Not that I have a list or use one, but I do know that building a relationship with people on your list is VERY important. In fact THE most important thing if you plan on making repeat offers to them.

There's a world of difference between just selling products, and selling products or services to a list.

Then again, what do I or anyone else on WF that you've just trashed with your pathetic statement, know. You've a lot to learn.

Perhaps, it is you that isn't the type of person someone wants to have a relationship with?

I got gas at the corner gas station this morning and when I went inside to pay, the guy behind the counter already had a French Vanilla cappuccino ready for me.

When I walked into Tubby's last week, the owner called me by name and asked if I wanted the usual.

When I checked out at the grocery store Saturday, the cashier asked me how my grandchildren were doing.

When I went to the bank on Friday, the teller greeted me with, "Hi Terra! I love your new pink purse!"

That sounds like relationships to me, no?

You might say it is because I go to the same places all the time and you would be correct. Why do I go to the same places all of the time rather than different gas stations, sub shops, grocery stores and banks? Because they have gone out of their way to develop a relationship with me.

Terra

A big part of the difference is that online people don't
get to deal with you face to face, so the trust factor
is much more important. They are entering their credit
card info into a web form and often nervously hoping
that they get what they think they are buying.

In the brick-and-mortar world, companies have spend
hundreds of millions building brands... and using that
to define both the quality of the products and what you
can expect from the company.

Branding IS relationship building!

Willie

It's even more important online since the #1 reason why people don't buy is lack of TRUST. Building a relationship with your subscribers builds trust. Once they trust you, you can recommend many different products to them.

Your ignorance is staggering.

Mr Crawford was 100% right. A lot of money is invested in brands, so we develop a relationship with their look, feel, ideals and slogans - possibly even moreso than internet products.

Your argument is that price and presentation are the only indicative factors in a purchase.

The art of sales is the art of rapport.

Look at the way car salesman operate - no relationships there right? Like Terra, I return to all the businesses that treat me as a person, small social gestures such as saying hello, asking if I want the 'usual' etc.

I sometimes make impulse purchases, purely for the reason I 'like' the seller, not because I needed the actual product.

Get educated in this arena, if you are looking to make some money in the IM field.

I dunno, I like my customers.

Ok, I take back some of the venom from my post, for this absolute gem you posted on the 'Where can I find a Kindle Writer?' thread:



LMFAO, WF not usually the place to go for acid wit like that

Dude, people who use the web to buy stuff are not just "numbers", they are real people with emotions just like you.

The golden rule is, if you didnt know it......."sell yourself first".

I just get the feeling you cant be bothered

Succesful Troll is succesful.

I think it really depends what kind of business you run. I know plenty of small business in my town that get all of their business from the relationships they have with the community. Obviously large corporations that have products like splenda don't have to build a relationship with you because they already own a large portion of the market but think about how a company that would want to compete with splenda would have to do. I think they would probably have to start by creating relationships with future customers and getting them interested in their product.

The point everyone is trying to get acroos is that you do not have the resources to do what splenda have done, the next best thing is build a base of followers that value your recomendations and are willing to suspend their disbelief or distrust because you have invested the time to help them achieve something no matter how big or small, and actually buy a product simply because YOU recomended it.

I'd be interested to know what model you follow and how much repeat busines you get from your list if you believe that relationship building is B.S.?

The OP clearly does not understand the basic principles involved with building and maintaining a list/relationship. Or branding a business. Or how the two can be combined. Nor has he/she shown a desire to understand it. So everyone posting here is just wasting their time.

My best guess is that the OP 'tried' to build some type of relationship/list with his customers, forced a bunch of crap products down their throat, which they didn't buy, got mad, and posted this thread.

Maybe what wesd22 might be trying to highlight is the somewhat "fake" side of the relationship building strategies used in marketing by companies, and more specifically in email marketing.

The fact is that if you are on a marketers list, then most likely the marketer may not even know that you exist unless you reply to one of their emails and you end up having a conversation. It is also very likely that the marketer really does not care deeply about you, nor do they really want to build a personal relationship with you and get to know you in dept. (What they do want to know is what type of items you are in the market for). Therefore what a marketer really wants, is to build a relationship with your wallet. That sounds shallow, but it is what it is. Online and offline.

