Aujourd'hui, nous sommes tous les Français

Banned 10 years ago

Journalist Douglas Murray tells the BBC "I think that a lot about our future freedom of speech depends on whether or not people think that Charlie Hebdo brought this on itself or realise that the people who carried out this attack are solely to blame and must be the subject of vilification from everybody, from all faiths in all of our societies."

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Richard Van

10 years ago

People in the media seem rather afraid to cast stones.

Why don't people just cut to the chase.

Rocco Contento, a spokesman for the Unité police union, said “it was a real butchery” in the building. He said the Charlie Hebdo offices were guarded and protection was increased in recent weeks because of fresh threats against the magazine, but the attackers had entered the building intending to kill.

Charlie Hebdo’s offices were firebombed in 2011 after a spoof issue featuring a caricature of the prophet Mohammed on its cover.

In 2008, Charlie Hebdo was criticised for running Danish cartoons caricaturing the Prophet Mohammed. The magazine defended the publication in the name of freedom of expression.

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DireStraits 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

People in the media seem rather afraid to cast stones.

Heh. My dad, brother and I were just discussing this yesterday.

Not to take this off topic, but although this place (Hull) has had its problems since WWII it's been heavily transformed with the unskilled migrant influx of the last 15 years or so. As ever they're largely clustered in particular areas (to what extent the council has had a hand in this, I don't know), but they're rapidly expanding out and anyone who isn't an ideological fanatic can see pretty plainly the effects it has had. Virtually no integration, growing division and attendant problems. It's like we're all in different worlds.

Apparently, Pearson Park, a mostly peaceful little Victorian park off Beverley Road, one of those areas I've mentioned, was some time ago the scene of a pretty violent confrontation between a contingency of the local Arab population and those of a "fairer complexion" (to use one of the media's pet phrases in reverse). Whether they were locals or European immigrants (not that it's really of much consequence) isn't clear because of the media whitewash which occurred seemingly at the behest of the police and aided by the morbidly entrenched, rampant multiculturalist dogma of the city's establishment. The police later opened a station in one of the old buildings within the park's perimeter, curiously accompanied by another one a few hundred yards away off the main road.

People talk about free press, public interest and duty - most of all establishment figures with a vested interest in peddling it. But I'm not sure "real people" quite grasp the frequency and force and apparent ease with which controversial stories can be suppressed or tempered on spurious grounds that only ever really come back to self-preservation and pure political ideology.
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mcfcok

10 years ago

Just saw a video of these Islamic terrorists executing a wounded police officer in the street. Shocking stuff.

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whateverpedia

10 years ago

Richard,

I don't think it's so much a case of protecting the guilty as it is getting the story right. It's obviously still unfolding, but it has been widely reported that the gunmen stormed the building shouting "Allahu Akbah" and "The Prophet has been avenged", so there's no doubt as to what the motivation behind the attack is.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Satirical French magazine Charlie Hebdo attacked by gunmen | World news | The Guardian

(Please forgive me if my High School French is a bit rusty - the title of the thread is meant to be translated as "Today, we are all Frenchmen".)

Yes, sombre message to the media and writers, they might think that they are right, with freedom of speeck, etc!

But if you are dealing with madmen, then rational labelling means nothing!

PS l thought that this was going to be a Spam thread, (didn't learn french) although Whatever... name was a concern!

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Richard,

I don't think it's so much a case of protecting the guilty as it is getting the story right. It's obviously still unfolding, but it has been widely reported that the gunmen stormed the building shouting "Allahu Akbah" and "The Prophet has been avenged", so there's no doubt as to what the motivation behind the attack is.

Yes you're right.

Just shooting my mouth off again.

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whateverpedia

10 years ago

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Rick Rodd

10 years ago

Hmmm... interesting topic. Now kids... just don't make this one too political, eh?

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Richard Van 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick Rodd

Hmmm... interesting topic. Now kids... just don't make this one too political, eh?

