Your Website Looks Awful

12 years ago

Maybe they already know it sucks. Maybe it's already a pain point with them. Why not ask how they feel about their website; if they feel it could be better; get better results? Have them tell you it sucks instead of you telling or implying it to them? Caveat: I don't do telephone sales.

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Sue McDonald

12 years ago

Originally Posted by misterme

Maybe they already know it sucks. Maybe it's already a pain point with them. Why not ask how they feel about their website; if they feel it could be better; get better results? Have them tell you it sucks instead of you telling or implying it to them? Caveat: I don't do telephone sales.

I agree asking them their own opinion of their website. It might not be the best looking site but if it working for them - it doesn't matter if it is ugly or not.
If it is not working they will be certain to let you know and they can ask your suggestions to make it better.

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CudaFish

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Sue McDonald

I agree asking them their own opinion of their website. It might not be the best looking site but if it working for them - it doesn't matter if it is ugly or not.
If it is not working they will be certain to let you know and they can ask your suggestions to make it better.

Agreed. Probing is important.

I'd ask those types of questions after I make the statement I pasted in above.

- Mark Cuda

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willrod

12 years ago

Originally Posted by playtone

Hey Guys

Just wondering, lately i have been hitting the phones and doing pretty well 20K-25K per month to some it's not a lot but for 2 days work a week and out sourcing everything it's pretty good.

My block is when i speak to people who already have a website that looks terrible how can i nicely say your website sucks we can do one much better.

What do you guys do in this situation.

That's a great way to lead into it.

My next question would be, do you gage your prices according to the client or do you have a set fee for everything?

Is actual cold calling working, or have you been going to the businesses yourself as well?

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playtone

12 years ago

Originally Posted by willrod

That's a great way to lead into it.

My next question would be, do you gage your prices according to the client or do you have a set fee for everything?

Is actual cold calling working, or have you been going to the businesses yourself as well?

I go according to the client, when i walk into the store i take a quick look around, i never talk about price in the first meeting i talk about there business, what they want to achieve online ect ect.

Something i always do is talk about a product and do a massive sell on it but then say but at this stage i dont recommend it right now as lets get your new website up and running then we can talk about it. Some will agree others will dis agree but to me it shows you want to have a long term relationship with the customer and you are not just trying to make a quick buck.
My last sale
Website eCommerce $8990.
When completed
VIP Shopping extension - $1195
Membership Extension - $995
Mobile Site $2995.

Now i could have added the above into the first quote but i go out of my way to make sure they are happy during the design process then when it comes time for these, there is no sell. As 99% of people who sell WSO's say people are begging to do business with me.
(Disclaimer after many years of sales i have never had anybody on there knees begging me to sell them something and neither have people who sell WSO's)

As for the cold calling section no i dont make the calls myself, i have an appointment setter who does this all i do is go in and meet them.

I pay my guy pretty well for the Philippines around $800 Australian per month
+ commissions which is normally 4-5 hundred per month. Since a basic 5 page wordpress site is $3995 he pays for himself in the first few days of the month every month.

Hope this helps

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swilliams09

12 years ago

20k a month? Selling websites? Are you serious? Who is your clientele?

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playtone 12 years ago

Originally Posted by swilliams09

20k a month? Selling websites? Are you serious? Who is your clientele?

I am not sure whether you think 20k is good or bad......
What do you charge for a website
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- Jason Kanigan 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by playtone
  
  I am not sure whether you think 20k is good or bad......
  What do you charge for a website
  
  They think it is fantastic.
  
  Most people aren't making anywhere near what you are.
  
  Back to your original question, ask them what they think of their own site.
  
  Is it working for them?
  
  How many leads per day does it bring in?
  
  Is it working the way they thought it would?
  
  Do they feel it represents them properly in the online world?
  
  In a perfect world, if everything was running smoothly, what would their site look like, feel like, and how would it behave?
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
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  >> For Agency Founders: The Fast Shortcut To Selling SEO, Leadgen, Webdesign & Other Services
  
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  playtone 12 years ago
  
  Thanks Jason. I not only read your post i take action on what you say in them.
  
