Editor stealing my entire book!

15 years ago

You should copyright it first. I have a friend in a band. They send their music to get it copyrighted straight out of the studio before they even get the tracks mastered.

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Peeps66

15 years ago

I would first send a copy to yourself through the post getting a date stamp. I don't know where you are in Europe, but if you have though post office plastic bags where the only to open them is by breaking the plastic then that would be great. Recorded/special delivery would be great. This will prove without doubt that at that date you were in possession of that material. With being able to show that you are the first person with that material, then you will prove beyond doubt that you hold the copyright. This was taught to me by a magistrate friend of mine.

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Bill Farnham

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peeps66

I would first send a copy to yourself through the post getting a date stamp. This will prove without doubt that at that date you were in possession of that material. With being able to show that you are the first person with that material, then you will prove beyond doubt that you hold the copyright. This was taught to me by a magistrate friend of mine.

If you are in the US this tactic will not carry any weight in a court of law. Period. Zip. Nada. Nothing. Zilch.

~Bill

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pjCheviot

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

If you are in the US this tactic will not carry any weight in a court of law. Period. Zip. Nada. Nothing. Zilch.

~Bill

Bill, I don't think it carries any weight anywhere - AKA "Poor Man's Copyright" - too easy to fake.

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Peeps66

15 years ago

Originally Posted by pjCheviot

Bill, I don't think it carries any weight anywhere - AKA "Poor Man's Copyright" - too easy to fake.

It certainly isn't the best way or official way to do it and is a poor man's copyright but it does prove you had it first

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pjCheviot

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peeps66

It certainly isn't the best way or official way to do it and is a poor man's copyright but it does prove you had it first

Like I said - too easy to fake - what is to stop anyone sending an empty, unsealed envelope to themselves - to be used as and when necessary?

The Copyright Registration Service - discussing the alternatives

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Charles Jones 15 years ago

Ummmm....does NOONE use contracts? I keep seeing alot of this and people are not protecting themselves by using NDA's and contracts.

I use contracts with EVERY single project I have done....and I use an escrow service for payment in addition to using a credit card (which give me more protection...ie chargeback).

If you use the proper contracts and then use someone in your country (I am in the US for instance), and they do something like that...sue the BEJESUS out of them. Yes, it is a pain and can be expensive, but you have to treat these things like a business. I am fair, but don't F with me.....you get the horns!

I have used my own contract on Elance for several years now....it has a penalty clause for being late on deliverable date and requires the loser of arbitration to pay for ALL the arbitration fees in addition to not being able to bring up the penalty clause in the arbitration. I have had to threaten to get Elance involved 2x and cited the contract...they backed down and released the escrowed payment before even going to arbitration.

You have legal options...use them....all good businesses do.

If you see your content online, use a DCMA takedown notice. I had to with a site that claimed they designed some of my dealgoblin.com website. They had my logo and everything on there like I approved their design.....ummmm NO. I sent it to them and when they did not respon, I politely sent it to their hosting (hostgator).....it was pulled for them within 48 hours by their host (or their entire site would go bye bye).

I am easy going, buy not in business. Protect yourself.
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Peeps66 15 years ago

I could be wrong but I don't believe you can send one of those gray plastic bags/envelopes that are provided by the Post Office without them being sealed. The whole point of them is to show that it is sealed and contents haven't been tampered with ie safe and secure
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Mike Hill

15 years ago

Originally Posted by pjCheviot

Like I said - too easy to fake - what is to stop anyone sending an empty, unsealed envelope to themselves - to be used as and when necessary?

The Copyright Registration Service - discussing the alternatives

Um because when you go to use it the envelope would be empty... You don't open the dam thing when you mail it to yourself. Leave it sealed... When you need to open it it should be in the courts... Just sayin :confused:

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pjCheviot

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

Um because when you go to use it the envelope would be empty... You don't open the dam thing when you mail it to yourself. Leave it sealed... When you need to open it it should be in the courts... Just sayin :confused:

Hi Mike

Many thanks for that!

