A Little Discourse On Real Passive Income

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I thought I would put this down here as their are some sharp minds who would like to debate, ridicule, joke or even agree with my reasoning.

The only REAL path to truly passive income is Venture Capitalism. Before you click away though I am not really talking about the Rich Peoples version but something that we can all afford to do.

When I look at Shark Tank, my favorite TV show, I see a bunch of people who are all billionaires or have something approaching that. Now I am not going to pontificate on how they got there money much, some hard work, loans, a bit of luck. The fact is, they have it, they could all retire right now and live a life of luxury. but for some reason they choose not too. They probably just enjoy doing what they do, and good luck to them.

In no uncertain terms though. Whatever they put money into on Shark Tank is collectively a drop in the bucket for them. Just the interest on their core money probably covers the little investments they make each month. And, after investing, do they really help run the persons business, give advice?, nope, I'm sure they have teams of trusted people to do it for them. They just turn up now and again to have their mugs pictured with the success stories.

Cuban said that 30 percent of the business fail, that still means 70 percent don't. With moderate successes and really good ones I'm sure they get there money back, often many times over and it's ongoing until the product demand dries up. This could be years though. Sure, it's a risk when you invest in anything. But, their are risks that can be gauged well by experience as to be acceptable.

This is the closest thing to pure passive income I have ever witnessed.

So how can the rest of us benefit from that concept. We don't have billions to invest?.

Some of us think that when we go into IM we hardly have to work and can get riches overnight. That's not the case, unless we hit a rich vein of demand and get lucky. It's very rare. Most give up in a short space of time, disillusioned. Go back to working for others.

Using the Warrior forum special offers as a yardstick it boils down to, I have done this, I will teach you how to do it too. So you set about following their (sometimes lacking) instructions and if it does not produce results quickly, or get bored with it, you move onto another WSO. Over time, you may pick up some skills but not be earning and give up.

Then you get the We Will Do Everything For You offers. They will set up an excellent site or funnel based on a good product or service and when it gets to the end of the sales page they casually mention: And all you have to do is drive the traffic. Oh dear, heart sinks, not really doing everything for you is it! You don't have the money for radio or TV ad's either.

Funnily enough, recently, while thinking about this small scale venture capitalism Idea I had no less than 2 emails drop into my inbox with people offering to do just that. Do everything for you without the missing pieces. So they are out their. sure, a risk, but not so much of a risk that if I pay them a modest fee or monthly subscription that it would leave me destitute and broke. I am talking about spending money that you may have left over from working a job and if it does not work out you could cancel your subscription to the service. Even if you find an offer to set up a site or service that is appealing and you have to independently source traffic to it, (not talking about adwords here, more some company that would do it for you) then even that would be worth considering.

I am not talking about sourcing people in Thailand or something here, fraught with hazards. Just saying to a company, here's my site, send traffic to it. I will pay you. Check your ROI at the end of the month and if its not making a profit, cancel and move on.

Remember, I am talking about minimum work, passive income.

Considering the amount of people who venture into IM, open their wallets and shell out their money on course after course, and the failure rate is colossal. I would rather do the small investments into ventures like I have described above.

Your thoughts...
  • Profile picture of the author agc
    The only RELIABLE real passive income I found so far is real estate, specifically residential rentals.

    I have money in the stock market, and on average I make money but the volatility means that i can't DEPEND on that income.

    I have money in private equity. Same deal. Eventually I get a decent payoff, but that wont pay my bills today.

    I have money in reits. Same deal. none of them spin off cash that I can use to pay my bills month in and month out.

    But a few years back I started buying distressed rental properties, renovating them, and renting them. THOSE spin off cash like a damn Rolex. tick tick cha ching tick tick cha ching tick tick cha ching.

    I imagine commercial spins off rent income too, but I see commercial properties that go vacant for extended periods. But I can always rent residential... just lower the rent until interested tenants line up to give me their money.

    At this point I can quit my day job... something I never managed to do with my online stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Another interesting one lately is pooled lending. There are a few of them out there, and the returns seem OK. But I don't like the default risk with direct to consumer credit, so I haven't tried these myself.

