WARNING: This Statistic May Make You Feel Ill

12 years ago

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12 years ago

I'd like to mention two things.

First of all, I have a question. If only 1% are making real money in the real world, or in IM, then what the heck are we doing here? If I believed that I had as much or worse of a chance at making a living or more without much future work then I would just stick with my old job.

Secondly, the statistics come from here:

Big Idea Mastermind – The Reason Why… | Baysales Ltd's Empower Network Blog

Where the statistics come from matters immensely. It always bothers me somewhat that people have no problem claiming bias when the numbers don't fit into their model of the world, but will stand to the death for numbers that perfectly fit their models.

This essentially nullifies the purpose of statistics, if people will only believe the statistics that they want to. Myself included.

You can't just say that where the numbers come from doesn't matter. Someone trying to sell you on his MLM platform producing numbers that I can't find anywhere else (except places syndicating his numbers), I consider to be a rather untrustworthy source for statistics, and this doesn't even account for testing bias if his numbers are correct, based on whoever came up with or got them to begin with.

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Maui Joe

12 years ago

Originally Posted by robestrong

Secondly, the statistics come from here:

Big Idea Mastermind - The Reason Why... | Baysales Ltd's Empower Network Blog

and their statistic comes from where?

I doubt any meaningful study would produce precise numbers like that. But it doesn't take a genius or statistician to understand that most are losing this game.

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robestrong 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Maui Joe

and their statistic comes from where?

I doubt any meaningful study would produce precise numbers like that.

Exactly what I said... It irks me that we have these ghost numbers floating around that everyone agrees with.
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goindeep

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Maui Joe

and their statistic comes from where?

I doubt any meaningful study would produce precise numbers like that. But it doesn't take a genius or statistician to understand that most are losing this game.

Thank you. That was more my point.

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goindeep

12 years ago

Originally Posted by robestrong

Where the statistics come from matters immensely. It always bothers me somewhat that people have no problem claiming bias when the numbers don't fit into their model of the world, but will stand to the death for numbers that perfectly fit their models.

This essentially nullifies the purpose of statistics, if people will only believe the statistics that they want to. Myself included.

You can't just say that where the numbers come from doesn't matter. Someone trying to sell you on his MLM platform producing numbers that I can't find anywhere else (except places syndicating his numbers), I consider to be a rather untrustworthy source for statistics, and this doesn't even account for testing bias if his numbers are correct, based on whoever came up with or got them to begin with.

I dont think you read my post properly. I agree, however for the sake of the thread I said it was not necessary as in my opinion these statistics are accurate or at worst not far off. If you can find stats that are so wildly different please share them.

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DubDubDubDot

12 years ago

Accurate or not, I don't see anything disheartening about these stats.

The lion's share consists of newbies just checking things out, so you don't expect them to make anything. They don't count. Then there's the amateurs who aren't making their online activity a priority (they could be in school or have a job they don't intend on leaving), so they don't really count either. Then you've got the ill-prepared "pros" that crash & burn often because they seek out unstable opportunities. Again, more expected results.

The stats are a lot better for the group that builds up their skills and puts the daily work into building things that actually get done. There's obviously some luck involved, but I've never known anyone with a decent handle on design, coding, writing, marketing and so on that wished they had never spent the time learning that stuff.

I'm sure it's the people in a perpetual state of research and kinda-sorta working that regret it. They are the cause of the poor statistics.

Originally Posted by thedanbrown

The reason we're here is to learn how to get into that 1% who are making millions

1% aren't making millions. That's 1 in 100. Not possible considering all of the newbies and low level guys. The Industry wide multi-millionaire figure is probably closer to 0.01%. That's 1 in 10,000 and that seems more reasonable. That's factoring in dropouts also.

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Anonymous Affiliate

12 years ago

Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot

Accurate or not, I don't see anything disheartening about these stats.

The lion's share consists of newbies just checking things out... Then there's the amateurs who aren't making their online activity a priority... Then you've got the ill-prepared "pros" that crash & burn often because they seek out unstable opportunities. Again, more expected results.

I agree.

I don't see anything strange about 9X% of people failing to make money online. Just like 9X% fail to turn pro at their favorite sport, or to become top-executives in their respective jobs, or to play rock'n'roll at the Madison Square Garden, etc.

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andreas3

12 years ago

Originally Posted by robestrong

You can't just say that where the numbers come from doesn't matter. Someone trying to sell you on his MLM platform producing numbers that I can't find anywhere else (except places syndicating his numbers), I consider to be a rather untrustworthy source for statistics, and this doesn't even account for testing bias if his numbers are correct, based on whoever came up with or got them to begin with.

You forgot the most important question. How'd he get these numbers? Polling people on WarriorForum will only get you one part of the IM industry, and I doubt he did even that. ANYONE can be an "internet marketer"... even if they aren't part of the community, and I suspect some of the most successful are people that don't even consider themselves "in the IM industry."

