Is ClickBank worth it with the high refund rate?

Posted: 14 years ago 53 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

I considered Clickbank but everywhere I look I see complaints of serial refund rates as high as 50% or more.

Is it worth it to put your hard work and legitimate products on there, with that kind of high refund rate? Thoughts welcome!

#clickbank #high #rate #refund #worth

14 years ago

Well CB is a major part of my7-Figure business. You can minimize refunders with the way you deliver your product. For example if everything is video based and delivered from a members area it makes it harder to "Steal" and refund.

Our last launch had a refund rate of under 10% but it increased to 20% over time as serial refunders hit. You can also dripfeed content over time to overlap the 60 day refund period or promise more products and bonuses spread out over time as well to overlap that refund period.

All the best

Sean

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sean Donahoe

Great advice there Sean and something I need to keep in mind and put to use as I head towards my first $5mil online.

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Victoria Gates

Most products don't have 50% refund rates.

If they have refund rates that high... it's because their copy is written to get 50% refund rates... and their product is crap.

Here are a few ways to reduce refund rates:

1. Set up realistic expectations in your copy
2. Word your guarantee in way to reduce serial refunders (if it's really an issue. Probably won't be even with CB's lax refund policy).
3. Deliver more than you promised after the customer buys

In other words... if you don't do these things, it doesn't matter what payment processor you use. Your refund rates will be high.

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Victoria Gates

I can understand why the refund rate can be extremely high for the "Make Money Online" clickbank products. But I would still think that the refund rate should not be significant for some products. I've only sold like 5 products there as an affiliate and there have been no refunds.

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Alex Barboza

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14 years ago

50% refund rate happens with make money online products that offer "push button solutions". I market in the weight loss niche and have around 2-3% refund rate which is low in my opinion.
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- wwwBaron
  
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  14 years ago
  
  I have three different CB products in three different niches, far removed from the repugnant IM area. All are quality products and the sales pages do not overhype. Refund rates range in the 2%-5% zone. Many of these are due to duplicate order issues.
  
  Stay far away from the trouble niches, create a valuable product, and accurately represent it, and you will do fine.
  
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topfree

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14 years ago

The last $1000 I made on clickbank I had zero refunds So it really depends on how good of a product you are selling.
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  14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by topfree
  
  The last $1000 I made on clickbank I had zero refunds So it really depends on how good of a product you are selling.
  
  That's a good point.
  
  I've made like $900 and neither I had a single refund.
  
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14 years ago

There are a lot of poorly delivered CB products which get the most refunds. Just really over deliver the front end product and monetize the back. Quality products that match the sales copy don't get very many refunds.
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xxxJamesxxx

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14 years ago

High refund rates are normally in the "make money online" niche as everybody knows how to game it.

But I've got products who arn't as Clickbank savy and the refund rates are about 2%

James
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Britt Malka

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14 years ago

I've been selling ClickBank products as an affiliate for many years (since October 2003), and so far I've experienced three refunds:

2 came from Danes that first praised the product and then asked for a refund a month later (yeah, well, right... my guess is the product is not to blame, but the two cheapskates are).

The third came from somebody who had clicked and payed twice for the same product.

Try all the products you recommend. Make sure they are valuable. And you'll only run into a few refunds.
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14 years ago

Actually Clickbank gets on your case if your refund rate gets much above 10%.

Also, the worth here is in the affiliate sales. If you have a decent product, then you're almost guaranteed that affiliates will find you if you're selling through clickbank. There's absolutely no better ROI then having several affiliates selling your product for you.
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BlueCollar

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14 years ago

I've been marketing on ClickBank for years as both an affiliate and vendor. You are correct that some products have a high refund rate and it's very frustrating at times.

As a vendor I reproduced my product into mostly a video course and made it available only in the member area with no option to download the material. This really lowered refund rates as customers couldn't snatch the product and then ask for a refund.
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Victoria Gates

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14 years ago

I appreciate all of your comments on this. It helps me when considering all of my options for my digital products.
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- Alex Barboza
  
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  14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Victoria Gates
  
  I appreciate all of your comments on this. It helps me when considering all of my options for my digital products.
  
  If you are going to sell digital products (ebooks or software) Clickbank should be the best option since there are tons of people already looking for products at the CB marketplace to promote, and because many website owners in every niche know about CB and have an account with them so they could feel inclined to promote your product as an affiliate (if you contact them).
  
