Marilyn Monroe: Holy Cajole! Is this true?

14 years ago

Some sources are saying it was anywhere from 163 to 174...though I haven't found a verifiable source...

I did find someone saying that George W. Bush's IQ was 180...which would put him 20 points higher than Einstein...so...you never know what you might find?

btw: I going to need a verifiable citation on the above claim...

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John Atkins

14 years ago

I don't believe it. As for this:

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I did find someone saying that George W. Bush's IQ was 180...which would put him 20 points higher than Einstein...so...you never know what you might find?

The other presidents must have had IQs over 200 then, since
pretty much all of them were smarter than him.

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GforceSage

14 years ago

George W. Bush has the lowest IQ among presidents since they started analyzing IQ's.

George W. Bushes IQ was measured at 91 by the Lowenstein Institute.

BIll Clinton was the highest in the 180's.

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Dan Riffle

14 years ago

Originally Posted by GforceSage

George W. Bush has the lowest IQ among presidents since they started analyzing IQ's.

George W. Bushes IQ was measured at 91 by the Lowenstein Institute.

BIll Clinton was the highest in the 180's.

Not quite so sayeth Snopes:
snopes.com: Presidential IQ Hoax

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Not quite so sayeth Snopes:
snopes.com: Presidential IQ Hoax

Th Snopes report calls the list false, yet they did not offer an alternative list...it is true it is very difficult to determine in many cases how effective anyone might be in any position of leadership, but for instance, (just an example) when John McCain graduates at very near the bottom (894 out of 899 at the Naval Academy) of his large class - what is to be perceived or inferred from that? That he just liked to "party a lot" (he did) and got in because his father was an Admiral (he was)? GW Bush went to Yale (father/grandfather alumni) and Harvard, but was not known to be an outstanding student (C average) - in comparison (again, not playing 'party' just the first relatable comparison for this) Obama graduated Magna cum Laude*, and had the highest GPA of anyone graduating from Harvard Law School that year...(whether you like his politics or not, he's no dummy)(if any one has a good GOP graduate, you are more than welcome to use it for comparison)

I do not know where any of these 3 rank in IQ, but from their academic record for comparison, who of the 3 would be deemed sharpest in the shed?

(*apparently no one had graduated Summa cum Laude from Harvard in decades and no one graduated Summa cum Laude that year)

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Dan Riffle

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Th Snopes report calls the list false, yet they did not offer an alternative list...it is true it is very difficult to determine in many cases how effective anyone might be in any position of leadership, but for instance, (just an example) when John McCain graduates at very near the bottom (894 out of 899 at the Naval Academy) of his large class - what is to be perceived or inferred from that? That he just liked to "party a lot" (he did) and got in because his father was an Admiral (he was)? GW Bush went to Yale (father/grandfather alumni) and Harvard, but was not known to be an outstanding student (C average) - in comparison (again, not playing 'party' just the first relatable comparison for this) Obama graduated Magna cum Laude*, and had the highest GPA of anyone graduating from Harvard Law School that year...(whether you like his politics or not, he's no dummy)(if any one has a good GOP graduate, you are more than welcome to use it for comparison)

I do not know where any of these 3 rank in IQ, but from their academic record for comparison, who of the 3 would be deemed sharpest in the shed?

(*apparently no one had graduated Summa cum Laude from Harvard in decades and no one graduated Summa cum Laude that year)

I'm not here to argue the mental capacities of various world leaders. I simply pointed out the falsity of a statement made above. (Not yours, the other one.)

I side with the folks who believe Bush is no academic mastermind. However, I also don't buy into the "he can barely contain his own drool" crowd.

I'm also not convinced we actually want our leaders to be the smartest people in the room. I'd rather they be smart enough to recognize the smartest people, put them to work, and utilize the data the eggheads provide.

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I'm not here to argue to mental capacities of various world leaders. I simply pointed out the falsity of a statement made above. (Not yours, the other one.)

I side with the folks who believe Bush is no academic mastermind. However, I also don't buy into the "he can barely contain his own drool" crowd.

I'm also not convinced we actually want our leaders to be the smartest people in the room. I'd rather they be smart enough to recognize the smartest people, put them to work, and utilize the data the eggheads provide.

This is not about politics, but exploring IQ (whatever the heck that really means or signifies). According to SAT to IQ conversion charts, George W. Bush's IQ would be approximately 125. That is very smart. For the record, I never thought he was dumb (whatever unmentioned things I may think of him, lol). He's not the dimmest streetlight in the neighborhood, but far from the brightest.

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Dan Riffle

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

This is not about politics, but exploring IQ (whatever the heck that really means or signifies). According to SAT to IQ conversion charts, George W. Bush's IQ would be approximately 125. That is very smart. For the record, I never thought he was dumb (whatever unmentioned things I may think of him, lol). He's not the dimmest streetlight in the neighborhood, but far from the brightest.

