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The most SHOCKING discovery I ever made in email marketing!!

by Mo Faisal
52 replies
You've worked hard to build a list.

And you'd like to make more money from it. Am I right so far?
Great! Just wanted to make certain that I'm not losing my touch.

See, I do things differently when it comes to email marketing and what I'm gonna say now may ruffle a few feathers.

One of the most shocking discoveries that I ever made in my work with email marketing is this:

If you don't send promotional mailings regularly, your response rates will go down dramatically.

Trust me. I've tested it.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about sending out promotional mailings five times a day.

That's a shortcut to failure there.

But, at the same time, sending out promotional mailings at a very infrequent, sporadic pace is a shortcut to failure as well.

Either way, you ain't gettin' paid.

They key is balance.

Test for yourself. Your list may be different.

Regardless of the frequency you decide upon,it absolutely needs to be REGULAR.


What are you thoughts on this matter?
#discovery #email #list #marketing #shocking
  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    How about sending content on a continued basis that helps open their minds to the promotional message you'll be sending in the future? All promotional messages might cause 'list blindness.' That's definitely something I want to avoid.
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Originally Posted by Dax View Post

    Trust me. I've tested it.
    Could you attach all your figures please so we could see the difference between the two? You know, open rate, click throughs etc...
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    • Profile picture of the author Mo Faisal
      Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

      How about sending content on a continued basis that helps open their minds to the promotional message you'll be sending in the future?
      How about sending valuable content in an email and just sticking a link to a product you are selling in the P.S of the email. You don't hardsell and you don't even need to be blatant about it.

      You think that would work?

      See, when it comes to email marketing, there's no right or wrong method.
      But one thing is certain: The more emails you send, the more money you make.

      It's all about setting 'Expectations'.

      If you're gonna just send content emails, your list is going to expect the same. So, when you send a promotional email sometime, it's going to make your subscribers a bit angry because that's not what they expect of you.

      If you're gonna send a promotional email at the end of every week and you let your subscribers know that, your list will eventually expect the same.

      Get the point?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
        The comments below are the only information in this entire thread you need... These guys are telling you the truth 100%. It's all about expectations people...


        Originally Posted by Dax View Post

        You've worked hard to build a list.

        And you'd like to make more money from it. Am I right so far?
        Great! Just wanted to make certain that I'm not losing my touch.

        See, I do things differently when it comes to email marketing and what I'm gonna say now may ruffle a few feathers.

        One of the most shocking discoveries that I ever made in my work with email marketing is this:

        If you don't send promotional mailings regularly, your response rates will go down dramatically.

        Trust me. I've tested it.

        Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about sending out promotional mailings five times a day.

        That's a shortcut to failure there.

        But, at the same time, sending out promotional mailings at a very infrequent, sporadic pace is a shortcut to failure as well.

        Either way, you ain't gettin' paid.

        They key is balance.

        Test for yourself. Your list may be different.

        Regardless of the frequency you decide upon,it absolutely needs to be REGULAR.


        What are you thoughts on this matter?


        To Your Continued Success,
        Dax Ferrao...
        Originally Posted by Dax View Post

        How about sending valuable content in an email and just sticking a link to a product you are selling in the P.S of the email. You don't hardsell and you don't even need to be blatant about it.

        You think that would work?

        See, when it comes to email marketing, there's no right or wrong method.
        But one thing is certain: The more emails you send, the more money you make.

        It's all about setting 'Expectations'.

        If you're gonna just send content emails, your list is going to expect the same. So, when you send a promotional email sometime, it's going to make your subscribers a bit angry because that's not what they expect of you.

        If you're gonna send a promotional email at the end of every week and you let your subscribers know that, your list will eventually expect the same.

        Get the point?


        To Your Continued Success,
        Dax Ferrao...
        Originally Posted by petelta View Post

        You train your list to be the way they are. Keep sending them free shit and they will expect free shit... only answer complaints, and you'll only receive complaints...

        Great post Dax. I remember when I first started list building. I was scared to promote. I even made it a rule to only promote twice per month. Well, when I threw that out the window and starting doing at least 1-2 promos a week, my income flew through the roof and my list become much more into what I was saying.

        Your list wants your help and it's okay to suggest helpful tools they can buy to do that. As long as it helps get them to point B, they will be thankful.

        Travis
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      • Profile picture of the author dukegman
        I can't totally agree with you here. If you send out promotional mails about a different product daily, then all you are gonna do is cause "list blindness". I agree with @WriteAway here. This is NOT a good strategy at all. Sending out promotional mails about a variety of products will help, but it still won't be a good strategy to send out 1 promotional mail / day.

