Escaping the "Evergreen Niche Trap"?

11 years ago

I see family crests as an evergreen niche. The content you create for it today will remain the same tomorrow.

Was he selling you something, lol.

Maybe his definition of evergreen was different than what it is today?

Today evergreen means content you create once and is relevant for a very long time. Did he mention what he considered evergreen?

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andreas3

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Victor Edson

I see family crests as an evergreen niche. The content you create for it today will remain the same tomorrow.

Was he selling you something, lol.

Maybe his definition of evergreen was different than what it is today?

Today evergreen means content you create once and is relevant for a very long time. Did he mention what he considered evergreen?

My idea of evergreen is niches like weight loss, making money, dating, etc. What the intro to marketing guides call "health, wealth, love."

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hustlinsmoke

11 years ago

I also see family crests as an evergreen niche. weight loss, dating, cosmetic dentistry.

I believe evergreen to be something people always want. I pulled this off the web.........

"Evergreen content is SEO content that is continually relevant and stays "fresh" for readers."

Would that not include family crests and cosmetic denistry.

Do you know the niche you should get into, the Evergreen niche itself. Yes Sell the evergreen niche then you will be the niche guru yourself.

Thanks
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James Clark

11 years ago

The problem with that concept is this. Years ago when we started marketing online there were 30 people selling in those niches. And now there are 30 thousand selling in those niches.

Based on my experience, if you are looking for a niche that is unsaturated, then good luck with that idea. I believe all niches have been discovered, period.

If you want a good marketing idea find out whats not being taught properly and focus on that. I think one of the most critical areas that is not being taught correctly is converting.

So, I would look into high converting offers, free or paid. Also, become an expert in high converting squeeze pages. Every marketer needs a high converting offer, no doubt.

Now, as soon as I post this reply someone will respond that's been done already. One in 10,000 have been successful with the information out there.

Thanks
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hustlinsmoke

11 years ago

Thats why if you read some of my posts. I always suggest to break that down into a sub niche and then break it down farther, Look for those 3,000 searchs per keyword and work from there.

Originally Posted by James Clark

The problem with that concept is this. Years ago when we started marketing online there were 30 people selling in those niches. And now there are 30 thousand selling in those niches.

Based on my experience, if you are looking for a niche that is unsaturated, then good luck with that idea. I believe all niches have been discovered, period.

If you want a good marketing idea find out whats not being taught properly and focus on that. I think one most critical areas that is not being taught correctly is conversations.

So, I would look into high converting offers, free or paid. Also, become an expert in high converting squeeze pages.

Thanks
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James Clark

11 years ago

Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke

Thats why if you read some of my posts. I always suggest to break that down into a sub niche and then break it down farther, Look for those 3,000 searchs per keyword and work from there.

I'm not a big fan of the number of searchers either. My point is this. No one teaches seed searchers. And no one teachers what to do with a seed list.

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hustlinsmoke 11 years ago

Hey theres your niche lol.

Originally Posted by James Clark

I'm not a big fan of the number of searchers either. My point is this. No one teaches seed searchers. And no one teachers what to do with a seed list.
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CyberAlien 11 years ago

Originally Posted by James Clark

I'm not a big fan of the number of searchers either. My point is this. No one teaches seed searchers. And no one teachers what to do with a seed list.

Maybe someone should start teaching
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andreas3

11 years ago

Originally Posted by James Clark

I'm not a big fan of the number of searchers either. My point is this. No one teaches seed searchers. And no one teachers what to do with a seed list.

What are seed searchers/seed lists?

Thanks
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Steve B

11 years ago

Another thought about niche saturation . . .

In every niche, and sub-niche, and sub-sub-niche it seems to me there are maybe 80% of the sellers focusing on basically the same business models and the same types of products. They are at the center of the niche where the competition is the greatest and only the strongest survive.

I am an advocate of going to the edges of the niche where the mainstream sellers never go because there is not enough action and the crowds are not as thick.

At the edges, you find fewer competitors but still the water is deep enough to support your business. These side stream channels often support very unique businesses and products and at times it is easier to offer very unique products/services that have no equal. And with no one else offering what you do, you can set your own price as there are no comparisons with what you offer.

