expect in terms of ROI. Can I charge $3,000 a month to a Hot dog stand with one employee and expect the business to stay with me? NO. I can however charge $3k to a lawyer to market his services.

Everything you say keeps saying YOU are the victim. Your client should have no idea if you have 1M in the bank or one penny. Stop telling me how broke you are, you are already defeated.

Hi All and Michael,

First off Michael I agree with everything you say, I would be a fool not to because you obviously know a lot and know what you are talking about. You certainly give us something to shoot for if that is what we are want.

In my town, LA, CA, we have guys who stand on the corner and sell oranges, we have produce markets, markets that sell produce as one out of many items, we have the famous farmers market and we have the central produce market.

If I were to compare myself to one of those I'd probably be the guy on the corner selling oranges.

I can't find the exact quote but you said something to the effect that you were the one who would get my business if I didn't shape up. (my words)

Actually you won't take my business, ever. LOL Not because you couldn't, you could take it with both hands tied behind your back, however, you would not want my business, that is my clients. I on the other hand like my clients and the way I serve them and my customers like what I do for them. Even if sometimes all I do for them is put up a ugly brochure site so they can tell Uncle Bob, "Wanna see my site."

On the rare occasion where someone of your caliber would take one of my customers that would actually be a compliment to me. It would mean I took a client from where you would not touch them and brought them up to your caliber. Sort of like the Boxer's or Entertainer's manager who finds them when they were nobodies and gets dumped by them when stardom hits. They ride off into the sunset with the famous manager who can take them to higher levels and the old manager waves goodbye with a smile on his face and a tear in his eye.

I only post this to encourage others like me who don't have the time, patients or where-with-all to reach your level but still need to keep on keepin on.

Picking up the crumbs and loving it,

George Wright

Thanks for this post Michael.

I was in business-to-business sales for 15 years before getting into IM and this has given me the inspiration to approach a couple businesses who could do with just this kind of consultancy.

In that time I got to know alot of business owners pretty well so the advantage for me will be that I won't have any problems with introductions and it will be easy to arrange to sit down with them for the initial discussions.

Thanks again Michael. Good luck with your future projects.

Steve.

Nice thread ....lots of information here. Maria and her team have a very logical and professional approach to this consulting and for the price , it is a steal. I am not selling anyone on this, just mention it in passing.
thanks guys

Michael,

Thanks for starting such an interesting thread, it has been a pleasure to read it from start to finish. The information is excellent and you have taken some time out of your day to come back and answer the questions that everyone has had. Fantastic Post!

Thanks again,

Joel

I haven't read this entire thread, but I will, and the OP was great!

As for simple services you can do - Which is REALLY SIMPLE and effective, you can start by tracking their offline advertising methods.
If you know how to build a webpage, you can easily do this yourself.

For example and ad in a magazine can be "Get your exclusive special report today! At "Ourwebsite.com/magazine-name"

And from there, track every single offline advertising campaign they do.
You don't even need to make more than one report. Or you can do variations, for example if a direct sale is what you want.

Now you are able to track the ROI of every single offline advertising campaign they do, and it's ridiculously easy too! (Plus, you can still charge a lot, even if it's easy. They will be impressed and more profitable than before pretty quickly)

That was just an example of the many very simple and extremely effective things you can do for business owners

Awesome post Mike! I recently opened up a consulting program so anything related is a must read for me. That's cool you're in the Cincinnati area man, I live on the outskirts :-)

What CRM solution do you recommend?

HI Micheal,

Nice post. I just say it is a traditional approach to drive the businessess by offering consulting services. The only change is to grab the right tool on time. As the INTERNET is the most powerful tool in this arena for any aspect of life. It has increased the power of an ordinary man.
The way you are consulting is a common sense, which is called process approach to improvement.

Thanks again for such a nice post.

Thanks.

Now that's just freaky - I grew up in Anderson Township as well. Michael or Jake, can either of you send some Skyline/Gold Star chili, Larosa's Pizza or Graeters Ice Cream down to Houston? I'm going through withdrawal.

Thanks for the great case study - I look forward to seeing what you roll out Michael!

