New Firefox 5.0 Makes It Easier to Block Cookies

daj

14 years ago

Quite the punch and blow to affiliate marketers.

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net1234

14 years ago

Yes that's good and also with better add-ons. But I don't know why they have launched FF5 very early?

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Steve Faber 14 years ago

Originally Posted by net1234

Yes that's good and also with better add-ons. But I don't know why they have launched FF5 very early?

If you're an affiliate marketer, I would not say it is good, unless you like to lose money.
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RobertBayes

14 years ago

Unfortunately, the new Firefox won't work with the current add-ons that I have, and some of them I rely very heavily on.

Robert Bayes

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Josh Anderson

14 years ago

This is one of the many reasons that a few years ago we developed our network so that it tracks by Cookie, IP, and Email address.

If you are a vendor using affiliate software that only tracks by cookies you are screwing your affiliates.

If you are an affiliate promoting any network or vendor that only tracks by cookies you are screwing your self.

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Steve Faber

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

This is one of the many reasons that a few years ago we developed our network so that it tracks by Cookie, IP, and Email address.

If you are a vendor using affiliate software that only tracks by cookies you are screwing your affiliates.

If you are an affiliate promoting any network or vendor that only tracks by cookies you are screwing your self.

Unfortunately, most networks use cookies as their primary, or in most cases, only tracking system. That will have to change for affiliate marketing to remain a viable business in the future. That is especially true considering all the pending, or soon to be pending legislation in the U.S. and Europe regarding visitor tracking.

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Josh Anderson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

Unfortunately, most networks use cookies as their primary, or in most cases, only tracking system. That will have to change for affiliate marketing to remain a viable business in the future. That is especially true considering all the pending, or soon to be pending legislation in the U.S. and Europe regarding visitor tracking.

That is unfortunate... for them.

Because that means that ANYONE using them should stop using them... yesterday.

Any network or affiliate tracking system relying on cookies only at this point in time is hanging a big sign that says "we don't care that we can't track."

Since that is one of the primary purposes of affiliate networks or management systems they might as well close their doors and quit the business.

I think that most major networks are already onto this...

But that is not true for most self hosted solutions. Most self hosted solutions are simply out of date and not doing what they need to do to address and solve the tracking issue.

I knew this was going to be an issue last decade... so we fixed it then.

To me its silly to think that any network or affiliate management solution would be operating today without an IP tracking fallback.

The issue is NOT just with Firefox... its with all browsers and it always has been an issue with cookies. Now its more prevalent. It does not stop with browsers though... internet security software, anti spyware etc. all pose a threat.

Heck spybot started wiping and blocking clickbank cookies by default when people immunized their sytems with it... that was a couple years back and I am sure clickbank added more than just cookie tracking to deal with those issues.
As for the legal side...

There may be a time when the first thing anyone has to do to even view a site is check a box and agree to terms of service that require them to enable and allow cookie tracking.

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Janet Sawyer

14 years ago

At last, the marketers are waking up to the future!

Cookies are going to be a definite "No, No" in the not too distant future.
I think last time I looked it was about November 2011 for Europe, but that may have now changed.

This is why we developed AffPayPro - as an affiliate for anyone using this program you are assured of being given the reward of the sale by simply just passing around or getting others to use your unique code.

To Quote Bob Dylan "Times they are a changing"

Josh, one real concern I have this week is that my ISP changed it's hosting / servers and my IP address changed with it, nothing I could do about that at all, totally at their liberty.

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

Unfortunately, most networks use cookies as their primary, or in most cases, only tracking system. That will have to change for affiliate marketing to remain a viable business in the future. That is especially true considering all the pending, or soon to be pending legislation in the U.S. and Europe regarding visitor tracking.

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

This is one of the many reasons that a few years ago we developed our network so that it tracks by Cookie, IP, and Email address.

If you are a vendor using affiliate software that only tracks by cookies you are screwing your affiliates.

If you are an affiliate promoting any network or vendor that only tracks by cookies you are screwing your self.

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DrewClement

14 years ago

Should we be focusing on this sentence right from the horse's mouth?

