Why Are Some of the Internet Marketing Coaching "Gurus" Bailing?

I must be living in a cave. Perry Belcher is the only one I've heard of that isn't selling to the "IM" crowd anymore. Who else gave it up?

Can you give us some examples of these "gurus"?

I monitor a number of marketers and they all seem to be going strong.

Then it's probably a good time to get in!

Hello,
there is always the next level in any field of work.
If you have been doing internet marketing for ten years
or so and you see the next big thing coming up why not
shift gears for the better.

If some choose to give an explanation or make a video take it at face value
and just wish them good luck.
Lou Diamond

Mike Filsime just announced he isnt going to do any more IM information products, hes going to concentrate on technolgy and software solutions like his new twitter application

staying in IM just changing the emphasis on his product creation

I don't blame them for quitting.

Must be pretty soul-destroying dealing with customers who expect everything to be handed to them on a plate for $29 - $67.

And then 20% - 40% demand their money back after 2 minutes to 60 days of purchase.

Yups you're right I too have recently encountered about three IM "old timers" saying they'll be focusing on other things..

Honestly, I noticed that the trend started before December 1. In fact I even saw one video where the IM "old timer" said that he is bailing out due to the new FTC guidelines...

He said he had no way to declare the average result that people would get from his product because thousands purchased it, and so was selling it one last time and then take it out of the market as he focus on other things.

I just forgot the name

Omar

Frank Kern stopped teaching internet marketing about 4 years ago. Ed Dale too. They said something like "we don't teach internet marketing anymore, but hey, why don't you buy our newest internet marketing course even though we just told we don't teach internet marketing anymore" lol.

Being a "guru" is his business.

Apparently, so did Howie.

Maybe a few of them are sick of being bashed and whined about all over the net.

Frankly, for some of them, I wouldn't blame them if I had to take the kind of crap that they take.

I know there is one that people call a guru and he pops in here once in a while. In over two years, every single thread I've ever seen him make ends up with several people accusing them of just about everything under the sun. And then there are those who wonder why some of the big names don't frequent the forum

Tina

Kern may be retiring from the normal IM approach but he isn't retiring from being in the marketplace. He is going to do more one on one coaching for a nice hefty up front fee and piece of the action.

You can only sell so many How to Make Money products. You don't get rich mining for gold you get rich selling shovels, tents and blue jeans. Services provide continuity and give you much greater leverage.

Kern made the comment in a video once that there is only so many ways to say
1) Find a niche
2) Do keyword research
3) Make your customer an offer with value
4) Test, adjust and replicate

It's just a matter of broadening your horizons.

I kind of like Rich Schefren's model. He has contacts all around the world and it's used in marketing of course...but it's usable in just about any biz.

I mean the reality is that IM is simple if you focus on just getting offline businesses websites. The IM niche is crazy...

However, it's also a great market and the one I focus on because I truly enjoy taking someone with nothing and then answering their question only to notice a paypal email saying they bought something from me.

I love learning something and teaching...maybe I should be an offline professor haha...

But seriously...these guys retire probably b/c they're bored.

Anyone who's purchased something from Frank Kern knows the guy's brilliant. He sent me one offline package of cookies a while back b/c I bought MC2 early this year. No marketer has ever sent me a damn thing before that...plus I got offline packages and you better believe i read what he sent...

He was selling some 100k a year plus royalties package...I would've considered it if I was solely focused on IM...the man is just brilliant.

Our business is easily transferable and I think you're just seeing that with these guys retiring.

Cheers,

Brad

Like others have said I just thing that they are going to the "next level" or following a certain passion of theirs.

Filsaime said in his video that technology is his true passion and having the assets that he has now can fulfill this passion.

I don't know about the rest of you guys... but, there comes a time in everyone's life when you just want to do something different. I've changed careers a couple of times in my life already.

As child (and young adult) I never had any idea what I wanted to be when I grew up. I switched my major 4 times in college... from environmental engineering, to mathematics, to computer science, and then to psychology... and then back to computer science.

I've owned my own computer repair and IT services business now for almost 10 years. At first, I was absolutely obsessed with technology, how it works, why it works, how I could tweak it and make it do back flips... and especially how to sell all of those features and benefits.

However, now I am pretty much bored with it. I still do it. I brings me a nice paycheck, and business keeps getting better (even through the recession).

