No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

by Joshua Rigley Banned
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Interesting article.

"The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once."

Read more at: No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
  • Profile picture of the author DavidAllenNeron
    To me, that kind of makes sense.


    It doesn't logically make sense to me that with the vast expanse and our lack of view/understanding that something like the universe (perhaps erroneously named) .. it may be more like an omniverse or multiverse or whatever you want to call it.. I just don't see how something like that could cease to exist, and at the same time, could not have 'begun' by our traditional understanding.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      What I'm wondering is how does one "predict" a past non-event?
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

        What I'm wondering is how does one "predict" a past non-event?
        Just watch one of Claude's seminars on You-Tube and you will have to reason that the previous ones to that were just as bad.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

        What I'm wondering is how does one "predict" a past non-event?
        Because time is circular, Grasshopper. That's why clock-faces are round.


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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Because time is circular, Grasshopper. That's why clock-faces are round.


          .
          It's also why Kurt's head is round.
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        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Because time is circular, Grasshopper. That's why clock-faces are round.

          .
          Ahhhhh, I see.....

          Well, if that's the case, how come I haven't started to get younger ...? (I'm certainly overdue for that, based on your circular time theory!)
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          • Profile picture of the author TheWriteOne
            Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

            Ahhhhh, I see.....

            Well, if that's the case, how come I haven't started to get younger ...? (I'm certainly overdue for that, based on your circular time theory!)
            Maybe the clock hasn't struck at you yet to reset your time. Reincarnation maybe?

            First the earth was flat, then round. Earth as the center then the sun. Big Bang then this? What's next?
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          That's why clock-faces are round..
          <Ahem.>

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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            <Ahem.>

            I would maintain that the above picture depicts a round face, but in a square frame.

            And that you're a Smartypants.

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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

        What I'm wondering is how does one "predict" a past non-event?
        It's EASY! You simply have to be omniscient(so you can know everything and be sure a lack of knowledge means it didn't happen), and have existed BEFORE the event, so you can dict(speak about) PRE(before) it happened! So basically you have to be GOD!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          It's EASY! You simply have to be omniscient(so you can know everything and be sure a lack of knowledge means it didn't happen), and have existed BEFORE the event, so you can dict(speak about) PRE(before) it happened! So basically you have to be GOD!

          Steve
          Better talk to WC about that one, but with his pink, dancing fetishes, we probably won't like the answer!


          But true, we try as hard as we can to say nothing created everything, but nothing has to come into existence, so it is a dog chasing its tail situation!

          Bottom line is if God exists, then there is already something impossible, since something has to exist in order for something to exist!

          Not really surprised that the universe has no beginning, l said something alone those lines here last year!

          The universe expands and contracts, every 320,000,000 years, according to mystics. And the point of maximum expansion happened around new years eve.

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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Possibly no big bang and possibly proof of God in our DNA.
            First Scientific Proof Of God Found - WIT
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

    Interesting article.

    "The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once."

    Read more at: No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
    Ok, while not really understanding it all, I don't know about the beginning (or lack of it) but this theory seems to assume that there is an infinite amount of material out there to continually form and maintain stars and galaxies etc. That of course is if you are assuming that the definition of a dead universe is one devoid of them. Perhaps it is not.

    The ultimate fate of all you physically see in the Universe is that it will eventually exhaust its energy, gasses and end up as dead, inactive husks.

    So, if the universe is never ending and a big part of it's definition is that it has stars, galaxies and physical matter then there must be something that will continually renew that. That throws out of the window the observation that although there is a huge, mind boggling amount of material out there, it is still finite.

    If this theory turns out to replace the existing views, then it really pushes the boundaries.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm pretty fond of the Fractal Universe...or multiverse....theory. It's still fringe, but is gaining support, and seemingly pretty rapidly.

    No beginning, no end, somehow makes more sense to me. I can't justify anything being conscious just to snuff in the long run. It makes no sense. None.

    I could even see string theory being able to be wrapped into this one as the illusion of a big bang may be just a natural formation at certain intersections of universes. Where the hell is Sheldon when ya need him?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I knew Claude would delete that.

    How did I know? Quantum mechanics.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    So it was actually there? I was just clicking on another thread and thought I saw that he posted on this thread. Then back to the forum again and not. I thought I was going bozons.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

      Possibly no big bang and possibly proof of God in our DNA.
      First Scientific Proof Of God Found - WIT
      Yay, one big, fat juicy point for believers!

      Glad to know that l am not a delusional, nutter!


      And Claude needs to cut down on Brass statements about our mental health!

      This add's more credibility to the idea that we were created from scratch at some point, and apes are not related to us!

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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yay, one big, fat juicy point for believers!

        Glad to know that l am not a delusional, nutter!


        And Claude needs to cut down on Brass statements about our mental health!

        This add's more credibility to the idea that we were created from scratch at some point, and apes are not related to us!

        It's a satire site, Shane. The article is fake.
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          It's a satire site, Shane. The article is fake.
          Satire site?

          Unless WIT, is fake, or they would go to the trouble to register an org, for a fake site, l will do some more research.


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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

            Satire site?

            Unless WIT, is fake, or they would go to the trouble to register an org, for a fake site, l will do some more research.


            Shane - the Bob Jones University they speak of discovering the "god code" is a fundamentalist Christian university. It's been in trouble with the gov before for it's extreme racism. I'm almost wondering if Bobby, the founder, isn't some relation to the Jimmy Jones that was responsible for that mass suicide/slaughter a couple of decades back.

            Anyway - the W.I.T. is a satire site. It's just science satire instead of political satire.

            Conversely - when I was studying Linguistics at U of M, one of the issues we studied was the hard-wiring of language. Hard-wiring makes language an instinct. If you put any two humans together without any access to other humans, they will develop their own form of language. There was a group of Fundamentalist "scientists" (which is an oxymoron, and a fairly funny one since fundamentalists do not believe in science), that insisted that languages derived in this fashion were very close to Hebrew. And, yes, this was done to kids once in awhile in the name of science, but most of the info comes from the study of ferral or highly abused kids that were locked away from other contact.
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Shane,

              Did you read their "About" page?

              That should have been your first clue, lol!


              In December of 1999, WIT literally saved the world, after our computer science researchers managed to stop the Y2K virus from spreading globally. The Y2K virus would have caused airplanes to fall from the sky, the stock market to crash, cars to stop functioning, cell phones to randomly dial strangers, and more. - See more at: About WIT - WIT

              Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Shane - the Bob Jones University they speak of discovering the "god code" is a fundamentalist Christian university. It's been in trouble with the gov before for it's extreme racism. I'm almost wondering if Bobby, the founder, isn't some relation to the Jimmy Jones that was responsible for that mass suicide/slaughter a couple of decades back.
              .
              I was wondering the same thing. Jones is an unusual last name.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I was wondering the same thing. Jones is an unusual last name.
                LOL. Right?

                Still.......coincidental enough to at least bring it to mind, I see. Read the lawsuit. It's a good testimony to exactly how academically open minded the place might or might not be. .
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                • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Dan; To tell you the truth, I was hoping nobody would mention that. It's funnier that way.
                  Not Happy Jan,....oh, l mean Joe!!!!


                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  Shane,

                  Did you read their "About" page?

                  That should have been your first clue, lol!


                  Terra
                  Yes, l particularly liked the free tour one, where you had to be a certain height, and Arabic individuals could not enter certain parts of their labs without a letter from Home Security, LOL!

                  Pretty good job considering a possible religious, nutter did it!

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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

            Satire site?
            Yes, exactly so - a well-known satire site. A bit like "The Onion" and all the others.

            No, the First Scientific Proof of God Was Not Found


            .
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Yes, exactly so - a well-known satire site. A bit like "The Onion" and all the others.

              No, the First Scientific Proof of God Was Not Found


              .
              And a shame, too. If it were real it definitely would have been research that I'd be bidding to be a part of. Not a lot of work out there for cognitive linguists without a doctorate. I should have taken physics.
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                I should have taken physics.
                LOL ... eew, I couldn't wait to drop it, myself, I must admit (and I hardly did it, as it was).
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  LOL ... eew, I couldn't wait to drop it, myself, I must admit (and I hardly did it, as it was).
                  Seriously, Alexa. Between your taste in shoes and physics - you could have figured out the benefits of the program. At least if you were at U of M you'd have been able to - physics was loaded with hot guys with high intellect. Had I known sooner......had I only known sooner.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          It's a satire site, Shane. The article is fake.
          Dan; To tell you the truth, I was hoping nobody would mention that. It's funnier that way.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yay, one big, fat juicy point for believers!
        Sorry, Shane, but Dan's right. You might want to take a closer look at that website and the other articles posted there, like the climate change one, or the one about a gender change procedure for pets suffering from gender dysphoria...

        Also, just take a look at their "jobs" page and read the descriptions.. WIT isn't a real place.
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          Sorry, Shane, but Dan's right. You might want to take a closer look at that website and the other articles posted there, like the climate change one, or the one about a gender change procedure for pets suffering from gender dysphoria...

          Also, just take a look at their "jobs" page and read the descriptions.. WIT isn't a real place.
          No, unfortunately it isn't, crap!