    I have too much real estate in the pipeline to keep me busy. The next property should rent out for 1600 a month, I figure 16k a year, w/ 2 months on taxes and water and such.

    This will take me to 7200 a month with about as near to zero volatility as you can get. Occasionally I'll have one go vacant when I cant get it rented right away and I lose one month. Figure two vacancy months out of 120 tenant months per year... or 2 percent. No big deal really.

    If I'm lucky I'll pick up another one this year... take me to maybe 8400 a month. And once I finish a property the money keeps coming in without me rolling out of bed.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Thanks for your input there AGC. I was going to discount such things as Stocks and Shares due to it's volatility, level of expertise needed and constant need need for attention. Can work, but not passive. Real
      Estate, can be very lucrative but generally needs some level of larger financial input and the property needs maintenance and fixing up. I'm sure, if your good at these it still is ultimately better than working for others and gives you more return and free time. Great that you are!
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The only REAL path to truly passive income is Venture Capitalism
        I agree but I don't think you'll find it in inbox emails.

        Best way is to be invited to join investment groups - and these are usually private invitations. These aren't the seminars to sell you - or open to anyone and everyone.

        One such group that I know of personally is made up of vetted investors who loan money to successful businesses that need cash to expand or renovate and don't have time/interest in going through standard lenders.

        The loans are short term - 6-12 months - and the interest is paid monthly until the full loan has been repaid. Example: Invest $100k at 13% and the investor is paid $1100+ per month (interest) for 6-12 months or until the loan is repaid in a lump sum. The loans, however, are in the millions as the investment group is 20+ people or so. This kind of investing is safer than most, collateralized - and highly profitable.

        What people don't realize when they talk about "earn passive income" is almost always you need to have money to make money that way. The alternative is to put in a lot of work hoping to reach the point of "passive income".
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          I'm not a real investor. Mutual funds, and that's it. But I write books. And every book I write spins off a perpetual monthly income.

          Sorry, it's just not a field of expertise for me.
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          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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            My best passive income is from Apple stock and from being a pooled lender on LendingClub.com.

            Just a reminder. I advised everyone that Apple would hit $200 per share by the end of the year. I believe it was at $100 when I made that claim. Last I checked it was at $132. Not too late to board the gravy train. :-)

            Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I'm not a real investor. Mutual funds, and that's it. But I write books. And every book I write spins off a perpetual monthly income.

            Sorry, it's just not a field of expertise for me.
            You have serious leanings to being a Shark, you eat everything in front of you!

            All truthing aside.

            You have worked hard, written books, get passive income from them, have a (evil) cult following. Your video's helped save your business and boosted your sales.

            You put in the effort and are reaping the rewards. Qu-Dos to you. Have you considered getting a trusted employee or two to run your business (store) for you? Or, are you attached to it, even enjoy doing it. Not necessarily what you are selling but the sales technique and interaction with customers side of it? I have not even mentioned your local marketing stuff!

            Seems now you MAY be in a position to pay others to run it for you?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The answer is just so obvious. Marry someone wealthy and then divorce them in a year. Take your half and go find a new rich guy.

    This only sounds like a joke. I know a few women who actually did that.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Thanks for your replies.

      So far we have got:

      Stocks and Shares, Real Estate, Venture Capitalists Collectives (marrying a rich person then divorcing I will ignore :-))

      None of these is passive and all require some knowledge, maintenance and effort and substantial startup funds. all are offline activities. (apart from stocks and shares

      I was talking about online stuff.

      Lets do an example. Fred hears about this internet marketing thing and the WF and see's all the juicy ads from people who will teach him how to do a website and make money from it for 7 bucks. Wow, thats cheap he says and buys it. It is incomplete, sketchy at best, and missing the important bit about the traffic. Fred tries another, then another, spends a lot of cash until he becomes fed up and quits.

