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Need some advice, troubling me for a while

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Unisons
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Basically I got a client, who requested for a clone type site for a relatively big scaled business website (something like Facebook, not that though). There were many plugins and themes for something like this, so why not.

Then he requested something extra, a customized solution. I calculated the costs via outsourcing this and gave him a price. And started work.

Now here comes the problem. Realized this type of business site is so big scaled that unless 50k+ is being pumped into this, it will not even work as well as expected. Especially with his customized points.

And luckily for me my outsourcer isn't that bad, but isn't that good either. Work is being done, but I can see that it's being done slightly sloppily and I have to keep reminding him etc. It's been going on like this for about a month (Deadline's not up yet, soon though), and I've been pulling my hair out. It's on a Magento platform, so there's newletters, small inner pages, templates, work flow etc and many other small details.

And this client has their sales team ready, their lawyers ready to start working on this business, and I look at the site and I don't see anything comparable with the original business site he wants to clone. I'm basically so flustered about managing this whole thing knowing it doesn't look and 'feel' as well as he expected. I've asked around, a site like this costs around $30-60k to make, I've been working for less than 15% of it, thinking I'd make a profit. One of the worst decisions I've ever made. Been killing my life the last 1-2 months.

I'm not sure how he's going to respond seeing the site. I myself wouldn't even use this site at all...seeing there's plenty of other big clones out there already.

Now I'm moving onto another business and web design isn't going to be done anymore, I have no idea what do I do now. Finding another company to take over this client when I'm done and maintain and take care of this website seems like an impossibility.

This has been affecting my life, my mood, my relationship, my business and everything else. I just become worried all the time. I can't even refund him, I don't even have money right now to return him and also pay my contractor. My contractor's been requesting for funds and I've got none till the project's completed and the client releases the funds.

I just seem to be in a big mess and really stressed out over this, and hope to hear what you guys think.
#advice #troubling
  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
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    This is why I don't understand when threads come around talking about how you can go sell these complex websites for tens of thousands of dollars, if you only have the confidence. I can't even comprehend how difficult it must be to start from scratch on something like this and find trustworthy, experienced developers. Or even just figuring out what the cost to develop these kind of sites would be is mind boggling to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
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      Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

      This is why I don't understand when threads come around talking about how you can go sell these complex websites for tens of thousands of dollars, if you only have the confidence. I can't even comprehend how difficult it must be to start from scratch on something like this and find trustworthy, experienced developers. Or even just figuring out what the cost to develop these kind of sites would be is mind boggling to me.
      I could not agree more. I understand the appeal of the "big deal" but unless I had an inhouse team I trusted I would never want to attempt one. I hate seeing warriors bite off more than they can handle. It's one of the reasons I get a bit testy with people who tell these guys not to waste their time going after local small deals.

      You have to handle the small jobs before you handle the big ones. Very few companies make the big deal one of their first deals. Microsoft didn't start with Windows, hell they didn't even start with DOS. They started with normal software not an OS. Every resturant chain out there originally started as one resturant. Hell some of them like McD's were not even turned into more by their original creators and owners.

      You have to know you limits. Yes we should all strive to push past them but you have to make sure you can before you over promise and under deliver.

      Let's say I can run a 10 min mile (I don't think I can honestly). Pushing past my limits would be going for the 9 min mile. Saying I could do a sub 4 min mile in two weeks would be crazy. I can't get that much better that fast.

      Business works the same way. You can push beyond your abilities but there is still a learning curve. You see this on Shark Tank where companies are trying to grow too fast and the Sharks give them a dose of reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew H
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    Ah this is something all of us have experienced when we first started out. Personally I do not outsource any of my programming overseas (I do most of it, and have local developers when need be). However there are two critical problems that happened (that have happened to everyone when we first started):

    1. You did not use milestones, and it doesn't even sound like you took a deposit. Always take 40% upfront. If it's a large project you can work milestones in to release funds as you show results. The reason many people don't take deposits is because we are afraid it will lose the sale. If the client refuses to give a deposit, they are not someone you want to work with anyway.
    2. You under quoted the project. I did this on my first couple projects because I was desperate for work. Learn from your mistakes.

