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CDC: First Ebola case confirmed in U.S

by SteveJohnson
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It's here...

First Ebola case confirmed in U.S.: CDC - Washington Times
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Just heard that on the news. Great.
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    • Profile picture of the author MakingSomeMoney
      yeah its all over youtube and the news of course lol
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        There was a story today that really brought the issues of this disease home to me

        Ebola-stricken Liberia is descending into economic hell - The Washington Post

        I think of sick people and I know there's a great fear of this disease but hadn't considered it could take down the economy of countries.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          4. The patient left Liberia on September 19, arrived in the US on September 20, and first developed symptoms on September 24. Ebola cannot be spread when someone is asymptomatic.
          5. The patient first sought care on September 26 and was admitted to the hospital on September 28.
          6. The patient was in Dallas to visit family.
          The news is that this case is under control - yet the CDC seems to be reacting strongly to it by sending a team immediately. I wonder how many people were exposed between developing symptoms on Sept 24 and going to the hospital on Sept 26?
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            The news is that this case is under control - yet the CDC seems to be reacting strongly to it by sending a team immediately. I wonder how many people were exposed between developing symptoms on Sept 24 and going to the hospital on Sept 26?
            So, if they're not contagious until they show symptoms, he would have been contagious on the 24th and had until the 28th to infect others, and that would be the minimum amount of time that he would have had to spread it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              That's the way I read it, too. I wonder what the CDC does - do they try to find everyone he was around and isolate them? Was he out in public in restaurants or shopping or swimming in a pool - picking up fruit or vegetables in a grocery?

              Was he in the hospital for a while before being isolated? I missed that part.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                That's the way I read it, too. I wonder what the CDC does - do they try to find everyone he was around and isolate them? Was he out in public in restaurants or shopping or swimming in a pool - picking up fruit or vegetables in a grocery?

                Was he in the hospital for a while before being isolated? I missed that part.
                The article was too short to be really informative ... didn't say if everyone he was in contact with will be quarantined for 3 weeks, and that of course, could be a lot of people, depending on what he did before feeling sick. Thank goodness it isn't airborne.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Speaking of airborne - quite a few countries have banned flights to and from the countries that are most affected by ebola. Maybe we should do that too?
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    Speaking of airborne - quite a few countries have banned flights to and from the countries that are most affected by ebola. Maybe we should do that too?
                    I think we should have done it already, but obviously we haven't. I don't understand why with such a large ebola outbreak, but there's a lot of things I don't understand.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      There were discussions about stopping the flights and also a suggestion that we quarantine people coming from those countries long enough to be certain they don't become contagious.

                      At the time we had that business conference in the works that brought in hundreds of people from Africa so D.C. didn't want to do it.

                      I don't know if this person was returning to the US - or visiting the US. Did it say on the news?
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        There were discussions about stopping the flights and also a suggestion that we quarantine people coming from those countries long enough to be certain they don't become contagious.

                        At the time we had that business conference in the works that brought in hundreds of people from Africa so D.C. didn't want to do it.

                        I don't know if this person was returning to the US - or visiting the US. Did it say on the news?
                        I'll be reading more of the stories, but the story I read said that he was visiting family, so it sounds like he came here to visit. I can think of no business conference important enough to put people at risk of a frightening contagious disease. That's what containment is all about. You come from an area with an ebola outbreak? Keep out until it's over.
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  I'm sorry but this has to be said.

                  How stupid is our country that we allow flights into Liberia or anywhere in Africa for that matter? And how stupid is this person to go there KNOWING that this horrible disease is spreading like wild fire?

                  Mankind is going to destroy itself because of its own stupidity long before anything else destroys it.

                  /rant
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          • Profile picture of the author bizbsocial
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            The news is that this case is under control - yet the CDC seems to be reacting strongly to it by sending a team immediately. I wonder how many people were exposed between developing symptoms on Sept 24 and going to the hospital on Sept 26?
            From what I understand there are 48 people on a list they've compiled that he came into contact with, that they are monitoring. And one of his nurses contracted it.

            ~Wendy
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            • Profile picture of the author waterotter
              Originally Posted by bizbsocial View Post

              From what I understand there are 48 people on a list they've compiled that he came into contact with, that they are monitoring. And one of his nurses contracted it.

              ~Wendy
              Hi Wendy, and welcome to the WF!

              As of today, two nurses have contracted the virus.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

    It was almost inevitable. The question is can it be contained? Also, how well can it be treated, especially if it becomes widespread?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It's not the first case:

    American Doctor with Ebola - Emory Hospital - Georgia

    US missionary with Ebola arrives at Nebraska Hospital.

    Stories from Reuters --

    Just check out all the things going on in the US on the global incidence map. Hey - in the states we have plague, we have anthrax, several new viruses, Equine Meningitus that is transmittable to humans. We've got some new weird virus going on, and all sorts of really scary stuff.

    There are countries that are now quarantining ebola areas - nobody in or out. It's about time. I'm not going to panick yet. We actually need a few cases to get our med facilities up to speed with how to deal with it. We still have a LOT of illegals coming over the South border..........and if you think they're all just Mexicans, you're out of touch. This could get ugly. It could just peter out with the ebola outbreaks starting to be quarantined.

    Here's a link to the global incidence maps - you can choose all sorts of things to check out - forest fires, health, hazmat incidences, etc and so on. The Texas case isn't on the map yet.


    http://outbreaks.globalincidentmap.com/home.php

    It's not a bad idea to learn how to keep your immune system on max right now.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      It's not the first case:

      American Doctor with Ebola - Emory Hospital - Georgia

      US missionary with Ebola arrives at Nebraska Hospital.

      Stories from Reuters --

      Just check out all the things going on in the US on the global incidence map. Hey - in the states we have plague, we have anthrax, several new viruses, Equine Meningitus that is transmittable to humans. We've got some new weird virus going on, and all sorts of really scary stuff.

      ...

      Here's a link to the global incidence maps - you can choose all sorts of things to check out - forest fires, health, hazmat incidences, etc and so on. The Texas case isn't on the map yet.

      It's not a bad idea to learn how to keep your immune system on max right now.
      American Doctor with Ebola - Emory Hospital - Georgia

      US missionary with Ebola arrives at Nebraska Hospital.
      I don't worry nearly as much about the cases arriving that we were expecting and went directly to the isolation ward of a hospital. It's the people arriving that we aren't whisking away to isolation that worry me. As for immune system ... ha ... what immune system? I barely have one. I wouldn't survive a case of ebola, but I'm more worried about the rest of the population and my family of course.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    There was one suspected case in Sacramento, too - but turned out to be a false alarm. At least it was paid attention to well and right away. I worry about what's coming over our south border. There's a reason for legal immigration, and health screening is probably one of the most important of them. The stuff on the incident map is there because it's possible that bio-terrorism is the reason it's here. There's a lot of other stuff going on in health that doesn't hit the map because it's natural and normal for it to be here.

    I keep my immune system cranked on high at all times. With the population as dense (lol, I love that word - so ambiguous), as mobile, and as generally sick as it is now, I don't need to catch even a cold because some clod is running around sick in public.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    So where's the other 100 people that was on the same plane back to the US?
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      So where's the other 100 people that was on the same plane back to the US?
      Yikes. Spooky question for sure, Yukon. Hopefully they got him before he got a chance to "spread the wealth." That's something I didn't think of looking up when I was looking into this issue - is whether you are contagious or not before symptoms show. Of course - that might still leave hundreds on the ground that might be precariously situated depending on where this guy went and when after landing. I guess about all we can do about it is to watch for "further updates".
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      So where's the other 100 people that was on the same plane back to the US?
      Allegedly, you are not contagious until you have symptoms. That's what they say anyway. I bolded everything that bothers me about the story. A lack of transparency about the patient and who and how many he has contacted. By now, they should know exactly how many he has had contact with, other than just being in a general crowd and why the secrecy about his identity and nationality? And why wasn't he taken to one of the four isolation units specifically set up for Ebola patients, rather than dumping him in a facility that does not have one. The hospital of course says they are well prepared, but that's hog wash to me. That's like a hospital saying that you come to a hospital to get well, when it's fairly common to get very ill from viruses and other things that spread in a hospital when not handled correctly.

      The unidentified patient was critically ill and has been in isolation at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital since Sunday, officials said.

      Health authorities have begun tracking down family and friends who may have had close contact with the patient and could be at risk for becoming ill. But officials said there are no other suspected cases in Texas.

      At the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Tom Frieden said the patient left Liberia on Sept. 19, arrived the next day to visit family and started feeling ill four or five days later. He said it was not clear how the person became infected.

      Frieden said there was no risk to anyone on the airplane because the patient had no symptoms at the time of the flight.

      Ebola symptoms can include fever, muscle pain, vomiting and bleeding, and can appear as long as 21 days after exposure to the virus. The disease is not contagious until symptoms begin, and it takes close contact with bodily fluids to spread.

      "The bottom line here is that I have no doubt we will control this importation, or this case of Ebola, so that it does not spread widely in this country," Frieden told a news conference.

      "It is certainly possible that someone who had contact with this individual, a family member or other individual, could develop Ebola in the coming weeks," he added. "But there is no doubt in my mind that we will stop it here."

      Frieden updated President Barack Obama on the patient and the public health investigation, the White House said.

      Frieden said he believed the case also marked the first time this strain of Ebola has been diagnosed outside of West Africa.

      Four American aid workers who became infected while volunteering in West Africa have been flown back to the U.S. for treatment after they became sick. They were cared for in special isolation facilities at hospitals in Atlanta and Nebraska. Also, a U.S. doctor exposed to the virus in Sierra Leone is under observation in a similar facility at the National Institutes of Health.

      The U.S. has only four such isolation units. But asked whether the patient would be moved to one of those specialty facilities, Frieden said there was no need and virtually any hospital can provide the proper care and infection control.

      Dr. Edward Goodman, epidemiologist for Texas Health Presbyterian, said the hospital had a plan for handling Ebola should a suspected case emerge and was "well prepared" to provide care.

      After arriving in the U.S. on Sept. 20, the patient began to develop symptoms on Sept. 24 and initially sought care two days later, Frieden said. The patient was admitted to the hospital on Sept. 28, when Texas Health Presbyterian put him under strict isolation. Blood tests by Texas health officials and the CDC separately confirmed an Ebola diagnosis on Tuesday.

      Frieden would not reveal the patient's nationality.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Allegedly, you are not contagious until you have symptoms.
        The local news said a person can go 21 days before showing symptoms.

        Imagine how many people a person could come into contact over a 21 day period. Now multiply that times however many people were on the same plane as the guy that tested positive.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          The local news said a person can go 21 days before showing symptoms.

          Imagine how many people a person could come into contact over a 21 day period. Now multiply that times however many people were on the same plane as the guy that tested positive.
          If you are not showing symptoms over that 21 day period, you are not spreading the disease. You spread the disease when you are showing symptoms. I was reading about the airplane and because the virus is not airborne, catching from someone who has it just isn't that easy.

          Just don't go exchanging any body fluids with people on airplanes and you're probably going to be ok, unless they sneeze right in your face. This disease isn't that easy to catch. It's very frightening disease but HIV and Malaria and Tuberculosis are far more lethal than Ebola
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            If you are not showing symptoms over that 21 day period, you are not spreading the disease. You spread the disease when you are showing symptoms. I was reading about the airplane and because the virus is not airborne, catching from someone who has it just isn't that easy.

            Just don't go exchanging any body fluids with people on airplanes and you're probably going to be ok, unless they sneeze right in your face. This disease isn't that easy to catch. It's very frightening disease but HIV and Malaria and Tuberculosis are far more lethal than Ebola
            That's a long flight to the US, you can bet everyone on that plane used the same restroom, touched the same door handle, half probably didn't even consider washing their hands. That's contact.

            What do you mean it's not easy to get, the guy tested positive. Does it get any easier?
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              That's a long flight to the US, you can bet everyone on that plane used the same restroom, touched the same door handle, half probably didn't even consider washing their hands. That's contact.

              What do you mean it's not easy to get, the guy tested positive. Does it get any easier?
              I consider a disease which requires contact and swapping of contaminated body fluids not easy to get. You keep mentioning the airplane. He was not contagious on the airplane, so he could have licked the doorknob and it wouldn't have mattered. He didn't show symptoms until several days after he arrived in Texas. At the time he showed symptoms, he was contagious.

              [quote=HeySal;9566602]Suzanne - um - the full text links are right there.

              I didn't say actually "airborne". I was talking about aerosol. The difference is how far something can travel in air. Your assessment "unless someone sneezed on you" - that's aerosol. That is what research is pointing to. You only read the abstract? I don't think abstracts cover much?

              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Anyhow - the virus has been shown to be aerosol to at least some primates. Not in other animals - but since there's been little study of the active disease they don't know for sure if "primates" is close enough to us for it to be considered aerosol transmittable. I wouldn't take chances with it if I have a choice.
              And it is a virus. How many people could be effected if it mutates?
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              If the article only shows if Javascript is enabled, then that's why I saw only an abstract, but you said that an aerosol virus could morph into an airborne virus. It could probably also morph into Godzilla, but I'm not going to worry about that until it happens. Ebola is bad enough without all the would be could bes thrown in.
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Questions we need to be open to watching out for at the very least.

              As far as what is going on in this country health-wise. Ebola isn't the only really nasty and potentially fatal virus running around the states. This is a new one. It's being around 70% deadly over there, but we've had 4 victims who have all survived. Now we have one who was a surprise. We'll just have to see if he survives, too, huh?

              As far as being worried about my health. I'm not overly so -- but when I go somewhere and see an employee who is obviously sick and should be at home rather than coughing and sneezing on everything they touch................I just leave. There's more than one reason I like to live in low population densities.
              I agree with the above also. I avoid public places during flu season and if a lot of colds are going around. My main concern isn't my own health ... it's my grandchildren in schools and a daughter who is an emergency room nurse.

              I personally don't appreciate the fact that people from ebola active regions are able to come here unless they are escorted into isolation, as the other patients were ... at our invitation.
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                I consider a disease which requires contact and swapping of contaminated body fluids not easy to get. You keep mentioning the airplane. He was not contagious on the airplane,
                I don't believe that.

                I doubt he got ebola after getting off the plane.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  I doubt he got ebola after getting off the plane.
                  He was exposed before flying - but had no symptoms until days after the flight.

                  What EVERY EXPERT on ebola says is:

                  UNTIL you are showing symptoms, you are not contagious. He was here for days before he began to show symptoms. At that point he was contagious. No symptoms on the plane - he wasn't contagious on the plane.

                  For years, the movie industry has used "ebola" as the go-to-word for any story about epidemics, etc. Now it's necessary to know what this strain is and how it is transmitted - when it is contagious....and when it isn't.
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              • Profile picture of the author YaloioHosting
                Well, atleast the nurse who got sick with ebola for taking care of an ebola patient got cured so there is absolutely full hope for human race to linger
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  • Profile picture of the author SanwalC
    This was inevitable. I knew it from the start, that they were gonna screw up. God bless us all!
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by SanwalC View Post

      This was inevitable. I knew it from the start, that they were gonna screw up. God bless us all!
      They sure did let it roll for awhile before they started quarantining areas.

      Of course - Monsanto stands to make a LOT of big money if we get flaming outbreaks. They have a lot of money sunk into that vaccine that pharm is making. I have no doubt it will flame here for no other reason. They have to do something. The world is completely rejecting their GMO poisoning. They also just bought out a geoengineering firm and now the whole world other than the States is illegalizing private sectors practicing geoengineering. Not being a good time for them. They're going to have to bank on a pandemic.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    4 flown back? On the outbreak map both hospitals are listed, but Reuters only reported one patient at each. WTF is going on?

    At least Texas is defending their border - California is just letting people walk in at will. Exactly how many strolling over are from Africa - and from infected areas? This should be of grave concern to everyone. The population in S. California is about the largest and densest in the country. Not a good place to have some illegal with ebola strolling into. If that person were to get into mass transit in LA during a rush hour, we could have a zombie apocalypse on our hands within a few weeks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It's a little late to start worrying about the border...but I think it's something like this or a major terrorist attack that will finally make D.C. finally close the borders. For now, it isn't a priority for them.

      There have been at least four U.S. citizens returned with ebola on special flights to the US for treatment. That's been over several weeks time. What is impressive is that all patients treated here survived the disease.

      We'll know within 3 weeks if it's stopped or not - that's the incubation period, isn't it? There are different levels of isolation wards perhaps but most hospitals have areas reserved for treating communicable diseases. The worst thing that can happen is for the public to panic.

      I expect emergency rooms in that geographic area will be busy with people who have any cold or flu symptoms.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    Man in Dallas With Ebola Had Been Sent Home From Hospital
    A man with Ebola in Dallas was initially sent home from the hospital with antibiotics after seeking treatment for an unknown illness, officials said.
    Texas already screwed this up. Let's see ... sent home with antibiotics after seeking treatment for unknown illness. What's wrong with that picture? For one, treating an illness with antibiotics without knowing what illness you're treating is idiotic. Antibiotics don't cure viruses and apparently, they just hand them out like candy in Texas if they don't know what you've got.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      What really bothers me is the lack of information. I don't need to know this person's name - but I would like to know whether he was allowed a visa to visit here or whether, as one report says, he was 'moving to the US".

      Are we handing out visa to the US in Liberia? Is that a good idea right now? Who is making those decisions?

      Frieden declined to answer whether the patient is a U.S. citizen. He also declined to say, clearly, whether the patient is a man, although he referred to the person as "he" on multiple occasions.


      "The patient was visiting family members and staying with family members who live in this country," he said at a news conference.


      However, the city of Dallas in a news release said the patient "moved to Dallas from Liberia a week ago."...


      ...Crew members who transported the patient to the hospital have been isolated, the chief of staff for Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings told CNN. None have shown symptoms of the disease so far.

      The ambulance that carried the patient - ambulance # 37 --- was in use for two days after the transport but was adequately decontaminated, said Dallas city spokeswoman Sana Syed.
      Hope that bolded part is right...and crew members wouldn't show symptoms 2 days later! I bet they are scared.

      Perhaps the worst thing about ebola is the sneaky way symptoms appear. From everything I read they look just like a cold or simple flu - so it's not unlikely doctors would say "go home and drink lots of fluids". If patient has any fever, the standard practice is "here's an antibiotic".

      Hospitals can't admit and isolate everyone with head cold symptoms but it does seem that if a patient said "I just arrived from LIBERIA" - someone should have said 'wait just a minute' and investigated further.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        What really bothers me is the lack of information. I don't need to know this person's name - but I would like to know whether he was allowed a visa to visit here or whether, as one report says, he was 'moving to the US".

        Are we handing out visa to the US in Liberia? Is that a good idea right now? Who is making those decisions?

        Hope that bolded part is right...and crew members wouldn't show symptoms 2 days later! I bet they are scared.

        Perhaps the worst thing about ebola is the sneaky way symptoms appear. From everything I read they look just like a cold or simple flu - so it's not unlikely doctors would say "go home and drink lots of fluids". If patient has any fever, the standard practice is "here's an antibiotic".

        Hospitals can't admit and isolate everyone with head cold symptoms but it does seem that if a patient said "I just arrived from LIBERIA" - someone should have said 'wait just a minute' and investigated further.
        That whole quote is disturbing. Visas from Liberia are foolish at the very least. Allowing travel to here from Liberia at all is foolish, or any other area with an ebola outbreak.

        There's potential here with the ambulance crew and their families and friends, the hospital crew that originally sent him home (and people they have had contact with), this unknown guy's family and friends and probably numerous other people to be at risk because some genius somewhere thinks that anyone who wants to come here from anywhere should be allowed to. With all the people that he has had contact with and their circle of contacts, there's potential for a real outbreak here.

        One of my daughters is an emergency room nurse. Really frightening that anyone can fly in from these places.
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    • Profile picture of the author LaLaLives
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Man in Dallas With Ebola Had Been Sent Home From Hospital


      Texas already screwed this up. Let's see ... sent home with antibiotics after seeking treatment for unknown illness. What's wrong with that picture? For one, treating an illness with antibiotics without knowing what illness you're treating is idiotic. Antibiotics don't cure viruses and apparently, they just hand them out like candy in Texas if they don't know what you've got.
      Not just Texas. Sadly, the candy-like dispensing of antibiotics has been going on for a long while. So long, in fact, that superbugs have now become resistant to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Here's something else disturbing.

    The Dallas case is breaking some of our ironclad assumptions. The CDC has a well-considered algorithm that places those returning from the three endemic West Africa countries—Sierra Leone, Guinea, and Liberia—into a measure of extra vigilance if and only if the person has had exposure to a known case of Ebola. Per the press conference, the Dallas case had no such exposure. He was not a health-care worker treating patients, nor was he from a family battling active disease. Of course, more facts may emerge that contradict today’s story—but today’s facts, if they hold up, mean that yesterday’s assumptions are no longer correct. Liberia may indeed be enough of a hotbed of Ebola that anyone arriving from the area will need to be considered for extra vigilance.

    ....

    Exposures to Ebola, however, seem to leave no room for error. Although we lack carefully performed studies, Kent Brantly, the physician who developed the disease and was airlifted to Atlanta, seemed to have no gross exposure to the disease, though he worked on an Ebola ward. Ditto for Nancy Writebol the other American flown back in that dramatic first wave. According to reports, they were mighty careful at every step, but just not careful enough.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      If someone says he has not been exposed to ebola - can we believe him?

      Think about a visit to the emergency room - water fountains, magazines to look through, hard surface seats that you touch and cough on - rest rooms - counters where you stand giving personal info to a clerk - door handles....

      Stopping at a convenience store along the way to or from the hospital - looking through OTC meds in a WM or drug store.

      The public message is calm and collected - but I'll bet behind the scenes, the CDC is very worried about this case.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        If someone says he has not been exposed to ebola - can we believe him?

        Think about a visit to the emergency room - water fountains, magazines to look through, hard surface seats that you touch and cough on - rest rooms - counters where you stand giving personal info to a clerk - door handles....

        Stopping at a convenience store along the way to or from the hospital - looking through OTC meds in a WM or drug store.

        The public message is calm and collected - but I'll bet behind the scenes, the CDC is very worried about this case.
        I don't think we can really believe the news from an organization that is trying to maintain cool and pretend that there is no cause for concern. Friedman said that he was in contact with a small handful of people. Turns out, he was in contact with an ambulance team, hospital staff when he had symptoms, 5 school age children from 4 different schools, and probably other relatives and friends that haven't yet been mentioned. That's way more than a handful of people.

        Five school-aged children in Texas may have been exposed to Ebola by the first patient diagnosed with the virus in the United States, officials said today.

        The children had contact with the patient and are being monitored at home, Texas Gov. Rick Perry said today in a press conference.

        "Let me assure you, these children have been identified and are being monitored," the governor said.

        "This is all hands on deck," Perry said.

        The country's top medical official who has vowed to stop Ebola "in its tracks" in the U.S., conceded today that it's "not impossible" that others will contract the disease.
        The five students who were in contact with the patient went to four different schools earlier in the week, but had no symptoms, officials said. Extra health workers and custodians will be on hand at those schools plus another nearby school that none of the children attended. The schools include three elementary schools, a middle school and a high school, officials said.
        The first Ebola patient diagnosed in the United States told relatives that he notified health care workers the first time he went to the hospital that he was visiting the U.S. from Liberia, the man's sister said Wednesday.

        Mai Wureh told The Associated Press that her brother, Thomas Eric Duncan, went to a Dallas emergency room on Friday and was sent home with antibiotics. He returned two days later after his condition worsened and was admitted to Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital.

        Dr. Mark Lester confirmed Wednesday that a nurse asked Duncan on his first visit whether he had been in an area affected by the Ebola outbreak that has killed thousands in West Africa, but that "information was not fully communicated throughout the whole team."

        A nine-member group of federal health
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Dr. Mark Lester confirmed Wednesday that a nurse asked Duncan on his first visit whether he had been in an area affected by the Ebola outbreak that has killed thousands in West Africa, but that "information was not fully communicated throughout the whole team."
          Translation: xxxx flows downhill - blame it on the nurse
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Translation: xxxx flows downhill - blame it on the nurse
            Talk about double talk:

            The patient's travel history, Dr. Mark Lester, executive president of Texas Health Resources, was not relayed to everyone who treated him. Asked if it was a misstep, Dr. Lester said no. "I would call that not factoring all the information in among the team that was present so that all the information wasn't present as they made their clinical decision," he somewhat awkwardly explained.
            Then there's my previous quote that said that this person had not been in contact with an ebola infected person in Liberia, so they didn't know how he got it. But this article says:

            CDC and Texas health officials are not giving details about the patient. But he would have to have been in close contact with someone who was sick with or died from Ebola in Liberia. Ebola spreads in bodily fluids such as blood, vomit or diarrhea. And those fluids have to get inside your body through the mouth, eyes or nose, or in a cut or via a needle stick. The virus doesn't spread in the air and it cannot persist on surfaces like flu viruses can.
            So which one is the truth, and can we really rely at all on what an infected person says? Don't want to start any conspiracy theories or such, but what if this man lied about when his symptoms actually started so that he could get medical care in the US, since we seem to have a better track record with ebola? Just a thought that crossed my mind.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              We can't rely on the person to tell us about exposure - because he may not know he WAS exposed while in Liberia. Someone sneezed - it landed on him...he might not have known he was exposed.

              We can't rely on the experts, either. They don't think this will spread but they won't know for sure until it either does or doesn't.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                We can't rely on the person to tell us about exposure - because he may not know he WAS exposed while in Liberia. Someone sneezed - it landed on him...he might not have known he was exposed.
                It doesn't appear that it is easily spread by coughing or sneezing unless someone who is sick coughs or sneezes directly on you and it hits your eyes, nose or mouth. It seems to me that the majority of people who get it are in direct contact with very ill people and are well aware that these people are very ill, so I still don't get where he said that he had no contact with anyone with ebola in Liberia, when the CDC says that direct contact is necessary.

                Here's how you can (and can't) get Ebola - Vox
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  A few minutes ago there was a report it has been found this person DID have contact with someone dying of ebola - days before coming to the US. According to a report a few minutes ago - he knew he had been exposed.

                  The question becomes whether he was able to come here quickly knowing he had been exposed - or whether this trip was previously planned.

                  If this is true - and he survives - he should be charged with a crime.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    A few minutes ago there was a report it has been found this person DID have contact with someone dying of ebola - days before coming to the US. According to a report a few minutes ago - he knew he had been exposed.

                    The question becomes whether he was able to come here quickly knowing he had been exposed - or whether this trip was previously planned.

                    If this is true - and he survives - he should be charged with a crime.
                    There you go, that's what I was thinking ... that this person knew he had contact and he had family over here to come to and put people here at risk to get the best medical care possible. I think it would be very difficult to come down with symptoms and say that you had ZERO contact with an infected person, because you have to have contact with their bodily fluids.

                    Another very disconcerting thing I just read is that the ebola virus was still detected in a "cured" person's semen 63 days after recovery. That puts it in a different light as well. The doctor in this article said, "Celebrate your recovery with a condom." Knowing that sexually transmitted diseases are very difficult to stop because human sexual behavior is difficult to change, WHO is going to see that this guy at the very least wears a condom after recovery, if he recovers? Who is in charge of that?

                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    Some strains are aerosol communicable. In fact, they are thinking because of the exponential spread of the disease they are experiencing it may be airborne.
                    Everything I've read, and I've read a lot today, says it is not airborne. That's what I was talking about with the coughing and sneezing thing. In one article a doctor is talking about getting it via coughing and sneezing and he said that is very rare and normally the care givers are the ones who are most likely to get it that way. These people would need to be close enough to you to sneeze or cough in your eyes, nose or mouth and that there's not much evidence to support getting infected say if the spit just lands on unbroken skin.

                    As for letting people in with this disease, I see no reason why people should be allowed to just pop on over from Liberia or the other infection sites until this subsides. I don't have a problem with denying whatever travel rights people think they have and I have ZERO confidence that the airports are capable of intelligent screening to keep sick people from traveling.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    A few minutes ago there was a report it has been found this person DID have contact with someone dying of ebola - days before coming to the US. According to a report a few minutes ago - he knew he had been exposed.

                    The question becomes whether he was able to come here quickly knowing he had been exposed - or whether this trip was previously planned.

                    If this is true - and he survives - he should be charged with a crime.
                    that's a little over the top - sick people are criminals now?


                    fact: ebola (and other diseases)can be cured with high doses of vitamin C - (main stream medicine don't want you to know this, of course ) just do your research
                    Can Vitamin C Cure Ebola?
                    and quoting from this source:
                    Ebola and Vitamin C: Is this Nutrient the Cure for Ebola? | EnergyFanatics.com
                    Below is some information from Dr. Robert Cathcart on how to use vitamin C to destroy the Ebola virus. The following paragraph is extracted from Web.Archive.org.
                    My experience with giving massive doses of ascorbic acid orally to over 30,000 patients and with giving intravenous sodium ascorbate to over 2,000 patients would indicate that with Ebola and other viral hemorrhagic fever diseases that intravenous sodium ascorbate should be used in doses beginning with at least 180 grams per 24 hours. If the fever is not controlled or the symptoms are not reduced, the dosage and the rate of administration should be increased until they are controlled. The doses of 180 grams per 24 hours would be administered in 3 bottles of lactated Ringer’s, D5W. or 1/2NS with 60 grams of sodium ascorbate added per 8 hours. Do not be afraid of increasing the rate of administration. When I give one to two of these bottles in the office I have them run in 2 to 3 hours each. However, when administered in a hospital, the administration should be constant, around the clock at the rate and amount to eliminate the symptoms. When I mention a rate that is administered in 24 hours, I mean just that, the rate. If the fever does not abate in the first 3 or 4 hours, the rate should be increased to whatever necessary to break the fever. However, when the fever and other symptoms abate then the rate of administration can be reduced.
                    so like Sal posted earlier - build up your immune systems - give yourself plenty of Vitamin C both in supplement and food form, and wash your hands after being in public and especially before you eat. Then stop giving in to the fear-mongering that is going on about this ebola outbreak. They just want to control you if you get fearful enough.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      sick people are criminals now
                      Yes - when they knowingly expose others to a deadly disease. It's been done before. People were incarcerated for knowingly exposing others to AIDS when that epidemic was raging. This man is now charged with a crime in his own country for lying on the exit form. At the least - if he lives - we need to send him back to his country.

                      ebola (and other diseases)can be cured with high doses of vitamin C
                      Amazing - we don't have to send soldiers and build hospitals - we can just send boatloads of vitamin C. Cathcart died in 2007 - but his quotes are trotted out with every viral epidemic or incident. If those "cures" had worked.....don't you think they would have worked by now?

                      High dose vitamin C can cure Ebola virus disease? Not so fast… – Respectful Insolence
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                      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        Yes - when they knowingly expose others to a deadly disease. It's been done before. People were incarcerated for knowingly exposing others to AIDS when that epidemic was raging. This man is now charged with a crime in his own country for lying on the exit form. At the least - if he lives - we need to send him back to his country.



                        Amazing - we don't have to send soldiers and build hospitals - we can just send boatloads of vitamin C. Cathcart died in 2007 - but his quotes are trotted out with every viral epidemic or incident. If those "cures" had worked.....don't you think they would have worked by now?

                        High dose vitamin C can cure Ebola virus disease? Not so fast… – Respectful Insolence
                        Many natural simple cures are always silenced and ridiculed. - there are simply too much profits to be made from sickness and that is the simple ugly truth whether you want to believe it or not.

                        So there is always going to be anti-natural cure propaganda.
                        And you ,of course, can believe what you want, just like I can. And I'll keep on taking my vitamin C too and outlive all of you - hehehe

                        oh and lighten up - I don't expect everyone to believe what I do just like you shouldn't expect me to clone your thoughts - let's embrace our differences rather than belittling them, ok?
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

                          Many natural simple cures are always silenced and ridiculed. - there are simply too much profits to be made from sickness and that is the simple ugly truth whether you want to believe it or not.

                          Yeah, I'm just waiting for those Ebola profits to come through.
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  It doesn't appear that it is easily spread by coughing or sneezing unless someone who is sick coughs or sneezes directly on you and it hits your eyes, nose or mouth. It seems to me that the majority of people who get it are in direct contact with very ill people and are well aware that these people are very ill, so I still don't get where he said that he had no contact with anyone with ebola in Liberia, when the CDC says that direct contact is necessary.

                  Here's how you can (and can't) get Ebola - Vox
                  Some strains are aerosol communicable. In fact, they are thinking because of the exponential spread of the disease they are experiencing it may be airborne. Since they are worried that it's going airborne, I'd say we need to consider the possibility, too. I've never heard anything anywhere claim that it's not aerosol.

                  Kay - I'm sorry, but when there's a global pandemic looming, I don't feel closing a border is a moot point. At all. I also feel that anywhere there is an outbreak, the economic hit needs to be taken and the area has to be quarantined. I hear people screaming about martial law, quarantine, and their "rights". If you want the right to catch something that has around a 70% chance of killing you, I guess go play in the sick camps. As for me - if ebola reaches my area, I'd like to see everything shut down and everyone at home for 3 weeks (Yay! vacation with actual rest attached) until it's positively contained. IF that would have been done in the first damned place like it should have, we wouldn't even be talking about this. But nooooooooooooo......people have a right to travel. And everyone else has a right to die because of that person's right.

                  FTS - If they didn't shut it down from the get, there's stuff going on behind the scenes and our safety isn't the consideration.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Remember in the late 80's - that warehouse they had 400 monkeys in (I can't remember what the reason was. Research maybe). When Ebola hit those monkeys, it started to take every one of them in that one room down. There was nothing but an air duct into the next room - yet the monkeys in the next room also contracted the virus. How? We are not being told the truth. I have seen many statements from medical researchers that have stated it is definitely aerosol (at least in some strains) and possibly air-borne. I would think any attempt to say it's not at least aerosol is nothing but an attempt to keep people from panicking. I also think it's a dangerous one. We need to know the truth about this one. If they want to see panick - let's see what happens when people don't know what the truth is and an area gets hit with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Here we go. When in doubt of what media tells us (for our own good, of course) --
    PubMed is our friend.
    Aerosol exposure to Zaire ebolavirus in thre... [Microbes Infect. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
    Lethal experimental infections of rhesus mo... [Int J Exp Pathol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI

    One main concern, too - is that just because a virus is not air-borne at the time, does not mean it can't morph into one that is.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Here we go. When in doubt of what media tells us (for our own good, of course) --
      PubMed is our friend.
      Aerosol exposure to Zaire ebolavirus in thre... [Microbes Infect. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
      Lethal experimental infections of rhesus mo... [Int J Exp Pathol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI

      One main concern, too - is that just because a virus is not air-borne at the time, does not mean it can't morph into one that is.
      These two tiny little abstracts did not prove that ebola is airborne. The virus was introduced in the monkey's respiratory system manually.

      The potential of aerogenic infection by Ebola virus was established by using a head-only exposure aerosol system. Virus-containing droplets of 0.8-1.2 microns were generated and administered into the respiratory tract of rhesus monkeys via inhalation. Inhalation of viral doses as low as 400 plaque-forming units of virus caused a rapidly fatal disease in 4-5 days.
      I remember very well, the Hot Zone story of Reston, VA and all the panic that created. I lived in Reston, VA for over 16 years. Been to the infamous monkey house that is now a Kinder Care many times. A real fiasco. Trying to scrub down the facility and kill the monkeys in a suburban area and hoping that the residents wouldn't notice these jokers in hazmat gear.

      Ebola 'Outbreak' in Virginia in 1990 exposed four workers to incurable virus | Daily Mail Online

      Reston’s Link to Ebola, Nearly 25 Years Later | Reston Now

      http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...reak/13860929/

      The Reston incident--along with an earlier Robin Cook novel of the same name--also became one of the inspirations for the 1995 Dustin Hoffman thriller Outbreak.

      Ebola is no longer thought to be an airborne virus; scientists say the disease can only be spread through direct contact with bodily fluids.
      Initial testing revealed something much worse: Ebola, specifically the Zaire strain, which had a 90 percent fatality rate in humans. Four workers at the quarantine facility tested positive for exposure to the virus.

      Amazingly, they never even got sick.

      Researchers eventually realized they were dealing with a different strain, one now known as Ebola-Reston. Though its appearance under a microscope is similar to the Zaire strain, Ebola-Reston is the only one of the five forms of Ebola not harmful to humans.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Don?t panic over Ebola in America - Vox
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Realistically - ebola is not going to "morph" overnight. What it is and how it is spread is frightening enough without imagining something worse.

      It has not become airborne, the virus itself it apparently fragile when left on a surface and that trait has saved us in the past from some bad stuff.

      There is no reason to panic but the 5 children who were exposed to this man attended 4 schools after exposure. They do not have symptoms but I'm sure parents from all of those schools are terrified and I would be, too.

      All of the promises won't reassure people until time has passed (3 weeks) with no new cases.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Derek -- are you around?

        What is this patent, exactly? What is it patenting? https://register.epo.org/application...22840&tab=main

        I'm not understanding exactly what we have grabbed patent rights on here. Some people on FB are screaming we have patents on the virus (as in manmade) - but I'm not seeing that in this at all. Not sure what it is, though. Is this some right to reproduce the viruses or mutations of it for research?
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Derek -- are you around?

          What is this patent, exactly? What is it patenting? https://register.epo.org/application...22840&tab=main

          I'm not understanding exactly what we have grabbed patent rights on here. Some people on FB are screaming we have patents on the virus (as in manmade) - but I'm not seeing that in this at all. Not sure what it is, though. Is this some right to reproduce the viruses or mutations of it for research?
          I'd like to hear from Derek, too.

          I suppose it could be for nefarious purposes, but I think those people would just do that in the dark.
          Not go with public patent filing - which could lead to journalist investigating and getting someone to talk - thereby blowing the conspiracy.

          I think it's for research purposes, to weaken a virus for research, to find a vaccine, to be able to publish
          and share research rather than control the research.

          On the darker side, perhaps to allow a big pharma company exclusivity on the vaccine.

          us20120251502 - What is the purpose of this ebola-related patent of the US government? - Ask Patents

          Can you patent a disease? - Health - CBC News
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

            I'd like to hear from Derek, too.

            I suppose it could be for nefarious purposes, but I think those people would just do that in the dark.
            Not go with public patent filing - which could lead to journalist investigating and getting someone to talk - thereby blowing the conspiracy.

            I think it's for research purposes, to weaken a virus for research, to find a vaccine, to be able to publish
            and share research rather than control the research.

            On the darker side, perhaps to allow a big pharma company exclusivity on the vaccine.

            us20120251502 - What is the purpose of this ebola-related patent of the US government? - Ask Patents

            Can you patent a disease? - Health - CBC News

            I think it's research or vaccine related, too. Monsanto just dropped a wad on that vaccine and pharm, so I'm not sure how they can be cross patenting on that or what's going on. This is getting very bizarre.

            There are several strains of Ebola and some of them act different than others, too. People keep reading it's not aerosol transmitted, but PubMed studies showed it is - but is that the same strain that's going around? The exponential rates of infection in one or two regions suggests it is aerosol. Infections don't explode that rapidly when they are "have to have contact" that I've ever heard of. I saw once on the CDC website that it's thought possibly to be aerosol transmittable but can't find that now, and still don't know if it's the same strain they were talking about as the one that's going around - which is Zaire I believe?? Correct me on that if I'm wrong.

            Anyhow - I'm not real scared of it. For now anyhow. There's a few other viruses going around the states now that are listed as possibly have resulted from Bio-terrorism that I'm keeping a close eye on. So far they're more East than out here, but just watching the sudden influx of all these viruses from the middle east and africa seeping across America is a little disturbing.
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        • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Derek -- are you around?

          What is this patent, exactly? What is it patenting? https://register.epo.org/application...22840&tab=main

          I'm not understanding exactly what we have grabbed patent rights on here. Some people on FB are screaming we have patents on the virus (as in manmade) - but I'm not seeing that in this at all. Not sure what it is, though. Is this some right to reproduce the viruses or mutations of it for research?
          Sal, it looks like the CDC have patented the whole Ebola virus genome, or at least the nucleic acid sequences of the strains they examined. What this essentially means is that anybody who develops a test or treatment based on these sequences are liable to pay a royalty to the CDC. What they have done is highly controversial and has affected international cooperation in recent years. This had led to some countries being reluctant to send their virus strains overseas for investigation. But it is not certain that these patents are enforceable. For a start, they are not discovering any new virus.

          The WHO recommends that the borders and air travel to the countries affected be kept open. Some neighboring African countries have closed their borders before but they are now re-open. The WHO is very reluctant to "quarantine" whole countries because of the huge economic impact to that country.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            EconomicPolicyJournal.com: US Government Holds Ebola Virus Patent

            But why would the CDC apply for and obtain patent no. CA2741523A1 and its 'nicknamed' tag, Ecobun,' awarded in 2010?



            They got one to control the vaccine development and retain the commercial rights to sell the pandemic's solution, when -- not if -- the Ecobun epidemic should break out one day.
            There are multiple strains of ebola - is that right? Is it the same strain - do we know?

            I'm not shocked by the patent if there is substantial research ongoing to develop treatment or vaccine for ebola. The companies doing the work or the govt paying for the work want to get their money back - and a profit, of course - if they come up with a cure. I don't like it - but I understand it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              News this morning:

              Family of this ebola victim were asked to remain in their home until danger of symptoms has passed (3 weeks) - they indicated they would not do that.
              Now they've been "ordered" to stay in their home. What if they choose to ignore the order?

              After spending 2-3 days in "very close" contact with this man while he was actively ill - before he went to the hospital....the 5 children in that family went to school last week...4 different schools.

              That family - whether they are American or Liberian - cares little for public safety. I don't understand why they are not forced to go somewhere to keep them isolated from the public.

              Yesterday it was "very few people" exposed to this guy - this morning it is "80 or more".
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              • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                News this morning:

                Family of this ebola victim were asked to remain in their home until danger of symptoms has passed (3 weeks) - they indicated they would not do that.
                Now they've been "ordered" to stay in their home. What if they choose to ignore the order?

                After spending 2-3 days in "very close" contact with this man while he was actively ill - before he went to the hospital....the 5 children in that family went to school last week...4 different schools.

                That family - whether they are American or Liberian - cares little for public safety. I don't understand why they are not forced to go somewhere to keep them isolated from the public.

                Yesterday it was "very few people" exposed to this guy - this morning it is "80 or more".
                Just seen that figure of 80 on the news here and that someone in Hawaii is showing possible signs of symptoms.

                I do hope they contain this well.
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              • Profile picture of the author garyv
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                News this morning:

                Family of this ebola victim were asked to remain in their home until danger of symptoms has passed (3 weeks) - they indicated they would not do that.
                Now they've been "ordered" to stay in their home. What if they choose to ignore the order?

                After spending 2-3 days in "very close" contact with this man while he was actively ill - before he went to the hospital....the 5 children in that family went to school last week...4 different schools.

                That family - whether they are American or Liberian - cares little for public safety. I don't understand why they are not forced to go somewhere to keep them isolated from the public.

                Yesterday it was "very few people" exposed to this guy - this morning it is "80 or more".
                So the CDC's way of ensuring containment is by "ordering" people to stay inside? We are in trouble. I would have expected a scene like at the end of E.T. - with a lot of white suits, tents, and military blockades.

                I'm starting to feel like I owe a lot of conspiracy theorists an apology.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  That's what I thought, too.

                  You want to read something chilling...try this:

                  Ebola Patient Thomas Eric Duncan's Nephew: I Had to Call CDC - NBC News


                  EDIT: This is rich! We have stopped by admin's orders - deportation of illegal aliens to countries that have outbreaks of ebola. However, we have no plans to stop admitting people from those countries.

                  So it's not considered a danger for US citizens and we shouldn't worry too much.

                  But it's dangerous to send illegals back to their own countries because they might catch it.

                  Yeah - I got it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    That's what I thought, too.

                    You want to read something chilling...try this:

                    Ebola Patient Thomas Eric Duncan's Nephew: I Had to Call CDC - NBC News
                    Yeah, the hospital initially screwed up I'd say. They tried to sort of gloss it over by saying his symptoms didn't "present" as typical ebola. Hello ... traveled from Liberia. Fever. Hopefully, they are going to be more on the ball from here on out. All of our medical facilities.

                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    EDIT: This is rich! We have stopped by admin's orders - deportation of illegal aliens to countries that have outbreaks of ebola. However, we have no plans to stop admitting people from those countries.

                    So it's not considered a danger for US citizens and we shouldn't worry too much.

                    But it's dangerous to send illegals back to their own countries because they might catch it.

                    Yeah - I got it.
                    I'm not that worried that this particular outbreak will amount to much. The original 18 are being monitored daily for illness. 80 are being watched, but 62 or so of them only had indirect contact. The 18 had direct contact and are not sick yet.

                    Hopefully, everyone will continue to do their jobs exceptionally well and stop this infection before it starts in Texas.

                    As for the travel thing ... I am for not sending immigrants back to ebola infected areas, but I am also for not allowing casual travel from those places to the US ... like visiting family, for instance.

                    Travel to those areas is a must. We must send humanitarian aid and doctors and nurses and supplies. This isn't just good for them ... it's good for us. The more widespread this disease is, the more we are at risk in our own country. The more we can do to halt this disease, the more we protect ourselves from it.

                    My concern with this particular guy ... I quoted that the virus was detected in sperm 62 days after recovery in a male patient. I was wrong. It's 83 days. Is he allowed to stay here after recovery or is he sent back to his country? I seriously doubt that they will monitor his sex life, so what happens? Does he infect other people after his recovery during his stay here?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      Yeah, the hospital initially screwed up I'd say. They tried to sort of gloss it over by saying his symptoms didn't "present" as typical ebola. Hello ... traveled from Liberia. Fever. Hopefully, they are going to be more on the ball from here on out. All of our medical facilities.



                      I'm not that worried that this particular outbreak will amount to much. The original 18 are being monitored daily for illness. 80 are being watched, but 62 or so of them only had indirect contact. The 18 had direct contact and are not sick yet.

                      Hopefully, everyone will continue to do their jobs exceptionally well and stop this infection before it starts in Texas.

                      As for the travel thing ... I am for not sending immigrants back to ebola infected areas, but I am also for not allowing casual travel from those places to the US ... like visiting family, for instance.

                      Travel to those areas is a must. We must send humanitarian aid and doctors and nurses and supplies. This isn't just good for them ... it's good for us. The more widespread this disease is, the more we are at risk in our own country. The more we can do to halt this disease, the more we protect ourselves from it.

                      My concern with this particular guy ... I quoted that the virus was detected in sperm 62 days after recovery in a male patient. I was wrong. It's 83 days. Is he allowed to stay here after recovery or is he sent back to his country? I seriously doubt that they will monitor his sex life, so what happens? Does he infect other people after his recovery during his stay here?
                      This is what I would do and I know this is going to be a damn unpopular response.

                      He transported a known deadly virus into this country. That should be a criminal offense. I would charge him, lock him up until the trial date and then, after the 83 days or whatever, if they wanted to drop the charges or negotiate a plea bargain meaning no jail time, do it and be done with it.

                      I would not let him just walk back out onto the streets. Personally, I feel he should go to jail for what he did.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                        This is what I would do and I know this is going to be a damn unpopular response.

                        He transported a known deadly virus into this country. That should be a criminal offense. I would charge him, lock him up until the trial date and then, after the 83 days or whatever, if they wanted to drop the charges or negotiate a plea bargain meaning no jail time, do it and be done with it.

                        I would not let him just walk back out onto the streets. Personally, I feel he should go to jail for what he did.
                        What exactly did he do that he wasn't allowed to do? He boarded a plane with a legal visa I presume and paid for his ticket, I presume. He was not visibly ill at the time, I presume. He was allowed to get off the plane and visit his family.

                        Unless it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that what he did was medical tourism, he isn't guilty of anything and even then, I doubt that he is guilty of anything because it simply wasn't illegal for him to come here.

                        What I think is that he dragged a dying pregnant ebola victim to a hospital, only to have to drag her back because the hospital was full. I think that he became frightened and had enough funds for a ticket to visit his family and bought that ticket and came here, knowing that if he became ill here, it was the best place for him to be ill. That's what I personally think, but it can't be proven and it's not currently against any laws.

                        What I would do is send him back after recovery and wish him well, unless someone who knows for certain that the ebola found in sperm of recovered men is not viable and able to infect others. If that's the case, then there'd be no reason that he couldn't continue to visit his family until his pass is up.

                        If there is a danger of it being sexually transmitted after recovery, we could be risking a whole "New Aids." Sexual transmission puts it in a category that makes it a lot trickier to contain because people have been known to ignore the best advice given when it comes to their sex lives.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          What exactly did he do that he wasn't allowed to do? He boarded a plane with a legal visa I presume and paid for his ticket, I presume. He was not visibly ill at the time, I presume. He was allowed to get off the plane and visit his family.
                          He knew he had been fully exposed - a few days prior to coming to the US he carried a woman with ebola and helped care for her until she died.

                          Apparently nurse ws told he was from Liberia but it should have been "I've been exposed to ebola". According to the liberian news - his neighborhood has been decimated by ebola.

                          It's interesting how the story comes out in bits and pieces. It was said he was "visiting family" or "visiting his sister" - but the quarantined woman he was visiting is his "partner" and they have a child together. Don't know that it matters but the story keeps changing.

                          This woman told Anderson Cooper she and Duncan "did not discuss ebola". He came straight from helping a dying woman - many in his neighborhood have died in recent weeks...and it's not mentioned? I don't believe that and I don't think Cooper did either.
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                            He knew he had been fully exposed - a few days prior to coming to the US he carried a woman with ebola and helped care for her until she died.

                            Apparently nurse ws told he was from Liberia but it should have been "I've been exposed to ebola". According to the liberian news - his neighborhood has been decimated by ebola.

                            It's interesting how the story comes out in bits and pieces. It was said he was "visiting family" or "visiting his sister" - but the quarantined woman he was visiting is his "partner" and they have a child together. Don't know that it matters but the story keeps changing.

                            This woman told Anderson Cooper she and Duncan "did not discuss ebola". He came straight from helping a dying woman - many in his neighborhood have died in recent weeks...and it's not mentioned? I don't believe that and I don't think Cooper did either.
                            You don't really expect a person fleeing for their life to give a damn about abiding laws that don't exist or even about the American people, do you? I don't. I don't give anything he or the family says any weight whatsoever.

                            The thing is, we are entirely capable of preventing him and others like him from landing on our soil until this has subsided, and yet, we won't. Why is that?

                            As for the nurse who didn't connect the dots ... She shouldn't expect him to say I have tended to ebola victims or anything like that. She's the one who is being paid to be on the ball and hear the word travel, Liberia and connect a fever and at least become alarmed and curious enough to see that proper procedures are adhered to. She should have sounded the alarm immediately. They've been warned and trained in ebola procedures for months now.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                              Fascinating "news" from two sides of a story....

                              On CNN, anchors talking to a lawyer about possible liability of the TX hospital - they didn't react properly - they may have further endangered this man's life....blah blah.

                              Two minutes later on FOX - Liberia is filing charges against this man saying he lied in his answers on the health form required for everyone leaving the country!

                              What a strange story overall.
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                            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


                              The thing is, we are entirely capable of preventing him and others like him from landing on our soil until this has subsided, and yet, we won't. Why is that?

                              .
                              The Best Investment For The Fight Against Ebola - NASDAQ.com

                              People are saying this is bogus because it's on conspiracy sites. Well guess where they got it?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Suzanne - um - the full text links are right there.

    I didn't say actually "airborne". I was talking about aerosol. The difference is how far something can travel in air. Your assessment "unless someone sneezed on you" - that's aerosol. That is what research is pointing to. You only read the abstract? I don't think abstracts cover much? Anyhow - the virus has been shown to be aerosol to at least some primates. Not in other animals - but since there's been little study of the active disease they don't know for sure if "primates" is close enough to us for it to be considered aerosol transmittable. I wouldn't take chances with it if I have a choice.
    And it is a virus. How many people could be effected if it mutates?

    Questions we need to be open to watching out for at the very least.

    As far as what is going on in this country health-wise. Ebola isn't the only really nasty and potentially fatal virus running around the states. This is a new one. It's being around 70% deadly over there, but we've had 4 victims who have all survived. Now we have one who was a surprise. We'll just have to see if he survives, too, huh?

    As far as being worried about my health. I'm not overly so -- but when I go somewhere and see an employee who is obviously sick and should be at home rather than coughing and sneezing on everything they touch................I just leave. There's more than one reason I like to live in low population densities.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      This strain has NOT been found to be airborne - or aerosol - in any instance involving humans. It does not affect animals in the same way - explained in this article

      Alex Jones and some bloggers are beginning to push the "mutation" angle and predict dire future consequences. They'll be pushing the hysteria button which is highly irresponsible.

      Can Ebola Go Airborne? - Forbes

      Turns out this particular man CARRIED a woman who was dying of ebola. That's serious exposure as the end stages involves a lot of 'body fluids'.

      What I want to know - and I think others would if they though of it - is whether he was able to get a visa quickly after being exposed.....or did he already have the visa. I think that's important information.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        This strain has NOT been found to be airborne - or aerosol - in any instance involving humans. It does not affect animals in the same way - explained in this article

        Alex Jones and some bloggers are beginning to push the "mutation" angle and predict dire future consequences. They'll be pushing the hysteria button which is highly irresponsible.

        Can Ebola Go Airborne? - Forbes

        Turns out this particular man CARRIED a woman who was dying of ebola. That's serious exposure as the end stages involves a lot of 'body fluids'.

        What I want to know - and I think others would if they though of it - is whether he was able to get a visa quickly after being exposed.....or did he already have the visa. I think that's important information.
        What I read wasn't from Jones. It was from PubMed.
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  • Profile picture of the author leilapearse
    Banned
    Heard about it, just now..tsk3x!
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  • Profile picture of the author laklaker
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by laklaker View Post

      Its funny because US always find the cure. But HIV? Still ongoing. Why is that.
      There's a clue in the fact no one's found the cure for the common cold.

      No disrespect to Americans either but I don't think they can be praised for finding all the cures. Many yes but not all.

      (Edit. That's not to say they don't do a sterling job of finding cures of course, just that other countries do occasionally do things too)
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    It's been widely reported that the CDC put out a similar directive:

    1. All staff must be aware of and comply with the mandatory guidelines described in this
    operational directive, including those for personal protective equipment (PPE).
    B. Assess Travel History
    i. Presence of a significant travel history; history of contact with an ill individual who
    has traveled to an area affected by an EVD outbreak; or occupational or laboratory
    exposure, could suggest a risk of EVD.

    Determine if patient has had possible exposure as identified in Bi above WITHIN 21
    DAYS related to Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Democratic Republic of Congo or Sierra
    Leone. Countries with EVD cases may change. Current information is available
    from the Public Health Agency of Canada at:

    http://www.wrha.mb.ca/prog/ipc/files/EVDMgmt-OD.pdf
    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    BBC News - Liberia 'to prosecute US Ebola man'

    Liberia says it plans to prosecute US Ebola patient for allegedly lying over his contacts with infected relative
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      BBC News - Liberia 'to prosecute US Ebola man'

      Liberia says it plans to prosecute US Ebola patient for allegedly lying over his contacts with infected relative
      And they should.

      This whole situation has me very unsettled. Texas, Hawaii. Who's next? How long before we all have to lock ourselves in our homes for weeks until it either all ends or the world ends?

      Unstable people like myself do not handle this shit well.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      BBC News - Liberia 'to prosecute US Ebola man'

      Liberia says it plans to prosecute US Ebola patient for allegedly lying over his contacts with infected relative
      I'm glad to hear this and hope that it means that as soon as he is well enough, the US will be rid of him and he will be forced back to Liberia. I hope the US reconsiders allowing people from ebola stricken countries to come here for casual visits.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    CDC issued the warning...obviously the patient's travel history should have been taken more seriously.

    The CDC has warned U.S. doctors to be on the lookout for signs of patients with Ebola by looking for early warning signs, including fever or muscle weakness and by taking into account their recent travel history.

    If a doctor in the U.S. suspects at all that a patient is infected with Ebola, they would immediately be directed to call the CDC and isolate the patient. Special protective gear would be used by hospital workers, including maintenance workers, to protect themselves from infection.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WorldNe...ry?id=24772833
    For sure some health care facilities got the message.

    In response to the West African outbreak of the deadly Ebola virus, some Boston hospitals are instructing clinical staff to ask patients as soon as they arrive about their travel histories, and reminding doctors and nurses of the symptoms.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle...28O/story.html
    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    I wonder how many will be punished for what happened last month in Guinea?

    When Guinean government officials visited the village of Womme in the country’s southeast, they planned to educate people about Ebola and show them how to avoid it — in a region where many still believe the virus doesn't exist.

    But it all went disastrously wrong.

    Villagers responded furiously, pelting the delegation with stones and beating the visitors with clubs, according to Guinean radio. The delegation, which included doctors and journalists, fled into the bush after the attack Tuesday.

    The Guinean government said Thursday that eight delegation members had been killed, including several journalists, news agencies reported. There also were reports that 21 people had been injured.
    A local police officer, Richard Haba, said the villagers believed that Ebola “is nothing more than an invention of white people to kill black people.”

    The incident underscores the challenges for local and international health teams fighting the Ebola virus in West Africa.
    The assault followed similar attacks against medical workers or health officials in several other villages and towns in recent weeks. Last month, riots erupted after a medical team sprayed a marketplace in the same region as rumors spread that it was a conspiracy to infect the population.

    Eight reported dead in attack on Ebola workers in Guinea - LA Times
    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Stay home or face arrest...

    WASHINGTON — Texas health officials have ordered four close family members of the Ebola patient in Dallas to stay in their home, and they've posted law enforcement outside to be sure.

    4 relatives of Ebola patient ordered to stay home | www.ajc.com
    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Unstable people like myself do not handle this shit well.

      That gave me my first laugh today! Good one!

      Though I think this shit makes all of us a bit unstable....
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        That gave me my first laugh today! Good one!

        Though I think this shit makes all of us a bit unstable....
        Good lord ... the news just doesn't stop. Did you read this Kay? Tell me why the CDC hasn't been all over that apartment to decontaminate and remove sweat soaked sheets and towels and anything else the guy used?

        In an exclusive interview, CNN anchor Anderson Cooper spoke with one family member, identified only as Louise, who said she, two nephews and one of her children are in the house under quarantine.

        Louise, who has had at least one child with Duncan, said Duncan had suffered diarrhea and had been sweating during the night before he was hospitalized.

        She told Anderson that the sweat-soaked sheets are still on the bed, but that she had put the towels he used into plastic bags that are still in the apartment.
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
          Banned
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Good lord ... the news just doesn't stop. Did you read this Kay? Tell me why the CDC hasn't been all over that apartment to decontaminate and remove sweat soaked sheets and towels and anything else the guy used?
          According to Judge Jenkins the sheets *may* be bagged inside the house ready for removal. I'm not sure when the bags will be picked up but I assume they will be removed when the professional cleaners get there. One would think the bags would have been picked up almost immediately and hopefully the place gets proper decon treatment soon.

          Texas officials are delivering groceries to the home and are preparing to have it professionally cleaned.
          Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins said the Ebola patient's belongings and clothes and household trash, possibly including his sheets, are bagged inside the house so the family members cannot come into contact with them until they are removed.

          4 relatives of Ebola patient ordered to stay home | www.ajc.com
          Cheers

          -don
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            The initial story was this woman was a 'care giver' (her job). Wouldn't you think she would have known to remove soiled linens and towels?

            When faced with a deadly disease - I would hope I wouldn't just wait for someone to come in and fix it for me.