Honestly, I am thinking of selling my business... or walking away from the business altogether if I can't sell it.

Am I crazy?

Maybe, but that's beside the point.

The real issue here is that networking computers, repairing laptops and recovering data from bad sectors does not interest me any longer. Because of my lack of interest, it suddenly feels like WORK. I have to force myself out of bed in the morning to meet with clients. It sucks.

I've been interested in MMO for a while... and a few years back I had some pretty good success with affiliate marketing (web hosting mostly), but I really didn't see the potential at the time.

I became re-acquainted with IM a few months ago and it was like an answer to my prayers. I'm already earning some money (not enough to live off of yet, but still). But, more than the money, it is something that interests me. I sincerely enjoy it.

So, anyway... before I write a novel here...

My point is: I think that many people get to a point in life in which they think that they are ready to start the next chapter. So, maybe these gurus ARE sick of dealing with noobs who expect to get rich by plopping down their $67 and watching a few videos. I know that I'd get tired of that REAL quick.

Or, maybe they are just tired. Perhaps they have decided that they have earned enough money for this life and are ready to work on achieving some "spiritual wealth". After all, you can't take it with you, right?

Looks like I've been living in a cave. Oh well, back to work for this kid.

*Yawn*

When are you guys going to realize aint nobody retiring from
a got damn thing.

You guys realize in the big picture these guys really don't
make that much money. Yea to a struggling marketer
10 million in revenue seems like alot in business.

But after expenses and you talk about take home profit
these guys probably see 2-5 million tops go into their
bank account IF THAT.

Only in IM would you hear business owners saying something
as stupid as "I'm retiring".

What other field do business owners spend years building
it up to a million dollar level, only to retire with enough to
last 2 years tops.

I'll believe it when they delete their huge lists.

Daniel

Like Kiss or Cher, IM gurus always claim retirement, but come back within a few months...

Filsaime figured out the real game.

The real money is in technology services.... just like it was in 1994.

Quick, name me a how to get rich internet marketing guru that has taken his internet marketing business public with an IPO.

Nay... name me a how to get rich internet marketing guru that has obtained venture capital funding for their internet marketing business.

I certainly can't think of any.

See... as much nonsense that gets bantered about in this industry, the internet marketing community as it exists here on the WF and other similar places, did not invent the internet. They did not invent or perfect marketing on the web. They did not invent or perfect search engine optimization or copywriting. They did not invent or perfect squeeze pages or email permission marketing. They did not invent affiliate marketing. They did not invent information products. Etcc... etc.... etc....

Also, as much as this cloister of myopic people would like to think... corporate entities are not these giant organizations full of ignorant morons that cannot think.

I have laughed and laughed at some of the idiotic statements that get spewed on this forum (I suspect largely by young people that have very little, real business experience). It's sort of like an Amway meeting, where everyone nods in agreement with the circus ringmaster at the front of the room chanting, "We all hate our day jobs don't we..." right before rushing into the street armed with the sales pitch of trying to appeal to the nearest fellow buffoon that will buy into their parroted crap.

Its like the Adwords phenomena that many gurus used to use to sell products with ie spending $50K a month to make $15K profit.

The ROI is not that great. The lifestyle of Internet marketing is one that burns you out quickly.

At the end of the day all everyone really wants is to make enough money to retire rich somewhere over the rainbow. Others that are motivated by fame or status and being the IT Guru, well there is a high price to pay for that sort of lifestyle.

As we seeing it is not a nice place to be - Perry Belcher himself has left due to the intrusion upon his privacy and the exposure that can have serious detrimental effects on not only you but your family too.

Im on filsaimes list and watched the video.
What nobody has said is as his retirement package he is giving away 10,000 copies of the 7 figure code for free.
But,you have to pay shipping,so we know its going to be higher than actual shipping.
I mean,i sell on ebay and could put that package in the big flat rate box probably for $11.00.And ship it anywhere that has a 5 digit postal code.
Ill see how much he charges when its offered as im on the announcent list.
Then lets see about the continuity.He said in his video hes going to put more effort into his paydotcom site,affiliate sales,membership sites of his,and services and i beilieve software membership sites.
I dont know about anyone elses plans,but have heard of the other retirees.
Matt

Yeah I have seen a lot of those as well, I lean towards just another tactic to move on to something else that is really the same thing just called something different. lol

Let me add Sherman Hu to the list. He doesn't want to spend so much time "doing" anymore so he can spend more time with his family...but I think he's doing some kind of giveaway as a parting gift. At least that's what I read right before I hit the unsubscribe link...

