115 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
115 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

The Dark Knight & Gun Control

by Wade32
90 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
By now you have probably already heard about the tragedy shooting at the theater. This guy had an assault rifle!

What do you think about gun control? How can we keep crazies like this from getting their hands on guns like these?

I am for the right to bear arms. I understand that hunters like to hunt, and people need pistols to protect themselves, but I don't understand why it is so easy to get guns like this.

If they banned assault rifles like this would it keep the violence down? Probably not, but it would probably mean a whole lot less deaths in another situation like this.

What do you think about gun control?
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Like I have always said, it is easy! Just go back in time, maybe 2 thousand years or so, and kill that chinese guy that created gun powder. Maybe you could then go back a thousand years or so, and killl the guy that developed the gun, that may have used something else. Maybe go back a few hundred years and kill the french guy, whose name I forget, that created the bullet shape that better used rifling.

    Working in the present would never work. The cat is out of the bag! The genie is out of the bottle! etc....

    Gun control proponents would tell you anaheim, CA and illinois are safe, and Kennesaw, Georgia is a DISASTER area. As you might know, it is the opposite. And what is so different about simi valley, CA compared to Anaheim, CA. DON'T say it is cops! There are more cops in LA county than Simi valley. The difference? Simi valley has more OFF DUTY cops. Do you suppose the badges are magic? If so, how come they fail when those SAME cops go to LA County?

    I could go on, but this should be enough for people to ponder.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6698325].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dallas playboy
    take away assault weapons and the nut cases will start using frag granades.
    take away granades and nut cases will use 12 gauge shotguns with 100 rounds,
    STREET SWEEPERS, TAKE AWAY STREET SWEEPERS, AND ...

    THE WARNING SIGNS ARE IGNORED, AND RATIONALIZED, BY THEIR FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES, BEFORE THE EVENT. EARLY PSYCHOLOGICAL INTERVENTION CAN REDUCE THESE
    EXPLOSIVE EVENTS, AND SAME INNOCENT LIVES.

    COPS CAN'T PREVENT THESE EVENTS FROM HAPPENING, BUT MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS CAN
    IF GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6699600].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KingYoungPimpin
    Here is another incident that will make people want more control on who has guns. It's inevitable new laws will be passed because this senseless violence all over the USA and world.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6700063].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    Take the guns away and...

    1. The nutballs will find other ways to create mass murder, like the guy in Brazil who drove his care into a bicycle race. Or the guy who drove into a crowd.

    2. When it becomes illegal to own guns, those who already break the law, and don't care about breaking the law, will still have guns, while the honest people won't.

    Crazies will alway resort to other means.

    A friend of ours who is a psychiatrist tells us there are always signs before a nut takes this kind of action. Unfotunately it isn't recognized by people around the crazy person, or it gets ignored.

    Holmes sent a notebook to a psychiatrist at the University, but it sat in the mailroom for a week.

    :-Don
    Signature

    Studies prove happier people have massively more success. It has worked for me. Use this one trick too... Click Here

    Total Competition Stomper - Simply the most powerful tactic your IM or Offline business will ever use... See it here!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6700478].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The fact s that murder has been documented going back as far as about 10,000 years. GENOCIDE has been documented as happening, or at least legislated to happen under the authority of people that COULD make it happen, over about 3000 years ago. OK, OK, it is thought to have only happened sometime between 2498 and 2477 years ago. STILL, that is a LONG time ago.

    HECK, MARATHONS started to celebrate the run from the battle of marathon that is credited with saving GREECE!

    I COULD start listing simple things you could do NOW that are not restricted in ANY way that could cause disasters worse than the theater shooting with less effort, but will hold back for several reasons. Rest assured, it would make him look like he was using a pea shooter or a knife. Those that are alive should be THANKFUL he used a gun.

    WWI had many battles that were the local equivalent of the atom bomb in WWII. It's no wonder that THEY were outlawed. If not for publicity, lack of control, and the chance of retaliation, they probably would have used them. SYRIA recently threatened to if attacked or limited by any external force!

    BBC News - Syria 'will not use' chemical weapons on its own people

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6700646].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KimberlySonic
    We don't need gun control we need some bullet control. Then you won't be able to buy 6000 rounds just like that.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6701278].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I heard having a massive armed private citizenry is what prevents the government elite from imposing a dictatorship, and that was the founding fathers intent.
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6701390].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I heard having a massive armed private citizenry is what prevents the government elite from imposing a dictatorship, and that was the founding fathers intent.
      That might have been true early on; now it would be a prime example of bringing a knife to a gunfight.
      Signature

      The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

      Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6702133].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Originally Posted by Wade32 View Post

    By now you have probably already heard about the tragedy shooting at the theater. This guy had an assault rifle!
    Really?

    What do you think about gun control?
    It is about as effective at stopping crime as the death penalty.

    How can we keep crazies like this from getting their hands on guns like these?
    You can't.

    I am for the right to bear arms. I understand that hunters like to hunt, and people need pistols to protect themselves, but I don't understand why it is so easy to get guns like this.
    You do know that people have to undergo fairly extensive background checks before they can legally purchase a weapon in the US?

    If they banned assault rifles like this would it keep the violence down? Probably not, but it would probably mean a whole lot less deaths in another situation like this.
    Based on what evidence? Do you think the death penalty deters people from deliberately murdering others?

    What do you think about gun control?
    You asked this earlier.

    -Chris
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6701495].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    We have a large and populous country that allows gun ownership and things are going to happen.


    The 2nd amendment is the 2nd amendment and that's all there is to it...



    ... but...


    ... there must be some common sense actions that are consistent with the "2nd A" that we can take as an nation to curtail the ease in which criminals and the mentally disturbed can obtain guns.


    Gun ownership is here to stay and there's nothing anyone can do about it...


    ... and IMHO...

    ...anti-gov groups with guns must be closely watched and not allowed to become a problem.


    Hail the 2nd A!

    TL
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6703050].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      So you want to violate the 4th Amendment to weaken the 2nd Amendment.

      Good thinking.

      Not sure what on earth you're talking about but I stand by my point about monitoring armed and organized groups like the so-called Militia movement we have today and that's not going to change.


      To not closely monitor folks like the MM would be stinking thinking.



      TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6705419].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        So you're unfamiliar with the 4th Amendment.

        I see. You can google it.


        That would be your interpretation.


        Are you saying those armed groups should not be closely monitored?


        ( and you know who I'm talking about )




        -TL
        Signature

        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6705808].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          The idea of the government "monitoring' people for some imagined future action sickens me.


          If the government won't follow the law, we're all screwed.

          We have a new health care law upheld by the SCOTUS that I believe covers lots of mental health issues also - so perhaps you can be healed.


          And you may not want to acknowledge it but perhaps there is plenty of "probable cause" for monitoring involved with some or most of these groups.


          Don't bother pretending these groups are akin to a bunch of boy scouts holding a jamboree.



