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Frank Kerns Methods FAILED ME!!??? Need your input on this guy!

by JayInOrlando
49 replies
After seeing the great reviews of FK's (as I like to call him) videos, I decided to have a look at them and I was amazed at the quality of them. These things are goldmines, wow! He gave away lot of free info on them.

So I put his stuff into action. Here is what I did:

I wrote up a test email.
I call it my "Frank Kerns Bad News Email Test" in my email tracking account.

I phrased the email headline to indicate that I had some "Bad News" about my own product. I figured this would draw attention and give a "rubber neck" effect.

I used his 3 basic "explain what you want, what you got, what you want them to do" method.

I used some testimonials of people who were having success with my product to speak for me. I added his ideas of getting into peoples mind by answering upfront that I was not trying to sell them anything in this email. I then finished by saying that the bad news was that I forgot to give out a discount code in my last email. So, here is the code.. and a link to the site where you could learn more about the product.

I then sent the email out to my list of 68 people.
Of those 68 people:

:confused: 13.24% opened the email.
:confused: 2.9% clicked on the link (URL to my site)
:confused: 2.94% unsubscribed
:confused: 4.4% of the emails bounced back

No one has yet to use the discount code to make a purchase.

So, what do you think?
Did Frank Kerns methods fail me?
Was my mailing list size just not small enough to gauge the results?

Anyone care to JV on a larger size mailing list to test this?

Jay
#failed #frank kern #guy #input #methods
  • Profile picture of the author TimGross
    Sending 68 people an email as a test is waaaaaaay too small of a sample group.

    The only way to make sense of your open/clickthrough rates is to gauge them relative to other things you've emailed them. The stats taken by themselves don't reveal anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Jay, your test size is way too small to get any meaningful numbers out of
      it.

      It's that simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author JayInOrlando
      Sadly, this is a newer list so I've only been able to build it to 68 people. But it's a list of people who have bought from me in the past. So nothing blind or anything like that.

      So far, compared to other ways I've marketed to them. I could count on 2 or 3 sales from those 68 people.

      No it's not in the Make Money or Get Rich areas.

      Anyone care to explore this with a larger list? I'd love to test out this email.
      Need something in the health or weight loss areas.

      Jay

      Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

      Sending 68 people an email as a test is waaaaaaay too small of a sample group.

      The only way to make sense of your open/clickthrough rates is to gauge them relative to other things you've emailed them. The stats taken by themselves don't reveal anything.
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      • Profile picture of the author drmani
        Did everyone miss this?

        Originally Posted by JayInOrlando View Post

        But it's a list of people who have bought from me in the past. So nothing blind or anything like that.

        Jay
        A sample of 68 BUYERS is definitely enough to run a 'test'.

        All success
        Dr.Mani
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        • Profile picture of the author ConversionTime
          Originally Posted by drmani View Post

          Did everyone miss this?



          A sample of 68 BUYERS is definitely enough to run a 'test'.

          All success
          Dr.Mani
          Might be enough people to have a good 'test' but not worth deciding that a guru is good or not.
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        • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
          Dr Mani,

          If you look at the time stamp on the earlier posts, you should notice they were posted seconds apart, so we had no way of knowing if he mailed to this list before until after most of us already posted.

          So yeah, some of us missed it!
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          • Profile picture of the author Domnic Patric
            Banned
            [DELETED]
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            • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
              Dr Mani, you used to have thousands of posts and the account dissapeared - what happened?
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by drmani View Post

          Did everyone miss this?



          A sample of 68 BUYERS is definitely enough to run a 'test'.

          All success
          Dr.Mani

          FINALLY, I have a buddy. I was starting to feel lonely.
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          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
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          • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
            I also tried the technique and landed a massive 17.2% open rate with a 7.5% CTR. Not horrid... but to this day the single greatest subject line I have ever used which had a 23.4% open rate was...

            NAME, buy this.

            As you can see, I don't have the "selling from the back of my heels" issue.

            During Franks little thing this last week I ran a 3 day test run on a new product.

            139 sales in 3 days. (small list of under 3000 people)

            Email: #1: what went wrong?? (Disaster) 17.2%/7.5% CTR

            Email #2: NAME, buy this. I'm not kidding. 23.4%/12.8%CTR

            Email #3: NAME, FINAL WARNING 15.0%/6.8%CRT

            That's it.

            Sent the same email 3 times with diff subject line and a slight copy change to the first paragraph to follow the new subject.

            Did pretty well.