Thus if you are a marketer, and I am on your list, you will surely be working hard (for weeks or months if that's what it takes) on making me feel comfortable enough with you in order for me to pull out my credit card and buy whatever you're selling. Why else did you build your list, and why else did you ask me to opt in right?

And so maybe this is the kind of "building a relationship stuff" that the OP is referring to, and is tired of.

If you do a search on the warrior forum for questions such as: "how many friendly free advice emails should I send them before I try to sell them my crap?",

(I'm paraphrasing here)

you will then see answers such as, "well you need to build a relationship with them first and get them to trust you by giving them some free tips etc....
then once they think you are their friend, then sell them your crap!".

Relationship building could mean a lot of different things to different people.
The term "relationship" could mean anything! Its Not necessary a good thing.

Criminals who want to steal from you often have to "build a relationship" with you
first so you trust them. Then, they steal your money. Can you really call this relationship building?

As it was mentioned, Pepsi is consistently delivering the same product so you can trust them, but
drinking Pepsi might be very bad for your health and maybe the owners of Pepsi know this,
they just don't care about you! They want to take your money. (BTW: I have no idea if this is really the case with Pepsi, I am just using Pepsi to make a point. Pepsi might be the best thing for your health, I really don't know)

The situation is the same with the IM person who wants to build a "relationship" with their list so they can later sell them something that is : 1. Not really good for them 2. They are Not sure if it is good for them 3. They couldn't care less if its good for them or not.

Here is the reality: we have to build or sell a product that we KNOW will be good for the people who buy it. A product we feel good about. A product that we would happily give to any of our family members to use. A product we use ourselves and love. Then, we try to market that product to anyone who is interested.

This way REAL relationships will develop between you and your costumers! Otherwise its all a deliberate intent to deceive the people on your list for your own personal gain!

Relationship building isn't about making the first sale, it's about the lifetime customer value. There are two glaring flaws with your conclusion here. First, both the restaurant and hotel you reference did build a relationship with you - you just don't seem to understand what that means. The menu and room amenities are only part of the equation that determines whether you'll ever return there. Would you go back if the staff you interacted with had a bad attitude? Probably not. How the staff interacts with the customer is relationship building, and it's important. The "product" is the food and the room, but the "experience" is how you were treated. That human touch is just as important of a factor as to whether or not you'll go back.

As for the products, no product "sells itself". All of the ones you've named have retail contracts and mass budgets, which creates awareness and can let you circumvent the relationship process. Yet for some reason all of those companies have Facebook pages... why do you think that is? They aren't selling their products on Facebook. It's a consumer engagement strategy. So even they, with all of their marketing budgets and retail distribution, still choose to build relationships with their customers.

You have a lot to learn, but you're in the right place to start learning it.

According to this quote, he's a lawyer.

You know, lawyers are known for being blood sucking, but the one I stayed with BUILT A RELATIONSHIP with me. I found him because he was the best, and stayed with him because he built a relationship with me.

At the start of a Business, relationship, giveaways, offers are very very important. Once you in the market, you do not need to build any new relationship. Also, relationship is not needed for every business.

This guy is a moron trying to get a buzz going on this thread. We all know he is full of s#@t. Best to ignore the thread and let it die.

Well I know for a fact if you build a relationship with the right people then your life can change over night. We as human was meant to have relationship with others people. Does that mean you can't be successful online with out building a relationship? No of course you can. Making money is all about solving problems. Me personally, I want to build relationship with others.

I've generally thought the kind of "relationship" building that takes place in email marketing is that of the list owner becoming a trusted authority, mentor, or leader.

I agree with this guy 100 percent some offers are not worth building a relationship over.

Believe it or not, you inadvertently have a strong relationship with Splenda & Pepsi.

Every marketing approach requires some degree of relationship building. How many Pepsi commercials have you seen on TV or heard on the radio telling/showing you how good their product is. They show their commercials so many times that by the time you run into the product in stores you know exactly what it is and you know its good. In that way they have built trust and essentially built a relationship with you.