            I agree about CDC. Honestly I think the focus has been on "preventing public panic" more than on "protecting the public"...and I'd love to know who decided to go that direction.

            I would have thought the entire apartment building might have been evacuated and decontaminated...especially since we know Duncan was vomiting outside the unit. But I would have thought his family would have been quarantined away from other people in the apt bldg - and that didn't happen.

            Stepping back and look at recent news - could it be we have gotten complacent to the point of stupid? Have we been too trusting of govt and its agencies?

            We have a man jumping a fence and running into the white house - but we thought we had loads of protection. We have hospital personnel not jumping at the word "Liberia" - and CDC not covering the bases of decontaminating areas where this man was sick.

            We've created a lot of expensive protections - that don't seem to be working terribly well. Not very reassuring.

            We have a man whose own country said lied to leave the country - and now his family is making demands here? Hey - send him home. We have planes that quarantine people and they fly both ways.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              The initial story was this woman was a 'care giver' (her job). Wouldn't you think she would have known to remove soiled linens and towels?

              When faced with a deadly disease - I would hope I wouldn't just wait for someone to come in and fix it for me.

              I agree about CDC. Honestly I think the focus has been on "preventing public panic" more than on "protecting the public"...and I'd love to know who decided to go that direction.

              I would have thought the entire apartment building might have been evacuated and decontaminated...especially since we know Duncan was vomiting outside the unit. But I would have thought his family would have been quarantined away from other people in the apt bldg - and that didn't happen.

              Stepping back and look at recent news - could it be we have gotten complacent to the point of stupid? Have we been too trusting of govt and its agencies?
              The CDC should have decontaminated that apartment and everything in it as soon as they knew an ebola patient had been there. How many other houses has he been in? The people who live there aren't qualified or outfitted to handle a bio-waste hazard and it only puts them at further risk.

              I think the head of the CDC has had too many press conferences and is starting to believe his own hype. Talk instead of action. It took them 2 days to make the kids stop going to school. They haven't cleaned the apartment. I read that someone was spray cleaning the outside of the building, but the bio waste inside the apartment is the real hazard, along with the area that the man vomited all over, and there's children in that apartment as well.

              I'm not really impressed or feeling very confident about our response to this crisis.[/QUOTE]
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    The nephew who called the CDC to make sure that his uncle was going to receive appropriate ebola care, after the first botched attempt, is now complaining that his uncle is not receiving ZMax ...

    Too funny ... guy lies about his contacts with ebola victims, comes here for the best chances of survival after being exposed, has had direct and indirect contact with 100 people here and put them at risk, and his nephew thinks he deserves a medication that has been depleted and used only for the elite ... those doctors and health care workers on the front lines trying to save other people's lives. Talk about entitlement.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    So watching TV news now and there's properly outfitted people at the site cleaning and looking like they've been doing it for days ... all because of all the press about the contaminated apartment ... now it's all a dog and pony show to show us they're on it. What a fiasco.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I don't agree that drug trials should be rushed due to a crisis.

      We know from experience over many years that drugs released early without proper and lengthy testing often have unforeseen side effects. These lead to huge financial liabilities and I think any company with a bright future in pharma is going to balk at taking a wild chance on a drug.

      It's not that the story is "bogus" for being on the Jones site among others - but the story gets bent just a little and comes across with a different spin.

      The US has committed 3000 military troops and says it's freeing up $500 million dollars to fight ebola in Africa. I think the idea that we aren't doing enough is ridiculous.

      http://www.cnbc.com/id/102048993#.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Seems we had some new rules about quarantines and procedures in the case of a world health threat (ta da)...but they were dropped in 2010...

        Obama administration scraps quarantine regulations - USATODAY.com


        didn't mean it to look political - but that's the title!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Chlorine. Chlorine kills it. I remember that from reading about the incident with all the monkeys a few decades back. It takes chlorine 7 minutes to kill ebola. I would think that the family of that man might want to start sterilizing the house and keep it that way.

    I would think it's time for the communities with the outbreaks to start shocking their wells and sterilizing their homes. Might not be enough, but it sure as hell would not hurt them.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Chlorine. Chlorine kills it. I remember that from reading about the incident with all the monkeys a few decades back. It takes chlorine 7 minutes to kill ebola. I would think that the family of that man might want to start sterilizing the house and keep it that way.

      I would think it's time for the communities with the outbreaks to start shocking their wells and sterilizing their homes. Might not be enough, but it sure as hell would not hurt them.
      Yep. Bleach or isopropyl alcohol (possibly vinegar too). I saw a news clip of NBCs Dr. Nancy Sniderman in
      Liberia and they do have big jugs (with a push button spout at the bottom) of bleach water all over the place for hand washing. I'd certainly be spraying a solution of that all over my house if I were in their situation.

      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    You and me both, Dan. I'm not a germaphobe, but I don't live in any areas where there is a dense population. I also watch the global outbreak maps to see if there's anything unusual or deadly going on in my area, and, of course, I keep my immune system as toned as possible. I find the scariest thing about these viruses is the sheer density of population and how many people can be encountered by one infected individual during the average day.

    http://outbreaks.globalincidentmap.com/home.php
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      they do have big jugs
      I was like whaaaaat? Dirty brain....
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I was like whaaaaat? Dirty brain....
        I was expecting that.


        From Riffle, though.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      You and me both, Dan. I'm not a germaphobe, but I don't live in any areas where there is a dense population. I also watch the global outbreak maps to see if there's anything unusual or deadly going on in my area, and, of course, I keep my immune system as toned as possible. I find the scariest thing about these viruses is the sheer density of population and how many people can be encountered by one infected individual during the average day.

      Global Incident Map Displaying Outbreaks Of All Varieties Of Diseases
      Tis scary. I almost never get sick. One day I was working at Wal-Mart and this customer comes fairly close
      to me - actually brushed her shoulder against me for a minute or so. I asked how she's doing and she proceeds to tell me not well 'cause she has the flu that was going around. I got it for about four days - worst flu of my life.

      I actually stayed out one extra day because two of my co-workers were in their late 70's or early 80's.
      I did not have to worry about the guy in his 70's though. He's a retired pediatrician with the best immune system ever. LOL He did get that nasty flu and was fine the next day.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Flight ban info: US carriers are still flying...


    Air France, which had previously cancelled flights to Liberia before the outbreak hit its peak, has now suspended flights to Sierra Leone because of the Ebola outbreak and at the request of the French government. The decision comes a week after the airline's staff signed a petition calling on their employer to avoid Ebola-hit countries for their own safety. Unions representing employees called on the airline to halt its flights to and from the West African countries that are grappling with the worst Ebola outbreak ever.

    The airline, which makes three flights a week to Freetown, says it is maintaining its flights to Conakry, Guinea, and to Lagos, Nigeria, cities it flies to once a day, but passengers are required to have their temperatures taken before boarding an aircraft. British Airways has also extended its flight suspension to Liberia and Sierra Leone to December. The British carrier initially said it was halting its service between Heathrow Airport and Liberia and Sierra Leone until the end of August due to ‘the deteriorating public health situation in both countries’, but it confirmed that it is extending the suspension until 31 December. The decision was announced by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in an updated travel advisory for Britons.

    http://www.frontpageafricaonline.com...us-hit-nations
    Cheers

    -dn
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    • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
      ............................................
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        If there were 1,000 cases in the US, I'd be a little concerned. At that number, the CDC may have trouble keeping track of contacts...and containment.

        Even at 100 cases, I can see someone thinking about it...as though it might become a problem.

        Ten cases? I wouldn't even consider it a threat.

        One case. One. And some people are in a panic.

        One case? If that person lived in my town....and delivered my groceries....and took a bite of an apple...and then I took a bite of of the same apple.....then I'd be worried.


        I wonder what will put us in a panic next week?

        Alonzo Bodden (a gifted comic) once gave a stream of disasters that we were sure were going to kill us all...in the past 20 years. It was hilarious.

        I'm not saying that we aren't all going to die from Ebola......

        But the 24 hour cable "news" coverage...is kind of funny.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          If there were 1,000 cases in the US, I'd be a little concerned. At that number, the CDC may have trouble keeping track of contacts...and containment.

          Even at 100 cases, I can see someone thinking about it...as though it might become a problem.

          Ten cases? I wouldn't even consider it a threat.

          One case. One. And some people are in a panic.

          One case? If that person lived in my town....and delivered my groceries....and took a bite of an apple...and then I took a bite of of the same apple.....then I'd be worried.


          I wonder what will put us in a panic next week?

          Alonzo Bodden (a gifted comic) once gave a stream of disasters that we were sure were going to kill us all...in the past 20 years. It was hilarious.

          I'm not saying that we aren't all going to die from Ebola......

          But the 24 hour cable "news" coverage...is kind of funny.
          I think I heard that there is another case.

          So the exponential doubling begins.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            I think I heard that there is another case.

            So the exponential doubling begins.

            That is true. It would be difficult to claim that there are 1.3 cases.

            It reminds me of MLM recruiters that say "I doubled my business in a week"

            They mean they went from $6 to $12.
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        • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I'm not saying that we aren't all going to die from Ebola......
          Is there something we should know? I think we should be told.

          Can it be transmitted by infected, door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen I wonder? Hmmm . . .
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          If there were 1,000 cases in the US, I'd be a little concerned. At that number, the CDC may have trouble keeping track of contacts...and containment.

          Even at 100 cases, I can see someone thinking about it...as though it might become a problem.

          Ten cases? I wouldn't even consider it a threat.

          One case. One. And some people are in a panic.

          One case? If that person lived in my town....and delivered my groceries....and took a bite of an apple...and then I took a bite of of the same apple.....then I'd be worried.


          I wonder what will put us in a panic next week?

          Alonzo Bodden (a gifted comic) once gave a stream of disasters that we were sure were going to kill us all...in the past 20 years. It was hilarious.

          I'm not saying that we aren't all going to die from Ebola......

          But the 24 hour cable "news" coverage...is kind of funny.
          For you Claude.

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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          If there were 1,000 cases in the US, I'd be a little concerned. At that number, the CDC may have trouble keeping track of contacts...and containment.

          Even at 100 cases, I can see someone thinking about it...as though it might become a problem.

          Ten cases? I wouldn't even consider it a threat.
          As seen in Liberia, the number of cases can double monthly. The problem is ... we're not panicking yet, but it's fairly clear that the hospitals are not following protocol, nor are just about any of the other systems fully in place.

          The hospital sent a Liberian with a fever home with antibiotics ... check
          They delayed pulling children who were exposed to the man from school for several days ... check
          They've locked up people in a contaminated apartment, that is still contaminated due to the cleaning company, who only arrived after much press coverage, not having bio hazardous waste permits ... check
          They're still hemming and hawing over the apartment decontamination, with people locked in there ... check

          Considering the level of unpreparedness at this point, multiply that by a few in cities around the country and we could have something to worry about.

          As for the poor people locked up in a contaminated apartment ... I smell a big lawsuit coming. Who knows what other mistakes are being made.
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            A large hazmat trailer is on scene at the apartment. It looks like Clean Guys Environmental (CGE) is doing the work.

            Cheers

            -don
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          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Considering the level of unpreparedness at this point, multiply that by a few in cities around the country and we could have something to worry about.
            It's Texas. Don't compare it to anywhere else. OK, there are a few places in the immediate neighborhood that you can compare it to. :-)

            Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    One concern would be the point at which area hospitals and facilities and trained staff are overwhelmed. The US is veeeery far from that level.

    Coverage about cases here remind me of my skeptic engineer friends take on dirty bombs that had
    so many people scared. "It would just be a matter of guys in protective suits going around with trash bags to pick up the debris."
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Maybe another one...

    Patient with Ebola-like symptoms in D.C. hospital - WTOP.com
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Yep ... just saw that. At least the hospital connected the dots between recent Nigeria travel and sick person and isolated him immediately. Wonder how many people he's been in contact with since becoming sick?
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Yep ... just saw that. At least the hospital connected the dots between recent Nigeria travel and sick person and isolated him immediately. Wonder how many people he's been in contact with since becoming sick?
        Again, why the %%^$&%$&$ are we letting people from Africa into this country?
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Again, why the %%^$&%$&$ are we letting people from Africa into this country?
          Since the problems are coming from west Africa, Is it OK with you if people enter this country from south and east Africa?
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I think there should be travel restrictions only on countries that are battling this epidemic. That's Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Nigeria and Senegal. There's what - 45-50 countries in Africa so that's just a few.

            2014 Ebola Outbreak in West Africa - Outbreak Distribution Map | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

            I don't think that's unreasonable. We've committed 3000 troops and so far about 100 million dollars to fighting ebola in Africa - I'd think protecting people here is a critical step.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Lots of comments yesterday on TV about the dirty sheets and towels still int he TX apartment. This morning report said TX health service was unable to HIRE a company to clean it up.

              That's something no one planned for. I'm sure on paper it sounds right - you clean and disinfect within XXX hours...but apparently it doesn't' say WHO does the work or HOW you find a local company willing to take a risk (or what they see as a risk).

              Devil's in the details and the details are where things get screwed every time.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Lots of comments yesterday on TV about the dirty sheets and towels still int he TX apartment. This morning report said TX health service was unable to HIRE a company to clean it up.

                That's something no one planned for. I'm sure on paper it sounds right - you clean and disinfect within XXX hours...but apparently it doesn't' say WHO does the work or HOW you find a local company willing to take a risk (or what they see as a risk).

                Devil's in the details and the details are where things get screwed every time.
                They found the cleaning co to do the job and they went to the apartment to clean it and then were turned away because the company didn't have bio hazard permits to transport the waste. So now they're waiting for the permits. They're going to need to get this part of it down pat as decontamination is fairly critical, especially if you're expecting people to live in that apartment. I think it's awful that this is the case ... that people are living there after a sick ebola patient was there. A judge said that plans were being made to move those people. All that is taking far too long for people living in a contaminated apartment.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Again, why the %%^$&%$&$ are we letting people from Africa into this country?
          The guy admitted in DC is not from Africa. He recently traveled to Nigeria. We also have an NBC journalist who has come down with ebola and the entire crew is coming back on Sunday. Surely you wouldn't turn away an American who is working in Liberia. The only restrictions on travel I would like to see until it subsides is like Kay said ... no casual travel from those countries for purposes like visiting, vacation, etc. That would not include our journalists and doctors and other medical staff working in those areas.

          Fortunately, those are poor countries and the majority of the people are not going to hopping on planes and flying all over the place. They can't even afford cab fare or even the basic necessities for that matter.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            The guy admitted in DC is not from Africa. He recently traveled to Nigeria. We also have an NBC journalist who has come down with ebola and the entire crew is coming back on Sunday. Surely you wouldn't turn away an American who is working in Liberia. The only restrictions on travel I would like to see until it subsides is like Kay said ... no casual travel from those countries for purposes like visiting, vacation, etc. That would not include our journalists and doctors and other medical staff working in those areas.

            Fortunately, those are poor countries and the majority of the people are not going to hopping on planes and flying all over the place. They can't even afford cab fare or even the basic necessities for that matter.
            Then my next question is this. Why are US citizens even going there? Why is anybody going there who absolutely doesn't have to be there? I mean you'd have to put a gun to my head and threaten to blow my brains out to get me to take a plane to anywhere in Africa.

            Do people not realize how serious this is or simply don't care? I understand those over there helping to fight this thing and I give them a crap ton of credit for doing that, but everybody else should just stay out for their own good and the good of the rest of the world.

            I'm sorry, I just don't get it.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Then my next question is this. Why are US citizens even going there? Why is anybody going there who absolutely doesn't have to be there? I mean you'd have to put a gun to my head and threaten to blow my brains out to get me to take a plane to anywhere in Africa.

              Do people not realize how serious this is or simply don't care? I understand those over there helping to fight this thing and I give them a crap ton of credit for doing that, but everybody else should just stay out for their own good and the good of the rest of the world.

              I'm sorry, I just don't get it.
              While I wouldn't be going there, there's probably lots of reasons that people do. Business for one. Journalism, medical staff helping out. Some of it might be frivolous or foolhardy reasons, but probably not many. They aren't divulging the name of this new guy and ebola has not yet been confirmed, so nothing is known about him at this time.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Already an advertisement for military grade ebola virus protection suit on that page.

      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Apparent success against Ebola with HIV drug in Liberia - CNN.com
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Clean Guys Environmental (CGE) arrived at the apartment last about 9PM last night to "access the.situation, make a plan, and then communicate with the CDC"...after that is/was done the cleaning commences. They company stated this job should be a "walk in the park".

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Yes, the company did not have the proper Federal transportation permits to transport this type of hazardous material which evidently is handled through the state government.

    Brad Smith of the Cleaning Guys, which was hired to sanitize the apartment, said his company is ready to go but a permit issue has stopped them from entering the home. Smith says a specialized permit, which is handled by the state government, is needed to transport this type of unprecedented hazardous waste on Texas highways. Cleaning Guys specializes in hazmat and biohazard cleaning services, but it does not transport the materials.

    It’s unclear how long it will take to get the proper permits.

    Sanitizing crew turned away at Ebola patient’s residence in Dallas | Q13 FOX News
    As Kay mentioned Texas officials supposedly had trouble finding a company to do the job...

    “We have been working to relocate the family members currently under the control orders but do not have any additional information at this time,” Dallas County spokeswoman Lauren Mish told NBC News. “Federal transportation permits are required for this type of waste removal.”
    But special permits are required to haul waste that’s considered a biohazard, said Thomas Skinner, a spokesman for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. “There’s no excuse,” for the delay, he told MSNBC. Texas state health officials have said several times that they had trouble finding a company willing to come in and clean the apartment.
    "The contractor team will start the initial clean-up, place materials in secured containers, and working with Dallas County and the City of Dallas Hazmat, a vehicle will transport the materials to a secure location. We are coordinating with our state and federal partners to ensure compliance with regulations regarding transfer of hazardous materials. "

    'No Excuse': Cleanup Starts After Delay at Ebola Victim's Apartment - NBC News
    Dallas officials say the cleanup should take about 3 hours and the hospital that turned him away says he was not turned away due to human error, he was turned away because of a "software problem". I guess they figure humans did not code or setup the software...

    A crew from the Cleaning Guys, a hazardous materials cleanup company, arrived about 12:30 p.m. EDT to start the work that Dallas County officials said would take about three hours.
    Hospital officials on Thursday said Duncan was mistakenly sent home at first because of a software problem that has since been fixed, rather than human error.

    In a statement, they said doctors and nurses had followed their protocols but that their computerized records on the patient did not mesh. A nurse's record of the case showed Duncan had come from Liberia, but doctors who examined him may not have had that information in their records.

    Texas apartment where Ebola patient stayed to be cleaned - Chicago Tribune
    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but I heard that 1st case guy went to a hospital in Texas and told them of the possible problem and they sent his away.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but I heard that 1st case guy went to a hospital in Texas and told them of the possible problem and they sent his away.
      Yeah ... it's been mentioned a lot.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but I heard that 1st case guy went to a hospital in Texas and told them of the possible problem and they sent his away.
      Hospital officials are saying that was due to a "software problem" and the problem has since been corrected.

      Hospital officials on Thursday said Duncan was mistakenly sent home at first because of a software problem that has since been fixed, rather than human error.

      In a statement, they said doctors and nurses had followed their protocols but that their computerized records on the patient did not mesh. A nurse's record of the case showed Duncan had come from Liberia, but doctors who examined him may not have had that information in their records.

      Texas apartment where Ebola patient stayed to be cleaned - Chicago Tribune
      Cheers

      -don
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  • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
    Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

    Can it be transmitted by infected, door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen I wonder? Hmmm . . .
    Nope (unless you come in contact with his sweat, blood, vomit, urine or feces)
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

      Is there something we should know? I think we should be told.

      Can it be transmitted by infected, door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen I wonder? Hmmm . . .

      Originally Posted by cbpayne View Post

      Nope (unless you come in contact with his sweat, blood, vomit, urine or feces)
      Cbpayne; Soooo, in my case, the answer is a big "Yes!"

      I call them "The Big Five Essentials To Selling Success".

      The steps in selling at high levels are (in this order)
      Sweat
      Blood
      Vomit
      Urine
      Feces
      And a mint, to freshen the breath.

      Why do you think I need a plastic bubble wrap suit? Selling is messy.

      The more you know.....
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Just read the Texas Ebola patient came here to get married. I'm thinking he came up with that idea right after carrying a near dead girl around, considering that's when he decided to leave Liberia.

    Thomas Duncan, the first patient in the United States to be diagnosed with Ebola, came to Texas to marry his girlfriend. George Mason, a senior pastor at Wilshire Baptist Church in Dallas, said that Duncan had come from Liberia to “start a new life in America” with congregation member Louise Troh. “Louise and other members of her extended family are in isolation now because of their contact with Mr. Duncan,” Mason wrote. “You can imagine how frightening this must be for all of them, mixed with the sadness of Mr. Duncan’s diagnosis.” Duncan is now in serious condition and in isolation at a local hospital. Troh is in quarantine at the apartment where Duncan fell sick. Texas health officials said 50 people are under observation for Ebola, down from 100 on Thursday. Of those, 10 are deemed to be at high risk for exposure.

    U.S. Ebola Patient Came to Get Married - The Daily Beast
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Just read the Texas Ebola patient came here to get married. I'm thinking he came up with that idea right after carrying a near dead girl around, considering that's when he decided to leave Liberia.
      I saw a report that said he purchased the ticket 2 weeks before the incident of handling the sick woman.

      Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    DUI suspect in Georgia jail being tested for Ebola after developing fever: report - NY Daily News

    DUI suspect in Georgia jail being tested for Ebola after developing fever: report

    A DUI suspect at a Georgia jail is being tested for Ebola after he developed a fever Friday.

    The unidentified inmate told officials at the Cobb County Jail that he recently travelled to Africa, WSB-TV reported

    The jail stopped accepting new inmates Friday as they investigate his symptoms.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Here's a report that was hidden in wiki that I just saw

    Officials: Second person being monitored for Ebola

    Sounds like one the quarantined family members might be coming down with some illness
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @ Suzanne

    That story was not very well "hidden" as two days ago USA Today, Time and others published it to their very popular websites....

    Second Patient Monitored for Ebola in Texas

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @ Ron

    That was already posted on this thread by cbpayne...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9569321

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
    Lions, tigers and ebola
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't know about you, but if I was quarantined somewhere that someone came down with ebola, I sure as hell wouldn't be waiting for a "service" to clean. I'd be spraying down my whole kitchen and bathroom and anything else I could hit with bleach without ruining it. Anything else would be getting soaked with rubbing alcohol. I'd be taking every natural anti-viral I had in the house and showering at least 3 times a day. I can't imagine "waiting for a service". I also can't imagine anyone not having a few very potent virus/bacteria killers like bleach, vinegar, and rubbing alcohol in their home. I might not be a germaphobe - but I know how to clean a damned infected house, for cripes sakes.
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    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I don't know about you, but if I was quarantined somewhere that someone came down with ebola, I sure as hell wouldn't be waiting for a "service" to clean. I'd be spraying down my whole kitchen and bathroom and anything else I could hit with bleach without ruining it. Anything else would be getting soaked with rubbing alcohol. I'd be taking every natural anti-viral I had in the house and showering at least 3 times a day. I can't imagine "waiting for a service". I also can't imagine anyone not having a few very potent virus/bacteria killers like bleach, vinegar, and rubbing alcohol in their home. I might not be a germaphobe - but I know how to clean a damned infected house, for cripes sakes.

      That's because you have an awareness of what a virus is.

      I have no idea what the education level is of the people quarantined,....but some people have no idea how a virus works, or how it makes you sick, or even how it's transmitted.

      That is one reason a virus spreads. Education is a great defense.

      And Sal, some people simply don't think about germs or bacteria. It isn't part of their awareness. Again I have no idea about the people involved.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The woman who was staying in that apartment referred to her job as "caregiver" and I think some of us thought she might be aware of virus and germs.

        I think there are many people who, even knowing what a virus is, will wait for someone else to take care of it. That's not unusual.

        It's good to know the ticket was not purchased as a result of his contact with the sick woman. I expect he was afraid if he admitted he had contact he wouldn't be allowed to use his ticket.
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          It's good to know the ticket was not purchased as a result of his contact with the sick woman. I expect he was afraid if he admitted he had contact he wouldn't be allowed to use his ticket.
          I only saw that reported in one place and was surprised by how much both the question and the answer were basically tossed-out as throw-away lines - as if neither was important.

          I'm going to be interested to see if that subject comes up again, anytime soon.

          Cheers. - Frank
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I don't know about you, but if I was quarantined somewhere that someone came down with ebola, I sure as hell wouldn't be waiting for a "service" to clean. I'd be spraying down my whole kitchen and bathroom and anything else I could hit with bleach without ruining it. Anything else would be getting soaked with rubbing alcohol. I'd be taking every natural anti-viral I had in the house and showering at least 3 times a day. I can't imagine "waiting for a service". I also can't imagine anyone not having a few very potent virus/bacteria killers like bleach, vinegar, and rubbing alcohol in their home. I might not be a germaphobe - but I know how to clean a damned infected house, for cripes sakes.
      She scrubbed with bleach. That's not the problem. The problem is bio hazardous waste. You are not allowed to dispose of bio hazardous waste in just any old way that you want to. They were told not to dispose of the sheets and towels because bio hazardous waste is not allowed to be dumped casually. The cleaning company they hired to clean the apartment didn't even have the special permit required to transport bio hazardous waste. Hospitals don't just throw their bio hazardous waste in dumpsters. The sheets and towels and mattress that he slept on along with his luggage and personal items are now in sealed barrels and guarded by guards until they are disposed of permanently.

      So what is really disgusting is these people had to live there for days with this material inside their home and no way to dispose of it safely.

      And to make sure they get any contamination in a building, they normally fill the room with fumes that will kill it in cracks and places that would be easily overlooked. Obviously, a home owner can't do this and still live in the home.

      http://biosafety.utk.edu/files/2012/...ste_basics.pdf
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    The mere fact that a *hospital* couldn't keep the chain of communication open - utterly baffling to me.

    And don't forget the Enterovirus68 that's spreading as well. 2 towns over from mine had a confirmed case.

    Not an informed world in which we live.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by barbling View Post

      The mere fact that a *hospital* couldn't keep the chain of communication open - utterly baffling to me.

      And don't forget the Enterovirus68 that's spreading as well. 2 towns over from mine had a confirmed case.

      Not an informed world in which we live.
      What's pretty clear is that if cases keep cropping up, they're going to have to do a whole lot better than the Texas model.

      That hospital issued a statement that the reason the doctors didn't get the note that the patient had traveled from Liberia was due to a "technical glitch" in their software, which has now been fixed. A day later, they retract that statement saying there was no technical glitch and the doctors had access to that information all along. Same hospital told us he came in sick on the 26th. Now it's the 25th he came in sick and was turned away. I looked up the record/reputation of that hospital. It's not good by any standard.

      The bio hazard waste procedures have to be in place at the time of infections, which means now. Both hospitals and the government in charge of decontamination of buildings have to know what they're doing and do it immediately, not a week later, and there has to be a place and a procedure for destroying the bio hazardous waste. The home owners and apartment dwellers can only clean apartments with bleach. They cannot dispose of bio hazardous waste. We don't want it in our dumpsters.

      But you're right ... right now, I'm far more concerned about the enterovirus and my grandchildren in schools. It is spreading and some kids are dying and others are suffering from paralysis.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Points out another weakness in our "system" of communication. The ebola virus in Africa has caught the media's attention - thus very little time has been devoted to the enterovirus which is much more damaging now in the US.

        I believe we add systems and more regulation of systems to our businesses and govt and services - and some like the hospital and perhaps the govt grow beyond their ability to remain competent.

        Did the hospital know Duncan had just arrived from Liberia or believed he was "originally" from Liberia. HE had an obligation to tell doctors he had been exposed to ebola - and he didn't do that. The hospital system failed - but he certainly didn't do anything to stop that.
        Signature
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        ***
        One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
        what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Did the hospital know Duncan had just arrived from Liberia or believed he was "originally" from Liberia. HE had an obligation to tell doctors he had been exposed to ebola - and he didn't do that. The hospital system failed - but he certainly didn't do anything to stop that.
          He had an obligation to divulge that fact in Liberia where it is proven that he's a liar and lied on the screening application to be able to come here. Our systems can't rely on liars ... the hospital was told he recently traveled from Liberia and he had a fever. That should have set off the alarm and he should have been put into isolation immediately.

          Read an article yesterday about the airport screening and how to circumvent it. Got a fever? Take Ibuprofen before going to the airport. Lie on the screening form .... done. You're on your way.

          Since the US has a small, but good record of saving ebola victim's lives, I would expect that anyone who may fear their exposure to it in a place where people are dropping like flies to lie to get out of there, if they can afford the airfare. Wrong or right ... it's medical tourism at it's worst and it's going to happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Read a story this morning about the judge in Texas who ordered that the family who is quarantined be moved. This judge drove them himself to a 4-bedroom farm with acres of land around it to move them. He then did an interview and see ... I'm still wearing the same t-shirt that I wore when I drove them. None of them have symptoms. I know that he is trying to instill calm, but that's still a pretty brave thing to do in my book, since these are the people who had very direct and prolonged exposure to him. Quite a story.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Family of US Ebola Patient Moves into Donated Home in Gated Community - ABC News

      The article above says it's a house in a gated community. What I love is the judge apologizing to the family of the victim because they were quarantined.
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Family of US Ebola Patient Moves into Donated Home in Gated Community - ABC News

        The article above says it's a house in a gated community. What I love is the judge apologizing to the family of the victim because they were quarantined.
        Funny ... this morning it was a farm and now it's a gated community. Good for the judge who moved them though. I'm sure they're breathing a little easier to be out of that place.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          The problem is much bigger than this one man. The WHO predicted the ebola epidemic in West Africa could reach as many as 20,000 cases by the end of November. Estimate NOW are 22k cases.

          Just heard a health professional from Africa predict 400,000 cases by end of year. He saidt he rather poor health systems in the affected countries has pretty much shut down and all they are treating are new ebola cases.

          I don't think it's panic to say we need to immediately address the problem of people coming to the US from affected countries in Africa. We need a procedure in place that is straight forward and simple enough to be FOLLOWED every time.

          One patient is being treated in Germany - and an article about it said this:

          Curing an Ebola patient can cost up to 250,000 euros ($315,000) and in this case a health insurer is paying the bill, Gottschalk said. The Ugandan patient is being taken care of by eight doctors and 16 nurses.
          That ebola patient is a doctor so has health insurance. That will not be the case for many who contract the disease.
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          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
          what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    Duncan is now in critical condition.

    Hospital: US Ebola patient in critical condition


    Health officials said Saturday that they are currently monitoring about 50 people for signs of the deadly disease who may have had contact with Duncan, including nine who are believed to be at a higher risk. Thus far none have shown symptoms. Among those being monitored are people who rode in the ambulance that transported Duncan back to the hospital before his diagnosis, said Dr. Tom Frieden, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    You have to read the whole thing. Good grief!

    ~ Theresa
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I was watching news and eating a sandwich....what I noticed today was every person who upchucks on a plane now is headline news of "possible ebola".

      Didn't do much for my sandwich.
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I was watching news and eating a sandwich....what I noticed today was every person who upchucks on a plane now is headline news of "possible ebola".

        Didn't do much for my sandwich.
        I have to honestly say that flying wouldn't be something I would care to do right now. People can make fun of "panicking" over this, but consider this. The airports are wide open, as we've just seen. Anyone with a passport can take a couple of Excedrin and hop on a plane, including those who just carted an ebola victim that died around town before getting on that plane. It isn't the contact with people who are not showing symptoms that bothers me.

        It's been reported that ebola survives on surfaces for a number of days ... they don't really seem to know how long. Hello ... that's surfaces we're talking about. How about a little sneeze in the grocery store while pinching the apples? How about just about any surface anywhere? In Liberia, the NBC cameraman that just came down with it had learned not to shake hands, not to touch people, to clean his hands with chlorine frequently, to keep his distance .. yet he still got it. How did he get it?

        One case here with 10 more people at high risk in Texas, I'm not too panicked about, but with the airports bringing over anybody who wants to travel, how long before there's a victim in every state with 50 of their contacts running around buying groceries, visiting stores, pumping gas, etc?
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The U.S.A. has no Surgeon General.

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-nra-m...a-crisis-worse
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    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      The U.S.A. has no Surgeon General.

      How the NRA is making the Ebola crisis worse | MSNBC
      I don't know if it makes it worse. According to that article, the role of the Surgeon General is "We need ... a surgeon general to echo and amplify the messages coming from the CDC, and to provide evidence-based advocacy to shape our response."

      So his/her role sounds a bit redundant to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      You never miss a chance to take a swipe, do you? I'm glad you think one person sitting in D.C. would have changed this story. We already have several people sitting in that town - and they don't seem to be doing much, do they?

      Some didn't like a non-US born doctor when there are many well qualified doctors qualified for this position. He ran a group supporting Obama's election and this appt is seen by some as payoff. He's also known for calling gun control a major health issue in the U.S.

      Vivek Murthy’s surgeon general nomination halted by Democrats: How the NRA won without a filibuster.

      His own party won't vote on his appointment. That's how controversial he is.
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      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        You never miss a chance to take a swipe, do you? I'm glad you think one person sitting in D.C. would have changed this story. We already have several people sitting in that town - and they don't seem to be doing much, do they?

        Some didn't like a non-US born doctor when there are many well qualified doctors qualified for this position. He ran a group supporting Obama's election and this appt is seen by some as payoff. He's also known for calling gun control a major health issue in the U.S.

        Vivek Murthy’s surgeon general nomination halted by Democrats: How the NRA won without a filibuster.

        His own party won't vote on his appointment. That's how controversial he is.

        All the guy said was that guns have an impact on health and the NRA went crazy.

        That's quite controversial.

        And sure there are a few folks in the Dem party that won't vote for the guy cause they're scared of the NRA like just about all the folks in the other party.
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        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          All the guy said was that guns have an impact on health and the NRA went crazy.

          That's quite controversial.

          And sure there are a few folks in the Dem party that won't vote for the guy cause they're scared of the NRA like just about all the folks in the other party.
          Could we just leave guns and NRA out of an Ebola thread? Us nervous nellies here are concerned about two serious diseases and if we're going to control the spread of ebola and enterovirus in this country, me and Kay need to stay on top of it .... please.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      The U.S.A. has no Surgeon General.
      The fact of the matter is we do have an Acting Surgeon General. Regina Benjamin's deputy was made the Acting Surgeon General and he appears to be a well qualified guy. He and his wife are both doctors.

      Rear Admiral Boris D. Lushniak, M.D., M.P.H., is currently the Acting United States Surgeon General.

      Rear Admiral (RADM) Boris D. Lushniak, M.D., M.P.H., is the Acting United States Surgeon General. RADM Lushniak articulates the best available scientific information to the public regarding ways to improve personal health and the health of the nation. He also oversees the operations of the U.S. Public Health Service (USPHS) Commissioned Corps, comprising of approximately 6,800 uniformed health officers who serve in locations around the world to promote, protect, and advance the health and safety of our nation.

      RADM Lushniak served as Deputy Surgeon General from November 2010, until July 17, 2013, when he assumed the duties of Acting Surgeon General.

      RADM Lushniak was introduced to the USPHS in 1983 as a senior medical student when he completed an elective with the Indian Health Service in Winslow, Arizona. He began his USPHS career in 1988 as a Lieutenant, entering the service as part of the Epidemic Intelligence Service (EIS) at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and initially was stationed with the CDC’s National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) in Cincinnati, Ohio where he conducted epidemiological investigations of workplace hazards. In 1990, he was accepted for the CDC’s long-term training program and completed a three-year residency in dermatology at the University of Cincinnati after which he established an occupational skin disease program at NIOSH. During his time at the CDC, he also served on special assignments and disaster response activities in Bangladesh, St. Croix, Russia, and Kosovo, was part of the CDC/NIOSH team at Ground Zero (World Trade Center) and the CDC team investigating the anthrax attacks in Washington, DC. In 2004, he transitioned from the CDC to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as the Chief Medical Officer of the Office of Counterterrorism, and in 2005 was appointed FDA Assistant Commissioner, Counterterrorism Policy and Director of the Office of Counterterrorism and Emerging Threats within the Office of the Commissioner. While at the FDA, he was deployed after Hurricane Katrina to serve as the Department of Health and Human Services representative in San Antonio and served as the FDA Deputy Incident Commander for the 2009 pandemic response. He was promoted to Rear Admiral, Lower Half in 2006 and attained the rank of Rear Admiral, Upper Half in 2010.

      RADM Lushniak was born in Chicago to post-World War II immigrants from Ukraine. He was admitted to the six-year Honors Program in Medical Education at Northwestern University and completed his Bachelor of Science degree in Medical Sciences in 1981 and obtained his medical degree (M.D.) in 1983. In 1984, he completed the Masters of Public Health (M.P.H.) degree at Harvard University. He completed a residency in family medicine in 1987 at St Joseph Hospital in Chicago and a residency in dermatology at the University of Cincinnati in 1993. RADM Lushniak maintains board certifications in dermatology and preventive medicine (occupational). He served as a staff physician in dermatology at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda and is adjunct professor of dermatology at the Uniformed Service University of the Health Sciences.

      RADM Lushniak served as the co-executive director of the USPHS Music Ensemble from 2007-2011 and is a member of many professional organizations including the American Medical Association (AMA), the American Academy of Dermatology, the American College of Preventive Medicine, the American Public Health Association, the American Dermatological Association, the American Contact Dermatitis Society, the Association of Military Surgeons of the United States (AMSUS), and the Ukrainian Medical Association of North America. He has received numerous USPHS awards including the Distinguished Service Medal, Surgeon General's Medallion, the Exemplary Service Medal, two Outstanding Service Medals, a Commendation Medal, and two Achievement Awards. In addition, he has received the AMA Dr. William Beaumont Award in Medicine and the AMSUS Sustaining Member Lecture Award as well as DHHS Secretary and FDA Commissioner awards.

      A firm believer in leadership by example, RADM Lushniak also promotes the core messages of the National Prevention Strategy via his active lifestyle. He is an avid long-distance bicyclist, runner, hiker, and kayaker. In 2012, he scaled the summit of the most heavily glaciated peak in the United States, Washington’s 14-thousand foot Mount Rainier. He also leads community Surgeon General’s Walks throughout the United States. He resides in Rockville, Maryland with his wife Dr. Patricia Cusumano and two daughters Larissa and Stephanie.

      Biography of the Acting Surgeon General | SurgeonGeneral.gov
      Since 1973 the Surgeon General position has not always been filled promptly or immediately.

      Previous Surgeons General | SurgeonGeneral.gov

      In-fact we have had 10 different Acting Surgeon Generals and 8 Surgeon Generals since Jan. 31, 1973.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgeon..._United_States

      The official duties of the Surgeon General are listed here:

      http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/about/duties/index.html

      Cheers

      -don
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Even with a SG, I think CDC would be calling the shots.
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I can't say for sure, but this may help for faster diagnosis and perhaps allow top experts to look at samples digitally:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/womans...143400959.html
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      This has been a good thread. Hopefully it won't deteriorate into another pissing match.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      I can't say for sure, but this may help for faster diagnosis and perhaps allow top experts to look at samples digitally:

      http://finance.yahoo.com/news/womans...143400959.html
      That's quite a story. Blood tests that only require a drop of blood, at 50% of the cost, can be done at a pharmacy instead of the Dr.'s office. Sounds good to me. I don't see why it wouldn't work for ebola too.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        That's quite a story. Blood tests that only require a drop of blood, at 50% of the cost, can be done at a pharmacy instead of the Dr.'s office. Sounds good to me. I don't see why it wouldn't work for ebola too.
        This technology would also help world wide - a Doctors Without Borders kind of thing. I think the article mentioned it reads the DNA of viruses?

        In 2005, I was also working as a courier. We often transported blood samples across town from one hospital lab to another. Often something like a run from a regular hospital to Children's hospital because of their specialization. One time the lab manager said it was literally a matter of life or death and I could have no other stops. I thought about how much time, trouble and lives it would save if they could send the right pictures. The microscopic cameras may not have been developed enough or prevalent enough. (I don't know if they exist today, or if that is even viable technology for the medical field.)
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          This technology would also help world wide - a Doctors Without Borders kind of thing. I think the article mentioned it reads the DNA of viruses?

          In 2005, I was also working as a courier. We often transported blood samples across town from one hospital lab to another. Often something like a run from a regular hospital to Children's hospital because of their specialization. One time the lab manager said it was literally a matter of life or death and I could have no other stops. I thought about how much time, trouble and lives it would save if they could send the right pictures. The microscopic cameras may not have been developed enough or prevalent enough. (I don't know if they exist today, or if that is even viable technology for the medical field.)
          I thought of the same thing, and just checked. The polio virus, for example, is about 50nm. That is 1/20000th of a mm. So I don't think it is possible to use a light based microscope to view the virus. I THEN went to look at the EBOLA virus. I didn't see a size, but it DID say it was taken by an electron microscope. To the best of my knowledge, they are LARGER, and FAR more expensive.

          Optics work GREAT, but trying to view something SO tiny is near impossible. They can't even use light to make intel type CPUs anymore. The traces are just TOO tiny!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    This is the saddest story and one of the really awful things about this disease... that people want to hold and care for their sick loved ones.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/05/wo...n-liberia.html
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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      How Ebola sped out of control | The Washington Post
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The response from other countries seems snail paced when you consider the rate of people dying in West Africa.

        Three weeks ago the President committed 3000 military - a $750 million dollar relief effort. This week that became 3600....BUT less than 300 are reported as having arrive in those countries.

        We're going to build clinics but can we build them faster than the virus spreads. What will the public reaction be if military people sent there contract this disease? I wonder. It almost sounds like we need to build an infrastructure for a third world country before we can do anything else.

        Other help is beginning to arrive. On Sunday morning, a privately contracted 747 cargo plane landed with 2,016 rolls of plastic sheeting from the U.S. government, one of the materials needed to build an Ebola clinic.


        It would take hours to unload the plane, the crew said. Liberia's airport, built in 1942, had just three small forklifts. U.S. Air Force personnel will also have to repair the runway, or for the time being, just paint it so planes don't land on parts in disrepair.
        "Some companies would rather go to Afghanistan than come here," said the plane's loadmaster, Felix Curtis.
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        One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          The response from other countries seems snail paced when you consider the rate of people dying in West Africa.
          One reason why it is spreading in Africa is because of their CULTURE! If the CULTURE were different a few months ago, it wouldn't be spreading so fast. If they don't change it, ebola could, in theory, spread FOREVER!

          So they are doing EVERYTHING WRONG! In fact, the BEST and MOST EFFECTIVE part of hospitalizing is the hospitalization. NOT the doctors, drugs, medicines, cures, etc..... but the MERE act of adding some isolation!!!!!!!!!! IRONIC!

          Three weeks ago the President committed 3000 military - a $750 million dollar relief effort. This week that became 3600....BUT less than 300 are reported as having arrive in those countries.

          We're going to build clinics but can we build them faster than the virus spreads. What will the public reaction be if military people sent there contract this disease? I wonder. It almost sounds like we need to build an infrastructure for a third world country before we can do anything else.
          A person contracting ebola can DIE in less than a month. So there is NO way we can build proper structures fast enough, even WITH infrastructure. Of course, Afiica might have lower standards, like Haiti did. I watched a documentary about how COKE is delivered in Africa. The delivery boy featured had to travel a LOT of obstacles, etc... to do the route. He was on a bicycle.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
            Some things that concern me about this:

            How long before ISIS or some other psycho group decides to infect themselves and spend time making their way through large groups of people and highly populated areas?

            How long does it live on currency? Seems to be very little information on this, and opinions vary on what information there is. We already know they have to disinfect hard surfaces and destroy linens. Doesn't it stand to reason that currency could be a problem?

            Hopefully we're doing some forward planning on this. There are a lot of vacant hospitals across the country. Seems it would make sense to get a couple of those operational in order to remove any future patients from the overall hospital population.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

              Some things that concern me about this:

              How long before ISIS or some other psycho group decides to infect themselves and spend time making their way through large groups of people and highly populated areas?

              How long does it live on currency? Seems to be very little information on this, and opinions vary on what information there is. We already know they have to disinfect hard surfaces and destroy linens. Doesn't it stand to reason that currency could be a problem?

              Hopefully we're doing some forward planning on this. There are a lot of vacant hospitals across the country. Seems it would make sense to get a couple of those operational in order to remove any future patients from the overall hospital population.
              There are Muslim techniques that actually LIMIT exposure on currency. THEIR culture, ironically, works AGAINST ebola. So if you are expecting them to see the effects of what those in heavily affected areas are seeing, I DOUBT IT! You may not agree with religion, etc... but there ARE some good points. They have nothing REALLY to do with religion, but they are THERE and meaningful!

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                There are Muslim techniques that actually LIMIT exposure on currency. THEIR culture, ironically, works AGAINST ebola. So if you are expecting them to see the effects of what those in heavily affected areas are seeing, I DOUBT IT!

                Steve
                Steve,

                Sierra Leone is 71% Muslim and it's a highly affected country. Guinea is 85% Muslim and it is also a highly affected country.



                Cheers

                -don
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      In Texas, I think we still have some concerns.

                      They are "monitoring" people who might have been exposed to Duncan....but today they say they "can't find" one person who was "low risk exposure". Seems the man is homeless and they "monitored him" yesterday but can't find him today.

                      They say (today) they want to move him to a safe place where he can be watched...why didn't they do that when they found him the first time? He's probably fine and moved to a new park bench but why take the chance?

                      Some of this stuff sounds like 3 stooges. It's a terrible inconvenience for people to be confined for 3 weeks to make sure they don't develop ebola symptoms..but in a public health crisis, inconvenience is irrelevant.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        In Texas, I think we still have some concerns.

                        They are "monitoring" people who might have been exposed to Duncan....but today they say they "can't find" one person who was "low risk exposure". Seems the man is homeless and they "monitored him" yesterday but can't find him today.

                        They say (today) they want to move him to a safe place where he can be watched...why didn't they do that when they found him the first time? He's probably fine and moved to a new park bench but why take the chance?

                        Some of this stuff sounds like 3 stooges. It's a terrible inconvenience for people to be confined for 3 weeks to make sure they don't develop ebola symptoms..but in a public health crisis, inconvenience is irrelevant.
                        Yeah ... Texas isn't the most shining example of doing everything right. Hopefully, a lot will be learned from these mistakes. It seems an easy thing to monitor a homeless person. Put him in a "home" for 3 weeks with 3 regular meals per day. Why would he complain about that?
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            • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
              Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

              Some things that concern me about this:

              How long before ISIS or some other psycho group decides to infect themselves and spend time making their way through large groups of people and highly populated areas?
              Could Ebola be used as a weapon by ISIS? | Daily Mail Online
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              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                I thought about your post the other night. It seems to me that ISIS has a long ways to go to be able
                to obtain the virus and weaponize it. It also seem too cumbersome to infect their own guys and then get
                into the US or somewhere and infect people that way. Hard to go to Liberia, get sick, and then be able to keep moving to the target city. It's a disabling disease.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

        A testimony to the incompetence of the human race.
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          A testimony to the incompetence of the human race.
          That's a little harsh and a bit to general....humans have accomplished quite a lot to say the least. The health and longevity arenas are no exception...

          1500 - 1800 A.D. From the 1500s to around the year 1800, life expectancy throughout Europe hovered between the ages of 30 and 40.

          1800 to today: Since the early 1800s, Finch writes that life expectancy at birth has doubled – in a period of only 10 or so generations! Improved health care, sanitation, immunizations, access to clean running water and better nutrition are credited with the massive jump. Though it’s hard to imagine, researcher Elaine Larson describes in The American Journal of Public Health that doctors only began regularly washing their hands before surgery in the mid-1800s. A better understanding of hygiene and the transmission of microbes has since contributed substantially to public health.

          http://longevity.about.com/od/longev...ut-History.htm
          CDC Data:





          Cheers

          -don
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            That's a little harsh....humans have accomplished quite a lot to say the least.

            Cheers

            -don
            Well, the spread of EBOLA could have been slowed down a LOT! It could have been WIPED OUT! And it wouldn't cost a PENNY! We are wasting all this money, and risking SO much for *****NOTHING*****!

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              I don't care about any of that. I care about how incompetently THIS situation has been handled in an age where we can send a man into space.

              It's unforgivable.
              Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea do not send men into space--> it's called third world for a reason, Steve.

              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              Well, the spread of EBOLA could have been slowed down a LOT! It could have been WIPED OUT! And it wouldn't cost a PENNY! We are wasting all this money, and risking SO much for *****NOTHING*****!

              Steve
              It's not that easy, Steve. I have spent a week in Africa and my brother travels there regularly to speak at Christian conferences and ministries and to help out the locals. He has a church here in the US and he has another trip scheduled to Africa on the day after Thanksgiving.

              My family wants he and his wife to skip the mission this year but unless the flights are banned I doubt anything will hold him back. It's third world in a very large part of Africa, Steve. It's not an easy task doing many things over there as witnessed by this team of ebola aid workers getting basically wiped out in Guinea.

              When Guinean government officials visited the village of Womme in the country’s southeast, they planned to educate people about Ebola and show them how to avoid it — in a region where many still believe the virus doesn't exist.

              But it all went disastrously wrong.

              Villagers responded furiously, pelting the delegation with stones and beating the visitors with clubs, according to Guinean radio. The delegation, which included doctors and journalists, fled into the bush after the attack Tuesday.

              The Guinean government said Thursday that eight delegation members had been killed, including several journalists, news agencies reported. There also were reports that 21 people had been injured.
              A local police officer, Richard Haba, said the villagers believed that Ebola “is nothing more than an invention of white people to kill black people.”

              The incident underscores the challenges for local and international health teams fighting the Ebola virus in West Africa.
              The assault followed similar attacks against medical workers or health officials in several other villages and towns in recent weeks. Last month, riots erupted after a medical team sprayed a marketplace in the same region as rumors spread that it was a conspiracy to infect the population.

              Eight reported dead in attack on Ebola workers in Guinea - LA Times
              Cheers

              -don
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            That's a little harsh....humans have accomplished quite a lot to say the least.

            Cheers

            -don
            You can tell me how harsh it is when millions of us are gone from this menace.

            That's if you're one of the few left and I'm around to hear it.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              You can tell me how harsh it is when millions of us are gone from this menace.

              That's if you're one of the few left and I'm around to hear it.
              For millions to die from this in the US, the entire country would need to become an impoverished third world country with a complete breakdown of government and medical services. In Liberia, the dying are fending for themselves. The dead are lying around not be collected in a timely fashion. Many people arrive at a hospital and are turned away, infectious. Nothing is really being done to track it because the entire country is completely overwhelmed with the disease. More people are dying from Malaria and other diseases because what little medical care exists is overwhelmed with ebola.

              Read this if you think that's going to happen here
              As Ebola cases accelerate, Liberia

              In order to help prevent exporting it to other countries, the world needs to work together to eliminate the threat in Africa. Ebola isn't the fastest spreading disease or the easiest to catch by a long shot. You're more likely to die from flu in the US than from ebola.

              Every Newly Emerging Disease Like Ebola Begins With a Mystery
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                For millions to die from this in the US, the entire country would need to become an impoverished third world country with a complete breakdown of government and medical services. In Liberia, the dying are fending for themselves. The dead are lying around not be collected in a timely fashion. Many people arrive at a hospital and are turned away, infectious. Nothing is really being done to track it because the entire country is completely overwhelmed with the disease. More people are dying from Malaria and other diseases because what little medical care exists is overwhelmed with ebola.

                Read this if you think that's going to happen here
                As Ebola cases accelerate, Liberia

                In order to help prevent exporting it to other countries, the world needs to work together to eliminate the threat in Africa. Ebola isn't the fastest spreading disease or the easiest to catch by a long shot. You're more likely to die from flu in the US than from ebola.

                Every Newly Emerging Disease Like Ebola Begins With a Mystery
                While you make very good points, it doesn't change how badly this whole situation has been handled right from the start. And that our country is not banning flights into the US from these countries, IMO, is irresponsible and bordering on criminal.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  While you make very good points, it doesn't change how badly this whole situation has been handled right from the start. And that our country is not banning flights into the US from these countries, IMO, is irresponsible and bordering on criminal.
                  There's no doubt that mistakes have been made in Texas, but things have also been done right in Texas when compared to how it's done in Liberia. No one has come down with ebola from this infection, which did not originate from here. The most at risk people are quarantined for the appropriate amount of time and a lot of others are being monitored. If anyone of the closest people at risk do get it, they will be isolated and treated as well.

                  You can call the President all the bad names you want and throw little hissie fits, but the fact is, Americans aren't going to be dying from this disease any time soon and the way to stop ebola is to send worldwide help to stop ebola where ebola is running rampant, and that is the path that the President and a lot of very smart people will be taking. Turn this political and I'll just report. It has thus far been a fairly civilized non-political discussion.

                  You can agree or disagree that air travel should be restricted or banned from those countries affected, but the fact is ... it's not going to be most likely, and there are probably a whole host of reasons that we aren't privy to for that.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    There's no doubt that mistakes have been made in Texas, but things have also been done right in Texas when compared to how it's done in Liberia. No one has come down with ebola from this infection, which did not originate from here. The most at risk people are quarantined for the appropriate amount of time and a lot of others are being monitored. If anyone of the closest people at risk do get it, they will be isolated and treated as well.

                    You can call the President all the bad names you want and throw little hissie fits, but the fact is, Americans aren't going to be dying from this disease any time soon and the way to stop ebola is to send worldwide help to stop ebola where ebola is running rampant, and that is the path that the President and a lot of very smart people will be taking. Turn this political and I'll just report. It has thus far been a fairly civilized non-political discussion.

                    You can agree or disagree that air travel should be restricted or banned from those countries affected, but the fact is ... it's not going to be most likely, and there are probably a whole host of reasons that we aren't privy to for that.
                    What happens when a state gets hit with this that hasn't had to deal with it yet? Will they be prepared? What are we doing to make sure that each state is prepared? Is there training going on? Do we have specialized teams? Maybe designated facilities setup to take people to so that they're not mixed in with the general hospital population? Are contact lists going to be made and every attempt made to track down every person they came in contact with an quarantine them? What kind of resistance will they meet when they tell somebody they can't go our for X number of days?

                    There are so many variables involved in this that I am sure that I'm only thinking of a fraction of them.

                    Yes, I am hopeful this will be contained and eliminated.

                    But I am also not confident that it will.
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      What happens when a state gets hit with this that hasn't had to deal with it yet? Will they be prepared? What are we doing to make sure that each state is prepared? Is there training going on? Do we have specialized teams? Maybe designated facilities setup to take people to so that they're not mixed in with the general hospital population? Are contact lists going to be made and every attempt made to track down every person they came in contact with an quarantine them? What kind of resistance will they meet when they tell somebody they can't go our for X number of days?

                      There are so many variables involved in this that I am sure that I'm only thinking of a fraction of them.

                      Yes, I am hopeful this will be contained and eliminated.

                      But I am also not confident that it will.
                      Then panic. But it's not warranted. Every hospital has isolation units and no ebola patient would ever be put in non isolated units. Use your head Steve. You can see very well what Texas has done. They have quarantined those in direct contact and they are monitoring daily those in indirect contact who are very low risk. As for people not wanting to be quarantined who had direct contact, as you can see, it is enforced by law. They don't really have a choice in the matter.

                      As for training, the hospitals have been training staff for months now. I'm sure with all the press on the errors that Texas has made, those mistakes aren't going to be made again. This country has already had a number of ebola patients in our hospitals and so far none have died to given the disease to anyone else. This patient might die, but there is not going to be an epidemic here.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        Guinea banned bat eating back in March.
                        I wonder if that's like telling people in the South not to eat fried chicken? Ewww
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                          I wonder if that's like telling people in the South not to eat fried chicken? Ewww
                          Kay, I'm not even southern and don't anyone dare try to take fried chicken from me. lol. But these people are hungry, so are they going to take orders not to eat something that might be readily available?

                          One of the outbreaks years ago, it was determined that some hunters went out and came back with a chimp and they ate it. Turns out the chimp was dead when they found it. It had likely died of ebola.

                          Another outbreak way back ... some researchers went there and questioned people about it. Several of the people said what they thought was odd was that just outside of the village, there were 7 dead gorillas.

                          Since these are called fruit bats that we're talking about, it's likely the chimp and the gorillas are eating the same fruit as the bats are and I would think that the humans may be also.

                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                          Amazing - we don't have to send soldiers and build hospitals - we can just send boatloads of vitamin C. Cathcart died in 2007 - but his quotes are trotted out with every viral epidemic or incident. If those "cures" had worked.....don't you think they would have worked by now?

                          High dose vitamin C can cure Ebola virus disease? Not so fast... - Respectful Insolence
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
                          If only it were so simple. I won't trust my family's life with Vitamin C and little else.
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                          • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            If only it were so simple. I won't trust my family's life with Vitamin C and little else.
                            A while back I posted on the Facebook page of the loon who was claiming that high does of Vit C would cure Ebola. I offered to pay her airfare to Africa so she could go and treat all the Ebola cases with suitcases full of Vit C .... my post got deleted and she did not take up my offer .... go figure.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            That's a little harsh and a bit to general....humans have accomplished quite a lot to say the least. The health and longevity arenas are no exception...



            CDC Data:





            Cheers

            -don
            I don't care about any of that. I care about how incompetently THIS situation has been handled in an age where we can send a man into space.

            It's unforgivable.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I was thinking about this and reading up on the origins of ebola and while they don't really know what is the reservoir host of ebola, the animal or whatever where ebola lives when it's not actively killing people, in this article, there's evidence of a connection to fruit bats (to 3 different types of bats, actually). It appears that studies on those bats show that the bats have low levels of ebola RNA and are also effectively immune from ebola. People in Africa eat those bats.

    Far more gorillas and chimps have died from ebola in the same areas that people are dying from ebola. Another interesting fact. Not that they're the carriers ... but more likely they eat the fruit or come into contact with the bats.

    Fruit Bats Likely Hosts of Deadly Ebola Virus
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Guinea banned bat eating back in March.

    Guinea has forbidden the sale and consumption of bats and warned against eating rats and monkeys as the country combats a spread of Ebola, a hemorrhagic fever with a mortality rate of as much as 90 percent.

    We discovered the vector agent of the Ebola virus is the bat,” said Remy Lamah, the country’s health minister, in an interview from the town of N’zerekore today. “We sent messages everywhere to announce the ban. People must even avoid consumption of rats and monkeys. They are very dangerous animals.”

    Guinea Bans Bat Eating to Curb Ebola Spread, Warns on Rats - Bloomberg
    Traditional funerals, where bodies are washed by hand, have been linked to the spread of the disease, prompting authorities to ban them. The consumption of bat meat has also been forbidden: experts believe the disease – more common in Congo, Sudan and Uganda – is carried by bats, explaining how it crossed the continent.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...o-capital.html
    And as it has been during past Ebola outbreaks, bush meat is once again suspected to have been the bridge that caused the deadly disease to go from the animal world to the human one. All it takes is a single transmission event from animal to human — handling an uncooked bat with the virus, for example — to create an epidemic. Human-to-human contact then becomes the primary source of infection.
    According to Bausch, the spread of Ebola in West Africa is a toxic confluence of unfortunate events. Poverty, weak governance, domestic unrest and perhaps even weather have combined to create the worst Ebola outbreak in history.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...bola-concerns/
    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    that's a little over the top - sick people are criminals now?
    Man who brought Ebola to US facing prosecution

    The man who brought Ebola into the United States lied on his exit form so he could leave Liberia -- and now authorities in the West African nation want to prosecute him if he returns, government officials said Thursday.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The ironic thing though is that a lack of vitamin C can cause scurvy. Vitamin C can EASILY be used up, and is water soluble. It CAN'T really be stored. SCURVY presents in a similar way to ebola.