Good luck to all,

Steve

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harrydog

11 years ago

Hi Steve
just read your blog post re the other side of the lake and was wondering if you could give an example (without giving away any of your own markets) of the kind of outer edge market you are talking about.
Cheers
Mark

Thanks
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Steve B

11 years ago

Originally Posted by harrydog

Hi Steve
just read your blog post re the other side of the lake and was wondering if you could give an example (without giving away any of your own markets) of the kind of outer edge market you are talking about.
Cheers
Mark

Hi Mark,

Sure. It seems that one of the most popular "beginner's" methods of starting out in IM is to buy a bunch of PLR material, slap it on a web site, and undertake to sell the ebooks and reports "as is." I don't have statistics but I'm guessing that 80-90% of these kinds of sites try to sell this stuff in the same manner.

Going to the edge of the niche would be to offer the PLR in a unique and original way, not as everyone else is doing. So here's an example:

You purchase a PLR course entitled "100 Best Ways to Drive Traffic to a Small Business Web Site." You find this same e-course being sold all over the Internet "as is" straight from your purchased download.

Why not laser target a group of solo business owners hungry to get traffic to their sites in the local carpet cleaning niche? Or target real estate agents specializing in vacation home sales? Or target DUI lawyers?

But don't stop there. Spend some time (or pay a good writer) to customize your PLR course to match your chosen niche. The more specific you get, the better your course will become. You will have a unique product tailored exactly (laser targeted) to a sub-sub-niche.

While the vast majority of PLR sellers will all be hawking the same thing, you will be at a place "on the edge" where you can target your audience and have little to no competition.

Yes, it's a little more work to carve out a niche where you have to be creative and do some extra work . . . but the payoff will be there in many ways!

And by the way, once you modify your course to be specific to one niche, it becomes an easy matter of then changing it again and again for other niches too, as the core principles of what you're teaching will be pretty universal across many niches!

Good luck to you,

Steve

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James Clark

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve B

Hi Mark,

Sure. It seems that one of the most popular "beginner's" methods of starting out in IM is to buy a bunch of PLR material, slap it on a web site, and undertake to sell the ebooks and reports "as is." I don't have statistics but I'm guessing that 80-90% of these kinds of sites try to sell this stuff in the same manner.

Going to the edge of the niche would be to offer the PLR in a unique and original way, not as everyone else is doing. So here's an example:

You purchase a PLR course entitled "100 Best Ways to Drive Traffic to a Small Business Web Site." You find this same e-course being sold all over the Internet "as is" straight from your purchased download.

Why not laser target a group of solo business owners hungry to get traffic to their sites in the local carpet cleaning niche? Or target real estate agents specializing in vacation home sales? Or target DUI lawyers?

But don't stop there. Spend some time (or pay a good writer) to customize your PLR course to match your chosen niche. The more specific you get, the better your course will become. You will have a unique product tailored exactly (laser targeted) to a sub-sub-niche.

While the vast majority of PLR sellers will all be hawking the same thing, you will be at a place "on the edge" where you can target your audience and have little to no competition.

Yes, it's a little more work to carve out a niche where you have to be creative and do some extra work . . . but the payoff will be there in many ways!

And by the way, once you modify your course to be specific to one niche, it becomes an easy matter of then changing it again and again for other niches too, as the core principles of what you're teaching will be pretty universal across many niches!

Good luck to you,

Steve

Hey Steve,

I never thought about outsourcing PLR. In the past, have been re-writing them myself. I must be dumb or something.(LOL) I know what it is. The other day I decided to give up coffee. But I had a cup this morning!

Thanks man for a good idea. It will save tons of time. You are the best! Well one of the best.(ha ha)

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hustlinsmoke

11 years ago

Well said, I have niches with 200 searches a month lol. I make good money on them too.

Originally Posted by Steve B

Another thought about niche saturation . . .

In every niche, and sub-niche, and sub-sub-niche it seems to me there are maybe 80% of the sellers focusing on basically the same business models and the same types of products. They are at the center of the niche where the competition is the greatest and only the strongest survive.

I am an advocate of going to the edges of the niche where the mainstream sellers never go because there is not enough action and the crowds are not as thick.

At the edges, you find fewer competitors but still the water is deep enough to support your business. These side stream channels often support very unique businesses and products and at times it is easier to offer very unique products/services that have no equal. And with no one else offering what you do, you can set your own price as there are no comparisons with what you offer.

Good luck to all,

Steve

Thanks

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James Clark

11 years ago

Originally Posted by andreas3

What are seed searchers/seed lists?

What if you are a beginner in Internet Marketing and you get 5 subscribers to your list. That would be a "seed list". You must know what to do with the subscribers.