      Mr Smart Guy hears about IM and the WF. He see's things a little differently. He looks at the ads for the teach you how stuff but then hones in on a well known Warriors Amazon product Sites, self updating, ready to go and can be uploaded to a new server with a different domain name each time, 30 to 40 times, because has 30-40 categories in the product line niche. Easily, he can front each site's front page with the particular product sub-category and it still contains all the rest of the products. So he gets 30-40 quality Amazon selling sites for the price of one.

      He then looks around for a online paid service that sends traffic to whatever sites he wants. He knows that if you get a few people to Amazon you will get sales. It's rather like dropping people off in Walmart for a specific product. They may or may not buy that product, but you bet they will look around and buy something, or several items.

      Whats the difference between Fred and Mr Smart Guy. Fred felt in order to do and profit from IM you had to learn it from scratch. Mr Smart guy saw it as an investment opportunity, saw a pre-done product. and exploited it with minimum work. Mr Smart Guy is probably the winner. ANYONE can be Mr Smart guy if they learn to think like that.

      If you look at the TV ads you see a ton of these weirdly named search and compare websites for Hotels, cars, whatever. All that they are is affiliate linked scripts to the various vendors put together by a developer. Then, a collective of Venture Capitalists paid for some ads. Instant brand awareness and affiliate sales.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Thanks for your replies.

        So far we have got:

        Stocks and Shares, Real Estate, Venture Capitalists Collectives (marrying a rich person then divorcing I will ignore :-))

        None of these is passive and all require some knowledge, maintenance and effort and substantial startup funds. all are offline activities. (apart from stocks and shares

        I was talking about online stuff.

        Lets do an example. Fred hears about this internet marketing thing and the WF and see's all the juicy ads from people who will teach him how to do a website and make money from it for 7 bucks. Wow, thats cheap he says and buys it. It is incomplete, sketchy at best, and missing the important bit about the traffic. Fred tries another, then another, spends a lot of cash until he becomes fed up and quits.

        Mr Smart Guy hears about IM and the WF. He see's things a little differently. He looks at the ads for the teach you how stuff but then hones in on a well known Warriors Amazon product Sites, self updating, ready to go and can be uploaded to a new server with a different domain name each time, 30 to 40 times, because has 30-40 categories in the product line niche. Easily, he can front each site's front page with the particular product sub-category and it still contains all the rest of the products. So he gets 30-40 quality Amazon selling sites for the price of one.

        He then looks around for a online paid service that sends traffic to whatever sites he wants. He knows that if you get a few people to Amazon you will get sales. It's rather like dropping people off in Walmart for a specific product. They may or may not buy that product, but you bet they will look around and buy something, or several items.

        Whats the difference between Fred and Mr Smart Guy. Fred felt in order to do and profit from IM you had to learn it from scratch. Mr Smart guy saw it as an investment opportunity, saw a pre-done product. and exploited it with minimum work. Mr Smart Guy is probably the winner. ANYONE can be Mr Smart guy if they learn to think like that.

        If you look at the TV ads you see a ton of these weirdly named search and compare websites for Hotels, cars, whatever. All that they are is affiliate linked scripts to the various vendors put together by a developer. Then, a collective of Venture Capitalists paid for some ads. Instant brand awareness and affiliate sales.
        Google has a habit of smacking the snot out of sites like this. If it were that easy, I would think that there would not be a 97% failure rate in cyberspace. Mr smart guy isn't doing that much different from Fred - he just has more money to outsource a little bit.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Google has a habit of smacking the snot out of sites like this. If it were that easy, I would think that there would not be a 97% failure rate in cyberspace. Mr smart guy isn't doing that much different from Fred - he just has more money to outsource a little bit.
          You will note Mr Smart Guy has heard of this algorithm merry-go-round and only uses paid sources for his traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
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    Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    ^ Actually, rather than being the winner, Mr Smart Guy probably ends up with a bunch of worthless junk for his money. He doesn't want to understand it, doesn't want to manage it. Want to guess where it ends up? Nowhere. At least Fred worked to understand and manage his business. if he fails, he at least has an opportunity to come away with a deeper understanding of what needs to happen to be successful. Mr Smart Guy? Not a chance. He's far to smart to bother with those details.

