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Discipline/punishment

by Mikaedi88
17 replies
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Here's an issue that will get some fellow Warriors emotions going: Spanking/corporal punishment of children in home and School.

My country New Zealand a number of years ago followed suit with most other countries, including some states in the US..have passed laws that make it illegal to spank our children in our own homes in the belief it would cut our child abuse rate, believing it as violence against kids..Corporal punishment in our Schools was banned in the early 80s, spanking in the home was made illegal in the last few years.

What do my fellow Warriors think?
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I think Governments have no business in people's living rooms telling them how to raise their kids. If they want kids, they should have their own.

    I don't approve of frequent or hard paddling, but a small slap or spanking sometimes is what a little one needs to straighten it's head out. I was spanked twice as a kid, and slapped in the mouth a few times when I was a cocky mouthy teenager. Oh yeah, my mom slapped my hand a few times when I was a toddler and reached for things I shouldn't touch - it reinforced what the word "no" means.

    Frequent spanking, I think, loses it's edge because if you spank for everything, kids won't get the sense of degrees of wrongness. Hard spanking (I've known people to use things like belts) is not necessary and can become abusive real fast - in fact, if you use a belt, as far as I'm concerned, that's abuse. If you'd hit me with a belt when I was a kid, I'd have hunted you down as an adult. Serious.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I think Governments have no business in people's living rooms telling them how to raise their kids. If they want kids, they should have their own.

      I don't approve of frequent or had paddling, but a small slap or spanking sometimes is what a little one needs to straighten it's head out. I was spanked twice as a kid, and slapped in the mouth a few times when I was a cocky mouthy teenager. Oh yeah, my mom slapped my hand a few times when I was a toddler and reached for things I shouldn't touch - it reinforced what the word "no" means.

      Frequent spanking, I think, loses it's edge because if you spank for everything, kids won't get the sense of degrees of wrongness. Hard spanking (I've known people to use things like belts) is not necessary and can become abusive real fast - in fact, if you use a belt, as far as I'm concerned, that's abuse. If you'd hit me with a belt when I was a kid, I'd have hunted you down as an adult. Serious.
      If you punish kids too late, or with NO connection to the thing you are punishing them for, or for a BAD reason, there will be NO reason for the child to comply. He or she will just get ANGRY, and figure there is no point. That is punishment 101! It doesn't matter if it is a dog or a human. And yeah, it should geerally just be a NUISANCE! Not something that will hurt the child.

      But does ******ANYONE****** think a little law will magically get rid of child abuse? And some of the biggest problems in history have been SPOILED BRATS! So there isn't even really a tie between punishment and abuse in the next generation.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        I agree with Sal and honestly wonder when lawmakers will come to the conclusion that making more and more laws is not ever going to wipe out wickedness from the heart or mental illness from the mind. Laws will never ever miraculously convert predators into law abiding citizens.

        I don't know what it will take for them to get it.

        Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author marketingva
        But does ******ANYONE****** think a little law will magically get rid of child abuse? And some of the biggest problems in history have been SPOILED BRATS! So there isn't even really a tie between punishment and abuse in the next generation.
        I agree with you Steve. The abuse I suffered as a child had nothing to do with being spanked or not spanked. It was the at the hands of another relative so what my parents did for discipline didn't matter. Spanking often has next to nothing to do with child abuse.

        Bonnie
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        • Profile picture of the author Mikaedi88
          Originally Posted by marketingva View Post

          I agree with you Steve. The abuse I suffered as a child had nothing to do with being spanked or not spanked. It was the at the hands of another relative so what my parents did for discipline didn't matter. Spanking often has next to nothing to do with child abuse.

          Bonnie

          So true marketingva, those that oppose spanking as a form of correction confuse the two..
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    Caveat. I'm talking below about Britain and not anywhere else where I have no insight.

    When I was younger, if I so much as thought of swearing at someone out of the house or at school, I'd get a slap, then I'd get taken home where my Mum would give me many slaps.

    I learned from that.

    Now, I walk through where I live and the kids can call me anything they like, if I so much as lift my hand I'd be arrested for assault of a child.

    So the kid learns that he can say what he likes, when he likes to whomever he likes.

    He's protected now by the law.

    I could tell him off but he's already told me to f*** off, I suspect I'd get the same if I told him off for it.