Add the "retirement" strategy to your marketing notes... LOL

BTW, I'm retiring too...

Hmm, never thought of that before, maybe I should have a deeper research done on that.

your a sad bunch of people...

Mike never once mentioned retiring from IM... Just from creating information products.

And the email and announcement is pretty simple really, and if you were really marketers instead of bashers you would be comfortable with, "hes creating buzz to make one last big splash from the decision"

Robert

Teaching people marketing is just one niche... they may just be working on other niche markets... Think about it... What do a lot of them really have left to talk about?

They're still marketers, just not marketing to the make money crowd anymore. Once you have a strong business other windows of opportunity open for you...

Maybe they want to jump into to things like CPA; you sometimes hear or even see affiliate marketers blog where they're showing you how they have regular $3,000 - $5,000 days...

We all heard about the whole Ayman $100k per day (even though I'm pretty sure he said he usually make $20-$30k on regular days)... So if big time affiliates are pulling numbers like that, imagine what the merchants are making...

Branching out into broader niche markets equals more money and there's a lot of evergreen products to create instead of heaving to come up with new ideas for a product launch every 4 months.

I knew it, it's all over. I got in too late....

I look at it this way, Some Retire, Quit, Move on or whatever it is. This is normal, At the same time new people are coming in. This is a fact of life and shouldn't worry anyone.

I get about 2 e-mails a week from the "retired Howie".
I had an email from Frank just last week plugging some Wordpress theme, and as far as I know MC monthly is still going fine with a ton of members paying a hefty monthly.
I unsubbed from Mike F's so no idea what he's doing / not doing.

These guys are already so rich in real terms, why bother screwing around doing a couple of hundred grand per launch and all the headaches and customer service and refunds and support and JV organising and product creation and so on.

They can do high end coaching $25-$50k type stuff, get 10 good students , work hard with them on rev share and acheive the same if not better with far less hassle.

These guys have their fingers in a lot of honey pots now, hell if Howie for example is even 1/10th as successful at driving traffic as he claims why the hell keep bothering with IM, he should be creaming $100k a day from CPA alone.

Perhaps they just came to the conclusion that concentating on other business formats whilist playing some golf , driving the ferrari and going surfing was infinintatly more interesting than re-spinning the same content for the 10th time into a new product.

Who knows, but so far , the "retired" guys don't seem very retired anyway.

Well, there are people who are moving in a different direction but there are others that are focusing on this more and more.

I think it is a decision you make at a certain point of your life.

Thanks!
^PV Reymond

Why do people worry about what other people are doing? Get to work!

Dont believe the hype I reckon I think so many of these emails come through .. its all publicity, you cant be looking to turn $15 mill a year next year and NOT sell product in some way... just my 2 cents

Man, can we just forget about "gurus" already? Most of the gurus people always talk about are not really active here at the forum. I get much better help and tips from getting on the email lists of those here on the forum. Sure, some of the "gurus" probably start a thread here now and then, etc. But most of them do not really interest me, to say the least.

The successful IMers are probably just changing their focus. (I refuse to use the word "guru" any more to describe successful IM people...it sounds like the leader of a hippie retreat back in the 60's!)

I really don't think the FTC regs have anything to do with it. These guys are savvy enough to know how to work within the guidelines without it hurting their businesses in the least.

Or, they could just be retiring and laughing all the way to the bank. That's where I want to be someday...comfortable, happy and secure.

I like Mike Filsaime's method of "moving on"

I am not interested in his offer but:

-He's still in the same niche just focusing on a different service.
-He offers a valuable course in return for your email address and for you to pay a small shipping fee. Most people will consider that more than a fair trade for their email address
-He notes that while he is moving away from IM he'll still be around to sell you products and add value to your IM education.

I'm not interested, but I respect his methods.

Slick marketing in my book. Kudos to him.

LOL... I just spent fifteen minutes reading this thread, and, uhm.... well....
Wow. You know, I've been a 'lurker' member here for over a year, purchased a lot
of products and through my passive observations, have learned a lot about many
of the folks here. There is nothing like watching from a clear vantage point to give
one a clear perspective.

