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This will rub some people the wrong way...

by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
57 replies
People come to the WF because they want to make some cash--hopefully a lot of cash. I get that.

But there is a key to making boatloads of moola that many people have overlooked and it's huge.

I was talking to a friend of mine a few months ago. This guy founded a world-wide fitness franchise business and literally took it from zero to over $100 million in value. He sold portion of the business for $12 million a couple years ago.

I was asking his opinion on a business idea I had and he asked me a pointed question: "What do you bring to the table?"

He went on to elaborate: "You are only worth as much as what you bring to the table. If anyone can do what you do, then you aren't worth much. If you excel in skills or contacts or leadership then you can make money. Otherwise you're not worth anything."

I see lots of people on here trying to make money without bringing anything unique to the table. They want to retire by spinning PLR, tricking Google, getting crap written by barely literate $1 a day typewriter monkeys.

Here's what we all need to ask if we want to make big bucks:

What do you bring to the table?
  • Do you have a system that automates your tasks so well you can accomplish 10 times as much as your competition?
  • Do you have a product that does something no one else is doing?
  • Do you have unique access to a market niche?
  • Do you possess special knowledge others will pay you to access?
  • Are you super organized to the point where you can manage a larger business?
  • Do you have access to capital?
  • Are you an awesome writer?
  • Do you have a unique experience?
  • Do you have a talent in getting people to like you and work with you?
  • Do you already have a strong network that you can leverage for success?
  • Do you have an in demand skill?
  • Do you have more perseverance than other people in the niche?
  • Once you figure out what you will bring to the table that is unique, you can make big money online.

What do you think? What other ways are there to bring something unique to the table?
#people #rub #wrong
  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Something unique to bring to the table would be to be willing to learn the skills and do the work. I can NOT stress that enough. So many think (and for good reason, because it's what's mostly shoved down their poor throats) that it's all such a walk in the park. Now, it CAN be, sure...after you've put in your time! Hell, these days sometimes I work IN the park. LOL

    But there's no way to pass up that learning curve and succeed. It just doesn't happen, much as the guru's would like you to think it does...
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
      Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets View Post

      Something unique to bring to the table would be to be willing to learn the skills and do the work.
      Good call. Most people won't do the work necessary to succeed.
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    • Profile picture of the author bydomino
      Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets View Post

      Something unique to bring to the table would be to be willing to learn the skills and do the work. I can NOT stress that enough. So many think (and for good reason, because it's what's mostly shoved down their poor throats) that it's all such a walk in the park. Now, it CAN be, sure...after you've put in your time! Hell, these days sometimes I work IN the park. LOL

      But there's no way to pass up that learning curve and succeed. It just doesn't happen, much as the guru's would like you to think it does...
      The original post was good but as far as I am concerned the thread should have stopped right here.

      THIS IS THE BEST ANSWER. It Is usually what most folks miss and what the folks selling IM tools, software, guides and such know. That is why they keep selling them.

      If Folks would get a tool, guide or software and really use it then there would not be so many buyers.

      No offense to the many contributers, they, many of them offer great products!!

      Kevin
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter View Post

    I was asking his opinion on a business idea I had and he asked me a pointed question: "What do you bring to the table?"
    OMFG this so reminds me of a conversation I had recently.

    Basically, this guy wanted to form a team of internet marketers. He had his father, who was an experienced copywriter. His brother, who was an experienced system administrator. And his friend, who was an experienced web designer. And now he wanted me to join his team as the product creator.

    So I started asking what this team did, and essentially what it did was... nothing. I asked to see some of his father's sales pages, and he hadn't done any. I asked to see some of his friend's web sites, and he didn't have any.

    Basically, they were offering to do some work I was already doing myself, in return for 80% of my product sales.

    And when I asked why exactly I shouldn't just do it myself and keep all the money, all I got back was a lot of feel-good garbage about how everybody successful is using a team to get their work done, and don't I want to be a team player?

    Um, no. Not really. I don't see any inherent value to being on a team. I would like to be on a team with a great copywriter, or with an amazing sysadmin, or with a brilliant designer. But just to be on a team with some random person that hung a label on himself? Not interested.

    And I still don't know WTF the guy who actually contacted me was going to do. He seemed not to have any skills or experience in anything at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      And I still don't know WTF the guy who actually contacted me was going to do. He seemed not to have any skills or experience in anything at all.
      Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the g** d*** customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Basically, this guy wanted to form a team of internet marketers. He had his father, who was an experienced copywriter. His brother, who was an experienced system administrator. And his friend, who was an experienced web designer. And now he wanted me to join his team as the product creator.
      See, here's where it all went wrong...you don't have "experienced" in front of your title.

      Kevin,

      I was asking his opinion on a business idea I had and he asked me a pointed question: "What do you bring to the table?"
      Most people are content bringing a fork and a knife to the table. Occasionally they show up with a spoon, as well.

      It's no wonder they get confused when they are faced with that question. Perhaps we should change the cliche' to "What do you bring to the kitchen?"

