Friends That Expect Free Services

by Greg71
22 replies
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I am wondering how other people handle the issue of friends that repeatedly give you work but never pay you anything.

In my case, because i know how to set up Wordpress sites, html, css etc, it's "can you set up a website for me..." or "I just need these photos put on there...", you get the idea. These little tasks take an hour or two. Setting up a site is 5 hours at least with theme design, configuration etc.

I currently have 3 friends loading me up with stuff to do, to the point where i am stopping any further free work. I wouldn't mind if i was getting paid to do this stuff, as i'd have bit of side income.

My spare time, which i want to use to do my own projects and learn I.M., is taken up by other people's ideas and projects. I have told one already and he's telling me it's not very Christian, what have i done (i replicated his business website that he paid 2k for and put it on Wordpress for zero payment - took 10 hours) and so on.

Has this happened to you?
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Some "friend" you have there. Real Christian. Very appreciative of what you've done so far for free.

    (You are being taken advantage of.)

    You have 24 hours in the day like everyone else. Only 24 hours. If you spend them doing free services, you don't earn any money.

    What you're running into is the Budget problem in selling: if you trade your expertise and work for less than what you believe you deserve, you are going to get upset. Feel resentful. But...it's your fault, because you chose to take on the 'client' at those terms.

    You have the choice.

    If it makes you feel better, you can offer "coupons" to your friends--perhaps for 2 hours of free work a month, and they choose how to spend it. Or a discounted friend rate.

    When you do work for free, make sure you believe and feel it is a true giveaway; that you are happily providing your expertise with nothing expected in return. Do not do this if you are overworked, or have too little work--though if you have absolutely nothing going on at the time, this activity could be the mental kickstarter to attract more work to you.

    To control your time, you need to apply the 'throttling' principle. Allocate so many hours a month to free work if you like, under the conditions above...and when they run out, you stop. Explain this to your friends before you start their work (this is why the coupon idea is a good one--it naturally throttles the time spent on unpaid work because you limit the number you hand out). And you are going to have to have the conversation with each friend you've done free work for so far: "I know I've done a lot of free work for you in the past, and I hope you appreciate it. However, I am now at a point in my business where I cannot afford to do that any longer. Here is the way I can continue to help you going forward..." You need to 'reset' their expectations.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    I agree with what Jason said.

    However another way to look at it, since it seems you are still learning the ropes yourself, is that it's valuable experience. Most of this stuff you learn not by reading a book but by actually doing it. If you can change your thinking along these lines then you can use them as case studies in a sense. See if you can get traffic to them. See if you can get an email list going.

    But, whatever you do, don't neglect your own work and your own family for any friendship.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg71
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      I agree with what Jason said.

      However another way to look at it, since it seems you are still learning the ropes yourself, is that it's valuable experience. Most of this stuff you learn not by reading a book but by actually doing it. If you can change your thinking along these lines then you can use them as case studies in a sense. See if you can get traffic to them. See if you can get an email list going.

      But, whatever you do, don't neglect your own work and your own family for any friendship.

      Mark
      I used to think like that, but i can do that stuff on my own sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg71
        "That shouldn't be too much, did you want me to email you an estimate?"

        That's gold, I'll use that.
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        • Profile picture of the author BizLadi
          Originally Posted by Greg71 View Post

          "That shouldn't be too much, did you want me to email you an estimate?"

          That's gold, I'll use that.
          I was having the same problem w/ people wanting to to "fix up a little wordpress site." I now tell them I don't touch WP for less than $________. I fill in the blank with an amount that makes it worthwhile to deal with them - they never agree so I no longer do free setups. Same applies to all of the other skills I've learned along the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    Greg,

    Excellent question. This is a situation that most of us run into at one time or another.

    Jason and Mark have very good advice for you. Both of these guys know their stuff.

    One thing to realize is that this is a "Greg problem" more than anything else. I'm not knocking you but recommending that you shore up your business communication skills.

    There are pleasant side-effects with this: Your self-image will go up. Others will have a more professional opinion of you and your business. You will be able to more effectively handle resource-vampires. The number of those vampires will drop off dramatically.

    My comments are in blue...

    Originally Posted by Greg71 View Post

    I am wondering how other people handle the issue of friends that repeatedly give you work but never pay you anything.

    I can only give you a hot potato if you take it. Quit taking it!


    In my case, because i know how to set up Wordpress sites, html, css etc, it's "can you set up a website for me..." or "I just need these photos put on there...", you get the idea. These little tasks take an hour or two. Setting up a site is 5 hours at least with theme design, configuration etc.

    "That shouldn't be to much. Did you want me to email you an estimate?"


    I currently have 3 friends loading me up with stuff to do, to the point where i am stopping any further free work. I wouldn't mind if i was getting paid to do this stuff, as i'd have bit of side income.

    Smart.