Kids? Not been called that since I was in school.

Depending how you look at it Rick, it could be a case of not getting too religious. Seeing as this very much appears to have been a religiously motivated attack.
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Diana Lane

10 years ago

Whatever the motives, a group of publicity-hungry people have sought to further their cause by committing a high profile multiple murder in public view.

And society rewards them by circulating a video of the event. I won't be watching.

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Rod Cortez

10 years ago

Are there any leads on those murdering SOBs? I hope they catch them.

RoD

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Karen Blundell 10 years ago

I was not surprised about this news - but very saddened

my prayers go out to the victims' families -

aujourd'hui, je suis Française - laissez justice soit faite
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Lucian Lada

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

Are there any leads on those murdering SOBs? I hope they catch them.

RoD

A police anti-terror raid is taking place in Reims, a city just 150 km from Paris, as we speak. See the latest updates here: Charlie Hebdo attack - latest - BBC News

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Cali16

10 years ago

My heart goes out to the families of those who were killed in this senseless slaughter.

Fortunately, 2 of the three suspects are now in custody, and the other has been killed:

One of the suspects in the Paris attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine has been killed and the two others are in custody, two senior U.S. counterterrorism officials told NBC News.

Authorities identified the three men as Said Kouachi and Cherif Kouachi, both French and in their early 30s, and 18-year-old Hamyd Mourad, whose nationality wasn't immediately clear.

Here's the full article: Paris Attack Suspect Dead, Two in Custody - NBC News

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

My heart goes out to the families of those who were killed in this senseless slaughter.

Fortunately, 2 of the three suspects are now in custody, and the other has been killed:

Here's the full article: Paris Attack Suspect Dead, Two in Custody - NBC News

That's interesting Cali.

Breaking news here and from an hour ago says one has surrendered and the two brothers are at large. I even just heard that on the radio on the way in moments ago. Not heard any of them are dead. Sadly.

World News - Breaking international news and headlines | Sky News

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Cali16

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

That's interesting Cali.

Breaking news here and from an hour ago says one has surrendered and the two brothers are at large. I even just heard that on the radio on the way in moments ago. Not heard any of them are dead. Sadly.

World News - Breaking international news and headlines | Sky News

That is strange, especially since that earlier report was "breaking news" over 8 hours ago. Apparently someone was given very wrong information. That's especially unfortunate, though, that two suspects are still at large. I hope they find them very soon.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

That is strange, especially since that earlier report was "breaking news" over 8 hours ago. Apparently someone was given very wrong information. That's especially unfortunate, though, that two suspects are still at large. I hope they find them very soon.

Same here, at least they know who they are. Apparently the younger of the 3 handed himself in after seeing his name mentioned on social media. Apparently.

I'd much rather your link had been true though.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

JE SUIS CHARLIE

Agence France-Presse

https://twitter.com/AFPphoto

More than a dozen great solidarity photos are included with this story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Charlie.html

Cheers

-don

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whateverpedia 10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

More than a dozen great solidarity photos are included with this story:

This is my pick of those photos:
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TLTheLiberator

10 years ago

How The World's Cartoonists Are Making Sense Of The Charlie Hebdo Attack

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Rick Rodd

10 years ago

Dragging the youth to some philosophy/ideal is downright despicable.

Most of my friends do political cartoons for a living, and they are very smart people.
Should've put the kid's talent to good use... rap or dance rather than shoot and kill.

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tagiscom 10 years ago

Yes, they, believe that when they die for their cause, then they will be greeted by 50 black eyed, attractive females, ready for ......oh, well the obvious!

But in reality they will get a very harsh life review, (and this is them initiating the review, not someone else), then spend some time at a lesser dimension than the typical one!

Then look forward to another 5 or 6 lives down here, probably some of them less than appealing!

But l might be wrong and they will end up no-where?