  Some people think that instant commision affiliate networks are the way to go but I wouldn't really trust them (mainly because they use Paypal as the only way to pay).
  
  Some other people say that CB shaves commisions and even use the word "steal", which is not the case with CB. Sometimes their tracking can fail (and this happens to every affiliate network out there), but as a vendor you still get the sales in those situations.
  
  Finally, I have tried so many ways to make money online and the only one that has been consistent for me has been Clickbank.
  
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- Michael D Forbes
  
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  14 years ago
  
  As an affiliate, I get almost no refunds.
  
  I have inside knowledge of several products that have a very consistently low (around 2%) refund rate. One of those products saw a significant spike in refunds when the vendor made some changes in the membership program and really goofed up on the execution. Pilot Error.
  
  I recently watched a friend promote a product that sold like hotcakes for a while. His conversions were excellent and I know he represented the product very accurately.
  
  Turns out the product, though a great idea in theory, caused a LOT of problems for hosting companies, with some hosts even suspending users accounts that used the product.
  
  Refunds over 75% in the end. Ouch.
  
  My take?
  
  Good product with good execution=low refunds
  Problematic product=huge refunds
  
  Pick the category you prefer and roll out your product with confidence that you will reap what you sow.
  
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14 years ago

I got 100% refund rates on some forex products. If you promote forex, then use adsense.... That's better.
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- Michael D Forbes
  
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  14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by smallbusinessguy
  
  I got 100% refund rates on some forex products.
  
  Oh... pain!
  
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  14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by smallbusinessguy
  
  I got 100% refund rates on some forex products. If you promote forex, then use adsense.... That's better.
  
  Forex is a lot of work because it's over promoted which means tons of competition. And like you said high refunds because most of the products, at least robots, are junk.
  
  Learn to sell physical products with original, quality content and over the long run you'll do better.
  
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  14 years ago
  
  Ouch!
  
  What launch was that?
  
  I ask because I have JV relationships with most of the product owners in that market, and several of the top Forex promoters are also good friends.
  
  I would guess you had a relatively small number of sales, and possibly a more sophisticated list.
  
  I'd say that on average the refunds are 40 to 60% on Clickbank.
  
  Since the majority of the guys have moved over to Plimus refunds are down because in general they just are lower on Plimus for a number of reasons, but conversions are also.
  
  And Plimus tracking sucks!
  
  In any event, as several people here have noted to you - once you get outside of any type of "make money" activity, be it MMO, IM, Forex etc - refund rates are much lower.
  
  I know one of the top weight loss guys and his refunds are around 8%.
  
  Originally Posted by smallbusinessguy
  
  I got 100% refund rates on some forex products. If you promote forex, then use adsense.... That's better.
  
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14 years ago

I just came across this thread and am glad I did. I am considering promoting a few promising looking CB products, but I have concerns of what I have heard about refund rates.

After reading the posts, I have to conclude that CB products are no different than any other. If you do your research and select quality products, your refund rates should be low.
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Bruce NewMedia

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14 years ago

Sometimes, affiliates draw conclusions too early...

For instance, I recently started promoting a financial product in CLKBK as an affiliate ...had two sales in the first week, and one refund :-(.....should I now infer that the product has a 50% refund rate?

....no, but I'll watch it to see what happens over a longer time frame.
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Vikram73

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14 years ago

You should buy the product before you promote it. I've found some pretty awful stuff on ClickBank (game copy software that turns out to not to be software but instructions! WTF??).

Then again, I've found some really well written and created products surprisingly in the dieting niches.

Once you're written an honest review of that product you'll be surprised at how much easier it is to pre-sell it and you'll know which products are worth holding onto and which ones should be refunded.

But ClickBank isn't as big of a cess pool as it's made out to be once you exit the MMO & Forex niches.

Haven't seen a refund in > 3months.
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goozleology

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14 years ago

Most definitely! And I say that because buyers know that they can get their money back very quickly if they don't like something. There's not a ton of hoops to jump through like with RAPbank and PayDotCom.com
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Jaymark

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14 years ago

I used to do Clickbank and occasionally got a sale or two. Never made more than a hundred dollars per month though. Fortunately I didn't get slammed with refunds but it did happen from time to time. I think Clickbank can be a viable option if you can build up a site which has a strong following. You can add one or relevant Clickbank links to the site and then Hey you never know! It doesn't really cost you anything.