            But for those who know, this is a variation of the 4 day cash machine.

            It's something he talks about in the DVD's during his live Mass Control seminar which I have found to work time after time after time.

            Other subject lines that work very well for me are:

            NAME, NEW video watch now

            and my personal new favorite...

            NAME, Alex Goad Eats Cats (Video Proof)
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            • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
              Oh yea... I should also ad I did not have a sales letter for the test promo.
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              • Profile picture of the author JayInOrlando
                Thanks everyone for all the advice.

                Just to answer some questions. No, I was not promoting anything in the make money area. My email list had nothing to do with Frank Kern, the people on that list did not see any other offers that would have used the same "Bad News" headline. I owned the product myself, not using affiliate links.

                Yes this is a legit post, I really did email all 68 people.

                YES- I did ask if anyone wanted to JV and and help me build me list (and no I'm not ashamed to admit it.)

                I think as some of you pointed out that the list itself may be to blame. It is to small of a sample size and I think it needs to be massaged a bit more.

                I'll start sending a series of reports to the list, not selling them anything. More of an informational update on latest trends etc that could affect them. This should keep the unsubscribe rate down. I'll include a very soft sell link at the bottom, but will not hype it at all. After a few reports I'll then ramp up into a offer.

                Jay
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                • Profile picture of the author elitemarketer
                  If you look at the # of views this post has which is almost 1,000 within 14 hours (from 8pm on Sat. to 1 pm today which is obviously not prime times) it proves that "FK's" system DOES work. His subject line is using the "rubberneck effect" tactic! Frank Kerns Methods FAILED ME!!??? pretty Close to "Bad News"
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                  • Profile picture of the author drmani
                    Originally Posted by elitemarketer View Post

                    His subject line is using the "rubberneck effect" tactic! Frank Kerns Methods FAILED ME!!??? pretty Close to "Bad News"
                    Try "Elitemarketer's Methods FAILED ME!!???"



                    Dr.Mani
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                  • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
                    68 customers is a great starting point to test
                    and you should try and sell them something that
                    is similar in fashion.

                    --David
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Wilson
                      I added his ideas of getting into peoples mind by answering upfront that I was not trying to sell them anything in this email. I then finished by saying that the bad news was that I forgot to give out a discount code in my last email. So, here is the code.. and a link to the site where you could learn more about the product.
                      This really stood out for me and yet I didn't notice anyone mention this.

                      You say you told them you were not trying to sell them anything and then you give them a discount code to buy something.

                      Obviously I don't have all the details but just my first thought was that you could have lost some credibility there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
      Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

      Sending 68 people an email as a test is waaaaaaay too small of a sample group.

      The only way to make sense of your open/clickthrough rates is to gauge them relative to other things you've emailed them. The stats taken by themselves don't reveal anything.
      I'm guessing this post was made tongue-in-cheek... I guess I could be wrong though...
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      • Profile picture of the author koolwarrior
        Banned
        list is too small. buy a solo email ad or something. there are tons of good, reputable services out there.

        also, did you try creating a bonus product to give out to anyone who purchased from your link?

        that's what drives affiliate sales thru the roof when it comes to these launches by the "rich boys club"


        so what...they can buy FK's stuff from any one of the 1000 drones (affiliates) who he has under his 'mass control' (nice pun)...

        you have to give them a reason to buy from YOU


        so you know all of the affiliates are going to be plugging at this, and more than likely...your leads are probably on a bunch of their lists, also.


        what frank was trying to get at was...BE DIFFERENT!


        While everyone's hitting them with emails like...

        "My Bonus for Frank Kern's New Product"

        You come out of left field from a totally different perspective like...

        "Frank Kern ruined my project...and why YOU should be ticked off"

        ...and then talk about how...

        You were going to sell this item and totally cake it! But thanks to Frank's upcoming launch and how he has everyone drooling over it, now you have to give it out as a bonus, since you know people aren't going to buy your product now, due to the crazed pre-launch hype.


        Just be different than all of the knuckleheads who copy and paste those boring winded emails from the product owner. Show your subscribers some class and personality...and most of all...BE DIFFERENT! STOP FOLLOWING THE SHEEP!
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    • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
      Jay,

      Tim may be right, it may be too small of a test group but Frank did mention any size group can work.

      Plus, we have no way of knowing whether or not your list (group) is hot or cold!

      If a mailing list doesn't have a good relationship with the list owner, or isn't following, it will probably end up failing.