Although no-where is too good for them!
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HeySal

10 years ago

j'ai un rêve

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Chris Worner

10 years ago

Spotted!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wor...-1227178925700

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Yes, they, believe that when they die for their cause, then they will be greeted by 50 black eyed, attractive females, ready for ......oh, well the obvious!

You are twenty-two short.

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Kay King 10 years ago

That is strange, especially since that earlier report was "breaking news" over 8 hours ago.

I think OUR media jumped the stick on that one. There were complaints that "US officials were not fully informed"....which I thought rather unseemly. The comment I heard indicated it was "wrong not to keep US in the loop" but I think France has more on their collective minds today than our hurt feelings.

I hope they catch them soon - and I don't much care if they make it to trial or not. That was such a cowardly attack.

BBC News - Charlie Hebdo attack: Suspects 'rob service station'
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Richard Van 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

You are twenty-two short.

And he forget to mention they all have to be under age virgins.
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- ThomM 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Richard Van
  
  And he forget to mention they all have to be under age virgins.
  
  What they don't know is those virgins are actually nuns.
  
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  peterj 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ThomM
  
  What they don't know is those virgins are actually nuns.
  
  Yeah, nun of this and nun of that.
  
  These guys got sucked in under false pretenses.
  
  Edit: I'd be highly surprised if they have the equivalent of nuns in Islam
  
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  DireStraits 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by peterj
  
  Edit: I'd be highly surprised if they have the equivalent of nuns in Islam
  
  Oh, I'm sure they do. They call them housewives and they live half a dozen to a house, like some sort of micro-nunnery, I gather.
  
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  HeySal 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ThomM
  
  What they don't know is those virgins are actually nuns.
  
  And they are armed.
  
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  LynnM 10 years ago
  
  Got them. Charlie Hebdo suspects killed and hostages freed in French police raids
  
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  discrat 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by LynnM
  
  Got them. Charlie Hebdo suspects killed and hostages freed in French police raids
  
  Yep, I guess those two are being hand fed grapes and wine about now by those 72 virgins ! Or would that be 144 virgins between the two of them ??
  
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  Claude Whitacre 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ThomM
  
  What they don't know is those virgins are actually nuns.
  
  what they really don't know, is that the virgins are really very geeky guys.
  
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whateverpedia

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

You are twenty-two short.

Satire. One of the cornerstones of free speech - the right to mock.

Christopher Hitchens 72 virgins joke on Real...

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Lucian Lada

10 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Christopher Hitchens 72 virgins joke on Real Time with Bill Maher - YouTube

For instance, Islam says that Jihadists will have 72 virgins in their Heaven (or Jannat, as proof that we do research here). This sounds great at first glance; think of all the sex. As a Muslim, you wouldn't know what sex is like, but just think of it.

Except sex with 72 virgins is worse than sex with a 72-year-old. Most of the virgins will start to cry once you put your you-know-what in her you-know-where, which is a downer even for sociopaths, and maybe even a boner downer. Also, 72 virgins means 72 girls who couldn't fellate a Diet Coke. I'd take my right hand--even my left hand, over that any day

Source: Heaven is Hell | Animus Empire

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Satire. One of the cornerstones of free speech - the right to mock.

.

Yeah, in the US. We're talking about France, who has laws against those types of cartoons, publications or speech. It's called hate speech in France and that magazine was warned numerous times about breaking France's hate speech laws. In fact, if you utter a single anti-semitic word, you will be prosecuted.

I'll just link to my previous answers on the same topic

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9800411

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9800494

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9801218

The hate speech laws in France are matters of both civil law and criminal law. Those laws protect individuals and groups from being defamed or insulted because they belong or do not belong, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or because they have a handicap. The laws forbid any communication which is intended to incite discrimination against, hatred of, or harm to, anyone because of his belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or because he or she has a handicap.

Freedom of the press

The Law on the Freedom of the Press of 29 July 1881 guarantees freedom of the press, subject to several prohibitions. Article 24 prohibits anyone from publicly inciting another to discriminate against, or to hate or to harm, a person or a group for belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or for having a handicap. The penalty for violating this prohibition is up to a year of imprisonment and a fine of up to €45,000, or either one of those, as well as the suspension of some civil rights in some cases.

