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Affordable small business SEO: My $150/client plan (No WSO - No Charge :)

by AlexCN
20 replies
Hey Warriors,

I'm looking to break into local small business SEO for 2 main reasons:

1. I can see so many small businesses in my area that can use major help and are doing things VERY poorly with equally crap results (or doing absolutely nothing at all to boost their online efforts)

2. I know that I can help them

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a demand for small business seo services, the thing is, I'm just not really sure how deep that demand goes, and how much 'education' you guys and gals that are successful selling SEO services to small local businesses are normally dishing out before landing a client.

For instance: In the majority of cases, you can be relatively sure that in any medium-large sized city, the companies landing at the top of the SERPS for MAJOR KW's (ie Major Service - City | Plumber Atlanta ) are enlisting the help of some sort of SEO to get them those results.

Whether they are hiring someone in-house, hiring independent contractors or going straight to agencies mostly, I really have no idea, but its not really relevant to my overall question.

So, we know that the companies in the first 1-3 spots in the SERPS very likely are educated about SEO and see the immense value... So what about all of the other companies that are at the bottom of page 1, and beyond?

Do you guys find they have an interest in boosting their rankings at all?

Do they even care? Does it take a ton of arm twisting to get them to see the benefits of SEO for their main site?

What I wanted to do in this thread is I wanted to lay out here my 'plan of attack' and see if the experts here (or anyone with some experience landing small business SEO clients) can help me improve it, poke holes in it, perhaps chime in and tell me if they think this will work at all.

I know there are all sorts of methods to go about landing clients, and an equally large number of ways to get payed for your services.

The method I'm considering using to nab local SEO clients completely bucks what is now 'popular' in the world of Offline Marketing:

1. I am NOT planning on using 'results in advance' tactics.

2. I am not planning on hitting them (at least initially) with a 'recurring' offer (which I know right away many offliners will look at as a detriment to long terms business survival)

So anyway, here is what I'm planning on doing. Please voice your opinions if you think there are ways this plan can be improved:

I will be focusing on local businesses that are near the bottom of the SERPS (bottom of page 1 and beyond) and doing a quick 'audit' of their sites and come up with some reasons their results might be sucking so much for a given Keyword.

Again, I have been doing this in passing for some time out of sheer interest, and what I'm seeing is often time pretty surprising... and I am NOT talking about something like 'lack of backlinks' (although obviously that is another areas a lot of these small business sites could use help in)

I am talking mostly about on-page stuff. A lot of these sites are completely un-optimized with their on-page stuff - Stuff that anyone even slightly into SEO could correct for them rather quickly (ie fixing Titles/Tags etc etc tomake them more relevant to KW's that people are actually searching for).

Above and beyond quick fix 'on page' stuff, I've noticed a lot of sites ranking low are really thin on any type of content on their main pages (the pages that are getting most of the traffic) - either the page is filled with absurd 1200 x 1200 images with no tags or anything that have absolutely ZERO SEO value, or the site just looks like they put very little thought or effort into it overall, especially on the content end of things.

My 'plan of attack' is to call these businesses up and explain to them that I run a local SEO business focused on (x) niche (x being the niche they are in) and I have spent the last (hours/days) doing an audit (at no cost) of their website and I have determined that there are a few really simple fixes that I can make for them to help them increase their exposure online.

I will then explain these simple changes I can make for them will result in not only new customers for their business, but the strong possibility of one time customers that perhaps had used their services before and liked them, and wanted to go back but could not remember off the top of their heads the name and phone number of that business, will also be able to find them much more easily online.

I will tell them I will need access to their site and that the changes I'm planning to make should take not longer than 1-2days.

I will be doing a one time bundling for them (the service I am pitching) of On-page fixes + 500 words of SEO optimized content for their site. The result of both of these changes (as I will explain to them) will be a short term and long term boost in SERP rankings and customers.

The 'close' will be that big SEO agencies would charge thousands for a similar service, and they won't be getting the same level of personal support and dedication that I will be able to deliver.

I will then inform them that my normal rate for this service for new clients is $399, but in order to spread the word about my business and get more testimonials etc, for the next (x) number of new clients, I will only be charging $199.

I'm thinking the 'under $200' price point will a good fit for a lot of small companies advertising budgets, and I will push hard the fact to these businesses that I offer a level of service larger agencies can't compete with and my service is all-inclusive - $199 gets you everything - no hidden charges, no monthly fee, no games.

Each client I get, I will work hard to ensure their sites jump in the rankings at LEAST a few spots for one or more KW's during the first month and really focus on getting results for them (although I'm not really sure at this point how I will be able to 'prove' that they are getting more customers due to MY online efforts alone? Perhaps install some kind of tracking phone number on their site or something?)