    My spare time, which i want to use to do my own projects and learn I.M., is taken up by other people's ideas and projects.

    Do not tell them why you are busy with your business.

    I have told one already and he's telling me it's not very Christian,

    I will handle this b^stard in another post.

    what have i done (i replicated his business website that he paid 2k for and put it on Wordpress for zero payment - took 10 hours) and so on.

    Has this happened to you?
    Good luck,

    Joe Mobley

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Stop choosing to be a door mat for your friends. Say "no" and mean it. No further explanation except "I don't have time" is necessary.

      Someone who would question your religion because you won't give him your time - is a user, not a friend. You teach people how to treat you - retrain your friends.

      If a friend wanted photos put online - I'd show him how. That would take only a few minutes. I wouldn't do the work for him. If a friend wants to build his own site - point him to a good tutorial to help him do it himself.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Accuracy, brevity and a little "tude" thrown in. I like it!

        William of Ockham would approve.

        Joe Mobley

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Stop choosing to be a door mat for your friends. Say "no" and mean it. No further explanation except "I don't have time" is necessary.

        Someone who would question your religion because you won't give him your time - is a user, not a friend. You teach people how to treat you - retrain your friends.

        If a friend wanted photos put online - I'd show him how. That would take only a few minutes. I wouldn't do the work for him. If a friend wants to build his own site - point him to a good tutorial to help him do it himself.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          For some reason, I got up with a lot of 'tude today:p
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I'm not a religious man, but I believe there Biblical passages
    indicating it's ok to get paid for your work? (Can't get religious
    here anyway.)

    Gotta stop volunteering in the first place. Perhaps offer
    friends, family, and referrals some discount like a lot of other
    businesses.

    Keep things how they are with the one's you've started
    with, or risk losing the friendship.

    I never expect free or discounts from friends.
    (I don't do business with my family. Tried. We
    just are not aligned the same.)

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg71
      Those are all very good replies and I appreciate the peer support. I am taking it all on board.

      Yes, the bible says that "the labourer is worthy of his hire" and "money answers all things".

      I have a few paying clients, but I stopped chasing website work as I found it time-consuming and not worth the couple of hundred I was asking.

      These are people that approach me, I'm just soft with people that's all. But I've reached the point where I am over it. If they want my help they can pay, otherwise I'm going to the beach.

      I live 5 minutes from Dee Why beach in Sydney. How I do love to drink coffee by the seaside in my spare time (I work a full time job - I need rest).

      Thanks for the advice, I needed to see if I was being selfish I guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I almost always do things for my friends for free.
    One word.
    Karma.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I almost always do things for my friends for free.
      One word.
      Karma.
      Kim has a point. Many people were willing to give up their hard earned profits - profits that should have gone to THEIR family and THEIR bank account - for a "friend" that actually was just an online friend. A lot of time went into it as well - time that should have been spent on their own businesses.

      http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ot-kidney.html

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        I think we should be kind and generous to family and friends - but I think you have to draw the line somewhere - karma or not.
        I think if all you are doing is helping out family and friends and it is depleting all your time and all your energy, then that is not good.

        Sometimes it is ok to just say no - and no one should bring religion into it - or make you feel guilty in any way - that is just wrong I think.

        why is it that the kindest and most generous people I know are the ones who are continually used and abused by others? Are kind people seen as weak, somehow?
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg71
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I almost always do things for my friends for free.
      One word.
      Karma.
      I have, but it just keeps coming. Next time you fuel your car up or buy groceries, try paying for it with karma.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't think anyone is saying never do a favor for anyone. There does come a time that friends expect just too much, though. There's another way that is sometimes extremely helpful - especially when friends have skills you need. It's called barter.

    When I started getting swamped, I would tell friends - oh I'm so glad to hear from you...I'm getting swamped under and could use help with xxx (their skillset), too - so I'd be glad to do this for you if you could do xx for me in exchange.

    You'd be surprised how fast the users run for the hills when they hear they have to earn your work - yet what you have suggested is more than fair, so they really have no room to complain about it. They most certainly couldn't slam you on religious merits if they weren't willing to pitch in to help you out while asking you to do for them. I've gotten my car fixed more than once using barter - and painting, and a porch fixed, so my time, while I didn't get paid, was very well spent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I simply say "I can't afford to do it for free because it takes time away from what I do to earn money. I can give you a "friends" discount though. Most will understand that. Some will be happy to get a discount, some will move on. Of course, the discount is optional. It does make the unexpected outcome easier to take.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Originally Posted by Greg71 View Post

    I am wondering how other people handle the issue of friends that repeatedly give you work but never pay you anything.

    In my case, because i know how to set up Wordpress sites, html, css etc, it's "can you set up a website for me..." or "I just need these photos put on there...", you get the idea. These little tasks take an hour or two. Setting up a site is 5 hours at least with theme design, configuration etc.