Dennis

The local mastermind meetings were sort of tabled as everyone got busy with their respective calendars towards the end of summer. I am hoping to get another date scheduled for fall.

Glad you were able to see the approach here. Rather than pushing the internet for the sake of the internet as a tactical measure, taking a very strategic view broadens the picture (and the opportunity).


Hi Blase, great stuff. You can certainly validate the power of going to the strategic level with an overall marketing view for an "offline" client vs. barging through the door with your SEO services like a used car salesman (which seems to be a popular method of marketing for SEO... which is why I pick on it).

This appears to be a similar approach as the HMA - Hidden Marketing Assets system that Mike Senoff & Sensei Richard promotes. It seems to be a pretty solid program, albeit a bit pricey. I think it's even more expensive than the Jay Abraham protege' course ($5800 +/- ??).

The HMA approach is certainly effective, particularly for smaller businesses that aren't very sophisticated beyond the "technician" entrepreneur level... a la Gerber's "e-Myth". Without question, it gets to the core of the low-hanging marketing fruit (so to speak) within the business. However, I find that it still focuses more on the tactical level of "things we do on the battlefield" vs. the campaign we create before we send in the troops and the systems we put into place to report back to us how effective our strategy is working over the long haul.

However, one size does NOT fit all from business sector to sector, geographic market to market, and environment to environment. It's still a sort of "one-trick pony" approach - although an effective one with a lot of market potential.

Keep in mind here, I am absolutely not being critical of the HMA. It's a great system and very successful in helping small businesses round out their marketing approach.

Far too often, marketing people treat marketing like it exists in this magical, utopian fairyland vacuum, somehow or another separate from the rest of the business. It's like Uncle Daddy inbreeding. The more inbred it gets, the weaker the DNA.

But marketing goes so much deeper into the intrinsics of a successful business operation. I try to use an abstracted model that gets applied to each area based on a very simple formula. The core formula can then be applied to any tactical marketing area.

I dig even deeper by implementing marketing strategies within a CPI (continuous process improvement) model roughly approximated on proven TQM philosophies like those taught by Deming, Six Sigma, Lean (Toyota Production Systems), Balanced Scorecard, etc...

I am not sure why marketing was passed over in the wild scramble to implement ISO and TQM models in manufacturing and services industries during the 80's and 90's, but the statistical foundation lends itself very well to continuous improvement.

The reason that I use a TQM approach is the firsthand experience of software product architecture and R&D -- which has to not only exist somewhere in the middle of the classic struggle between the technical engineering camp and marketing camp, but actually deliver results for future success of said company. In order to ensure the future success of a business, the entity must continue to develop and release products and services that are matched to its target market. For those of you who are Geoffrey Moore (Crossing The Chasm) fans, this might sound a little familiar.

The Strategic-level/TQM approach bridges the gap between ALL of the stakeholders... customers, sales, operations, finance, senior management, etc... Marketing should be constantly feeding the owners/managers and/or decisionmakers with a stream of information - not only concerning sales numbers, but through each and every step of the business operation... customer service, product & inventory management, and even finance.

Each of these areas have a push-pull relationship between their own domain and marketing. Each and every one of these areas are ultimately affected by, and in return also affect the production and/or delivery of a product or service to a customer (which is the function of a business, correct? deliver a product or service to a customer in a value exchange?)

Taking the integration side of the HMA system as a comparison, it's one thing to make sure your employees can recite the USP verbatim on demand. It's another thing for them to understand how their job and their execution of the job affects the overall marketing process. Further, it's even more complex to be able to identify trends and adapt a product or service mix based on the feedback and analysis of marketing data, and reallocate financial resources within the operation based on the numbers produced by such a system.

How can a business structure its marketing so it can adapt to market conditions QUICKLY from the top to the bottom of the operation?

Okay, I'll shut up now. I know I am probably making a bunch of IM-only people's heads spin around like The Exorcist.

You Turpin guys... I'll tell you... they're everywhere... Not as bad as St. X. or Moeller guys though.... those guys are like breeding rats...

Actually, I was an Anderson HS guy...but I agree about those St X and Moeller guys.

Dennis

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