          I have to admit that some of their comments are pretty funny, but some nutter certainly went to considerable effort to create this dumb site!!!!

          looks like others have too much time, too much IQ, and are jerks!

          Not Happy Jan!!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yay, one big, fat juicy point for believers!

        Glad to know that l am not a delusional, nutter!


        And Claude needs to cut down on Brass statements about our mental health!

        This add's more credibility to the idea that we were created from scratch at some point, and apes are not related to us!

        It got me when I first read it also Shane
        But here's the thing. When you think about it the Big Bang Theory is very similar to the explanations given by religions as to how the universe started. With the Big Bang the idea is that first there was nothing and then suddenly an atom appeared and exploded. With religions first there was nothing then there was something created by a God. Basically the same theories.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          It got me when I first read it also Shane
          But here's the thing. When you think about it the Big Bang Theory is very similar to the explanations given by religions as to how the universe started. With the Big Bang the idea is that first there was nothing and then suddenly an atom appeared and exploded. With religions first there was nothing then there was something created by a God. Basically the same theories.
          Except science doesn't suggest that we worship, give donations and sacrifices to the Big Bang.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Except science doesn't suggest that we worship, give donations and sacrifices to the Big Bang.
            No that's something created by man.
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          • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Except science doesn't suggest that we worship, give donations and sacrifices to the Big Bang.
            Neither do religions - just churches. Big diff.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              Hmm... No beginning to the Universe...

              That would add Brian Williams credibility to some ah, sacred writings wouldn't it?

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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                It got me when I first read it also Shane
                But here's the thing. When you think about it the Big Bang Theory is very similar to the explanations given by religions as to how the universe started. With the Big Bang the idea is that first there was nothing and then suddenly an atom appeared and exploded. With religions first there was nothing then there was something created by a God. Basically the same theories.
                Ok, established religions, might go for it, but mystics tend to go with the idea that it has always been!

                Or that there are cycles within cycles!

                The biggie, or the 320, million year one, where the universe expands, then contracts for a further 320, million years like a giant lung, is the main one.

                We lived through the end of one, a few months ago, and eventhough most could sense time speeding up, most couldn't sense anything else!

                But there was a suttle background noise that ceased a few days after new years, bit of an anticlimax!


                Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet View Post

                Oh who cares.
                Worrying about this not gonna put food on me table.
                Or correct your grammer?

                Sorry, WC, but l have to get my money's worth!

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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                  Ok, established religions, might go for it, but mystics tend to go with the idea that it has always been!

                  Or that there are cycles within cycles!

                  The biggie, or the 320, million year one, where the universe expands, then contracts for a further 320, million years like a giant lung, is the main one.

                  We lived through the end of one, a few months ago, and eventhough most could sense time speeding up, most couldn't sense anything else!

                  But there was a suttle background noise that ceased a few days after new years, bit of an anticlimax!




                  Or correct your grammer?

                  Sorry, WC, but l have to get my money's worth!

                  I see you're much more interested in the subject then I am
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            • Profile picture of the author Alast
              Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

              Neither do religions - just churches. Big diff.
              I'm sorry for chiming in uninvited - and I have no intentions in sparking any form of argument. But I couldn't disagree more with this. In fact, the first commandment is "You shall have no other gods before Me."

              Also give Exodus 20:2-6 a quick read.

              And, to be fair, let's look at the Quran:

              "I am God, there is no god but Me, therefore you shall worship Me and observe the Salat to commemorate Me." 20:14

              I would really like to hear what exactly makes you think that religions don't expect those things. I could dissect each and find more quotes for each of the other points, but I'm going to leave it there.

              I'll also probably regret posting this (hence I'm going to refrain from responding unless necessary).
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Alast View Post

                I'm sorry for chiming in uninvited - and I have no intentions in sparking any form of argument. But I couldn't disagree more with this. In fact, the first commandment is "You shall have no other gods before Me."

                Also give Exodus 20:2-6 a quick read.

                And, to be fair, let's look at the Quran:

                "I am God, there is no god but Me, therefore you shall worship Me and observe the Salat to commemorate Me." 20:14

                I would really like to hear what exactly makes you think that religions don't expect those things. I could dissect each and find more quotes for each of the other points, but I'm going to leave it there.

                I'll also probably regret posting this (hence I'm going to refrain from responding unless necessary).

                In all fairness, I've not yet encountered a "religion" or a church that requires we worship, give donations and sacrifices to the Big Bang. Unless you're inferring that the Big Bang is actually God or a god?


                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  In all fairness, I've not yet encountered a "religion" or a church that requires we worship, give donations and sacrifices to the Big Bang. Unless you're referring that the Big Bang is actually God or a god?


                  Terra
                  Do you really think that was my point? That we worship the Big Bang? My point was about the Creator(s) according to various religions requiring worship, donations and (in some cases) sacrifices.

                  I've never encountered a scientist that suggested we worship the Big Bang.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    Do you really think that was my point? That we worship the Big Bang?
                    Of course not.

                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    My point was about the Creator(s) according to various religions requiring worship, donations and (in some cases) sacrifices.
                    I know.

                    I was just being literal. Perhaps a bit anally, but literal none-the-less. I must admit, it was fun!

                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    I've never encountered a scientist that suggested we worship the Big Bang.
                    Whew! I'm relieved!


                    Terra
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                  • Profile picture of the author peterj
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    Do you really think that was my point? That we worship the Big Bang? My point was about the Creator(s) according to various religions requiring worship, donations and (in some cases) sacrifices.

                    I've never encountered a scientist that suggested we worship the Big Bang.
                    Now there's a niche just waiting to explode.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    Do you really think that was my point? That we worship the Big Bang? My point was about the Creator(s) according to various religions requiring worship, donations and (in some cases) sacrifices.

                    I've never encountered a scientist that suggested we worship the Big Bang.
                    Right, it's the religions (created by man) that require those things not the creator(s) (as in a God or Gods).
                    It's their theory of what God wants just like the big bang is a theory of science. The key word there is theory. You can believe in a God(s) and not believe you have to worship, donate or sacrifice. You can believe a God started the universe without the worship, donations and sacrifices also. You can also see that the way most religions believe the universe started is similar to the big bang like I originally stated. If you believe the worshiping, donating, and sacrifices came from God then you must believe in a God.
                    It all comes down to believing in a theory, weather it's the theory of God or the theory of the big bang. Neither can or have been proved.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      It all comes down to believing in a theory, weather it's the theory of God or the theory of the big bang. Neither can or have been proved.
                      I don't think it's a question of believing in the Big Bang theory. Scientists may accept it as the best likely scenario, given what we currently know, but, crucially, continue working to confirm it, disprove it, or come up with alternative theories. That's very different from the typical religious mindset.

                      And it's also becoming increasingly inaccurate to equate the Big Bang with any traditional religious creation theories. Current scientific thinking is that there wasn't actually "nothing" before the Big Bang. Rather, it's possible that our universe was formed from the remnants of a black hole from an older universe, or is just one of any number of universes coming into existence at any moment. Science has recently discovered evidence of particles popping into and out of existence seemingly from nothing, forcing us to re-examine what we understand by that term.

                      The point is, rather than believing in a theory, with all the emotional investment that entails, most scientists probably look forward to either disproving it or reshaping it in the light of new discoveries and evidence.


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                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                        I don't think it's a question of believing in the Big Bang theory. Scientists may accept it as the best likely scenario, given what we currently know, but, crucially, continue working to confirm it, disprove it, or come up with alternative theories. That's very different from the typical religious mindset.

                        And it's also becoming increasingly inaccurate to equate the Big Bang with any traditional religious creation theories. Current scientific thinking is that there wasn't actually "nothing" before the Big Bang. Rather, it's possible that our universe was formed from the remnants of a black hole from an older universe, or is just one of any number of universes coming into existence at any moment. Science has recently discovered evidence of particles popping into and out of existence seemingly from nothing, forcing us to re-examine what we understand by that term.

                        The point is, rather than believing in a theory, with all the emotional investment that entails, most scientists probably look forward to either disproving it or reshaping it in the light of new discoveries and evidence.


                        Frank
                        Frank it's the people believing a theory I'm talking about, not the scientists or priests (for lack of a better word).
                        I look at religions the same as I look at governments. Both where created to control people. With religions they use things like worshiping, donations, etc. as a means of control. They do that by saying it's the word of God. I've always questioned that. If God is all powerful and created everything, it doesn't need any of those things
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                      • Profile picture of the author peterj
                        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                        ...

                        And it's also becoming increasingly inaccurate to equate the Big Bang with any traditional religious creation theories. Current scientific thinking is that there wasn't actually "nothing" before the Big Bang. Rather, it's possible that our universe was formed from the remnants of a black hole from an older universe, or is just one of any number of universes coming into existence at any moment. Science has recently discovered evidence of particles popping into and out of existence seemingly from nothing, forcing us to re-examine what we understand by that term.

                        The point is, rather than believing in a theory, with all the emotional investment that entails, most scientists probably look forward to either disproving it or reshaping it in the light of new discoveries and evidence.

                        Frank
                        But that is the limitation of science, they cannot investigate nothing. All logic and machinaery fails at the threshold so they have to invent to have something else to investigate.

