If you "hide" the "duration" of the video, I'll close it immediately!!

I completely agree, It frustrates me when you don't know how long is left.

I always have time to watch a good 2-3 min video, I think thats the optimal attention span for me

I love the ones that start with "give me 12 minutes of your time" 40 minutes later they lost a customer for life

Well, that's nice. Keep in mind though that you are one of more than 7 billion people, and your opinion (which I share ironically) doesn't speak for the whole market. So this would probably be better served as a blog post since there isn't much productive conversation that can come from this. Petty arguments and whining is much more likely.

super warrior


I know that feeling exactly.. but the strategy seems to work because more and more people use it.

here are 2 strategies that I use specifically for this type of thing since I watch everything.

1.) I use Internet Download Manager: the fastest download accelerator and download the video to my desktop temporarily ( super product by the way)

then use Change Playback Speed - Variable Speed - Time Scale Modification of Audio - Enounce, Incorporated - Enounce and speed it up 2 or 3 times depending what I can get away with without it sounding like alvin and the chipmonks


or


2.) go to the page where the webinar or sales video is playing and right click and "view page source"

then ctrl button and the find box opens

then put in an extension like flv... or mpeg4 you should be able to find the video file location.. then copy that location in your browser and you should be able to watch the video with controls and all


hope this helps

eddie

Joseph and Ken are right. Individual preferences do not play a part in a successful marketer's approach to selling. A successful marketer cares about conversions. If a split test shows hiding the duration converts better than not hiding it, which one is the logical choice?

I could make a similar post saying how much I hate commercials interrupting my favorite TV shows, but common sense tells me the networks will do what is in the best interest of their bottom line, regardless of how much it irritates "me".

You will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time. Once people realize this, they will have taken the first step to becoming successful in business.

That's a smart workaround Eddie. Still though when someone chooses to remove the controls and video duration it says something about the marketer. They are trying to take your attention by removing options. No one likes having control taken away. When a marketer relies on tricks like this they immediately lose me.

I don't understand how this technique is working. Do people really have so much time that they will voluntarily give it up to watch a video of unknown length? I know I don't.

While it's a nice workaround that you showed everyone - and it might be useful for many other things - it's too much work for something of questionable value.

As it stands I have to agree with OP. Perhaps this should have been a blog post, but I think it can have real value as a thread. Maybe someone who uses the technique can come and explain it.

If the video has real value then there's no need to use gimmicks. I can't wait 5 minutes for you to tease me with what I might learn. When I watch something I want it straight up. What are you going to cover, and how long will this take? Anything else just isn't worth the time investment.

Oh no, this guy says he's going to close the video!

Haha, ok Mojojuju - so you don't care if I close the video. Then what's the point of making that page? That's a lot of wasted effort.

How many marketers do you know that make a living by having people ignore their ads?

Its well established, in the IM/GRQ markets, that hiding the controls converts better. Sure, it pisses some people off but as others point out, the key is the overall conversion rate.

Now, what I definitely do NOT advise is stating a time in the video eg: "Give me 12 minutes of your time" and running way over that time. If you're going to announce the time, say the correct number.

Just because you won't watch a video doesn't mean that everyone won't. What if you are in the 10%? What if the remaining 90% actually watch the video and watch it fully because there is no duration.

DO NOT post something that's your opinion.

Post something that you tested. Guess work and intuition is good BUT SHOULD NEVER COME AT THE COST OF LACK OF TESTING.

I am tired of suggestions, opinions and free advice. I want data. Numbers. Results. Conclusions.

Does anyone agree with me?

More importantly (and maybe already discussed)...is there any data on a split-test for controls vs. no controls on a video? I know some of the real big-time gurus remove controls on the video...I have to assume they've tested it out and found the no control option to convert better.

d3.

I can feel your pain but the facts are people who use these must test their conversion rates and visitor value so it's up to them to split test and use the best for their business.

It's also up to the individual to decide if they will watch a video with no controls, personally I skip every one, they could have next weeks winning lottery numbers at the end of the video but I won't hang around to watch.

However, there must be plenty of folks who do watch them ? Each to their own as it's easy to assume things but we all think differently.

The midnight deadline date script works in sales pages despite many people knowing it's a sales tactic but the mind does play tricks from time to time and creates urgency or a desire to watch the full video just in case .......