"It lets you tell a site that you want to opt-out of third-party tracking for behavioral advertising."

?

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Scott B

14 years ago

Agreed...it's not happy news for affiliates. So, the question that follows is: what is the best way for vendors and affiliates to adapt and adjust?

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GarrieWilson

14 years ago

It says 3rd party. Most affiliate systems use 1st party.

I dont like 3rd party tracking. Visit site x and then start seeing ads for site x or like site x.

IP tracking is as flawed as cookies. IPs change often.

Coupon codes can cause people to go looking for one when they don't have one. Possibly causing a loss of a sell.

People worry more about cookies than what the gov is doing. *shrugs*

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Janet Sawyer

14 years ago

?? what says 3rd party?

Our UK - Europe law says cookies. Full stop.

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

It says 3rd party. Most affiliate systems use 1st party.

I dont like 3rd party tracking. Visit site x and then start seeing ads for site x or like site x.

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GarrieWilson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

?? what says 3rd party?

Our UK - Europe law says cookies. Full stop.

The OP about FireFox.
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GarrieWilson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

?? what says 3rd party?

Our UK - Europe law says cookies. Full stop.

From what I read, the law says you have to ask permission for persistent cooks IF the site is hosted in the EU.

Mines not. No full stop for me. EU sites just have to ask.

Please correct me if I am not understanding it correctly.

-g

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Janet Sawyer

14 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

From what I read, the law says you have to ask permission for persistent cooks IF the site is hosted in the EU.

Mines not. No full stop for me. EU sites just have to ask.

Please correct me if I am not understanding it correctly.

-g

I'll look into that for you Garrie. Not now though as it's late here.

It's most likely going to change anyway, these things do when there is enough opposition behind them.
And saying as Michael Green is now an MP, who knows where these things will go from here.
Hopefully for the better, depends on how much sway a new era MP has, or for that matter, how many cookies he can eat.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

Our UK - Europe law says cookies. Full stop.

Your UK/Europe law says you can't track behaviour unless it's necessary.

Trouble is, that effectively means... nothing.

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

Any network or affiliate tracking system relying on cookies only at this point in time is hanging a big sign that says "we don't care that we can't track."

You know, on some level, I kind of agree with the notion that if you don't make the sale NOW... you don't get the commission. Which means no tracking of anything, ever.

Think of it like retail: if I'm running the register when you ring out, I get the commission. If you come back later when someone else is on duty, he gets it. If I go on break and the store owner rings you out, nobody gets the commission.

I think a lot of affiliate marketers suck and don't even try. Take tracking out of the picture, and a lot more of them will go do something else.

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kindsvater

14 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

It says 3rd party. Most affiliate systems use 1st party.

Would it be correct to say Amazon is 1st party and Commission Junction is 3rd party?

.

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GarrieWilson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Would it be correct to say Amazon is 1st party and Commission Junction is 3rd party?

.

Not sure about CJ but Amazon is 1st. CJ could be depending on when/how it's read.

ClickBank is 1st.

If site 1 sets a cookie and site 2 reads it (even if from the site 1 domain), it's 3rd party. IE blocks 3rd party by default if they don't have a "policy"

-g

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kindsvater

14 years ago

Here is what I am wondering about 3rd party and behavioral blocking.

With CJ I have a link on my website. Clicking on the link the visitor is taken to CJ and then the merchant. It is a CJ tracking cookie that is dropped.

Is that blocked?

Or is this to block one company to follow you across multiple websites to show targeted ads on different sites?

Eg: Acme Media has a banner ad on my site and drops its cookie. Person later visits your website which also uses Acme Media. Cookie from my site is read which affects banner ad shown on your website.

Is that blocked?

Maybe I'm describing the same technical procedure. I'm not sure. But there are different issues at play.

.

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fitz10

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Here is what I am wondering about 3rd party and behavioral blocking.

With CJ I have a link on my website. Clicking on the link the visitor is taken to CJ and then the merchant. It is a CJ tracking cookie that is dropped.

Is that blocked?

Or is this to block one company to follow you across multiple websites to show targeted ads on different sites?