I fully understand what sending an empty envelope to yourself entails! You obviously missed my point.

What I was implying was that it is too easy for anyone to mail an empty envelope to themselves so that at any time in the future they can fill it with whatever material they like (original OR edited!). It can then be sealed before any Court hearing and deemed to have been posted whenever the datestamp shows. Hence the fact that the use of this method in certain Countries - the so-called Poor Man's Copyright - has no legal standing. As far as I am aware, there is no provision in the copyright law regarding this type of protection.

Hope that clarifies things.

"Just sayin"

P.S. IANAL - nor have I played one on TV!

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Peeps66

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

If you are in the US this tactic will not carry any weight in a court of law. Period. Zip. Nada. Nothing. Zilch.

~Bill

It may in the rest of Europe where he lives. It is just a way of proving that you had it first. As long as you don't open it of course.

I must say I'm surprised about that in the US. I've heard that in the US something can be claimed as copyrighted the minute you write it and you don't even need to put 'copyrighted' on. perhaps I've heard wrong. Do you not think this is a good way to prove you had it first. If there is any battle, the parcel can be opened in court with a date stamp.

It may be in the UK with the Post Office being publically owned it has more official weight

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Alexa Smith

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peeps66

I've heard that in the US something can be claimed as copyrighted the minute you write it and you don't even need to put 'copyrighted' on. perhaps I've heard wrong.

No, you've heard right.

And that's true in most other countries, too.

But it isn't relevant, here. This issue doesn't relate to copyright ownership: it relates to evidence of copyright ownership.

If you file for "formal copyright registration", it's not the copyright you're paying for: you already owned that the moment you finished creating the work. It's the registration - documented proof that will (usually) stand up in the event of a future dispute.

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Peeps66

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

No, you've heard right.

And that's true in most other countries, too.

But it isn't relevant, here. This issue doesn't relate to copyright ownership: it relates to evidence of copyright ownership.

If you file for "formal copyright registration", it's not the copyright you're paying for: you already owned that the moment you finished creating the work. It's the registration - documented proof that will (usually) stand up in the event of a future dispute.

International Law is a real mindfield isn't it! All I said in the beginning was that a Magistrate friend of mine (I'm in the UK!) stated that this method is a cheap way of proving that the document(s) belonged to you first. This is not a registered copyright but would prove beyond doubt that it was yours first.

As well as Law, postal systems and policies vary greatly throughout the world. I am of the mindset that if it was good enough for a magistrate then it was good enough for me. Having said that, I haven't copyrighted and material

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gjabiz

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peeps66

International Law is a real mindfield isn't it! All I said in the beginning was that a Magistrate friend of mine (I'm in the UK!) stated that this method is a cheap way of proving that the document(s) belonged to you first. This is not a registered copyright but would prove beyond doubt that it was yours first.

As well as Law, postal systems and policies vary greatly throughout the world. I am of the mindset that if it was good enough for a magistrate then it was good enough for me. Having said that, I haven't copyrighted and material

Having a registered copyright, trademark or even a patent doesn't prevent it from being stolen...

it only allows you to pursue a legal remedy iffin someone does steal it.

Some of you toss around the word "sue" as if it were an easy and cost effective thing to do...when was the last time YOU hired an attorney to protect your Intellectual Property?

ONE example is a 7 year lawsuit of a patent protection case which cost over 800,000 to defend. You got deep pockets?

OF course, for a new book, perhaps a small claims court might be nuisance enough to keep the thief at bay.

LOOK, even giants like Apple, Microsoft and IBM get entangled with million dollar lawsuits over their intellectual property...

HAVING a registered copyright does help in the event you have to bring a lawsuit...and there is insurance you can get to protect your businesses...

but truthfully...

Even a registered copyright and an attorney on retainer isn't going to stop a thief...by the time they get the first cease and desist order, they may have taken all of your profits from the market.