But think about this - over 15 minutes now, reading a conversation by otherwise
intelligent marketers speculating over the retirement, or not, of other marketers whose
decisions likely have very little bearing at all on their own businesses. Which, I might
add, in many cases may not yet be at the even "$2M - $5M year" mark, that is supposedly
not too much. Ugh...

I also feel compelled to comment to Robert that you are correct - the old school
sales managers of dying corporatations did and still do compell sales people to sell
to the point of massive, if possible, refunds and cancellations. I used to sell for them.

That is just another sadly true fact - but, from a consumers standpoint and even
from a business standpoint... that doesn't mean its the best or the right way to go
about sales. I also think that the repercussions of such practices have created a really
bad mark on the sales industry in general.

In fact, you may have hard-core used car salesman using their push tactics on
internet marketers, soaking the industry dry, then retiring to more profitably niches
if those tactics still worked... uhm... err... wait a minute, that sounds vaguely familiar, eh?....

Cudos for the observation and apparently high-opinion of such practices - I'll stick to
my less than $2M annually (for now) and a good nights sleep personally...

Now.. how many of you just spent over twenty minutes reading this thread with no
website up or product to sell or money coming in this week? LOL...

"Retiring guru's" ROFLMAO... too funny.

Respectfully...

I'll say this much. Based on my own personal experience, some of these "gurus" deserve the bad press they get in www.RipoffReport.com. I suggest anyone who depends on a "guru" for anything listen to that a song by Living Color called, "Cult of Personality."

i think we all should too then if they are.

seems like they all got a tip of some upcoming Crackdown or something.

This is happening for a VERY simple reason:

The money is in continuity products. Continuity information products, however, have a high attrition rate and are very time-consuming to keep fresh with new content every month.

Hosted software products & services, however, keep customers paying for the service month after month, with no work required on the provider's part other than a helpdesk. It's truly "set it and forget it."

I'm moving in this direction as well. I have programmers working on some very cool services that will be ready early 2010. Continuity info products just aren't worth the headache.

I just popped into the forum to see what is going on. I havent been here in quite a while. However, I too quit Internet Marketing to other Internet Marketers back in 2007.

Why?

It was Simple. There was just more money to be made in my "real" businesses and IM just started to become a distraction for such a small return. I still enjoy helping others make money online, I just dont do it for a living anymore. I do it because I like to help and give back to people trying to succeed. There is real joy in doing that because you want to and not because you are out to get something.

I think it is great that people like Mike F. are moving on to bigger and better..

I think the new FTC guidelines play a part in this - not to say that the gurus are running scared, because most of them know what they're doing. But you can discuss FTC stuff here: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ffiliates.html

It's pretty obvious that once one of these guys gets an idea, a bunch of the others rush to do the same thing.

I think that many people have starting points in their careers. And as they achieve their goals, they are always looking for other challenges.

The FTC rules really shouldn't affect those who are factual in what they offer. It is sort of like the commercials on TV that say "this is a commercial" or "closed course" or "actor portrayal" and so on.......

There will always be a market for the IM world. New people are always coming onto the net and many have little idea of what they are doing.....so, there will remain opportunities for those with the answers for those questions.

It's not just gurus who are retiring from selling IM courses. I have several friends who aren't as well known as some of the major gurus, but have been doing ok selling "how to" courses for making money who are also getting out of it.

Part of it has to do with the new FTC rules, but it's more about the fact that it's harder and harder to sell in the IM niche. Take a look at the WSO forum, for example. I saw a few WSOs get pushed down near the bottom of page one within a couple of hours of posting. It's crazy how many people are trying to cater to this one niche every day.

The IM niche is relatively closed. Most people who would be in the market to buy "how to make money" products end up in a few places. The WF and a few other places are where most of them land.

In other niches, there isn't such a massive gathering of people to be marketed to. So naturally a lot of newbies flock straight to the IM niche, because they can simply peddle their wares to a gathering of thousands of potential customers in one place.

Even if you can find a large forum in a niche outside of IM, they don't have a "WSO" forum where you can post to sell your stuff. Most of them highly discourage advertising. So it's not as easy to reach customers in other niches if you're a newbie and you don't know what you're doing as it is to just throw together a package of some sort and post a WSO or whatever.

Once you reach the level of knowledge that some of the gurus have, it's potentially more profitable to branch out into other stuff.