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IMPromocoder

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Josh Monroe

Those statistics apply to more than just "IM" it's the same no matter what industry you look at the top 1% make more than the botom 99%.

Why should IM be any different?

Perhaps you're right that it applies to more than just IM, but not that many that enter other industries think they're going to be millionaires in no time..

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PerformanceMan

12 years ago

Why wouldn't most people fail?

They start with a hair-brained idea...no budget...and no clue what they're even doing....

They should fail.

The ones that fail but learn something from the experience are the ones who eventually succeed.

Even 'big successes' fail all the time. They just have more winners than losers to carry them. They never give up, though.

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Tina Golden

12 years ago

The blog shown doesn't indicate the source of the information, either, so it's meaningless. Without the proper framework, you can get statistics to match anything you want.

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robestrong

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

The blog shown doesn't indicate the source of the information, either, so it's meaningless. Without the proper framework, you can get statistics to match anything you want.

Exactly... It could be pulled out of the air for all we know. Especially as it's a sales post.

That's the only place where I could find those stats.

The most unsettling thing was when he said:

If you dont already know where these stats are from, I wont say as I really don't think it matters and that is not the point of this thread.

....

....

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Steve B 12 years ago

Several years ago, maybe 5 or so, I spent a lot of time analyzing small business start-ups in the US based upon businesses registered and licensed. It was part of my job in local economic development. The Census and other surveys were used but the numbers were pretty consistent with previous attempts to track small business success.

Only 20% of new business in the U.S. lasted a year. Of that 20%, only about 20% were still in business after 5 years. So just 4% of new businesses could make it to the 5-year mark. That's a 96% failure rate. (The businesses were a combination of both online and offline.)

I suspect the real number of failures was actually much greater because these were "registered and reporting" businesses. How many folks set up an online business and quickly abandon it without ever sending any info to Uncle Sam?

The point is, there are lots of folks that would like to run a successful business by very few that actually manage to create one.

You shouldn't let the statistics dash your dreams, but you ought to go into this battle with your eyes wide open and the very best plan of attack you can muster.

Steve
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kaposzta

12 years ago

I think the 80-20 rule applies here as well, and 20% of the IM-ers earn 80% of all the profit.

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Martin Luxton

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu

There is only like 2% that are actually KILLING IT online! These are your Millionaires.

Andrei,

So, if 2% are killing it online and (according to the Occupy Wall Street Movement) only 1% are killing it in the real world, then people are statistically two times more likely to succeed online than in the real world.

Martin

P.S. Did you see what I did with your figures? I quoted you but made a small, but significant, snip. I know people hardly ever compare later posts with the OP so I can probably get away with it. But, purely as an exercise in distortion, I have "proved" that your proposition is completely wrong.

Even if you show that I have misquoted you, I then accuse you of "doctoring the original post. You say "But, look, the original post hasn't been edited", by which time everybody has moved on to another thread and my figure has become the "truth" in their minds.

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Dan Curtis 12 years ago

It has been proven that 93% of all statistics are just made up with no evidence whatsoever.
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goindeep

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

Andre,

So, if 2% are killing it online and (according to the Occupy Wall Street Movement) only 1% are killing it in the real world, then people are statistically two times more likely to succeed online than in the real world.

Martin

P.S. Did you see what I did with your figures? I quoted you but made a small, but significant, snip. I know people hardly ever compare later posts with the OP so I can probably get away with it. But, purely as an exercise in distortion, I have "proved" that your proposition is completely wrong.

Even if you show that I have misquoted you, I then accuse you of "doctoring the original post. You say "But, look, the original post hasn't been edited", by which time everybody has moved on to another thread and my figure has become the "truth" in their minds.

Ive gone ahead and thanked you because you made my day. Hurrah for the Internet and written word!

LOlllllllllllll

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goindeep

12 years ago

I just did a quick search online and what I found validates a lot of this. As I did say in my OP, the stats will always differ slightly. If you look at reputable sources you will find out where the truth is at.

I think this is a good illustration of a type of Universal law.

Think about planting seeds, how many of those seeds actually take root, grow, survive, bear fruit and ultimately add to the whole process all over again?

Its the same for sperm, they say there are millions of sperm and yet only one makes it on the average.

Same for planets in the Universe that could possibly contain life, it seems every week I now am reading a new article about such and such planet in such and such galaxy having the potential to sustain life.

Same for prospecting for oil, minerals etc, how many times do you think they go out hunting, digging and drilling before they find anything?

Same with Salmon in the sea, about 4,000 eggs are laid then about 800 fry hatch and about 200 smolts go to sea and parr or fingerling reach adulthood and 2 salmon are alive to spawn.

On a more human level is it not this way for just about any professional in any field?