The first month will be my main focus - to get them the best results I possibly can. After month 1, (and possibly sooner) I will get back in touch with them and tell them the results that I have been able to achieve for them so far (rankings etc) and maybe ask them if they have been able to notice yet more leads as a result of their website and online presence.

At this point I'm guessing they will either tell me YES or NO, NOT REALLY. For the latter group, I will then ask them if the improved website rankings they have been able to achieve, by themselves, mean anything at all to them.

If they tell me 'No' or they are unhappy with my service in any way, I just thank them for trying me out and then move on from having them as a client.

If they say 'Yes' its cool having better rankings, and better content on their site, perhaps eventually they will pay off for us, and they are happy with what I've been able to provide them with for the tiny $200 investment (this is exactly what I will do also for the group of clients that tell me "YES" they HAVE noticed more referrals from their website) I will first of all ask them for a testimonial, and secondly pitch them on an ongoing SEO service to improve their online presence in their niche over time.

The service would obviously be a monthly fee based service, consisting of KW research, back-linking, SEO content and an overall effort to improve their SERP rankings.

I'm thinking of making the ongoing fee $300-$400/ month, and again, most of that expense for the first couple of months will be dedicated to really helping them improve their rankings.

Lastly, I'm thinking of aiming for 20 clients in the first month, and then going from there.

So, that's my plan. Do you guys like it? Do you hate it? Think it will work, or will NOT work and for what reasons?

Anything I can do to improve this?

What about my price points? Am I aiming too high? Too Low?

Any and all thoughts on my plan for an 'affordable small business seo' package are greatly appreciated.

Alex
#$150 or client #affordable #affordable seo #business #charge #plan #seo #small #wso
  • Profile picture of the author BamIPD
    Scenario: I'm a business owner. You tell me I'm on the bottom of page 1 of google for "plumbing in atlanta". I know what SEO is and how it could benefit me but I haven't done anything to my site (title, image alt, etc...).

    Why do I hire you?


    This is a question I've been asking myself lately, rather than asking these clients for their business.

    Page 1 is pretty awesome if you ask me. Especially if I haven't had any type of SEO done. Why should I hire someone for $199 or $599 per month to get me higher on the page?
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    • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
      Yes. Valid Bam.

      My thinking is, if they haven't done something as simple as optimizing tags on their site, they really have no clue what they are doing SEO wise, and could use an education in what they are doing wrong and how we can come in and help them fix it.

      Maybe they don't know, maybe they just don't have time to think about it.

      That is where we, as specialists, come in and help them with the problem, for a small reasonable fee.

      As far as if they thought just being on page 1 was awesome, also educate them in that regard as well.

      I will explain to them, that in the natural search results, a site sitting in the 10 spot is getting about 2% of the total traffic for the search.

      For local search results, it's likely to be well under 2% because of the Google local 7 box.

      Once you explain to them that just being on page one in and of itself isn't really that awesome if they are only getting 1% of the traffic for a search terms, perhaps they will understand why it isn't so great?

      Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author BacklinksPlus
    Sounds like a good idea, subscribed.
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    Venom Software
    Craigslist lead scraper mailer/Linkedin Bot
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  • Profile picture of the author qu4rk
    Others will chime in here. But let me give you my advice. My experience has been this. When you target clients in the lower pay scale they are difficult to deal with. They may want 20 changes on a design project, when the contract states 2. They may call you often about other "marketing" things & try to get your advice for FREE. They may act as if that $150 or $199 is their last bit of money & get stressed about spending it & in turn stress you over the project.

    I wish you well on your project. However, there are people who would charge $2,000 - 5,000 (especially in SoCal) for the same service you are offering. Why? How much money will you make them if they get to the top spot or higher up? Jason Kerigan is good about showing that all you are asking for is a percentage of they are going to make.

    I run my business so that I only work with those types of clients. I've gone after the lower paying clients before & have always regreted it. I now tell people they should look for someone else to help them with that small project & tell them we only work with people who have "$x" budgets.

    I wish you well on you project. I hope you prove that my experience is only a limited experience and that people can have success with that share of the market.
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    • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
      No... this is great thanks for the reply. I have heard similar things before, along the same lines as what you are saying:

      "Work ONLY with high end clients, they are much less of a pain in the ass."

      I can certainly see this point of view, I'm just thinking of the angle of trying to pick the 'low hanging fruit' companies that having glaring holes in their SEO. These companies would NOT take long to help - Fixing the onpage issues I mentioned before + one or two very well researched pieces of SEO content - Enough to get their site moving in the right direction.