You just here about building a relationship so much more in IM because most of the products being sold or advertised are digital, and you need to build more trust to sell something that someone can't hold in their hands.

I give more business to business owners and service providers who have developed a relationship with me, plain and simple.

Building relationships is the backbone of marketing. Everything else follows. Why give freebies for a list, why do products give free samples? Because you first form a relationship then everything else will follow.

Embracing the N.u.d.e. Model - The New Art and Science of Referral Marketing: Scott Degraffenreid and Donna Blandford: 9780977173808: Amazon.com: Books
Scott Degraffenfield is a mathematician turned business consultant. His model involves focusing on the relationship with the customer and adapting operations to the customer in a very systematic and mathematically measurable way. His goal is to strive for a 1 to 1 referral ratio, ie. 1 referral from every existing customer. The numbers are statistically significant to the positive. Staggering actually. This is across many industries and B to B as well as B to C.

In some cases he has turned businesses around and has helped clients get more business than they can handle.

Peppers and Rogers have a similar model with measurable results as well.

Is Your Company Ready for One-to-One Marketing? - Harvard Business Review

http://www.managingchange.com/onetoone/overview.htm

A few years ago I read about a large company, Bath and Body I believe, that measured the value of each customer on it's email lists at around $17 USD. Meaning that each they emailed a deal, they would get about $17 average from each customer. At that time they had around 50,000 on their email lists.

Artificial relationships - no. Genuine business/marketing relationships with customers or clients - yes.

Dan

I believe that building a relationship with you list is better in the long run but there are many top Internet Marketers that do not build relationships and do rather well.

Every day i get email after email off these guys even after i have unsubscribed from their list.So in this instance they are not building a relationship they are just p*****g
me off.

So i agree with you in some ways.

You don't build a relationship unless you talk to that person over the phone or Skype. I don't go to Facebook mastermind groups to chat with other people. I go to get problems solved.

I agree with wesd22. Most business transactions don't involve a relationship.

When someone says relationship marketing they're talking about buying from someone you can see. I like it if the person selling me something has a photo and video testimonials, but ultimately it's all about the product and if it's going to work for me.

I have to agree with a previous poster, maybe you don't have relationships that are involved in products or services you buy, but some of us do.

I like Ford cars. Why? Because my late father was a Ford man.

I prefer Mountain Dew to other soft drinks. Why? Because my best friend Lenny introduced me to it after a night that brought me my first hangover as a teen.

I don't even have to tell my barber how I like my hair cut. In fact I enjoy how my cousin jokes I'm the only person who gets a hair cut that leaves a pile of hair and looks like they still need a hair cut. Oh, yeah, my cousin is my barber.

When I belly up to the bar my favorite bartender asks if it's a Blue Light, Captain and Coke, Beam on the Rocks, or straight cola night? Why? Because they know what I drink and what kind of mood I'm in based on what I want to drink. Unless it's dinner time, then they ask, want a menu, or do you know what you want. They also know tons of other things about me, and one of my favorite bartenders knows me well enough that they can honestly say I helped them build their house. Why? Because we are friends.

I use Hostgator for my webhosting, and I went out of my way to make sure that a podcaster whose show I enjoy got a commission when I signed up for that webhosting. Why? Because I like their content and I have enjoyed the email conversations we have had about a topic of common interest. Hmmm, again I think a relationship was involved.

I found my favorite sandwich place, not because of advertising, not because it was on my way somewhere and I just popped in, not because a sign made me think, hey I should try that place, but because my friend said, hey, that place over there has THE BEST sandwiches, you hungry? Yup, again, a relationship sold me.

I will be watching a TV show later tonight that very few people watch, that is on an obscure cable channel, and that almost NO ONE is aware of, why? Because my best friend from college is one of the series regulars on the show. Hmmm, relationships strike again.