Plus, I've read several times recently that people who are "friends" with some of the "gurus" have been told that the recent high-ticket launches have not fared as well as hoped. In fact, I've outright heard that a few of them pretty much failed completely. That might have something to do with a few of the ones who are leaving.

If you've purchased any of the high-ticket launches in the last couple of years only to see them given away as free bonuses shortly after, I think you have the answer.

The big, easy money just isn't there anymore. Customers are cheaper and demanding higher quality everyday.

Otherwise, who would give away an in-demand, high-priced product?

Personally, I question some of the numbers I hear... when someone tells you how big their list is, that doesn't mean anything. It's how big their BUYERS list is and a lot of times, it isn't that big.

You also hear big revenue numbers thrown around for these launches. But after affiliate payments, how much are they really taking home?

I just don't believe the numbers are that big... especially not when compared to other types of businesses.

If you compare what some of these guys make (or say they make) to most people's salaries, the numbers may sound big. But if you compare their earnings to what most companies make, they're not even on the map.

Some of the "retirements" may be due to wanting to do something else. But I'm betting most of them have to do with money.

I am going to quit IM and focus on trying to date super models.....

I bought and paid for the shipping of the 7-Figure Code.There were upsells along the way...

A few random thoughts ...

1. When money is no longer a big enough motivator (because you've finally made some), you tend to ask yourself "Ok - now what do I REALLY want to do". The trick is finding something you truly enjoy that will still allow you to make the kind of money you're used to ...

2. There are more "underground" affiliate marketers that make 7 figures a year than there are "gurus" that make 7 figures a year. A LOT more. If you want a lifestyle business, the former is the way to go.

3. Having made some money, some are moving on to create "real" businesses. The kind that get bought out for 8-10 figures. If you don't want/need the freedom of a lifestyle business you might as well build a "real" business.

4. Being a "guru" is hard work. If you don't make a whole lot of money now you might think the money they make should make it all worthwhile, but believe me, that's not the case.

5. Like Reese said, when you ARE the product/business, you are limited. You might be able to make good money, but it's still not a great business model. All you really have is a high paying job.

6. Many of the MMO "gurus" have known all along that what they do is not "cool." A tiny handful actually put out great products and care about their customers, but most don't. Deep inside, most of them feel "dirty" and are ashamed about what they do. Now that they have made some easy money they can move on to more "legit" things.

7. A few are just too burnt out to continue and truly are retiring with what they have. They can drop a mil in cash on a nice house, and just do little projects here and there and live out the rest of their lives being "happy" and doing what they want - play golf every day, travel, or whatever that might be.

I am getting a lot more email from some of the "retired" folks. Seriously though, I think a lot of people who do well in this field are itching to try new things and do new things. That is what made them successful in IM. Moving on gives them the chance to do new stuff.

I am putting plans in place to potentially sell one of my retail sites within a year or so. I expect to get quite a bit of money for it, if similar site sales are anything to go by. It is a great business, but after almost 4 years I am growing weary of it and want to move on. As a serial entrepreneur, the challenge for me is in creating a business. I get bored with running one.

I suspect many of these guys feel the same way.

It's a natural process of change and growth of the industry.

You can list at least 10 'names', both male and female that seem to have disappeared into the ether. The internet is no longer what it used to be and the average person can have a business that looks and feels (and might be even better) than what the gurus had/have.

The same graphic designers create sites and mini-stes for others. THe same copywriters write copy for anyone who can pay for it and at affordable rates etc

Growth isn't a bad thing and let's welcome along the new generation ...

I'll believe it when I see it. Mark Joyner left IM (apparently), but you wouldn't be able to tell from the number of email he sends to people on hist list.

Speaking of which, I have been trying to unsubscribe from his list for about 2 weeks now. Anyone know how?

Hav

My point was that the "gurus" won't be able to continue doing what they've been doing, and in order to be FTC compliant they would have to do things in a way that will decrease sales.

I'm pretty sure we can all agree on that and I don't need to outline all the scammy ways that "gurus" promote each others' products, the lies, the deception, giving their "highest endorsement" when they haven't even reviewed the product, etc. etc. etc.

(Not pointing any fingers at anyone in particular, especially you John. I appreciate your participation in this thread and I think you're a pretty stand up guy. I just wish you would have taken my advice about BlogRush!)

But if you don't think that Kern, who has been "ruined" by the Feds once already, is thinking about this as he decides where to steer his business going forward, well ... I'd have to disagree. He'll be the first to tell you he doesn't want anything to do with the Feds ever again.