Also, Aweber will not allow you to split test your list until you get 120 subscribers, but you can check it out yourself.

Also, when you are new to a niche and you want to build a list fast so you employ a group of keywords and you settle for a few. So, now you set-up a PPC campaign for a $100 to $300 dollars and test the keywords.

I started with $300.

After you get about a 150 subscribers if you have deep pockets you can continue the PPC campaign and try to break even on the back-end but that is another discussion.

All in all, you have to know what to do with the 150 subscribers to grow your business. That would be what we call "seed searchers".

Finally, in the offline world no one starts a business without seed capital. I have found this to be true. If you want to create a product then ask your subscribers. However, this is a skill.

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

11 years ago

Originally Posted by andreas3

My idea of evergreen is niches like weight loss, making money, dating, etc. What the intro to marketing guides call "health, wealth, love."

You need to redefine the word "niche", my friend. What you named are huge markets with hundreds of niches and subniches and microniches.

Originally Posted by harrydog

Hi Steve
just read your blog post re the other side of the lake and was wondering if you could give an example (without giving away any of your own markets) of the kind of outer edge market you are talking about.
Cheers
Mark

Here's one for you, gratis.

Everyone (it seems) in the dating/seduction market wants to target the hustlers, males in the twenties.

There is a pretty deep pool of older guys who have been out of circulation for years, and now, through divorce, death of a spouse or some other reason are looking to find a woman again. Almost nobody targets them, yet many of them have deeper pockets than the young guys.

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andreas3

11 years ago

Thanks for the excellent words of advice, everyone.

Originally Posted by James Clark

What if you are a beginner in Internet Marketing and you get 5 subscribers to your list. That would be a "seed list". You must know what to do with the subscribers.
[...]

All in all, you have to know what to do with the 150 subscribers to grow your business. That would be what we call "seed searchers".

So... what's our IM beginner to do with a list of 5-150 people, besides buying solo ads to grow it further?

I suppose with some decent email copywriting you could make enough on affiliate commissions to buy more ads, grow the list, make more money, buy more ads, etc.

Thanks
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James Clark

11 years ago

Originally Posted by andreas3

Thanks for the excellent words of advice, everyone.

So... what's our IM beginner to do with a list of 5-150 people, besides buying solo ads to grow it further?

I suppose with some decent email copywriting you could make enough on affiliate commissions to buy more ads, grow the list, make more money, buy more ads, etc.

Remember, the seed list is to get you started. Once you have a few subscribers you must learn to talk to them in your own voice, not mine. I don't consider affiliate marketing part of my information business.

Information Business is giving away information, selling knowledge, and selling expertize on the back-end.(coaching)

However, there is plenty of free information on the internet about email campaigns. But now you know what to look for. But don't copy anyone else because it won't work. I would be careful with solo ads, its not as simple as it sounds.

Go to Google and type in "how many types of emails"

I hope that helps you.

Thanks

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Rod Cortez

11 years ago

There is a pretty deep pool of older guys who have been out of circulation for years, and now, through divorce, death of a spouse or some other reason are looking to find a woman again. Almost nobody targets them, yet many of them have deeper pockets than the young guys.

The seduction / pua market is definitely a very uber-competitive niche. In 2012 alone there was an average of 6 seduction / pua products put out each day! Most of them are out of the marketing within 90 days because they don't know how to navigate and/or reach their audience. And you're right, there are plenty of other niches and micro-niches under the "dating" market that are very under-served.

Smart match-makers DO target this demographic, at least they do where I live, and they are cleaning up. But almost none of them have their own infoproducts, which would be a very nice extra income stream.

Some other smaller segments are also seeing a surge in growth this past year:

Text Game (how to text women once you've got their cell #)
The Multi-Orgasmic Male (yes, men can have multi's...takes a lot of training though)
Dating Again After Divorce (An very specialized micro-niche that's underserved)
Picking Up & Meeting Women Using Nothing But Social Media Sites (Facebook, Yelp, Twitter, Urbanspoon, GoGoBot, Meetup, etc.).

Personally, I like evergreen markets and serving the specialized niches they have, but these aren't the only ones to get into. There's a Warrior here making a very nice living selling medical equipment and real estate all via the internet. Another Warrior sells recipe books and home decorating videos.

You're only limited by your imagination.

RoD

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WillR

11 years ago

My definition of evergreen is something that's not just a fad and will stand the test of time. We are all going to have teeth for a very long time so I would say dentistry falls into that category for me.