A professional editor will sign a contract and will also protect themselves, perhaps with an indemnification clause, something sorely lacking in the PLR world...

but I am not a lawyer, I do advise you to contact one that specializes in Intellectual Property if this is a real concern. One reason to try the OLD mainstream way of publishing your work, the publishing houses have this part covered.

Hire a PRO editor and make sales. OWN the market with quality information that only you can provide and build on.

The truth is... a good idea COULD be stolen, but you can't protect your ideas, just your actual work.

I suggest you spend some time at writer's forums going over the legal sections and understanding what Copyright really is, OK?

gjabiz

PS. I personally would never buy any PLR without indemnification by the author.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peeps66

As well as Law, postal systems and policies vary greatly throughout the world. I am of the mindset that if it was good enough for a magistrate then it was good enough for me.

I follow the logic of the suggestion, entirely.

One potential difficulty is that clearly it can only ever be used once.

The other "poor person's proof of copyright" method I've heard of is to deposit a copy with a lawyer and get a signed, dated receipt for it. (That's perhaps more a "Lawyer's friend's method" than a "poor person's method", though).

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Peeps66

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I follow the logic of the suggestion, entirely.

One potential difficulty is that clearly it can only ever be used once.

The other "poor person's proof of copyright" method I've heard of is to deposit a copy with a lawyer and get a signed, dated receipt for it. (That's perhaps more a "Lawyer's friend's method" than a "poor person's method", though).

I would say more than one legal battle over a new book by a new author is more than anyone could go through don't you. I'm sure when something like this has been through the courts then nobody would want to touch it with a barge pole

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Gail_Curran 15 years ago

Professional editors don't steal others' work.
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- 1 reply
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- IMWinner 15 years ago
  
  It is difficult to point out a genuine editor from one who wants to reap where they did not sow. It would be advisable to look for the past references of the editor.
  
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JamesGw

15 years ago

Just copyright it. Most editors won't steal your work, though. They wouldn't want that negative exposure or possible lawsuit.

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Kecia

15 years ago

Hire a professional editor that has lots of experience and testimonials to back it up. Someone who is serious about their business will not steal your work.

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Fernando Veloso

15 years ago

In Portugal we use Sociedade Portuguesa de Autores. 150€ and you're legally protected worldwide, and the SPA takes care of every case in court with specialized lawyers.

Cool huh? We can be the trash can of Europe, but our copyright issues are secure.

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Bill Farnham

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peeps66

It may in the rest of Europe where he lives. It is just a way of proving that you had it first. As long as you don't open it of course.

I must say I'm surprised about that in the US. I've heard that in the US something can be claimed as copyrighted the minute you write it and you don't even need to put 'copyrighted' on. perhaps I've heard wrong. Do you not think this is a good way to prove you had it first. If there is any battle, the parcel can be opened in court with a date stamp.

It may be in the UK with the Post Office being publically owned it has more official weight

The Post Office is Government owned in the US, as well. And in the US you are automatically granted copyrights over your own work at the moment of creation and putting into a tangible form.

However, if somebody wants to contest the validity of your copyright it's best to have the ability to legally prove you have those rights. You can't contest a copyright infringement suit unless you've registered your copyright. And you can do that even years later.

As far as walking into a court of law, at least here in the States, with a sealed envelope and claiming the envelope has never been opened and therefore the date stamp proves who was in possession first you would also have to prove before that court that the particular envelope you used has a proven legal history of having a tamperproof seal that would show positive evidence of prior openings as well as the inability to go through the Postal process without being completely sealed.

But even if you did all that the US court system pertaining to copyright law has already invalidated that method by means of not recognizing it as a legitimate proof.

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

It says "Europe" under his name.

I believe the candlewax technique still has some merit too. I remember reading a UK book about getting published and it had that listed in there.

And folks in the US also read this forum. That's why I mentioned "If you are in the US".

And who's to say no one would ever remelt wax using the candlewax technique? What did they do, lose the seal?