Articles 32 and 33 prohibit anyone from publicly defaming or insulting a person or group for belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or for having a handicap. The penalty for defamation is up to a year of imprisonment and a fine of up to €45,000, or either one of those punishments. The penalty for insult is up to six months of imprisonment and a fine of up to €22,500, or either one of those punishments.

The cartoon of the Prophet as a homosexual, kissing a man was both disgusting and probably just as offensive to homosexuals as it was to Muslims.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

The cartoon of the Prophet as a homosexual, kissing a man was both disgusting and probably just as offensive to homosexuals as it was to Muslims.

Whether it was disgusting or contrary to the laws of the nation is hardly the point. The point is that terrorists came in and started a slaughter over it. How would you feel if the makers of South Park were attacked by a group of fundamentalists Christians and murdered on camera to teach people a lesson about satirizing their religion?

If you find someone satirizing a religious figure more offensive than someone going in and slaughtering people over it -- that is a bit of a problem with priorities in my eyes.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Whether it was disgusting or contrary to the laws of the nation is hardly the point. The point is that terrorists came in and started a slaughter over it. How would you feel if the makers of South Park were attacked by a group of fundamentalists Christians and murdered on camera to teach people a lesson about satirizing their religion?

If you find someone satirizing a religious figure more offensive than someone going in and slaughtering people over it -- that is a bit of a problem with priorities in my eyes.

[reposted from other thread as my answer is the same]

Well Sal, it's good you live in the US ... sort of, because our speech laws are, in theory, a lot less restrictive than France's are, and that was my point. According to France's own laws ... not ours ... Charlie Hebdo could be shut down by law if they chose to do that ... which they did when the magazine first started and made a joke about Charles de Gualle. And then in 2006,after Charlie Hebdo reprinted controversial cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that first appeared in a Danish newspaper, French President Jacques Chirac condemned the publication and warned against such “obvious provocations.”

I'm not going to cite the French laws all over again, but I first heard of the French and their free speech problem when I was reading about fashion designer John Galliano, who was found guilty of making anti-Semitic comments against at least three people in a Paris cafe.

Now here in the US, you could insult 3 people at a cafe to your heart's content, but not in France.

The biggest threat to French free speech isn’t terrorism. It’s the government.

Everyone wants to jump on the free speech bandwagon and the "I Am Charlie" bandwagon. It seems a very popular stance and the "politically correct" thing to do. Thing is, I checked out Charlie Hebdo and decided that they don't stand for what I stand for, and that I Am Not Charlie, and don't want to be in that herd. As long as France continues to turn a blind eye to their breaking of their laws against insulting people based on religion, or in a less restrictive government, they can continue to do what they do, but that doesn't mean that what they do deserves my respect or my support, and you can disrespect what a cartoon magazine stands for without supporting terrorism, by the way.

I would never put those cartoons on a blog that I own. While I champion freedom of speech, I choose what speech I will promote and those cartoons do not make the cut.

I would post one of the most offensive pics, but it would likely be censored out in WF, so I will just quote

In reality, some of Charlie Hebdo’s most offensive cartoons would not be published in most parts of the world. Few media outlets would print a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammad crouched on all fours with his genitals bared or show the Father, Son and Holy Ghost sodomizing each other.

There are several articles that sum up how I feel about those cartoons

#JeSuisCharlie? No, I'm Really Not Charlie Hebdo: Here's Why
In the Wake of Charlie Hebdo, Free Speech Does Not Mean Freedom From Criticism
You don’t have to support Charlie Hebdo’s cartoons to support free expression

I think of myself as a staunch supporter of freedom of expression but I realize the disquieting truth that I could never publish some of the cartoons Charlie Hebdo did. It would go against every fiber of my being. But I will defend their right to exist and condemn what happened to them with every fiber of my being as well. But I just cannot say #IAmCharlieHebdo.

