Warrior Payments

10 years ago

I think some of the other marketplaces are going to have to lower their prices or they risk losing a lot of business. When I eventually get around to creating my own products, Warrior Payments will be a serious contender.

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JensSteyaert

10 years ago

It does have lower fees, that's good but it's still a basic version of warriorplus, Jvzoo etc...

It'll take some time and much improvement feature wise but it'll take off i'm sure about that.

Still a great job to add this new platform!

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Steve B

10 years ago

Originally Posted by aire

What do you guys think of this new tool?

Don't you think it's a little early to be asking this question?

I would hope you would form an opinion only after you had actually tried it out.

Steve

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XponentSYS 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve B

Don't you think it's a little early to be asking this question?

I would hope you would form an opinion only after you had actually tried it out.

Steve

I use Wplus for my WSOs but I've got other products that ARENT WSOs and I'm going to try out Warrior Payments with 1 or 2 of those.
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- Alaister 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by XponentSYS
  
  I use Wplus for my WSOs but I've got other products that ARENT WSOs and I'm going to try out Warrior Payments with 1 or 2 of those.
  
  Let us know your feedback once you've used Warrior Payments
  
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MarketingBees 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve B

Don't you think it's a little early to be asking this question?

I would hope you would form an opinion only after you had actually tried it out.

Steve

I'm not sure you have to actually put it into practice to see that it lacks an array of features that many find essential?
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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Hello everyone

We're pretty excited about the launch and think that this will certainly change the industry.

Thanks for the feedback so far. We have a large team here that will be iterating quickly on the product and improving the feature set based upon your feedback.

Regards
Matt

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XponentSYS

10 years ago

Originally Posted by mattbarrie

Hello everyone

We're pretty excited about the launch and think that this will certainly change the industry.

Thanks for the feedback so far. We have a large team here that will be iterating quickly on the product and improving the feature set based upon your feedback.

Regards
Matt

For the love of god. PLEASR build in support for re-occurring subscription payments so I can use affiliates to promote my continuity based memberships on the forum using affiliates. (I want to offer a split of the monthly residual).

This is a feature lots of us want but has been in "coming soon" limbo for waaaaaaay too long with the other big players here.

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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by XponentSYS

For the love of god. PLEASR build in support for re-occurring subscription payments so I can use affiliates to promote my continuity based memberships on the forum using affiliates. (I want to offer a split of the monthly residual).

This is a feature lots of us want but has been in "coming soon" limbo for waaaaaaay too long with the other big players here.

Subscription payments is at the top of our list, we'll be releasing that shortly.

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XponentSYS 10 years ago

Originally Posted by mattbarrie

Subscription payments is at the top of our list, we'll be releasing that shortly.

If you do that, you've got me..... and many others I'm sure.
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Rus Sells 10 years ago

And integration with membership sites as well? HUURRYYYY!

Originally Posted by mattbarrie

Subscription payments is at the top of our list, we'll be releasing that shortly.
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- Alaister 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Rus Sells
  
  And integration with membership sites as well? HUURRYYYY!
  
  Yeh this is something we'll be looking to add also.
  
  Thanks
  
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GarrieWilson

10 years ago

Originally Posted by XponentSYS

For the love of god. PLEASR build in support for re-occurring subscription payments so I can use affiliates to promote my continuity based memberships on the forum using affiliates. (I want to offer a split of the monthly residual).

This is a feature lots of us want but has been in "coming soon" limbo for waaaaaaay too long with the other big players here.

Pretty sure JV Zoo added it.

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Crosseyed

10 years ago

Originally Posted by XponentSYS

For the love of god. PLEASR build in support for re-occurring subscription payments so I can use affiliates to promote my continuity based memberships on the forum using affiliates. (I want to offer a split of the monthly residual).

This is a feature lots of us want but has been in "coming soon" limbo for waaaaaaay too long with the other big players here.

I agree 100% this is a must for me to offer my products also.

Thanks
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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Then how can you create a WSO w/out using Warrior Payments? All the create WSO links take you there.

-g

Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant

Once WP is up and fully working with the features I need, I will love the low 2% price. Just can't use it as it sits now.

How do you bypass warrior payments and use another method when creating a new WSO? I don't see a way to do that.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

You can create a WSO directly from this link

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Hi Ron - What features would get you using Warrior Payments?

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Tom B

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

You can create a WSO directly from this link

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Hi Ron - What features would get you using Warrior Payments?

Alaister, for me, I would need to be able to post the sales information to my own script as well as refund data.

I sell software... the activation and deactivation of my programs are based on sales records. Not only that, but my members area unlocks downloads depending on what the person purchased.

Thomas

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Rob Whisonant

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

You can create a WSO directly from this link

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Hi Ron - What features would get you using Warrior Payments?

Thanks for the link. What I need is the following.

1. Recurring payments
2. Sale info, refunds and cancellations being able to be posted back to a script on my site. Must pass the purchasers name, email address and product ID at a minimum.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

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James Campbell

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

You can create a WSO directly from this link

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Hi Ron - What features would get you using Warrior Payments?

And where exactly does a user find that link from the main WSO section? There is a giant red button to create a new offer/thread, but it doesn't go to the link you've posted here.

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CyberAlien

10 years ago

Let's see how quick the questions in the WAMA thread get answered

Thanks

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

I may have missed it, but does this allow you to refuse affiliates, or to put some on delayed payments?

If not, it's going to be a magnet for the Chinese CC scammers and a source of huge chargebacks for sellers.

Paul

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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

Don't allow the star rating until after a buyer actually has time to review the product. Maybe throttle the feedback option for 3-7 days after purchase.

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jross07

10 years ago

I think it'll be pretty good for the consumers. Especially the feedback option

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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

The instant affiliate payments are going to be a nightmare If the seller gets blasted with refunds.

Thanks

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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

How's this going to impact Warrior Forum signature spam?

Your advertising affiliates can post their affiliate links anyplace.

[source]

Promote your affiliate link everywhere you can

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VideosByIvy

10 years ago

so its like clickbank?

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writeaway

10 years ago

I've already asked about this a WEEK after Freelancer took over WF. To be honest, you could see it a mile away. It is the next logical progression for WF. I see it growing into an INTEGRATED media company. Of course, this means a lot of the old ways have to disappear or change with the times. I'm sure people will adapt.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Suggestion… Allow payment to Payoneer accounts or direct to checking accounts, presumably with some delay and reserve, and an additional fee. This adds flexibility for sellers, and may solve some problems for folks who don’t have or want to use Paypal.

I love the reviews by paying customers aspect. That is something we could never do before, because the forum wasn’t part of the transaction. That is a big draw to this system, as it discourages the trolls.

Paul

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kindsvater

10 years ago

Unless the troll is buying, nuking the product in a review, and then refunding.

(Notice downloading and actually reading the product is not in the mix.)

I went in to check it out and had some problems. Needed to turn off my ad blocker for a product to go through. Then, looking at the WSO section I was surprised to see banner ads across the WSO section. When did that start?

---

Going back and editing a product after it has been submitted, I see the autoresponder selection did not stick and needs to be redone.

Related - for a second product when want to connect AWeber, I have to log into AWeber again. A bit of a pain.

---

As a seller, really need a link to send affiliates to so they can sign up and get commissions. Didn't see that anywhere. Maybe I missed it.

---

Affiliate commissions can go down to 1%. But Warrior Forum affiliate commissions have a minimum of 50%.

.

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writeaway 10 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Unless the troll is buying, nuking the product in a review, and then refunding.

(Notice downloading and actually reading the product is not in the mix.)

.

True. Plus, leakage to the countless WSO blackhat sites out there.

Maybe there should be a free add-on service offered by Freelancer to scour the web for blackhat copies of digital copies of items in the WP marketplace.

Everyone wins this way: the affiliates, the seller, and the integrity of the marketplace
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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Unless the troll is buying, nuking the product in a review, and then refunding.

(Notice downloading and actually reading the product is not in the mix.)

I went in to check it out and had some problems. Needed to turn off my ad blocker for a product to go through. Then, looking at the WSO section I was surprised to see banner ads across the WSO section. When did that start?

---

Going back and editing a product after it has been submitted, I see the autoresponder selection did not stick and needs to be redone.

Related - for a second product when want to connect AWeber, I have to log into AWeber again. A bit of a pain.

---

As a seller, really need a link to send affiliates to so they can sign up and get commissions. Didn't see that anywhere. Maybe I missed it.

---

Affiliate commissions can go down to 1%. But Warrior Forum affiliate commissions have a minimum of 50%.

.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll forward to the product team.

Thanks

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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Suggestion... Allow payment to Payoneer accounts or direct to checking accounts, presumably with some delay and reserve, and an additional fee. This adds flexibility for sellers, and may solve some problems for folks who don't have or want to use Paypal.

I love the reviews by paying customers aspect. That is something we could never do before, because the forum wasn't part of the transaction. That is a big draw to this system, as it discourages the trolls.

Paul

We already have Payoneer setup for Freelancer.com so that is certainly something we can look at.

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osamaye360

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Suggestion... Allow payment to Payoneer accounts or direct to checking accounts, presumably with some delay and reserve, and an additional fee. This adds flexibility for sellers, and may solve some problems for folks who don't have or want to use Paypal.

I love the reviews by paying customers aspect. That is something we could never do before, because the forum wasn't part of the transaction. That is a big draw to this system, as it discourages the trolls.

Paul

Thanks Paul, i really go with your suggestion. I'm yet to launch a paid wso because my paypal account is not eligible to receive payments yet.

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GlenH

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Suggestion... Allow payment to Payoneer accounts or direct to checking accounts, presumably with some delay and reserve, and an additional fee. This adds flexibility for sellers, and may solve some problems for folks who don't have or want to use Paypal.

Paul

I think that is a great idea to allow direct deposit into bank accounts

As a vendor of multiple products, I have 4 Clickbank accounts, and all my commissions /payment are direct deposited into my Australian bank account.

No checks, which can take 4 to 6 weeks to clear.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by GlenH

I think that is a great idea to allow direct deposit into bank accounts

As a vendor of multiple products, I have 4 Clickbank accounts, and all my commissions /payment are direct deposited into my Australian bank account.

No checks, which can take 4 to 6 weeks to clear.

An option to receive payments directly to a bank account, would be a game changer IMO. If they can do something like that, it would be awesome.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Alex,

An option to receive payments directly to a bank account, would be a game changer IMO.

No question.

It would settle a lot of problems for people who can't/don't want to use Paypal, and make things a LOT easier for a lot of people.

Set it up through Payoneer, and things get cool. The reps from there who are members (Nissim comes to mind) would likely be thrilled to have the extra business.

Make things easier for our Indian members. A lot of these folks are incredibly loyal and have been for many years. Make an effort for them, and they will respond in kind.

Ignoring them would be a VERY bad idea.

Paul
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XponentSYS 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

An option to receive payments directly to a bank account, would be a game changer IMO. If they can do something like that, it would be awesome.

That'd be done 1 of 2 ways.....

1. They'd have to process your payments through THEIR merchant account and TGEN they could ACH the money to your bank. This is essentially how PayPal works. They'd basically become a payment PROCESSOR like PayPal.

Or.....

2. They could add the option to connect your Warrior Payment account to YOUR OWN merchant account (using Authorize.net for example).

Number 1 could be quite an undertaking and may be a game they're not looking to get into but number 2 could be much easier done.
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writeaway

10 years ago

It should have a CC scrub database to block scammers. Also, some sort of IDENTITY VERIFICATION before people get paid affiliate commissions.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Brian,

That’s a problem with the “instant review” aspect. Still, it would help even with that as a potential problem. Most of the real trolls in the WSO section never buy.

Writeaway,

I suspect they’ll assume, and perhaps rightly, that Paypal has already done ID verification. A separate check would probably be nice, but I’m not sure it’s practical.

Paul

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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Brian,

That's a problem with the "instant review" aspect. Still, it would help even with that as a potential problem. Most of the real trolls in the WSO section never buy.

Writeaway,

I suspect they'll assume, and perhaps rightly, that Paypal has already done ID verification. A separate check would probably be nice, but I'm not sure it's practical.

Paul

Hi Paul

Thanks for the feedback. We actually do have a huge team already for Freelancer that does ID checking and also quite a sophisticated anti-fraud team (and technology). Based on feedback from the community we will look to see where this may be appropriate to introduce for Warrior Payments.

One of the goals here is to raise the integrity of the marketplace. We have learnt at Freelancer.com how to ensure that feedback is valid by ensuring that jobs need to be completed and paid in full in order for feedback to be left, and that feedback over time builds up into strong online reputation for users. We'll be working on ensuring that feedback cannot be gamed.

Regards
Matt

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Matt,

We'll be working on ensuring that feedback cannot be gamed.

THAT is probably the biggest news in the whole announcement, from my perspective.

Do that and get the OTO/upsell features in place, and you'll pull a lot of sellers from the other platforms. Especially if you can set up a way for reviews from paying customers to be identified as such in the WSO threads.

Maybe a "Post to thread" option in the review form? Show the time and date of purchase and the same for the review...

Paul

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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Matt,THAT is probably the biggest news in the whole announcement, from my perspective.

Do that and get the OTO/upsell features in place, and you'll pull a lot of sellers from the other platforms. Especially if you can set up a way for reviews from paying customers to be identified as such in the WSO threads.

Maybe a "Post to thread" option in the review form? Show the time and date of purchase and the same for the review...

Paul

Some great suggestions there.

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Alaister 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Maybe a "Post to thread" option in the review form? Show the time and date of purchase and the same for the review...
Paul

This is a good idea and I can see it working well.
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flyingdutch 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Maybe a "Post to thread" option in the review form? Show the time and date of purchase and the same for the review...

Paul

Amazon has put in place all kinds of verifications: verified customer, verified member, verified review, vine reviewer, BUT..... everybody agrees that the number of fake reviews is still HUGE. So if Amazon hasn't been able to tackle the problem, I would be very interested to know how WP is going to solve it. For example, how would you tackle a review circle?
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flyingdutch

10 years ago

Originally Posted by mattbarrie

Hi Paul

We'll be working on ensuring that feedback cannot be gamed.

Matt

I, and a lot of companies that use review systems (Amazon, Ebay, tripadvisor) would be VERY interested how you're going to tackle that one. Because as soon as you talk about reviews/evaluations , you talk about fraudulent usage and people that will try to game the system. As I pointed out in one of my books, fake reviews and everything that goes with it (fake accounts, buying/selling reviews/review circles etc.etc.) are a BIG problem. Simply because they are worth money. And as soon as there is money to be earned, people will invent ways to trick the rules. Let's see how this works out on WP, but I'm a bit skeptical.....

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WillR

10 years ago

Originally Posted by flyingdutch

I, and a lot of companies that use review systems (Amazon, Ebay, tripadvisor) would be VERY interested how you're going to tackle that one. Because as soon as you talk about reviews/evaluations , you talk about fraudulent usage and people that will try to game the system. As I pointed out in one of my books, fake reviews and everything that goes with it (fake accounts, buying/selling reviews/review circles etc.etc.) are a BIG problem. Simply because they are worth money. And as soon as there is money to be earned, people will invent ways to trick the rules. Let's see how this works out on WP, but I'm a bit skeptical.....

Definitely agree about reviews. All that will happen is a black market will be created where people will pay others to buy their product and leave reviews or bonuses will be given to people who leave good reviews. Way too hard to stop that from happening. Besides, I don't think the reviews thing is a big deal really. Good products flourish and bad products don't. It's fairly easy to pick the wheat from the chaff these days.

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Brent Tracey

10 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

Definitely agree about reviews. All that will happen is a black market will be created where people will pay others to buy their product and leave reviews or bonuses will be given to people who leave good reviews. Way too hard to stop that from happening. Besides, I don't think the reviews thing is a big deal really. Good products flourish and bad products don't. It's fairly easy to pick the wheat from the chaff these days.

I think so too. The good products will always be recognisable. It's almost guaranteed that there is undeniable proof and signs, when the product is good.

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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

I don't see how they can stop the reviews from being fake, the seller would only lose 2%.

I'm not trying to be negative, just saying scammers will try to figure out a way to BS the system in order to get sales.

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Highway55

10 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I don't see how they can stop the reviews from being fake, the seller would only lose 2%.

I'm not trying to be negative, just saying scammers will try to figure out a way to BS the system in order to get sales.

Weird. I hadn't thought of this angle, but it holds some truth.

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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Highway55

Weird. I hadn't thought of this angle, but it holds some truth.

From our experience at freelancer.com (where our commissions are as low as 3%), it's fairly hard for someone to pay themselves and fake feedback and actually make it look legitimate. We'll be detecting this and anyone who does this will be kicked off the platform. The reputation will not just be on products, the sellers themselves will be building up reputation and feedback over time so that it will be easy to tell the reputable sellers from the newbies.

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GarrieWilson

10 years ago

Originally Posted by mattbarrie

From our experience at freelancer.com (where our commissions are as low as 3%), it's fairly hard for someone to pay themselves and fake feedback and actually make it look legitimate. We'll be detecting this and anyone who does this will be kicked off the platform. The reputation will not just be on products, the sellers themselves will be building up reputation and feedback over time so that it will be easy to tell the reputable sellers from the newbies.

Not really.

I have three PayPal accounts and numerous credit cards. Plus my cronies, I mean friends could order from me. Then pay me later or I order from them.

People WILL do it but it will be better than nothing.

-g

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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Not really.

I have three PayPal accounts and numerous credit cards. Plus my cronies, I mean friends could order from me. Then pay me later or I order from them.

People WILL do it but it will be better than nothing.

-g

Yes but we are provided all the data at time of purchase for those accounts and cards you have and we will immediately see that you are buying from yourself. If we detect that we will close their WF account permanently.

Secondly sellers will build up feedback/reputation in addition to the offers themselves building up reputation. Good sellers won't want to burn their accounts.

Also our antifraud team has long experience detecting fraud rings.

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Ghoster

10 years ago

Originally Posted by mattbarrie

Yes but we are provided all the data at time of purchase for those accounts and cards you have and we will immediately see that you are buying from yourself. If we detect that we will close their WF account permanently.

Secondly sellers will build up feedback/reputation in addition to the offers themselves building up reputation. Good sellers won't want to burn their accounts.

Also our antifraud team has long experience detecting fraud rings.

His point is that all it takes is a good VPN and a credit card in someone else's name. Not trying to be negative, but there is no business in the industry that is 100% insulated against fraud.

I like that you have an aggressive stance about this, but I would be leery about insinuating that this kind of thing won't happen.

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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Ghoster

His point is that all it takes is a good VPN and a credit card in someone else's name. Not trying to be negative, but there is no business in the industry that is 100% insulated against fraud.

I like that you have an aggressive stance about this, but I would be leery about insinuating that this kind of thing won't happen.

It's impossible to stop fraud 100% but the flipside is it's hard how someone to commit fraud at scale without being pretty obvious. Nevertheless we have a team on this and we're committed to improving the forum on all angles including improving the quality and volume of both the buyers and sellers.

Thanks

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writeaway

10 years ago

It says you can sell services but I can only see digital products in the marketplace. Anyone have a link to the service section?

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kindsvater

10 years ago

Created a buy button for an existing product on my site, included an affiliate option (1% LOL). The product is not showing up in the affiliate marketing place affiliates to sign up. Can affiliates only sign up to promote WSOs and not products on other sites?

---

I remember when JVZoo 1st launched. There were a couple products and then a day later hundreds. A lot of crap as everyone was throwing up their ebooks, PLR, etc. There's going to be a flood listed in the marketplace especially due to buy buttons and affiliate promotions offsite being listed - for anything.

Not sure what can be done about the flood heading the WF's way. However, last time I was on JVZ I clicked a few offers and they were dead. Just observing here so you're prepared.

Conceptually, I wonder what happens if I create a product and the product URL is my affiliate link. Example, my Amazon affiliate link. I then setup an affiliate program to draw traffic. I suppose the lack of sales stats cures the problem for signups. Mainly, just musing here about issues sneaky ones may find a way to manipulate.

.

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ATAC

10 years ago

Just like anything else it's going to have it's growing pains when it's first released...
I will wait a while to get the kinks out before I launch with it for the exact reason that you guys stated above..

Nothing is going to happen to jvzoo and the rest because they can be used to collect payments all over the web.
This is very good news because of the added competition this will create with payment processors that this should drive prices down and features up ...

I am excited to see what they come up with as long as its not forced on us that we have to use it then that wouldn't be too cool..

I posted this before checking it out and as I said they only charge 2% ...
That is very attractive ....

Looks great to me so far from what I seen and this could be something special...

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writeaway

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ATAC

Just like anything else it's going to have it's growing pains when it's first released...
I will wait a while to get the kinks out before I launch with it for the exact reason that you guys stated above..

Nothing is going to happen to jvzoo and the rest because they can be used to collect payments all over the web.
This is very good news because of the added competition this will create with payment processors that this should drive prices down and features up ...

I am excited to see what they come up with as long as its not forced on us that we have to use it then that wouldn't be too cool..

I posted this before checking it out and as I said they only charge 2% ...
That is very attractive ....

Looks great to me so far from what I seen and this could be something special...

Exactly! Competition is the DRIVER of all economic progress! I see this as MASSIVE STEP FORWARD for the IM industry

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Matt,

Based on feedback from the community we will look to see where this may be appropriate to introduce for Warrior Payments.

Perhaps a price threshold? Anything with any component (front end or follow-up offer/OTO) selling at over $XYZ requires verification?

That could help cut down on some of the iffy stuff that could actually damage people in meaningful ways.

Paul

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Simeon Tuitt

10 years ago

This looks great, I notice that new wsos can now be set up with the new wf payments, but is there anyway of adding existing wsos to the payments platform or do new ones need creating (this would create duplicate threads and rules state only one of a wso)?

Also is there as someone asked above anyway of delaying affiliate commissions for sellers who have a statutory refund period they wish to elapse before payouts and also to screen which affiliates are accepted to promote.

Cheers.
Sim

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Simeon Tuitt

This looks great, I notice that new wsos can now be set up with the new wf payments, but is there anyway of adding existing wsos to the payments platform or do new ones need creating (this would create duplicate threads and rules state only one of a wso)?

Also is there as someone asked above anyway of delaying affiliate commissions for sellers who have a statutory refund period they wish to elapse before payouts and also to screen which affiliates are accepted to promote.

Cheers.
Sim

Hi Sim,

Fill in the details of your WSO on the "Create New Offer". On the next page you can select "Add button to existing Warrior Forum offer" tab and select a current WSO. You can implement our new Warrior Payments button onto any of your existing WSOs.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Garrie,

Sure. There will always be people who try to game the system. That's a given. And there will always be people who succeed. The goal is to make it more expensive to game it than to go somewhere else, or just stop the scams.

Perfect ain't happening. But "a lot better" ... Yeah. And what Matt has described in this thread qualifies.

Paul
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- Tom B Banned 10 years ago
  
  Congrats on the release guys.
  
  Quick question, any api us software developers can tap into?
  
  Thanks
  
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Sid Hale

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

Fill in the details of your WSO on the "Create New Offer". On the next page you can select "Add button to existing Warrior Forum offer" tab and select a current WSO. You can implement our new Warrior Payments button onto any of your existing WSOs.

Immediately cutting out previously existing affiliates (i.e. replacement of JVZoo or Warrior + button).

If affiliates are actively sending traffic to an existing WSO with a payment button from one of the other services, pushing a WP button onto the page will have the effect of creating free traffic from those affiliates.

Not a particularly smooth move, fellas.

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barbling

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Sid Hale

Immediately cutting out previously existing affiliates (i.e. replacement of JVZoo or Warrior + button).

If affiliates are actively sending traffic to an existing WSO with a payment button from one of the other services, pushing a WP button onto the page will have the effect of creating free traffic from those affiliates.

Not a particularly smooth move, fellas.

What can be done in that case (and should be done in case JVzoo/W+ gets banned from the forum in the future) is simply duplicate the sales copy on a self-hosted page and then update the JVzoo/W+ listing to point to the new location.

Existing affiliates to a W+/JVzoo offer will then continued to be credited.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Sid Hale

Immediately cutting out previously existing affiliates (i.e. replacement of JVZoo or Warrior + button).

If affiliates are actively sending traffic to an existing WSO with a payment button from one of the other services, pushing a WP button onto the page will have the effect of creating free traffic from those affiliates.

Not a particularly smooth move, fellas.

It's more than just not smooth. Highly unethical to do that to your affiliates. If you're going to do that, people better be telling their affiliates to stop promoting your offer or move the offer to a self hosted page.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Chris,

I think it is already too late. Every notification I receive from WF goes to the spam folder in my gmail account.

Gmail's handling of filtering isn't really an indication that mail from a given source is considered bad across the board. If it's hitting the spam folder, it's getting past the SMTP rejection stage. That means you can mark it as "not spam" yourself and still get it delivered normally.

The concern I was talking about is the forum's IP space getting blocked by something like Spamhaus for spam support. That would mean a lot of mail being blocked at a lot of services, with very little room for appeal.

Then there are the local blocklists, maintained by many large service providers. If you get into those, you're pretty much toast with them. Getting out of local lists is anywhere from difficult to impossible. And in the US, they're legally covered for this kind of blocking based on the safe harbor provisions of the CDA.

It would not surprise me to find that the addition of the regular marketing broadcasts have tipped mail from the forum to "likely spam" as far as a lot of user-controlled feedback systems are concerned. That is pure speculation, mind you. Call it an educated guess.

Letting email spamware be sold here, even by accident or inexperience, could well be the tipping point. The humans who make a lot of the decisions would see that and say, "If they don't care about our systems, we don't need to care about theirs." Plonk.

