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A few questions for the guitar players of the forum.......

by cconlan
19 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
Hey everyone,

I am working on a project for people beginning to play the guitar. Your answers will help me out a lot with the development of my project. I have 2 sets of questions. The first is for those who are learning the guitar and the second is for those who are teaching. I am really interested in seeing how people differ in their preferred learning formats. Your time is much appreciated!

Learning the Guitar - Research Questionnaire

1. How long have you been playing the guitar for?

A. less than a year
B. 1- 3 years
C. 3 - 5 years
D. 5 - 10 years
E. more than 10 years.


2. How did you learn to play?

A. Formal Lessons
B. Books
C. Internet (websites and videos)
D. DVDs

3. What was your reason for this choice?


4. If you used a combination of the above, which did you find easiest to learn from?


5. If you used the internet, which websites and videos did you find useful and why?


6. Do you have any knowledge of Music Theory?


7. If you answered yes to the previous question, are you able to apply that knowledge to y9ur own music? (composing and improvising)


Questionnaire For Guitar Tutors

1. How long have you been teaching guitar for?

A. 0 - 3 years
B. 3 - 5 years
C. 5 - 10 years
D. more than 10 years

2. Are you familiar with VARK? (vark-learn.com)


3. Do you find your students respond particularly well to a one of the following?

A. Visual learning
B. Aural learning
C. Reading/Writing
D. Kinesthetic learning

4. Do you explain to your students the purpose of what you are teaching them? For example why do you learn scales?


5. Do you use practical examples when teaching music theory?


6. Do you find students dislike learning music theory or do they enjoy it?


7. How did you learn to play the guitar?


8. How did you learn music theory and was it a chore?
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Hi,

    You may want to search for a similar thread, I think it
    was here in the OT forum, in which someone asked
    for advice about creating a learning guitar course.

    Steve Wagenheim (sp? sorry Steve), who is a musician,
    offered some very good advice on the matter. He basically
    cautioned against it for some very good reasons. Worth
    considering, at least.
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      1. How long have you been playing the guitar for?

      A. less than a year
      B. 1- 3 years
      C. 3 - 5 years
      D. 5 - 10 years
      E. more than 10 years.
      11 years I think.


      2. How did you learn to play?

      A. Formal Lessons
      B. Books
      C. Internet (websites and videos)
      D. DVDs
      B. I can read music. I preferred tabulature for guitar for
      many years though - most people will find the staff harder
      to read than tabs - though of course, once your grasp of
      theory deepens the staff becomes more logical and actually
      removes interpretive limitations imposed by tabulature.

      I also play be ear.

      3. What was your reason for this choice?
      Studied piano as a kid so I was used to sight-reading. Some
      of the music I like to play is not easy to find other people
      who play it in my country. If I liked to play rock music it
      would be different because lots of people know the style
      it's easy to find ways to learn it.

      4. If you used a combination of the above, which did you find easiest to learn from?
      Not really a good question, IMO. I can read, I can improvise, I can
      pick-up on what others are playing and vibe with it. I learned the
      most from playing songs with other people, but my technical facility,
      developed from reading music and studying theory, allowed me to
      be able to learn in pressure situations, as in playing with others.

      5. If you used the internet, which websites and videos did you find useful and why?
      As a practical matter I never used the internet to learn about guitar

      6. Do you have any knowledge of Music Theory?
      Yes.

      7. If you answered yes to the previous question, are you able to apply that knowledge to y9ur own music? (composing and improvising)
      Yes.


      Guitar instructional products are abundant, cheap to get, saturated,
      and in many cases have substantial marketing money behind them,
      like Mel Bay.

      What's you competitive angle? What can you do better than
      what's been done?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by cconlan View Post

    Hey everyone,

    I am working on a project for people beginning to play the guitar
    I am going to make this short and to the point. Take it for what it's worth
    to you...I know what I'm talking about.

    People don't care about this sh*t.