EDIT: Just saw this article and thought I'd post it
Kosher grocery employee, a Muslim, hailed as hero for hiding customers

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Whether it was disgusting or contrary to the laws of the nation is hardly the point. The point is that terrorists came in and started a slaughter over it. How would you feel if the makers of South Park were attacked by a group of fundamentalists Christians and murdered on camera to teach people a lesson about satirizing their religion?

If you find someone satirizing a religious figure more offensive than someone going in and slaughtering people over it -- that is a bit of a problem with priorities in my eyes.

Southpark REALLY insults the other world religions a LOT! Family guy, and some others insult them to, I think, a lesser degree.

But SERIOUSLY, not everyone is going to believe in YOUR idea of god. WHY do you even protect the idea of a mere "prophet" to that degree? ALSO, southpark only thought about insulting the Islamic "prophet". They actually tried to portray in an insulting way, and denigrate, the GODS in all the other religions!

Steve

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ForumGuru Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Satire. One of the cornerstones of free speech - the right to mock.

Christopher Hitchens 72 virgins joke on Real Time with Bill Maher - YouTube

.

Exactly! Some folks may not understand the difference between satirical comedy and hate speech.

Charlie Hedbo has been operating in the public eye in France for decades, and they are still operating today, so we can assume they are abiding by French law. In-fact the French president has said they will give Charlie Hedbo the protection they need.

I thought President Obama spoke well on this --> between the 4 seconds and the 1:30 mark he gets straight to the point of freedom of the press and freedom of expression:

President Obama reacts to the shootings in Paris...

And the French president:

"This is a terrorist operation, by terrorists, against a newspaper that has been threatened several times - and that's why we have to give it the protection it needs,"

French President Calls Paris Attack Act of...

Bravo!

Cheers

-don
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acc12

10 years ago

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peterj

10 years ago

Originally Posted by acc12

All these supporters of that magazine are racist. Imagine if a magazine created a cartoon of President Obama and made him look like a monkey. That would be deemed racist. This is no different.

Those cartoonists got what was coming to them and I'm very glad they are dead so they cannot continue their racists attacks on Muslims.

All this talk of "free speech" and "freedom of expression" works one way. I will no doubt be attacked for my view as it may be different from yours. As I say it only works one way.

We may 'attack' (is having a different opinion really an attack) you for what you say but what we won't do, probably, is come round to your front door and shoot you without warning.

They were a bunch of f**king cowards. they should at least have the guts to fight face to face like men. Shooting unarmed people, really!!?

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

JE SUIS CHARLIE

If the terrorists thought they were going to curb this type of satire they have failed miserably. Charlie Hedbo usually prints around 60,000 copies and has a circulation of somewhere between 30K and 45K. This next print run will be by far their largest ever at 1,000,000 copies with some help from French newspapers and The Fund For Digital Innovation, which is an independent trade group funded by Google.

Charlie Hebdo will publish one million copies next week with help from Google-backed fund | The Verge

Subscriptions are available through Amazon.com

Charlie Hebdo: Amazon.com: Magazines

Cheers

-don

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Midnight Oil

10 years ago

Originally Posted by acc12

Those cartoonists got what was coming to them and I'm very glad they are dead so they cannot continue their racists attacks on Muslims.

All this talk of "free speech" and "freedom of expression" works one way. I will no doubt be attacked for my view as it may be different from yours. As I say it only works one way.

Flying planes into skyscrapers, beheadings, shutting down hundreds of schools, school massacres, kidnapping schoolgirls and using them as sex slaves and selling them into sexual slavery, destroying mosques and temples and other places of worship, suicide bombings, putting children in suicide vests, car bombs, religious persecution and cleansings, lashings and canings, acid attacks, female genital mutilation, executing gays, rape, slavery, genocide, mass graves . . .

Yes, I can see where your extremist brothers are having a tough time expressing themselves.