        Originally Posted by Dax View Post

        But one thing is certain: The more emails you send, the more money you make.
        If you consider long term, then this is totally WRONG! Now this is way too arguable, but I'm gonna leave it by saying it all depends.
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      If this is "shocking"
      someone really needs to get out more.




      Originally Posted by butters View Post

      Could you attach all your figures please so we could see the difference between the two? You know, open rate, click throughs etc...
      I notice the OP chose to ignore this request.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mo Faisal
        Originally Posted by butters View Post

        Could you attach all your figures please so we could see the difference between the two? You know, open rate, click throughs etc...
        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        I notice the OP chose to ignore this request.
        Really, you worried about open rates and click throughs when you should be worried about sales?

        Ok, I'm not trying to put down the usefulness of open rates and click throughs. But that's not what puts food on the table. Sales does.

        I think it's sales and sales alone that is the best indicator of the responsiveness of your list.

        Suppose, one of your list gets 20% open rates, 10% clickthroughs, and 5 sales of a $37 product.

        Another list of yours gets 15% open rates, 7% clickthroughs, and 10 sales of a $37 product.

        Which one would you prefer? I would take the second one in a heartbeat.


        And, as far as my figures and testing results are concerned, it would be meaningless to you because every list is built and nurtured differently.

        In fact you should never take anyone's test results at face value, not even mine. You gotta test things yourself and see what works best for you.
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Dax View Post


          In fact you should never take anyone's test results at face value, not even mine.
          So what was the point of this thread then?
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          • Profile picture of the author Mo Faisal
            Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

            So what was the point of this thread then?
            The point of the thread is that you should test sending out promotional emails at regular and frequent intervals. :rolleyes:
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            • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Dax View Post

              The point of the thread is that you should test sending out promotional emails at regular and frequent intervals. :rolleyes:


              To Your Continued Success,
              Dax Ferrao...
              We already knew that.
              Someone posts something similar almost everyday.
              What's "shocking" about it?
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              • Profile picture of the author Mo Faisal
                Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

                We already knew that.
                Someone posts something similar almost everyday.
                What's "shocking" about it?
                Well, it certainly was a shock for me. So, I wanted other people in this forum to know and test it out themselves.

                If you knew that which you seem to do, you should have chosen to ignore this thread.

                I just wanted to hear my fellow marketer's take on it.
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                • Profile picture of the author Les Blythe
                  One thing I wanted to add is that you may, in fact, build lists for different purposes. For example a solo ad provider has a different objective for his list(s) than a relationship building IMer.
                  Don't underestimate the ability of subscribers to be fickle and even downright stupid. Ever had a complaint for sending something you know to be of value - I have?
                  There are definitely no hard and fast rules but the more you market via email the more you start to get a "feel" for what your lists are doing or how they are performing.
                  Unfortunately, the days of huge % open & click rates are long gone - which makes it more important than ever to keep your lists fresh and add new subscribers.
                  Clean your lists down every 3 months - remove subscribers who haven't opened an email for more than 3 month and see your %'s go up. Don't lull yourself into a false sense of security with big lists of un-responsive subscribers.
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              • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
                Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

                We already knew that.
                Someone posts something similar almost everyday.
                What's "shocking" about it?
                This thread has actually been pretty educational for new people to email marketing.

                You seem like such a ray of sunshine from your posts in this thread, why not provide something of value instead of trying to pick on/pick a fight with the OP?

                /1st thought

                Here's what works for me especially in non-IM

                Every email that I send that isn't promoting my own products but rather passively promoting related affiliate offers is formatted like this:

                --- Start email ---
                Hey [Firstname],

                {On topic content for about 4 sentences}

                ====
                Call to action headline for link below this
                < link to product related to topic of email>
                ====

                {continued on topic content for another 4 sentences}

                Don't forget to check out (or similar sentence) < link to product related to topic of email > it will really help you out with < topic of email >.

                Sign Off,
                My name/Pen name

                --- end email ---

                As you can see I'm offering a good amount of value as I make sure the content is high quality and accurate. It is a soft sell with a medium sell at the end of the email and it isn't just straight out promotional like many new email marketers start out doing. At the same time, I am training them to "click" and expect to have products recommended to them.

                I mail everyday, without exception. My open rates are high, my click through rates are higher than industry average and my list engagement (replies, survey responses, call to complete certain tasks) is also consistently high. Unsubscription rates are low, normally in the range of 2-5 unsubscribes per 10,000 emails sent.

                Don't be afraid to email your subscribers, they WANT to hear from you as long as you keep giving them information that is useful to them and you're not bombarding them with nonsense.

