Shooting in Colorado

I'm surprised, too. Very surprised.
I've been watching news. It's sad. I don't know what to say.

I'm a nervous wreck. My niece lives in Aurora. I just got off the phone with my sister.

We talked about what makes someone snap. I don't get it. I never will. And how the mother of the shooter knew immediately that it was her son. She must have known the kid had problems.

God bless the people who are mourning the loss of their loves ones and for all those who are wounded.

This is such a terrible tragedy.

I heard this on the news tonight My heart goes out to all those poor people caught up in this tragedy, their family and friends.

There's no "if" that he was mentally unstable. His apartment was/is elaborately booby-trapped; last I saw was that they still haven't been able to gain entry safely.

That is a good question about the back exit, though. The theaters that I've been in all have back doors that lead to the parking lot, but none of them have handles on the outside, presumably to keep the non-payers out. Maybe it was forced open, who knows at this point.

He didn't have a true 'assault rifle'. He may have something that looked like one - but if he'd had a real one, the toll would have been much higher.

Where in the hell did he get a tear-gas canister? And riot gear?

Have the police looked into a fully-loaded cruiser being stolen?

Kay I heard the door had been propped open so perhaps he was in there earlier?

I posted this on FB,but I was looking through craigslist the other day for some exercise equipment and in the sporting goods section someone was selling bullet proof body armour....$350.. so it obviously isn't difficult to find crap like that.
As far as assault rifles? I haven't read much about what he had yet, and I don't own any guns,but I do know that since they are illegal,their are many modificatyion kits out there to make them "semi" automatics,but not true automatics.

So horrible. Another whack job of epic proportions.

What is it about CO? It's so beautiful - Columbine and now this.

My sincere condolences to all the families of the dead and the wounded.

May this demon be taken out (feet first).

It is hard to believe. I went to Gateway High School just down the road from that theater, and lived within minutes of it growing up. Certainly something I just can't understand - and the fact that there were children involved just makes my heart hurt.

I live in aurora and in fact I live about a block from his apartment. It's crazy because it hit so close to home. My husband and I always go to midnight showings and we wanted to see this movie, but thank god for having a little baby because of her we couldnt go. Crazy to think that we could have been there.

Bizarre and tragic to say the least. It's also sad how many people are becoming blase about such events. I was surprised that The Onion, which I normally like, is already making light of this incident. I actually like dark humor, but to joke about a massacre the day after it happens is a little much.
Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

I'm wondering which of the psychotropic drugs THIS one was on. Researchers have found that those drugs not only cause suicide, but now they know that they make people homicidal - and a LOT of the people who open fire like this are later found to be taking those kinds of drugs.

Larry - people taking those drugs take them for a long time. They cause increased psychosis as time goes on. Not saying all shootings are the result of these drugs - but a LOT of them have been.

Take the Unibomber as an example. CIA documents released decades after the incident show that Theodore Kaczynski was a mind control experiment in the shut down MKUltra project. And the guy who killed 33 at that college in VA? He was released from a mental institution and they knew he was at least suicidal. A judge had sentenced him to involuntary mental therapy. Va. Tech Gunman's Records Reveal Disorganized Mental Health System
And how about the Columbine Shooting? Psychotropic drugs there, too. The Real Lesson of Columbine: Psychiatric Drugs Induce Violence » Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Colorado

I will not be one tad surprised that we will soon see news released about which of the psychotropic drugs this shooter was taking.

You'll probably never hear what kind of drugs they gave them - but if he had smoked a joint that would be the headline.

His mother must have suspected something for some time - Most would be stunned in disbelief, whereas she apparently acquiesced immediately when contacted:
Aurora Suspect James Holmes' Mother: "You have the right person," she said, apparently speaking on gut instinct. "I need to call the police... I need to fly out to Colorado."

This poor gal narrowly escaped death via gunfire a few weeks ago, only to be killed in this shootout. This is just so sad.............

