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Plenty of Fish discriminates against me. :(

by TimPhelan
157 replies
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I have used POF in the past to meet some great ladies, but it's owner, Markus, has gone too far now. After not using the site for two years I logged in and reactivated my profile. I kept getting "views" from ladies, but something seemed different. All the women were around my age. ( I don't have a problem with that at all as I have dated women my age or older in the past. )

I wondered what had changed though. Was it me? Was I all of a sudden too old for the younger women? So I did a search and again only saw women my age! There must have been a change I thought, so I googled "POF" and "age" and there was the answer. Markus had decided that he didn't want older guys bothering young women or vice versa and set an age limit on searches and messaging.

You can only contact people +/- 14 years of your age. There is no reason for a 50 year old man to contact a 18 year old women. The majority of messages sent outside those age ranges are all about hookups. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will get deleted.
Hey, let us decide that. And why set the limit at 14 years? Ridiculous. This is age discrimination! and it's BS.

Believe it or not, some women are attracted to older guys. In fact, it's pretty common and I would say more often than not is the case. It can be just a few years older, or 10 to 15, or 20 or more. It's also common these days for men to be attracted to older women, the "cougars".

SMH in disbelief.

[/rant]
  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    Claude uses the site: "Plenty of Dolphins" They have no such age restrictions.

    "It's not the women in your life, it's the life in your women" (Mae West's old man)
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      Claude uses the site: "Plenty of Dolphins" They have no such age restrictions.
      There's a blow hole joke here, but I'm going to pass.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        There's a blow hole joke here, but I'm going to pass.
        I keep telling you, it's just my navel.....but that doesn't stop you from trying to prove me wrong. Oh well, the money you pay me, comes in handy.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      Claude uses the site: "Plenty of Dolphins"
      I'd heard he has an active membership with "Plenty Of Crabs".

      Then again, both of those rumours came from Dan Riffle. Just sayin'.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        I'd heard he has an active membership with "Plenty Of Crabs".

        Then again, both of those rumours came from Dan Riffle. Just sayin'.
        If your not fussy, "Plenty of STD'S" is offering a free contact weekend and reduced rates. You have to use a Poxy server to access it though.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          You have to use a Poxy server to access it though.
          <rimshot> (I ran out of "thanks" ).
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

    I have used POF in the past to meet some great ladies, but it's owner, Markus, has gone too far now. After not using the site for two years I logged in and reactivated my profile. I kept getting "views" from ladies, but something seemed different. All the women were around my age. ( I don't have a problem with that at all as I have dated women my age or older in the past. )

    I wondered what had changed though. Was it me? Was I all of a sudden too old for the younger women? So I did a search and again only saw women my age! There must have been a change I thought, so I googled "POF" and "age" and there was the answer. Markus had decided that he didn't want older guys bothering young women or vice versa and set an age limit on searches and messaging.



    Hey, let us decide that. And why set the limit at 14 years? Ridiculous. This is age discrimination! and it's BS.

    Believe it or not, some women are attracted to older guys. In fact, it's pretty common and I would say more often than not is the case. It can be just a few years older, or 10 to 15, or 20 or more. It's also common these days for men to be attracted to older women, the "cougars".

    SMH in disbelief.

    [/rant]
    Tim; It isn't age discrimination. It's marketing, and taking care of his business.
    sure, there are guys that like older women, and girls that like older guys.......

    But I know that girls that are 30 are tired of fifty year old guys asking them out. The woman that is actively seeking a guy 15-20 years older than they are, is in the distinct minority.

    In fact, the site must have had complaints, or it wouldn't have made the change.


    So.......the site has to try to please the most people.

    I know little about POF. All I know is what you just posted.

    On Match, you just say the ages of the people you are looking for. Maybe that's a better place to look.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Tim; It isn't age discrimination. It's marketing, and taking care of his business.
      sure, there are guys that like older women, and girls that like older guys.......

      But I know that girls that are 30 are tired of fifty year old guys asking them out. The woman that is actively seeking a guy 15-20 years older than they are, is in the distinct minority.

      In fact, the site must have had complaints, or it wouldn't have made the change.
      It is age discrimination Claude. Can you imagine what would happen if he limited searches to your own race or religion? Would that just be "marketing"?

      I can get that some women don't want to get messages from guys much older than them, but here's a way to handle that: give the women the choice of who can view them and contact them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        It is age discrimination
        It's age-gap discrimination, strictly speaking, perhaps? I've never seen the site at all, but from what you're saying, what they've decided applies equally to people aged 25 and people aged 65?

        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        I can get that some women don't want to get messages from guys much older than them, but here's a way to handle that: give the women the choice of who can view them and contact them.
        I agree with this.

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I've never seen the site at all, but from what you're saying, what they've decided applies equally to people aged 25 and people aged 65?
          Yes, it applies to any age that is greater than 14 years more or less your own.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        It is age discrimination Claude. Can you imagine what would happen if he limited searches to your own race or religion? Would that just be "marketing"?

        I can get that some women don't want to get messages from guys much older than them, but here's a way to handle that: give the women the choice of who can view them and contact them.
        That's a good point. You just insert the age range your interested in, into your profile and you don't see anyone outside that age range viewing you or ever seeing you in the first place. If you don't set that preference then woe betide you if you get a hot, 18 year old cheerleader contacting you.

        That should be built into the script of the site.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        It is age discrimination Claude. Can you imagine what would happen if he limited searches to your own race or religion? Would that just be "marketing"?
        Tim; It's their site. They get complaints, it's a problem. They solved the problem the way they wanted to.

        And there are sites just for farmers, just for Jewish people, just for Christians, just for wealthy people, just for doctors, and (I'm sure) just for gays.......It's their sandbox.

        You call it discrimination, because you don't like it. But it's just adapting to what the most members want.



        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        I can get that some women don't want to get messages from guys much older than them, but here's a way to handle that: give the women the choice of who can view them and contact them.
        Of course, and if you could just choose the ages you were interested in, and interested in hearing from, that would be the best answer.

        But there are sites that do that. Go there.
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        • Profile picture of the author Formal Shorts
          This could have a positive impact. Perhaps women were deactivating their accounts as a result of being pestered by creepy old men. This way, more women might sign up as the site is seen to be protecting them from creepy old men.

          Now they only have to worry about creepy same-aged men
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Formal Shorts View Post

            This could have a positive impact. Perhaps women were deactivating their accounts as a result of being pestered by creepy old men. This way, more women might sign up as the site is seen to be protecting them from creepy old men.

            Now they only have to worry about creepy same-aged men
            It's a major problem on this forum.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Tim; It's their site. They get complaints, it's a problem. They solved the problem the way they wanted to...
          Right, and I don't like the way they solved it and I think it will hurt the site more than helping it. By the way, I am just showing mock anger in this post. I thinks it's more funny than anything, although I think the way they "solved" the problem is really stupid.

          But there are sites that do that. Go there.
          I already belong to another site that I like a lot more.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Right, and I don't like the way they solved it and I think it will hurt the site more than helping it. By the way, I am just showing mock anger in this post. I thinks it's more funny than anything, although I think the way they "solved" the problem is really stupid.



            I already belong to another site that I like a lot more.
            Mock anger, is my favorite kind of anger.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Here's the email he sent out. Apparently, being a hookup site for casual sexual encounters was not in his vision for the site:

    5/20/2013 2:50:50 PM
    My name is Markus and I created POF/Plentyoffish. When I created POF, I wanted it to be all about finding relationships with the right person. For the first 7 years this worked really well, I got the site to 10 million users without any employees people and POF was generating a ton of relationships. Around 3 years ago, everyone started using the website via mobile phones. Today about 70% of POF use is via a mobile phone and unfortunately about 2% of men started to use POF as more of a hookup site mostly due the the casual nature of cell phone use.

    In sticking with my vision that POF is all about Relationships, I'm going to make a bunch of changes to ensure it stays a relationship-focused site.

    1. Any first contact between users that contains sexual references will not be sent. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will be deleted without warning. This rule has actually been in effect since last month and it's made the site so much better.

    2. You can only contact people +/- 14 years of your age. There is no reason for a 50 year old man to contact a 18 year old women. The majority of messages sent outside those age ranges are all about hookups. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will get deleted.

    3. Intimate Encounters will go away in the next few months. There are 3.3 Million people who use the site every day, of those there are only 6,041 single women looking for Intimate Encounters. Of those 6,041 women, the ones with hot pictures are mostly men pretending to be women. Intimate Encounters on POF can be summed up as a bunch of horny men talking to a bunch of horny men pretending to be women.

    In short the vast majority of people will not be impacted. This is because the vast majority of people are not going around spamming women saying "let's have sex tonight". I can't change POF alone, I need your help to get the word out there that POF is all about relationships!

    Markus
    Interesting article
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizab...b_3381808.html
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      " My name is Markus and I created POF/Plentyoffish. When I created POF, I wanted it to be all about finding relationships with the right person. For the first 7 years this worked really well, I got the site to 10 million users without any employees people and POF was generating a ton of relationships. Around 3 years ago, everyone started using the website via mobile phones. Today about 70% of POF use is via a mobile phone and unfortunately about 2% of men started to use POF as more of a hookup site mostly due the the casual nature of cell phone use. "


      What's pretty impressive is those years he was doing it all alone he was banking 10K a day with Adsense !
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      Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        " My name is Markus and I created POF/Plentyoffish. When I created POF, I wanted it to be all about finding relationships with the right person. For the first 7 years this worked really well, I got the site to 10 million users without any employees people and POF was generating a ton of relationships. Around 3 years ago, everyone started using the website via mobile phones. Today about 70% of POF use is via a mobile phone and unfortunately about 2% of men started to use POF as more of a hookup site mostly due the the casual nature of cell phone use. "


        What's pretty impressive is those years he was doing it all alone he was banking 10K a day with Adsense !
        It is a great story and very impressive. If I remember correctly, POF was just a project to help him learn html or javascript and then people started to actually sign up. haha

        You just never know until you put something out there.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          1. Any first contact between users that contains sexual references will not be sent. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will be deleted without warning. This rule has actually been in effect since last month and it's made the site so much better.