      I know companies are charging well over 1k for 'local seo' services, but this is really full service stuff right?- help with Google places, facebook, backlinking etc etc etc... I'm not really (yet) planning on offering that type of service, just basics to get their organic listings moving in the right direction.

      I figured my 'low price point' would be an attraction and almost make my services 'risk free' to a local business... When you start asking for 2-3k, I'm guessing any business will want to see a lot more proof elements from a more established company + expect really great results immediately - But again, I am NOT really sure that is why I'm asking

      I figure the $199 is sort of a 'foot in the door' tactic, and after month one, if you could keep on 10 of your original 20 clients at a $300 - $400 monthly pricepoint, that right there is a pretty nice recurring paycheck.

      But maybe you are right, and taking on 20 clients at a 'lower' pricepoint would mean endless calls and hassle.

      Might be better to start with 5 (if I am good enough to be able to convince them to work with me) and go from there.

      Still really interested in hearing others' take on how they operate their own local SEO businesses - lessons, problems suggestions - whatever!

      Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
        Originally Posted by AlexCN View Post

        I figured my 'low price point' would be an attraction and almost make my services 'risk free' to a local business... When you start asking for 2-3k, I'm guessing any business will want to see a lot more proof elements from a more established company + expect really great results immediately - But again, I am NOT really sure that is why I'm asking
        This has more to do with your own fears talking to you. It is simply not true that you have a hard time selling at higher price points.

        Often, the opposite is true. When you are giving something away so cheap - many people will ignore it or get skeptical. Higher prices are in themselves a statement of what you believe you are worth.

        Your price tells people about your value and how you see yourself.

        It has been much, much easier for me to sell things with higher prices and more value than when I was starting out and trying to sell for low prices.

        Besides, can you really make an impact from $199/mo? Are you going to have glowing testimonials from $199/mo?

        My post above about starting at $500/mo has NOTHING to do with convincing the client. It is so YOU can gain some confidence in selling it.

        YOU have to be convinced before you can convince a client to buy - and right now you are convinced that your value is only $199/mo.

        Go sell a few at $500/mo and you will immediately see that you can do this. You will see that you have value and people will buy you. Then - you should also immediately find ways to increase your value and prices.

        You can do it.
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        Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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        • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
          Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post


          Go sell a few at $500/mo and you will immediately see that you can do this. You will see that you have value and people will buy you. Then - you should also immediately find ways to increase your value and prices.

          You can do it.
          Again, really motivating Dan, thank so much. I'm pretty sure that you are doing a lot more than just helping me with a post like this, and showing a bunch of other offliners browsing the forum what is possible...
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          • Profile picture of the author DABK
            Low hanging fruit is appealing. But it's not necessarily cheap.

            There are many companies that make good money and spend good money that do fall into the low-hanging fruit in one area of marketing or another.

            Best Dentists in Chicago & Skokie | Office Staff Members - Dental Professionals
            shows up on page 2 for me for Chicago Dentists. It's not a small office.

            This dental office has a dozen or so people in the staff photo: Meet Our Staffs : Cosmetic Dentist : Teeth Whitening Chicago : Associates for Dental Care and they're on page 2 for the same keyword.

            Yes, I'm making the assumption that a dozen-people dental office is large enough and rich enough to want more marketing than $150 buys.
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            • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
              Originally Posted by DABK View Post

              Low hanging fruit is appealing. But it's not necessarily cheap.

              There are many companies that make good money and spend good money that do fall into the low-hanging fruit in one area of marketing or another.

              Best Dentists in Chicago & Skokie | Office Staff Members - Dental Professionals
              shows up on page 2 for me for Chicago Dentists. It's not a small office.
              Actually, for me, DentalProfessionals.com are pinned near the bottom of Page 3. By having a quick look at their site, I can see it is NOT from lack of trying.

              KW 'Chicago Dentist' is a VERY competative one, and I think their best chance is to get an expert in Google Places listings to help them land in the 7 box (which admittedly, will take lots of time and effort).

              Unfortunately, for them, they have OTHER problems besides simple SEO tasks.

              I think they probably hired an SEO service at some point to 'help' them, but whoever was 'helping' them actually had no clue what they are doing and probably ended up doing much more harm than good...

              Not sure, but there may also be a few Google penalties being thrown at the site too...

              Take a look at the title:

              <title>Chicago Dentist, Dentist Chicago, Skokie Dentist, Dentist Skokie, Cosmetic- Dentist 312-938-3999 - Dental Professionals</title>

              This is a BIG no no... a title that would have maybe worked in 2008. This is KW stuffing, and Google will see it as exactly that.

