Outsourcing: India or the Philippines?

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Hey everyone,

It's time for me to hire a full-time VA or five. Who out there is doing this? Do you go with India or the Philippines? I've heard that Philippines is the way to go, but I'd like to have the security of a large firm that can delegate tasks to other people if one VA gets sick/bails/etc.

Any insights? Thanks!

Russ
#main internet marketing discussion forum #india #outsourcing #philippines
  • whoever can get the job done. does the country really matter?
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    • That is something that I am not sure though, I'm sorry.

      Both you guys are correct that it doesn't matter where the guys will be coming from. However, being educated and learning the backgrounds of each country and each culture will truly helps you in your decision making process.

      If we will just try to seek the real question here is that, this ain't really a question about which country is better? It is not about the countries, on top of that, it is about you the business owner who will do outsourcing your business. You are trying to feel which of these countries, which race, whom you will be more comfortable working with, and will be more productive.

      Fellow warriors are just sharing their personal experiences and it is good, because outsourcing is a very personal/subjective thing, it's case to case basis but having such trends on what others been saying you will have an idea to what it is to outsource in a particular country.

      Though outsourcing is a personal thing, when you are getting started you look at the totality of your options and you tend to generalize things but it's a common tendency, however, its totally up to you whether you will believe what others might be saying about this or that because in the long run it will just be you, who will know what is true and not true once you deal with an individual and that will now transcends where is he/she comes from.

      People are just sharing their experiences, they don't intentionally degrade a certain race/country they are just saying what they felt and thought about their experiences. Those are their experiences, it may happen or may not happen to us. We will just know that when we get there. They just wanna share that they thought will be of value to others.

      Chris
  • Country don't matter as long as the price is fair and the person you choice has the skills to complete the job.
  • It depends whether you are looking to hire several individuals, or a firm. Obviously, it may be easier to deal with a firm, as you will have one contact and they do the rest. However it may be easier to motivate individual freelancers, for example give a little bonus now and then when the work is good and brings you money. That way they stay motivated and even if they take too much work, you will enjoy preferential treatment ;-)
    I am not sure what exactly it is you are looking to outsource, but if article writing, I personally found Philippine writers easier to understand, but of course, that is a great generalization, especially because I only dealt with 2 writers from Philippines and 1 from India. It simply depends on English proficiency. But honestly, now I only outsource article writing to English native speakers. With bulk ordering, the price difference between them and Indian writers is not too dramatic, and I have to tell that quality has been better. Then again, these are people I outsource to regularly, so I know what to expect.
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    • Yes it does matter.

      Out of the two options, the Filipino's win hands down.

      Why?

      No disrespect to Indians but they have far more of a lax attitude when it comes to delivering what you want them to, on time.

      A sweeping generalization perhaps. But unfortunately, it's true.

      Now, the Philippines...

      A/ They have a much better command generally speaking of the English language.

      B/ Their work ethic is much better. They enjoy working especially for American companies and businesses here in the West, as this gives them a certain amount of credibility amongst their family and friends.

      C/ Their work rates are comparable to India without any of the hassle associated with employing people from India. $2-4 p/hr for a VA will get you someone very highly qualified for this position. Most Filipino's have a degree education.

      D/ They are extremely loyal. Treat them well and they'll stay with you for life. Nothing is too much trouble for them.

      In India, the exact opposite is unfortunately true. It's just how it is although some here may beg to differ.

      On a scale of 1-100 - India scores 20 points. The Philippines 85 points.

      No comparison. The choice is obvious from personal experience Russ.
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  • [DELETED]
  • The irony.
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    • Hahahahahaha, wow! I laughed out loud when I read that. Wit is alive and well on the WF, it seems.

      Thanks for the tips.

      Russ
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Philippines
  • Australia
  • I prefer Philippines among the two. However, Australia is best too.
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    • I certainly agree with this. Plus, Filipinos are really smart and diligent workers.
  • Our company employs a good number of people from the Philippines
  • I've heard Filipinos are very hard working and can be trusted. Try to outsource your work to them.
  • Russ, in my experience (since I've worked with both) it does really depend because I've found great people and terrible people from each country. But I will say the guy I have in India is SUPERB and does what I need any time of day or night it seems. The guy I have from the Philippines is also great. Beyond that I've had a bunch of others, but for the last 3-4 months have stuck with just these two guys and they are both doing great work. I think with any VA or person you outsource to, you might have to go through a few people before you really strike gold with the right person. So I would start them out on smaller tasks for a few weeks and see how the relationship goes. Hope that helps!
  • Philippines may be best for a VA
  • It really is a crap shoot....but I have had by far better luck with the Philippines
  • I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

    One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

    Chris
    • [9] replies
    • Is this a Joke Chris...........Are you telling the monthy wage of Indians 50 years back? Today I got my electric switch repaired and the electrician charged me Rs 350 for a 5 min work.