          2. You can only contact people +/- 14 years of your age. There is no reason for a 50 year old man to contact a 18 year old women. The majority of messages sent outside those age ranges are all about hookups. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will get deleted.

          3. Intimate Encounters will go away in the next few months. There are 3.3 Million people who use the site every day, of those there are only 6,041 single women looking for Intimate Encounters. Of those 6,041 women, the ones with hot pictures are mostly men pretending to be women. Intimate Encounters on POF can be summed up as a bunch of horny men talking to a bunch of horny men pretending to be women.
          1 and 3 are no brainers. I have no problem with those. #2 is dumb. Like I said, leave it up to the members who they want to see and not see. The site I belong to has the age the member is looking for prominently displayed. Plus, there is a block feature that is very easy to use. Putting these two features together wouldn't be that hard for Markus.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            #2 is dumb.
            Would you like your 18 year old daughter being contacted by 50 year old men?
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              Would you like your 18 year old daughter being contacted by 50 year old men?
              As an adult, shouldn't she be able to decide?
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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                I'm pretty sure that the owner was responding to the complaints by women on the site about getting so many purely sexual solicitations, mostly without the courtesy of Hi, How Are You beforehand. That, and the propensity for men to send pics of their penis when asked for a photo. It's actually pretty common and pretty disgusting if you didn't specifically want a photo of their penis. I used to use Match and that was pretty common.

                The age filter isn't the only change he made. The Huff Post article said that due to the "penis photo" problem, he disabled the ability for men to send pics, but for women to send pics.

                He also filters out any "first" messages with sexual content, so the old "hey baby let's XXXXX tonight" won't work anymore. They might have to get more creative in looking for casual encounters. Either that or just sign up to one of the hundreds of sites designed for just that.
                hmmmm, depends on the site?

                Some sites are new age, decency, etc, but next to useless. Other sites are into bondage, etc, and have the sexually explicit images, and are more for one night stands, and are also apparently next to useless?

                The second site also attracts, subcreatures, so it has it risks!


                Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

                I find it funny that people use dating sites when they could simply talk to the attractive people they see each day. It may be just me.
                Yes, online has been a waste of time and money so far, but l have to admit, l would have had a perfect match a few weeks back, but since she lived in England, it was pushing it for me!

                As for more local, l have a few admirers, most are too young, but there is one, l will try to open the door with, and take it from there, or not take it from there!

                Meeting someone who l am attracted to is easy, but that and having common interests is next to impossible to find?

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              • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                As an adult, shouldn't she be able to decide?
                How many 18 year olds are actually "adults" other than in a legal sense though.

                That is coming from experience. At 18 I was no more "adult" than I was at 16, even though the law said I was.

                Ask any father if he considers his 18 year old daughter to be anything other than "his little girl". He doesn't stop thinking that even if his daughter is a grandmother herself.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                  Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                  How many 18 year olds are actually "adults" other than in a legal sense though.

                  That is coming from experience. At 18 I was no more "adult" than I was at 16, even though the law said I was.

                  Ask any father if he considers his 18 year old daughter to be anything other than "his little girl". He doesn't stop thinking that even if his daughter is a grandmother herself.
                  I tend to believe if we allow people of that age to go to war, they are old enough to decide whom they date.

                  I understand the father thing, but still doesn't negate that she should be entitled to make her own decisions without limiting her options simply because people think a 14 year age gap is yucky.

                  We are just talking about dating. Hardly a life shattering thing.

                  If the parents raised her well enough, they should have faith in her decision making.

                  Besides, I had to quit the gigolo business because of the new POF age restrictions. That is why I took up software programming. Not as luxurious but pays the bills.
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                  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                    I tend to believe if we allow people of that age to go to war, they are old enough to decide whom they date.
                    Not to derail the thread but why is it some jurisdictions allow 18 year olds to vote, drive and get sent off to war, but don't allow them to drink alcohol. (That's mostly a rhetorical question BTW).
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              Would you like your 18 year old daughter being contacted by 50 year old men?
              Disappointed in that question from you whatever.

              I'm against someone putting a limit on adults to make a decision for themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    "the ones with hot pictures are mostly men pretending to be women."

    Seems to be a common problem even on here Priceless

    From the same Article
    "POF generates hundreds of thousands of relationships, and when subscribers leave the site, they let POF know who they left with.

    "We found that virtually none of them were plus or minus 10 to 12 years. Outside of that range, there was a very, very low chance of a relationship"

    The guy is an integral man, he even caught a real wanted bad guy, Seems he is looking at it in the way he always had. And like Claude said, they are doing what is right for the majority
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I'm pretty sure that the owner was responding to the complaints by women on the site about getting so many purely sexual solicitations, mostly without the courtesy of Hi, How Are You beforehand. That, and the propensity for men to send pics of their penis when asked for a photo. It's actually pretty common and pretty disgusting if you didn't specifically want a photo of their penis. I used to use Match and that was pretty common.

    The age filter isn't the only change he made. The Huff Post article said that due to the "penis photo" problem, he disabled the ability for men to send pics, but for women to send pics.

    He also filters out any "first" messages with sexual content, so the old "hey baby let's XXXXX tonight" won't work anymore. They might have to get more creative in looking for casual encounters. Either that or just sign up to one of the hundreds of sites designed for just that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      The Huff Post article said that due to the "penis photo" problem, he disabled the ability for men to send pics, but for women to send pics.
      Ah, that explains a lot. I kept sending women my profile picture and they kept sending back "yuck, you pervert" responses and reporting me.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Yeah, He was all alone and he managed to get it rockin.

    hats off to him for trying to keep it a good place for people instead of a fling site
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    I find it funny that people use dating sites when they could simply talk to the attractive people they see each day. It may be just me.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      I find it funny that people use dating sites when they could simply talk to the attractive people they see each day. It may be just me.
      It's about convenience and leveraging your time. Kind of like using a car to go somewhere instead of walking.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      I find it funny that people use dating sites when they could simply talk to the attractive people they see each day. It may be just me.
      Unfortunately, in the US, we are mainly reliant on automobiles which cuts down on chance meetings quite significantly.

      I do agree that meeting people in person is better. A lot of the things people say are necessary are often overlooked when chemistry is involved.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      I find it funny that people use dating sites when they could simply talk to the attractive people they see each day. It may be just me.
      I was surrounded by attractive and unattractive married people. I was never interested in married people. That is why there are so many places for singles to meet other singles. In addition, I was able to meet men that I probably wouldn't have met because they were in nearby cities that I didn't normally go to.

      All in all, once I filtered out the sleeze on my own, it was a positive experience for dating. Can't say I met anyone for the long term, but had some fun dating after a divorce.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      I find it funny that people use dating sites when they could simply talk to the attractive people they see each day. It may be just me.
      Dating sites aren't my thing, but it strikes me as a totally normal development in the Internet age. It would also be a natural preying ground for predators (as Facebook is), so security would be a major concern in them. Security is primarily why I never seriously tried setting such a site up (other than experimentally trying out some website-creation platform or template).
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      • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Meeting someone who l am attracted to is easy, but that and having common interests is next to impossible to find?
        How come?

        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        It's about convenience and leveraging your time. Kind of like using a car to go somewhere instead of walking.
        I suppose that if you're looking for women around your age, then they are fewer available and having to go to other towns/cities is necessary. I also don't know where you're living, so you may be living in an area with fewer women. If this is true, then it makes more sense. For young guys, however, there's really no reason to use online dating. But Tinder seems to be very popular among them.

        Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

        Anyone who looking for a partner will be looking in the real world by default. The website is a bonus.
        It would be great if that was true. But online dating websites are very popular for one reason, and one reason only: they let men avoid the anxiety of talking to a woman and getting rejected. And this is a huge anxiety for many of them.

        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        Dating sites aren't my thing, but it strikes me as a totally normal development in the Internet age. It would also be a natural preying ground for predators (as Facebook is), so security would be a major concern in them. Security is primarily why I never seriously tried setting such a site up (other than experimentally trying out some website-creation platform or template).
        My only problem with online dating is, as I said before, that it allows men to avoid confronting the anxiety/fear/dread/etc. of asking a woman out and getting rejected. You basically never get rejected online. I mean, yes, it's very possible to get a negative reply, but nobody will see it, and this is one of the biggest things why men don't talk to women in "broad daylight:" they fear others will see them getting rejected and believe everybody will laugh or think they're fouls.

        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        That is why there are so many places for singles to meet other singles.
        I don't have a problem at all with "speed dating" or with going to places where other singles go. You know why? Because it's a physical place where people actually meet. It takes some courage to do it. Online dating doesn't.

        Anyway, I hope I'm not interrupting anything.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

          My only problem with online dating is, as I said before, that it allows men to avoid confronting the anxiety/fear/dread/etc. of asking a woman out and getting rejected. You basically never get rejected online.

          I don't have a problem at all with "speed dating" or with going to places where other singles go. You know why? Because it's a physical place where people actually meet. It takes some courage to do it. Online dating doesn't.

          Anyway, I hope I'm not interrupting anything.
          Lucian ... you most certainly do get rejected online. It may hurt a little less, I don't know, but people get rejected online all the time.

          Speed dating ... have you actually done that? I can't see how you can get to know anyone well enough to form an opinion in a speed dating situation. I've never done speed dating, but meeting online and communicating online does actually lead to meeting offline if the communication goes well.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Lucian ... you most certainly do get rejected online. It may hurt a little less, I don't know, but people get rejected online all the time.
            Yes, but a big reason why men don't want to talk to women on the street is because they think others will see them and judge them. Talking to women on the street isn't really socially accepted, either, even though women like it, and there's nothing wrong with it.

            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            I can't see how you can get to know anyone well enough to form an opinion in a speed dating situation.
            The idea of speed dating isn't to know a person well enough - it's to see if there's any chemistry between the two of you. You can pick up on a lot of cues that you'll never be able to do online. You'll hear how their voice sounds, how confident they are, how they really look like, how tall they are, how they dress, how they smile, etc. You can do this online, too, but in real life you can't cheat with pictures that make you look good.