I SPENT MORE money on a piece of comparable electronic equipment from a DIFFERENT manufacturer earlier this year because a friend said that IT WAS WORTH SPENDING $300 more to get a good one than buy a bad one from an inferior manufacturer. Hmmm, relationships, funny how they influence purchases right????

You already have a relationship with the product you are mentioning that's why you can name them. You know that you can trust Pepsi, that's why you aren't spending money on a fizzy drink called Yabler or something. The brand is the relationship, it is the recognition!
You may find that you can make more money if you are more engaged with your veiwers because a relationship is important, it keeps them oming back and spending more that's why you have a favorite restaurant, bar or steakhouse!
Everyone needs a little extra sweetness

It's all about trust in my opinion, if someone feels like they know you/your brand they are more likely to buy. Hence why you by Pepsi over any old brand of Cola, because you know and trust the brand.

Well, I have to say that my whole business model is based on relationship building AKA actually taking the time to talk to and help people who need it. I didn't really formulate it as a business model but over the last couple of years it has developed that way and that's just fine.

If you are anything like me you make a mental note of the IM'rs who are obviously just in it for themselves and have no real interest in delivering real value. Think some of the super Gurus and you'll see where I'm coming from. I've personally spent over $20,000 on my online education and yes I do make my living online now.

BUT I've made a lot of good friends along the way and that has been a huge bonus.

Relationship building - yes, every time

Thing is: we all get too many emails every day, and we're very selective with the emails we read and the ones we ignore.

The only way to get your subscribers' attention (so they read your emails) is to engage them, to create a bond so they're looking forward your emails, and that by definition requires some relationship-building.

The OP is being naive.

Relationship building, from the marketing/advertising perspective, is about appealing to your needs, wants and desires.

A brand takes the biggest benefits that the product or service can provide and communicates it in a snappy, simple name/tag - designed to immediately emotionally connect with you.

Walmart - "Save money. Live better." Bam! They've immedaitely initiated a relationship with their target demo. And their customers are participating in that relationship - whether they're aware of it or not; whether they like it... or not.

You did the same thing when you purchased that Logitech keyboard. You recognized the brand name, felt drawn in by the trust their reputation creates and purchased, albeit soley for utilitarian needs, but went with them for subconscious reasons you're simply failing to acknowledge.

Same with Splenda.

You're participating in these relationships because their brand name, reputation and placement (or availability, like in the restaurant) connects with your needs - no matter how fundamental they are.

Yes...

Businesses/brands can take their relationships into a more intimate space - like with email marketing.

But when ANY company's brand, online or off, connects with your needs, wants and/or desires on some level, you've just entered the conversation they started, for you...

...and that my friend is how relationships begin.

Mark

As someone already made reference to the mention of statistics class and the use of phrases such as "strawmen" leads me to believe we have some sort of philosophy major on our hands here.

No offense dude, but unless you have something to share that can offer us a real life example of how this is true FOR YOUR BUSINESS, then how meaningful is this thread...? I mean beyond the fact that you are detached from your own beverages and the hotels that you stay at...we get that at this point.

Prove the truth behind what you are saying with some hard, objective data from your business and maybe some people here will take you seriously. But maybe not, as I don't believe you are right.

Just because Tony Robbins spews warm fuzzy shit doesn't mean everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about when they put emphasis on relationships. If you have some beef with Mr. Robbins, why not take it up with him? I'm sure he cares even more than anyone here.

Its different online bro! you should know that already.

You can still make some money with no relationship if you hate it so much you know.
However I will make MORE money than you with decent a list of people who, know,like and trust me. Same with Amazon, eBay, Facebook---->> Brands= Relationships=Trust= More $$

P.S. You can't compare your "Online eBook/YouTube stuff" to multimillion dollar corporations. These corporations have established their brands,you have even mentioned their brands yourself and that's because you are familiar with them. You grew up watching your mama buying you Pepsi how is that for an endorsement?

Wow! You certainly did a lot today.

I guess it must be a sugar high from that Pepsi you had last night.

There are different types of marketing in which relationship building is one aspect of, so don't try to persuade those of us who use this type of marketing.

Tweek it, modify it, change it up but don't re-invent it.