I disagree that it's the buyers' fault in any way. Sure I agree people shouldn't be so gullible, but it's human nature and that's not going to change. The "blame" can rest only on those that are using the deceptive tactics to sell product.

So basically the IM niche isn't that easy to stay constantly fresh in, the workload/hassle to joy quotient doesn't stack up any more in comparisom to other business models .

Being the focus of attention is cool for a bit but eventually the scrutiny and constantly being in the limelight in order to make the bucks gets tired and frankly and there's more to life than teaching people how to make money online.

Bailing IM to do other more enjoyable things seems perfectly sensible , life > money.

Wish em all the best.

(The FTC stuff isn't that hard to get around for honest marketers , I don't see it as logical reasoning as to why people like Reese would get out).

I don't see why people find this so strange.

I know many people join in IM niche because of promises of quick easy money, but most realise that any sustainable income requires a decent level of focus and effort.

When you sit down and think about what's really important in life - it's nothing to do with sitting at your PC or making info products - it's about your relationships and how you spend your time.

Finding that balance between doing what you love and paying the bills is what takes up most peoples lives.

If you finally had enough money to not need to do anything for the money - what would YOU do with your time?

I've been doing a lot of changing myself in the last few months based on asking myself these same questions.

Since IM is a skill that can be used to support almost anything, I can't see myself not doing IM, but bringing more music back into my life is definitely a big focus for me now and building in a way to make money doing a music related activity is part of my plans.

I love helping people, so I'll still do some IM coaching but probably transition much of that over to life coaching later in the year and the IM stuff will end up just as activity that promotes my businesses.

IM is fun and interesting, but with so much mis-information and greed around, it's getting harder and harder to actually get through to people that need help and help them without them always arguing "but xxx told me to do it this way" to everything you say.

I'll probably do some seminars for local businesses and teach people one-on-one but only because I enjoy it.

Andy

:-) Maybe they are just trying to be nice and let some other people make money from internet marketing haha

I personally don't see myself working with the IM crowd for ten years. Suits always seem to catch up eventually...

My goal is to use IM as a spring board to other fields, like real estate per instance...

I know it might be even more risky in terms of legal woes than IM, but that's what I always wanted to do...

I think you should take what John Reese said at face value. If you were in the IM niche and selling IM products you would probably get bored of it after awhile. You are teaching the same thing over and over again. You would eventually want to try something different or change your business model expand find new challenges.

Then also maybe the niche is changing. There have been some failed launches this year. Stompernet being the biggest name that flopped. And continuity in the IM is not that easy. You are appealing to what are going to be a lot of bottom of the barrel people - people desperate to make money and people who are basically losers that will buy courses and never use the information. All of that translates into high refunds and then of course personal attacks and bashing as people blame others for being losers themselves.

So I think it could be a tough niche to make money with continuity, you get a lot of refunds, and after you do it for years you are going to run out of new things to teach.

So at some point you probably would want to get involved in other things. I think it would be extremely difficult to bulid a continuity business selling information in the IM niche. Software and services would be fairly easy - but info you are going to need masses of people to make it a huge business. Biggest is probably Glazer/Kennedy but I bet they have a huge turnover of people too.

I'm in the stock market niche and sell a "continuity" membersip. My refund rate is about 10% and have customers who stay forever, very little turnover. But people are in the stock market for life and it isn't a one shot teach you this info deal, but information about the news and market which is always changing so it is different than IM - plus the people have more money and generally are more serious. I bring this up for comparison sake.

Maybe they have made enough money and they are just tired of doing business online that they want to "retire" and do something else and not online.

Not everyone wants to do this forever after they got the money out of the way and they can retire comfortably.

Tal

They are just not as effective a Guru anymore, they can't even make a newbie earn a small portion of what they used to earn so they are getting slam by newbies from all direction and their refunds rate are also increasing as ever.
Their list is also becoming non responsive as they keep spamming rubbish after rubbish hoping we kept on buying. I just hate all these Gurus- so far yet to meet one who is really sincere.
Have you seen any guru who did a follow up to those that bought their wso or product and asked them, about their progress? What are the difficulties they are having, how much are they making right now after following their manual, why are they not following what is taught in the manual and what can they offer to Help?