      At least that way they won't expect the meal to already be prepared...:rolleyes:

      ~Bill
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      • Profile picture of the author OLOORE
        [QUOTE]Most people are content bringing a fork and a knife to the table. Occasionally they show up with a spoon, as well.

        Perhaps we should change the cliche' to "What do you bring to the kitchen?"

        At least that way they won't expect the meal to already be prepared...:rolleyes:


        The summary then should be, If you didn't bring anything to the kitchen,don't bother to bring even a fork to the table,period. If you come with a fork, it will simply hurt others present.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      OMFG this so reminds me of a conversation I had recently.

      Basically, this guy wanted to form a team of internet marketers. He had his father, who was an experienced copywriter. His brother, who was an experienced system administrator. And his friend, who was an experienced web designer. And now he wanted me to join his team as the product creator.

      So I started asking what this team did, and essentially what it did was... nothing. I asked to see some of his father's sales pages, and he hadn't done any. I asked to see some of his friend's web sites, and he didn't have any.

      Basically, they were offering to do some work I was already doing myself, in return for 80% of my product sales.

      And when I asked why exactly I shouldn't just do it myself and keep all the money, all I got back was a lot of feel-good garbage about how everybody successful is using a team to get their work done, and don't I want to be a team player?

      Um, no. Not really. I don't see any inherent value to being on a team. I would like to be on a team with a great copywriter, or with an amazing sysadmin, or with a brilliant designer. But just to be on a team with some random person that hung a label on himself? Not interested.

      And I still don't know WTF the guy who actually contacted me was going to do. He seemed not to have any skills or experience in anything at all.
      There's something about the way you write in your posts and talk
      in your threads that makes me laugh, makes me think, and challenges
      me. In other words...

      it makes me smile how dead on you are on so many topics.

      What made me laugh was when you asked a series of questions
      that boiled down to ...nothing. lol.

      I shouldn't laugh because it happens often to me as well. I'm good
      at spotting it really fast before I invest more than 2 - 3 minutes of
      my time on any one person who wont' bring anything valuable to a
      team.

      I meet more people who want to "do something" with me, instead
      of doing something for "themselves" and INCLUDING me into their
      business. I always get the weird feeling that they want me to do
      all their work for them...

      but it's called a partnership. Strange. I don't buy the BS
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    • Profile picture of the author JayPeete
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      And I still don't know WTF the guy who actually contacted me was going to do. He seemed not to have any skills or experience in anything at all.
      He is the networker, LOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Dalangin
    When I was in a corporate world and the customer ask what software we think they needed then here's my answer ==> Whatever software you're dreaming can be done.We will rely on what you want and we will add something on it that we think you will love it.

    So I'll add big promise that can achieve, expertise, mindset, confidence, planning and strategies to make anything can be done.

    Ross
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
      Originally Posted by Ross Dalangin View Post

      When I was in a corporate world and the customer ask what software we think they needed then here's my answer ==> Whatever software you're dreaming can be done.We will rely on what you want and we will add something on it that we think you will love it.

      So I'll add big promise that can achieve, expertise, mindset, confidence, planning and strategies to make anything can be done.

      Ross
      I would call it "competence" as well--the ability to deliver on your promise.
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      • Profile picture of the author grayambition
        Good, solid, basic advice, Kevin, but I fail to see anything controversial about it. It's certainly not a "Warrior Forum Controversy," as you labeled it in the email you just sent out. Are you trying to start a controversy? I don't see that happening here. Not much to argue with in what you're saying.

        Not sure what you're trying to stir up by saying "I just made a post at the Warrior Forum that will probably make a few people mad." Um, why?

        Ignoring the hype, it was a good post.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          Most people are content bringing a fork and a knife to the table. Occasionally they show up with a spoon, as well.

          It's no wonder they get confused when they are faced with that question. Perhaps we should change the cliche' to "What do you bring to the kitchen?"

          At least that way they won't expect the meal to already be prepared...:rolleyes:

          ~Bill
          Funny.

          Originally Posted by grayambition View Post

          Good, solid, basic advice, Kevin, but I fail to see anything controversial about it.
          I don't know. I suspected the number of people posting things like "Ok, so I set up a blog, spun my PLR but I haven't made any money yet--what's wrong with the internet?" might have gotten offended.

          But I guess not...

          Hype aside, however, you did click, right?
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          • Profile picture of the author grayambition
            Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter View Post


            Hype aside, however, you did click, right?
            Sigh. I do get tired of "But you clicked, right?"

            Yeah, I did. I clicked on "This may rub people the wrong way" to see what would rub people the wrong way. And found some decent, utterly non-controversial info that's not going to rub anyone the wrong way.

            And I clicked on the link in your email to find out all about the latest "Warrior Forum Controversy." But there isn't one. At least not here. Bummer. Controversy's fun to read about.

            So yeah, I clicked. But generally, if the promise in the headline isn't met in the text, I click away pretty fast.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
              Originally Posted by grayambition View Post

              Sigh. I do get tired of "But you clicked, right?"
              Jan: I didn't mean to sound glib. That line was tongue in cheek and written almost as an afterthought. I didn't mean for it to be taken seriously. I apologize.