            Anyway, I think that speed dating or any type of real life interaction can be a much better filter for future meetings.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Speed dating ... have you actually done that? I can't see how you can get to know anyone well enough to form an opinion in a speed dating situation. I've never done speed dating, but meeting online and communicating online does actually lead to meeting offline if the communication goes well.
            Suzy,
            I think you miss the point of Speed Dating. Essentially, it takes care of the most basic necessity and the most basic pre requisite for most of us human beings in judging whether or not we want to pursue
            somebody : Is there Physical Chemistry with this person ?

            In those first few minutes it does NOT matter about personality, or flair, or temperament, or cogenality or any of that stuff. It is STRICTLY about Looks

            And Looks do matter. I do not give a rat's behind what anyone says.

            A person does not have to be Tom Cruise or Scarlett Johanson but there MUST be something about them ..a twinkle in their eye, long pretty locks, a beautful smile, sexy body or at least one physical trait that you find very engaging

            And Speed Dating takes care of that initial necessity
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Suzy,
              I think you miss the point of Speed Dating. Essentially, it takes care of the most basic necessity and the most basic pre requisite for most of us human beings in judging whether or not they want to pursue somebody : Is there Physical Chemistry with this person ?

              In those first few minutes it does NOT matter about personality, or flair, or temperament, or cogenality or any of that stuff. It is STRICTLY about Looks

              And Looks do matter. I do not give a rat's behind what anyone says.
              I'm more for getting to know someone at a slower pace. I have developed feelings for men before that I wasn't initially attracted to and also wondered what was I thinking after dating men that I was initially attracted to.

              Looks has never been the primary thing that I'm attracted to. It's always been more about personality, sense of humor, how they treat others, etc.

              I'd also feel pressured in a "speed" situation, where there is so little time to both make an impression and get a feel for the person you're meeting.
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                Looks has never been the primary thing that I'm attracted to. It's always been more about personality, sense of humor, how they treat others, etc. .
                Awww - are you saying that you're falling for me???

                Cheers. - Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  Awww - are you saying that you're falling for me???

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  You know I have, baby. But Frank .... I have to say this. Christmas is over.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    You know I have, baby.
                    So, you won't hold my boyish good looks against me?
                    But Frank .... I have to say this. Christmas is over.
                    I am Christmas, my dear. It should be plainly obvious to everyone by now. I tried to hide the fact with incredibly obnoxious behavior, but I'm low on stamina. Santa is a very old man. :-(

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                      So, you won't hold my boyish good looks against me?
                      I am Christmas, my dear. It should be plainly obvious to everyone by now. I tried to hide the fact with incredibly obnoxious behavior, but I'm low on stamina. Santa is a very old man. :-(

                      Cheers. - Frank
                      I'm just saying ... you could lose the monkey face now. A girl's got to have standards, ya know? lol
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                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        I'm just saying ... you could lose the monkey face now. A girl's got to have standards, ya know? lol
                        What 'monkey face?' What the hell are you trying to say?

                        Cheers. - Frank
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        You typed a bunch of stuff, it was all different words too, but all I read was "blah blah blah
                        Oh, puhleeze...

                        The thread is not about the correctness or incorrectness of dating someone far younger or older than oneself.

                        It's about a privately owned website that offers a FREE service setting parameters for it's membership.

                        A big problem these sites have are older men sending photos of their wee willie to young women on dating sites. That seems to happen a lot in the US - don't know if that is an international "guy thing" or not.
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                        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                          Oh, puhleeze...

                          The thread is not about the correctness or incorrectness of dating someone far younger or older than oneself.

                          It's about a privately owned website that offers a FREE service setting parameters for it's membership.

                          A big problem these sites have are older men sending photos of their wee willie to young women on dating sites. That seems to happen a lot in the US - don't know if that is an international "guy thing" or not.
                          It's something that they need to Tackle
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                        • Profile picture of the author discrat
                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


                          A big problem these sites have are older men sending photos of their wee willie to young women on dating sites.
                          I noticed where Claude gave a big Thanks to this assertion Kay made. ( Not that we have EVER talked about the reasoning of people giving Thanks here before lol )

                          I just wondered if this was self- applause in that he can directly relate to...uhmm you know the "older men"
                          thing ?
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                          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                            I noticed where Claude gave a big Thanks to this assertion Kay made. ( Not that we have EVER talked about the reasoning of people giving Thanks here before )

                            I just wondered if this was self- applause in that he can directly relate to...uhmm you know the "older men" thing ?
                            That is how Claude met Riffle.
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                            • Profile picture of the author discrat
                              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                              A big problem these sites have are older men sending photos of their wee willie to young women on dating sites.
                              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                              I noticed where Claude gave a big Thanks to this assertion Kay made. ( Not that we have EVER talked about the reasoning of people giving Thanks here before lol )

                              I just wondered if this was self- applause in that he can directly relate to...uhmm you know the "older men"
                              thing ?
                              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                              That is how Claude met Riffle.
                              Okay the Truth comes out.

                              I think I am going to bed on that one. But I might have to take me a couple of PMs to get that nightmare of a picture out of my head

                              And no its not the picture of Claude's thingy that is the nightmare. Its what Riffle did after he received the picture that is the true nightmare.

                              His buddies Scott and Charmin can personally attest to his degree of madness

                              The amount of Love he showers those two with is truly amazing !!
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                • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  Awww - are you saying that you're falling for me???

                  Cheers. - Frank
                  Frank, I hate to break it to you, but Suzanne confessed in another recent thread that she's in love with someone else - someone much, much, much younger than you (he's only 4 - so you've got some fierce competition!).
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                    Frank, I hate to break it to you, but Suzanne confessed in another recent thread that she's in love with someone else - someone much, much, much younger than you (he's only 4 - so you've got some fierce competition!).
                    Yeah ... talk about age disparity. lol.

                    (and then there's that Depp thing)
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                    Frank, I hate to break it to you, but Suzanne confessed in another recent thread that she's in love with someone else - someone much, much, much younger than you (he's only 4 - so you've got some fierce competition!).
                    Well, I don't really see how that could be a limiting factor. I am as adept at behaving like a 4-year old as any 4-year old I have ever known. Of course I do max-out at 4, so I'll be eating his dust on his next birthday. :-(

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                      Well, I don't really see how that could be a limiting factor. I am as adept at behaving like a 4-year old as any 4-year old I have ever known. Of course I do max-out at 4, so I'll be eating his dust on his next birthday. :-(

                      Cheers. - Frank
                      True, I hadn't considered that... In that case, you've probably just placed yourself ahead of the competition, because you're "young at heart" and of legal age!
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                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                        you're "young at heart"
                        Tell that to my 3rd and most likely, last pacemaker/defibrillator. :-)

                        Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                    I hate to break it to you, but Suzanne confessed in another recent thread that she's in love with someone else - someone much, much, much younger than you (he's only 4
                    Well, I'm pretty sure that wasn't a match made on POF, then, given their narrow-minded maximum age-differential of 14 years: that would have to make Suzanne 18 now, which doesn't sound quite right, somehow, for someone thrice divorced?


                    .
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                    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                      Well, I'm pretty sure that wasn't a match made on POF, then, given their narrow-minded maximum age-differential of 14 years: that would have to make Suzanne 18 now, which doesn't sound quite right, somehow, for someone thrice divorced?
                      LOL, Alexa. No, that one was via WF (the boy's father is a member here and shares stories, and, if I recall, has posted photos from time to time of his adorable son.)
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                      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                        LOL, Alexa. No, that one was via WF (the boy's father is a member here and shares stories, and, if I recall, has posted photos from time to time of his adorable son.)
                        And, I think the adorable son is still 4.

                        (When I was 6, I developed a huge crush on my distant cousin's
                        20ish girlfriend during their short visit to my home.)
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                      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                        LOL, Alexa. No, that one was via WF (the boy's father is a member here and shares stories, and, if I recall, has posted photos from time to time of his adorable son.)
                        Oooh, yes, of course, I should have realised.

                        T-bird's son (4). Most understandable: I'm one of his many admirers, myself.


                        .
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


                Looks has never been the primary thing that I'm attracted to. It's always been more about personality, sense of humor, how they treat others, etc.

                .
                Not the PRIMARY, but with most people it is the INITIAL thing. That is just a common characteristic of how human beings were made.

                And sure personality, humor and all that stuff matters.

                But lets be honest if you find a person from afar very repulsive looking with rotten teeth, 500lbs, torn clothes and breath that smells like sewage you are probably not going to give him the chance of day to show off that personality.

                Also, I think that you can be totally not physically attracted with someone at first but later fall for them.

                But almost always there is some kind of physical admiration that is developed over that time towards this person. Whether that be a smile or even the way a person hugs you and the physical feeling you get from that hug.

                Iam not saying you are like this Suzy, but I get tired of hearing a lot of women say that all that really matters is the personality of a person and whether they are nice and have a since of humor..blah blah blah

                ...I say bullocks, truthfully they INITIALLY desire that huge adrenaline rush when they meet a guy who looks like Johnny Depp
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                  Not the PRIMARY, but with most people it is the INITIAL thing. That is just a common characteristic of how human beings were made.

                  And sure personality, humor and all that stuff matters.
                  While I would have zero interest in someone who weighed 400 lbs, had bad breath and other hygiene issues, etc., I have dated my fair share of men who were not considered handsome, even by my own measure and certainly not by other's measures.

                  I can't see how in a speed dating situation, that it would be a real often thing that both you and a guy or girl were attracted to each other based on a couple of minutes together. I would think that most men would be searching for a perfect 10, so a few girls might be very popular, while others barely got a nod, based on the fact that they were'nt a perfect 10 alone. In my world, Johnny Depps are nothing more than celebrity fascination ... something to dream about, but doesn't happen.

                  I'll give you a real example. I met a guy online and we communicated first by email, then by phone. I liked him so far. Then we arranged for a dinner date. When he showed up, I immediately wasn't that hot for his looks, but I knew a bit about him and his personality through our communications and decided to give him a chance. We ended up having a 5-year long relationship.