                Of course there are other options for different niches such as digital deal of the day type sites which send out emails that are solely promotional regarding their current deal of the day (with the exception of appsumo which also sends out informational emails). These sites do just fine emailing every single day and generally have decent open rates, but with one BIG difference... People are opening because they WANT to see the offer so each email they send tends to be more profitable than the average list owner would experience.

                Hope that helps.
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                • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
                  Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

                  This thread has actually been pretty educational for new people to email marketing.

                  You seem like such a ray of sunshine from your posts in this thread, why not provide something of value instead of trying to pick on/pick a fight with the OP?

                  /1st thought

                  Here's what works for me especially in non-IM

                  Every email that I send that isn't promoting my own products but rather passively promoting related affiliate offers is formatted like this:

                  --- Start email ---
                  Hey [Firstname],

                  {On topic content for about 4 sentences}

                  ====
                  Call to action headline for link below this
                  < link to product related to topic of email>
                  ====

                  {continued on topic content for another 4 sentences}

                  Don't forget to check out (or similar sentence) < link to product related to topic of email > it will really help you out with < topic of email >.

                  Sign Off,
                  My name/Pen name

                  --- end email ---

                  As you can see I'm offering a good amount of value as I make sure the content is high quality and accurate. It is a soft sell with a medium sell at the end of the email and it isn't just straight out promotional like many new email marketers start out doing. At the same time, I am training them to "click" and expect to have products recommended to them.

                  I mail everyday, without exception. My open rates are high, my click through rates are higher than industry average and my list engagement (replies, survey responses, call to complete certain tasks) is also consistently high. Unsubscription rates are low, normally in the range of 2-5 unsubscribes per 10,000 emails sent.

                  Don't be afraid to email your subscribers, they WANT to hear from you as long as you keep giving them information that is useful to them and you're not bombarding them with nonsense.

                  Of course there are other options for different niches such as digital deal of the day type sites which send out emails that are solely promotional regarding their current deal of the day (with the exception of appsumo which also sends out informational emails). These sites do just fine emailing every single day and generally have decent open rates, but with one BIG difference... People are opening because they WANT to see the offer so each email they send tends to be more profitable than the average list owner would experience.

                  Hope that helps.
                  Great post James. Do you mail offers every day or just mix them in once or twice a week? In one of my niches (beauty/anti-aging) it's difficult even finding something to promote once a week let alone every day or every other day. Just curious...

                  Bill
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                  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
                    Originally Posted by Bill_Z View Post

                    Great post James. Do you mail offers every day or just mix them in once or twice a week? In one of my niches (beauty/anti-aging) it's difficult even finding something to promote once a week let alone every day or every other day. Just curious...

                    Bill
                    I mail ads every day, without fail. I'll explain below:

                    Well the way I format it my readers end up seeing it as me mailing them information everyday with an "ad" in the middle, much like a magazine. A few good experiences with purchases from those ads and they begin to trust my ads and my conversion rates continually increase. It takes a bit of sweat equity to find the right offers, but it is worth it in the long run as my Lifetime Subscriber Value over 12 months is substantially higher and more consistent than most other mailers I talk to.

                    I don't promote launches in those niches as it isn't like IM where there is a new launch twice a day and possibly only one or two good products per week that are worthwhile promoting.

                    What I'm doing is evergreen and not new product based. There are plenty of established brands, ebooks, courses in beauty/anti-aging and don't be afraid to promote the same thing more than once a week. As long as you're filling the funnel with new subscribers you will always have new sales.

                    Mixing it up with your own products once a month or doing a proper launch sequence for a product you get created works out really well to build authority in the eyes of your subscribers and helps pad your bottomline

                    Thought for you: beauty/anti-aging niche is great for a deal of the day type list, something maybe you want to think about doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author spa3212
    What I found in doing email marketing if you send free offers to your list you will get more response for paid items and you end up bunch of money in hand ☺ my personal view
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  • Profile picture of the author himanuzo
    Sending offers 1-3 times weekly is enough. Do not overdo it. Don't forget to send useful tips to your audience also.
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  • Profile picture of the author adsassist
    It takes around 5 emails to build a relationship/trust with your customer. The 6 and 7 day is when you promote a product.

    Its about the value in the emails leading up to the point for the promotional emails. Having educational emails show higher results for me.