The offer in question appears to have been removed. Unless the policy has been changed to allow things that were not previously, whoever approved that one should go back and re-read the rules for offers here. That one wasn't a violation hidden among a long list of features. The subject line was "Facebook email scraper," or something very close to that.

Freelancer can set whatever policies they want, obviously. But if those policies result in PM notifications and/or receipts and download instructions getting blocked, it's going to be a nightmare for sellers and customers alike.

That may be less of an issue if this was just someone with less experience approving something that won't be approved in the future. Stuff happens. It's hard, though, to overstate the importance of avoiding even the appearance of supporting email spam or spamware.

Then there's the issue Brian mentioned. Facebook is not pleasant when they see what they consider to be attacks on their infrastructure.

Paul
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iAmNameLess

10 years ago

Nice job guys. I can't exactly comment on features or give any suggestions until I look further into everything but it looks like this is a pretty good move and definitely one that improves the community or at the very least, the WF brand.

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Rob Whisonant

10 years ago

When you click the create WSO button I don't see an option to NOT use the new payment system. Is it now mandatory that all new WSOs use the new payment system?

Also it will not let you set the price to free. So are free WSOs no longer allowed?

I'm apparently missing something here.

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Cory Friedman 10 years ago

Same boat here
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Shane F

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant

When you click the create WSO button I don't see an option to NOT use the new payment system. Is it now mandatory that all new WSOs use the new payment system?

Also it will not let you set the price to free. So are free WSOs no longer allowed?

I'm apparently missing something here.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

Right with you Rob. Went to create a new WSO thread and only option is to use the new payment system.

Are we not able to use JVZoo or W+ anymore?

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WillR

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Shane F

Right with you Rob. Went to create a new WSO thread and only option is to use the new payment system.

Are we not able to use JVZoo or W+ anymore?

I saw this as well when clicking on create wso. Takes you straight to Warrior Payments.

This had better not be the case or that changes things big time.

Ain't no one going to force me to use their payment processor, sorry.

Really hope this is not the case.

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giotheinternetboy

10 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

I saw this as well when clicking on create wso. Takes you straight to Warrior Payments.

This had better not be the case or that changes things big time.

Ain't no one going to force me to use their payment processor, sorry.

Really hope this is not the case.

Is Alaister going to answer this! WE"RE WAITING!!!

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ATAC

10 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

I saw this as well when clicking on create wso. Takes you straight to Warrior Payments.

This had better not be the case or that changes things big time.

Ain't no one going to force me to use their payment processor, sorry.

Really hope this is not the case.

This is B/S ...

Here we go as I said it in my previous post.. I knew they were going to force this on us ..
Greed is a powerful thing ...
The beginning of the end ..
I

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wizozz 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Shane F

Right with you Rob. Went to create a new WSO thread and only option is to use the new payment system.

Are we not able to use JVZoo or W+ anymore?

If it doesn't allow other payment systems, I don't think it is a good idea. Adding an option is good, but forcing other options out is bad.

Not that I'm gonna launch a WSO soon or anything, still...

And JVZoo and WarriorPro were not the only competing options, there is digiresults, free offers, RAP type of scripts, etc.
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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant

I'll second the API question and also ask where the postback information is. When a sale is made, where do I define the URL that the sales information is posted to?

Also I don't see a way to integrate a self hosted autoresponder so the postback routine would be a mandatory feature.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

Originally Posted by Shane F

Right with you Rob. Went to create a new WSO thread and only option is to use the new payment system.

Are we not able to use JVZoo or W+ anymore?

We're not banning the use of any network. We have a large team here rapidly building out the features of Warrior Payments. It is already a fraction of the price of the competitors and in no time at all we'll have all the features and more compared to the competitors.

We're cleaning up the marketplace so we want the WSO section to be for people looking to buy and sell products or services. Free offers can be placed in the War Room and in the Classifieds section.

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WillR 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

We're not banning the use of any network at this point..

That bit worries me. Just remember that is was networks such as Warrior Plus and JV ZOO that made the WSO forum what it is today. Without them it simply would not exist in its current form. Many veteran members know this. So you would lose a lot of respect from users if you were to remove them from the equation at any stage of the process.

I sure hope that is not on the cards... for everyones sake.

FYI -- Clickbank charge 7.5% + $1 and plenty of people still use them. I changed from Warrior Plus to JVZoo sometime ago also which meant an increase in my fees. So competing on price alone won't work. Experienced vendors don't decide just on price but on many other factors as well. I much rather pay a little more for a service I prefer.
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- GarrieWilson 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by WillR
  
  FYI -- Clickbank charge 7.5% + $1 and plenty of people still use them.
  
  They also accept payments using their account, pay affiliates and all the tax paper work. Comparing WP, W+ or JVZoo to them is unfair IMHO.
  
  -g
  
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Rob Whisonant

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

We're not banning the use of any network. We have a large team here rapidly building out the features of Warrior Payments. It is already a fraction of the price of the competitors and in no time at all we'll have all the features and more compared to the competitors.

Once WP is up and fully working with the features I need, I will love the low 2% price. Just can't use it as it sits now.

How do you bypass warrior payments and use another method when creating a new WSO? I don't see a way to do that.

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GarrieWilson 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

We're not banning the use of any network.

Then how can you create a WSO w/out using Warrior Payments? All the create WSO links take you there.

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Highway55

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

We're not banning the use of any network...

We're cleaning up the marketplace so we want the WSO section to be for people looking to buy and sell products or services. Free offers can be placed in the War Room and in the Classifieds section.

So you're banning the ability to create a free wso?

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Mou

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

We're cleaning up the marketplace so we want the WSO section to be for people looking to buy and sell products or services. Free offers can be placed in the War Room and in the Classifieds section.

For now the subforums "Sites for Sell", "Warriors for hire" are not included in this new change? "Cleaning up the marketplace"...so do you want to merge these subforums in WSO section? In that case what happens to the feedbacks and reviews a service seller has received over the years.

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rbeckwith

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

We're not banning the use of any network. We have a large team here rapidly building out the features of Warrior Payments. It is already a fraction of the price of the competitors and in no time at all we'll have all the features and more compared to the competitors.

We're cleaning up the marketplace so we want the WSO section to be for people looking to buy and sell products or services. Free offers can be placed in the War Room and in the Classifieds section.

Hi Alaister,

Ok...so if you are not banning other networks, where are they? I was going to setup a new WSO, but your page is glaring me in the face and there isn't an option to select another vendor

Please elaborate on what is going on and how we can use W+ or JVZ

Thanks
Rod

PS - If you are considering not having instant payments for affiliates, reconsider because I will be taking my business elsewhere.

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Nic Oliver 10 years ago

Alaister seems to have gone very quiet - there are a lot of unanswered questions in this thread.

People never seem to learn that when change is being made, the more silent the change makers are, the more rumour and supposition persist!
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- Paul Myers 10 years ago
  
  Nic,
  
  Alaister seems to have gone very quiet - there are a lot of unanswered questions in this thread.
  
  Time zones. Alaister and Matt are in Australia. They're very likely asleep now. They probably spent a good chunk of last night on emails and phone calls related to the new system, on top of the usual demands of running of the forum and Freelancer.
  
  "Isn't instant" doesn't mean "not paying attention."
  
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zapseo

10 years ago

Rob,

You can use this link:

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Live JoyFully!

Judy

Originally Posted by rbeckwith

Hi Alaister,

Ok...so if you are not banning other networks, where are they? I was going to setup a new WSO, but your page is glaring me in the face and there isn't an option to select another vendor

Please elaborate on what is going on and how we can use W+ or JVZ

Thanks
Rod

PS - If you are considering not having instant payments for affiliates, reconsider because I will be taking my business elsewhere.

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rbeckwith 10 years ago

Originally Posted by zapseo

Rob,

You can use this link:

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Live JoyFully!

Judy

Hi Judy,

Thanks!

Rod
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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by rbeckwith

PS - If you are considering not having instant payments for affiliates, reconsider because I will be taking my business elsewhere.

Who's going to pay the refunds If the affiliate gets payed an instant payment?

If an affiliate delivers crappy traffic or bogus promises in order to get a sale, then the buyer refunds, do you really think the seller is going to pay the affiliate out of his own pocket after losing a sale?

Good luck with that setup.

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Devid Farah 10 years ago

Am with Will and Nic Oliver BIG TIME here.

Dear Matt barrie and Alaister, DONT force me to use your warriorpayments system, we want to be able to choose the payment system we prefer and like.

Given your answers, it seems that we wont be able to use em anymore so chime in here.

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rbeckwith

10 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Who's going to pay the refunds If the affiliate gets payed an instant payment?

If an affiliate delivers crappy traffic or bogus promises in order to get a sale, then the buyer refunds, do you really think the seller is going to pay the affiliate out of his own pocket after losing a sale?

Good luck with that setup.

Have been using that setup successfully since W+ came online with their affiliate system and have made a very decent chunk of cash with my 50K+ lists. And I would expect that many vendors I work with and affiliates feel the same way.

Fraud has never been an issue for those that are careful about selecting their affiliates.

And with Paypal's adaptive, refunds are automatically deducted from their account. Happens to me all the time.

The fact of the matter is I am not in the business of making short or long term loans to larger companies. I chose W+ and JVZ because I get paid instantly for my efforts.

Rod

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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by rbeckwith

Have been using that setup successfully since W+ came online with their affiliate system and have made a very decent chunk of cash with my 50K+ lists. And I would expect that many vendors I work with and affiliates feel the same way.

Fraud has never been an issue for those that are careful about selecting their affiliates.

And with Paypal's adaptive, refunds are automatically deducted from their account. Happens to me all the time.

The fact of the matter is I am not in the business of making short or long term loans to larger companies. I chose W+ and JVZ because I get paid instantly for my efforts.

Rod

I'm sure the majority of people selling WSOs will take any affiliate they can get & that is pretty much the advertising behind this promotion.

[source]

Tap into the Warrior network of over 780,000 Internet marketers to sell your product or service.

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Mike Anthony 10 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I'm sure the majority of people selling WSOs will take any affiliate they can get & that is pretty much the advertising behind this promotion.

Its an advertising offer but I don't see how that means sellers don't have to do their due diligence. I'd be curious to now how that process goes. Whether you can communicate with prospective affiliates and check them out before
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rbeckwith

10 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I'm sure the majority of people selling WSOs will take any affiliate they can get & that is pretty much the advertising behind this promotion.
[source]

>>>Wow, I won't go into why that is such a totally false assumption.

How much have you sold on WF as a Vendor or an Affiliate?

I can say from VAST experience that what you are saying isn't true. And after selling over 10K+ Units of product and being an affiliate for another 20K+ units on the WF alone you can bet that if the powers that be think that holding my money is a good idea, the salad days are over for WF for me because I don't care about how many people are claimed to be on this forum.. a majority of them DON'T buy. Also, the abuse that is put out by a few choice trolls when selling isn't worth the downward spiral in sales over the last year. I don't promote ANYTHING that isn't instant pay anymore unless it is a large ticket item for which I can understand about fraud issues and charge-backs.

Having a competing internal payment/affiliate system to JVZ or W+ is fine...always wondered why it was never done. Just hope that FL understands what they bought and what kind of hornets nest they are toying with.

Working the WF can be lucrative, but it has been overrun by wannabe's and bad offers. If they want to improve the experience, then they need to cull the herd of fakers that are giving the WF a bad name.

Rod

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brutecky

10 years ago

Originally Posted by rbeckwith

>>>Wow, I won't go into why that is such a totally false assumption.

How much have you sold on WF as a Vendor or an Affiliate?

I can say from VAST experience that what you are saying isn't true.

I totally agree. I deny affiliates the right to promo my stuff every day.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

There needs to big a sign with big letters that reads "BETA" in front of the words Warrior Payments.

The system as it is now is pretty basic, and is like asking Warriors if they want chicken knuckles instead of steak. I love that the WF has gotten into the 3rd party payment processing game, but I see more questions than answers.

I understand it will take time to release all the features to be able to compete with W+ and JVZ, so that's not the questions I have. What I'd like to know is, why is there a link in some random thread to the old WSO WYSIWYG when it should be front and center next to the WP button?

You say Warriors wont be forced to use WP but then you hide the link to other payment methods in some random thread. I love that WF has come up with it's own payment method, but little things like hiding the other payment processing sites and saying other P.P's won't be banned for the time being, has me wondering what you guys are really up to

One question though, can I get the secret handshake for the wso of the day?

Yeah, it's called giving them an 80% cut

Originally Posted by yukon View Post
I'm sure the majority of people selling WSOs will take any affiliate they can get

This is a one way ticket to getting scammed. This should be stricken from the WF records

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

Yeah, it's called giving them an 80% cut

Actually, they "suggest" a higher than 80% commission.

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Alex Blades 10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Actually, they "suggest" a higher than 80% commission.

Unless I am giving 100% commission on the front end, that throttle will not move past 50%

I know and appreciate the value of good affiliates, and will not give anyone a higher commission than them. Good affiliates will always be there, 3rd party processors will always promote what makes them the most money.
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kindsvater

10 years ago

it doesn't matter how good the product is, you will still get plenty of "those people" especially in this niche. This niche attracts them like crazy.

That could level the playing field. Everyone ends up with a terrible rating.

I don't promote ANYTHING that isn't instant pay anymore unless it is a large ticket item for which I can understand about fraud issues and charge-backs.

There are run-of-the-mill affiliates, and then there are super affiliates like Rod Beckwith. One of the reasons they are "super" is because they demand to see the WSO before they promote it. If they don't think its up to snuff they don't promote it. Sure, its easy enough to throw darts claiming an affiliate will promote anything if the commission is enough, but that's not my experience. Certainly not what I do.

They deserve instant payment.

johndoe65 who joined the forum today and made an affiliate request - I'm not probably approving them anyway without addressing their payments.

Suggestion: someone like Rod should be automatically approved as my affiliate for any product I list. I shouldn't have to spend my time approving him, and he shouldn't have to wait until I'm back from wherever to see his request - and he's now focused on some other product.

Right now, I am not seeing anything about how Warrior Forum decides what product to promote as product of the day, how they would get access to certain products, who makes the decision, etc.

Suggestion: some type of credibility is needed. I want the Forum to promote great products. Not something because there is at least an 80 percent commission. From a legal standpoint I don't know how a public company could not perform that review before promoting.

To be clear - I think the forum has a conflict of interest promoting anything AND making an affiliate commission beyond a transaction fee payment, and so do W+ and JVZoo. They shouldn't be doing that. But money has walked over that argument for years.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

That could level the playing field. Everyone ends up with a terrible rating.

.

That's most likely what is going to happen. Example below.

In the first example, a buyer posted 1.0 feedback on a $1.50 WSO. His feedback: "it should be free."

It's possible it should be free and it's possible it shouldn't be a product at all, but that feedback helps no one make a decision on whether or not to go all out and spend $1.50. No details. That's not feedback ... that's a sarcastic remark.

Second example: Looks like a buyer thinks it's an awesome product, giving it a full 5.0 rating. Then some assmonkey comes along and gives it a 0 rating because he believes he didn't get a download link yet. Did he tell the seller he has a problem? Who knows. That is not feedback on the product. That is a glitch that probably was temporary and probably was taken care of.

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CPAMasterX

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

That's most likely what is going to happen. Example below.

In the first example, a buyer posted 1.0 feedback on a $1.50 WSO. His feedback: "it should be free."

It's possible it should be free and it's possible it shouldn't be a product at all, but that feedback helps no one make a decision on whether or not to go all out and spend $1.50. No details. That's not feedback ... that's a sarcastic remark.

Second example: Looks like a buyer thinks it's an awesome product, giving it a full 5.0 rating. Then some assmonkey comes along and gives it a 0 rating because he believes he didn't get a download link yet. Did he tell the seller he has a problem? Who knows. That is not feedback on the product. That is a glitch that probably was temporary and probably was taken care of.

I can talk about it from first-hand! I just had a customer who gave me a full 0.0!

I am not too sure what to say about it... He didn't even check the product (at least he was honest with it...) and not even contacted with me, I went through all my emails (support, personal), membership forum, checked my WF PMs, no questions received!

...So I gave up! Fortunately, I have real feedbacks in my sales thread, so people can make decision based on those!

Imho, this rating system could only work if you set some criterias, so only known and trusted people can vote! This could avoid every misuse and the ratings would be something that help people to make decision!

It is kinda disturbing and as I see I am not alone with it!

P.S.: Even worse that I can't even click on his profile to contact him!

Bests,
CPAMasterX

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Brian,

I think the forum has a conflict of interest promoting anything AND making an affiliate commission beyond a transaction fee payment

This is something that would concern me if I were involved in the process. Having the entity that approves and moderates offers also taking a financial interest in the success of specific offers.

What are they going to do if, as has happened with a few WSOTDs, they promote something and the mods find out there's a problem with it?

The example that springs immediately to mind is the case where Mike Lantz sent a WSOTD email for an offer and I discovered the seller was using a faked income screenshot. (When I showed her how I knew it was faked, she admitted it.)

Will moderators employed by a company that has a stake in the success of that promotion be willing/able to do anything about such a situation when it arises? Even assuming they are, will people perceive there to be a conflict? Will people whose incomes depend on the forum be willing/able to separate the rules from their fear of being fired over decisions that cost the company money?

Especially problematic if they're getting a cut of all sales for one processor. Any active moderation that isn't in the favor of the seller and for which the seller uses another payment processing/affiliate platform is going to create complaints about favoritism.

And when someone uses WarriorPayments and a customer has a complaint removed for cause (swearing, personal attacks), it's going to give rise to the usual noise about favoring the sellers at the expense of buyers.

Paul
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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

To be clear - I think the forum has a conflict of interest promoting anything AND making an affiliate commission beyond a transaction fee payment, and so do W+ and JVZoo. They shouldn't be doing that. But money has walked over that argument for years.

My concern as well, what about two people who's products are in the same niche and one gets their product promoted by the advertising platform for a commission and the other does not, yet they've both paid for the opportunity to get sales from the same pool of buyers, the same audience, the same forum users.

Isn't there a duty to deal fairly in business dealings, especially so when money has been exchanged? I think it's bordering on bad faith a situation like that.

If a search engine got caught accepting advertising dollars from advertisers in the same space and then leveraging their power to make money by promoting an advertisers product over the other advertisers, they'd get in very HOT water.

Hey, I might be way off base here but that's how I'm seeing this. = |

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by rbeckwith

I don't promote ANYTHING that isn't instant pay anymore unless it is a large ticket item for which I can understand about fraud issues and charge-backs.

Rod

... and that is just fine and dandy and your choice. At present, sellers don't have a choice on whether or not to delay commission and they should have a choice. The number of shady and criminal affiliates is high enough that anyone offering Instant Commissions to people they don't know is a complete idiot. You have the choice not to apply to be an affiliate for anyone with delayed commission.

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rbeckwith

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

... and that is just fine and dandy and your choice. At present, sellers don't have a choice on whether or not to delay commission and they should have a choice. The number of shady and criminal affiliates is high enough that anyone offering Instant Commissions to people they don't know is a complete idiot. You have the choice not to apply to be an affiliate for anyone with delayed commission.

Of course I am not saying that vendors shouldn't have a choice, what I am talking about is if they are going to try a Clickbank stunt by holding onto my money for days or weeks as a business practice.

And I will usually ask the delayed payment vendor to kindly change my payments to instant or I can't promote them.

Rod

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by rbeckwith

Of course I am not saying that vendors shouldn't have a choice, what I am talking about is if they are going to try a Clickbank stunt by holding onto my money for days or weeks as a business practice.

And I will usually ask the delayed payment vendor to kindly change my payments to instant or I can't promote them.

Rod

I agree about Clickbank. There's actually nothing about Clickbank that I like

... and if I were running a WSO and you asked to be an affiliate, I'd likely change you to Instant Payments. You have a reputation.

... but most that have applied to promote my offers on JVZ and W+ have been unknowns to me and most in fact, never made a single sale, with the exception of the scam affiliates that bought with stolen credit cards. The majority of real sales were made by a handful of affiliates, and those I would put on Instant Commissions also.

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nicheblogger75

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I agree about Clickbank. There's actually nothing about Clickbank that I like

... and if I were running a WSO and you asked to be an affiliate, I'd likely change you to Instant Payments. You have a reputation.

... but most that have applied to promote my offers on JVZ and W+ have been unknowns to me and most in fact, never made a single sale, with the exception of the scam affiliates that bought with stolen credit cards. The majority of real sales were made by a handful of affiliates, and those I would put on Instant Commissions also.

You're so right. I get dozens of affiliate requests on JVZoo every day. 98% have 0 sales. Yet they all seem to want me to approve them for "instant" commissions. Sadly, I have been hit hard in the past by the stolen credit card instant commission scam, so unless an affiliate has at least 100 sales, they'll be getting put on delayed commissions.

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JR Lang

10 years ago

Originally Posted by nicheblogger75

You're so right. I get dozens of affiliate requests on JVZoo every day. 98% have 0 sales. Yet they all seem to want me to approve them for "instant" commissions. Sadly, I have been hit hard in the past by the stolen credit card instant commission scam, so unless an affiliate has at least 100 sales, they'll be getting put on delayed commissions.

This is going to cause issues as well, and I agree, approving affiliates with low sales is risky, but, it will be an issues since it will take time for affiliates to build up sale numbers, that data won't transfer from W+. I have affiliates there with 5000+ sales, and here they will be brand new.

One idea I guess would be to check out their usernames on W+ to see their history.

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nicheblogger75

10 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I'm sure the majority of people selling WSOs will take any affiliate they can get & that is pretty much the advertising behind this promotion.

[source]

I'd have to disagree with that. As a seller I vet all of my affiliate applicants thoroughly and I only want affiliates who will promote ethically. I would gladly sacrifice sales if I knew an affiliate was using spammy promotion methods or sending junk traffic to get them. Personally, I only want affiliates that use their email lists to promote. If an affiliate applies and has no list, then I will likely set them to delayed commissions or not approve them at all. It's just not worth the headaches that come along with affiliates who aren't promoting the right way.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

I pretty much do the same thing when it comes to affiliates. I rarely approve requests and yes it may have hurt sales but I prefer to have my stuff sent to people who have a following that they mail to.

I'm actually on several of my affiliates mailing list so I see what sort of content they mail, how frequently they are promoting other peoples stuff, how frequently they mail for their own stuff, how often or not they just provide just pure content for their users to learn from.

Approving an affiliate who want's to promote on some blog somewhere that no one has ever heard of? Sorry, but no thanks.

Under Warrior Payments I would defiantly need to be able to select
the affiliates for my stuff and deny all others if I so choose.

Originally Posted by nicheblogger75

I'd have to disagree with that. As a seller I vet all of my affiliate applicants thoroughly and I only want affiliates who will promote ethically. I would gladly sacrifice sales if I knew an affiliate was using spammy promotion methods or sending junk traffic to get them. Personally, I only want affiliates that use their email lists to promote. If an affiliate applies and has no list, then I will likely set them to delayed commissions or not approve them at all. It's just not worth the headaches that come along with affiliates who aren't promoting the right way.

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ExRat 10 years ago

Hi Rus,

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Under Warrior Payments I would defiantly need to be able to select the affiliates for my stuff and deny all others if I so choose.

I like coming across that typo in a strange Pythonesque kind of way. It conjures up images of people being all defiant in inappropriate situations.
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- Rus Sells 10 years ago
  
  I hadn't had my coffee yet so of course I'm defiant about everything before getting some java in me! LOL
  
  Originally Posted by ExRat
  
  Hi Rus,
  
  I like coming across that typo in a strange Pythonesque kind of way. It conjures up images of people being all defiant in inappropriate situations.
  
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- Paul Myers 10 years ago
  
  Will,
  
  And that group of top marketers is all very tight and very supportive of one another and thus the support that JVZoo currently has and will continue to have.
  
  Ignoring those loyalties would be a very bad move, unless the goal is to rebuild into something completely different while coasting on the momentum of the place.
  
  That may well be the plan. I haven't seen anything that strongly suggests otherwise.
  
  The forum has a huge existing content base, and attracts new members every day. It would seem relatively easy to simply change directions and operate on the assumption that inertia would keep most of the long-term members coming back. The new members would consider anything that's here when they sign up to be the norm.
  
  The business end of the decision to create an in-house ecommerce platform makes perfect sense. If Mike or the JV Zoo guys had bought the forum, I have no doubt they'd have moved to increase their share of WSO revenues in similar fashion. I doubt anyone would have had serious objections to it.
  
  The difference is, they understand how the forum works, in terms of the relationships and dynamics that exist. It's the old "You need to know the rules in order to know when to break them" thing. They know what the pistons are that keep that momentum going.
  
  The Freelancer guys don't. That's not a bad thing by itself, of course. They may have a vision for the place that's different enough that we wouldn't even recognize the end result.
  
  For example, I'd be surprised if the idea of putting in the ecommerce platform wasn't in the plan before they bought the place. I'd also be surprised if making it the default processor for WSOs wasn't a first step in a much larger goal for that system.
  
  If they play it right, that could easily be worth the cost of admission all by itself. If they run afoul of too many of those established relationships too quickly, though, they could tank it quick.
  
  I can imagine a lot of scenarios in which the existing relationships and loyalties would be irrelevant to them, in terms of business sense. And you can see the new ones popping up already.
  
  It's not the same place. Hasn't been since the day Allen sold it. Whether that becomes a good or bad thing overall remains to be seen, but it will be a very different thing.
  