Jessica Ghawi, Aurora Colorado shooting victim, narrowly missed Toronto Eaton Centre gunfire | News | National Post

Its bad when you cant take your kids to the movies with out some moron shooting people
.And why didnt some of the guys there step up and take him out 50-60 people .
Also agree with the above post down here anyway you cant just open back doors into the movies there locked and you cant kick them in there steel

Someone had to open the door or left it unlocked.

Kim, I spoke without looking when I wondered where this 'person' could get riot gear. You're right, that kind of stuff is readily gettable.

I still wonder about the tear gas, though. Maybe he concocted his own.

An AR-15 is not an assault rifle in the strict sense of the word, but having the media say "a rifle that looks like a military assault rifle but really isn't" is pretty much a non-starter. A semi-automatic short-barreled deer rifle will do the same damage, if not more, as the AR-15 - but it isn't as glamorous or scary-looking.

Just a clarification, not that anyone really cares at this point:
A true-to-the-original-meaning 'assault rifle' is a rifle that:

• is capable of automatic fire, i.e. the weapon will fire multiple times with a single trigger pull
• is fed with a magazine instead of a belt
• can be fired from the shoulder instead of requiring a stand mount
• is capable of 'selective fire', i.e. switchable between single and automatic fire. Most modern assault weapons also have a switchable short-burst capability, firing a set number of times, usually 3-5, on a single trigger pull

True assault rifles, while not illegal to own in the US, are severely regulated and for all practical purposes for the average person, impossible to obtain.


The term 'assault rifle' has been *******ized for its shock value by various groups to mean 'anything that looks like a military weapon'.


A Colt AR-15, which is reportedly what this )(*&)(*$ used, is a civilian version of the military M16, and is not a true assault rifle.


But tell that to the media.

Yeah, I was just shocked when I read an ad selling it on Craigslist for petes sake.
Makes me wonder if they monitor what people post on there at all.

The tear gas? I wouldn't be surprised if he concocted his own.
Even with the government censorship I'm sure someone could get the information.

Horrible to have this happen.

I heard that he told police he is "the Joker."

Maybe a crazy, distraught fan?

Anyway, condolences to the families involved.

I know a lot of you won't agree with me, but I'm thinking right about now that, with 12 dead and 60+ wounded, the casualty count would have been less if someone in the movie crowd had been armed and not afraid to step in.

A horrible tragedy, I'm not sure what the answer is. Very sad.

Just found he may have posted some adultfriendfinders.com ad for sex 2-3 days prior and mentioned if the person might visit him in prison later. He has red hair in his pic, says he prefers not to say if he does drugs, etc. Not sure if it's him. If it was prior to the shooting, probably was. Nutcase.

Marilyn Manson's commentary for Rolling Stone after Columbine is just as relevant for today's shooting in Colorado : Music

(This is a frank commentary. It may use language and analogy that some may disagree with, but it remains a lucid commentary on media and the celebrity criminal, and many points (imo) are spot-on)

Amazingly accurate article except he is so clueless (first paragraph) and he is sucha sucha (well all the nasty words people use about women) -

...and to compare himself to Jim Morrison - what a *@%!

but yes to stay on topic he is right about the rest.

We glorify violence. You are a weirdo who needs attention? Do something horrible.

Surf the channels - murder, incest, murder, double murder, child molestation, larceny, armed robbery, drive by murder, mass murder, serial murder, torture and murder, murder and cruelty to children and helpless animals -

oh and that is just the news. (lol)

The movies and other programs are even worse perversions, add porn and the worst of all, infomercials that repeat night after night hundreds of times. Makes you want to murder your TV.

Don't mean to 'make light' of a serious tragedy - but we just had the pimp of darkness telling us how it is so I could use a little light.

Dont need todo anything with the gun law we need the normal to tote guns coulda stopped this before it got thisbad. the nuts will get guns no matter what.

Michael Moore has no shame; https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/pos...50931130306857

(America is to blame for this, not the psychopath)

No doubt he will make a new 'documentary,' exploiting the suffering of those who have lost loved ones, just like he did the columbine shooting.

The man just makes me cringe.