  You know the funny thing is the people that are not making this amount a month would know far more than me but it seems to me people get scared of asking for high fees, instead they want a sale so instead of charging 5,6,7k they ask for 1-2k sometimes even less.
  
  I am not boasting nor try and sell a WSO but in the last three weeks i have quoted 35k and won 15k that's 3 sites, have a meeting tomorrow which i will sign them up as well. My clients are small to medium companies nothing major. The thing is when you work for one of these clients they have friends who they recommend your services to, now the new customer knows the price before he calls you.
  
  This is my thinking work with 10 companies and 1000 per site or work with 2 companies 5k a site. If you working with 2 companies but making the same as 10 imagine how much time you can dedicate to them and in turn how great they will think you are giving them all this time. You may agree or disagree. Personally if somebody wants to spend under 2k on a site i give them the names of three other companies and tell them to go there as that's not what we do
  
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willrod 12 years ago

Originally Posted by swilliams09

20k a month? Selling websites? Are you serious? Who is your clientele?

I would believe it. I work part time on the weekends and make 8k last month from designing websites.

I should have charged higher prices, which is something I am in the process of ironing out, but it's totally doable
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Heart Cardio

12 years ago

Ask what they like about their site and what they would change if they could. Maybe this will get them talking about things that they know are wrong with the site.

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digichik

12 years ago

"I saw your website and noticed it could use some updating. I hasn't been updated since 2005, that's 8 years"

I have found that businesses which have websites from the late 90s and early 2000s seem to be married to those "pre-historic geo-cities webpages" and don't want to change them, they love them. --- NEXT

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Michael71

12 years ago

Hahaha, could not resist

Could anyone of you show me examples of your work, please?

Originally Posted by digichik

"I saw you website and noticed it could use some updating. I hasn't been updated since 2005, that's 8 years"

I have found that businesses which have websites from the late 90s and early 2000s seem to be married to those "pre-historic geo-cities webpages" and don't want to change them, they love them. --- NEXT

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monstrapecuniam

12 years ago

Originally Posted by playtone

My block is when i speak to people who already have a website that looks terrible how can i nicely say your website sucks we can do one much better.

And what's wrong with a website that looks terrible if it makes money? - Try to assess the purpose of the website (e.g. making money) and approach the owner telling them that you can improve their website goals.

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Jon Martin

12 years ago

A lot of the time I'm just honest with the person I'm talking. "Mr. Smith, your website is pretty outdated, wouldn't you agree?".

If the website hasn't been touched in awhile they'll agree with me the vast majority of the time. If they disagree, I move straight into how the website is working for them. I ask about traffic, how much business they're generating from the website, etc.

Sometimes insulting them isn't a terrible thing to do. Maybe they're not computer savvy at all and they didn't even know the site wasn't up to par. Don't make them cry and personally attack them, but don't worry too much about their feelings either. Be honest and create a need.

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Marty S

12 years ago

You are making 25k a month and are asking in the WF how to gingerly phrase a question to your prospects? :rolleyes:

Something doesn't add up here.

Also, if you are turning down business of 2K or less, you should just sell the leads here. There are a LOT of ways offliners can turn a 2K website business model into a full time income. Heck, my best client right now started with me at $25 per month!!!!

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playtone

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Marty S

You are making 25k a month and are asking in the WF how to gingerly phrase a question to your prospects? :rolleyes:

Something doesn't add up here.

Also, if you are turning down business of 2K or less, you should just sell the leads here. There are a LOT of ways offliners can turn a 2K website business model into a full time income. Heck, my best client right now started with me at $25 per month!!!!

Hey Mate

Everything adds up here, if there is a way to make more money why wouldn't i want to get some input.

I dont sell leads if people cant find leads they might want to look for a new industry.

I hope your $25.00 client is paying you for a 5 mins conversation over the phone where he can ask one question. If you are doing any more than that dump the client

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Voasi

12 years ago

Originally Posted by playtone

Hey Guys

Just wondering, lately i have been hitting the phones and doing pretty well 20K-25K per month to some it's not a lot but for 2 days work a week and out sourcing everything it's pretty good.