    Dax is right on having a cycle in your weekly updates. Being consistent from educational to promotional works pretty well for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    Balance is the key

    You can also softsell in your emails on promotions but it just means you would generally have
    to promote more soft sells in order to make what you would on 1 hard sell

    I always include some type of little story in my promotions and that has always worked really well

    If you personalize your emails you will get a far better response rather than just

    "hey check this out {firstname} it's the best thing since slice bread" etc

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by paul nicholls View Post

      Balance is the key

      You can also softsell in your emails on promotions but it just means you would generally have
      to promote more soft sells in order to make what you would on 1 hard sell

      I always include some type of little story in my promotions and that has always worked really well

      If you personalize your emails you will get a far better response rather than just

      "hey check this out {firstname} it's the best thing since slice bread" etc

      Paul
      This makes a lot of sense. It's all about OPENING THEIR MINDS to a concept then selling. You're always selling... it's just a question of how hard.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaryPabelate
    Banned
    There are certain niches which is for only one time email so you can't send them periodically.

    So it depends on what you promote.

    I agree building relationship would help in good conversion but it depends.
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    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      There is no right or wrong way.. each list is different and each subscriber has different expectations from the different lists they are on.

      If I buy a WSO I expect to get hammered with offers for the first few days..

      (I am always pleasantly surprised when i get good content and a proper relationship building AR sequence.)

      If i signup for a report on how to build a boat I don't expect to get offers everyday
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  • Profile picture of the author troy23
    I don't think it matters.
    Unless you are a big time marketer who is interesting people will unsubscribe.
    Email marketing is a hit and miss way of making a living online
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  • Profile picture of the author petelta
    You train your list to be the way they are. Keep sending them free shit and they will expect free shit... only answer complaints, and you'll only receive complaints...

    Great post Dax. I remember when I first started list building. I was scared to promote. I even made it a rule to only promote twice per month. Well, when I threw that out the window and starting doing at least 1-2 promos a week, my income flew through the roof and my list become much more into what I was saying.

    Your list wants your help and it's okay to suggest helpful tools they can buy to do that. As long as it helps get them to point B, they will be thankful.

    Travis
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  • Profile picture of the author onlinebizgiant
    Instead of pure promotional emails, provide useful content or tips first then at the bottom promote your offer, This strategy really works for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author raffman999
    It's healthy balance between, content, motivation and products.

    The key thing is having a coherent sequence so you're not sending content on Facebook, followed by an Adsense guide, followed by content on CPA...you get the picture.

    The best email marketers pre-sell with few days’ worth of valuable, authoritative content before presenting a product.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      It's a different medium, but you can learn a lot of lessons from studying the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment). Between their five hours per week on cable/satellite TV, their hour on Ion's broadcast network, their website, YouTube channel, and on and on, they put out tons of free content every week. You can suck up all the testosterone-and-spandex soap opera you you can handle without paying them a dime.

      But make no mistake, every bit of that free content is there for one reason.

      It gives them something on which to hang their promos for their merchandise and their next PPV event.

      Does it work?

      Vince McMahon took his father's regional promotion, staged in rented ballrooms and auditoriums, and turned it into a billion dollar venture. Laugh if you want, but their flagship event, Wrestlemania, typically sells out a major stadium in a few hours every year.

      You have to give people what they want. In this case, like much email marketing, they want free content and the chance to buy even more content and products. Only give them either half, and you're cheating both them and yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author wesd22
    OP, you are a genius!

    Wow, all these years I was looking for the gurus of all gurus and now with this post I have finally found you!

    Yes yes yes! Send promotional emails regularly! It's so easy yet so profound.

    I await your next game-changing post with much anticipation. Hopefully it will be something about adding value or developing a relationship that will add value. Those are the keys to internet marketing according to a blog I'm reading by a guy who has made millions from the internetwebz.

    Please to be looking forward to your next post my very smart friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author retsced
    Subscribers are not human like the rest of us. We have to treat them differently - and so it becomes increasingly difficult to build relationships with them. I decided (all by myself) that I'm going to go in the opposite direction and communicate with my subscribers as if they were real live human beings.

    By God i think i've cracked it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by Dax View Post


    If you don't send promotional mailings regularly, your response rates will go down dramatically.
    I fully agree with this. Subscribers become trained to whatever
    you offer--why do you think they stick around. And if you send
    out all valuable information and not ask for a sale you will get
    a negative backlash when you do ask for a sale.

    I've been part of list where every email is selling something and
    I've stayed with them for years. It's a MYTH that you can
    sell too much.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author rossm
    The relationship building process is definitely the key. Takes time but pays of in the long term.

    I joined a list from a guy once and he sent me 2 emails a day, every day since day 1, promoting pretty much exactly the same thing in re-written emails.

    At first it was annoying, but now I just find it amusing the desperation this guy goes to! I have stayed on his list purely to remind me each day on how not to do things!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Email marketing in a nutshell.