-Chris

BTW I haven't heard marlyn mansons music recently enough to give an opinion, but he has some nerve to say he has ANYTHING right. In that weird getup, spouting off hatred about chrsitianity, etc? GIVE ME A BREAK. You can NOT describe light without describing dark. Likewise, you can't talk about the innocent without referring to the guilty, etc... ALSO, it isn't like he often speaks out about this, or tries to be heard.

The Bible, whether you believe it or not, is supposed to be about relationships and their life. In the beginning it speaks of two brothers and one sacrifices more to please god, finds favor, and the other out of hostility kills him. In Esther, she gets married to the king. HEY, that is NOTHING! WHY did THAT get in the bible? People were sentenced to death, etc.... Well, it talks about a planned GENOCIDE and the collusion to prevent it.
But have such things happened because of the Bible? NOPE! Hitler didn't like the church, corrupted it, and fed off of some people's lack of understanding. STILL, that was a MINOR part of his whatever.

As for the half dead man, most have it reduced such that the man is missing. The idea was supposed to be that he ISN'T dead.

If a persons actions were truly governed by what he or she saw, read etc.... The world would be SUCH an easy place. One queston though. The Bible says a lot of good things ALSO! In synagoges, they recite what jesus said were the main laws! In christianity they often require a pledge t the first, and the second is the goal, etc.... The rules? Honor god, and treat your neighbor as yourself. So WHY is the bad taken, but the good isn't? Anyway, the bible is certanly NOT the first such book, and it wasn't the last.

BTW this is NOT a relgious post. I was simply trying to bring reason to the discussion about this book.

Steve

WTF Daily News? Really?

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Gc...jpg_151308.jpg

Things seem to be getting back to normal around there: Local twitter users and tweets in Aurora, CO

The one thing that makes no sense to me...

Why so many people everywhere I read right now, keep blaming it on gun laws etc...

Seriously... a fruitcake like this doesn't need a gun. If he didn't have a gun he would have something else, or make something else. I seriously doubt if there was not 1 gun in the world... it would truly lower the actual murder rate.

People have been murdering other people, long before there were guns.

Now it may very well lower the accidental death rate. But I don't believe it would do a damn thing to murder rates.

It seems everyone is blaming the other side.

More gun laws/ less gun laws. I have my own personal beliefs but Im not going to share them here. Now it is about the people who have lost their lifes. clearly this guy has issues and people are looking for a reason but their isnt one. he was just crazy and blaming the other side isnt going to help.

This happened 2 miles from my house. I know a couple people that were in the theater and they are very shookin up and all the media wants to do is place blame or get internviews on something and it is not the place or the time.

Maybe they should make "Matt McQuinn" famous! He DIED to keep his girlfriend alive! She will probably remember him. I hope she loved him as much.

Steve

This is an old story, granted...but consider this -

Switzerland and the gun -
The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

BBC News | EUROPE | Switzerland and the gun

Some on this thread have put forward the argument that if some of the other patrons had been armed, the lunatic could've been taken down.

In an open, well lit, clean air space that may be true. In this incident however, there would've been crossfire in a smoke filled, dimly lit, enclosed environment with a lot of people running around in panic. That could've made the toll a lot higher than it was.

Anyway, Kyle and Kurt have got it right. This isn't about the 2nd amendment, gun control or personal freedom, it's about the tragic loss of innocent lives.

And a speedy recovery to those who were injured.

It's Not My Job Department?

They interviewed the clerk in the gun store where 3 weeks ago the MASS MURDERER bought an AK- style rifle. (on TV)

These were his comments.

The guy looked crazed.
His eyes were glazed over.
His eyes were as big as silver dollars.
Not somebody who should be buying a gun.
Three weeks later I am shocked that this happened.

-------------

No guilt, no shame, no horror. Just matter-of-fact, so what else is new.


Hello? I don't know about you but I think this idiot should have refused to sell someone a gun that he has made the above observations about.

What would it take for a red flag? Shoot up the store when given his bill?