                  So what happens with all the leftovers? lol. They just continue to go to speed dating events and become leftovers once again? I actually had a lot of fun meeting men through dating sites and having dates with them after a divorce.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    I would think that most men would be searching for a perfect 10, so a few girls might be very popular, while others barely got a nod, based on the fact that they were'nt a perfect 10 alone. In my world, Johnny Depps are nothing more than celebrity fascination ... something to dream about, but doesn't happen.
                    That's an interesting insight. Except for a small percentage of single men, I think you may be wrong. Men may fantasize about beautiful women. But most of us have a comfort zone. And we are attracted to specific features, qualities.

                    Men are far more likely to click on a dating site ad, if the photo is of a slightly overweight woman, or just slightly better than average looking. Because they think that they may actually get a date with a woman who looks like that.

                    Of course, we are going solely by looks, which is a mistake.

                    I had a great long term relationship with a woman that wasn't my "type" at all. But her intelligence and humor made her more attractive to me.

                    And I get the attraction of dating sites. It saves so much fumbling and stuttering, try to find out if a woman is interested in dating. Once you know she is, it's just a matter of chemistry. And you can reject people that are obviously not a fit, without offending them.

                    I was soooo lucky. I own a retail store. One of my friends once asked "Why don't you go out more, and find a girlfriend?"

                    I said, "I own a store. Eventually, everyone in my area...will walk through the door. When the best woman for me, comes through the door, I'll know before she leaves"

                    And I did. I'm just glad I eventually won her over. And I'm glad she needed a vacuum cleaner.
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      That's an interesting insight. Except for a small percentage of single men, I think you may be wrong. Men may fantasize about beautiful women. But most of us have a comfort zone. And we are attracted to specific features, qualities.

                      Men are far more likely to click on a dating site ad, if the photo is of a slightly overweight woman, or just slightly better than average looking. Because they think that they may actually get a date with a woman who looks like that.
                      You may quite possibly be right. I'm 3 times divorced and now permanently single, so claim to know nothing about men other than you can get babies from them. lol.

                      I'm just going by my old high school gym class when they made you stand in line and wait to get picked by team captains for the team. I was chosen only when there was no other alternative. Never been good at sports and never wanted to be. But it was humiliating none the less.

                      So I projected that on a speed dating situation, where 5 minutes with someone who seems to not be in the least bit interested in you, or you them ... feels like an eternity. Do that with 20 or more people and go home feeling kind of crushed. lol.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post



          For young guys, however, there's really no reason to use online dating.
          yeah, no reason besides convenience, leveraging of time, meeting women you would likely never meet otherwise, the ability to sift through hundreds or thousands of women easily... Nope. No reason whatever. Lol

          It would be great if that was true. But online dating websites are very popular for one reason, and one reason only: they let men avoid the anxiety of talking to a woman and getting rejected.
          Good grief is that a load of crap.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Good grief is that a load of crap.
            Just because you don't know how basic male psychology works, doesn't mean it's crap.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

              Just because you don't know how basic male psychology works, doesn't mean it's crap.
              Lol. Thanks for the laugh.
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              • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Lol. Thanks for the laugh.
                Well, I wouldn't really expect someone who thinks he needs to take a cruise or visit other cities just to meet women to get it. Or who complains about age discrimination of an online dating website.

                Or Daniel, who deleted a post before I had a chance to reply to it. What happened, Daniel, did you get cold feet?
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

                  Well, I wouldn't really expect someone who thinks he needs to take a cruise or visit other cities just to meet women to get it.
                  Except I never said that, Mr Lada. I said I thought it would be fun to date while traveling. Geesh, you are slow.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Except I never said that, dumbass. I said I thought it would be fun to date while traveling. Geesh, you are slow.
                    Ouch, somebody's getting touchy.

                    Anyway, it may be just me, but I think "Thinking of taking a dating vacation" means, well, taking a vacation with the main purpose of dating. But maybe I'm slow, you know?
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

                      But maybe I'm slow, you know?
                      Yes. It's pretty clear. You made one of the most idiotic statements I have seen on this forum and that is saying a lot. Lol. You said "online dating websites are very popular for one reason, and one reason only: they let men avoid the anxiety of talking to a woman and getting rejected." Yep, the "only" reason. Just ridiculous. Slow is being generous.

                      By the way, I have no problem meeting women who live close to me. I don't need to go to other cities to meet women. I never said anything about going on a cruise to meet women. I neve said that the main purpose for going on a vacation was to date. Smh
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                      • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        Yes. It's pretty clear. You made one of the most idiotic statements I have seen on this forum and that is saying a lot. Lol.
                        Now, now, Tim, no need to get all worked up over something so meaningless.

                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        By the way, I have no problem meeting women who live close to me. I don't need to go to other cities to meet women.
                        Yeah, sure, that's what all men say. If that was true, then you wouldn't need to use online dating. Or maybe you need thousands of women? Then it would make sense.

                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        I never said anything about going on a cruise to meet women.
                        In the thread I referenced, travlinguy said you could take a cruise for singles, and you then replied with, and I quote, "That's a good idea also".

                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        I neve said that the main purpose for going on a vacation was to date. Smh
                        No, your keyboard did.

                        @Daniel: if men wouldn't use online dating, there wouldn't be online dating because women would not have a reason to use it. In other words: show men that they can actually talk to women they see on the street and get dates this way, and they'll all go, "Wtf was I doing online? Offline so much more fun."

                        Edited to add: If concentration of people was the primary reason why online dating websites are so popular, they wouldn't have members from large cities such as N.Y. But guess what? They do.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                          Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

                          if men wouldn't use online dating, there wouldn't be online dating because women would not have a reason to use it. In other words: show men that they can actually talk to women they see on the street and get dates this way, and they'll all go, "Wtf was I doing online? Offline so much more fun."
                          Offline may be fun for you. Not so much for people who spend 8 or more hours every day in offices with mostly married people and live in suburbs with mostly married people and don't want to meet people they have nothing in common with, such as at church and don't like to go bowling, other sports, etc.

                          I had a blast dating online. More fun than I've ever had hoping to meet someone offline.
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                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                          Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

                          In the thread I referenced, travlinguy said you could take a cruise for singles, and you then replied with, and I quote, "That's a good idea also"
                          Why don't you post the whole quote? Here's what I wrote after traveling guy made "his" suggestion:

                          "That's a good idea also, but I want to spend a good amount of time exploring a country. Plus, I can sort through women beforehand and get to know them better before we meet."

                          Notice the word "but"? It's a tricky little word I know, but what follows that word clearly shows I rejected that idea. However, you decided to leave out the whole quote to back your mistaken memory. To me, that shows dishonesty also.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            Notice the word "but"? It's a tricky little word I know, but what follows that word clearly shows I rejected that idea. However, you decided to leave out the whole quote to back your mistaken memory. To me, that shows dishonesty also.
                            If you wanted to reject the idea, you wouldn't have said "That's a good idea," but maybe I'm just being very slow today. Or in general. Who knows?

                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            slow boy
                            You're being so diplomatic. Tell me how you really feel about me.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                              One of the first things I saw when I moved to Ohio was an ad for a dating site my son and his wife had told me about. They thought the commercials were the funniest thing they'd seen for a while and I'd never heard of site.

                              Then I saw a commercial and totally cracked up. If you haven't seen the commercials on TV for FarmersOnly.com....you've got to look them up. The commercials are so dorky, they are cute.

                              I've never used the dating sites but I think the proliferation of specialized sites - for horse lovers, over 50, and farmers and travelers, pet lovers - is a great idea and a time saver for those singles who KNOW what they want.
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                One of the first things I saw when I moved to Ohio was an ad for a dating site my son and his wife had told me about. They thought the commercials were the funniest thing they'd seen for a while and I'd never heard of site.

                                Then I saw a commercial and totally cracked up. If you haven't seen the commercials on TV for FarmersOnly.com....you've got to look them up. The commercials are so dorky, they are cute.

                                I've never used the dating sites but I think the proliferation of specialized sites - for horse lovers, over 50, and farmers and travelers, pet lovers - is a great idea and a time saver for those singles who KNOW what they want.
                                Yeah, FarmersOnly is being advertised a lot around here ... in Farmville. Farmers are dorky, so the message fits the target, but I think it's a great idea. People who live in rural areas are a great deal more isolated. There's church functions, etc. but not much for the young single people or even the older single people around here..
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                        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
                          Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post


                          @Daniel: if men wouldn't use online dating, there wouldn't be online dating because women would not have a reason to use it. In other words: show men that they can actually talk to women they see on the street and get dates this way, and they'll all go, "Wtf was I doing online? Offline so much more fun."

                          Edited to add: If concentration of people was the primary reason why online dating websites are so popular, they wouldn't have members from large cities such as N.Y. But guess what? They do.
                          I referred to a concentration of people with a shared interest, not a general population.

                          Concentration of people with shared interest is the reason why I'd assume you are here on this website being interested in Internet marketing, rather than solely discussing internet marketing with people in the street....

                          This is the purpose and function of special interest websites.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                          Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post


                          @Daniel: if men wouldn't use online dating, there wouldn't be online dating because women would not have a reason to use it. In other words: show men that they can actually talk to women they see on the street and get dates this way, and they'll all go, "Wtf was I doing online? Offline so much more fun."

                          Edited to add: If concentration of people was the primary reason why online dating websites are so popular, they wouldn't have members from large cities such as N.Y. But guess what? They do.
                          You're making the assumption that men are not doing both, meeting people online and offline. I'm sure there are a percentage that only does online but we really don't know what those percentages are.

                          I do agree that meeting people in real time is best. You get a quick sense of chemistry and I love flirting which seems to be something of a lost art (see Suzanne's post about penis pictures) these days.