    They want to go to Youtube and watch a video that will either...

    1. Show them some cool chord progressions.
    2. Show them some cool leads.
    3. Show them some cool effects.

    Nobody wants to learn theory. They want a 3 minute video to turn
    them into Hendrix.

    Don't waste your time with this product. You will end up seriously
    disillusioned and bitter after putting in so much work and getting nothing
    in return.

    The competition is off the charts and as one person asked, what do you
    have to offer that's so wonderful?

    Answer that question and maybe you have a shot.

    I am a musician my whole life. I have hung out with just about every
    lazy lout you can think of. Our instant gratification world has no patience
    for sitting down with a guitar course. And the ONLY reason crap like Mel
    Bay even sells is because parents shove it down their kids' throats because
    they've been lead to believe that it's the premier guitar course.

    As much as I love music, two pages of that crap and I threw the book
    away.

    I ended up learning everything by ear...listening and imitating.

    That's what you're up against.

    Good luck trying to buck a trend that has more momentum than a Tiger
    Woods tee shot.
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    • Profile picture of the author cconlan
      Steven you sound kinda bitter about this? Guess you have failed in any ventures you have tried in this market? Thanks for expressing your opinion but that is all it is at the end of the day. Just your opinion. I will take it on board though. I think you are jumping the gun. Where did I say on this thread that I was gonna sell this? I have not said anything about monetizing from what I am doing.

      Yes this is an internet marketing forum and notice I have put this in the "off Topic Forum". I have had different experiences from you and actually am near the end of my BSc in Music Technology. I am surrounded by more than just "louts" but people who are actually interested in all aspects of music. It may amaze you but some people do actually care about music theory and how they can apply it. Would you play any sport without knowing the rules?
      Would Burt Bacharach or Hans Zimmer be as successful if they didn't know music theory? Would John Petrucci, Steve Vai or Joe Satriani be virtuosos if they did not study music theory?

      Can you write your music in whatever genre that is asked of you? If yes then that is great and I guess I have nothing new to offer. If no then what I am working on will help you. I respect you can play by ear and that is a great invaluble skill you have developed.

      I respect your opinion Steven and I think it is good of you to try and steer me clear of where you see a pitfall. The thing is I really enjoy music and there are plenty of others who do too. Anyone in the real world knows that anything worth learning is not easy. If that were the case everyone would be a guitar virtuoso or an amazing composer like J.S Bach. I don't feel I am wasting my time at all. I am not looking to sell people some junk that I can make a quick buck off. I am looking to offer people a useful resource.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by cconlan View Post

        Steven you sound kinda bitter about this? Guess you have failed in any ventures you have tried in this market? Thanks for expressing your opinion but that is all it is at the end of the day. Just your opinion. I will take it on board though. I think you are jumping the gun. Where did I say on this thread that I was gonna sell this? I have not said anything about monetizing from what I am doing.

        Yes this is an internet marketing forum and notice I have put this in the "off Topic Forum". I have had different experiences from you and actually am near the end of my BSc in Music Technology. I am surrounded by more than just "louts" but people who are actually interested in all aspects of music. It may amaze you but some people do actually care about music theory and how they can apply it. Would you play any sport without knowing the rules?
        Would Burt Bacharach or Hans Zimmer be as successful if they didn't know music theory? Would John Petrucci, Steve Vai or Joe Satriani be virtuosos if they did not study music theory?

        Can you write your music in whatever genre that is asked of you? If yes then that is great and I guess I have nothing new to offer. If no then what I am working on will help you. I respect you can play by ear and that is a great invaluble skill you have developed.

        I respect your opinion Steven and I think it is good of you to try and steer me clear of where you see a pitfall. The thing is I really enjoy music and there are plenty of others who do too. Anyone in the real world knows that anything worth learning is not easy. If that were the case everyone would be a guitar virtuoso or an amazing composer like J.S Bach. I don't feel I am wasting my time at all. I am not looking to sell people some junk that I can make a quick buck off. I am looking to offer people a useful resource.