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucian Lada

Source: Heaven is Hell | Animus Empire

Quote:
For instance, Islam says that Jihadists will have 72 virgins in their Heaven (or Jannat, as proof that we do research here). This sounds great at first glance; think of all the sex. As a Muslim, you wouldn't know what sex is like, but just think of it.

Except sex with 72 virgins is worse than sex with a 72-year-old. Most of the virgins will start to cry once you put your you-know-what in her you-know-where, which is a downer even for sociopaths, and maybe even a boner downer. Also, 72 virgins means 72 girls who couldn't fellate a Diet Coke. I'd take my right hand--even my left hand, over that any day

Hmmm, that is ok, the one that doesn't die honorably, will break them in first!

Unless there are a few victims in with them, then it won't be pretty!

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

I found this article fairly interesting...

Charlie Hebdo’s gross out cartoons are an ancient French tradition worth preserving

The whole point of Charlie Hebdo’s kind of humor is to remove fear, so that real conversation can take place without pretentiousness.

"Gargantua urinating on Paris"

Charlie Hebdo’s gross out cartoons are an ancient French tradition worth preserving – Quartz

Of course the French Prime Minister is standing for freedom as well...

French Premier Declares ‘War’ on Radical Islam as Paris Girds for Rally

“It is a war against terrorism, against jihadism, against radical Islam, against everything that is aimed at breaking fraternity, freedom, solidarity,” Mr. Valls said during a speech in Évry, south of Paris.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/wo...t-attacks.html

Cheers

-don

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hardraysnight

10 years ago

nous souvenons le rainbow warrior

more than a few similarities methinks

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derekwong28

10 years ago

Apparently, the woman still at large went from Bikini to Burqa

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Apparently, the woman still at large went from Bikini to Burqa

Are they SURE it is the same person? Wouldn't the person in the bikini be breaking a couple laws? After breaking those, why try to be so conformed in the other photo?

Steve

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DireStraits

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Are they SURE it is the same person? Wouldn't the person in the bikini be breaking a couple laws?

Apparently it's a picture taken earlier in their relationship, before the guy had converted her or at least consummated his brainwashing. I would assume the former, because posing dressed like that is probably "not halal" even for regular Muslims, as you say.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

Apparently it's a picture taken earlier in their relationship, before the guy had converted her or at least consummated his brainwashing. I would assume the former, because posing dressed like that is probably "not halal" even for regular Muslims, as you say.

YEAH! MALES, DO have a dress code ALSO, it just isn't so obvious, but they are NOT supposed to condone such behavior in women as he is doing here.

I certainly DON'T agree with that, but muslim clergy would likely not be kind.

Steve

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derekwong28

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Are they SURE it is the same person? Wouldn't the person in the bikini be breaking a couple laws? After breaking those, why try to be so conformed in the other photo?

Steve

Apparently, the minimum requirement for Muslim women is to cover the breasts and genitals. This is partly because walking around topless was common at the time of the prophet. It was still quite common in some muslim countries at the time of Ibn Battuta in the 14th country. He was shocked by that in Mali and the Maldives.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Apparently, the minimum requirement for Muslim women is to cover the breasts and genitals. This is partly because walking around topless was common at the time of the prophet. It was still quite common in some muslim countries at the time of Ibn Battuta in the 14th country. He was shocked by that in Mali and the Maldives.

Hi Derek,

Well, I spent a week in the Maldives and did not see any "uncovered" Muslims when I was there.

I know what the Quran says, and I also know the dress code that a very large number of Muslims adhere to is much more conservative than just covering the breasts an genitals.