      I think Frank went into great detail explaining "Warming up the list", or at least in Denver he did ... I believe.

      Is your group loyal to you and following?

      How frequently do you mail your list?

      What do you offer your subscribers when you do send them a newsletter?

      To me, all of the above question can and does make a big difference on how well a list responds.

      All the best ...


      Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author Joel O
    Thats great that you took action! That's a lot more then what many others will do.
    And... just because it may not have went the way you wanted it to... that means next time it should be better

    I have a few questions to ask about it;

    - What market is your list in?
    If it's the "make money"/Internet marketing niche, then the lack of results could be because A LOT of other marketers have been using FK's ideas over the past week. Therefore subscribers may be getting a bit frustrated with the techniques.

    I would suggest waiting a while before trying again. After all of this FK stuff isn't so "new" and fresh anymore.

    - How new are the subscribers?
    This might impact some of the results, combined with what market they are in.

    - Have you emailed them recently before sending this FK email?
    If they havnt heard from you in a while, then this outcome could just be because they have forgotten about you.

    - Did you write in your normal style?
    Did you come across as yourself in the email, like you would normaly write? Or did you write differently because of FK's ideas?

    If you wrote differently, then that might cause some people to not feel so relaxed and friendly towards you.


    I am no expert, those are just my little thoughts

    Joel Osborne
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
    Alot of it boils down to how credible your list views you as? How were your open rates before this?

    Also, you kind of miss the point of Frank's lessons. Most people want a cookie cutter answer to their problems. There is none. He can give you direction but most likely most of his stuff isn't going to work straight out of the box. It is life.

    The key is to take his teachings (or anyone's teachings) and apply them to what you know. Extract what doesn't work and include what does. Think outside the box. Use someone else's teachings to help you format and hone your own skills

    As good as Frank Kern may be, he won't be able to help those that simply don't get it.....

    And I agree with Joel....good for you for actually taking the time to test it....you are doing what most won't even bother doing...
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  • Profile picture of the author giveusallfreedom
    Jay,

    Are you high? You can test something with only 68 subscribers. You need at least 69 dude or it will never work. Come on man. Play by the rules or don't play at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author jpuppy
    You need a way bigger list!
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Oh btw,

      To everyone who gets sucked in by the numbers...

      Frank Kern boasts his open rate in his presell content, which is cool...HOWEVER...

      Frank Kern gets an open rate of "x" amount...

      Why? Sure, because of the tactics he's sharing with you, but....

      ...don't you think it's also because of WHO HE IS?

      Comon people, wake up. Frank Kern's personal list open stats are because of who he is.

      Sure, techniques make a difference, but don't expect the same results as a multi millionaire.

      Not simply by copying his "secrets" anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author severt
        Normally 2 sales with 100 people must be doable.
        You should have gotten 1 sale.
        So maybe your product "sucks" ?
        I see a lot of people complaining that they try everything to make a sale.
        Then when I look at the product it's just junk.
        If your product is good then you don't need fancy tactics.
        Those tactics will maybe convert your offer to better sales but if you can't make 1 sale then these tactics will not do you any good.
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      • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
        Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

        Oh btw,

        To everyone who gets sucked in by the numbers...

        Frank Kern boasts his open rate in his presell content, which is cool...HOWEVER...

        Frank Kern gets an open rate of "x" amount...

        Why? Sure, because of the tactics he's sharing with you, but....

        ...don't you think it's also because of WHO HE IS?

        Comon people, wake up. Frank Kern's personal list open stats are because of who he is.

        Sure, techniques make a difference, but don't expect the same results as a multi millionaire.

        Not simply by copying his "secrets" anyway.

        Who's Frank Kern?

        TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Newsome
    Originally Posted by JayInOrlando View Post

    After seeing the great reviews of FK's (as I like to call him) videos, I decided to have a look at them and I was amazed at the quality of them. These things are goldmines, wow! He gave away lot of free info on them.

    So I put his stuff into action. Here is what I did:

    I wrote up a test email.
    I call it my "Frank Kerns Bad News Email Test" in my email tracking account.

    I phrased the email headline to indicate that I had some "Bad News" about my own product. I figured this would draw attention and give a "rubber neck" effect.

    I used his 3 basic "explain what you want, what you got, what you want them to do" method.

    I used some testimonials of people who were having success with my product to speak for me. I added his ideas of getting into peoples mind by answering upfront that I was not trying to sell them anything in this email. I then finished by saying that the bad news was that I forgot to give out a discount code in my last email. So, here is the code.. and a link to the site where you could learn more about the product.