              I appreciate you calling me out on what you felt was too hyped. It's a tough line. I re-wrote this post several times taking out language that I felt was too discouraging for people starting out and added a list of ways a person could be unique.

              The first draft was probably more in line with the email.
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              • Profile picture of the author grayambition
                Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter View Post

                Jan: I didn't mean to sound glib. That line was tongue in cheek and written almost as an afterthought. I didn't mean for it to be taken seriously. I apologize.

                I appreciate you calling me out on what you felt was too hyped. It's a tough line. I re-wrote this post several times taking out language that I felt was too discouraging for people starting out and added a list of ways a person could be unique.

                The first draft was probably more in line with the email.
                No problem at all, Kevin. I really didn't mean to pick on you. Really. None of this was directed at you personally. You seem like a great guy.

                It just gets really old and boring that EVERYTHING has to be hyped, including an simple WF post (valuable as it may be).
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                • Profile picture of the author WebMarketeer
                  If you talk the talk, you have to be able to walk the walk(cliche,i know) but its true, if you talk a big game and dont deliver, the ones that are holding their own are going to sniff you out and mutilate you, in any business.
                  I currently started working with this company on their SEO strategy, I was introduced by my sister who did some side work for them, I was under the impression at first that they just needed some basic tech bs but they actually needed seo help, right up my alley. When I met the head hancho, i told him what i can do, but did not make myself out to be some know it all, I delivered results as I said I would and now he comes to me for advice, this millionaire, eating out of my hand.
                  Im not blowing smoke up my own a$# but its the point that i delivered, I "brought to the table" and if you are willing to do that you will make it anywhere..
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      • Profile picture of the author Ross Dalangin
        Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter View Post

        I would call it "competence" as well--the ability to deliver on your promise.
        You're partly right but I've seen some "competent" people who doesn't have courage to bring that to the table. Many people nowadays are under-employment, knows too much but don't have willingness and courage to apply what they know. It's the reason why I choose "expertise" with an encouragement step by step feeling explaining to them that a problem can be solve.

        Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    Sure, you're right, but here's the catch:

    If you were already excellent at some skill, if you already knew clearly what you could bring to the table, then would you be likely to be in internet marketing?

    For some of the 'old boys', the internet may just be a new medium of doing what they've always done, but most people likely come to internet marketing because they don't know what their unique talent is.

    My point is, there's no need to stress it and give up just cause you're not a brilliant copywriter or a fantastic designer at this moment.

    Part of the journey towards mastery is discovering what you want to be a master at.

    I bet lot's of people didn't discover their true calling until they had bumped their head against a wall several times.

    So, even as you fail in this game using $1 articles and putting up failed .info autoblogs, you are on a journey to something else.

    When I started in internet marketing I absolutely hated SEO, but as I got to know more about it, I begun to see it as a challenge and suddenly somewhere along the way I discovered I actually liked it - it was fun! So I decided that SEO was a business model I could work with. And it paid off, both online and offline.

    So, if you're new to this game, don't fret that you don't know what you're good at. Michael Jordan wanted to be a baseball player, but fate would have it otherwise. Just keep moving forward and learn at all times from your failures.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

      most people likely come to internet marketing because they don't know what their unique talent is.
      This isn't about whether to give up. It's about working with other people. If the other guy is going to do all the work, why are you getting any of the money?

      I'm perfectly willing to help. I get newbies who want to partner with me all the time. And then I start going "okay, what are you going to do?" - and they don't know.

      I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just sort of sit here and go "Okay, you want to make this great new product, and you don't know how to do it; that's fine. Let's find out what you can do." And after we've gone down the list of what needs to be done, and I'm the one doing all of it because the newbie doesn't know how, I'm forced to ask: why am I partnering with you again?

      A partner pulls his weight. That's all we're saying.
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      • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        This isn't about whether to give up. It's about working with other people. If the other guy is going to do all the work, why are you getting any of the money?

        I'm perfectly willing to help. I get newbies who want to partner with me all the time. And then I start going "okay, what are you going to do?" - and they don't know.

        I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just sort of sit here and go "Okay, you want to make this great new product, and you don't know how to do it; that's fine. Let's find out what you can do." And after we've gone down the list of what needs to be done, and I'm the one doing all of it because the newbie doesn't know how, I'm forced to ask: why am I partnering with you again?

        A partner pulls his weight. That's all we're saying.
        You're absolutely right.

        I am in one of those situations with an old friend. I really want to help him out, but I can't, and won't, be the one essentially doing all the work.

        I mean, I'll do favors for some of my less internet savvy friends all the time, set up a blog, run an adwords campaign, do some SEO, but I am not going to run a project by myself and then give 50% to a partner that haven't done anything - good intentions or not!
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        • Profile picture of the author OLOORE
          Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

          You're absolutely right.

          I am in one of those situations with an old friend. I really want to help him out, but I can't, and won't, be the one essentially doing all the work.