I would have called the cops on the spot - and yes I know they would probably be prevented from allowing me to refuse to sell a gun - what with the way we are such heroes of civil liberty for criminals and crazies -- but just maybe they would have demanded a 'sobriety test' or watched him.



I am not for gun control and I don't think guns kill people - it is people that kill people.

People who break the law (criminals) would not care if it was against the law or not to have a gun. They would have one. So why take them away from innocent people who would use them responsibly for protection. Makes no sense.

It is a tragic loss. Perhaps I'm just getting inured to violence. It was not my first thought. My first thought was about what was wrong with the guy. Then I started wondering about why Colorado? There have been several "open fire" shootings in Colorado. There have been some serial killers as well - along with just really bizarre single murders. 2 waitresses in Central City that I knew were killed in some pretty hideous incidents.

What is going on with the people of Colorado?

Word to the wise though. Heysal is right. Too much there is happening. If were king, I would be lookng at all their lives to try to tie things together.

PARENTS
BACKGROUND
SCHOOLING
DISTRICTS
CITIES
FOOD
DRINKS
FAITH
BOOKS
POPULAR ITEMS
SURGERY
DRUGS
DOCTORS

They MIGHT find some interesting connection.

OK, maybe I am weird. I never gave into peer pressure. I never wanted to be popular. etc.... But games, books, movies, friends, etc... never affected my choices.

I may quote books, movies, etc... a lot, but some "true" stuff I will discount, and some fiction I will use as examples. When I was a kid, I had an imagination. I still do to a degree. I never let it interfere with reality. I really have a problem when people say little kids are so affected. Then again, I wanted to be an electronic engineer. I didn't want to be a toaster, superman(THE superman in the comics), or even a firefighter(At least t is real, but my goals were realistic for me). ALL are things I have heard kids say they wanted to be. But are they the norm, etc?

Steve

Shooter was on vicodin. Witnesses say he was very calmly walking up and down the aisle shooting at random into the crowd.
He purchased his gear online from a place in Missouri on July 2nd, delivered 2nd day air.
He has no priors, so he legally bought his guns and picked them up after the 10 day waiting period.
Gun bans would have had to have been started in the 1950's to have any effect. If you take away gun rights, the honest folks turn them in and the bad guys still have them. No argument there. You can go into any large city and get whatever weapon you need on the black market and that includes modifications. If someone wants you dead bad enough, there is no magic savior. I know that the news was in no way trying to add any humor to this tragedy, but they were describing just how intense the scene was inside the theater as the theaters security video was being shown and it showed some guy dressed at Batman running out the front door.
R.I.P. The Batman hardcores are mostly good people.

In my opinion, Marilyn Manson (YES, Marilyn Manson), who spoke on the Columbine shooting, had it right in his commentary written 13 years ago that is still as relevant as ever. I think everyone needs to read it now.. I wish more people would pay attention:

From Columbine: Whose Fault Is It? | Culture News | Rolling Stone

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see it was posted already.

To say that we shouldn't count Marilyn Manson's opinion because of the way he looks and performs is just blatant Ad Hominem to me.

Nothing about the Pimp of Darkness' looks or performance is a problem - and he makes some valid points, it is true - I am sure anybody with a working thought process would see what he sees and probably agree.

... but at the same time he is shallow and really severely deluded in some respects - and where it counts the most.


The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it.
Ayn Rand

He isn't the first to commit such a crime, nor will he be the last. I was not commenting in relation to the shooting nor did I interpret Terras comment as such.

-Chris

Well again, criminals and crazies do not care what the law is.

This week in one day, there were 7 separate murders in Oakland, California - and while it was just a little high for one day - it is 'business as usual' in that city. Same story, different day.

... and as far as the fall of western civilization (and the world) don't look now but we have been on the slippery slope for quite some time.

Those of us who believe 'the darkest hour is just before the dawn' know that it is just the beginning of 'Jacob's trouble' and that things are really spiraling out of control faster and faster.

It will keep getting worse before it will get much better than it has ever been.

So wait, watch and DUCK!