        I should have clarified some of my answer but I am having a bad day
        today.

        Yes, there are people who care deeply about music theory.

        Know where they go?

        To school, to college. That's what the serious ones do.

        They don't buy ebooks.

        As for any failures, no, not one. I have never tried, nor will I ever try to
        create a how to play a musical instrument course for the online "give it to
        me today" market. The people I'd reach are in Juilliard or at the very least,
        at a decent music school.

        And no, I am not bitter. Not in the least. I love music. But I've been
        marketing online for almost 7 years now and I know what to stay far away
        from. My advice was nothing more than a warning should you decide to
        create this course for marketing online. If that is not your intention, then
        you have my apologies.

        You seem to have your convictions, so you're going to do what you want
        anyway. So what I have to ask is, if that's the case, why did you want
        our feedback anyway?

        Amazes me how people only want to hear what they want to hear and if
        they hear something else, they argue with you.

        You'll ultimately do what's right for you.

        I was just giving you my professional two cents on the subject.

        But what do I know? I'm just a 6 figure a year marketer.

        Silly me.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Oh, and one other thing. I do know my music theory. I learned it in college
          where I got a minor in music.

          I almost never use it, or at most use a fraction of it.

          It's just not necessary for writing pop songs.

          And if you want to hear some of my stuff, go to YouTube and look up
          user Wagtunes. I'm entering a song contest this year that will be judged in
          March.

          Anyway, that's all I have to say on the subject.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Okay, one last thing.

            I come from a musical home. My mother was a concert pianist and an opera
            singer and my father was a composer...both classically taught. I grew up
            listening to my mother either playing Chopin or Beethoven on the piano
            or singing arias from "Carmen" or "Madam Butterfly." I'd put my musical
            knowledge and background up against just about anybody in this forum.

            Guess what?

            It doesn't mean squat in the marketing world.

            Your market is a tough sell. The rockers don't want it and the long hairs
            won't trust the source.

            Again, I'm speaking as an expert on marketing, not as a musician.

            And yes, to answer your other question, I could write any song in any
            genre, not because of all the music theory I learned but because I can
            listen to something, understand it, and reproduce it. The problem is. most
            people don't know how to listen to music. With classical, you have to
            listen to each part separately.

            For example, if you're going to write a piece for string quartet, then you
            have to sit down and listen to the violin, viola, cello and bass parts
            separately. You have to watch how each musical line moves.

            You then have to look at the style...and there are many.

            Finally, you need some imagination and talent...and let me tell you...no
            book, or school for that matter, is going to give you talent. You either
            have it or you don't.

            I could keep going (I could talk about music forever) but I'll only end up
            boring you to death.

            Like I said, you're going to do what you're going to do.

            I'm just trying to prepare you for what's inevitably going to be coming
            down the pike.

            It won't be pretty.
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            • Profile picture of the author cconlan
              Thank you for your Replies Steven.I am sorry that you have had a bad day and I hope tomorrow is better for you..
              I do appreciate the time you have taken to type back to me and I can see you are passionate about music. I am sorry if I came accross angry at your response which is not the case. You seem like a good guy to have a good chat with and I'm sure I would have a great discussion with you on music.
              A few things you have said I would like to respond to now:

              " You seem to have your convictions, so you're going to do what you want
              anyway. So what I have to ask is, if that's the case, why did you want
              our feedback anyway?"


              I want your feedback and many others to understand how different people have been taught with different formats. Just because I'm not selling what I am doing still doesn't mean that I don't wanna find out a bit about different guitar players past and how I can provide a more helpful and useful resource.


              "Amazes me how people only want to hear what they want to hear and if
              they hear something else, they argue with you."