          I mean, I'll do favors for some of my less internet savvy friends all the time, set up a blog, run an adwords campaign, do some SEO, but I am not going to run a project by myself and then give 50% to a partner that haven't done anything - good intentions or not!
          The irony of life is that those who have people willing to help them keep misusing the opportunities, while there are many others who look everywhere with NOBODY to help.
          I hope I'll see you to lend a helping hand when I need you. Tnx in ADVANCE
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  • Profile picture of the author jdwfg4
    I totally agree...you can make SOME money promoting this or that online with the crowd, and do it decently, maybe $100k/year or something, but eventually to make a lot, you have to be creative and do what others AREN'T doing or do it before them.
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  • Profile picture of the author steelhead
    All things considered, I believe the complexities of IM have grown as Mother G has put a porous but work-in-process lid on the crap. People in general want to be spoon fed and I get that. Noobs are babes in the woods.

    Having gone through the dot com bust all the time wondering where the meat was. Well I guess we found out. IMO you can't be a one trick pony to be successful. Or, as Dan Kennedy used to say, you need more than two clicks on your dial.

    Hard work and keeping your knowledge fresh is essential. The same two things that make things happen in the offline brick and motar world. Taffic and conversion. Prospecting and closing the deal. Different words that do the same thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
      Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

      For some of the 'old boys', the internet may just be a new medium of doing what they've always done, but most people likely come to internet marketing because they don't know what their unique talent is.

      My point is, there's no need to stress it and give up just cause you're not a brilliant copywriter or a fantastic designer at this moment.
      Good addition.

      Originally Posted by jdwfg4 View Post

      I totally agree...you can make SOME money promoting this or that online with the crowd, and do it decently, maybe $100k/year or something, but eventually to make a lot, you have to be creative and do what others AREN'T doing or do it before them.
      Or do it better significantly...

      Originally Posted by steelhead View Post

      All things considered, I believe the complexities of IM have grown as Mother G has put a porous but work-in-process lid on the crap. People in general want to be spoon fed and I get that. Noobs are babes in the woods.

      Having gone through the dot com bust all the time wondering where the meat was. Well I guess we found out. IMO you can't be a one trick pony to be successful. Or, as Dan Kennedy used to say, you need more than two clicks on your dial.

      Hard work and keeping your knowledge fresh is essential. The same two things that make things happen in the offline brick and motar world. Taffic and conversion. Prospecting and closing the deal. Different words that do the same thing.
      Do you think the WF works as an enabler at times to make people feel good about NOT bringing value?
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  • Profile picture of the author 2Quick
    Kevin,
    I am curious what you feel the people who come across this below and take action on it, finding success, are bringing to the table, other than desire and a never give up attitude?

    "You Can Start from Scratch and
    Create a PILE of Cash in the Next 30 Days
    --Even if You are a Complete Newbie--
    and Turn it into a Six-Figure Business"

    Jeff
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
      Originally Posted by 2Quick View Post

      Kevin,
      I am curious what you feel the people who come across this below and take action on it, finding success, are bringing to the table, other than desire and a never give up attitude?

      "You Can Start from Scratch and
      Create a PILE of Cash in the Next 30 Days
      --Even if You are a Complete Newbie--
      and Turn it into a Six-Figure Business"

      Jeff
      WHAT A GREAT HEADLINE!

      Just kidding...

      I've been talking to Charles Montgomery some of late. He picked up the package and has done many thousands of dollars in less than 40 days or so.

      I've also seen people who followed the entire 30 day plan and make a few hundred.

      I've seen people take no action and make nothing--but you knew that already.

      The success people have with my materials--or anyone's--is going to be proportional to what they bring to the table. Charles brought an excellent experience to the table and was able to turn that into a quick payday which he should be able to turn into a solid six-figure business.

      Does everyone duplicate his results? Nope. Of the students I have followed up with who used these materials I have seen some interesting trends:

      Those who followed it to the letter typically made over $1,000.00 in almost every case in 30-60 days. But there is a marked difference in what happened beyond that...

      Those who use reprint rights products tended to not do well following up beyond the initial sales. They hit a home-run then had trouble getting singles because they possibly didn't put into place a system to continually follow-up with their new leads. Or possibly they didn't have good enough copywriting skills. Or they lacked perseverance.

      Those who created a unique product of their own but written by others typically did OK--they continued to make money for months to come. Some of them did extremely well, but most made less than $50K in online sales over the next 12 months.

      Those who marketed a product they created themselves tended to do the best. Jeff Anderson does well over $250K a year. Sean Malarkey did $200K his first year and continues to pull in huge numbers.

      PS: I'll get to your PM in a minute.
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    • Profile picture of the author Collette
      Originally Posted by 2Quick View Post

      Kevin,
      I am curious what you feel the people who come across this below and take action on it, finding success, are bringing to the table, other than desire and a never give up attitude?

      "You Can Start from Scratch and
      Create a PILE of Cash in the Next 30 Days
      --Even if You are a Complete Newbie--
      and Turn it into a Six-Figure Business"
      I would hope they're also bringing to the table the energy to put in some actual work, a readiness for objective self-examination, and a willingness to explore (and learn from) repeated failures.

      The very basic principles of building a successful business, online or offline, haven't changed in centuries:
      • Find out what people want and figure out how to give it to them.
      • Take action. Mount Everest is climbed one small step at a time.
      • Spend your time doing what you're good at. Find people who are better than you are at doing the things you're not good at.
      • Never over-promise, and always try to over-deliver.
      • Delight the customer.
      Wash, rinse, repeat.