              Another big problem? Take a look at their backlink profile. They have 45% of their backlinks as Exact or very closely related anchor text!

              Ouch...

              Like you say, these guys are obviously a big office, as they have multiple DDS working there, they could really use someone that had a clue what they were doing to come in and help them.

              The sad part is, they probably have never even heard of Google penguin and probably have no clue why their rankings are suffering.

              Again though, these guys have more problems and it will take time and a big effort to straighten them out. For instance...

              This little gem is the Focal Point of their Home page:



              FREE eBook! Get yours now!

              I mean really? How 2004 of them...

              Not sure about you guys, but looking through the eyes of a prospective patient, landing on a page looking for a reliable dentist and seeing an eBook about an 'In Depth exam on Todays Dental Practices' doesn't exactly get my blood boiling

              Alex
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              • Profile picture of the author DABK
                You're making my point. They need help. Beyond the $150 mark.

                As regards what's competitive, we must have different ideas of what competitive is. (Yelp, Yellowpages, or such at the top, to me, indicates not competitive. I've bypassed them before... on Chicago + industry or product keyword with not that much effort.)

                Originally Posted by AlexCN View Post

                Actually, for me, DentalProfessionals.com are pinned near the bottom of Page 3. By having a quick look at their site, I can see it is NOT from lack of trying.

                KW 'Chicago Dentist' is a VERY competative one, and I think their best chance is to get an expert in Google Places listings to help them land in the 7 box (which admittedly, will take lots of time and effort).

                Unfortunately, for them, they have OTHER problems besides simple SEO tasks.

                I think they probably hired an SEO service at some point to 'help' them, but whoever was 'helping' them actually had no clue what they are doing and probably ended up doing much more harm than good...

                Not sure, but there may also be a few Google penalties being thrown at the site too...

                Take a look at the title:

                <title>Chicago Dentist, Dentist Chicago, Skokie Dentist, Dentist Skokie, Cosmetic- Dentist 312-938-3999 - Dental Professionals</title>

                This is a BIG no no... a title that would have maybe worked in 2008. This is KW stuffing, and Google will see it as exactly that.

                Another big problem? Take a look at their backlink profile. They have 45% of their backlinks as Exact or very closely related anchor text!

                Ouch...

                Like you say, these guys are obviously a big office, as they have multiple DDS working there, they could really use someone that had a clue what they were doing to come in and help them.

                The sad part is, they probably have never even heard of Google penguin and probably have no clue why their rankings are suffering.

                Again though, these guys have more problems and it will take time and a big effort to straighten them out. For instance...

                This little gem is the Focal Point of their Home page:



                FREE eBook! Get yours now!

                I mean really? How 2004 of them...

                Not sure about you guys, but looking through the eyes of a prospective patient, landing on a page looking for a reliable dentist and seeing an eBook about an 'In Depth exam on Todays Dental Practices' doesn't exactly get my blood boiling

                Alex
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                • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
                  Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                  As regards what's competitive, we must have different ideas of what competitive is. (Yelp, Yellowpages, or such at the top, to me, indicates not competitive. I've bypassed them before... on Chicago + industry or product keyword with not that much effort.)
                  This:

                  [chicago dentist]
                  High
                  5,400
                  5,400
                  $16.24

                  As well as the fact that a lot of the top listings already have a lot of relevant backlinks pointing at them, and lots are decently optimized for KW "Chicago Dentist" and already have a lot of age and trust with Google is what led me to believe the term was a competitive one.

                  Perhaps I am way off?

                  I have done a bit of local site ranking, but admittedly not a ton. It is my understanding, however, (and from my won experience as well) that these type of directory sites often get a HUGE advantage over other types organic listings for whatever reason (some people say Google does this on purpose to force everyone to use adwords).

                  Those directory listings also already have quite a bit of pagerank and page authority...

                  But yeah. If you are telling me there is a relatively 'easy' way to overtake those types of listings, I would LOVE to hear your game-plan, either here on this thread, or by PM if you don't want to broadcast the whole thing publicly.

                  Alex
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                  • Profile picture of the author DABK
                    It's not 5,400; it can't be. Look at dentist Chicago (less than 500) and Chicago dentists (260) and New York dentist (exact match).

                    $16.24? Look at Chicago auto insurance... it's been at $50+ for over 2 years (maybe longer, but I didn't look before). Now it's $88.22 a pop.

                    What makes it not so competitive: the top 3 are not optimizing well (on-page) and have few links (one of them's trying... they've got someone doing crappy backlinking for them: 8 out of 10 deleted ... within the week of creation.

