How to tell if a ClickBank vendor is robbing you of commissions (and what to do about it)

reapr 15 years ago

Have you considered refining you sales page and linking directly to their check out page on CB?
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- robs132 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by reapr
  
  Have you considered refining you sales page and linking directly to their check out page on CB?
  
  Is this possible? Cant you only link to the page that the vendor selects? otherwise you could just skip straight past the opt in in the first place.
  
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Kelly Verge

15 years ago

If their sales page were lacking, that would be an option. In this case, however, the only thing lacking on their part is character.

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SuzanneH

15 years ago

Did you use your own affiliate link to get to the vendor's website during this test? Sometimes a vendor will show a different landing page depending on where the visitor is coming from. Also, if a visitor goes through your aff. link, signs up for the course, and then clicks a link in the vendor's e-mail, you should get the sale providing that the vendor doesn't put their own affiliate link to restuff the cookie, and that the visitor is still using the same computer (and didn't click on somebody else's link, etc.).

Suzanne

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Alexa Smith

Banned 15 years ago

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Kelly Verge

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

By the way, "robbing" really isn't right: they are actually allowed to do this, you know? Clickbank's view is that once the lead has opted in to the vendor, the affiliate has no further protection against losing the subsequent sale (and to be honest, I don't blame them for that, because they wouldn't be able to police/enforce any other system, would they?).

True. I should have said "robbing." It's really more about how it feels.

My concern is that you may well be "putting yourself in the wrong" by copying and reproducing their opt-in material without their permission.

I take it quite a bit further than simply copying and reproducing. Of course, in this niche if two people write a "How to do XYZ" course, they will be structurally similar anyway. There's really only one way to do it.

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Gail Sober

15 years ago

I recently went through the cb marketplace pretty hard looking at several hundred sales pages (closer to a thousand actually).

It was very eye opening what some vendors are doing to switch out referral id's and avoid paying affiliate commissions.

For example, you wouldn't think that clicking a privacy policy, contact me or view more testimonial link should overwrite your referral id but that is something that some people are doing now, among other things.

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Trader54

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Gail Sober

For example, you wouldn't think that clicking a privacy policy, contact me or view more testimonial link should overwrite your referral id but that is something that some people are doing now, among other things.

Show me a page were someone does this.

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GeorgR.

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelly Verge

Yet again I have noticed sales very nearly drying up for a product I've been promoting - even though my traffic levels keep increasing. As expected, on their sales page I found a VERY prominent opt-in for a free 7-day course.

I signed up for this course and while reading the first day's report noted a link for a "subscribers' only special." I clicked the link, following the sales process through to CB's order form. Guess what I found?

So now for the good part...

I have roughly copied their "course," not word-for-word, but provided the same info in my words. I now direct traffic to my opt-in and when they're going through my course, the emails all contain my affiliate links back to their product.

The best thing is that now I can also promote related products.

i think this subject deserves MORE attention since it is crucial for affiliates!

I am actually thinking of compiling a list of CB vendors which "feature" pop-ups with email opt-ins at their landing page.

STAY AWAY FROM ANY OF THOSE VENDORS.

If they offer the site visitors a "incredible deal" via "please enter your email popup" its likely that affiliates dont see anything from those sales.

Furthermore, popups are BAD if you are doing Adwords.

Again: Check your vendor's landing pages. Dont let them rip you off with those subscriber popups!

Clickbank's view is that once the lead has opted in to the vendor, the affiliate has no further protection against losing the subsequent sale (and to be honest, I don't blame them for that, because they wouldn't be able to police/enforce any other system, would they?).

alexa, you know so much about CB its sometimes scary

But if they use some "hidden" way to run a hoplink eg. on the "contact us" or "privacy page"...isn't this almost as bad as cookie stuffing? Its certainly not a "valid" hoplink in compliance with CB Tos if i go to "contact us" and get a new cookie served which overwrites the other one.

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Trader54

15 years ago

I have been with clickbank for over 6 years, this past month was my best by far for affiliate sales and i would I guess I sent traffic to sites were at least 90% of the sales pages had opt-ins.

You will leave a lot of money on the table by not promoting good sites opt-in or not.