For example where I live, it's a tradie area, meaning that just about every second man and his dog is a trades man. Plumbers, electricians, concreters... heaps of concreters, lol, brick layers, plasterers, roof tilers and so on.

How many of these guys are in the million mark or that kind of range where they kick back and only make the decisions instead of being foot soldiers on the ground while creating maximum cash flow? You guessed it.

Im not saying none of them are successful. Hell no. Many of them probably earn really well. But they still have to get up every morning, go to work and still only get to holiday once or twice a year, drive an average or above average car...

Yet I see the big companies. The companies that started off with one guy and now he has turned his efforts into the 1,2,3 or 4 %.

And its the same for virtually everything that requires a growth through time and energy.

The haters can debate the figures, big deal, Lol. I mean who cares? That's not the point.

The point is that this is the reality and just by simply knowing this especially as a newbie you already are a step ahead of someone who doesn't and who is blindly walking into the dark, their mind filled with illusions or should I say "dillusions".

Take what you will.

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ExRat

12 years ago

Hi Andre,

The point is that this is the reality and just by simply knowing this especially as a newbie you already are a step ahead of someone who doesn't and who is blindly walking into the dark, their mind filled with illusions or should I say "dillusions".

Your point is valid - IE - there are probably people who are deluded and aren't in touch with reality and this may hinder them and cause others who face reality to be a step ahead.

But conversely, there are two opposing and equally important groups of people at the opposite end of the scale (which may provide further perspective on this issue, once these are considered as well) -

1) those who are more than capable of success who allow their negativity (which could alternatively be viewed as their 'being in touch with reality') to get in the way of their potential success

2) those who are not particularly capable, but due to their 'blind' positivity and determination succeed regardless of their deficit in the capability department

My point is that each of us has an ever-changing and most likely (due to all of the variables) unique blend of attributes, attitudes, skills and weaknesses.

Therefore it's impossible to define what can cause or lead to success and who will succeed or fail - we can only create rough guidelines such as -

'the more determined you are, the more likely you are to succeed, on average'

Refining my point further, each of us has a different or unique balance of positivity/negativity coupled with an ability/desire to face reality or not.

For some people, facing reality is a hindrance. For others, it is key. For most, it is somewhere in between.

.............

What I am reminded of by the wider points raised here is that to me, many of the statistics, chatter, discussion, articles and over all words and numbers written on the internet (and elsewhere) are ultimately quite meaningless and useless overall to most people.

It's often impossible to verify the source, their abilities, their intentions and would take too much time to verify these for each piece of information consumed.

In other words, we may be consuming ideas and information, but the odds of that information being accurate and/or useful is impossible to accurately fathom.

The people that I notice who (generally) have clearer thinking and more success are those who have gone past the point where they recognise that only a very small amount of the information available is particularly useful to them, so they categorise it as such, learn to quickly find and isolate the most important words and numbers and ignore most of the rest, conserving their time for their own output of words that are strictly applied to the most productive of uses.

So for example, my comments here on this thread (and those of others) have some use to me, but they are definitely not on the more productive side.

Whereas carefully crafted words applied to a page which is designed to make profit and produce customers, which will remain active for some time, is a much better use.

For clarity, what I am saying is that much of the information we find is probably best categorised as unverifiable speculation, opinion or plain nonsense.

The internet provides the opportunity for everyone to have their say and those with the most to say are probably most likely to have less time to think about what they are saying. Those who read/consume the most are probably most likely to have less time to verify the accuracy of what they read and possibly regurgitate.

The internet, at times, appears to magnify the concept of Chinese whispers. Forget this at your peril.

Disclaimer - this is just my unverified opinion

WARNING: This Statistic May Make You Feel Ill

Thanks for the warning, but an alleged survey of 5000 people, with no source quoted, from a clear vested interest writing a salesletter - no illness here mate

I just did a quick search online and what I found validates a lot of this.

[snip]

The point is that this is the reality

I think that's called a 'leap of logic'.

Its the same for sperm, they say there are millions of sperm and yet only one makes it on the average.

That's because there is usually only one egg available in the vicinity. if there were 1000s, 1000s might be fertilised.

Same for prospecting for oil, minerals etc, how many times do you think they go out hunting, digging and drilling before they find anything?

It doesn't matter what we 'think', why not ask or survey them and find some facts? Do you think they randomly dig/drill or use targetting procedures before they invest in a dig?

Same with Salmon in the sea, about 4,000 eggs are laid then about 800 fry hatch and about 200 smolts go to sea and parr or fingerling reach adulthood and 2 salmon are alive to spawn.

The reason they lay so many eggs is because they have adapted/evolved to increase their chances of success due to their environment. If humans tried to reproduce underwater we may have also evolved to develop a different method of ensuring success (or have died out).

The above are examples of 'faulty logic' which have led to your 'faulty' conclusion -

this is the reality

Sorry, but deconstructing your conclusion is only continuing in the spirit of the topic being discussed.