I have to disagree with the OP. I think you do have a relationship with all those products, and those products brand in a way so you choose their product over another. Whether its the quality, functionality, or features they are creating something for you. Also you may buy something without a relationship but don't think that you will keep buying unless the product maker shows credibility and knowledge. Interesting topic!

This is an interesting topic. I see your point, and I think it all boils down to how you define "relationship."

You don't necessarily love Splenda, coffee, or the restaurant where you ate. It just happened to be the nearest place or the only soda you can get at the moment. Thus, you are saying that you do not have a relationship with them.

I'd like to ask though. Had there been coke and pepsi, which would you choose? If the waiter at the restaurant was extremely annoying, would you still eat there? If your ice tea is mixed with sugar, would you drink it, or would you make another one with Splenda? I think you know where I am getting at.

Building a relationship is important because it is easier to keep old customers than find new ones.

Now let me get a can of Pepsi cause I just so love it.

I disagree with you 1000%.

When it comes to Online Marketing you have to build some form of trust for a person to shell out money. PERIOD!

If your not building trust and adding value your business experience will be very bumpy.

What you are saying does play into effect but not apart from building trust and adding value. But if you build a business solely off of that then you will have a ton of refunds for sure!

this thread is epic fail on many levels.

it's ALL About your relationship and trust with your customers.

If you're selling commodities, like cans of soda, or crappy ebooks nobody wants, then no. If you're serious about building a business, however it's ALL about your relationship with your list.

I have over 2,000 people registered for my weekly Saturday webinars (and do very high sales) because I've built a relationship with them. I'm a top-rated award winning producer in my niche because I have a relationship with my list. I listen, I care, I respond, I build, I train... it's all about the relationship.

Hey Jeff or Frank or Eben or Brendan one of you guys feel free to chime in...

If you don't like what's on the forum, there's a Log Out button at the top right

Good point but your missing something..

In the offline world companies spend millions to build a brand.. And branding = relationship

I like to go to the same restaurants, stores, clubs most of the times. The reason is that i have a good relationship with the employees there..

Cheers,

Gary

Sorry, but it's a really silly post.

How many of you go back to the same doctor over and over again?

Do you get your haircut at the same barber each time?

How many of you go to the same dentist?

How many of you have been using the same mechanic for years and years?

Why? Relationships.

They are just a very small number of examples that prove your theory wrong.

"I used Splenda in my iced tea today. No relationship between Splenda and I."

Actually there is. The sweetness in Splenda releases pleasure hormones in your brain.


"I went to a restaurant for lunch. They didn't build a relationship with me. They just serve damn good food and are conveniently located."

First of all if they did the opposite of building a relationship...treated you like
crap as soon as you walked through the door...it's unlikely you'd go back.

So while you might not see it as relationship building being pleasant and polite
to people is the first step.

Also how often do you go to this restaurant?

A smart restaurant would capture your contact details and send you a thank you note, a gift meal on your birthday, a voucher for free coffee or dessert with time limits all designed to make you a loyal customer because you feel like you're appreciated there.

And to get you to come in more often which can worth a substantial amount in
extra profits for a business.

On top of that they could also make it very easy for you to recommend friends
to the restaurant (for example a free dessert or coffee voucher you can give
to your friends).

So by building a relationship giving you various gifts and showing you appreciation
they're also directly building their business in multiple ways.


"The Pepsi I drank last night? Nope no relationship."

Again pleasure centres in your brain. Also someone should mention that your
diet may not be so great lol.



"The Logitech keyboard I'm typing on that I bought recently? No relationship."

But where did you buy it from? Why do you go to that particular store?

At the very least you don't have people swearing at you and insulting
you when you walk into the store. Basic politeness is relationship building.


"People base their decision on whether to buy or not the products I pitch based on whether the product appeals to them."

Actually a HUGE part of the decision is who is making them the offer and
whether they trust them.

That's why getting a marketer with a list who has taken the time to build some
real trust with his subscribers to offer you product to that list is so powerful.