Easy, TBird, I was just clearing up some questions and incorrect information posted above.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

[quote=Dan Riffle;6876807]I'm not here to argue to mental capacities of various world leaders. I simply pointed out the falsity of a statement made above. (Not yours, the other one.)

I side with the folks who believe Bush is no academic mastermind. However, I also don't buy into the "he can barely contain his own drool" crowd.

I'm also not convinced we actually want our leaders to be the smartest people in the room. I'd rather they be smart enough to recognize the smartest people, put them to work, and utilize the data the eggheads provide.[/QUOTE}

Originally Posted by thunderbird

This is not about politics, but exploring IQ (whatever the heck that really means or signifies). According to SAT to IQ conversion charts, George W. Bush's IQ would be approximately 125. That is very smart. For the record, I never thought he was dumb (whatever unmentioned things I may think of him, lol).

Hey! you heard Dan! The guy can barely contain his own drool!

:rolleyes: :p

(jk Dan)

125 is good, (Dubya got a 1206 on his SAT) I only relayed his GPA, so I didn't know about his SAT's, but Huey Lewis scored a perfect 800 on his math SATs, (but then he never ran for president either) but for comparison:
Bill Gates got 1590 and Bill O'Reilly got 1585...Paul Allen got a 1600 - and ironically, Obama did not release his SAT scores....(at least no where I can find, kinda wonder what he's hiding there)

But back to Marilyn and the smart gorillas - I used to have a landlord who I remember one of his family saying his IQ was 65, and it was not high enough to get into the Navy...so...man

I've seen Koko the Gorilla...I wonder what her IQ is? She's pretty sharp -

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

<snip>
Bill Gates got 1590 and Bill O'Reilly got 1585...Paul Allen got a 1600 - and ironically, Obama did not release his SAT scores....

Yeah, it's not hard to find people who scored way higher than "W". I don't even have to look beyond my own family members, lol (but none of them would qualify to run for president, being Canadian and all).

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Yeah, it's not hard to find people who scored way higher than "W". I don't even have to look beyond my own family members, lol (but none of them would qualify to run for president, being Canadian and all).

No problem! From what I understand...all you have to do is 'doctor' your birth certificate a little! :p - (and try not to say 'eh after everything)

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

[/B]
No problem! From what I understand...all you have to do is 'doctor' your birth certificate a little! :p - (and try not to say 'eh after everything)

Sounds like the makings of a Saturday Night Live skit!

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lcombs

14 years ago

It doesn't surprise me.
Considering her talent and the way she marketed herself.
I can envision, the way her life played out, that with a high IQ
could lead to deep depression.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Well, there isn't anything in Wikipedia on Marilyn having an IQ that high, or mention of one at all for that matter...and we all know this is the most reliable source known to man...

It was said that Arthur Miller didn't find her particularly stimulating in a cerebral way - though I'm sure he found her stimulating in many other ways...who knows, maybe she was smarter than him, and found him a bore...

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Kay King

14 years ago

According to some of the official records of her life, MM never took a standard IQ test. Others claim the high numbers but don't say where the "results" came from or when the tests were done. Numbers vary - 160, 163, 168...

She was smart and funny and no dumb blond - but I think exaggeration is afoot.

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

According to some of the official records of her life, MM never took a standard IQ test. Others claim the high numbers but don't say where the "results" came from or when the tests were done. Numbers vary - 160, 163, 168...

She was smart and funny and no dumb blond - but I think exaggeration is afoot.

I think you're right. She was very talented, sure, but there really seems to be no evidence for those claims. That IQ number seems to be a made-up fact.

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David Maschke

14 years ago

Madonna and Nichole Kidman also have very high IQ's

Kennedy had a 119, which puts him below GW. Those poor guys have it rough in that office, though. They seem to age very quickly. One or two people may disagree with me, but I personally don't think that job pays enough.

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HeySal

14 years ago

I graduated with high honors................and don't even remember taking an SAT test. WTF? Oh....THAT'S why they called it "high" honors. I get it now.

Drool .

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David Maschke

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I graduated with high honors................and don't even remember taking an SAT test. WTF? Oh....THAT'S why they called it "high" honors. I get it now.

Drool .

At least you have an excuse and had some fun

I on the other hand am known for being EXTREMELY average :p

When some of you get together and debate cool topics or discuss science, I just can't keep up.

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by David Maschke

At least you have an excuse and had some fun

I on the other hand am known for being EXTREMELY average :p

When some of you get together and debate cool topics or discuss science, I just can't keep up.

Average at what? It's not graphics. I WISH I had your talent at graphics.