However I certainly wouldn't depend on this as my primary source of income. Investigate other options (you can get a lot of great ideas right here on the Warriors Forum).

So good luck with it and stick with it. Youll get there...
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Kate C

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14 years ago

Clickbank is coming down hard on seril refunders and it is only a matter of time before people cannot abuse the system. In the meantime, they are monitoring refunders and will block people from buying if they refund a certain number of times. It is still worth it to use clickbank as they do most of the hard work for you and automate the selling as well as the refund process.
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- BDubC
  
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  14 years ago
  
  It really depends on the way you deliver, I first by the product so the "review/copy" is genuine, and people will know what they are going to expect.
  
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14 years ago

I decided to go with Clickbank. On my test run (Here on the Warrior Forum) I only had 1 refund requested in over 1000 sales. That is pretty good I think.

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Victoria Gates

I decided to go with Clickbank. On my test run (Here on the Warrior Forum) I only had 1 refund requested in over 1000 sales. That is pretty good I think.

You can't really say with any certainty what your refund rate is until the refund period is over. If you are selling through Clickbank and have only just started selling, you need to wait at least a couple of months until you can draw any firm conclusions. People have 60 days to request a refund from you.

You need to wait until people start getting their credit card statements, see the Clickbank charge, and decide they would rather have that money back because they are not using the product anymore... or they are a little short on money that week. Also the people who have a tough week and need to find some easy money to cover their bills.

Yes, all this happens.

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Gary Ning Lo

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14 years ago

I found that other niches have very low refund rates compared to IM/make money online niche.

The reason is obvious

Cheers,

~Gary
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  14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by garytsang
  
  I found that other niches have very low refund rates compared to IM/make money online niche.
  
  The reason is obvious
  
  Cheers,
  
  ~Gary
  
  Thanks for the heads up Gary. Just kinda said you have scammers that make IM niche appear as a bad niche. What can you do though?
  
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14 years ago

Good question Viktoria. And I think most of the replies here point to a few things to consider:
1. Lots of IM products get that (possibly due to serial refunders
2. Bad copy
3. Misrepresentation

I truly believe if you're just honest and produce a product meant to help others, not just make money, you'll do well. Great responses from everyone in here.;
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ChadOath

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14 years ago

As a vendor, Clickbank has been a godsend for me. It basically saved my life. It's amazing to put a product up for sale, then watch affiliates come in and promote it without any solicitation from you. It's even better when some of those affiliates are masters at what they do and drive boat loads of sales.
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BethW1

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14 years ago

If you have a good product your refund rate will not be high. Clickbank has been a great source of revenue for me and probably have a 5% return rate.
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Matt Poc

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14 years ago

Well, as long as you don't promise instant riches, you should get less than 15% refund rate on Clickbank.

I personally don't really promote products on Clickbank, I promote 100% instant commission products or infusion soft products (like Lee McIntyre, Jason Fladlien).

And I don't sell a product on Clickbank. I sell my product using PayPal and 100% commissions.
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14 years ago

If you have doubts better not enter. Sometimes if you don't feel good about something, there is a big chance that you will regret something in the future. Clickbank has a bad reputation for me however if you are still willing to take some risk then you go ahead. Just be careful on your decisions.
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14 years ago

Any product which has a refund rate upto 50% is a crap!
According to me, an ideal product shouldn't have a refund rate of more than 8-10%

- Steve

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14 years ago

I've made note of this several times on the forum, but it bears a repeat.

People should not be afraid of getting refunds, and they should not take them personally.

Your refund rate is often more closely associated with how hard you push your product as compared to the actual quality of the product itself.

John Carlton always tells people they should have around a 20% refund rate, and if it's not at least 20%, they are leaving profits on the table.

When I first heard him say that I was in shock because I was very proud of my super low refund rate (about 6% in the stock and options market), but I tested it anyway.

Sure enough he was right. Just under 20% is the sweet spot for me. If I'm under it, I'm not making as much as I should be. If I'm over it I'm selling too hard and start to hurt my business.

But for me, and I'd be willing to bet almost anyone else with the courage to push it and try, right around 20% is the sweet spot.

Originally Posted by Super Warrior

Any product which has a refund rate upto 50% is a crap!
According to me, an ideal product shouldn't have a refund rate of more than 8-10%

- Steve

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

John Carlton always tells people they should have around a 20% refund rate, and if it's not at least 20%, they are leaving profits on the table.