Eg: Acme Media has a banner ad on my site and drops its cookie. Person later visits your website which also uses Acme Media. Cookie from my site is read which affects banner ad shown on your website.

Is that blocked?

Maybe I'm describing the same technical procedure. I'm not sure. But there are different issues at play.

.

I believe it goes something like this: A person visits Acme Media and two cookies are dropped which one is an affiliate cookie which is ok (at least in the US), the other is a tracking cookie. Later that person is on a completely different site than Acme Media but is shown a banner for Acme Media since the tracking cookie is present. That tracking cookie can now be blocked so that banner ads don't keep on advertising Acme Media. In otherwords, the tracking mechanism is blocked but the affiliate mechanism is not.

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GarrieWilson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Here is what I am wondering about 3rd party and behavioral blocking.

With CJ I have a link on my website. Clicking on the link the visitor is taken to CJ and then the merchant. It is a CJ tracking cookie that is dropped.

Is that blocked?

Or is this to block one company to follow you across multiple websites to show targeted ads on different sites?

Eg: Acme Media has a banner ad on my site and drops its cookie. Person later visits your website which also uses Acme Media. Cookie from my site is read which affects banner ad shown on your website.

Is that blocked?

Maybe I'm describing the same technical procedure. I'm not sure. But there are different issues at play.

.

It really depends on when CJ sets and reads the cookie.

Maybe this will help: Lies, Damned Lies...: What's a third-party cookie?

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DrewClement

14 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

It says 3rd party. Most affiliate systems use 1st party.

I dont like 3rd party tracking. Visit site x and then start seeing ads for site x or like site x.

IP tracking is as flawed as cookies. IPs change often.

Coupon codes can cause people to go looking for one when they don't have one. Possibly causing a loss of a sell.

People worry more about cookies than what the gov is doing. *shrugs*

Thank you for bringing some sense to this thread.

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DrewClement

14 years ago

I may be completely wrong here...but again I am looking at this exact sentence

"It lets you tell a site that you want to opt-out of third-party tracking for behavioral advertising"

Affiliate marketing, lead generation, etc etc cookies are not a form of behavioral advertising. All I see this affecting is the ads you see when browsing sites that relate to previous sites you have looked at or information you have searched for.

ReTargeter and specific adsense ads etc are the only type of things I see being affected by this....but take that for what it's worth.

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Steve Faber

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DrewClement

I may be completely wrong here...but again I am looking at this exact sentence

"It lets you tell a site that you want to opt-out of third-party tracking for behavioral advertising"

Affiliate marketing, lead generation, etc etc cookies are not a form of behavioral advertising. All I see this affecting is the ads you see when browsing sites that relate to previous sites you have looked at or information you have searched for.

ReTargeter and specific adsense ads etc are the only type of things I see being affected by this....but take that for what it's worth.

I think by third party they mean not either the visitor or the site they are visiting, as I read it (and maybe we need to get more clarification directly from the horse's mouth)they are going to be able to allow the user to block ad cookies. Whether or not they would be used for behavioral tracking would have no bearing on it from the browser's perspective.

In addition, I don't believe most pending legislation differentiates between advertiser cookies, it simply says that the user must be given the ability to opt in if they want tracking, (of any kind, not simply cookies, in some of the bills I've seen). Hopefully, many users will realize the benefits they receive from cookies, for sites such as Amazon, and allow them.

In any case, vendors who use affiliates are going to have to determine a way to track sales back to the proper affiliate if the concept is to continue. There are a lot of smart people out there. Someone will figure it out, after all, there is money at stake!

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Janet Sawyer

14 years ago

Long and boring I know, but you need to know.

Cookie law

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celente 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

Long and boring I know, but you need to know.

Cookie law

I never spent anytime reading up on this stuff, because, well....i just thought it was stuff!!

but just went and read up about this, and well worth the read.

Thx. :-)
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Marian Berghes

14 years ago

I've been reading a lot about this recently and here is what I think all this cookie business means:

1. Most of the laws that are implemented now or will soon be in the EU are about third party cookies. The best example that I can give is:

If you are using Google Analytics you have to ask permission, if you are using Piwik (self hosted) you don't have to ask permission.