I can tell you as a copywriter involved in split testing different lists that the
guys who are going out of their way to really look after their lists with quality
content and relationship building are getting many times the response rates
of those who don't build relationships with their subscribers.

People buy from the people they trust and they're very wary of offers from
people they don't know (no relationship) or people they don't trust (bad
relationship).


You certainly can make money without building relationships but in most
cases there's more money to be made by putting in the effort to think
through how building relationships of trust with your subscribers, prospects
and clients can help you to build a better business with more sales,
higher priced sales, more referrals etc etc.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

You have a lot of great responses here.

Let me give you a personal example.
Me and my hubby likes to go abroad time to time. We looking for a nice hotel/apartment , read the reviews, look at the pictures and choose the one we like the most.
Now, where is the catch ?
There is a lot of sites that offer the same apartments. (they get a %, if you use there link).
I sign up on a few of those sites list, and guess who i choose i the and?
The one that gave the most value to there subscribes, the one who build the relation ship, answer all my questions and gave me great information.
And now, when i need to find an apartment, i am not even checking the other sites, i just use the site i trust and used in the past.

You've got to understand that the majority of the advice given in this forum is just a bunch of regurgitated information that many have accepted as fact because it's been said so many times.

One of the best advice ever on Warrior Forum...

If you are good at what you do, people will come to you rather than you go to them.

... and if they believe this load of crap, they will fall into the category you described. None of the brands that you described attempt to sell you their products via an email list, which is a whole lot different than the type of offline vendors you are talking about. Those companies spend millions on building a recognizable and trusted brand (trust, I believe falls into the category of relationship building). And if your local gas station or favorite restaurant is worth it's salt, they do build relationships. They recognize their regular customers, go out of their way to acknowledge them when they visit, often remember their names, their children's names, etc.

[DELETED]

The products you've mentioned are mostly physical consumable items and huge companies like Pepsi spend millions on their advertising and branding every month.

They have been developing a relationship with you every time you see or hear one of their ads and/or buy one of their products.

You don't have millions to spend on branding your company or name in your Internet business. But you do have the opportunity to reach out to prospects, one by one, with an email or a newsletter, or a freebie of value which can build trust in what you are offering.

You're in a relationship with all the service and product owners you spend money on . . . we all are . . . but often we don't recognize the fact that we are spending money on them as a result of their reaching out to us first and sometimes often.

Steve

You are comparing apples to oranges. There are various types of purchases. Everything from buying a pack of gum to buying a home. It is incredibly naive to group them all together. Some buying decisions require little emotion. Others, such as purchasing a home, are much more involved emotionally.

I can tell from your post that you have never been a salesman. You should. Lots of great lessons to be learned there.

JoeMack

You really don't represent 100% of the marketing.
You don't form a relationship with Pepsi or a restaurant.
You DO form habits. What are relationships if not habits, after the initial period?
You get effective response, depend on it being there. If you're used to Pepsi, tomorrow your shop fails to have it, has Coke waiting there, that's enough to "break a relationship".
It's about being present there, all the time, nothing active.

You may pet your dog once a day, but it's there all day long, JUST FOR THAT!

That's the gist of it - be there when your client needs you, doesn't have to be personal.

Spot on!

It's just a shame that a lot of members on the WF are so rooted in their beliefs (almost religiously) they are unable to see past marketing fluff that they have been sold by the "Gurus" before them.

It is pretty plain to see that the OP has a very excellent point here.

As much as there is an element of personal connection that in many cases will help in converting leads to buyers in low-trust markets and niches, such as the Make-Money-Online niche.

The truth is that the vast majority of sensible adults who make decisions on products to buy, from reasonable to high trust markets such as Groceries, Apparels, Electronics, Video Games or even Home Insurance do so mainly on the merits/qualities of the product and the REPUTATION of the seller.

It is the observation of an individual's or company's reputation that many refer to (somewhat incorrectly) as a relationship.

To term one's trust in a product having certain desirable characteristics and serving a particular purpose in the way you envision, as a relationship rather than a reputation is really a poor understanding of language and nothing more sinister.