                        These older universes or multiple universes or anything else for that matter also have to emerge from somewhere.

                        For whatever they may propose, it will always be a 'thing' which then begs the question, 'where did it come from' or 'how did it come into existence'

                        I think there is probably a better theory than the big bang but as to where the BB or any other beginning emerged from I have 'Nothing' to say.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                          Originally Posted by peterj View Post

                          But that is the limitation of science, they cannot investigate nothing. All logic and machinaery fails at the threshold so they have to invent to have something else to investigate.
                          More accurately, it's the limitation of human cognizance. That's not really our fault.

                          These older universes or multiple universes or anything else for that matter also have to emerge from somewhere.

                          For whatever they may propose, it will always be a 'thing' which then begs the question, 'where did it come from' or 'how did it come into existence'
                          The assumptions behind that question, while appearing natural to you (or anyone else sharing this existence) are nevertheless based on the limiting experience of being human, a condition which causes us to think in a linear fashion and look for purpose or reason where either none exists or can only be found beyond the boundaries of our comprehension.

                          Somewhere like Montana.

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                          • Profile picture of the author peterj
                            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                            More accurately, it's the limitation of human cognizance. That's not really our fault.

                            The assumptions behind that question, while appearing natural to you (or anyone else sharing this existence) are nevertheless based on the limiting experience of being human, a condition which causes us to think in a linear fashion and look for purpose or reason where either none exists or can only be found beyond the boundaries of our comprehension.

                            Somewhere like Montana.

                            .
                            If by human cognizance you mean knowledge or awareness then no, it is not a human limitation.

                            (Take up Zen or some other such discipline and verify for yourself. Not recommended if you are looking for meaning though as you will probably end up wearing yoga pants or worse just for the heck of it.)

                            It is however a limitation of thinking mind/logic and scientific measuring equipment. Across the boundary they will fail.
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                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                        Scientists may accept it as the best likely scenario, given what we currently know,
                        Which, if I may put that into scientific jargon, would be referred to as, 'diddly-squat.'

                        Cheers. - Frank
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                          Which, if I may put that into scientific jargon, would be referred to as, 'diddly-squat.'

                          Cheers. - Frank

                          I'll take "Cuisine" for $800 Alex...


                          A. Didldly squat.


                          Q. What does Bo Diddley do in the forest after a big picnic catered by Taco Bell?
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            I'll take "Cuisine" for $800 Alex...


                            A. Didldly squat.


                            Q. What does Bo Diddley do in the forest after a big picnic catered by Taco Bell?
                            Are you saying that Bo Diddley wouldn't clean up his own mess after a picnic?

                            How do you know it was catered by Taco Bell?

                            Wait...Taco Bell does catering? What year did that start? Why haven't the rest of us heard about this?

                            And who is Alex? Did he cater the picnic? Does he work at Taco Bell? Why didn't he help Bo Diddly clean up the mess?

                            And frankly, $800 is a lot of Taco Bell. So that would explain why Bo Diddley sang The Blues. Cleaning up all that Taco Bell mess.

                            Where was this picnic? I think you may just be making this up. It's a known fact that Bo Diddley never ate fast food.

                            You remind me of Brian Williams. It's just one lie after another.
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                            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              Are you saying that Bo Diddley wouldn't clean up his own mess after a picnic?

                              How do you know it was catered by Taco Bell?

                              Wait...Taco Bell does catering? What year did that start? Why haven't the rest of us heard about this?

                              And who is Alex? Did he cater the picnic? Does he work at Taco Bell? Why didn't he help Bo Diddly clean up the mess?

                              And frankly, $800 is a lot of Taco Bell. So that would explain why Bo Diddley sang The Blues. Cleaning up all that Taco Bell mess.

                              Where was this picnic? I think you may just be making this up. It's a known fact that Bo Diddley never ate fast food.

                              You remind me of Brian Williams. It's just one lie after another.
                              You seem a little confused, allow me to clarify. Bo Diddley's full first name was Bow, on account of his Bow legs. This was conducive for him to do a lot of squatting, so it became a famous term as he squatted a lot on stage while playing his electric banjo. People who had never heard of his famous stage antics would be mocked and they would say, "You don't know Diddley Squat?."

                              He suffered a lot of pent up wind and constipation, so squatting would also help with it's passing by widening the exit. Unfortunately the noise accompanying the wind would always come out sounding like the word "Honda"

                              This coined another famous expression. "Parting makes the fart go Honda"

                              Taco Bell was his favorite picnic lunch and so provided the famous "Taco Smell" he is known for.

                              I hope that clears up your confusion.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                You seem a little confused, allow me to clarify. Bo Diddley's full first name was Bow, on account of his Bow legs. This was conducive for him to do a lot of squatting, so it became a famous term as he squatted a lot on stage while playing his electric banjo. People who had never heard of his famous stage antics would be mocked and they would say, "You don't know Diddley Squat?."

                                He suffered a lot of pent up wind and constipation, so squatting would also help with it's passing by widening the exit. Unfortunately the noise accompanying the wind would always come out sounding like the word "Honda"

                                This coined another famous expression. "Parting makes the fart go Honda"

                                Taco Bell was his favorite picnic lunch and so provided the famous "Taco Smell" he is known for.

                                I hope that clears up your confusion.
                                I'm glad someone is getting to the bottom of Kurt's pack of lies, about our hero, Bo Diddley.
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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  I'm glad someone is getting to the bottom of Kurt's pack of lies, about our hero, Bo Diddley.
                                  Although it's a bit disturbing how much I am focusing on Bo's Bottom.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      Right, it's the religions (created by man) that require those things not the creator(s) (as in a God or Gods).
                      It's their theory of what God wants just like the big bang is a theory of science. The key word there is theory. You can believe in a God(s) and not believe you have to worship, donate or sacrifice. You can believe a God started the universe without the worship, donations and sacrifices also. You can also see that the way most religions believe the universe started is similar to the big bang like I originally stated. If you believe the worshiping, donating, and sacrifices came from God then you must believe in a God.
                      It all comes down to believing in a theory, weather it's the theory of God or the theory of the big bang. Neither can or have been proved.
                      Except religions are considered hypotheses or dogmas and are often accepted by faith, while the Big Bang is a theory supported with evidence, although inconclusive. Simply believing doesn't qualify something as a theory.
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  In all fairness, I've not yet encountered a "religion" or a church that requires we worship, give donations and sacrifices to the Big Bang. Unless you're referring that the Big Bang is actually God or a god?


                  Terra
                  Well if anyone had that idea and was forming a church around it - looks like it's too late huh?
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

              Neither do religions - just churches. Big diff.
              Totally wrong. Why don't you explain to us how the Mayan "church" did things and their idea of creation?


              BTW, your use of "church" implies you believe there's only one religion. Big diff.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          It got me when I first read it also Shane
          But here's the thing. When you think about it the Big Bang Theory is very similar to the explanations given by religions as to how the universe started. With the Big Bang the idea is that first there was nothing and then suddenly an atom appeared and exploded. With religions first there was nothing then there was something created by a God. Basically the same theories.
          Back in my early 20's when I first became an atheist, I wondered why religious people were so opposed to the Big Bang Theory (BBT). All they needed to do to shut down debate on the issue was to claim that the BB was the moment when "God" peered forward into the void and whispered "Let there be light". It struck me as a stupid thing not to do and one of the contributing factors to me becoming an atheist.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
            Banned
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            Back in my early 20's
            For a second there I misread that as "back in the early 20's" and I was like, "Jeez, how old is this guy anyway?"
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            Back in my early 20's when I first became an atheist, I wondered why religious people were so opposed to the Big Bang Theory (BBT). All they needed to do to shut down debate on the issue was to claim that the BB was the moment when "God" peered forward into the void and whispered "Let there be light". It struck me as a stupid thing not to do and one of the contributing factors to me becoming an atheist.
            I hear ya there. Now like I said I believe in a God. I don't know what it looks like or even exactly what it is. I've always looked at physics and many other sciences as how god does things.
            When I look at a leaf on a tree, knowing what it does, I see a higher intelligence at work. I'll sit in my garden for hours in the summer just thinking about the million and millions of bacteria, fungi, insects, and worms, that are all working together to feed the plants that in turn will feed m. That didn't just happen by chance.
            Even evolution to me shows a more intelligent power operating in this world. In a way when you think about it without human interference everything else on this earth does what it was designed to do. From the bacteria in the soils to the trees on a mountain, they all serve a purpose and preform that purpose. Hard for me to believe that all happened by chance.
            Well that's my Big Bong Theory
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            <snip>All they needed to do to shut down debate on the issue was to claim that the BB was the moment when "God" peered forward into the void and whispered "Let there be light". It struck me as a stupid thing not to do and one of the contributing factors to me becoming an atheist.
            I am not an atheist, but I can certainly understand the rational reasons for becoming one. Usually, I find it easier hold coherent, logically consistent conversations with atheists than with religious people. My reason for believing in God is because the interaction of energy and matter resembles thought. "Meaning" is how energy affects matter and vice versa. Atheism demands the religious-like faith-based notion that the human brain is unique and distinct from the rest of the matter and energy in the universe, as if it is operating on a different set of physics, and that strikes me as nonsensical.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