Yeah, nobody here thinks this is NEW. It appears to be getting worse, etc... But we are handling it so well because we HAVE seen it before. Suicide by cop, group murder suicide, etc... was apparently UNHEARD OF in the US when I was a kid. So this apparently IS a relatively new problem. Of course many on this board may be half my age, so they feel differently.

I am ALL FOR them coming up with REAL profiles, and using them to determine what otherwise legal person shouldn't get a gun. They keep coming up with UNREAL profiles.

LONER? Come ON! I may be consider a loaner. OH, I talk to the neighbors sometimes, and coworkers, etc... and I could talk their heads off. BTW they LIKE me! I just went to the pharmicist, for example, and they called me by my name, FROM MEMORY, and we had a nice conversation. But I still may be described as a loner. Being a loner alone means NOTHING.

MIDDLE AGE MALE? GIVE ME A BREAK! MOST middle age males don't hurt ANYONE, and MANY others DO!

Has NAILS? HEY, I probably STILL have a box of nails, screws, etc.... SO WHAT? BTW I got them for woodwork.

Has FERTILIZER? I bet MANY do.

Even the idea of living with ones mother. Some may have thought I did, especially after she moved in here WITHOUT my permission. Of course one nice thing about my current job is that most know I COULDN'T. Apparently, with the current economy, MANY "live at home".

And Jewell did NOT fit "THE PROFILE". "THE" profile was that it was a middle eastern muslim. They CHANGED the profile, and picked jewell because he was available.

For the latest shooter, they also said the COST was a giveaway. BZZZT! WRONG! The last time I bought a gun, the little one I got cost over $900! That was perhaps 14 years ago. The fact that the US government was about to make it illegal didn't help. EVERYONE wanted to buy such guns while they were legal, and prices were jacked up.

Mentally unstable and/or incompetent people SHOULDN'T have guns. PHYSICALLY agressive people SHOULDN'T have guns. In short, people likely to use guns out of simple anger, or at random, shouldn't have them. And that really IS the reason why criminals can't have them. They have, by their acts, PROVEN that they are unstable or physically agressive.

If my mother had a gun, with alzheimers, I would have done anything to take it from her. MY gun is hidden and locked where nobody is likely to ever find it. The ammo is hidden elsewhere. So even though she came here, she didn't even THINK to look. If she DID get a gun and ammo, she may have shot me on accident or intentionally. She became psychotic and paranoid because of alzheimers.

Steve

On Friday, "Dark Knight Rises" director Christopher Nolan called the attack "unbearably savage," while the film's studio Warner Brothers said they were "deeply saddened to learn about this shocking incident. We extend our sincere sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims at this tragic time."

Dark Knight Stars Christian Bale and Anne Hathaway have also expressed their sincere condolences and deepest sympathy...as they are connected to the film...

OK, we all know it is very tragic - we all send condolences to the families and loved ones...but then there is this type of thing - do we then really need this list of ad nauseum?

Do we really need to know how 'Snooki' feels? Isn't it this the kind of twisted 'celebrity' that may have gotten us here in the first place? Am I to take solace in the fact that Ashley Tisdale or Brooklyn Decker feels sad? Or John Stamos was absolutely shocked to hear the news when he woke up today, or William Shatner sends his best...?
There is a time when press agents just need to take the day off...this might be one of them.

Let's not forget that just recently in Norway - a country with strict gun laws - there was a shooting spree there that killed more people than the United States' 3 largest shooting sprees combined. People that are bent on committing illegal acts are not going to be deterred by more legalities.

Our problem is that we are trying to fix a problem that we haven't properly even diagnosed yet. We are treating the symptoms and expecting the root of the problem to magically go away.

When someone drinks and then kills someone driving, we don't say "jeeez if we only had less cars on the road this probably wouldn't have happened." While that statement is probably true - everyone knows it's a foolish statement because it doesn't get at the root of the problem.

Wow - According to ABC news, he was going to school on a college scholarship grant which gave him a 26K /yr stipend - so very conceivably...he purchased all his tools of destruction with grant funds...

Another interesting fact is that the witnesses at first reported that there was an accomplice. Only after the "official" word was released did it turn into a sole perp.