My block is when i speak to people who already have a website that looks terrible how can i nicely say your website sucks we can do one much better.

What do you guys do in this situation.

Just come out and say their website looks horrible. I do it all the time. Most of the time they'll agree. But you need to back it up with why you think it's terrible, from a conversion standpoint. Business owners don't care about your opinion, unless it's an opinion with how to make them more money. So if you say...

"I was checking out your website, clicking the links...and... I have to be honest. This website is pretty bad. XX is in the wrong spot. XX needs to be bigger/bolder. You need a call-to-action on XX. Once we fix all these things, you'll be converting MUCH higher, without spending more money on traffic. It's like FREE MONEY because you'll have a website that converts more visitors into traffic/leads/revenue and you won't need to spend more money to get those visitors!"

...at least, that's my typical speel.

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boatree

12 years ago

playtone,

Any help would be appreciated:

1. What do you include in your 5K package?

2. So your target small - medium sized businesses with the 20 employees?

3. Do you primarily generate your business via cold calling?

Thanks,

Originally Posted by playtone

Hey Guys

Just wondering, lately i have been hitting the phones and doing pretty well 20K-25K per month to some it's not a lot but for 2 days work a week and out sourcing everything it's pretty good.

My block is when i speak to people who already have a website that looks terrible how can i nicely say your website sucks we can do one much better.

What do you guys do in this situation.

Thanks
2 replies

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CudaFish

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Voasi

Just come out and say their website looks horrible. I do it all the time. Most of the time they'll agree. But you need to back it up with why you think it's terrible, from a conversion standpoint. Business owners don't care about your opinion, unless it's an opinion with how to make them more money. So if you say...

"I was checking out your website, clicking the links...and... I have to be honest. This website is pretty bad. XX is in the wrong spot. XX needs to be bigger/bolder. You need a call-to-action on XX. Once we fix all these things, you'll be converting MUCH higher, without spending more money on traffic. It's like FREE MONEY because you'll have a website that converts more visitors into traffic/leads/revenue and you won't need to spend more money to get those visitors!"

...at least, that's my typical speel.

Not to knock you Voasi, I respect the heck out of you, your business and things I've garnished from a few WSO's you have, and I hate to disagree with you here, but I would advise STRONGLY play tone, to not go for this route. For someone like you, with your position, maybe it works wonders. But it will only work for some people.

Instead, take a route like this: (Note: This is a line taken from an actual script we use in our business that regular does 10k+ in new revenue monthly...I will release a sales focused WSO at some point on this subject, but reciprocity is so crucial in any sale really. Use this with caution, it really works

)

"I took a look at your website and I noticed it was kind of out of date. _________, I had my team put together a custom lead capture focused site and if you’ve got sixty seconds, I’d like to share with you an idea. Sound Fair enough?"

- Mark Cuda

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playtone

12 years ago

Originally Posted by boatree

playtone,

Any help would be appreciated:

1. What do you include in your 5K package?

2. So your target small - medium sized businesses with the 20 employees?

3. Do you primarily generate your business via cold calling?

Thanks,

My 5k package is a basic ecommerce website with the first 10 products uploaded
What 20 employees? I target business i think want to spend money small medium large
I only do cold calling or i should say i have people do my cold calling for me

Thanks

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vjboc

12 years ago

What have you been say to be making 20k to 25k a month. Obviously what you been doing to generate that kind of income is working. Don't stop.

Thanks
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shane_k

12 years ago

Originally Posted by playtone

You know the funny thing is the people that are not making this amount a month would know far more than me but it seems to me people get scared of asking for high fees, instead they want a sale so instead of charging 5,6,7k they ask for 1-2k sometimes even less.

You are right a big part of it is Fear.

Another part of it is self-belief and/or confidence in their ability to deliver on what they promise.

And another big part of it that is not usually talked about is people are trained to ask for low numbers, and to go after small mom and pop style business.

You can see it in a lot of WSO's where they talk about what niches to target, what size businesses, and how much to ask for. Most of they mention the pretty much the same numbers $250 - $1,000.

And what happens is they are trained to ask for and expect this level of revenue, so they never try or think that bigger is possible. Or their own self beliefs get in the way and they don't believe they deserve more or are worth more.