              I am not an atheist, but I can certainly understand the rational reasons for becoming one. Usually, I find it easier hold coherent, logically consistent conversations with atheists than with religious people. My reason for believing in God is because the interaction of energy and matter resembles thought. "Meaning" is how energy affects matter and vice versa. Atheism demands the religious-like faith-based notion that the human brain is unique and distinct from the rest of the matter and energy in the universe, as if it is operating on a different set of physics, and that strikes me as nonsensical.
              I don't find it to be so. I'm not the complete athiest that thinks that life is it with nothing afterward. I believe in continuance, just not in an interested diety. The human brain isn't that much different from that of all other beings on earth, even though we egotistically like to think so. I believe that our essence is in our energy - our consciousness, etc. Since energy is indestructable, we continue. I don't believe our full existence, our energy source, is in the 3rd dimension, and that is why there's a distinction against what makes sense in physics and what makes sense in religion.
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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                It's their theory of what God wants just like the big bang is a theory of science. The key word there is theory. You can believe in a God(s) and not believe you have to worship, donate or sacrifice. You can believe a God started the universe without the worship, donations and sacrifices also. You can also see that the way most religions believe the universe started is similar to the big bang like I originally stated. If you believe the worshiping, donating, and sacrifices came from God then you must believe in a God.
                It all comes down to believing in a theory, weather it's the theory of God or the theory of the big bang. Neither can or have been proved.
                It can be proven by the individual who is open to new age concepts! Well, eventually!

                Well, it can be proven by science as well, but as usual it is buried!


                Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                More accurately, it's the limitation of human cognizance. That's not really our fault.

                The assumptions behind that question, while appearing natural to you (or anyone else sharing this existence) are nevertheless based on the limiting experience of being human, a condition which causes us to think in a linear fashion and look for purpose or reason where either none exists or can only be found beyond the boundaries of our comprehension.

                .
                Yes, exactly, but impossible things can be broken down into manageable theory's!

                Take infinity, it should be impossible to image, but if you walked around in a circle then doing something forever is technically possible.

                That is why Einstein after imaging an arrow moving through the universe ended up seeing it come back from behind!

                I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the universe reaches a point where space, time warps around itself to such a point that it effectively wraps all straight lines back to the opposite side of the universe?


                Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

                more to the point. God, specifically Jesus Christ does exist. I do not feel a 'supernatural" power I know He does because I am living right now. Faith is the evidence of things unseen. sorry you fail.
                This won't end well implies you can do something. You can't you cannot give one logical reason why anything exists. so you resort to blue fairies. There are some pretty powerful drugs that make all sorts of things exist.
                God does exist creation proves it only people like you like to try and prove something you cannot and one day you will inevitably meet this non existent God.
                Sucks to be you.

                Oh, I didn't see the part about natural disasters and the like, so man is in a fallen state, this is why you need a savior. God is not responsible for all these things. Even if He was, all the more reason to turn to Him. The wages of sin is death. if you didn't want to hear this, then I would suggest not slamming people of faith, I have no issue defending. I know God exists Your argument is like many others but it is very weak. There is only one God. only one way you can enter heaven that is by Jesus Christ the Lord who is blessed forever amen.
                Best,
                -WD
                Yes, probably the reason religion is banned here; Unfortunately saying that you believe in God, is a nice thought, but that is about it!

                We can go into the prove love, and looking into someones eyes, etc. But to a skeptic it just digs them in deeper to their ingrained beliefs!

                But don't get me wrong, l believe in God. It was a blind faith thing initially, but if you delve into new age stuff, then it becomes more and more obvious, especially when no mental or drug induced illusions take place!

                If a skeptic refuses to delve into this sort of stuff, and just dismisses it out of hand, then that is their issue and their loss!

                A scientist won't dismiss something without doing tests to determine if something is true or false. Same goes here, but eventhough scientific equipment can be built to prove that Auras and associated guides are real, it won't be long before they are taken away!

                But an individual can still prove it, but more on a personal level!

                Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                Back in my early 20's when I first became an atheist, I wondered why religious people were so opposed to the Big Bang Theory (BBT). All they needed to do to shut down debate on the issue was to claim that the BB was the moment when "God" peered forward into the void and whispered "Let there be light". It struck me as a stupid thing not to do and one of the contributing factors to me becoming an atheist.
                Well, that and that stupid hippy thing in the 60's! Free love, no wonder the US has a 30% STD rate?

                Free disease as well apparently?

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                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  The threads still here? It must be divine intervention!
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    It's no secret to anyone that I believe in God and I'm not here to argue or try to persuade anyone to change their views. That wouldn't be right. We've all been given the freedom and the choice to believe what-so-ever we want to. Forcing someone to believe something really isn't a true heartfelt belief anyway.

                    That being said, I can't understand how some people can believe that all of this is just happenstance or a mere coincidence:

                    The planet earth, a rotating sphere, hangs 93 million miles from the blistering surface of the sun. The size, position and angle of the earth is a scientific phenomenon, no doubt about that!

                    A few degrees closer to the sun we'd disintegrate, a few degrees further, we'd freeze to death! The axis of the earth is tilted at a perfect 23 degree angle and I don't believe that it's a mistake that it is, because it allows equal global distribution of the rays of the sun, in turn, making it possible for the food chain to exist.

                    Or take for example the atmosphere we breathe every day. It just happens to be the exact mix that life needs to prosper and doesn't happen on any other planet that way; that perfect blend of nitrogen and oxygen, I mean.

                    And look at the moon that controls the tides. Did you know that the tides are to us, what a housekeeper or maid is to a hotel? The tide causes the ocean waves to crash into the earth and drag impurities back into the deep depths of the ocean. It's like a constant recycling cycle. And every stream, river, creek, etc. moves toward a larger body of water for the same reason, to carry away imperfections to the deep.

                    Then think about the stars that rotate with such exact precision that the atomic clock, with an error factor of less than three seconds per millennium is set by the way our earth moves.

                    All of this is just mind boggling!

                    Doesn't it make sense then, if there's a plan, there's a planner and that if there's a design, there's a designer? I see all of this as a miracle and to me, if there's a miracle, there's a God.

                    Just sayin' is all.

                    Carry on...


                    Terra
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                    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                      That being said, I can't understand how some people can believe that all of this is just happenstance or a mere coincidence:
                      Terra, that's the definition of coincidence. You're employing backwards reasoning, i.e. starting from where we are now and working back. How do we know how many countless events have taken place in any countless number of universes that didn't result in intelligent life?

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                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                        Terra, that's the definition of coincidence..
                        Did you know that a synonym for coincidence is fate? "too close to be mere coincidence"? So I guess that point is a wash.

                        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                        You're employing backwards reasoning, i.e. starting from where we are now and working back. .
                        Ha! That's the first time I've been called backwards, lol.

                        Seriously though, that's the only way I can do algebra.

                        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                        How do we know how many countless events have taken place in any countless number of universes that didn't result in intelligent life?.
                        We don't, but we do know about ours.


                        Terra
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                          Did you know that a synonym for coincidence is fate? "too close to be mere coincidence"? So I guess that point is a wash.
                          Terra
                          Dear Terra;

                          Coincidence is the exact opposite of fate.
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                          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Dear Terra;

                            Coincidence is the exact opposite of fate.
                            Coincidence


                            Terra
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                            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                              Guys, thank you so much for sharing your beliefs with me. I appreciate the time you all took to post your thoughts and beliefs.

                              I respect them, and you're entitled to them like I'm entitled to mine.

                              And just as I knew my beliefs wouldn't change yours, yours haven't changed mine. Oh, and in case you're curious, I like you just as much as before you posted your response to my post.

                              Terra
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                              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                                Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                Oh, and in case you're curious, I like you just as much as before you posted your response to my post.
                                Back atcha. xx


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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post


                              Weird. You are right, that it is listed as a synonym. But that's not what fate is described as.


                              "the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.
                              "fate decided his course for him"
                              synonyms: destiny, providence, the stars, chance, luck, serendipity, fortune, kismet, karma"


                              When I use the word fate, I never mean luck, chance, or serendipity.

                              And " as determined by a supernatural power." isn't coincidence at all.


                              Strange. I have no explanation. And I learned something. Neat.

                              And thank you.



                              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                              And just as I knew my beliefs wouldn't change yours, yours haven't changed mine. Oh, and in case you're curious, I like you just as much as before you posted your response to my post.

                              Terra

                              What's really weird, is that I still like you as much as before....but I hate Riffle more than I did. And he hasn't even posted about this.

                              Coincidence? No...it's fate!
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                        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                          Ha! That's the first time I've been called backwards, lol.
                          Don't be naughty. You know I meant your reasoning, not you.


                          We don't, but we do know about ours.
                          That's the point. What we know about our origins is our only frame of reference. There could have been (and could be in the future) a countless number of events in a countless number of universes with a countless number of outcomes. But you can take any coincidence and trace it all the way back to its origins, and you'll find that the events that happened have to have happened or that coincidence wouldn't have occured.

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                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                      It's no secret to anyone that I believe in God and I'm not here to argue or try to persuade anyone to change their views. That wouldn't be right. We've all been given the freedom and the choice to believe what-so-ever we want to. Forcing someone to believe something really isn't a true heartfelt belief anyway.