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thedanbrown

12 years ago

I think these statistics, although rough and inaccurate, are in the right ballpark but if you look at any industry there is a massive fail rate!

The reason we're here is to learn how to get into that 1% who are making millions, but the problem is that most people won't learn enough to experience that growth, and also out of the ones who do learn enough there are very few who actually DO what they are taught, knowledge is only power if you act on what you learn!

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tpw 12 years ago

Originally Posted by thedanbrown

I think these statistics, although rough and inaccurate, are in the right ballpark but if you look at any industry there is a massive fail rate!

It is usually not the businesses that fail, but the people who start the businesses... :p
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napoleonfirst

12 years ago

Well, my opinion here it that this industry is like any other. There are people and businesses start out the journey every day, some do it big, other average and others quit. This industry is youngsp and its future seems to be the mobile world as well.

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GoodFE

12 years ago

Well you could use statistics to prove anything :p

Besides, most of the people that make nothing in 6 months probably made like 2 squidoo lens or else are still trying to find their feet.

IM gets overrun with people thinking its easy and wanting to make a quick buck, so these stats are definitely inflated.

If you were to look at the stats of people that actually research IM and invest etc, it would tell a much different tale.

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George Wright

12 years ago

And 97 percent of the people who breath will never live to age 110. Still I'm trying. So far so good.

George Wright

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Rbtmarshall 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu

...
There is only like 1-2% that are actually KILLING IT online! These are your Millionaires...

Originally Posted by George Wright

And 97 percent of the people who breath will never live to age 110...

It seems that we have a better chance of living to the age of 110, than we do killing it online.
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Nightengale

12 years ago

Originally Posted by George Wright

And 97 percent of the people who breath will never live to age 110. Still I'm trying. So far so good.

George Wright

LOL Love it!

As others have pointed out, you can easily get statistics from the Department of Labor (or whatever department tracks that stuff). And it DOES include online and offline businesses. But only those who are reporting.

It DOESN'T cover every Dick and Jane trying to make a buck online, although I'm sure there's a formula to multiply the known numbers by some multiple to arrive at a rough approximation that can be used as a reasonable estimate. (I just love run on sentences!)

If the general statistic is a 95% failure rate (by the Dept. of Labor), you can at least apply that to IM. It's probably greater though, given the greater statistic of people trying it. Or, it might be a bit less, but there's no way to know for sure because there's no way to know exactly how many people are succeeding in IM.

Whatever.

Statistics aside, Andrei Rotariu and Rod Cortez offer really good points. I think that most of the Joe Beerbellys trying to make a buck online don't treat their business like a business. This is my pet peeve with so many here on the WF.

They come online expecting instant riches.

They're not willing to put in the time.

They're not willing to put in some effort.

They're not willing to educate themselves.

Etc.

And as PerformanceMan said, they DESERVE to fail.

I really do "get" why people want to make money online without investing anything. But it's the wrong mindset to have and will cause more problems than it solves. I believe you CAN make money online with little money invested. I don't believe you can make money with NO money invested.

Yes, I know there are always exceptions, but I'm not talking about the exceptions.

Of course, the idea is to make money with as little money invested as possible. It's what all successful businesses do. But trying to get away with investing NO money (even for a domain and hosting) is, well, rather ridiculous.

It's like trying to bake a cake but refusing to use the oven.

Michelle

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goindeep

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Nightengale

LOL Love it!

As others have pointed out, you can easily get statistics from the Department of Labor (or whatever department tracks that stuff). And it DOES include online and offline businesses. But only those who are reporting.

It DOESN'T cover every Dick and Jane trying to make a buck online,

That is right. It doesnt cover everyone and hence the figure would be even higher.

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MackSell

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu

Our industry (if I can call it that) is full of statistics and numbers.

Yet we have no idea how many successful people there are.

I mean you hear things all the time.

Here is something that I personally thought was very interesting.

I had it emailed to me last night from a list I am on (some of you are probably on it also) in case you are not I thought I would share as I feel this is pretty important at gauging the whole of our industry in terms of 2 very simple statistics.

91.6% of people
earn LESS than $100 per month online.

76% of them actually earn ZERO (even thought they started
at least 6 months ago).

If you dont already know where these stats are from, I wont say as I really don't think it matters and that is not the point of this thread.

Look at it from this point of view, most statistics from surveys will almost always favor what the applying party wants to push however in the end almost all statistics are still roughly in the right ball park when it comes to the right figure if done properly i.e. you wouldnt compare the obesity rate of the U.S. compared with China and sell those results as all encompassing and worldy.

Anyway's, not to be arrogant or anything but I believe this is something I have been banging on about for years now:

There is only like 1-2% that are actually KILLING IT online! These are your Millionaires.

Think about it.