Most of them just don't, some that do are just doing it for formality sake. So I think All this old timers should just hang their gloves, we need new breed of Gurus who are sincere and responsible because people look up to them hoping to be successful.

This is Just my opinion and directed to all Gurus because I have been living in a cave following them.

Yeah, i think it has to do with this 'FTC' thing. But if that's the case, it's nothing to be worried about. I believe the time to get in is now! The IM world is still a very huge market for profit, all you have to do is be honest about your claims and give quality stuff.
Breaking News: I'm not quitting, so don't be afraid

Someone made a good point in that it's pretty darn difficult to build a long-term business, or do anything based on continuity, when your market is MMO newbies. We all know that the majority don't make it and "give up" in one way or another within a very short time.

Yeah you can make a lot of money off newbies who only stick in your continuity program for 3 months when you have 500 a day signing up for it, but in the end you're not really adding much value to the world so unless you just don't care it's definitely not an ideal model.

(MMO newbies are GREAT to build a lead-gen business around though since there's a constant stream of them, that if anything, is only going to keep growing!)

On the flip side, if your target customer is more advanced - the kind that buy $1000 courses - there's only so much you can sell them. As others have said, all aspects of making money online can be boiled down into 1 good course and after that you're really just doing them a disservice by selling them more info.

I have a feeling a lot of people commenting have a "lack mentality" and resentment against the rich- now could that lead to some self sabotage? ?

I say screw em'!! I'll be your new guru! j/j!

I think it can be attributed to an article I read in a mail order rag awhile back. The article was titled "Are You Niched Too Tight?" by Anne Marie Baugh.

She points out that niche marketing is the buzzword that has vibrated across the internet for a few solid years and is a proven strategy that has worked. However, as with all things, times have changed and if you're niched in too tight, it may hurt or even fatally wound your business.

She goes on to say that environments change and so do markets and marketing strategies... and now is the time to widen your peripheral vision and begin to market to other niches.

Diversifying your revenue stream allows you to create tremendous stability for your business and you will not be depending on one industry or niche for income... which is smart business for long term success.

As Anne further pointed out, every niche or industry has it's cycle. It may be four years up and four years down. If you don't want to be stuck on an industrys' or niches' economic roller coaster... it's time to seek out new ventures to explore.

The point is, whether it's IM or some other niche, one literally needs to step out of the box that we all put ourselves into and build a plan that incorporates the wider vision. You don't have to necessarily quit your niche, but at the same time, do not get niched in so tight you can't see the bigger picture.

FACT: When someone reaches a peak period in his career or age-wise and maybe can't perform as well as he used to, he retires or desires to (he may come back if and when he feels renewed or reinvigorated or just plain bored with whatever else he chose to do. That's he's prerogative.

When you are conceived your growth starts, and doesn't stop until a particular stage, sometime in your teen years. Then you start growing in other ways mentally and emotionally. As for working, your energy starts too ebb as you grow older and you slow down or just WANT to slow down and REST after so many years working hard.

You want to REST a bit and just ENJOY life.

Finally, you will die and seize to exist physically. You just got fully retired.

So, this question is like asking why are all the old timers in the real world dying!!!

Oh Lord the heavens must be falling.

Seriously, I wish more sensible discussions would prevail.

Frankly, that would be time better spent. Some really good discussions are ignored (I see a lot of those threads) for sensational ones like this.

I hardly post to these types of convos except when I've read through and haven't really seen anyone say what it so plain obvious like "IT IS PART OF LIFE you know"?

I mean really.

As for guru bashing, I don't even know what that means, are folks saying when someone is blatantly feeding innocents horse manure as a delicacy no one should say a word?

That's an interesting angle. If I was doing something wrong I would welcome the opportunity to defend myself and be corrected or be absolved if I was right and wrongly accused. I understand though that these can get out of hand so maybe best left out of forums and generally even (in some rare cases).

But frankly I would not keep silent when I see blatant misleading comments about marketing that I know will only cause pain for some of the folks I'm trying to help.

If you call that bashing that's your view you're welcome to it.

If you THINK I am misleading people, PLEASE speak up so I can correct myself or prove myself right.

I know a lot of folks on here think of me as being against gurus, well, they're wrong.