From a customer point of view i was willing today to join a newly launched Kindle mastermind group by a fellow warrior and i came across such a video as the only thing in the selling page.About 10 minutes later the video was still playing toward no end so since i value my time too much to lose it watching boring already know bla-bla stuff about Kindle i've decided to close the damn page and thing(a video does have controls and time!)altogheter.

Customer lost forever.

The big names test it, no doubt about it. But I would argue, that many just follow the lead. And in the process, they are ignoring one of the most important factor that makes the video being watched - who posted it. The brand and name recognition of say Frank Kern has definitely a lot to do with how his content converts. Not to mention, that the niche you're trying to reach may differ from his. The only way to determine if it works for your product is to put it to test. Then again, in order to really test it, you need sufficient data, which usually translates in money you need to spend. Which leaves a lot of smaller marketers not do any testing at all. And the result is. that smaller products created by unknown marketers are being pushed the same way the well recognized marketers push their huge products. Hence the influx of the same style sales letters, videos, templates, language etc.

Lostarts,

I'm very impressed with your well-reasoned response. Obviously, you're a smart marketer -- you "get it."

Hiding the controls IMMEDIATELY throws up a "red flag" that tells your visitor to BEWARE.

And it's unnecessary. If a video is long, but is interesting or provides real value, I'll watch -- no matter what the length is. It's NOT about length -- it's about value.

Here's my rule...

It's never a good idea to trick your prospects. "Tricking people" isn't a business model.

To the contrary, you should do EVERYTHING you can to inspire trust and confidence. In a skeptical world, trust and credibility are the new currency.

John

Cloaking anything that you are doing only serves to make you seem shady--Transparency in everything that you do and how you do it builds trust, confidence, and faith in your clientele-

Remember the saying that honesty is the best policy?

I end up telling people things that they don't want to hear, because I'd rather not BS them, and have to deal with the fallout later--it is easier to just be upfront, and lay the hard facts out as they come in

I particularly do the same but if the split tests are showing better conversions that way, more power to the marketers. We have no idea how large amounts of people will act if we do not test it ourselves.

Hiding the time of the video basically says 'I don't value your time so please ... bear with me as I try and sell you something.' That's the metamessage and one I won't stick around for UNLESS ... the info is so good I can't wait for the next second of it to start.

Do you know how many IM videos are like that? Not many.

One of my mentors thought me this lesson it has made me a lot of money, I'm sure most of you will not like it, but it's true. He told me that what I think it not relavent, what they thing is the only thing that matters. So if I want or don't want the time on the video is not relavent, it only matter what they ... You get the idea. That hard thing is that 99% ask me, 1% ask they. I had to learn to join the 1% ask they, not easy.

Food for thought while everyone is indulging themselves in yet another game of "I Smell Marketing"...

Stansberry & Associates "End of America" video clocked in at 77 minutes.

Masterfully written by Mike Palmer. Beautifully scribed (high-speed animated whiteboard illustration seems to have beaten the ugly powerpoint version).

No video controls. Exit pop to long-copy version of the pitch.

Well over 300,000 new subscribers @ $50/year for their newsletter.

Just sayin'...

Brian

I got hammered when I replied to a similar thread earlier this year when I stated that it annoyed me not being able to stop or start a video - someone who had positive results from not allowing people to do so said too bad that his testing proved he made more money by removing that control factor so I was a bit hesitant to reply to this one.

Agora publications is a multi-billion dollar publishing company that generally deals with investment newsletters etc.... so I am sure they have done much testing on the subject. I receive links to one or more of their videos on a daily basis.

In ALL the videos that I can recall, Agora allows you to stop or start the video, however, relating to the OP subject, they "Do Not" show the timeline of the video and from what I can recall, they never did.

So apparently the testing of this multi-billion dollar company has shown more results by not placing the option but I tend to wonder if they continue to run ongoing split-tests to see if it would make a difference.

Personally, it annoys me not being able to see it as they may very well have subject matter that I would like to see/hear about but for whatever reason vistor, phone calls, leave for an appointment, dinner, etc. I have to close it out, I now have to start it up from the beginning and unless the portion I watched to that point really drew my interest, I may not take the time to do so or may have already deleted the email the next time I turn the computer back on.

Personally I would do what works. Someones bound to be pissed no matter what you do.

I love the word choice in this thread. "Hiding", "trickery", "take away
control", "lack of respect" ... really?