              If I only wanted to hear what I wanted to hear I wouldn't even have bothered posting these questions. I am not arguing with you either and I am sorry if you think I am. As I said I do appreciate what you are saying to me just I'm just trying to clear a presumption you seem to be making here that I am trying to do something to sell to people here.

               "Your market is a tough sell. The rockers don't want it and the long hairs
              won't trust the source."

              Once again not trying to sell anything here so I should have one over those who are trying to sell something. Have you spoke to all the rockers and the long hairs? (not that I am targeting these folk) Just people who are interested in guitar and music. Shouldn't stereotype people either. There are actually people out their who are into a variety of music.


              "Again, I'm speaking as an expert on marketing, not as a musician."


              I am not doing this for marketing purposes.

              "They don't buy ebooks."

              I am not selling ebooks.

              "With classical, you have to
              listen to each part separately."


              Agreed. Though you need to do this for any type of music that involves different harmonies.


              "Finally, you need some imagination and talent...and let me tell you...no
              book, or school for that matter, is going to give you talent. You either
              have it or you don't."


              I have found this to not be as black and white as you make it to be. I have whitnesed people who have struggled to play a simple riff on the guitar but through practice and determination have ended up playing some pretty intense stuff. My friend went through this and after 3 years of determination and a lot of hours put in he was playing to Dream Theater. The human mind is a wonderful thing isn't it?



              "It's just not necessary for writing pop songs."


              Depends on the pop song I think. Many genres have been in the mainstream and not all are 3 chord wonders. Plus for you this may not be necessary but for others it just might be.
              Music theory can make working anything out that much quicker though and save a lot of time. If you work stuff out by ear thats great but if you combine that with an in depth knowledge of theory that is even better.


              "But what do I know? I'm just a 6 figure a year marketer."


              I'm happy you have achieved this amount of success but this is not about becoming a 6 figure a year marketer. I'm trying to help people not for my own self gain.


              "I'm just trying to prepare you for what's inevitably going to be coming
              down the pike.

              It won't be pretty."


              Whats coming down the pike? and why won't be pretty? As I said I am doing something for free here and people will usually go for something free before they go for something paid and if it's good quality material its a bonus. I can't see why it won't be pretty.


              Anyway those are the points I just wanted to respond to. I'm sorry if I am coming accross rude in anyway as I don't mean to be. I'm sure if we were discussing this in person both sides would be better taken. I often find it can be easy to read something and take it the wrong way. It is also easy to type something that could be read not how you meant it to be.



              Anyhow on a friendly note. What is your favourite genre of music? and also what is your favourite era of classical music?
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  • Profile picture of the author css
    I'll back Steve on this one. I have been playing the guitar for 30 years, and yea I am good and I know theory.

    1. Short answer, I'm not filling out some dip sh!t survey.
    2. After 30 years my conclusion is music sucks.
    3. Gilmore is God.
    4. And most important of all, everyone is already a guitar player.

    On a friendly note (pun) can you make money on it. Hell yes! People get dumber every day. Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author cconlan
      Originally Posted by css View Post

      I'll back Steve on this one. I have been playing the guitar for 30 years, and yea I am good and I know theory.

      1. Short answer, I'm not filling out some dip sh!t survey.
      2. After 30 years my conclusion is music sucks.
      3. Gilmore is God.
      4. And most important of all, everyone is already a guitar player.

      On a friendly note (pun) can you make money on it. Hell yes! People get dumber every day. Cheers
      Cheers for sharing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Well, now that I understand that you're not trying to sell anything, nothing
      that I said means a hill of beans. So just chalk it up to me assuming things.

      That's what happens when you're at a marketing forum.

      I do many things I enjoy just for the fun of it and not to make money. So
      if that's your goal, and maybe even reach a few people who might actually
      get something from it, more power to you.

      My favorite genre of music?

      Impossible to answer. Depends on my mood. The only music I don't like
      is hard core rap. Even stuff like Red Hot Chili Peppers, which is a rap/rock
      mix, I enjoy...especially their song "Snow".