                          It does seem like many men are using online dating as a shotgun approach. The amount of messages many women get is crazy.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Except I never said that, dumbass. I said I thought it would be fun to date while traveling. Geesh, you are slow.
                    Tim; No need for that. Really, you should delete that post. You're a better man than that.
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Tim; No need for that. Really, you should delete that post. You're a better man than that.
                      That's just a term of endearment Claude. Just like when walking carpet calls you baldy and Joseph. ( god, I love those bald jokes! )

                      ps...I didn't delete the post but did change the term of endearment to something more formal and Claude acceptable.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        That's just a term of endearment Claude. Just like when walking carpet calls you baldy and Joseph. ( god, I love those bald jokes! )
                        Bald jokes are just a cry of jealousy that they can't pull of this ridiculously cool look.

                        Ammirite Claude?
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                • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
                  Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

                  Or Daniel, who deleted a post before I had a chance to reply to it. What happened, Daniel, did you get cold feet?

                  I reconsidered involving myself in the discussion as I felt you were off the mark by a considerable stretch and I was content with leaving you to your opinion. What I think is true of some males psychology is to go head to head in an ego war and I was keen to avoid portraying that since there's enough of that around these parts already.

                  In respect of giving you the reply I deleted: I think I mentioned, a dating sites primary benefit is its concentration of people who have a shared interest and intention and the fact that people can take a hit of rejection less harshly is but one benefit - not a primary one.

                  I think your comment towards male psychology and the fact that you only addressed males rendered your claim about dating sites untrue alone without having to elaborate further. I think it's equally as unfair to suggest that users of dating sites are socially incapable, or any spin around that suggestion.

                  Tims already covered why he uses the site and I think that's true of many people.

                  I'm quite sure many males would perhaps be anxious around 200 women in the real world and the potentiality of rejection by each, but that's not viable contrast as the real world doesn't sport that kind of opportunity.......yet dating sites do. Hence their primary appeal.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    "I think your comment towards male psychology and the fact that you only addressed males rendered your claim about dating sites untrue alone without having to elaborate further."

                    Yes, I was going to mention that also. I guess the only reason women join dating sites is because men don't have the fear of rejection online? :/
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      I find it funny that people use dating sites when they could simply talk to the attractive people they see each day. It may be just me.

      Internet marketers of all people should know why special interest websites exist and why they thrive.

      Online dating isn't anti-social and it isn't taboo anymore. It represents a huge chunk of the Internet.

      Anyone who looking for a partner will be looking in the real world by default. The website is a bonus.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cali16
    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

    And why set the limit at 14 years? Ridiculous. This is age discrimination! and it's BS.
    Tim, when I first started to read your post, I expected to see the age limit being something quite narrow, like +/- 3 or 4 years. But +/-14? And you find that ridiculous? Honestly, I'm shaking my head a bit... (And you'll probably take issue with my post...)

    You say "some women are attracted to older guys". Yes, a small percentage (if we're talking guys 14+ years older). In my entire life, I can think of only one woman I've ever known who truly preferred to date much older men (and I would consider 14 years as "much" older). It's just not that common. It's much more common for men 40 and over to want to date much younger women - and usually not for good (i.e. psychologically healthy) reasons, unfortunately.

    Most people aren't really interested in dating people significantly younger or older. The ones who are, I hate to say, often have issues. For example, men who only want to date much younger women tend to be entitled or narcissistic (women close to their age or older (heaven forbid!!) couldn't possibly be good enough, or they just want youthful eye candy), or they're unable to accept that they're getting older and need to be with a younger woman to make themselves feel better. Women who prefer much older men are often needy and dependent (they want a father figure to take care of them) or gold diggers. (The reverse of those - women wanting only much younger men and vice versa - also often suggests underlying issues)

    Men and women who are exceptionally fit, active, and / or youthful (for their age) frequently end up dating someone a bit younger (as they get older) because it gets harder to find someone their own age who's equally fit, active, and youthful. But even then, 14+ years is a stretch.

    Those are generalities and of course there are always exceptions, but in my experience, it's a red flag when someone only wants to date someone much older or much younger.

    14 years is a pretty substantial age difference, and in my opinion, is definitely pushing the limits of reasonable compatibility. So I think the POF guy is being generous in his age limits. Now, I'm not saying relationships of 14+ years age difference can't ever work - my brother married a woman 14 years older than him and they lasted over 20 years, although they're now separated (but still see each other - not sure they'll ever get divorced).

    I don't see any problem with the decision the POF owner has made. It's not "discrimination". It could, perhaps, be construed as "discrimination" if he said you (i.e. people your age) were too old or too young to join his site, although, since it's his site, he can set whatever parameters he chooses. The age limit is just one of the new rules of the site - and, again, it's his site, so he gets to make the rules as he sees fit.

    There are plenty of other dating sites that don't have that rule. I suspect you are in the minority of people who will have an issue with the age limit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

      Tim, when I first started to read your post, I expected to see the age limit being something quite narrow, like +/- 3 or 4 years. But +/-14? And you find that ridiculous? Honestly, I'm shaking my head a bit... (And you'll probably take issue with my post...)
      Cali, I think one flaw with this specific rule is that a 14-year age gap is far more significant if you're in your teens or twenties. Once you've reached middle age, you should be mature enough to get along (and have meaningful relationships) with almost anyone. For example, it's not unusual for a 60-year-old to find much in common with a 40-year-old. Under POF's ruling, that relationship would be outlawed.

      POF could address the issues it's worried about by having a rule that nobody under 35, say, could be contacted by someone 10 or more years' older, rather than enforcing a blanket 14-year maximum difference.


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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        Cali, I think one flaw with this specific rule is that a 14-year age gap is far more significant if you're in your teens or twenties. Once you've reached middle age, you should be mature enough to get along (and have meaningful relationships) with almost anyone. For example, it's not unusual for a 60-year-old to find much in common with a 40-year-old. Under POF's ruling, that relationship would be outlawed.
        Yes, perhaps I should have clarified. The age gap does get "smaller" as people get older - in many regards. However, a 20 year age difference is still a lot in terms of health and physical ability for older couples. Imagine a 60 y/o woman with an 80 y/o husband (or vice versa)... Emotionally and intellectually they may still have plenty in common, but physically and health-wise, the odds are very high that they're in vastly different places. The 60 y/o will most likely be able to do and enjoy a lot of activities that the 80 y/o simply can't due to his/her age-related physical limitations. (Perhaps that puts "40 and 60" a bit more in perspective, because that becomes 60 and 80 down the road....)

        Of course most people can "get along with" and have "meaningful" relationships with people of all different ages. But I wasn't talking about merely getting along or having meaningful relationships. I'm speaking specifically to dating with the intent of eventually finding a life partner, not just casual dating, hooking up for sex, or looking for new friends or people with common interests to hang out with (MeetUp groups are great for the latter).

        Maybe another way to put it is this: even the best marriages take work. Add a big age gap (or any other type of big gap), and it makes it even that much harder to get through the challenges. Just about every psychologist will tell you this.

        There are always exceptions (as I stated above). But time and again, big age differences generally don't work very well for committed, long term relationships. Just because a May-December couple stays together doesn't mean the relationship is good or working at all.

        POF isn't "outlawing" anything. If people want to contact and meet others a lot younger or older, and use that site, they'll just lie about their age (pretty common on dating sites). POF is just setting limits based on what the owner feels is in the best interest of most members, and the reputation of the site. I see nothing wrong with that - it's just a dating site, after all - and one of hundreds from which to choose.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          Yes, perhaps I should have clarified. The age gap does get "smaller" as people get older - in many regards. However, a 20 year age difference is still a lot in terms of health and physical ability for older couples. Imagine a 60 y/o woman with an 80 y/o husband (or vice versa)... Emotionally and intellectually they may still have plenty in common, but physically and health-wise, the odds are very high that they're in vastly different places. The 60 y/o will most likely be able to do and enjoy a lot of activities that the 80 y/o simply can't due to his/her age-related physical limitations. (Perhaps that puts "40 and 60" a bit more in perspective, because that becomes 60 and 80 down the road....)
          Who can predict the health of a partner? Or how long someone will live? And a relationship is more than sharing just physical activities. I guess I'm saying that 20 or 30 years of happiness is pretty good going for two people meeting by chance out of the billions on earth in the cosmic nanosecond of time allotted to us in this world.

          Of course most people can "get along with" and have "meaningful" relationships with people of all different ages. But I wasn't talking about merely getting along or having meaningful relationships. I'm speaking specifically to dating with the intent of eventually finding a life partner, not just casual dating, hooking up for sex, or looking for new friends or people with common interests to hang out with (MeetUp groups are great for the latter).
          I don't really know why people sign on to POF. Maybe it's to find a life partner; maybe they just want a relationship and aren't thinking too far ahead. I suspect the site would claim to cater for both groups.

          Maybe another way to put it is this: even the best marriages take work. Add a big age gap (or any other type of big gap), and it makes it even that much harder to get through the challenges. Just about every psychologist will tell you this.
          Perhaps it's fortunate that we don't have to consult psychologists before embarking on dates . But seriously, the odds of finding a compatible partner are already pretty slim. Ideally, one would find a partner within one's own age group, but factoring in an artificial age requirement just reduces the options.

          There are always exceptions (as I stated above). But time and again, big age differences generally don't work very well for committed, long term relationships. Just because a May-December couple stays together doesn't mean the relationship is good or working at all.
          I understand this - and from a statistical point of view, I'm sure you're right. But life is unpredictable. Relationships even more so. I think if a couple hit it off and go on to have several years of happiness together, that's about as much as most of us can hope for. I wouldn't deny them that opportunity because of potential health discrepancies in old age. I tend to believe you seek your happiness where you can.

          POF isn't "outlawing" anything. If people want to contact and meet others a lot younger or older, and use that site, they'll just lie about their age (pretty common on dating sites). POF is just setting limits based on what the owner feels is in the best interest of most members, and the reputation of the site. I see nothing wrong with that - it's just a dating site, after all - and one of hundreds from which to choose.
          Yes of course. POF can set any rule it wants. As you say it's just a dating site and I didn't really want to get drawn into a lengthy discussion about what makes a successful long-term relationship. I just think the site could have tweaked the rule in the manner I described before and still achieve its objective.