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Gail Sober

15 years ago

Trader54, sorry but you'll have to go through them all yourself if you don't believe me. I don't have the time to go back through and search for you. I didn't log them for future reference.

It does happen, believe it or not.

I even emailed one guy about it and told him that I wanted to promote his product but couldn't do so because of this and he said that it was something he was testing and that he would email me back if/when he changed it.

True story

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Trader54

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Gail Sober

Trader54, sorry but you'll have to go through them all yourself if you don't believe me. I don't have the time to go back through and search for you. I didn't log them for future reference.

True story

Yeah I didn't think you would have one.

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Gail Sober

15 years ago

[Yeah I didn't think you would have one]

lol, some people.

Switching cb id's on links is fairly benign. If you have a hard time imagining that could happen, the next thing I write will probably make your head explode.

Ever heard of cloaking?

Imagine you sign up to promote a product.

There's a script in place that whitelists your url when you sign up and every time you login to check stats or to get banners (in case you login from multiple computers) so that everytime you visit abc.html to check the page, the server shows you abc.html but everyone who is not whitelisted sees xyz.html which is an entirely different page or one that does not contain your referral id or even a different payment processer.

This is nothing new and has been used by product vendors for years. I didn't look for this when going through the hundreds of pages you want me to go back through and am not saying that any clickbank vendors do this but it does exist and has for years.

That's just the tip of the iceburg of what can and does go on.

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Trader54

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Gail Sober

[Yeah I didn't think you would have one]

lol, some people.

Switching cb id's on links is fairly benign. If you have a hard time imagining that could happen, the next thing I write will probably make your head explode.

.

Now your switching your story. Yeah people do that all the time, insert their own affiliate link. And with clickbank that is not against their TOS.

You said they were switching ID's by clicking on their privacy and contact page links. Now you want to switch your story.

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Gail Sober

15 years ago

You said they were switching ID's by clicking on their privacy and contact page links. Now you want to switch your story

*sigh*

No, my story has not changed. The switched id's on those urls did happen.

The second part I added regarding cloaking is what I said that I was not looking for and did not find when doing my research.

Two completely different and seperate issues.

You seem to bent on arguing and there really is no need for it.

A. It did happen
B. Just because I won't go through hundreds of pages trying to find examples for you at your demand doesn't mean that it didn't.

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Trader54 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Gail Sober

You seem to bent on arguing and there really is no need for it.

No.

Just wanted some proof. As I said before didn't think you had any though
you claimed there are so many instances of it.
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- Lloyd Buchinski 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by rondo
  
  I don't get it. If they were robbing you wouldn't it show their affiliate ID instead of 'none'?
  
  If they are selling through their vendor id, it will show up as 'none.' I learn something every day, that I wish I never knew.
  
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Christophe Young

15 years ago

Man, I can't believe some of the stuff people try and pull. My opinion of CB in general is lowering by the day. They seem to attract a lot of bad people. Not all of course, but lots of funny stuff going on over there.

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Gail Sober

15 years ago

Trader54, what I said was that it was very eye opening what some vendors are doing to switch out referral id's and avoid paying affiliate commissions.

A small part of that is switching id's on those links I mentioned. There are other things going on to include what the OP was referring to.

Also, to clarify... I like Clickbank. I like them a lot. They direct deposit money into my account every week like clockwork and where else are you going to find such a huge collection of products to promote so easily.

Just as a rule of thumb, with thousands of vendors it is a little naive to think that out of all of them, there are not a few with less than stellar ethics. It happens in all walks of life and in all professions.

I'll let you have the last word.

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Trader54

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Gail Sober

Trader54, what I said was that it was very eye opening what some vendors are doing to switch out referral id's and avoid paying affiliate commissions.

A small part of that is switching id's on those links I mentioned. There are other things going on to include what the OP was referring to.

Also, to clarify... I like Clickbank. I like them a lot. They direct deposit money into my account every week like clockwork and where else are you going to find such a huge collection of products to promote so easily.

Just as a rule of thumb, with thousands of vendors it is a little naive to think that out of all of them, there are not a few with less than stellar ethics. It happens in all walks of life and in all professions.

I'll let you have the last word.