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Not quite so sayeth Snopes:
snopes.com: Presidential IQ Hoax

As far as I can tell, there are three kinds of people who repeat that kind of stuff. Those who just want to believe what they want to believe regardless of truth; the gullible; and those who want to denegrate others they don't align with in a way that's important to them.

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Th Snopes report calls the list false, yet they did not offer an alternative list

So?

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

As far as I can tell, there are three kinds of people who repeat that kind of stuff. Those who just want to believe what they want to believe regardless of truth; the gullible; and those who want to denegrate others they don't align with in a way that's important to them.

So?

I think the Marylin Monroe thing is just because a lot of people assumed because she was beautiful and blond she had to also be stupid - which is not the truth.

All the SAT stuff though is confusing to me because you don't even need an SAT score to go to school. I never took one. Seriously. I watch people talk - and they quote SAT and IQ - and they don't seem to correlate very closely over large amounts of students. So I don't know what good they are or why they are important. So what if you get a pure crap SAT and have a stellar IQ? What's that prove? Schizophrenia?

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I think the Marylin Monroe thing is just because a lot of people assumed because she was beautiful and blond she had to also be stupid - which is not the truth.

All the SAT stuff though is confusing to me because you don't even need an SAT score to go to school. I never took one. Seriously. I watch people talk - and they quote SAT and IQ - and they don't seem to correlate very closely over large amounts of students. So I don't know what good they are or why they are important. So what if you get a pure crap SAT and have a stellar IQ? What's that prove? Schizophrenia?

I was referring to the hoax about Bush's IQ. I quoted Dan because he was the first to expose it. That may have caused confusion about what I was referring to. My bad.

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I think the Marylin Monroe thing is just because a lot of people assumed because she was beautiful and blond she had to also be stupid - which is not the truth.

All the SAT stuff though is confusing to me because you don't even need an SAT score to go to school. I never took one. Seriously. I watch people talk - and they quote SAT and IQ - and they don't seem to correlate very closely over large amounts of students. So I don't know what good they are or why they are important. So what if you get a pure crap SAT and have a stellar IQ? What's that prove? Schizophrenia?

I think correlations are are never direct, far from 100%, and likely non-applicable in the case of genuine geniuses who may or may not have particularly high IQs. Again, high SAT is not synonymous with high IQ and high IQ is not synonymous with "genius," and not even with "smart". There is a strong overlap in some but not all cases, at best. Musicians, great basketball players, and others possess myriad talents that demand cognitive skills but are completely missed by such tests. I believe in tests as indicators and clues, not as being the same as that which they're pointing to any more than a finger pointing to the moon is the moon.

Reading what I wrote in this post attests that I have an extremely high FOB score (Full of B*llsh*t).

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Well...it kind of would have been nice if they had said "this is false -and here's why" :rolleyes: It sort of gives you a little more to go on...

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Well...it kind of would have been nice if they had said "this is false -and here's why" :rolleyes: It sort of gives you a little more to go on...

It did tell you why it was false.

Not offering an alternative list doesn't discredit their discrediting of the hoax. :rolleyes:

If you're concerned with "having more to go on" I would submit, it gives you a lot more to go on than this:

Originally Posted by GforceSage

George W. Bush has the lowest IQ among presidents since they started analyzing IQ's.

George W. Bushes IQ was measured at 91 by the Lowenstein Institute.

BIll Clinton was the highest in the 180's.

...which is what Dan's response addressed. You want something to go on, how about finding proof that the above hoax is true instead of lamenting the refutation isn't enough?

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Judging how smart a person is can be a very subjective matter. Does their IQ score make them the smartest? Or is it more about accomplishments? The debate over this likely will never cease. Below, though, SuperScholar.org took a look at 10 people (in no particular order) nobody would deny are worthy of being called some of the smartest people alive today.

JUST HOW SMART IS SMART?

Smartest People In The World: The 10 Smartest People Alive Today

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KimW

14 years ago

It has been reported for years her IQ was that high.
Also reported that Mamie Van Dorn,who was also a sex symbol movie star,although a class B instead of A quality,chose the name Van Dorn because it made her sound smart.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Unicorns exist only in the imagination. I offer no real-world alternative to the unicorn.

I'm in trouble, I guess.

I submit - The Narwhal

Hey, if sailors can think Manatees are Mermaids...:rolleyes:
Those guys drank a lot of rum! :p

Here's a White Rhino for landlubber drunks

a lot can get lost in translation...

For instance, the statue of Moses, by Michelangelo...

Notice the 'horns'?
As the story goes, when 'Mickey' (as his friends called him) was researching the story of Moses for his work, he misinterpreted the Hebrew for 'spires of light' as 'spires of horn'...hence - Moses is horny...oops!

(he was going to do the same for 'David'...but in a different way, but they asked him to "tone it down a bit")

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Unicorns exist only in the imagination.I offer no real-world alternative to the unicorn.