  Paul
  
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Rob Whisonant

10 years ago

I'll second the API question and also ask where the postback information is. When a sale is made, where do I define the URL that the sales information is posted to?

Also I don't see a way to integrate a self hosted autoresponder so the postback routine would be a mandatory feature.

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Chris Worner

10 years ago

Out of curiosity, what is the current/future policy regarding refunds if using the Warrior Payments service? Do sellers have the option of offering or refusing them?

-Chris

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marax

10 years ago

I hope it offers more buyer protection.
It really is a headache when sellers refuse to honor their refund policies,
or make buyers jump through hoop after hoop to get their money back.
I know there are some people who exploit refund policies.
But the priority should be to make buyers feel safe over making scammers feel unsafe.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

I called this back in April http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-but-what.html

I like the move, too much money has been leaking out the forum. This is good for everybody. I have no problems with JVZoo or Warrior+ but I didn't like how they email your subscribers before you or an affiliate can even send out an email. In a sense we were building our own competition. Affiliates work hard to drive sales, and last thing they want is to get beat to the commission by an automated email.

The question I have is will we be building the WP list like we did with the W+ and JVZ? Lower price is good, but what we really want to know, is will WP be emailing our buyers like W+ and JVZ has?

People work hard on the launch, only to have a 3rd party processor email your buyers and slip in their own affiliate link, before you can even send your "we're live" email. Will this be the same with WP?

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zapseo

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

I called this back in April http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-but-what.html

I like the move, too much money has been leaking out the forum. This is good for everybody. I have no problems with JVZoo or Warrior+ but I didn't like how they email your subscribers before you or an affiliate can even send out an email. In a sense we were building our own competition. Affiliates work hard to drive sales, and last thing they want is to get beat to the commission by an automated email.

The question I have is will we be building the WP list like we did with the W+ and JVZ? Lower price is good, but what we really want to know, is will WP be emailing our buyers like W+ and JVZ has?

People work hard on the launch, only to have a 3rd party processor email your buyers and slip in their own affiliate link, before you can even send your "we're live" email. Will this be the same with WP?

Why would WarriorPayments need to build a list...they already have a HUGE one in the WarriorForum! A good case could be made for people who post WSOs actually building their lists from the WarriorForum!

As for affiliates, if it hadn't been for Mike Lantz, we probably wouldn't be talking about affiliates at all here. (reference WillR's post above.)

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by zapseo

Why would WarriorPayments need to build a list...they already have a HUGE one in the WarriorForum! A good case could be made for people who post WSOs actually building their lists from the WarriorForum!

As for affiliates, if it hadn't been for Mike Lantz, we probably wouldn't be talking about affiliates at all here. (reference WillR's post above.)

You are confusing a sign up list with a buyers list, that is like comparing apples to oranges. As far as Mike Lantz goes, he came up with a great idea, and he has made millions from it, but lets not confuse him as being a pioneer of the affiliate system. Clickbank has been doing that for many years successfully. W+ was a great idea, to make profits, so let's not get it twisted.

W+ has made it easier for the "small guy" to find affiliates, but if the products doesn't make enough sales, nobody is going to promote it. The same goes for product of the day, lets not forget that money talks and bullshit walks. The WF coming out with their own system, is good news for all of us, whether you use it or not. I like the features that W+ has, so I want to wait and see what WP has to offer that is better than the others.

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zapseo

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

You are confusing a sign up list with a buyers list, that is like comparing apples to oranges. As far as Mike Lantz goes, he came up with a great idea, and he has made millions from it, but lets not confuse him as being a pioneer of the affiliate system. Clickbank has been doing that for many years successfully. W+ was a great idea, to make profits, so let's not get it twisted.

W+ has made it easier for the "small guy" to find affiliates, but if the products doesn't make enough sales, nobody is going to promote it. The same goes for product of the day, lets not forget that money talks and bullshit walks. The WF coming out with their own system, is good news for all of us, whether you use it or not. I like the features that W+ has, so I want to wait and see what WP has to offer that is better than the others.

Well, let's clarify a little bit...I could take umbrage that I'm comparing apples to oranges, but I won't.

But I will say that I am definitely NOT confusing Mike Lantz as being the pioneer of an affiliate system. Good grief.

Just pioneering the affiliate system for WSOs.

And trust me, as a VERY long time member of the WF...that was HUGELY groundbreaking.

At the time of my semi-retirement from writing WSO salesletters in 2012, I either knew or had worked with just about every major WSO vendor. I worked behind the scenes doing support for Colleen Slater's "Amazon Treasure Chest" ... which helped launch the career of Kieran McDonogh, the whole ide of "jv brokers" in the WSO space...as well as alerted the world to how powerful the WSO forum had become.

Shortly after that, ClickBank looked into how to figure out how to have WSO vendors use CB buttons.

And, at about the same time, some tightening of rules at ClickBank brought some of the CB Vendors over to the WSO space.

Too bad I can't find the post from Robert Stukes made on facebook giving credit to Mike for as much as having created an industry.

No, Mike didn't invent the affiliate system (and neither did ClickBank.) But he did bring it to WSOs...which has subsequently propelled a LOT of folks into a whole new, and lucrative, business. People whose names you are undoubtedly familiar with.

Live JoyFully!

Judy

P.S. And after numerous affiliate promotions (and scams), I've certainly never made as much money as an affiliate until W+ and JVZoo put in the affiliate system. And I've talked to other marketers who have experienced similarly.

P.P.S. Mike's initial list was a sign up list...a sign up list created from Warriors who wanted to use his free WSO research & alerts system. It wasn't then, and isn't now, simply a buyer's list. Shows what you can do with a list of "freebie seekers"...eh? You have the power to change things...use a bit of creativity and you can "cheat" those systems from the evil you think they do.

P.P.P.S. Might also want to consider how many sales these systems have brought their users.

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ExRat

10 years ago

Hi,

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

The question I have is will we be building the WP list like we did with the W+ and JVZ? Lower price is good, but what we really want to know, is will WP be emailing our buyers like W+ and JVZ has?

People work hard on the launch, only to have a 3rd party processor email your buyers and slip in their own affiliate link, before you can even send your "we're live" email. Will this be the same with WP?

I'm also interested in the answer to this. Will Warrior Payments be acting as an affiliate and promoting the offers as an affiliate? Will you do mailings like WSO of the day? Will you automatically make yourself an affiliate of every offer? Will you clearly and openly present the option for customers to remove Warrior Payments as an affiliate if they choose?

MOST importantly - if Warrior Payments IS going to act as an affiliate, will you be quietly dropping cookies in various places on your web property, for example within your marketplace pages? If so, are you going to be completely open about all of the different places on your web property where this will occur?

Many thanks.

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TiffanyLambert

10 years ago

Aww that sucks about the free WSOs. I've also enjoyed doing some honor system WSOs where people set their own price.

Classifieds? Pffft. Does anyone even look in there?

War Room? Not everyone's a member.

Also, the person who asked about CHOOSING our affiliates to be approved, was that ever answered? If so, I missed it. I'm picky about who I approve. I don't want a wide open affiliate base.

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyLambert

Also, the person who asked about CHOOSING our affiliates to be approved, was that ever answered? If so, I missed it. I'm picky about who I approve. I don't want a wide open affiliate base.

Once someone requests to be an affiliate, the product seller has the ability to approve or reject them.

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Martin Salter

10 years ago

Regarding the Free WSO going away, is that from now or do you have a date in mind when this will be the case?

Thank You

Originally Posted by TiffanyLambert

Aww that sucks about the free WSOs. I've also enjoyed doing some honor system WSOs where people set their own price.

Classifieds? Pffft. Does anyone even look in there?

War Room? Not everyone's a member.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Each day we'll choose a Warrior Daily Deal to promote. You can select the commission Warrior Forum will receive if your product is selected. We recommend commission of over 80%

Well, that makes the selection criteria pretty obvious. Not a huge issue, since it's called "Deal of the Day" and not anything that implies a choice based on relative merit/value. It's good that it's right there in the open. Saves a lot of conspiracy theory arguments later.

flyingdutch,

Nothing will completely stop fake reviews. I'd assume that to be a given.

This will do a number of useful things in that direction, though. For one thing, it will shut down a lot of the lower-level shills and trolls right away. As long as the review is attached to the forum username and not other info that someone may wish to keep private, there is no reason for a person not to use a system that verifies they actually paid for the product.

Bang. The people who blast products they haven't bought are shut down. As are the overwhelming majority of the shills, who simply aren't going to have the accounts needed to pull it off.

It will also save the mods a lot of time. No more arguments and long, drawn out PM exchanges in which a seller insists the member never bought, the member says they did, and no-one is willing to offer evidence.

It pushes any sort of in-house cheating (seller does all the faking) to areas where there would be "paper trails," creating a real potential for prosecution for fraud.

how would you tackle a review circle?

That gets tricky. Sometimes people with shared values and standards promote each others' products for legitimate reasons. It's nearly impossible to tell the difference between that and a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" agreement without a longer track record.

I think you'll find the members are pretty sharp about spotting such things. It will still be possible to get some of that by, but it's not a given that it won't go unnoticed.

The idea of paying people to buy the product and leave a review is a concern. Not many sellers will be willing to do that, but some certainly will. A few will be careless and get caught, but it's generally going to be a tough thing to prove.

Not a perfect system, but much more transparent than the current status of reviews. And, of course, it would only affect offers transacted through Warrior Payments. It will have no effect on W+, JV Zoo, DigiResults, or people who sell through their own shopping carts.

I personally think doing away with free WSOs is a bad idea. But that's just my opinion.

On the question of people selling or trading customer email addresses... Like posting fake reviews or refusing to honor a posted refund policy, that's always been a "Here's the door, don't come back" offense in the past.

As far as spamming affiliates, Mike Lantz and Brian Zimmerman are very responsible about that. They don't just nuke people based on a single complaint (and they shouldn't), but with proof someone is spamming offers on their systems, they'll dump the affiliate.

The forum will need to be at least as responsive to such issues. Probably more so.

Paul

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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Well, that makes the selection criteria pretty obvious. Not a huge issue, since it's called "Deal of the Day" and not anything that implies a choice based on relative merit/value.

I'm probably not understanding the commission then. If a seller gives up 80% I would think he's either going to raise his price or offer only some half baked info product. Sounds like a great way to burn out a list that most people will just stop opening.

What am I missing?

Plus why would it be a set percentage. Percentage isn't legal tender - cash is. 25% of 97 is more than 80% or 19.95

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Martin Salter

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I'm probably not understanding the commission then. If a seller gives up 80% I would think he's either going to raise his price or offer only some half baked info product. Sounds like a great way to burn out a list that most people will just stop opening.

What am I missing?

Plus why would it be a set percentage. Percentage isn't legal tender - cash is. 25% of 97 is more than 80% or 19.95

Mike, its all about the sales and the buyers list

If WFP promotes your offer as a deal of the day and because they do so you make 1000 more sales than you would of done by yourself.

1) You make 20% of your sale x 1000 rather than 100% of flip all!
2) You are building your buyers list. Nothing to stop you then selling them more, offering upsells etc and building your funnel.

Hope that makes sense

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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Salter

1) You make 20% of your sale x 1000 rather than 100% of flip all!
2) You are building your buyers list. Nothing to stop you then selling them more, offering upsells etc and building your funnel.

Hope that makes sense

It does but I already knew that (check my stats not a newb) as I think anyone at WF over a year does. but two things

A) you are thinking only info products. Anything that requires support or service is either going to pass or give some remarkable bad support

B) you are right from an upsell point of view it makes perfect sense which is why if percentage is the key criteria I would think sellers would create products or stripped down offers just for it. I am talking about how consumers end up viewing the "deal of the day". I'd continue opening it if some really good offers are in there not just people who agreed to pay 80% of some info product just to later upsell me.

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Martin Salter

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

It does but I already knew that (check my stats not a newb) as I think anyone at WF over a year does. but two things

A) you are thinking only info products. Anything that requires support or service is either going to pass or give some remarkable bad support

B) you are right from an upsell point of view it makes perfect sense which is why if percentage is the key criteria I would think sellers would create products or stripped down offers just for it. I am talking about how consumers end up viewing the "deal of the day". I'd continue opening it if some really good offers are in there not just people who agreed to pay 80% of some info product just to later upsell me.

Mike, sorry if I offended (I did check your stats and thought about it before replying), was just pointing it out in case others thinking the same.

With regards to your B comment... I agree with your remark, and like everything new, time will tell how that pans out. You could splinter your product down into smaller pieces I guess and give away 80% (or more) of that and then push the main product on the back end.

With experience we learn to test these things, or learn by our mistakes

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Mike Anthony 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Salter

You could splinter your product down into smaller pieces I guess and give away 80% (or more) of that and then push the main product on the back end

agreed! Thats just my point though That and similar strategies is exactly what I would expect marketers to do

which from the list openers point of view makes the deal of the day itself more likely to suck
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Jim Phillips

10 years ago

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Warrior Payments progresses in the near future. I'm encouraged knowing that freelancer understands what it is doing. They really do have the resources/knowledge to accomplish this task very quickly.

It is good to see that they are asking for feedback on some of the most critical areas of the Warrior Payment system. Instead of rolling out a completed system that would be more difficult to revamp.

As far as other payment/affiliate systems I guess they had a chance to purchase warriors forum like freelancer. Does anybody actually think that if jvz, w+, or etc. brought the warrior forum that they would have freely allowed other payment/affiliate systems inside?

It seems to me that freelancer has done a great job in a very short time overhauling the warrior forum from top to bottom. I wish them much success.

Of course with their success so will many others succeed therefore providing them more success.

That is what is so great about capitalism.

Best Regards,

Jim

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Jim Phillips

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Warrior Payments progresses in the near future. I'm encouraged knowing that freelancer understands what it is doing. They really do have the resources/knowledge to accomplish this task very quickly.

It is good to see that they are asking for feedback on some of the most critical areas of the Warrior Payment system. Instead of rolling out a completed system that would be more difficult to revamp.

As far as other payment/affiliate systems I guess they had a chance to purchase warriors forum like freelancer. Does anybody actually think that if jvz, w+, or etc. brought the warrior forum that they would have freely allowed other payment/affiliate systems inside?

It seems to me that freelancer has done a great job in a very short time overhauling the warrior forum from top to bottom. I wish them much success.

Of course with their success so will many others succeed therefore providing them more success.

That is what is so great about capitalism.

Best Regards,

Jim

Thanks for your feedback. We'll be constantly working with the community to build in features that people want and will benefit from.

Thanks

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RichardWing

10 years ago

Yes That and others I asked were answered here...

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post9375664

Originally Posted by TiffanyLambert

Aww that sucks about the free WSOs. I've also enjoyed doing some honor system WSOs where people set their own price.

Classifieds? Pffft. Does anyone even look in there?

War Room? Not everyone's a member.

Also, the person who asked about CHOOSING our affiliates to be approved, was that ever answered? If so, I missed it. I'm picky about who I approve. I don't want a wide open affiliate base.

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lotsofsnow

10 years ago

[DELETED]

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hpgoodboy

One feature that I would like to see:

To ask affiliates to automatically sign up for my JV list.

That feature was recently added to W+ and it is awesome.

When I release a new WSO I always have to contact my affiliates manually and with 900+ affiliates just on W+ that is a pain in the but. Copy/ paste and then send 10 messages through the forum: not good.

I prefer to simply ask the affiliates to join my JV announcement list hosted on Aweber.

This is a great suggestion. We'll look into implementing this.

Thanks
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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

This is a great suggestion. We'll look into implementing this.

Is there somewhere we can see all the features or F.A.Q?

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GlenH

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

Is there somewhere we can see all the features or F.A.Q?

Originally Posted by Nic Oliver

I'd like an easy to find FAQ and updated features list page so we can see the progress being made and so you don't have to answer the same questions 10 times a day!

I agree..

Alaister can you put out a list of the functions and features that you've DEFINITELY decided to include in Warrior Payments

Then maybe a second list for 'proposed' new functions, and keep that list updated.

That way members can see at a glance what is coming, and avoid requesting functions/ features that will already be included, or are planned inclusions.

Thanks

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superowid

10 years ago

1. Request: Add BITCOIN please into Warrior Payment Button ASAP. Thanks.

2. Also, is the freelancer's milestone payment system going to be adapted here for "Warrior for Hire" section?

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Ghoster

10 years ago

Looks interesting. Nice feature set, but time will tell.

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Craig Dawber

10 years ago

Exciting times ahead for warriors and the warrior payments.

I have to agree with what some of the more experienced marketers have said about any plans to ban other payment networks such as w+, JV zoo etc...I don't think it's right, as warriors we should have the choice about where and how we take payments.

I'm looking forward to see how this turns out.

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Lance K

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Craig Dawber

Exciting times ahead for warriors and the warrior payments.

I have to agree with what some of the more experienced marketers have said about any plans to ban other payment networks such as w+, JV zoo etc...I don't think it's right, as warriors we should have the choice about where and how we take payments.

I'm looking forward to see how this turns out.

They won't ban them. They don't need to.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

They won't ban them. They don't need to.

If you read all of Alaister's responses to the question of whether or not we will be able to choose the payment platform that we prefer, his answer is always:

At this time, you can
During this phase, you can

Meaning .....

No, you won't have a choice soon.

Except for the fact that JVZoo is not dependent on the WF and you can list there without WF involvement or WSO involvement and I imagine that a lot of people will consider doing just that.

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Lance K

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If you read all of Alaister's responses to the question of whether or not we will be able to choose the payment platform that we prefer, his answer is always:

At this time, you can
During this phase, you can

Meaning .....

No, you won't have a choice soon.

Except for the fact that JVZoo is not dependent on the WF and you can list there without WF involvement or WSO involvement and I imagine that a lot of people will consider doing just that.

I have a feeling that the folks at FL will come to their senses and just be happy to compete with the other platforms.

Sure, the idea of being the only game in town when it comes to WSOs is appealing to them. But I'm sure they'll see the potential downside is greater than the potential upside by making such a move. At the end of the day, FL is better off having viable competition in the payment processing world than in the forum world. There are a lot of people who have built pretty sizable lists here over the years and have a good deal of influence. To risk ticking them off just to own the WSO game outright would be penny wise and pound foolish.

I'm guessing the wording in Alaister's remarks has more to do with not closing any doors this early in the game. They surely learned that lesson with the price change for a War Room membership.

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JacobLivingstone

10 years ago

It would be good if there was the choice between paying the 2% OR a fixed fee similar to JVZoo or Warrior plus.

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Nic Oliver

10 years ago

I'd like an easy to find FAQ and updated features list page so we can see the progress being made and so you don't have to answer the same questions 10 times a day!

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Nic Oliver

I'd like an easy to find FAQ and updated features list page so we can see the progress being made and so you don't have to answer the same questions 10 times a day!

Hi Nic,

Yeh once we gather all the feedback and process it all, we'll be keeping everyone updated in the news section.

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Tom B

Banned 10 years ago

Just a quick note...

While the negatives of losing competition (other payment processors) is obvious, I also think having one system also has positives.

People keep complaining about the wso section. There seems to be a love/hate relationship there for many.

It isn't feasible to root out the problems, in that section, based on man power. Adding more people will end up making it more costly and very inefficient.

Now, when one has enough information, we tend to see patterns or trends which can be taken care of in a efficient way.

Running all the sales through one system may help in that way.

Freelancer has the experience to use that information so maybe, just maybe his could be a good thing if they decide to limit other systems. Please note, I'm not saying they will or won't.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Just a quick note...

While the negatives of losing competition (other payment processors) is obvious, I also think having one system also has positives.

People keep complaining about the wso section. There seems to be a love/hate relationship there for many.

It isn't feasible to root out the problems, in that section, based on man power. Adding more people will end up making it more costly and very inefficient.

Now, when one has enough information, we tend to see patterns or trends which can be taken care of in a efficient way.

Running all the sales through one system may help in that way.

Freelancer has the experience to use that information so maybe, just maybe his could be a good thing if they decide to limit other systems. Please note, I'm not saying they will or won't.

It may help or it may not, but one thing people will not tolerate, is having their right to choose being taken away. One thing that is for sure, they will choose to take their business elsewhere. It is always better to beat the competition, and not force people into using something they don't want. It could get ugly real fast.

Originally Posted by Alaister

No "secret handshake". We'll be choosing the products that we feel are most suitable and will provide the most value to the community.

Why don't I believe this, I plugged this into the Google translator and this is what it said

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Alex,

they will choose to take their business elsewhere.

Some would, certainly. And that may be an outcome Freelancer is willing to accept in return for what they may expect to be larger revenues.

A lot of this depends on the long-term strategy, which we don't know. If the goal is to make the WSO section more mainstream in the industry and get rid of the crazy stuff, the potential for new sellers with less over-hyped pitches could make losing some of the current sellers a good choice for them.

You already know my views on the income promises...

There is an ocean of people out there who would love to access this audience if they could do so without being associated with the over-the-top claims.

Paul
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Tom B

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

It may help or it may not, but one thing people will not tolerate, is having their right to choose being taken away. One thing that is for sure, they will choose to take their business elsewhere. It is always better to beat the competition, and not force people into using something they don't want. It could get ugly real fast.

Doubtful. If people weren't getting value from the wso section, they wouldn't be selling there. Most will continue to do so regardless if they have selling platforms limited. Rightly so since they should be treating this as a business.

That is the common advice thrown around here.

Decisions shouldn't be based on emotional responses. If this new service limits your business to the point it isn't advantageous to sell here, then people should sell somewhere else. If it doesn't, well, those people would be foolish to stop selling here just because they got upset.

As business owners, we do what is right for our customers and our business. It could be using Paypal as a payment processor when we don't care for them or using other platforms. These things are pretty trivial as long as they don't interfere with our ability to attract and service our customers.

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travlinguy

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

It may help or it may not, but one thing people will not tolerate, is having their right to choose being taken away. One thing that is for sure, they will choose to take their business elsewhere. It is always better to beat the competition, and not force people into using something they don't want. It could get ugly real fast.

Why don't I believe this, I plugged this into the Google translator and this is what it said

I agree with you in spirit. However, we've had the option to choose in the past but it wan't a right. It was an option. This place isn't and never was a democracy. The owners can do whatever they want, regardless of how shortsighted and self defeating it may be.

[ 1 ] Thanks

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gabibeowulf

10 years ago

Noticed GetResponse is missing from the autoresponder list.

I don't really like that offering free WSOs would be off the table. Things like building a prelaunch list would then become harder.

+1 for the Payoneer option. It would be nice not having to rely solely on Paypal.

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barbling

10 years ago

Interesting updates indeed.

I know a number of vendors will put up JVzoo/W+ buttons off the forum (ie, hosted standalone pages). So I doubt JVzoo/W+ would be abandoned.

Free WSOs are great for building a mailing list and getting folks into deeper/wider sales funnels as well, shame they are going away.

Hmmm. Will there also be a price limit? ie, One can easily change 2 cents for their free WSO or some such thing....

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Lance K

10 years ago

Originally Posted by barbling

Interesting updates indeed.

I know a number of vendors will put up JVzoo/W+ buttons off the forum (ie, hosted standalone pages). So I doubt JVzoo/W+ would be abandoned.

Free WSOs are great for building a mailing list and getting folks into deeper/wider sales funnels as well, shame they are going away.

Hmmm. Will there also be a price limit? ie, One can easily change 2 cents for their free WSO or some such thing....

Or offer a coupon code that makes their paid WSO free.

If WP doesn't want to allow free WSOs because they'll miss out on their 2%, they could always charge a flat fee per download of the free offer.

If they just want to clean up the WSO section and not include free offers, well I guess that's up to them. It'll take some getting used to, but it might be a good change in the end. Eventually, the organic traffic to the WSO section will almost exclusively be buyer traffic.

As for nobody going into the Classified Ad section...they will if they figure out that's where to go to get free WSOs. People after free beer always find the party.

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mbacak 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

People after free beer always find the party.

hahahahah... :-)

Hate to change the subject, but I'm
going to have to swipe that line.
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- Lance K 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mbacak
  
  hahahahah... :-)
  
  Hate to change the subject, but I'm
  going to have to swipe that line.
  
  Sounds good. I owe you a few swipes.
  
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IM Lover

10 years ago

Here is what I think about it: http://www.warriorforum.com/suggesti...ml#post9376100

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Paleochora

10 years ago

ATTENTION WSO VENDORS:

If you care about your affiliates you will ignore the subtle hint in this instruction that I found on the new WSO payments set up:

Recommended Each day we'll choose a Warrior Daily Deal to promote. You can select the commission Warrior Forum will receive if your product is selected. We recommend commission of over 80%

Just leave that slider alone. Give the WF just the same commission as your affiliates or you are simply short changing them.

They can "recommend" all they like but take no notice of the extortion attempt. Bit cheeky, that, IMO

And... I don't like the fact that I can't find where to start a thread without going through this new system from the WSO forum.

Not impressed at all.

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IMMer1975

10 years ago

Originally Posted by aire

What do you guys think of this new tool?

http://WarriorPayments.com

I love competition as this will only benefit all of us, whether I use warriorpayments or any of the others. I've recently had a rather frustrating experience with one of the other platforms (far too long for approval due to a buggy workflow). So competition means they'll all have to improve.

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PPC-Coach

10 years ago

I like the idea of a payment system integrated and the reviews thing is neat too. Sure it can be gamed but really anything can and these guys have a lot of experience in how to handle fraudulent reviews.

One question though, can I get the secret handshake for the wso of the day?

For the other payment processors it's the old boys club that gets it every time regardless of product quality. I'm hoping that with the new payment system it will be a more even playing field and not based on who you got drunk with at the last meet up.