          TL
          Signature

          "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6705864].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Not sure what on earth you're talking about but I stand by my point about monitoring armed and organized groups like the so-called Militia movement we have today and that's not going to change.
            To not closely monitor folks like the MM would be stinking thinking.
            TL
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            That would be your interpretation.
            Are you saying those armed groups should not be closely monitored?
            ( and you know who I'm talking about )Who ARE you talking about?
            -TL
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            We have a new health care law upheld by the SCOTUS that I believe covers lots of mental health issues also - so perhaps you can be healed.
            And you may not want to acknowledge it but perhaps there is plenty of "probable cause" for monitoring involved with some or most of these groups.
            Don't bother pretending these groups are akin to a bunch of boy scouts holding a jamboree.
            TL
            What good would pretending they're Boy Scouts do? The Boy Scouts are being watched because of their stance on homosexuality.

            The unfortunate truth is that where sheep gather, wolves are not far away. When the sheepherder or the sheep dog is to far away to offer timely protection, some sheep are inevitably lost. The question in my mind is why so many of us believe we are sheep?

            Mr. TL, I think you need to brush up on the legal meaning of 'probable cause'. Suspicion of undesired or unapproved activity doesn't pass the test.

            I don't know, maybe you want it to, eh? Not that it matters to a government that doesn't follow the law. Still, at least the semblance of following the law may help some people sleep at night.

            US Senator Frank Church of Idaho saw this coming 40+ years ago. Brad Thor, in his latest book Black List, printed in the preface a transcript of an interview that Senator Church gave on Meet the Press on August 17, 1975:

            [America's intelligence gathering] capability at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left. Such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn't matter. There would be no place to hide.

            If this government ever became a tyrant, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know Such is the capability of this technology.

            I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that [the NSA] and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.
            To be perfectly frank, I am more - MUCH MORE - concerned with the propensity of our own government to do massive wrong than I am with the possibility of some perceived whacko to perpetrate, tragic though it is, a relatively minor crime.

            The shepherds are constantly on the offensive to convince the sheep that they should be deprived of any means to defend themselves against the wolves, that the few rams in the herd with sharp horns should be castrated because defending their own is not what civilized sheep should do. The sheepdog, controlled by the herder, is all that the sheep should need.

            Baaaaaaaaaah...
            Signature

            The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

            Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6706521].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

              What good would pretending they're Boy Scouts do? The Boy Scouts are being watched because of their stance on homosexuality.

              The unfortunate truth is that where sheep gather, wolves are not far away. When the sheepherder or the sheep dog is to far away to offer timely protection, some sheep are inevitably lost. The question in my mind is why so many of us believe we are sheep?

              Mr. TL, I think you need to brush up on the legal meaning of 'probable cause'. Suspicion of undesired or unapproved activity doesn't pass the test.

              I don't know, maybe you want it to, eh? Not that it matters to a government that doesn't follow the law. Still, at least the semblance of following the law may help some people sleep at night.

              US Senator Frank Church of Idaho saw this coming 40+ years ago. Brad Thor, in his latest book Black List, printed in the preface a transcript of an interview that Senator Church gave on Meet the Press on August 17, 1975:



              To be perfectly frank, I am more - MUCH MORE - concerned with the propensity of our own government to do massive wrong than I am with the possibility of some perceived whacko to perpetrate, tragic though it is, a relatively minor crime.

              The shepherds are constantly on the offensive to convince the sheep that they should be deprived of any means to defend themselves against the wolves, that the few rams in the herd with sharp horns should be castrated because defending their own is not what civilized sheep should do. The sheepdog, controlled by the herder, is all that the sheep should need.

              Baaaaaaaaaah...

              I know what probable cause is and I'm much more concerned about those groups with guns than I am about the federal gov - and that's not going to change.


              Again, I'm not talking about a bunch of boy scouts.


              TL
              Signature

              "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6706607].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Regarding how many folks believe that there can not be any restrictions on the second amendment, perhaps you should listen to what the most conservative of all the justices on the SCOTUS says about this:

                Scalia said that the Heller decision left the door open for the Supreme Court to address in a future case what limitations on Second Amendment rights are “permissible.”

                Scalia acknowledged that there are limitations on those rights, but the court would have to decide what they are. He emphasized the “bear arms” point to say that while owning a gun is perfectly legal, owning a cannon is a different story. However, he noted that there are certainly handheld weapons which can do a fair amount of harm, and said when such a case comes before the court, he would have to make a legal call based on what were understood limitations at the time of the Founders.
                Justice Antonin Scalia On Fox: ‘There Are Some Limitations’ On Second Amendment Rights | Mediaite

                If you are to right of Scalia on this issue it's about time you rethink your position imo. haha

                I tell ya what, this statement/interview by Scalia would immediately remove him from any possibility to get elected as a GOP candidate because of the power of the NRA.
                Signature
                Over 50 Dating
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6706902].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  Regarding how many folks believe that there can not be any restrictions on the second amendment, perhaps you should listen to what the most conservative of all the justices on the SCOTUS says about this:



                  Justice Antonin Scalia On Fox: 'There Are Some Limitations' On Second Amendment Rights | Mediaite

                  If you are to right of Scalia on this issue it's about time you rethink your position imo. haha

                  I tell ya what, this statement/interview by Scalia would immediately remove him from any possibility to get elected as a GOP candidate because of the power of the NRA.
                  Given that Scalia wrote the majority opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, you might want to curb your enthusiasm a little bit. Everyone acknowledges that there are necessary limits to the types of arms that get carried around in public. He didn't say anything in that interview that he hasn't already said - but the MSM would have you believe differently.

                  911 - when seconds count, the police are minutes away.
                  Signature

                  The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

                  Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6706964].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    Ooops. There you go Steve. You just eliminated yourself as a qualified GOP candidate anywhere in the US because of that post which is public and on record now! You lefty pinko gun control advocate you!

                    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                    Everyone acknowledges that there are necessary limits to the types of arms that get carried around in public.
                    Signature
                    Over 50 Dating
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707288].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                      Ooops. There you go Steve. You just eliminated yourself as a qualified GOP candidate anywhere in the US because of that post which is public and on record now! You lefty pinko gun control advocate you!
                      Damn. There go my dreams of being one of the ruling elites. I guess I'll just have to be content with mingling with the regular folk.
                      Signature

                      The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

                      Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707436].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

            Probable cause is not synonymous with "I just don't like those guys. They got guns."

            I know it is insane to insist that the government actually follow the law because it gives the faint-hearted a case of the fantods. After,all you just never know what people are up to and it's damned well the government's role to find out.

            Here's an excellent example of what happens when the government starts monitoring people:

            Truck owner wants DEA to pay up after botched sting - Houston Chronicle.

            It was only a few months ago that our johnny-on-the-spot G-men arrested some militia members for conspiring to kill local police officers. After some grandstanding for the press and a few million in court costs, we found out that it was pure fantasy on the part of our erstwhile public servants.

            I am appalled that people are actually dumb enough to pay the government to pry into people's lives to make them feel safe from imagined threats.

            What next, the boogie man police to let our children sleep better?
            .