When I first heard him say that I was in shock because I was very proud of my super low refund rate (about 6% in the stock and options market), but I tested it anyway. ....

Not to hijak here Kelly, but are you sure he said 20%? I've been to his seminars and never heard him use a figure that high. ...though I, like you, mostly agree with his overall strategy on refunds.
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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Super Warrior

According to me, an ideal product shouldn't have a refund rate of more than 8-10%

According to me an ideal product should not have a refund rate higher than 0%. It's unlikely to happen but that is what you should be aiming for. Until you have a refund rate of 0% there is always room for improvement.

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

Haha! Yes, you are right! There is always a room for improvement but I meant that ideally products on Clickbank has a refund rate of around 10%.

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Originally Posted by Super Warrior

I meant that ideally products on Clickbank has a refund rate of around 10%.

This is very subjective.

For me, a refund rate of "around 10%" would be about as far from "ideal" as you can get: it would be absolutely horrifying and dismaying.

I aim never to have any refunds at all with any of the products in any of the 8 different niches in which I promote things. (I don't manage that, I admit - but that's my aim). If I ever had a refund-rate approaching 10%, I'd pull myself up sharply and ask what on earth I'm doing so wrong, or whether the product's changed dramatically since I started promoting it, or what? :confused:

If one of my customers buys a product on my recommendation and then asks for a refund, they're probably effectively out of my sales funnel, as a buyer, and in the long run that costs me a lot in terms of opportunity-cost, after all the work I've done generating my customers and building relationships with them, and it's very bad news for me.

The good news is that it's perfectly possible to sell ClickBank products by the thousand with hardly any refunds at all.
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14 years ago

Originally Posted by Victoria Gates

Clickbank's customer just learned how to get money back easily, it doesn't matter if you product is brilliant...
I prefer Plimus - refund rate is 10-20% max. Plimus gives you a chance to communicate with a refunder, offer another product instead... etc and refund will not be issued until you "push a button"

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14 years ago

I always try to get a review copy or buy the product before I promote it. This way you can be sure it is a quality product and your customers & visitors are a lot happier and more likely to trust you.

I do agree about the IM niche on CB having a higher refund rate though. I've never seen any refunds for any of the other niches that I promote. I usually see about 5-10% refunds for the IM products that I promote as an affiliate.

Cheers,
Suzanne
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John Romaine

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14 years ago

Im a vendor. I only promote and develop my own products.

I recall the first time I received a refund request. I was almost insulted in a way. Id invested 3 months and over $2,000 towards this particular product and received a refund request with the reason "Unsatisfied with the product/Product did not meet my expectations"

Ive learnt that you cant please everyone, regardless of how hard you try. Refunds are inevitable, even with decent products.

Best thing you can do (as a vendor anyway) is ask them why, get some feedback and make improvements.

For most of my products, my refund rate would be less than 1%.

I dont sell anything related to the MMO niches.
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14 years ago

Ive just launched a new product on CB, so I will have some realtime stats in the next week or so!!

the niche i'm in should have a low refund rate, and going off feedback from my list the product is very valuable to those taht need it!!
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Ben Gordon

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14 years ago

This is EXACTLY why I deliver physical products.

I minimize the rate of serial refunders LARGELY.

My product is actually very high quality though I don't want any serial refunders. So I created this guarantee, "If you don't like my product, simply send it back and I'll refund your money". Most serial refunders won't even waste the two dollars or whatever it is to send it back and just leave!

Selling physical products is great. Not only will it minimize the refund rate, you'll also build a better relationship with your customer and your customer will feel special.

Ben
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14 years ago

There are products with high refund rates and low refund rates in Clickbank. There are tons of great products in Clickbank with very low refund rates. So don't get discouraged!

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14 years ago

Originally Posted by woodymcgrath

There are products with high refund rates and low refund rates in Clickbank. There are tons of great products in Clickbank with very low refund rates. So don't get discouraged!

Yes, I agree.

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14 years ago

Make sure the product is worth promoting and it will work out fine. If its a good product you'll have low refunds.
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14 years ago

don't be disappointed when it come to clickbank it's one of the best out there
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14 years ago

My take on this is that if there were less low quality products the refund rates would be much lower.

There is so much bull being sold at CB it´s not even funny.
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