                      That being said, I can't understand how some people can believe that all of this is just happenstance or a mere coincidence:

                      The planet earth, a rotating sphere, hangs 93 million miles from the blistering surface of the sun. The size, position and angle of the earth is a scientific phenomenon, no doubt about that!

                      A few degrees closer to the sun we'd disintegrate, a few degrees further, we'd freeze to death! The axis of the earth is tilted at a perfect 23 degree angle and I don't believe that it's a mistake that it is, because it allows equal global distribution of the rays of the sun, in turn, making it possible for the food chain to exist.

                      Or take for example the atmosphere we breathe every day. It just happens to be the exact mix that life needs to prosper and doesn't happen on any other planet that way; that perfect blend of nitrogen and oxygen, I mean.

                      And look at the moon that controls the tides. Did you know that the tides are to us, what a housekeeper or maid is to a hotel? The tide causes the ocean waves to crash into the earth and drag impurities back into the deep depths of the ocean. It's like a constant recycling cycle. And every stream, river, creek, etc. moves toward a larger body of water for the same reason, to carry away imperfections to the deep.

                      Then think about the stars that rotate with such exact precision that the atomic clock, with an error factor of less than three seconds per millennium is set by the way our earth moves.

                      All of this is just mind boggling!

                      Doesn't it make sense then, if there's a plan, there's a planner and that if there's a design, there's a designer? I see all of this as a miracle and to me, if there's a miracle, there's a God.

                      Just sayin' is all.

                      Carry on...


                      Terra
                      We had a heavy discussion on another thread recently, I maintained that there were likely a lot of civilizations in our universe and that life can be diverse, different and hardy and we should not restrict ourselves to only seeking life like ours and plantetary conditions like ours to support it.

                      Claude said our planet and it's conditions, orbit, angle, size, distance from the sun the fact it had a moon etc, were Unique and extremely rare. That is probably true. However, I will have to point out that the universe is so mind bogglingly large, has so many stars and planets, that the odds were in favour statistically, that at least one planet would turn out like that.

                      So divine intervention, grand design or a creator were not required.
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                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                        We had a heavy discussion on another thread recently, I maintained that there were likely a lot of civilizations in our universe and that life can be diverse, different and hardy and we should not restrict ourselves to only seeking life like ours and plantetary conditions like ours to support it.
                        Well, the saying goes that the proof is in the pudding, and right now, we have the only pudding.

                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                        Claude said our planet and it's conditions, orbit, angle, size, distance from the sun the fact it had a moon etc, were Unique and extremely rare. That is probably true. However, I will have to point out that the universe is so mind bogglingly large, has so many stars and planets, that the odds were in favour statistically, that at least one planet would turn out like that.

                        So divine intervention, grand design or a creator were not required.
                        Well, I have to point out that genetic components, compilations and compositions are also so mind bogglingly large that the odds would be in favor, statistically, that there would be at least one other "me", however, there never was nor ever will be another "me", so Divine intervention, grand design and a Creator were required.


                        That was fun!


                        Terra
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                        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                          Well, the saying goes that the proof is in the pudding, and right now, we have the only pudding.



                          Well, I have to point out that genetic components, compilations and compositions are also so mind bogglingly large that the odds would be in favor, statistically, that there would be at least one other "me", however, there never was nor ever will be another "me", so Divine intervention, grand design and a Creator were required.


                          That was fun!


                          Terra
                          Impressive, impeccable reasoning and logic there.

                          The Terra K from the planet Kronos in the 25th dimension said exactly the same thing so it must be correct.
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                          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                            Impressive, impeccable reasoning and logic there.

                            The Terra K from the planet Kronos in the 25th dimension said exactly the same thing so it must be correct.
                            Was that supposed to be funny?


                            Terra
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                            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                              Was that supposed to be funny?


                              Terra
                              Sort of, in a make you think kind of way. But even if it turns out that their are an infinite amount of universes which would mean a strong likely-hood that we are duplicated physically, we would still be unique, never exactly the same. So, really, there is only one Terra K. And, I am really citing the spirit which is the real you, some common ground which we both share opinions on (except I don't do the deity bit)
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                              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                Sort of, in a make you think kind of way. But even if it turns out that their are an infinite amount of universes which would mean a strong likely-hood that we are duplicated physically, we would still be unique, never exactly the same. So, really, there is only one Terra K. And, I am really citing the spirit which is the real you, some common ground which we both share opinions on (except I don't do the deity bit)
                                Well, it did make me think...

                                I thought I couldn't determine if you were being mean to me or if that was supposed to be funny, lol!

                                That's cool, Ian, as I've stated before, I'll never ridicule anyone for their beliefs as it is their gift of free will and choice just the same as my beliefs are.


                                Terra
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                Sort of, in a make you think kind of way. But even if it turns out that their are an infinite amount of universes which would mean a strong likely-hood that we are duplicated physically, we would still be unique, never exactly the same.

                                Personally, I think the idea of a "duplicate you" is nonsense.

                                For that to be true, every atom in the universe would have to be duplicated, and have exactly the same actions....the same interactions..with every other atom in the universe....since the beginning of time....until the end of time. And the universes would have had to start at precisely the same time.

                                It literally is the definition of the word Impossible.

                                And if we were duplicated physically, we would be identical mentally, or we would all have made different decisions...throughout history...back until the beginning of life on Earth. And us even being here, wouldn't happen.

                                If there is a mirror image anti-matter universe (a word, not a theory) then we would simply be half of the whole.
                                (Just a thought experiment where duplicates of us would make sense)


                                Of course, after the Earth becomes a Quasar or Pulsar....none of this will matter.
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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  Personally, I think the idea of a "duplicate you" is nonsense.

                                  For that to be true, every atom in the universe would have to be duplicated, and have exactly the same actions....the same interactions..with every other atom in the universe....since the beginning of time....until the end of time. And the universes would have had to start at precisely the same time.

                                  It literally is the definition of the word Impossible.

                                  And if we were duplicated physically, we would be identical mentally, or we would all have made different decisions...throughout history...back until the beginning of life on Earth. And us even being here, wouldn't happen.

                                  If there is a mirror image anti-matter universe (a word, not a theory) then we would simply be half of the whole.
                                  (Just a thought experiment where duplicates of us would make sense)


                                  Of course, after the Earth becomes a Quasar....none of this will matter.
                                  Your right of course, so I'm going to change it to Lookie Likee
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                          Well, I have to point out that genetic components, compilations and compositions are also so mind bogglingly large that the odds would be in favor, statistically, that there would be at least one other "me", however, there never was nor ever will be another "me", so Divine intervention, grand design and a Creator were required.


                          That was fun!


                          Terra
                          Terra; What you just said makes no sense whatsoever.

                          If you like, I can just refrain from ever commenting on these posts again. Just say the word.



                          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                          It was quickly discovered that the article the OP linked to was a clever spoof/fake, put up an a site full of that stuff. So we are back to the boring old original Big Bang theory of which their was no real mileage to argue about. The Grand design and a Creator discourses are the only reasons it kept going.
                          None of that matters. It doesn't matter that it was a spoof. Some will run with it, and declare it gospel.

                          And the Earth will become a Pulsar.
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                          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            I'm very sorry, Terra. That makes no sense whatsoever.

                            I never claimed it was sensical, only that it was fun.

                            C'mon, you should know me enough by now to realize that I'm all about having fun.


                            Terra
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                          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Terra; What you just said makes no sense whatsoever.

                            If you like, I can just refrain from ever commenting on these posts again. Just say the word.





                            None of that matters. It doesn't matter that it was a spoof. Some will run with it, and declare it gospel.

                            And the Earth will become a Pulsar.
                            I used to go to a nightclub in Cornwall (UK) called Quasar's. I think your on to something here.
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                          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                            None of that matters. It doesn't matter that it was a spoof. Some will run with it, and declare it gospel.

                            And the Earth will become a Pulsar.
                            I don't remember looking at that site. I do know there is a new theory that is picking up steam and credibility - and that's the fractal universe theory. It's still fringe, but, as I said, it's picking up some credence, and the way science is basically ruled by authorities that guard their "accepted" and funded theories like pit bulls, that means it is worthy of some study.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                              I don't remember looking at that site. I do know there is a new theory that is picking up steam and credibility - and that's the fractal universe theory. It's still fringe, but, as I said, it's picking up some credence, and the way science is basically ruled by authorities that guard their "accepted" and funded theories like pit bulls, that means it is worthy of some study.
                              Sal; What possible benefit would it be to anyone, what funding would this influence...sticking to a universally accepted theory, about the beginning of the universe?

                              How is that information worth hiding from the public?

                              There are no "Universe started this way" pills. How would any government even care?



                              By the way, guys. I was fooled too. The article made no sense to me, but there were enough "Quantum physics" type words, to make it impossible (for me) to track logically.

                              I'm still a sucker for a pretty science article.
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                              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                Sal; What possible benefit would it be to anyone, what funding would this influence...sticking to a universally accepted theory, about the beginning of the universe?

                                How is that information worth hiding from the public?

                                There are no "Universe started this way" pills. How would any government even care?