      No offence to you but Now I can imagine why they think so.
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    • So by that you are saying that since 400 Rupees and you so well state is the average it means that everybody falls in that average?

      I thought average was somehow calculated as the highest wage plus the minimum wage divided by two.

      Having that in mind I would like to ask you not that I am making a case for the Indians or what ever because I personally think they are even working at a very low rate that I don't think I can ever work at. Do you know what the highest wage in India is and has it occur to you just for a second that the person you were treating with actually deserves the maximum?

      And not to get into some polemic on who establishes these minimum or maximum rates and how accurate they are because from my vast knowledge of India I sincerely doubt that there is anybody except maybe the really unqualified and unskilled labor that can work for such a low rate 400Rupee.

      And that is not what you are looking for or is it?
    • Where you got these stats? Come to india and you can find what you can do with $8. For $8 you can get a nice dinner in medium sized restaurants that is all.
      I am from India, Salary for tech people is very high here. Broadband cost is very high here compared to USA.
      For a good web designer we have to pay $1000 . If you pay less then you will get crap designs.
      For coders you have to pay Around $1500 to $2000
      In real life you can get newbie VA for link building with less skills for around $250 .

      Article writer salary is around $300 to $400 here that is why i prefer outsource it.
    • You simply don't understand how they determine the average wage. When you divide India's entire income by the number of people, including all of the dirt farmers who have no skills other than farming you may get a really low number. But the people living in the cities who have the skills you lack yourself aren't dumb. They know and demand a fair wage and don't appreciate westerners who try to take advantage of them. Remember India is the world's largest Democracy and they have more Honour Roll students than the USA has students.
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    • $8/Month... Hmmm... Can you please show me the source from where you collected this data?

      I would like to correct you, here. The average wage $8/Month in India is for poor class laborers and not for the tech people.

      In India, technical people are getting around $400-$600 Month at an average.

      Do you think, that your VA who is owning a computer and an internet connection is earning $8/Month? You are talking about average income, but is it the average income of a VA? Because, we are talking about hiring a VA and not talking about the average income as a whole.

      Definitely, you want a VA and not a laborer. $10/Hour is a bit higher but $8/month is not at all to talk about.
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    • Stuff like this really does get my goat, I'm a UK born and based Indian but I've been to India a good 12-15 times, so a have a good grasp of the place.

      I don't know what the average salary in India is but I'm sure as heck it's higher than 400 rupees. but whatever the average salary is is irrelevant as we have to remember that the majority of the population is poor, I spent a month there back in September and the some of the poverty I saw was devastating, but I can guarantee you that the beggars on the street who can't read or write in Hindi, nevermind English are making more than 400 rupees/month. Whatever the average salary in India is would be way below what you'd expect to pay for a VA, because the average salary would most likely apply to labourers (e.g the Mason example Dr Mani mentioned), not to educated folk who can read and write English and have the money to own a computer and have broadband connections (sidenote, all of my cousins in India have MACs and Iphones, if the 400 rupee thing were true, each one of them would have to save up for over 23years to pay for that)

      Another thing, India has the second largest population in the world, over a billion people! Anyone who thinks they can try 1 or 2 VAs from India and then try to generalise about the whole country needs to sort themselves out, I mean seriously, am I the only one who can see how ridiculous that is?

      I remember reading somewhere a few years ago that 40% of Doctors in the US are Indian, it's funny how you can trust an Indian to save your life but think twice about one writing an article for you.

      This isn't me trying to say that Indians are all amazing and that's the only place you should outsource, I'm just trying to clear some ridiculous misconceptions on this thread, I've hired both Indians and Filipinos and will continue to hire folks on their skill sets and not their nationality, I hope I've inspired some of you to do the same.

      Ruchi
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    • I disagree . I wonder how you came up with the $8 figure. . Average monthly income in India comes to around 1/6th of that in US. So the average monthly income in US will come around $50 per month according to your assumption. .I doubt its highly unlikely. And asking $10 per hour is not much of a rip off if he/she can provide quality work.
    • I'm with you, Chris, though I can say this about the Philippines. Just last night, I emailed a few resumes I found on Craigslist Manilla looking for someone to setup Wordpress blogs with themes, plugins, articles, etc.

      I got quoted $9/hr by one guy, $60/blog from another.

      Are you freaking kidding me? A teacher in the Philippines makes about $250/month. An engineer about $400/month. And these people want $1200+ a month?