I don't think choosing evergreen niches is wrong. It's the actual niche you choose that can make it or break it for you.

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d3communications

11 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

My definition of evergreen is something that's not just a fad and will stand the test of time. We are all going to have teeth for a very long time so I would say dentistry falls into that category for me.

I don't think choosing evergreen niches is wrong. It's the actual niche you choose that can make it or break it for you.

I like this definition. Another one: evergreen is where there will always be new customers coming into the market in the future.

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Istvan Horvath 11 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

We are all going to have teeth for a very long time so...

My denturist client hopes you are wrong :p
(about the timeframe)
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andreas3

11 years ago

Hah, yes, I know how to write emails to lists.

What I meant is, what makes working with "seed lists" different from every other kind?

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James Clark

11 years ago

Originally Posted by andreas3

Hah, yes, I know how to write emails to lists.

What I meant is, what makes working with "seed lists" different from every other kind?

Well can only speak of my experience, I believe that is the fastest way for me. But there are other ways.

I'm sure you know how to write emails then you shouldn't have a problem. However, I have enough experience to write about what I have been through in building my business. Not once did I think about "Evergreen Niche Trap"

Example: I know this niche has been beat down in examples but for this we will do it one time... lets' say you were in the dog training niche.

And you ran PPC ad in Google.

A three line ad. Everyone including my Mother would click on that ad. Note: you are looking for people with a problem dog.(a dog pissing on the couch rather than pissing in the grass)

You would get people who are considering buying a dog, people who their dog die last year, all kinds of people. Now what I would do is set-up my email campaign to zero in on the people who are having a problem with their dog and market to them.

You what to market to people with a problem don't you agree?

If you know how to do that then I will see you at the top.

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andreas3

11 years ago

Originally Posted by James Clark

Well can only speak of my experience, I believe that is the fastest way for me. But there are other ways.

I'm sure you know how to write emails then you shouldn't have a problem. However, I have enough experience to write about what I have been through in building my business. Not once did I think about "Evergreen Niche Trap"

Example: I know this niche has been beat down in examples but for this we will do it one time... lets' say you were in the dog training niche.

And you ran PPC ad in Google.

A three line ad. Everyone including my Mother would click on that ad. Note: you are looking for people with a problem dog.(a dog pissing on the couch rather than pissing in the grass)

You would get people who are considering buying a dog, people who their dog die last year, all kinds of people. Now what I would do is set-up my email campaign to zero in on the people who are having a problem with their dog and market to them.

You what to market to people with a problem don't you agree?

If you know how to do that then I will see you at the top.

James: Sure, that's good and solid advice... but it applies just as much to every list in existence, more or less. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like something specific to "seed lists."

I was wondering if you had any experiences or wisdom that are particularly valuable for working with "seed lists."

Thanks
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James Clark

11 years ago

Originally Posted by andreas3

James: Sure, that's good and solid advice... but it applies just as much to every list in existence, more or less. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like something specific to "seed lists."

I was wondering if you had any experiences or wisdom that are particularly valuable for working with "seed lists."

Sure. What you need to find out is what traffic to focus on. If you start out with PPC then you know that traffic convert to the squeeze page and you should have an OTO behind the squeeze page.

You are going to be blown away by the next answer. The seed keywords don't mean shit. So, now you have a few subscribers on your list. The smart thing to do is ask them what words did they type into Google to find you.

Set-up a word document with the question and the replies if any. You will probably get 1 or 2 to start with. But keep talking to the list. No one has time to read long emails. The first question is a decoy. And it goes like this. If you wanted me to create a product what would it be, and would you buy it.

Most of them would say yes to that question just to get rid of you. (remember this is a decoy)

The second question is the meat under the decoy and you word it just like this "what is your biggest challenge in your business right now"? Instantly, they will answer the second question without thinking. That is the product they will buy.

If someone tells me what their challenge is I'm going to assume no one has met the need. So, you get busy. I don't care how you delivery it, PDF report, mp3, video etc. Whatever works you.

Now the traffic part. You know the PPC traffic converts but PPC eats at your pocket. Based on my experience, the marketers that don't have to worry about traffic are the ones who are experts with one kind of traffic.

So, pick a traffic source and become an expert...personally, I focus on blog post traffic because I know what works, but I have friends who do Article Marketing etc.

What ever it is you have do it every day. If you have a list already then you can start right away.

I hope that answer question.