            They probably stumbled upon one of the few MM groups that's not up to no good - if they could.


            I'm appalled that some people think other people are dumb enough to buy the...


            ... "they're loaded with guns, made seditious type statements but they haven't done anything yet so they're harmless and don't need to be monitored" BS.


            TL
            Signature

            "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6708655].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              They probably stumbled upon one of the few MM groups that's not up to no good - if they could.


              I'm appalled that some people think other people are dumb enough to buy the...


              ... "they're loaded with guns, made seditious type statements but they haven't done anything yet so they're harmless and don't need to be monitored" BS.


              TL
              Why are you SO pro government and sometimes, perhaps even with LITERALLY the SAME breath, you accuse them of intentionally doing you and others so much wrong. Don't you see the problem with that? And the Militia groups could not hold a CANDLE to what many rappers and comedians have said. REMEMBER, they say such things to FANS and FAN is short for FANATIC! OH, the IRONY!

              Steve
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6709440].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                Why are you SO pro government and sometimes, perhaps even with LITERALLY the SAME breath, you accuse them of intentionally doing you and others so much wrong. Don't you see the problem with that?


                And the Militia groups could not hold a CANDLE to what many rappers and comedians have said. REMEMBER, they say such things to FANS and FAN is short for FANATIC! OH, the IRONY!

                Steve
                What irony?


                Who ever said the fed gov was perfect??


                Not I, so stop acting.


                There are a couple of major diffs between rappers, comedians and the MM Groups.



                Get ready for it....



















                - The MM Groups have lots of guns and are highly organized.
                Signature

                "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6709994].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

              Other civilized countries seem to manage OK without arming its citizens. With fewer guns maybe the "nutters" won't have guns?

              Statistically how many times do "nutters" break in? I think there is probably a greater probability of being struck by lightening...more than once.

              Without kids having access to guns there would be fewer High School massacres?

              What about tazers and pepper spray for personal protection?
              So when a couple of armed thugs break into your house with evil intentions what are you going to do, ask them to wait a minute while you call the cops? By the way, stun guns and tasers aren't legal in every state, and pepper spray doesn't work on everyone, especially those wigged out on drugs like crank.

              Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

              Eh? You think a dictatorship of the kind you refer to is possible in the US? Really? You are serious?
              If you think it isn't possible, you're just the kind of person that would never see it coming until it was too late.
              Signature

              Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6713353].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post


                If you think it isn't possible, you're just the kind of person that would never see it coming until it was too late.
                Very misguided assumption. LMAO.
                Signature
                "...If at first you don't succeed; call it Version 1.0"
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6716191].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author keyideas
    Why we need gun control, why not we will with calm & peace.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6703261].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Take the guns away and...

      1. The nutballs will find other ways to create mass murder, like the guy in Brazil who drove his care into a bicycle race. Or the guy who drove into a crowd.

      2. When it becomes illegal to own guns, those who already break the law, and don't care about breaking the law, will still have guns, while the honest people won't.

      Crazies will alway resort to other means.

      A friend of ours who is a psychiatrist tells us there are always signs before a nut takes this kind of action. Unfotunately it isn't recognized by people around the crazy person, or it gets ignored.
      Hmmmm, glad l live in AU, the government banned guns a while ago, and eventhough criminals can still buy guns, it has dramatically reduced the number of nutters that can go on a rampage!

      Although l read in a paper today about someone who killed his parents, kids and family pets with a 40cm knife. Police said he gave up his knife without, Resistance.

      But how he slaughtered so many people in the same house remains a mystery? Shock or disbelief maybe.

      But as said before, a nutter with a large knife in a shopping center, can cause far less damage than one with a machine gun and tons of bullets.

      Shane
      Signature
      Archimedes-The Truth Seekers Forum..
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6703502].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Hmmmm, glad l live in AU, the government banned guns a while ago, and eventhough criminals can still buy guns, it has dramatically reduced the number of nutters that can go on a rampage!

        Although l read in a paper today about someone who killed his parents, kids and family pets with a 40cm knife. Police said he gave up his knife without, Resistance.

        But how he slaughtered so many people in the same house remains a mystery? Shock or disbelief maybe.

        But as said before, a nutter with a large knife in a shopping center, can cause far less damage than one with a machine gun and tons of bullets.

        Shane
        And a little toy chihuahua can do even MORE with a little bomb! What's your point?

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6704459].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Hmmmm, glad l live in AU, the government banned guns a while ago, and eventhough criminals can still buy guns, it has dramatically reduced the number of nutters that can go on a rampage!
        What a load of BS.

        The Australian government has not banned guns at all, all that has happened in the past is that the Howard government initiated a couple of gun buy back schemes to reduce the number of illegal weapons in the country by providing a legally risk free way to hand the weapons in voluntarily.

        You can purchase certain types of pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns provided you can satisfy all legal requirements to procure one.

        As it happens, Australia has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world;

        Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        -Chris
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707447].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    Society is getting stuck on these occasional / rare wackos that come along...but we're focusing on the small picture.

    We see "he killed 12 and injured 58 more" OH MY GOD !!

    ...as if those are huge numbers or something.

    What about the *2191 instances weekly where crime against another human being is Thwarted or defended with a firearm. *(do your own f'ing research, there's tons of it out there)

    Just so you understand...thats 2000 crimes against another human being that got rolling before the purp ever knew he was walking into gun carrying victim.

    So...you take away the guns from those 2000 victims per week, and you've just dramatically increased the death/injury toll in crimes aganist other human beings.

    now, why the hell would you want to go and do that?

    Yeah...once in a while we have to endure a wacko and we might lose a handful or couple dozen good folks....nothing we can do to stop them.

    But its a numbers game...and our armed citizens are keeping those numbers alot lower than they could be.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6704850].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Let's not forget that 9/11 started with BOX CUTTERS! They have done NOTHING to really stop it from happening again. One proposed solution was giving pilots GUNS. Another that was actually done, is having "flight marshals" fly with guns!

    TSA: Federal Air Marshal Shortage?

    And YOU thought they were ALL gun free.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6705075].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I would be extremely frightened right now if we weren't armed. If someone else had been armed in that theater the shooters would not have gotten so far. -- And I say shooters, plural, because the first witnesses, which included police, said there was more than one. Why is it suddenly just the one? That's one of the reasons we might not want to give up our guns. Cities with strong gun control laws in the US are experiencing more gun crime than elsewhere. Media reports criminals shooting - but not the good guys with guns who STOP a crazy from taking out innocent people. Those are some of the reasons we NEED our guns. When the gov and media want them gone so bad that they distort truths to take them, something is wrong enough that we need to hold on to them very tightly.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6705184].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If someone else had been armed in that theater the shooters would not have gotten so far.
      If a gunfight had erupted in a smoke filled, dimly lit theatre, with lots of people running around in panic, the death toll could've been MUCH higher.
      Signature
      Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
      So that blind people can hate them as well.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6706044].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW I listened to a show and they said the gun owners aren't trained. BZZZT! For purposes of that discussion, the type of permit they were talking about, there IS training.