    It sounds like now you are in a bind. I recommend getting the project finished and pushing the outsourced developers to make a top quality product. Show it to the client and hope he's happy. Legally as long as you fulfilled all the obligations of the contract you are ok (ie: not happy with the design is not a breach of contract - unless you have a very weak contract), however it's kind of a dick move to delivery a crap project.

    Also, I suppose it's always an option to go back and ask for more funds - stating x was more complicated than expected. I have heard of people doing this, although I have never done it myself - I usually just absorb any extra costs if it is my fault (only happened once).

    I hope it all works out for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrmatt
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    Been in your shoes, but not to the degree you are buried in this thing.

    I agreed to do an ecommerce site make over. Only had a handful of products so I thought no biggie. Charged way to little, knew nothing about ecommerce sites, project ended up taking way to long. And I ended up making about $2 an hr.

    I took it in the shorts. But learned a good lesson.
  • Profile picture of the author misterme
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    Sounds like expectations aren't being managed either. Bring your client in to get him involved, part of the team, but don't let him see you sweat. What you want to do is get him invested in the solution.
    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
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      On a huge project, get quotes from some other companies who have done these types of projects, negotiate a discount, and subcontract the work to them. You take a cut in the middle.

      Outsourcing major deal to an untested developer is a recipe for disaster.

      Get some real quotes from some real developers who handle these projects. Negotiate the discounts.

      Tell the client you miscalculated the complexity of the job and you would like to work with him to bring it in to his satisfaction. Tell him you have negotiated a discount with some other major firms on his behalf. Mark it up enough so that you can get some money in the deal.

      Tell him you will personally cover the amount that he was quoted by you already. You upmost concern is his satisfaction.

      Take your quote out of his price, use some of the money you make to cover your contractor, and learn the lesson.

      Make sure that your client knows he will find the same price range from any quality developers so you have done all you can to negotiate on his behalf once you realized you were over your head.

      You might still lose some money if you can convince him to take this route.

      If you try to just give him a shitty product, you are going to have problems. I would STOP all development by your contractor right now and have a frank conversation with the client.
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  • Profile picture of the author +newportone
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    I suggest before you do ANYTHING else visit an attorney and explain the situation and be prepared to hear that you may be advised to let the project go bankrupt and stop progress and must officially inform all parties in writing. I suggest informing your subcontractor in WRITING that the work to date is insufficient and must be corrected within so many days , if there is to be any salvaging of the contract. If the subcontractor does not respond and perform in a suitable manner within a reasonable period of time that person must be informed that they are no longer considered competent and may be liable for resulting damages.
  • Profile picture of the author Unisons
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    Thanks for the replies.

    Firstly I did asked for extra funds, and he was fine with it (not sure about his team though). There was a 50% deposit (not including extra funds), told him he could pay the extras in the second payment when it's done.

    Secondly the product isn't THAT bad. It's like fiverr clones out there, though they obviously can't match up to Fiverr in the overall feel, but well they still work.

    What I hope I can do is to explain to him that the budget he has allocated to me wasn't going to get a Fiverr type website, but instead like a Fourerr instead. Design wise it shouldn't be a BIG factor, since it can be easily modified. Functionality wise, I'm going to get some external testers to test run the hell out of it to make sure they all work.

    Now that's assuming he doesn't like it. If he does feel ok with it, and pays. I have no future interest in maintaining and adding new features for him over time and really wish to wash my hands off this project..
  • Profile picture of the author deu12000
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    In the past I had similar issues of underestimating the size of jobs. The first thing is I would always stick with the job until it was completed, even if I was breaking even. I don't think I've ever lost money, but I have broken even or worked almost for free a couple of times. If you plan on sticking around in web design at all or a related business you will want to figure out how to finish the job.

    After these hard jobs are complete I have gotten excellent referrals and have been able to sell other services.

    Nowadays if it's not something that is part of my repertoire I say no, know matter how tempted I get. I've turned down several jobs over the years because they are big time and energy wasters. I've wasted 6 months on one development project and never want to do that again. There will be other developers willing to do these jobs, but it's not for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Unisons
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    I've definitely learned my lesson here. And know what went wrong.

    Just hope everything turns out good, and wouldn't boil down to a fall out and arguments with each other.

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