The claim that banning guns will result in less gun crime is as ridiculous and intellectually lazy as claiming that introducing the death penalty will deter people from killing/murdering others.

This tragedy is another 'gun free zone' fail, just like the Columbine and V-tech tragedies.

-Chris

That's a very sad incident, many innocent people got killed while enjoying a movie.

Isn't it obvious? We need to get rid of Lil' Wayne...

James Holmes' Mother Disputes ABC Report About Her Reaction To Colorado Killings [UPDATED] -
Wants to clarify - Says statement was taken out of context -

James Holmes' Mother Disputes ABC Report About Her Reaction To Colorado Killings [UPDATED]

I hate that tag "illuminati". It doesn't matter what happens - as soon as the tag "illuminati" is used, people just stop thinking about it because they start seeing it as a whacked conspiracy theory.

We need to start judging incidents on their own and if it looks like collaboration, go after the collaborators instead of coping out on "illuminati".

This incident has numerous elements of a false flag. The timing is incredible, as is the medias endless drilling of the horror into people's minds.

Because the first witnesses reporting that there was more than one person involved - that to me is indicative that is the truth. Everything said later is just spin. Media and Political. You want the real truth of matters - you get to witnesses before the authorities do and listen to what they say instead of the "official" release.

The news is lying, Steve.

MMM - I was talking about events as they play out. The first reports will be the most honest. Watch the change of what is reported as the timeline goes on. As far as "why" a shooter shoots - yeah, that takes more intensive understanding, but as far as WHAT actually transpired - the first reports before the official spin is released are more accurate. After that it's all PR.

This is sad indeed. Thanks for the post.

Maybe he is just a terrorist. Maybe he's a victim of mind control himself - just another false flag.

The fact that gun sales spiked afterwards is a very good thing though. If he was a false flag, the perps got exactly the opposite reaction that they were hoping for. If he was a sole nut job or terrorist - there is a good showing that people are sick of being gunned down by criminals and are planning to be armed so the next time this kind of thing happens they will be able to stop the perp in his tracks. Just think how many lives would have been saved if someone in that theatre had a permit for concealed weapon and had their gun with them that day.

EXCLUSIVE: Movie massacre suspect sent chilling notebook to psychiatrist before attack | Fox News

(*nothing has been confirmed yet, so take this with a grain of Salk.)

OK, stick figures a week earlier doesn't fit. And he thought MUSIC would distract? MAYBE if a resdent entered, was killed, and another could report it. MAYBE!

Steve

For those of you wondering about the effectiveness of conceal and carry.... I've happened upon this in of all places The Huffington Post - and again of all places - in Aurora Colorado. This article is from April 24 earlier this year

Suspect In Aurora, Colo. Church Shooting Identified, Had Been In Prison

Man goes into a Church and kills one woman, before an off duty officer w/ a concealed weapon kills him. - I'll bet the media never brings up this story.

I appreciate the points and the discourse fellas, but I think I may have been taken a bit out of context. When I referred to a "wild-west philosophy", perhaps I should have added the word 'movie', because that is what I was referring to - I am fully aware the actual wild west was not anywhere near as it is often depicted on the silver screen...I have always been very interested in the history of the west, and read all I can on this period.

I refer to the American idea of the protagonist who settles his scores with a bullet - the "High Noon" where it is the White hat against the Black hat of the world, and he has had enough. "A man's got to do what a man's got to do". It has been honed for over a century, and it still lives in the American Bravado, whether some like to admit it or not. The cowboy has now become modern gangster, but the same ideas still apply...where kids once may have had posters of a Western Hero, now posters of Al Pacino as 'Scarface' hang on the wall, or something similar. The anti-hero is now the hero.

As I said before, the debate is a 2 edged sword, and it is not an easy one. Maybe we should try to evaluate how the Swiss have managed to keep things under control with their relatively small population, but large gun ownership - they seem to have a system that works for them.

Or...maybe we just need to eat more chocolate, and chill out. (yipikiyo)

The type of weapon is irrelevent. It wouldn't matter if we were allowed to carry consealed weapons, or bazookas.