If these stats are telling us that only 9% (technically 8.4%) are making more than $100 per week, then Im going to assume and conclude that around half of them (4% of total) arn't earning much more then that.

Maybe something between a few hundred dollars to a standard low to medium wage 1K - 4K per month???

Then Im going to assume that yet again half of that 4% (2% of total) are earning fairly decent money. Decent to me is between 5k - 10K per month and again I think that very roughly half of that (1% of total figure) is actually making a killing online.

With some rough numbers to start with and a hell of a lot of assuming, I honestly believe that is the right figure... approximately-ish

...or at least not far off, right?

Whats the point of all this? For me, it was great to see these stats, especially seeing as I didnt go looking for it. Because for me it validates something I personally know and have experienced. Working online can be fun, it can give you possibilities and freedoms you have never dreamed of... but you still have to work your ass off.

Money just doesnt fall in your lap no matter what industry or area of work you are in. You have to knuckle down, at least in the beginning.

I think part of that massive failure rate is due of course to the fact that online marketing and online entrepreneurship is so easy to get into. Anyone can get started right now, some even for free!

What happens is a false sense of security.

Its like this analogy; my brother was recently honey mooning in Bora Bora, Moorea and Tahiti. He was telling me the water is like waist deep for kilometers on end from the shore line and then all of a sudden without any warning you get to edge of the sand belt, you step forward and you are no longer standing, but swimming in water that goes 40 something metres below!

Imagine if you cant swim!

It is exactly like that.

This business of ours does by its very nature allure people because of its easy access. Then people naively or some plain ignorantly believe because they can get started on an hour a day and no money, that is how to push forward.

Its like saying your going to start your plumbing business with no money invested in a truck, tools and materials and only working on the weekends! It is ridiculous. Yet online, people somehow believe that all they need is their laptop and the time for working between The Simpsons and The Big Bang Theory to succeed...

The message for me or form me is; it doesnt matter how easy something is to get involved in or how much money you think you can make, everything in life requires an exchange of energy, time put away, and even if you do that you could still screw it up if you dont do it intelligently!

Im telling you from experience. Forget what the hokey and puffed up sales pages are telling you, use common sense, work your ass, ask for advice (here is good), have patience, invest wisely and biggest of all LEARN & GROW.

I hope you found this helpful.

I Don't Agree!
If they are Making 0 Dollars then Why they would be Online for 6 Months.
They Might Have Left Internet Marketing.

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kencalhn

12 years ago

and most of the people that are names we know in IM, don't spend their lives on forums... a lesson learned which is why I was absent from here for many years... just sayin' ... do what the 'big guys' do, follow their launches and biz models

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Cesar Sampaio

12 years ago

If we separate the serious people actually working on their business from the mildly curious, the desperate and the tire kickers the numbers would change a lot.

But even then I doubt people would bother disclosing how much money they are making in a survey.

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Young Financier

12 years ago

I don't know why that statistic would make anyone feel ill, because if you analyze any industry, the number of failures and successes would be about the same.

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talfighel

12 years ago

Here's another statistic for you to follow.

Over 70% of the people who do get started in online marketing never succeed.

4 MAJOR reasons for that:

They don't believe in themselves.

They don't think that they deserve success.

They are not willing to do what ever it takes.

They want something for nothing.

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schttrj 12 years ago

You can write howsoever inspiring comments you like, or that these stats are fictitious.

Here's one thing to know:

Search over the internet and you will know that 96% of the registered and reported businesses fail in their first year. And that's pretty much higher in the online world.

In the online world, people play by the Bigger Fool theory. Someone sells you an eBook on how to self-publish, you self-publish a book on Forex somehow though it doesn't sell that much, someone buys your book on Forex and they start creating a Forex product, someone else buys that...it goes on and on.

But the thing is, most of these people are NOT experts and you are gathering information from the amateurs themselves, and you get stuck in a downward spiral. That's all there is. If you are an expert, you will shine though. Unfortunately, very FEW experts are out there. My personal experience.

It's rehashing and repackaging, and that NEVER gonna persist over time. Focus on value, value and value!
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karlmay1980

12 years ago

I have been working online for over 4 years and made money for a few years of that, and agree with what you are saying.

I meet people daily that have worked online for months and even years without any success whatsoever, they get sucked in by high promises of life changing incomes from very little hours but then never have what it takes to make it work.

They also are willing to put in work but not money to get to that promised land, but don't realise this is half the reason why they are failing.

The truth is that like me they have invested and been stung and dont want to have to sell the shirt off their back to make something work but will work night and day to try and master it.

They could however build a better business with a little of both cash and time, and be very successful very quickly as promised, but they have to change their focus as I did.