    The OTHER permit, that people WERE talking about, that doesn't require training does NOT allow use, or useful possession, of weapons outside of very restricted circumstances. If someone, like YKW, had such a permit, with ONE bullet and a gun, he could be locked up, or at least have it confiscated and get a healthy fine. I have such a permit and if I want to carry the bullets and the gun, at least in california, I better have a VERY good, immediately verifyable excuse, like I was WALKING them to the gun range only a few yards away, or my home. If I got out of my car with them, and the police officer saw me, he would probably start RIGHT THEN to put handcuffs on me. The bullets and gun are NOT to be in the cab. It basically allows you to have the gun, use it at home or maybe the business YOU own, target practice, etc... To do otherwise is illegal.

    The permits, like CC, require training and a test. They ALSO likely require ANOTHER background check and waiting period. And HEY, as I understand it, THAT is like what armed security guards get.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6705278].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Originally Posted by Wade32 View Post

    I understand that hunters like to hunt, and people need pistols to protect themselves,
    Ah, us humans. Running rampant killing everything with the very tools we claim to posses only for the purpose of protection. Poor us another drink! The irony as always is so utterly divine. We do like to shoot ourselves in the foot - sometimes quite literally!

    Gun control is an oxymoron. You can't control guns for the sole fact that people can't control themselves.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6705866].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Well for what it's worth, without discussing all the intricacies involved, I believe the problem lies with the gov and the word control within the phrase "gun control".

      I think the underlying push for gun control is that they'd much rather control the people rather than merely controlling gun usage.

      So go ahead and call me a cynic, I've been called worse. :p

      Terra
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6705891].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Well for what it's worth, without discussing all the intricacies involved, I believe the problem lies with the gov and the word control within the phrase "gun control".

        I think the underlying push for gun control is that they'd much rather control the people rather than merely controlling gun usage.
        ...
        Terra
        I think you hit the head right on the nail...
        Signature

        The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

        Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6706253].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

          I think you hit the head right on the nail...
          Well, that explains me bloody headache then! :p

          Terra
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6706312].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
      Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

      Ah, us humans. Running rampant killing everything with the very tools we claim to posses only for the purpose of protection. Poor us another drink! The irony as always is so utterly divine. We do like to shoot ourselves in the foot - sometimes quite literally!

      Gun control is an oxymoron. You can't control guns for the sole fact that people can't control themselves.
      Well put, my friend. I highly doubt you'll find anyone here who thinks you have it in YOU to control a gun, so obviously no one else can, and therefore everyone else should do without.

      Well what do ya know, it's tea time

      There was a time when people thought the Magna Carta, the Constitution, and the idea of the Republic - where the law reigned supreme - were noble ideas. But alas, those days are gone forever.

      Cheerio. Let's go read some Tennyson.
      Signature

      I

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707263].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    If a gunfight had erupted in a smoke filled, dimly lit theatre, with lots of people running around in panic, the death toll could've been MUCH higher.
    It also - more likely - could've been MUCH LOWER.
    Signature

    The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

    Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6706240].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
    Banned
    People like this will always get their hands on weapons. Gun control is just that, more control by the government. They will ALWAYS turn tragedies into ways to limit freedom.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707000].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I have OFTEN said, and I think I said here, that the PERFECT government would be a DICTATORSHIP by an altruistic leader. But WHO could be such a leader? How could it be contained and maintained? There HAVE been good kings in the past, but they generally devolve. People die, get overthrown, etc...

    But figure it out! If you have PERFECTION anything else delays it and limits it. as we stand now, the people are SO imperfect that it is best that the people are at a STANDSTILL within it! So the LAST thing a just person would want is a dictator.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707114].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      When it comes to dumb excuses - it's hard to beat the "I need an AK-47 for deer hunting". If that's the only way you can hunt, you aren't a hunter.

      I'm not for banning guns - but don't think any normal person needs a full automatic weapon or a semi-automatic for that matter.

      On the practical side -

      I have a gun
      I know how to use it
      You can't have my gun - and neither can the govt

      so there:p
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707172].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        Gun Control.

        What does that really mean and what should it mean?

        Do you mean when a military force fraudulently or illegally invade a country, usually killing mostly citizens defending themselves from an invading force stopping them from work, earning money, stopping water supplies, electricity, fuel, housing and food supplies, demanding Marshall Law while they sit and watch their family starve and die of wounds and disease?

        Do you mean cops who shoot and kill someone without ANY just cause, provocation or Probable Cause?

        Do you mean criminals who can get access to guns no matter what the law is?

        Do you mean selling boatloads of guns and weapons to countries around the world, no matter if they are friend or enemy, as they are doing RIGHT THIS MINUTE?

        Do you mean the warehouse of delivered Machetes in Rwanda that was seized by interceding Military attempting to stop the pre-massacre, and the Commanding officer was told to take his troops and abandon the warehouse, giving full access to the weapons that resulted in slaughter?

        Gun Control?

        Control by who?

        By what? For what?

        You mean gun control is going to bring the Dollar back, backed by real, physical assets?

        You mean the "lack" of control we had over fraudulent elections supported by The Supreme Court and the other sham investigators?

        You mean like the Gun industry selling guns to Mexico, making boatloads of cash, so that slaughter can continue?

        You are going to let a hack, a paid pawn, a political whore, ( my apologies to real whores, they have more honor), a corporate sellout, a corporate stooge, a cash-out flunkie to define the circumference of the discussion???

        The term "gun control" in and of itself is a trap all by itself.

        Is video game violence and movie violence what cause the slaughter of people all over the world?

        Where the Revolutionaries in The Revolutionary War "TERRORIST" against The British Empire?

        Now anyone can be classified a terrorist.

        The Constitution is essentially GONE, as will the Dollar will be, only supported by confidence.

        Gun Control is simply a distraction from the sedition by your "selected" un-elected whores.

        The Patriot Act is the LAW of the land.

        The National Defense Authorization act is now the LAW of the land.

        The National Defense Resources Preparedness Executive Order is now the LAW of the land.

        Bill of Rights, gone.

        So when does a populous KNOW for a moral CERTAINTY that they been had.....,
        ......... as they were boarding the train, or the welcome party they received as they were getting off?

        Ya think they believed what was happening? That it was real??

        For sure, that is EXACTLY what it is going to take, most arguments pretty much state that before they believe anything.

        What were we gossiping about again????

        Boy, this divide and conquer, redirect, divert and distract stuff really works like a charm.

        Now let's talk about how the violence in Batman gave North Korea their Nuclear Weapons.


        The 13th Warrior
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707342].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Nice rant, 13th. On the mark.

    Want something else to tank over? I've seen people now getting all tweeked out because he bought his weapons with grant money - paid for by the tax payer. So I guess what that means is that we have to stop giving anyone grants because they might buy a weapon with it.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6707499].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, some of the rappers and comedians(I am NOT talking about guys like seinfeld and dangerfield) ARE dangerous, and HAVE hurt people. Some of the millitias haven't.