    BOTH have you bleeding from areas with mucous membrane. Of course, I would NEVER advocate it as a cure, or try it myself, but it is worth a try. It can't hurt and MIGHT help.

    It is ironic that MANY fatal diseases are NOT really "FATAL", but rather end up as fatal because of the body's attempt to fight them off, or because of symptoms that happen because of other symptoms.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    What struck me is that normal doses of Vitamin C are 500 to 1000 mg or maybe 2000 mg.
    Linus Pauling was an advocate of Vitamin C, but even he was - as I recall - suggesting
    2000 mg to 3000 mg for a healthy immune system.

    For Ebola they were talking 180 grams. Seems like there would be toxicity levels at 90 to
    180 time normal? Also, a side effect of too much Vitamin C can be diarrhea. Not something good
    for Ebola.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      What struck me is that normal doses of Vitamin C are 500 to 1000 mg or maybe 2000 mg.
      Linus Pauling was an advocate of Vitamin C, but even he was - as I recall - suggesting
      2000 mg to 3000 mg for a healthy immune system.

      For Ebola they were talking 180 grams. Seems like there would be toxicity levels at 90 to
      180 time normal? Also, a side effect of too much Vitamin C can be diarrhea. Not something good
      for Ebola.
      If I recall right, many are now saying like 5000 to 10,000, though the 10,000 would be multiple doses. YEAH, 180 GRAMS is WAY too much. Vitamin C is a VITAMIN and considered a MICRO nutrient. I think even 1GM defies that definition. And people are saying 5-10 GMs. And if you get diarrhea, you are excreting a lot of the vitamin C.

      STILL, tissues obviously react to vitamin C, and Scurvy is similar there. If Vitamin C could cause a person to live for even a few more days, they can avoid the final symptom, and SURVIVE! So it IS conceivable that Vitamin C could help. If there is a case where they don't have the special, and EXPENSIVE, TIME CONSUMING, and RARE, new drugs, it might be a good idea to try Vitamin C. In theory, they would have to take it BEFORE the last stage became obvious. And that IS the stage where there is NO doubt they have Ebola. So I hope they take a blood sample before trying it out, etc... so they can PROVE it was ebola.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        If I recall right, many are now saying like 5000 to 10,000, though the 10,000 would be multiple doses. YEAH, 180 GRAMS is WAY too much. Vitamin C is a VITAMIN and considered a MICRO nutrient. I think even 1GM defies that definition. And people are saying 5-10 GMs. And if you get diarrhea, you are excreting a lot of the vitamin C.

        STILL, tissues obviously react to vitamin C, and Scurvy is similar there. If Vitamin C could cause a person to live for even a few more days, they can avoid the final symptom, and SURVIVE! So it IS conceivable that Vitamin C could help. If there is a case where they don't have the special, and EXPENSIVE, TIME CONSUMING, and RARE, new drugs, it might be a good idea to try Vitamin C. In theory, they would have to take it BEFORE the last stage became obvious. And that IS the stage where there is NO doubt they have Ebola. So I hope they take a blood sample before trying it out, etc... so they can PROVE it was ebola.

        Steve
        This Doc felt he had to try something:

        Apparent success against Ebola with HIV drug in Liberia - CNN.com
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Those are forms of anti-viral drugs, aren't they? Smart thinking to try it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      What struck me is that normal doses of Vitamin C are 500 to 1000 mg or maybe 2000 mg.
      Linus Pauling was an advocate of Vitamin C, but even he was - as I recall - suggesting
      2000 mg to 3000 mg for a healthy immune system.

      For Ebola they were talking 180 grams. Seems like there would be toxicity levels at 90 to
      180 time normal? Also, a side effect of too much Vitamin C can be diarrhea. Not something good
      for Ebola.
      This is a stupid idea. Taking that much Ascorbic Acid is unnatural. Big Pharma trying to get you to take more vitamins.

      Well, I'm going to do it the natural way. 800 oranges a day should keep me healthy. Of course, this may all be a plot by "Big Fruit" to get us to buy lots of oranges and drive the price up.

      I've been trying to think of a way to bring Quantum Physics into this, but I've eaten 500 oranges today, and my brain is a little weak from Vitamin C toxicity.

      I've been reading about Vitamin C addiction.. There is a program where you replace the oranges with lemons. You still die from the massive doses of vitamin C...but your pee smells like Lemon Pledge.

      Anyway, I've been looking for a way to say "Big Pharma" in a post, without sounding like an idiot.

      I think my work is done here.


      Added later; First post where I've said "Big Pharma". It feels good, real good. I feel like one of the gang now.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Anyway, I've been looking for a way to say "Big Pharma" in a post, without sounding like an idiot.
        Do you seriously believe that using "big pharma", or even "quantum physics" is going to stop us thinking you're an idiot?
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      What struck me is that normal doses of Vitamin C are 500 to 1000 mg or maybe 2000 mg.
      Linus Pauling was an advocate of Vitamin C, but even he was - as I recall - suggesting
      2000 mg to 3000 mg for a healthy immune system.

      For Ebola they were talking 180 grams. Seems like there would be toxicity levels at 90 to
      180 time normal? Also, a side effect of too much Vitamin C can be diarrhea. Not something good
      for Ebola.
      Ascorbic acid form of Vitamin C at doses of 1000/IU will kill normal flu. You have to ask for it (infusion) when you are hospitalized, they don't just offer it. Not sure why, but....................

      Ebola? I would think it would help, but actually cure it? We already know when we're talking about the medical complex, they don't offer naturals. At all. Whether they work or not.

      A perfect virus isn't as virulent as ebola. Ebola replicates too fast for it's own survival -- it kills its host. It's also not "flu". If it were to mutate to a more perfect form that it would make people sick but not kill them, I'd try ascorbic acid to get rid of it. I use it when I feel flu hitting and never completely get flu. I wouldn't trust it for this one. This is a whacked bug and it's not actually "flu" from what I can understand.

      I think one of the things that should be being done right now is to find out what people were doing and eating before they came down with it - see if there's a common thread going in what people that survive the bug are doing different from those that are dying. I'd like to know, because I'd like to start doing that if the US becomes a hot spot. Right now I make sure my levels of D and C are high, and keep eating my probiotics and organic yogurt and blood purifiers, liver cleansers, for my immune system because when push comes to shove, you better hope that's set on max. Other than that -- we don't really know. I wouldn't claim to know. All I know is an immune system fights disease, and a compromised one is deadly with or without something like ebola to worry about.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Right now I make sure my levels of D and C are high, and keep eating my probiotics and organic yogurt and blood purifiers, liver cleansers, for my immune system because when push comes to shove, you better hope that's set on max. Other than that -- we don't really know. I wouldn't claim to know. All I know is an immune system fights disease, and a compromised one is deadly with or without something like ebola to worry about.
        Regarding the immune system and how ebola interracts and disables the immune system, this is a very interesting article.

        How Ebola-Infected Cells Evade the Immune System
        http://www.nasw.org/users/mslong/2010/2010_09/Ebola.htm
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Couldn't not try it.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @ Sal

    Derek Gatherer, a bioinformatics researcher (Lancaster University U.K.) that studies viral genetics and evolution has some thoughts on the biological markers that have been linked to ebola survival. Below are a few of them...

    In particular, the Ebola virus depletes immune cells called CD4 and CD8 T lymphocytes, which are crucial to the function of the immune system, Gatherer said
    Another marker linked with people's ability to survive Ebola is a gene called human leukocyte antigen-B, which makes a protein that is important in the immune system. A 2007 study found that people with certain versions of this gene, called B*07 and B*14, were more likely to survive Ebola, while people with other versions, called B*67 and B*15, were more likely to die.
    Finally, some people may be resistant to Ebola infection entirely, if they have a mutation in a gene called NPC1. Studies show that, when researchers take cells from people with the NPC1 mutation and try to infect them with Ebola in a laboratory dish, these cells are resistant to the virus.
    However, because these studies on Ebola resistance were done in a lab, it's not known for certain if carriers of the NPC1 are truly resistant to Ebola.

    Gatherer said that, hopefully, samples are being collected in the current outbreak so that researchers can conduct studies to better understand the virus and how to survive it.

    How do people survive Ebola? | Fox News[
    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    That's really interesting, Don. I haven't read the full link yet - just read your excerpts. Now I wonder how people know which of the genes they have. Hoping the article gives some indication when I read it (tomorrow am) about how we know which gene type we are. From my family history, I am hopeful, and almost convinced that I've got some pretty kick-butt genes going for me, but who knows.

    Thanks for that share.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Been reading. It seems that the areas that are getting hit hard with Ebola are places where the people are nutritionally deficient. CD4 and CD8 T lymphocytes are deficient in people with a lack of energy proteins, Vit A and Zinc. That would go along with a lot of aid in these countries that give kids doses of Vit A. Also with the fact that they don't get much in the line of animal protein. Conversely - those who get too much strenuous exercise may be low on their lymphocytes for up to 3 weeks after they quit the overly strenuous exercise. In atheletes these lymphocytes deplete for around 30 minutes after exercise than resume to normal if the exercise isn't continually over done.

    Interesting. Maybe the American diet will help to cut the spread of Ebola here.

    As far as the Alleles - (B*7 and B*14) - he's going to have to get further than that. There are so many that it would be hard to actually categorize who's going to get sick based on that - and you'd have to know which are indigenous to your own body. Some that are in the logs are so rare they've only been seen in one individual. 7 is only around 25% of people in Nova Scotia - very small percent elsewhere. There's got to be a better indicator that HLA's.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Do you think various medical labs and doctors and scientists are NOT testing and examining every bit of information about this virus? It is big news in the world of medical labs and medical research and every detail is being studied by virologists and sociologists and every other ologist that applies.

      If this were as simple as giving Vit C infusions, wouldn't that be wonderful? You know it isn't like that. This is a living virus that attacks the human body. Weak people will succumb in higher numbers - nothing new there.

      A closer look at vitamin injections « Science-Based Medicine

      We are highly unlikely to see an outbreak in this country because we understand isolation of a virus and have the facilities to do isolation of patients. We don't have the fear and distrust of villagers in a third world country that try to hide the disease.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Interesting. Maybe the American diet will help to cut the spread of Ebola here.
      Yeah, I'd avoid eating bats, gorillas, chimps, and monkeys right now. Much as I love a good spicy bat soup and gorilla steaks on the grill, I think I'll give it up for now. I'd also avoid eating the fruits that bats and apes eat, because they can contaminate the fruit. I think I'll stay out of caves and mines too.


      Outbreaks Chronology: Ebola Virus Disease | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

      1996-1997: Occurred in Booué area with transport of patients to Libreville. Index case-patient was a hunter who lived in a forest camp. Disease was spread by close contact with infected persons. A dead chimpanzee found in the forest at the time was determined to be infected.
      1996: Occured in Mayibout area. A chimpanzee found dead in the forest was eaten by people hunting for food. Nineteen people who were involved in the butchery of the animal became ill; other cases occured in family members.
      1995: Occured in Kikwit and surrounding area. Traced to index case-patient who worked in forest adjoining the city. Epidemic spread through families and hospitals
      1994: Scientist became ill after conducting an autopsy on a wild chimpanzee in the Tai Forest. The patient was treated in Switzerland.
      1994 Ebola: Occured in Mékouka and other gold-mining camps deep in the rain forest. Initially thought to be yellow fever; identified as Ebola hemorrhagic fever in 1995.
      http://oxfordmedicine.com/view/10.10...28-chapter-031

      ...In addition, the killing and preparing of non-human primates for food was considered the source of SOMP outbreaks.
      ....The primary cases occurred through contact with kidney tissue, blood, and cell cultures derived from Vervet or African green monkeys (Ceropithecus aethiops) imported from Uganda.
      ......The Kenyan cases had included visits to bat infested Kitum caves in Kenya’s Mount Elgon National Park (Gear et al. 1975; Smith et al. 1982; Teepe et al. 1983; Johnson et al. 1996) (Table 31.1).
      Between late 1998 and 2000 in Democratic Republic of the Congo the first large outbreak of this disease under natural conditions occurred, which involved 154 cases, of which 128 were fatal, representing a case fatality rate of 83%. The majority of cases occurred in young male workers at a gold mine in Durba, in the northeastern part of the country, which proved to be the epicentre of the outbreak.

      From June to August 2007, three confirmed cases occurred amongst mineworkers working in Kamwenge, western Uganda were identified. Of the two miners who cared for the index case who died, one also suffered a fatal illness (WHO 2007).

      In July 2008, a Dutch tourist developed Marburg four days after returning to the Netherlands from a three-week holiday in Uganda. The source of the exposure has not been determined, although the woman had visited caves in Maramagambo Forest western Uganda at the southern edge of Queen Elizabeth National park, where bats were present (WHO 2008; Timen 2009).
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Global threat of Ebola: From the US to China, scientists plot spread of deadly disease across the world from its West African hotbed

    Interesting article. I think it's pretty clear that it's in the best interest of every country to provide aid to stop the West Africa epidemic as soon as possible.

    Ebola could hit UK 'within three weeks', scientists warn | Daily Mail Online

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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Another interesting development.

    Drugmaker provides experimental drug for Ebola use | Boston Herald


    WASHINGTON — A North Carolina drugmaker says it is providing an experimental antiviral drug for patients with Ebola, an emergency step authorized by the Food and Drug Administration.

    Chimerix Inc. says physicians sought federal permission to use company's drug, called brincidofovir, which is in late-stage testing for other types of viruses. The company did not identify the physicians making the request.

    Last Tuesday doctors in Dallas diagnosed the first U.S. case of Ebola in a man who recently arrived from Liberia.

    Brincidofovir is an oral antiviral drug being tested to fight more common viruses, including one that infects patients undergoing bone marrow transplants. Laboratory tests suggested it might also fight Ebola.

    Two other experimental drugs developed specifically for Ebola have been used in American patients. None have been approved by the FDA.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Monsanto is teamed up with the pharm making the gene-silencing drug.
    The Best Investment For The Fight Against Ebola - NASDAQ.com

    I'm sure that not eating animals that have ebola is a good idea, and something that the people over there do. Many are starving and don't have much to eat. I was just finding it interesting that the particular elements that are lacking that create T cell deficiencies are the energy proteins, zinc....and particularly vitamin A...which is something that the aid missions always stock up on to give to the people because of the shortages there.

    It's also interesting that if there are genes that allow the disease to progress by hindering T cell production that one company --- one that has been making toxic poison for 100 years, and now is creating toxic food...........has the technology and know how to silence genes. Go figure.

    Everyone here that knows me knows I am not fond of pharmaceuticals with side effects that are the same as what they are supposed to control - especially untested ones. I was a guinea pig for one of those once and it was not a good time. However - we're talking about a possible pandemic, super deadly bug.

    Nobody is talking about hooking people on a lifetime of pharmaceuticals - this is a matter of giving people with little chance otherwise something for a few days to kill a bug that most likely won't leave them alive - and maybe not functioning correctly after that if they survive. It's a chance to kill the outbreak before it wipes out 50% of the people on a planet - and several other animal species. If it's a gene silencer...well Monsanto's an expert at that, if nothing else.

    While I am fully and aggressively insistent we have better chances when we build our immune systems naturally.......um........if you aren't already doing that when this crap comes around, you don't have time for that. We also know that it still plays hell on people who's immune systems are buffed enough that they survive the bug. Depending on having the right genes as I pointed out in a previous post is a crap shoot at best. I say try the drug.

    That's right. You heard me say that. Right out loud.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I say try the drug.

      That's right. You heard me say that. Right out loud.
      Texas Ebola patient gets experimental drug

      The Texas patient has just been given an experimental anti-viral that hasn't yet been tested on animals or humans, but is in Phase 3 trials.

      I wish him well and hope it helps. He's still critical, but stable at this time.

      EDIT: It has been tested in humans.
      Brincidofovir was developed by Chimerix Inc, which said it has been tested in more than 1,000 patients without raising safety concerns. "Chimerix has brincidofovir tablets available for immediate use in clinical trials," the company said in a statement.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Interesting, Suzanne. That's a different one than I just linked to. Anyhow - I think they're doing the right thing this time. If it were a just a regular flu outbreak, I'd be furious. This isn't just a nasty flu, though. And the more people that get it, the stronger the chance it will mutate to an airborne infection, so I think we need to take chances that we wouldn't normally take in stopping it.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    BBC News - Ebola outbreak: Nurse infected in Spain

    A nurse in Spain who treated an Ebola patient there had contracted the disease.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    So Derek - weigh in on this one, please. What's your take on the situation?
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Sal, this is definitely going to get people thinking about the risks of repatriating their nationals with Ebola home for treatment. There will definitely be some disquiet among unions of health care workers. However, you are unlikely to get large scale outbreaks because the health care systems are much more advanced than in Africa.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        Sal, this is definitely going to get people thinking about the risks of repatriating their nationals with Ebola home for treatment. There will definitely be some disquiet among unions of health care workers. However, you are unlikely to get large scale outbreaks because the health care systems are much more advanced than in Africa.
        I was reading an article that people in Liberian/other communities in the US are now rethinking allowing relatives from ebola stricken places to come here to visit them during this outbreak.

        This is the critical week in the Texas case. If the close contacts make it through this week without infection, they are more than likely not going to get it, although there's still a small chance that they could. The symptoms usually show between 8-10 days and we're already at 12 days since he first went to the hospital and 13-14 days since he likely felt a bit sick and had a fever.

        Read an pretty remarkable article about the Firestone plant in Liberia
        Firestone Did What Governments Have Not: Stopped Ebola In Its Tracks : Goats and Soda : NPR
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Thomas Duncan died this morning.

          Yesterday, I heard the woman who was at the hospital with Duncan the first time. She was telling the reporter what she had said to a nurse.

          She said "I tell them he from viral country" and "need mask" - her accent was so strong it was hard to understand what she was saying. "From viral country" is not the same as "from Liberia" and the word "mask" was pronounced just like mosque. Maybe it's not so far fetched the hospital personnel didn't understand the message.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Thomas Duncan died this morning.

            She said "I tell them he from viral country" and "need mask" - her accent was so strong it was hard to understand what she was saying. "From viral country" is not the same as "from Liberia" and the word "mask" was pronounced just like mosque. Maybe it's not so far fetched the hospital personnel didn't understand the message.
            I was hoping he'd make it, but really, hospital personnel have to get a whole lot better at screening. I'm sorry, but "he from viral country" spoken by black female with strong Liberian accent should be enough of a red flag to anyone listening carefully. It's really in our own best interest to get better at this.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              I agree - just saying I understood how it could happen. Some hospitals are running drills by hiring people to show up with certain symptoms to see if staff flags it. That's a good idea.
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              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                I agree - just saying I understood how it could happen. Some hospitals are running drills by hiring people to show up with certain symptoms to see if staff flags it. That's a good idea.
                I heard that one flag is temperature over 101.5.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                I agree - just saying I understood how it could happen. Some hospitals are running drills by hiring people to show up with certain symptoms to see if staff flags it. That's a good idea.
                Not that there's anything good in this story ... it's sad to me, but at least the hospitals are taking notice and having training and drills and preparing their isolation areas for the real thing. It can only help to make us more prepared in the long run.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Jesse Jackson traveled to Texas to make sure Duncan was getting proper care?
                  Really? Does he seriously believe doctors didn't do everything possible to save this man? Maybe Jesse should jog over the Liberia and help out there?

                  Or maybe he should raise money to pay the estimated 500k hospital bill as Mr Duncan had no health insurance.

                  There are people on blogs already claiming Duncan wasn't cared for properly and on and on...it'ts disgusting to read that stuff.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    Jesse Jackson traveled to Texas to make sure Duncan was getting proper care?
                    Really? Does he seriously believe doctors didn't do everything possible to save this man? Maybe Jesse should jog over the Liberia and help out there?

                    Or maybe he should raise money to pay the estimated 500k hospital bill as Mr Duncan had no health insurance.

                    There are people on blogs already claiming Duncan wasn't cared for properly and on and on...it'ts disgusting to read that stuff.
                    Yeah .. I was pretty disgusted to read that too. #1...the sense of entitlement that implies is dumbfounding. We have people who are citizens here who don't get good care because they have no health insurance.

                    An article quoted Duncan as saying that he's very sorry he came here and put "the love of his life's life at risk." Duh .... and the hospital staff and the ambulance staff and his own son and other relatives and about 50 other people who live in fear and have to take their temperature twice a day for 21 days.

                    That makes me mad, but not angry enough to be glad he's gone, but honestly, doesn't Jackson have anything constructive to do with his time?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      And today the "love of his life" (that he hadn't seen for 16 yrs according to the news stories) is "angry his son wasn't allowed to see his father". Not a word of thanks for those who risked their own lives to take care of this man.

                      Meanwhile, in Spain a much loved dog is put to sleep in case he might have contracted ebola....no quarantine for him. How disgusting.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan dies at Dallas hospital
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Second Possible Ebola Case Reported In Texas

    A person who is said to have had contact with Dallas Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan was taken to the hospital after reporting feeling ill, the city of Frisco, Texas, announced Wednesday.

    NBC Dallas-Fort Worth reported that the person showing symptoms is an employee of the Dallas County Sheriff's Office, and had been in the apartment Duncan was staying in before he was hospitalized Sept. 28. Duncan passed away Wednesday morning.

    WFAA reported that the patient is Sgt. Michael Monnig, and that Monnig went into the apartment unit without wearing protective gear in order to have a quarantine order signed.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I saw that and don't get the without protective gear part.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        I saw that and don't get the without protective gear part.
        All I can say is Texas handled this like idiots. Not cleaning that apartment and sending in a cop to get a quarantine order signed. In addition, the hospital did not provide blood transfusions from a recovered ebola victim. All of the other eobla patients have gotten that.

        Did you see the reports where they were spray washing, without hazmat gear on, the sidewalk that Duncan vomited all over, just power spraying vomit with plain water and washing it down the drain? Not even gloves on.




        Here's some other officials who visited the contaminated apartment. See any protective gear here?


        If I were this sheriff, I'd insist on being transported to an out of state hospital that knows what it's doing. His life is on the line if he stays at the same hospital, if it turns out he has ebola.

        I've reached out to the hospital many times and said "Is he getting a transfusion if not, why isn't he?" and hay haven't responded to my e-mails. His family said they were told a blood transfusion wasn't proven to be effective so he wasn't going to get one.
        Can't wait to see how Texas handles the remains.

        The body of Thomas Eric Duncan,the first person to die of Ebola in the U.S., will be cremated, Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Centers said today.

        Duncan's body will be enclosed in two bags and the bags will then be disinfected, the hospital said in a statement today.

        "After that careful preparation, the body will be cremated. CDC guidelines say remains infected with Ebola can be cremated or 'buried promptly in a hermetically sealed casket,'" the statement said.

        The hospital said that because of the preparations "the body can be transported without the need for protective gear for a driver or others who are near the body but don't handle the remains."

        According to CDC documents, only people trained in handling infected human remains and wearing proper safety gear should touch or move any Ebola-infected remains. Handling and transportation should be kept to a minimum and an autopsy should be avoided unless absolutely essential.

        The body should not be washed or cleaned in any way and should be wrapped in plastic to prevent contamination. Following the removal of the body, the hospital room should be thoroughly disinfected. So long as the body is safely shrouded in plastic, any transport drivers do not need to wear protective gear.

        Once the body arrives at the mortuary, the agency does not recommend embalming. The shrouded body should be placed directly into a hermetically sealed casket by trained mortuary personnel wearing head-to-toe protective gear. The remains should then be immediately buried or cremated.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          In addition, the hospital did not provide blood transfusions from a recovered ebola victim. All of the other eobla patients have gotten that.
          No - only the most recent ones got the transfusions - and they don't even know if it helps. Duncan received an experimental drug - it wasn't the one his girlfriend was demanding because there was NONE of that left after the first two patients were treated.

          If ebola were not deadly, people would not be so afraid of it. Just because doctors in the US have been able to save a few patients doesn't mean they can save them all.

          They had to get a quarantine order signed - because the family refused to stay in the apartment when ask to do so. Instead - they went to the grocery store.

          We don't know this man's health history or his medical situation before he got the disease or what his diet and immune system were before he came here. He got better treatment in the US than he would have gotten in Liberia - that's a fact.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            No - only the most recent ones got the transfusions - and they don't even know if it helps. Duncan received an experimental drug - it wasn't the one his girlfriend was demanding because there was NONE of that left after the first two patients were treated.
            He received that after he was critical. Far from ideal. The NBC cameraman is receiving the same drug, but he got it right away.

            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            They had to get a quarantine order signed - because the family refused to stay in the apartment when ask to do so. Instead - they went to the grocery store.
            Seems a no brainer to me that you don't send staff without protective gear to ebola contaminated apartments.

            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            He got better treatment in the US than he would have gotten in Liberia - that's a fact.
            He's still just as dead as he would have been in Liberia. So far, he's the only one in the US who has died.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              No - he did not get the drug she was demanding - there isn't any of it left and won't be more for months. There was enough to treat the first two victims. He was given a different experimental drug that's now being used.

              Difference for Mr Duncan was the time frame. The other people developed ebola in a place where they were dealing with those symptoms daily so they recognized their symptoms and got help immediately. He had basically 4-5 days untreated and that gave the disease a head start.

              The crucial error was the 'treat and release' emergency room visit. I wonder if his lack of medical insurance had anything to do with that?
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                No - he did not get the drug she was demanding - there isn't any of it left and won't be more for months. There was enough to treat the first two victims. He was given a different experimental drug that's now being used.
                That's irrelevant. What's relevant is that Texas botched this up from day 1 and to allow Texas to handle any more ebola cases is foolhardy. Contaminated apartment, lack of protective gear for deputy, power washing contaminated body fluids from the sidewalk, sending him home to begin with ... all of that suggests that Texas either doesn't take it seriously, or is too incompetent to handle ebola.

                The first drug, ZMapp ... irrelevant. It is experimental and the priest who got ebola was given ZMapp and died, so ZMapp is not a cure.

                The crucial error was the 'treat and release' emergency room visit. I wonder if his lack of medical insurance had anything to do with that?[/QUOTE]

                Any person who comes here from the hot zone and ends up in our hospitals is not going to have insurance unless they are Americans returning home. They still have to be treated insurance or not. It's obviously in our own best interests that they not return to a community to spread infection.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      The tests were negative, he does not have Ebola.

      Cheers

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        The tests were negative, he does not have Ebola.

        Cheers

        -don
        That's good news to hear.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          The problem now is news media is reporting any testing as "possible ebola" and scaring the crap out of people.

          Sadly , many who see the "possible case of ebola" will never see the followup that says "it wasn't ebola" because that's not big news.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            The problem now is news media is reporting any testing as "possible ebola" and scaring the crap out of people.

            Sadly , many who see the "possible case of ebola" will never see the followup that says "it wasn't ebola" because that's not big news.
            There's been over 5,000 "possible cases of ebola" since the Texas case came to light. Most of them have not been reported, but people who are following these stories follow them to the end. I already knew the second Texas case was not ebola, and anyone who watches any news at all should also know it (not that I don't appreciate Don posting it in case someone missed it).

            Also just read of the Macedonia case that has resulted in a death, not yet confirmed to be ebola, but suspected. An entire hotel is shut down.

            Ebola: Foreign Office investigating reports of death of Briton in Macedonia | World news | The Guardian

            Following what's happening in Spain as well since the nurse has reported that she contacted the health officials three times with symptoms and fever before they took her seriously and hospitalized her.

            I'm just glad to hear that they are stepping up airport screenings in the US and the UK at least.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Well, it was only a matter of time. This is now going to bring out all the idiots.

              Just saw on the news here in NJ that a guy was on a plane, sneezed and then screamed out "I have Ebola. I've been to Africa."

              Didn't catch all of the story but it appears officials held up the plane to check this nut case out. Don't know if he was arrested or not but he should be. Anybody who does this as a prank to cause a panic should be charged with some kind of crime and make the punishment severe enough that idiots like him won't try this.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Well, it was only a matter of time. This is now going to bring out all the idiots.

                Just saw on the news here in NJ that a guy was on a plane, sneezed and then screamed out "I have Ebola. I've been to Africa."

                Didn't catch all of the story but it appears officials held up the plane to check this nut case out. Don't know if he was arrested or not but he should be. Anybody who does this as a prank to cause a panic should be charged with some kind of crime and make the punishment severe enough that idiots like him won't try this.
                Saw that. They sent guys in hazmat suits and the plane was delayed for hours. I was discussing this story with my brother (who has a bizarre and some might say ... sick ... sense of humor). His fix for this problem is to put buttons on each seat so that other passengers can eject anyone who sneezes or looks sick or makes an inappropriate joke, such as this one.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Way too careless.

    The body of a dead Ebola patient is highly contagious.
    I'd prefer they cremate at the hospital.

    If I were the deputy, I'd be wanting to go to the Nebraska hospital.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    I guess he won't be facing any charges

    Only now, the US and Canada are going to begin screening travellers for Ebola.

    The news came as Canada and United States announced that they will begin screening travellers for Ebola.

    The U.S. screening will take place at five major U.S. airports starting this weekend. Duncan’s apparent lying on a health questionnaire at the airport in Monrovia, the Liberian capital, had heightened concerns over U.S. over-reliance on their West African counterparts to screen passengers and contain the worst Ebola outbreak on record.
    Source: Texas Ebola patient dies as Canada, U.S. unveil screening plans

    ETA: I feel bad that he died, but I'm furious that he lied in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    That's good to know, Jody. Now if we could just get them to close the South border where illegals just walking in every day are bringing other diseases in, too. Entrovirus...effecting kids in around 10 states now (maybe more, that was the last time I looked).......and brought to you by your friendly illegal immigration train.

    We need to stop the politically correct, no profiling bull shyte and start taking care of our people or this isn't the only virus/disease we're going to have to worry about.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Texas botched this up from day 1
      Yes, they did. But I think the CDC takes some of the blame, too. They were called in immediately - and THEY did nothing about cleaning up contaminated apt either. That shocked me more than the Texas hospital response.

      I would expect in a case like this for the CDC to come in and take over - and it seemed like no one was running the show.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Sal -


        That enterovirus is more dangerous to us than ebola - and is spreading.

        The deadly Enterovirus is affecting countless children throughout the United States – many many more than ever before. I believe that it is now in all 50 states, or close to it.

        According to the Journal of General Virology, the Enterovirus strain (EV-D68) has been very rare in the United States. Apparently only 26 clinical cases between 1970 until fairly recently – have been reported here.

        What has changed this year??
        Answer: Tens of thousands of illegal immigrant children have swarmed into the United States through our open-border to the south, and there has been high concern regarding the disease which is being brought into the United States as a result. Border agents have even been warning about potential virus outbreaks – but the message is falling upon deaf ears in the media and government.
        Undocumented Immigrants bringing diseases across border? - ABC15 Arizona


        The link above was a warning by border patrol agents, it says. If this enterovirus came up from central America ...it sure didn't help to move those illegals to towns all over the country.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Sal -


          That enterovirus is more dangerous to us than ebola - and is spreading.

          Undocumented Immigrants bringing diseases across border? - ABC15 Arizona


          The link above was a warning by border patrol agents, it says. If this enterovirus came up from central America ...it sure didn't help to move those illegals to towns all over the country.
          Please don't ask for a link because I don't have time to go back over all the research I've been doing right now, but I've been watching the vaccine issues and illness issues, etc. It seems that kids that have only had a few basic vaccines or none are not getting entrovirus.

          While I have nothing against getting a few vaccines, our kids are now getting up to 49, and they are being vaccinated as babies - there's no immune system left in our kids. Vaccines create "immunity" to only one particular disease, and they throw off the body's natural immune reactions. I saw the info about entrovirus hitting only kids with few or no vaccines and I'm trying to confirm that. It makes sense to me, though. Parent's that insist on heavy vaccinating should get those kids straight into heavy metal detox right as soon as they get those vaccines.

          Also what worries me is that kids with the best and strongest immune systems were breastfed. Kids need those natural nurtrients/enzymes/etc in their first months to build normally functioning immune systems - and many kids aren't getting it. They're getting fed bottled formulas with GMOs and fake sugar and other chemicals.

          I'd love to be able to get a list of the kids affected with entrovirus and find out whether they are highly vaccinated and/or bottle fed.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            EV-D68: The (Not) New Disease to (Not) Panic About

            First, some simple facts. The "EV" in EV-D68 stands for "enterovirus." The "D" signifies that this particular strain is in the enterovirus D genus, and the 68 means it's the 68th such virus identified. So the scary sounding name is really just an identifier for what exactly we're dealing with, not some super-secret code name or government designation.

            With that out of the way, what's an enterovirus? Essentially, it's a general term for a virus that starts in the intestinal tract. They're divided by two types, polio and non-polio. The first, obviously, is what causes polio. The other, nonpolio enterovirus, is responsible for everything from the common cold to pericarditis to hand, foot and mouth disease. It's also the cause of non-polio paralysis that's been wrongly linked to the Gates Foundation's vaccination campaign in Africa.

            Millions of Americans deal with an enterovirus every year, usually manifesting itself as a cold. Most people recover from them quickly without medical intervention, but occasionally they can become much more serious, requiring hospitalization. The most efficient way to prevent coming down with an enterovirus is good hygiene - washing your hands with hot water and soap, covering your mouth when you cough or sneeze and not going to work when sick.

            This particular strain was discovered in California in 1962, and while rare, has cropped up in small clusters in the US before. According to the CDC, there were 79 reports of EV-D68 between 2009 and 2013. It's also likely there were more cases of it, but the vast majority of colds and lingering bugs are never tested, so we never find out what strain of enterovirus they are. What we're dealing with is basically a rarer strain of the same common cold that hits US schools every late-summer and early fall, when kids are going back into confined spaces with a lot of other kids, and maybe not always washing their hands when they go to the bathroom.

            While it's certainly terrifying for the parents of any child who has to be hospitalized because of it, some kind of cold strain hits young kids every year around this time. Yes, this particular one is more rare and more serious, but it's nothing that professionals who deal with infectious diseases don't recognize and prepare for.

            Of course, medical professionals not panicking over something doesn't mean anyone else won't. And if you judge this outbreak solely by the headlines on mainstream news sites, it's much worse than it actually is. A simple search for EV-D68 brings up scare headlines like:

            Virus hospitalizes hundreds of kids in Midwest and South - The Washington Post
            Rare Respiratory Virus EV-D68 Spreads to Northeast - Gawker
            Mystery Virus EV D68 Still Plaguing At Least 12 States - Weather.com
            Virus hitting the U.S. could be 'tip of iceberg,' CDC official says - CNN Health
            Serious respiratory virus, EV D68, confirmed in Albany - Albany Times Union

            All of these headlines, while technically true (it is rare, it can be serious, kids have gone to the hospital) are misleading. One imagines a rapidly-spreading plague killing everyone in its path, and that's just not what we're dealing with.

            The farther to the fringes you go when looking for news about EV-D68, the fringier the news gets. One especially nonsensical and incredibly racist strain of nonsense blames the spread of the virus on illegal immigration, specifically the tens of thousands of unaccompanied children from Latin America attempting to cross into the US through Mexico - children who are supposedly unvaccinated and carrying all sorts of horrible diseases with them.

            While a debate about what to do regarding illegal immigration isn't germane to this post (nor appropriate for Skeptoid), this particular strain of Brown Scare can be easily debunked.

            I couldn't find any reputable source that identifies any kind of unusual outbreak or cluster of EV-D68 in any Central or South American country, though there have been outbreaks in Japan and Europe. Anyone who claims that enteroviruses are "common" in countries of origin for immigrants is cherry picking, since they're common everywhere (again, we're dealing with the common cold here.) Additionally, the outbreaks of EV-D68 have been mostly in states far from the border - places like Missouri, Illinois, Kansas and Colorado. There have been (as of now) no confirmed cases reported in states where most of these children are.

            Of course, whenever you start talking about children and vaccines, there will be as many people who blame the outbreak on kids who HAVE been vaccinated. And so our friends at Natural News and InfoWars have been publishing scare stories about how the virus is "exploding" among "vaccinated children." This is true, since the vast majority of children who happen to have come down with the virus also happen to be vaccinated. It's also true that the virus is "exploding" among children with two eyes, ten fingers and ten toes - since the vast majority of children have two eyes, ten fingers and ten toes. Are either of those completely true facts relevant to the spread of EV-D68? From a scientific standpoint, no, they aren't.

            To try and link vaccination with the common cold is typical anti-vax nonsense. Vaccination doesn't make kids "more vulnerable" to getting a cold. There's no scientific reason why that would be true. Additionally, many of the sites linking EV-D68 with vaccination are also quick to point out that thousands of unvaccinated children are crossing from Mexico into the US. This is typical of the cognitive dissonance that addles the brains of conspiracy theorists - both vaccinating and not vaccinating are the cause of a pandemic.
            EV-D68: The (Not) New Disease to (Not) Panic About | Skeptoid
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Yes, they did. But I think the CDC takes some of the blame, too. They were called in immediately - and THEY did nothing about cleaning up contaminated apt either. That shocked me more than the Texas hospital response.

        I would expect in a case like this for the CDC to come in and take over - and it seemed like no one was running the show.
        The CDC does not come in and take over. They are a government agency and their function is information, coordination and research. It is going to be up to the hospitals and state and local governments to implement that.

        Primary Functions of the CDC
        The CDC is actually comprised of several distinct agencies with different functions, including the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health and six coordinating centers:

        -the Coordinating Center for Environmental Health and Injury Prevention, which deals with pollutants and occupational health;
        -the Coordinating Center for Health Information Service, a resource for credible, timely health information;
        -the Coordinating Center for Health Promotion, which encourages healthy living;
        -the Coordinating Center for Infectious Diseases;
        -the Coordinating Office for Global Health, which works with foreign governments and non-governmental organizations to foster health care worldwide;and
        -the Coordinating Office for Terrorism Preparedness and Emergency Response.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Seems to me we better be watchful of it:

    ........Many viral infections can, in rare cases, infiltrate and damage the spinal cord and central nervous system: i.e. West Nile Virus, Echoviruses, and Adenoviruses. The most commonly associated virus with acute paralysis is Poliovirus. The genus Enterovirus actually contains both enterovirus D68 and the three types of Poliovirus. However, it should be known that paralysis associated with enterovirus D68 has been almost unseen, until now.

    According to a CDC MMWR enterovirus summary report, the first case of enterovirus D68 entering the central nervous system was reported in 2005[iv]. This patient presented with acute flaccid paralysis. Before the outbreak became more widespread, there were cases of enterovirus D68 linked to acute flaccid paralysis in California between August 2012 and July 2013[v].

    It is uncertain if paralysis-linked to enterovirus D68 is as rare and only-recently seen as described. The complicating factor is that (non-polio) acute-flaccid paralysis is not a nationally notifiable disease[vi]. Because of this, we do not have ‘baseline’ numbers for paralysis in the either the greater population or in children. Cases continue to be investigated at the practitioner level, but the data is not aggregated at the national level like some of the other notifiable diseases.
    (bold is mine)

    "Until now" ........does this indicate virus morphing?

    Enterovirus D68 and Paralysis | HealthMap

    They have references about the virus from pubmed and the CDC if anyone wants to study the issue in greater detail.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    'I touched my face with gloves': nurse with Ebola - The Local

    Note that the sanitation team member has a protective suit on.
    I hope that's an indication that Spain handles this thing well.

    After looking at this and the pictures Suzanne posted in #228 and noting the lack of
    protective clothing, and the other things that could have been handled better,
    I can't help but wonder if our federal, state and local systems of government
    unintentionally create a missing a link when it comes to command and control
    of a situation like this.

    I'm not being political here, just looking at this from an organizational perspective.
    There needs to be someone calling the shots, establishing protocols, and seeing
    that the protocols are followed. Say, "Get the quarantine papers signed, and do
    it with protective gear on."... "Sanitize areas following these procedures"...

    <><><><><><><><><><>

    About the nurse's dog in Spain, I also thought just quarantine it. It's been a few hours
    since I've read the latest on that issue, but I've realized that as sad as it is, there is
    the possibility that the dog could be a carrier and never get sick. They seem to think
    the bats are just hosts. Maybe it's the same with dogs. Sorry.

    <><><><><><><><><><>

    This is the first time - I think - that I've read Thelocal.com. It seems good. I like the layout and the
    local noticeboard as well as the coverage.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      I think the case in Spain is much more worrying than the case in the US. With the ease of air travel today, you are bound to get the occasional case in other countries. However in the case of Spain, you have a developed country where full precautions were supposed to be taken. I am surprised that they allowed a nursing assistant to be involved in the care of a patient. I would have thought that more senior staff should have been involved who have more training and medical knowledge.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        I think the case in Spain is much more worrying than the case in the US. With the ease of air travel today, you are bound to get the occasional case in other countries. However in the case of Spain, you have a developed country where full precautions were supposed to be taken. I am surprised that they allowed a nursing assistant to be involved in the care of a patient. I would have thought that more senior staff should have been involved who have more training and medical knowledge.

        Ebola fears in Cairns for woman who treated patients in Sierra Leone | World news | theguardian.com

        A Red Cross nurse in far north Queensland is undergoing tests in an isolation unit to see if she is suffering from Australia's first case of Ebola.

        The nurse, named in the media as Sue-Ellen Kovack, 57, returned to Australia on Tuesday after a month working in Sierra Leone, one of the countries hardest hit by the epidemic which has so far claimed almost 3,900 lives across five west African countries.

        She was under observation in Cairns hospital, Queensland's chief health officer, Jeanette Young, confirmed.

        She had been kept in home isolation and was admitted to hospital with a low-grade fever on Thursday.

        Young emphasised there was zero risk to the Cairns community of infection as the nurse had followed protocols when returning to Australia.

        "She has not been out in the community in Cairns. She has been at home, isolated in her own home, testing herself," she said.

        The head of the Australian Red Cross international program, Peter Walton, said the nurse remained upbeat despite her situation.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The Center For Disease Control Explains Why Infections Are Spreading In One Graphic
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Really good news for the NBC cameraman
    Ebola-Stricken NBC News Freelancer Ashoka Mukpo 'Turned the Corner'
    Ebola-Stricken NBC News Freelancer Ashoka Mukpo 'Turned the Corner' - NBC News

    This story pisses me off though. These are intelligent people who agreed to self quarantine and then didn't and now they are in mandated quarantine

    New Jersey enforces mandatory quarantine for NBC crew exposed to Ebola, including Dr. Nancy Snyderman | WJLA.com

    Looks like the Spanish patient is doing ok too
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0HZ0U920141011
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    BBC News - Positive Ebola test at US hospital

    Texas health care worker tests positive for Ebola at hospital which looked after victim Thomas Duncan, officials say
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      BBC News - Positive Ebola test at US hospital

      Texas health care worker tests positive for Ebola at hospital which looked after victim Thomas Duncan, officials say
      That's disturbing. I sort of expected one or more of the family to maybe test positive, but did not expect a health care worker. I wonder if it's a worker who had contact before or after they knew he had Ebola. If I were that worker, I'd insist on care at a different facility, like in Nebraska. I don't trust that hospital in Texas.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The worker was involved in Duncan's second visit to the hospital, when he was admitted for treatment, and was wearing protective gear as prescribed by the CDC -- gown, gloves, mask and shield, Varga said.
        It's a preliminary test and the confirmation won't come till later today. Will be frightening for that person but also for everyone else exposed. to Duncan.

        I've thought it odd no one from his first visit seems to have any problems. Maybe the disease isn't that infectious when the symptoms first begin?
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  • Profile picture of the author karlstech
    How many reported cases have there been in the US so far? Haven't been following the news in the past few days.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    They overreacted with the hazmat suits! I mean the guy could have infected everyone, and/or the plane, and they send like 4 people in stumbling over themselves in hazmat suits. they should have had one guy outside the plane, and asked the guy to come out. OTHERWISE, he could have ripped a hazmat suit and endangered the person. If he wouldn't come out, he could just have everyone ELSE come out and take another flight.

    As for the bacteria in cattle? It is a WELL KNOWN FACT that the WORST such bacteria was grown in hospitals. Maybe that is even where the DR STDs were created. They REALLY need to fix the hospitals. MRSA infection Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      The truth is this is a highly infectious (no matter what they say) deadly virus. You can't guarantee safety - you can't promise no more cases - you can only do everything possible to contain the cases you have and protect those who are not exposed.

      We have this sense of "should have done this or that" and sometimes no matter what you do - it is not enough because we are not capable of conquering everything or preventing every bad outcome.

      Assigning blame accomplishes no more than panic does. There will probably be additional US cases - no way to guarantee there won't be.

      On the positive side - we have not seen cases related to exposure to Duncan. People living with him and caring for him without protection - no new cases. People who were exposed to the kids in the house, neighbors, people in stores where he may have shopped, etc. That could have been very bad and hasn't been a problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        On the positive side - we have not seen cases related to exposure to Duncan. People living with him and caring for him without protection - no new cases. People who were exposed to the kids in the house, neighbors, people in stores where he may have shopped, etc. That could have been very bad and hasn't been a problem.
        I consider this health care worker, allegedly protected by protective gear, to be a case related to exposure to Duncan and to be very worrying if it turns out they have ebola. This would be contracted when they were allegedly following procedures to prevent them or anyone from getting it. How many patients and others now have to worry because they were in contact with that health worker? Until the 21 days of incubation are up, there's no telling how many in Texas will come down with it.

        A preliminary test was positive for Ebola on Saturday evening, and although this has yet to be confirmed by a second test, officials said they were “confident” it would be.

        Dr David Varga, the Chief Clinical Officer, said: “This individual was following full CDC guidelines. We’re very concerned.”

        A nurse in Spain who treated a dying priest and went on to develop Ebola has admitted that she may have touched her face while removing her protective suit. The latest victim will now be interviewed to see if she made a similar slip.

        Dr Tom Freiden, head of the CDC, said the fact that the Dallas nurse had become infected suggested that the safety procedures had been breached.

        An investigation to be launched by the agency will examine whether staff were removing their protective clothing in the correct manner.

        Dr Freiden told CBS that the infected worker had been in contact with Duncan on a number of occasions, and that all those who treated the Liberian wee now considered to be potentially exposed.

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...tive-suit.html
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          True - and it have to be really frightening for those military being SENT to Africa to help deal with this disease.

          The original number of 3000 has now been changed to 4000 - that's a lot of exposure even if they won't be working directly with ebola patients.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            True - and it have to be really frightening for those military being SENT to Africa to help deal with this disease.

            The original number of 3000 has now been changed to 4000 - that's a lot of exposure even if they won't be working directly with ebola patients.
            It isn't a lot of exposure. They're going to be building hospitals, not caring for ebola patients. The world can stand by and watch or they can stop this disease at the source. Up to them, but if they don't help stop it at its source, it will be coming to their country and there will be more and more cases in our own country. Not all Liberians get on a plane and come directly from Liberia. There are layovers at other countries and unless you stop international flights, it will be a lot more common here. It is in everyone's best interest to help stop this at the source.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              I'm not against sending people to help. I think it's wrong for talking heads to promise there's no risk - because there is.

              They need to be there to stop this disease - but they won't LIVE in protective clothing 24/7. We can't guarantee safety of a soldier in Afghanistan...or in West Africa.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                I'm not against sending people to help. I think it's wrong for talking heads to promise there's no risk - because there is.

                They need to be there to stop this disease - but they won't LIVE in protective clothing 24/7. We can't guarantee safety of a soldier in Afghanistan...or in West Africa.
                Why would they be in protective gear to build hospitals? They aren't going there to mingle with the natives. It isn't airborne. I'm sure they'll be in protective gear if the situation warrants it.

                Of course we can't guarantee anyone safety anywhere, but one thing is certain ... ebola will be a common disease outside of Africa if it isn't stopped, and that includes in the US.

                Five myths about Ebola
                1. Ebola won’t spread in rich countries.
                http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...b8a_story.html
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I deeply appreciate the people who volunteer to serve in our military.

    A lot of the spread in Liberia has to do with burial practices and sanitation -
    changing fast I hope:

    In Liberia, Burial Practices Hinder Battle Against Ebola - WSJ

    Also found this interesting:

    http://www.notimpossiblenow.com/the-...tImpossibleNow

    http://healthmap.org/en/
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I am surprised they don't decon the suits before anyone gets out of them. Spray those things down with bleach. Bleach kills the bug. Seems to be kinda counter-productive to have them getting out of suits that may have contamination all over the outside - too risky.....um as we have seen.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I am surprised they don't decon the suits before anyone gets out of them. Spray those things down with bleach. Bleach kills the bug. Seems to be kinda counter-productive to have them getting out of suits that may have contamination all over the outside - too risky.....um as we have seen.
      Yeah ... it seems taking off the suit is as risky as not wearing one. First the nurse in Spain and now the nurse in Texas.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Yeah ... it seems taking off the suit is as risky as not wearing one. First the nurse in Spain and now the nurse in Texas.
        When they had that outbreak with the monkeys down south (can't remember for the life of me what state that was), I remember reading they were really careful about deconning the suits before they took them off and I was under the impression that they still did that. Really - this is just sounding so much of a comedy of errors it almost makes me inclined to believe some of the conspiracy bunk. I wonder how many more deadly errors we're going to see.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          When they had that outbreak with the monkeys down south (can't remember for the life of me what state that was), I remember reading they were really careful about deconning the suits before they took them off and I was under the impression that they still did that. Really - this is just sounding so much of a comedy of errors it almost makes me inclined to believe some of the conspiracy bunk. I wonder how many more deadly errors we're going to see.
          Are you talking about the Reston, VA monkey house scare? I lived in Reston for 17 years. That was a real fiasco and fortunately, the Reston Ebola is not harmful to humans - only monkeys.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Are you talking about the Reston, VA monkey house scare? I lived in Reston for 17 years. That was a real fiasco and fortunately, the Reston Ebola is not harmful to humans - only monkeys.
            I didn't know what strain it was. I do know that they had monkeys in two rooms and the ones in the second room got sick with only an airduct between rooms. I also know they deconned those suits. Whatever else of a fiasco it was - I think that they had that one right. Decon the suits on location and nobody has to worry about the "handling". Anything that can be deconned right on the spot - should be, and it should be continuous.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              I didn't know what strain it was. I do know that they had monkeys in two rooms and the ones in the second room got sick with only an airduct between rooms. I also know they deconned those suits. Whatever else of a fiasco it was - I think that they had that one right. Decon the suits on location and nobody has to worry about the "handling". Anything that can be deconned right on the spot - should be, and it should be continuous.
              Yeah, that was the strain they call Reston Ebola, only harmful to monkeys, although they did not know that at the time. They thought it was Zaire Ebola. The Reston residents were not appreciative when they found out about their little ebola lab in the heart of Reston.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Yeah ... it seems taking off the suit is as risky as not wearing one..
        I tried to respond earlier, and windows threw the message away! But any TODDLER knows the answer to that one!

        1. Can liquid transmit ebola? YES!!!!!!!! EVERY doctor I have heard ADMITS THAT!
        2. When you take of rain gear, after coming in from the rain, do you get wet? ******DUH****** OF COURSE!!!!!!!!

        ERGO, taking off a hazmat suit *******WILL******* contaminate you! They are NOT made to keep you from being contaminated. That is impossible! They are to MITIGATE contamination(like rain wear), and SEPARATE the contamination from you so you can DECONTAMINATE THE SUIT, like they do for clean rooms and all those scifi films you see!

        SO, ideally, they should spray the bleach and all on the SUITS BEFORE you take them off! THEN, you take them off CAREFULLY, and maybe clean up any liquid that spills on your skin, etc.... It THEN might be a good idea to take a shower.

        HEY, you would do the SAME if you worked in a SEWER!!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    yes - decon the suits. I wonder if there is some newer material that is more disposable, burnable.
    From the pictures, what they use now looks heavy and cumbersome.

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I've seen the workers in news clips stepping in troughs of chemicals to to kill germs on their boots and seen them standing while someone is spraying the outside of their suits. These aren't stupid people.

      There are different levels of tyvek suits - some have full air filtration and are cumbersome - some are full coverup and make it easier to move around.

      The suits all look hot and uncomfortable to me. Can't imagine how they'd feel in hot climates.

      Edit: I was just listening to the CDC guy on TV. He was talking about the difficult of removing the suits safely - and I wondered about the little robot that decontaminates surfaced in hospital rooms.

      Whey couldn't there be a portal with the same UV or whatever light is used to decontaminate people as they leave the room of an ebola patient? It would be like a portable airlock that could be set up and sealed to the doorway of the patient's room. I guess that's too simple to work...but I wondered about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    The UV light does not kill viruses - just mold and bacteria - er bacteria anyway, not sure about mold.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      The UV light does not kill viruses - just mold and bacteria - er bacteria anyway, not sure about mold.
      Yeah - it seriously does. That's the first thing I do when exposed to a virus is head into UV rays. Of course - that's topical only other than it ups your Vit D levels and creates a sulfur based chemical that viruses can't handle.

      They are using UV at different frequencies, too - not just opening windows and letting sunlight shine through. Different sonar/light frequencies will kill anything not adapted to those frequencies. Look at the laser. All that is, is a light frequency.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    UV Disinfection Light safely kills 99.99% of germs, viruses, bacteria and eggs of lice, fleas, and dust mites

    Ultraviolet germicidal irradiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    yep - I was wrong (Again.)
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post


      Don't worry about it - it's not like this stuff is widely publicized and unless you do a LOT of research (which I do), you're not expected to know this stuff. I bet you know a lot of stuff that the rest of us would argue against until you showed us differently.

      That's why I hit up experts for info so often, LOL. ThomM is my absolute agriculture and pot reference for example. I never had any ed about horticulture and he's made educating himself in that field a life long effort. Where do I go when I have techno questions?? The OT forum. . That's what I LOVE about this forum. There's people here that can answer questions about all sorts of fields that I have no clues about. We're a pretty lucky bunch to have each other here - good education, good support, and lots of laughs
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Ebola outbreak: Liberia health workers threaten to strike Monday

    Thousands of Liberian health-care workers are set to begin an indefinite strike at midnight on Monday which could undermine the country's effort to stop the spread of the deadly Ebola virus and leave several hundred patients without care.

    Health workers in the West African nation threatened to abandon hundreds of patients in Ebola treatment units, clinics and hospitals if demands for better incentives, working conditions and protective equipment were not met.
    I can't say that I blame them - they need protective gear at the very least.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      In a "TIME" article - this was interesting:

      "There needs to be a proper coordination of what is being donated by the international community," George Williams, the Liberia Health Workers Association secretary-general told Bloomberg. "We're hearing about millions of dollars of taxpayers' money being donated and we appreciate every cent. But we need to see it at the health facilities."
      How many times have we seen massive human suffering and natural disasters where money was thrown at the country....and just disappeared???

      We shouldn't be sending ANY money to Liberia - we are sending troops - we should be sending protective health care suits, etc. Cash will disappear into pockets time after time.

      At the same time - it seems to be taking us a long time to get troops to Liberia...we've committed either 3000 or 4000 (depending on what media you read)...but...

      The number of deaths attributed to the current Ebola outbreak has climbed to 4,033, the World Health Organization reported Friday. The tally brings the total number of confirmed, probable and suspected cases of Ebola to 8,399. The numbers were reported from Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Spain and the United States.


      U.S. troops arrive in Liberia:
      A group of 90 U.S. Marines and airmen arrived in Liberia on Thursday to help Ebola response efforts, along with four V-22 Osprey aircraft and two C-130 transport planes.


      Their arrival brings the total number of U.S. troops deployed in Liberia to 334, military spokesman Lt. Col. Dave Doherty said. There are more coming. In late October, 700 troops from the 101st Airborne Division are scheduled to deploy to Liberia.
      It's been six months since this ebola outbreak began...the number of cases and deaths in West Africa is still increasing. The aid was announced a month ago - why is the reaction time so slow? Why would it take us 4-6 months to react to an "international health crisis?"
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        It's been six months since this ebola outbreak began...the number of cases and deaths in West Africa is still increasing. The aid was announced a month ago - why is the reaction time so slow? Why would it take us 4-6 months to react to an "international health crisis?"
        The WHO declared it International Health Emergency on AUG. 8, 2014. At that time it was 1,000 fatalities.

        Facing the worst known outbreak of the Ebola virus, with almost 1,000 fatalities in West Africa, the World Health Organization declared an international public health emergency on Friday, demanding an extraordinary response -- only the third such declaration of its kind since regulations permitting such alarms were adopted in 2007.
        Another article
        http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/wo...-aid.html?_r=0
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

      Ebola outbreak: Liberia health workers threaten to strike Monday

      I can't say that I blame them - they need protective gear at the very least.
      What a tragedy if that happens. Of course they need protective gear. I read this regarding supplies sent to Sierra Leone

      http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/wo...yed-docks.html
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      • Profile picture of the author waterotter
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        What a tragedy if that happens. Of course they need protective gear. I read this regarding supplies sent to Sierra Leone

        http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/wo...yed-docks.html
        A tragedy, indeed. I read elsewhere that nurses and healthcare aides were demanding $700/month in hazard pay. They only make 2-300 dollars a month. I can understand the hazard pay - I couldn't imagine working there in those conditions. I guess we'll know at midnight.

        Those supplies just sitting there - who is running this ship??? There's no excuse for this.

        Canada may have it's first ebola case:

        A person who recently returned to Canada from a country in West Africa is in isolation at an Ottawa hospital with Ebola-like symptoms.

        The patient arrived at The Ottawa Hospital's General campus on Sunday and was immediately placed in isolation, Ottawa Public Health confirmed to CBC News on Monday.

        The patient had recently visited a West African country where Ebola has been reported.
        Source: Ebola-like symptoms seen in person isolated in Ottawa hospital

        ETA: Canada may have 2 cases. Ebola-like symptoms seen in 2 people isolated in Ottawa, Belleville

        Belleville is only 2 hours away from me. Ottawa, 4 hours.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

          Those supplies just sitting there - who is running this ship??? There's no excuse for this.
          Their own governments are in charge of clearing and distributing the shipments. Apparently, they're not only incompetent at epidemic control in their countries, but also incompetent to just push paperwork through and get this stuff cleared and delivered. It's politics as usual, only not ours.

          "We are still just hoping (!!!) -- which sounds like BEGGING -- that this container should be cleared," one government official wrote in a frantic email to his superiors, weeks after the container arrived.

          In many ways, the delay reflects what some in the growing ranks of international officials pouring into this nation to fight Ebola describe as a chaotic, disorganized government response to the epidemic.
          "It's a mess," said one foreign official working alongside the Sierra Leone government agency set up to deal with the crisis. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to maintain vital relations with the government, said that nobody appeared to be in charge at the agency, known as the "emergency operations center," and that different factions made decisions independently.

          "It's the only body responsible," the official said. "What is it doing?"

          In the case of the shipping container, the desperately needed supplies seem to have been caught, at least in part, in a trap that is common the world over: politics, money and power.

          The supplies were donated by individuals and institutions in the United States, according to Chernoh Alpha Bah, who organized the shipment. But Mr. Bah wears another hat, as well. He is an opposition politician from President Ernest Bai Koroma's hometown, Makeni -- a place that clearly showed the government's inability to contain Ebola.

          A recent surge of cases there quickly overwhelmed health workers, with protective gear so lacking that some nurses have worked around the deadly virus in their street clothes.