      I'm not an idiot.
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    • This post is patently absurd and veritably begs for derisive laughter.
  • I also recommend Filipino worker, Filipino workers work really hard as long as they receive the payment. The service they provide is a quality work.
  • Finding the right person who can work with you and sees your goals at the same time is really important. So where ever you may be as long as you can deliver, you will definitely be one great choice. I am just starting looking for VA, so i think i will stick to what you guys are talking about on two options. So far we can see who is better in this note.
  • Philippines for low rate and high quality work.
  • Speaking from my personal experience, I have outsourced to both Indians and Filipinos for article writing and rewriting, I can't say who is better than the other, I did have a good writer from India, so as from Philippines. But now I'm using Singaporean Secondary students, and they are the best so far, and have the sense of responsibility in delivering their works.

    You may try to find some at youth.sg forum...
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  • on our news in oz tonight, many Australian companies have still not been paid from the games held and many companies are owed millions.

    India has been dubbed in oz as /

    I = I'll
    N = Never
    D = Do
    I = It
    A = Again

    disclaimer not making personal calls just expressing how the media / oz business now see India for business.
    • [2] replies
    • There was a huge huge scam they did along with CWG (The scam was better than the games :rolleyes and many of the games organizers were arrested last month. So it's obvious that it's gonna take time before the Aussies get their money in bank.

      Coming back to the topic, outsourcing to India is good if you are dealing with a well established firm. But if you're gonna ask people to sit at home and do tasks, that's not going to work out. They work very well under pressure, with strict monitoring. But that would spoil the whole purpose of keeping VA's. Having said this, if you can find people and get into arrangements such as "pay for performance", then things will work fine.

      Philippines is always the better place for finding people as VA's. Most of them are really hard working and honest.

      The best thing about them is that, they're willing to learn on their own.

      All the best.

      Tom



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    • Wow - I find your comments both racist and offensive.
      If we are talking CWG - yes their was a problem, however it was uncovered and is being dealt with legally. Of course that means some payments are backed up as they are checked for ireegularities but the Government of India guaranteed everyones money and has never not paid any dues when they say they will....

      As for the anti India slant on this thread, and ive seen it a few times on the warrior forum. Aussies have had an issue with the 'harrassing' of India students within their own country for some time as seen in Western media, so no wonder they come out with anti India rhetoric...

      As a person of Indian descent I have found many post in this friend extremely distasteful and I repeat the remarks of another poster, that you cannot taint a country of one billion with your impression of just a few of them.

      Perhaps some of your bad experience are down to your lack of due diligence.

      I'm a damn hard worker, and am well respected in my professional work area, shame that I would be judged by many of you by my roots and not my ability.
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  • PHILIPPINES!!!

    I'm sure it's not a mortal sin by being bias and being objective all in the same time. I am speaking on behalf of the Filipino people and on behalf of all other marketers worked with Filipino outsourcing service providers.

    We may not be the highly skilled and knowledgeable race in the world, but we are somewhere on top if we will talk reliability and trustworthiness. Something that you just can't teach to anyone, it's innate in our culture. However, outsourcing needs some testing, and it's not a one time hit-the-target thing that you will be successful the first time, good for you if you will.

    It will takes a lot of testing, testing, and testing.

    It will not just require you to invest your money but you need to invest more time and other resources to be successful, and it will entails a lot of consideration, patience, and understanding on your end.

    Are you willing to take on the challenge?

    Goodluck.

    Chris
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    • I've had nothing but bad experiences outsourcing to people from India and nothing but good experiences outsourcing to people from the Phillipines.

      Obviously this is only over a small sample size and isn't conducive that one place is better than the other, but people from the Phillipines have always been best, from my experiences, and I'll continue to hire people from there.
  • I thinks Country may not be a great fact. You should think about quality.

    All freelancers from a country never be with the same quality and proficiency.

    If you want to write articles then you should choose native English speaker.

    Thanks
  • I hired an outsourcer from India on Freelancer in December to create 5 site's for $600. They were due to start work on the project 25th December but then in early January he emailed me to say that his father has become ill so he has to delay the project until at least 15th January.

    I agreed to waiting until 15th January because i had already payed him $40 as an upfront payment and payed the fee's to Freelancer plus i didn't want the hassle of finding another outsourcer. Do you think im being strung along? The project should have been near enough complete now, im getting annoyed by the whole thing.
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    • That's a common excuse they give you. But let me tell you, if you're hiring freelancers, don't expect any kind of loyalty from them. Most of these guys bid for almost every project out there and they don't really look at the volume they can handle. This guy would have got another project and must be buying time. But then again, I could be wrong as well.