Who said that a marketer was obligated to give control to the
prospect. I always thought that you wanted to take away
control from the prospect so you lead him along the path
of your choosing. This is the whole idea behind not placing
links in long form sales letters that could take the attention
away from reading the whole letter.

If I could 'force' the prospect to read my entire sales letter,
without skipping, skimming or scrolling to see the price then
I would. But you cannot do this with print but you can do
it in a video.

There is no deception there. This is just every marketer's
dream come true--lead the prospect along an unbroken path
to the order button.

-Ray Edwards

The correct answer is to split test to see which boosts conversions best. But having said that, and being a video pro myself, I will say I personally will never watch a video without controls, and instead I always just use a video capture plugin (I use internetdownloadmanager.com, have for years) that lets me download the flv/mp4 to my hard drive, so I can watch it in my media player with scrub controls at my convenience.

And as a side note, I just capture and save those to a c:\salesvideos\ subdirectory on my hard drive and never watch them at once; I just skim through the 10-20 ones I've collected each week during a 10-20 minute timeframe saturday mornings. Completely defeats the marketers' purpose; I would personally never ever sit there and watch any video for more than a couple minutes, ever. (even the best ones). I scrub and click around video content quickly.

But, the correct answer is, we are not our customers and some people do just sit there and watch lots of video from start to finish (getalife, lol), so the marketing response is, TEST and show data and make decisions on what produces the most sales.

Of course if you annoy your customers and they don't like those type of videos and tell you that, then I'd listen carefully, since your reputation is most important of all.

(Brian, thanks - that's good to know re timers, haven't seen that (gota link?), sounds like smart approach since it keeps viewers engaged/informed)

While we're at it, why don't we demand that marketers mention price at the start of the video (or sales letter).

That wouldn't 'waste our time'... but I sure bet it wouldn't sell much either.

I don't this kind of video aswell, i close the page or i let it continue in the background if i want to see the end.

I don't like it when I have no idea how long a video is but they do convert better. I don't know that from personal experience but I am on someone's list and they actually said it in one of their emails. They said something to the effect of "check out the video on my site, you won't be able to pause it or fast forward and I know a lot of people hate these videos but they convert better." That's not verbatim but it was something like that.

I'm not sure I would have shared all of that with my list but apparently these videos work.

If I am only somewhat interested in the product because of an email that was sent I usually won't watch the video. If I am interested but pressed for time I'll download it with the DownloadHelper Fire Fox tool and then I can see how long it is, pause, fast forward, rewind or watch it later.

Depending on the creator and the content, I may watch it when there's no time duration displayed. However, I'd appreciate if it's displayed when it's a video over 5 minutes.

This post will take you 6 seconds to read. I mention this because I care about the people who read my posts.

I am a little confused on the direction of this discussion.

I mean.. it's the sellers job to do what he can to maximize his rate of return

correct???

so the seller has the right to put out a sales video that has no controls and is 3 hours long if he wants.

and it is the customers right to ignore the video

or

if the customer is a solution based individual looks for a workaround that satisfies his curiosity.

you cannot think about trying to make everyone happy as you will always piss off someone.



me personally I would use what works!!!

does this make sense??

but to get involved in a discussion on why this is bad.. etc

seems a little odd to me

eddie

This method works extremely well.

You can't expect the customer to fork over $497 by fast forwarding to the money shot.

This is how the seminar people do it. Talk about features and Benefits until you realize that it will be worth pulling out the credit card.

People selling over inflated sales letters and videos don't care if an intelligent person reads/watches, because only idiots will believe they can make a million in a month and live in a condo in Maui with a private jet, and etc.

Marketers with a flop product/service don't market to intelligent people, they market to suckers.



I hope you're joking.

It was a great discussion on the type of the video that should be posted on a sales page.

What I learnt:
- Do Split test and do what convert better.
- Don't care of the minority of the people who don't like your video due to this "trick".
- You can't sell people a high priced product without letting them know all the benefits
and features, which is not possible in a "fast forward" enabled videos. So, snatch the controls from them.
- If someone don't like your video and doesn't know how long it's going to take,
you can lose him for life, so try to put a lot of value in your videos to keep your viewer
interested till the end. Don't let him feel like he wasted his time.

Well, this kind of discussion has no end, so I've reported the thread to mods to lock it.

Thanks everyone!