      I don't think Kevin's OP is meant to discourage people from beginning the journey until they can check off ALL the things on his list. Rather, people who truly have a desire to carve out their own future can use the list as a handy starting place.

      Consider using it as inspiration to recognizing your talent in at least one of those 'categories' and a guide to figuring out what (or who) you'll need to find/learn/do to fill in the gaps.

      What I'm about to say probably WILL rub a lot of people the wrong way...

      People throw all kinds of roadblocks in front of themselves to avoid taking action - or responsibility - for where they are in life.

      I've seen it again and again...

      For example, someone who has zero web design skills spending umpteen hours trying to design a web site from scratch - because they 'need a web site" to begin their online business and can't afford to hire a proper designer.

      In spite of the fact that every major web site host offers ready-made 'drag n' drop' templates that can have you up and online in about 10 minutes flat. For $10 a month or less. Problem: meet Solution.

      Or someone with minimal writing skills will spend hours cutting and pasting a collage of cliche phrases and superlatives together because they "need a sales letter".

      No, you don't.

      If what you're selling requires an elaborate persuasion that is beyond your current skill set, you HAVE choices: hire someone to write it for you or, if you don't have the $ to hire a competent writer, sell something else that doesn't require elaborate persuasion.

      Here's another choice: You can choose to believe the myth that successful people no longer need to learn anything. Or you can look around at the truly successful people and realize that every one of them - every single one - is always learning.

      And you, too, can choose to be open to learning. Better yet, you can actively pursue learning. Emphasis on "actively".

      Choices.

      You can choose to acknowledge that, when you take a chance on success, you run the risk of failing.

      You can choose to take responsibility for having called it totally wrong.

      You can choose to blame your failure on someone else who didn't deliver the easy for you.

      Or you can choose to acknowledge that you were a sucker - this time - and don't make the same mistake twice.

      Most importantly, you can choose to take every failure you encounter and use it to build your success.

      Because - and here's the thing - the road to success is not a buffed-out autobahn, flat and straight as the eye can see.

      Most often, its more like a Third World dirt track over mountain passes, littered with bumps and gaping potholes that can snap your wheel axles like dry twigs. Ignoring the fact that the potholes exist doesn't make them disappear; it'll just get you stranded.

      Drive too fast, without being realistic about the conditions, your driving skills, and the time the journey is going to take you, and you're practically begging to crash and burn.

      On the other hand, acknowledge your experience level, drive slowly, pay attention, and you'll get up and over the mountain just fine.

      And, yeah - the view from the top rocks.

      See, I believe Life really is about choices.

      You can sit around waiting for the perfect opportunity, the perfect day, the perfect time. And the perfect fairy godmother.

      Or you can choose to get off your ass, try to offer something that you believe brings value to people's lives, fall flat on your ass, risk making a complete idiot of yourself as you learn, and get up the next morning and say, "Now, how can I do that differently?"

      Your life. Your choice.
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      • Profile picture of the author OLOORE
        Collette, you made it all too clear.
        We need Warriors like you all of the time.Tnx
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      • Profile picture of the author darkonetoo
        I was asked by Kevin to make a comment on this thread.

        This thread is about TRUTH.

        When a piece of TRUTH shows its head, you define yourself by how you react.

        Originally Posted by Collette View Post

        ..., you can choose to get off your ass, try to offer something that you believe brings value to people's lives, fall flat on your ass, risk making a complete idiot of yourself as you learn, and get up the next morning and say, "Now, how can I do that differently?"

        Your life. Your choice.
        -Collette-

        I was writing a very long post to this thread that mirrored yours (perhaps not with a well-shined-mirror)--- and then I decided to just add this comment:

        Everything that "works" in marketing is not necessarily due to brilliance of the owner of the process.

        (It is necessary to read the rest of this slowly, because the ideas are huge)

        Some of the greatest successes ever, had one great "ability to bring to the table"; recognition of a specific response, uniqueness and brilliance- and the realization that others would respond to it -- and the willingness to take additional action to push that example of R-U-B until it stopped working.

        Because everyone is so unique, everyone has a completely different perspective - except in narrow "areas where we tend to always agree". These areas, for purposes of marketing, are where a significant numbers of individuals find themselves buying or clicking approval of an offer that just satisfies what they believe they need.

        That doesn't mean that we all agree in the areas we-all-were-just-in (the tipping point) before the "areas where we tend to always agree".

        The recognition of that magic combination of words or images displayed as being the "right" combination used at the tipping point--- is a talent at least as valuable as any discussed here. This makes it possible for a relatively ordinary observer to become the owner of the process that "WORKS".

        An insightful observer can see the perfection created accidently by a lummox. And then "own" the discovery.

        As -Collette- so eloquently pointed out, it is what the recognizer does with the valued information that makes the difference between being at the top or looking up for the rest of your days.