I'm in trouble, I guess.

I can...Thad Hogg's Stumpwoody Holler sodie water.

:p

Terra

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HeySal

14 years ago

I dunno. I didn't even know Bush was real. I always thought that he was just a hand puppet that Cheney made for his own amusement.

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Dennis Gaskill 14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I dunno. I didn't even know Bush was real. I always thought that he was just a hand puppet that Cheney made for his own amusement.

That's a whole 'nother argument. :rolleyes:
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Kurt

14 years ago

I've heard that Sharon Stone has a very high IQ.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I've heard that Sharon Stone has a very high IQ.

Plus, she had basic instinct...
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- Kurt 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate
  
  Plus, she had basic instinct...
  
  And total recall.
  
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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

In looking at some figures (ie: SAT) it seems intelligence and applying one's self do not always go hand in hand -

Bill Cosby for instance, got a 400 on his SAT - yet, he applied himself, has a Doctor of Education, and several honorary degrees for his contributions - not to mention the fact that he is richer than hell...

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William Maloney

14 years ago

Well, no wonder that Marilyn Monroe was the most 'hunted' woman back then. She had a lot of class, it's obvious that she was very smart.

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seasoned

14 years ago

I remember hearing somewhere that einstein never had his IQ measured, but it was ESTIMATED to be about 170. School grades don't mean much for several reasons BUT, if they didn't party, had no outside tasks, etc... and were at their BEST, an A in remedial math from a bad teacher is NOWHERE NEAR as good as a C from a good, but hard, calculus teacher. SAT scores might be better but, again, not perfect. I certainly doubt the supposed president IQ list for several reasons.

As for marilyn monroe? Symmetrical, and healthy, features tend to be more attractive. A lack of disease and good nutrition tend to encourage that. SO, in theory, attractive people should have a better chance to be smarter. That isn't PC, but is probably true.

The lack of NEED probably leads to a lack of interest, and encourages the stereotype. In other words, they aren't mutually exclusive. And marilyn monroe was certainly around people that would encourage, and perhaps help, intelligence. So who knows. Again, I don't think I would trust public info.

AGAIN, I am just responding, NOT being political.

Steve

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I remember hearing somewhere that einstein never had his IQ measured, but it was ESTIMATED to be about 170. School grades don't mean much for several reasons BUT, if they didn't party, had no outside tasks, etc... and were at their BEST, an A in remedial math from a bad teacher is NOWHERE NEAR as good as a C from a good, but hard, calculus teacher. SAT scores might be better but, again, not perfect. I certainly doubt the supposed president IQ list for several reasons.

As for marilyn monroe? Symmetrical, and healthy, features tend to be more attractive. A lack of disease and good nutrition tend to encourage that. SO, in theory, attractive people should have a better chance to be smarter. That isn't PC, but is probably true.

The lack of NEED probably leads to a lack of interest, and encourages the stereotype. In other words, they aren't mutually exclusive. And marilyn monroe was certainly around people that would encourage, and perhaps help, intelligence. So who knows. Again, I don't think I would trust public info.

AGAIN, I am just responding, NOT being political.

Steve

I'm confused by your qualifier. What in your post might make someone misconstrue it as political? Oh, the presidents and IQs. The vast majority of US presidents of whichever party were way smarter than average, including George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, Dwight Eisenhower, and Jimmy Carter.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I'm confused by your qualifier. What in your post might make someone misconstrue it as political? Oh, the presidents and IQs. The vast majority of US presidents of whichever party were way smarter than average, including George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, Dwight Eisenhower, and Jimmy Carter.

About presidents, and I mentioned grades. I would have, and HAVE, said the same thing when presidents weren't mentioned. That presidents list has gotten a lot of mileage. HECK, a person could be miserable one day, and considered it not worth his time, and gotten a 90 when he could have gotten a 190! Another may take it several times, or know something about it, or be scored on a more lenient standard, and get a 190 when he should have gotten a 90! There are two standard IQ tests I know about that are popular and respected. One is timed, and the other isn't. I might get the untimed test done quicker and better, JUST because there is not the fear of being timed.

And yeah, I don't know how smart Americans are generally supposed to be. One would HOPE that all had IQs over 100 but that is obviously not the case. There are some at least CLAIMING to have IQs of 200 or more, and that means that more must have IQs BELOW 100. Of course, if all were over 100, they would have to readjust the scoring. 8-/

And that brings up ANOTHER thing! An A today is not worth what an A decades ago was. s a 100IQ worth what it was? I mean if everyones potential dropped 50%, they would have to raise their scores 100%! A 50IQ would be the new 100!

Steve

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MysteryOfSean

14 years ago

Was she in Mensa? I heard she was!

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Marilyn Monroe: Holy Cajole! Is this true?

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