I spent 10s of thousands and never had success then when had very little left I knew I was doing something wrong and had to change my focus to become a success, I had very little money then so had to do it on a budget and put hours in, but I also invested money no matter how small in my business to to speed up success, probably saving me months of more work trying to scavenge around for information to help speed up growth instead of working day and night on techniques that were not moving or helping me grow quickly.

I invested time and money in learning strategies and advertising, plus tested conversions to see what gave the best returns all of which I had been naive towards when spending thousands, these days I still do this to keep growing.

If I knew then what I do now then I wouldn't of had to struggle, I believe I could of been a success in just a few months top, unfortunately I had to do it the long way round, but this has been much more beneficial long term as I can quickly see what is going wrong and change things.

I believe that if more people learnt how to manage things instead of been told there is instant success to be had or you dont need money to succeed, then more people would succeed.

There are millions of people wanting to earn online but only 1% will make it to the dream lifestyle.

I make about 2 times what I ever did in a paid job and love what I do so the hard work been worthwhile, but it is far short of to 7 figures plus that were ever promised and I shot money at thinking I couldn't fail.

I think the IM World has got to own up and start delivering more quality content and want to make these people succeed instead of being happy just taking their money.

Maybe they want to be oblivious to the truth behind the figures so they dont have to feel guilty about the rubbish they produce.

Yes there is thousands of people that do want to help, hence the feeds on this forum, people dedicating time and energy giving free advice.

Some WSO's offer fantastic value, some for a few dollars better than I paid hundreds and even thousands for.

These are the people that deserve to sell programs for hundreds and even thousands because they work and will make people money, but unfortunately for every good one there is probably another 10 trying to scam and earn a few quid of the desperate and vulnerable.

The internet is a good place to hide your identity and many have fed off this, they create scams which can end in people losing homes and families splitting up because of the stress.

Once they are found out they can change their identity to another alias and set up something similar again, until they are found out.

If these people would just realise that they can offer so much and earn more legitimate incomes by teaching how people can position their businesses in front of the right buyers they would be just as successful, instead of selling false dreams.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Well, Nobody can really know:

1. How many sites are on the internet
2. How many people are on the internet
3. How many have some money collection scheme on the internet*
4. How many TRY to get money on the internet.
5. What their needs are.
6. What their goals are.
7. What their expenses are.

etc....

WHY? EASY! Take into account MY situation. At one point, I appeared to have several hundred sites on the internet. It may have looked like many were separate. I only had 3 servers. My hosts didn't know what I was doing, so how could anyone else? OK, I had a relationship with amazon, but I usually didn't push it. At one point I had over 400 affiliate accounts. Yeah, I COUNTED! OK, I automated the count, but it was right. I did that to load my password safe since it was getting hard to remember them all. Anyway, do you think I EVER tried to promote ALL of them? NO WAY! The closest I came was a kind of affiliate search engine, almost like the plugin site type concept. For the record, mine was earlier, but it looked and worked a lot like google but used affiliate links. Nice concept, but I moved on to other things.

I have several ways I can get paid, and most aren't recorded anywhere.

I could list lots more cases. Some have sites they have practically all but abandoned, but they can still make money. But any statement of numbers is only an ESTIMATE. IP numbers have ALREADY been sold, etc... OH, you say, YOU bought an IP address just yesterday? That's what YOU think! What you DID was buy a LEASE to an address sold to someone ELSE! Technically THEY lease them too, but same concept. And they lease sequential packets(The smallest available number is like 256!), so if a few, or maybe even a few thousand, aren't used they can't very well say "we don't need these anymore".

Anyway, I CAN believe much of what they said. And it only gets harder as time passes. A lot of old sources of traffic are practically dry, some others now charge, others have a lot more competition, etc....

As for WHY someone would pick the Internet over a day job? WHO SAYS it is either/or? If anyone could sell anything 100% of the time, the market would dry up! All the consumers would get the item at cost. I saw that start to happen in the computer industry in the mid 80s. So those that sell depend on those that don't having more trouble elsewhere. It might be support, quality, availability, price, but that is the case. If all that were the same, sales at any one place would DROP!

HEY, I once came CLOSE to getting a quarter million dollar a month contract! WHY? Was it that they couldn't get the product? NOPE! It was EASY to get! Was it support or quality? NOPE! It was IDENTICAL! Was it price? Get this, they could do it for about $50,000+ LESS per month! So WHY would they want to go with me? If I could guarantee that they could get it in a reasonable amount of time. The item in question took 3 weeks to get! I decided it was too much of a risk, and passed on it. BTW THAT conversation started ONLY because I knew the manufacturer, had a contract with them, noticed that Toys R US was buying them from a middleman, and asked WHY! They weren't happy with THAT middleman, BTW, as he couldn't deliver them fast enough.

Steve

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agmccall 12 years ago

You know, I read the post and that statistic does not make me ill. Who cares and how do they know

al
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Andy Money

12 years ago

If you dont already know where these stats are from, I wont say as I really don't think it matters and that is not the point of this thread.