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by PPC-Coach

I like the idea of a payment system integrated and the reviews thing is neat too. Sure it can be gamed but really anything can and these guys have a lot of experience in how to handle fraudulent reviews.

One question though, can I get the secret handshake for the wso of the day?

For the other payment processors it's the old boys club that gets it every time regardless of product quality. I'm hoping that with the new payment system it will be a more even playing field and not based on who you got drunk with at the last meet up.

No "secret handshake". We'll be choosing the products that we feel are most suitable and will provide the most value to the community.

Thanks

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Net66

10 years ago

I think the only problem with this system is it's clearly not even half finished, no consideration of what WSO sellers actually want. Freelancer should have just gone to Mike Lantz and asked if he wanted to sell WarriorPlus!

Limited auto responder integration, no recurring payment products, no oto handling, no external integration (IPN type for member scripts and license systems).

It just looks like it's been rushed out in a desperate move to coin in some more cash.

Andy

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Karen Blundell

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Net66

I think the only problem with this system is it's clearly not even half finished, no consideration of what WSO sellers actually want. Freelancer should have just gone to Mike Lantz and asked if he wanted to sell WarriorPlus!

Limited auto responder integration, no recurring payment products, no oto handling, no external integration (IPN type for member scripts and license systems).

It just looks like it's been rushed out in a desperate move to coin in some more cash.

Andy

not to mention that I get a security warning using Firefox when logging in using my Warrior forum credentials. That stopped me cold from even checking out the system.

How do I opt out of WarriorPayments.com but still keep my Warriorforum.com long-standing membership? Frankly, I don't like that my information was migrated over to a new website without my permission.

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Alaister 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Net66

Limited auto responder integration, no recurring payment products, no oto handling, no external integration (IPN type for member scripts and license systems).

I appreciate your feedback. This is all coming.
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UserNewhere

10 years ago

Hello - I just was wondering what kind of products can be sold in the Warrior Payments (WSO)?

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Chri5123

10 years ago

My thoughts are that it is a natural step for the Warrior forum. I am really surprised it has never happened before.

It is a brand new system so there will no doubt be a lot of niggles and teething problems - I remember WSO Pro took a while but has since become a really good system.

Will be interesting to watch it progress - but personally i like the initiative - it will be a hell of a challenge but be interesting to see what changes and upgrades they put in place.

One of the first has to be an upsell option!

Good Luck guys!

All the best,

Chris Jones

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spearce000

10 years ago

I wonder how long it will be before you HAVE to use this when you post a WSO.

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KomaciMG

10 years ago

Originally Posted by aire

WF announced the release of Warrior Payments.
I am really excited. Whats going to happen to JVzoo. All my products there.

What do you guys think of this new tool?

http://WarriorPayments.com

I am excited to see this too. Good timing indeed. We have a bunch of new products coming out. JVzoo to us seemed out of business. We tried to contact them I would say around 7 times. Nothing. I'm signing up now.

In regards to your products: simply duplicate out your sales site to a new domain and swap out the buttons. (backup your site (assuming WordPress?) and restore it to a new domain, reconnect the database.) That way you can keep your JVzoo listings.

You don't need to worry about duplicate content issues for your copied out site to take advantage of the affiliate network through WarriorPayments. Or take advantage of this opportunity, a momentum spark maybe, to create a new keyword focused, silo structured, with good on page SEO website and start backlinking with few quality backlinks to generate a potential new traffic source, source of sales.

Also use the new site to test out different landing pages, offers to build your list, sales letter elements, video sales letters... who knows maybe you could start converting profitably with paid traffic too.

Chris K

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wentzco

10 years ago

Competition is always good & I'm sure there will many improvements added based on feedback.

Regarding comments about no one visiting the classifieds... that just isn't the case. If that will be future home of free WSOs (hope so) then that will just increase more views to classified ad posts.

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thedanbrown

10 years ago

Warrior Payments is shaping up to be a competitor for sure. I wouldn't worry about your products in JVZoo though because it's not going anywhere.

We will see how it shapes up considering Freelancer is their main business.

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JR Lang

10 years ago

I just did a test run through the new system and there is NO way to add an OTO or set up a sales funnel???

If that's the case I can never use this system, and I know others will feel the same way.

This thing does look rushed, what about Getresponse will it be included? Can't use it without that either.

Can a mod please answer the questions being asked here, no sales funnel??

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mbacak

10 years ago

Originally Posted by JR Lang

I just did a test run through the new system and there is NO way to add an OTO or set up a sales funnel???

If that's the case I can never use this system, and I know others will feel the same way.

This thing does look rushed, what about Getresponse will it be included? Can't use it without that either.

Can a mod please answer the questions being asked here, no sales funnel??

I think these were all answered here or in another thread.

UPDATE: Just found them on another thread:

Originally Posted by winebaer

Thanks for the update and congrats on the big announcement. Despite some of the negative feedback it looks like you guys have a slick looking interface, and some great additional opportunities for the IM crowd.

In looking at the stream comments, I saw three themes among the questions:

1) OTO integration
2) Get Response integration
3) Will this change anything with pricing on posting an offer thread?

I know you said on the webinar that the fir two were things you were hoping to add soon... as the are BOTH integral to so many marketers' business models, could you possibly give some sort of anticipated timeline?

Thanks again!

Originally Posted by Alaister

Yes these are two features we are looking to implement.

Originally Posted by Alaister

We'll be meeting as a team and going through everyone's feedback in order to prioritize what we're working on.

3) This doesn't change the WSO approval fee right now.

P.S. I'm not a mod - just trying to help ya :-)

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Ethiccash

10 years ago

People are reluctant to change… but in 6 months from now, no one will remember this thread. Everyone in the forum will use their payment and affiliate systems, and it will be obvious. They don't really have to ban other networks as people won't use them anymore when posting WSOs. Although this would make sense not to have people use 3rd party systems when they have their own system.

It's not ready yet, FL has no idea what the market is, nor what features are required, but they will just put 10 people on it and get a robust platform in no time. Too bad they have no idea what they're doing, and their questions and follow-up comments regarding "what features do you need" and then "great suggestion, we'll do it" are simply pathetics.

So, instead of being so defensive (what exactly do people have to protect???), just get used to it, and see that in a few months from now you'll be glad (at least those relying on the WF to make some cash).

The ice on the cake being the hope for getting "deal of the day" and making 1000 sales (at least at the beginning, until people notice that 99% of WSOs are not worth a deal of the day badge).

At one point in the past WF was private, and could not be publically mentioned. Like a sect. This was part of the WF myth. Of course this was stupid, and it changed to a public forum. People could not believe such a change was possible and thought their sould would probably instantly burn if they shared a link to the forum! Then, they started to charge to access parts of it, to list offers… and all of sudden it became a business instead of a closed group of internet marketers.

Just live your life and do what you have to do instead of being worried of such changes. They're not your responsability. Your responsability is to create product and market them, not rely on the big forum to let you do what you think is normal… When things change, there's always an opportunity to make the best of it, or there's the average behavior, the norm, which consists in rejecting all changes...

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Luke Dennison

10 years ago

Can vendors get paid into our banks?

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Mark Hess

10 years ago

I like the integration into the forum. It appears that all the 'bones' are there, it shouldn't be long before a ton of features are added. It has a slick UI.

The feedback system is an awful idea if you're a vendor or affiliate. So if you're trying to attract more vendors, there's no way in hell most would go for that.

You can already see this playing out and the system is barely 24 hours old. This one guy now has a 50% reputation. Why? the first review was 5 stars, the second was 0. The guy who left the 0, didn't get his download: 2014-07-22_1459 - MarkHess's library

Now imagine that multiplied by 100 if the vendor accidently sets something up wrong when creating their product in the system.

Vendors already have to deal with trolls, answering support questions, denying people review copies, disclosing OTO's, and a multitude of other things on their thread. Then they have to worry about their 'reputation' within the sales system itself.

So when 'memakemoneyucan2' who has absolutely nothing to lose and nothing better to do, he can not only pollute your thread with nonsense affecting your sales after refunding the product but also can now factor into your 'reputation'.

I'm not interested in losing sales as an affiliate (or vendor) because '2sexy4u1989' can't get one-on-one coaching for a $9.00 product so he's pissed, or he doesn't like the sales funnel, or he ate a bad burrito just before ordering and takes it out on the vendor, or he doesn't like the style of font the vendor uses in the PDF.

So '2sexy4u1989' leaves a 0 star review.

I mail my list, someone buys. They see '2sexy4u1989's review and immedietly go into the product with a jaded, bad attitude later causing them to refund.

Because wouldn't everyone go into a product with a poor mindset after handing over money only to find out that what you're getting may not be what the vendor said on the sales page? (even though the review is from a random anonymous person) it still plants that seed of doubt. You go in more skeptical.

Sometimes all it takes is one little thing to cause people to refund. There's no reason to contribute to refund justification and the review system will do just that.

This is just one more thing that vendors have to babysit and worry about.

And saying "well if you had a quality product, you don't have anything to worry about"...

That's B.S., anyone who does any type of sales volume knows, it doesn't matter how good the product is, you will still get plenty of "those people" especially in this niche. This niche attracts them like crazy.

And what vendor is going to want to deal with this feedback stuff on a self-hosted launch outside the forum?
Just my 2 cents

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Shane N

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Hess

... Actually JVZoo and W+ vendors can still use the Classified Section to get all the perks of the forum...

Actually, people can still use WarriorPlus (W+) and other platforms to post WSOs, they just need to use this link: http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Originally Posted by Mark Hess

With W+ and JVZoo getting kicked off the WSO side of things, that's Freelancers choice and it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Alaister said this:

Originally Posted by Alaister

We're not banning the use of any network.

So no one is getting "kicked off the WSO side of things" as far as I can tell...

Best,
Shane

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Mark Hess

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Shane N

Actually, people can still use WarriorPlus (W+) and other platforms to post WSOs, they just need to use this link: http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Also, Alaister said:

So no one is getting "kicked off the WSO side of things" as far as I can tell...

Best,
Shane

Ok, so I missed a few prior posts

... I edited mine to exclude that part.

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brutecky

10 years ago

I had a look at the new WF system. My first impression is that its FAR to basic to be even close to viable at this point.Heck you cant even set up a sales funnel from what I can see.

My second impression was that there is NO support. The Help / FAQ leads to freelancer.com's support.

My third thought was that there are no affiliates using this, so using this could be a big disadvantage. Getting affiliates to promo for you is hard enough, but no I have to convince them to sign up for this very basic and new platform as well?

I also noticed that they have there own version of POTD. So they will be jacking our list just like W+ and JVZoo does? Cant tell because they dont have a FAQ up. Really who releases something without the support / FAQ being ready?

From what I can tell the only advantage here is the lower transaction fee, with the huge disadvantages of it being a poor system (at this point) and of having no affiliates using it. I dont see any reason to use it just yet.

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mattbarrie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by brutecky

I had a look at the new WF system. My first impression is that its FAR to basic to be even close to viable at this point.Heck you cant even set up a sales funnel from what I can see.

My second impression was that there is NO support. The Help / FAQ leads to freelancer.com's support.

My third thought was that there are no affiliates using this, so using this could be a big disadvantage. Getting affiliates to promo for you is hard enough, but no I have to convince them to sign up for this very basic and new platform as well?

I also noticed that they have there own version of POTD. So they will be jacking our list just like W+ and JVZoo does? Cant tell because they dont have a FAQ up. Really who releases something without the support / FAQ being ready?

From what I can tell the only advantage here is the lower transaction fee, with the huge disadvantages of it being a poor system (at this point) and of having no affiliates using it. I dont see any reason to use it just yet.

Hi Brutecky

Thanks for the feedback.

It's the first release of the product, we value any feedback for critical features you think are missing because we have a large team here rapidly innovating on the product. We want this to be the best payment system possible, designed by WARRIORS for WARRIORS.

In regards to the support system, we cut it over to our support desk that we use for Freelancer and have set up separate queues. We did this because we have over 300 people in support 24x7x365 on that system in 12 languages and it was the same software that was running for warriorforumsupport.com (kayako). We'll put a bit of Warrior branding on it if you come from the Warrior site, so it looks a bit better. However we have a huge support team there.

Regards
Matt

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lotsofsnow

10 years ago

Will the Warrior payments platform be open for other sites?

I mean can I take the WF pay button and put it on a standalone page?

These are more rhetorical questions as the current answer is no but what about in the future?

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RichardWing

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hpgoodboy

Will the Warrior payments platform be open for other sites?

I mean can I take the WF pay button and put it on a standalone page?

These are more rhetorical questions as the current answer is no but what about in the future?

They said in the live feed that you can sell off wso on your own sales page and site right now.

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hpgoodboy

Will the Warrior payments platform be open for other sites?

I mean can I take the WF pay button and put it on a standalone page?

These are more rhetorical questions as the current answer is no but what about in the future?

The Warrior Payments button can be placed anywhere right now. You can embed the button on your own self hosted sales page or website.

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smaddoxjr

10 years ago

The idea behind is great. The rate's look very reasonable. Will try it out in the future.

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Nail Yener

10 years ago

I think putting customer reviews on the sales page would be better. No point having them on another page. Doesn't seem technically impossible.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

That's most likely what is going to happen. Example below.

In the first example, a buyer posted 1.0 feedback on a $1.50 WSO. His feedback: "it should be free."

It's possible it should be free and it's possible it shouldn't be a product at all, but that feedback helps no one make a decision on whether or not to go all out and spend $1.50. No details. That's not feedback ... that's a sarcastic remark.

Second example: Looks like a buyer thinks it's an awesome product, giving it a full 5.0 rating. Then some assmonkey comes along and gives it a 0 rating because he believes he didn't get a download link yet. Did he tell the seller he has a problem? Who knows. That is not feedback on the product. That is a glitch that probably was temporary and probably was taken care of.

How long before they start selling WF likes, like they do with Facebook and fake Twitter followers

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Brian,This is something that would concern me if I were involved in the process. Having the entity that approves and moderates offers also taking a financial interest in the success of specific offers.

What are they going to do if, as has happened with a few WSOTDs, they promote something and the mods find out there's a problem with it?

The example that springs immediately to mind is the case where Mike Lantz sent a WSOTD email for an offer and I discovered the seller was using a faked income screenshot. (When I showed her how I knew it was faked, she admitted it.)

Will moderators employed by a company that has a stake in the success of that promotion be willing/able to do anything about such a situation when it arises? Even assuming they are, will people perceive there to be a conflict? Will people whose incomes depend on the forum be willing/able to separate the rules from their fear of being fired over decisions that cost the company money?

Especially problematic if they're getting a cut of all sales for one processor. Any active moderation that isn't in the favor of the seller and for which the seller uses another payment processing/affiliate platform is going to create complaints about favoritism.

And when someone uses WarriorPayments and a customer has a complaint removed for cause (swearing, personal attacks), it's going to give rise to the usual noise about favoring the sellers at the expense of buyers.

Paul

One thing that is going to happen no matter what, is conspiracy theories will pop up alot.

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kindsvater 10 years ago

I am getting a lot of affiliate requests, some accepted and others I am not responding to without wanting to send them a rejection email. This is a lesson W+ learned when it had a similar setup and then had to make changes.

Suggestion: The list of pending affiliate requests can get unruly, especially with reasons for not rejecting someone. (Example, waiting to see if a new user is a bot or valued forum contributor.) The list needs to be sortable, or at least the most recent request needs to be at the top. Not the first request.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Some would, certainly. And that may be an outcome Freelancer is willing to accept in return for what they may expect to be larger revenues.

I was thinking the same thing Paul, but then I gave it some thought and the people it could chase away are the ones who bring in the most sales. I don't know the percentages, but I'm pretty sure a small percent (maybe in the single digit) make more sales then the rest combined.

Piss them off and you can kiss making 2% off their sales goodbye. I don't think the new system would stop them from using the WP, but they are stubborn bunch, take away their options and they will leave.

We have to remember that most of the biggest sellers here on the WF already get lots of love from W+ and JVZ in the form of WSO's of the day.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Alex,

You're probably right on the numbers. A few of those big sellers would stay, just because the money is there. As long as the features exist to do what they need to do, they may not care.

That said, the potential for new sellers dwarfs what exists in that section now. The key is getting them to use it.

They'll need other ways to accept payments, though. I don't see a lot of the bigger players doing an "all Paypal, all the time" set-up.

Paul

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Alex,

You're probably right on the numbers. A few of those big sellers would stay, just because the money is there. As long as the features exist to do what they need to do, they may not care.

That said, the potential for new sellers dwarfs what exists in that section now. The key is getting them to use it.

They'll need other ways to accept payments, though. I don't see a lot of the bigger players doing an "all Paypal, all the time" set-up.

Paul

Guess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out. I have no dog in this fight, but do know how stubborn warriors can be. I've always wanted the WF to come out with their own system, but that was to give us more choices.

I have no problem if they decide to ban w+ or JVZ, I don't think anybody has a right to tell them what to go with their business, but I do wonder if that would be a good move. JVZ and w+ have shown alot of love to these big sellers, so we'll see if these big sellers can ignore that.

And I will usually ask the delayed payment vendor to kindly change my payments to instant or I can't promote them.

Some people can do that, but most can't. If people know you have a great rep as an affiliate, then they will make the switch right away. Just because you can request an instant commission, doesn't mean everyone else can or should

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Ryan Jericho

Banned 10 years ago

Should be a button 'Report Review' that goes directly to the staff to review. Obviously stating they didnt get it, Is Abuse of the system, they should get a warning and repeated offences should result in a ban from being able to leave reviews.

Just noticed another on someone elses profile as well.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Should be a button 'Report Review' that goes directly to the staff to review

If that happens it will get abused also, every bad review will be reported

I think the seller should have sold the products for more money. Selling a product for $1.50 make's it easier for people with bad intentions to leave bad reveiws, and it also gives the impression that it must be a bad product, since it's being sold for cheap.

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GarrieWilson

10 years ago

For reviews:

1. Don't allow people to post them until a certain time has passed.
2. Let users click helpful/not on reviews like Amazon does.
3. Let sellers reply like eBay does.
4. Sellers should be able to review buyers.

You could/should have the reviews on the profile pages.

For the payment gateway:

Have an option so only members can buy. Maybe even only ones who have been members for x time.

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kindsvater 10 years ago

I can talk about it from first-hand! I just had a customer who gave me a full 0.0!

Sometimes we have to step back and remember who many of the buyers / forum users are. Teenagers. People with limited skills around the world. People with limited understanding of English. The "desperate" who cannot make it in the physical world, for many reasons, hopeful things will be different online.

It's only day 1. Things will be different down the road after all this is digested. One possibility with a rating system is a statistical norming where, for instance, a percentage of the highest and lowest reviews are removed. This helps reduce the impact of a seller buying perfect reviews, and also the laughable examples at the other end already seen in the pictures on this thread.

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LiftMyRank

10 years ago

I too fear that in the nearby future we're all going to be forced to use warrior payments or nothing else as Alaister was quoted as saying "We're not banning the use of any network at this point",

I've been a WSO seller for several years and my current WSO has over 159,000 views and I have no desire (or margin) for affiliates and therefore use my own paypal button nor do I have any desire to be doubled dipped on, if this changes I will have to jump ship unfortunately...

Edit: nor do I want somebody else controlling my refunds, my service costs me money to run so refunds hurt a lot, buyers quickly catch drift of this and abuse the heck out of it, this is why I'll never deal on clickbank and i know a lot of other IMers won't either due to this reason, the same product controlled by me gets 2% refund rate but on clickbank gets 17% refund rate, hurts everybody except the dodgy buyer, plus I hope my buyers won't automatically be signed up to get blasted with "deal of the day" affiliate links like W+ does..

To be honest I'm failing to see the benefits to WSO sellers who've driven a LOT of traffic to this forum over the years, but the immediate benefits to freelancer are clear as day

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

In regards to reviews, the forum is REALLY exposing itself legally by allowing them as a function of their system, especially when those who can leave reviews can do so using alias's.

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Tim_Carter

10 years ago

So does this stop wso bumping? I hope so. Lets get some fresh stuff on the front page and give other people a chance. Will keep things on page one longer too if things have to run their normal course.

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Highway55

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Tim_Carter

So does this stop wso bumping? I hope so. Lets get some fresh stuff on the front page and give other people a chance. Will keep things on page one longer too if things have to run their normal course.

Why should a good product that's selling stopped getting bumped? It pays for itself. If you have a great product that gets pushed off the first page, wouldn't you want to bump it back in front of people again?

The system seems fair in that regard. Why change it?

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JonHascue

10 years ago

Totally agree. You may not like it that it moves off page 1 so fast, but you get and have the right to pay again(bump) to get in front of eyes again. If the product is garbage, it won't pay to do it, but good products need to be available or others to see, and it will pay for itself to do so.

Most, well, smart, marketers will figure out crap from worth it. Nobody buying? It won't be there for long. Can't afford to be there.

Originally Posted by Highway55

Why should a good product that's selling stopped getting bumped? It pays for itself. If you have a great product that gets pushed off the first page, wouldn't you want to bump it back in front of people again?

The system seems fair in that regard. Why change it?

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Nic Oliver

10 years ago

One of the big hassles with Amazon's review system is that people pay for reviews or game the system by lining up all of their friends to post a 5 star review on launch day.

Until you can find a way a round that (and Amazon has been trying for along time without success), I suggest you nuke the option and spend your time making WP a more profitable experience for seller, affiliate and buyer.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Nic,

I’m a little confused. If the changes being discussed get rid of the biggest chunk of the problem of fake reviews and trolls, and they would, why should they not be implemented?

Getting rid of all possible sources of fake or engineered reviews and/or troll attacks is impossible. That shouldn’t stop you from getting rid of the ones you can prevent.

Paul

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Nic,

I'm a little confused. If the changes being discussed get rid of the biggest chunk of the problem of fake reviews and trolls, and they would, why should they not be implemented?

Getting rid of all possible sources of fake or engineered reviews and/or troll attacks is impossible. That shouldn't stop you from getting rid of the ones you can prevent.

Paul

How is a system that does this http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post9378536 (see screenshots) getting rid of fakes and trolls. These may be real buyers but the harm done to the seller's reputations, at least with a low reputation number, is done for no good reason. These aren't reviews, but they are counted in the total anyway, and trust me when I say that getting reviews removed by freelancer, like Elance will be impossible or next to. Once some jackass does this in that system, it is written in stone.

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Mark Hess

10 years ago

[DELETED]

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Alaister

10 years ago

Yeh the below are all good points. This is something we saw and are working on a way where we can deal with this misuse of the reviews system. Ryan's idea of having a report button which is then dealt with by staff is a good idea, although we'll only be deleting reviews from people who have not consumed the product like the one below or blatant abuse of the review system.

We're also going to be making it clearer as to what reviews should and that products should only be reviewed after the item has been properly read or used.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

That's most likely what is going to happen. Example below.

In the first example, a buyer posted 1.0 feedback on a $1.50 WSO. His feedback: "it should be free."

It's possible it should be free and it's possible it shouldn't be a product at all, but that feedback helps no one make a decision on whether or not to go all out and spend $1.50. No details. That's not feedback ... that's a sarcastic remark.

Second example: Looks like a buyer thinks it's an awesome product, giving it a full 5.0 rating. Then some assmonkey comes along and gives it a 0 rating because he believes he didn't get a download link yet. Did he tell the seller he has a problem? Who knows. That is not feedback on the product. That is a glitch that probably was temporary and probably was taken care of.

Originally Posted by CPAMasterX

I can talk about it from first-hand! I just had a customer who gave me a full 0.0!

I am not too sure what to say about it... He didn't even check the product (at least he was honest with it...) and not even contacted with me, I went through all my emails (support, personal), membership forum, checked my WF PMs, no questions received!

...So I gave up! Fortunately, I have real feedbacks in my sales thread, so people can make decision based on those!

Imho, this rating system could only work if you set some criterias, so only known and trusted people can vote! This could avoid every misuse and the ratings would be something that help people to make decision!

It is kinda disturbing and as I see I am not alone with it!

P.S.: Even worse that I can't even click on his profile to contact him!

Bests,
CPAMasterX

Originally Posted by Ryan Jericho

Should be a button 'Report Review' that goes directly to the staff to review. Obviously stating they didnt get it, Is Abuse of the system, they should get a warning and repeated offences should result in a ban from being able to leave reviews.

Just noticed another on someone elses profile as well.

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JR Lang 10 years ago

Alistair is asking for feedback on this system here, http://www.warriorforum.com/suggesti...ggestions.html

I added my list, I think if many of us do, maybe they will listen.
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UserNewhere

10 years ago

I asked this before but got no answer.......I just was wondering what kind of products can be sold in the Warrior Payments (WSO)?

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JR Lang

10 years ago

Originally Posted by UserNewhere

I asked this before but got no answer.......I just was wondering what kind of products can be sold in the Warrior Payments (WSO)?

Any type of products really, software, services, link building, article writing, PLR packs, How To Guides, anything related to Internet Marketing for marketers.

You should look through the thread linked below, that is the WSO sales thread and you will see what people are selling.

Warrior Special Offers

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UserNewhere

10 years ago

Originally Posted by JR Lang

Any type of products really, software, services, link building, article writing, PLR packs, How To Guides, anything related to Internet Marketing for marketers.

You should look through the thread linked below, that is the WSO sales thread and you will see what people are selling.

Warrior Special Offers

What about 3D Products? Can you sell those on WSO?