    Who is acting? You are saying you want US to be defenseless, and have gangs, that may have rappers and comedians in their number, and the GOVERNMENT, have all the guns.

    BTW the "MM" groups have ALWAYS had guns, and were ALWAYS organized. INTERESTING that you hear SO little about them.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6710038].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Yeah, some of the rappers and comedians(I am NOT talking about guys like seinfeld and dangerfield) ARE dangerous, and HAVE hurt people. Some of the millitias haven't.

      Who is acting? You are saying you want US to be defenseless, and have gangs, that may have rappers and comedians in their number, and the GOVERNMENT, have all the guns.

      BTW the "MM" groups have ALWAYS had guns, and were ALWAYS organized. INTERESTING that you hear SO little about them.

      Steve

      Since you support someone like GB, I'm not going to bother going round and round with you on the merits of monitoring the MM Groups.

      I'm glad they're being closely monitored so that when they dare to make their delusional move, the proper authorities will be there to crush them and hopefully with the minimal amount of damage to the general population.


      - TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6710408].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Since you support someone like GB, I'm not going to bother going round and round with you on the merits of monitoring the MM Groups.

        I'm glad they're being closely monitored so that when they dare to make their delusional move, the proper authorities will be there to crush them and hopefully with the minimal amount of damage to the general population.


        - TL
        Yeah, I could say the same about you and BO. I could list "songs" and comedy routines, etc... And illustrate my point. Alas, you wouldn't care, so there is no point anyway. But I wasn't going to go round and round.

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6710468].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
    In countries where you have an effective law-enforcement agency (police force) there is no need for the citizens to be armed. The "Wild West" ended some years back.
    Signature
    "...If at first you don't succeed; call it Version 1.0"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6710297].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

      In countries where you have an effective law-enforcement agency (police force) there is no need for the citizens to be armed. The "Wild West" ended some years back.
      So the cops will fight off a dictator, etc...? That worked REAL well in germany!(sarc)!

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6710348].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        So the cops will fight off a dictator, etc...? That worked REAL well in germany!(sarc)!

        Steve
        Eh? You think a dictatorship of the kind you refer to is possible in the US? Really? You are serious?
        Signature
        "...If at first you don't succeed; call it Version 1.0"
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6711756].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
          Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

          Eh? You think a dictatorship of the kind you refer to is possible in the US? Really? You are serious?
          Its already a dictatorship, its just been cleverly disguised.

          Seriously. follow the money trail. Our government is "Owned" by a select few. That few would be the families that own the Federal Reserve.

          If you personally had the ability to create unlimited amounts of money from the time you were 5 years old till now....there is only one ultimate and unavoidable outcome.

          You would eventually own everything and everybody.

          ..and that is where we sit today. Everything is in the hands of a few.

          ...and I mean that literally, not figureatively.

          A dictatorship doesn't necessarily have to be " a person"...but even so...you really think "we" elect the president? not when someone else decides who our choices will be.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6712776].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

          Eh? You think a dictatorship of the kind you refer to is possible in the US? Really? You are serious?
          Do you REALLY think Germany was THAT different? Many seem to think they are evil, etc... They AREN'T! A lot of good Science, Art, etc... Came out of there. HECK, English is a (gulp) germanic language. The Goethe Institute Spreads the idea of german culture and language all over the world. Deutsche Welle (DW.DE) seems pretty open, has german lessons and a little culture and history, for FREE, and gives international news in lots of languages.

          If you look at THAT place with an open eye, and ask "could that happen here", you would probably be as likely to say no as you would here, at least here several decades ago.

          In answer to your question, I DO think it could happen here, and I AM serious. IWICSM!!!!!!

          Steve
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6713152].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
            I have to say jump in and say thanks, Steve. I didn't know that stuff about Germany.

            Yesterday I pounded a Brit on this thread because he said there can be no gun control - for the people have no self-control. I hate to say it, but the guy was absolutely correct.

            I've been to many other countries, most of them have a population who do respect the law and each other. I could walk down the street and never feel threatened once.

            The argument other civilized countries have done it, so we can do it too doesn't fly. Perhaps the smaller farming communities would be ok, but the big city gang environments - there is little proof of any civil behavior.

            On top of that, we have a runaway government who does not respect the law. Take a look at fast and furious, which was run under - count them - two administrations. An irresponsible government isn't about to go out of it's way and disarm criminals. Why would they? It isn't in their best interest. More crime gives them more power in the end.

            When Austerity comes to the U.S., and it will, there is going to be precious little to stand between the moral and the immoral . (China can't lend us money forever, and the world won't allow us to keep printing money by the trillions.)

            When the crash hits, still the mindless and the blind will not see it, though it is right in front of them. This is a well orchestrated dance. We will probably be at war with Iran, and the government will blame the inflation on high gas prices. The people will buy into it hook, line and sinker. Israel wants to know why we haven't done anything yet about Iran, it's because the economic timing isn't right yet.

            Gun control, Iran, economics, China, they are all small pieces of the big picture, and they all connect one way or another.
            Signature

            I

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6713877].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

              I've been to many other countries, most of them have a population who do respect the law and each other. I could walk down the street and never feel threatened once.

              The argument other civilized countries have done it, so we can do it too doesn't fly. Perhaps the smaller farming communities would be ok, but the big city gang environments - there is little proof of any civil behavior.

              On top of that, we have a runaway government who does not respect the law. Take a look at fast and furious, which was run under - count them - two administrations. An irresponsible government isn't about to go out of it's way and disarm criminals. Why would they? It isn't in their best interest. More crime gives them more power in the end.

              When Austerity comes to the U.S., and it will, there is going to be precious little to stand between the moral and the immoral . (China can't lend us money forever, and the world won't allow us to keep printing money by the trillions.)

              When the crash hits, still the mindless and the blind will not see it, though it is right in front of them. This is a well orchestrated dance. We will probably be at war with Iran, and the government will blame the inflation on high gas prices. The people will buy into it hook, line and sinker. Israel wants to know why we haven't done anything yet about Iran, it's because the economic timing isn't right yet.

              Gun control, Iran, economics, China, they are all small pieces of the big picture, and they all connect one way or another.
              You're right. If people from all over are rioting on my doorstep, because the economy is obliterated, do you think I will care about paying taxes? If so, YOU ARE NUTS! Do you think the police will care about going to work? WHY? OH SURE a guy is marred and has kids and he or she will leave them to go to work to clean up corpses elsewhere while leaving their loved ones at home to fend for themselves, YEAH RIGHT!

              So those that THINK they have security should realize they may not. Those that figure their income is certain should realize that it is a GIVEN that it ISN'T! EVEN if the government SOMEHOW decided to DOUBLE their "income" hyperinflation would eat through it. BTW guys! The VERY RICH that kept their money here ALSO may lose everything.