          More than 80 health care workers in Sierra Leone have died in the outbreak, and even in the capital, Freetown, some burial crews wear protective gowns with gaping holes in them, a clear indication of the urgent need for more supplies.

          The government official who pleaded for the shipment to come in said that the political tensions may have contributed to the delay, to prevent the opposition from trumpeting the donations.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

          A tragedy, indeed. I read elsewhere that nurses and healthcare aides were demanding $700/month in hazard pay. They only make 2-300 dollars a month. I can understand the hazard pay - I couldn't imagine working there in those conditions. I guess we'll know at midnight.

          Those supplies just sitting there - who is running this ship??? There's no excuse for this.

          Canada may have it's first ebola case:



          Source: Ebola-like symptoms seen in person isolated in Ottawa hospital

          ETA: Canada may have 2 cases. Ebola-like symptoms seen in 2 people isolated in Ottawa, Belleville

          Belleville is only 2 hours away from me. Ottawa, 4 hours.
          Isn't it GREAT that they allow all these people into the country? CALIFORNIA is MORE careful about people coming here from mexico with FRUIT! OH, except for all the illegal aliens.

          Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/wo...yed-docks.html
        If they refuse to release supplies, they increase the spread of the disease. Seems to me that would warrant a ban on travel, no?

        Corrupt distribution? "Sorry. Your government can't even get medical supplies to sick people. We'll find more competent countries to do business with. I hear Nigeria handled this well."


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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          If they refuse to release supplies, they increase the spread of the disease. Seems to me that would warrant a ban on travel, no?

          Corrupt distribution? "Sorry. Your government can't even get medical supplies to sick people. We'll find more competent countries to do business with. I hear Nigeria handled this well."


          Paul
          I was pleasantly shocked by the way Nigeria took control and stopped it dead in its tracks. Yay Nigeria. But I agree ... there's over $140K worth of protective gear sitting there for over 2 months now. Not only is that criminal in what it does to their own population, but these governments have been begging everyone for help. Warrants a travel ban to me if they refuse to get stuff together and do what it takes to stop ebola.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/29/he...e-funeral.html
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I think one problem is that so little is known about Ebola before this outbreak. I believe somebody posted the previous known outbreaks earlier in this thread. What has happened in the past was usually that a person was infected by animal, and he would infect a few others and that was it. What has happened now is that the virus kept on passing between humans. As it passes through humans, it is bound to adapt so that it could be transmitted more easily. At the same time, the mortality rate should go down as the virus becomes less lethal. However, that does not seem to have happen.

    A virus that lethal can't be transmitted efficiently for ever. At one point, people will get so scared that they will stay at home as much as possible and whole cities will be at a standstill. I believe this was one factor why SARS was controlled in 2003.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      I think one problem is that so little is known about Ebola before this outbreak. I believe somebody posted the previous known outbreaks earlier in this thread. What has happened in the past was usually that a person was infected by animal, and he would infect a few others and that was it. What has happened now is that the virus kept on passing between humans. As it passes through humans, it is bound to adapt so that it could be transmitted more easily. At the same time, the mortality rate should go down as the virus becomes less lethal. However, that does not seem to have happen.

      A virus that lethal can't be transmitted efficiently for ever. At one point, people will get so scared that they will stay at home as much as possible and whole cities will be at a standstill. I believe this was one factor why SARS was controlled in 2003.
      Russia has just reported that it expects to have vaccine ready in 2 months.
      http://rt.com/news/195536-ebola-russia-vaccine-send/
      In two months, Russia is planning to send a new experimental vaccine against Ebola to Africa, according to the country's health minister. The efficiency of the drug, which is to be tested on the ground, is about 70-90 percent.
      It says they are developing 3 vaccines. The others, it says, will be ready in 6 months.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Ebola outbreak: 1st human trials of Canadian vaccine start in U.S.

    The vaccine, which was developed by scientists at the Public Health Agency of Canada's National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg, has proven safe in animals and will be tested on 20 healthy volunteers at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research in Silver Spring, Md.

    The results from the Phase 1 human trials will be completed by December, Ambrose said, although no specific date was given.

    Ebola Vaccine
    The vaccine has successfully been tested in animals, but the Maryland trials will be the first to test it in humans. (Associated Press)

    She said the vaccine has been shown to be "100 per cent effective" in preventing the spread of the Ebola virus when tested on animals.

    "If the Canadian vaccine is shown to be safe and effective [in humans], it will stop this devastating outbreak," Ambrose said.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      What I meant about timing is that CDC lists the start of this ebola epidemic as March 2014...though it wasn't listed as a crisis until late summer.

      She said the vaccine has been shown to be "100 per cent effective" in preventing the spread of the Ebola virus when tested on animals.
      Would be amazing to have a vaccine against this deadly disease. Go science!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        What I meant about timing is that CDC lists the start of this ebola epidemic as March 2014...though it wasn't listed as a crisis until late summer.

        Would be amazing to have a vaccine against this deadly disease. Go science!!!
        We wouldn't ordinarily get involved in a country's health crisis unless it was determined to be a world health crisis, which of course, it is now.

        I'm rooting for the vaccines. There are certainly enough companies and countries working on them, surely someone will get vaccine out there and put a stop to or seriously slow this thing down.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    An interesting and thought provoking comment re: this article Dallas Nurse With Ebola Identified

    Where I work, we have a level 3 laboratory. A pathogen such as Ebola would NEVER be permitted in that laboratory. It would be allowed only in a level 4. And yet these health care workers are expected to deal with Ebola patients wearing only level 3 (at best) biohazard gear. They should be wearing level 4 gear, which looks like the moon landing suits. The nurse in Spain and the nurse in Dallas did not do anything wrong. They simply were not adequately protected.
    Begs the question, are frontline workers adequately protected? Also, why is there no decon of gear before it is removed???
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

      An interesting and thought provoking comment re: this article Dallas Nurse With Ebola Identified

      Begs the question, are frontline workers adequately protected? Also, why is there no decon of gear before it is removed???
      I don't think any ebola cases should have been handled at the Texas hospital. I think they all should be transported to the hospitals like in Nebraska and where the others were treated. They have it down pat. No one else was infected and their patients so far, have all survived.

      As for the decon ... guess that's not part of the procedure when removing the gear, but obviously, I think the difference between the levels is an important point and just more of a reason not to let unequipped hospitals handle these patients.
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      • Profile picture of the author waterotter
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I don't think any ebola cases should have been handled at the Texas hospital. I think they all should be transported to the hospitals like in Nebraska and where the others were treated. They have it down pat. No one else was infected and their patients so far, have all survived.

        As for the decon ... guess that's not part of the procedure when removing the gear, but obviously, I think the difference between the levels is an important point and just more of a reason not to let unequipped hospitals handle these patients.
        I have to ask this. Were the other patients as far advanced with the ebola virus as was the index patient? I'm not saying Texas handled the case properly, just wondering if those other patients were diagnosed and treated early on?
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

          I have to ask this. Were the other patients as far advanced with the ebola virus as was the index patient? I'm not saying Texas handled the case properly, just wondering if those other patients were diagnosed and treated early on?
          Well, with travel time, the ones they evacuated and brought back here may have been close to his stage of illness. They didn't get here for several days after they knew they were sick, and of course he was sick in the apartment for a day or two and then turned away for two days.

          In a country that had no cases of ebola previously, I just feel it should be handled at the top university hospitals with the best isolation wards and best doctors and nurses. I don't think this is a disease to put in just any old hospital. There's too much at stake.

          Texas made a lot of mistakes. Not surprising since this was the first, but in every aspect ... decon of the apartment, the outside grounds of the apartment, quarantine of the family ... there were mistakes that could put neighborhoods at risk. Now that this nurse got it, all of the caretakers of Duncan are at risk. This is just too important to get wrong.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            What concerned me today is the news that "about 70 people" took parts in the care of Duncan. Didn't make sense to me. The number of people treating such a patient should be as small as possible to avoid spreading the disease. I know there are various specialists involved but surely some could observe/treat from a safe distance while only a few were directly exposed to the patient.

            There are four "containment centers" in the US - maybe it would be best for the patients to take them to one of those but the risk of transporting them has to be considered. How many more medical and other staff would be exposed by doing that?


            A few days ago Jesse Jackson made claims that Duncan got inferior treatment because he was black. Has Jess been to visit the nurse - or any OTHER ebola patient's family? Who's the racist now, Jesse?
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              What concerned me today is the news that "about 70 people" took parts in the care of Duncan. Didn't make sense to me. The number of people treating such a patient should be as small as possible to avoid spreading the disease. I know there are various specialists involved but surely some could observe/treat from a safe distance while only a few were directly exposed to the patient.

              There are four "containment centers" in the US - maybe it would be best for the patients to take them to one of those but the risk of transporting them has to be considered. How many more medical and other staff would be exposed by doing that?

              A few days ago Jesse Jackson made claims that Duncan got inferior treatment because he was black. Has Jess been to visit the nurse - or any OTHER ebola patient's family? Who's the racist now, Jesse?
              I think there's far less risk in transporting them with hazmat suits on in an ambulance than there is in treating them in facilities that aren't up to par for this kind of biohazard.

              As for Jackson, I wish he would go away. Anything to get on TV and publicity. I do not discount the possibility that race and lack of insurance and just not paying attention had something to do with his care, especially when he was first turned away. I don't know the people, so it's really impossible to say if it played a part.

              But I really don't think Jackson is serving any useful purpose by making those accusations. I also resent the sense of entitlement involved in an immigrant who, in my mind, obviously knew that he was going to get it, and came here for treatment. His family was complicit in that deceit and thanks to them and him, we now have ebola here.

              It was dishonest and a completely selfish thing to do. His and the family's only thought was for him ... not for the people in our country and hospitals. I do wish he had lived, but I also think that had he lived, he should be held legally accountable for what he did, either in this country or when we shipped his ass out of here back home.
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              • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


                But I really don't think Jackson is serving any useful purpose by making those accusations. I also resent the sense of entitlement involved in an immigrant who, in my mind, obviously knew that he was going to get it, and came here for treatment. His family was complicit in that deceit and thanks to them and him, we now have ebola here.
                He was not immigrant but a casual visitor who was visiting his family. Given the situation in Liberia, I doubt that he would have been able to buy any travel insurance. His plane ticket was booked before he had contact with an Ebola infected patient. There was really no way of anybody knowing how high the risk of contracting Ebola was. He did break Liberian law by not declaring the Ebola contact when he left the country. He had not visited his son for 16 years so it would be have a tough decision for him to make. I doubt that he broke any US laws though.
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                  He was not immigrant but a casual visitor who was visiting his family. Given the situation in Liberia, I doubt that he would have been able to buy any travel insurance. His plane ticket was booked before he had contact with an Ebola infected patient. There was really no way of anybody knowing how high the risk of contracting Ebola was. He did break Liberian law by not declaring the Ebola contact when he left the country. He had not visited his son for 16 years so it would be have a tough decision for him to make. I doubt that he broke any US laws though.
                  So the guy drops his kid off for 16 years and because he wants to suddenly be a daddy we're supposed to find empathy in his decision to risk hundreds, and possibly thousands, of lives? They've found this whole outbreak stems back to one plane passenger.

                  I'm sorry - I can't empathize with someone who knew he was exposed and lets his own wants risk spreading a 50 - 90% deadly virus around the globe.

                  Seems this guy has a history of making foolish and regrettable decisions.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Second health care worker stricken in TX. Not, good.

                    Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    So the guy drops his kid off for 16 years and because he wants to suddenly be a daddy we're supposed to find empathy in his decision to risk hundreds, and possibly thousands, of lives? They've found this whole outbreak stems back to one plane passenger.

                    I'm sorry - I can't empathize with someone who knew he was exposed and lets his own wants risk spreading a 50 - 90% deadly virus around the globe.

                    Seems this guy has a history of making foolish and regrettable decisions.
                    Don't worry. There's a place in hell reserved for him if he's not there already.
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Don't worry. There's a place in hell reserved for him if he's not there already.
                      A place in hell, should such a place exist, doesn't alleviate the problem we now in Texas.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        A place in hell, should such a place exist, doesn't alleviate the problem we now in Texas.
                        Am I right in thinking there is a second case now in Texas? A second worker who has it? (edit. Just seen your quoited bit Suzanne)

                        Not wanting to worry people and I'm aware it's the most dangerous time to catch anything when you take the suits off but does anyone know if they came into skin to skin or similar contact with the victim?

                        I'm worrying for if this goes airborne.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                          Am I right in thinking there is a second case now in Texas? A second worker who has it?

                          Not wanting to worry people and I'm aware it's the most dangerous time to catch anything when you take the suits off but does anyone know if they came into skin to skin or similar contact with the victim?
                          click here
                          http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9596982
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                          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            Amazing isn't it.

                            How can a country like the US not have proper protocols in place?

                            Incredibly the loons that run this island said we didn't even need to do airport screening, they now have it but it's a total shambles. Some airports don't even know if it's compulsory and apparently it's voluntary which in this case you're discussing he'd have just walked straight through over here.

                            Wow.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                              a casual visitor who was visiting his family
                              The news in Liberia reported Duncan lived there in a "tin shack" neighborhood that is one of the hardest hit when it comes to ebola. People there won't help orphaned children of neighbors for fear of the disease.

                              He knew he was exposed. He had been invited to attend his son's graduation last spring (his fiance says) but didn't get here until Fall. I think there's a lot of story abut this trip that hasn't come out yet. The family is talking about a lawsuit so maybe we'll get the truth.

                              In Africa, the death rate is 70%. Duncan is the only death in the US so far so claims that "he should have been saved" are a bit much.

                              The most concerning thing to me is that people who treated him are getting ebola. Their protections may not have been perfect but they had some level of protective clothing. It doesn't make any sense to me that NO ONE who lived with him in that apartment for a week has shown symptoms.

                              How could that be? One doctor on TV said the same happens in Africa - where 4 people may be equally exposed and 2 people get ebola and 2 don't. I wonder what gene or chemical people have that protects them?
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                  He was not immigrant but a casual visitor who was visiting his family. Given the situation in Liberia, I doubt that he would have been able to buy any travel insurance. His plane ticket was booked before he had contact with an Ebola infected patient. There was really no way of anybody knowing how high the risk of contracting Ebola was. He did break Liberian law by not declaring the Ebola contact when he left the country. He had not visited his son for 16 years so it would be have a tough decision for him to make. I doubt that he broke any US laws though.
                  The "girlfriend" that he hadn't seen for over 16 years (and who had been in a relationship with someone else until recently) said that he came here to marry her, so that's a bit more than a casual visitor. He flat out lied about contact to get on a plane. I'm not buying that he just had an irresistible urge to visit a son he barely knew or a woman that he had no contact with for over 16 years. I also don't buy, just because he says so, that he had no contact with an ebola victim before he bought his ticket. I think people around him were dropping like flies.

                  If he and his family were so close, why is it that none of them are as yet, infected? Apparently, they weren't quite that close.

                  So BREAKING NEWS: Now we have a second health care worker in Texas with Ebola.

                  Co-workers of a Dallas nurse who contracted Ebola from a sick patient say they worked for days without proper protective gear and that the hospital's Ebola protocols and procedures were unclear and inadequate, leaving workers and hospital systems prone to contamination, according to a statement by the largest U.S. nurses' union.

                  The statement, which was provided by National Nurses United on behalf of several registered nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, details hospital procedures after Thomas Eric Duncan arrived at the hospital. The nurses are not represented by the union, and the group declined to reveal the nurses' identities.

                  Duncan was diagnosed with Ebola Sept. 30 and died Oct. 8. Nina Pham, one of about 70 staff members who cared for Duncan, was diagnosed Sunday with the virus. Pham's colleagues say the hospital was ill-equipped to handle the situation.

                  "No one knew what the protocols were or were able to verify what kind of personal protective equipment should be worn and there was no training," the statement reads.

                  Duncan was left in a nonquarantined zone for several hours, and a nurse supervisor faced resistance from hospital authorities after demanding that Duncan be moved to an isolation unit, according to the union's statement. Additionally, Duncan's lab specimens were sent through the hospital's tube system, potentially contaminating the system, the nurses said.

                  Nurses who interacted with Duncan were given the option of wearing special N95 masks, but some supervisors said the masks were not necessary, the nurses said, according to the statement.

                  "For their necks, nurses had to use medical tape, that is not impermeable and has permeable seams, to wrap around their necks in order to protect themselves, and had to put on the tape and take it off on their own," the statement reads.

                  "Nurses had to interact with Mr. Duncan with whatever protective equipment was available, at a time when he had copious amounts of diarrhea and vomiting which produces a lot of contagious fluids."

                  A hospital spokesman did not respond to specific claims by the nurses but said the hospital has not received similar complaints.
                  I think we'll be seeing more ebola in Texas.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    @waterotter

    Ebola ruled out in the Ottawa case.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    This political game with the "we can't shut down travel" BS is making me furious. Oh the economy will be effected? Who's? The drug companies? These politicians don't think that having half a population in die off won't effect their economy? People being so scared crapless to use that transportation method they refuse to go there aren't going to hurt that economy?

    We need to have scientists take over. Politicians have got to be the most brick headed humans on the planet.

    This is just like the issue of the poisons we're spraying on our ecosystems. Economy means crap when you destroy the reason for the economy. Sprays mean crap when they completely annihilate the ecosystems to the point they've started chain reaction extinctions.

    I think maybe scientists are very correct that we're splitting into two species - and I believe we need to stop putting the sub-species in our offices.

    This whole fiasco has gone from a little concerning to completely bizarre.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      The WHO reported new stats today - and it's frightening:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/wo...rica.html?_r=0

      Jindal of Louisiana proposed a flight band this is one "reply" to his request...

      http://www.economist.com/news/intern...idges-or-walls
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        The WHO reported new stats today - and it's frightening:

        http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/wo...rica.html?_r=0

        Jindal of Louisiana proposed a flight band this is one "reply" to his request...

        The spread of Ebola: Bridges or walls | The Economist
        First article is frightening. The second is what I was already thinking ... that simply banning flights from West Africa will not stop ebola infected people from flying in from other places. Their flights are never directly from West Africa. Duncan flew in from Brussels.

        I think serious airport screening is the best we can do really. I read that Heathrow Airport was supposed to be screening and the passengers are calling it a joke.

        Britain's Ebola screening plans descended into chaos on its first day today after people flying to the UK from high risk countries revealed the checks are not compulsory.

        Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt said airline passengers from West Africa must be checked for symptoms 'to make our country safe' and warned the epidemic could be as deadly as Aids.

        He also warned Britain should expect up to ten cases by Christmas as screening of passengers from Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea, where 4,000 have died from Ebola, started at Heathrow.

        But travellers at Terminal One this morning said the system is a 'complete joke' because they were either not checked at all, told it was optional or had to seek out medical staff themselves.
        Now what's wrong with this picture? This is Heathrow. They aren't using that kind of thermometer elsewhere for ebola screening. They are using thermometers that don't need to touch the skin and the workers don't need to touch the person.

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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Brussels is a hub - if you are going to several countries near or on the Africa continent, you are going to change planes in Brussels.

          I don't see a problem with banning travel to the US by citizens of those South AFrica countries that have ebola. If not banning travel, we should impose mandatory quarantines for those people coming to the US.

          We blame the TX hospital for not admitting on his first visit...but if we had mandatory quarantine in place he would have gotten treatment faster and others would not have been exposed.

          We make mistakes and that's ok - as long as we learn from them and improve as we go.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Nigeria (note op ed piece):

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/op...-of-ebola.html
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Brave woman, many interesting points - especially about getting blood transfusion from Ebola survivor:

    Dallas Nurse Battling Ebola Says She's 'Doing Well' - ABC News

    Only four US Hospitals designated for handling Ebola - Dallas is not one:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-e...ry?id=26140892
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Oh holy crap. The WHO just put out a report. 3% of people have ebola incubation periods of 42 days. That's twice the length of time we're actively watching or quarantining. It's also only 98% of cases - 95% are 21 days - 3% are 42 days. Um........
    what's going on with the other 2%?

    WHO | Are the Ebola outbreaks in Nigeria and Senegal over?
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I can see that if a few more cases occur in Dallas, especially if it involves the general public, the city will go into a "lock down" mode. That is people will be scared to go out except to get essential supplies. But this is probably the most effective way of stopping a potential outbreak.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      I can see that if a few more cases occur in Dallas, especially if it involves the general public, the city will go into a "lock down" mode. That is people will be scared to go out except to get essential supplies. But this is probably the most effective way of stopping a potential outbreak.
      I tell you one place in Texas I wouldn't go near and that is that hospital. They breached so many protocols that I wouldn't want to be treated there for anything. I know Duncan used a dialysis machine. Can any of the equipment used on him or any of the equipment used by health care workers who tended to him be considered safe, with such lax protocols in place there?

      The CDC said that they are now going to send out a response team for each new case. I hope that begins in Texas ... now ... with this new case.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      I can see that if a few more cases occur in Dallas, especially if it involves the general public, the city will go into a "lock down" mode. That is people will be scared to go out except to get essential supplies. But this is probably the most effective way of stopping a potential outbreak.
      Derek,

      The US has four hospitals with isolation wards deemed as able to handle cases like Ebola.
      I do not understand why patients are not mandatorily sent to them. And, it seems like it would
      be better for containment of Ebola if patients were sent to one of the four.

      What's your take on using just one of those four hospitals?
      The designated ones are listed here:
      Texas Ebola Breach Raises Questions on Hospitals' Readiness to Treat Virus - ABC News

      Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        Derek,

        The US has four hospitals with isolation wards deemed by our CDC as able to handle Ebola.
        I do not understand why patients are not mandatorily sent to them. And, it seems like it would
        be better for containment of Ebola if patients were sent to one of the four.

        What's your take on using just one of those four hospitals?
        The designated ones are listed here:
        Texas Ebola Breach Raises Questions on Hospitals' Readiness to Treat Virus - ABC News

        Dan
        Dan, I agree completely that these patients should be sent to a highly specialized unit in the first place.

        One problem with the health care system in the US is that it is highly de-centralized and individual states have a lot of discretion. That's why epidemiological and surveillance data from US is generally not as highly respected as those from European countries.

        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I tell you one place in Texas I wouldn't go near and that is that hospital. They breached so many protocols that I wouldn't want to be treated there for anything. I know Duncan used a dialysis machine. Can any of the equipment used on him or any of the equipment used by health care workers who tended to him be considered safe, with such lax protocols in place there?

        The CDC said that they are now going to send out a response team for each new case. I hope that begins in Texas ... now ... with this new case.
        I think what these cases in the US and Spain have shown is that advanced countries are not much more capable of handling Ebola than African countries. If I were living near that hospital, I would definitely be very concerned.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

          Dan, I agree completely that these patients should be sent to a highly specialized unit in the first place.

          One problem with the health care system in the US is that it is highly de-centralized and individual states have a lot of discretion. That's why epidemiological and surveillance data from US is generally not as highly respected as those from European countries.
          Apparently, at one point the CDC said any hospital with an isolation ward should be able
          to handle Ebola. That did not help.

          As this goes on in the US, it seems to me that there should be some emergency powers act
          making it so one agency is in charge and mandates treatment instead of just providing guidelines.

          Transport to a designated hospital could be problematic for containment and strict procedures
          would have to be in place and followed.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

          I think what these cases in the US and Spain have shown is that advanced countries are not much more capable of handling Ebola than African countries. If I were living near that hospital, I would definitely be very concerned.
          This.

          I watched a Vice documentary on this yesterday and they were in Liberia. The situation there is dire but I had to admire the resilience and courage of the people there, not just from Liberia, trying to help. What did get me was one chap who said first world countries would have no deaths as we can replace fluids and electrolytes. All I could think of is it may look better on the surface but I really don't think we'd cope well here either.

          Frankly I don't think anywhere is well equipped. Even if we could say to people to stay home for a few weeks there would be panic buying, looting and heaven knows what else. Containing these people and isolating them seems to be the only answer.

          zMapp or whatever it's called may work well but it's too expensive and as usual with most medicine it's money that gets in the way.

          It's not looking awfully good is it?
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          • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
            Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

            Apparently, at one point the CDC said any hospital with an isolation ward should be able
            to handle Ebola. That did not help.
            No, that will not do. You want "high security isolation units" - these are usually part of an infectious diseases hospital. Total environmental control is usually achieved by the use of negative pressure plastic isolators. Most laboratory tests should be carried out on site as are the equipment used to care for the patient. There are very few laboratories in the world that can safely Ebola specimens. They are what we call Biological Containment Level 4 laboratories. There are probably only a few in the US and it is possible that there is none in Texas.

            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            This.

            I watched a Vice documentary on this yesterday and they were in Liberia. The situation there is dire but I had to admire the resilience and courage of the people there, not just from Liberia, trying to help. What did get me was one chap who said first world countries would have no deaths as we can replace fluids and electrolytes. All I could think of is it may look better on the surface but I really don't think we'd cope well here either.

            Frankly I don't think anywhere is well equipped. Even if we could say to people to stay home for a few weeks there would be panic buying, looting and heaven knows what else. Containing these people and isolating them seems to be the only answer.

            zMapp or whatever it's called may work well but it's too expensive and as usual with most medicine it's money that gets in the way.

            It's not looking awfully good is it?
            I know there is an infectious disease unit in Birmingham that can deal with these patients. I have worked in that hospital before and been in a category 4 virus laboratory. That laboratory was never used since it was built in the 70's. I suppose it could be used quite soon.

            I suspect that sooner or later, the spread of the virus will be controlled in large cities because of total fear. That is fear leading people to stay indoors even to the point to not going to work.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

              I suspect that sooner or later, the spread of the virus will be controlled in large cities because of fear. That is fear leading people to stay indoors even to the point to not going to work.
              Yes, I think you're right. Fear will keep people at home, away from physical contact with others and so long as it remains bodily fluid transmitted it should die out. I hope.

              In fact I saw this a few days ago about a tyre factory in Liberia and it's containment and isolation that has kept this one small part of Liberia Ebola free.

              In Liberia, Firestone's toughest job: saving employees from Ebola - Fortune

              It's an interesting read.
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

              No, that will not do. You want "high security isolation units" - these are usually part of an infectious diseases hospital. Total environmental control is usually achieved by the use of negative pressure plastic isolators. Most laboratory tests should be carried out on site as are the equipment used to care for the patient. There are very few laboratories in the world that can safely Ebola specimens. They are what we call Biological Containment Level 4 laboratories. There are probably only a few in the US and it is possible that there is none in Texas.



              I know there is an infectious disease unit in Birmingham that can deal with these patients. I have worked in that hospital before and been in a category 4 virus laboratory. That laboratory was never used since it was built in the 70's. I suppose it could be used quite soon.

              I suspect that sooner or later, the spread of the virus will be controlled in large cities because of total fear. That is fear leading people to stay indoors even to the point to not going to work.
              These are the four US hospitals that should handle Ebola. Not a one in Texas:

              All the U.S. citizens who contracted Ebola in Liberia and were brought to the United States were transported to the Nebraska Biocontainment Patient Care Unit, in Omaha, and to the specialized unit at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta.

              Two more centers that are specialized to treat diseases like Ebola are at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Md., and St. Patrick Hospital in Missoula, Mont.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            This.

            I watched a Vice documentary on this yesterday and they were in Liberia. The situation there is dire but I had to admire the resilience and courage of the people there, not just from Liberia, trying to help. What did get me was one chap who said first world countries would have no deaths as we can replace fluids and electrolytes. All I could think of is it may look better on the surface but I really don't think we'd cope well here either.

            Frankly I don't think anywhere is well equipped. Even if we could say to people to stay home for a few weeks there would be panic buying, looting and heaven knows what else. Containing these people and isolating them seems to be the only answer.

            zMapp or whatever it's called may work well but it's too expensive and as usual with most medicine it's money that gets in the way.

            It's not looking awfully good is it?
            Replace fluids and electrolytes. Huh? This now sounds like the human version of the dog virus, Parvo, which is about as deadly (or was) for dogs as this is for humans. I rescued a dog with Parvo once - took 72 hours to save him once his symptoms hit. I was tired, lol. Shot 12 cc's of water or pediolite (sp) down his throat every 20 minutes for 3 days (and nights) - just enough to absorb without him throwing it up, and the pediolite was for the electrolytes. After 24 hours hours I started the same amount of gerbers baby food every 3 hours, too. On the fourth day he started drinking a little on his own. 5th day - he was in recovery getting well.

            Wow - this little bit of info is probably the most encouraging thing I've heard up to this point.

            BTW - Derek - I am grateful to have you here to talk to us now. I really appreciate the time you are taking to share your expertise with us. Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Second Nurse Infected with Ebola Was on Jetliner Before Diagnosis

    A second Texas nurse who has tested positive for Ebola was on a commercial jetliner from Cleveland to Dallas the night before she arrived at the hospital with a fever and was later diagnosed with the deadly virus, officials said today.
    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is reaching out to the 132 passengers who flew with the woman on Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 on Monday evening, landing in Dallas at 8:16 p.m. Although according to crew members the health care worker had no symptoms during the flight, the CDC is identifying and notifying passengers because she arrived at the hospital with a fever the following morning.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

      This is just getting tragic. CDC needs to drop by Texas and take over ebola operations there. What's the next step? Disallow all traffic to and from Texas?
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      • Profile picture of the author waterotter
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        This is just getting tragic. CDC needs to drop by Texas and take over ebola operations there. What's the next step? Disallow all traffic to and from Texas?
        I agree ^^^^^.

        I'm curious to know who was monitoring her.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    These are the four US hospitals that should handle Ebola.
    A news report stated these hospitals don't want to be filled to capacity - one hospital is prepared to take about three ebola patients, even though they have more beds.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Changing the protocol

    The CDC is establishing an Ebola response team so that whenever there's a confirmed case anywhere in the country, "we will put a team on the ground within hours," said Dr. Tom Frieden, director of the centers.

    Such a team, Frieden said, might have prevented Pham from contracting the disease.
    2nd Texas health worker with Ebola will be moved to Atlanta
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Mark Zuckerberg And Wife Priscilla Chan Donate $25 Million To Fight Ebola
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I have zero confidence that anyone giving them money isn't just pissing it away. It's going to go to the government and not where's it's needed. The US sent $140K worth of protective gear and it is still sitting undistributed and unused. I would not send a dime to them unless it was through an well known organization that would actually see that it went where it was needed.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Gates Foundation to spend $50M on Ebola response
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  • Profile picture of the author Shkoczhek
    they should close the borders and not accept any flight from africa imo!
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Wow, this is very disturbing: Some Ebola-Stricken African Families Pay Bribes for Fake Death Records
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I see Yahoo news is running those false ads about Prop 92 that the GMO industry is paying 8 figures to run to fool us into not labeling GMO food. Is the whole world of money out to kill us now? Don't stop those flights - it will interrupt our prosperity. Don't label those GMO's it will interfere with our prosperity.

    This whole planet has gone from sick to extremely twisted.
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  • Profile picture of the author hopeful33
    Ebola is like all other epidemics manufactured in laboratories of the freemasonry international health organizations who spread disease in poor countries in order to control and kill the largest possible number of people and make treatment experience on them .. in other words Africa and Asia are laboratory mice of these organisations . once they got disease in Europe and America the magical treatment appears who is often existing before dissemination of epidemic The principle of creating the problem and finding solution And we can see the same thing in politic through armed organizations and fabrication of terrorism for purely economic goals when the human becomes the cheaper thing
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by hopeful33 View Post

      Ebola is like all other epidemics manufactured in laboratories of the freemasonry international health organizations who spread disease in poor countries in order to control and kill the largest possible number of people and make treatment experience on them .. in other words Africa and Asia are laboratory mice of these organisations . once they got disease in Europe and America the magical treatment appears who is often existing before dissemination of epidemic The principle of creating the problem and finding solution And we can see the same thing in politic through armed organizations and fabrication of terrorism for purely economic goals when the human becomes the cheaper thing
      Well, I've read my share of conspiracy theories, but this one has got to close to the top of the list. hahaha ... lollollol .... Thanks for the comedy break.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Well, I've read my share of conspiracy theories, but this one has got to close to the top of the list. hahaha ... lollollol .... Thanks for the comedy break.
        It's not as far-fetched as you think. I'm not saying it's correct - just that there are a lot of correlations, whether they mean anything or not.

        Monsanto is financially allied with a pharmaceutical company working on a vaccine for Ebola. We know how much Monsanto cares if people live and die as long as they haul in the big bucks - and keep control. It, at this time would actually be beneficial to this Cannibalistic Corporation if we do have a global outbreak. Almost everything Monsanto is involved in starts out as "conspiracy theory" and ends up as "conspiracy fact". So actually, whether or not the theory ever rings with truth (which in this case I'm hoping not or we're in for major problems ahead) - the CT does have some pretty solid historical reasoning behind it. The comedy of errors going on in the containment of the virus doesn't help dispell such reasoning, either.

        I'm sure Derek can weigh in on this one. He's told us before that a virus looked as if it might be man created. If anyone knows this one, he will, and he can put this issue to bed right now before we have a whole thread of nothing but conspiracy theory.

        I believe conspiracy theories are not a bad thing, actually. They force us to look at the logic of what is going on around us, and a lot of corruption has been uncovered because of them. Too much can cause panick, though, and that is the last thing we need right now. Even if we were to find that the spread is being geoengineered, the last thing that will help us is to panick.
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      • Profile picture of the author hopeful33
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Well, I've read my share of conspiracy theories, but this one has got to close to the top of the list. hahaha ... lollollol .... Thanks for the comedy break.
        look dude our problem that is being exploited in the most horrendous ways is that our memories is short I dunno if you still hearing about avian flu or swine one H1N1 , MERS-Cov .. ?? where these epidemics gone ??! in the time that we hearing that finding treatment is impossible and will taking a lot of month ??!

        with return to conspiracy theories that you are excluding in a stupid way we find that ebola outbreaks since 1976 and I don't know how was eliminated
        anyway this twitter screenshot summarizing everything



        and this is the link if you still not believing >> https://twitter.com/paigevieyra

        my opinion is not based only on this there is a lot to say But I will not prolonging and believe me 98% of people are brainwashing by 2% who take control of media and control public opinion through it and this is the fu*king truth that we don't want to recognize

        good luck
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

      Jody, I couldn't read the story without subscribing. Could you read it?

      ~ Theresa
      Sorry, Theresa. I didn't have to subscribe to read it.

      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Thanks, Dan. Unfortunately, Yahoo didn't provide the full story. I went back to the article I posted, only to find I needed to subscribe or log in. I wanted to copy and paste some of that article here.

      I got it now. Here's the story, note the very last sentence:

      MONROVIA, Liberia--Some of the teams sent to retrieve bodies of suspected Ebola victims here are collecting cash instead, allegedly accepting bribes to issue death certificates to families saying their loved ones died of other causes and leaving the body, locals and health workers say.

      It is a troubling development for an outbreak in which dead bodies are a major source of contagion and one that suggests local corruption could help undermine the international effort to contain the virus.

      Liberian funerals typically include washing the body and keeping it for a wake that can last days as relatives and friends come by and kiss the corpse before it is buried, often in a family cemetery nearby. In addition, Ebola infection carries a stigma in the country and people sometimes don't want to admit a family member died of the disease.

      Andrew Medina-Marino, an epidemiologist at South Africa's University of Pretoria who was recently in Liberia helping with the Ebola response, said he had received reports of people paying bribes to Ebola-response teams so they would look the other way while they washed and buried the bodies. Those bribes contributed to the challenges of containing the epidemic that has killed more than 4,000 people.

      More
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      Interactive: Treating Ebola: By the Numbers
      Health and aid workers say they have for months been hearing reports of secret burials from area residents, and new gravesites appear in cemeteries around the capital overnight.

      "Low-level corruption has a high-level impact," Mr. Medina-Marino said.

      In Caldwell township outside the capital, Commissioner Hawa Johnson said she had stopped issuing burial permits to anyone who didn't have a death certificate from a hospital confirming a non-Ebola death after one of her workers discovered that body-retrieval teams had offered to sell fake death certificates in the community. Similarly, funeral-home directors have said they are double-checking death certificates with the doctor that signed them. But many families just use private plots.

      Community-outreach worker Vincent Chounse said he has seen the negotiation happen four times in front of him in Bardnersville--another township on the outskirts of Monrovia.

      "The family says the person is not an Ebola patient and they pull them away from the other people. Then they say, 'We can give you a certificate from the Ministry of Health that it wasn't Ebola,' " he says. "Sometimes it is $40. Sometimes it is $50....Then they offer bags to them and [the family] carry on their own thing."

      Mr. Chounse, 36 years old, is a local volunteer at the front line of the effort to find a way to handle the bodies of Ebola victims that grieving families will accept and that doesn't risk spreading the disease further. The amount of the Ebola virus in the bloodstream increases as the disease progresses, meaning bodies of the recently deceased are particularly contagious.

      There is a hotline for Liberians to call when someone has died. The Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders and the Liberian government have people manning the teams that go into communities in Montserrado County--which includes the capital city and surrounding townships--to retrieve bodies. Other counties may turn to additional entities to retrieve bodies. Mr. Chounse said he was unsure of the organization employing the people he said solicited bribes.

      The government has decreed that anyone who dies of Ebola should be cremated, both to prevent the spread of disease and because many communities have been refusing to bury the bodies of Ebola victims even when the burial is done according to a strict procedure to prevent transmission.

      The crematorium in Monrovia is incinerating about 60 bodies a day, said Agnes "Cokie" Van der Velde, who manages body-collection teams for Doctors Without Borders. She said she wasn't aware of faked death certificates. She said awareness of the danger of dead bodies has been increasing, but that many families are still reticent to report possible Ebola deaths because they want to have a traditional burial.

      "We are not receiving the amount of community calls that we should be," given the number of people showing up in treatment centers with Ebola, she said. When people do call, it is usually a neighbor or a community-outreach worker like Mr. Chounse, not the family members themselves.

      "We try to be very respectful, but in the end what we're doing is taking their loved one, zipping them in a bag and taking them away," Ms. Van der Velde said.

      Government Information Minister Lewis Brown said his office had received reports of health workers issuing fake death certificates to families so they could avoid the stigma of having to admit a family member died of Ebola, but that they didn't know of anyone selling these certificates, or families using them to keep a body that would otherwise have been taken away. He said body-retrieval teams don't include anyone authorized to rule on how someone died.

      "I know of no burial team with a capacity to go and issue certificates," he said, adding that families of people confirmed to have died of Ebola, and who have a gravesite that will take them, can put in a request for a burial conducted by an authorized team that can do it safely. He explained that cremation was instituted because so many communities were rejecting the bodies of Ebola victims.

      Contacted about the corruption allegations, the Liberian Red Cross said its agents have met resistance, but that none of its 16 teams have taken bribes or left bodies with families.

      "There has been no case where we went into the community and then a family member prevented us absolutely and we didn't take the body," said Oniel Bestman, a spokesman for the Liberian Red Cross.

      The problem doesn't appear to be limited to one region. In Grand Gedeh County, next to Montserrado, 17-year-old Robert Johnson said he saw the man who lives next door to him fall ill with the classic symptoms--vomiting and repeated bathroom trips. When the man died, a body-retrieval team contracted from a local funeral home came to collect the body. When the family protested, Mr. Johnson said, he watched them offer a document certifying that the body was Ebola-free for $150. The man's father paid up, he said.

      Mr. Johnson said he is confused about why the government tells residents to call the body-retrieval teams and then the teams don't insist on taking the corpses. "They told us not to bury the bodies. They told us to call. But now I am not sure if they are the ones trying to eradicate this virus or to make it grow."

      --Peter Wonacott in Pretoria contributed to this article.
      Source: Some Ebola-Stricken African Families Pay Bribes for Fake Death Records - WSJ
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    @Dan (bizgrower)

    I remember clicking on a link that you had posted to the "Wall Street Journal" and I was asked to subscribe or login. I never did see the article.

    The link I posted was also to the WSJ. When I clicked on the link, I got the same message - subscribe or log in. Yet, when I did a google search, I was able to click on the link and read the story without subscribing or logging in.

    Moral of the story: When posting a link to the WSJ, you will be asked to subscribe or log in. Do a google search and you will not be asked to subscribe or log in.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

      Moral of the story: When posting a link to the WSJ, you will be asked to subscribe or log in. Do a google search and you will not be asked to subscribe or log in.
      That's the way you get around the paywall on any of Rupert Murdoch's publications.

      Type the title of the article into Google, and then click through from there.

      This is the reason why Murdoch hates Google so much.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Question - how is West Africa ever going to eradicate ebola when they are burying bodies improperly? I've seen how they are "disposing" of some bodies where they simply put the bodies in dug graves without a hermetically sealed casket, some victims weren't even in bags.

    I know the CDC recommends cremation, and that is being done in some instances, but not all. The poor folks burying these bodies have only a face mask and rubber boots on. Sometimes I've seen gloves, but not very often.

    Any thoughts on this?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

      Question - how is West Africa ever going to eradicate ebola when they are burying bodies improperly? I've seen how they are "disposing" of some bodies where they simply put the bodies in dug graves without a hermetically sealed casket, some victims weren't even in bags.

      I know the CDC recommends cremation, and that is being done in some instances, but not all. The poor folks burying these bodies have only a face mask and rubber boots on. Sometimes I've seen gloves, but not very often.

      Any thoughts on this?
      Unfortunately, in West Africa, ebola is just part of it. When you're starting out with ignorance, extreme poverty, superstition, traditions, complete lack of a cohesive government moving, like Nigeria did, to eradicate ebola, it's a whole lot more than just stopping ebola. The people continue to do the things that spread ebola and I don't see how they're going to stop it, unless the people actually do become afraid and stay away from others. I don't know how they would do that though. They still have to eat and survive.
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      • Profile picture of the author waterotter
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Unfortunately, in West Africa, ebola is just part of it. When you're starting out with ignorance, extreme poverty, superstition, traditions, complete lack of a cohesive government moving, like Nigeria did, to eradicate ebola, it's a whole lot more than just stopping ebola. The people continue to do the things that spread ebola and I don't see how they're going to stop it, unless the people actually do become afraid and stay away from others. I don't know how they would do that though. They still have to eat and survive.
        All the more reason for the "need" of international intervention. I wish they'd quit eating "bush meat", though.

        I hope the vaccines do what they promise and are rushed through as quickly as possible.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

          All the more reason for the "need" of international intervention. I wish they'd quit eating "bush meat", though.

          I hope the vaccines do what they promise and are rushed through as quickly as possible.
          Well that's one of those poverty issues. These people have to eat something and if they can't afford to buy - they're going to hunt. These countries have been receiving enormous amounts of aide from global sources for at least the last two decades. I'm wondering why these people are still hungry - what's being done with the aid?

          For now it seems sending clean food supplies might be a key factor in stopping this outbreak - and maybe chlorine to shock wells and water supplies with. I'm pretty sure since ebola can be contracted off of surfaces that the infected had contact with that it can be spread via water. I might be wrong but it seems a logical assumption.

          This also brings up a disturbing question of whether the only way to keep these areas from being ebola spread dangers is to continue to feed these people since nobody seems to be able (or hasn't tried) to make these areas able to independently support their own numbers.
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          • Profile picture of the author waterotter
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Well that's one of those poverty issues. These people have to eat something and if they can't afford to buy - they're going to hunt. These countries have been receiving enormous amounts of aide from global sources for at least the last two decades. I'm wondering why these people are still hungry - what's being done with the aid?

            For now it seems sending clean food supplies might be a key factor in stopping this outbreak - and maybe chlorine to shock wells and water supplies with. I'm pretty sure since ebola can be contracted off of surfaces that the infected had contact with that it can be spread via water. I might be wrong but it seems a logical assumption.

            This also brings up a disturbing question of whether the only way to keep these areas from being ebola spread dangers is to continue to feed these people since nobody seems to be able (or hasn't tried) to make these areas able to independently support their own numbers.
            As for the aide, we all know about that - the amount donated and the amount received are two different animals.

            The numbers are staggering - this beast needs to be controlled, no matter the cost.

            As for your third point, imo, we need a vaccine that's effective. Without that, we may be doomed as the numbers only continue to rise and, ultimately, this will be a global issue (I believe it's already begun). Until we have a vaccine that's effective, imo, we're beating a dead horse (sorry, Theresa ). If the numbers were lower, my point of view would most likely be entirely different.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    @waterotter
    Unfortunately things won't change until enough relatives and friends die,
    or a military level intervention occurs.

    One of the articles I posted earlier about burial practices talked about
    a guy who took bodies out to an island and buried them there. He
    stopped after one of his crew members came down with Ebola.





    <><><><><><><><><><>

    With respect to WSJ, I bet that after you read the Googled article and then try to click on another article,
    you get the subscription sign up thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      @waterotter
      Unfortunately things won't change until enough relatives and friends die,
      or a military level intervention occurs.

      One of the articles I posted earlier about burial practices talked about
      a guy who took bodies out to an island and buried them there. He
      stopped after one of his crew members came down with Ebola.
      I wonder if that guy is still alive and well? I also get that "culture" plays a role, but how many more need to die?




      <><><><><><><><><><>

      With respect to WSJ, I bet that after you read the Googled article and then try to click on another article,
      you get the subscription sign up thing.

      Dang, Dan - you're right! I guess we have to google each article separately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    Jody, I am still reading this... omg. I also have some interesting stats that I will post in a minute.
    I have to feed the Italian and maybe have a cigar. hahahahaha.. .ok, I didn't mean maybe.

    BRB.
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

      Jody, I am still reading this... omg. I also have some interesting stats that I will post in a minute.
      I have to feed the Italian and maybe have a cigar. hahahahaha.. .ok, I didn't mean maybe.

      BRB.
      Lol, Theresa - Have one for me, please!

      ETA: A cigar, that is! Take your time, don't choke......enjoy! See you in a few minutes.
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      • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
        Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

        Lol, Theresa - Have one for me, please!

        ETA: A cigar, that is! Take your time, don't choke......enjoy! See you in a few minutes.
        Ok Jody... you're a bad kitty.

        The info is on a powerpoint, via your and Dan's link. Sooo, I'm just going to post the link and please read through it. The big points I saw is:
        It has also spread between countries via air travel (one passenger) twice. This was in it's early stages.

        EDIT: Um, here's the link: https://news.yahoo.com/photos/ebola-...470-slideshow/

        It's a slide show, not a powerpoint. I have got to stop drinking beer, smoking cigars and posting! Anyhow, some interesting stuff in there. Some of it has been already posted, but I found what the families are doing (regardless of the disease) interesting and dangerous.

        ~ Theresa
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        • Profile picture of the author waterotter
          Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

          Ok Jody... you're a bad kitty.

          The info is on a powerpoint, via your and Dan's link. Sooo, I'm just going to post the link and please read through it. The big points I saw is:
          It has also spread between countries via air travel (one passenger) twice. This was in it's early stages.
          I hope you enjoyed the cigars Did ya possibly have a few drinks with those??? I only ask as you forgot the link!!!
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          • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
            Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

            I hope you enjoyed the cigars Did ya possibly have a few drinks with those??? I only ask as you forgot the link!!!
            I HAD to have more than one cigar thanks to you! And yes, as you'll see, I edited the post. I did forget the link, I have been drinking beer, and ....

            ~~~~~ TT hh ee rr ee ss aa
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            • Profile picture of the author waterotter
              Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

              I HAD to have more than one cigar thanks to you! And yes, as you'll see, I edited the post. I did forget the link, I have been drinking beer, and ....

              ~~~~~ TT hh ee rr ee ss aa
              Thanks, Theresa - much appreciated. And, thanks for the link!

              Wow, men who have recovered, can still transmit the virus through their semen for up to seven weeks after recovery. <-----that's frightening.

              Great slideshow. Thanks!

              Jody - not staggering yet
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              • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
                Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

                Thanks, Theresa - much appreciated. And, thanks for the link!

                Wow, men who have recovered, can still transmit the virus through their semen for up to seven weeks after recovery. <-----that's frightening.

                Great slideshow. Thanks!

                Jody - not staggering yet
                I am still catching up on all of the links in this thread. I will read the rest in the morning. Right now, I'm finding myself hungry and singing "soft kitty". I have been up since 1 am and now it's time for me to eat and go to bed!

                I have an extra cigar here if you just wanna show up. I'll leave the light on.

                ~ Theresa
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  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    I think the aide subject is what is most frustrating. Why aren't these governments taking action? This has been going on for so long. I honestly feel for these people, but struggle with why we (everyone) keep helping.. I know we have to, my goodness, they need so much, but we're chasing our tails here.

    I understand that we cannot police the world. I so get that. However, I do feel that as a world, no one should be suffering and no one should have to live like this when their leaders are living in riches. Including us.

    I don't know the answer.

    ~ Theresa
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Lol. Theresa - I've ran out of thanks.

    Dang, girl, get some sleep. I hope everything is ok there.

    Jody
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Yes the countries are living purely on aid - and yet the populations are exploding. We can't really justify supporting countries that have no way of self-sufficiency yet continue to double and triple their populations. Now what happens when the global economy tanks? They stop getting that aid and their population is set for complete inhalation because they don't produce the food, they don't clean their water, they don't do anything but wait for aid. This is mostly a gov created issue and the people should be ditching off governments that are keeping them in this astounding a level of abject ignorance and poverty.

    People have to wake up and they have to wake up fast that once an area is pushed over carrying capacity, the only way to contain their problem or lessen it is NOT via aid - it's via immediate negative population growth methods being instituted. Nobody really paid attention to the fact that despite aid there's about a billion starving people in S. Africa. Until now that the poverty and population density and ignorance is causing a global situation. I'm pretty disgusted with our leaders right now - all of them. Everywhere. This situation could have been avoided if appropriate measures for handling poverty would have been instituted decades ago instead of just throwing money at the countries' corrupted, greedy leaders.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    The Dallas hospital now admits that the original patient should have been transferred to a specialized center. Just to illustrate how bad that they messed things up, the Medicine Sans Frontières treated thousands of Ebola patients and had only 16 of their staff contracted Ebola. That hospital treated one patient and two of its staff contracted Ebola. The CDC should have much more proactive in the first place. It will lose a lot of prestige and respect around the world because of this.

    As a long as there is an animal reservoir, Ebola will always be around. This is the same situation as with the SARS virus in Civet Cats. However, there are now stringent procedures in China for handling civet cats, especially with regards to slaughtering them for food.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      The Dallas hospital now admits that the original patient should have been transferred to a specialized center. Just to illustrate how bad that they messed things up, the Medicine Sans Frontières treated thousands of Ebola patients and had only 16 of their staff contracted Ebola. That hospital treated one patient and two of its staff contracted Ebola. The CDC should have much more proactive in the first place. It will lose a lot of prestige and respect around the world because of this.

      As a long as there is an animal reservoir, Ebola will always be around. This is the same situation as with the SARS virus in Civet Cats. However, there are now stringent procedures in China for handling civet cats, especially with regards to slaughtering them for food.
      I have not heard of additional cases stemming from the people who were transported to Nebraska
      or Atlanta. Contamination of the planes and transport vehicles is a concern, and I have not heard
      of any issues there either.

      I hope these places are how we contain it in the US. I understand they are limited by staff and available beds, but it seems to me the US should literally be able to contain this to a handful of cases - if Dallas did not open Pandora's box already.

      I do not understand why, last I read, they have the Dallas nurse's dog at an undisclosed location. I'm sorry, but that seems too risky for the greater good. Monkeys and bats seem to be able to carry and transmit the disease and we don't seem to know enough about dogs. If they can carry it, how long
      would it be before one is safe to be around? And who wants to find out the hard way?

      <><>

      I hear anecdotally that local health care practitioners are asking the right questions. One of my employees brought her kid, age 2, in for pink eye and they asked if they've been near West Africa or near anyone who has... And, this: Colorado Test For Ebola Could Speed Up Diagnosis To 10 Minutes « CBS Denver

      <><>

      On a lighter note (assuming they are not really thinking this), I guess the 20 somethings are posting on
      their Facebooks that this is the start of the zombie apocalypse - especially because Atlanta is being mentioned.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The dog is quarantined and will be tested. We don't just put down people who were exposed in a low risk way - why would we put down a dog? Less chance of a dog being exposed to body fluids than a partner or roommate or family member.

        Would be nice if it were a humane decision but it isn't. Someone with a much loved pet might ignore symptoms or remove an exposed pet to another location prior to seeking treatment...if they know their pet will be destroyed.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          The dog is quarantined and will be tested. We don't just put down people who were exposed in a low risk way - why would we put down a dog? Less chance of a dog being exposed to body fluids than a partner or roommate or family member.

          Would be nice if it were a humane decision but it isn't. Someone with a much loved pet might ignore symptoms or remove an exposed pet to another location prior to seeking treatment...if they know their pet will be destroyed.
          The dog is quarantined in Texas who's track record with ebola now officially sucks. Who knows where that dog is and how many people have had contact with it and how many other dogs have also had contact.

          @Derek. I read that dogs exposed to ebola when tested have shown built up antibodies for ebola, but have not gotten the disease, as far as anyone knows. In Africa, a species of deer, chimps/gorillas and bats can all spread ebola, with bats being an animal reservoir that can spread it, but don't seem to get it themselves.

          Can we, in the US, "create" our own vector here by exposed dogs that build up antibodies, but don't seem to get it? In a country that has so many dogs and dogs live so closely with humans, that would be really frightening.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Ahh - good points. Did not think about someone moving their pet. No easy answers.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well it seems now that the second nurse grabbed a commercial flight and exposed 132 people to her Ebola. And people wonder where conspiracy theories come from. Jeezus o petes, you couldn't write stuff like this crap. The flight stopped in 3 cities - the only one I remember is Ft Lauderdale, FL.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Well it seems now that the second nurse grabbed a commercial flight and exposed 132 people to her Ebola. And people wonder where conspiracy theories come from. Jeezus o petes, you couldn't write stuff like this crap. The flight stopped in 3 cities - the only one I remember is Ft Lauderdale, FL.
      If we survive this, I see a movie in the near future. Or maybe Hollywood has already been there and done that?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Well it seems now that the second nurse grabbed a commercial flight and exposed 132 people to her Ebola. And people wonder where conspiracy theories come from. Jeezus o petes, you couldn't write stuff like this crap. The flight stopped in 3 cities - the only one I remember is Ft Lauderdale, FL.
      Well, I don't see how this constitutes a conspiracy, but it is most certainly stupidity beyond belief. This nurse was told not to take public transportation. She was supposed to be self monitoring. So much for Texas health care "professionals" following protocol.

      In addition, when she went to board the flight, she reported to them that she had a low grade fever. Hello ... did she also report to them that she was an ebola nurse for a dead man?

      They let her on anyway.

      It's spreading in W. Africa due to poverty and ignorance.
      If it spreads here, it will be due to sheer stupidity.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Well, I don't see how this constitutes a conspiracy, but it is most certainly stupidity beyond belief. This nurse was told not to take public transportation. She was supposed to be self monitoring. So much for Texas health care "professionals" following protocol.

        In addition, when she went to board the flight, she reported to them that she had a low grade fever. Hello ... did she also report to them that she was an ebola nurse for a dead man?

        They let her on anyway.

        It's spreading in W. Africa due to poverty and ignorance.
        If it spreads here, it will be due to sheer stupidity.
        I didn't say it did constitute conspiracy - I said it's not hard to see where conspiracy theory comes from..........this crap is so bizarrely idiotic it would almost seem to have to be planned. It's just hard to believe people that work in this country in the health field can be just accidentally this completely flat lining stupid.

        She said she called the CDC twice and they told her that copping a flight out was no problem even though she was running a fever.

        And now we've got politicians and the head of the CDC saying keeping the border open is a good thing. I'm not sure these people can be THIS accidentally stupid. Maybe we should demand leaders go straight to the infected areas in the US to handle it and I bet the stupidity would stop real damned fast.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          I didn't say it did constitute conspiracy - I said it's not hard to see where conspiracy theory comes from..........this crap is so bizarrely idiotic it would almost seem to have to be planned. It's just hard to believe people that work in this country in the health field can be just accidentally this completely flat lining stupid.

          She said she called the CDC twice and they told her that copping a flight out was no problem even though she was running a fever.

          And now we've got politicians and the head of the CDC saying keeping the border open is a good thing. I'm not sure these people can be THIS accidentally stupid. Maybe we should demand leaders go straight to the infected areas in the US to handle it and I bet the stupidity would stop real damned fast.
          That's funny because CDC said that she had "guidelines" that told her no public transportation (probably a statement to cover their ass, after telling her ok). Allowing her on a plane, especially with a fever was beyond stupid. That plane made around 5 other stops before it was taken out of service for cleaning.

          I think it's akin to assault with a deadly weapon that she thought that her convenience was simply more important than all of the other people she could potentially expose. The flight crew and captain are all now on 21 day paid suspension, thanks to her ... but hope your flight was enjoyable ... bitch.

          I think people should keep track of which airports are doing stupid shit like this and bankrupt them. A screener had the opportunity and the duty to not allow her on the flight.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            That's funny because CDC said that she had "guidelines" that told her no public transportation (probably a statement to cover their ass, after telling her ok). Allowing her on a plane, especially with a fever was beyond stupid. That plane made around 5 other stops before it was taken out of service for cleaning.

            I think it's akin to assault with a deadly weapon that she thought that her convenience was simply more important than all of the other people she could potentially expose. The flight crew and captain are all now on 21 day paid suspension, thanks to her ... but hope your flight was enjoyable ... bitch.

            I think people should keep track of which airports are doing stupid shit like this and bankrupt them. A screener had the opportunity and the duty to not allow her on the flight.
            Suzanne, take your outrage over all this and multiply it by a thousand and that won't even come close to how I am feeling over all this.

            If it was up to me, everybody who blatantly put others at risk without any consideration not only for their welfare but the fate of this entire country should be immediately put to death and our government should put into law that anybody who knowingly travels having been exposed to Ebola or showing symptoms should also be put to immediate death. Bury them all 20 feet underground in a landfill and that'll be the end of Ebola in the US.

            I can't believe I'm saying this but NOW is when we actually need a dictator in this country to put an end to this madness because we are obviously either too stupid or inconsiderate of others to do it ourselves.

            In short, bring out the militia and put down everybody who refuses quarantine and/or travel restrictions.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


              If it was up to me, everybody who blatantly put others at risk without any consideration not only for their welfare but the fate of this entire country should be immediately put to death and our government should put into law that anybody who knowingly travels having been exposed to Ebola or showing symptoms should also be put to immediate death. Bury them all 20 feet underground in a landfill and that'll be the end of Ebola in the US.
              Steve - I can't tell you how strongly I disagree with this statement.
              You don't bury the bodies......you burn them.

              The WHO says 5% of the incubation rates take longer than 21 days:

              WHO says that waiting for 42 days from the time when the last person with high risk exposure tests negative for the virus gives sufficient confidence to declare an outbreak over.
              The 42-day period is twice the generally accepted maximum incubation period of the virus. However, some incubation periods are longer - that WHO said that in 95 percent of cases the incubation period was between one and 21 days. In 98 percent it was no longer than 42 days.
              The health agency has said that the virus can survive even longer, remaining for as much as 90 days in the semen of an infected man.
              This quote was from Reuters, but I've seen it on the WHO page. Just didn't keep the link handy.


              We do need to understand one thing when we're looking for "alternate" cures, though. I want anyone considering alternative treatments to read what I'm saying to you here. This is coming from someone who uses natural for almost everything that goes wrong, and does so succesfully - not some dude in a lab with a plan to kill humanity...................


              As far as natural cures. Let's consider - ebola is a biological life form. EVERY biological life form can be killed by some other life form. So natural isn't crazy...........it's risky as hell. When I was working with Ricky, there were a million sites online that had the cure for cancer. Not. Some of them came close with partial information, but none of them had a total working formula.