                                By the way, guys. I was fooled too. The article made no sense to me, but there were enough "Quantum physics" type words, to make it impossible (for me) to track logically.

                                I'm still a sucker for a pretty science article.
                                I'd have to explain a lot about scientific funding etc to answer this. The people at the top of the hierarchy in any field who have put their career and reps into certain theories and built their own models of offshoots from the mainly accepted theories can lose their jobs and research funding when new theories are adopted. That's the money part - on the other part - people just don't change their ideas that fast unless something completely shattering to an old theory surfaces. There, are, after all, people that still think the earth is flat remember.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Terra; What you just said makes no sense whatsoever.

                            If you like, I can just refrain from ever commenting on these posts again. Just say the word.
                            Terra, you have the power! Use it! You can get Claude to not only delete his posts, but stop him from ever commenting again!


                            Make him go away! For the sake of humanity, use your powers! Just say, "The Word"!
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                            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                              Terra, you have the power! Use it! You can get Claude to not only delete his posts, but stop him from ever commenting again!


                              Make him go away! For the sake of humanity, use your powers! Just say, "The Word"!

                              LOL, Kurt!

                              Let's see if it works...

                              Ok, I just said, "The Word"


                              Terra
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                              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                On second thought, I'm sure it won't work because he never told me what "The Word" actually was.


                                Terra
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                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                  On second thought, I'm sure it won't work because he never told me what "The Word" actually was.


                                  Terra
                                  The Word is "Kurt is a big dumb poopy pants"
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                                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                    The Word is "Kurt is a big dumb poopy pants"

                                    LMBO!

                                    That was hilarious!

                                    Sorry Kurt, I just can't say it.

                                    I'm still laughing!


                                    Terra
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                      LMBO!

                                      That was hilarious!

                                      Sorry Kurt, I just can't say it.

                                      I'm still laughing!


                                      Terra
                                      I see the problem...by suggesting you say "The Word", Claude can't count.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                        Just so you know, I'm laughing so hard because that phrase Claude said was "the word", (see, I still didn't say it) brought back a childhood memory.

                                        The little girl who lived behind us when we were little, climbed up on the fence that separated our backyards and started singing...Poopy panties, pee pee panties, Poopy panties, pee pee panties...in that snotty little sing-songy way that kids do.

                                        Anyway, since my sister and I were in the sand box making mud pies, she started making mud balls and throwing them at that little girl and knocked that brat right off the fence.

                                        I haven't heard that phrase since way back then, lol!


                                        Terra
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                          Just so you know, I'm laughing so hard because that phrase Claude said was "the word", (see, I still didn't say it) brought back a childhood memory.

                                          The little girl who lived behind us when we were little, climbed up on the fence that separated our backyards and started singing...Poopy panties, pee pee panties, Poopy panties, pee pee panties...in that snotty little sing-songy way that kids do.

                                          Anyway, since my sister and I were in the sand box making mud pies, she started making mud balls and throwing them at that little girl and knocked that brat right off the fence.

                                          I haven't heard that phrase since way back then, lol!


                                          Terra
                                          What a coincidence! "Mud Balls" is Claude's nickname at the Wooster Budget Health Spa.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                            What a coincidence! "Mud Balls" is Claude's nickname at the Wooster Budget Health Spa.
                                            And your nickname was "Mud Licker".

                                            Coincidence..or Fate? You decide.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                                          Do we have to use the word poopy?


                                          Joe Mobley


                                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                          Just so you know, I'm laughing so hard because that phrase Claude said was "the word", (see, I still didn't say it) brought back a childhood memory.

                                          The little girl who lived behind us when we were little, climbed up on the fence that separated our backyards and started singing...Poopy panties, pee pee panties, Poopy panties, pee pee panties...in that snotty little sing-songy way that kids do.

                                          Anyway, since my sister and I were in the sand box making mud pies, she started making mud balls and throwing them at that little girl and knocked that brat right off the fence.

                                          I haven't heard that phrase since way back then, lol!


                                          Terra
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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                  On second thought, I'm sure it won't work because he never told me what "The Word" actually was.


                                  Terra
                                  I will have to check his programming as I'm sure I put it in there somewhere. It could take a while though as it runs into at least three pages.

                                  20 seconds later....

                                  Hang on, gotta go, Kurt's at the door....And he has Riffle with him
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                              Terra, you have the power! Use it! You can get Claude to not only delete his posts, but stop him from ever commenting again!


                              Make him go away! For the sake of humanity, use your powers! Just say, "The Word"!

                              Terra; Remember, if you get rid of me.....none of you will have a defense against ....The Kurt!

                              And, even if The Kurt falls before your angelic light...you still have to guard against...The Riffle.

                              I am your only hope.

                              Claude "Obi Wan Kanobi" Whitacre
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                Thanks for trying Terra...I guess the old saying "if something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't" is true.


                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                                Claude "Old Creepy White Guy" Whitacre
                                Fixed it for you...
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                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                  Thanks for trying Terra...I guess the old saying "if something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't" is true.



                                  Fixed it for you...
                                  Oh yeah? Well, at least, when I turned 60, I graduated from Creepy Middle Aged Guy



                                  I had to change all my monogrammed towels and stationary.

                                  Ahhhhh...and my diaper.



                                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post


                                  Hang on, gotta go, Kurt's at the door....And he has Riffle with him
                                  Tell me...which one was wearing the saddle this time.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Terra in Bold. Me not.



                      The planet earth, a rotating sphere, hangs 93 million miles from the blistering surface of the sun. The size, position and angle of the earth is a scientific phenomenon, no doubt about that!

                      It isn't phenomenal at all. It's blind luck. How many planets in the universe don't circle their sun at the right distance for life? Almost all.

                      The axis of the earth is tilted at a perfect 23 degree angle and I don't believe that it's a mistake that it is, because it allows equal global distribution to the rays of the sun, in turn, making it possible for the food chain to exist.

                      The food chain evolved in the way it did, to adapt to the shift in seasons. 23% isn't perfect. But life has adapted to it, nicely.

                      Or take for example the atmosphere we breathe every day. It just happens to be the exact mix that life needs to prosper and doesn't happen on any other planet that way; that perfect blend of nitrogen and oxygen, I mean.

                      It doesn't "happen to have" anything. It has taken billions of years for the Oxygen to build up. Before the atmosphere had oxygen, every living thing was in the oceans. And almost every species that ever lived...is extinct...because they couldn't adapt to the changing environment.

                      And look at the moon that controls the tides. Did you know that the tides are to us, what a housekeeper or maid is to a hotel? The tide causes the ocean waves to crash into the earth and drag impurities back into the deep depths of the ocean. It' like a constant recycling cycle.

                      The moon used to be much closer, causing tides that were hundreds of feet between low and high tide. The day used to be much shorter too. The day used to be 8 hours. The Earth is slowing, the moon is getting further away. These things feel permanent, because our lives are so short.

                      Then think about the stars that rotate with such exact precision that the atomic clock, with an error factor of less than three seconds per millennium is set by the way our earth moves.

                      Stars don't rotate. The Earth does. And it's slowing.

                      Doesn't it make sense then, if there's a plan, there's a planner and that if there's a design, there's a designer? I see all of this as a miracle and to me, if there's a miracle, there's a God.

                      Yes, it does make sense that if there was a plan, there would be a planner. And it's a beautiful idea.

                      But galaxies are colliding, Suns are burning out..or exploding....It's a violent universe. If there is a plan, it doesn't seem like anyone is sticking to it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                      It's no secret to anyone that I believe in God and I'm not here to argue or try to persuade anyone to change their views. That wouldn't be right. We've all been given the freedom and the choice to believe what-so-ever we want to. Forcing someone to believe something really isn't a true heartfelt belief anyway.

                      That being said, I can't understand how some people can believe that all of this is just happenstance or a mere coincidence:

                      The planet earth, a rotating sphere, hangs 93 million miles from the blistering surface of the sun. The size, position and angle of the earth is a scientific phenomenon, no doubt about that!

                      A few degrees closer to the sun we'd disintegrate, a few degrees further, we'd freeze to death! The axis of the earth is tilted at a perfect 23 degree angle and I don't believe that it's a mistake that it is, because it allows equal global distribution of the rays of the sun, in turn, making it possible for the food chain to exist.

                      Or take for example the atmosphere we breathe every day. It just happens to be the exact mix that life needs to prosper and doesn't happen on any other planet that way; that perfect blend of nitrogen and oxygen, I mean.

                      And look at the moon that controls the tides. Did you know that the tides are to us, what a housekeeper or maid is to a hotel? The tide causes the ocean waves to crash into the earth and drag impurities back into the deep depths of the ocean. It's like a constant recycling cycle. And every stream, river, creek, etc. moves toward a larger body of water for the same reason, to carry away imperfections to the deep.

                      Then think about the stars that rotate with such exact precision that the atomic clock, with an error factor of less than three seconds per millennium is set by the way our earth moves.

                      All of this is just mind boggling!

                      Doesn't it make sense then, if there's a plan, there's a planner and that if there's a design, there's a designer? I see all of this as a miracle and to me, if there's a miracle, there's a God.

                      Just sayin' is all.

                      Carry on...