    I then sent the email out to my list of 68 people.
    Of those 68 people:

    :confused: 13.24% opened the email.
    :confused: 2.9% clicked on the link (URL to my site)
    :confused: 2.94% unsubscribed
    :confused: 4.4% of the emails bounced back

    No one has yet to use the discount code to make a purchase.

    So, what do you think?
    Did Frank Kerns methods fail me?
    Was my mailing list size just not small enough to gauge the results?
    Anyone care to JV on a larger size mailing list to test this?

    Jay
    I think there are some results here.

    approx. 9 people opened the email = would want more opening it in the first place
    approx. 2 clicked on the link =from a former buyers list, I would again want at least more response.

    approx. 2 unsubscribed= ok, so these got pissed off about the email. Same results as some others I have heard of using this campaign. This type of "bad news" campaign works for those who can "pull it off" --I would leave this type campaign alone myself--but to each his own.
    approx. 3 or 4 emails bounced.

    Good enough results for me to want to work on this email campaign. I believe that results can be taken from small list such as this one as well as the big ones. Of course, just multiply the list size to get expected results. I think using a bigger list will get approx. the same results ratio or close.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Originally Posted by JayInOrlando View Post



    I then sent the email out to my list of 68 people.
    Of those 68 people:

    :confused: 13.24% opened the email.
    :confused: 2.9% clicked on the link (URL to my site)
    :confused: 2.94% unsubscribed
    :confused: 4.4% of the emails bounced back

    No one has yet to use the discount code to make a purchase.

    So, what do you think?
    Did Frank Kerns methods fail me?
    Was my mailing list size just not small enough to gauge the results?
    When you use the "bad news" subject line, you're testing the OPEN RATE. So the fact that you didn't make a sale doesn't matter for that test.

    And as far as I'm concerned the size of your list doesn't matter if you have average results from past promotions. Even more so because it is a CUSTOMER list. Some may argue that it's not enough to be statistically valid, but it's all you got. And the only way to improve is to measure results.
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    • Profile picture of the author dv8
      First off, I agree with most everyone else in saying that 68 isn't that big of a number to draw any conclusions.

      Also, there are so many other factors involved of why it may not have been the success you had hoped. Maybe the email overall was poorly written. Maybe the testimonials weren't well written. Maybe some clicked on the email, read the first sentence and then stopped reading, I do it all of the time!

      It could be so many things. Keep testing.

      At least you took action! Nice job!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
        You sold to 68 people. If you can upgrade whatever it was that you sold then you have a better chance at selling to them again regradless of the method you use. The after sales trick is to create a complimentry product or service that improves on the original product. If it is an eBook expand on it in volumes, i.e. Vol I, Vol II, etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Collins
          I got the promo from Frank and I get quite a few emails using this tactic. I'm completely familiar of this method and won't use it. May I add I have not bought anything from one email using this tactic. But I did save them. I didn't buy because of the subject line but because I didn't have one thing sent to me that was worth buying (hint to marketers) using this technique.

          JayInOrlando - You say above - used some "Bad News" about my own product. What did you actually use for your subject line. What you say above tells us nothing.

          We don't know what you wrote in the body of the email. I'm not a mind reader. Most people think they write a good promotion copy and don't. I'm on over 250+ lists and get a lot of emails from many top marketers and Warriors too. Most of them aren't very good either. So what's the point of this post.

          Can any one say they have used this techinque with any success. Except for John Ritz with a 50 percent conversion. (John you need to stop sending yourself emails and buying from them)
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          • Profile picture of the author Gary Huynh
            Aside from the fact that your list is way too small to gather any valid conclusions, here's what I have to say...

            A lot of people who listen to Kern's advice are not picking up the pieces here. Kern did make over 1,000,000 from a list of 7-8k people that he didn't broadcast to frequently. That is NOT the norm. He was already well known in the industry and had credibility with his list.

            Frank, like many other 'coined' gurus, have a great relationship with their list not because they provide quality content on a regular basis. They have a quality list because their subscribers have seen social proof that they're credible people.

            So if you can't provide quality content to your list on a regular basis, make sure you get others to say good things about you on a regular basis to build that social proof. How to get others to say good things about you? Just give them something to promote and put money in their bank account.