    The ONLY way Mr Smart Guy is going to come out a winner is IF and ONLY IF the person he is partnering with needs his capital to scale and expand an already functioning business and IF and ONLY IF the parter is equally invested in the success or failure of Mr Smart Guy's "business". Otherwise, Mr Smart Guy is buying pipe dreams and empty promises being peddled by the usual cast of characters who are happy to sell information knowing that the low odds of being put to good use don't matter since the seller has no skin in the buyers game.

    Ianfear... how much passive income are you generating, and on what amount invested?
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by agc View Post

      ^ Actually, rather than being the winner, Mr Smart Guy probably ends up with a bunch of worthless junk for his money. He doesn't want to understand it, doesn't want to manage it. Want to guess where it ends up? Nowhere. At least Fred worked to understand and manage his business. if he fails, he at least has an opportunity to come away with a deeper understanding of what needs to happen to be successful. Mr Smart Guy? Not a chance. He's far to smart to bother with those details.

      The ONLY way Mr Smart Guy is going to come out a winner is IF and ONLY IF the person he is partnering with needs his capital to scale and expand an already functioning business and IF and ONLY IF the parter is equally invested in the success or failure of Mr Smart Guy's "business". Otherwise, Mr Smart Guy is buying pipe dreams and empty promises being peddled by the usual cast of characters who are happy to sell information knowing that the low odds of being put to good use don't matter since the seller has no skin in the buyers game.

      Ianfear... how much passive income are you generating, and on what amount invested?
      Mr Smart Guy Partners with No One. He bought the best self updating Amazon auto-posting script out there. It updates itself with new product from Amazon in the particular niche on a regular basis..It needs no maintenance. He just rents the web-space to host it and buys the domain names to front each site.
      Then, he buys the traffic. that's all.

      This is just one example of many.
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      • Profile picture of the author agc
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Mr Smart Guy Partners with No One. He bought the best self updating Amazon auto-posting script out there. It updates itself with new product from Amazon in the particular niche on a regular basis..It needs no maintenance. He just rents the web-space to host it and buys the domain names to front each site.
        Then, he buys the traffic. that's all.
        How much money are you currently making with this method?

        How long do you expect your revenue stream to last before it gets shut down, cannibalized, commoditized, or marginalized?
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by agc View Post

          How much money are you currently making with this method?

          How long do you expect your revenue stream to last before it gets shut down, cannibalized, commoditized, or marginalized?
          Discussing how much money I have made with this or any other method was not the point of the thread. It was to talk about a change of approach and thinking/mentality and if their was any validity to it.
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          • Profile picture of the author arttse
            Have you thought about starting an online business and outsourcing all aspects of the business?
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by arttse View Post

              Have you thought about starting an online business and outsourcing all aspects of the business?
              In a sense it is outsourcing, but not getting someone from Thailand to do it. You would have to be giving them explicit instructions as to what to do. You don't know what to do. Your just an investor. So, your entrusting a service with a monthly fee to do the traffic for example.
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          • Profile picture of the author agc
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            Discussing how much money I have made with this or any other method was not the point of the thread. It was to talk about a change of approach and thinking/mentality and if their was any validity to it.
            Ahh ok :-)

            short version then: Passive income is seldom truly passive. What happens is that people learn how to manage it effectively, so that what you think of as intimidating (maintenance on rentals) I think of as trivial (call the plumber, pay $60, resume golf game).

            You are thinking in terms of Amazon sites as if they are trivial to build. just throw a new one out there and wham another $x per month.

            In my experience, they are trivial so long as you don't care about the quality, but quality content is expensive, either in time or in money. And if a quality site that will make you $50 a month costs $500.... is that a good investment? Hey, a year from now you're profitable. Seems obviouss.

            But to make enough sites to cover your house, car, unitilites, insurance, and gas, say you need $2500 a month. That's 50 sites. Thats a $25,000 investment. Do you have 25,000 laying around?

            What happens if you invest the full 25,000, and 4 months later, Amazon cancels their affiliate program? Or the guy you're buying traffic from gets cut off from his source? Or some other big blow up happens?