~Bill

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Peeps66

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

As far as walking into a court of law, at least here in the States, with a sealed envelope and claiming the envelope has never been opened and therefore the date stamp proves who was in possession first you would also have to prove before that court that the particular envelope you used has a proven legal history of having a tamperproof seal that would show positive evidence of prior openings as well as the inability to go through the Postal process without being completely sealed.

~Bill

That's what these envelopes/bags were designed for. You can't open them without ruining the bag.

As some people have already stated, to fight a case is extremely expensive. You have to trust at least some people. Their reputation is far more important to them than a new book from a new author.

The chances are that somebody editing the book hasn't the slightest interest in the material. Their expertise is in editing not promoting a book especially when falsely claiming to be the author and risking their reputation

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Jack Duncan

15 years ago

Congrats on getting your book completed.

Alexa is correct on this one.

In the U.S. copyright covers both published and unpublished original works. And your book would fall under that.

However, registration of copyright is good for many reasons.

I'm not sure how different the laws are in Europe vs. the U.S., but a good, easy to understand FAQ on U.S. copyright can be found here: U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright in General (FAQ)

Wish you the best on your new book!

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Fernando Veloso

15 years ago

OP can use Google to search for "country + authors copyright" in his native language. Perhaps it's the most effective way to find out how to protect his work.

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wordydiva

15 years ago

A copyright is a good idea, but as mentioned if someone is seriously determined to steal your idea you may end up in trouble.

You can try using a non-disclosure agreement, and also try to find a local editor to work with you. If the thought of someone stealing your idea is causing you a lot of stress, being able to meet face to face with an editor who lives near you might help alleviate some of your fears.

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Kate Campbell 15 years ago

If you used for example Elance.com or somethings like that, you should have a "agreement" there. Just contact support.
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Charles Jones 15 years ago

that was why I said using people in your own country is a good idea for most of the "heavy lifting work" like editing. This allows your contracts to carry more weight....trust me, threatening to sue someone in India from the US is pointless.

I have sued someone here in the US for development (or lack thereof)....yeah it was a PITA. but it was handled in small claims (it was <$10K). Collecting, well that is another issue, but it you are using a reputable company (for the US, check your states corporate registry and the better business bureau). This will help to weed out some of the fly by nights, since BBB costs to join. And sometimes you have to sue...part of business.

The things is this....do a bit of homework on who you are using, get your copyright, even if not in the US since many times this is a huge market for you anyways, use contracts, and go for it. Business is funny, at some point you will have to sue or get sued if you are successful. Keep a good attorney or make sure you can get one. Use DCMA if in the states to keep stuff taken down. It really is not all that bad until you become alot bigger, so don't let all this frighten you...

Good luck!
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tpw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Undercovercash

Hello guys

I have just finished written my first book that I am going to publish through amazon. It is going to be a real hardcover book and is about 150 pages.

I need to find an editor to edit it and make sure everything is right but I just thought to myself. How can I ensure that the editor doesn't just steal my entire book and put his own name on it?

All tips highly appreciated.

Hire a professional editor, not one from elance.

You can get a poorman's copyright, by putting the transcript -- or probably burned CD with transcript on it -- in an envelope and mail it to yourself.

That has been tested in court as proof that you had the copy before the editor, if litigation becomes necessary.

I only see a problem if you hire a $5 article writer to edit your book.

But real editors only want to be paid for their time.

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Bill Farnham

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

You can get a poorman's copyright, by putting the transcript -- or probably burned CD with transcript on it -- in an envelope and mail it to yourself.

That has been tested in court as proof that you had the copy before the editor, if litigation becomes necessary.

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tpw 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

Yeah, I know....

That is what happens when you read the first post and hit reply...

Or was I just skimming? :p
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- Richard Van 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  Yeah, I know....
  
  That is what happens when you read the first post and hit reply...
  
  Or was I just skimming? :p
  
  Noooooooooooooooooo.
  
  Bill, you don't do that! You never skim threads! My good grief I can't believe I've witnessed this - Quick....pay that nice Mr Farnham and ask him to delete his post and yours.
  