Not to make this an essay, but when you blast emails to your mailing lists in an effort to build trust, you are in fact building a relationship by virtue of sustained communication. This is especially strong if there is a two-way conversation taking place. However it is unlikely that your list are buying from you due to this relationship. What I suppose is really happening from a psychological standpoint is that you are establishing a reputation as a provider of valuable information that makes a positive difference in their lives.

This is also where the question of ethics rears it head. If this reputation is being established falsely, by means of providing information that on the face of it seems to be beneficial but is actually a well constructed smoke screen, which is actually totally impractical and deceitful then you are of course being unethical.

To end this lengthy reply. The OP has a solid point, try not to believe the marketing fluff that gets thrown around as gospel truth and learn to question the norm. In doing so you can only improve your understanding.

A business establishes and improves it's reputation, products and/or services based upon it's interaction with it's market. Interaction is really the same as relationship.

No interaction = no business.

Dan

I used to think the same way as the OP.

It's not as black and white as he or she is making it out to be though.

Some products do not require it, others do. There are always more then one way to do things too.

Let me preface my comments here by saying I'm one of the new guys and still learning. Two things I get from reading the thread so far are:

1. Hostility breeds hostility.

There is a lot of it in this thread because of the hostile nature of the OP to insult the whole forum for one, and then individual responders. Productive discussions happen when everyone involved can manage to state their points and opinions; controversial ones, without unnecessary antagonism or attacks.

2. I think there are two differences in the way the word "relationship" is being defined here. The terms warm and fuzzy are terms I think of when I think of people I know personally and have feelings for. Friends, family, etc.

I think the relationship building marketers refer to speaks more to familiarity and trust. When I go to a restaurant I go there because I trust them. I know what I'm going to get, and I know the food wlll be good. The restaurant didn't make friends with me or e-mail me regularly with great recipes, etc. But they got me to the point of the first purchase by building familiarity somehow. Could have been ads on tv, word-of-mouth, whatever.

But once I made the first purchase and liked it, the "relationship moved from familiarity that made me purchase to trust that made me go back. That's the relationship as I see it.

Comparing that kind of purchase/relationship with the whole list-building thing, I had an interesting example just yesterday. It was my birthday so I had a big one day birthday sale. I have a pretty decent following on my fan page, and they're active and engaged.

I also have a list that is just approaching 900. In both places I post regular blogs twice a week. On the fan page I post once or twice a day. The list hears from me twice a week on blog day. Yet when I launched this sale, almost all of the sales I made came from the people on my list. Hardly any from the fan page, and I thought I had a pretty good "relationship" with them. Only about 850 or so people on my list saw the sale but a couple thousand saw it on facebook. But the difference is that every single person on my list got there got a free 5 day video vocal training course when they joined. Most people on the fan page haven't had this familiarity and trust with what I do, so the list responded to the tune of a couple hundred bucks in a few hours, while the fan page people "liked" the post and kept going.

So the kind of "relationship building" I think people mean when they talk about it's importance in marketing is trust and familiarity. None of us are going out and buying a soda from a brand new source every time. We buy from the brands we know and trust, and that to me is a form of relationship that the brand has built with me in some way, even if it wasn't by e-mailing me content on a regular basis. But I don't get that confused with the kind of relationship I have with a personal friend.

I feel you're missing something here...

You say everything you mentioned never built some sort of relationship with you and you still bought the products?

Do you think they got them into the market place and in front of you without building any form of relationship with distributors and retailers?

Do you really say you have no relationship with these retailers either and that they dont do their best to serve you with the best quality products, services and value every time you shop there but you still use their store?

Do you think promotions, advertisements and word of mouth about these products have never influenced your decision to use them?

This is all part of the relationship building of which businesses are built on.

If I walk into my usual supermarket and there is a nice big stand advertising a new line of coffee with 75% off, do you not think this is them using their influence over me, as I know they sell items of a certain standard so it must be good, just so they can build a relationship between me and that brand so I will go back for more?

It will be full price next time but they know if I like it more than the usual I will keep coming back, and I then have more choice to choose from.