There are a lot of top dogs I truly admire and love, Allen Says (not because he owns this forum but because that guy is a really stand up guy as far as all my relations with him business-wise only have gone-he doesn't BS or mislead and gives up the best stuff for pennies or free and in brief reports, want to be like that someday, Dan Kennedy, Joe Vitale, Sam Robbins, Tony Robbins, the late Jim Rohn, Jimmy D Brown, a few others I can't remember now, those I speak up against are some of those I personally know behind the scenes (or I know from experience they are just blowing smoke up people's rears), who are feeding the public with stuff that really is falsified or made up to look prettier and they don't care who gets hurt as long as they make money.

I have had some of them approach me to do unethical stuff and because I refused turned their backs on me. When I see folks like that leading a crowd of unsuspecting people I WILL speak up. Sue me if you think that's bashing, I'll see you in court.

Otherwise, be quiet as you always are... Martin Niemoller's famous quote comes to mind at this juncture.

By the way I'm not advocating attacking people publicly if you have a gripe try to fix it in private and give the person (who is human and therefore flawed by default) a chance to make amends. If they stubbornly choose not to, they turn you away or try to pull the wool over your eyes you should speak out after giving them the chance privately to correct themselves and they failed to do so.

Doing otherwise is encouraging corruption in one form or the other.

In the end handle it as you see fit, I'm not perfect, in fact I am FAR from perfect, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't speak up when I see blatant injustices. I personally welcome being approached if you have a gripe, how else do we make sure things continue to go smoothly and are corrected where and when necessary if we leave things to rot before our eyes?!

As for retiring, I will eventually do so myself one day when the energy and passion is all but totally spent (OR totally spent) or when/if my better half makes demands on my time to make time for just us etc, if people think that's being gimmicky after all said and done, then they are welcome to their thoughts. That too, is part of life.

Wishing all he really retiring gurus a well deserved time away from the "grind"--because contrary to popular opinion the Im business can sometimes and even often be that---a daily grind--no matter how automated and EASY it gets, it's still has to be run by humans and deal with humans so it MUST contain flaws that will ebb your energies one way or another.

Nuf said

Kunle Olomofe

The IM community is small fry compared to the monster category Mike Filsaime is chasing. He wants to be bigger than Paypal. Just a small slice of that market will be very lucrative. He is ambitious and loves a challenge.

One other Guru is chasing a public float for his IM entity because he has business building in his blood.

Others are chasing the mega large personal development / wealth mindset market because they see the Internet Marketing niche is maturing enough to take them mainstream and they can cash in on reputation.

If nobody is opening house list emails anymore, PPC accounts are frozen, FTC regulations are tightening and the consumer market is getting wise to quality and tired of re-hashes and they demand accountability then it is a great time to move on to new missions.

Filsaime wants to be bigger than PayPal? That's pretty ambitious.

There are always challenges. For example, one of his "new" sites is PayPeopleOnline.com. Sounds like a somewhat boring but needed service that he is charging for.

The problem is that another company with deeper pockets just added the exact same functionality to their free accounting platform today.

This other company has close to 10 million in funding and they are way ahead of Mike already. So I'd say his PayPeopleOnline project is already dead before it got started.

That's a big problem with offering services ... like info I guess. I don't know if they got the idea from Mike's site or not, but the minute you launch something that doesn't have a high barrier to entry you'll have one or more people copying your cool new service immediately.

It's actually more of a problem with services because "big" companies don't mess around selling MMO info products...

Whenever I'm asked if I wanna be rich and famous, I say, "Rich but not famous."

Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, Willie Crawford, etc. are just people too. Very successful, but at the end of the day human beings like the rest of us.

If they're ready to move on to bigger better things, let 'em.

We all have our own path to follow.

Is this correct? i really dont thing they are bailing...

Sounds like Frank Kern is starting to use his expertise to help individual offline companies and people with their IM. A few clients per year at 100K upfront and a percentage of sales is not a bad way to go.

FTC laws. They got to back their sht up now, which many cant.

Actually, I heard of Howie Schwartz related to his real gig - venture capital and venture capital events...before I knew of his IM stuff.

And as for Filsaime, I don't know him but the IM market is nothing like the big scale software market. IM is small potatoes. I saw him talking about the issues they had with TweetGlide, where he said that they had 1,000+ sign ups/new members in a day and it caused scalability problems. The day I read that, I had worked on a project where we had 52,000+ sign ups into a software product in an HOUR. I'm not knocking Mike or TweetGlide, but 1,000 users is NOTHING in the world of big time IT.