            IMO, Frank makes things seem much more simple than they really are. I'm not saying that his methods should be complicated. They are simple to execute but there's much more to getting things working than what you see him discussing. You just have to think a little.
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            • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
              Originally Posted by Gary Huynh View Post

              IMO, Frank makes things seem much more simple than they really are. I'm not saying that his methods should be complicated. They are simple to execute but there's much more to getting things working than what you see him discussing. You just have to think a little.
              I have been saying this for days...

              It is the culture behind bad news headlines that people need to see... not a copy and paste promo using the exact same formula...

              Use it to apply INTO your marketing, not AS your marketing

              Jay
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              • Profile picture of the author jhongren
                as what others have mentioned, 68 is too small.

                I did a maths calculation.

                0.13 of your list is only 8 people.

                And if 10% buys, it is only 0.8 person which is not even 1 Whole.

                You may want to send out to 680 people at list or better, 6,800.

                Cheers,
                John
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                • Profile picture of the author ConversionTime
                  Sorry I know Frank says you dont need a big list but 68 isnt enough.

                  Also how good is the list, is it a list that knows and really wants to buy from you.
                  Build that list to at least a couple of hundred then see Franks techinques work.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom Busch
              If I was to watch videos of Barry Bonds giving hitting lessons, and then go play in a major league baseball game, what do you think would happen?

              Exactly, I'd strike out every time I came up to the plate.

              List size and everything else aside, Kern likely has way more experience at this stuff than you do. Not to mention a lot more natural talent.

              I think there are a lot of unseen factors at work in people's success that can't really be easily explained or taught.

              That's not to say that Frank's techniques can't or won't work for you. They may, or may not. But I think the bottom line is that IM is not nearly as paint by numbers as most people seem to think.
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  • Profile picture of the author sarthakbehl
    YOU FORGOT ONE THING REALLY IMPORTANT HERE

    You don't sell in an email. The only purpose of an email is to get people to click on the link so that you can sell later at the site where you are sending them.

    Its as simple as that

    Originally Posted by JayInOrlando View Post

    After seeing the great reviews of FK's (as I like to call him) videos, I decided to have a look at them and I was amazed at the quality of them. These things are goldmines, wow! He gave away lot of free info on them.

    So I put his stuff into action. Here is what I did:

    I wrote up a test email.
    I call it my "Frank Kerns Bad News Email Test" in my email tracking account.

    I phrased the email headline to indicate that I had some "Bad News" about my own product. I figured this would draw attention and give a "rubber neck" effect.

    I used his 3 basic "explain what you want, what you got, what you want them to do" method.

    I used some testimonials of people who were having success with my product to speak for me. I added his ideas of getting into peoples mind by answering upfront that I was not trying to sell them anything in this email. I then finished by saying that the bad news was that I forgot to give out a discount code in my last email. So, here is the code.. and a link to the site where you could learn more about the product.

    I then sent the email out to my list of 68 people.
    Of those 68 people:

    :confused: 13.24% opened the email.
    :confused: 2.9% clicked on the link (URL to my site)
    :confused: 2.94% unsubscribed
    :confused: 4.4% of the emails bounced back

    No one has yet to use the discount code to make a purchase.

    So, what do you think?
    Did Frank Kerns methods fail me?
    Was my mailing list size just not small enough to gauge the results?
    Anyone care to JV on a larger size mailing list to test this?

    Jay
    -Sarthak
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
    Originally Posted by JayInOrlando View Post

    ...FK’s (as I like to call him)
    ...
    I then sent the email out to my list of 68 people
    ...
    :confused: 13.24% opened the email.
    :confused: 2.9% clicked on the link (URL to my site)
    :confused: 2.94% unsubscribed
    :confused: 4.4% of the emails bounced back
    ...
    So, what do you think?
    Did Frank Kerns methods fail me?
    Was my mailing list size just not small enough to gauge the results?
    ...
    Anyone care to JV on a larger size mailing list to test this?
    ...
    OK I can't help but bring this up again... am I the only one here just completely unable to take this post seriously?

    - He calls him FK (and then has some inherent need to tell us as if it's relevant)
    - Asks after ONE obvious unsatisfactory test if Frank failed him
    - Gives stats for a mailing list size anyone would think is ridiculously small
    - Says (maybe as a slip) his list might be NOT SMALL ENOUGH to gauge results
    - Then proceeds to ask someone to JV to test his results on a larger list

    jeesh..
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  • Profile picture of the author ShayB
    Hey, Jay!

    I sent you a pm.

    -----Shay )
    Signature
    "Fate protects fools, little children, and ships called Enterprise." ~Commander Riker
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