              I am doing everything I can to keep my immune system cranked because, frankly, Ebola isn't the only virus/disease going around. I really do a quite pointed job of keeping myself well after being chronically ill as a kid and terminally ill a few times. Will that stop Ebola? The answer is: we don't have a rats ass of a clue what is fatal to this thing. The medical industrial complex isn't spending money looking for something in nature to kill it. They're doing what they do -- they're making drugs against it. Before you go off on me..........I'm not saying they should stop that. If this is going to be a global illness, we need something...anything that will stop it. So let them go at it.

              All of those sites that are yacking about natural "cures"? A lot of them have right answers if we were talking about the flu. You can kill flu fairly easily. I attack the flu any time I start to feel it and it's gone in 12 hours. However..............

              Ebola is not the same structure as the flu. It has a completely different construction than other viruses (well, other than Marberg, maybe there one or two others) - but this "shepard's hook" construction had never been seen anywhere before when they discovered it. If you contract ebola, you are not fighting flu - you are fighting an alien virus. We don't know yet what kills it. When you use a natural against it - it's the same as hoping that Martian invader in your living room can't handle water. Nobody knows yet.

              Flu-like symptoms does NOT necessarily mean "flu". Flu remedies can't be considered the answer to something that is not the flu.

              That's what I'm seeing on websites. Salt can dump on Lymes - does not equal salt can kill ebola. Vitamin D/C can tank flu isn't necessarily D/C can tank ebola. It's not the same life form! There is something in nature that will kill Ebola. Every biological form can be killed by some other naturally occurring element, at least on our planet. Are you willing to risk what that is if someone tells you that you just contracted something that kills this swiftly? It's not cancer or borderline hypertension - you don't have time to play with this one at all. Period.

              I still think keeping a strong immune system is crucial today - high population numbers and there's a LOT of contagious stuff to run into floating around out there. I haven't seen one study in Pub-med yet, though that tells anything that might lead to a natural control of ebola. I haven't even found info about what blood pH this stuff likes best.

              Over time, there will be more answers now that the virus has become a global issue. Right now there are no answers - it's 100% punt. It's your life - your choice will ultimately

              If you get quarantined - or are under "watch" - you can eat everything and anything you think will help...........but when you start showing symptoms, you better hope and pray that new untested drug works.....at least for now.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              If it was up to me, everybody who blatantly put others at risk without any consideration not only for their welfare but the fate of this entire country should be immediately put to death and our government should put into law that anybody who knowingly travels having been exposed to Ebola or showing symptoms should also be put to immediate death. Bury them all 20 feet underground in a landfill and that'll be the end of Ebola in the US.
              It would also be the end of rational thinking.


              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Now you're probably going to be safe against the semen unless some infected person comes in and jacks off in your store,
              Man, if I only had a nickel for every time a guy did that in my store.

              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              That's a phrase you don't see every day.
              Well....not every day.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Well....not every day.
                Come on, Claude. I left you out of that post because it was just too easy.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel
                  Now you're probably going to be safe against the semen

                  Dan Riffle;
                  That's a phrase you don't see every day.

                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  Come on, Claude. I left you out of that post because it was just too easy.
                  You make a post about being safe against semen..and you didn't include me?

                  You are dead to me...dead.


                  This is not a joke. Our first customer today, was wearing a mask and gloves...like in a hospital. Yes, it was because she was afraid of catching Ebola.

                  I kept a straight face, and showed empathy for her. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Man, if I only had a nickel for every time a guy did that in my store.
                You do sell vacuum cleaners. I'd assume a niche market of customers...



                (and with that, I'm done here. I drove through Tallmadge this evening. I have to go douse myself with bleach.)
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                • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  You do sell vacuum cleaners. I'd assume a niche market of customers...



                  (and with that, I'm done here. I drove through Tallmadge this evening. I have to go douse myself with bleach.)
                  Never mind. Too easy.
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  • Profile picture of the author OnTheRun
    I've seen an interview with a doctor, on a show last night, she was explaining how ebola is not that easy to 'get'. You'd have to be in contact with bodily fluids, lots of them, otherwise it's difficult to get the disease.

    Or, you can have someone spit on you (like, when you talk with an infected person and a small particle of spit flies over in your eye or something), that would be dangerous but what are the chances.

    I may be too much of an optimist, but I think we'll survive this one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    I just saw this, thought it was an interesting read.

    Weed Protects You From Ebola - Sasquatch Glass

    It's not talking about smokin' a fattie will save you. I will admit that is what I thought initially.

    ~ Theresa

    I don't know much about this subject, so would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Is it a crap article or is there some truth to this?
    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

      I just saw this, thought it was an interesting read.

      Weed Protects You From Ebola - Sasquatch Glass

      It's not talking about smokin' a fattie will save you. I will admit that is what I thought initially.

      ~ Theresa

      I don't know much about this subject, so would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Is it a crap article or is there some truth to this?
      Thanks!
      Written by Medical Director for a medical marijuana company.
      Might be a little biased.

      Their President and CEO is the former Governor of New Mexico
      and claiming it has the potential to cure Ebola - without trials?
      While they are raising investment capital?

      That being said, I don't see how it could hurt - at least ease the pain -
      as long as it is not introduced as a cure and gives false hopes.
      (Until proven one way or another.)

      hicasualcannabis

      Former governor comments on Ebola and marijuana | KRQE News 13
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        One of the disturbing trends showing up during this ebola fright is the number of bloggers/commenters/etc who are claiming medical knowledge they don't have - using this crisis as an excuse to pull out their personal conspiracy and simple-cure viewpoints yet again.

        From vitamins to pot to meditation - everyone has a cure these days. If it were that simple, do you really think the medical community would ignore that bright idea?

        What disturbs me are not the nut cases that use a crisis to push their pet belief....but the number of people who take them seriously.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          One of the disturbing trends showing up during this ebola fright is the number of bloggers/commenters/etc who are claiming medical knowledge they don't have - using this crisis as an excuse to pull out their personal conspiracy and simple-cure viewpoints yet again.

          From vitamins to pot to meditation - everyone has a cure these days. If it were that simple, do you really think the medical community would ignore that bright idea?

          What disturbs me are not the nut cases that use a crisis to push their pet belief....but the number of people who take them seriously.
          Yeah ... there are even warnings on some news sites to beware of sites claiming ebola vaccines and cures. Some of it isn't just the conspiracy theorists, although there's plenty of those. Some of them are looking at this as a new "niche" to make money from by selling "cures" and protection.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I for one want the media to expose every piece of information that they dig up, because we won't always get the truth from the sources, or any information at all. So yay media. Do you job and keep us informed, please.
          I agree - I want to know all the tidbits. However, I want to know ALL of the facts involved in the tidbit. This is a serious epidemic and we need to be aware and we need to get our procedures in order.

          I don't want "nurse risks public health by traveling on plane after ebola exposure"....and then later the news of "99 degrees isn't classed as a 'fever'".

          For someone exposed to ebola - ANY increase in body temperature above normal should be a red flag. This is yet another incident that traces straight to the CDC.

          Like many people, I've always assumed the CDC had it's ducks in a row. They are the experts - everyone defers to the CDC. What we've found is the CDC is a bureaucracy of experts that don't quite have their act together.

          How many of our major programs/agencies in this country are like that? After Katrina, we saw how weak FEMA was - after the Gulf oil spill, the Coast Guard floundered quite a bit - now we see the CDC in inaction. Have all of our trusted public service/protective agencies grown too large and too political to react as they are supposed to?

          Frightening thought - but maybe the preppers have a point about self sufficiency.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            I agree - I want to know all the tidbits. However, I want to know ALL of the facts involved in the tidbit. This is a serious epidemic and we need to be aware and we need to get our procedures in order.

            I don't want "nurse risks public health by traveling on plane after ebola exposure"....and then later the news of "99 degrees isn't classed as a 'fever'".

            For someone exposed to ebola - ANY increase in body temperature above normal should be a red flag. This is yet another incident that traces straight to the CDC.

            Like many people, I've always assumed the CDC had it's ducks in a row. They are the experts - everyone defers to the CDC. What we've found is the CDC is a bureaucracy of experts that don't quite have their act together...
            This is what has happened because that nurse and the CDC thought it was ok for her to travel, and this doesn't include the airline crew that are now quarantined because of her and all the passengers that now have to be monitored.

            Ebola fears grip Cleveland after second US nurse to catch virus stopped off in the city | Daily Mail Online

            Schools and hospitals are on lock-down across Cleveland after it emerged the second US nurse to contract Ebola spent time in the city.

            Amber Jay Vinson, 29, already had a fever when she traveled home to Ohio to plan her wedding and visit her mother last Friday, despite being one of the 76 medical workers from Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital under observation by the Centers for Disease Control.

            She had treated Thomas Eric Duncan, the Ebola 'patient zero.' Health officials say she was told she was at risk for exposure to the disease but boarded a Frontier Airlines flight regardless.

            The news has prompted high schools and medical centers to send home staff and students amid fears that they could have come into contact with Vinson.

            Cleveland Metropolitan School District (CMSD) has ordered a teacher at Cranwood elementary school to stay at home today after learning last night that they may have come in contact with a person diagnosed with the Ebola virus.

            Overnight, the entire school has been 'thoroughly cleaned with a bleach-based cleaning solution according to guidelines provided by the Center for Disease Control,' the board said.

            A few miles south east of Cleveland, staff and pupils were today barred from Solon Middle School and Parkside Elementary School in Solon, Ohio.

            It came after a middle school teacher that works at both schools revealed they had traveled home from Dallas on Frontier Airlines on Tuesday - on a different flight, but possibly the same plane as Vinson, NBC reported.

            Meanwhile, a number of nurses at Cleveland Clinic, The MetroHealth System, and University Hospitals have been placed on paid leave after traveling on the same flight as Vinson.

            They are being monitored for symptoms of fever, nausea or fatigue.

            The hospitals said in a statement: 'We are confident that these nurses are at low risk of exposure since we understand [Vinson] did not have symptoms at the time.

            'We have taken this measure as an extra precautionary step for our employees, patients, and visitors.'

            A stream of people admitted themselves to Cleveland's UH Case Medical Center yesterday claiming to have flown with Vinson but it transpired none had been aboard the same flight.

            According to CDC guidelines, the nurse should have limited her movements.

            He said CDC guidelines would be updated to clarify that air travel should not occur.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Oh ... I forgot ... Dr. Nancy Snyderman, who really should know better, and who obviously could not be trusted with voluntary quarantine, just had to go get her some take-out food. Fortunately, that NBC crew isn't showing symptoms yet, although one of their crew is being treated for ebola. This crew has been at the heart of the epidemic, but think that going out to a restaurant is more important than our health and peace of mind. So now they are under mandatory quarantine.

    CDC boss addresses quarantine violation by NBC News doc Nancy Snyderman - The Washington Post
    Dr. Nancy Snyderman 'deeply sorry' for breaking Ebola quarantine - NY Daily News
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Oh ... I forgot ... Dr. Nancy Snyderman, who really should know better, and who obviously could not be trusted with voluntary quarantine, just had to go get her some take-out food. Fortunately, that NBC crew isn't showing symptoms yet, although one of their crew is being treated for ebola. This crew has been at the heart of the epidemic, but think that going out to a restaurant is more important than our health and peace of mind. So now they are under mandatory quarantine.

      CDC boss addresses quarantine violation by NBC News doc Nancy Snyderman - The Washington Post
      Dr. Nancy Snyderman 'deeply sorry' for breaking Ebola quarantine - NY Daily News
      There is no cure for stupid.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Some of the stories, though, aren't quite the level of stupid they appear to be. A "fever" had been categorized as being any "temperature over 100.4".

        The nurse had a low grade fever that was less than 100 degrees. She CALLED the CDC and told them about her temperature and flight and was not told NOT to fly. She took the right steps - but now the definition of "what is a fever" is being changed.

        Snyderman was just dumb - but from what I saw she drove in the car to the restaurant to pick up food - but someone else (a passenger) actually entered the restaurant and got the food.

        Both are being called "breeches" and were stupid - but not as panic laden as they are presented in the media.

        I was in WalMart yesterday and two women (they weren't together) in the rest room were extremely fearful of touching anything, etc and the fear was "that ebola is spreading".

        We need to grow up a bit and not believe every tidbit of "news" spouted. The point about "dogs" is a good one. Are you going to destroy animals across the country because 3-4 people have a disease? Really? Some would do that and it takes common sense to stop the hysteria.

        Perspective is this: We've treated several people for ebola now in the U.S. Only one has died. That one who passed away infected two other people. He did not contract the virus in this country. In Wet Africa, the death rate is 70% - so far, all but one person treated in the US has survived.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          On CNN yesterday I saw the media playing this to the hilt. One anchor was of the "omg - what is going to happen to us" - while the second anchor was "you must calm down - we don't to create a panic".

          In other words - squeeze every drop of angst out of the "ebola story" while playing both sides so you can claim to be impartial. Right....
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Some of the stories, though, aren't quite the level of stupid they appear to be. A "fever" had been categorized as being any "temperature over 100.4".

          The nurse had a low grade fever that was less than 100 degrees. She CALLED the CDC and told them about her temperature and flight and was not told NOT to fly. She took the right steps - but now the definition of "what is a fever" is being changed.
          I don't think exposing others to a potential deadly virus is the "right steps" by any stretch. A low grade fever from an ordinary Joe Blow is one thing. A low grade fever from a nurse who treated an ebola patient is quite another. It is simply unacceptable for her to expose anyone when she has a fever and it's unacceptable for the CDC to condone it.

          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Snyderman was just dumb - but from what I saw she drove in the car to the restaurant to pick up food - but someone else (a passenger) actually entered the restaurant and got the food.

          Both are being called "breeches" and were stupid - but not as panic laden as they are presented in the media.
          It's not being presented as panic laden in the media. All the media reports are saying that it was a self-centered incredibly stupid thing to do, especially from a Dr., but that none of the crew is showing symptoms, so probably low risk.

          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          We need to grow up a bit and not believe every tidbit of "news" spouted. The point about "dogs" is a good one. Are you going to destroy animals across the country because 3-4 people have a disease? Really? Some would do that and it takes common sense to stop the hysteria.

          Perspective is this: We've treated several people for ebola now in the U.S. Only one has died. That one who passed away infected two other people. He did not contract the virus in this country. In Wet Africa, the death rate is 70% - so far, all but one person treated in the US has survived.
          Only one has died, two more infected from that case and now with those infections plus the plane travel with 123 passengers on board that flight, plus all the other flights that plane took after ... there are now 100s being monitored, just from the Texas case alone.

          I for one want the media to expose every piece of information that they dig up, because we won't always get the truth from the sources, or any information at all. So yay media. Do you job and keep us informed, please.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    @Dr. Nancy - NO SOUP FOR YOU!
    She could not wait, or have it delivered and left on the porch?
    Who is the person who was with her, one of the quarantined crew members?
    Or her S/O moving freely around town?

    The nurse who flew could not stop herself from flying because she has a slight fever
    and had just treated an Ebola patient?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1976153

    I don't care one way or the other if Dr. Nancy gets fired. I do know that if I see her
    reporting again, I will always remember and think of her in a negative light.


    <><>
    Another angle on dogs is that people who come down with Ebola symptoms might
    stay away from treatment because they are afraid of what might happen to their pet.

    <><>

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Today the head of the CDC is in D.C. at "meetings" and "a hearing" answering questions of the Pres and the Congress.

      Maybe I'm snarky - but seems to me he'd do better by being on the JOB rather than catching the Pres and Congressional committees up on what's going on.

      He should be coordinating with his teams - changing protocols - informing hospitals....not making command appearances for politicians.

      We've gone from a nation capable of taking action - to a country where the reaction of leaders is to met up and talk about the issues.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Today the head of the CDC is in D.C. at "meetings" and "a hearing" answering questions of the Pres and the Congress.

        Maybe I'm snarky - but seems to me he'd do better by being on the JOB rather than catching the Pres and Congressional committees up on what's going on.

        He should be coordinating with his teams - changing protocols - informing hospitals....not making command appearances for politicians.

        We've gone from a nation capable of taking action - to a country where the reaction of leaders is to met up and talk about the issues.
        I'm personally glad that there are meetings taking place. Who wants the CDC to continue to "do their job" when they are not doing it well. The airline advice and the lack of CDC involvement in Texas until it was spreading does not inspire confidence that the CDC has been taking this seriously. They need to read the riot act and this country begin to handle this like an intelligent, industrialized, wealthy country is capable of doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    That girl strapped to the gurney spent the past weekend about fifteen minutes from my house. We're all just delighted that she came home for a visit.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      That girl strapped to the gurney spent the past weekend about fifteen minutes from my house. We're all just delighted that she came home for a visit.
      Yeah ... well who's going to let a little ebola get in the way of emergency weddings plans? Sorry to hear that Dan. I can say that it would definitely "bother me" if it were my area.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I don't think that man is in any danger. He's not touching the patient who is in a full hazmat suit - he's not touching the workers who are hazmat suits - ebola is not spread through the air.

      In fact, it's not that easy to get ebola. If it were, Duncan's family would be sick - the sheriff deputies who went into the apartment would be sick. None of them are. The only cases that began in the US are with the nurses who were in direct contact with Duncan and his body fluids while perhaps not wearing the proper protective clothing.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I don't think that man is in any danger. He's not touching the patient who is in a full hazmat suit - he's not touching the workers who are hazmat suits - ebola is not spread through the air.

        In fact, it's not that easy to get ebola. If it were, Duncan's family would be sick - the sheriff deputies who went into the apartment would be sick. None of them are. The only cases that began in the US are with the nurses who were in direct contact with Duncan and his body fluids while perhaps not wearing the proper protective clothing.
        Well, that's the problem with Ebola protocols. People think they can revise and make them up themselves as they see fit and that is why we have not contained the situation in Texas.

        As news helicopters swarmed over Dallas' Love Field on Wednesday evening to watch the second U.S. nurse to contract Ebola board a private plane bound for Atlanta, one lone mysterious man stood out from the pack.

        Holding a clipboard and directing the transfer, the unidentified man seemed to be the only person on the tarmac without protective clothing, wearing just a button down shirt and slacks.

        While Ebola is not an airborne disease, his presence so close to patient Amber Vinson's medical team sparked fears after he was seen grabbing a container and hazmat trash bag from one of the workers' in full-protective gear and later boarding the flight.

        He then flew with Vinson and the other hazmat-suited medical staff to Atlanta and local television crews spotted him with the stricken nurse as she disembarked at the airport in Georgia to be transferred to Emory University Hospital.

        ABC News reports that the man is a supervisor for Phoenix Air, the company that flew Miss Vinson from Dallas to Atlanta.

        When the plane landed in Atlanta, the man had still not donned any protective clothing and was seen openly interacting with Vinson and the other medical professionals caring for the nurse.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          openly interacting with Vinson
          That's the kind of reporting I find objectionable.

          He could NOT "openly interact" with Vinson while she was in a fully protective Hazmat suit.

          I think some of this reaction is directly due to the poor protocols and to experts/CDC/hospital/govt making claims of "no risk" and "can't happen" followed by "low risk - probably won't happen" to "unfortunately it happened".

          When people can't believe those in charge - their imagination provides an enhanced version of reality.

          http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/health/Pl...279357962.html

          So the man WAS part of protocol - the bag he touched was an UNUSED bag which he took from one worker and handed to the workers in the ambulance.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I just watched a few minutes of the "Congressional hearing on ebola" - and I'm embarrassed for this country.

            Degette of Colorado is spinning out long, detailed questions - and wants the CDC guy to give "yes" or "no" answers.

            Grandstanding to the extreme - just before an election - and a total waste of time FOR EXPERTS THAT SHOULD WORKING ON THE PROBLEM instead of acting as foils for Congressional egos. The time to examine the details should come after the crisis has been managed....not in the middle of it.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            That's the kind of reporting I find objectionable.

            He could NOT "openly interact" with Vinson while she was in a fully protective Hazmat suit.

            I think some of this reaction is directly due to the poor protocols and to experts/CDC/hospital/govt making claims of "no risk" and "can't happen" followed by "low risk - probably won't happen" to "unfortunately it happened".

            So the man WAS part of protocol - the bag he touched was an UNUSED bag which he took from one worker and handed to the workers in the ambulance.
            There is now a good explanation being reported for his presence there without a hazmat suit, but really, this incident isn't at the heart of this ebola crisis in the US. It's all of the bungling that has occurred prior to this from day one that has resulted in two states closing some schools, airline passengers having to worry for 21 days, airline staff quarantined for 21 days, a nurse who could care less about everyone else as long as her travel plans aren't interrupted, not cleaning a contaminated apartment for days and days, hospital not following hazmat gear protocols and who knows what other protocols, and on and on.


            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            I just watched a few minutes of the "Congressional hearing on ebola" - and I'm embarrassed for this country.

            Grandstanding to the extreme - just before an election - and a total waste of time FOR EXPERTS THAT SHOULD WORKING ON THE PROBLEM instead of acting as foils for Congressional egos. The time to examine the details should come after the crisis has been managed....not in the middle of it.
            The experts have already botched it. That should be painfully obvious with a Texas hospital now issuing an apology to the US, with a nurse who could give a shit less about others as long as her travel plans aren't interrupted, schools in two states being shut down, airline passengers who have 21 days to worry, airline staff who are quarantined, at least another couple hundred people being monitored in Texas, including people who come into contact with other patients on a daily basis.

            Someone should be questioning and questioning hard, whether you think it's political grandstanding or not. I'm embarrassed that this country has botched this so badly, not because of a meeting going on in DC ... oh, and this thread has lasted this long because politics has been kept out of it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Did he actually even have a reason to be there. He was in charge of the air ambulance, not part of the ground ambulance crew. Maybe he thought ... cool, I'll get my pic in the papers and people on Twitter will go all nuts because I'm not wearing a suit.
              That was the point of the article! He is part of the team and his position is exactly described as what he did. The reason is that the suits limit vision and thus he is there to provide "sight" overview.

              They are grandstanding - and my point is at this time the true experts in ebola containment/transmission/treatment should be focused only on doing their jobs and coordinating response and treatment to help those affect and protect the public.

              Example: The head guy was asked about preventing passengers into the US (which is not in his wheelhouse anyway) - he had barely finished his answer when a Congresswoman jumped in with "so you are saying our Southern border is part of the problem?" You could hear the outrage in her voice!

              No - he was talking about borders of the affected countries in Africa.

              This is a side show being done for public consumption and that's all. If the congressional people wanted real answers they would not be asking mile long leading questions and then saying "just answer yes or no". You have an expert in front of you - let him give you the facts.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                That was the point of the article! He is part of the team and his position is exactly described as what he did. The reason is that the suits limit vision and thus he is there to provide "sight" overview.

                They are grandstanding - and my point is at this time the true experts in ebola containment/transmission/treatment should be focused only on doing their jobs and coordinating response and treatment to help those affect and protect the public.
                .
                Thank you for being sane. I don't always agree with you, but it's a pleasure to read rational thoughts.

                Please adopt me.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Please adopt me.
                  Ok - I could use another pet
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    Ok - I could use another pet
                    Kay, just to warn you, I was going to adopt Claude until he said he wears diapers and is nursing.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      Man, there's always a catch, isn't there?
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        I was thinking about Ebola today. And I was wondering...what percentage of the country's population would have to die from this...before a real panic is justified?

                        In the US, there are 300 million people. Would it be 10 percent? When the black plague killed 10% of the population..is that when they started to worry seriously?

                        Lets be ridiculously low. Let's say that only 1% of our population has Ebola. Would you really be worried then? Maybe I would. After all, that's enough cases that it would be hard to track. It wouldn't upset the economy much, everything would go on the same.

                        That would be 3,000,000 cases in the US. Yeah, even though it's not a high percentage....I might start taking precautions. After all, even at just 1%, it's theoretically possible to be affected by this.

                        So, let me think...do we have 3 million cases? Nope. 300,000 cases? Nope. 300 cases? Nope.

                        If you include the guy that died...we have three. And yet, the cable channels are talking about little else. If three people died from leprosy...would we have this panic? If three people died from AIDS, would it even make the news?

                        Oh well...eventually we'll have people say that NASA brought it to the US, the government planned it all, Monsanto is the one that created it in the first place. and the Illuminati had a cure all along, but held it from us.

                        Have you noticed that the virus takes the shape of a "p"? Which stands for Pestilence.....


                        The prophesy is coming true........
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          I was thinking about Ebola today. And I was wondering...what percentage of the country's population would have to die from this...before a real panic is justified?
                          Yeah .... 3. How many do you want? The whole point is to be as smart as Nigeria was and stop it in it's tracks, which with the stupidity going on, would be unlikely unless that stupidity is stopped.

                          I personally don't think 1% is acceptable rate of infection when a well populated African country can stop it lickety split. The whole point of the CDC doing it's job is to prevent that from happening. That means doing stuff like not allowing ebola exposed and likely infected people with a temperature to get on airplanes.

                          I mean, doesn't that seem like a relatively simple rule? We're not going to keep an occasional person like Duncan arriving infected but without a fever, but for crying out loud ... do we really have to allow a nurse who was directly exposed to ebola and has a fever to travel?

                          If the very first case had been handled like all the cases that we brought over here to our good hospitals, there wouldn't be much to talk about here.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            Yeah .... 3. How many do you want? .
                            Do you mean how many people do I want to die?

                            let me see...I have a list here somewhere......


                            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                            Shep Smith of Fox News is not one of those feeding the hysteria...in-fact here he is railing against the hysteria, panic and the media coverage.
                            You're right, and others are doing the same. But it's all part of the same thing. It's all coverage.

                            Railing against the media coverage...is media coverage.

                            But Ebola (at least in the US) is a new thing. A new subject to get hysterical about. Soon, this will not even be on the news. My guess is, that a few months from now...it won't even be mentioned. Where is the plane that got lost at sea? How many months ago was that?

                            To be completely candid, even I'm posting about it. See? Even people who think that the hysteria is funny.....are posting about it. It's all part of the mix. And a few months from now, we'll have all moved on. That's a guess. But it's a guess based on observation.
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              Do you mean how many people do I want to die?

                              let me see...I have a list here somewhere......
                              Well, you seem to suggest that we don't need to be concerned, or even have this conversation until we're shoveling bodies to the crematorium like Liberia is. According to my not so scientific calculations, that would be a few months if the stupidity keeps up.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                Well, you seem to suggest that we don't need to be concerned, or even have this conversation until we're shoveling bodies to the crematorium like Liberia is. According to my not so scientific calculations, that would be a few months if the stupidity keeps up.
                                This isn't Liberia.
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                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  This isn't Liberia.
                                  Yeah ... most of us don't eat bats or bush meat. Other than that, all we need is more cases being handled like the ones in Texas were to create a real problem. I read there were about 70 staff members at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who treated Duncan, and I'm sure they are treating other patients as well. With every exposure and risk of infection, all of their contacts are also at risk should they show signs of infection. If one nurse was unprepared, I'm sure more of the 70 were also unprepared to avoid infection. Then there's that little airplane incident with 123 passengers being monitored now.

                                  The majority of our hospitals are not equipped or prepared for ebola, as we've already seen. So, an influx of a lot more patients would put a real strain on the few hospitals we have that can competently handle ebola patients without risk of infecting others. One of them has said that they don't want any more than 3 at a time. So if we fill those hospitals up by simply being as careless as we already have been, where does the overflow go? They go to hospitals filled with people and staff who are not prepared or equipped to handle ebola, such as the Texas Presbyterian Hospital.

                                  So I'm concerned. You're not. I wonder how you'd feel if that ebola infected nurse dropped by your vacuum cleaner store, like she did a bridal store.

                                  A Liberian Ebola patient was left in an open area of a Dallas emergency room for hours, and the nurses treating him worked for days without proper protective gear and faced constantly changing protocols, according to a statement released late Tuesday by the largest U.S. nurses' union.

                                  Nurses were forced to use medical tape to secure openings in their flimsy garments, worried that their necks and heads were exposed as they cared for a patient with explosive diarrhea and projectile vomiting, said Deborah Burger of National Nurses United.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                    I'm sure they are treating other patients as well.
                                    You would be wrong. Many of the hospitals care givers are currently quarantined - which is why the hospital is understaffed.

                                    Schools are being closed because a teacher in Ohio flew on the same plane as the nurse....though not on the same flight....

                                    Another school is closing in Ohio because a parent spent time with Vinson while she was there - and that parent and the parent's child (who was not exposed to Vinson in any way) have been quarantined.

                                    Remember - none of the people who stayed with and cared for Duncan while he was showing full symptoms of ebola (and thus contagious) have come down with the disease. None of them!

                                    This is not a disease that is easy to catch - the nurses dealt directly with a full out case of ebola.

                                    In the case of Duncan - the reaction was slow and the response incomplete. Now we seem to be overreacting and over responding.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      You would be wrong. Many of the hospitals care givers are currently quarantined - which is why the hospital is understaffed.
                                      At the time that they were treating Duncan without proper protective gear and under some pretty appalling conditions, they were indeed treating others, according to the nurses themselves

                                      Nurses Treated Ebola Patient Thomas Eric Duncan Without Proper Protective Gear, Group Says
                                      The nurses' statement said they had to "interact with Mr. Duncan with whatever protective equipment was available," even as he produced "a lot of contagious fluids." Duncan's medical records underscore that concern. They also say nurses treating Duncan were also caring for other patients in the hospital and that, in the face of constantly shifting guidelines, they were allowed to follow whichever ones they chose.
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      Remember - none of the people who stayed with and cared for Duncan while he was showing full symptoms of ebola (and thus contagious) have come down with the disease. None of them!

                                      This is not a disease that is easy to catch - the nurses dealt directly with a full out case of ebola.

                                      In the case of Duncan - the reaction was slow and the response incomplete. Now we seem to be overreacting and over responding.
                                      Well, I sure don't see overreacting and over responding. It was just a few days ago she hopped on a plane with a fever with the consent of the CDC.

                                      As for the family not getting it ... the woman involved said that she did not care for him ... that he took care of himself and did not want her exposed to vomit or diarrhea. In addition, the sicker a patient becomes and further along in the disease, the higher the viral load is, so by the time he has explosive diarrhea and projectile vomiting at the hospital, his viral load is much higher than the first couple of days that he showed symptoms. The family's 21 days are nearly up, so lucky them ... they probably won't get it. It remains to be seen yet if any other health care workers get it or anyone else exposed to those two nurses.

                                      As for not being easy to catch, it lives on surfaces for at least a number of hours. People touch surfaces ... all the time. That's why they have big jugs of bleach sitting all over the place in Liberia. Because infected people touch surfaces. I wonder what surfaces the nurse touched that other people touched on her shopping trip?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author garyv
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


                                      Remember - none of the people who stayed with and cared for Duncan while he was showing full symptoms of ebola (and thus contagious) have come down with the disease. None of them!
                                      The 2 current nurses with ebola were caring for him weren't they? Am I missing something here?

                                      I haven't been watching the news, but from what I've read I thought that they cared for Duncan.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                    So I'm concerned. You're not. I wonder how you'd feel if that ebola infected nurse dropped by your vacuum cleaner store, like she did a bridal store.
                                    You think in a very different way than I do.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      You think in a very different way than I do.
                                      I'd say that's true of me and a lot of other people and I'd also say that a lot of other people don't think as I do. So, is that surprising in some way.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                      The 2 current nurses with ebola were caring for him weren't they? Am I missing something here?
                                      Obviously...but I MEANT his family members LIVING WITH him for days while he had symptoms - was vomiting, etc - have not contracted ebola. The time limit for incubation is still running but that's a hopeful sign and shows this disease is not as easily contagious as some seem to believe.

                                      Nurses handle physical waste so the lack of proper protective wear for them was a critical element. Duncan was intubated - he received dialysis - both are high risk procedures for a disease spread with bodily fluids.

                                      Closing a school because one PARENT in the school was exposed to someone with ebola - or because one teacher flew on a later flight in a plane that previously carried someone beginning to show ebola symptoms....seems like an over abundance of caution. On the other hand it doesn't hurt to be overly cautious to a point when children are involved - but where is that point?
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                                      • Profile picture of the author garyv
                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                        Obviously...but I MEANT his family members LIVING WITH him for days while he had symptoms - was vomiting, etc - have not contracted ebola. The time limit for incubation is still running but that's a hopeful sign and shows this disease is not as easily contagious as some seem to believe.

                                        Nurses handle physical waste so the lack of proper protective wear for them was a critical element. Duncan was intubated - he received dialysis - both are high risk procedures for a disease spread with bodily fluids.

                                        Closing a school because one PARENT in the school was exposed to someone with ebola - or because one teacher flew on a later flight in a plane that previously carried someone beginning to show ebola symptoms....seems like an over abundance of caution. On the other hand it doesn't hurt to be overly cautious to a point when children are involved - but where is that point?
                                        It's hard to know - when you see the rate at which the disease is spreading in Africa, you wonder how easy or hard it really is to spread this disease. And in the last few months, it has killed over 200 doctors, nurses, and healthcare workers. People who are supposedly taking precautions not to catch the disease.

                                        This seems like the type of story that would be ripe for conspiracy theories. People are getting sick - but who actually wants to get close enough to interview them?
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                    So I'm concerned. You're not. I wonder how you'd feel if that ebola infected nurse dropped by your vacuum cleaner store, like she did a bridal store.
                                    I think that actually deserves an answer. If she came into my store, and I found out later, it wouldn't bother me at all. I wouldn't even call the CDC..or the news.

                                    Generally, customers that come in my store aren't hugged or kissed or fondled or licked.

                                    Maybe if she paid in cash, and I ate the cash...maybe then I'd be worried.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      I think that actually deserves an answer. If she came into my store, and I found out later, it wouldn't bother me at all. I wouldn't even call the CDC..or the news.

                                      Generally, customers that come in my store aren't hugged or kissed or fondled or licked.

                                      Maybe if she paid in cash, and I ate the cash...maybe then I'd be worried.
                                      Well, fondling and licking aren't necessary to spread ebola. Do you ever shake a customer's hand? Do you ever touch to put away a vacuum that someone has been checking out? Do you put your hands on the same counter space that a customer puts their hands on. You don't need to actually eat it ... just touch something that an infected person touched and then rub your eye or pick your nose or lick your thumb while counting all that dough.

                                      Why do you think the wedding store closed? Because she was infected and she was in there touching stuff.

                                      Why do they go in and clean the apartment or house and schools and buses and planes when an infected person has been there? Because all it takes is a transfer of bodily fluids, like sweat, spit, blood, semen, etc. Now you're probably going to be safe against the semen unless some infected person comes in and jacks off in your store, but sweat is a different matter, and so is spit. People wipe their mouths and noses and eyes all the time.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                        Well, fondling and licking aren't necessary to spread ebola. Do you ever shake a customer's hand?
                                        I'm not an idiot. I ask "Do you have Ebola" and if they say "Yes" I won't shake their hand.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                          Banned
                                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                          I'm not an idiot. I ask "Do you have Ebola" and if they say "Yes" I won't shake their hand.
                                          Well that's a relief. Now I won't worry about you anyway.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                        Now you're probably going to be safe against the semen
                                        That's a phrase you don't see every day.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      Generally, customers that come in my store aren't hugged or kissed or fondled or licked.
                                      Said with a heavy heart and in his wife's presence.

                                      I think we have to look at it the other way around, Claude. It's not what you do to them, it's what they do to you. So, I would think generous odds are in order for an irate customer to - at the very least - spit at you, if for example you sold him a Super Deluxe Turbo Charged Vac . . . with a dead motor.

                                      Get that bubblewrap suit out of mothballs, fast!
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                        We get into arguing our points and sometimes lose track of facts?

                                        No one in the US so far has gotten ebola by ANY method except as a medical caregiver dealing with someone in the most infectious period of the disease.

                                        People in the apt with Duncan have no symptoms - none of the kids in the schools where kids from that apt attended school (4 different schools) have come down with ebola. Not the mailman or relatives who came to see Duncan or people walking by in the street or patients who were in the same emergency room or the people who treated and released Duncan on his first hospital visit.....NONE of them have symptoms of ebola.

                                        No one who used the same grocery store or neighbor in the apartment complex, etc have come down with ebola. If they had, I might buy into some of the scenarios. However, this idea that ebola will spread like wildfire throughout the country due to touching a counter someone touched - or flying in a plane someone previously flew in - is not reality based.

                                        I know people are nervous and knowing you were exposed to someone in any way is enough to frighten anyone. I think it's important not to carry this fear so far that people or businesses are ostracized or damaged because of a one time limited contact with someone who had (then or later) ebola. That has happened in the past with health scares.

                                        Disinfecting makes sense - disinfecting 3-4 times seems a bit obsessive unless they were sloppy the first few times.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                          if I only had a nickel for every time a guy did that in my store.
                                          Yeah - right - another wannabe nickelaire...
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                                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                          Banned
                                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                          We get into arguing our points and sometimes lose track of facts?

                                          No one in the US so far has gotten ebola by ANY method except as a medical caregiver dealing with someone in the most infectious period of the disease.

                                          People in the apt with Duncan have no symptoms - none of the kids in the schools where kids from that apt attended school (4 different schools) have come down with ebola. Not the mailman or relatives who came to see Duncan or people walking by in the street or patients who were in the same emergency room or the people who treated and released Duncan on his first hospital visit.....NONE of them have symptoms of ebola.

                                          No one who used the same grocery store or neighbor in the apartment complex, etc have come down with ebola. If they had, I might buy into some of the scenarios. However, this idea that ebola will spread like wildfire throughout the country due to touching a counter someone touched - or flying in a plane someone previously flew in - is not reality based.

                                          I know people are nervous and knowing you were exposed to someone in any way is enough to frighten anyone. I think it's important not to carry this fear so far that people or businesses are ostracized or damaged because of a one time limited contact with someone who had (then or later) ebola. That has happened in the past with health scares.

                                          Disinfecting makes sense - disinfecting 3-4 times seems a bit obsessive unless they were sloppy the first few times.
                                          The fact is that there are not enough people here running around with ebola at this time to give a lot of thought to surfaces, except for hospitals. I wouldn't go anywhere near the Texas hospital personally, but that's just me.

                                          With no real checks on air travel and ebola running rampant in West Africa, that could change. We're already seeing it. Air travel is spreading it to countries that have not been bothered with it previously, including us.

                                          It is still a fact that you can get it from surfaces. Otherwise no one would bother scrubbing anything. So honestly, I would be uneasy if I knew that I had been shopping in the same store that nurse had just been shopping in. The shop owner obviously felt the same because they closed the store.

                                          Frieden says:
                                          Frieden tried to tamp down fears about an Ebola outbreak in the USA.

                                          "There will not be a large outbreak here (in the USA) barring a mutation (of the virus)," he said.

                                          Frieden, in written testimony submitted for the hearing, also said, "We remain confident that Ebola is not a significant public health threat to the United States ... We know Ebola can be stopped with rapid diagnosis, appropriate triage and meticulous infection-control practices in American hospitals." >>>> (We've already botched the first one badly)

                                          But he also said he feared a larger outbreak of the disease in Africa, which could pose long-term problems for the U.S. health care system.
                                          So, he obviously is worried about the impact of the virus in W. Africa on the American health care system. And he says "There will not be a large outbreak here (in the USA) barring a mutation (of the virus)."

                                          No mass Ebola epidemic in US without 'mutation' CDC

                                          Well, viruses mutate. It's not very likely that it will change it's method of transmission, but it is likely to mutate. That means that all of the vaccines currently under development may not even work by the time they are ready for the public.

                                          For the current study, researchers sequenced 99 Ebola virus genomes collected from 78 patients diagnosed with Ebola in Sierra Leone during the first 24 days of the outbreak (a portion of the patients contributed samples more than once, allowing researchers a clearer view into how the virus can change in a single individual over the course of infection). The team found more than 300 genetic changes that make the 2014 Ebola virus genomes distinct from the viral genomes tied to previous Ebola outbreaks.
                                          Genomic sequencing reveals mutations, insights into 2014 Ebola outbreak -- ScienceDaily
                                          And finally, Five Myths About Ebola
                                          1. Ebola won't spread in rich countries.
                                          Hubris is the greatest danger in wealthy countries -- a sort of smug assumption that advanced technologies and emergency-preparedness plans guarantee that Ebola and other germs will not spread.
                                          hubris denotes overconfident pride and arrogance.

                                          Five myths about Ebola - The Washington Post
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                            I wouldn't go anywhere near the Texas hospital personally, but that's just me.
                                            There was a mention in the news today that the Tx hospital has had many cancellations as patients are afraid to go there. I don't think that is an illogical fear considering what we know happened - and didn't happen - there.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                              Banned
                                              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                              There was a mention in the news today that the Tx hospital has had many cancellations as patients are afraid to go there. I don't think that is an illogical fear considering what we know happened - and didn't happen - there.
                                              I was wondering about that but didn't see anything written about it, but kind of thought that business might be slowing down there a bit. Hopefully, for the long run, it'll do alright. It wasn't their fault that ebola was dumped in their laps. I really think the CDC should have stepped in immediately, and it looks like they'll be doing that from now on, but that hospital was not prepared for what hit them.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                                                Reported today. Interesting.

                                                What's the risk of catching Ebola on a flight?
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                                                • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
                                                  The CDC definitely has a lot to answer for the fiasco in Texas. But as Kay and others pointed, Ebola is not that infectious. Duncan's family members did not get infected despite continuous exposure for days. What may have happened at the Texas was that they carried out procedures on the patient that were at high risk of transmitting the virus i.e. dialysis and intubation.These procedures were discouraged or banned outright during the SARS crisis in 2003.

                                                  In 2003, I worked in the laboratory with the highest number of specimens from SARS patients and the highest number of SARS virus isolates in the world. Not only that, I was the chairman of the safety committee at that laboratory. To make things worse, I had a boss who wanted everyone to appear as unconcerned as possible in order to reduce panic. I certainly did not feel that the containment facilities or the procedures use were safe enough. Should a mishap happen and the virus leaked out from the laboratory, I would certainly have been implicated.

                                                  The mortality of the SARS virus was over 30% in the beginning. Not only that, it could spread by air. During that period, Hong Kong became a virtual ghost city with many people afraid to go out. We had an entire apartment block quarantined. When it became obvious that the inhabitants of that complex were locked in and potentially exposed to more virus, they were moved to an enclosed government camp. At the height of the crisis, nobody would have thought that the virus would ever disappear. Since I worked in a high risk environment, should I have quarantined myself and my family indefinitely? There were doctors and nurses who rented rooms at hotels rather than to risk infecting their families should they come down with SARS. I don't really know the answer but I know when faced with the unknown, a lot of the policies had to be made up as the situation developed.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                    when faced with the unknown, a lot of the policies had to be made up as the situation developed.
                                                    I'd rather have scientists and doctors in charge at a time like that rather than politicians.

                                                    Unortunately, with the CDC at the moment I think we have doctors bending to politicians.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                                                      Interesting.

                                                      CDC warned Americans in 2011 about a Zombie Apocalypse | Daily Mail Online

                                                      CDC - Blogs - Public Health Matters Blog – Preparedness 101: Zombie Apocalypse

                                                      There are all kinds of emergencies out there that we can prepare for. Take a zombie apocalypse for example. That’s right, I said z-o-m-b-i-e a-p-o-c-a-l-y-p-s-e. You may laugh now, but when it happens you’ll be happy you read this, and hey, maybe you’ll even learn a thing or two about how to prepare for a real emergency.
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                        Can't even believe this one - but seems to be true.

                                                        Looks like we'll be appointing an "ebola czar"...yep, we need one more level of bureaucracy....do we get an enterovirus czar, too?
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                          Banned
                                                          It appears that the second nurse didn't tell the entire truth about her health. Nice job. She not only puts strangers at risk, but her own family.

                                                          A federal official said that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had broadened its search for contacts of Amber Joy Vinson, the second nurse infected with Ebola at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital here, after interviewing family members who gave a different version of events from Ms. Vinson's. The nurse had said she had a slight fever before boarding a flight from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday. But family members said she had appeared remote and unwell during her trip to Ohio over the weekend.
                                                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                          I'd rather have scientists and doctors in charge at a time like that rather than politicians.

                                                          Unortunately, with the CDC at the moment I think we have doctors bending to politicians.
                                                          The CDC is a government agency. It is one of the major operating components of the Department of Health and Human Services. Some politicians are essentially, their boss.

                                                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                          Can't even believe this one - but seems to be true.

                                                          Looks like we'll be appointing an "ebola czar"...yep, we need one more level of bureaucracy....do we get an enterovirus czar, too?
                                                          So, that would somehow be detrimental that another expert is working to keep Americans safe from ebola? The idea did not come in a vacuum. Some Senators and Congressman have been calling for it.

                                                          WASHINGTON (AP) -- Under pressure to select an Ebola "czar" to lead the U.S. response against the disease, President Barack Obama conceded Thursday it "may be appropriate" to designate a single individual to head the administration effort.
                                                          Florida U.S. Senator Bill Nelson says the latest developments involving health care workers in Dallas show the need for a more coordinated and better-managed response here at home.

                                                          Nelson's office says the U.S. needs one take-charge person in place to oversee the containment of and response to the threat of this serious infectious disease.
                                                          Senator Jerry Moran of Kansas was one of the first lawmakers to call on the Obama administration to appoint a czar to help coordinate the U.S. response to the Ebola crisis in Africa, along with a cluster of cases at home. Moran co-wrote a letter with Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Va., that encouraged the White House "to consider bringing well respected former administration officials with a background in public health and international diplomacy" to "help lead a united, global response to this serious threat to public health and security."
                                                          McCain: He said, "There has to be some kind of czar" to manage the disease in the U.S. "I'd like to know who's in charge, among other things."
                                                          Sen. John Cornyn: "The President should immediately designate an experienced, proven leader to coordinate a national response involving local, state and federal agencies to contain Ebola in the United States,
                                                          Obama May Name 'Czar' to Oversee Ebola Response
                                                          President Obama raised the possibility on Thursday that he might appoint an "Ebola czar" to manage the government's response to the deadly virus as anxiety grew over the air travel of an infected nurse.
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                                                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                            I don't care how many politicians suggest it - I think it's a cya idea. We have experts in the CDC - let them do their jobs and if they don't - replace them with other experts that WILL do the job.

                                                            Right now what we have is not an epidemic - but a crisis in confidence caused by a lack of preparedness and failure to observe protocol.

                                                            Adding another bureaucrat won't solve the problem but is meant to inspire confidence. Stop the spread of ebola and confidence won't be a problem.


                                                            Ah - I see we've gone ahead with another czar(ina) (how many of those do we have now?)....no experience in medicine or ebola....but lots of experience in politics and talking points.
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                                                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                              Banned
                                                              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                              I don't care how many politicians suggest it - I think it's a cya idea. We have experts in the CDC - let them do their jobs and if they don't - replace them with other experts that WILL do the job.
                                                              .....

                                                              Ah - I see we've gone ahead with another czar(ina) (how many of those do we have now?)....no experience in medicine or ebola....but lots of experience in politics and talking points.
                                                              Right now I'm more worried about chocolate than what a bunch of midterm politicos are doing. If I fretted over every stupid suggestion that Washington puts out, I'd have no time to fret over the fate of chocolate. But yeah ... get rid of Friedan if he can't handle the job and replace him. I have zero confidence in the ebola response thus far.

                                                              Ebola threatens chocolate - Bill Tomson - POLITICO.com
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                I have no doubt of Frieden's qualifications - his problem is he has served in the past to bolster a political viewpoint and you can't be a leader and a toadie in the same sentence.

                                                                Travel bans proposed are an example of Friedan's catch22. He seems to waver depending on the message from the WH - and appears to be waiting for instructions rather than leading the charge against ebola. It may be a wrong perception of the man - but I think it's hurting his credibility.

                                                                Appointing a non-medical person to "lead the fight against ebola" is one of the stupidest things I've seen. What it does is provide a foil to get rid of Frieden - who is the expert the WH appointed and used many times. New Czar - clean sweep - not the WH fault.... We are being spoon fed on some of this.
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                  I have no doubt of Frieden's qualifications - his problem is he has served in the past to bolster a political viewpoint and you can't be a leader and a toadie in the same sentence..
                                                                  As I said, he's a government employee. Nothing more. But go on ... keep talking politics Kay, so we just turn an informative ebola thread into yet another shit storm.
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                                    Yes, please stop the political talk right NOW. This is a serious problem and the possible fate of our country is at stake and this thread, believe it or not, has kept me up to date with what's going on. So please let's not do anything to get this thread closed. It's too important.

                                                                    When I have to be the voice of reason that is just plain sad.

                                                                    Stop it NOW!
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                                                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                                      Banned
                                                                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                                      Yes, please stop the political talk right NOW. This is a serious problem and the possible fate of our country is at stake and this thread, believe it or not, has kept me up to date with what's going on. So please let's not do anything to get this thread closed. It's too important.

                                                                      When I have to be the voice of reason that is just plain sad.

                                                                      Stop it NOW!
                                                                      Very sad indeed

                                                                      just kidding
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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                                        Very sad indeed

                                                                        just kidding
                                                                        You may be kidding but it's the damn truth. We all know what a train wreck I can be. Well that guy is dead and buried. I need to get my crap together as well as my life and I've started to do that. I'm currently working on a pretty big article project for another member here. It's going well and I don't want to mess that up.

                                                                        As far as this Ebola thing, I am a little calmer than I was now that it's been put into perspective as far as my chances of getting it are. Still, I am concerned. If we do what need to be done, we'll be fine. This isn't even close to an epidemic yet. But if we keep making stupid mistakes or don't take this seriously, then I am worried.

                                                                        For now, I'm just going to concentrate on what I can control.
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                                                                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                      It's not a political slant - anyone in his position is going to face a credibility issue in a crisis because this is an "appointment". That's fact.

                                                                      We also have the NIH on this case and they have considerable expertise.

                                                                      The greatest problem we have right now is the sheer panic generated by this disease. We know it's terrible - because we've heard the word "ebola" for years and we've seen it in books and movies.

                                                                      The fact is - the two nurses are the only US citizens who contracted ebola on US soil. Previous ebola patients flown home from Africa did NOT result in a spread of the disease and no one caught ebola from them.

                                                                      The two nurses were primary care givers to the sickest ebola patient and their hospital was not prepared to treat such a patient. Thus, the nurses were exposed to the disease at its worst in a dying patient.

                                                                      The only death from ebola in the US was the Liberian citizen who came here after exposure.

                                                                      We can't lose perspective here - there's no reason to throw up hands and run screaming in circles but that's what some seem to be doing.

                                                                      3 weeks from now - what will we know? We'll know if anyone else who was exposed developed the disease...or not. Right now we need to stop other non-citizen infected people from entering the US - or require a 3 week quarantine either before they fly here - or after they arrive.
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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                        It's not a political slant - anyone in his position is going to face a credibility issue in a crisis because this is an "appointment". That's fact.
                                                                        A government appt. is a gov appt. and your last several posts have just been attempts at slamming the government and the way it works. That's valid ... on some other forum. There's already been several post deletions because someone attempted to turn the thread political.

                                                                        Wanting the latest information and informing ourselves is not the equivalent of running around panicking. I'm not in the least bit panicked at this point, but if the CDC continued to do incredibly stupid things like letting sick ebola nurses fly hither and thither around the country, there will be more cases .... and we're not even close to out of the woods until the hundreds of people being monitored are clear of their 21 days. We've got awhile to go before we know how many more health workers might get sick, and then all of their contacts.

                                                                        Am I panicked ... no
                                                                        Am I arrogant and complacent enough to think there will never be a problem here ... no
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                                          There was an article in today's Star Ledger, our crappy excuse for a newspaper, that Newark International Airport is calling for a ban on all flights from the Ebola stricken countries in Africa and that those people should be put on military flights.

                                                                          I hope this request is taken seriously and put into action ASAP.
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                                                                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                                            Banned
                                                                            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                                            There was an article in today's Star Ledger, our crappy excuse for a newspaper, that Newark International Airport is calling for a ban on all flights from the Ebola stricken countries in Africa and that those people should be put on military flights.

                                                                            I hope this request is taken seriously and put into action ASAP.
                                                                            There's a lot of talk now of banning non-essential flights to and from W. Africa for the time being. I'm all for it.

                                                                            I kept a straight face, and showed empathy for her. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done.
                                                                            Well, that second little Texas nurse apparently lied about when she started to become sick. She said she only noticed a mild fever on Monday when she boarded the plane. Her parents were interviewed probably by CDC and reported that she did not feel well while in Ohio the entire weekend. So I don't think ridiculing people who are worried about contamination in Ohio is useful.
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                                              So I don't think ridiculing people who are worried about contamination in Ohio is useful.
                                                                              Did you have the idea that I was trying to say something useful? That would be wrong.

                                                                              I will admit that the thought occurred to me, to sneeze while she was here...maybe say I was fighting a cold...but my wife would have killed me. And the woman may have been nuts enough to call the CDC...or the police.

                                                                              There are actually a few useful posts here. For example, suggesting ways to help people in Liberia...where the problem is real...and the panic is justified. Posts from the member that's a virologist has value.

                                                                              The rest of us? we're just running around in circles.
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                                                                    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                                                                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                                      Yes, please stop the political talk right NOW. This is a serious problem and the possible fate of our country is at stake and this thread, believe it or not, has kept me up to date with what's going on. So please let's not do anything to get this thread closed. It's too important.

                                                                      When I have to be the voice of reason that is just plain sad.

                                                                      Stop it NOW!
                                                                      That's not the voice of reason, it's the voice of frightened.

                                                                      When you're talking about a government's response to a problem, it's driven by politics. The effectiveness of the response is in direct proportion to how the power and influence of the major players is distributed.

                                                                      Steve, this is ALL politics. Every bit of it. We know the scientific parts of the problem.

                                                                      The current head of the CDC has no juice, and no balls to use it even if he had it.

                                                                      I hate the concept of 'czars' for this and 'czars' for that. 'Czars' were Russian dictators. In our government, they don't have any juice either, because they (at least at this point in time) haven't been granted any by law.

                                                                      How safe - or unsafe - the country is depends on the clowns in Washington, D.C. pulling and keeping their heads out of their behinds and focusing on preventing the introduction of the disease into the country. That includes the President and everyone in the Congress. There isn't any partisanship in this - there's only stupidly dangerous political correctness on one side, and inconvenient practicality on the other side.

                                                                      Control the borders NOW. Stop the flood from Mexico. Quarantine anyone entering the country that shows a travel history to Africa.
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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                                        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                                                                        That's not the voice of reason, it's the voice of frightened.

                                                                        When you're talking about a government's response to a problem, it's driven by politics. The effectiveness of the response is in direct proportion to how the power and influence of the major players is distributed.

                                                                        Steve, this is ALL politics. Every bit of it. We know the scientific parts of the problem.

                                                                        The current head of the CDC has no juice, and no balls to use it even if he had it.

                                                                        I hate the concept of 'czars' for this and 'czars' for that. 'Czars' were Russian dictators. In our government, they don't have any juice either, because they (at least at this point in time) haven't been granted any by law.

                                                                        How safe - or unsafe - the country is depends on the clowns in Washington, D.C. pulling and keeping their heads out of their behinds and focusing on preventing the introduction of the disease into the country. That includes the President and everyone in the Congress. There isn't any partisanship in this - there's only stupidly dangerous political correctness on one side, and inconvenient practicality on the other side.

                                                                        Control the borders NOW. Stop the flood from Mexico. Quarantine anyone entering the country that shows a travel history to Africa.
                                                                        Whether it is all politics or not is besides the point. It cannot be discussed HERE. Doing so jeopardizes this thread and it's too important to let that happen...period
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                                                                          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                                          Whether it is all politics or not is besides the point. It cannot be discussed HERE. Doing so jeopardizes this thread and it's too important to let that happen...period
                                                                          Oh, baloney.

                                                                          The rule is for partisan politics, which this isn't. The couple of posts that went over the line of "it's THIS party's fault" or "it's because he's a <insert party here>" got deleted, as they should have been.

                                                                          This thread isn't important. There's no breaking news here. We're just talking.

                                                                          And really, when we're talking about stupidity and ineffectiveness in government, it's not political. Unfortunately, it's reality. As Forest Gump's mama said, "Stupid is as stupid does," and there's a pretty obvious display of that all around in the government response to this issue.
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                                                                          • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
                                                                            It IS breaking NEWS now.

                                                                            Impact of possibility.

                                                                            We in Summit County, OH, find ourselves on the front page today as the second confirmed case has been reported to have visited here last week. The IMPACT.

                                                                            Schools all over Northeast Ohio have closed. The local Mall, Chapel Hill, is a ghost town, reports of scores of workers calling off (it is believed to have been visited by the nurse with ebola).

                                                                            Visit ohio.com to see some of the IMPACT.

                                                                            Whether or not anyone has the virus, or will show signs of it, the next 3 weeks will kill several businesses, Chapel Hill mall is already in receivership, this could put it under. Dozens of businesses in the area of the bridal party visit are closed today.

                                                                            5 cdc "operatives" are in the area. Local hospitals are receiving calls...all this because an infected nurse visited here...and may have been (or may not have been) contagious.

                                                                            Ohio National Guard on alert. This is today, Oct. 17, 2014.


                                                                            Will this scenario replicate across America? This should show us a lot about the professionals, the politicians and the people.

                                                                            I'm going to keep a close eye on the area and the reactions, unfounded fear could be a killer to many businesses, even if ebola does not show up here.

                                                                            gjabiz

                                                                            PS. Or, the fear could be very real, time will tell us and we should know what truth re ebola is.
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                                                                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                            The interesting thing in a thread like this is due to varied interest. We get info and news from different sources and here we compare and link to and discuss those tidbits. That expands everyone's horizon to some extent.

                                                                            Also interesting to see how others view that same news report - and at times realizing their interpretation made more sense than your own.


                                                                            edit:

                                                                            We in Summit County, OH
                                                                            Wow - that means we have more of a brain trust in Ohio that I realized - that's you and
                                                                            Riffle and Claude and, soon, me. ...or was that brain bust..not sure
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                                              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                              The interesting thing in a thread like this is due to varied interest. We get info and news from different sources and here we compare and link to and discuss those tidbits. That expands everyone's horizon to some extent.

                                                                              Also interesting to see how others view that same news report - and at times realizing their interpretation made more sense than your own.


                                                                              edit:



                                                                              Wow - that means we have more of a brain trust in Ohio that I realized - that's you and
                                                                              Riffle and Claude and, soon, me. ...or was that brain bust..not sure
                                                                              You just mentioned three of the brightest people here...and Riffle.
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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                        Let's get real - we aren't doing anything "important" here - we are all pretty much parroting what we hear on the news or read online. If you are getting your "ebola news" on this forum it's time expand your horizons.

                                                                        We have Homeland Security- for security. We have HHS, NIH, CDC....and now we have a new czar - with no medical, scientific or security background. Does that make you feel safer?

                                                                        So I don't think ridiculing people who are worried about contamination in Ohio is useful.
                                                                        In a different town?

                                                                        Am I the only one who sees the humor? A woman so afraid of exposure to ebola goes out in protective gear because she MUST visit the vacuum store?
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                                          Banned
                                                                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                          Let's get real - we aren't doing anything "important" here - we are all pretty much parroting what we hear on the news or read online. If you are getting your "ebola news" on this forum it's time expand your horizons.

                                                                          We have Homeland Security- for security. We have HHS, NIH, CDC....and now we have a new czar - with no medical, scientific or security background. Does that make you feel safer?

                                                                          In a different town?