        -DarkOneToo-

        PS: That is why this forum is so valuable. It allows us all to be observers of some of the greatest marketing talent on earth. And their results. Nowhere does it pay so well to be a "lurker" than here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
    Originally Posted by StedeTroisi View Post

    What about the 5 pizza stores in town? What about the hundred of local $1 stores?<snip>
    Thanks for your input.

    I think two things about this Stede:

    First, I think the amount of money someone makes is directly proportional to the unique value they put into their business. Even for $1 stores and pizza joints.

    If someone is making a small amount of money following the same system someone else is using to make lots of money, chances are the first person is not bringing the same value to the table. I suspect you would agree with this.

    But here's the second thing...

    Here on the WF I often get frustrated by the number of posts when nobody bothers to tell the person who is making $10 a day after 2 years that they will stay at that level until they actually do something worth MORE than $10 a day.

    Chris Knight is a great example of bringing value. I know many here feel frustrated by the evolving rules and regulations at EzineArticles.com. But here's the thing:

    EzineArticles makes a boatload of money because from the very beginning Chris chose to bring higher value to an article bank than anyone had before. There are lots of article banks out there, but none of them match what EZA is doing.

    Could they? Sure, but they would have to bring more value to the table than EZA is.
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    • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
      Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter View Post

      First, I think the amount of money someone makes is directly proportional to the unique value they put into their business. Even for $1 stores and pizza joints.
      The thing is that sometimes people who're busy looking down their noses from up on high on their 'quality and value and passion' high horse don't see things (aka markets) that others who don't have these prejudices see.

      For example, Dollar General, a store with cheap goods who's not known for their quality product lines or having attractive stores. They had a revenue of $10.45 billion in 2009. Dollar Tree, $4.64 billion in 2009 selling stuff for a $1. Family Dollar, another cheap merch store, $7.40 billion in 2009. Big Lots, $4.65 Billion in 2009, selling cheap and refurb stuff. And, lastly the big Kahuna, Wal-Mart, $408.21 billion, selling discount to the masses.

      None of these companies are particularly bringing 'unique value' to the table other than having inexpensive merchandise. To make another Office Space reference, basically, you'll make more money from a McDonalds than a Chotchkie's in spite of the flair and attitude.

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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter
        Originally Posted by WebMarketeer View Post

        ...i told him what i can do, but did not make myself out to be some know it all, I delivered results as I said I would and now he comes to me for advice, this millionaire, eating out of my hand...
        Good for you!

        I can always tell who is a "real" expert by the times they are willing to say "I don't know." A novice doesn't know what he should and shouldn't know so he pretends to know everything. An expert knows where he is competent and where he isn't and is not afraid to tell you so.

        Originally Posted by crbedd View Post

        And maybe one IM system, plan is not better than another Maybe it doesn't make any difference. Maybe they all lead to the same successful, money making end?!
        Randy I couldn't agree more. Many comprehensive systems work if you commit to following them without being distracted.

        In my experience, there is a progression in a successful online business:

        1. Locating a source of prospects (traffic) you can reach at a likely profit,
        2. Finding out what those people are already buying and looking for,
        3. Securing or creating that product or service,
        4. Setting up a functional sales process.

        There are many ways to accomplish each of those steps, but the steps themselves are pretty much set in granite

        Originally Posted by drmani View Post

        PASSION
        Good addition Mani.

        Originally Posted by Sam Dunning View Post

        I think one of the most important skills you can learn in regards to marketing online is

        Traffic Generation
        Without question Sam. In fact, if a person has a traffic source online they can always monetize it.

        Originally Posted by MsDebra View Post

        I believe that in order to bring something to the table you must be willing to pay dues...There is a price to pay for success.
        I agree there is a price to pay, but I think many people don't yet know what that price is. It is NOT buying the next super-duper course.

        Originally Posted by JMichaelZ View Post

        I don't particularly believe in needing to pay dues to be able to succeed. I think that points to some sort of external validation of success and I do not believe that external validation can ever take the place of internal validation.
        I get where you're coming from Michael, but I think most people (me included) when they discuss paying the price are not necessarily thinking of external validation, but rather the actual personal price necessary for success.

        But you do make a good point: Success comes from within, not from needing external validation. Once we are cool with ourselves we can build success on our terms whether anyone else sees it or not.


        Originally Posted by darkonetoo View Post

        ...recognition of that magic combination of words or images displayed as being the "right" combination used at the tipping point--- is a talent at least as valuable as any discussed here. This makes it possible for a relatively ordinary observer to become the owner of the process that "WORKS"....
        While it's hard to quantify, this skill is probably one of the most important ones in business and in life.

        Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

        None of these companies are particularly bringing 'unique value' to the table other than having inexpensive merchandise.
        ...and a system to provide those goods at low prices.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

        None of these companies are particularly bringing 'unique value' to the table other than
        Whenever you have to say this while making your central point, it's a good idea to stop and think a little.

        Maybe that particular value counts for more than you think.
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        • Profile picture of the author jdenc
          Well I'm a little late to the party been pretty busy but I didn't find this controversial. Still it's a very good read with some good points made so I am glad I clicked.