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WillR

10 years ago

1. I take it from the lack of definite answer that the plan is most certainly to eventually get rid of the other affiliate platforms. I think blind freddy can see that is what will be happening. So I am curious as to what then happens with WSO offers that have been running for months (even years) on other affiliate networks? I wonder if we will then be forced to take payment through WP? I sure hope not.

2. The IM industry is very much guided by what a small group of people at the very top are doing. All you need to do is look at the last 10 years and you'll see every single advancement or change that was made in our industry was basically orchestrated by some or all of the top marketers in the industry.

For that reason you will have a tough job selling people into the idea of a new affiliate platform. The sellers that were pulling in majority of the sales in the WSO forum the last few years have nearly all gone in preference of self-hosted launches. So getting them back will be very difficult -- i'd say almost impossible. And if they don't come back then all of their followers don't either.

Take a look at Deal Guardian for example. They put a ton of time and money into that affiliate platform and it also had all these wizz bang features like the reviews, etc, and everyone was very excited when it was first announced. But it has simply failed to take off like they expected. Why? Because the top marketers in the industry decided they were fine to stay and support JVZoo. They didn't move and so the industry didn't move and thus Deal Guardian didn't fly off as expected.

What is also funny is that JVZoo has (if I'm correct) been a major sponsor of the Warrior Forum Live event held each year. And that group of top marketers is all very tight and very supportive of one another and thus the support that JVZoo currently has and will continue to have. So I wonder what next years Warrior Live Event will be like if the other platforms are squeezed out of the forum... it may be an empty room.

It will be really interesting to see how this one plays out. I'm getting some popcorn.

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brutecky

10 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

1. I take it from the lack of definite answer that the plan is most certainly to eventually get rid of the other affiliate platforms. I think blind freddy can see that is what will be happening. So I am curious as to what then happens with WSO offers that have been running for months (even years) on other affiliate networks? I wonder if we will then be forced to take payment through WP? I sure hope not.

2. The IM industry is very much guided by what a small group of people at the very top are doing. All you need to do is look at the last 10 years and you'll see every single advancement or change that was made in our industry was basically orchestrated by some or all of the top marketers in the industry.

For that reason you will have a tough job selling people into the idea of a new affiliate platform. The sellers that were pulling in majority of the sales in the WSO forum the last few years have nearly all gone in preference of self-hosted launches. So getting them back will be very difficult -- i'd say almost impossible. And if they don't come back then all of their followers don't either.

Take a look at Deal Guardian for example. They put a ton of time and money into that affiliate platform and it also had all these wizz bang features like the reviews, etc, and everyone was very excited when it was first announced. But it has simply failed to take off like they expected. Why? Because the top marketers in the industry decided they were fine to stay and support JVZoo. They didn't move and so the industry didn't move and thus Deal Guardian didn't fly off as expected.

What is also funny is that JVZoo has (if I'm correct) been a major sponsor of the Warrior Forum Live event held each year. And that group of top marketers is all very tight and very supportive of one another and thus the support that JVZoo currently has and will continue to have. So I wonder what next years Warrior Live Event will be like if the other platforms are squeezed out of the forum... it may be an empty room.

It will be really interesting to see how this one plays out. I'm getting some popcorn.

In the end all of this, and all of the things that Freelance is doing since they bought the WF is the result of one thing that seems apparent. Freelancer.com (and probably Alister as well) really seem to have no experience in this business. They honestly dont seem to know what they are doing and are to full of themselves to accept that. If they where smart they would have hired a very experienced marketer as a consult from day one. They need to understand that there is more to being an expert in this business than spending a bunch of money on a forum.

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Tom B

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by brutecky

In the end all of this, and all of the things that Freelance is doing since they bought the WF is the result of one thing that seems apparent. Freelancer.com (and probably Alister as well) really seem to have no experience in this business. They honestly dont seem to know what they are doing and are to full of themselves to accept that. If they where smart they would have hired a very experienced marketer as a consult from day one. They need to understand that there is more to being an expert in this business than spending a bunch of money on a forum.

Yeah, man, they are really full of themselves. That's why they asked for feedback on pretty much everything so far.

Dude, you have been the most vocally negative person in these types of threads.

We get it, you don't like Freelancer. You may not be aware but you don't need to stay here if you don't like it.

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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

2. The IM industry is very much guided by what a small group of people at the very top are doing. All you need to do is look at the last 10 years and you'll see every single advancement or change that was made in our industry was basically orchestrated by some or all of the top marketers in the industry.

Maybe thats the problem with IM and IM info products (although I don't think its true. technology has been responsible for most changes). Anyway in defense of alastaire and company - Their track record so far has been to be very responsive to the community so maybe its too soon to be projecting what will be the case. It may well be that from a coding standpoint it was just easier to set it up the way it is. It takes more to code in additional options than just having one

I just don't know that any company worth its sauce should wave the red flag and say we have competitors so we should stay out of a market but I do agree choice is better.

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bgean

10 years ago

It's a nice addition, but as a seller I would still like the option of where I add my product for sale.This means if I want to list it with JVZoo and sell it from the WSO - I should still be able to do that.

Giving me Warrior Payments is great, but don't force me to conform to the Warrior Payments system. I'm already paying $20 to offer the WSO.

Thanks!

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SticKer

10 years ago

They have just launched the system so I feel we should give them some time and I hope they are listening to the feedback and improve the system in the interest of all.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

I explained up-thread how it would stop most of those.

As far as the comments affecting someone's rating, that's something you have to rely on the intelligence of the members to interpret. They're a pretty smart crowd, by and large. These folks certainly have the brains to understand the difference between a 2-comment rating and something based on dozens or hundreds or thousands of paying customers.

If a star system is put in place, it should show the number of comments next to the average. Beyond that, folks will figure it out pretty quickly.

Thought: Don't display any ratings at all until there are X comments. X being at least 10, I should think.

Paul

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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

They're a pretty smart crowd, by and large.

Based on some of the offers bought in droves I beg to differ

These folks certainly have the brains to understand the difference between a 2-comment rating and something based on dozens or hundreds or thousands of paying customers.

The problem is if you get those kind of ratings early in the process and you don't have a big launch you will never get the numbers to offset that bad start.

I mean once people start to rely on the reviews. On the other hand its really no different than what could happen on open threads. At least this way you can weed some of the non buyers out and if your product charges a real enough price weed out some of the kiddies as well.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Based on some of the offers bought in droves I beg to differ

:

The problem is if you get those kind of ratings early in the process and you don't have a big launch you will never get the numbers to offset that bad start.

I mean once people start to rely on the reviews. On the other hand its really no different than what could happen on open threads. At least this way you can weed some of the non buyers out and if your product charges a real enough price weed out some of the kiddies as well.

I agree. I've worked with sites with ratings like that and it is ridiculous the latitude that the buyers are given to destroy reputations in a keystroke. Freelance sites love this system and are completely blind and inflexible to the idea that someone would deliberately harm your reputation for reasons other than whether or not them like a product.

As for the intelligence of the "crowd," I see waves and waves of 2014 signups with little command of the English language and nothing to indicate that they're "a pretty smart crowd." As a result, I see fewer meaningful conversations going on in the main forums.

In the long run, it doesn't matter to me what they do, because I don't feel that they're in it for the long run. Maximize the monetization of the forum and it's more attractive in that big payday when you decide to sell off freelancer and it's assets.

Either way, the Internet is a big place and I will never use a payment system that doesn't fit my criteria for a payment system, and that would include Delayed Payments for affiliates, complete control over my own refunds and other features that are up to par with the competition and pricing that is fair and reasonable. Right now they're trying to compete on price, but as soon as they eliminate the competition ... well, a look at the new War Room fee is a good indication of what will happen to their pricing.

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Ben Gordon

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I agree. I've worked with sites with ratings like that and it is ridiculous the latitude that the buyers are given to destroy reputations in a keystroke. Freelance sites love this system and are completely blind and inflexible to the idea that someone would deliberately harm your reputation for reasons other than whether or not them like a product.

Totally agree. Even if ALL your buyers are absolutely satisfied and you have the best product in the world, you're still gonna have competitors buy your product just to harm your reputation. This "rating" system will be a COMPLETE failure for the WF marketplace. There's no question to it.

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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I agree. I've worked with sites with ratings like that and it is ridiculous the latitude that the buyers are given to destroy reputations in a keystroke.

Leaving marks pro or con against a seller rep ought to be an earned privilege. I suggest it be tied to the thank metric we already have which isn't being utilized for anything but show - yet is already in the database to be tied in. You have to have a minimum thanks to post reviews in the rating system (anyone can still "review" in post comments)

It might not be game proof but if the only way you can build or tear down a reputation of a member is to put something into the community it makes the whole system (with its recommendation or critiques) more valuable.

Personally I don't take the reviews pro or con of a poster with no standing in the community as anything valuable anyway because they are just a username and can be anyone -even the seller

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JensSteyaert

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Leaving marks pro or con against a seller rep ought to be an earned privilege. I suggest it be tied to the thank metric we already have which isn't being utilized for anything but show - yet is already in the database to be tied in. You have to have a minimum thanks to post reviews in the rating system (anyone can still "review" in post comments)

It might not be game proof but if the only way you can build or tear down a reputation of a member is to put something into the community it makes the whole system (with its recommendation or critiques) more valuable.

Personally I don't take the reviews pro or con of a poster with no standing in the community as anything valuable anyway because they are just a username and can be anyone -even the seller

Yes that would be a good idea, there needs to be a metric to determine who can post a rating, and the thanks a person received from being active in the forum would be perfect for that.

It would definately give more credibility to the ratings as opposed to the rating system now...

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kindsvater 10 years ago

A couple issues:

1. After the affiliate commission percentage is set, it cannot be changed. Not globally and not per affiliate.

Related: can a seller ban an affiliate? Such as for spamming or illegal advertising?

2. If the commission percent is set to 100% the PayPal adaptive payments are not working right.

When someone buys through a referral, no payment is made to my PayPal account, and I am not paying the forum transaction fees and am not paying the affiliate.

I also am not receiving buyer information in PayPal, which can be critical. Of course, I cannot handle any buyer issues in PayPal.

Instead the affiliate's PayPal account is replacing the seller's PayPal account, and the affiliate is being treated as the seller. I believe this means the affiliate is paying the forum transaction fees and the affiliate is receiving the buyer information in PayPal.

This is not how adaptive payments are supposed to work, where the seller is entirely cut out of the the transaction (except for the joy of handling support requests for a buyer they do not know about, do not have the PayPal transaction ID, etc.)

Basically, if the forum receives a 100% commission we have a ClickBank situation where the forum is actually selling the product, receiving the buyer information, handling issues and refunds in PayPal, paying all taxes, etc.

This is not like any adaptive payments I have seen setup anywhere else.

3. The support in removing a troll trying to harm a WSO was incredible fast. Possibly the fastest response I have seen.

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careybaird

10 years ago

For those of you unsure exactly what happens with the payments.. I did a test payment.

Payments are paid to you and then split to WF and your affiliate (if applicable). You retain control over the transaction and don't get "double fees" from PayPal.

As noted elsewhere the description of the purchase is "Freelancer PLC", so hopefully they will fix that soon.

Gonna give this a whirl

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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by careybaird

Payments are paid to you and then split to WF and your affiliate (if applicable). You retain control over the transaction and don't get "double fees" from PayPal.

So you are in control of whether to give a refund or not? the last thing this place needs is a direct invitation to refunders knowing they will get a no hassle regardless of the facts instant refund.

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careybaird

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

So you are in control of whether to give a refund or not? the last thing this place needs is a direct invitation to refunders knowing they will get a no hassle regardless of the facts instant refund.

It is the same situation as JVZoo.. theoretically, the JVZoo or WF staff could initiate a refund. You grant permission for them to do so when you link your PP account but at JVZoo it is only so you can use the "refund" function in your JVZoo admin area.

I would wait for an official statement from WF on whether they intend to initiate refunds or not.. and under what circumstances.

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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by careybaird

It is the same situation as JVZoo.. theoretically, the JVZoo or WF staff could initiate a refund. You grant permission for them to do so when you link your PP account but at JVZoo it is only so you can use the "refund" function in your JVZoo admin area.

I would wait for an official statement from WF on whether they intend to initiate refunds or not.. and under what circumstances.

I'm new to such payment systems as I have done everything under my own control so I thank you for the heads up. Thats perhaps another reason against everyone using a payment system - Many services will disappear. As a service provider I can tell you the world is full of people who try to get services for free and unlike digital info products those services cost the seller.

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Kajova

10 years ago

Could anyone tell me how we create a WSO without using WP?

All I see on the WSO forum is a button titled "Create a new WSO" which takes me directly to warrior payments?

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Shane N

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kajova

Could anyone tell me how we create a WSO without using WP?

All I see on the WSO forum is a button titled "Create a new WSO" which takes me directly to warrior payments?

You can create a new WSO without using Warrior Payments at this link:

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

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Kajova

10 years ago

Thanks Shane! Am I right in saying this link has been hidden from view?

Originally Posted by Shane N

You can create a new WSO without using Warrior Payments at this link:

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

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Shane N

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Shane N

You can create a new WSO without using Warrior Payments at this link:

http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

Originally Posted by Kajova

Thanks Shane! Am I right in saying this link has been hidden from view?

It does seem to be hard to find for now, but Alaister himself linked to it in this post here:

Warrior Payments Thread - Post #61

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

I agree. I've worked with sites with ratings like that and it is ridiculous the latitude that the buyers are given to destroy reputations in a keystroke. Freelance sites love this system and are completely blind and inflexible to the idea that someone would deliberately harm your reputation for reasons other than whether or not them like a product.

The review system can be gamed either way. How long before sellers have their subscribers drop a five star rating. Ass kissing is already rampant in the WSO section, to the point where Warriors can see right through the brown nosing, so using the rating system will be easier to manipulate.

Thanks Shane! Am I right in saying this link has been hidden from view?

It is hidden, it should be front and center with the other buy button. Instead the page is linked up in some random thread. Judging from the legitimate questions that are being ignored, we can expect some drastic changes coming soon

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writeaway

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

The review system can be gamed either way. How long before sellers have their subscribers drop a five star rating. Ass kissing is already rampant in the WSO section, to the point where Warriors can see right through the brown nosing, so using the rating system will be easier to manipulate.

It is hidden, it should be front and center with the other buy button. Instead the page is linked up in some random thread. Judging from the legitimate questions that are being ignored, we can expect some drastic changes coming soon

Not to mention CLIQUES (groups of people that build each other's 'credibility' up to the disadvantage of the larger community). Also, are there any safeguards against moderators favoring one group of people against the rest of the community? This happens a lot at forums and platforms.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

The review system can be gamed either way. How long before sellers have their subscribers drop a five star rating. Ass kissing is already rampant in the WSO section, to the point where Warriors can see right through the brown nosing, so using the rating system will be easier to manipulate.

Of course the rating system can be gamed either way and that's what makes it both detrimental to sellers and a nuisance to buyers. What exactly is the point when commenting in the thread achieved the same results. Shills could shill and trolls can troll and honest reviews are mixed in with both. Call it Feedback or Reputation, throw in some adorable little stars and it's still the same old crap. At least when trolls hit the thread, the mods would investigate and remove their comments if warranted. Now the trolls will live on for eternity, because Feedback is NEVER removed.

I predict this is going to be a big problem for sellers ... unfair and irrelevant feedback that is detrimental both to their reputations and their sales. They won't put up with that for long. This isn't freelancer. On freelancer and Elance when spite/troll feedback occurs, you have to live with it and hope that you can still win projects. Here, you don't have to live with it. You can launch your product through JVZoo or a host of other places.

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WillR

10 years ago

Originally Posted by linkwhizz

I might be missing something here but from a business point of view, isn't the main problem the fact that very few vendors launch here anymore?

The reason that happened wasn't because of the affiliate platform or the payment processor. It was because of the limitations of a forum sales page when compared to a self hosted.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Some vendors have stopped launching from here because their products suck or stop working shortly after launch and/or they have terrible support. These vendors cannot deal with the honest negative public reviews so they use sales pages that do not allow any buyer feedback.

Cheers

-don

The reason top vendors left the forum was simple. There was no longer any advantage to launching inside of a forum. The WSO forum was great back in it's day and used to get a ton of organic traffic and affiliates... and a lot of the offers being posted were awesome.

That has since changed. The traffic has dropped off, top affiliates and vendors have gone elsewhere and so there is no longer any advantage to sending your traffic inside of someone elses website and building their brand. It's much easier and more sensible to do self hosted launches.

You guys might remember the FSO (Forum Special Offers) forum created by some of the top vendors in the niche and also the integrated payment/affiliate platform they created for that. Again, a lot of money and time was put into creating that platform but it just didn't take off as expected because the top vendors in this niche have moved back to self-hosted launches and I see no reason why they would ever move back to forum launches.

Just the reality of the situation.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Suzanne,

As for the intelligence of the "crowd," I see waves and waves of 2014 signups with little command of the English language and nothing to indicate that they're "a pretty smart crowd."

Intelligence is not measured by fluency in English. The complexity of the questions they can ask in it is limited by that, though. It's a problem, but not one of brains.

This happens every time Internet access becomes more affordable or available in a market. We've gone through the cycle with India and the Philippines, then Bangladesh (still happening), and now Viet Nam.

Mike,

The problem is if you get those kind of ratings early in the process and you don't have a big launch you will never get the numbers to offset that bad start.

The idea of not displaying any star ratings until you have X comments from verified buyers might address that issue.

One thing I can see happening is a tendency for a lot of lower-priced offers to get worse ratings. The people who complain the most and the loudest tend to buy cheap stuff and expect the world for their $4.95.

As far as the reasons some vendors don't sell here any more, all of the ones mentioned (plus the fact that some got banned and can't) apply for some people. From what I've observed, there's one that applies more and doesn't get mentioned often.

The number of affiliates with lists of buyers big enough to sustain launches has grown to the point where the group as a whole is a sustainable independent eco-system. Launching outside the forum allows them to use tools and techniques they can't here, whether for policy or simple technical reasons. Then there's the control over the total look and feel of the pages and elimination of the approval process.

The one I hear most is "Trolls!" That's definitely a problem, but not to nearly the extent some sellers claim.

Example: I spoke with a guy who sells here with a partner, and he couldn't understand why his partner insisted on using the WSO section. He complained rather bitterly about the trolls and the "ridiculous refund rate." I told him why he got the complaints, and he agreed they were partially responsible. I then asked him to check what his refund rate was for sales made here. He was dumbfounded when he saw it was around 2%.

Me: What's your normal refund rate?
Him: 2%.
Me: How much have you sold through the forum?
Him: [relatively big number]
Me: That's all extra sales. What do you think your refund rate on the same product would be through Clickbank?
Him: A lot more than 2%!

He got the point.

A lot of people complain about things that aren't really issues, simply because the public nature of the threads brings their egos into play.

Know who complains the most about "trolls?" The sellers who abuse their customers verbally, or whose response times are measured in weeks, rather than days. They choose to do things any reasonable person should know will anger their customers and then expect the mods to clean up after them.

I'm not saying the problems don't exist. They do, and they need addressing, to whatever extent is practical. Just keep in mind that there are other factors involved, and the sellers aren't going to mention them all.

Anyway, the segment of sellers who go off to their own pages is an inevitable result of the forum reaching the size it has. It is what created the resources that sustain that separate group. It's also inevitable that, barring changes that actively repel them, new sellers will develop and work inside the forum.

Part of the cycle. Just like it's part of the cycle that some of the smart ones are coming back, and using a higher than average quality of product and customer service to take over the top spots among regular WSO buyers.

Paul

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

You guys might remember the FSO (Forum Special Offers) forum created by some of the top vendors in the niche and also the integrated payment/affiliate platform they created for that. Again, a lot of money and time was put into creating that platform but it just didn't take off as expected because the top vendors in this niche have moved back to self-hosted launches and I see no reason why they would ever move back to forum launches.

Not everyone is a "top" vendor and reality says only a few people percentage wise become "top" vendors on any platform in a given market, self hosted or not.

That said, some vendors moved from Warrior Forum to FSO because they thought FSO would be less "noisy" and troll free. Reality was that meant MORE censorship of user/buyer feedback --> and in the end a bunch of crap products that went virtually unsupported were launched from there. That's what I saw go down over at FSO and it's part of the reason it's so dead today.

I am no noob when it comes to selling online as I've been selling from my own "self-hosted" sites since 2002 and I have had basically zero complaints and less than a handful of refunds over the past 13 years.

Yeah, many established vendors may not realize an advantage from forum launches these days, but most certainly some vendors have left the forums because they can't take the negative feedback on their bogus products and crap service(s).

I hear what you are saying --> but one advantage of self hosting is you can have a ton of affiliates that only care about making a few sales sending traffic to a page without the vendor having to worry about maintaining the sales thread and dealing with negative feedback.

Sure FSO was created by some of the "top" vendors and obviously the way the forum was moderated was skewed towards taking care of the vendors and not the consumers. I watched with my own eyes as tons of legit posts disappeared and threads were closed when the heat got to be too much for the crap cooks in the kitchen.

It was a bit busy when it was going fairly good --> but then the signs of death set in rather quickly and I for one am not shedding many tears. I do agree with you on the fact that forum launches do seem to have much less benefit than they used to have...but maybe now that you can again advertise for affiliates on your sales thread may bring a few more affiliates to the table.

And yeah, I know almost all of the very high dollar launches are using self hosted solutions these days. The thing is many vendors and marketers are just getting started and for those people a forum launch may still make some sense. For some of the other folks that are doing forum launches they may be trying to tap some sources and markets they have not yet been exposed to.

I also agree with the others that have mentioned the quality of many WSOs these days are pretty low. I don't know what the ratio of gems to junk was 4-10 years ago but it seems like a relatively small number at this point.

Cheers

-don

Thanks
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WillR

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Not everyone is a "top" vendor and reality says only a few people percentage wise become "top" vendors on any platform in a given market, self hosted or not.

Spot on. And do you want to have a guess how many of the sales that top group of vendors account for on most platforms... I would say 95%+.

If I were running a platform it is those top 5% of vendors I would be trying to please because they are the ones who will bring you the majority of the profits. The old 80-20 rule never fails.

A launch from one top vendor would likely bring in more sales (thus more profit for the forum) within a few hours than the other 95% of sellers combined do over a few days/week.

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ExRat

10 years ago

Hi Alaister,

Back in comment #82 I asked some questions, some of which have been answered. It would be great if you could possibly address the ones that haven't -

In comment #151 while discussing 'WSO of the day' recommendations which will be promoted by you via warrior payments choice of 'WSO of the day', you say -

We'll be choosing the products that we feel are most suitable and will provide the most value to the community.

Will you automatically make yourself an affiliate of every offer? Will you present the option for vendors to remove Warrior Payments as an affiliate if they choose to do so?

Will you be dropping your affiliate cookies anywhere on your own web property, for example within your Warrior Payments marketplace pages when someone is browsing around looking for products to promote (affiliate) or buy (buyer)?

Regarding -

the products that we feel are most suitable and will provide the most value to the community.

I just took a look at the email you sent me today via the warrior forum newsletter and the WSO product you are promoting within that email (there's no other 'news' in the email). You, yourself, make some interesting claims within that email -

What if I told you within an hour, you could have your very own autopilot website up and running, bringing in huge amounts of traffic and potentially thousands of dollars in revenue without ever spending a penny on advertising.

Build authority websites that attract traffic and earnings on autopilot!

I also looked through the WSO thread and examined the claims made by the vendor, his responses to the questions asked and formed an opinion on the general viability of the product in light of the claims made, based on my own experiences of building similar websites over a number of years and because I am always interested in offers of this type.

Would you say that the WSOs that you will promote as 'WSO of the day' will be chosen via the same/a similar criteria as is being used to choose the WSOs you are promoting in your newsletter emails?

On a sidenote, I found it fascinating to see the new WSO review system at work and to note that the very first review, which came in two days before anyone elses from a very well known longstanding warrior was a 5 star rating -

https://payments.warriorforum.com/pr...20Jericho.html

It's interesting to contrast this and the claims made about this product by warrior forum itself in the newsletter, with the review posted in comment# 79 in the WSO thread -

If you're serious about affiliate marketing as a business, and you like to build quality sites, then I'd steer clear.

This offer comes at time when Google is punishing sites like these, especially when you're not using an aged domain, not to mention the plugin hasn't been updated in nearly 18 months. :-

Fascinating stuff, interesting times for warrior forum.

Many thanks.

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Ryan Jericho

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Alaister,

Back in comment #82 I asked some questions, some of which have been answered. It would be great if you could possibly address the ones that haven't -

In comment #151 while discussing 'WSO of the day' recommendations which will be promoted by you via warrior payments choice of 'WSO of the day', you say -

Will you automatically make yourself an affiliate of every offer? Will you present the option for vendors to remove Warrior Payments as an affiliate if they choose to do so?

Will you be dropping your affiliate cookies anywhere on your own web property, for example within your Warrior Payments marketplace pages when someone is browsing around looking for products to promote (affiliate) or buy (buyer)?

Regarding -

I just took a look at the email you sent me today via the warrior forum newsletter and the WSO product you are promoting within that email (there's no other 'news' in the email). You, yourself, make some interesting claims within that email -

I also looked through the WSO thread and examined the claims made by the vendor, his responses to the questions asked and formed an opinion on the general viability of the product in light of the claims made, based on my own experiences of building similar websites over a number of years and because I am always interested in offers of this type.

Would you say that the WSOs that you will promote as 'WSO of the day' will be chosen via the same/a similar criteria as is being used to choose the WSOs you are promoting in your newsletter emails?