                                                                          Am I the only one who sees the humor? A woman so afraid of exposure to ebola goes out in protective gear because she MUST visit the vacuum store?
                                                                          Well Kay ... there's actually nothing important going on anywhere in this forum. Since I've cited my resources, it should be obvious that I'm not getting my ebola information from this forum. It's just conversation, and I've found it particularly interesting until people attempt to turn it into yet another political rant thread. You seemed to object to that as well when Liberator made a couple of politically oriented posts.

                                                                          As for which towns in Ohio and which stores that she graced with her presence, who knows. The fact is, she shouldn't have been there at all, especially since she was already sick. I wonder if her parents are feeling all warm and fuzzy about her visit now that they know that she was sick when she got there. People will indeed panic when it comes to their area, whether you or I or Claude thinks it's warranted.
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                          Let's get real - we aren't doing anything "important" here - we are all pretty much parroting what we hear on the news or read online. If you are getting your "ebola news" on this forum it's time expand your horizons.

                                                                          We have Homeland Security- for security. We have HHS, NIH, CDC....and now we have a new czar - with no medical, scientific or security background. Does that make you feel safer?

                                                                          In a different town?

                                                                          Am I the only one who sees the humor? A woman so afraid of exposure to ebola goes out in protective gear because she MUST visit the vacuum store?
                                                                          Maybe in the grand scheme of things this thread isn't important. But it does 2 things for me that are very important to me.

                                                                          1) Keeps me informed on what's going on. I'm not a CNN hopper or whatever. I don't like going to the news sites and having to wade through all the info.

                                                                          2) The level headed people here have actually put my mind at ease some as far as my real chances of getting Ebola. For that I am very grateful.

                                                                          Those are my two reasons for now wanting to get this thread nuked.
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                          Banned
                                                                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                          Let's get real - we aren't doing anything "important" here - we are all pretty much parroting what we hear on the news or read online. If you are getting your "ebola news" on this forum it's time expand your horizons.
                                                                          Probably the most salient post in this thread.

                                                                          However, you left out, "the injection of our own baseless fears."

                                                                          Sorry if there are any typos. It's really hard to type in a hazmat suit. Well, my dog did sneeze earlier. I'm not taking any chances.

                                                                          Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                                        Banned
                                                                        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                                                                        The current head of the CDC has no juice, and no balls to use it even if he had it.

                                                                        How safe - or unsafe - the country is depends on the clowns in Washington, D.C. pulling and keeping their heads out of their behinds and focusing on preventing the introduction of the disease into the country. That includes the President and everyone in the Congress. There isn't any partisanship in this - there's only stupidly dangerous political correctness on one side, and inconvenient practicality on the other side.

                                                                        Control the borders NOW. Stop the flood from Mexico. Quarantine anyone entering the country that shows a travel history to Africa.
                                                                        I'm all for controlling illegal immigration, but ebola isn't coming from Mexico. I'm for just stopping non-essential traffic to and from W. Africa until the situation there is under control.

                                                                        As for Friedan, no power or balls ... I don't really know, but the magnitude of the stupidity in which this crisis has been handled makes me think that he is not the brightest guy for the job.
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                                                                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                                          I'm all for controlling illegal immigration, but ebola isn't coming from Mexico. I'm for just stopping non-essential traffic to and from W. Africa until the situation there is under control.
                                                                          I really wasn't talking about illegal immigration as such, really. Here's my point: when you've stopped all the flights in from W. Africa, and someone is desperate to get into the US despite that, what's to stop them from flying into a northern Mexico city and crossing the border? Nothing, at the moment.

                                                                          And honestly, I'm not even saying that it's called for at this point. I think the fear is overblown, although we're seeing how easily something like this could become a real problem if certain things take place.

                                                                          Many people are scared, maybe for good reason, maybe not. All I know is that the similarity of the government's response to a Keystone Cops clip is disturbing.
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                                                                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                                            Banned
                                                                            Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                                                                            I really wasn't talking about illegal immigration as such, really. Here's my point: when you've stopped all the flights in from W. Africa, and someone is desperate to get into the US despite that, what's to stop them from flying into a northern Mexico city and crossing the border? Nothing, at the moment.

                                                                            And honestly, I'm not even saying that it's called for at this point. I think the fear is overblown, although we're seeing how easily something like this could become a real problem if certain things take place.

                                                                            Many people are scared, maybe for good reason, maybe not. All I know is that the similarity of the government's response to a Keystone Cops clip is disturbing.
                                                                            I agree Steve .. it's very disturbing. When you first started this thread, I posted that the US will never have a serious problem. I don't feel that way due to how stupidly this one has been handled. Unfortunately for the people ... this kind of mishandling is just going to make people panic or at least be fearful.

                                                                            The one reason I just read today that they're giving for not stopping the traffic to and from W. Africa is that it will force people to sneak in some other way. That's a possibility of course, but your average W. African ebola victim has very limited resources. It's fortunate for us that more of them can't afford to travel. I don't want to sound unsympathetic to their plight, because I do think that humanitarian travel is critical to W. Africa, and ultimately, stopping the threat of ebola in the US will be done by stopping it in W. Africa, at the source.

                                                                            But I still agree ... our borders should be secured for a lot of reasons, not just because someone trying to sneak into here with ebola might come that way. What Friedan says about it are here
                                                                            Ebola Is Coming. A Travel Ban Won't Stop Outbreaks - Forbes

                                                                            Just look at that chart of air traffic that's on that page to see the potential spread due to air travel.

                                                                            gjabiz's post http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9602997 is a stunning example of what will happen in this country if smarter people aren't taking control of this situation. Quite sad that people's businesses and peace of mind are so impacted by a stupid nurse who wanted to travel for wedding plans before her 21 days were up ... and when she wasn't feeling well.

                                                                            Who knows ... maybe the new czar is being appointed to oversee Friedan exclusively to keep him from doing anything else stupid. It might create just more panic and confusion if he were to be fired during the crisis, so having someone smack him upside his head for stupidity might be the plan. Who knows.

                                                                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                                            Did you have the idea that I was trying to say something useful? That would be wrong.
                                                                            Don't be ridiculous. I was not under that illusion. I fully expected it to become another Off Topic comedy hour.
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                                              It happened. My first e-mail promising a cure for Ebola. I didn't open it.

                                                                              Human beings are such a funny lot.
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                                                                              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                                                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                                                It happened. My first e-mail promising a cure for Ebola. I didn't open it.

                                                                                Human beings are such a funny lot.
                                                                                Natural News has a whole series going on how you can defend yourself against ebola and against any other man made crises. I haven't looked at any of it......not going to........but I bet that he's raking in bucks by bushels. He's really fear mongering on the ebola thing - I'm not sure if he's said anything about entrovirus but I'm sure that the other really worrisome viruses going around right now are covered. Ebola is the fear point he's using to sell his series, though.

                                                                                Which is a point, too. I'm wondering why nobody has mentioned the EE epidemic out in the Eastern States right now. That might start in Horses, but humans can, and are getting it in some instances. It seems that might be something that people would be a tad afraid of, too - yet nobody seems to even KNOW it's there. Or that there's been 2 cases of plague in Colorado recently - and that Anthrax is showing back up here, too.
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                                                                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                                                                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                                                    I wonder if people really click on the 20 ads per page on that site. It's little more than a billboard and a page with ebola typed all over it.
                                                                                    You must be looking at a different page unless he's changed his. I read some stuff he puts up there......but there's always need of checking out what he says further. He's right sometimes - many times he's right but sensationalizes to hell and back when it will get him some customers. He has very good info about the toxic metal content of different brands of foods - that one he has his own labs to check on and he's really good source for that particular info. He's also got a few natural products on his site that are extremely good products. I hate that he sensationalizes, though. I don't think he realizes how much better off he'd be if he stuck more to fact than sensation. A lot of his info on ebola is credible, but it's blown out of whack to sell his product and that's where he loses anyone with more than half a brain.
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                                                                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                                                      Banned
                                                                                      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                                                                      You must be looking at a different page unless he's changed his.
                                                                                      I just clicked on an article, but I was wrong. It's actually 31 ads if you count the self promotional ads. Been a long time since I've seen that much advertising on a webpage.

                                                                                      But I did look up Colorado plague. Interesting. They've had 60 cases of plague since 1957 with 9 deaths.

                                                                                      Looked up EE epidemic that's supposed to be where I live. What exactly is EE epidemic because Google doesn't know what EE epidemic is.

                                                                                      Three more plague cases were found in Colorado, a week after the first infection of the deadliest form of the disease was reported in the state in a decade.

                                                                                      Colorado has had 60 cases of all types of plague since 1957, and nine people have died. Twelve cases of plague have occurred in the past decade in the state. The state's investigation is ongoing, House said.

                                                                                      Plague in all of its forms usually infects an average of seven people yearly in the U.S., and is found mostly in the western states of Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The disease is transmitted by fleas, which pick up a bacterium called Yersinia pestis in infected animals such as chipmunks, prairie dogs, ground squirrels, mice and other mammals.

                                                                                      "While this is not a daily, weekly, or monthly occurrence, it isn't without precedence," said Jim Siedlecki, director of public information of Adams County, where the original victim lives, in a telephone interview. "A case of plague where fleas and prairie dogs are involved isn't earth shattering for Colorado."
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                                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                                                                                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                                                        Looked up EE epidemic that's supposed to be where I live. What exactly is EE epidemic because Google doesn't know what EE epidemic is.
                                                                                        I think she's referring to Eastern Equine Encephalitis (eee virus) (correct me if I'm wrong, Sal):

                                                                                        4 horses die in Northeast Ohio from eastern equine encephalitis; no human cases found so far | cleveland.com
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                                                                                        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                                                                          I sooooo hate running out of thanks.

                                                                                          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                                                                                          I think she's referring to Eastern Equine Encephalitis (eee virus) (correct me if I'm wrong, Sal):

                                                                                          4 horses die in Northeast Ohio from eastern equine encephalitis; no human cases found so far | cleveland.com
                                                                                          That's correct. I missed an E. It has jumped to humans, and it's also spreading. It's pretty vicious, too.

                                                                                          MI, NJ MD, MA, OH, NH, NY - all have EEE going around. 4 people have been checked in OK for Menengitis. Not sure the outcome.

                                                                                          Places where people are suspected of Ebola right now: Mobile Alabama, DC, Yale(Conn) is treating one person. Texas - woman landed being tested, marine is quarantined
                                                                                          Norway has an infected woman, Denmark one suspected, Called an outbreak in Germany - one dead in hospital, not sure how many infected. France, first ebola patient left hospital so survived. Spain - Priest and nurse. One in Macedonnia - dead.

                                                                                          There's another haemorrhagic fever called Crimean-Congo fever going around - Oman, Pakistan, Azurbaijan. This one is usually spread by ticks but can be spread by sick humans. Seems like you have to be in contact with the bodily fluids to get it from another human. 30% mortality rate on that one.


                                                                                          In other viruses in the US:
                                                                                          A cow just tested positive for anthrax in TX.

                                                                                          Entrovirus is in most states now.

                                                                                          Chikungunya virus is in TX and NJ - but it's really rare to die from it. It's just miserable.

                                                                                          Tularemia is in 4 counties in CO now.

                                                                                          There's viruses all over the world right now. The most germ free country seems to be Russia which only has Swine flu right now. Maybe isolationism will become a new trend as more and more of the world gets more diseased from diseases being passed around in the countries that travel is fairly free and frequent.
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                                                                                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                                                            Banned
                                                                                            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                                                                            There's viruses all over the world right now. The most germ free country seems to be Russia which only has Swine flu right now. Maybe isolationism will become a new trend as more and more of the world gets more diseased from diseases being passed around in the countries that travel is fairly free and frequent.
                                                                                            There's always viruses all over the world. None of this is news and none of it in the US is an epidemic. Enterovirus appears to be the prolific one going around, but even that is not taking a heavy toll.
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                                                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                                Right now I'm more worried about chocolate than what a bunch of midterm politicos are doing. If I fretted over every stupid suggestion that Washington puts out, I'd have no time to fret over the fate of chocolate.
                                                                Oh, crap! Up until now, I wasn't overly worried about ebola. But the world's chocolate supply being threatened by it??? NOW I'm panicking!!!
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                                  Banned
                                                                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                                                  Natural News has a whole series going on how you can defend yourself against ebola and against any other man made crises. I haven't looked at any of it......not going to........but I bet that he's raking in bucks by bushels.
                                                                  I wonder if people really click on the 20 ads per page on that site. It's little more than a billboard and a page with ebola typed all over it.

                                                                  Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                                                                  Oh, crap! Up until now, I wasn't overly worried about ebola. But the world's chocolate supply being threatened by it??? NOW I'm panicking!!!
                                                                  I know ... if that doesn't scare ya, nothing will.
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                        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                          If you include the guy that died...we have three. And yet, the cable channels are talking about little else. If three people died from leprosy...would we have this panic? If three people died from AIDS, would it even make the news?
                          Shep Smith of Fox News is not one of those feeding the hysteria...in-fact here he is railing against the hysteria, panic and the media coverage.


                          Cheers

                          -don
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                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                            Shep Smith of Fox News is not one of those feeding the hysteria...in-fact here he is railing against the hysteria, panic and the media coverage.

                            Shepard Smith Blasts Media For Hysterical,Irresponsible Ebola Coverage - YouTube

                            Cheers

                            -don
                            I agree with him but there is one thing he's not taking into account and it's really the whole ball game.

                            If somebody with symptoms attempts to get on a plane to this country and they are not stopped then there is a strong likelihood that this virus will spread.

                            We're not talking about something that's difficult to do either. You don't need a PhD to keep somebody with possible Ebola symptoms off of a plane. Yet, it seems we're incapable of doing this one simple thing.

                            So until this country starts acting responsibly and doing the simple things that need to be done, no, I won't panic. But I also won't rest easy until those simple things ARE done.
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                              If somebody with symptoms attempts to get on a plane to this country and they are not stopped then there is a strong likelihood that this virus will spread.

                              We're not talking about something that's difficult to do either. You don't need a PhD to keep somebody with possible Ebola symptoms off of a plane. Yet, it seems we're incapable of doing this one simple thing.
                              Don't even seem to be capable of preventing infected people in this country from traveling by air, so I have little hope that there's any serious screening going on in the airports.

                              I'll bet this little wedding shop is grateful for the nurse's business.

                              News of Vinson's weekend trip to plan her wedding has sowed panic in northeastern Ohio, where nurses who were on one of her flights were put on paid leave from work, two schools were closed for cleaning because a parent had contact with her, and a bridal shop she visited was shuttered.
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                            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                              I agree with him but there is one thing he's not taking into account and it's really the whole ball game.

                              If somebody with symptoms attempts to get on a plane to this country and they are not stopped then there is a strong likelihood that this virus will spread.

                              We're not talking about something that's difficult to do either. You don't need a PhD to keep somebody with possible Ebola symptoms off of a plane. Yet, it seems we're incapable of doing this one simple thing.

                              So until this country starts acting responsibly and doing the simple things that need to be done, no, I won't panic. But I also won't rest easy until those simple things ARE done.
                              Steve, we can't stop people that are not yet symptomatic from getting on planes --> unless we institute a blanket ban on people coming to this country from certain areas of the world. We are not banning people flying in that have recently visited the heavily affected regions that do not show symptoms.

                              This country is doing some things... Like instituting some airport screenings (I have no idea how effective they will be) and sending 3000-4000 troops to Africa to help out where the spread of the disease needs to be stopped. The CDC has put out many directives, some of which proved not so effective when the supposed "computer glitch" allowed Patient Zero to be sent on his way. Has everything gone smoothly with the way people stricken with Ebola have been handled here in the US? No. Should the CDC have told that nurse she can fly commercial? No.

                              It appears as if proper protocols have not been fully developed or instituted in this country --> and this does not surprise me since we have not had an Ebola case on our soil until now. Will the protocols be refined and get better? We can only hope so, and it appears some changes are being made as evidenced by what is happening with the Texas hospital.

                              Lightning (and other diseases) can strike anywhere and the complications from the flu kills many --> so I suppose you don't sleep so easy anyway. Ebola is not easily transmitted, and it's not airborne, so it's highly unlikely we will see a widespread outbreak here.

                              Would I support certain travel restrictions on people with passports recently stamped from East Africa and other affected regions? Quite possibly I would. Do I support proper handling of Ebola patients, their belongings and surrounding spaces? Of course I do.

                              Do we have a widespread outbreak here? Not in your wildest dreams.

                              Cheers

                              -don
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                That was the point of the article! He is part of the team and his position is exactly described as what he did. The reason is that the suits limit vision and thus he is there to provide "sight" overview.
                You quoted my post before it was revised after I read an additional article about why the clipboard man was even there.

                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                They are grandstanding - and my point is at this time the true experts in ebola containment/transmission/treatment should be focused only on doing their jobs and coordinating response and treatment to help those affect and protect the public.

                Example: The head guy was asked about preventing passengers into the US (which is not in his wheelhouse anyway) - he had barely finished his answer when a Congresswoman jumped in with "so you are saying our Southern border is part of the problem?" You could hear the outrage in her voice!

                No - he was talking about borders of the affected countries in Africa.

                This is a side show being done for public consumption and that's all. If the congressional people wanted real answers they would not be asking mile long leading questions and then saying "just answer yes or no". You have an expert in front of you - let him give you the facts.
                As I said ... whether you like the political process or not, this ebola thread has lasted because it has remained not political. It's a good discussion on ebola, not congress and senators, but I am certain that the meeting at the white house with top health officials was a whole different ballgame.

                The CDC blew it big time by giving the OK to that nurse to board that plane and they do need to answer questions about why they would allow that. The havoc it has created is obvious and without someone higher up saying ... that shit's got to stop now, who knows how many more stupid mistakes will be made.

                If the CDC worked for a private company, the President of that company would have called them on the carpet mid-stream to correct the direction that this is going in ... only this is real and not a private company. It's ebola, and thus a bit more important than anything a private company does for profits.
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      That girl strapped to the gurney spent the past weekend about fifteen minutes from my house. We're all just delighted that she came home for a visit.
      That's got to be nerve-racking. Stay safe, Dan.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

        That's got to be nerve-racking. Stay safe, Dan.

        I'm not sure what's worse: Being 15 minutes away from an ebola outbreak or 45 minutes away from Claude.
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        • Profile picture of the author waterotter
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          I'm not sure what's worse: Being 15 minutes away from an ebola outbreak or 45 minutes away from Claude.
          Lol, Dan! My thanks button is mia.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Amber Jay Vinson, 29, already had a fever when she traveled home to Ohio to plan her wedding and visit her mother last Friday, despite being one of the 76 medical workers from Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital under observation by the Centers for Disease Control.
    Why the hell didn't she pass go and go straight to a hospital??? I really question Nurse Vinson's ability to to make sound judgment calls. Maybe her license needs to be revoked? I wouldn't want her caring for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Nurse with Ebola virus to be moved out of Dallas

    The first nurse to test positive for the Ebola virus will be transferred from a Dallas hospital to a National Institutes of Health facility in Bethesda, Md., multiple news outlets reported Thursday.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Are UK Ebola Protocols the Current Gold Standard?
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Banned
    Maybe they should nuke West Africa.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I'm not opposed the right person being in charge. I thought it might be the right CDC director, though. Not the current head of CDC. (I'm in favor of the guy who is now at ABC as Chief Medical correspondent.) Perhaps
    the CDC does not have enough teeth for the job of directing everything.

    Here is World Net Daily's take. They give McCain credit for the idea. Hopefully she'll
    be smart enough to listen to smarter people with the right background.

    Obama Ebola czar: Zero medical experience
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Good for you, Steve. Stay focused.

    I know it has not been the 42 days, but there have not been reports
    of anybody showing signs of the disease from the Dallas flying nurse's fiasco.
    Usually it's 5 - 6 days for symptoms? and we are about there now.

    The chocolate thing. Now that's something to fret about.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Here's part of the problem, if you want to frame it that way: our system of government - our laws - doesn't allow for a 'czar' to have full control over this type of situation.

    Somebody earlier remarked that the CDC should have stepped in earlier. They didn't/don't have the statutory authority to. I don't remember the title of the article I read about how public health in the U.S. is a state function or I'd post it, but it describes the difficulty the federal government has in taking over something like this.

    I'm not even certain that I'd support giving all that authority to just one person. The damage that could be done could be far worse than the disease itself. I don't know if even the President can legally do everything that people are saying should be done.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

      Here's part of the problem, if you want to frame it that way: our system of government - our laws - doesn't allow for a 'czar' to have full control over this type of situation.

      Somebody earlier remarked that the CDC should have stepped in earlier. They didn't/don't have the statutory authority to. I don't remember the title of the article I read about how public health in the U.S. is a state function or I'd post it, but it describes the difficulty the federal government has in taking over something like this.

      I'm not even certain that I'd support giving all that authority to just one person. The damage that could be done could be far worse than the disease itself. I don't know if even the President can legally do everything that people are saying should be done.
      That's quite true. Apparently they fixed that problem because now the CDC is expected to respond in person with an emergency team within 24 hours, so they can make up new laws on the fly as needed, but they didn't have that power before.

      Did you read what just happened on a cruise ship. Belize found out that one of the passengers was a lab tech at "that" hospital, and "possibly" processed Duncan's blood, and refused to let the ship dock. The lab tech is confined to his room now and they're working on getting the ship back to the US. Belize said no thanks. Not here.

      I think it's time for the staff there who worked on Duncan to just chill for the 21 days. They are causing too much panic, rightly or wrongly. Whether they like it or not, it has just been mandated by Texas.

      DALLAS -- No restaurants, grocery stores, movie theaters or other places where members of the public congregate. No travel by airplane, ship, long-distance bus, train or other modes of commercial transportation.

      Such are the restrictions that dozens of health care workers who treated the Ebola victim Thomas Eric Duncan are being asked to follow for the 21-day maximum incubation period of the virus.

      The documents were drawn up by the Texas state health agency and Dallas County officials after an infected nurse, Amber Joy Vinson, took two flights between Dallas and Cleveland in the days before she developed symptoms of Ebola and was diagnosed with the disease.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        This may turn out to be nothing but what a pain in the ass for those on board.

        Dallas lab worker quarantined aboard cruise ship, other passengers stranded aboard | Fox News
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          If you listen carefully you'll find a lot of news about "ebola scares" - nothing about new cases of ebola.

          I'd say carry some stomach meds with you everywhere you go - if you upchuck in public you will probably end up isolated for 3 weeks "in an abundance of caution".

          At this rate, 25% of the country will be "watched" or quarantined by the end of the month.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            If you listen carefully you'll find a lot of news about "ebola scares" - nothing about new cases of ebola.

            I'd say carry some stomach meds with you everywhere you go - if you upchuck in public you will probably end up isolated for 3 weeks "in an abundance of caution".
            Yeah, if you had contact with an ebola patient. I'm pretty certain people are upchucking all over America with reckless abandon without quarantine. Are you now recommending "an abundance of stupidity?" Because we already have that.

            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            At this rate, 25% of the country will be "watched" or quarantined by the end of the month.
            Only if 25% of the country has contact with an ebola victim by the end of the month.
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Couldn't you just rig up a dialysis machine with a UV light so it nukes the virus in the blood as it passes through?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      Couldn't you just rig up a dialysis machine with a UV light so it nukes the virus in the blood as it passes through?
      What good would THAT do? Can you remove all visible oil from a car using a pump? NOPE! Can you remove all visible water using a pump? NOPE! They tried your technique(with exogenous blood) to get rid of AIDS! DID it work? NOPE! People try to clean all sorts of things up in similar ways. Does it work? NOPE!

      OK, I have been talking about moving the HORRENDOUSLY LARGE MOUNTAINS(like EVEREST) with these techniques, and how they have all FAILED! So HOW do we remove a tiny speck of dust you can't even see?

      SO, in answer to your question..... Even if we COULD kill the virus with UV light, it would be impossible to kill it in any tube, such as a blood vessel. And don't forget, blood is FAR from the only liquid in the human body and if we removed it all for even an instant, a person would die. If we left even a DROP inside of a person, the virus could survive there.

      ANOTHER thing! A virus is not a TRUE life form. They are called a virus because they hook onto a host to replicate. The virus "lives" INSIDE that cell. THAT is why computer viruses are called viruses. THEY hook onto a host(PROGRAM/FILE) to replicate. I am unsure which cell ebola uses. Let's say it was red blood cells. OK, you have to remove EVERY blood cell from the person, and give them NEW blood. UV wouldn't work because such levels would destroy the blood. If you miss even ONE cell, IT will spawn MANY new ebola viri. BTW I just read an artcle: WHO | Ebola virus disease MEN can have it in their SEMEN for up to 7 weeks AFTER they are cured!!!!!!! SO, you have to remove the semen, and any constituent part(like the female analogue) AS WELL! And WHAT ELSE? Well, in theory, from what I read, you would have to freeze dry the person, to START! Of course, nobody has figured out how to remain alive through that ordeal. I say TO START, because freeze drying only removes water. You want to get rid of the virus as well, that likely WILL survive the freezing. People have been working on that sort of thing for CENTURIES!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        you would have to freeze dry the person
        Can we make a list of people to test this on?? Sounds like winner.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          you would have to freeze dry the person
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Can we make a list of people to test this on?? Sounds like winner.
          lol ... beat me to it. I think we're on to something here. I wonder if Friedan knows about this.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Can we make a list of people to test this on?? Sounds like winner.
          And I thought we were friendly. hmmmmph

          <><>

          EEEV

          It jumped to humans:

          Another person in N.H. dies as a result of EEE - UPI.com
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            In another thread we were watching wolves and talking about the value of each link in the food chain....

            I still think we could do without mosquitoes.
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              In another thread we were watching wolves and talking about the value of each link in the food chain....

              I still think we could do without mosquitoes.
              Mosquitoes are creations of the Illuminati for population control.
              To me, that's the only explanation that makes sense for why they exist.
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                Mosquitoes are creations of the Illuminati for population control.
                If that's true they need to get with it and pick up the pace.

                F.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  If that's true they need to get with it and pick up the pace.

                  F.
                  Ebola might be the ticket to do that.

                  Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  If that's true they need to get with it and pick up the pace.

                  F.

                  Don't sign your posts "F". We know who you really are. You're Big Frank!

                  And that's how I exposed your real identity to the world.

                  C.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Don't sign your posts "F". We know who you really are. You're Big Frank!

                    And that's how I exposed your real identity to the world.

                    C.
                    I know what the "C" stands for and it's not "Claude"...
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Don't sign your posts "F". We know who you really are. You're Big Frank!

                    And that's how I exposed your real identity to the world.

                    C.
                    That may be true, but no one actually knows the real identity of Big Frank, :-)

                    Cheers. - Big Frank (on WF).
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      Enterovirus has been blamed for either 5 or 6 deaths recently. We've lost one person here to ebola.


                      Places where people are suspected of Ebola right now:
                      That would be....anywhere anyone has a slight fever or vomits?

                      My neighbor's 25 yr old daughter is a bit of a hypochondriac. Peg (her mother) told me this morning her daughter is worried she was exposed to ebola....because she was in San Antonio for a weekend last month. No matter how bad a crisis - there's always a chuckle to be found.
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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        Enterovirus has been blamed for either 5 or 6 deaths recently. We've lost one person here to ebola.




                        That would be....anywhere anyone has a slight fever or vomits?

                        My neighbor's 25 yr old daughter is a bit of a hypochondriac. Peg (her mother) told me this morning her daughter is worried she was exposed to ebola....because she was in San Antonio for a weekend last month. No matter how bad a crisis - there's always a chuckle to be found.
                        I heard a report today that the CDC is talking about a HUGE epidemic on the horizon, in the US!!!!! BTW A lot of people FAIL to say that ebola starts out like many other illnesses. So it is REASONABLE to early consider the flu or even the common cold to be ebola, because it COULD be! That person that was in dallas with ebola apparently was contagious, according to the stated beliefs that all doctors believe, a WEEK earlier than originally reported. ALSO, she went to see and be with her "friends" and LIKELY VERY CLOSE CONTACT to prepare for a wedding. It is possible that that FIRST contact coud lead to over a hundred IMMEDIATE contacts! What if they all have an average of 10 other contacts? That is 1000+ people RIGHT THERE! And that is only the SECOND level! Supposed one of the contacts in a caterer, photographer, DJ, etc? It could spread to that many more on the second or third tier, for that ONE person.

                        Steve
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                          I heard a report today that the CDC is talking about a HUGE epidemic on the horizon, in the US!!!!!
                          Steve
                          That's like totally true dude and I'm so glad you shared that news with us ... that no one else on the planet has been privy to. Please keep us informed on the ebola epidemic sweeping the country.
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                          • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                            Ebola: Is bushmeat behind the outbreak?
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                              Bush meat is at the heart of at least several outbreaks. That's not news. What's news to me is this:

                              Smuggled Bushmeat Is Ebola's Back Door to America

                              "I've seen bushmeat being brought into the U.S. in basically big suitcases of smoked meat or coolers brought on planes," says Blom.

                              Back in the Bronx, Appiah confirms that plenty of the stuff gets past the gatekeepers. "Immigration in America is trying to control it...but always they find a way of bringing [bushmeat] in here," he told Newsweek in his thick accent, adding, "It's all around."
                              Bushmeat From Africa Sold on Open Market in U.S. - ABC News

                              United States and Canada | Bushmeat Crisis Task Force
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                To be honest, though I knew they were vectors, I never thought about them as food. Thinking of them as food, I am NOT surprised about them being available in the US. They sell a LOT of things in the US that are ILLEGAL! HECK, YEARS ago I said here about how a guy imported live Chinese snake fish for his supposedly dying wife. In china, they are taken as food to supposedly cure certain diseases. That was ILLEGAL, but he got them. After his wife recovered, and they got too large, he put them in a pond.

                                Did you know that in some states it is ILLEGAL to even buy live tilapia and in some states where it is legal, it is illegal to put them in an outside pond? INTERESTING! Logically, tilapia would just stay there and possibly die there.

                                Well, snakehead fish are like tilapia on STEROIDS! LITERALLY! They are bigger, meaner, more voracious, and CAN walk on land! So those snake head fish had families, migrated, and even ended up in the Potomac. It was a full on ecological DISASTER! And ALL because ONE guy imported an ILLEGAL fish. And YEAH, he bought a mating pair. I guess he wanted to eventually have a supply.

                                Anyway, don't think that making something illegal gets rid of it.

                                Steve
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                              with the FDA refusing to allow that new testing device that can tell in 10 minutes instead of 48 hours, and flights all over
                              Can you source that - I've seen nothing about that anywhere.

                              Quick, cheap Ebola tests could be key to halting virus

                              Never mind, Sal, I found it - naturalnews, of course. Always good for a shocking (though not necessarily quite true) headline. Ebola has given this quack site new life.

                              The FDA cracks down on Ebola quacks, and Mike Adams loses it – Respectful Insolence

                              Molecular Diagnostics | PCR Test | Film Array
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                Can you source that - I've seen nothing about that anywhere.

                                Quick, cheap Ebola tests could be key to halting virus

                                Never mind, Sal, I found it - naturalnews, of course. Always good for a shocking (though not necessarily quite true) headline. Ebola has given this quack site new life.

                                The FDA cracks down on Ebola quacks, and Mike Adams loses it - Respectful Insolence

                                Molecular Diagnostics | PCR Test | Film Array
                                Early on in this thread someone was talking about a new way to do blood tests that you can have done with only a drop of blood at any pharmacy. For a minute, I thought ... cool. Then I did some more research. Only certain labs can handle ebola blood tests and the protocols are strict. This might be useful for something, but certainly not ebola and some other very infectious diseases.
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                                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                  Early on in this thread someone was talking about a new way to do blood tests that you can have done with only a drop of blood at any pharmacy. For a minute, I thought ... cool. Then I did some more research. Only certain labs can handle ebola blood tests and the protocols are strict. This might be useful for something, but certainly not ebola and some other very infectious diseases.
                                  Well, if it is only a drop of blood, there should be NO problem. This kind of thing is done ALL THE TIME! The deal with protocols SHOULD be followed ALL THE TIME! Regarding ebola, you don't KNOW they have it until they test positive for it, or have a unique symptom. But not testing them because they MAY have it is just DUMB! I mean if they DON'T have it, NO PROBLEM! If they have it, and leave, because you didn't find out, it could be the start of an epidemic. But they used to test my blood once every few weeks, and diabetics may test their blood several times a day.

                                  EVERY drop of blood is likely contaminated. Your chances of catching something could be near 100%, though you may fight it off, or have had it before. You could catch a cold, or a major disease from it. THAT is why they have those sharps containers everywhere in hospitals, and the used clothes bins, and biohazard containers, etc....

                                  Steve
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                                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                    Well, if it is only a drop of blood, there should be NO problem.

                                    Steve
                                    Thanks again for your clarification on how to handle ebola contaminated blood.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                      Thanks again for your clarification on how to handle ebola contaminated blood.
                                      Taken out of context. FIGURES!

                                      Steve
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                Never mind, Sal, I found it - naturalnews, of course.
                                Just counted the mentions of ebola from their front page - 32 keyword stuffing mentions of ebola on the front page, plus click on an article and you're all of a sudden besieged with 31 advertisements. Does any real news source look like the Vegas strip?

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                                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                  We mentioned earlier the reasons given for not imposing a no-fly policy from the affected countries.

                                  Just heard it again - a D.C. spokesman on CNN explaininng we have no right to "exercise our colonialism" and thus damage the economies of these "developing nations".

                                  Translation: We have no right to protect our citizens from diseases in third world countries.

                                  I'd suggest someone give him a ticket to Liberia for a visit.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    We mentioned earlier the reasons given for not imposing a no-fly policy from the affected countries.

                                    Just heard it again - a D.C. spokesman on CNN explaininng we have no right to "exercise our colonialism" and thus damage the economies of these "developing nations".

                                    Translation: We have no right to protect our citizens from diseases in third world countries.

                                    I'd suggest someone give him a ticket to Liberia for a visit.
                                    I agree. All the reasons for not banning air traffic from those countries are just so much BS. Those countries are getting a lot of aid. How much they're actually putting to good use is debatable. The world can only do so much. Those countries are the ones that will have to get their butts in gear and utilize the aid that is sent and get control of this epidemic. If they don't they die, or at least a lot of them do.

                                    I was looking over some ebola conspiracy theory sites and it's pretty incredible the amount of distrust and hatred they have of the doctors, health workers, and the US (except when they're lining up for Visas). The ignorance is so profound, that it seems it would be nearly impossible to get them to act cautiously in their own behalf.

                                    But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't act cautiously on own behalf. Tell me how not allowing people like Duncan to travel to the US is going to tank an economy where most of the people live in shacks if they're lucky and are dying of a horrendous disease in alarming numbers.

                                    Quarantines work.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                      Hey! I thought we were all going to die..again.

                                      This weekend there was actually other news on TV, and ebola wasn't even the main story. If we are going to make this panic count, we have to get back into the swing of things.

                                      We went to a movie today, I coughed...and nobody panicked.

                                      I'm just saying that we can't let these last couple of weeks go to waste.

                                      This makes me wish for the good old days of SARS and Mad Cow.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                        Banned
                                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                        This weekend there was actually other news on TV, and ebola wasn't even the main story. If we are going to make this panic count, we have to get back into the swing of things.
                                        Funny ... when we have a discussion, and that's all this is, about a new disease in the US ... like for the first time ever ...and handled so poorly and all that, it's a panic.

                                        Just to keep things in perspective, there are more threads about Claude and Riffle than there are about Ebola. Should be panic?
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                          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            That's like totally true dude and I'm so glad you shared that news with us ... that no one else on the planet has been privy to. Please keep us informed on the ebola epidemic sweeping the country.
                            GIVE ME A BREAK! Did I say I was hearing any top secret reports, or that I was the ONLY one, etc? NOPE! And there HAVE been outbreaks that started with people saying that they wouldn't happen.

                            NO, I heard a report. It was about an internal memo that was leaked from the CDC. It ADMITTED to the mistakes, and made some high estimates of what the result could be. HEY! They said they had it CONTAINED! They said we would not have ONE problem. We have had SEVERAL! I wouldn't be so quick to say effectively the same rhetoric when it has already been PROVEN to be false! NOW, as to that report? Maybe it is true, maybe it isn't. It isn't like I heard it from some close friend in the office.

                            HELL, I was in a german language class, and a woman made a strange statement about when the Iraq war would start, etc.... I don't think ANYONE believed her. But it is past news. It started on the day she said, and about the time she said, so I guess she was right. Did she claim to be psychic or something? NOPE! She had a son that was in the military, and he TOLD her. But I bet YOU would be among those ridiculing her even AFTER the event. YEAH, LUCKY GUESS!!!!!!

                            Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        Enterovirus has been blamed for either 5 or 6 deaths recently. We've lost one person here to ebola.




                        That would be....anywhere anyone has a slight fever or vomits?

                        My neighbor's 25 yr old daughter is a bit of a hypochondriac. Peg (her mother) told me this morning her daughter is worried she was exposed to ebola....because she was in San Antonio for a weekend last month. No matter how bad a crisis - there's always a chuckle to be found.
                        Entrovirus was 6 confirmed deaths a week ago. I haven't found anything saying whether the kids that are becoming paralyzed are getting over the paralysis or if it seems to be permanent, though.

                        Of course, we most likely will get an epidemic here. Who would you put in charge of it? Maybe our Surgeon General? Gee, that might make sense. He might run for president, though - and of course, the party in power now doesn't want to see him on the opposing ticket. So who do we get instead? Ron Klein.

                        Ron Klein has not one drop of medical or scientific background. He's purely political. He used to lobby for Fannie Mae, U.S. Airways, Time Warner, CIGNA, and Imclone. He was general counsel for Al Gore's election recount committee, and he also wrote debates for both Obama and Clinton. So all in all he's a real good political choice for the party in power - but for the head of action on a medical issue, he's a disaster waiting to happen.

                        Not a problem. If it gets too bad, everyone in congress and upper agency offices have the money to leave for wherever whenever the going gets rough.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                          Of course, we most likely will get an epidemic here. Who would you put in charge of it? Maybe our Surgeon General? Gee, that might make sense. He might run for president, though - and of course, the party in power now doesn't want to see him on the opposing ticket. So who do we get instead? Ron Klein.

                          Ron Klein has not one drop of medical or scientific background. He's purely political. He used to lobby for Fannie Mae, U.S. Airways, Time Warner, CIGNA, and Imclone. He was general counsel for Al Gore's election recount committee, and he also wrote debates for both Obama and Clinton. So all in all he's a real good political choice for the party in power - but for the head of action on a medical issue, he's a disaster waiting to happen.

                          Not a problem. If it gets too bad, everyone in congress and upper agency offices have the money to leave for wherever whenever the going gets rough.
                          Ron Klein isn't in charge of epidemics. He has one function only. Management of the Ebola crisis. We already have had a medical person in charge of that .... I use the term "in charge of" lightly. He's completely botched what should have been a much more intelligent response considering we aren't a third world country.

                          So, they put someone who is capable or organizing and implementing the response, crisis management, since Friedan couldn't organize a high school prom. There's plenty of medical people on that team, so obviously, someone who can get things done in a crisis is what they wanted and that's what they chose.

                          If Friedan had been capable of managing the response himself, the President would have continued to resist the calls for a czar, as he did at first.
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                          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            Ron Klein isn't in charge of epidemics. He has one function only. Management of the Ebola crisis. We already have had a medical person in charge of that .... I use the term "in charge of" lightly. He's completely botched what should have been a much more intelligent response considering we aren't a third world country.

                            So, they put someone who is capable or organizing and implementing the response, crisis management, since Friedan couldn't organize a high school prom. There's plenty of medical people on that team, so obviously, someone who can get things done in a crisis is what they wanted and that's what they chose.

                            If Friedan had been capable of managing the response himself, the President would have continued to resist the calls for a czar, as he did at first.
                            Yes, I realize it's just about the ebola issue. I'm sorry. I don't agree with putting this guy in charge. I think Carson should be in charge of this one. This guy is just a political crony move. He's going to control "opinion" but I don't think he's set for what he's dealing with. I just don't think he's the right guy. Carson can organize just fine and is not subject to needing medical advice at the level Klein is. Carson is our surgeon general, after all. I think the only reason he didn't get the position is because of his possible bid for the presidency. I'm tired of playing politics with our health.
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                              Yes, I realize it's just about the ebola issue. I'm sorry. I don't agree with putting this guy in charge. I think Carson should be in charge of this one. This guy is just a political crony move. He's going to control "opinion" but I don't think he's set for what he's dealing with. I just don't think he's the right guy. Carson can organize just fine and is not subject to needing medical advice at the level Klein is. Carson is our surgeon general, after all. I think the only reason he didn't get the position is because of his possible bid for the presidency. I'm tired of playing politics with our health.
                              Well Carson doesn't seem to want the job, so ... there's that.

                              Ben Carson: I Wouldn’t Serve as Surgeon General if Obama Asked | Mediaite

                              In case you were wondering, Dr. Ben Carson won't be President Obama's Surgeon General. And even if asked, he would absolutely, 100 percent refuse. I know, I know, the chances of any of that actually happening are zilch to zip, but Carson just wanted to make it clear on Hugh Hewitt's show today that even if Obama asked him to step in to deal with this current Ebola crisis, he would refuse.
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                Well Carson doesn't seem to want the job, so ... there's that.

                                Ben Carson: I Wouldn't Serve as Surgeon General if Obama Asked | Mediaite
                                That is understandable! From a political/reputation standpoint it is STUPID, and effectively a DEATH SENTENCE for one like Ben Carson! And WHY would a reputable doctor want a job where he or she is thrown into this, WILL be blamed for it, and they may only be there for another 2 years or so? ALSO, ben has gone on record as saying he has no respect for YKW!

                                Steve
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                                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                  I didn't know that Carson declined.
                                  And that is how misinformation spreads. Ben Carson was NOT asked - he did not "decline". He was asked IF he would do it IF asked - and he said "no he wouldn't.

                                  You didn't know it - because it didn't happen

                                  I think you're wrong on Friedan - he is a respected doctor - he's not a hack. His problem is he has a position that is associated with politics and he has not done well at separating his obligations as head of the CDC with his obligations to the people who gave him the job.

                                  He did not personally tell the nurse she could fly - the temperature restrictions at the time permitted a flight. The airline has gone way over the line in "being safe" but felt it necessary to reassure the public.

                                  The big problem with what has happened in recent weeks is we are shocked our expectations have not been met.

                                  We thought we were totally safe - we trust we are being protected by our agencies and our hospitals and govt. We have an arrogance that WE can control things and I think some people think WE should have been able to prevent Duncan's death from a disease that is a killer.

                                  Finding out we aren't perfectly protected seems to have shattered many people - there is blame and outrage and the fear is way off the charts.

                                  Duncan's family will be out of quarantine this weekend - nothing has happened to them. Not one of them has shown symptoms. No one else at the hospital has become ill - including the people who treated and released Duncan (without protective equipment) on his first hospital visit.

                                  That tells me the most infectious part of the disease is most dangerous when the patient is in the final stages of ebola. There have been no other medical care personnel infected during treatment of ebola patients brought back to the US from Africa.

                                  A lot is being conjectured that may have no sense to it. It's said the used protective clothing and bedding from Duncan were "piled in one room". Wouldn't' that make sense - put the clothing in bags and keep it in one closed room rather than remove it through the hospital before there were clear guidelines on how to dispose of it?

                                  With no new cases, the media is reaching now for headlines so we need to be common sensical even more than usual.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                    Further proof
                                    Not really - "screened" means the person had similar symptoms - but the person did not test positive for ebola. They were negative for ebola.

                                    Do you truly believe the CDC and that hospital would NOT take such a patient seriously at this point? They ruled out ebola - so what would you do with this person who wanted to leave? Force them to stay?

                                    Someone who flew a subsequent flight on the same plane the nurse was on earlier - might consider themselves "exposed". This story is what I meant by media "reaching for headlines".
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                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      Not really - "screened" means the person had similar symptoms - but the person did not test positive for ebola. They were negative for ebola.

                                      Do you truly believe the CDC and that hospital would NOT take such a patient seriously at this point? They ruled out ebola - so what would you do with this person who wanted to leave? Force them to stay?

                                      Someone who flew a subsequent flight on the same plane the nurse was on earlier - might consider themselves "exposed". This story is what I meant by media "reaching for headlines".
                                      The results of the test are not back yet, so no one knows anything except that she had ebola-like symptoms and that she had contact with someone who had ebola, according to her.

                                      ... also triggered positive on a verbal screening questionnaire.

                                      Although a positive blood test has not been confirmed, sources say it's not unusual to have a patient screen positive considering the wider net for Ebola now over Dallas. A positive screening means the patient met some of the criteria to cause concern.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      Not really - "screened" means the person had similar symptoms - but the person did not test positive for ebola. They were negative for ebola.

                                      Do you truly believe the CDC and that hospital would NOT take such a patient seriously at this point? They ruled out ebola - so what would you do with this person who wanted to leave? Force them to stay?

                                      Someone who flew a subsequent flight on the same plane the nurse was on earlier - might consider themselves "exposed". This story is what I meant by media "reaching for headlines".
                                      You can have false negatives! If I had a person that came to a hospital I ran, that showed any symptoms, I would keep them in an open room and wait for the symptoms to revert, or be contrary to ebola before letting them go. If there were a question, there is a reason, and a person with advanced symptoms and/or a fever shouldn't be out ANYWAY.

                                      ANOTHER thing. The EARLY symptoms of the common cold could become DEADLY!!!!!!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY! Suppose a person that is otherwise healthy gets the ebola virus on their hands, and doesn't do anything. They may clean their hands eventually and BAM, they are safe! THEY SURVIVED! OK, take the SAME person, but they have the common cold. They end up rubbing their nose or eyes, because of the cold, and they think they have the cold. They DID have the cold. But they DIE because they ALSO caught ebola!

                                      So maybe it is best to take them ALL more seriously.

                                      Steve
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                                      • Profile picture of the author cbpayne
                                        substitute "facebook" for "all social media and forums"
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                          But it is so much more important to be politically correct than it is to actually protect your citizens.
                                          We just got an exec order that will allow them to detain anyone with a respiratory illness.
                                          So - we can't stop issuing visas to those ebola countries for their people to come here - we refuse to stop flights into the US from that area of a the world - we can't force them into quarantine before they leave their country or after arriving here.

                                          But - we can limit the mobility of our own citizens and take away their rights? So you have allergies and sneeze a few times - and you are "detained"? Your 8 yr old has the sniffles so you are detained? Do you know how quickly this kind of 'regulation' could get out of hand? Do you see people nodding and saying "good idea" at the thought of limiting the rights of other people?

                                          Is that how we put American citizens of Japanese descent into camps way back when? Because we wanted to be "safe rather than sorry" and we "didn't want to take a chance"....so we took away people's rights and rationalized it?

                                          It's not good enough to talk about how free we are or how strongly we will protect our freedoms - if we give up that freedom the moment we are afraid. Even worse when we think it's ok to take away the freedom of others to calm our fear.

                                          It's one thing to quarantine those who have been exposed to the virus - that makes sense. Quite another to limit the freedom of others or to start looking for symptoms without exposure.

                                          I do agree about the kids that came over the border - the same leaders putting restrictions in place for our citizens distributed those thousands of children through the cities and schools in this country....hello, enterovirus. We're told that's probably not where that virus came from...probably?
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                                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                            Banned
                                            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                            So - we can't stop issuing visas to those ebola countries for their people to come here - we refuse to stop flights into the US from that area of a the world - we can't force them into quarantine before they leave their country or after arriving here.

                                            But - we can limit the mobility of our own citizens and take away their rights? So you have allergies and sneeze a few times - and you are "detained"? Your 8 yr old has the sniffles so you are detained? Do you know how quickly this kind of 'regulation' could get out of hand? Do you see people nodding and saying "good idea" at the thought of limiting the rights of other people?

                                            Is that how we put American citizens of Japanese descent into camps way back when? Because we wanted to be "safe rather than sorry" and we "didn't want to take a chance"....so we took away people's rights and rationalized it?

                                            It's not good enough to talk about how free we are or how strongly we will protect our freedoms - if we give up that freedom the moment we are afraid. Even worse when we think it's ok to take away the freedom of others to calm our fear.

                                            It's one thing to quarantine those who have been exposed to the virus - that makes sense. Quite another to limit the freedom of others or to start looking for symptoms without exposure.
                                            Check the source Kay. Google this: executive order detain anyone with a respiratory illness There's a long list of the typical conspiracy and natural cure bloggers blogging about this and NO ONE ELSE. Funny how something that newsworthy and controversial hasn't been picked up by the real media.

                                            Quite ironic that people who are worried about ebola coming to their town are ridiculed as panic driven ninnies and alarmists, but people are quite willing to buy these government conspiracy theories hook, line and sinker with no due diligence at all.

                                            Give me a link to that executive order please, and spare me the infowars and other conspiracy sites. (not you Kay, I know those aren't your sources)

                                            Oh never mind. This is probably what they're all babbling about.

                                            Executive Order -- Revised List of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases | The White House

                                            Section 1. Amendment to Executive Order 13295. Based upon the recommendation of the Secretary of Health and Human Services, in consultation with the Acting Surgeon General, and for the purposes set forth in section 1 of Executive Order 13295 of April 4, 2003, as amended by Executive Order 13375 of April 1, 2005, section 1 of Executive Order 13295 shall be further amended by replacing subsection (b) with the following:

                                            "(b) Severe acute respiratory syndromes, which are diseases that are associated with fever and signs and symptoms of pneumonia or other respiratory illness, are capable of being transmitted from person to person, and that either are causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic, or, upon infection, are highly likely to cause mortality or serious morbidity if not properly controlled. This subsection does not apply to influenza."
                                            So that means that people can be quarantined for contagious respiratory illnesses that are causing or have the potential to cause a pandemic OR are likely to cause death.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    And that is how misinformation spreads. Ben Carson was NOT asked - he did not "decline". He was asked IF he would do it IF asked - and he said "no he wouldn't.

                                    You didn't know it - because it didn't happen
                                    The link title clearly stated "Ben Carson: I Wouldn't Serve as Surgeon General if Obama Asked | Mediaite" Nothing ambiguous about that.

                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    I think you're wrong on Friedan - he is a respected doctor - he's not a hack. His problem is he has a position that is associated with politics and he has not done well at separating his obligations as head of the CDC with his obligations to the people who gave him the job.

                                    He did not personally tell the nurse she could fly - the temperature restrictions at the time permitted a flight. The airline has gone way over the line in "being safe" but felt it necessary to reassure the public.
                                    She called the CDC and asked if she could fly and "someone on the phone" said yes. That resulted in a nurse that actually did not feel well, who should have thought more of her family, friends, and everybody else, to travel and potentially put in harm's way, those people who had direct contact with her, like her parents, friends, perhaps shopkeepers, maybe a fiancee (I don't know where he lives). It also caused the city to panic.

                                    If he's a well respected Dr., maybe he ought to open some nice, quiet little practice somewhere. I think it would suit his capabilities. Coordinating a crisis obviously isn't his strong suit and that's what the job needs.

                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    The big problem with what has happened in recent weeks is we are shocked our expectations have not been met.

                                    We thought we were totally safe - we trust we are being protected by our agencies and our hospitals and govt. We have an arrogance that WE can control things and I think some people think WE should have been able to prevent Duncan's death from a disease that is a killer.

                                    Finding out we aren't perfectly protected seems to have shattered many people - there is blame and outrage and the fear is way off the charts.
                                    No ... we didn't expect that Duncan's life would be saved. Most of us probably didn't really care one way or other. Some of us are probably even a bit angry at him. It's the ensuing fiasco that we expected to be handled better. We didn't expect the first ebola case to be handled so sloppily by a hospital. We did expect the CDC to take control of that situation and place him where he could be treated without harming others. That didn't happen. And then the traveling nurse fiasco on top of all that mismanagement in Texas ... that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    Duncan's family will be out of quarantine this weekend - nothing has happened to them. Not one of them has shown symptoms. No one else at the hospital has become ill - including the people who treated and released Duncan (without protective equipment) on his first hospital visit.
                                    Ebola isn't a very fast disease. There's plenty of time for more infections, especially of that second nurse's contacts in Ohio. Confirmed case ebola > direct contact with friends, family and strangers. I'm glad Duncan's family is out of the woods probably, but we are still monitoring quite a few people due to the latest fiasco.

                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    That tells me the most infectious part of the disease is most dangerous when the patient is in the final stages of ebola. There have been no other medical care personnel infected during treatment of ebola patients brought back to the US from Africa.

                                    A lot is being conjectured that may have sense to it. It's said the used protective clothing and bedding from Duncan were "piled in one room". Wouldn't' that make sense - put the clothing in bags and keep it in one closed room rather than remove it through the hospital before there were clear guidelines on how to dispose of it?

                                    With no new cases, the media is reaching now for headlines so we need to be common sensical even more than usual.
                                    We now have 21 more days to wait to see what happens to nurse #2's family and friends. In addition, the staff at Texas isn't in the clear yet.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                      I agree with almost all of that....but not this:

                                      The link title clearly stated "Ben Carson: I Wouldn't Serve as Surgeon General if Obama Asked | Mediaite" Nothing ambiguous about that.
                                      Yes, he said "IF obama asked". Of course he wouldn't serve under Obama and Obama wouldn't ask a Republic conservative to do the job. Neither man is a fool.

                                      My objection was to Sal's comment that said

                                      " I didn't know that Carson declined. He must have..." which sounded as if she believed Carson was asked and declined....didn't happen.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    And that is how misinformation spreads. Ben Carson was NOT asked - he did not "decline". He was asked IF he would do it IF asked - and he said "no he wouldn't.

                                    You didn't know it - because it didn't happen

                                    I think you're wrong on Friedan - he is a respected doctor - he's not a hack. His problem is he has a position that is associated with politics and he has not done well at separating his obligations as head of the CDC with his obligations to the people who gave him the job.

                                    He did not personally tell the nurse she could fly - the temperature restrictions at the time permitted a flight. The airline has gone way over the line in "being safe" but felt it necessary to reassure the public.

                                    The big problem with what has happened in recent weeks is we are shocked our expectations have not been met.

                                    We thought we were totally safe - we trust we are being protected by our agencies and our hospitals and govt. We have an arrogance that WE can control things and I think some people think WE should have been able to prevent Duncan's death from a disease that is a killer.

                                    Finding out we aren't perfectly protected seems to have shattered many people - there is blame and outrage and the fear is way off the charts.

                                    Duncan's family will be out of quarantine this weekend - nothing has happened to them. Not one of them has shown symptoms. No one else at the hospital has become ill - including the people who treated and released Duncan (without protective equipment) on his first hospital visit.

                                    That tells me the most infectious part of the disease is most dangerous when the patient is in the final stages of ebola. There have been no other medical care personnel infected during treatment of ebola patients brought back to the US from Africa.

                                    A lot is being conjectured that may have no sense to it. It's said the used protective clothing and bedding from Duncan were "piled in one room". Wouldn't' that make sense - put the clothing in bags and keep it in one closed room rather than remove it through the hospital before there were clear guidelines on how to dispose of it?

                                    With no new cases, the media is reaching now for headlines so we need to be common sensical even more than usual.
                                    Yeah, Ben's public position is 100% the OPPOSITE of Obama's! I doubt Obama would ask. If he did, I doubt he could avoid laughing.

                                    Steve
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                              Let's get honest. The new czar has one purpose - manage the message. He can't understand the medical jargon - has no idea what protections are needed....but he can get out ahead of the panic and spin the message.

                              This is not about crisis management - it's about managing the message and the perception and deflecting blame. That's what he was hired to do.

                              What Exactly Does a Government 'Czar' Do? - NationalJournal.com
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                Let's get honest. The new czar has one purpose - manage the message. He can't understand the medical jargon - has no idea what protections are needed....but he can get out ahead of the panic and spin the message.

                                This is not about crisis management - it's about managing the message and the perception and deflecting blame. That's what he was hired to do.

                                What Exactly Does a Government 'Czar' Do? - NationalJournal.com
                                ... and probably slapping Friedan up side his head if he tells someone else on 21 days watch that it's peachy keen to hop on a plane and shut down a whole city. Managing the message wouldn't have even been necessary if Friedan hadn't done such a miserable job.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Stopping most of the traffic from Africa is EASY! It is millennia old!

    1. MANDATE repurcussions for ANY country violating these laws!(This was SUPPOSED to be the LAW for over 200 years!!!!!)
    2. MANDATE that ALL people flying to the US MUST have a PASSPORT!(This was supposed to be the LAW for over 150 years!!!!)
    3. MANDATE that NO IMMIGRANT to another country can get a VIRGIN PASSPORT(This was supposed to be the law for a LONG TIME!)
    4. MANDATE that ALL limited countries are to have a VISA! (This was supposed to be the law for a LONG TIME!)
    5. MANDATE that all countries violating any such law become a limited country.
    6. MANDATE that all airlines check the passports and visas and restrict all limited countries unless they have a proper visa.(AGAIN, SUPPOSED TO BE THE LAW!)
    7. MANDATE that any airline violating the laws becomes limited as well.

    And THERE you have it! a 7 step plan that would have, up to this point, kept ALL EBOLA out of the US!

    If an African national, that was a dutch citizen, tried to get a dutch passport to bypass the law, they would be SHOCKED to find that their passport is STILL tainted, because of rule #3, and they could NOT fly to the US because of rule #4! Of course, they would never make it to Holland because Holland would probably deny the passage, but the airline wouldn't route them to the US, because of rule #7.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    I hope this isn't another "Duncan" repeat:

    EBOLA 'SCREENED POSITIVE' PATIENT LEAVES TEXAS HOSPITAL AFTER MERE HOURS OF ISOLATION

    Friday afternoon, Baylor Health released the following statement, “Baylor Scott & White Health has not received any confirmed cases of Ebola.” It continued however, “A patient presented at Baylor University Medical Center Thursday evening reporting Ebola symptoms and indicated contact with someone with the disease.”
    However, within hours, “The patient was determined to be low risk and wanted to leave the hospital. The CDC and Texas Department of State Health Services were advised of this and did not feel it was necessary to have her detained.”
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Thanks Suzanne. I didn't know that Carson declined. He's probably not wanting a medical crisis turned into a political one either and decided he needs to decline if he's going to run for office. If anyone sabotaged him at that position, it would mean lives...and maybe a lot of them.

    Friedan is nothing but another flacid politician - doing nothing, knowing nothing, just drawing his salary and taking advantage of the "perks". Klein isn't any different -- he's just a lot more experience at the PR work.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Canada Will Send Experimental Ebola Vaccine to WHO - ABC News

    I'm hoping this vaccine turns out as promising as it looks ... It's being sent to Africa Monday.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    What I knew or didn't about Carson's position, is really a very moot point. I didn't know he said he'd decline - or that it wasn't Obama that asked the question. Big deal. I wish he had been asked and I wish he'd accepted. But....that's neither here nor there is it?

    Has anyone caught what I said in one post about the WHO saying that only 95% of ebola victims have a 21 day incubation? 3% is 42 days ...and 2% wasn't even given. Then we also know it incubates in sperm for up to around 3 months. Kewl huh? We have people being tested and released when they can't even actually test in the amount of time they are doing. The US is making diagnoses faster than anywhere else due to technology, but what their doing now, test and release right away isn't going to stop infection if it exists. But it is so much more important to be politically correct than it is to actually protect your citizens. If they had done that with that influx of illegal kids they brought in from South and middle America, we would probably never have had entrovirus here, either. But my god, lets be "fair" and "humane". Right.