      Classical? Wow...where do I begin. I have many CDs from Brahams to
      heavy duty opera.

      Pop Music? I'm all over the map, from Carpenters to Dragonforce.

      You'd have to search far and wide to find many people with as wide
      a musical range as me. My only complaint is that there isn't enough hours
      in the day to listen to all the music I'd love to listen to. My home is a
      virtual record library (yes, actual records)

      I guess if you put me up against a wall and forced me to choose one
      genre over all others, I'd say Progressive Rock because it combines elements
      of so many genres and opens itself up to quite a bit of experimentation.

      Listen to Kraftwerk after a few drinks.

      If it wasn't for music, I'd probably be one miserable person.

      With all my money.
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  • Profile picture of the author css
    Ah, no problem. I was just kidding about music sucking although sometimes I feel that way. The truth is, it comes in handy when making videos. I don't have to worry about copyrights because it all belongs to me. My buddy has no and I mean no shortage of kids wanting to learn the guitar. Why not make a guitar product you say? The mental pay-off is just not there for me anymore. Work all day and what do you have? Music? Some noise? Twittle dee's and "beats"? Please.
    Anyway, good luck with that.
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  • Profile picture of the author css
    It is a world of extreme's: Steve Via can do anything. Then you have Gilmore who made a whole career out of 5 notes. I could make an ebook about how to play the guitar. Problem is it would be all of one page.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by css View Post

      It is a world of extreme's: Steve Via can do anything. Then you have Gilmore who made a whole career out of 5 notes. I could make an ebook about how to play the guitar. Problem is it would be all of one page.
      Are you talking about David Gilmore of Pink Floyd? If so, I think he used
      more than just 5 notes.
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  • Profile picture of the author css
    Yes Steve I know. It is an... analogy? However many notes he used, I like it alot. To answer cconlan I would say your target niche is 12 to 20 somethings who cannot read a book and understand it, therefore they need a mentor who has a reputation of being a real shredder but is most likely a drunk spiraling into the pits of hell, bound for suicide or an otherwise cruel and mocking death. For a small fee.
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Guitar courses are the sort of thing where it would be a good
      idea to test different affiliate programs and see which ones
      work out for you, then, if the money is there for an affiliate,
      make your own knock-off of what sells.

      That's a pragmatic marketing tactic for a competitive niche.
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      • Profile picture of the author cconlan
        No worries Steven its all good. I apologise for asking such a difficult question because in all honesty I am in the same boat as you. Too many good genres to pin it down to any particular one. I also agree with you on extreme rap music. It's not for me to be honest. I did once enjoy a couple of old NWA tracks but not for me now.

        Thats quite a mix in the "pop" realm you have. Good to see you have such a varied taste in music.

        If you like progressive rock then I suggest you check out Symphony X though I bet you probably are already aquainted with them :p perhaps even have their music in your collection?

        A good bit of elctronic music does seem to sit well with a few drinks for sure If you enjoy chilled out spacial electronic stuff give ulrich schnauss a listen to. You should give me some of your recommendations as I always love being exposed to new music

        I have been giving your tunes a listen to and you really don't sound miserable at all. Your tunes are really happy and your voice kinda reminds me of Fergal Sharkey from The Undertones. Nice work! If you are entering some song contests I wish you success. Do let us know how you get on.
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      • Profile picture of the author cconlan
        Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

        Guitar courses are the sort of thing where it would be a good
        idea to test different affiliate programs and see which ones
        work out for you, then, if the money is there for an affiliate,
        make your own knock-off of what sells.

        That's a pragmatic marketing tactic for a competitive niche.
        Yeah that is something I would give consideration if things went particularly well but really my main goal is to offer something free that will really benefit people interested in writing their own tunes and also how they can use programs like guitar pro and power tab to make the most of their band practices.

        Thanks again Loren for your answers! It is much appreciated
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