              Pure logic tells me such a thing could NEVER happen ANYWAY! WHY would it? Most riots seem so problematic and SELF preservation should prevent the rest. So WHY do I think it WILL?????? What about the debt? Well, I think EVERYONE SEES THAT! GIVEN!!!!!!!
              What about the possible currency hyperinflation, etc? The SAME thing happened in many OTHER countries! So it CAN happen! What about an UNCONTROLLED DOLLAR? It is FIAT! Only a PROMISE holds it together! Get rid of the promise, and the value could drop to ZERO! So what about RIOTS? Whenever certain things happen that some don't agree with, etc.... THEY HAPPEN! That is perhaps the MOST certain prediction!

              With all of those givens, my apparent fantasy is looking more and more like a CERTAINTY!
              IMAGINE those riots that have only affected a county, state, or various pockets nationwide happening EVERYWHERE.

              Steve
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6715127].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Sure it's possible but highly unlikely. Some people here in the US are a LOT more paranoid about these things than the general population.
          Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

          Eh? You think a dictatorship of the kind you refer to is possible in the US? Really? You are serious?
          Signature
          Over 50 Dating
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6713713].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

      In countries where you have an effective law-enforcement agency (police force) there is no need for the citizens to be armed. The "Wild West" ended some years back.
      The most effective law enforcement in the world won't be there when some nutter breaks into your home and endangers your life and the lives of your loved ones. In such cases, law enforcement just becomes a glorified clean up crew.

      Outside of food and shelter, the most basic tenet of life is protection from harm. Just because I'm a law abiding citizen shouldn't mean I'm forced to bring a knife to a gun fight.
      Signature

      Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6711294].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        The most effective law enforcement in the world won't be there when some nutter breaks into your home and endangers your life and the lives of your loved ones. In such cases, law enforcement just becomes a glorified clean up crew.

        Outside of food and shelter, the most basic tenet of life is protection from harm. Just because I'm a law abiding citizen shouldn't mean I'm forced to bring a knife to a gun fight.
        Other civilized countries seem to manage OK without arming its citizens. With fewer guns maybe the "nutters" won't have guns?

        Statistically how many times do "nutters" break in? I think there is probably a greater probability of being struck by lightening...more than once.

        Without kids having access to guns there would be fewer High School massacres?

        What about tazers and pepper spray for personal protection?
        Signature
        "...If at first you don't succeed; call it Version 1.0"
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6711735].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

          Other civilized countries seem to manage OK without arming its citizens. With fewer guns maybe the "nutters" won't have guns?

          Statistically how many times do "nutters" break in? I think there is probably a greater probability of being struck by lightening...more than once.

          Without kids having access to guns there would be fewer High School massacres?

          What about tazers and pepper spray for personal protection?
          One, I don't live in a "civilized" country anymore. That train left decades ago. Criminals will always have guns. It's the law abiding who wouldn't in your scenario.

          Two, I prefer to leave statistics to statisticians when it comes to my personal safety. How many times? All that matters is once. Where I live, which is in a relatively safe area by comparison to other cities of similar size, "housejackings" are no longer statistical outliers. I'll leave your comparison to lightning strikes to Steve. He's better at those kinds of things than I am.

          Three, the sheer number of guns in current circulation means children will always have access to them. Heck, whoever wants one will have access to one. Stop production of guns today, right this minute, and the murder rate involving guns most likely wouldn't drop for decades, if not longer. When it did? Murder with knives, axes, chainsaws, forks, etc will rise. Total carnage is mass murder may decrease, I'll give you that. However, I bet the net result when compared to people who died because they couldn't defend themselves wouldn't come out the way we'd like, statistically-speaking.

          Four, governments are already outlawing pepper spray and tazers. Some don't even want the police force to have them. At the end of the day, I'll be forced to defend myself with rocks against criminals who don't give a crap what the law states.

          Don't get me wrong. I don't own a gun. However, I wouldn't remove one from the hand of someone who desperately needed one.
          Signature

          Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6711900].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
          Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

          Other civilized countries seem to manage OK without arming its citizens. With fewer guns maybe the "nutters" won't have guns?

          Statistically how many times do "nutters" break in? I think there is probably a greater probability of being struck by lightening...more than once.

          Without kids having access to guns there would be fewer High School massacres?

          What about tazers and pepper spray for personal protection?
          As I stated in an earlier reply...focusing on the "nutters" is missing the whole rest of the picture.

          What I would encourage you to do is go find out how many lives are saved daily and weekly by people who used a firearm to defend themselves...its a STAGGERING number no matter whos research you look at.

          Its in the THOUSANDS per week ! ...and your talking about the occasional nutters?

          From a numbers standpoint they just about don't even register on the scale.


          ....they just get all the media attention.

          So you want to take all the guns away from the GOOD people? ....do that and you've just added a couple thousand casualties every week.

          now, why would anyone want to do that?

          People like to point to other countries with gun bans in place...those countries also have more severe penalties for crime....so to sit and say its cuz of the lack of guns is akin to altering scientific data to produce an advantageous result.

          If your going to get up in arms about anything...maybe pick something like the Food and Drug Administration...purposely and knowingly killing thousands per year by supressing natural remedies, and protecting and promoting the profits of BigPharma...(things such as banning the B-17 vitamin and apricot seeds for example...or allowing a former military biowarfare chemical to be marketed as a sweetener in most of our food, or forcing people to take chemotherapy even though it cant be proven that it does any good. plenty of data to show it does nothing but kill people)

          Where's the outcry over all that?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6712687].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
            Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

            .or allowing a former military biowarfare chemical to be marketed as a sweetener in most of our food
            WHAT? seriously, what are you talking about... no flaming here,
            i am honestly interested in your what your talking about.
            Signature

            Selling Ain't for Sissies!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6712820].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

          Other civilized countries seem to manage OK without arming its citizens. With fewer guns maybe the "nutters" won't have guns?
          Guns are often EXPENSIVE! Mine cost over $900 USD! Criminals often buy like saturday night specials on the black market for $25 or less. They may even recycle them in a way. There never seems to be a shortage.

          Statistically how many times do "nutters" break in? I think there is probably a greater probability of being struck by lightening...more than once.
          I have NEVER had my car broken into! NEVER! Even when it was UNLOCKED!

          In the about 50 years I have been on this planet, my house has ****NEVER**** been broken into except for ONE time when I was gone for only 3 hours.

          All my car accidents PUT TOGETHER cost less than I paid for insurance.

          So should I leave my doors unlocked and just take chances?

          OH, and for most of my life, my health care costs have been LOW!

          Without kids having access to guns there would be fewer High School massacres?
          Probably, but we don't have access to time machines necessary to do such a feat.

          What about tazers and pepper spray for personal protection?
          Tazers have a limited range, and both points have to make contact. Police use them NOT to catch or defend, but to assist in restraint. That is TOTALLY different.

          Pepper spray is NOT a valid defense against guns, or even knives. It is used to assist in a get away and to stun. AGAIN, it doesn't fit the need. Use it against a gun, ASSUMING you are close enough and get a good shot, the person may just shoot for the heck of it. Of course, WHAT are the odds?

          BTW I went to work at 1am at a customer site. *****MY***** car wasn't broken into, but the customers was! at an apartment I was at MY car wasn't broken into but at least 6 others were. And SOME people have supposedly been hit with lightning 5 times or more!