I agree with you. With thousands of products in their marketplace you will always find vendors and affiliates that try to abuse the system. That happens with all programs. People are people and there are always some trying to exploit the system.

But to say just because someone has a opt-in on their page means they are trying to screw you out of your commission is totally untrue. If they are doing it right this could increase your total sales. Like I posted earlier this past month has been my best for affiliate sales since I started with clickbank over 6 years ago, and I would say 90% of them have pop-ups. If vendors stealing commissions was a major problem I doubt clickbank would be flourishing as they are. A vast majority of sales are made by affiliates.

And like you say, the deposits are made like clockwork every week, you gotta love that.

I guess if you make money with clickbank you love them.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 15 years ago

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Harvey Segal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes, when I've seen this done myself (and I've seen it many times, from having opted-in to vendors' autoresponder series from their sales pages - which I dont bother to do any more, these days), it's always or almost always been with another affiliate-link, which I've assumed to be their own, or their wife's, or their dog's, or whatever).

I also can't see how it would show [affiliate=none] except for
a link to another account.

The only ways to get [affiliate=none] are

1. With a direct link to the sales page

2. With an affiliate link where the vendor is using his own affiliate-id

i.e instead of
http://AFFILIATE.VENDOR.hop.clickbank.net
he uses
http://VENDOR.VENDOR.hop.clickbank.net

In both cases your existing cookie will take effect.

Harvey

.

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Lloyd Buchinski 15 years ago

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- feefondo 15 years ago
  
  I had a vendors sales page that linked to another product of theirs. When clicking on that link the sales would go to somebody totally different than me. So if i do all my hard work to get a lead to your site why should the vendor add other options on the page that will potentially lose me a sale? All sales pages should only have the one product on it with no other offers except the one you are promoting.
  
  If this were the case then i would just make up a bogus product and post it on click bank with all my other commissions (links) on my sales pages pointing back to me and nothing for the affiliate who worked so hard to get a potential lead there in the first place.
  
  I check all the sales pages and if there are other ads on it or offers i don't promote it. If the vendor wants to share the conmissions with me then that's a different story.
  
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Gail Sober

15 years ago

This is either a coincidence or someone is reading this thread but I just got an email today from one of the people I emailed when going through the marketplace.

My email

Hi,

I was looking at promoting your product via clickbank and noticed that you have a link right underneath the order button

"If You'd Like To Find Out More About ########### - Click Here"

Which sends the visitor to another page with YOUR clickbank affiliate id.

If you change this, please let me know so I can take another look at promoting your product

Email I received today

Just thought I'd let you know I've removed the affiliate link on my home page and whilst I will be continuously testing and improving the sales page I won't be adding further affiliate links.

Thanks - #######

P.S. It is currently converting at around 0.75% organic traffic

This particular one is a slightly different scenario than I mentioned above but CB ID switching nonetheless and just one of the different ways I discovered it being done.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I think this one was actually a link to another of their products or someone elses and not actually ID switching per say but still a little devious to say the least as the link was very prominent directly beneath the order button.

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matthewd

15 years ago

I'm with Harvey... If it's the vendor, I don't see how
it is showing [affiliate=none] unless they are sending
the traffic to a different account all together.

Is this the case, Kelly?

If not, then my guess is that it's Clickbank's fault... they have had
many tracking issues in the past and I have recently began
noticing things that lead me to believe those issues are coming back.

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Kelly Verge

15 years ago

Originally Posted by matthewd

I'm with Harvey... If it's the vendor, I don't see how
it is showing [affiliate=none] unless they are sending
the traffic to a different account all together.

Is this the case, Kelly?

It's a different account. That's what I meant when I replied "different product."

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matthewd 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kelly Verge

It's a different account. That's what I meant when I replied "different product."

Ok, gotcha... that makes sense then.
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Afaneh

15 years ago

I hate when they do that. I never do that to my affiliates I capture the affiliate Id for who referred each lead . and in my e-mails the links are customized with the affiliate's id of the affiliate who referred the lead

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JoeHughes

15 years ago

I sippose the mooto of the story is do a little bit more research into the vendors before you spend your precious time building their business. They are very short sighted.