Originally Posted by vjboc

What have you been say to be making 20k to 25k a month. Obviously what you been doing to generate that kind of income is working. Don't stop.

It's not so much what he says as it is more about the belief behind the words.

Not only that, but I am betting that he is not targeting small businesses where $3,000 for a mobile site will seem outrageous to them.

But he is targeting companies where that $3,000 is a drop in the bucket.

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kenmichaels

12 years ago

Originally Posted by shane_k

You are right a big part of it is Fear.

Another part of it is self-belief and/or confidence in their ability to deliver on what they promise.

And another big part of it that is not usually talked about is people are trained to ask for low numbers, and to go after small mom and pop style business.

You can see it in a lot of WSO's where they talk about what niches to target, what size businesses, and how much to ask for. Most of they mention the pretty much the same numbers $250 - $1,000.

And what happens is they are trained to ask for and expect this level of revenue, so they never try or think that bigger is possible. Or their own self beliefs get in the way and they don't believe they deserve more or are worth more.

It's not so much what he says as it is more about the belief behind the words.

Not only that, but I am betting that he is not targeting small businesses where $3,000 for a mobile site will seem outrageous to them.

But he is targeting companies where that $3,000 is a drop in the bucket.

A lot of time people charge what they feel they are worth.

Unfortunately sometimes (more often then not) ...
they never take the time to understand what that value truly is.

It is a sad fact.

You summed things up rather nicely Shane ... Kudos

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playtone

12 years ago

Originally Posted by shane_k

It's not so much what he says as it is more about the belief behind the words.

Not only that, but I am betting that he is not targeting small businesses where $3,000 for a mobile site will seem outrageous to them.

But he is targeting companies where that $3,000 is a drop in the bucket.

One hundred percent correct, before i go and see a customer i find out about there business, when i am with them i am looking at stock and employees.

When i am talking to my clients i speak with confidence, which makes them feel confident in dealing with me. I dont BS whats the point you will get found out.

I will tell you a secret "I have never ever sold a website i have never sold a mobile site, never sold SEO in fact i have never sold a product in my life. The fee that my client pays is the fee to deal with me, its a fee for my time, its a fee that they pay knowing they are looked after"

Stop trying to sell products and learn to sell yourself.

If you are struggling getting more for your services send me a PM. I am more than happy to see if i can help you get over some hurdles. Before you PM please note:

1) This is not a WSO, i am not interested making money, i am more interested in the feeling I will get when you email me telling me thanks i landed a 5k customer today

2) I dont want your email address so i can market stuff to you, i dont have anything to market nor could i be bothered putting a product together to market to you.

3) I will chat to you for an hour or so but i am not the kind of guy that will give you a hug and tell you it's not your fault you are not making the money you want, because it is your fault. In other words if you are one of these touchy feely kind a people dont PM me, if F bombs offend you dont PM me.

4) After our conversation customers will not be begging you for your services (I cant believe people try and sell things on this site by saying that) but you will be more confident in asking for what you are worth.

5) Lastly my time is very important to me so dont waste it

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Rearden

12 years ago

You don't know what you don't know.

When you see it in action, the amount of money businesses spend on products and services ancillary to their business function is incredible.

A couple of thousand dollars is a drop in the bucket for many. Especially if they trust you can solve their problem.

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playtone

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Rearden

You don't know what you don't know.

When you see it in action, the amount of money businesses spend on products and services ancillary to their business function is incredible.

A couple of thousand dollars is a drop in the bucket for many. Especially if they trust you can solve their problem.

Totally agree. Quick Story.

I was with a client today for a meeting today, client wanted eCommerce website, SMS marketing and to have a designer on a monthly retainer as in his words "I understand the internet thing can make my business money but i struggle to use electric mails (his words).

I was with him for 1.5 -2 hours during which time he was talking about the mark up of his products. In short his mark up was a minimum 50%. In the time i was there he sold 3 products totaling $22,000 50% of that is 11k. His business made 11k profit in 2 hours. When it came time to talk about price my 5k site wnt to 9k of course there was a discount of 10% if he order today.