    I currently have 3 friends loading me up with stuff to do, to the point where i am stopping any further free work. I wouldn't mind if i was getting paid to do this stuff, as i'd have bit of side income.

    My spare time, which i want to use to do my own projects and learn I.M., is taken up by other people's ideas and projects. I have told one already and he's telling me it's not very Christian, what have i done (i replicated his business website that he paid 2k for and put it on Wordpress for zero payment - took 10 hours) and so on.

    Has this happened to you?

    I had something similar happen recently, though I wouldn't call the guy a friend. He's more of a forum acquaintance in another niche forum where I hang out sometimes.

    Over a period of several months back in 2010 I saw him giving away great information for free that I felt he could be selling. He was making videos, answering questions in detail and really positioned himself as THE go-to guy on this particular topic.

    One day I replied to one of his posts and told him that he should build his own site and start sending visitors there. That way he can monetize them. He asked me what he needed to do, so I wrote up a long, step-by-step post with detailed instructions.

    A couple months later I noticed that he was taking my advice and had bought the domain I'd recommended. I thought that was cool and left it at that. I figured I'd see how it goes.

    Well, I happened to notice a post he'd made in the forum awhile later and decided to visit his site. I was extremely impressed! The site was professionally designed and he has a staff of writers that are all volunteers! He brags that he's syndicated content all over the world, and many other things. He really went all out.

    Anyway, I sent him a PM congratulating him back in October. I've seen several of his posts on the forum since then but he never replied to me - until last week. He said "I just saw your post". I'm thinking to myself "yeah, right.

    The guy wanted more advice. He said he'd spent a lot of his own money and wanted to recoup his funds. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how he'd possibly spent that much money, especially with a staff that was working for free!

    I replied to his email and told him I'd be happy to help him but my fee would be $250.00 for the first hour and $100.00 per hour afterward, which is pretty cheap.

    He replied a bit later and sniveled again about how much he'd already spent. He said he'd hold onto my information for future reference. Oh, and he said "by the way, would you be interested in writing for my site?" He also asked for my phone number so he could call and chat sometime.

    I'm thinking that this guy really has a lot of nerve. I politely declined both requests.

    Actually, I am a Christian too. God is the most important thing in my life, but that doesn't mean that I'll allow people to trod on me. I'll almost always help people out if I can, especially if they have no means at all, but there will come a point when I'm not afraid to say "enough is enough" if I feel like someone is trying to take advantage of me.

    I highly recommend that you do the same. Be respectful, but firm. You only have a certain amount of time every day and your family deserves as much of that as possible. If you're going to be taken away from them to do work for someone, friend or not, you need to be compensated.

    God bless you. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      I get requests from friends. If it's only a few minutes..I'll do it once. Something that I have been told myself that makes sense is this;

      "That's how I make my living". It speaks volumes. are you a friend and want me to help you move? Sure. Pick you up because you had an accident? Sure.

      Create ten videos promoting your business? "That's how I make my living".


      I have an HVAC guy that works part time for me. We have become good friends. But if I call him and say that my hot water heater needs service? $85 an hour. And I'm glad to pay it.

      Anyone who takes offence that you charge for something that is work to you...isn't your friend. Friends don't take advantage of others.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Anyone who takes offence that you charge for something that is work to you...isn't your friend. Friends don't take advantage of others.
        Says it all.

        If someone's trying to take advantage of you, no matter how you describe them, they're not a friend.

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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Greg,
    I just answered your original question. That's all.
    I understand your position,and have been there also.
    Maybe because of my situation I feel a self obligation to do more.

    I'm not going into details but because of my willingness to help others , I am here today.

    I made many friends here ion the WF by seeing posts from people that needed help and if I could do it, I would message them and do it for them. Asking nothing in return.

    I still do today.

    I host several friends websites on my hosting account. I have the space so why not?

    Now of course I see your position,and understand it.
    There can be times when friends cross the line in expecting free help,and you do sometimes have to draw the line.

    And your right, I've et found a store that wil accept my karma check.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg71
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Greg,
      I just answered your original question. That's all.
      I understand your position,and have been there also.
      Maybe because of my situation I feel a self obligation to do more.

      I'm not going into details but because of my willingness to help others , I am here today.

      I made many friends here ion the WF by seeing posts from people that needed help and if I could do it, I would message them and do it for them. Asking nothing in return.

      I still do today.

      I host several friends websites on my hosting account. I have the space so why not?

      Now of course I see your position,and understand it.
      There can be times when friends cross the line in expecting free help,and you do sometimes have to draw the line.

      And your right, I've et found a store that wil accept my karma check.
      By nature i like to help people as well, but balancing the universe on the other side are people that like taking advantage of people. Generally these people have problems not just with you, but various others as well.

      I'm just implementing some personal rules. I feel a bit liberated already.

      "Retrain your friends". What a nugget of wisdom that is.

      Thanks for your non-flaming, mature reply.
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