    At the time I'm furiously pissed off that people have been so damned selfish about traveling while infected. We just got an exec order that will allow them to detain anyone with a respiratory illness. Now if that gets to mean - detained with "others" - a lot of people will die for having a cold or flu and that just pisses me off to no end.
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    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't think they'll use the order unless things blow up here - but with the FDA refusing to allow that new testing device that can tell in 10 minutes instead of 48 hours, and flights all over......and people only being watched for 21 days instead of the possible 42 for infection, I am worried about what they're going to do. I have asthma. What if I cough at the wrong time and end up being secluded in a place with people who are infected with that crap? I don't care if you want to quarantine me at home, fine - but do not take me anywhere that there's other people.

    Kay - they've been more worried about taking care of everyone else before citizens for a long time. Here illegally? You can get a home, food, car, education, medical care. I'm a 60 year old American woman who has paid taxes. What do you think they'd give me if I crash and need help? I don't have kids. What they would give me is a swift kick to the curb. Oh...well I'm in Central Oregon. I'd get a tent, too.

    Sick of this fascist crap. I want my country back.
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  • Profile picture of the author eham
    After Aids Ebola is the virus who is most harmful for present so urgently need to control Ebola & i am not happy heard that us discover first Ebola case because next day it could be found another country so take care about that virus.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Oh for God's sake you people and your "conspiracy site" mentality are driving me fVcking nuts.

    It's right on a Government website - and you can get more info on it if you're not sure how to read them.
    Executive Order -- Revised List of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases | The White House

    Here's the amendment from 2005:
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2005...df/05-6907.pdf

    Now here's what is posted on the CDC website:
    CDC - SARS - Executive Order 13295 - Revised List Of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases

    Notice anything funny? Section C was amended into the executive order in 2005, but the CDC has left out section C on their website, yet section C has never been revoked. THAT is what all the fuss is about. A lot of websites got it wrong........but if you think it's just "conspiracy sites" that are stupid, you have another thing coming to you. Most people have not one damned clue in a a barnyard of clues how to read these things.

    What is also mistaken is that Obama wrote this one. He did not - but he did amend it. In effect, the way it is rewritten will allow you to be picked up about any time you have a cough. What people are freaking out most about, though -- is there is no provision on how long you can be held, or what the conditions of the detainment might consist of.

    Capish?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Oh for God's sake you people and your "conspiracy site" mentality are driving me fVcking nuts.
      ...
      What is also mistaken is that Obama wrote this one. He did not - but he did amend it. In effect, the way it is rewritten will allow you to be picked up about any time you have a cough. What people are freaking out most about, though -- is there is no provision on how long you can be held, or what the conditions of the detainment might consist of.

      Capish?
      That's the biggest bunch of malarkey ... as discussed here
      http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9606779


      Section 1. Amendment to Executive Order 13295. Based upon the recommendation of the Secretary of Health and Human Services, in consultation with the Acting Surgeon General, and for the purposes set forth in section 1 of Executive Order 13295 of April 4, 2003, as amended by Executive Order 13375 of April 1, 2005, section 1 of Executive Order 13295 shall be further amended by replacing subsection (b) with the following:

      "(b) Severe acute respiratory syndromes, which are diseases that are associated with fever and signs and symptoms of pneumonia or other respiratory illness, are capable of being transmitted from person to person, and that either are causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic, or, upon infection, are highly likely to cause mortality or serious morbidity if not properly controlled. This subsection does not apply to influenza."
      So that means that people can be quarantined for contagious respiratory illnesses that are causing or have the potential to cause a pandemic OR are likely to cause death.

      But you just keep on saying that this little amendment means that people are going to be detained for coughing and sneezing and a runny nose if it suits your agenda. I can read.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        That's the biggest bunch of malarkey ... as discussed here
        http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9606779




        So that means that people can be quarantined for contagious respiratory illnesses that are causing or have the potential to cause a pandemic OR are likely to cause death.

        But you just keep on saying that this little amendment means that people are going to be detained for coughing and sneezing and a runny nose if it suits your agenda. I can read.
        Actually, HOW can you read? It is NOT there to be read! HEYSAL is right!

        WHY do they say different things? *******THEY DON'T*******! You have to understand how contracts and some legal documents are written.

        YOU *****THINK***** it says: "This law does not apply to influenza.". They often DON'T do such things BUT, if they did, it would be at a higher level, or a level limiting that condition. ALSO, a given level affects ONLY that level and ones SUBORDINATE to it! So what DOES it say? Well, even if it did NOT specify the level, it would be THAT ONE and ones subordinate, *****BUT***** THIS one is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR!

        It says "This subsection does not apply to influenza." SUBSECTION!? YEP, the level of this is SUBSECTION B! The clause HEYSAL pointed out was SUBSECTION C! So they are at the SAME level, and that makes sense! So this is saying that:

        (a) Cholera; Diphtheria; infectious Tuberculosis; Plague; Smallpox; Yellow Fever; and Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers (Lassa, Marburg, Ebola, Crimean-Congo, South American, and others not yet isolated or named).

        ****OR****

        "(b) Severe acute respiratory syndromes, which are diseases that are associated with fever and signs and symptoms of pneumonia or other respiratory illness, are capable of being transmitted from person to person, and that either are causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic, or, upon infection, are highly likely to cause mortality or serious morbidity if not properly controlled. This subsection does not apply to influenza."

        ****OR****

        ‘‘(c) Influenza caused by novel or reemergent influenza viruses that are
        causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic.’’.
        If heysal is right about no intervening order, or other strikeout, she has a point. The ACA has similar working throughout most of it, so these people KNOW how these things work. Replacing a section replaces THAT SECTION! MAYBE subsections, but certainly no other sections or parent sections.

        And WOW, WHY the odd phrasing on section c? It basically says ANY influenza that may cause a pandemic. And WHO decides if they may cause a pandemic?

        OH, and MANY people know c is a bad thing to have there. And we are not blaming Obama for putting it in, but rather not striking it out.

        I WILL say that the Obama order refers to an executive order PRECEDING the one we are talking about, but if that is legal, it is confusing and potentially disastrous! If they want to remove something, they should SAY SO!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Actually, HOW can you read? It is NOT there to be read! HEYSAL is right!

          WHY do they say different things? *******THEY DON'T*******! You have to understand how contracts and some legal documents are written.

          YOU *****THINK***** it says: "This law does not apply to influenza.". They often DON'T do such things BUT, if they did, it would be at a higher level, or a level limiting that condition. ALSO, a given level affects ONLY that level and ones SUBORDINATE to it! So what DOES it say? Well, even if it did NOT specify the level, it would be THAT ONE and ones subordinate, *****BUT***** THIS one is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR!

          It says "This subsection does not apply to influenza." SUBSECTION!? YEP, the level of this is SUBSECTION B! The clause HEYSAL pointed out was SUBSECTION C! So they are at the SAME level, and that makes sense! So this is saying that:



          If heysal is right about no intervening order, or other strikeout, she has a point. The ACA has similar working throughout most of it, so these people KNOW how these things work. Replacing a section replaces THAT SECTION! MAYBE subsections, but certainly no other sections or parent sections.

          And WOW, WHY the odd phrasing on section c? It basically says ANY influenza that may cause a pandemic. And WHO decides if they may cause a pandemic?

          OH, and MANY people know c is a bad thing to have there. And we are not blaming Obama for putting it in, but rather not striking it out.

          Steve
          Steve (b) is the one that has been rewritten that will allow the detainment of about anyone, at least for diagnosis.

          (c) hasn't been stricken - it just isn't included on the CDC page. It's still on record and is an active part of the order. Anyone with flu can be detained. All flu is communicable and able to cause pandemic. Might not be a deadly one, but that's beside the point.

          How many people does it take to get ebola here, or bring it here and expose others does it take to activate these "emergency measures"?
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Steve (b) is the one that has been rewritten that will allow the detainment of about anyone, at least for diagnosis.

            (c) hasn't been stricken - it just isn't included on the CDC page. It's still on record and is an active part of the order. Anyone with flu can be detained. All flu is communicable and able to cause pandemic. Might not be a deadly one, but that's beside the point.

            How many people does it take to get ebola here, or bring it here and expose others does it take to activate these "emergency measures"?
            I was AGREEING with you! Careful reading DOES indicate that Obamas order covers changes to the law that bush changed, so it did NOT include bushes change. I don't think that is legal, and it could be a problem in the future. But C was not stricken because, according to BHO, there was no C to strike. AGAIN, I agree with you, but am just saying how it could have been an oversight, or an attempt to cut out a step. Section C should NEVER have been there. It could have meant that nearly all that had a fever would be isolated.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              I was AGREEING with you! Careful reading DOES indicate that Obamas order covers changes to the law that bush changed, so it did NOT include bushes change. I don't think that is legal, and it could be a problem in the future. But C was not stricken because, according to BHO, there was no C to strike. AGAIN, I agree with you, but am just saying how it could have been an oversight, or an attempt to cut out a step. Section C should NEVER have been there. It could have meant that nearly all that had a fever would be isolated.

              Steve
              Well c is still there. That's why people need to read this stuff right off gov record keeping websites and get the full text of stuff. Looking at a legislative doc on the CDC website is not necessarily seeing the full legislation. This is also a lesson in looking up the history of a bill. The history reveals a lot of what is actually going on with it that isn't always apparent from the text itself.

              The IRS has done the same thing on the code that they have for the public to see, and the agents to use in IRS offices. I can't remember what the specifics are, but they literally hid the article, so when you sign papers, you think you're not allowed an opt out that you are allowed under law. You actually have to question where (a) went because the list starts with article (b). Most agents don't even know what (a) is. They make it almost a necessity to be in a courtroom to find out, too. Those dipsticks know that people are severely just not there enough to notice this crap.

              In this particular order - it would be hard to recognize that something is missing because it's article (c). Had it gone from (a) to (c), you'd know that (b) is missing. This is really, really, really, underhanded.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        That's the biggest bunch of malarkey ... as discussed here
        http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9606779




        So that means that people can be quarantined for contagious respiratory illnesses that are causing or have the potential to cause a pandemic OR are likely to cause death.

        But you just keep on saying that this little amendment means that people are going to be detained for coughing and sneezing and a runny nose if it suits your agenda. I can read.
        It means they can take you off the street if you are suspected. This might not be scary to you - but I have asthma and if I get around certain irritants I cough, wheeze, or sometimes my nose starts to plug up. I can be pulled off the street for that. Now..........where do you see what the provisions are for how I will be tended to at that point? Where is it stated 100% clearly that detention will be in isolation from anyone else's germs until I can be verified not to have a contagion?

        Quarantine doesn't bother me one bit. If things got scary up here I'd want to stay out of the way anyhow as much as possible. As long as food was delivered - I'd be all honky-dorey. Detention, however is not "quarantine", and there is not one statement about needed evidence to detain you, how long you can be detained to get a diagnosis, and what the conditions must be like where you can be held.

        While getting people with ebola off the streets might be a damned good idea, anyone this order doesn't scare shyteless has no real knowledge of history, not one iota of an idea what a false flag is, and is naive enough to feel that a gov won't hurt its own people.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          It means they can take you off the street if you are suspected. This might not be scary to you - but I have asthma
          This is what it says, and if you want to spin in into some evil fascist government plot and you actually think it means that they'll be driving around now and people will start just disappearing and no one will ever hear from them again and before you know it, they'll end up as a fresh batch of soylent green .... go ahead, Sal. I can read.

          Oh, by the way, asthma doesn't cause fever normally, nor is it contagious and it doesn't cause pandemics. But they're going to get you anyway .... muaaahahahaha

          "(b) Severe acute respiratory syndromes, which are diseases that are associated with fever and signs and symptoms of pneumonia or other respiratory illness, are capable of being transmitted from person to person, and that either are causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic, or, upon infection, are highly likely to cause mortality or serious morbidity if not properly controlled. This subsection does not apply to influenza."
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            This is what it says, and if you want to spin in into some evil fascist government plot and you actually think it means that they'll be driving around now and people will start just disappearing and no one will ever hear from them again and before you know it, they'll end up as a fresh batch of soylent green .... go ahead, Sal. I can read.

            Oh, by the way, asthma doesn't cause fever normally, nor is it contagious and it doesn't cause pandemics. But they're going to get you anyway .... muaaahahahaha

            "(b) Severe acute respiratory syndromes, which are diseases that are associated with fever and signs and symptoms of pneumonia or other respiratory illness, are capable of being transmitted from person to person, and that either are causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic, or, upon infection, are highly likely to cause mortality or serious morbidity if not properly controlled. This subsection does not apply to influenza."
            Excuse me. Exactly how do they know what you have if they don't pick you up? If you are coughing or your nose is plugged - how do they know if you are contagious unless the apprehend you for testing? Where does it say what the parameters are? It doesn't. Don't you get that? There are no parameters. A bill on the floor with the lack of parameters gets shot down right away or is shelved until amendments with the parameters are included.

            So. In what cases can they pick you up for detainment? What symptoms have to be visible?
            How long can they keep you for testing?
            How many truly sick people might you be put in contact with during a detainment? Could you end up with nothing but a pollen allergy sitting next to someone with ebola waiting for testing?
            Will you be allowed home quarantine or will they send you to a "facility" if you just have the flu or will be treated the same as if you are found to have a hemorrhagic virus - etc.
            Will you have sterile, private quarantine?
            Will you have the right to refuse any med they decide they want to give you or will you be under forced medication?

            I'm real sorry if you can't see the problem with an executive order that allows you to be picked up off the street and has no parameters on the criterion for doing so, or for your treatment if you are picked up. The only criterion this order gives at all is that they can pick you up with possible contagion as an excuse.

            And your reason for trusting them to be judicious is because why? They've done so well with the issue so far? Because our gov wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone?

            And BTW - allergies can and do cause symptoms that mimic flu...including fever, diarrhea, coughing, and runny nose.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Excuse me. Exactly how do they know what you have if they don't pick you up? If you are coughing or your nose is plugged - how do they know if you are contagious unless the apprehend you for testing? Where does it say what the parameters are? It doesn't. Don't you get that?
              Don't you get that the amendment is and was always intended for quarantines during pandemics and that is what it states ... but I'm not going to argue with you because you do love your little conspiracies, especially when you're trying to make your own government look like evil fascists ... probably because the person you wanted didn't get elected.

              It's ridiculous and I know you're smarter than this, but it's nothing but fear mongering and gross distortion of facts to attempt to prove an untruth.

              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              I went down a Yahoo black hole and ended up there.
              lol ... that's why I stay away from Yahoo news.
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              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


                lol ... that's why I stay away from Yahoo news.
                I put it on my list of things to remember - note if the author is a journalist or blogger or "contributor". LOL
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                Don't you get that the amendment is and was always intended for quarantines during pandemics and that is what it states ... but I'm not going to argue with you because you do love your little conspiracies, especially when you're trying to make your own government look like evil fascists ... probably because the person you wanted didn't get elected.

                It's ridiculous and I know you're smarter than this, but it's nothing but fear mongering and gross distortion of facts to attempt to prove an untruth.



                lol ... that's why I stay away from Yahoo news.
                Christ on a pogo stick. NO this is not a conspiracy theory. It's a freakin' executive order - it's not "amended" - it's been rewritten. "Amending" is what is done to bills in legislation. This is and executive order.

                I think my education and experience as a university Chief Justice gives me a decently solid credential for being able to read these things correctly. Maybe it's not me with the problem, huh?

                I listed all the questions that are not answered in this order. As I said - no parameters. I am well aware that it was written for emergency purposes to contain health problems. However - there are no parameters. And if you don't understand why the lack of parameters isn't a good thing - maybe instead of chewing my face and implying I'm a little nuts some way, you might want to go take a class on legislation and one on political history.

                And with all that said - we haven't seen any new ebola cases in over a week now, so that is great news for all of us.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  Christ on a pogo stick. NO this is not a conspiracy theory. It's a freakin' executive order - it's not "amended" - it's been rewritten. "Amending" is what is done to bills in legislation. This is and executive order.
                  Executive Order -- Revised List of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases | The White House
                  Section 1. Amendment to Executive Order 13295

                  Executive Order 13295 - Wikisource, the free online library

                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  I think my education and experience as a university Chief Justice gives me a decently solid credential for being able to read these things correctly. Maybe it's not me with the problem, huh?
                  Well, one would think that with that experience, one wouldn't go around bleating with the rest of the conspiracy sheep ... the same old conspiracy propaganda.

                  If you do any kind of Google research on this, every conspiracy theory, anti-government website on the net is literally screaming their guts out that Obama is out detain people for the hell of it. Sorry Sal ... you can peddle those wares all you want, but I ain't buying it.

                  It Just Doesn't Get Any More Ridiculous Than This
                  I especially like the one where he's going to send people to death camps.

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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            This is what it says, and if you want to spin in into some evil fascist government plot and you actually think it means that they'll be driving around now and people will start just disappearing and no one will ever hear from them again and before you know it, they'll end up as a fresh batch of soylent green .... go ahead, Sal. I can read.

            Oh, by the way, asthma doesn't cause fever normally, nor is it contagious and it doesn't cause pandemics. But they're going to get you anyway .... muaaahahahaha

            "(b) Severe acute respiratory syndromes, which are diseases that are associated with fever and signs and symptoms of pneumonia or other respiratory illness, are capable of being transmitted from person to person, and that either are causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic, or, upon infection, are highly likely to cause mortality or serious morbidity if not properly controlled. This subsection does not apply to influenza."
            AGAIN, *******FORGET******* about b! B has NOTHING to do with it! What you are bolding is ONLY B! SAL is talking about *****C*****!

            C is SCARY! C should not be valid ANYWHERE! It says:

            ‘‘(c) Influenza caused by novel or reemergent influenza viruses that are
            causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic.’’.

            NOVEL means not seen before. reemergent means seen again! Causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic means that a carrier or vector must be able to travel. influenza means FLU! PEOPLE can have the flu and can travel. SO, this effectively says it covers people that have the flu!

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              AGAIN, *******FORGET******* about b! B has NOTHING to do with it! What you are bolding is ONLY B! SAL is talking about *****C*****!

              C is SCARY! C should not be valid ANYWHERE! It says:
              Man, I could not have said it better myself.



              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              I went down a Yahoo black hole and ended up there.

              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              This is code for "Claude got Riffled again"...
              When Riffle talks about Black Holes, he isn't talking about me.....

              Wait......maybe he is.

              But when he says something about a Yahoo, I think he's talking about you.


              Wait, I think I still come out worse here.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              ''(c) Influenza caused by novel or reemergent influenza viruses that are causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic.''.

              Steve
              Causing, or have the potential to cause, a pandemic

              Yeah, I really hate those pesky pandemics.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                I just read this;

                "More Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from ebola"
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                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  I just read this;

                  "More Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from ebola"
                  That may be true, but the ones that died from ebola were put out of their misery much quicker.

                  Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                    The year isn't out yet.
                    Why? How many more people do you think will marry her?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Why? How many more people do you think will marry her?
                      Oops. I meant to say "And the year isn't even out yet". Can we pretend that's what happened?
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                • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  "More Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from ebola"
                  What a choice to have to make - marry KK, or catch ebola.

                  Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                    What a choice to have to make - marry KK, or catch ebola.

                    Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
                    Yes. One choice gives you a short life, full of misery, vomiting, diarrhea, and a gruesome death. The other choice is catching Ebola.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    ANOTHER thing/ Yesterday, I heard some IDIOT, that was supposedly CONSERVATIVE no less, say the job of the director of the CDC is to basically spin public messages to control panic. That is a bunch of BULL!!!!! A director is supposed to DIRECT! They are supposed to effectively manage the managers, and areas, in a larger business. The end goal is to follow their mission statement!

    The mission statement of the CDC(or Center for Disease Control) SHOULD be INSTANTLY obvious to ANYONE! After all, the name says it all. But let's see what the CDC says their mission is!

    Mission, Role and Pledge | About | CDC

    Mission

    CDC works 24/7 to protect America from health, safety and security threats, both foreign and in the U.S. Whether diseases start at home or abroad, are chronic or acute, curable or preventable, human error or deliberate attack, CDC fights disease and supports communities and citizens to do the same.

    CDC increases the health security of our nation. As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats. To accomplish our mission, CDC conducts critical science and provides health information that protects our nation against expensive and dangerous health threats, and responds when these arise.
    GEE! The idea of spinning messages is JUST NOT THERE! If you can catch ebola from shaking hands, for example, they should say so! WHY? Because it causes people to rethink the idea of shaking hands, and limits the transmission. Spinning an incorrect message is not only not in the mission statement, but actually works AGAINST it.

    ALSO, in their 5 part "pledge", point 4 is "4.Place the benefits to society above the benefits to our institution". The only likely thing I can think of there is that if they make a mistake, have to revise an earlier statement, etc.... That they will come clean and do the right thing EVEN if it irreparably hurts their organization.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Steve - you mistook what was going on in that clip if it's the one I remember. That was a political stab at the democratic party. It was the Dem party that instated the CDC and it's an election year. Anything that can be used to deseat another party right now will be. Someone just blamed ebola on republicans, too.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Steve - you mistook what was going on in that clip if it's the one I remember. That was a political stab at the democratic party. It was the Dem party that instated the CDC and it's an election year. Anything that can be used to deseat another party right now will be. Someone just blamed ebola on republicans, too.
      Republicans earlier raised funding a LOT, and the CDC squandered it on senseless things like why lesbians are more likely to gain wait than homosexual men. *******DUH********! I could give you three obvious reasons! One has to do with how straight women often act. One has to do with the physiology of males and females. One has to do with how many men act. But why bother studying it? It really isn't in their mission statement. GRIDS was obviously different. Although it looked like only a homosexual disease, it was a DISEASE that seemed to be spreading.

      ANYWAY, they had NO business researching EBOLA, and it WASN'T given top priority. There are plenty of diseases they COULD be working on! HECK, what about HPV?(Supposedly over 9% have caught this disease, IIRC.) and HIV?(Growing WORLD WIDE) HSV?(A LARGE number contracted THIS!) HRV?(Nearly EVERYONE contracted this)

      If we tried to cure every blasted disease out there, it would take several eternities. We don't have that much time. Does Ireland try to getrid of snakes, and do a lot of research on that? NOPE! Do we spend money advertising vegemite, etc? NOPE! Sorry, but that is how it is.

      ANOTHER thing! A company, that I BELIEVE is CANADIAN, worked on a kind of automatic retrovirus vaccine generator, that I was of the understanding was used to cure the first 1 or 2 patients that had ebola. Why is nobody talking about THAT? It used, IIRC, tobacco plants. The tobacco plants are given a tobacco virus that has pieces from the virus that is to be attacked. The tobacco plant then generates an antibody, and a serum is made from the plant.

      Ebola Virus Cure: US Issues 'Task Order' For Ebola Drug ZMapp

      OBVIOUSLY, the CDC had NOTHING to do with this. The US governmentactually SLOWED IT DOWN in the US!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author anynewsbd
    Feel very unhappy to hear that because Ebola cause lot of death already
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Here's an interesting story about transmission and dogs, which is something I've wondered about. Basically, they know that the dog receives the virus, can shed the virus in feces and saliva, builds up antibodies, and then clears of the virus, seemingly without getting sick. What is a complete unknown is whether or not it can jump from dog to human.

    Can Dogs Transmit Ebola? Different Approaches Explained - Forbes
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      40 days since a new case of Ebola in Nigeria. Nearly all the people in the US in quarantine are now released. Africa is still a problem area.

      Just a heads up.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        40 days since a new case of Ebola in Nigeria. Nearly all the people in the US in quarantine are now released. Africa is still a problem area.

        Just a heads up.
        The Ohio people including her family and bridesmaids and friends have some ways to go before they clear them.

        Three Ohioans are in quarantine and a total of 142 are being monitored for symptoms of the disease after Dallas nurse Amber Joy Vinson visited Northeast Ohio last week to see family and plan her wedding, before falling ill upon her return to Texas.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Alas, the end is nigh:

    Tori Spelling Quarantined in Hospital With Symptoms of Ebola
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Soooo, your Enquirer subscription expired?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        With all the cases of Ebola popping up in the US lately, doctors took extra precaution and quarantined Spelling from other patients while treating her.
        LOL - in other words, she has a private room? With all two cases 'popping up', you just never know.


        amid fears she may have contracted the highly contagious Enterovirus
        So, not sure which disease she might have - but surely it's one that is newsworthy?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        Soooo, your Enquirer subscription expired?
        I went down a Yahoo black hole and ended up there.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Ebola case confirmed in NYC. This will likely lead to another lengthy protocol discussion and a bit of a PR mess. Doctors Without Borders physician Craig Spencer back from West Africa (Guinea) is the patient.



    http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/health...ase/index.html

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Whatever, Suzanne, just whatever. I showed you the actual official site where all of our legislative docs are stored. I showed the history of the action and made no attempt to push it off as Obama was the first guy to write the action. Yet you continue to flaunt websites picking it up and running with it. I'm not even going to look at any of them to see what spin they're putting on it. I don't care. I read the actual legislative history and saw the exact writing and know how to check for relevant omissions and implications in the linguistic structures. So you just go ahead and rattle on about conspiracy sites all you want. I just don't care what you think about it. I really don't. A statist is a statist. The only way they seem to understand shyte from shinola is when something is at their own doorstep. Regardless of you pointless and uneducated stance on this one, I still like you and would rather it come to you and everyone you know thinking I'm reactionist or just dead wrong on this one than to see it come to you getting the first hand education on the dangers of this action.

    I am not against an action that quarantines sick people actually. As I said, I want to know the parameters, though. All of them. If I were suspected of having something communicable and deadly, I would gladly quarantine myself. No questions asked. Being that I am not against forced quarantine and I would willingly submit, maybe you should ask yourself if you are really judging my reasoning for not liking this particular order accurately, or if you are just thinking I'm against it just because Obama scribbled a signature on a rewrite. Does it make you feel any better that I didn't like the original order either - for the same reasons?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I have to say I don't approve of calling others "uneducated" but then I have no idea what a "university chief justice" is....so....I'm out.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Regardless of you pointless and uneducated stance on this one, I still like you
      Well, I still like you too Sal, regardless of our differing opinions. That never changes. It's just conversation.

      As for the breaking news on the Doctors WO Borders patient in NY, he did self quarantine as soon as he felt sick. I hope this guy makes it too. It looks pretty good so far, with all but Duncan surviving this in the other hospitals. So far, the Texas case is the only that has spread it to someone else. Hopefully, his fiancee won't get it.

      He is on the staff at New York-Presbyterian/Columbia University Medical Center, which in a statement called him "a dedicated humanitarian .. who went to an area of medical crisis to help a desperately underserved population.''
      One thing I'm happy to see is that instead of an outright travel ban, anyone coming here from those areas will now be monitored for 21 days.

      CDC on Wednesday announced further restrictions for travelers from the three West African countries most affected by the Ebola outbreak.



      Under the new rules, CDC will monitor all travelers from Sierra Leone, Guinea, and Libeira for three weeks after they enter the United States. The individuals will be required to report their temperature and any possible Ebola symptoms to state or local health officials daily during the monitoring period. The individuals also will be required to give officials their contact information, including:

      Email addresses;
      Home addresses; and
      Phone numbers.

      They must also provide contact information for at least one relative or friend.
      Interesting article on the 9 people that have been treated in US.
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamo...e-other-eight/
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


        As for the breaking news on the Doctors WO Borders
        It's spelled Doctor Who.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          It's spelled Doctor Who.
          Right ... forgot ... Dr. Who has ebola.
          Now back to your vacuum cleaner thread Claude
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Paul Allen Commits $100 Million To Fighting Ebola
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Nina Pham, Nurse Infected With Ebola, Is Now Virus-Free
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      So is the freelance NBC journalist. That seemed fast. Maybe not to him, but to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        It's a good sign. To me, it says those who are provided with full support from medical professionals at the first symptom of ebola....do not suffer the worst of the disease.

        In Africa, it's said people try to hide symptoms because they fear being outcasts and often medical care, if given, comes late in the progress of the disease.

        The first doctor who was treated and is now donating plasma said it will take a long time to completely recover - and mentioned feeling weak and tiring easily. The nurse mentioned the same.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          It's a good sign. To me, it says those who are provided with full support from medical professionals at the first symptom of ebola....do not suffer the worst of the disease.

          In Africa, it's said people try to hide symptoms because they fear being outcasts and often medical care, if given, comes late in the progress of the disease.

          The first doctor who was treated and is now donating plasma said it will take a long time to completely recover - and mentioned feeling weak and tiring easily. The nurse mentioned the same.
          Well, the main tell tale symptom of the disease seems to be like an ultra advanced case of scurvy, and ebola will seem obvious. I don't know what the recovery from scurvy is like, but BOTH cause an advanced destruction of the integrity of a lot of soft tissue. I imagine a lot of energy has to be expended to compensate and repair that tissue, and that means pain ad lethargy.

          Derek. How would that make anyone feel safer?

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            Well, the main tell tale symptom of the disease seems to be like an ultra advanced case of scurvy, and ebola will seem obvious. I don't know what the recovery from scurvy is like, but BOTH cause an advanced destruction of the integrity of a lot of soft tissue. I imagine a lot of energy has to be expended to compensate and repair that tissue, and that means pain ad lethargy.

            Derek. How would that make anyone feel safer?

            Steve
            Once a person asked jazz great Louis Armstrong, "what is jazz?"


            ... and he replied...



            "If you have to ask, you'll never know."



            I think that answer applies here.
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          • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            Derek. How would that make anyone feel safer?

            Steve
            The patient was admitted to the White House with no precautions. This was just within 2 weeks of developing the illness. What I saw during the SARS crisis was that top officials who were geared unnecessarily could cause public alarm.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

              The patient was admitted to the White House with no precautions. This was just within 2 weeks of developing the illness. What I saw during the SARS crisis was that top officials who were geared unnecessarily could cause public alarm.
              What actually makes me feel safer (than seeing a picture of the President touching someone who has recovered) is the tightened up screening at airports and the 21 day monitoring of visitors from those areas deeply affected by ebola, along with the CDC becoming more actively involved. The fiasco at Texas taught the country a lot about how to to treat and how not to treat ebola.

              I also wonder if anyone ever eats those apples in the bowl in the President's picture. It's the second time I've seen a big bowl of apples in a Whitehouse pic. lol.
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

              The patient was admitted to the White House with no precautions. This was just within 2 weeks of developing the illness. What I saw during the SARS crisis was that top officials who were geared unnecessarily could cause public alarm.
              Also, IMHO, there's a good chance that some folks over here in the USA would try to stigmatize former Ebola patients and that type of person hugging the POTUS sends a clear message that if you had it and are recovered,...

              ... you are now as safe as anyone who's never had the disease.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  BTW I have seen medical studies saying the LIVE virus lasts at least 7 weeks(Over 1.5 months or over 1/7th of a year!) AFTER you have recovered!

                  Steve
                  lol .. yeah Steve ... in sperm. I don't think that she had any sperm to spread around. Her blood tested negative for ebola.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    She tested negative FIVE TIMES. According to the news, the President said to her "let's have a hug for the camera". His way of trying to reassure people and a good idea.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      She tested negative FIVE TIMES. According to the news, the President said to her "let's have a hug for the camera". His way of trying to reassure people and a good idea.
                      Who asked for all the tests, and how much time had elapsed between them?

                      Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    lol .. yeah Steve ... in sperm. I don't think that she had any sperm to spread around. Her blood tested negative for ebola.
                    OKAAYYYY.....

                    So you are saying that men are ESPECIALLY contagious?

                    What ever happened to equal rights and all?

                    Frankly, if it could be in sperm, it could be elsewhere, and I have heard about it in fluids only WOMEN have ALSO!

                    Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        You've heard no such thing. Stop making shit up. Give us a link to a widely accepted site that says that.
                        YES I DID! "WIDELY ACCEPTED"? By WHOSE criteria? I was pretty sure the WHO had it listed there, but they appear not to have it. I didn't make it up, am pretty sure I saw it, but don't feel like wading through the mess out there. I have better things to do.

                        Still, it is interesting you said what you did, and act so violently about this. As I said earlier, this is yet ANOTHER PC protected disease.

                        Steve
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            Violently Steve? Really? Calling you on your shit isn't violent. But I expected that "I'm too busy a man to find the real link to that priceless info" excuse. I've heard it before.
                            I don't even know if I ever used that here before. OK, is the CDC good enough? It was a limited "study" over a FEW patients, and I saw a more detailed one earlier, but they found ebola RNA in vaginal secretions as late as 33 days later, and milk as late as 15 days later. That was the SAME "study" where they found it in sperm as long as 49 days later.

                            Review of Human-to-Human Transmission of Ebola Virus | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

                            Steve
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                              I don't even know if I ever used that here before. OK, is the CDC good enough? It was a limited "study" over a FEW patients, and I saw a more detailed one earlier, but they found ebola RNA in vaginal secretions as late as 33 days later, and milk as late as 15 days later. That was the SAME "study" where they found it in sperm as long as 49 days later.

                              Review of Human-to-Human Transmission of Ebola Virus | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

                              Steve
                              Thanks for digging that up and yes, the CDC is good enough. I'd forgotten about the breast milk, but I saw the limited info on vaginal fluid up to 33 days, but was surprised to see the semen listed on the chart as detectible for up to 101 days. That's more than the information that I read.
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                Thanks for digging that up and yes, the CDC is good enough. I'd forgotten about the breast milk, but I saw the limited info on vaginal fluid up to 33 days, but was surprised to see the semen listed on the chart as detectible for up to 101 days. That's more than the information that I read.

                                It's more than I earlier read TOO, though identical to the other CDC site! But the samples were TINY! And they were not THAT thorough. 2 of 8 people in the semen study, for example, did NOT show it in the semen, for example. In one case, it was 1 of TWO! So this test means ONLY that the ebola virus COULD show up later. It says NOTHING about female, male, semen, milk, etc..., other than they have found evidence of a particular max in a particular case. I would feel more comfortable if they tested HUNDREDS, or THOUSANDS. Of course, I guess that is unlikely, since Africa may not do such tests, and there may not be enough patients that get to that point.

                                So the take away is BE CAREFUL, and the CDC and WHO know less than they claim to! BTW The WHO is the one with the 7 week claim referred to elsewhere.

                                Steve
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                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                  So the take away is BE CAREFUL, and the CDC and WHO know less than they claim to! BTW The WHO is the one with the 7 week claim referred to elsewhere.

                                  Steve
                                  You can rest assured that I do not intend to have sex with a former ebola patient any time in the near future, but since the semen thing is widely reported on in numerous places, I'm certain that condoms are part of the aftercare talk the doc has with ebola patients, as well as breastfeeding.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                Thanks for digging that up and yes, the CDC is good enough. I'd forgotten about the breast milk, but I saw the limited info on vaginal fluid up to 33 days, but was surprised to see the semen listed on the chart as detectible for up to 101 days. That's more than the information that I read.
                                Semen, breast milk, vaginal fluids?

                                These Ebola people are sure having a lot more fun than I am.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  Semen, breast milk, vaginal fluids?

                                  These Ebola people are sure having a lot more fun than I am.
                                  Ebola knows how to party.
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                                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  Semen, breast milk, vaginal fluids?

                                  These Ebola people are sure having a lot more fun than I am.
                                  One person EVEN went on record that you ONLY got ebola through INTIMATE contact. If that were true, most of the people in Africa wouldn't get it. NOW, I have covered parts the CDC has admitted have been contaminated 2 weeks or more. They HAVE listed a number contaminated for as much as ALMOST 2 weeks! THOSE ways it can be easily spread by CASUAL day to day contact, as easily as the common cold. But they don't often tell you THAT!!!!!

                                  HECK, the old avian flu scare might be limiting ebola A LOT!!!!!!!!! You see, prior to the avian flu scare, you had to PERSONALLY be prepared, or, after certain events, findand casually slipp into a restroom to clean up. NOW, there is often a perell(A popular suspended alcohol solution for sanitizing things) dispenser nearby.

                                  One of the first things the PC movement started was that any sudden desire to do things, such as clean your hands, was viewed as an insult to the last person to touch you, etc.... Ever see monk on one of the MANY episodes where he is touched by a criminal, unsavory character, or non white, and them must get a wipe? He asked for the wipe after ANYONE touched him, but THEY took offense! In one case, the black was like his lifelong idol and hero! And SORRY, but this is one of the ways I AM LIKE MONK! I always have been. I am actually HAPPY purell is out there,

                                  Steve
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                                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  Semen, breast milk, vaginal fluids?

                                  These Ebola people are sure having a lot more fun than I am.
                                  CLEARLY MOST isn't spread by that kind of contact. BESIDES, the wife of the guy that came here and died apparently didn't have it, but his nurses did!

                                  Steve
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                    There may be more to Kaci Hickox besides her right fighting about quarantine. I don't know if latest reports surfacing are true or not.

                                    Released Ebola Nurse Worked For CDC | The Daily Caller

                                    A quote from Hickox being repeated is:

                                    I just came back from one of the most difficult months of my life and I am completely asymptomatic and no one knows, no one can predict if I will develop Ebola or not in the next 21 days, and most aid workers who come back will not develop Ebola. So to quarantine everyone in case, you know, when you cannot predict who may develop Ebola or not, and to make me stay for 21 days, not be with my family, to put me through this emotional and physical stress, is completely unacceptable.
                                    It's argumentative, doesn't mention that MOST returning aid workers don't register a 101 degree temperature at the airport. There's no point in testing people if they can say "I'm just flushed from anger" and go on their way.

                                    I'm sure she's right about the medical science - she knows that stuff. She is insensitive to how people fell about it and comes across as a right fighter more than a health worker.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                      I don't know the credibility of the site linked below so not vouching for it - but the article is interesting.

                                      Especially in light of claims today that Hancox was turned down for Doctors Without Borders initially...and then applied to CDC and was hired for CDC infectious unit and then was able to work DWB in Africa. Several sites are claiming her linkedin acct was scrubbed to remove all previous comments about her ties to CDC. Could that be true? Or conjecture?

                                      The latest new is the state has backed down from ordering her into quarantine and appears to be negotiating with her to see what she is WILLING TO DO. Sort of odd but interesting.

                                      Three Ebola Stories the Mainstream Media Literally Scrubbed From the Internet -
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                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                        Banned
                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                        I don't know the credibility of the site linked below so not vouching for it - but the article is interesting.

                                        Especially in light of claims today that Hancox was turned down for Doctors Without Borders initially...and then applied to CDC and was hired for CDC infectious unit and then was able to work DWB in Africa. Several sites are claiming her linkedin acct was scrubbed to remove all previous comments about her ties to CDC. Could that be true? Or conjecture?

                                        The latest new is the state has backed down from ordering her into quarantine and appears to be negotiating with her to see what she is WILLING TO DO. Sort of odd but interesting.

                                        Three Ebola Stories the Mainstream Media Literally Scrubbed From the Internet -
                                        I don't think the state should back down. I think they go for the quarantine. For her to say that she is completely well, is like the Doctor in NY being completely well, until he wasn't completely well. Direct contact makes her high risk and there are a lot of "hers" and "hims" coming back here in the days to come.

                                        I really don't want to hear what a hero she thinks she is and doesn't deserve the additional stress. She chose to go there and Americans should have the right to protect this country and citizens, to the best of its ability, from the spread of ebola. If that inconveniences a few people like Duncan or some nurses and doctors coming from there, that's tough.

                                        Some of the articles imply well, she's a nurse ... right? She's must be pretty smart and she will self monitor and blah blah blah. Well, the nurse who got on a plane with a fever was supposed to be pretty smart too. But she got on a plane, visited a bunch of people, and got ebola. This Maine nurse is not out of the woods yet, and I trust her judgment ZILCH to act on behalf of the people here.

                                        As for the conservative blogger that looked up the way she votes and points out correctly, or incorrectly that she has ties with CDC and calls her a left wing advocate, well I just consider the source.

                                        Johnson has twice had his Twitter account suspended recently for posting personal information about U.S. ebola patients, including their addresses. This time Johnson around published a post characterizing Hickox as "an employee for the Centers for Disease Control and a registered Democrat with a history of left-wing advocacy," and accusing the Dallas Morning News of failing to disclose her CDC ties when it published her op-ed deploring New Jersey's quarantine protocols.
                                        I don't care how she votes, but I don't think that people who go to countries where ebola is rampant and then come back here after having direct contact with ebola patients get to determine the policies that this country will have in regards to a 21 day quarantine.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                          I was skeptical of that site though other sites are reporting her link to CDC. I found it more believable when I saw the STATE back down this morning....since when does that happen?

                                          It's not really safe for her out and about - she's recognizable thanks to the publicity. If she had an accident on her bike while out riding or a car wreck - would anyone be willing to help her? Sounds terrible - but strange things happen when people are frightened.

                                          Be interesting to see how it goes. Seems to me the answer is quarantine BEFORE they come back to the states. It might be an interim place such as a military base - somewhere those in quarantine could interact with each other if they choose and have a reasonable place to spend the 21 days required.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                        I don't know the credibility of the site linked below
                                        On that site are articles about the Islamic takeover of America, FEMA death camps, and constant references to anyone who doesn't believe their stories as "sheeple", so I'm going with not much credibility at all.

                                        Quite happy to be proven wrong though. In the meantime..............
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

              The patient was admitted to the White House with no precautions. This was just within 2 weeks of developing the illness. What I saw during the SARS crisis was that top officials who were geared unnecessarily could cause public alarm.
              So you are saying they PLANED the spread? I mean either the NEW it would happen, and it SPREAD, or they DIDN'T, and you can't trust their opinion.

              Frankly, I have always chosen the latter because, even if it were the former, treating it as such may get you burned,

              Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      This picture should allay some fears about people who have been infected by Ebola. It is only 2 weeks ago when she first came down with a fever.

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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        This picture should allay some fears about people who have been infected by Ebola. It is only 2 weeks ago when she first came down with a fever.
        How about we have the President try doing that with the nurse running around Maine screaming she has 'civil rights' and hasn't developed the disease just yet.

        Lot different than hugging a person who has already been cured, don't you think?
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Rare Footage Shows Discovery Of Ebola In 1976
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    10 Bizarre Ebola 'Products' People Are Actually Trying To Sell On The Internet


    http://www.salon.com/2014/10/25/23_r...erica_partner/
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Went to two of my grandchildren's birthday party yesterday. My daughter is an emergency room nurse. I asked her if the hospital has trained for ebola. She said yeah, but it's just more or less a joke. There is no special isolation floor for them, there was very little real training. The suits they issued were like the one that the second Dallas nurse wore when she got infected (exposed neck, permeable). Basically, her hospital would be as prepared as the Dallas hospital was in the event that an ebola-infected person arrived at it. It's a very large hospital system ... not some small, little known hospital.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Went to two of my grandchildren's birthday party yesterday. My daughter is an emergency room nurse. I asked her if the hospital has trained for ebola. She said yeah, but it's just more or less a joke. There is no special isolation floor for them, there was very little real training. The suits they issued were like the one that the second Dallas nurse wore when she got infected (exposed neck, permeable). Basically, her hospital would be as prepared as the Dallas hospital was in the event that an ebola-infected person arrived at it. It's a very large hospital system ... not some small, little known hospital.
      Yeah, kind of like that gasmask shown in one of the "ebola prep kits" earlier! The suits the medical community recommends for ebola don't actually have gas masks, but scuba type gear, because the ebola virus is small, and any contact with skin could end up getting where it could spread the disease.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Amber Vinson, Free Of Ebola, To Be Released From Emory University Hospital
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Nurse Kaci Hickox Defies Ebola Quarantine In Maine, Goes For Bike Ride
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      FRANKLY a house quarantine isn't really any good anyway. Suppose someone knocks on the door, or breaks in. EITHER could happen.

      But who is SHE! She went into such a battle zone WILLINGLY and now says a mere 21 day quarantine is inhumane! That is better than the astronauts got! That is better than patients get. It is better than they plan to do with soldiers.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The double talk deception is starting to unravel! A local talkshow host noticed it, and an authority called attention to it ALSO! Probably few viruses really spread via air. The common cold, for example, doesn't spread that way. OH, it CAN spread OVER the air, in droplets, but really not via it. And the same is true of ebola. HECK, the prevalence of purell should prove this! They find that it works well, and provide it because it cuts costs, and it does *****NOTHING***** to affect airborne stuff breathed into the lungs. It works by removing moisture from the hands, etc, which helps to kill pests THERE, and prevents spreading any such infection.

    They, WHO, CDC, DOCTORS, etc..., say ebola CAN be spread via water droplets, and can live for DAYS that way! The fact is that the entire digestive, AND respiratory track, have water THROUGHOUT! And coughing, sneezing, shaking hands, etc... Spread virus primarily through WATER, and not the air. Of course, you might not notice it, because it can seem almost like vapor, and is often below a level that can be perceived.

    Infection Prevention and Control Recommendations for Hospitalized Patients with Known or Suspected Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever in U.S. Hospitals | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

    CDC admits droplets from a sneeze could spread Ebola | New York Post

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    That nurse said she was okay with being quarantined at home, just not in facilities (tent) that they had put up in a parking lot for her. Then they let her go home and she takes off -- same as that other doctor did.

    Kay - I saw that about her being CDC, too - and from a look around, it's accurate. Most people will dis it though because now every "conspiracy" site on the net has picked up the story.

    What also is being ignored and is on either the WHO or CDC website (can't remember which I saw it on, but it's probably on both if you look for it --
    95% have an incubation of 21 days
    3% have an incubation of 42 days - literally twice the normal time.
    2% -- nobody's said a word about what the other 2% is all about.

    Just saying - 21 days might not make much of a difference in the long run for containment anyway if one of the 3% is out running around.

    Also - they are finally admitting that ebola can travel up to 3 feet in the air. That's via aerosol and not actually "airborne".

    Lastly - I just heard that Flint, MI just got its first case. That's the city I was raised in a suburb of, so very curious to find out if this was just crap or if it's true. Off to find out if it's true and what's what, though.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      That nurse said she was okay with being quarantined at home, just not in facilities (tent) that they had put up in a parking lot for her. Then they let her go home and she takes off -- same as that other doctor did.

      Kay - I saw that about her being CDC, too - and from a look around, it's accurate. Most people will dis it though because now every "conspiracy" site on the net has picked up the story.

      What also is being ignored and is on either the WHO or CDC website (can't remember which I saw it on, but it's probably on both if you look for it --
      95% have an incubation of 21 days
      3% have an incubation of 42 days - literally twice the normal time.
      2% -- nobody's said a word about what the other 2% is all about.

      Just saying - 21 days might not make much of a difference in the long run for containment anyway if one of the 3% is out running around.

      Also - they are finally admitting that ebola can travel up to 3 feet in the air. That's via aerosol and not actually "airborne".

      Lastly - I just heard that Flint, MI just got its first case. That's the city I was raised in a suburb of, so very curious to find out if this was just crap or if it's true. Off to find out if it's true and what's what, though.
      I was GOING to talk about the 42 days BUT, when I looked up a reference, some sites belittled it and one said a COUNTRY shut itself off in a country wide quarantine for 42 days or twice the incubation period. STILL, diseases are NOT precise! HECK, people have been known to get reinfected by some hidden vector in MANY diseases.

      As for conspiracy sites? I DOUBT sites WANT to be (fake)"conspiracy theory" sites! Wouldn't one think that if there were a REAL conspiracy, they would report it? And there have been SO many conspiracies! And they are getting MORE obvious and have FIRST PARTIES saying they will happen and saying that they WANT them to happen and even DEFENDING THEM! Yet people STILL don't want to believe!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Just checked and found that 10 people in MI are being monitored. They aren't sick but came in on flights that are iffy. They aren't under quarantine but are having to check in twice a day for monitoring. Officials aren't saying where they're located though. If I got to put a bet on a square graph of the state, I'd guess Dearborn. Hmmm - where's a bookie when you need one?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      from a look around, it's accurate
      I think it is accurate. For one thing this woman is becoming a darling of MSNBC with talkers like Maddow loudly condemning the Maine Governor (who happens to have an R after his name) and talking about her civil rights and blah blah.

      She's baiting the Governor just as she did in NJ. I heard an experienced nurse say today "she better work for the govt because no good hospital would hire her after this kind of behavior".
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I think it is accurate. For one thing this woman is becoming a darling of MSNBC with talkers like Maddow loudly condemning the Maine Governor (who happens to have an R after his name) and talking about her civil rights and blah blah.

        She's baiting the Governor just as she did in NJ. I heard an experienced nurse say today "she better work for the govt because no good hospital would hire her after this kind of behavior".
        One thing is obvious to me ... she's an asshole. What possible difference does it make if she was ever connected to the CDC or >>>> special covert code here >>> has a D after her name? Facts is, she's in the high risk category of people who have had direct contact with ebola patients, and 80% of Americans want people arriving from the countries where ebola is rampant to be isolated from the population for 21 days. If a state wants to make that mandatory, I think the states can probably find a legal way to do that. Maine should do what Texas did with Duncan's family ... and that is, make it a mandatory quarantine. Period.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          One thing is obvious to me ... she's an asshole. What possible difference does it make if she was ever connected to the CDC or >>>> special covert code here >>> has a D after her name? Facts is, she's in the high risk category of people who have had direct contact with ebola patients, and 80% of Americans want people arriving from the countries where ebola is rampant to be isolated from the population for 21 days. If a state wants to make that mandatory, I think the states can probably find a legal way to do that. Maine should do what Texas did with Duncan's family ... and that is, make it a mandatory quarantine. Period.
          It IS LEGAL! It USED to be done at ELLIS ISLAND! http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...hospital/?_r=0 It is done with animals and fruit! It *****NEEDS***** to be done. The US has gotten rid of a LOT of pests for DECADES and now they are BACK, or we got NEW ones, because there HASN'T been much care.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            I only read this page of posts. Wow..just wow.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              The hysteria is so overblown - I'm surprised at how frightened normal people are down here in a state that has had no "ebola frights".

              I am absolutely NOT for confining someone against their will in a tent or one room for 3 weeks.

              I do think it's reasonable to confine someone to THEIR HOME/PROPERTY. They could have food or pizza delivered and left at the door - they could work in a garden or sit outside in the sun - they could be with family. Of course, if they exhibit symptoms - the family goes into the same level of confinement.

              More a "hibernation" rather than a quarantine.

              Hysteria aside - it's abundantly clear that ebola does NOT spread like wildfire as some claimed a month ago. It is not easy to get the disease and the ONLY people who have tested positive are those who worked directly with ebola patients in the worst throes of the disease.

              We don't need to treat people like prisoners but we do need to require some responsibility if for no other reason than to protect the person and the public.

              21 days is sufficient - no need to keep people on 'ice' for a month or two. No need to be terrified either - and yet people are very much afraid.

              This is one of those news items where common sense - on both sides - seems to have left the building.

              But - some good news -

              http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/31/us/ben...ree/index.html
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                The hysteria is so overblown - I'm surprised at how frightened normal people are down here in a state that has had no "ebola frights".

                I am absolutely NOT for confining someone against their will in a tent or one room for 3 weeks.

                I do think it's reasonable to confine someone to THEIR HOME/PROPERTY. They could have food or pizza delivered and left at the door - they could work in a garden or sit outside in the sun - they could be with family. Of course, if they exhibit symptoms - the family goes into the same level of confinement.

                More a "hibernation" rather than a quarantine.

                Hysteria aside - it's abundantly clear that ebola does NOT spread like wildfire as some claimed a month ago. It is not easy to get the disease and the ONLY people who have tested positive are those who worked directly with ebola patients in the worst throes of the disease.

                We don't need to treat people like prisoners but we do need to require some responsibility if for no other reason than to protect the person and the public.

                21 days is sufficient - no need to keep people on 'ice' for a month or two. No need to be terrified either - and yet people are very much afraid.

                This is one of those news items where common sense - on both sides - seems to have left the building.

                But - some good news -

                Nurse Nina Pham to meet her beloved dog - CNN.com
                That's where I am with it, too, Kay. I think being confined to your own yard should be sufficient unless you show signs of illness. I should think anyone who's come in from anywhere with possible exposure should be willing to cooperate. For me, 3 weeks at home would be a vacation. Three weeks isn't that long. I can understand how sticking someone that is testing negative in a tent in a parking lot is ridiculous.

                Anyway - I'm really not going to waste any fear on a few people who have shown up with it. Until I see actual contagion going on in the US, it's not that big a deal to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I think it is accurate. For one thing this woman is becoming a darling of MSNBC with talkers like Maddow loudly condemning the Maine Governor (who happens to have an R after his name) and talking about her civil rights and blah blah.

        She's baiting the Governor just as she did in NJ. I heard an experienced nurse say today "she better work for the govt because no good hospital would hire her after this kind of behavior".
        MADDOW has an RT after her name!!!!!!!!!!!! HERE is a conspiracy for you! Not OPENLY admitted, but readily found out, DEMONSTRATED in the Ukrainian battles, etc..., It is FAR from secret even if practically NOBODY talks about it, which is a CONSPIRACY in ITSELF! RT stands for "RUSSIA TODAY", and it is a STATE RUN site which is propagandist! AGAIN, that doesn't mean they are 100% wrong, and they WILL report some nasty things that happen to be true, but don't trust all that you hear, or think they report all!

        THAT is why the Ukrainian stuff is so heavily slanted towards Russia, and why they insisted that ENGLISH SPEAKING anchors that went against that propaganda go on the front lines of the battle. It is ALSO why some of the anchors QUIT at that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

        On the RT site, looking for a reference to this, I found a LOT of references to Russia, but it seems they ditched the old name, though I earlier saw it even on THEIR site.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    I'm going to make an Ebola costume and wear it to a Halloween party, maybe start a flash mob dance to Thriller with a bunch of people dressed as Zombies.That would be awesome.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      I'm going to make an Ebola costume and wear it to a Halloween party, maybe start a flash mob dance to Thriller with a bunch of people dressed as Zombies.That would be awesome.
      WHY NOT? There IS a type of zombie that looks like it has ebola, the last stages ARE obvious, and somewhat unique.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Banned
    Look like the only viable solution now is nuking the coast of West Africa.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Look like the only viable solution now is nuking the coast of West Africa.
      Well, we STILL have to worry about the rest. If I were king, I would tell them they now have to go into a REAL isolation unit in a hospital, and stay there for up to 42 days. WHY 42? Well, an attendant might have to stay with them, and if the attendant got sick on the last day..... And if they escaped from THERE, I would put them in an isolation unit in a federal prison for a couple years. This isn't being treated like the threat it IS!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    About Dr. Snyderman:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/bu...446264000&_r=0
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Judge issues order enforcing Ebola isolation of defiant Maine nurse | Reuters

    (Reuters) - The confrontation between the state of Maine and a nurse who treated Ebola patients in Sierra Leone heated up on Friday when a judge issued a temporary order enforcing a quarantine after she defied state officials and took a bike ride.

    The order from Charles LaVerdiere, chief judge of the Maine District Court, instructs nurse Kaci Hickox to submit to "direct active monitoring," and "not to be present in public places" like shopping centers, movie theaters or workplaces except to receive necessary healthcare.

    The temporary order permits her to engage in what the judge called "non-congregate public activities" like walking or jogging in the park but instructs her to maintain a 3-foot (1 meter) distance from other people.

    The quarantine confrontation between Hickox and Maine has become the focal point of a struggle between several U.S. states opting for stringent measures to guard against Ebola and a federal government wary of discouraging potential medical volunteers to fight the Ebola outbreak in West Africa.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I'm worried about the doctor who is fighting ebola - he seems to have a worse case than the nurses had and I remember how Duncan was "serious but stable" and then went downhill fast. I hope this doc is going to be OK.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    So the Maine judge has now changed his ruling. She can now go in public places and plans on dinner and a movie tonight. Can't wait to see the reaction in the restaurant and movie theater. They probably won't have trouble finding a seat in either establishment.

    Nurse praises judge's rejection of quarantine
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      So the Maine judge has now changed his ruling. She can now go in public places and plans on dinner and a movie tonight. Can't wait to see the reaction in the restaurant and movie theater. They probably won't have trouble finding a seat in either establishment.

      Nurse praises judge's rejection of quarantine
      If I caught ebola, the first thing I would do is try to get that JUDGE and nurse to pay every penny of a decent judgment against them. I would even try to get any bias against a ruling against him overturned.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        If I caught ebola, the first thing I would do is try to get that JUDGE and nurse to pay every penny of a decent judgment against them. I would even try to get any bias against a ruling against him overturned.

        Steve
        Well, if she is telling the truth, she doesn't have symptoms and therefore would not be contagious. As for self-reporting, I wouldn't trust this nurse as far as I could throw her, but that's beside the point. If she doesn't have symptoms, she can't give anyone ebola.

        That doesn't mean that she won't spread fear throughout the community, and if she does happen to come down with symptoms, there goes the economy of the city she's been cruising around in ... stores that she visited will be shut down (just like they were in Ohio). A wedding shop there probably lost a lot of money because a nurse with symptoms paid them a visit. People in the community will be afraid.

        Whether the fears are justified or not, people are terrified of this disease and that's not going to change any time soon ... and serious economic harm can happen to cities with active ebola cases running around visiting commercial establishments or using public transportation, etc.

        I lived in Maine once. They are an odd lot of people (at least in the Bangor area). They're not likely to be swayed by "facts." I don't think it is too much to ask that healthcare workers returning from the countries affected by ebola stay away from public places for 21 days. If they have jobs at hospitals, their own hospitals tell them not to report for work for 21 days.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Well, if she is telling the truth, she doesn't have symptoms and therefore would not be contagious. As for self-reporting, I wouldn't trust this nurse as far as I could throw her, but that's beside the point. If she doesn't have symptoms, she can't give anyone ebola.
          HOW do we know she "doesn't have the symptoms"? I did research and found out something interesting, but it seemed to contradict what people had been told. I found it out about 9 years ago, because of related interests. Well, NOW I read it in a hospital pamphlet. MOST women that get heart attacks do NOT get the stereotypical symptoms of a heart attack! THAT is why so many of them die of them. So symptoms can change AND even if you know, you may not PERCEIVE them as such.

          STILL, do you REALLY become contagious because of a cough? BTW A cough IS "a symptom" of ebola. Only one, MAYBE TWO, of the symptoms are CLEARLY ebola, and do we know if ANY of these people had those symptoms? I doubt ANY of them did! The guy that started this, for example, did NOT have ******THE****** symptom when he was at the hospital. If he DID, it is possible that the CDC would have been called IMMEDIATELY, and they would have either isolated him VERY WELL and possibly called the MORGUE, since he would likely DIE!

          And the OTHER symptom? Well, with clothing and all, it is likely it could be over his entire body and NOBODY would know. The OTHER symptoms are listed as symptoms of ebola that perhaps EVERYONE on this board has had! I have had EVERY one of them! Don't worry, I haven't had most of them in YEARS! But I HAVE, at times, had EVERY one of them! There have been times I have had nearly every one all at once, with a fever, and due to an illness. Of course, I didn't have those last two, and generally not a third one, because I didn't have EBOLA. You see, the others aren't that unlikely. They are COMMON viral symptoms.

          That doesn't mean that she won't spread fear throughout the community, and if she does happen to come down with symptoms, there goes the economy of the city she's been cruising around in ... stores that she visited will be shut down (just like they were in Ohio). A wedding shop there probably lost a lot of money because a nurse with symptoms paid them a visit. People in the community will be afraid.

          Whether the fears are justified or not, people are terrified of this disease and that's not going to change any time soon ... and serious economic harm can happen to cities with active ebola cases running around visiting commercial establishments or using public transportation, etc.