    Schools? Please don't get me started on that one.

    Regarding child abuse, I appreciate a small minority were at risk but letting every child know they can swear, steal and shit on their own door steps, isn't really in my mind, in Britain at least, much good for the rest of society.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mikaedi88
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      Caveat. I'm talking below about Britain and not anywhere else where I have no insight.

      True enough Richard..here's something I'll never forget..

      When I was younger, if I so much as thought of swearing at someone out of the house or at school, I'd get a slap, then I'd get taken home where my Mum would give me many slaps.

      I learned from that.

      Now, I walk through where I live and the kids can call me anything they like, if I so much as lift my hand I'd be arrested for assault of a child.

      So the kid learns that he can say what he likes, when he likes to whomever he likes.

      He's protected now by the law.

      I could tell him off but he's already told me to f*** off, I suspect I'd get the same if I told him off for it.

      Schools? Please don't get me started on that one.

      Regarding child abuse, I appreciate a small minority were at risk but letting every child know they can swear, steal and shit on their own door steps, isn't really in my mind, in Britain at least, much good for the rest of society.

      The same would be true in any country really, we have the same problem here in NZ where kids can say and do whatever they like..

      Years ago when my younger kids were still at primary/junior School, a lot of the kids at the School knew me through my own kids..
      I was doing some voluntary work at the School when this little 8 year old came running up to me, what he said sure angered me at the time as this boy was so proud of himself..he said..
      "Hey Uncle Mike, guess what, I made Miss cry"

      I ask this lad why, this was his answer..
      "I punched her in the face"

      My reaction was, I knelt down and looked this little kid in the eye and told him matter of fact..
      "If you were my Son, you would find yourself over my lap, and your backside spanked good"

      This kid eye's were as big as saucers as he had never been corrected before, I actually felt sorry for the boy really..


      WHOOPS I THINK I MAY HAVE BROKEN THE RULES IF THIS SUBJECT IS CONSIDERED POLITICAL
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikaedi88
    I agree 100% with you HeySal...I wander whether most feel the same, but things get all mucked up when those with apparently good intentions want to stop child abuse, they confuse the two..

    In our country we have had some really horrific child abuse cases, even after the law was passed..I suspect that those who abuse their kids or other kids have always used abusive methods rather than spanking.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I favor tar and feathers over spanking.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      LOL Travlinguy!

      How about the eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth method?

      You know, if a child is found playing with matches, you hold a match between their finger and thumb with yours over theirs, light it and wait til it burns them a tad, then blow it out.

      Or if they kick another kid in the shin, you kick them in the shin. If they bite a kid, you bite them. If they pull someone's hair, you pull theirs?

      I kid, I kid!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        LOL Travlinguy!

        How about the eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth method?

        You know, if a child is found playing with matches, you hold a match between their finger and thumb with yours over theirs, light it and wait til it burns them a tad, then blow it out.

        Or if they kick another kid in the shin, you kick them in the shin. If they bite a kid, you bite them. If they pull someone's hair, you pull theirs?

        I kid, I kid!

        Terra
        I read about a guy who was reported by neighbors to be spanking his kids too often. The cops responded to several calls and finally suggested the guy get a pet to abuse. So he did just that. Now, when he gets the urge, he spanks his monkey. :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          . Now, when he gets the urge, he spanks his monkey. :rolleyes:
          I am so not going there! Lol!

          Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          I read about a guy who was reported by neighbors to be spanking his kids too often. The cops responded to several calls and finally suggested the guy get a pet to abuse. So he did just that. Now, when he gets the urge, he spanks his monkey. :rolleyes:
          It might have been cheaper to buy a seasonal zoo pass.
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        • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          .... :rolleyes:
          I couldn't even quote that, it was so bad
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    They should do dicipline like in the manga and anime akira.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    More than ten years ago, I saw that the issue of physical punishment somehow became an issue in ideological divides. How many people of whatever beliefs even have the same definition of what constitutes corporal punishment? I also wonder how many people of whatever beliefs regarding physical punishment of a child base their opinion on actual research and evidence, not just opinion?

    Straying from those questions...in my own experience (anecdotal, not scientific), unremitting psychological abuse is very damaging and often quite invisible to outsiders but can cause lifelong harm. Yet, I cannot fathom that any law, however phrased, would do any good or control it in any way.
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