            Also.... Amazon sites aren't really passive. Products get discontinued. New products get introduced. Figure at least 10% to 20% maintenance per year on a running site. $500 to build it, $100 a year to update and freshen it.

            So if you want to build an online business, great! But don't expect "set it and forget it". Nothing even close in fact.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by agc View Post

              Ahh ok :-)

              short version then: Passive income is seldom truly passive. What happens is that people learn how to manage it effectively, so that what you think of as intimidating (maintenance on rentals) I think of as trivial (call the plumber, pay $60, resume golf game).

              You are thinking in terms of Amazon sites as if they are trivial to build. just throw a new one out there and wham another per month.

              In my experience, they are trivial so long as you don't care about the quality, but quality content is expensive, either in time or in money. And if a quality site that will make you $50 a month costs $500.... is that a good investment? Hey, a year from now you're profitable. Seems obviouss.

              But to make enough sites to cover your house, car, unitilites, insurance, and gas, say you need $2500 a month. That's 50 sites. Thats a $25,000 investment. Do you have 25,000 laying around?

              What happens if you invest the full 25,000, and 4 months later, Amazon cancels their affiliate program? Or the guy you're buying traffic from gets cut off from his source? Or some other big blow up happens?

              Also.... Amazon sites aren't really passive. Products get discontinued. New products get introduced. Figure at least 10% to 20% maintenance per year on a running site. $500 to build it, $100 a year to update and freshen it.

              So if you want to build an online business, great! But don't expect "set it and forget it". Nothing even close in fact.
              Like I said before, this is mindset stuff. And the Amazon Idea was an example. This could be but one string for your earning bow. Find enough different small investments that produces more than you put in and works consistantly. If it was just one like Amazon, they could pull the plug on your affiliate sites anytime by closing your account for any reason they choose. You must be diverse. Then if one fails you have others to fall back on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      As others have said, without significant funds, it's going to be hard to generate any worthwhile passive income. Most of those "business in a box" and "done for you" offers aren't really venture capital opportunities; they're designed to prey on the laziness or inexperience of biz-op seekers.

      The quoted success ratios of the Shark Tank ventures, if they're anything like the British equivalent Dragon's Den versions, would be skewed by the massive publicity each pitch on the show automatically generates. In the real world, successful outcomes rely much more heavily on the knowledge and expertise of the investors. But it's certainly possible to generate passive(ish) income by investing in selected businesses, ideally those in which you have a degree of experience, provided you've done your due diligence on how they're being run, and their potential for growth.


      Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        As others have said, without significant funds, it's going to be hard to generate any worthwhile passive income. Most of those "business in a box" and "done for you" offers aren't really venture capital opportunities; they're designed to prey on the laziness or inexperience of biz-op seekers.

        The quoted success ratios of the Shark Tank ventures, if they're anything like the British equivalent Dragon's Den versions, would be skewed by the massive publicity each pitch on the show automatically generates. In the real world, successful outcomes rely much more heavily on the knowledge and expertise of the investors. But it's certainly possible to generate passive(ish) income by investing in selected businesses, ideally those in which you have a degree of experience, provided you've done your due diligence on how they're being run, and their potential for growth.


        Frank
        Actually Frank, although I am an avid watcher of Shark Tank, I would be hard pressed to remember any of the products from the previous episode when the new one comes around. But perhaps they get a surge in interest and sales for a while. Like all products though, you have to keep plugging them and reminding people about them to obtain long term success.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Good luck with that.

    Who is selling that paid traffic? At what price? If that paid traffic was worth more than it is being sold for... it wouldn't be selling for it's current price.

    So you found someone who has scuds of traffic and they can't back it with affiliate sites without your help?

    I bet I could write a script in about half a day that would map a page hit to a particular amazon product, then load an affiliate page with that amazon product. If there's no need for search indexing and ranking, then there's no duplicate content penalty. Just spin up some content and present the amazon product links.

    Now if I have thousands of dollars worth of such traffic each month, why would I partner with someone rather than just cashing the check directly?
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