      One thing I like about guys from Philippines is their loyalty. I've got people who work with me for almost 2 years now. They know what's best to do, even if I don't train them for each and every stuff.


      • [2] replies
    • Thank you.

      Great business owners deserves great workers too.

      Thumbs up to good business owners treating their workers very well.


      Everyone is entitled of the benefit of that doubt but not for too long.

      It may be that his father became ill and it's his responsibility as a son to take care of his father. However, he got himself into a contract with you that will establish an obligation on his end to fulfill what has been contracted for.

      You have the right to demand!!!

      Demand for the full completion of contract or just demand a refund.

      About the hassle, both ways you will experience this, you just need to choose which one is less hassle.

      The hassle of finding someone else that may lead to the completion of the project?

      or

      The hassle of waiting, wandering, bothering, and worrying if the project will be completed?

      You choose.

      Chris
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  • I'd say both countries can offer good value. I think it eventually boils down to individual service providers. You should choose the ones that will give you the best mix of quality, price & value. You may try and get quotes from companies in both countries and then make a decision. Thanks!
  • Anyone know of good Filipino firm? Or places to find them?
    • [2] replies
    • They are full on odesk you can get as many as you wish.
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    • Helo mesen, please pm me if you need my help. I can surely be of assistance.
  • Dont choose which country is better. PPl have different intelligent and you should take a sample test with them to see if they are qaulify and then you can decide later. I see both Indian and filipin are good at article writting and seo as well
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  • Hi Russ! Sure wish I could help out, though we're booked and have a
    waiting list of clients at the moment, some of whom are warriors... I own
    and run a 5-year old ICT (Information & Communications Technology)
    outsourcing firm here in Manila -- You can read my sig for our startup story...

    Anyway, I regularly work with subcontractor programming firms and
    independent programmer colleagues for our external and internal software
    projects... Having self learned programming myself 8 months ago, I noticed
    you get great programming expertise from people in India --- Have worked
    with a lot of Filipino programmers here, and they aren't as good as my colleagues in India... Though of course I also encountered some with so so
    skills, and to think they're marketing themselves as experts, which I can
    easily spot now since I know what I'm looking for, and have also noticed
    the great guys I work with charge reasonably higher rates than those who
    lack the expertise I need: For instance, I regularly work with an
    independent subcontractor colleague of mine for software projects, and he
    charges $20/hour, while others telling everybody they have the skills to complete projects, though don't in reality, charge $8/hour tops...

    Advice: For content writing, marketing and SEO/SEM tasks among others
    requiring English communication skills, the Philippines is a good solution,
    though I'd still go to locals of your target demographic for copywriting and developing advertising materials... As for tech-related tasks as well as software projects, India, once you pay rates matching the expertise you
    need, will be a better option than going to the Philippines... Hope this helps...
  • I personally use the Philippines for all of my full time hires. This includes people who do website work, keyword research, product research, article writing, review writing, etc.

    I LOVE the Philippines. Their English is great, and they want a JOB, not a freelance position, for the most part. They want you to hire them full time and treat them well. I haven't experienced that same culture in India. I find India is great for hiring freelancers on one-off jobs. For example I want to build an iPad app in one of my main markets and I'll likely go to India because I simply have not seen as many good coders in the Philippines. I could be wrong because I've never hired an app developer yet.

    Anyway, I highly recommend the Philippines, but hire people full time! It's better for your business.
  • If it's for a job that requires a decent command of the English language, I have India on my ban list. I don't know why the English taught in India is so bad, but it is.

    I do notice one thing: The guys I know from India that have a good command of the English language are in much higher-level jobs and careers.
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    • I'm at the stage in my businesses growth where I just hire people and not outsource much. For small tasks, or what I call "bucket work" - things I don't want to do or assign, I will outsource. If I can't afford to do it within China (which is what I usually do since I work within the Chinese market) due to people who speak good English within China usually cost about the wage of someone in America, I tend to outsource to the Philippines. The Philippines seem to be better connected to both China's and Western culture, have a better understanding of our language which is important, and mannerisms.

      Another thing is the noticeable difference between skilled labor. In India, the quality of work for $100 is the same you would get for $300 and that is not a good thing, while in the Philippines, the difference is much more apparent which gives me a sense of reliability, or knowing what I am paying for.
    • It is British english in India not US english.

      It is centre and not center.. colour and not color.

      It might be the trouble for you?
    • Jay, I was thinking something very similar.

      Russ' question would have got so much real value in response
      if it had been worded:

      "Who are the VAs in India and the Philippines whom you have
      worked with and consider good value for money?"