          I lived in Maine once. They are an odd lot of people (at least in the Bangor area). They're not likely to be swayed by "facts." I don't think it is too much to ask that healthcare workers returning from the countries affected by ebola stay away from public places for 21 days. If they have jobs at hospitals, their own hospitals tell them not to report for work for 21 days.
          If she were sick, the virus could be on gowns she tried, etc... It is conceivable that someone else could catch it. They imply it won't survive for weeks, but made a point that it COULD survive for several DAYS, and lives longer than MOST viruses.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            MOST women that get heart attacks do NOT get the stereotypical symptoms of a heart attack!
            What does heart attacks have to do with ebola?

            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            STILL, do you REALLY become contagious because of a cough? BTW A cough IS "a symptom" of ebola.
            I just read an article yesterday that coughing and sneezing are NOT typical symptoms of ebola. Ebola is not a respiratory disease. It also said that if an ebola patient does develop a cough, it is usually far into the disease at a stage where they would already be in the hospital.

            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            And the OTHER symptom? Well, with clothing and all, it is likely it could be over his entire body and NOBODY would know. The OTHER symptoms are listed as symptoms of ebola that perhaps EVERYONE on this board has had! I have had EVERY one of them! Don't worry, I haven't had most of them in YEARS! But I HAVE, at times, had EVERY one of them! There have been times I have had nearly every one all at once, with a fever, and due to an illness. Of course, I didn't have those last two, and generally not a third one, because I didn't have EBOLA. You see, the others aren't that unlikely. They are COMMON viral symptoms.
            ... and your point is?
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              What does heart attacks have to do with ebola?



              I just read an article yesterday that coughing and sneezing are NOT typical symptoms of ebola. Ebola is not a respiratory disease. It also said that if an ebola patient does develop a cough, it is usually far into the disease at a stage where they would already be in the hospital.



              ... and your point is?
              Actually, they ARE listed as symptoms, and happen BEFORE the EBOLA unique symptoms. They kind of HAVE to anyway, as the other ones would KILL without any other thing. The loss of tissue integrityquickly degrades to DEATH!!!!!!!

              My point is that people do NOT go to the hospital or ANYONE for every little symptom. Ifthey did, the world economies would stop, hospitals would be WORTHLESS, and they would likely CLOSE! Can you imagine a REAL ebola case among THOUSANDS with the flu or common cold, or a backache, etc....? FORGET triage, even THAT could take HOURS!

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                Actually, they ARE listed as symptoms, and happen BEFORE the EBOLA unique symptoms. They kind of HAVE to anyway, as the other ones would KILL without any other thing. The loss of tissue integrityquickly degrades to DEATH!!!!!!!

                My point is that people do NOT go to the hospital or ANYONE for every little symptom. Ifthey did, the world economies would stop, hospitals would be WORTHLESS, and they would likely CLOSE! Can you imagine a REAL ebola case among THOUSANDS with the flu or common cold, or a backache, etc....? FORGET triage, even THAT could take HOURS!

                Steve
                A real ebola case among thousands of flu or common cold would stand out because ...
                they have had contact with someone who has or had ebola. The thousands of people with flu or colds most likely have not.

                Symptoms of Ebola virus disease (WHO)

                The incubation period, that is, the time interval from infection with the virus to onset of symptoms is 2 to 21 days. Humans are not infectious until they develop symptoms. First symptoms are the sudden onset of fever fatigue, muscle pain, headache and sore throat. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, symptoms of impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding (e.g. oozing from the gums, blood in the stools). Laboratory findings include low white blood cell and platelet counts and elevated liver enzymes.

                WHO | Ebola virus disease
                Symptoms
                By Mayo Clinic Staff

                Signs and symptoms typically begin abruptly within five to 10 days of infection with Ebola or Marburg virus. Early signs and symptoms include:

                Fever
                Severe headache
                Joint and muscle aches
                Chills
                Weakness

                Over time, symptoms become increasingly severe and may include:

                Nausea and vomiting
                Diarrhea (may be bloody)
                Red eyes
                Raised rash
                Chest pain and cough
                Stomach pain
                Severe weight loss
                Bleeding, usually from the eyes, and bruising (people near death may bleed from other orifices, such as ears, nose and rectum)
                Internal bleeding

                Ebola virus and Marburg virus Symptoms - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  A real ebola case among thousands of flu or common cold would stand out because ...
                  they have had contact with someone who has or had ebola. The thousands of people with flu or colds most likely have not.
                  That is tantamount to saying that you:

                  1. Know something NOBODY could, and even the US GOVERNMENT admits they don't!
                  2. Know who is infected ALREADY! If you know that, why didn't you tell the CDC, so we could have avoided all these problems?

                  The FACT is that they DON'T know who is infected, and they CERTAINLY don't know how the contagion has spread. There coud now even be people that have NEVER been to africa, or working in healthcare, that are infected. They could even be in different states or different COUNTRIES! This isn't the 1940s anymore, and certainly isn't the1800s, etc.... It is ironic though. They were more serious about this sort of thing in the 1940s, and maybe even the 1800s, even though it was FAR less likely to happen.

                  Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                    That is tantamount to saying that you:

                    1. Know something NOBODY could, and even the US GOVERNMENT admits they don't!
                    2. Know who is infected ALREADY! If you know that, why didn't you tell the CDC, so we could have avoided all these problems?

                    The FACT is that they DON'T know who is infected, and they CERTAINLY don't know how the contagion has spread. There coud now even be people that have NEVER been to africa, or working in healthcare, that are infected. They could even be in different states or different COUNTRIES! This isn't the 1940s anymore, and certainly isn't the1800s, etc.... It is ironic though. They were more serious about this sort of thing in the 1940s, and maybe even the 1800s, even though it was FAR less likely to happen.

                    Steve
                    Yeah ... I know. It's a real bitch, isn't it. All of the thousands of people just walking around now with ebola. You never know who has it. I don't even go out of my house anymore.

                    But I'll tell you who I'm real sick of by now ... Kaci Hickox. She is so enamored with her 15 minutes of fame and her ability to have a political platform on which to bounce around her self serving ideas on quarantine. She needs to just get over herself because the world is not nearly as interested in what she has to say as she thinks they are.

                    75%-80% of the people in the US still want travelers coming from those places to be quarantined, whether she likes it or not.

                    She won her case and is free to do as she pleases, but what did she really win? She still hasn't gone into town because town does not want her there. The businesses that would be affected by her presence don't want her and the people wandering around don't want her. So she didn't win much, and while she says thank you for the support to whoever supports her, I think she lost more goodwill than gained it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      She won her case and is free to do as she pleases, but what did she really win? She still hasn't gone into town because town does not want her there. The businesses that would be affected by her presence don't want her and the people wandering around don't want her. So she didn't win much, and while she says thank you for the support to whoever supports her, I think she lost more goodwill than gained it.
                      YEAH, and people may not want her to be near them in hospitals. And what if SHE asks someone to quarantine themselves!?

                      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Froth
    Members of the US military are being quarantined for 21-days when they return from duty in high risk ebola geographic locations, but healthcare workers returning from those same areas (and who most likely have had closer contact with infected people) are not quarantined. Something here does not add up.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Froth View Post

      Members of the US military are being quarantined for 21-days when they return from duty in high risk ebola geographic locations, but healthcare workers returning from those same areas (and who most likely have had closer contact with infected people) are not quarantined. Something here does not add up.
      Well unfortunately, a judge has allowed a healthcare worker to dictate a state's quarantine policies rather than allowing the state to determine what is in the best interests of the people of that state.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Sorry, m'am, you're not welcome in my restaurant.

    And by the way, I own the movie theater too.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Sorry, m'am, you're not welcome in my restaurant.

      And by the way, I own the movie theater too.
      It wouldn't surprise me if that happened. She has received threats too, so I don't think she's being very smart.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The planet’s deadliest infectious diseases, by country - Salon.com
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Do you realize that LONG after this type of period with aids they were saying the SAME thing about aids? People made/make light of the flu, so it has spread all over. NOW, they have vaccines, so for a time they said give them to the old, sick, and kids, because THEY are more likely to DIE. When they came up with the antiretroviral, I felt that what has happened would. They would just keep with the old PC laws and let it spread.

      And HEY have YOU had sex with a person infected with HIV? You may NEVER know, until you die. Healthcare workers are forbidden to even tell a spouse. And apparently they don't consider marriage to mean anything to a couple, so either person can freely go out and have sex with someone else. But DON'T WORRY! I hear you can hide it from everyone for less than $13/month!

      Talk like you are spouting here is similar to that. So far, at least with the trials, they appeared to have some good luck, so I guess they may start officially saying what they are only now strongly implying publicly, and say that ebola is no worse than the flu.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Here we go...


    Kentucky teacher resigns because she was once on the same continent as Ebola
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      St. Margaret Mary school requested she take a precautionary 21-day leave and produce a health note from her doctor, according to a statement from the Archdiocese of Louisville.
      Of course it was silly - but no more silly than quitting a job rather than take a 21 day leave to calm the fears of students and/or parents. What isn't mentioned is though the teacher has worked previously for the diocese she was NEW to that school this year.

      It's not some poor teacher losing her career - as she and her doctor husband plan a return to Kenya next year.

      It should be clear to anyone with a working brain that ebola is not "spreading" in the US. That said, it's not surprising the level of fear people have when you consider the media hype and the political posturing that has occurred.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        It should be clear to anyone with a working brain that ebola is not "spreading" in the US. That said, it's not surprising the level of fear people have when you consider the media hype and the political posturing that has occurred.
        WELL, of course a lot of such things would be hidden, and it could be weeks(thanks to the PC garbage, MONTHS) before we know about the spread, or lack thereof. It DOES seem like some WANT it to spread and are trying to pass laws and policies to make sure it DOES.

        That said, I always hate the terror hype, but the problem HERE is *****THERE SHOULD BE NOTHING TO HYPE!!!!!!*****! If they restricted flights, and implemented the rules I specified earlier, they would probably have not had ****ONE**** case of death here, and would have had fewer concerns. If something DID happen, people would be HAPPY about what was done.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Steve - The truth is there was only ONE death and he did not contract ebola in this country.

          Fear has been flamed by the media - by self serving pols and by some in medicine who didn't make the right decisions initially.

          Once that fear is rampant, you can't flick your fingers and make it disappear. I think any nurse or teacher should understand the public's concern and be willing to do what they can to allay concern.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Steve - The truth is there was only ONE death and he did not contract ebola in this country.
            HE DIED! *******EVERYONE******* admits he was CONTAGIOUS! And YEAH, he came from another country. THAT IS THE POINT! Many states don't allow tilapia. NONE allow snakeheads. There are a LOT of other things they don't allow because someone might do something stupid, and damage the environment or something. But they allow ebola!

            Fear has been flamed by the media - by self serving pols and by some in medicine who didn't make the right decisions initially.

            Once that fear is rampant, you can't flick your fingers and make it disappear. I think any nurse or teacher should understand the public's concern and be willing to do what they can to allay concern.
            "Teachers" are mere PARROTS here! And nurses? What power do THEY have? They are like a tertiary defense at best. How about we train them how to deal with contagious diseases they can DIE from, and do everything we can do to make sure the diseases never reach borders?

            BTW I don't even trust nurses to be up to 20th century levels of basic hygiene. HECK, give me a new plastic bag, and a premise as to how to use it, and I bet I can prove in SECONDS that over 20% shouldn't be even allowed as CASHIERS or STORE CLERKS, let alone nurses. And that is just a BASIC test. So I am not surprised that they aren't prepared for ebola.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              HE DIED! *******EVERYONE******* admits he was CONTAGIOUS! And YEAH, he came from another country. THAT IS THE POINT! Many states don't allow tilapia. NONE allow snakeheads. There are a LOT of other things they don't allow because someone might do something stupid, and damage the environment or something. But they allow ebola!

              Steve
              Yes, they welcome ebola with open arms. That's why they have enhanced the screening at airports and imposed a 21-day monitoring period for travelers from those areas. I can see why they don't allow fish to wander in through the airports from other countries ... but really Steve ... ebola. We want it.

              Isn't there some other forum where all your alarmist BS would fly?
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                Yes, they welcome ebola with open arms. That's why they have enhanced the screening at airports and imposed a 21-day monitoring period for travelers from those areas. I can see why they don't allow fish to wander in through the airports from other countries ... but really Steve ... ebola. We want it.

                Isn't there some other forum where all your alarmist BS would fly?
                I didn't say I do, or that YOU do, only that politicians do.

                It is called, among other things, PC policies. As for the airports? I haven't been to one for like 3 weeks, but the TSA is a literal JOKE! They have taken credit for a couple real culprits being caught when people that read deeper, or watched it THEN know that they were NOT caught by the TSA, etc... In fact, during 9/11, one person had suspicions, but disregarded them due to PC sensitivities. GRANTED that person wasn't with the TSA, but he may still be working for them. It WAS the SAME job!

                It is ALSO why they have "CLEANSED" history to avoid properly describing certain terrorists. And they talk about "OH, DON'T WORRY! He was a LONE WOLF"!!!!!!! The LAST LONE WOLF they had said that they should ALL act as he did. BTW this COUNTRY was built with LONE WOLFS! The patriot might not have been based on history, but it might as well have. There WERE families adept at hunting that had guns that shot all levels of the british coming through, and were covert. A LONE WOLF held a meeting and started the BTP, which was effectively a bunch of lone wolfs.

                So YEAH, they put a LOT of things over the safety of people. It could end up like "What's So Bad About Feeling Good?"! In THAT movie, a "disease" makes people feel great and gives them great ethics and morality! Realizing that this could destroy their careers, the people in politics don protective gear like they were going to the moon! They didn't care ANYTHING about society, or the people, but when THEIR JOBS were on the line, they acted like outright EVIL villains.

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Hey!......... Hey!

                  Where is all the panic for Ebola. Almost nothing has been on the news in the last few days.

                  I thought we were all going to die. I paid good money for the panic on this Forum, and I expect to get my money's worth.

                  So..we aren't going to die now? You mean we panicked for nothing?

                  I want a refund. And the next "We are all going to die!" event better be real, or I'm going to refuse to participate.
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                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Hey!......... Hey!

                    Where is all the panic for Ebola. Almost nothing has been on the news in the last few days.

                    I thought we were all going to die. I paid good money for the panic on this Forum, and I expect to get my money's worth.

                    So..we aren't going to die now? You mean we panicked for nothing?

                    I want a refund. And the next "We are all going to die!" event better be real, or I'm going to refuse to participate.
                    Well if it makes you feel any better, there's a few cases in the NE that aren't being televised and there's several hundred people getting off planes in NJ that are under monitor - not quarantined, but they have to check in for monitoring for xx amount of days.

                    Like I said - Ethiopia had an outbreak and they stopped it. All we have to do is follow their lead.

                    Now how about the Entrovirus that was let in via the open S. Border and has spread nationwide? Some deaths, many paralyzed and it's still running through the country. Where's the rage about that one?
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                      Well if it makes you feel any better, there's a few cases in the NE that aren't being televised and there's several hundred people getting off planes in NJ that are under monitor - not quarantined, but they have to check in for monitoring for xx amount of days.

                      Like I said - Ethiopia had an outbreak and they stopped it. All we have to do is follow their lead.

                      Now how about the Entrovirus that was let in via the open S. Border and has spread nationwide? Some deaths, many paralyzed and it's still running through the country. Where's the rage about that one?
                      Yeah, if you read Brietfart or Rush Limpballs regularly, you surely would believe that enterovirus came in via illegal immigrants, but that just isn't the case.

                      Enterovirus was first detected in the United States in 1962, according to the CDC. The specific EV-D68 strain was first detected in 1987, said Eden Wells, Clinical Associate Professor of Epidemiology at the University of Michigan School of Public Health.

                      "I think that this really sort of argues against the fact that this is a new virus introduced by anybody," Wells said.
                      In its page about unaccompanied children, the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services wrote that the CDC "believes that the children arriving at U.S. borders pose little risk of spreading infectious diseases to the general public." It adds:

                      As a precaution, ORR [HHS Office of Refugee Resettlement] is providing vaccinations to all children who do not have documentation of previous valid doses of vaccine.

                      Children receive an initial screening for visible and obvious health issues (for example, lice, rashes, diarrhea, and cough) when they first arrive at CBP facilities. Onsite medical staff are available at CBP facilities to provide support, and referrals are made to a local emergency room for additional care, if needed. Children must be considered "fit to travel" before they are moved from the border patrol station to an ORR shelter.

                      Children receive additional, more thorough medical screening and vaccinations at ORR shelter facilities. If children are found to have certain communicable diseases, they are separated from other children and treated as needed.

                      Conservative figures such as Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, and Allen West have been pushing the dubious link between undocumented children and EV-D68.

                      @ Claude. Thanks for reminding us how ridiculous you think our ebola concerns are and believe me ... we do know how you deplore ridicularity of any kind. But now that you've reopened the thread, there's good news ... the Dr. in New York is leaving the hospital ebola free and the nurse in Maine is going to leave Maine in a huff (don't let the door hit you and I hope she doesn't choose VA to land in).
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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        Yeah, if you read Brietfart or Rush Limpballs regularly, you surely would believe that enterovirus came in via illegal immigrants, but that just isn't the case.
                        What does where it was first *******NOTED******* have to do with anything? When they "first detected" or "first discovered", that really is a false statement. They have even sometimes gone back in history thousands of years, and found an unusual ailment that TODAY would only match one diagnosis. NOPE! These ailments didn't all magically appear in the past couple hundred years. They weren't first detected or first discovered. They merely adequately described a set of symptoms and put a name to it. It is like "discovering a star"! If you can described the stars path and/or appearance adequately enough that someone else can find it and recognize it, and nobody else has done that before, you can claim "discovery". BILLIONS of people may have seen it before! It was ALWAYS there! It is merely that YOU properly noted it.

                        Did anyone say it was a NEW VIRUS? It could still be a NEW OUTBREAK though. If an outbreak comes after a long period of not being there, especially if it can't live outside the body on something that can reinfect someone, then some external source is likely responsible. In such a case, the most likely source would be illegals. That is ESPECIALLY likely if they were found to have it, or their area did.

                        Polio was first noted in Austria, or Germany, and in the US would not be considered a new virus, but any outbreaks WOULD be new and would have come from elsewhere.

                        Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        @ Claude. Thanks for reminding us how ridiculous you think our ebola concerns are .

                        You're welcome. But really, Thanks aren't necessary....I'm just doing my part.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Hey!......... Hey!

                    Where is all the panic for Ebola. Almost nothing has been on the news in the last few days.

                    I thought we were all going to die. I paid good money for the panic on this Forum, and I expect to get my money's worth.

                    So..we aren't going to die now? You mean we panicked for nothing?

                    I want a refund. And the next "We are all going to die!" event better be real, or I'm going to refuse to participate.
                    I know, I don't think the panic lasted as long as it did with Legionaries Disease, Aids, Swine flu, and Bird flu when they where going to kill us all.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      I know, I don't think the panic lasted as long as it did with Legionaries Disease, Aids, Swine flu, and Bird flu when they where going to kill us all.
                      Legonares Disease was a bad one, and is STILL a concern, but apparently it has to do with contaminated A/C systems. Hopefully people think more about that. AIDS is certainly a concern, but it is a "legally" protected disease and, as such, underreported, etc.... Also, they supposedly have "treatment". NOT a cure, but "treatment". Swine flu is an old one. Bird Flu, at least the airborne one(ironically) was apparently man made.

                      Outside of aids, which STILL MAY, did ANYONE say that any of them would kill us all?

                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                        Legonares Disease was a bad one, and is STILL a concern, but apparently it has to do with contaminated A/C systems. Hopefully people think more about that. AIDS is certainly a concern, but it is a "legally" protected disease and, as such, underreported, etc.... Also, they supposedly have "treatment". NOT a cure, but "treatment". Swine flu is an old one. Bird Flu, at least the airborne one(ironically) was apparently man made.

                        Outside of aids, which STILL MAY, did ANYONE say that any of them would kill us all?

                        Steve
                        Yeah pretty much all of them when they first became discovered.
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Hey!......... Hey!

                    Where is all the panic for Ebola. Almost nothing has been on the news in the last few days.

                    I thought we were all going to die. I paid good money for the panic on this Forum, and I expect to get my money's worth.

                    So..we aren't going to die now? You mean we panicked for nothing?

                    I want a refund. And the next "We are all going to die!" event better be real, or I'm going to refuse to participate.
                    At THIS point, they would probably underreport ANYWAY. We were simply waiting on the off chance that someone got symptoms. Assuming they are reporting right, and I didn't miss anything, we might have another week. Still, I think we need to bring another infected person in to start the cycle again.

                    Actually, CONCERN is a good thing! If you have no CONCERN, more people WILL get it and DIE!

                    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

    A comment dissing repubs on election day? Swank. And the commentary is FALSE.

    Ethiopia had a outbreak (right next door to Kenya, not continents of space away) but they were able to squelch it. Kenya just had a first ebola death (arrived on a plane) and it has been fighting Marsburg, which for all intensive purposes is the same virus.

    As far as I'm concerned - since Ethiopia actually had a pretty healthy little outbreak of the stuff going and managed to stop it -- maybe we should be listening to them tell US about how they did it. Ya think?
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Had a similar conversation recently with someone who insisted that an enterovirus was being brought in by illegal immigrants. I couldn't find any credible source that didn't deny it. He couldn't find a single credible source to support it.

    Nonetheless, he remains certain that it's coming in from Mexico and parts south via illegals. Why? "They couldn't say that so often on the news if it weren't true."

    Yeah. And according to Abraham Lincoln, nobody ever lies on the Internet...


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Had a similar conversation recently with someone who insisted that an enterovirus was being brought in by illegal immigrants. I couldn't find any credible source that didn't deny it. He couldn't find a single credible source to support it.

      Nonetheless, he remains certain that it's coming in from Mexico and parts south via illegals. Why? "They couldn't say that so often on the news if it weren't true."

      Yeah. And according to Abraham Lincoln, nobody ever lies on the Internet...


      Paul
      Funny. Just let night I was talking to my Mom. Her next door neighbor's son has come down with whooping cough last 2 weeks.

      it is really , really bad. He is 58 yrs. old. It has caused him to blackout everyday for last week.

      Both he and his mom are convinced that it is from some of the illegal children immigrants.

      They are both HUGE tea party Conservatives and they go off on these diatribes

      I just do not see evidence to point that this could be attributed to these children
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Funny. Just let night I was talking to my Mom. Her next door neighbor's son has come down with whooping cough last 2 weeks.

        it is really , really bad. He is 58 yrs. old. It has caused him to blackout everyday for last week.

        Both he and his mom are convinced that it is from some of the illegal children immigrants.

        They are both HUGE tea party Conservatives and they go off on these diatribes

        I just do not see evidence to point that this could be attributed to these children
        That one usually comes from right here. Not that people don't get it elsewhere, it's just something that you see a few cases of here and again, but not full epidemics. Same with Anthrax. There's been a case or two in the US this year, and one or two elsewhere, but it never spreads. Not sure if that's the nature of it or if we're just real good at containing those kinds of illnesses.

        Oh btw - entrovirus spread all over the globe, appearing to stem from SA - and it's gone everywhere but the US. Go figure. We're the only country that is still reporting live cases of it, though and it's from coast to coast. So what are we doing different from everyone else?
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          We're the only country that is still reporting live cases of it, though and it's from coast to coast. So what are we doing different from everyone else?
          I live in one of the purple states that is allegedly "elevated" status and no one is talking about it here. Nothing to get up about.

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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Had a similar conversation recently with someone who insisted that an enterovirus was being brought in by illegal immigrants. I couldn't find any credible source that didn't deny it. He couldn't find a single credible source to support it.

      Nonetheless, he remains certain that it's coming in from Mexico and parts south via illegals. Why? "They couldn't say that so often on the news if it weren't true."

      Yeah. And according to Abraham Lincoln, nobody ever lies on the Internet...


      Paul
      I don't watch the news. (Also don't read Jones and only an occasional Brietbart). I watch the Global incidence maps.

      It's not from Mexico - it's hot in S. America - and was hot when they brought the kids in from there. Suddenly we've got it covering the country. Mexico got hit after S. America and the US. It spread real fast and if you trace back any news to some of the first hot spots in the US it was where they dumped the illegals. Not proof, but pretty good evidence to me. Better than a news source anyhow.

      Kenya and Uganda are getting hit by a new one not identified yet - they're just calling it "bleeding fever" on the maps. 5 cases between the two countries, so that's what I've got my eye on now.

      Dengue fever seems to have come in from the Far East - I don't think that one's usually deadly, though. India is covered with it right now.

      Avian flu is all over Eastern Europe and over Russian borders. Haven't seen it spreading anywhere yet - one or two in spots in Asia, but they seem to have died out instead of spreading.

      Can't figure out where all the EEE in the Eastern states came from - seems either Europe or just right here.

      The incidence maps take precedence to me over any news source. You can never tell what agenda a news source might have. But you can watch a disease spread.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Steve,
    In such a case, the most likely source would be illegals. That is ESPECIALLY likely if they were found to have it, or their area did.
    Statistically, the most likely source would be air travel, as there are a lot more people coming into the country that way than on foot over the Mexican border. That assumes, of course, that this isn't a domestic resurgence of the same virus that's been here for decades.

    A few things on the question after that. First, is there any evidence that incidence of this virus is higher among illegal immigrants than the general population? Is it higher in Mexico, or other countries to the south from which the majority of these people come?

    If so, then the concern may be justified. If not, it's just xenophobia looking for an outlet. The screams that ebola was coming in over the border pretty much fit the latter category.

    Just as an aside, higher incidence among a population doesn't necessarily mean they're the source. People in tightly packed quarters, who lack decent nutrition and hygiene facilities, are likely to suffer higher numbers of cases of contagious diseases than those in better conditions.

    Then there's the matter of populations that have no antibodies, due to having never been exposed to a disease. See: Native Americans and smallpox.


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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Steve,Statistically, the most likely source would be air travel, as there are a lot more people coming into the country that way than on foot over the Mexican border. That assumes, of course, that this isn't a domestic resurgence of the same virus that's been here for decades.

      A few things on the question after that. First, is there any evidence that incidence of this virus is higher among illegal immigrants than the general population? Is it higher in Mexico, or other countries to the south from which the majority of these people come?

      If so, then the concern may be justified. If not, it's just xenophobia looking for an outlet. The screams that ebola was coming in over the border pretty much fit the latter category.

      Just as an aside, higher incidence among a population doesn't necessarily mean they're the source. People in tightly packed quarters, who lack decent nutrition and hygiene facilities, are likely to suffer higher numbers of cases of contagious diseases than those in better conditions.

      Then there's the matter of populations that have no antibodies, due to having never been exposed to a disease. See: Native Americans and smallpox.


      Paul
      I think the only mention of ebola coming over the border has been in a case like the one from Africa. He COULD have flown into mexico, and come across the border, if we stopped flights but still just let people cross into the US. And that IS a legitimate concern, even if it hasn't happened yet. Still, to the best of MY knowledge anyway, ebola is primarily an AFRICAN concern. NOT because they are black, or because of any conspiracy, it is simply that way. We don't expect a person only exposed to people on this continent that have only traditional diseases to ever spread ebola. In Africa, they also have African sleeping sickness, malaria, elephantiasis, etc... We may have things THEY don't like, and Australia ALSO has odd animals, poisons, etc.... No place is perfect.

      You would hope most people flying in are from countries where they would have such illnesses taken care of there. ALSO, you would hope the US would be more careful if there were a local concern, and the lack of THAT is what triggered the ebola scare. You see, given the above two expectations, it would be less likely by plane. The exposure of those in the US, to ebola, could have easily been prevented.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Suzanne - it's about like any other flu. There are those that react violently to it and a few who die from it, but the percentages are very low. No more scary than any flu from my take on it. I was just basically telling what I watched go on in the incidence maps. It's actually burning out right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Ummm... If it's coming in via illegal immigrants, why is that southern border not a "hot spot?"
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Ummm... If it's coming in via illegal immigrants, why is that southern border not a "hot spot?"
      Actually, if it came in from mexico yesterday, it could EASILY be spreading through MAINE today! ALL THE WAY on the other side of the country!

      WHY? Because they are now FLYING people that cross the border, OBVIOUSLY into southern states as far from main as California, over to NORTHERN states. WHY? I have a theory that I think may explain all this garbage, BUT..... OH WELL. ICSAWLM!

      Illegal immigration affects western Massachusetts | WWLP.com

      Not quite maine there, but it is a relatively short hop to maine from there.

      So YEAH, you can forget about this being so easy to confine and track now.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Ummm... If it's coming in via illegal immigrants, why is that southern border not a "hot spot?"
      Because, although it was not advertised by media - many of those kids were flown in here. Why is Mexico not a hot spot either?

      I'm not saying I've got cause and effect here - just what I saw. It was in S America - then America and Europe, then it continued to spread from there, now it's burning out. It jumped from SA to NA and Europe at about the same time skipping anywhere in between and that was just when the kids were transported in here and then unloaded in different cities around the country. That does not mean that legal travelers weren't how it got here, though.

      The co-occurrence may have been coincidental. Seeing that a lot of those kids were sick when brought here, I doubt it was, though. I think that they were being shipped elsewhere, too. That wasn't just "illegal immigration" in the raw - it was a humanitarian effort because they were getting slaughtered down there. It was a "war" (criminal, not political) zone. Not sure if they've contained it yet or not. Still in all, they should have screened those kids better before flying them around like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Steve,

    One would suspect the folks who flew in to be a bit better off than the ones walking across the border, or coming in hidden in trucks. They wouldn't be the most likely candidates for spreading disease.

    Regardless, if it's a South American source, it wouldn't necessarily (or even likely) be confined to illegals. This isn't exactly one of those "only strikes the poor" viruses. And it wouldn't light up the security screenings like ebola symptoms.

    If Sal is right that it's primarily hit South America, rather than Central America, the illegal immigrants are unlikely to be the source anyway. The majority of illegals coming over the Mexican border are from Mexico and Central American countries.

    If Sal can show me a strong correlation between incidents and location of illegal immigrants, I'd take that seriously. That's Real Data. You're just treating all possibilities, however remote, as being of equal or similar probability.


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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      There was a border control agent who was interviewed when the biggest number of kids were coming across and being relocated throughout the country.

      He said it was risky and SAID there were two "receiving centers" where people are sent when get across the border that had been close to visitors due to diseases of the kids in those centers.

      Don't know how true it was as I didn't see any followup - but it did occur to me at the time how stupid it was to move these new people all over the country and into hundreds of different schools so quickly.

      If they did carry a deadly disease - it would have been an epidemic HERE by now.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        There was a border control agent who was interviewed when the biggest number of kids were coming across and being relocated throughout the country.

        He said it was risky and SAID there were two "receiving centers" where people are sent when get across the border that had been close to visitors due to diseases of the kids in those centers.

        Don't know how true it was as I didn't see any followup - but it did occur to me at the time how stupid it was to move these new people all over the country and into hundreds of different schools so quickly.

        If they did carry a deadly disease - it would have been an epidemic HERE by now.
        They mentioned a few diseases, TB was one of them, and nasty pests, like lice. Anyway, things like TB may take a while to appear and, once they appear sporadically, it would be harder to trace back.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Kay,

    Did he mention what diseases were involved? Assuming it was true, of course, that would be important to know. Along with how well the quarantine was administered.


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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Thom,

    Thanks.

    This one gave me a chuckle:
    Consider, for example, Guatemala. According to the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF), Guatemalan kids are more likely than Texans to be immunized for most infectious diseases.
    Wanna bet the Fox News crews would deny that?

    Fox has this interesting way of starting out with things like "gave or exposed," which people will read as "the agents got sick with." If every word in the Fox story were true, it's still not anything to be getting jumpy over. Treat the kids and get on with whatever plan there is for relocating them, whether to their home countries or somewhere here.

    The interesting thing is, Fox is famous for taking the worst possible "What if" position, and none of that one is all that big a deal.

    Nothing in either story about enteroviruses.


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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Thom,

      Thanks.

      This one gave me a chuckle:Wanna bet the Fox News crews would deny that?

      Fox has this interesting way of starting out with things like "gave or exposed," which people will read as "the agents got sick with." If every word in the Fox story were true, it's still not anything to be getting jumpy over. Treat the kids and get on with whatever plan there is for relocating them, whether to their home countries or somewhere here.

      The interesting thing is, Fox is famous for taking the worst possible "What if" position, and none of that one is all that big a deal.

      Nothing in either story about enteroviruses.


      Paul
      I thought that one was pretty funny myself.
      If every word in the Fox story were true, it's still not anything to be getting jumpy over.
      No not for us, but I bet the border agents (or whoever is dealing with them) aren't real happy over it. I had scabies before and though not life threatening the itch will get to you after a little while. I also had a dog that came down with Sarcoptic mange which I was able to cure at home and led to one of my most profitable websites that at the time was number 1 in google, bing and yahoo for it's selected keywords The thing with scabies and mange is they are both caused by mites. A preparation or soap containing sulfur will kill the little buggers right quick.
      Fox is pretty good with sensationalism as are the other 24 hour news stations (I guess, I really don't watch any of them).
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Sal,
    Because, although it was not advertised by media - many of those kids were flown in here. Why is Mexico not a hot spot either?
    That last is a really good question. One would think the kids coming in on foot, with the conditions they lived and traveled in, would be more likely to have it. And, because of the close quarters and poor sanitation, to spread it.

    Even the Fox article Thom pointed to doesn't say anything about it.


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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Sal,That last is a really good question. One would think the kids coming in on foot, with the conditions they lived and traveled in, would be more likely to have it. And, because of the close quarters and poor sanitation, to spread it.

      Even the Fox article Thom pointed to doesn't say anything about it.


      Paul
      But the kids walking over the border are mostly Mexican - not South American. The SA were flown in - the Mexicans are walking and Mexico didn't have any Entrovirus until after the US got it. Guess someone got it here and went home
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Thom,

    Yeah. Network news was the only reason I had cable after a while. It finally got so bad I dumped that and get the news online now. I've also started hiding or unfriending people on Facebook who post a lot of really angry and inflammatory political memes.

    On the flip side I've found a few people who can disagree intelligently, and those are folks I pay attention to on a regular basis. Hash through some of those discussions and you can end up somewhere near the truth. Or at least not as far from it as you started.


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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Hash through some of those discussions and you can end up somewhere near the truth. Or at least not as far from it as you started.
      That is what politics used to be about. Now it's just "We're good, they're bad" from both (all?) sides. And who is it that suffers for this bickering? Certainly not the ones doing the bickering.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Thom,

      Yeah. Network news was the only reason I had cable after a while. It finally got so bad I dumped that and get the news online now. I've also started hiding or unfriending people on Facebook who post a lot of really angry and inflammatory political memes.

      On the flip side I've found a few people who can disagree intelligently, and those are folks I pay attention to on a regular basis. Hash through some of those discussions and you can end up somewhere near the truth. Or at least not as far from it as you started.


      Paul
      I never got into the network news. Well that's a lie. I did watch it a lot during the Viet Nam war. After that it's always been local news. But like you now it's mostly the Internet.
      Facebook is hysterical I think. A lot of the time it seems like people start loosing IQ points (including me at times) as soon as they log in I do think I've gotten better with not posting the angry and inflammatory political crap on facebook. Truth be told I'm much happier on days when I don't see or hear any news and don't think about politics at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Truth be told I'm much happier on days when I don't see or hear any news and don't think about politics at all.
        I'm the same - I'm living these days with headphones on listening to music - I find it very relaxing.

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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Thom,

      Yeah. Network news was the only reason I had cable after a while. It finally got so bad I dumped that and get the news online now. I've also started hiding or unfriending people on Facebook who post a lot of really angry and inflammatory political memes.

      On the flip side I've found a few people who can disagree intelligently, and those are folks I pay attention to on a regular basis. Hash through some of those discussions and you can end up somewhere near the truth. Or at least not as far from it as you started.

      Paul
      That's the problem with this particular little bit of news. It's very difficult to research it and get information from reliable sources on the Internet. If you Google enterovirus and immigrants, the results are literally flooded with right wing propaganda blogs with headlines like "Obama complicit in the murder of children," "Obama should be hung for what he's done" and yada yada yada ... It was the same with ebola... it was as if Obama literally invented ebola as a present to the US.

      There is very little material, even on the CDC site to suggest a real correlation between this little bout of entero and illegal immigrants. The dubious blog reports all suggest that it is caused by the illegal children that have recently come here. Without real data, who knows? But enterovirus is as common as the cold and flu and has been here for decades.

      The bloggers all support their theories with the fact that this outbreak, which wasn't as deadly as the common flu is annually (by a long shot), started in August/September, which was when the children came here. Well, that's also the beginning of the school year, which is the beginning of colds and flu spreading because children can now share their little bugs with all the other children, who then take it back home to their parents, who then take it to their workplaces.

      Whenever the conservative or the left wing bloggers flood the Internet with "news" you can bet that it's politically motivated and not as likely to be based in fact, and what topic is more political right now than illegal immigration?
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Sal,

    Are they Mexican? Or Central American?

    The impression I got from the second article Thom linked to was largely CA, which is a good chunk of the illegal immigrants coming in over that border.


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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The kids flown in were South American. Trying to remember which country - I think Bolivia? I'll have to go back and look at a map, my SA geography is not acute. Plus - it's burned out down there now so I'm not sure if I can pinpoint which country now that it's no longer showing as infecting SA.

    Right now all that's going on in Central America is ChikV - and it's in El Paso now so skipped Mexico on that one - as far as any being reported yet anyhow.

    All that Mexico has right now is Dengue - not sure where they got it...it's all over India, Pakistan, Malaysia and China and a few countries out that way. I didn't realize Dengue was such a strong virus but there's people dying of it so I guess it's a good one to keep out of here if we can. So far so good.

    Edit: Also - I think I said Ethiopia kicked their Ebola - and I meant Nigeria. Libya is still getting hammered, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    People are moving around the world now. You're going to get diseases spreading - illegals or no illegals. I believe entro was brought here with the SA kids. They were in bad shape. I don't believe it came over the Mexican border. If Dengue ends up in the US near the border - that I will believe was brought in via that border - the outbreak isn't that far south of our border and there are people crossing there. It would be stupid to think that something won't get shuffled. It's flu season for cripes sakes.

    Illegals do bring in diseases, that's why we have immigration laws (that are being ignored), but every disease we're getting hit with isn't being brought over that border. Ebola wasn't. Entrovirus wasn't that I can tell because we had it before Mexico did - those kids from SA were the most likely source of that one. If we get swine flu - from what's on the map right now, it will be coming from the Europe/Russia border areas.

    The "conspiracy" sites are right that we need closed borders - for a lot of reasons, but just because we get a virus going around it doesn't necessarily mean the illegals brought it in. If anything is coming over the S. Border besides Dengue right now - it's not Mexicans coming over the border bringing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      People are moving around the world now. You're going to get diseases spreading - illegals or no illegals. I believe entro was brought here with the SA kids. They were in bad shape. I don't believe it came over the Mexican border.
      It didn't really have to "come" from anywhere. It's been here for decades. I would like to see all the legitimate news sources reporting hundreds of SA kids in our US hospitals with it, since they're allegedly responsible for it. That just hasn't happened though.

      I am with you on securing our borders and the issue of illegal immigration. I don't think that citizens of this country should have to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs and services. Some politicians say that we can't afford the SNAP program so our poorest children have something to eat, but we can afford the huge financial burden that illegal immigrants put on our schools and support systems. You want an eye opener ... just read Mexico's immigration policy. In fact, I think we should plagiarize it ... just cross out Mexico and write in US.

      I just don't think that scare mongering and inaccurate information about an extremely common disease is the way to handle illegal immigration.
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  • Profile picture of the author lptrendin
    It is very surprising and very serious issue for US. Ebola has to be stopped from spreading.
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    • Profile picture of the author gregdavidson727
      Originally Posted by lptrendin View Post

      It is very surprising and very serious issue for US. Ebola has to be stopped from spreading.
      Quarantines should do the trick. Unfortunately, the mainstream media has lead us to believe that quarantines don't work. Our elected politicians are making the same argument. According to a recent poll, about 80% of all Americans believe in quarantines. I find it odd that they're going against the will of the American people. They're supposed to work for us. We don't work for them.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by gregdavidson727 View Post

        Quarantines should do the trick. Unfortunately, the mainstream media has lead us to believe that quarantines don't work. Our elected politicians are making the same argument. According to a recent poll, about 80% of all Americans believe in quarantines. I find it odd that they're going against the will of the American people. They're supposed to work for us. We don't work for them.
        They are absolutely publicly belligerent about what we want. They do what they want because nobody stops them. Colorado and Oregon had a few recalls when the reps violated their oaths. Where's the rest of the people?

        The fact is - we're not going to get a quarantine, so people just need to get over it and figure out how to act if an outbreak of something occurs in their area - and work on keeping their immune system in high maintenance.
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        • Profile picture of the author gregdavidson727
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          The fact is - we're not going to get a quarantine, so people just need to get over it and figure out how to act if an outbreak of something occurs in their area - and work on keeping their immune system in high maintenance.
          Most Americans also don't realize that an Ebola outbreak in the United States could lead to a total economic collapse. We already saw what happened a few weeks ago when the stock market dropped over 1,000 points in just one week. That was from a single Ebola case. Just imagine what will happen when we have 500 cases, 5,000 cases or even 50,000 cases.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Originally Posted by gregdavidson727 View Post

            Most Americans also don't realize that an Ebola outbreak in the United States could lead to a total economic collapse. We already saw what happened a few weeks ago when the stock market dropped over 1,000 points in just one week. That was from a single Ebola case. Just imagine what will happen when we have 500 cases, 5,000 cases or even 50,000 cases.
            That is actually the biggest threat the ebola in the US poses right now. The nurse in Maine didn't even go into town, although she could, so the threat that she would hindered business there for a few weeks.

            Ohio town that the Ohio nurse from Texas visited was a ghost town and the wedding shop she visited had to close down for some time.

            As long as they are actually doing it, and there's every indication that they are, I'm happy with the 21-day monitoring for all visitors and returning health care workers, but the fact is, if people know who these people are, it's going to cause panic in the cities they live in, whether or not that is panic based in fact or just plain old panic.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The "scare mongering" has stopped. We're still getting possible cases in, but they aren't being broadcast anymore. Probably because of the intense call to close the borders because of it.

    Our immigration laws aren't that much different from Mexico's. Our leaders are actually in violation of our laws by not closing the border. Disease is one good reason. Like you pointed out, though, there's all sorts of good reasons. National sovereignty is one of them. You're not gonna hear Hollywood screaming for it, though - those hollywood rich are employing illegals as domestics very cheaply.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Our immigration laws aren't that much different from Mexico's.

      They are quite different in numerous ways. Much stricter than US Immigration law. Fact is, the rich people want illegal immigrants to serve as their gardeners, nannies, senior care providers, farming and any low paying, dirty job that Americans don't want to do.

      There is no denying the hypocrisy of Mexicans who insist on a secure border to the south but would prefer a porous one to the north. On trips to Mexico City to meet with government officials, I've raised that issue.

      But that doesn't let Americans off the hook for the role they play in this drama. U.S. employers willingly and eagerly hire immigrants from Mexico -- and Central America -- to do jobs that Americans won't do. The American household has never been more dependent on illegal immigrant labor that provides middle-class Americans with nannies, gardeners, housekeepers, senior caregivers and all the other comforts of what used to be an upper-middle-class lifestyle.
      • Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:
      – Foreigners are admitted into Mexico “according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress.” (Article 32)
      – Immigration officials must “ensure” that “immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents. (Article 34)
      – Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets “the equilibrium of the national demographics,” when foreigners are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when “they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy.” (Article 37)
      – The Secretary of Governance may “suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest.” (Article 38)

      • Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:
      – Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)
      – A National Population Registry keeps track of “every single individual who comprises the population of the country,” and verifies each individual’s identity. (Articles 85 and 86)
      – A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

      • Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:
      – Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)
      – Foreigners who sign government documents “with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses” are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

      • Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:
      – Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)
      – Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)
      – Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico — such as working with out a permit — can also be imprisoned.

      • Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,
      – “A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally.” (Article 123)
      – Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
      – Foreigners who “attempt against national sovereignty or security” will be deported. (Article 126)

      • Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:
      – A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
      – Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)
      And in the Mexico Constitution:

      The Mexican constitution denies fundamental property rights to foreigners.
      If foreigners wish to have certain property rights, they must renounce the protection of their own governments or risk confiscation. Foreigners are forbidden to own land in Mexico within 100 kilometers of land borders or within 50 kilometers of the coast.

      Article 27 states, “Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters. The State may grant the same right to foreigners, provided they agree before the Ministry of Foreign Relations to consider themselves as nationals in respect to such property, and bind themselves not to invoke the protection of their governments in matters relating thereto; under penalty, in case of noncompliance with this agreement, of forfeiture of the property acquired to the Nation. Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the country.” (Emphasis added)

      • The Mexican constitution denies equal employment rights to immigrants, even legal
      ones, in the public sector.

      “Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces.” (Article 32)

      • The Mexican constitution guarantees that immigrants will never be treated as real Mexican citizens, even if they are legally naturalized.
      Article 32 bans foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico from serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports:

      “In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia. It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of practique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic.”

      • The Mexican constitution singles out “undesirable aliens.” Article 11 guarantees federal protection against “undesirable aliens resident in the country.”

      • The Mexican constitution provides the right of private individuals to make citizen’s arrests.
      Article 16 states, “in cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.” Therefore, the Mexican constitution appears to grant Mexican citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution.

      • The Mexican constitution states that foreigners may be expelled for any reason and without due process.
      According to Article 33, “the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.”
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        They are quite different in numerous ways. Much stricter than US Immigration law. Fact is, the rich people want illegal immigrants to serve as their gardeners, nannies, senior care providers, farming and any low paying, dirty job that Americans don't want to do.





        And in the Mexico Constitution:
        Interesting. I didn't know it was that strict. I know I got hot under the collar real fast when the Mexican Gov slammed us for thinking of protecting our borders. Hypocrite seems to be a requirement for political positioning.

        There are far to many illegals taking far too many types of jobs. It's not just domestic and field hand. Out here in the west a lot of jobs require spanish/english spoken - good jobs. I'll be qualified right down the line for some until it gets to "must speak fluent spanish" . Americans don't get those jobs.

        At least once someone gets to those levels, they usually aren't dangerously diseased when they slip over a border.

        Steve - We have immigration laws and people are streaming over our border - you think that Britain isn't ignoring their laws, too? They're starting to get enough turmoil over there that they might have to call their military in to get rid of their illegals pretty soon. When immigrants start to demand rights that violate the people of that country's rights, people will eventually get fed up and kick them back out or otherwise "assimilate" them. I'd be afraid to be part of a large immigration group if the group decided it was a good idea to start yelling demands.

        Kay - after watching both the spread of disease (virus) and what they were doing with those kids - that's why I'm pretty certain that entrovirus68 is here due to the SA kids. Someone here said it's been here before, but this outbreak is so concurrent, and path specific, that I don't see much question of where it came from.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Interesting. I didn't know it was that strict. I know I got hot under the collar real fast when the Mexican Gov slammed us for thinking of protecting our borders. Hypocrite seems to be a requirement for political positioning.
          Yeah, it's interesting that they are SO strict, and want US to bend the other way!

          Steve - We have immigration laws and people are streaming over our border - you think that Britain isn't ignoring their laws, too? They're starting to get enough turmoil over there that they might have to call their military in to get rid of their illegals pretty soon.
          Well, they don't give illegals rights like they do in the US, I'm sure. But YEAH, they STILL have "refugees", and some aren't really refugees, but troublemakers.

          When immigrants start to demand rights that violate the people of that country's rights, people will eventually get fed up and kick them back out or otherwise "assimilate" them. I'd be afraid to be part of a large immigration group if the group decided it was a good idea to start yelling demands.
          Some have a CRAZY idea that THEIR group is the ONLY one being "assimilated", and don't look at it as a mutually beneficial necessity, but something like the BORG on STAR TREK!

          Kay - after watching both the spread of disease (virus) and what they were doing with those kids - that's why I'm pretty certain that entrovirus68 is here due to the SA kids. Someone here said it's been here before, but this outbreak is so concurrent, and path specific, that I don't see much question of where it came from.
          You've said it, and if someone throws a big rock over your home, and part of your home gets damaged ******WHY****** are we discussing what part of the rock damaged the home, or claiming the rock didn't do it when the REAL problem is that the rock was thrown?

          Say the illegals had NO unusual disease, and americans NEVER CAUGHT ANYTHING from them. That is IMMATERIAL! The REAL question is WHY ARE THEY EVEN HERE? If they want to be here, let them come via the proper channels. They ARE there!

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      The "scare mongering" has stopped. We're still getting possible cases in, but they aren't being broadcast anymore. Probably because of the intense call to close the borders because of it.

      Our immigration laws aren't that much different from Mexico's. Our leaders are actually in violation of our laws by not closing the border. Disease is one good reason. Like you pointed out, though, there's all sorts of good reasons. National sovereignty is one of them. You're not gonna hear Hollywood screaming for it, though - those hollywood rich are employing illegals as domestics very cheaply.
      YEAH! One unwritten law of countries is THEY HAVE BORDERS! What are the lines on maps? BORDERS! What makes a state a state? BORDERS! During a fight, what is the goal? PROTECT THE BORDER!

      Perhaps the two main goals of the coastguard are to effectively protect the border of US waters(waters within a certain distance of the US), and maintain certain laws within it.

      The US has had an immigration policy since sometime around the mid 1800s. In the earlier period, you could basically come here, say you wanted to be a citizen, and that was it. NOW, it is SUPPOSED to be harder. But it is that way with MANY countries. Is there a SINGLE country in all of Europe where you can merely walk in? There IS a kind of international law that allows you to become a refugee. A LOT of countries comply. Germany, Britain, Denmark, the US, etc..... But even THEN, you don't just walk in.

      But HEY, the current "US" really wants to OWN people, rather than have borders. If you are in the US, they will claim up and down you have to pay your "fair share" for resources in the US. Never mind that most of them were ones they didn't pay for. NOW, they say you should pay for being a citizen, at least if they can't make the resource argument.

      It IS ironic that we are paying for being citizens at a time when they say that a citizen really doesn't have any rights. Property may be crossed by various people, money is taken to pay for people that don't pay into the system and came here illegally. Even with voting, the machines change votes, and dead and illegal people are allowed to vote.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Is there a SINGLE country in all of Europe where you can merely walk in?
        Yes, Britain.

        It certainly feels that way over here anyway.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Sorry - just realize this thread was still going.

          Paul - the news item I saw identified a "flu strain" and chicken pox as the reasons for keeping kid at a "closed" facility.

          It wasn't the type disease so much as realizing we bused those kids all over the country. Tens of thousands of US school kids now have these "crossing" kids in their class at school. For the immigrants it's great to distribute them across the country - not sure it's so good for the citizens.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Yes, Britain.

          It certainly feels that way over here anyway.
          Even BRITAIN has, and talks about, the refugee policy, so you certainly can't just walk in there. If you COULD, they wouldn't have a special deal for refugee.

          Maybe walk in is a bad way of saying it, since they DO have "open borders". I don't know if that is because of the EU, or what, but they may check, and I know Switzerland checks the trains at least periodically. And EVEN the EU people have their passports handy, again, at least on trains. In WWII flicks, they make it seem like Germans always had their passport handy. I don't know if that was because of the war, or what, but today they apparently do. Same with the danes, French, british, swiss, etc...

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Nurses To Strike Across The Country For Two Days In Protest Of Poor Ebola Protections | ThinkProgress
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The Global Incidence map shows that there's a few places that up to 100 people (that one was Conn or a bordering state) are being monitored for it - not sick, just a flight from the right place to monitor. I haven't looked up any newspapers in those areas to see what the locals are saying about it. I'm sure there's at least a few editorials going on, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Seriously. I laugh when I see people point out one news source as "propaganda". These people do NOT understand that our mainstream news media is all corporate news. That means corporate owned, not journalists. They report what they are told to report, so whichever spin they take is directed by the corporation, not reporting resulting from active investigative journalism.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Seriously. I laugh when I see people point out one news source as "propaganda". These people do NOT understand that our mainstream news media is all corporate news. That means corporate owned, not journalists. They report what they are told to report, so whichever spin they take is directed by the corporation, not reporting resulting from active investigative journalism.
      As opposed to the true "journalists" with ebola keyword on the front page 32 times and over 20 ads plastered on their homepage. lol.

      Anyway ... Corporate news reports sadly that the Dr. who just arrived Saturday in Nebraska has died.

      http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...alia/19162043/

      It appears that he had a negative Ebola test on the 7th and then it was positive on the 10th and didn't get here until the 15th when he was already in "extremely critical" condition.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        As opposed to the true "journalists" with ebola keyword on the front page 32 times and over 20 ads plastered on their homepage. lol.

        Anyway ... Corporate news reports sadly that the Dr. who just arrived Saturday in Nebraska has died.

        Surgeon dies after 'false negative' Ebola test

        It appears that he had a negative Ebola test on the 7th and then it was positive on the 10th and didn't get here until the 15th when he was already in "extremely critical" condition.
        If you think Fox, Glenn Beck, mattdrudge, etc.... Are ONLY talking about ebola, etc... you are just wrong.

        On fox news, it is only ONE mention in third place, about the one you just mentioned.

        On glenn beck, the SAME story is the first ebola one, I didn't see another, but the FIFTEENTH story on the main page!

        On matt drudge, he has THREE stories! The one you mentioned is the 11th in the last column. The 10th is:

        A doctor

        And the 12th? OH, it is HEINOUS! It talks about how you will likely SURVIVE ebola if you do one little thing. I won't steal his thunder, but the lack of it IS a known reason for death from ebola. But WOW, he shouldn't mention a way of "beating the virus" if the virus happens to be called ebola?

        OH, and read that 10th story! It may save your life! It talks about how a doctor, having some symptoms of ebola, took a test, was declared OK, and people got out of their protective gear, cried happy tears, hugged him, etc... NOW, he is DEAD, after a second test showed he had it, and all those people are in QUARANTINE!!!!!! Apparently he is the SAME guy that died in nebraska!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          If you think Fox, Glenn Beck, mattdrudge, etc.... Are ONLY talking about ebola, etc... you are just wrong.
          Steve
          No, I wasn't talking about Fox, Beck or Drudge. I don't consider them news sources at all and wouldn't give them a page visit. I was talking about a frequently cited "news source" that is also not really news - Natural Whatever - that had ebola stuffed on their front page 32 times and something like 26 ads in their sidebar ... looked like the Las Vegas strip with flashing neon signs.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        As opposed to the true "journalists" with ebola keyword on the front page 32 times and over 20 ads plastered on their homepage. lol.

        Anyway ... Corporate news reports sadly that the Dr. who just arrived Saturday in Nebraska has died.

        Loved ones, nation mourn latest Ebola victim in U.S.

        It appears that he had a negative Ebola test on the 7th and then it was positive on the 10th and didn't get here until the 15th when he was already in "extremely critical" condition.
        I've actually written to a few "alternative" news sources and told them they are just as bad as mainstream. Getting sick of it all. That's why I get as close to a main source as possible whenever possible instead of listening to any of it anymore. I'm beyond disgusted. But it's easiest to start at the news sources when you aren't dealing with something simple like legislation you can just look up and read for yourself without media interpretation. As far as ebola - where do we get the news? I watch the incident map along with just mainstream.

        Looks like you and Steve beat me to the link on the false negative test. That is very discomforting - the false negative, not that you beat me to it. Especially the part about them all hugging each other in the quarantine. Yikes. I'm still maintaining that we should be talking to the country that whacked a fairly large outbreak very quickly. They seem to know what their doing, so if we get an actual outbreak, we need to call them in (can't remember which country it was at the moment, Nigeria, I think).
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Looks like you and Steve beat me to the link on the false negative test. That is very discomforting - the false negative, not that you beat me to it. Especially the part about them all hugging each other in the quarantine. Yikes. I'm still maintaining that we should be talking to the country that whacked a fairly large outbreak very quickly. They seem to know what their doing, so if we get an actual outbreak, we need to call them in (can't remember which country it was at the moment, Nigeria, I think).
          Yeah ... that is disturbing about the hugging after a negative test, especially since some of those may not have access to the best medical care. His viral load was too low to detect when he first took the test, but it seems to me that he progressed from that point to extremely critical very quickly. I'm wondering why it took from the 10th to the 15th to get him out of there and in the hospital at Nebraska. That's too much time after a positive test.

          The country you're talking about is Nigeria and they're not doing anything differently than we are. They followed strict quarantine and monitoring policies and didn't allow it to spread. Considering all of the hundreds of people who had contact with victims in our country, we've done equally well in containing any spread, once the Texas hospital was out of the picture.

          All of the medications and vaccines are now on fast track and I believe that they will be the key to breaking this epidemic in Africa, unless the virus just runs through every person it comes in contact with there and either kills them or not.

          I don't see the people actually changing enough that they do things drastically differently than they have been doing things, like burials, caring for their sick, eating bush meat, etc. That combined with the lack of hospitals and medical staff to care for them, unless a chemical solution comes along fast to break it, it may run its course and take a very heavy toll.
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          • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            The country you're talking about is Nigeria and they're not doing anything differently than we are. They followed strict quarantine and monitoring policies and didn't allow it to I don't see the people actually changing enough that they do things drastically differently than they have been doing things, like burials, caring for their sick, eating bush meat, etc. That combined with the lack of hospitals and medical staff to care for them, unless a chemical solution comes along fast to break it, it may run its course and take a very heavy toll.
            A relative of mine is one of the top infection control nurses in the RAF and was on the plane that went out to bring an Ebola victim back to the UK some weeks ago (he eventually recovered). I love her to bits and am incredibly proud of her. The mission was shrouded in secrecy at the time, although it was all over the news by the time the plane landed so it's no secret now. Before she left it was rumoured that she would have to spend several weeks in quarantine on her return, but she was back with her family within days. If a lot of what the more hysterical voices in the media are saying about the disease is true then it ought to be rampant in her part of the UK by now. Colour me baffled.

            Like you say, the medics across the world are all doing the same things (although I do wonder about our version of 'strict quarantine'!) Somewhere along the line, the root of it must lie in educating people in stricken countries to behave differently and finding a way to provide them with the facilities to do so.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    I do have a problem with some of the "reporting" that's going on in regard to all this. Just got an email with the headline "2nd US Ebola Fatality".

    It is not. We have had no US fatalities. We had 2 people who either came here or returned from Africa who just happened to die on American soil. But so far not one person has caught Ebola from another person here in the US directly.

    The sensationalism going on with this whole thing reminds me of why I hate the media and never watch the news.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm inclined to agree with that view, Suzanne. If people have this going on and they refuse to change what they are doing to stem it, there's not a lot that anyone else can do, either. I just hope that any flights out of those areas are coming under enough scrutiny to keep the spread light to none. I do feel that anywhere that has not been able to at least contain infection should have flights banned by now, though. If they aren't responsible enough to contain a massive outbreak, we shouldn't be forced to feel they have "rights" to just go wherever. That issue doesn't sit well with me at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    WATCH: Hollywood Stars Use Awkward Silence To Make A Point About Ebola
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Ho crap. This ain't good. Blood samples suspected of ebola infections ....stolen by bandits.

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/bandits-gu...105900372.html
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Good news on the vaccine being developed

    First Human Ebola Vaccine Trial Shows It Seems to Work - NBC News

    They plan on vaccinating health care workers by January

    A look at the first 20 people injected with the vaccine, which has been shown to protect monkeys from Ebola, shows no dangerous side effects. And it seems to be producing an immune response that would be expected to protect them from infection.

    "This response is very comparable to the level of the response that actually protected the animals," said Dr. Tony Fauci, head of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, which helped develop and test the vaccine.
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