On a sidenote, I found it fascinating to see the new WSO review system at work and to note that the very first review, which came in two days before anyone elses from a very well known longstanding warrior was a 5 star rating -

https://payments.warriorforum.com/pr...20Jericho.html

It's interesting to contrast this and the claims made about this product by warrior forum itself in the newsletter, with the review posted in comment# 79 in the WSO thread -

Fascinating stuff, interesting times for warrior forum.

Many thanks.

I mean really? Out of the reviews in the system, and many positive comments, you pick out two opinionated reviews towards my WSO? Nice job there.

I have a refund Policy that will ensure everyone suceeds, even offering up one of my own sites etc, and a Bonus that is worth 10x the WSO Price.

You can't please everyone with a WSO.

Thanks

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Will you automatically make yourself an affiliate of every offer? Will you present the option for vendors to remove Warrior Payments as an affiliate if they choose to do so?

Will you be dropping your affiliate cookies anywhere on your own web property, for example within your Warrior Payments marketplace pages when someone is browsing around looking for products to promote (affiliate) or buy (buyer)?

Hi ExRat,

Great questions.

No we don't automatically sign ourselves up as an affiliate for everything. When creating your offer your can select whether your would like to be eligible for Warrior Daily Deals. If you select no we will no be signed up as an affiliate.

We don't drop affiliate cookies anywhere on our site. No affiliate cookies are dropped when people are browsing Warrior Payments.

In regards to today's Warrior Daily Deal, that first review had nothing to do with us. The buyer who wasn't a warrior forum member was able to enter a "name" to associate with the review. Obviously this is a problem as they can enter anything in this field. In this instance they entered in "admin". We'll be working on fixing this.

We feel this WSO offers good value to people who purchase. Overall it has received good feedback from buyers both in our review system and on the forum. We are working on improving our review system based on the community's feedback. At the end of the day not every WSO will be suitable for everyone.

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GarrieWilson

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

In regards to today's Warrior Daily Deal, that first review had nothing to do with us. The buyer who wasn't a warrior forum member was able to enter a "name" to associate with the review. Obviously this is a problem as they can enter anything in this field. In this instance they entered in "admin". We'll be working on fixing this.

You need to either put the name from PayPal or their logged in user name. No other option.

-g

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

I think I know what the vendor you mention in your post is thinking.

WOOT! I just got promoted to the same buying audience that my competitors who also paid for their WSO are trying to get sales from.

I'm sorry but doesn't any one see a problem with this? It's completely UNFAIR to others who have the same or very similiar product who've PAID for advertising!

Honestly, if you're going to take money for advertising you have NO BUSINESS promoting any advertiser, whether its for money or not. The second the money exchanged hands between the advertiser and you (the forum), you entered into a fiduciary role in the relationship with the advertiser.

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Alaister,

Back in comment #82 I asked some questions, some of which have been answered. It would be great if you could possibly address the ones that haven't -

In comment #151 while discussing 'WSO of the day' recommendations which will be promoted by you via warrior payments choice of 'WSO of the day', you say -

Will you automatically make yourself an affiliate of every offer? Will you present the option for vendors to remove Warrior Payments as an affiliate if they choose to do so?

Will you be dropping your affiliate cookies anywhere on your own web property, for example within your Warrior Payments marketplace pages when someone is browsing around looking for products to promote (affiliate) or buy (buyer)?

Regarding -

I just took a look at the email you sent me today via the warrior forum newsletter and the WSO product you are promoting within that email (there's no other 'news' in the email). You, yourself, make some interesting claims within that email -

I also looked through the WSO thread and examined the claims made by the vendor, his responses to the questions asked and formed an opinion on the general viability of the product in light of the claims made, based on my own experiences of building similar websites over a number of years and because I am always interested in offers of this type.

Would you say that the WSOs that you will promote as 'WSO of the day' will be chosen via the same/a similar criteria as is being used to choose the WSOs you are promoting in your newsletter emails?

On a sidenote, I found it fascinating to see the new WSO review system at work and to note that the very first review, which came in two days before anyone elses from a very well known longstanding warrior was a 5 star rating -

https://payments.warriorforum.com/pr...20Jericho.html

It's interesting to contrast this and the claims made about this product by warrior forum itself in the newsletter, with the review posted in comment# 79 in the WSO thread -

Fascinating stuff, interesting times for warrior forum.

Many thanks.

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barbling

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

I think I know what the vendor you mention in your post is thinking.

WOOT! I just got promoted to the same buying audience that my competitors who also paid for their WSO are trying to get sales from.

I'm sorry but doesn't any one see a problem with this? It's completely UNFAIR to others who have the same or very similiar product who've PAID for advertising!

Honestly, if you're going to take money for advertising you have NO BUSINESS promoting any advertiser, whether its for money or not. The second the money exchanged hands between the advertiser and you (the forum), you entered into a fiduciary role in the relationship with the advertiser.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't JVzoo and W+ do the same thing as well?

Nobody seems to have a problem with that.....

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Tom B Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by barbling

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't JVzoo and W+ do the same thing as well?

Nobody seems to have a problem with that.....

Not really, Russ is talking about paying for ad space and competitors getting preferential treatment who are paying for the same service as him.

As far as I understand jvzoo and w+, you are not paying for ad space.

Besides that, I have seen some complaints about them mailing offers to vendor's lists.
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Karen Blundell

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Alaister,

Back in comment #82 I asked some questions, some of which have been answered. It would be great if you could possibly address the ones that haven't -

In comment #151 while discussing 'WSO of the day' recommendations which will be promoted by you via warrior payments choice of 'WSO of the day', you say -

Will you automatically make yourself an affiliate of every offer? Will you present the option for vendors to remove Warrior Payments as an affiliate if they choose to do so?

Will you be dropping your affiliate cookies anywhere on your own web property, for example within your Warrior Payments marketplace pages when someone is browsing around looking for products to promote (affiliate) or buy (buyer)?

Regarding -

I just took a look at the email you sent me today via the warrior forum newsletter and the WSO product you are promoting within that email (there's no other 'news' in the email). You, yourself, make some interesting claims within that email -

I also looked through the WSO thread and examined the claims made by the vendor, his responses to the questions asked and formed an opinion on the general viability of the product in light of the claims made, based on my own experiences of building similar websites over a number of years and because I am always interested in offers of this type.

Would you say that the WSOs that you will promote as 'WSO of the day' will be chosen via the same/a similar criteria as is being used to choose the WSOs you are promoting in your newsletter emails?

On a sidenote, I found it fascinating to see the new WSO review system at work and to note that the very first review, which came in two days before anyone elses from a very well known longstanding warrior was a 5 star rating -

https://payments.warriorforum.com/pr...20Jericho.html

It's interesting to contrast this and the claims made about this product by warrior forum itself in the newsletter, with the review posted in comment# 79 in the WSO thread -

Fascinating stuff, interesting times for warrior forum.

Many thanks.

Thanks for this - very fascinating ! I miss Allen - and I hope he sees this.

Thanks

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

Spot on. And do you want to have a guess how many of the sales that top group of vendors account for on most platforms... I would say 95%+.

If I were running a platform it is those top 5% of vendors I would be trying to please because they are the ones who will bring you the majority of the profits. The old 80-20 rule never fails.

A launch from one top vendor would likely bring in more sales (thus more profit for the forum) within a few hours than the other 95% of sellers combined do over a few days/week.

Obviously forum profit appears to be the primary objective at this point but is that really making this community a better community? From what we have seen so far the quality of posts in the main section may have deteriorated a bit over the past few months.

For better or for worse the WSO section seems to include a ton of WSO listings that only make a few sales as well as WSOs that are free for list building purposes. As you know up until now the WF was making it's money off of all those listing fees and bumps (noobs, wannabees, and no-sales included) but obviously the WF financial landscape is rapidly changing --> and it appears as if the spirit of the forum may be as well.

Unfortunately some of those big dog vendors push nothing but crap products with an army of affiliates...you know it, I know it, and they know it. Of course some of the "top" vendors are selling legit stuff but to be honest a lot of stuff put out by some of those big dogs is quite suspect. The sad thing is many of those dogs and their affiliates feel no shame or have any regrets whatsoever. Oh well, internet marketing life goes on and now we have another affiliate platform to consider, conflict of interest or not.

Cheers

-don

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lotsofsnow

10 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

The reason top vendors left the forum was simple. There was no longer any advantage to launching inside of a forum. The WSO forum was great back in it's day and used to get a ton of organic traffic and affiliates... and a lot of the offers being posted were awesome.

That has since changed. The traffic has dropped off, top affiliates and vendors have gone elsewhere and so there is no longer any advantage to sending your traffic inside of someone elses website and building their brand. It's much easier and more sensible to do self hosted launches.

You guys might remember the FSO (Forum Special Offers) forum created by some of the top vendors in the niche and also the integrated payment/affiliate platform they created for that. Again, a lot of money and time was put into creating that platform but it just didn't take off as expected because the top vendors in this niche have moved back to self-hosted launches and I see no reason why they would ever move back to forum launches.

Just the reality of the situation.

You are hitting the nail on the head.

But guess what? Nobody is listening.

I tried to show that the traffic has dropped off and the post got deleted. All nice with screenshots showing traffic levels now an then. I also included a solution on how to fix it. Got nicely deleted too.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hpgoodboy

You are hitting the nail on the head.

But guess what? Nobody is listening.

I tried to show that the traffic has dropped off and the post got deleted. All nice with screenshots showing traffic levels now an then. I also included a solution on how to fix it. Got nicely deleted too.

Wow, roughly what is the WSO traffic percentage difference from the "good ol' days" to now? If you have the screenshots handy I would love to see them via PM.

Cheers

-don

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lotsofsnow

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Wow, roughly what is the WSO traffic percentage difference from the "good ol' days" to now?

Cheers

-don

roughly 1/3 now

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hpgoodboy

roughly 1/3 now

It seems the WSO forum stats usually show somewhere between 4200 and 5800 viewers at any given time these days...so are you intimating that the WSO section used to have roughly 15,000 viewers at a given time? Or are you using a different traffic metric?

Cheers

-don

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lotsofsnow 10 years ago

I am looking at https://www.quantcast.com/warriorforum.com that says about 60k per month visitors. That used to be 6k per day so about 180k per month in 2011.
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- mattbarrie 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by hpgoodboy
  
  I am looking at https://www.quantcast.com/warriorforum.com that says about 60k per month visitors. That used to be 6k per day so about 180k per month in 2011.
  
  Those quantcast numbers are way off. There's about 2.3 million visits per month to Warrior right now.
  
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Anton Louis

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hpgoodboy

roughly 1/3 now

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

It seems the WSO forum stats usually show somewhere between 4200 and 5800 viewers at any given time these days...so are you intimating that the WSO section used to have roughly 15,000 viewers at a given time? Or are you using a different traffic measure?

Cheers

-don

I'm also curious where you are getting your numbers from... Can you post any information?

As ForumGuru pointed out the forum stats for the WSO section typically average at ~5k.

They have been within the same range for the past 18 months or so that I've been running my WSO (except for the occasional spike).

I don't think I will be using WarriorPayments because all of my WSO sales are either from my sig or from bumps and I don't rely on affiliates at all but I have to say that since Freelancer has taken over I've been getting more sales than ever that can be directly attributed to this forum.

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Bruce Wedding

10 years ago

I just read the entire thread. Whew!

First, I'll second some recommendations and add some new ones:

GetResponse Integration - Jeezus, how did you miss this? They're #2 in this space. And if it isn't single-optin like JVZoo, forget it.
Membership Site Integration - Wishlist Member & S2 Member for me, please.
IPN Forwarding so us coders can do our own thing. And be sure to let us add some custom variables to the forwarded content.
Funnel Creation
Affiliate Sales stats (if they don't exist)
Ability to delay aff payments for "iffy" affiliates
JV Features (ability to split payments between JVs)

Now some comments:

80% recommended commission for WSOTD consideration? Does that come with a jar of Vaseline each time I make a sale?

Banning other affiliate systems will definitely have backlash. Knowing Mike Lantz, EBR and Zimmerman personally, I'd really hate to see you do that.

The review system sucks! A small but vocal few of WSO buyers are immature, reactionary, cheapskates, lazy or just flat out abuse the system buying with the intent to refund after they satisfy their curiosity.

They'll drop a zero star on you so fast (as we've already seen in the posted examples) that it will make your head spin. And that crap utterly destroys sales.

Look, your bread and butter are the fees you get from products WE product creators make and from the fees we pay to post them. Now I know you're trying to flip that around and start making affiliate commissions too. And that's great. But if you piss off the product creators, you won't have any products to make those commissions from.

My 2 cents.

PS: My last product was launched self-hosted via JVZoo and here via WSO. I made 3 sales here, 50X that on JVZoo sans forum. And I'm small time. Just something to think about.

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

I just read the entire thread. Whew!

First, I'll second some recommendations and add some new ones:

GetResponse Integration - Jeezus, how did you miss this? They're #2 in this space. And if it isn't single-optin like JVZoo, forget it.
Membership Site Integration - Wishlist Member & S2 Member for me, please.
IPN Forwarding so us coders can do our own thing. And be sure to let us add some custom variables to the forwarded content.
Funnel Creation
Affiliate Sales stats (if they don't exist)
Ability to delay aff payments for "iffy" affiliates
JV Features (ability to split payments between JVs)

Now some comments:

80% recommended commission for WSOTD consideration? Does that come with a jar of Vaseline each time I make a sale?

Banning other affiliate systems will definitely have backlash. Knowing Mike Lantz, EBR and Zimmerman personally, I'd really hate to see you do that.

The review system sucks! A small but vocal few of WSO buyers are immature, reactionary, cheapskates, lazy or just flat out abuse the system buying with the intent to refund after they satisfy their curiosity.

They'll drop a zero star on you so fast (as we've already seen in the posted examples) that it will make your head spin. And that crap utterly destroys sales.

Look, your bread and butter are the fees you get from products WE product creators make and from the fees we pay to post them. Now I know you're trying to flip that around and start making affiliate commissions too. And that's great. But if you piss off the product creators, you won't have any products to make those commissions from.

My 2 cents.

PS: My last product was launched self-hosted via JVZoo and here via WSO. I made 3 sales here, 50X that on JVZoo sans forum. And I'm small time. Just something to think about.

Great feedback Bruce. We're looking to implement these features.
With Get Response, the only reason we haven't got them implemented yet is because we are going through their developer approval process. As soon as that is complete they will be integrated.

Could you expand on the custom variables for IPN? What are some examples?

Thanks
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Bruce Wedding

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alaister

Great feedback Bruce. We're looking to implement these features.
With Get Response, the only reason we haven't got them implemented yet is because we are going through their developer approval process. As soon as that is complete they will be integrated.

Could you expand on the custom variables for IPN? What are some examples?

Sure.

The Paypal Instant Payment Notification contains a lot of information about a transaction (amount, Transaction ID, buyer email, etc) But there are times where we may want to pass in information that is not included in the default IPN. We might need to pass a secret key or some variable indicating an affiliate ID, or membership level or whatever.

So a lot of APIs allow you to define your own custom variables which are passed via POST. I give you a POST variable name and value. Or you might define some I can use, such as CUSTOM_1, CUSTOM_2 and I specify the value.

The value may be static or it might be dynamic like $WF_USERNAME, which you would populate with the Warrior Forum Username.

Obviously, your code would have to support these dynamic variables.

The purpose of this is for developers to take your IPN response and implement their own features. This could be used for membership sites, software licensing systems, gathering traffic stats, etc.

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Lance K

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

It seems the WSO forum stats usually show somewhere between 4200 and 5800 viewers at any given time these days...so are you intimating that the WSO section used to have roughly 15,000 viewers at a given time? Or are you using a different traffic metric?

Cheers

-don

Originally Posted by Anton Louis

As ForumGuru pointed out the forum stats for the WSO section typically average at ~5k.

Those numbers inclued all of the sub forums in the WSO section as well.

Also, with all of the WSOs, Warriors For Hire, Classifieds, Sites For Sale, etc. threads...it's impossible to tell how many of those viewers are vendors in there to monitor, support, or edit their threads.

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linkwhizz

10 years ago

I might be missing something here but from a business point of view, isn't the main problem the fact that very few vendors launch here anymore?

The reason that happened wasn't because of the affiliate platform or the payment processor. It was because of the limitations of a forum sales page when compared to a self hosted.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by linkwhizz

I might be missing something here but from a business point of view, isn't the main problem the fact that very few vendors launch here anymore?

The reason that happened wasn't because of the affiliate platform or the payment processor. It was because of the limitations of a forum sales page when compared to a self hosted.

Some vendors have stopped launching from here because their products suck or stop working shortly after launch and/or they have terrible support. These vendors cannot deal with the honest negative public reviews so they use sales pages that do not allow any buyer feedback.

Cheers

-don

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linkwhizz

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Some vendors have stopped launching from here because their products suck or stop working shortly after launch and/or they have terrible support. These vendors cannot deal with the honest negative public reviews so they use sales pages that do not allow any buyer feedback.

Cheers

-don

Yeah I'm sure your right, I am sure some have stopped for that reason. But I am fairly confident more have stopped because of the limited functionality and flexibility.

I don't think its so much a question of ethics but practicality, performance and ultimately, profits.

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writeaway

10 years ago

Originally Posted by linkwhizz

I might be missing something here but from a business point of view, isn't the main problem the fact that very few vendors launch here anymore?

The reason that happened wasn't because of the affiliate platform or the payment processor. It was because of the limitations of a forum sales page when compared to a self hosted.

What limitations do you think discourage product vendors?

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Matthew Iannotti

10 years ago

Originally Posted by linkwhizz

I might be missing something here but from a business point of view, isn't the main problem the fact that very few vendors launch here anymore?

The reason that happened wasn't because of the affiliate platform or the payment processor. It was because of the limitations of a forum sales page when compared to a self hosted.

I do believe the reason vendors don't launch here is the amount of trolls and complainers on threads. It's one thing to review a product, and totally another to complain about the sales process, complain why a ticket isn't answered 1 hour after submitting it and other general stuff that don't belong on a paid advertisement. Just ask em -

Other forums just remove the trolls completely from a thread with a ban. People are paying for an advertisement, it's not a thread someone can make their soapbox after the spilled their milk - or should I say, shouldn't be.

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rbeckwith

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Matthew Iannotti

I do believe the reason vendors don't launch here is the amount of trolls and complainers on threads. It's one thing to review a product, and totally another to complain about the sales process, complain why a ticket isn't answered 1 hour after submitting it and other general stuff that don't belong on a paid advertisement. Just ask em -

Other forums just remove the trolls completely from a thread with a ban. People are paying for an advertisement, it's not a thread someone can make their soapbox after the spilled their milk - or should I say, shouldn't be.

AMEN!

Now, there are "some" crap products, but WF should consider an editorial staff to help lower that kind of activity like Clickbank does or someday they may find the FCC or worse knocking on their doors.

However, there is nothing worse than spending a huge amount of money on development, and the sales materials only to have some clown troll start an abusefest on your thread who hasn't purchased your product or has owned it for 2 minutes and starts hammering...and now with an unregulated rating system, that is going to get worse. I suggest for starters...only "owners" of product that have owned it for more than 24--48hrs can comment and rate it.

Rod

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by rbeckwith

Now, there are "some" crap products, but WF should consider an editorial staff to help lower that kind of activity like Clickbank does or someday they may find the FCC or worse knocking on their doors.

It's a good (but possibly costly) suggestion and I think you meant the FTC and not the FCC. Of course it would not be so costly if something big did happen down the road.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

I think the technical challenge for the review system is actually tying together the buyer to their warrior forum account. Redirecting a buyer from Paypal after purchase to a review page isn't a viable option because how can one even review a a product immediately after buying?

They really can't and it's worse for those who provide services that aren't instantly delivered like SEO or design, etc.

I think a lot more thought needs to go into a review system before it goes any further.

Matt and Alister, keep in mind you are effecting your paying advertisers reputation in a possibly negative light with the way the review system works now.

Having my own review and reputation management system I have done extensive research in regards to buyers and reviews and what happens is that potential buyers read only the first few reviews to make a buying decision, usually between 6 and 7 and they rely t on the average start rating as well.

If you're going to continue down the review system it absolutely must be done right which I'm sure you guys are dedicated to doing but releasing it prematurely isn't a good idea for your advertisers at all. Just my 2 cents.

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

I think the technical challenge for the review system is actually tying together the buyer to their warrior forum account. Redirecting a buyer from Paypal after purchase to a review page isn't a viable option because how can one even review a a product immediately after buying?

They really can't and it's worse for those who provide services that aren't instantly delivered like SEO or design, etc.

I think a lot more thought needs to go into a review system before it goes any further.

Matt and Alister, keep in mind you are effecting your paying advertisers reputation in a possibly negative light with the way the review system works now.

Having my own review and reputation management system I have done extensive research in regards to buyers and reviews and what happens is that potential buyers read only the first few reviews to make a buying decision, usually between 6 and 7 and they rely t on the average start rating as well.

If you're going to continue down the review system it absolutely must be done right which I'm sure you guys are dedicated to doing but releasing it prematurely isn't a good idea for your advertisers at all. Just my 2 cents.

Yeh great point Russ and good discussion. I agree with a lot of you in regards to allowing people to review right after purchase. We're working on building onto this and improving the flow to make the review system more useful.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Here's a suggestion taken from a paid lead service I used to use when I was a roofing contractor. I won't mention the company's name it's irrelevant. LOL

So I'd get a lead and make a sale, I'd log into my lead dashboard and mark the lead sold and it was moved to "customer" status then further down the process when the job was complete and paid in full I'd mark the lead/customer as job completed.

Then a short time after I had marked the customers job as complete the lead service would send an email to the customer asking for feedback/review.

Obviously the whole process I described above wouldn't be relevant to a buyer here but you get the idea and advertisers should have NO control on who gets review requests so that eliminates leaving out those who had a less than desirable experience from getting a request.

So why not send a request for a review to the buyer X number of days after purchase. Perhaps 3 to 7 days?

For those advertisers that sell services like SEO which in reality should have no guarantee of success to begin with, requests for reviews could be set to a longer time frame.

Also while we're at it review criteria should be based on several factors instead of just rating by 1,2,3,4, or 5 stars.

Asking reviewers some simple questions (which you kind of do now) about the WHOLE process can give your advertisers great feedback on where users feel they may be falling short which gives the advertiser the information they need to actually improve in those areas, which benefits every one.

Also, if a buyer request's a refund they don't get to leave a review, this eliminates the whole hey you're my pal give me a review, or if they've left a review positive or negative and afterwards get a refund their review should be removed.

Additionally I think its a good idea to somehow restrict posting on a paid advertisement to people who've actually purchased, this can eliminate the trolls and shills from posting. Honestly I think the forum is partly culpable when some one post's something that can be damaging to an advertisers business especially if it's false because the forum allowed it.

One can not hide behind the free speech BS excuse claiming it's their right to say whatever they want. There is no free speech on a privately owned forum and because of that I think the forum has an implied duty/obligation to eliminate these problems for their advertisers. There's a product review section of the forums for a reason.

SO! Since the forum is taking money in exchange for advertising I believe the forum has some level of implied duty to put systems in place that help protect peoples paid advertisement from the shills and trolls.

If prospective buyers have pre-sales questions there's a PM feature for a reason or the vendor can direct those questions to their support desk. Additionally it wise for vendors to post a FAQ anyways which they can update as questions get asked that vendor didn't think of.

Additionally restricting postings to buyers only eliminates the wasted man hours and money it takes advertisers and the forum to deal with all the posts that are inappropriate. AKA shills, trolls, and just bull crap opinions.

Originally Posted by Alaister

Yeh great point Russ and good discussion. I agree with a lot of you in regards to allowing people to review right after purchase. We're working on building onto this and improving the flow to make the review system more useful.

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Here's a suggestion taken from a paid lead service I used to use when I was a roofing contractor. I won't mention the company's name it's irrelevant. LOL

So I'd get a lead and make a sale, I'd log into my lead dashboard and mark the lead sold and it was moved to "customer" status then further down the process when the job was complete and paid in full I'd mark the lead/customer as job completed.

Then a short time after I had marked the customers job as complete the lead service would send an email to the customer asking for feedback/review.

Obviously the whole process I described above wouldn't be relevant to a buyer here but you get the idea and advertisers should have NO control on who gets review requests so that eliminates leaving out those who had a less than desirable experience from getting a request.

So why not send a request for a review to the buyer X number of days after purchase. Perhaps 3 to 7 days?

For those advertisers that sell services like SEO which in reality should have no guarantee of success to begin with, requests for reviews could be set to a longer time frame.

Also while we're at it review criteria should be based on several factors instead of just rating by 1,2,3,4, or 5 stars.

Asking reviewers some simple questions (which you kind of do now) about the WHOLE process can give your advertisers great feedback on where users feel they may be falling short which gives the advertiser the information they need to actually improve in those areas, which benefits every one.

Also, if a buyer request's a refund they don't get to leave a review, this eliminates the whole hey you're my pal give me a review, or if they've left a review positive or negative and afterwards get a refund their review should be removed.

Additionally I think its a good idea to somehow restrict posting on a paid advertisement to people who've actually purchased, this can eliminate the trolls and shills from posting. Honestly I think the forum is partly culpable when some one post's something that can be damaging to an advertisers business especially if it's false because the forum allowed it.

One can not hide behind the free speech BS excuse claiming it's their right to say whatever they want. There is no free speech on a privately owned forum and because of that I think the forum has an implied duty/obligation to eliminate these problems for their advertisers. There's a product review section of the forums for a reason.

SO! Since the forum is taking money in exchange for advertising I believe the forum has some level of implied duty to put systems in place that help protect peoples paid advertisement from the shills and trolls.