      Then, people who have outsourced to either place could have
      suggested SPECIFIC people or companies, and this might have
      grown into a very valuable thread to bookmark for future use.

      Loaded with personal and anecdotal opinions, as it has, there
      is precious little of value to any serious outsourcer or a
      small business owner who faces the choice between a few dozen
      million and a few hundred million potential workers to pick
      from!

      In one of Cyril Northcote Parkinson's books, I first read the
      importance of a correctly worded advertisement. It won't
      attract plenty of prospects - but those (or even the single
      one) it does will be PERFECT for your needs.

      I'll bow out of this discussion with this comment

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      • [2] replies
  • To be honest, I don't think the country really matters. If you can find someone who can deliver high quality in a reasonable time at a reasonable price, that is what is important. I have used writers in many different countries. Hope this helps.
  • I've been a Technical support for Verizon for 3 years and I can speak based on my experience. Yes, I am a Filipino and interacting daily with our Indian counterparts in billing department. There are some good English speakers and also not good speakers.

    In terms of "who is better" should not be an argument.
    India leads on number but behind on quality
    India vs the Philippines: Where is the Future of Outsourcing?*|*Offshoring Inc.

    If you really want to know who is better, try to hire each of them at the same time, or research the internet for surveys by think thanks.
    • [2] replies
    • Great Advice.

      Personally, I have had great success with Philippine Workers. Never got around to trying Indian Workers. Perhaps I'll work with one someday and who knows.. Maybe I'll use him again.
    • GREAT point. One that anyone who outsources regularly will understand
      intuitively, or learn the hard way very fast!

      I outsource my online work to South Africa and U.S.A., btw. And don't find
      great help first shot out of the box. It takes trial and error. Every 'failure'
      takes you closer to success.

      Both India and Philippines have a HUGE pool of available talent, which makes
      it easier to LOCATE a suitable worker to test out.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
  • Philippines. I really dont have any good experience with Indians. Seriously, the people I hired are for one-off deals only and they are not interested to finish the task I have given to them. But Filipinos are different. They have a good attitude at work, very responsive and they love new tasks and they are more than willing to learn new things. Their raters are so acceptable and is worth it.

    Andrea
    • [1] reply
    • Indian freelancers are easy to find but I haven't yet found many Filipinos I can choose from. Is anyone willing to share some tips of how to find some work from home Filipinos?
  • I started with india as almost everybody does and I was almost always disapointed, especailly with the dealines. I don't think they really understand that concept.

    then I switch to the philipines. I have 2 philipinos full time I think I'm going to hire 2 more for $250 a month full time. and they're extremely good

    I think the main problem with india is that they all work with firms so they are really not involved or concerned with your company. they not they will get another job if it doesn't work out.

    for the philipino, it's the opposite. they almost all work from home, no firms and they are extremely loyal to you. you're like their god. they respect you a lot. they want to do their best for you and they're completely 100% involved and want you to succeed.

    One of my worker from the philipines works until 2 or 3am (for him) so we can chat and he can be faster at his task. it's perfect for me because I don't like to wait a day for an email. he's always online. I tell him to go to bed but he refuses becuase he wants to work with me.

    You have to be cool too as a boss. I've found if you show you're a cool boss for an indian, they don't care at all. If you show you're a cool boss to a philipno, they're going to love and respect you even more.
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  • All I can say if when it comes to english,

    I guess I prefer Philippines.

    Thanks!
  • I think if I had to chose I will go with the Philippines.
    No offense.
  • It is better to outsource to Phillipines coz Indians themselves are outsourcing some tasks and finding better ways to outsource..

    Who knows the person who you outsource to India may soon become your competitor

    this is the truth for today..
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  • I've had good luck with programmers in India, for most other outsourced tasks I use the Philippines.
  • Just for the record, I didn't mean for this thread to turn into World War 3. Just sayin'.

    Russ
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  • I have used both for outsourcing and I find that the key to a good relationship is showing them exactly what you want and explaining in great detail on how you want things done. This will save a lot of headache down the line
  • Yes. Philippines has overtaken the India as the BPO capital of the world.. Mabuhay mga kababayan!
  • Philippines. They speak and understand English much better on average. Especially if you can do a good Arnold voice. In the Philippines the only two movies that seem to exist is Terminator and Predator.
  • I heard the Philippines also.
  • I've hired dozens of people in the Philippines and maybe 8 in India.