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andreas3

11 years ago

Originally Posted by James Clark

Sure. What you need to find out is what traffic to focus on. If you start out with PPC then you know that traffic convert to the squeeze page and you should have an OTO behind the squeeze page.

You are going to be blown away by the next answer. The seed keywords don't mean shit. So, now you have a few subscribers on your list. The smart thing to do is ask them what words did they type into Google to find you.

Set-up a word document with the question and the replies if any. You will probably get 1 or 2 to start with. But keep talking to the list. No one has time to read long emails. The first question is a decoy. And it goes like this. If you wanted me to create a product what would it be, and would you buy it.

Most of them would say yes to that question just to get rid of you. (remember this is a decoy)

The second question is the meat under the decoy and you word it just like this "what is your biggest challenge in your business right now"? Instantly, they will answer the second question without thinking. That is the product they will buy.

If someone tells me what their challenge is I'm going to assume no one has met the need. So, you get busy. I don't care how you delivery it, PDF report, mp3, video etc. Whatever works you.

That's really good advice, thanks! Not just do you walk away with really solid ground on which to build your product... but you also build an equally solid relationship with your list. Now they know you're trying really hard to give them exactly what they need.

Thanks

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Alex Barboza

11 years ago

Evergreen niches give you a higher chance to make money. I think that the "trap" may be in desperation niches where your customer get a solution for their problem and then stop being your customer. I'd say hobby niches are better for repeated customers, but that is a discussion for another thread, I guess.

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aarthielumalai

11 years ago

Originally Posted by andreas3

I was reading an old "Gary Halbert Letter" when I realized something... one of the top old-school marketers of all time, and he recommended against most "evergreen" niches. Make money at home? He called those dangerous. Instead, his businesses were things like family crests or selling cosmetic dentistry.

Who here works outside the "evergreen" niches... and how do you find your products/ideas?

I don't think he was against evergreen niches. He might have been against niches that have a lot of competition. Well, cosmetic dentistry is an evergreen niche isn't it (or am I wrong)? I mean, the market might change (so does every other "evergreen market") but the concept is going to be there for a long time isn't it?

I'd prefer to go for evergreen niches myself. I don't want to spend countless hours creating websites and content for a niche to later find out that the niche is no longer relevant and people have no interest in it anymore.

Thanks
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andreas3

11 years ago

Originally Posted by aarthielumalai

I don't think he was against evergreen niches. He might have been against niches that have a lot of competition. Well, cosmetic dentistry is an evergreen niche isn't it (or am I wrong)? I mean, the market might change (so does every other "evergreen market") but the concept is going to be there for a long time isn't it?

I'd prefer to go for evergreen niches myself. I don't want to spend countless hours creating websites and content for a niche to later find out that the niche is no longer relevant and people have no interest in it anymore.

Sure, in a sense. He was also a big fan of telling people to go promote e.g dirt cheap used cars from government auctions.

But he did often go well outside "evergreen" -- his fraud conviction was for bicentennial plates, an offer that was only going to sell around 1976!

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Jason Kanigan

11 years ago

Interesting...my niche is "evergreen", and I've been serving people for two years now with IM products. So much so that I'm closing my WSOs and concentrating on 3-month coaching programs.

Halbert was a great copywriter and maybe what he was getting at was not getting snowed under by competition.

Thanks
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andreas3

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

Interesting...my niche is "evergreen", and I've been serving people for two years now with IM products. So much so that I'm closing my WSOs and concentrating on 3-month coaching programs.

Halbert was a great copywriter and maybe what he was getting at was not getting snowed under by competition.

Congratulations! Why the change? I would assume you could make money with less time invested by selling products than you can with services like coaching... but then again I've never done a larger product myself.

And you're probably right about competition. I looked it up again, and his advice on somewhat competitive markets was to buy all the competition's products, summarize the key points, add a few new points, and release a product that was better than the rest.

Not something you can do easily in the diet/dating/IM business, that's for sure!

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NicheService

11 years ago

"how do you find your products/ideas?" In any niche, "evergreen" or otherwise, find your products/ideas by simply "listening" to what that particular niche market wants and needs. Join their online/offline groups, forums, networks. And you can even ask them with the use of polls and surveys.

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giuseppepuma

11 years ago

yeah, evergreen more like, health, fitness, wealth, dating, cosmetic dentistry.

really theres alot , but niched into a niched then subniche is awesome small group of audience

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Escaping the "Evergreen Niche Trap"?

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