If prospective buyers have pre-sales questions there's a PM feature for a reason or the vendor can direct those questions to their support desk. Additionally it wise for vendors to post a FAQ anyways which they can update as questions get asked that vendor didn't think of.

Additionally restricting postings to buyers only eliminates the wasted man hours and money it takes advertisers and the forum to deal with all the posts that are inappropriate. AKA shills, trolls, and just bull crap opinions.

Hi Russ,

Thanks for your suggestions. These are really great points. We are working on improving the review system overall. We'll be tweaking things until we get it right. We want to make sure our marketplace allows proper reviews of products/services that are reflective of what is being offered.

Thanks

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Rob Whisonant

10 years ago

The WSO section use to be about offering a special price or deal on an existing product that was already being sold. The forum drove the traffic to the offer and if it was a good offer, it sold a lot of copies.

The WSO section is no longer that. It really needs to be renamed to Easy Button or Shiny Objects. Now you have to bring your own traffic to make a lot of sales. You can do that without the limiting factors of the WSO section on your own site.

You also need affiliates now to make a lot of sales in "most cases." Again, you are better off doing that on your own site.

I'm no longer seeing any value in launching a product as a special offer in the WSO section. 99% of what is in it now, are NOT special offers. Most would qualify as shiny objects.

The WSO section many years ago was a great marketplace. It no longer is that. The WSO section really needs to be returned to what it was originally designed for before bells and whistles like rating systems are added.

Bring back the REAL WSO section and then build upon that. I think you would see higher quality products, more real special deals and more forum users actually looking through the WSO section for deals.

I really think the new style of the WSO section has ran it's course. There is just not a need for it anymore with what it has become.

Now the old WSO section? That one was great and forum members loved the deals that where posted in it.

That's my 2 cents on the subject. Take it or leave it.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

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Chris Worner

10 years ago

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Matthew,

totally another to complain about the sales process, complain why a ticket isn't answered 1 hour after submitting it

I know for a fact that the mods delete those when they're reported. I did it myself for many years.

and other general stuff that don't belong on a paid advertisement.

Gotta be more specific than "general stuff."

Just ask em - Other forums just remove the trolls completely from a thread with a ban.

How is that relevant, in either direction? Each forum has its own policies, based on the owner's decisions. They own the site, they get to make the rules, and they get the consequences, good or bad.

Paul

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Matthew Iannotti

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Matthew,I know for a fact that the mods delete those when they're reported. I did it myself for many years.Gotta be more specific than "general stuff."How is that relevant, in either direction? Each forum has its own policies, based on the owner's decisions. They own the site, they get to make the rules, and they get the consequences, good or bad.

Paul

I can't speak for other mods, but you have always been very fair and fast to take care of things.

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XponentSYS 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Matthew Iannotti

I can't speak for other mods, but you have always been very fair and fast to take care of things.

Not to get off topic but I second that. I like Paul and he is very much a part of the cultural fabric here.
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Simeon Tuitt

10 years ago

I think there needs to be a verification system in place that checks the thread or self hosted page to see if there is a Warrior Payments button on the page, if not they shouldn't go live within the marketplace.

As of Today I am noticing a few people listing items who either have a sales button to another merchant or are just directing traffic to their page.

A report offer button would be a good feature because it is only a matter of time before others decide to start listing offers in the marketplace and sending to a different payment system and when this marketplace really takes off, it won't be right if those sellers paying for WSOs and using the WP buttons are being buried under people who see it as a great source of targeted traffic to generate sales through alternative payment systems.

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Tom B

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Simeon Tuitt

I think there needs to be a verification system in place that checks the thread or self hosted page to see if there is a Warrior Payments button on the page, if not they shouldn't go live within the marketplace.

As of Today I am noticing a few people listing items who either have a sales button to another merchant or are just directing traffic to their page.

A report offer button would be a good feature because it is only a matter of time before others decide to start listing offers in the marketplace and sending to a different payment system and when this marketplace really takes off, it won't be right if those sellers paying for WSOs and using the WP buttons are being buried under people who see it as a great source of targeted traffic to generate sales through alternative payment systems.

Well, we are still able to use other platforms so this doesn't really apply.

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Simeon Tuitt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Well, we are still able to use other platforms so this doesn't really apply.

Hi Thomas Belknap,

I thought the other platforms were fine for normal WSOs in the WSO section since sellers are paying for them and should be able to use their preferred platform to take sales, but for offers in the new warrior payments marketplace these are meant to be offers with Warrior Payments buttons, right?

After all WF makes 2% on sales processed through the warrior payments marketplace and offers from other platforms in that section of the site would effectively give people free exposure while skipping WSO fees and cut WF out of making any money.

So for someone paying for a WSO and using the Warrior Payments option to take orders for inclusion in the Warrior Payments marketplace, a bunch of people who are using other platforms shouldn't really be able to jump in with offers being sold off platform.

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Tom B

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Simeon Tuitt

Hi Thomas Belknap,

I thought the other platforms were fine for normal WSOs in the WSO section since sellers are paying for them and should be able to use their preferred platform to take sales, but for offers in the new warrior payments marketplace these are meant to be offers with Warrior Payments buttons, right?

After all WF makes 2% on sales processed through the warrior payments marketplace and offers from other platforms in that section of the site would effectively give people free exposure while skipping WSO fees and cut WF out of making any money.

So for someone paying for a WSO and using the Warrior Payments option to take orders for inclusion in the Warrior Payments marketplace, a bunch of people who are using other platforms shouldn't really be able to jump in with offers being sold off platform.

Ah, gotcha. I misunderstood what you meant by marketplace (I was thinking the wso section). Yeah, that is a good way to screw affiliates if it is listed in the marketplace and they are processing the purchase through different platforms.

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Alex Blades 10 years ago

All this back and forth about the WSO Section traffic or if top vendors will stay or not. The truth is, you don't need analytics to tell you the traffic in the WSO section has dropped, just launch a WSO without driving your own traffic/affiliate's, and you will see how far that takes you. Even if the traffic hasn't stopped, buyer traffic has dropped, it is full of tire kickers. You can still make money with WSO Section traffic alone, but you won't be retiring anytime soon.

The top vendors always drive their own traffic, and have affiliate's drive traffic for them. You can't force someone to pay you 2% when they drive their own traffic. Top vendors will have no problem using WP if it is up to par with the others, but you cannot force them. You have to beat your competition, offer sellers something that the other payment processors cannot.

Even if you force out the other payment processors, how do you stop them from taking out a WSO and have them take orders on their own site? Are you going to force them to sell their product in the WSO section or else? Are you going to disable the ability to post links in the thread itself?

I think if this forum ever fails, it will be because the enormous pressure to make profits.
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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Simeon Tuitt

I think there needs to be a verification system in place that checks the thread or self hosted page to see if there is a Warrior Payments button on the page, if not they shouldn't go live within the marketplace.

As of Today I am noticing a few people listing items who either have a sales button to another merchant or are just directing traffic to their page.

A report offer button would be a good feature because it is only a matter of time before others decide to start listing offers in the marketplace and sending to a different payment system and when this marketplace really takes off, it won't be right if those sellers paying for WSOs and using the WP buttons are being buried under people who see it as a great source of targeted traffic to generate sales through alternative payment systems.

Yeh this is a good point. We're going to be implementing a verification system to ensure the sales page has the Warrior Payments button on it.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Simeon Tuitt

I think there needs to be a verification system in place that checks the thread or self hosted page to see if there is a Warrior Payments button on the page, if not they shouldn't go live within the marketplace.

Well, why wouldn't there be? Allegedly, we still have a choice and there is a secret link to bypass the Warrior Payments at this time, so why wouldn't some be using platforms that have the features and affiliates that they want?

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Imfactsandsecrets

Banned 10 years ago

I also noticed that the FAQs under the "help tab" have nothing related to WSOs or the Warrior Forum itself. It just talks about Freelancer.com?

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Shane N

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Simeon Tuitt
I think there needs to be a verification system in place that checks the thread or self hosted page to see if there is a Warrior Payments button on the page, if not they shouldn't go live within the marketplace.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well, why wouldn't there be? Allegedly, we still have a choice and there is a secret link to bypass the Warrior Payments at this time, so why wouldn't some be using platforms that have the features and affiliates that they want?

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the "Marketplace" within Warrior Payments,
not the WSO forum itself...

As in... If they are listing their product on Warrior PAYMENTS (WP) and then
they do not have the WP Buy Button in their thread, then it wouldn't go "live"
within the Warrior Payments Marketplace... Separate from the WSO section.

And, as you said, sellers CAN still use whatever platform they want by using
the link to post a new WSO without using Warrior Payments here:
http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17

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John Pawlett

10 years ago

Hi Alastier

Could we have a sticky somewhere that is only posted to by 'Admin' that gives updates on how the Warrior Payments is progressing, thinks that are happening seem to be getting lost in the 'noise' of this thread!

I am ready to launch a WSO but I am still yet to find any info on whether or not you have recurring billing yet!

Kind regards

John

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Pawlett

Hi Alastier

Could we have a sticky somewhere that is only posted to by 'Admin' that gives updates on how the Warrior Payments is progressing, thinks that are happening seem to be getting lost in the 'noise' of this thread!

I am ready to launch a WSO but I am still yet to find any info on whether or not you have recurring billing yet!

Kind regards

John

An official thread exists in the Suggestion section:

http://www.warriorforum.com/suggesti...ggestions.html

The original tease was posted in Warrior Forum News:

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ig-7-days.html

Maybe an updated features list could posted in News section as features are added.

Cheers

-don

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Alaister

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Pawlett

Hi Alastier

Could we have a sticky somewhere that is only posted to by 'Admin' that gives updates on how the Warrior Payments is progressing, thinks that are happening seem to be getting lost in the 'noise' of this thread!

I am ready to launch a WSO but I am still yet to find any info on whether or not you have recurring billing yet!

Kind regards

John

Hi John,

We'll be keeping all the Warrior Payments updates in the News forum.
At this stage we don't have functionality to allow recurring billing. It is coming very soon though so stay tuned.

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John Pawlett

10 years ago

Thanks Don

That thread is getting just as 'noisy' as this one, one thing that admin could do is to edit there very first post with updates as they happen, may make for a long post but all of the information would be in one place.

Kind regards

John

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Now, there are "some" crap products, but WF should consider an editorial staff to help lower that kind of activity like Clickbank does or someday they may find the FCC or worse knocking on their doors.

There's a real good reason the previous owner did not do that. A true advertising platform becomes potentially liable when they start screening products for whatever reason.

Crap is also very subjective, one mans crap is another mans gold.

What the platform can do is prohibit products about certain subjects.

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ForumGuru Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Crap is also very subjective, one mans crap is another mans gold.

Unfortunately in many cases the people that get the gold are the people selling the crap. Sure we get your point --> but software, SaaS, and plugins that break down quickly and/or do not do what they are advertised to do - or don't play nice with most other quality plugins and systems and exist virtually unsupported are crap. That's just the tip of the ol' crap iceberg...

Cheers

-don
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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

There's a real good reason the previous owner did not do that. A true advertising platform becomes potentially liable when they start screening products for whatever reason.

Crap is also very subjective, one mans crap is another mans gold.

Quite true and then there's indiscriminate buyers who probably need someone to hold their hand to run out and get toilet paper. I've bought a lot of WSOs and 99% were worth every penny I paid and plenty of them were worth more than I paid.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Alaister ... you probably could have stirred up a lot more participation and excitement for the platform if you offered free listings for a month. You are essentially forcing people to pay for beta testing an incomplete payment/affiliate platform for you. It's certainly not going to sit well with a lot of people, but free makes it a bit more exciting to try it out, as long as you monitor the new listings for quality. It would at least populate the site a bit and give it a workout and maybe work out some kinks while you're attempting to get some features done.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

On the surface that seems like a great idea but it's not right to the ask buyers to deal with issues and it makes any problems their problems. Not good for buyers, not good for sellers and not good for the forums if and or when something goes wrong.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Alaister ... you probably could have stirred up a lot more participation and excitement for the platform if you offered free listings for a month. You are essentially forcing people to pay for beta testing an incomplete payment/affiliate platform for you. It's certainly not going to sit well with a lot of people, but free makes it a bit more exciting to try it out, as long as you monitor the new listings for quality. It would at least populate the site a bit and give it a workout and maybe work out some kinks while you're attempting to get some features done.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Russ,

Also, if a buyer request's a refund they don't get to leave a review, this eliminates the whole hey you're my pal give me a review, or if they've left a review positive or negative and afterwards get a refund their review should be removed.

Historically, that was always treated as a bad idea. Meaning, getting a refund did not remove the right to post a review.

The thinking was this: All a person would have to do to maintain a 100% positive rating would be to refund anyone who didn't like something about the deal. That would in turn create a false impression of the offer.

It's not fair to the buyers, and it may well have legal implications for the forum. (I'm not a lawyer, so read that as a concern, not a definitive statement.)

I don't know if that policy will remain in place, but I don't think it would be good for anyone if it were to be reversed.

Garrie,

You need to either put the name from PayPal or their logged in user name. No other option.

If it's going to be visible in the forum, you'll get more reviews if you use the forum username. A lot of people don't care to advertise their real names.

Paul

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Paul, I see your point. Actually I just think for this platform (forum) there should not be a review process at all.

I think it's more expedient to only allow posts on WSO's from those who've made a purchased and of course the merchant as well.

Pre-sales questions could be addressed with a special PM feature so if a user doesn't have to have a minimum number of posts to communicate with a vendor via PM.

It's up to the vendor to have a FAQ section but a smart one will take all the questions and answer them in post #2.

Online reviews have yet to find clear legal precedence and I believe that the forum is entering very risky/shaky ground by allowing them, but they'll do what they want either way. = )

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Russ,Historically, that was always treated as a bad idea. Meaning, getting a refund did not remove the right to post a review.

The thinking was this: All a person would have to do to maintain a 100% positive rating would be to refund anyone who didn't like something about the deal. That would in turn create a false impression of the offer.

It's not fair to the buyers, and it may well have legal implications for the forum. (I'm not a lawyer, so read that as a concern, not a definitive statement.)

I don't know if that policy will remain in place, but I don't think it would be good for anyone if it were to be reversed.

Garrie,If it's going to be visible in the forum, you'll get more reviews if you use the forum username. A lot of people don't care to advertise their real names.

Paul

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careybaird

10 years ago

Just updating to say I put a WSO live this week with Warrior Payments to try it out.

Everything works great, I love the interface as its smooth and simple. Some people are saying negative things about the button designs but I love them.. and it really helps you to stand apart a bit.

I know the old button designs are tried and tested.. but it is good to keep design fresh and new.

I am not using affiliates but if I was, I would be concerned about the lack of a delayed payments option.

Overall a very promising payment system. JVZoo aren't doing anything wrong as such but the interface of Warrior Payments is nicer.. and it is a bit cheaper which will add up.

P.S./ Got WSO of the day today, thanks guys

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Mark Hess

10 years ago

Originally Posted by careybaird

Just updating to say I put a WSO live this week with Warrior Payments to try it out.

Everything works great, I love the interface as its smooth and simple. Some people are saying negative things about the button designs but I love them.. and it really helps you to stand apart a bit.

I know the old button designs are tried and tested.. but it is good to keep design fresh and new.

I am not using affiliates but if I was, I would be concerned about the lack of a delayed payments option.

Overall a very promising payment system. JVZoo aren't doing anything wrong as such but the interface of Warrior Payments is nicer.. and it is a bit cheaper which will add up.

P.S./ Got WSO of the day today, thanks guys

Dear Local Restaurant,

You guys are awesome and doing a great job. Very friendly service, your resturant was very clean, and the food was excellent. I would eat here again. Much better than the place down the road.

P.S. - I got a free meal.

(This is a perfect example of what a lot of people are talking about in this thread when it comes to reviews and feedback.)

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Russ,

Pre-sales questions could be addressed with a special PM feature so if a user doesn't have to have a minimum number of posts to communicate with a vendor via PM.

I'm not seeing the objection to public questions, as long as they're relevant and asked in a way that's not intended to be damaging. If people can't ask questions and post reviews, what's the point of selling in a forum?

Online reviews have yet to find clear legal precedence and I believe that the forum is entering very risky/shaky ground by allowing them

I don't think the act of simply allowing paying customers to post reviews creates any sort of risk.

I'm not so sure the same is true about endorsing offers that you moderate, especially when there may be competing offers that you were also paid to advertise. There's the added factor of having a financial interest in the success of some of those offers.

That's a whole other set of questions, though. That gets into areas of policy and management that can be very tricky.

Paul

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Paul, I didn't say anything about not allowing reviews, I said there should be no review "process". If only buyers were allowed to post they can post a review/feedback or not right on the thread.

The idea behind only allowing buyers to post is to eliminate shills, and trolls.

Like I already said, just have a pre-sales option button or something. It will actually keep the thread cleaner and it will also ensure the seller actually gets the question because it could go to their forum inbox for which they'll receive an popup when they are on the forum.

Smart vendor will add any relevant questions to a FAQ list and if the question has been asked over and over again the seller can just choose to ignore the PM and not waste time with some one who obviously doesn't either read or pay attention.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Russ,I'm not seeing the objection to public questions, as long as they're relevant and asked in a way that's not intended to be damaging. If people can't ask questions and post reviews, what's the point of selling in a forum?I don't think the act of simply allowing paying customers to post reviews creates any sort of risk.

I'm not so sure the same is true about endorsing offers that you moderate, especially when there may be competing offers that you were also paid to advertise. There's the added factor of having a financial interest in the success of some of those offers.

That's a whole other set of questions, though. That gets into areas of policy and management that can be very tricky.

Paul

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Russ,

I'm clearly missing something here. What's the objection to having pre-sales questions posted in sales threads?

Paul

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Paul, no objection at all but it also lets in the trolls and shills. Personally I'd rather know with no doubt that there won't be any trolls posting on my WSO "if" I decide to run any in the future. I may or may not.

But I don't see a problem with having sales questions asked and answered privately. Actually I've seen many vendors answering questions privately using the existing private message feature.

It's a paid advertisement which also includes a conversation right? Why can't the seller have more control over that conversation except in regards to real buyer reviews?

It's like...

Hey you have to pay to advertise and guess what, we leave your advertisement open to whomever want's to post whatever and you know what...?

You have to moderate your conversation too and then depend on admins to delete inappropriate posts when they have the time, all the while potential buyers are reading some one's rubbish and potentially damaging your reputation and sales.

Hasn't it been a long standing rule that a review or feedback or whatever you want to call it can only be posted by a customer who bought the offer? I believe so, so then why is it a stretch to just enforce that programmatically and keep people who aren't customers from posting?

Now sellers and admins are freed up to don't have to moderate their advertisement for trolls and post's of peoples opinions that don't have any business being on an advertisement to begin with.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Russ,

I'm clearly missing something here. What's the objection to having pre-sales questions posted in sales threads?

Paul

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

But I don't see a problem with having sales questions asked and answered privately. Actually I've seen many vendors answering questions privately using the existing private message feature.

Personally, I don't buy from vendors that do this. If I see legit questions on the thread and they are not answered publicly I avoid that product and vendor. If you can't answer legit and often times quite important sales questions on the thread then you don't need my business.

Pre-sale questions have been allowed the entire time I have been a member here and they should be allowed. And the WSO rules say it's allowed...the rules do not say PM the seller your questions.

If you have a question about a WSO ask the seller before you buy.

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

It's a paid advertisement which also includes a conversation right? Why can't the seller have more control over that conversation except in regards to real buyer reviews?

Legit pre-sale questions are allowed and you have the option to use the little red triangle any time you see fit.

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Hey you have to pay to advertise and guess what, we leave your advertisement open to whomever want's to post whatever and you know what...?

Users are allowed to post pre-sale questions and buyers are allowed to post a review. That's completely appropriate on a sales thread and you have the option to report any post that you do not feel is appropriate.

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

You have to moderate your conversation too and then depend on admins to delete inappropriate posts when they have the time, all the while potential buyers are reading some one's rubbish and potentially damaging your reputation and sales.

One man's rubbish is another man's gold...you said that yourself. If you want no public buyer feedback or customer questions then use a self-hosted sales page or a traditional ad. If you don't like the sales thread concept then use a self-hosted page or a traditional ad. The fact is you are paying for a sales page post on a forum thread --> keyword here is forum.

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Hasn't it been a long standing rule that a review or feedback or whatever you want to call it can only be posted by a customer who bought the offer? I believe so, so then why is it a stretch to just enforce that programmatically and keep people who aren't customers from posting?

It's been a long standing policy that potential customers are allowed to post legit pre-sale questions and buyers are allowed to post reviews.

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Now sellers and admins are freed up to don't have to moderate their advertisement for trolls and post's of peoples opinions that don't have any business being on an advertisement to begin with.

I think with the revenue the forum brings in the mods and admins can do some moderating in the WSO section. Tons of the reviews and pre-sale questions are quite beneficial to the community at large. It is exactly what keeps some people from buying the junk software and other crap the may not need. It is also what makes many users a lot of money when a thread fills up with pages of legit positive reviews and properly answered questions. Is it a perfect system? No. Does it work relatively well? It sure seems to have worked for quite sometime.

Again, you are not paying for a traditional advertisement...you are paying $20 for sales page post on a forum sales thread. If this forum stops allowing pre-sale questions and reviews on the threads I am sure a ton of users would never buy another thing here. In-fact the customer review element and pre-sale interaction with the seller is one of the major reasons why I buy anything at all here.

To each his own but to compare forum sales threads to traditional ads is a bit of a stretch...especially considering public reviews and pre-sale questions have beeen allowed here for quite sometime.

The #1 reason for allowing pre-sale questions on the thread is sales pages often time only tell us what the seller wants us to know...and worse yet, some sales pages here could be considered quite vague and pretty darn close to blind copy. Intelligent and knowledgeable users asking a few important questions on the thread often time expose the offer for what is and tell us key aspects of the product or the service that are quite relative to the use of the product or service.

It gives a person some extra "peace of mind" to have the seller answer the question publicly, and it helps future buyers in making proper purchasing decisions because they have more information on the product or service they are considering.

Cheers

-don

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

I completely understand your points as I've personally been in sales for 25+ years, I'm just trying to suggest possible solutions to the trolls and shill situation on sales ads while allowing for real reviews from people who actually made a purchase.

Maybe a button to ask a question can be provided and when the vendor answers the question it gets posted to the thread with the user ID of the person asking the question with the vendors answer? I'm pretty sure something like that can/could be coded.

Yes it is a forum but by definition, it is a paid advertisement which happens to be subject to trolls and even fake accounts from competitors who come and post crap on a thread some one has paid for.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Personally, I don't buy from vendors that do this. If I see legit questions on the thread and they are not answered publicly I avoid that product and vendor. If you can't answer legit and often times quite important sales questions on the thread then you don't need my business.

Pre-sale questions have been allowed the entire time I have been a member here and they should be allowed. And the WSO rules say it's allowed...the rules does not say PM the seller your questions.

Legit pre-sale questions are allowed and you have the option to use the little red triangle any time you see fit.

Users are allowed to post pre-sale questions and buyers are allowed to post a review. That's completely appropriate on a sales thread and you have the option to report any post that you do not feel is appropriate.

One man's rubbish is another man's gold...you said that yourself. If you want no public buyer feedback or customer questions then use a self-hosted sales page or a traditional ad. If you don't like the sales thread concept then use a self-hosted page or a traditional ad. The fact is you are paying for a sales page post on a forum thread --> keyword here is FORUM.

It's been a long standing policy that potential customers are allowed to post legit pre-sale questions and buyers are allowed to post reviews.

I think with the revenue the forum brings in the mods and admins can do some moderating in the WSO section. Tons of the reviews and pre-sale questions are quite beneficial to the community at large. It is exactly what keeps some people from buying the junk software and other crap the may not need. It is also what makes many users a lot of money when a thread fills up with pages of legit positive reviews and properly answered questions. Is it a perfect system? No? Does it work relatively well? It sure seems to have worked for quite sometime.

Again, you are not paying for a traditional advertisement...you are paying $20 for sales page post on a forum sales thread. If this forum stops allowing pre-sale questions and reviews on the threads I am sure a ton of users would never buy another thing here. In-fact the customer review element and interaction with the seller is one of the major reasons why I buy anything at all here.

To each his own but to compare forum sales threads to traditional ads is a bit of a stretch...especially considering public reviews and pre-sale questions have beeen allowed here for quite sometime.

Cheers

-don

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Lance K

10 years ago

If there are that many legit questions being asked in your sales thread, perhaps you need to reevaluate your sales copy.

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Rus Sells 10 years ago

Great point Lance and I was going to bring that up but forgot. Most of the questions I've seen makes it obvious they didn't take the time to read the copy to begin with. = /

Originally Posted by Lance K

If there are that many legit questions being asked in your sales thread, perhaps you need to reevaluate your sales copy.
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waterotter 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

If there are that many legit questions being asked in your sales thread, perhaps you need to reevaluate your sales copy.

A legitimate presell question I often see is "is this mac compatible?".

There's way too many folks selling software, plugins etc. that don't address this in their sales copy nor FAQ's.
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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

If there are that many legit questions being asked in your sales thread, perhaps you need to reevaluate your sales copy.

I don't think some of the sellers "want" to re-evaluate their copy for various reasons --> and others just suck at explaining their product or service on a sales page. This "tip" is posted to the WSO rules section but obviously many vendors do not follow this advice.

2. Give people as much info as they will need to make a decision. This helps you, the buyer and the MOD's. This means: Do not post "blind ads." You must tell people what the product is, not just what it isn't.