    Not one of the people in India worked out. There was always a problem:
    1. Lying - didn't tell me the truth
    2. Trying to cheat me and blackmail
    3. Not able to do the job

    There are actually fantastic people in India, but as a foreigner hiring remotely you are less likely to find them unless you have direct access or referrals from people on the ground. So it really depends on who you know. If you hire the right people I know it can work (not for me, but it does work for other people that I know)
  • Whoever can give you the best rates and quality of work. I have had luck in both countries.
  • I would prefer you will select from Philippines. That is because Filipinos are very hardworking and can work with less supervision.
  • Frankly, I think what Dr.Mani says makes sense.

    Being from India myself, I have quite a few Americans doing stuff for me. Some do them well, some are abysmal, and some are plain rotten. I've been ripped of by some of them too.

    But I would never generalise and say all Americans are bad.

    The social characteristics of the country shapes individual behaviour and work methods. If everyone was same as you, there would be no need for so many people, would there?
  • Russ,

    Cutting through all sweeping generalizations in the thread....

    I think the most relevant question for you would be - How To Hire The Most Effective VAs or Outsource workers?

    I believe the country does not matter.

    I know someone whose best outsourcer is in Siberia. Another person I met gets his articles written (in English) by an outsource freelancer from a small town in China.

    So, for every generalization there is somebody out there that breaks the mould.

    The point is you can find the most amazing talent hidden in the most unexpected places as long as you don't limit your search to one particular country.

    ... and definitely do not limit it based on some sweeping generalizations.

    Philippines and India both have amazing and talented people. I've worked with wonderful outsourced workers from both countries..... and I've had my share of bad experiences too....... get this...... from both countries.

    ..... and I've also had my share of bad experiences outsourcing to folks in the U.S, Canada and Eastern Europe.

    I try not to generalize my bad experiences because I've also had good experiences.... if I worked with the right people.

    The bottom line is this - A good worker is a person. Bringing his/her own talent, skill, work ethic and integrity to the table. Their nationality is not a factor.

    Good Apples and Bad Apples can be found everywhere.

    Don't focus on the country of origin. Focus on what's important for your business and for the position you are looking to hire -
    • Good Skills
    • Good Communication
    • Timely Delivery
    • Good Work Ethic
    • Great Rates


    Ultimately, the point of outsourcing is to get the job done at great rates. Does it matter which country the person is located in? ..... as long as they have the tools and infrastructure to perform their work and deliver their work to you.

    The reality is when you hire freelancers there is going to be bit of a trial and error process to find the right ones. That's where your screening and hiring process comes in. It should be designed to weed off the workers not suitable for the job and get the ones best suited.

    If you follow a clear system, your chances of finding the right outsourced talent quickly will be much higher.

    Ultimately, it boils down to two basic things -
    1. Ability To Deliver .... and
    2. Price

    I run an outsourcing company based in the U.S with my Core Team in India. I have also used outsourced talent from different countries for different types of tasks for some of my other projects. So, I've seen communication problems, cultural differences and other barriers when you outsource overseas .....anywhere.

    Ultimately, I've learned to focus on the hiring process to source the best talent at a price that fits my budget wherever they are.

    So, my suggestion is to ignore the debate on which is the best country to outsource and just focus on getting the right candidates for the job at a price that you are willing to pay....

    ........you may even be surprised where you find them.

    - Jay
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  • For me Philippines is better they speak English fluently or shall i say much better than Indians. much cheaper also imo.
  • If you ask me, I'll go with Philippines. Not only do they speak well in English but I hear they are good when it comes to work.
  • It does not matter, I generally find that the Philippines are easier to come by and cost a lot less. It is a hit and miss industry that costs around $10 to test.
  • I guess location doesnt matter as long as you have hired a professional and skillful person that fullfill your requirements.

    If you would just focus on location, i would say INDIA is no doubt the biggest market in the world in outsourcing after Philippine.

    Guys, we are talking about Philippine and India. What about Pakistan? Has anyone outsourced any project to Pakistan? And how was your experience? It is also emerging market although they have a situation going on at the moment. We have hired a VA from Pakistan and he did a great job.
  • I am definitely biased as my wife is from the Philippines. I have a great respect for the loyalty and work ethic of Filipinos
    • [1] reply
    • I have to say that I am surprised to see that this thread is still so active. And although I get that the OP is specifically comparing India and the Philippines, it crosses my mind that we are setting a bad example for the less experienced marketers that follow these threads and forums and take our words as gospel. I won't rehash my previous post as I have made my opinion clear but I felt I wanted to say that all should remember that the best we can do here is share our own experiences and no one has the perfect answer to any question. If you are very new to Internet Marketing keep this in mind.
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  • Wow..Didnt expect this kind of a thread to exist in a professional forum.