                      Terra
                      Conversely - this is the exact reason that I'm not convinced of an intelligent design. Why would an entity create something the unfathomable size of this universe just for one little planet full of beings? It doesn't make much sense to me. Then, too - just because we've not run into others yet (that we know of), doesn't mean they don't exist somewhere. If there is intelligent design, I think it to be disinterested. It has designed a universe that operates on specific laws of energy and it doesn't spend it's time watching over us, and is not some narcissistic entity who creates beings just so they will sit around and continually worship and sing praises to it.

                      We know we have physical law, and we know that we are here. We know that energy is indestructible, and we don't know what consciousness is. All I can say is there better be a damned good punchline on the other side because this, right here and now, isn't even a tad bit funny. Well, except bald dudes. They're a royal hoot.
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                      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                        Conversely - this is the exact reason that I'm not convinced of an intelligent design. Why would an entity create something the unfathomable size of this universe just for one little planet full of beings? It doesn't make much sense to me. Then, too - just because we've not run into others yet (that we know of), doesn't mean they don't exist somewhere. If there is intelligent design, I think it to be disinterested. It has designed a universe that operates on specific laws of energy and it doesn't spend it's time watching over us, and is not some narcissistic entity who creates beings just so they will sit around and continually worship and sing praises to it.

                        We know we have physical law, and we know that we are here. We know that energy is indestructible, and we don't know what consciousness is. All I can say is there better be a damned good punchline on the other side because this, right here and now, isn't even a tad bit funny. Well, except bald dudes. They're a royal hoot.
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                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                        Conversely - this is the exact reason that I'm not convinced of an intelligent design. Why would an entity create something the unfathomable size of this universe just for one little planet full of beings? It doesn't make much sense to me. Then, too - just because we've not run into others yet (that we know of), doesn't mean they don't exist somewhere. If there is intelligent design, I think it to be disinterested. It has designed a universe that operates on specific laws of energy and it doesn't spend it's time watching over us, and is not some narcissistic entity who creates beings just so they will sit around and continually worship and sing praises to it.

                        We know we have physical law, and we know that we are here. We know that energy is indestructible, and we don't know what consciousness is. All I can say is there better be a damned good punchline on the other side because this, right here and now, isn't even a tad bit funny. Well, except bald dudes. They're a royal hoot.
                        I would never be so presumptuous as to claim to understand the reasoning of God.

                        All I can answer for is me, and I know that He is watching over me. There are too many incidences that have occurred in my life that should have ended it, but look, I'm still here!

                        I agree that He didn't create us to sit around and continually worship and sing praises to Him. He created some of the angels for that. I believe we were created for higher purposes on the other side of eternity and our brief existence here is sort of like a boot camp. What we accomplish here determines our place and purpose there, the other side of eternity, that is.

                        Anyway, those are some of my beliefs, and I strongly believe that the most important thing is that our faith must be personal with the Creator, not by what man interprets and dictates what it should be.


                        Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

              Atheism demands the religious-like faith-based notion that the human brain is unique and distinct from the rest of the matter and energy in the universe, as if it is operating on a different set of physics, and that strikes me as nonsensical.
              It strikes me as nonsensical as well. I'm an atheist, and this is the first time I've ever heard this idea.

              I strongly suspect that this idea was not written by an Atheist, but by a religious person, as something to argue against.
              I should mention that, I have subscribed to two Atheist magazines, and belonged to an Atheist discussion group (for about a year).

              And, although there are some intelligent discussions, being an Atheist, doesn't guarantee that you are intelligent, or rational. You can be an Atheist for silly reasons.

              But, your the idea you have posted is irrational, and I've never heard it anywhere before.

              And....let me define what an Atheist is. We simply don't believe in the Supernatural.

              That's all we have in common. The only reason there are Atheist groups, is to try to take religion out of government and education. And these politically active people, are few in number.

              But.....it's like a group of people that don't believe that Sherlock Holmes is real. They literally have nothing in common. There are no "Atheist set of rules"...or Atheist beliefs.

              It's hard to argue with Atheists as a group, because they don't form a group. Only a few are politically active. We don't have weekly meetings. I know of only one other Atheist in my entire town. And neither one of us were seeking the other one out.

              And I stopped reading their magazines, because I was hoping to find a group of Rational Thinkers.. And although many rational thinkers are Atheists, most Atheists are no more rational than anyone else.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        This add's more credibility to the idea that we were created from scratch at some point, and apes are not related to us!
        Chimpanzees (a species of ape in case you weren't aware) share 98% of our genetic makeup.
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  • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
    Banned
    Oh who cares.
    Worrying about this not gonna put food on me table.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The question of our existence has intrigued me for a long time. I'm having a hard time believing that this existence that we know has always existed.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    With a little editing, we have a sit-com here folks, complete with original characters and witty dialogue. What to call it?
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      With a little editing, we have a sit-com here folks, complete with original characters and witty dialogue. What to call it?
      Given that some of the replies to this thread must have been made after partaking of an amount of "whacky baccy", why not call it The Big Bong Theory.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I'm having a hard time believing this existence we know of is all some type of accident.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      I agree.

      Instead of going the religious route, I'm thinking our multi-billion light-year wide universe might be little more than a science project for someone(?) else.


      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I'm having a hard time believing this existence we know of is all some type of accident.

      Joe Mobley
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        I agree.

        Instead of going the religious route, I'm thinking our multi-billion light-year wide universe might be little more than a science project for someone(?) else.





        Joe Mobley
        I think the Hindus think this is all someone's dream.

        But who knows?
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          I think the Hindus think this is all someone's nightmare.
          Fixed that for you. :-)

          Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Mr Mino

            The Correct sentence should be..

            "So... let me get this straight, it is Not o.k. to slam religion and you Can't talk about it?"

            One rule for all and I suspect this thread will be deleted.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        I agree.

        Instead of going the religious route, I'm thinking our multi-billion light-year wide universe might be little more than a science project for someone(?) else.





        Joe Mobley

        Since I don't think what we know as existence, is an accident, I personally have to acknowledge the thing responsible for it in some way.

        The ancient Egyptians said of it, that no man will ever know its similitude.

        Maybe the greatest of all their gods was Amon - the hidden one.

        It it still with many of us when we utter its name at the end of our prayers. The christians say amen and the muslims say amin.

        And there was even a TV show derived...
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          I would think it is only reasonable to find similarities between the different denominations of Abrahamic mythology.


          Joe Mobley


          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post


          It it still with many of us when we utter its name at the end of our prayers. The christians say amen and the muslims say amin.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    With a LOT editing, we have a sit-com here folks, complete with original characters and witty dialogue. What to call it?
    Fixed that for you.
    As for what to call it, how about The Unifarce?

    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

    I'm having a hard time believing this existence we know of is all some type of accident.
    Same here. I also have trouble believing what the religions teach.
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    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
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      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

        Only a fool says there is no God.
        Nothing foolish in that comment. lol

        Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
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        • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
          hey Joe,

          O.k. so then explain it.

          -WD
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
            Perhaps another venue would be better suited for such a discussion.

            Be aware that I waste little time or effort on individuals who have trouble with facts, logic, reason, etc.


            Joe Mobley



            Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

            hey Joe,

            O.k. so then explain it.

            -WD
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            • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
              Exactly Joe. You can't.

              Thanks for playin.
              -WD
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

        <snip>

        Go fix world hunger. Or something else useful instead of wasting countless hours and millions upon millions of dollars and convoluted theories.You can slam religion all ya want but you cannot prove God does not exist. <snip>
        If it wasn't for those convoluted theories, we wouldn't be having this chat on Internet. Science and scientists don't involve slamming religion. However, sometimes scientists are slammed by religion. Look what happened to Galileo. I believe in God but I don't think anything contradicts God. It is human perception of God that gets contradicted.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alast
        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

        you can't prove God DOESN'T exist.
        Besides this post being ludicrous, I want to address this point in particular, because it seems to be the one point repeated by religious folks over and over.

        Instead, I want to counter your argument.

        Prove that the blue fairy doesn't exist.

        Prove that unicorns don't exist.

        Unfortunately, if you claim xyz exists, you must therefore provide evidence for their existence. It's not our job to prove they DON'T exist when you're making the claim.

        And no, just because you may FEEL the presence of the supernatural, or something happened in your life which makes you feel a super-being exists, does not make them exist. You're simply (selfishly) neglecting some terrible things which happen on this earth (natural disasters, diseases, etc.) and making a claim that because something happened to YOU, therefore there MUST be a very specific God to exist.

        My next question is: which God is it?

        What if there was a God in which sent only non-believers went to heaven?

        Both of which are very reasonable questions.

        This won't end well.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
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          • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
            Why would I want to prove blue fairies don't exist, I suppose if you have drugs all things can exist. I remember seeing a hundred foot pink elephant when I took acid. way back when

            more to the point. God, specifically Jesus Christ does exist. I do not feel a 'supernatural" power I know He does because I am living right now. Faith is the evidence of things unseen. sorry you fail.
            This won't end well implies you can do something. You can't you cannot give one logical reason why anything exists. so you resort to blue fairies. There are some pretty powerful drugs that make all sorts of things exist.
            God does exist creation proves it only people like you like to try and prove something you cannot and one day you will inevitably meet this non existent God.
            Sucks to be you.