          Right now being as new as I am I wouldn't even try to convince someone who was big time to partner with me. Now with that said I have started a business or two, I am a decent writer, a decent website maker, a decent marketer. So I do bring something to the table for someone who has never been professionally involved with any of those things. I have a deal cooking that will be a partnership. They will bring the niche knowledge and I'll bring the stuff I mentioned. We both freely admit we don't have what the other does. So I think this will work for us. We'll see.
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      • Profile picture of the author Collette
        Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

        The thing is that sometimes people who're busy looking down their noses from up on high on their 'quality and value and passion' high horse don't see things (aka markets) that others who don't have these prejudices see.

        For example, Dollar General, a store with cheap goods who's not known for their quality product lines or having attractive stores. They had a revenue of $10.45 billion in 2009. Dollar Tree, $4.64 billion in 2009 selling stuff for a $1. Family Dollar, another cheap merch store, $7.40 billion in 2009. Big Lots, $4.65 Billion in 2009, selling cheap and refurb stuff. And, lastly the big Kahuna, Wal-Mart, $408.21 billion, selling discount to the masses.

        None of these companies are particularly bringing 'unique value' to the table other than having inexpensive merchandise. To make another Office Space reference, basically, you'll make more money from a McDonalds than a Chotchkie's in spite of the flair and attitude.
        "Value" in the marketplace is defined by the market.

        There is a market for cheap goods. The companies you mentioned bring "value" to that market.

        Say I need to buy a suit to go on job interviews, and all I can afford is less than $100. I'm not going to find that suit in Bergdorf's (or similar). Not even on the remainder rack.

        So, I can either (a) underdress for the interview, and hope like hell my resume and personality allows them to overlook the packaging (probably not) or, (b) I can go to WalMart, pick up a suit for less than $100, and present the whole enchilada at the interview.

        Sure, I know that suit isn't going to last me 30 years. Hell, it may not make it through two cleanings. Sure, it won't have the impeccable tailoring or fabric of a $3,000 suit. I already know that before I get the smile from the WalMart greeter.

        But will that cheap suit save me from looking as though I'm so clueless that I have no idea how to dress in business setting? Hell, yeah.

        So that "cheap" suit... really has plenty of "value" for me; at that time, in that moment.

        WalMart, et al know the "value" they bring to the table. And they don't pretend to be anything other than what they are. The quality is in line with their prices. Their customers know what to expect, and expect what they get.

        I'd define that as "knowing your value".
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  • Profile picture of the author l3vi501
    Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter View Post

    He went on to elaborate: "You are only worth as much as what you bring to the table. If anyone can do what you do, then you aren't worth much. If you excel in skills or contacts or leadership then you can make money. Otherwise you're not worth anything."
    Best post I have seen in a while.

    Kevin is right, this post should be rubbing some people the wrong way. He is talking about outstanding performance/performers. Your skills (asset) are valued on the limited availability of your skills and how far you can out perform others as well as how close you are to the cash. The problem is people will markup skills that have low value as a high value to feel better about themselves, so they will never see that they do not have the performance they need.

    Outstanding performance is everything. When you have it, the pay scale comes off and you get to pick your price.

    Ps. Great book on the topic BTY: AmazonAmazon
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  • Profile picture of the author crbedd
    Greetings! Thank you to everyone who joined into the discussion about what it takes to be successful in internet marketing. I think one factor about the work and follow through that is done or not done is what Internet marketing system, plan to go.

    As you know there are so many like Mike G, Justin Blake, Kevin here, Howie Schwartz, Bloopio, Hollis and Marc, Michael Jones, Keith Wellman, Cody Moya, Kennedy and Glazer, etc. NOT TO MENTION OTHERS RIGHT HERE IN THIS DISCUSSION that could be listed right there with them as well.

    Then you also need the support, guidance, coaching, mentoring as with learning anything new that is not always provided. Not as has been said here, where the supporter is doing the work, but the legitate, real help that learning something new, complex requires.

    There is also the parts that you can't do well or better to have someone else do as has been mentioned. But then how do you decide or know which web designer or copywriter to go with for example when you are ignorant.


    And maybe one IM system, plan is not better than another Maybe it doesn't make any difference. Maybe they all lead to the same successful, money making end?!


    HOW DID YOU DECIDE or know which system, plan to trust your only precious dollars and time to and commit to?


    I willing to work my a--- off and my fingers to the bone as the trite sayings go, but I only have one butt and 10 fingers to play with, that's it. And I have to because I am at the end of the rope financially, no choice.


    Any thoughts, ideas, clarification, perspective is greatly appreciated.


    Randy or should I say dizzy, dazzled.
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  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter View Post

    I was asking his opinion on a business idea I had and he asked me a pointed question: "What do you bring to the table?"
    EXCELLENT list. Thanks!

    What do you think? What other ways are there to bring something unique to the table?
    One more thing.

    PASSION

    I just reviewed Gary V's "CRUSH IT!" on my blog. It's all about passion.

    All success
    Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author Freddie Crossberg
    Kevin,

    Great post.