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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                Originally Posted by Francis Bacone View Post

                I'll tell you the same thing that I told cali, which is that if you're going to construct an opinion on this topic, you really need to have travelled and seen for yourself how things are. It always makes me chuckle when people just spout opinions on things that they clearly know next to nothing about.
                It is irrelevant what people do and like in other countries unless you are looking to marry across cultures. I have never taken people's opinions from countries that I never plan to go to into consideration when making decisions for my life. But the statistics on age disparity in the US and other countries is not very different in spite of all your travels, according to some studies.

                There's a study here
                The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage | New York Post

                and the data below suggests that there isn't such a large age gap in most marriages in many countries.



                Data in Australia and United Kingdom show an almost identical pattern.

                Relationships with age disparity of all kinds have been observed with both men and women as the older or younger partner. In various cultures, older men and younger women often seek one another for sexual or marital relationships. Older women sometimes date younger men as well, and in both cases wealth and physical attractiveness are often relevant.

                Most men marry women younger than they are; with the difference being between two to three years in Spain, with the UK reporting the difference to be on average about three years, and the US, two and a half. The pattern was also confirmed for the rest of the world, with the gap being largest in Africa.
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                • Profile picture of the author Francis Bacone
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                    Originally Posted by Francis Bacone View Post

                    What I'm saying to you is that age gaps can and do work very well.
                    I've already shown you the statistics on disparity in age in other countries not being all that much different from the US. Just because some marriage with big age gaps can and do work, doesn't mean that there is a majority of marriages with large age gaps to draw any conclusions from. In fact, according to the data, the majority of marriages fall well within the less than 10 year difference, and that is internationally, so there seems to be a preference for marrying closer to one's own age. Perhaps you don't believe statistics or believe studies either ... only what you believe you see when you travel.

                    Another article that analyzes Facebook data and shows the majority of couples being closer to the same age rather than the majority being a large age disparity ... internationally, not just the US, as you suggest.

                    Facebook studies age gap in couples - NY Daily News
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      I've already shown you the statistics on disparity in age in other countries not being all that much different from the US. Just because some marriage with big age gaps can and do work, doesn't mean that there is a majority of marriages with large age gaps to draw any conclusions from. In fact, according to the data, the majority of marriages fall well within the less than 10 year difference. Perhaps you don't believe statistics or believe studies either ... only what you believe you see when you travel.

                      Another article that analyzes Facebook data and shows the majority of couples being closer to the same age rather than the majority being a large age disparity ... internationally, not just the US, as you suggest.

                      Facebook studies age gap in couples - NY Daily News

                      Suzanne, you of all people know better than to present facts in the face of brazen opinion. Brazen opinion is always more factual and accurate than actual facts. At least, IMHO.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                        Suzanne, you of all people know better than to present facts in the face of brazen opinion. Brazen opinion is always more factual and accurate than actual facts. At least, IMHO.
                        I know ... I just love Google though and I got totally carried away. lol.
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                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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                        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                        Suzanne, you of all people know better than to present facts in the face of brazen opinion.
                        There is nothing on this forum that is more highly despised than actual facts. Opinion rules the day, and the more uneducated the opinion the stronger it is defended.

                        Sorry, but thems the facts, whether anyone agrees with my assessment of them or not. of course by not doing so, one simply proves my point.

                        I may be a strong-willed and opinionated, little SOB, but I learned long ago that it is the intelligent, well-reasoned individual that will always defer to demonstrable facts without feeling that they have been emasculated in any way.

                        The three words never spoken in the WF OTF ' "I was wrong." More rare than unicorn turds!

                        Cheers. - Frank
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                            Originally Posted by Francis Bacone View Post

                            Well gee, you did ask me what my background was. Perhaps you were hoping I'd say that I sit at a desk all day reading websites and statistics like you do. Some people actually know what they're on about, and don't need some journal to do their thinking for them. Maybe you ought to try thinking and seeing things for yourself instead of being spoonfed "knowledge". Go on, book your ticket. But no package holidays now, y'hear?
                            You don't actually know me or know what I do or don't do. You apparently think you know a lot about probably most everything. I know, I know ... you walked around streets and saw people. Some were old men with young women. Some were old women with young men. They looked happy. Who can argue with that?

                            And apparently you learned a lot of really cool international type manners while trotting about the globe. I know, I know ... no ass kissing for you. You just signed up and dropped by for a little friendly conversation, right?
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                Originally Posted by Francis Bacone View Post

                                Every word of that post is a classic sign of someone who has lost a debate. Why don't you take a break from all this thinking and go read a "study", there's a good girl.
                                You do know that posting in Off Topic won't increase your post count, don't you, troll? lol.
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                  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                    Originally Posted by Francis Bacone View Post

                    If you don't want to talk about what the world outside of the anglosphere echo chamber does, then it's not really a clever idea to mention forced marriages now, is it? Especially if you don't really know much about how things are done in the wide variety of cultures outside of your matrix.

                    But in fact, it is relevant what goes on in other cultures as there is nothing that excludes that in this conversation. What I'm saying to you is that age gaps can and do work very well. Maybe not in your world, but still, there are more cultures and people outside of your world than in it. I think that the opinions, experiences and lives of other ethnicities carries some weight, even if you don't. And by the way, who said anything about marrying across cultures? What I told you applies within those cultures.
                    Mr Bacone. Never heard such rasher statements as yours. The countries you speak of are either poor, or steeped in a culture of tradition or religion. The people are enforced and indoctrinated to do such things as to marry into rich families and arranged unions often with partners of a different age. This is not as it would be if they were were brought up with unbiased education, freedom of expression and thought. It would be totally natural for most to gravitate to partners of similar age. If, they had the freedom to do so.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                              Mr Back-Bacon

                              Perhaps then, you would like to give us a detailed explanation of why these countries have, as you perceive, such a marked difference in the marriage age gaps compared with places like the UK, the US, Australia and most of Europe.

                              Put up or shut up.
                              Generally speaking of course, but women in some countries find men of an older age to be more serious and men their own age to be more of a player.

                              Older men tend to be more successful and have access to more resources. Of course, this is important when talking about marriage and family. I think this is a big one because many of these countries don't have the support system for single mothers that we do in the west. In some of these countries, being single after 25 - 27 makes you a spinster. haha

                              Some places, like Russia and Ukraine, where age isn't a huge factor still have divorce rates as high as the US.

                              While I agree that age is a bigger deal in the US, that doesn't mean dating a man of 14 years or older is what women dream of in other countries. I still believe that most women would rather be in the 5 year range at most.

                              I have routinely done a 10 year gap but don't know if I would want to push that further. I am speaking relationships and not just dating. Dating wise, as long as you have fun, it doesn't matter since it isn't a serious thang.
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                              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                Generally speaking of course, but women in some countries find men of an older age to be more serious and men their own age to be more of a player.

                                Older men tend to be more successful and have access to more resources. Of course, this is important when talking about marriage and family. I think this is a big one because many of these countries don't have the support system for single mothers that we do in the west. In some of these countries, being single after 25 - 27 makes you a spinster. haha

                                Some places, like Russia and Ukraine, where age isn't a huge factor still have divorce rates as high as the US.

                                While I agree that age is a bigger deal in the US, that doesn't mean dating a man of 14 years or older is what women dream of in other countries. I still believe that most women would rather be in the 5 year range at most.

                                I have routinely done a 10 year gap but don't know if I would want to push that further. I am speaking relationships and not just dating. Dating wise, as long as you have fun, it doesn't matter since it isn't a serious thang.
                                Fair comment Thomas

                                What I am seeing though is these are attitudes that may be instilled into young people by the given society and its situation in regards to it's collective wealth/standards of living, morality, customs, religion, and social structure. Peer pressure based on that, a way of getting out of poverty etc..

                                Bacone may have seen this as being more prevalent but I do not not see it as a natural state of affairs, more imposed, indoctrinated and expected and sometimes necessary.

                                In the UK, US, Australia and much of Europe these conditions are far less so, so you see more freedom to choose, less pressure, more freedom of thought and expression, better, unbiased education. In the case of women, seeing them as second class citizens with less rights has largely been eradicated. Not so in some of the countries Bacone visited.

                                And, as the stats bore out, with this in place, more people choose to form relationships with people of similar age,
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                                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                  Fair comment Thomas

                                  What I am seeing though is these are attitudes that may be instilled into young people by the given society and its situation in regards to it's collective wealth/standards of living, morality, customs, religion, and social structure. Peer pressure based on that, a way of getting out of poverty etc..
                                  I think many of the reasons are more economical. It's more normal there because of economics. Like I said, I do believe women would rather have partners closer in age. Better possibilities will probably swing these larger age gaps to more normal ones.

                                  Bacone may have seen this as being more prevalent but I do not not see it as a natural state of affairs, more imposed, indoctrinated and expected and sometimes necessary.
                                  Hard to say what is natural. We are talking different countries with specific political and economical climates. So that may be a natural thing within that climate.

                                  From recollection, bad times here typically lead to lower divorces. I could be wrong but remember something to that affect. Are people happier or staying together simply because of economic reasons?

                                  People here make decisions based on economics as well. A guy in a band may be some fun but a guy with a college degree and a 6 figure income could be a better family man.

                                  In the UK, US, Australia and much of Europe these conditions are far less so, so you see more freedom to choose, less pressure, more freedom of thought and expression, better, unbiased education. In the case of women, seeing them as second class citizens with less rights has largely been eradicated. Not so in some of the countries Bacone visited.
                                  Unfortunately some of these countries do treat women as second class citizens. Sexual harassment isn't uncommon and there is nothing that can be done.

                                  And, as the stats bore out, with this in place, more people choose to form relationships with people of similar age,
                                  I agree. That is typically ideal along with someone from their own culture.