    Well, I am from India and I have good command of my english and my height is around 5 feet 10 inch. I like pizzas and I enjoy the weekend with my friends. Duh..
  • I've never hired anyone from the Phillipines.

    What I can say is that EVERYONE I have worked with from India has been an absolute pleasure to deal with. They have all done exactly what they promised and one thing I LOVE about their nature is the fact that they are so friendly and welcoming no matter what the situation.

    Perhaps why one of my closest friend is from India now I think about it!
  • I would go with the Philippines if possible. They just have a better attitude toward service. They go the extra mile in performing menial duties while the Indians I have had work for me are strict and hard to bend. Just my experience. Even on cruise ships I have been on there seem to be a certain gravitation toward employing philippines as they work with a smile generally and are most pleasant to deal with compared to the Indian waiters who are mostly straight faced as if they do not want to be there. This is just my observation and my appologies to any Indian warrior in the room.
  • I am new to alot of areas but I must say that The Filipinos win hands down. I had one via odesk.com and she is a very hard worker. She has done some tasks for me while I was taking classes and had a very hectic schedule. Now, I am going to try the WF and see if there are some good sources here to follow up on. One such source seems to provide this type of service and I am one to at least try..........until it gets right.
  • If you are looking to be ripped off or deal with lazy incompetent people, I'm sure either Country would do fine.

    The point being you can find good people and bad people in any group. I've worked with Indians that are wonderful, loyal, happy, and honest. I've worked with Filipinos that are the same. I've also seen the flip side in each Country.

    It comes down to the individual, their character, your interaction with them, and mostly how you treat them. One person's bad employee is another person's star.

    By the way, you can't trust anyone from Utah.
  • I've hired good and bad from both countries. It's not an issue of nationality, it's an issue if they can get the job done, whoever they are and where they are form. I always go to odesk first, as I know there are tons of people on there looking for work, and although I'll get a lot of applications from people who have no proof of being able to do the job, I'll get the few I need to choose from to do the job. You've really got to be smart about choosing an outsourcer, and choose one who has good feedback.
  • I think both are equal but it's up to you. I have tried with an indian so far and im satisfied even though the results are yet to come.
  • Philippines all the way.
  • There is mention here of finding skilled Phillipino programmers and writers for $250 - $800 per month.

    Cruising around Odesk.com, I just don't see this. The resumes listed for qualified developers and programs want between $20 - $60 per hour.

    What gives? For people who have actually hired and used at length skilled Phillipino programmers and developers, where do you find them?


    Terry
    • [1] reply
    • Hmmm... All hasty generalizations are false, including this one...
      So now for my own set of opinions:

      1. Hired someone who did crap work? Improve your formulated manpower
      marketing, testing and hiring processes. Pay this person for his or her
      time. You wasted this person's time. Not the other way around. You gave
      tasks the person does not have the right knowledge and skill sets to do...

      2. Hired someone who suddenly disappeared in the middle of a project? Improve your manpower marketing, testing, hiring, training, managerial,
      promotion, reward/incentive, and work-life environment balance systems.

      The person could've been motivated and challenged enough to stick with
      you, if you provided excellent reward systems and assigned challenging
      tasks...

      3. Don't usually get the right people to test nor a substantial volume of
      interested applicants? Improve your manpower marketing and wage charting systems. Consider a sign up bonus, payable
      in staggered payments. Consider incentives in place of regular employee
      benefits...

      4. Your business development, growth and expansion plans,
      product/service marketing, sales projections and results should match your
      manpower marketing, testing, hiring and training systems among other
      processes mentioned above...

      People interested in working with you need to think and feel your
      corporation or company or business or home business is stable enough to
      provide them long term employment...

      You have plans... They also have their own plans... So if you can't inspire
      them on the get-go:

      Formulate character developmental sessions aiming to instill a unified
      annual corporate goal-personal goal mindset into everyone working with
      you...

      This will align their personal objectives with the goals of your business...
      And your business goals with their own plans...

      Those are my relevant opinions, formulated using my experience, research,
      observations, test result analysis and inferences. The foundation of these opinions were initially formed and will constantly change with:

      1. Worked as a $200/month online content marketing researcher/writer at
      a local IM/MMO outsourcing firm 6 years ago, for more than 10 months.
      Why? No available opportunities for someone who just went totally blind. Besides: Considered English research and writing as a straightforward task.

      2. Asked my employer for 8 additional daily 2000++-word quotas after my
      first 3 weeks, 2 of which I outsourced to my friends and provided editing
      work. Why? No offers nor different challenging tasks from my employer.
      Had plans for career growth and expansion. Needed the money...