Do you think the producer of the Coffee wont of been bending over backwards to get it into these stores probably working at a huge loss on the original order?

I may be wrong, your world may be unique but this is how it works in my world and my business.

I believe in relationship marketing,its important to let the prospect get to know you and vice versa. If they like you,they are more eager to listen to what you have to say or what you are promoting.

With our semantics and language, the word "expectation" might be substituted and provide some clarity.

When you expect something, and it happens, it creates a pattern in the mind.

Also, when society expects you to follow the law, it's pretty tough to act outside those boundaries.

When a marketer instills an expectation of them in your mind, and they meet it time and time again, it creates a pattern and a brand.

As for the term "relationship" as it is used in this forum, I have yet to wrap my mind around it.

I think even offline on regular business it is important to build a relationship with your desire customer, even I can get picky with the gas station I go to, if the employee is friendly or gives good support. Is a big different when you go to a X gas station with a cashier who has a bulldog face to a friendly cashier who asks you how you are doing and tells you to have a nice day.

In my main business model (affiliate email marketing) I'm successful because of the trust my subscribers place in me.

If they didn't trust me...

If I let them down...

They would stop opening my emails...

They would unsubscribe...

And I would earn less commissions.

I don't know my subscribers personally, but I go to great lengths to make sure they know me and know they can trust me.

Some of my subscribers know exactly what they want and when I put it in front of them they jump on it.

I accept that it's not entirely because of 'me' being involved in the transaction.

But a lot of the people I write to everyday don't really know what they want.

They come to me 'dazed and confused' and subscribe because I promise I can help them.

They then invest a little trust in me...

They test me out to see if I'm the real deal...

As I deliver on my promises, they trust me a little more...

The relationship of trust I develop with my list means that when I recommend a product they are likely to accept my recommendation.

They try the product...

It delivers what I promise...

They trust me a little more...

The better the relationship of trust, the more they buy from my recommendations...

And they sometimes add their own testimonial to my trustworthiness.

I can't see how taking the relationship out of this equation is going to bring me the same results as I currently achieve.

I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Just because Splenda didn't build a relationship with YOU, doesn't mean they didn't build a relationship with a distributor.

How'd you find out about that Logitech keyboard? I'm sure it isn't some knock off brand you've never heard of is it? Are you unaware of the branding of Pepsi you've been brainwashed with your entire life?

Just because you aren't aware of things, doesn't mean they don't exist.

If you're not focused on your customers and you don't give a crap about them, I could only assume you're a baby boomer, no?

While reading your post, i immediately have only 1 thing in mind.

And i think willie beat me to it since ive not been reading the forums recently.

The difference is you are comparing online stuff with brick and mortar.

Yes terrak made a good point too. Building a relationship works offline too, but online i think you need to do it more, because they dont get the benefit of knowing you personally, so its hard to trust something or someone while buying something.

But when you go to your local grocery store or your gas station, they "can" afford not to build a relationship with you if they dont want to, why?
Because 1. those items you mentioned are mostly daily necessity and you have to get it anyways. 2. trust isnt really the problem because they are a brick and mortar shop, they cant just close and disappear overnight. (i know some can but compared to online its harder)

Thats why your comparison is like apple to orange as my teacher would say.

Of cos a local store would need to build a good relation with you because there are other competitors as well, other brands, other company selling same brands etc etc..
But at least if you are not happy u can find them and go back to them.

Whereas online is a diff matter.

What kind of "relationship" do you have with the vending machine that sells candy to you. Well, sometimes it steals my money. Yet I still buy from it because I am hungry and hope that it will work this time - please yes. Fact is, you do not need a relationship or even a nice price. Vensing machine food is often stale and over price. Like you find out what people want and you give it to em.

Kindle is a good example of how I can sell with no relationship- zero.
Also, look at Ebay - those are not my friends that are buying from em.

Building relationships is important in a business just starting out or a smaller scale business. Your examples are of products from highly established companies that have been around for a while and have already gained the trust of the population.

I agree with you.
In the early days I had lists and built relationships, but then stopped all this and it has not affected my sales since.