Haven't laughed that hard in a while man, thanks.

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clintmyers

12 years ago

Yeah, I am not sure about all the stats floating around. Everyone "says" they are making it full time but probably most are just barely doing it. IE. living in basement of parents house, 1 bedroom apt...

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by clintmyers

Yeah, I am not sure about all the stats floating around. Everyone "says" they are making it full time but probably most are just barely doing it. IE. living in basement of parents house, 1 bedroom apt...

Yeah, I can tell you MANY lie. I even wonder about some that seem to really be making it.

Steve

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goindeep

12 years ago

Literal much?

I think some people are taking a fairly literal approach to a thread that is purposely supposed to be vauge yet using specifics.

The interesting thin I find is that no on is reporting wildly different statistics :rolleyes:

@ ExRat, you are right. I believe in mindset, I believe it can determine where you go and I believe it can be changed.

However I also believe that there are many other factors other then mind set.

At the end of the day everyone can kick and shout but the stats are roughly accurate in my opinion and I am still to see something that says otherwise.

I think some of us here have taken the wrong approach to the thread. I posted it as a reality or wake up call for newbies or even as a reminder to the more seasoned entrepreneurs.

Lets be honest our industry uses the most pufferey of any other. Our industry is also full of more un-regulated information on tips, tricks, strategies, systems, plans and guides than any other.

Not everyone likes cold hard truth in the way of an icy bucket tipped on their heads. That's just the way it is. Call it negative, positive, whatever... thats not the point I say yet again.

Yesterday when replying I was searching online for accurate stats. Because Im a P**k I dont want to post them but virtually everything I found was in the same ball park.

Google it for yourself and see what you find.

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Martin Luxton

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu

I think some people are taking a fairly literal approach to a thread that is purposely supposed to be vauge yet using specifics.

[snip]

Google it for yourself and see what you find.

Andrei,

I'm not saying the "fundamental truth" you're expounding is wrong, but I think a fairly literal approach is useful addition to this thread if you want to educate newbies to see an issue like this in a broader light.

You invite people to google for the info. Are you saying that people should trust a site that is notorious for manipulating search results?

EU to force Google to change listing of search results: report

Even if the top ten results haven't been manipulated Google doesn't guarantee anything as to the quality/veracity of the information.

How about we start a campaign that says Andrei Rotariu has been voted the sexiest man in Australia? With a bit of backlinking, Social Media love, Wikipedia manipulation and videos, when somebody goes to Google and types in "Who is the sexiest man in Australia?" the answer will be you.

Hmmm. Now there's a thought - off to work on my campaign to be the sexiest man in the universe.

Martin

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ronorr

12 years ago

I believe a lot of people are spending years just trying to figure out how to get the technology to work for them. To me it's about time leverage and figuring out how to use time and money leverage to your advantage and not waste time or money when possible. There are so many dead ends on the internet and stuff that is just hype I do agree with this. Thanks for this post.

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

If excellence and success were easy, nearly everyone would would attain it. It takes a certain skill set, mindset, focus, and discipline to start any business in any industry. I'm not talking about buying advertising and sending it to a few CPA offers; that isn't a real business and is not sustainable.

The person who is truly committed to studying success and pursuing it with the right work ethic and mindset has a 99.9% of succeeding; so the 90 plus percentage failure would not apply to them.

To be blunt, most people that I've coached or even talked with, aren't cut out for starting their own business, and there are a plethora of reasons behind that.

Some people are just hobbyists, they're really not serious about starting a business.

Some people are constantly looking for shortcuts or the next shiny new object (and probably fall into the category above).

Some people have maturity issues and until they grow up, they're not going to see any real success.

Some people have emotional / personal issues that they need to deal with first before they try and start a business.

Some people quit when things get tough (sometimes that's a sign that they are actually getting closer to the result they want).

Some people aren't willing to make the tough choices or aren't willing to look at the long-term opportunity costs. I kid you not, I had a guy who wouldn't give up his favorite TV shows and his two favorite video games to invest more time into his business......5 years later he Skypes me, complaining that his business has flopped.

I was like, "Are you freakin' serious????"

I could list 99 more reasons, but I think you're feeling me at this point.

RoD

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goindeep

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

If excellence and success were easy, nearly everyone would would attain it. It takes a certain skill set, mindset, focus, and discipline to start any business in any industry. I'm not talking about buying advertising and sending it to a few CPA offers; that isn't a real business and is not sustainable.

Keyword for me was "sustainable".

Sustainability for me is a critical success factor. When I look into a business that is what I look for most often.

The problem with people that enter internet marketing is the fact that they google "How To Make Money Online". MMO (make money online) is really the flagship of the opposite to a sustainable business.