    I think one of the most important skills you can learn in regards to marketing online is

    Traffic Generation

    Whether via PPC, SEO, JV Brokering, Media Buys etc

    This is a skill that is in high demand and if you learn and master it, you can't help but
    to make money. Just look at Clickbank. Heck, the people on there will do all the work
    in regards to product creation sales funnels etc and then pay you up to 75% of the
    purchase price IF YOU JUST SEND THEM SOME TRAFFIC.

    So if you bring traffic, you will be more than welcome at most tables on the Internet.

    Regards,

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author MsDebra
    I believe that in order to bring something to the table you must be willing to pay dues. In the hurry-up-get-rich times we live in today, no one wants to start at the bottom and work their way up. People tend to look at successful people in every niche as having arrived at their destination without shedding blood, sweat, and tears. Most of the WSO's on this forum relate stories of having failed at IM for several years before seeing success. I feel that some young people don't want to work regular j-o-b-s in order to develop a good work ethic and discipline. Some don't want to be trained or coached in IM because that takes too long. There is a price to pay for success.
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    • Profile picture of the author OLOORE
      [quote]
      Most of the WSO's on this forum relate stories of having failed at IM for several years before seeing success.it takes too long. There is a price to pay for success.


      The major problem today is not that the young people do not want to do regular jobs per se. I see a problem caused by the elders. It looks as if we've
      not passed down the attitudes, behavioral orientations bequited to us by the past generation to these younger people. You even here adverts everywhere
      emphasizing instant this and instant that. The repercussions is what we are now experiencing. So we blame ourselves. Then find ways of correcting this error
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    • Profile picture of the author 2Quick
      MsDebra and others here, obviously you have not read many sales pages, letters or WSO's and especially the HEADLINES for them.

      the Hurry-Up-And-Get-Rich mindset is largely in part due to such things!!!!!!!!

      Funny, so funny, how someone will put up a WSO and talk about people actually doing some work to make it happen, then at the same time, they come out with another WSO or several, that have Headlines and sales copy talking about overnight success with their EASY PEASY step by step formula.

      LOL

      Peace,

      Jeff
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      • Profile picture of the author funkynassau
        My husband has just about all of the things needed that are in the original post. He has the skill and the experience behind our online biz. It is an extension of our daily biz we've been doing for 15+ years. We have hope for our online biz for sure.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
        I don't particularly believe in needing to pay dues to be able to succeed. I think that points to some sort of external validation of success and I do not believe that external validation can ever take the place of internal validation.

        I do believe that the things you can bring to the table are the things you believe you can. A track record is good. Past success is good. But if that past success cannot translate into something that is applicable to the current project, it does not make any difference how successful you were before - except in the knowledge that you wre successful.

        That counts for a lot.

        OTH if you are acting as the manager of a project and you absolutely know you need someone with a particular skill set, get that person who has been successful with providing that in the past, and can prove it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Harvey
    It was really funny when I read CDarklock's comment.

    I can sort of relate to some poor soul that has a lot of talent and do not have anything to show for it. It is real funny though in life when I say to people...I can do X Y Z and they ask for samples and I can't give them anything. To be fair I am not in the habit of keeping samples around.

    If some people are like me that are creative and lost in the sea of ideas, then they won't have much to show for their creativity. Frustrating really because I work and simply do not have the time to sit around and 'impress people with samples'

    I know I am good... but then I am sure there are some people that 'think' they are good when they are not. So it's a hard call really.

    Safe to say I am damn good in some areas and I have no illusion about that... I have had the pleasure of saying silently 'I told you I can do it' to many people in my lifetime. People sometimes really underestimate me at times. But that is just me... as with other people... well the easiest way to do it, is ask them to do something small.

    If it was me, I would have asked for a sample copy on a topic that the father could have done... it only had to be a couple of paragraphs. From that you can see if it was worth the while to take it any further.

    I am not defending them because they may have been real idiots that had grand illusions of money-stardom but in the end it could have easily been determined if they are the real deal by asking them to do something to show what they are capable of.
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  • Profile picture of the author waltermulder
    I agree Kevin.

    One of the first things I heard when I entered the Internet Marketing community, and I think this is very important indeed, is that you need to develop your own USP (unique selling proposition). What you call the "what do you bring on the table"

    I too think to many people trying just to copy what others do, that is the easy way but is it the best way?

    This post makes me realise how hard it can be to find your own USP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marco Yandun
    These are great points you show here. I'd add some things to get success:

    1. You must have a product to offer
    2. You must work hard learning the skills to Market, Advertise and Promote
    3. You have not give it up soon

    Marco
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  • Profile picture of the author Edge88
    This is the type of mentality that any entrepreneur looking to make it big has. Those trying to make a few thousand dollars don't need to bring anything unique to the table other than hard work. Those looking to make 100 million better bring some "special sauce." You are comparing folks who just want to make a living like many here on the WF (nothing wrong with that) vs extremely ambitious entrepreneurs. For those of you who have an awesome startup idea, don't hide it from people, do exactly what the OP did, bounce it off some smart entrepreneurs. and if you are serious about it, try to think of what your "comparative advantage" is, basically what the OP talks about, what do you have that others dont, and then exploit that to the fullest. remember that initiative and leadership can be anyone's comparative advantage, you just need to DO IT.
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