Personally, I have more relevant information on my current sales page then 99.99% of all sales pages posted so I don't have a lot of questions mixed in with the positive reviews.

Multitudes of threads on here have tons of questions on them and some of these questions are as simple as "what type of license to I get with this" or "what are your PLR terms" or "does this violate ToS" etc. etc. so obviously these sales threads were thrown together with not much attention to detail (sometimes intentionally so, I think).

I believe some of these so-called vendors don't put a lot of decent information on their sales pages because the information they are selling can easily be found for free online, the product is quite thin, or the plugin is basically a copy of something already offered for free at Wordpress.org, or on an previous WF offer etc.

Of course their are some threads have a lot of questions simply because the product may be relatively new to the segment, innovative or complex so it's next to impossible for the vendor to answer every potential question with their sales copy.

Obviously with offers such as these being posted pre-sale questions are perfectly appropriate and I believe public posting for all to see is the best approach for this free-for-all type of sales environment.

Cheers

-don

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Lance K

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Of course their are some threads have a lot of questions simply because the product may be relatively new to the segment, innovative or complex so it's next to impossible for the vendor to answer every potential question with their sales copy.

Obviously with offers such as these being posted pre-sale questions are perfectly appropriate and I believe public posting for all to see is the best approach for this free-for-all type of sales environment.

True. But I'd question the logic behind launching such a product in such an environment. Unless of course you've tried to launch it elsewhere and the newness, complexity, etc. make it hard to gain any real traction.

In that case, maybe an environment like this is exactly the right environment to use for the launch. But it would also make the time required to answer questions in the thread well worth it.

Either that, or perhaps go back to the drawing board and develop a product/service to solve a problem that the market more readily understands.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

True. But I'd question the logic behind launching such a product in such an environment. Unless of course you've tried to launch it elsewhere and the newness, complexity, etc. make it hard to gain any real traction.

In that case, maybe an environment like this is exactly the right environment to use for the launch. But it would also make the time required to answer questions in the thread well worth it.

Either that, or perhaps go back to the drawing board and develop a product/service to solve a problem that the market more readily understands.

FTR my "offers such as these" statement applied to the all of the offers that I described, not just the innovative and complex ones.

The fact is a ton of WF vendors are new to selling and "product creating" so they have no credibility whatsoever and they have no preestablished traffic to their product or their website so they "launch" on Warrior Forum.

They launch on WF because they think it is ready made market where they can score some cash and possibly some affiliates too. The sad thing is is many of these folks selling software products have not a clue on what they are doing, they don't code, they are not particularly technical, they have little to no customer service experience, they don't have the capital to support the product long term, and they are only here because they think they can sell a few copies to the noobs and the naive...or they have delusions of grandeur.

Of course we get the same thing in the infoproduct segment as well...some peeps that are launching here do not have a clue on the actual stuff they have rehashed, recycled, respun or curated and put together as a product. These so-called vendors also see this forum as a ready made market. With the fees being so low it is basically an easy avenue for them to try to break into a market.

Anyway, I am not that interested in debating the logic of launching complex products here, but I am advocating the position that pre-sale questions need to be allowed and they should remain public. It is pre-sale questions that can help weed out the really good offers from the rest and it also gives us a feel for what type of customer service we can expect from the vendor. In-other-words, it can help identify which sellers might be fly-by-night and which sellers appear to be the real deal.

One other point --> I have seen (and participated) on threads where the direct public feedback (mostly questions) led to the almost immediate advancement of the product, additional features added to the product, refinement of the product, betterment of the product, and a much greater value for the buyers.

In-fact I have seen quality vendors on here update a product many, many times in the first week or two of release adding additional features after people have posted "does it have this" questions. If those questions were not asked publicly many users would not even know that a great feature could have been added or even existed. Once a person asks one of these "does it have" the questions other users then "thank" the post or the second the question and this sometimes leads to quick action by the vendor.

Does this also happen without public questioning? Sure it does, but I think in some cases the public "does it have this feature" questions contribute greatly to the expediency of product upgrades.

Cheers

-don

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jakemo 10 years ago

I'm sure everything will get worked out, Trial and error my friends
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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

On the surface that seems like a great idea but it's not right to the ask buyers to deal with issues and it makes any problems their problems. Not good for buyers, not good for sellers and not good for the forums if and or when something goes wrong.

Worked for JVZoo when they did their launch, if I recall. A lot of people enjoy beta testing. I've done a lot of beta testing, but I'll be dam*ed if I'm going to pay to beta test. Who would? That's the smart way to get the platform populated with offers and get affiliates interested and get kinks worked out.

I saw one listing that was Deal of the Day and customers were not getting their links and the seller had to send numerous links manually directly to the customer. Considering there is now a rating system that poses a considerable risk to your sales listing and reputation, whether it's the seller's fault or the platform's fault, I would also want assurance that any negative feedback received due to platform failure would be removed immediately. This offer sold a couple of hundred (254 to be exact) copies, so it was ironed out and people were able to get their links, but any one of those who didn't get a link could have gone to the rating screen and posted ZERO ... didn't get a link, as in one screenshot of feedback that I've already posted with exactly that scenario.

Can anyone tell me how you pay for this??
have been trying the past couple of hours and payment button keeps getting error message, wondering if anybody has purchased ??

I purchased the wso, I was given an email to a link where i can download the wso, but what I could download is a apps.scribe file. no pdf or mp3 or video, can you please let me know in what format content is delivered?

Probably the new WarriorPayment system glitching out, I had a few blank emails sent to me. PM your transaction ID and your Paypal email, and ill send it over.

Also, if anyone else has any problems with their download being corrupt or what WFIMarketer described, Please Contact me ASAP.

Can anyone tell me how you pay for this??
have been trying the past couple of hours and payment button keeps getting error message, wondering if anybody has purchased ??

Alright, from now on til warriorpayment fix up, I'll accept direct payment as well if have issues. PM for a link.

i purchased the item but cant find link to donload..please help

What contact number is available I tried the whilte board scribe to purchase but was unable.

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Paul, I didn't say anything about not allowing reviews, I said there should be no review "process". If only buyers were allowed to post they can post a review/feedback or not right on the thread.

The idea behind only allowing buyers to post is to eliminate shills, and trolls.

Like I already said, just have a pre-sales option button or something. It will actually keep the thread cleaner and it will also ensure the seller actually gets the question because it could go to their forum inbox for which they'll receive an popup when they are on the forum.

Smart vendor will add any relevant questions to a FAQ list and if the question has been asked over and over again the seller can just choose to ignore the PM and not waste time with some one who obviously doesn't either read or pay attention.

When I run my offers, I welcome presale questions in the thread and I LOVE the reviews in the thread (never had a bad one), and have had minimal problem with trolls, which were taken care of by a mod. I want my thread to be active. I monitor it and respond to questions and the more active it is, the more interest in my product there is.

As for shills, the seller most likely summoned them there with an incentive or because they're buddies and having a rating system isn't going to stop people from voicing their opinions in the thread. You'd be very likely to end up with a really dead listing if you eliminate all the chatter in the listings.

If I want to get past the shills in a thread for a product that I'm interested in, I read the thread from the last page to the beginning. The shills are usually only on the first couple of pages.

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James Campbell

10 years ago

@Alaister

I realize you guys are based in Australia, however you may still want to abide by the CAN-SPAM regulations when you send out "newsletters" *cough promotions *cough

Not including a proper mailing address at within your email violates parts of the CAN-SPAM regulations, so be sure to fix that on your template.

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LiftMyRank

10 years ago

The difference between a normal web business and a forum is a forum is more of a democracy where the customers have strong sway in the community unlike other web businesses where management dictate 100% the site content and direction of the product, so I think if management can do a better job at selling it to us WSO sellers we'd all be willing to jump on board and really get behind warriorpayments, it does have potential to become quite big and I'm guessing freelancer have the budget and mandate to grow this as a long term asset, so if management could better describe how this is going to make us WSO sellers more money that would be great, maybe something like a $1 million+ advertising budget to grow the size of the WSO section, because if I'm going to be charged extra to sell here I want more exposure in return, warrior forum can easily be a top 100 alexa rank site and knock the competition out of the water to the benefit of us all if we all get behind it...

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Rod Cortez

10 years ago

From a moderation standpoint, many of the troll comments can be eliminated by simply using the process that's already in place: reporting them using the "report post" icon under every member's name.

I've seen enough seller threads over the past year where I deleted troll comments that were weeks or even months old because no one reported them (the mods cannot catch everything).

RoD

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barbling

10 years ago

Alaister, I'm test this out and when I previewed my test sales copy, I saw 2 attached files I had created and shared on the WF, hmmmm, 5 years ago?

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Russ,

There is no way to guarantee 100% that trolls can't post, unless you completely remove the ability for anyone to post other than paying customers leaving reviews. That defeats the purpose of posting an offer here, other than organic traffic. As has been noted, that's not a huge advantage these days.

You report the questionable posts, and they'll be dealt with if they really are trolling. Yes, some may cost a few sales while waiting in the mod queue, but proper responses from sellers can mitigate most or all of that. And, not to put too fine a point on it, we said for years that this shouldn't be too critical a part of anyone's business.

But I don't see a problem with having sales questions asked and answered privately. Actually I've seen many vendors answering questions privately using the existing private message feature.

Some should be asked privately. Most are fine for public posting.

A lot of times, the way a seller responds to questions is an important factor in the prospective customer's decision. People know that someone who flames out over every little question is less likely to provide good customer service than someone who answers respectfully and clearly.

It's a social system. If you engineer the people out of the process, you might as well just self-host.

Paul

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

After reading some of the posts, I take it some people just don't like questions that doesn't go their way. You'll accept all the ass kissing, but don't want people questioning your product? I mean what is a troll? Someone who has doubts about your claims or products? Someone with presale questions?

Maybe they should give sellers, moderator panels, so they can delete the comments they don't want on the sales thread. Sellers are quick to quote and point out all the ass kissers, but stare at their computer screen with a scowl when someone says something they don't like

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Rod Cortez

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

After reading some of the posts, I take it some people just don't like questions that doesn't go their way. You'll accept all the ass kissing, but don't want people questioning your product? I mean what is a troll? Someone who has doubts about your claims or products? Someone with presale questions?

From a moderation standpoint, a troll is someone who has not purchased the product or service and does not have a legitimate sales question. In many cases, they are bashing the seller for no good reason OR they doing something inappropriate such as attacking the sales process.

I delete those on sight. For repeat offenders they get a warning and some time off.

Legitimate sales questions are totally allowed. There have been times when a seller has reported someone's post as trolling or being "unreasonable" and, when looking it over, they are asking a reasonable pre-sales or sales question, so we don't delete it. You're not seeing the whole picture here.

Don't even get me started on people creating additional accounts just to bash a competitor or a WSO seller out of pure spite.

Maybe they should give sellers, moderator panels, so they can delete the comments they don't want on the sales thread. Sellers are quick to quote and point out all the ass kissers, but stare at their computer screen with a scowl when someone says something they don't like

Not that's just silly.

RoD

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Alex,

Maybe they should give sellers, moderator panels, so they can delete the comments they don't want on the sales thread

A few sellers have suggested this as a serious option. A couple said they were going to go elsewhere if they didn't get that or an equivalent option. My response to the latter was along the lines of "Best of luck in your new sales channels."

As far as "what's a troll," I believe Russ means "people who post negative comments for the express purpose of damaging a seller or an offer." Especially people who keep after a point with constant escalation and argument.

He isn't talking about tough but legitimate questions that would be asked by a sensible person actually considering the purchase. There are sellers in this thread, though, who mean exactly that. Or just "I don't like this question." They might not say it that way, but when you see the reports, that's the real operating standard they want.

Sales threads allow a certain type of discussion, but they're not meant to be open discussions like occur in most of the rest of the forum. As soon as someone gets off the topic of "is this product something I should buy," the posts should be deleted. Posts that debate a technique should also be removed in most cases, as that's an area so often abused by trolls.

Paul
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Alex Blades

10 years ago

From a moderation standpoint, a troll is someone who has not purchased the product or service and does not have a legitimate sales question. In many cases, they are bashing the seller for no good reason OR they doing something inappropriate such as attacking the sales process.

That is what most people consider a troll, but I guess some people take it a little further and include people with legitimate questions

Not that's just silly.

I was just being sarcastic, but I'm sure there are plenty of sellers who wouldn't mind moderating their own sales thread

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Rod Cortez

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

That is what most people consider a troll, but I guess some people take it a little further and include people with legitimate questions

Yes, some sellers do and we make it a point to keep those questions and we private message the seller when necessary to inform them we are not deleting the post with the reason why.

RoD

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Alaister ... you probably could have stirred up a lot more participation and excitement for the platform if you offered free listings for a month. You are essentially forcing people to pay for beta testing an incomplete payment/affiliate platform for you.

I get your point, and it's a good one, but "free" would create another problem. For those who do not elect to use Warrior Payments, free to post WSO would push their paid thread off the first page in heartbeat. The free threads would have to be greatly limited in number, but any number would be unfair to the buyers.

@ Rus
Publicly posted sales questions not only help the person asking the question, but they often help others contemplating buying. A question someone else asks that they didn't think to ask can help them decide to buy, or not to buy. Informed decisions help the seller and the buyer.

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GarrieWilson

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I get your point, and it's a good one, but "free" would create another problem. For those who do not elect to use Warrior Payments, free to post WSO would push their paid thread off the first page in heartbeat. The free threads would have to be greatly limited in number, but any number would be unfair to the buyers.

Pretty sure by free she meant to waive the 2% fee for WSO Payments. Not WSOs themselves.

-g

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Stephen,

They don't count country of origin for or against a sender. For one thing, it's meaningless, given the use of proxies. For another, it ignores the ratio of good senders to bad. And then there's the fact that spammers are a small portion of the senders from almost any country.

And yeah. I like the definition of UBE. Not a lot of weasel room in that one.

At this point, non-trap blocks are largely based on complaint ratios, user interaction, and user management of mail by sender. "Not spam" reports, move to inbox, and the like. Confirmed opt-in vs single opt-in doesn't often become a factor, unless you get targeted by someone who has a list of spamtrap addresses to pump into your subscription forms. At that point, it can be the difference between rolling along with no problems and getting your mail blocked outright.

Allowing the sale of spamware or openly supporting the sending of UBE is all the strikes you need to get a Spamhaus block.

Believe it... they hurt.

Paul
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- superman50 10 years ago
  
  80% recommended commission for WSOTD consideration? Does that come with a jar of Vaseline each time I make a sale?
  
  Second that, this is why I'm still sticking to warriorplus and don't bother to move. The 80% recommended commission make warriorpayments look like a hungry greedy giant. Sorry but thats my thought.
  
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  Nelson
  
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Alex Blades

10 years ago

A few sellers have suggested this as a serious option. A couple said they were going to go elsewhere if they didn't get that or an equivalent option. My response to the latter was along the lines of "Best of luck in your new sales channels."

Not surprised at all, people make stupid demands all the time.

As far as "what's a troll," I believe Russ means "people who post negative comments for the express purpose of damaging a seller or an offer." Especially people who keep after a point with constant escalation and argument.

He isn't talking about tough but legitimate questions that would be asked by a sensible person actually considering the purchase. There are sellers in this thread, though, who mean exactly that. Or just "I don't like this question." They might not say it that way, but when you see the reports, that's the real operating standard they want.

Sales threads allow a certain type of discussion, but they're not meant to be open discussions like occur in most of the rest of the forum. As soon as someone gets off the topic of "is this product something I should buy," the posts should be deleted. Posts that debate a technique should also be removed in most cases, as that's an area so often abused by trolls.

I think if they install a support chat screen on the Sales thread, it would clear up alot of the clutter and stupid questions on a thread. They can even charge like $5 to have it as an add on. So instead of have 4-5 pages of "where is the download transaction# 1234567890382" that would clear up the thread for real reviews.

From what I've seen, the trolling has gone down alot. People are scared to get banned, even people that leave bad reviews make it a point to say they bought the product. There will always be trolls, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Alex,

A chat system would probably generate as many complaints as it prevents. We already get nutballs who ask a question at 3 AM in the seller's time zone and go nuts posting and emailing and sending complaints to the mods if they don't get a response within 20 minutes.

I'd hate to see the demands for instant answers that would accompany a chat window. People lose perspective about those in much the same way they do with text messages.

The trolling was never as bad as it's sometimes been said to be. Most of that stuff got started by a few people who believed they had the right to abuse their customers and not get any flack back. That sensitized some people to the question, and they started looking at questions as complaints and tough questions as trolling.

In the entire time I moderated, there were, I believe, only 3 people I had to put limits on as far as posts in the WSO section. They were told their questions should be sent privately, and they only got one post in any thread, to review a product they had bought.

A few people have been perma-banned or given timeouts for persistent trolling, but it just isn't the issue many people want to believe it is. It's up there in the mythology with "There's no point in posting negative reviews because the mods delete them all." That's easily disproved just by looking at a few threads, but it's a lie that's been given some persistence by frequent repetition.

One fairly common issue is requests for proof of income claims or promises. I'm not sure it would even be legal to delete a politely phrased request for proof of either. (Need a lawyer to answer that one, and I ain't.) Most of those questions are legit. A few are absurd, and lead to constant arguments, but they're the minority. A LOT of sellers report all of these as trolling, when they're really just requests to comply with the questioner's understanding of the law.

I've long said I believe income claims and promises of specific results should be banned in that section. The very same sellers who report people for asking for proof are the loudest opponents of that idea. Says something...

Paul
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Alex Blades

10 years ago

A chat system would probably generate as many complaints as it prevents. We already get nutballs who ask a question at 3 AM in the seller's time zone and go nuts posting and emailing and sending complaints to the mods if they don't get a response within 20 minutes.

When the seller is offline, the chat window will read "support is offline, click here to open a support ticket"

The trolling was never as bad as it's sometimes been said to be. Most of that stuff got started by a few people who believed they had the right to abuse their customers and not get any flack back. That sensitized some people to the question, and they started looking at questions as complaints and tough questions as trolling.........

I agree 100%. People tend to lump questions that is not brown nosing as "trolling"

I think people not willing to leave bad reviews out of fear of retaliation is a bigger problem than trolling.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Alex,

People tend to lump questions that is not brown nosing as "trolling"

Some, but not many. Like so often happens, those people tend to be loud about their "issues," and folks assume the thing is more widespread than it really is.

I think people not willing to leave bad reviews out of fear of retaliation is a bigger problem than trolling.

That is a really uncommon result. I mean, REALLY uncommon. And better than 90% of what little of it does happen comes from 3 specific areas. (I'm not going to mention them, because it's very uncommon and it would be seen as stereotyping, even with that disclaimer.)

Paul
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Russell Pioch

10 years ago

What are the chances that non-IM products will enter the marketplace eventually, like the other platforms?

I've noticed one person in this thread asking about what could be sold here.

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WillR

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Russell Pioch

What are the chances that non-IM products will enter the marketplace eventually, like the other platforms?

I've noticed one person in this thread asking about what could be sold here.

I doubt it. If they started approving products or services that are unrelated to Internet Marketing then people would stop visiting the forum and it would serve to benefit no one.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Will,

I doubt it. If they started approving products or services that are unrelated to Internet Marketing then people would stop visiting the forum and it would serve to benefit no one.

I don't know how it happened, but a WSO was approved recently that sold software to scrape Facebook email addresses. Pure, 100% spamware.

If even a few more things like that get approved, the delivery of mail from this domain will be blocked at enough systems that the whole discussion will be moot. The early history of this forum is such that those are mistakes that simply cannot be made. Especially now that a noticeable percentage of sellers are using a forum-based notification system.

I don't get it. How can you nudge people toward using your payment system and then do things that create significant risk for those sellers? This makes no sense to me at all.

Paul

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kindsvater

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Will,I don't know how it happened, but a WSO was approved recently that sold software to scrape Facebook email addresses. Pure, 100% spamware.

If even a few more things like that get approved, the delivery of mail from this domain will be blocked at enough systems that the whole discussion will be moot. The early history of this forum is such that those are mistakes that simply cannot be made. Especially now that a noticeable percentage of sellers are using a forum-based notification system.

I don't get it. How can you nudge people toward using your payment system and then do things that create significant risk for those sellers? This makes no sense to me at all.

Although the forum has increased liability exposure with the new system, there have been noticeable questions about emailed representations being made about products, and now apparently product approval.

Numerous Warriors have faced legal claims for selling, promoting, or using FB scraping software. Facebook is ultra-aggressive in pursuing these issues and it doesn't matter whether you are based in the US or Australia.

Members have, of course, also lost their FB accounts, and also PayPal accounts.

One lawsuit or FTC action could ruin the forum. The risk versus reward should be keeping someone up at night. Maybe one should ask Allen about the reasons leading to his decision to sell.

Get it together guys. Noting issues like Paul has done are because we want the forum to succeed. The spam issue hurt the forum for years, and that was before numerous laws were passed about spam and accessing a site like FB for unapproved purposes.

.

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Chris Worner

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Will,I don't know how it happened, but a WSO was approved recently that sold software to scrape Facebook email addresses. Pure, 100% spamware.

If even a few more things like that get approved, the delivery of mail from this domain will be blocked at enough systems that the whole discussion will be moot.l

I think it is already too late. Every notification I receive from WF goes to the spam folder in my gmail account.

-Chris

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moneywithtim

10 years ago

Agreed with Ben !

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kindsvater 10 years ago

It would also help if there were a link I could give potential affiliates so they can easily sign up and promote my product.

I've had a couple requests, and these people have big lists to drive buyers to the forum. What am I supposed to say? Search around in the marketplace?

.
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TiffanyLambert

10 years ago

Just submitted my first one so I could relay to my list how it works since they're asking.

One thing that sucked. I did the headline and a paragraph and was enjoying the easy formatting option where it codes it for you. But when I clicked Preview Thread, it took me to the old school hand coding box. I tried going "back" in my browser and it wiped out what I had done.

Anyway, no clue how the affiliate stuff will work. We shall see! Sure wish WE could make it go live like on JVZoo instead of having to sit and wait for approval. That always annoys me.

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TiffanyLambert

10 years ago

Scratch that. Approved in mere minutes. LOL

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TiffanyLambert

10 years ago

Errr, it's not listed in the Affiliate area. I don't think? Can't find it anywhere. Does that show up later or is it not even a guarantee?

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Javisito

10 years ago

Would this new payments support recurring payment, dime sales and time based rise of price?

What I would really like is a feature where you can run a promotion for example three days and after that three days has passed price go up to a certain amount which the seller decide.

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Mark Hess

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Javisito

What I would really like is a feature where you can run a promotion for example three days and after that three days has passed price go up to a certain amount which the seller decide.

W+ does this. You can either do a dimesale based on time or number of sales (they even have a countdown timer underneath their buy button).

Look at 'variable pricing' when setting up your product: 2014-07-30_1031 - MarkHess's library

I'm sure Warrior Payments will implement the same sort of thing, it's a great feature, I've used it in the past.

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kindsvater

10 years ago

What if there was a WSO giveaway?

Buy 5 WSOs and get access to a giveaway package.

.

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kindsvater

10 years ago

The email address or transaction identifier of someone making a product review and rating should be available.

This would allow trolls to be identified who repeatedly nuke WSOs and give better context to their review. Similarly, if a buyer repeatedly gives 5 star ratings with the exact same review, that would give context to their reviews. Potentially, it could lead to the scrubbing of their reviews.

It would also allow a seller to "ban" the buyer, to the extent possible, by removing an unwanted buyer from mailing lists.

.

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GlenH

10 years ago

Alaister,

I strongly recommend that you set up functionality that will allow members who post WSO’s to be able to do ‘test transactions’

It’s frustrating not be able to check and verify all your payment links, and that the flow of your sales funnel is working.

It’s always been frustrating with Warrior +, because you can’t do ‘test transactions’ with them either. I understand JVZoo has a 'test' transaction function.

Take a leaf out of Clickbanks book.

As a vendor, they allow you to do test transactions by letting you setup a ‘dummy’ trial credit card. Which is a great idea.

But whatever you do, make sure you implement some sort of test transaction function option.

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Caleb Spilchen

10 years ago

Originally Posted by GlenH

Alaister,

I strongly recommend that you set up functionality that will allow members who post WSO's to be able to do 'test transactions'

It's frustrating not be able to check and verify all your payment links, and that the flow of your sales funnel is working.

It's always been frustrating with Warrior + and JVZoo, because you can't do 'test transactions' with them either.

Take a leaf out of Clickbanks book.

As a vendor, they allow you to do test transactions by letting you setup a 'dummy' trial credit card. Which is a great idea.

If you implement this one function, it will set 'Warrior Payments' ahead of the competition

There is a test transactions button in JVZOO

, I've used it at least 50 times for myself & other people...

Also, most people on a big launch will do a full test from the sales page and just pay someone to run through it... (Also been paid to do that).

However, JVZoo does have a payment test link that works.... Just saying.

Caleb

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barbling

10 years ago

There's also test transactions in W+ as well.

ALWAYS test your transactions before going live if you can. If you can't do it for a penny, have someone try to buy it but do NOT refund them thru paypal - that shows up as a refund stat. Just send them the money back direct FROM paypal (if you don't have the test-feature in your paypment processor).

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cynthialee

10 years ago

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roadies

10 years ago

I scanned this thread and can't seem to find the answer to my question... if I missed it, please advise.

Question is: When are fees paid? I'm used to WarriorPlus taking their cut immediately after sale. I haven't seen WarriorPayment take fees out of sales of my new product yet.

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