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Paul Irvine

12 years ago

I wouldn't doubt these stats for a second, maybe a variation of a MAXIMUM of 2-3% either way but yes...this is probably the case for many trying to "make it" online.

The main reasons are the ones we see on here time and time again though:
- Chasing every "new" method to make money faster

- Won't get off their backside and DO something, they expect the money to magically
materialize

- No focus...at all. Might spend AGES doing stuff like learning methods but NEVER
implementing them

This may sound really BRUTAL, but the work ethics in the online world are very similar to that of the "9-5 sheep".

There are those guys at the top of the company earning the $$$ because it's THEIR company. A huge percentage of employees do the very minimum to keep their jobs and their salaries and won't be promoted or get more pay as they're too lazy to get going.

At the end of the day, making money online in whatever area it happens to be is NOT for everyone. Those that believe that a few clicks of the mouse and writing some text will make them fortunes online sadly need a reality check...it does NOT happen that way.

Hard work, research, self education and PERSEVERANCE is the ONLY way to get money coming in from online sources, and that is FACT (unless you've got a shedload of cash to blow on outsourcers and advertising - not the case for most of us)

And even when you do get some cash appearing in your paypal or bank account, if you want to make a fulltime income from it, your methods have to be scalable and sustainable.

Creating a WSO or any kind of digital product and expecting tons of cash to appear just isn't going to happen without a LOT of things in place first.

Sorry if all that sounds negative, but in no way should people be seeing this as the "easy street" way of making a living, it can be and most of the time (to begin with) can be so stressful and full of confusion it explains why the stats are the way they are!

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pepelino

12 years ago

Personally i think these statistics are sometimes marketing gimmicks. There's always a reason behind statistics like this one... It's there to either encourage or discourage people from chasing their dreams. Even if it's only 1% that's making a killing, you too can still be among that 1%... It's all about the right mindset. Forget statistics and keep pushing.

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Opeleroy

12 years ago

60% of the time, statistics are misleading and biased all of the time. And that is proven by science.

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ratracegrad

12 years ago

Those who succeeded are the ones who make an effort and continue with that effort over time. I bet that is true 97.2% of the time.

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owenlee

12 years ago

That is why we need lots of motivation to overcome such facts...haha

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Michael Ten

12 years ago

Formal education really probably is a better way of increasing one's income earning potential than is trying to earn money online. However, I am well educated but I'd rather earn money online. Lololol.

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goindeep

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Ten

Formal education really probably is a better way of increasing one's income earning potential than is trying to earn money online. However, I am well educated but I'd rather earn money online. Lololol.

Depends what you mean by formal education?

If you mean paying between 30K and 100K for a "formal" education in a professional field, then flipping burgers for the next 3 years while paying off your debt and living off of bread, pasta and instant coffee, getting a job as some s**t kicker in your desired industry, working your way up to middle management over a period of ten years, while still being severely in debt because of your dream home mortgage and of course that lingering "formal" education debt... then hopefully making it to upper management within 5-10 years before retirement...

Then I dont think I agree.

Education is very important, basic high school level and some form of affordable, realistic and practical tertiary education (agree on that front if that is what you mean my formal eduaction). I think most Universities and Colleges are selling rubbish and charging prices that are way passed the point of clinical insanity. Marketing is the perfect example of this... my surgeon isn't (he should totally go to university) I think a good LOL is required at this point

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Anton543

12 years ago

Interesting read but how accurate are the stats laid out?

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clever7

12 years ago

I believe that these statistics are realistic, even if they are not exact. The truth is that it's very hard to learn how to make money online with all the competition we face. Making money online is like making money offline. You need a system, knowledge, skills, money, a business plan, and many other details just to begin with.

Of course most of the people who claim that they are making money are liars who want to sell their lies to those who dream with magical ways to make money online.

Some people are making money online, but most people are only dreaming.

There are many dishonest people taking advantage of the idea that making money online is easy.

I was one of the victims of such lies when my online adventures begun, a long time ago. I wanted to promote my scientific discoveries; I was not just trying to make money online like most people. My story was totally different. I started wanting to sell only my own products.

If I knew that internet marketing was so complicated I wouldn't have the courage to begin... I understood that all internet marketers hide the bitter truth from the public with the intention to take advantage of their ignorance.

Making money online is complicated. You must do many things if you want to have an organized website that sells something.

I studied internet marketing after creating my products and my websites. Only later I understood how silly I was because I believed that it was simple to create a professional website...

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Ryan David

12 years ago

There is no way that 1% of the people online are making serious money (millionaires, as you suggest). Even the people you think are doing well, probably aren't doing that well.

If you just take a benchmark of $500/month, I would bet less than 1% are even making that.

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Adam Adair

12 years ago

90% of the time that is true all of the time. Ha, but really..isn't the goal to be that top 1%? Or for many maybe it's just to eek out a living without getting stuck on someone's payroll.

Dream big. Work hard.

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