    Treat subscribers like human beings.
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  • Profile picture of the author jlcs
    I think the frequency of sending email is a very subjective thing. It is depends on what niche you are in too.
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  • Profile picture of the author kayfrank
    I agree with you Dax. Its all about building a relationship and trust with your list. Providing you are promoting products that your subscribers actually need and want then it does work. But you have to work on continually building that relationship and trust.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shubh Ashish
    The emails need to be pure content for at least 2 emails and then 1 email pitching.That ratio is very effective to increase the quality of the list.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    I never send out just a promotional email, I always give some sort of valuable content before I make an offer.

    You do want to mail regularly, but always with great content before making an offer, I routinely get 50-80% open rates and convert offers at over 20% all the time and my unsubscribes are virtually non- existant, just becasue I always give first, this business is all about helping other first.

    The more people you help, and the more often the better off you'll be
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    I've noticed that most people are giving what they think is best or what they read they think is best without talking about their market or niche. Mark touched on it above...all of this depends completely on your market and niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author ProServices
    Your right about having the right balance. I've been subscribed to a well known Marketer whom I admired for some time but lately he keeps pitching every day. Being bombarded with products I don't even like is upsetting. I'm simply deleting those emails and he's now lost a valuable subscriber.

    The problem is that they don't respect the fact that we are experienced marketers too and know all the tricks of the trade. I wouldn't treat my list that way as I have more respect for my subscribers and want to deliver a huge amount of content and less pitching.
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  • Profile picture of the author surferchris
    If your emails are worthwhile and provide value other than just plain promotions, then frequency wouldn't matter. People would look forward to receiving emails from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author nthomas00
    I totally agree. If you don't send emails regularly, your subscribers will forget who you are or why they subscribed to your e-mail list. Then most likely they will unsubscribe.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tiiberiuss
    The best thing you can do to keep your trust and open rates high is to ALWAYS fullfill your promises.

    Do not tell them that you will send "cool free email course" and except you send promo after promo.
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  • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
    I wouldn't be too hard on the OP...Sometimes the most insightful and enjoyable conversations start with something seemingly (to you at least) very basic and often-heard such as: "Nice weather we're having..."

    As for the topic at hand, any good relationship needs to be nutured, but that can be done in many subtle ways. Consider how you do that in your relationships with family and loved ones and that can help inspire. It's not always a conversation (about a sale)...sometimes it's a look or a touch which (yes I'm going to say it!) means so much.

    Regards,
    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author CoachManny
    Good OP!

    In the past in a different niche I would do a monthly newsletter to around 5K people a month. I could see the sales drop a bit when I didn't send out the newsletter and slacked off for months at a time. When a newsletter went out the phones were busier and website traffic was way off.

    There was a correlation.

    Manny
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Very interesting, OP. I still need to build up e-mail lists!
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    • Profile picture of the author CoachManny
      Originally Posted by Michael Ten View Post

      Very interesting, OP. I still need to build up e-mail lists!
      Here is my weakest part in the niche that I'm currently in. Building a list of individuals wanting to make money in a home based business.

      One thing that I would like to do is offer a free e-book in exchange for their name/number/email but my hiccup is that I use a corporate/team website and cannot edit to offer anything like that.

      Manny
      Signature

      Manny Rodriguez Blog:
      www.coachmannyrodriguez.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    Interesting thoughts James. With one list for example in this niche, what I have setup now is about 20 emails on AR spread out over 10 weeks with info emails and promo's mixed in for my own products. And then I send out broadcasts once a week with an affiliate promo. I'm going to test your technique with one of the lists.

    One more question for you if you don't mind. Do you do all of this on broadcasts or have you setup all of this on AR?

    Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
      Originally Posted by Bill_Z View Post

      Interesting thoughts James. With one list for example in this niche, what I have setup now is about 20 emails on AR spread out over 10 weeks with info emails and promo's mixed in for my own products. And then I send out broadcasts once a week with an affiliate promo. I'm going to test your technique with one of the lists.

      One more question for you if you don't mind. Do you do all of this on broadcasts or have you setup all of this on AR?

      Bill
      AR for it all with the exception of the launches of in-house products. Even then I sometimes drop in a launch sequence in the AR for a perpetual launch effect.

      Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author 6coupslee
    Very good topic, I will experiment with it to see how this works.
    thank you
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    Also remember that the dedicated people who sub to your list *want* to spend money for their solution.

    Not selling enough is like being bombarded with free meat samples when your customers want the full burger.

    I would also highly encourage list builders to start using OTO (one time offers) after they've opted in and gotten their freebie so you can weed out the dedicated buyers from the freebie seekers. There's an old saying that goes "I'd rather have 10 responsive buyers than 100 freebie seekers".
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