                                  To be clear, I am not saying large age gap relationships are not real. People in such relationships can and are in love. I am saying women are more open to getting to know someone who is older. Whether that turns into love or not is something else.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post




                  and the data below suggests that there isn't such a large age gap in most marriages in many countries.
                  Suzanne, that graph is using US data. Plus, it shows that about 9% of us marriages have an age gap of at least 10 years, which would have to be several million couples. Several million who wouldn't be able to meet on pof now.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Suzanne, that graph is using US data. Plus, it shows that about 9% of us marriages have an age gap of at least 10 years, which would have to be several million couples. Several million who wouldn't be able to meet on pof now.
                    The graph showed US data and the text below described other countries as being very similar in stats.

                    Tim, I'm not arguing at all your right to pursue any legal aged women that you want to and more power to you.

                    So, they can't meet on POF now. Time to move to another site. You've already said that there are sites that you are on that you prefer. Or you can use POF to meet women who are within the age range that the site now allows and the other sites to meet younger women. You did say that a couple of the women that you've had a long term relationship with were closer to your age.
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

      Tim, when I first started to read your post, I expected to see the age limit being something quite narrow, like +/- 3 or 4 years. But +/-14? And you find that ridiculous? Honestly, I'm shaking my head a bit... (And you'll probably take issue with my post...)

      You say "some women are attracted to older guys". Yes, a small percentage (if we're talking guys 14+ years older). In my entire life, I can think of only one woman I've ever known who truly preferred to date much older men (and I would consider 14 years as "much" older). It's just not that common. It's much more common for men 40 and over to want to date much younger women - and usually not for good (i.e. psychologically healthy) reasons, unfortunately.

      Most people aren't really interested in dating people significantly younger or older. The ones who are, I hate to say, often have issues.

      . But even then, 14+ years is a stretch.



      14 years is a pretty substantial age difference, and in my opinion, is definitely pushing the limits of reasonable compatibility.

      I guess Iam the anomaly as my wife is 13 years younger than me and we have been happily married for 8 years now with two kids

      Yeah, she approached me and asked me to dance at a bar in Nashville ( The Stage) when I was 37 and she was 24.

      The rest is history.

      It is just a number.

      I mean I put the limit at 15 years. That's when it becomes a problem LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        The last four relationships I had of a year or more all started online. All four contacted me first. Two were my age, the other two were 17 and 19 years younger. All four are amazing women in their own way, but the two younger ones are especially exceptional people who are highly intelligent, ambitious, independent women. One is a lawyer who now works as a diplomat for the state department in embassies around the world. Her first assignments were Pakistan ( Bin Laden was hiding just a few miles from her ), Israel ( working with the Palestinians ) and Afghanistan. Now she's in Iraq! She chose these countries. Just a brave, driven woman. Beautiful and a hell of a lot a fun too by the way. The other lady, whom I recently wrote about here, is even more amazing.

        To think that I wouldn't have met either one because of some stupid age limit rule an owner of a website arbitrarily comes up with just annoys me.

        By the way, both of the younger women had parents with age gaps greater than 14 years ( 15 and 25 ). One marriage has lasted 40 years, the other 27!
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Two were my age, the other two were 17 and 19 years younger.
          Such relationships, in spite of overall statistics apparently being against their long-term survival, can confer advantages for both parties, of which some "instinctively judgmental" people are perhaps entirely unaware.

          My parents have two sets of friends in stable, successful, long-term relationships with age-gaps considerably over 14 years between the partners' ages.

          One reason I think POF's rule in this regard isn't an appropriate solution to the problem they've noticed is that there's so obviously a huge difference between a relationship between a girl of 16 and a guy of 31, and one between a woman of 40 and a guy who's 55. In the first example, it isn't so much the age-gap that "matters" (to the people to whom it matters): it's mostly just the girl's age, pure and simple.

          As posts on the previous page have demonstrated, there were other, better, equally easy solutions available to the perceived problem.


          .
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          If the thread is about your right to date much younger (or older) women, I agree it often works out great.

          But the thread was about 'discrimination' and I don't see that at all. A privately owned membership site has the right to set parameters for those who want to use the site.

          Fortunately, there are LOTS of dating sites now and I'm sure most of them don't have the age restrictions.
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  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

    I have used POF in the past to meet some great ladies, but it's owner, Markus, has gone too far now. After not using the site for two years I logged in and reactivated my profile. I kept getting "views" from ladies, but something seemed different. All the women were around my age. ( I don't have a problem with that at all as I have dated women my age or older in the past. )

    I wondered what had changed though. Was it me? Was I all of a sudden too old for the younger women? So I did a search and again only saw women my age! There must have been a change I thought, so I googled "POF" and "age" and there was the answer. Markus had decided that he didn't want older guys bothering young women or vice versa and set an age limit on searches and messaging.



    Hey, let us decide that. And why set the limit at 14 years? Ridiculous. This is age discrimination! and it's BS.

    Believe it or not, some women are attracted to older guys. In fact, it's pretty common and I would say more often than not is the case. It can be just a few years older, or 10 to 15, or 20 or more. It's also common these days for men to be attracted to older women, the "cougars".

    SMH in disbelief.

    [/rant]
    Don't take it personally, Tim. They've equally discriminated against every one else there, too.


    Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      they are old enough to decide whom they date
      They can - just not on that particular site.

      I think the acceptance of online dating has led sites that aim to be serious "dating" sites using tighter regulations to protect both their members and their reputation as a dating site. If POF wants to be known for "dating" they need limits. Otherwise they end up with the sugar babies and their sugar daddies, cougars, predators and prostitutes that are active on many dating sites.

      It's not discrimination as you don't have the "right" to tell someone how to run their dating site. I quite often dated younger men - more fun, good shape, less baggage. I'm not one who thinks people must stay within a close age group - but a 14 yr difference is reasonable to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    That's the name of a dating site? Who dates fish?
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      That's the name of a dating site? Who dates fish?
      That site is a legend in Internet Marketing. The owner was probably the highest individual Adsense earner at one time.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        That site is a legend in Internet Marketing. The owner was probably the highest individual Adsense earner at one time.
        Well I'll be darned. Fish and dates...still sounds like food to me. It would be a good name for a fish restaurant.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        That site is a legend in Internet Marketing. The owner was probably the highest individual Adsense earner at one time.
        Yup. I went to POF once years ago, because I had heard that the Adsense rates were among the lowest available. But the demographic was wrong for my offer. But if I sold an Astrology course? That's where I'd go.


        I did research on Match.com though, looking at the typical post by a 20 year old girl, and a 45 year old woman.

        The girls at each age had incredibly similar posts. It was like every 45 year old woman, just copied the other posts. But there was a huge difference between the posts, at different age groups.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      That's the name of a dating site? Who dates fish?
      Plenty of Fish is an epic startup story. From the POF blog, an older post

      Adsense Breakdown

      Its coming up on 8 years ago in a few weeks now since I posted a cheque for 900k for 2 months of adsense revenue. I’m going to post the history of adsense from the day I added adsense to the site so that there is some context to how POF went from 1 pageview to billions. Keep in mind by the time 2006 rolled around this was one revenue stream of many. After I posted that cheque the site really exploded, 3 years later in May 2009 when I hired my first developer the site was doing 2.2 Billion pageviews a month and we are over 10 billion a month today.

      Thinking back now I am amazed I was able to do what I did. I spent at least 2 to 3 months of every year traveling, and during this time there where insane scaling issues. But somehow I still managed to create the largest dating site in the world without a single employee and travel the world!

      I constantly hear from people that the cheque i posted back in 2006 inspired them to start a company, I hope that this will continue to inspire people and for people to see success is not instant, it does take a little while and when you have a extremely successful company this is what the month by month looks like in the early days.


      A more recent article about POF earnings

      I caught up with Markus today via email and asked how the business is doing now. He didn't want to get specific about earnings, but he said that POF will earn $10 Million + next year (which puts it at around $30k per day). So just in earnings, POF has grown rapidly over the past year or so. As well as Adsense, income now comes from banner ads and affiliate marketing. A May Wall St Journal article has a good general profile of Markus and his company.

      There is one former fact about PlentyOfFish that has just become a myth - Markus hired his first employee a few weeks ago! This person is doing customer service, a task previously done by Markus and his girlfriend. So technically POF is a two-person company now, but that doesn't make quite as good a headline ;-)

      In terms of traffic, currently POF gets 1.2 billion page views/month, and 500,000 average unique logins per day. The peak season is January, when it will grow 30% according to Markus. I asked what is the total number of users that POF has currently, but Markus replied that total users means nothing in the dating industry. He said that True.com and others claim 20 million users, yet fewer than 100,000 people a day actually login and use those services. According to Hitwise stats, POF is second in the US online dating market and 1st in Canada and UK.

      What really pricked up my ears was when Markus started to talk about click-through rates and how that compared POF with Facebook. As you'll recall, Facebook supposedly has a valuation of $15 Billion currently, thanks to Microsoft's $240 investment last week. Many people are skeptical of the Facebook valuation though, because Facebook and social networks are known to be poor at generating money from ads.

      Markus told me that per page view, Plentyoffish has 5-10 times the click through rate of Facebook. So by his calculations, POF's 1.2 Billion page views per month is the same as 5-10 Billion Facebook page views per month. Facebook "only" generates 40 billion page views a month and yet it has a $15 Billion valuation. But the crux of Markus' argument is that despite having about 33 times the monthly traffic of POF, Facebook's poor click-through ads should bring the valuation models closer. Markus said that "over 40% of Facebook's pageviews are image related, ads in bad positions and users just generally looking to waste time." He said that "there are only a handful of sections on the site [Facebook] that will generate good click thru rates for advertisers."
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I'm 87% sure POF didn't verify your age.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Age discrimination refers to the actions taken to deny or limit opportunities to people on the basis of age.These are usually actions taken as a result of one's ageist beliefs and attitudes. Age discrimination occurs on both a personal and institutional level.

      On a personal level, an older person may be told that he or she is too old to engage in certain physical activities, like an informal game of basketball between friends and family. A younger person may be told they are too young to get a job or help move the dining room table. On an institutional level, there are policies and regulations in place that limit opportunities to people of certain ages and deny them to all others.
      Ageism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Seems like this is a pretty clear case of age discrimination. As the above definition points out, it can apply to personal levels. I'm not saying what POF is doing is illegal, just wrong.