      3. Contacted a prominent North American corporation in the system
      security industry, while simultaneously working with the local outsourcing
      firm. Why? Implemented my career growth and expansion plans.

      4. Landed another post as an online content marketing
      researcher/writer with them. Worked with them for months, doing
      quadruple daily quotas. Gave up my day job to explore more avenues for faster career growth and expansion...

      5. Signed up an outsourcing, content development, content marketing and
      SEO/SEM consultancy agreement with them, after a few months of
      internal work for them...

      6. Officially registered a company. People I worked with grew from 4 work
      at home moms and dads -- me, my wife and 2 friends -- to 90 employees,
      30 subcontractors, 2 head offices and 9 provincial offices across the
      Philippines, 3 months after company registration...

      Just sharing so you could decide if my opinions could most likely be helpful
      in growing and expanding your businesses...
  • If its article writing, you will get a better bang for your buck if you try Africa as well. Its like looking for a needle in a haystack but if you score, its bound to be quite substantial.

    I am working with individuals trying to assemble that resource now. Will keep you posted when it matures.

    Kipper
  • I had a very good experience with an article writer from Kenya.
  • * No hard feelings *

    but why some of the people above r considering INDIA as full of dumb people ?? , for ur kind information , INDIA has the most Hard working people and most intelligent people

    @Op
    Hire an INDIAN , i promise you you wont regret
  • How about outsource in your own country (whatever country that is) and help your own economy?

    Yes, I know...business is business and money is money but I only "outsource" in the US of A.

    ileneg
    • [1] reply
    • If I did that exclusively, I would hardly profit enough to sustain my business through rocky moments and allow for growth. Not from overhead, but because my American employees don't bring me in as much as my Chinese workers do. (this is also why I pay my Chinese employees an American wage)

      Last 10 or so times I hired American freelancers to perform simple and rather unskilled tasks for weeks or months, I was met with a bunch of excuses as to why they couldn't perform their work, and the best part... "because $16/hour isn't much in CA for data entry, so either pay me more or I'm not going to do it" - outsourced someone else for $6/hr and met my expectations.

      However, this is for stuff like data entry and "product pulling" which is eCommerce related. This is stuff anyone can do if they are taught to. Skilled labor such as programming that requires some creative thought meshed with programming logic- because lets be honest, when you need to create some piece of software and you have no real programming experience you won't know everything you want and likely don't have the time to walk a developer by the hand through something... so for skilled labor, I go with the U.S.
  • If you want to hire article writer VA then hire from philippines. In India, most of the good English writers have good job , they would not work for $250 per month. They would expect $1000 - $1500

    I am from India, It is cheaper for me to hire article writers from other countries, i have two VA's from Nigeria.
  • I recommend using a company that provides the following:

    Has workers based in Canada and the USA.
    Does not outsource any of its work.
    Is able to compete price wise with those based in the Philippines and India.
    Staff members are native English speakers.
    Work is handled with utmost professionalism and quality.

    Yes, this type of company does exist.

    Of course, I know a lot of people now have the mindset that using a company based in the Philippines or India is more cost effective, but I wanted to do my part and speak up for a company based in North America. I mean no offence to anyone by what I have stated within this message. Thank you.
  • Somalia...
  • I once worked with a programmer from the Philippians and he started working, delayed, delayed and then quit.
  • I've had wonderful experience with my assistants from the Philippines. I actually prefer not to use a "group" because my experience with a "group" was not good (took a MONTH to get the first page of my website created) - too many people working on it, and not enough expertise.

    So I'm not very familiar with groups, but if I had equal candidates from the Philippines and India, I'd choose the Philippines every time.
  • I wonder why this thread is still active. Its true that many people from different countries dont like India, and the only reason is that Indians have migrated to their countries and taken up their job.

    But they dont understand the simple thing that you get a job by merit and skills and not by nationality.

    A sincere request to the moderator to remove this thread. We are here to discuss internet marketing and not which country is good and which one is bad.
  • "Most Filipino's have a degree education."

    LOL...as if Indians dont have ?
  • Touche - I wrote that in such a rage that perhaps the instant reaction was kickback and worded inappropriately.

    Still, what preceeded that comment was lot of anti Indian comments which are very offensive to me as being of Indian descent. My reaction was to hit back, which perhaps was not wise. Anyone who has experienced racism will perhaps understand my reaction.

    I stand firmly behind the other arguments i made.
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    Outsourcing: India or the Philippines?

    Hey everyone, It's time for me to hire a full-time VA or five. Who out there is doing this? Do you go with India or the Philippines? I've heard that Philippines is the way to go, but I'd like to have the security of a large firm that can delegate tasks to other people if one VA gets sick/bails/etc.