You are either the type of person who kills people, or you are not. There is no grey area. its black or white, on or off, in or out...however you want to phrase it.

They banned guns on airplanes, but it didn't stop hyjackings from happening did it....where there is a will there is a way...boxcutter knives proves pretty effective no?.

Your either the type of guy thats going to hijack a plane or you are not.

It is illegal to walk up to people and punch them in the head for fun...but it hasn't stopped it from existing. Every one of us has fists...are people all over the street every day punching other in the head for fun? ...no, because only certain people are the type that would punch people in the head for fun, and most of us aren't.

Even if they somehow WERE able to keep guns from the criminals....they'd just rob your house with baseball bats.

Why do bullies only pick on those smaller or wealer than them? ...because they can't or wont fight back...AND... they think they can get away with it.

Of all crime that is committed...nearly all of it is done by people who think they can get away with it. The rest of it is done by the mental wackos...and your never going to do anything to deter them. But you CAN EFFECT the deterance of the rest of crime by dramatically increasing the probability that the purp will be caught, stopped or injured/killed.

The answer to our collective safety is MORE PEOPLE NEED TO CARRY GUNS AND HAVE THEM IN THEIR HOME...and the more baddass the gun is...the better.

It wont matter if more bad guys will then have guns, thats an idiotic argument...because the GOOD GUYS with guns will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS outnumber the bad guys...and the more they feel outnumbered with guns the LESS likely they will use their own gun for a crime against another person...and thus less likely to even committ that crime anyway.

I'm not talking about Columbines or Theatre incidents...those are wacko jobs...nuthin we can do to keep those from happening...we can only lessen the damage by being armed at the scene...I'm talking about all the other weapon related crime against citizens..we CAN make a serious dent in getting that stuff to go away.

I wish it were that easy - it's not always black and white, as people snap everyday for one reason or another...

What is the first thing the 'neighbor' has to say in many of these instances? "Gosh, he was such a quiet guy...this really comes as a surprise".

Unfortunately, it's not as easy as the movie "Minority Report" where "PreCrime" is a specialized police department that apprehends criminals based on foreknowledge... if only it could be that simple.

I didn't say the Second Amendment was there because there was a shortage of 'established police forces'...The second amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791 - Prior to established police forces...

In 1626, the New York City Sheriff's Office was founded. In 1635, the Town of Boston started its first "Night Watch". The first local modern police department established in the United States was the Boston Police Department in 1838.

Again, maybe I'm being argumentative, but I don't see a problem with the way the Second Amendment is worded. I think it's pretty plain: "...shall not be infringed."

It places no conditions on the statement, like, "...shall not be infringed unless this or that...."

The people who argue ambiguity in the wording seem to be those who think the Constitution should be a "living document", in other words, it doesn't really mean what it says.

We have strayed a long way away from a federal government whose power was limited by law:

oh grief I am not even reading this but I'll guess sthe usual "I know it all my opinions are facts." crowd are out in force on this one. Telling everyone how it is.

Go on...it was really a governemt conspiracy..... R.O.F.L.

you know the ones....4 of them. (^^one here ^^)

Recently ANOTHER person, I believe it was in florida, said HE was the joker, and killed people with a gun. To me, this looks SUSPICIOUS!!!!!!! It looks more like a groups plan than random acts. A cursory look for THAT story led immediately to one that looks DIFFERENT, but VERY similar!

'Joker' sent to mental hospital, had threatened shooting rampage - latimes.com

Please note that this was reported TODAY, and happened in maryland! That is FAR from colorado!

Steve

"Americans fataly shot" means NOTHING! How many were shot by some stupid "game" that may have been killed another way? How many were shot because they were stealing or trespassing or threatening?

Unless they were innocents killed intentionally, it really isn't meaningful. Of course MOST doing that are FELONS and it is illegal for a felon to even OWN or hold a gun! Crimina;s generally DON'T obey the law.

Steve

Damn,I missed all the excitement,do I need to get in on this?