      I realize this is a web site and that they can do what they want of course. I also realize there are plenty of other web sites to use, and I do.

      I'm pretty sure ol Markus will change this at some point to do something along the lines that I suggested. By the way, I have been a big admirer of Markus for almost 10 years and have frequently told his story to people, in person, who have asked what internet marketing is. POF is a great success story.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Seems like this is a pretty clear case of age discrimination. As the above definition points out, it can apply to personal levels. I'm not saying what POF is doing is illegal, just wrong.
        Well, according to his site stats there are a little over 6K who look for people with an age difference over +- 14 years out of the millions of people he has. He's pretty much said that he considers those to be looking primarily for hook ups and he doesn't want to run a hook up site, so he doesn't care if those 6K go away. After all, the site is free and he won't lose a dime either way.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Well, according to his site stats there are a little over 6K who look for people with an age difference over +- 14 years out of the millions of people he has. He's pretty much said that he considers those to be looking primarily for hook ups and he doesn't want to run a hook up site, so he doesn't care if those 6K go away. After all, the site is free and he won't lose a dime either way.
          No, the 6k were women members who were looking for Intimate Encounters. I don't think he ever gave a number for members who are looking for members +- 14. He did say "The majority of messages sent outside those age ranges are all about hookups.". I would think the number of messages sent on POF per year must be in the tens of millions. Does he read through all of these? Maybe he has the NSA doing the spying for him? lol
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            He did say "The majority of messages sent outside those age ranges are all about hookups."
            The point is that it's his site to make the rules he wants. He did say that there was an overwhelming positive response to the changes he made.

            Some will like it, some won't. I believe that people can choose who they want to date and that website owners can choose whatever policies they want to enforce on their site.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I think it might be age discrimination if you were not allowed to join at all.
    Other than that, it is a business decision they should be able to make.
    Like smoking allowed or not allowed should have been for Colorado bars and restaurants.

    In addition to all the other things people have mentioned, dating services and online
    dating provide an outlet for those who don't want to date through their work or profession.

    When I was young, I briefly dated (I really did date. Really.) someone I supervised. I felt
    very uncomfortable about a backfire -such as 'he's playing favorites' - and a possible false
    accusations thing. I think there are valid reasons companies have non-fraternization policies.
    I also almost always did not date via work in case things did not work out and became awkward.

    Another reason for dating services and online dating is, in my case, that I live in a small town
    and have met virtually all the eligible women. And, there is either just no chemistry, or they
    are crazy, and/or they have a drug and alcohol problem. I'm sure that is basically true for a lot of
    people. Plus, a lot of us work a lot and then just go home.

    Amongst mature adults, I don't really have an automatic age I think is too young, or too
    old. It's always been a mental and spirit chemistry thing for me.

    With respect to my 18 year old getting hit upon by a 50 year old guy, I'd be cleaning my guns.
    If I had kids, I'd also think it's wrong because I'd want my kids to not seriously date until they
    were on solid ground financially and career wise. It's just a smarter way to live and bring up
    children of their own. I hate seeing children whose parents are really financially strapped
    and the struggles the parent(s) and kids go through.

    Also, in the event a kid of mine marries a loser, divorces, gets widowed early, I want them
    to be self-sufficient.

    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I was cute when I was 4. Does that count?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      And, I think the adorable son is still 4
      Before long, he will be "almost 5"

      I was cute when I was 4. Does that count?
      Nope. All young things are cute at 4 - most grow out of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post




        Nope. All young things are cute at 4 - most grow out of it.
        Shucks.

        True. And 'cute' in adults usually grows old after a while.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      I was cute when I was 4. Does that count?
      No. Riffle was probably cute when he was 4 years old.

      Look at him now...Just look at him.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        No. Riffle was probably cute when he was 4 years old.

        Look at him now...Just look at him.
        Really, Claude. You are funnier than that. I would delete that post.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Really, Claude. You are funnier than that. I would delete that post.

          No, he's not.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            No, he's not.
            Yes he is.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Yes he is.


              See what I mean?
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Really, Claude. You are funnier than that.
          I think Brian might disagree
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            I think Brian might disagree

            I see what you did there.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            I think Brian might disagree
            Who is Brian?

            (Man, I just know that I'm going to regret asking)
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Who is Brian?

              (Man, I just know that I'm going to regret asking)
              I am glad you asked, because I don't know.

              You are right about Riffle. He used to look like a cute dog.
              Now he just looks - well - wavy.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Who is Brian?

              (Man, I just know that I'm going to regret asking)



              While in a semi-drunken stupor Friday night, I referred to Discrat as Richard on multiple occasions, rather than Robert. In turn, he's misappropriating my name.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Who is Brian?

              (Man, I just know that I'm going to regret asking)
              Come on CLOD "it means lump of dirt " Whitacre you are quicker than that aren't you ? .

              Little Brian sure would be disappointed

              And Dan shame on you for the same inattentiveness .
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              • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                Come on CLOD you are quicker than that aren't you ? .

                Little Brian sure would be disappointed

                And Dan shame on you for the same inattentiveness .


                Uh, now I'm really befuddled.
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                • Profile picture of the author discrat
                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  Uh, now I'm really befuddled.
                  Dan, this is a little disappointing as I thought you knew Claude inside and out. Not literally ( at least I don't think) but you know what I mean
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                    Dan, this is a little disappointing as I thought you knew Claude inside and out. Not literally ( at least I don't think) but you know what I mean


                    Apparently I don't know him as well as you do because I have no clue.
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                      Apparently I don't know him as well as you do because I have no clue.
                      I think Robert may have a taken a course at the Seasoned Cryptic School of Comedy.
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                      • Profile picture of the author discrat
                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        I think Robert may have a taken a course at the Seasoned Cryptic School of Comedy.
                        Okay, okay guys. Straight from the horse's mouth

                        Claude Speaking | ClaudeWhitacre.com
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                          Okay, okay guys. Straight from the horse's mouth

                          Claude Speaking | ClaudeWhitacre.com
                          Damn, that guy's great!
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                          • Profile picture of the author discrat
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Damn, that guy's great!
                            Oh Lord , what have I done ?
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                          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Damn, that guy's great!
                            I saw that one, the not sitting down was amazing.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                              I saw that one, the not sitting down was amazing.
                              I consider "Not sitting down" as one of my better "Feats Of Strength" (can't get Seinfeld-Festivus out of my head)

                              In fact, every morning, I have to set my goal for the day. It's either;
                              Not sitting down....or
                              Not standing up.

                              I can't do both in one day. It's in my contract.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                          Okay, okay guys. Straight from the horse's mouth

                          Claude Speaking | ClaudeWhitacre.com

                          I still don't get it. I also didn't know that the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man is now working as a motivational speaker.
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                          Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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                          • Profile picture of the author discrat
                            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                            I still don't get it. I also didn't know that the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man is now working as a motivational speaker.
                            Dan, in first minute or so of that video Richard talks about a little boy named Brian who came into his store one day.
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                            Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                            I still don't get it. I also didn't know that the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man is now working as a motivational speaker.
                            I'm the Pillsbury Dough Boy. The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man wishes he was me.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                    Dan, this is a little disappointing as I thought you knew Claude inside and out. Not literally ( at least I don't think) but you know what I mean
                    Dan does know me inside and out. But I was drunk, and he paid good money. I'll be in therapy for years.



                    Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                    Apparently I don't know him as well as you do because I have no clue.
                    That should be on your business cards.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I've gotten lazy. Not reading the whole thread but Tim ,you are right.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    I don't recall fish ever discriminating against me, not even a single fish. I guess if my toes dangled over water, a fish could mistake them for a large bugs and bite into one fo them, but that would be a misunderstanding, not discrimination.
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    Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Who is Richard?
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Who is Richard?
      Well that was me for a time, now I am handing off that misappropriated name to Claude compliments of Brian, I mean Dan. See Dan thought I was misappropriating his name by using Brian but Brian was just a little sad boy who told Richard to go to hell in that video.

      Something like that.
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      Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Little Brian is my hero.
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    Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Little Brian is my hero.
      Yeah, still can't believe Richard did not open up in those intimate conversations with you to tell you about that other little man in his Life
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Little Brian is my hero.
      I get it..but he was my hero too. When he said "I'll see you in hell", they were just going outside. I started laughing, and watched as the parents were talking to little Brian...all the way to the car.

      I love playing with little kids. I sometimes will show one a magic trick (make a paper cup float in the air, for example). The kid's reactions are always hilarious, whether they are fooled or not.

      One family came in the store, and they had 3 or 4 kids. All were very well behaved, except fot the youngest, maybe 5 years old. He kept running around, playing with vacuum cleaners....while I was showing a vacuum to his mom, dad, and siblings.

      He found a plunger I use to show a vacuum cleaner, picking up a bowling ball.

      He starts sword fighting with me, and I join in with an attachment wand.......(who knows what his parents are thinking). Of course, I'm being very careful, and he's really getting into it. This little kid shoves the plunger into my face (a long reach for him)...and yells "Indoor Plumbing!".

      That was his battle cry..."Indoor Plumbing!". It made my day.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Who indexes Claude Richard Joseph's presentations by story name?
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    When I take a reservation for my hotel I always get a laugh when I tell them each room also has Indoor Plumbing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dovakiin
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Dovakiin View Post

      Maybe it's because you're a creeper with delusions. Most women DO NOT like considerably older men...unless you're obscenely rich. You? You probably creep a lot of women out...especially young ones.
      Dovakin, your trolling is getting old.

      You did it all today up in the Main Forum.We gave you the benefit of the doubt up there and just let it go

      But down here we're not as polite.

      Prepared to be shown NO mercy with your Trolling ways in the basement

      So by all means have a go at it.

      You have been warned !!!
      BWHHHAAAAA



      P.S. For the uninformed his Sig JOOR ZAH FRUL!!!!
      FUS RO DAH!!!! is meme for s*t the F@ck down.

      Classy real Classy
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      Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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      • Profile picture of the author Dovakiin
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