  Anyway, in terms of the envelope, that's no good. Just Tattoo the name of the book to your forehead and the day you completed it. That's how we do it here.
  
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  Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...
  
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azmanar 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

............lol ...

funny bloke ......... roflmao
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Undercovercash

15 years ago

Wow A lot of different views.

It gets even more tricky since I don't have a permanent place where I live and have been travelling the world for the last couple of years. I guess the way to go is to get a real professional editor, Does anyone have any people they can recommend before I go Google searching?

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

For those who may not know, you can register a copyright in the US entirely online.

U.S. Copyright Office - Online Services (eCO: Electronic Copyright Office)

Paul

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drmani

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Undercovercash

Hello guys

I have just finished written my first book that I am going to publish through amazon. It is going to be a real hardcover book and is about 150 pages.

I need to find an editor to edit it and make sure everything is right but I just thought to myself. How can I ensure that the editor doesn't just steal my entire book and put his own name on it?

All tips highly appreciated.

Several issues here:

#1 - WHY would an 'editor' steal your content? An editor EDITS.
A writer WRITES. A publisher PUBLISHES. An editor might want to
'steal' your editing clients - or get you to refer them new ones.

#2 - All along the line of publishing your content, there is the
potential for ANYONE to steal your work. What prevents a publisher
or reader or bookstore owner or anyone else who has access to your
work from doing it?

#3 - Creating content (even exceptionally high quality content) has
become more or less a commodity. Highly talented writers are
willing to put your ideas into words for a pittance. Writing or
creating content by itself has grown less valuable.

#4 - Marketing is the key differentiator to your content being
"successful" or not. Too many content creators get hung up on the
potential value of what they put out, not realizing that value is
a PERCEPTION your marketplace puts on your work. The heightening
of that value perception comes from effective marketing.

#5 - WHAT is your purpose in publishing your book? In most cases,
there are MULTIPLE benefits from content publishing - and most of
those are BENEFITED by wider distribution of your work, even if by
cheats, crooks and pirates. It's smart strategy to send your
content out (in a way that'll make you enough money to cover your
costs and leave a tidy profit) - and then benefit FROM the wide
distribution. Some ideas:

* a sequel
* a series of promotions/offers within the work
* brand building
* spotlighting other services you offer
* gaining a following

I hope you see where I'm going here. If you let yourself get tied
down by worries about your content "getting stolen" and lock it up
under too many barriers and protective coats, you're doing yourself
and your audience a disfavor.

Set it free. Let the great ideas spread. And you'll reap a rich
reward far in excess of what you'll make from a mere few extra book
sales.

But also do it the smart way, with copyright protection, working with
professionals who are less likely to scam you, and guarding your
brand and authorship/ownership fiercely to ward away content thieves
to the best extent possible.

Just realize it won't ever be 100% proof!

Hope this helps

All success
Dr.Mani

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happydoodles

15 years ago

let him edit the book in your presence, then you can also learn from him

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Richard Van 15 years ago

Originally Posted by happydoodles

let him edit the book in your presence, then you can also learn from him

How do you do that exactly?

Invite yourself round for a few days, on the pretext that you don't trust the Editor?

Do let me know how you get on when you try this. It's better than the envelope.
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Colin Palfrey

15 years ago

If you have an NDA then you have absolutely nothing to fear, and that will hold up in any court. It's a contract, signed by both parties, for that specific reason.

The envelope copyrighting trick is certainly legal in the UK and Ireland, and no you can't steam it open lol. Though, you would be better to post it to your attorney than to yourself. Courts are able to tell if an envelope has been steamed open. For one thing it makes the paper go crinkly where the steam has hit it, though in any case there are tamper proof mailing bags now, that rip when you open them.

In any case, I'm always amazed at the number of people working without an NDA. It protects both parties and is a necessity. Sure, if you've worked with the person for years and know them, it may not be necessary for you, but otherwise you need an NDA. Simple as that!

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Editor stealing my entire book!

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