Islam prescribes a more conservative minimum dress code for both men and women. In Islam, both men and women are expected to dress simply, modestly, and with dignity. A man must always be covered in loose and unrevealing clothing from his navel to his knee. This is the absolute minimum covering required. He must never, for example, go out in public wearing a short bathing suit. When leaving the home, a Muslim woman must at least cover her hair and body in loose and unrevealing clothing, obscuring the details of her body from the public; some also choose to cover their face and hands. The wisdom behind this dress code is to minimize sexual enticement and degradation in society as much as possible for both men and women. Obeying this dress code is a form of obedience to God. Islam forbids any sex appeal and physical allurement outside of marriage. In contrast, Islam encourages sex appeal and physical attraction for both men and women within the privacy between married couples.

The Islamic Dress Code | Masjid al-Muslimiin

A couple of translations from the Quran...

Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. God is fully Cognizant of everything they do.
And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to God, O you believers, that you may succeed.* (24:30-31)

O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful. (33:59)

http://www.masjidtucson.org/submissi...dresscode.html

"Hijab" dress code requirements can be quite strict, and this is where it gets a bit controversial with some critics and scholars with regards to what the Quran actually says. Of course many say this is all about modesty, dignity and honor, while others say it's more about social control and/or adding requirements that were never requirements.

The four major Sunni schools of thought (Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali) hold that the entire body of the woman, except her face and hands – though a few clerics say face, hands – must be covered during prayer and in public settings (see Awrah). There are those who allow the feet to be uncovered as well as the hands and face.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#D...uired_by_hijab

Cheers

-don

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Apparently, the minimum requirement for Muslim women is to cover the breasts and genitals. This is partly because walking around topless was common at the time of the prophet. It was still quite common in some muslim countries at the time of Ibn Battuta in the 14th country. He was shocked by that in Mali and the Maldives.

If that were the way it is TODAY, FEW women would complain about it. Apparently, with sharia, MEN are supposed to have more covering. The code is apparently much the same for women, except THEY are not supposed to bare their arms, shoulders, hair, or face EITHER. Of course I think this is more sharia than the actual religion, but the terrorists are fighting for sharia.

As for the dress code YOU mentioned, that is what it is practically everywhere in the US and europe. GRANTED, it is not good for most offices or business, but you could go to any beach like that. You could even walk the street, etc...

BTW it is clear that ISLAM has a problem even Judiasm has. In Judiasm, for example, many won't eat dairy with meat. One could debate a lot of things here, but they go to lengths not specified in the Torah. HECK, they also can't turn off/on anything including lights or the car from friday night to saturday night. They are really following the Mishnah, that is RABBINIC law determined from debate about the torah.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

10 years ago

Courageous Muslim Man Credited With Saving 7 Jews In Paris Attack

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TLTheLiberator

10 years ago

Wow!

Maybe world leaders didn't actually lead that huge march in Paris but instead conducted a photo op on an empty guarded street.

What the world saw...

I hear this is another pic from the scene.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Wow!

Maybe world leaders didn't actually lead that huge march in Paris but instead conducted a photo op on an empty guarded street.

What the world saw...

I hear this is another pic from the scene.

As I said, it is MEANINGLESS!!!!!! The world is trying to conform to UN wishes and the UN is towing the communist and islam lines. That is one reason why islam is getting such a foothold everywhere(right down to citizenship, jobs, laws, and sharia courts). So if they want to protest, it should be against the UN, internal community, or the external one. Even the FRENCH GOVERNMENT won't listen. If they were amenable to that, there wouldn't have been a problem in the FIRST place! A little protest like this, I don't think, does ANYTHING! And the idea that it covers such a TINY area? GIVE ME A BREAK!

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

This is just too funny. I wonder what all the people complaining that Obama didn't go to the parade will have to say now that it was just a phony photo op. lol

Paris march: TV wide shots reveal a different perspective on world leaders at largest demonstration in France

Paris march: TV wide shots reveal a different perspective on world leaders at largest demonstration in France’s history

Photo of world leaders in Paris may not be what it seems - NY Daily News

World leaders take heat for Paris photo op during march that some say is deceiving
The photos may have made it seem as if David Cameron, Benjamin Netanyahu and François Hollande and the other heads of state were standing at the head of the pack, but at the time they were in fact alone on an empty street, surrounded by security.