Deal was done. He is holding off on the SMS as he wants to gather details but that will be sold as well. He also said he wants to have me as his consultant for everything online at 3k a month.

Now before the haters hate this is a rare customer but the point is i will have this client for many years and make good money. While that WSO which will have customers begging for your services selling websites at 500-1000 dollars you will need 8 clients to my 1.

Now who do you think is going to take care of there clients better the designer with one client paying 8k or the designer with 8 clients paying 1k?

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kelvintoro

12 years ago

Just be honest with them. Tell them their sites don't look good and they could be a lot better. They're business people, so they can't be too sensitive about criticisms. Otherwise, they would not survive in the business world.

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andrewkar 12 years ago

I think talking about looks of the site is not even nearly as good as telling them about profits they should be doing.

Sometimes I tell them something like this (but only if I know they are good fit for this kind of talk) :

"Can I ask you a question? (with intriguing but warm, friendly tone of voice. Then waiting for the answer).

"Ok. How many weeks have you been on holidays during last 6 months? I will explain in 10 seconds...Don't WORRY. Just tell me... (with warm smile on face, and maybe with compassion if they seem to be fu*** up)" (a lot will say "I'm not worried... and they will give me some number. Others will ask why I need to know that, some will think it's kind of joke, some will say I have no time for that, what you have?... and that's OK).

Some people will say they have NO free days, some have 2,3 day long brakes. However most will say NO proper holidays (just once a year for 5-10 days at most and some brakes).

And then I'm going into how their website should be, and if they do this and that, their free time will surly expand because website will make more money for them bla bla (I'm setting logical case).

Unless of cousre, they don't give a s**** about more free time and want just more money (But a lot of them want more free time actually. Especially when we start "crying" TOGETHER about how tough it is to do business these days etc.)

So maybe it's a bit around way but I don't confronting them directly and don't want to talk about their web guy.

Anyway, I'm not expert at this in any way and I have soo mixed fillings about cold calling... One day I think it's ok, another I just hate it.
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Anoosh Kashefi

12 years ago

I learned how to use constructive criticism pretty well when I was in high school. You know, when the kid shows his project you say..

I liked how you did this and this, BUT I think there are a number of things that we could do better. For example, ....

I would use this technique... Your being nice, but still getting your point across. For example..

I like the layout but I think the colors could use a bit of work because it is working against your objective, and think it might even have an effect on your bounce rate..

Something like this should be fine. Or, you could just say "To be honest, your website sucks!".. JK! Don't do that... Anyway, good luck!

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CudaFish

12 years ago

Great story, playtone, it's so true too. The big fish always are a more profitable option. What kind of business was that 9k website deal?

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playtone 12 years ago

Originally Posted by CudaFish

Great story, playtone, it's so true too. The big fish always are a more profitable option. What kind of business was that 9k website deal?

They were a camping and hunting store
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SkyeFWP

12 years ago

Playtone,

If you don't mind - What lead sources do you find to be the most productive?

Thanks

S

Thanks
1 reply

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playtone 12 years ago

Originally Posted by SkyeFWP

Playtone,

If you don't mind - What lead sources do you find to be the most productive?

Thanks

S

I find referrals the best way to get business but to get to this stage i found cold calling the best way to talk to people
- Thanks
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msu

12 years ago

I think the key to telling someone their website sucks is to not tell them their website sucks.

For a start, their son may have designed it

Concentrate on the business aspect by asking them how many sales / leads it generates per week. Sticking to business numbers stops the conversation from getting personal.

Remember the person you're on the phone with probably approved the design - so if you imply their site sucks, you imply they do too.

Thanks
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jsoli

12 years ago

I'd be interested in hearing how you guys go about closing a deal...

I've been doing cold calls all this week and I've had mixed success!

Granted it's my first week and I'm new to this but I'm a rampant perfectionist and I want to know I'm doing absolutely everything I CAN to make sure that these people know I can improve their website and in doing so help them earn more money.

I seem to be able to get these people talking... I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the services I'm trying to sell BUT when it comes to actually trying to close a deal I have no idea when the best time to do that is OR the best way to approach it.