And if you can prove that certain cookies are somewhat essential, so that your website functions properly, you also don't need to ask permission.

2. There are already people working on some type of server based tracking solution, where everything is centralized and no more cookies need to be stored to identify a visitor (at least as far as I could understand).

And there are also people working on a tracking solution based on your browser's..."uniqueness" if you want. meaning that it can track you based on your theme, extensions etc...

And also, as a side note: I think that 80% of the people backing these laws don't really understand how a cookie really works and what behavioral advertising really is.

I have seen so many paranoid people that were just so happy to see the new laws...its like the government announced a drop in taxes or something.

EDIT: And yes, as more people discover that do not track option in Firefox you are gonna see a whole lot of marketers saying "OMG, my server is showing 1000 visitors for today, but in Google Analytics it only shows 200...what do I do?".

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UMS

14 years ago

It's not a bad as it may seem as it is voluntary.

Here's the relevant paragraph taken from:

How do I stop websites from tracking me? | How to | Firefox Help

When you turn on the Do-not-track feature, Firefox tells every website you visit (as well as their advertisers and other content providers) that you don't want your browsing behavior tracked. Honoring this setting is voluntary -- individual websites are not required to respect it. Websites that do honor this setting should automatically stop tracking your behavior without any further action from you.

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thedog

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

One of the new "enhancements" to Firefox V5.0 is that it makes it easer for users to block affiliate cookies.

The following is from Information Week, and is listed as an advantage to upgrading to V5.0

"Easier to find Do Not Track button.

One of the major changes is the ability to enable the Do Not Track feature. This is a feature being used by several new versions of browsers today. It lets you tell a site that you want to opt-out of third-party tracking for behavioral advertising. In Firefox 4 this feature was buried deep in the options -- Options >> Advanced >> General and under Browsing you'd check the option: Tell web sites I do not want to be tracked. Now you just need to go into Firefox Options >> Privacy and under Tracking, check Tell web sites I do not want to be tracked."

Just what need!!

Feckin Firefox! I used to like this browser, now hardly any of the useful IM addons work on FF5.

And now this! Did some IMer pi$$ em off or something? Most IMers will included some sort of disclosure page, is this not good enough for them?

It still seems that the user needs to physically disable this, and, while it may be easier than before, I think anything more than 2 clicks and most people can't be arsed... unless there's some sort of pop up alert?

Firefox, what happend to you?

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UMS

14 years ago

Everyone seems to be getting hot under the collar with this one.

Please read the paragraph I quoted previously.

This option will NOT block cookies.

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sscot

14 years ago

FF's recommendation..... Sell Own Products.

Fortunately, I stopped affiliate marketing few years before.

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thedog 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sscot

FF's recommendation..... Sell Own Products. Fortunately, I stopped affiliate marketing few years before.

Do you not use affiliate marketeers promoting your products?
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- sscot 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by thedog
  
  Do you not use affiliate marketeers promoting your products?
  
  No, still I haven't reached to practicable level.
  
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Garish Wasil

14 years ago

No matter. Most of the people do not even know about that feature of firefox, others don't care to use it. So, Affliate marketing still rocks.

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DireStraits

14 years ago

I never thought I'd say it, but Internet Explorer 9 for Windows 7 is still way ahead of the game: it actually automatically blocks cookies sporadically, at its sole discretion, making itself wholly unreliable when used with select affiliate cookie-tracking systems (such as Clickbank's).

(Piece o' junk.

)

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DrewClement

14 years ago

herp derp

mountain out of a mole hill.

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Jack Duncan

14 years ago

Warriors,
I don't think this feature has any effect on cookies at all...but I could be wrong.

Here is an explanation given for how this feature could be used:

After user selects "do not track" options, the browser will send a header file to mark the websites that users refused to be recorded browsing behavior. Users in the use of firefox web browser won't perceive any change, until websites and advertisers start to respond to the header files.

I think this is a feature aimed specifically at re-targeting and behavioral advertising...and may not mean much at all until the re-targeting source (Like Google Adwords) actually acknowledges the header files and refrains from serving up these ads.

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