          People have tried to mug me in some way maybe 6 times.

          I had to have open heart surgery!

          Steve
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6713562].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
            Guess dude would call Paul Revere an MM nut, also.

            Nuts or Pioneers, how many in history?

            How 'bout those nuts that were killed because they said the Earth was not flat?

            What does "Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" mean?

            That's the sound sheep make, cause all they care about is eating grass and think life is good cause their stomach is fat. Their being FED by the same "shepherd" that's going to put them on his plate, and sell the rest for slaughter so he can profit.

            When you want a nice, comfortable, restful sleep, listen to the serene sounds of the sheep.

            A temporary sleep that leads to the more permanent sleep.

            Maybe sheep can take solace the moment before slaughter that it comes so quickly.

            To sheep, death by Totalitarianism or death by old age is scant difference in the two.

            Despite history of the various downfall of potent, unconquerable Empires that fell, that is simply a Impossibility for the U.S.A..., they trust, with their life and the future life of their families that the leaders who are in charge will go against the thousands upon thousands of years of odds, all the while duplicating the almost EXACT same blueprint that brought down the others.

            Now that is a die-hard, serious gambler.

            The Government Infrastructure and Clandestine Services would love to employ this type of person.

            That's quite a stretch to simply characterize a Government that is close to total abandonment of The Constitution and having in it's place The Patriot Act and Martial Law and considering, on paper and Law, citizens to be defined as potential enemy combatants as simply "not perfect" or some slightly disagreeable things.

            Thousands upon thousands of proven, documented cases of various Government agencies harassment, abuse, imprisonment, bankrupting a person, murder, etc., of citizens simply because they had a hard on for that person, but since it has not happened to them and their love ones....,.... yet...,...... they really and all honestly could really care less.

            They have a life that's good for them, that's ALL that really counts in the total.

            They simply won't and don't believe it because it has not happened to them.

            Santa Claus and The Good Witch, somewhere in government, is going to make it all better, eventually.

            That is their religion and they are sticking by it, to the end.


            The 13th Warrior
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6713865].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

          Other civilized countries seem to manage OK without arming its citizens. With fewer guns maybe the "nutters" won't have guns?

          Statistically how many times do "nutters" break in? I think there is probably a greater probability of being struck by lightening...more than once.

          Without kids having access to guns there would be fewer High School massacres?

          What about tazers and pepper spray for personal protection?
          Criminals can get guns whenever they want. The only thing that happens if they take our guns is that we will be defenseless against criminals (in and out of gov). Don't forget we have an unprotected border that criminals are coming over every day of the week. Bet people can't just climb across your border with weapons as they please to do so.

          Frankly, there haven't been any school shootings that the kid wasn't on some sort of psychotropic drug -- so the answer is not to take our guns, it's to quit drugging our kids into delirium.

          So far as the question - could a dictatorship like Germany ever happen here?
          Would you have thought that total surveillance could have happened here? Would you have thought that the NDAA could have happened here? When the gov gives itself permission to just grab someone, throw them in jail, deny them a lawyer or trial, and keep them locked up forever if they please, what more proof do you need that ANYTHING can happen here?

          And the people are stupid here generally. Listen to people rant about George Bush being elected. He was NEVER - neither time - elected with a majority of the public vote. I don't know why the 5 minute memory syndrome.........maybe back to the vast amounts of drugs they are throwing down people's throats? We are not given a choice of candidates. We are forced to chose between the ones they GIVE us. Of course, if enough people got the clue and wrote in who they wanted instead of the furnished choices we might stand a chance to get someone other than another elite continuum rep.

          When you are dealing with people who can't remember for two weeks after the bailout that they threatened to remove their reps from office if they supported it, don't think they can figure things out that far. Most of them can't figure out what "corporate media" means. Give them some textbooks and let them read about Germany's corporate controlled press and maybe they could -- but you won't find that info being taught in gov run schools here. There has been an impeachment investigation going on now for some odd months and most Americans have no clue ..........do ya think that maybe a free press might at least inform them that their president is being investigated for impeachment?

          Good cripes - our Constitution is being overthrown and all anyone can yap about is taking guns away from our citizens? Get a clue. Germany can happen in any country at any time. All it takes is greed.
          Signature

          Sal
          When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
          Beyond the Path

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6714315].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

      In countries where you have an effective law-enforcement agency (police force) there is no need for the citizens to be armed. The "Wild West" ended some years back.
      I believe those are called "police states" and are run by "dictators."

      In America, we believe in a thing called freedom, and it's lawful citizens to protect themselves at their own discretion, based around the constitution.

      Not allowing citizens to protect themselves from criminals only makes crime much worse, and there needs to be a system of checks and balances in case the government turns tyrannical.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6729622].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    Liberator, I think you've been drinking too much mainstream media koolaide.

    There is nothing to fear from these Anti-Government" groups. AND...just because you read something about one group that it is proper to lump them alltogether.

    These groups are NOT anti-government...that is a misguided "label". (with the exception of a couple small nutty ones lol) the majority of these groups are in fact NOT anti-government....they just want what you and I want....a government that actually follows the constitution...and not the bidding of the bankers.

    In my miind...for someone NOT TO FEAR our own government above anything else...well...I can only say they must be three kinds of stupid...there's just no other explanation.

    If you dig deeper into what these groups are syaing you will find that they are actually very astute and alert to what the government is doing on a daily basis...they are the watchdogs....the rest of us or neck deep in what the Kardashians are doing.

    To give you an idea just how numb and dumb our society is.....when the NY Times admits that all major news outlets have their news censored by the government...My God Man! that has major MAJOR implications...but no public outcry?

    Our Congress made it legal for themselves to do insider trading...WTF...and no public outcry.

    It is revealed that all the major banks that got bailouts have CEO's sitting on chairs in the Federal Reserve...an historically epic conflict of interest...but no public outcry.

    I don't know why you are so scared of the MM groups...they aren't going to do anything to you. If they ever do anything at all...it will be attempting to protect you.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6710553].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      Liberator, I think you've been drinking too much mainstream media koolaide.

      There is nothing to fear from these Anti-Government" groups. AND...just because you read something about one group that it is proper to lump them alltogether.

      These groups are NOT anti-government...that is a misguided "label". (with the exception of a couple small nutty ones lol) the majority of these groups are in fact NOT anti-government....they just want what you and I want....a government that actually follows the constitution...and not the bidding of the bankers.

      In my miind...for someone NOT TO FEAR our own government above anything else...well...I can only say they must be three kinds of stupid...there's just no other explanation.

      If you dig deeper into what these groups are syaing you will find that they are actually very astute and alert to what the government is doing on a daily basis...they are the watchdogs....the rest of us or neck deep in what the Kardashians are doing.

      To give you an idea just how numb and dumb our society is.....when the NY Times admits that all major news outlets have their news censored by the government...My God Man! that has major MAJOR implications...but no public outcry?