Edit: I actually called a guy yesterday and this is what happens...

Hi my name's _________ I'm calling today to have a chat about your website...

At this point the guy stops me before I can get any further which RARELY happens though I'm sure my opener isn't perfect (it's more straight to the point).

He says 'I've already got a website thanks and puts the phone down.

That just really ticked me off and I decided since he didn't listen and I didn't have a chance to let him know information that I really think he SHOULD know I sent him a follow up e-mail...

I came straight out and said:

Your website is crap!

There I said it.

The search engines don't index it for keywords based around plumbing or heating. So you're losing customers!

The design is one of the worst and most unprofessional I've seen in a while.

I called you today to try and sugar coat it...

To try and actually help you!

Clearly if you're not looking to grow your business than our services are not for you. Because with our help your customer numbers are going to increase.

But hey! What do I know?

It's not like this is my profession or anything... Or like I set up a campaign xxx.xxxxx.com to offer 50% off of all our services for local businesses so they can actually have a website that looks professional, doesn't scare away customers and dare I say it... Bring them in!

Good luck with your business, you're going to need it if you refuse to move forward with the times.

It got a response off of him and admittedly it was a negative one BUT I grabbed his attention and sent him another e-mail which was a much softer tone - apologized for my abruptness and explained how I'm passionate about this then gave him the original information that I wanted to give him on the phone!

Now we're setting up another consultation.

I wouldn't use this unless you have nothing else to lose from the prospect though.

Thanks
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CudaFish

12 years ago

Originally Posted by jsoli

I'd be interested in hearing how you guys go about closing a deal...

I've been doing cold calls all this week and I've had mixed success!

Granted it's my first week and I'm new to this but I'm a rampant perfectionist and I want to know I'm doing absolutely everything I CAN to make sure that these people know I can improve their website and in doing so help them earn more money.

I seem to be able to get these people talking... I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the services I'm trying to sell BUT when it comes to actually trying to close a deal I have no idea when the best time to do that is OR the best way to approach it.

Edit: I actually called a guy yesterday and this is what happens...

Hi my name's _________ I'm calling today to have a chat about your website...

At this point the guy stops me before I can get any further which RARELY happens though I'm sure my opener isn't perfect (it's more straight to the point).

He says 'I've already got a website thanks and puts the phone down.

That just really ticked me off and I decided since he didn't listen and I didn't have a chance to let him know information that I really think he SHOULD know I sent him a follow up e-mail...

I came straight out and said:

Your website is crap!

There I said it.

The search engines don't index it for keywords based around plumbing or heating. So you're losing customers!

The design is one of the worst and most unprofessional I've seen in a while.

I called you today to try and sugar coat it...

To try and actually help you!

Clearly if you're not looking to grow your business than our services are not for you. Because with our help your customer numbers are going to increase.

But hey! What do I know?

It's not like this is my profession or anything... Or like I set up a campaign xxx.xxxxx.com to offer 50% off of all our services for local businesses so they can actually have a website that looks professional, doesn't scare away customers and dare I say it... Bring them in!

Good luck with your business, you're going to need it if you refuse to move forward with the times.

It got a response off of him and admittedly it was a negative one BUT I grabbed his attention and sent him another e-mail which was a much softer tone - apologized for my abruptness and explained how I'm passionate about this then gave him the original information that I wanted to give him on the phone!

Now we're setting up another consultation.

I wouldn't use this unless you have nothing else to lose from the prospect though.

Back in my first days cold calling I did this type of thing. In fact, I'd have called the guy back immediately and said it over the phone! Then I'd soften it up and baby him again haha.

That's how I got the name CudaFish! I was like a barracuda on the phone. Out for blood! Just kidding haha.

But yeah, I'd take a more constructive critisim path normally, if your tonality is right and you say the exact words you should, you can't lose.

- Mark Cuda

Thanks

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cudafish.com | marketing | design | work / life balance

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monstrapecuniam 12 years ago

Originally Posted by jsoli

I came straight out and said:

Your website is crap!

(...)
It got a response off of him and admittedly it was a negative one (...).

Hahaha! What not to do!
- Thanks
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