Critics Decry 'Hypocrisy,' Photo Ops of World Leaders in Paris | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

Critics Decry 'Hypocrisy,' Photo Ops of World Leaders in Paris
Many of those who marched for free speech are leaders of oppressive governments, say journalists

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TLTheLiberator

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

This is just too funny. I wonder what all the people complaining that Obama didn't go to the parade will have to say now that it was just a phony photo op. lol

Paris march: TV wide shots reveal a different perspective on world leaders at largest demonstration in France

Photo of world leaders in Paris may not be what it seems - NY Daily News

Critics Decry 'Hypocrisy,' Photo Ops of World Leaders in Paris | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

Maybe they should have photoshopped him in there LOL!, but that would present a whole new set of shrills and cackles from you know who and friends.

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Kay King

10 years ago

So you post that in all the threads about France?

It's called "security" and of course it was tight around those world leaders. Doesn't mean there weren't over a million marchers - just means there was more security than people thought.

I don't understand the "hypocrisy" bit. World leaders showed up - including several that are not on good terms with each other. Is it only important if the U.S. is there? Is it only worthwhile if the world leaders expose themselves to extremely high risk?

Have to wonder if our pres had been there - would it still have been a useless march? Probably not. Would having tight security around the world leaders make sense? Probably so.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

So you post that in all the threads about France?

It's called "security" and of course it was tight around those world leaders. Doesn't mean there weren't over a million marchers - just means there was more security than people thought.

I don't understand the "hypocrisy" bit. World leaders showed up - including several that are not on good terms with each other. Is it only important if the U.S. is there? Is it only worthwhile if the world leaders expose themselves to extremely high risk?

Have to wonder if our pres had been there - would it still have been a useless march? Probably not. Would having tight security around the world leaders make sense? Probably so.

Yeah, I heard netanyahu was asked NOT to be there!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Cg6sVAoYVNOxUA

And then France did a stupid thing. They invited the Palestinian president. YEAH, I understand the supposed reasoning of an APPEARANCE of fairness, and security, but you can bet that will NOT be how THEY see it. THEY will know that they were NOT asked, and were only invited because Netanyahu came. They may look at it as a cowardly act. And you are INCLUDING them! The whole point of the protest should be that you are AGAINST what they did, and will EXCLUDE them.

Normally I would be against what Netanyahu did, but I kind of appreciate it in this instance, and he might have been trying to do what the UN, and all of the governments controlled by it, never would.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Maybe they should have photoshopped him in there LOL!, but that would present a whole new set of shrills and cackles from you know who and friends.

Oh wait! He was there! I just found this.

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's called "security" and of course it was tight around those world leaders. Doesn't mean there weren't over a million marchers - just means there was more security than people thought.

It's called a phony photo op is what it's called and it puts the criticism of Obama not being there in a whole new light. No one has denied that there were over a million marchers. We now know that the leaders did not in fact, lead the march and that a President not wanting to be involved in a phony photo op isn't such a big freaking deal, now is it?

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

It's called a phony photo op is what it's called and it puts the criticism of Obama not being there in a whole new light. No one has denied that there were over a million marchers. We now know that the leaders did not in fact, lead the march and that a President not wanting to be involved in a phony photo op isn't such a big freaking deal, now is it?

Wait. I know we're going to focus on anything but the terrorists now but are you sure he knew it was phoney?

The US government has said that it should have sent "someone with a higher profile" to Sunday's Paris unity rally.

It comes after US media criticised President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry for not attending the demonstration.

So they said that because they knew it was phoney and they knew someone would find out?

Like I said in another thread. I think the terrorists have won this, they got to kill the cartoonists they wanted to, total mission accomplished and they've got us questioning what free speech is, whether we have it, the fact the cartoonists were wrong and a poxy bloody photo shoot.

Meanwhile while watching the binternets in the Islamic State I suspect they're having a jolly good laugh at us.

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