      Our Congress made it legal for themselves to do insider trading...WTF...and no public outcry.

      It is revealed that all the major banks that got bailouts have CEO's sitting on chairs in the Federal Reserve...an historically epic conflict of interest...but no public outcry.

      I don't know why you are so scared of the MM groups...they aren't going to do anything to you. If they ever do anything at all...it will be attempting to protect you.
      I'm not saying the feds are perfect and you can list dozens and dozens of examples of things gone wrong with our society if you like, but I'll be most happy to do without the protection of the MM groups.


      BTW, there are plenty of reasonable people who do not fear the fed gov above all else in this society as you insist we should.


      If those MM groups are the answer then God help us on the question.


      TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6711222].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        God help us on the question.
        WHAT? WHO? The government is even killing off that concept, unless you use a 5 letter word!

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6711556].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    I can't believe that there are so many people who are blind to human nature. If there are means to control a person, you can bet your last dollar that there is another person willing to employ those means. All the while, they'll be trying to convince you it's for "your protection".

    TL: how many of those "MM" groups you're so scared of have actually DONE anything? You've been shown the bogeyman; now you want the benevolent government to "monitor" them.

    The fundamental precept of the founding of the United States of America was freedom. The freedoms of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Those freedoms are long gone, legislated away by lawmakers who were enabled by a vocal minority who prefer "security" instead of freedom, who don't mind - indeed, are comforted by - being dependent on government.

    I am much more concerned with what goes on in the halls of government than in the camps of the "MM". One is an elephant on a rampage, the other is a gnat.
    Signature

    The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

    Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6714411].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    13th,

    GOOD POINT!!!! This country was BUILT by such people!

    Steve,

    I HATE it when people say this is human nature. I HOPE humans don't seek to control one another.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6715148].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ChadClayton
    gun wasn't the issue... it was the human brain that triggers hostile and violence that are deadly to take life and to kill.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6715580].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Just reinforcement that the person does the killing, not the weapon:

    News from The Associated Press
    Signature

    The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

    Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6721788].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

      Just reinforcement that the person does the killing, not the weapon:

      News from The Associated Press

      Well, that does it! China needs to ban knives. Sure, we'll just start reading about viscious spoon attacks, but at least they'll change the way people get killed.


      Oh, and I guess even the most "civilized" of nations is having problems with escalating violence:

      http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/news...years-20120517
      Signature

      Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6722118].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Affiliatethis
    Laws don't protect. It's a piece of paper. A piece paper only protects you if you are playing rocks paper scissors shoot..... Last time I checked the Police can only react to something. Case and point Mexico. Guns are outlawed there. How are those laws working?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6722133].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Gun control laws won't work. Because it's not the mentally stable, law abiding citizens you have to worry about.
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6722177].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    lol, my newest addition to the wardrobe is a T-shirt with the dark knight logo, filled with bullet holes, that says "Pirating Movies Saves Lives"

    people seem so angry when they see me out in public wearing it.. i dont understand why

    lmfao
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6722208].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post


      If you think it isn't possible, you're just the kind of person that would never see it coming until it was too late.

      Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post


      Very misguided assumption. LMAO.


      Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post


      The Government Infrastructure and Clandestine Services would love to employ this type of person.



      This guy reminds me of the citizens in the prisoner village of the 60's british t.v. show THE PRISONER, starring PATRICK MCGOOHAN .

      PATRICK MCGOOHAN's character used to carry out Black Op type assignments for his masters, yet, even with this knowledge of how his masters deal with any entity that gives them trouble, he let his emotions not only get the best of him, but preceded to explain his conflict as though there is a human heart or soul to the entities he served, never considering what he did as a service and job to FOR them would be turned ON him.

      Guaranteeeeeeeeed, this is STILL, true now.

      Watch the opening scene. Then watch an episode, not so much for the story, simply watch the behavior of "so-called" ORDINARY citizens going about their jobs and lives in this prison society , enjoying some amount of freedom in a truly freedomless society.

      For them, that's as good as it is going to get or to be expected.

      Why go through the pointless mental anguish of wanting more ? More, being that which is organically natural and by right of all humans.

      They go about their daily lives and jobs like StepFord Wives, satisfied of their hypnosis, either knowing and not caring, totally oblivious to what's really happening or matter of fact accepting this as the way life is and try to enjoy and make the best of it, even so far as to be defenders of their prison and controllers.

      All are prisoners:






      Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post


      The Government Infrastructure and Clandestine Services would love to employ this type of person.

      To be so cavalier about the impossibility of history repeating itself, either he and/or relatives are in some connection with government infrastructure, clandestine services or corporate owned media.

      Well, at least they better be getting a 6 figure salary for selling out the populous to the controllers of his admiration while putting the same populous to mind numbing sleep.

      Possible services being rendered in their prospective fields?

      "Here sheep, have some more grass and water, eat and drink all you want".

      Funny, though, most of these herds have no concept or know of the sound of a buzz saw slicing through flesh.

      I wonder will he be "LMAO" while this is happening?

      Wonder if this attitude will get him to be "The #2 or close to it, like in THE PRISONER?

      Probably pays well.



      The 13th Warrior
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6725677].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Fascinating article here:

        In light of a broken engagement two years ago, area school-bus driver and longtime conspiracy enthusiast Robert Ericsson outlined an intricate theory to reporters Tuesday to explain his failure to begin a new relationship.

        "I am alone today due to the covert machinations of dozens, possibly hundreds of women in several countries," Ericsson, 38, said. "What we are looking at is a plot of epic proportions, which may seem counterintuitive, but that is, in fact, precisely what they would like you to believe."

        Ericsson said he began to suspect a "hidden hand" at work during the months following his 2004 breakup with then-fiancée Sara Osborne, when potential dates routinely refused to return his calls or e-mails.

        Ericsson cites a comprehensive archive of past-girlfriend-related historical evidence that he has collected over the past 10 years. Ericsson, considered the top Robert Ericsson romantic-failure expert in the country, has spent years studying the hundreds of letters, photographs, receipts, gifts, and videotapes of himself with former girlfriends, looking for a common pattern.

        The focus of Ericsson's current research is the six-day period preceding his breakup with Osborne back in March 2004.
        Conspiracy Theorist Has Elaborate Explanation For Why He's Single | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
        Signature
        Over 50 Dating
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6726290].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Devone
          America Should Produce more weapons maybe then it will stop *ironie Off*
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6727986].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Effective law enforcement? What have you been smoking! Let's see... They must be:

    BRAVE
    FAST
    ATTENTIVE
    CLOSE
    HONEST
    CAPABLE
    SMART
    WILLING TO FIGHT TYRANY
    ALTRUISTIC TO A FAULT!

    SORRY, they DON'T exist! It is RARE! Did you know jerks at restaurants call the police to get them ketchup for their fries!?!?!?!? My mother called them several times telling them I was dead. With garbage like THAT going on, I can't depend on them to be CLOSE, FAST, ATTENTIVE, CAPABLE, and I doubt any are the other, so you might as well forget it.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6731542].message }}

Trending Topics