            Oh, I didn't see the part about natural disasters and the like, so man is in a fallen state, this is why you need a savior. God is not responsible for all these things. Even if He was, all the more reason to turn to Him. The wages of sin is death. if you didn't want to hear this, then I would suggest not slamming people of faith, I have no issue defending. I know God exists Your argument is like many others but it is very weak. There is only one God. only one way you can enter heaven that is by Jesus Christ the Lord who is blessed forever amen.
            Best,
            -WD
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            • Profile picture of the author Alast
              Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

              Why would I want to prove blue fairies don't exist, I suppose if you have drugs all things can exist. I remember seeing a hundred foot pink elephant when I took acid. way back when

              more to the point. God, specifically Jesus Christ does exist. I do not feel a 'supernatural" power I know He does because I am living right now. Faith is the evidence of things unseen. sorry you fail.
              This won't end well implies you can do something. You can't you cannot give one logical reason why anything exists. so you resort to blue fairies. There are some pretty powerful drugs that make all sorts of things exist.
              God does exist creation proves it only people like you like to try and prove something you cannot and one day you will inevitably meet this non existent God.
              Sucks to be you.

              Best,
              -WD
              Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. It's impossible to prove or disprove something which there is no evidence for (the bible or "creation" are not evidence). You seem fairly adamant you're right, and given your last comment, it seems as though your "all loving" God may not be all loving after all.

              Maybe I don't want to go to heaven if that's the case. Especially when free will doesn't exist there.
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              • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
                Well, you make a conscious choice. That is not on me. My choice is made. I am not only adamant I would die for this knowledge. go figure.
                Enjoy your day
                -WD
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                • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                  Fixed that for you...


                  Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

                  My choice is made. I am not only adamant I would die for this belief. go figure.

                  -WD
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                  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
                    Joe you are so silly. It is not a belief it is the only truth there is. I can tell you one thing, no other god could do what Jesus has.

                    Thanks anyhow but you still haven't proved anything. and you didn't fix anything if you die without Him guess what it doesn't matter what you believe, it only matters what is

                    best,
                    -Wd
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                • Profile picture of the author Alast
                  Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

                  Well, you make a conscious choice.
                  I made the choice that I want to know and comprehend evidence before subjecting my life into a faith which is likely to not be true (that sounds terribly conceited, but given there are hundreds of religion organisations which claim the same thing... it's not wrong).

                  That is not on me. My choice is made. I am not only adamant I would die for this knowledge. go figure.
                  Enjoy your day
                  -WD
                  It terrifies me that you're not willing to open your mind. Not only from the perspective of an atheist (or agnostic) but also from other religions: Buddhism, Muslim... etc.

                  EVERY person within each faith will say they are certain their God exists, if they have one. It's concerning that you're willing to stick your head in the sand and not rationally question anything about life, and take your religion as fact when it clearly is not.

                  I'm not saying you shouldn't be religious. I'm not saying religious people are bad. I'm also not going to lie: I'm not saying religion as a universal "idea" is, in 2015, influencing society in a positive way when it's clearly getting in the way of scientific studies, and continues to indoctrinate children because they know no better.

                  If you find peace in your beliefs... great! I think you should continue believing what you want. Just don't claim your beliefs as facts, because not only is that a bit of an oxymoron, but it screams naivety. And, most importantly: don't use your beliefs as a way to discriminate against others' (I'm sure you don't!).

                  Daniel
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                    Let him go. He can not see. He will not understand.

                    It is a waste of your personal resources to insist on giving sight to a person who chooses to remain blind.


                    Joe Mobley


                    Originally Posted by Alast View Post

                    It terrifies me that you're not willing to open your mind.
                    Daniel
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                    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
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                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                        Banned
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                        • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
                          Hi Frank.

                          You can block me anytime. I did you.
                          But. I will say this. I am moved with compassion for you. I know you have this struggle I no longer have. maybe if you opened your heart he might do the same for you.
                          Either way I hold no ill will towards you. I am sorry you get angry but I don't apologize for speaking. I am not interested in being popular
                          -WD
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                      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                        The unfortunate thing here is that you... do not understand where you are coming from.

                        I can appreciate that you are emotionally invested in your religious beliefs, however, this is not the time or place to push those beliefs.

                        Let it go.

                        Joe Mobley



                        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post


                        Thanks for your comments I hope this gives a good understanding of where I am coming from.

                        have a great day Daniel
                        -WD
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

              Why would I want to prove blue fairies don't exist, I suppose if you have drugs all things can exist. I remember seeing a hundred foot pink elephant when I took acid. way back when

              more to the point. God, specifically Jesus Christ does exist. I do not feel a 'supernatural" power I know He does because I am living right now. Faith is the evidence of things unseen. sorry you fail.
              This won't end well implies you can do something. You can't you cannot give one logical reason why anything exists. so you resort to blue fairies. There are some pretty powerful drugs that make all sorts of things exist.
              God does exist creation proves it only people like you like to try and prove something you cannot and one day you will inevitably meet this non existent God.
              Sucks to be you.

              Oh, I didn't see the part about natural disasters and the like, so man is in a fallen state, this is why you need a savior. God is not responsible for all these things. Even if He was, all the more reason to turn to Him. The wages of sin is death. if you didn't want to hear this, then I would suggest not slamming people of faith, I have no issue defending. I know God exists Your argument is like many others but it is very weak. There is only one God. only one way you can enter heaven that is by Jesus Christ the Lord who is blessed forever amen.
              Best,
              -WD
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

              Why would I want to prove blue fairies don't exist, I suppose if you have drugs all things can exist. I remember seeing a hundred foot pink elephant when I took acid. way back when
              You missed the point. And you always will.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    o.k T but the internet is far from the creation of all things
    valid points though.


    Thanks ian. glad you fixed that for me
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    Guys, I started this thread as a means to show an interesting new development in science, and I did so in hopes that we could have a good discussion on the implications this new development might have on our understanding of the origins of the Universe. You all know better than to turn this into an argument about Religion/God, so please just stop now. I'd rather this thread be a discussion about science and ideas, rather than yet another pointless "debate" about a person's belief in God, or lack thereof.

    Can we please steer this conversation back to the original topic?
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      So I take it that we are not getting back on topic with this thread.


      Post #89
      Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

      Guys, I started this thread as a means to show an interesting new development in science, and I did so in hopes that we could have a good discussion on the implications this new development might have on our understanding of the origins of the Universe. You all know better than to turn this into an argument about Religion/God, so please just stop now. I'd rather this thread be a discussion about science and ideas, rather than yet another pointless "debate" about a person's belief in God, or lack thereof.

      Can we please steer this conversation back to the original topic?
      Joe Mobley
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        So I take it that we are not getting back on topic with this thread.


        Post #89


        Joe Mobley
        It was quickly discovered that the article the OP linked to was a clever spoof/fake, put up an a site full of that stuff. So we are back to the boring old original Big Bang theory of which their was no real mileage to argue about. The Grand design and a Creator discourses are the only reasons it kept going.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        So I take it that we are not getting back on topic with this thread.


        Post #89


        Joe Mobley
        Well..........the nature of the existence of the Universe seems to be the topic, so we're not that far off, actually.

        It's interesting to me, and on a different thread now, that they're firing up the Cern reactor again in light of the possibility that the big bang theory just isn't holding water. That means that if there was no big bang - nothing that they do there is going to replicate something that didn't happen. So -- they're going to be kinda like that Rocky and Bullwinkle clip where Bullwinkle pulls the wrong kind of animal out of his hat and says he needs a new hat.
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  • Profile picture of the author cuhuygiapne
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by cuhuygiapne View Post

      In physical terms, the model describes the universe as being filled with a quantum fluid. The scientists propose that this fluid might be composed of gravitons--hypothetical massless particles that mediate the force of gravity. If they exist, gravitons are thought to play a key role in a theory of quantum gravity.
      In a related paper, Das and another collaborator, Rajat Bhaduri of McMaster University, Canada, have lent further credence to this model. They show that gravitons can form a Bose-Einstein condensate (named after Einstein and another Indian physicist, Satyendranath Bose) at temperatures that were present in the universe at all epochs.

      Motivated by the model's potential to resolve the Big Bang singularity and account for dark matter and dark energy, the physicists plan to analyze their model more rigorously in the future. Their future work includes redoing their study while taking into account small inhomogeneous and anisotropic perturbations, but they do not expect small perturbations to significantly affect the results.

      "It is satisfying to note that such straightforward corrections can potentially resolve so many issues at once,"

      I'll bet you can't explain in your own words what you just said there.


      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        I'll bet you can't explain in your own words what you just said there.
        Terra
        It's just copied and pasted from the original article, with spam links - just reported it to the mods.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          It's just copied and pasted from the original article.
          And I bet those links after it are not back to the original article either. Intelligent Design Spamming, i'll be bound.
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          • Profile picture of the author Cali16
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            An I bet those links after it are not back to the original article either. Intelligent Design Spamming, i'll be bound.
            Yes, just realized that after I posted (and edited my post). Just another spammer.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          It's just copied and pasted from the original article, with spam links - just reported it to the mods.
          I know. That was my point.


          I did too.


          Terra
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