                    A handful of backlinks from pr1 and pr2 pages would place you ahead of all of them.

                    Originally Posted by AlexCN View Post

                    This:

                    [chicago dentist]
                    High
                    5,400
                    5,400
                    $16.24

                    As well as the fact that a lot of the top listings already have a lot of relevant backlinks pointing at them, and lots are decently optimized for KW "Chicago Dentist" and already have a lot of age and trust with Google is what led me to believe the term was a competitive one.

                    Perhaps I am way off?

                    I have done a bit of local site ranking, but admittedly not a ton. It is my understanding, however, (and from my won experience as well) that these type of directory sites often get a HUGE advantage over other types organic listings for whatever reason (some people say Google does this on purpose to force everyone to use adwords).

                    Those directory listings also already have quite a bit of pagerank and page authority...

                    But yeah. If you are telling me there is a relatively 'easy' way to overtake those types of listings, I would LOVE to hear your game-plan, either here on this thread, or by PM if you don't want to broadcast the whole thing publicly.

                    Alex
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                    • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
                      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                      It's not 5,400; it can't be. Look at dentist Chicago (less than 500) and Chicago dentists (260) and New York dentist (exact match).

                      $16.24? Look at Chicago auto insurance... it's been at $50+ for over 2 years (maybe longer, but I didn't look before). Now it's $88.22 a pop.

                      What makes it not so competitive: the top 3 are not optimizing well (on-page) and have few links (one of them's trying... they've got someone doing crappy backlinking for them: 8 out of 10 deleted ... within the week of creation.

                      A handful of backlinks from pr1 and pr2 pages would place you ahead of all of them.
                      Yeah DABK-

                      After examining the sites at the top, I would have to agree with you that nabbing a top 3 listing wouldn't be TOO difficult (though I still think the Yelp listing would be a bear to take over - but there is only one way to find out!)

                      The site you must be talking about is chicagodentistonline.com?

                      Yeah, I'm not sure what the hell they are doing over there. I went to visit the site and my spyware caught them trying to upload 2 malicious trojans to ,my PC...

                      I think they are also getting quite a bit of benefit right now in the rankings from their extremely over optimized backlink profile.

                      They have nearly 70% of their backlinks containing 'chicago dentist' or a very close variation.

                      They are going to get nailed in the next penguin update for sure. That and the fact that like you say, they aren't 100% optimized does leave the possibility of elbowing them out.

                      As far as the [5400] local match, I was just going by the GKWT. And yes, I was pretty surprised when I saw that number - seemed excessive. Perhaps it is.

                      I wasn't planning on getting clients in Chicago (more local to me) but that DOES look like an attractive opportunity to bring on one of the dentists in the 11-14 slot by letting them know about the 'wide open' landscape at the top 3....

                      Just sayin'...
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by qu4rk View Post

      Others will chime in here. But let me give you my advice. My experience has been this. When you target clients in the lower pay scale they are difficult to deal with. They may want 20 changes on a design project, when the contract states 2. They may call you often about other "marketing" things & try to get your advice for FREE. They may act as if that $150 or $199 is their last bit of money & get stressed about spending it & in turn stress you over the project.
      This is so true.

      If $200 is all people can afford for marketing, they probably have a few issues:

      1. They want to control everything themselves - they hate turning things over to others to do the work for them therefore their business is very limited because of their own shortcomings. No one can be an expert at everything. This guarantees they will try to manage everything you do.

      2. They don't have enough clients - this means that they probably have a lot of open time in their day to try and learn/handle all of the things that they really should turn over to others. They have a lot of time to tell you how to do your work.

      You will love higher paying clients because:

      1. They know they don't know everything and will trust you more. They will pay you and let you work.

      2. They are too busy servicing their clients and running their business to try and tell you how to do everything.

      3. You will make more money so you can deliver a higher value product and will feel much better about it.

      I know you are just starting out so - start at $500/mo until you get a few clients. Then immediately raise the price again and provide them even more value.

      Adding more value is much better than low prices.
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      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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      • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        This is so true.

        If $200 is all people can afford for marketing, they probably have a few issues:

        1. They want to control everything themselves - they hate turning things over to others to do the work for them therefore their business is very limited because of their own shortcomings. No one can be an expert at everything. This guarantees they will try to manage everything you do.

        2. They don't have enough clients - this means that they probably have a lot of open time in their day to try and learn/handle all of the things that they really should turn over to others. They have a lot of time to tell you how to do your work.

        You will love higher paying clients because:

        1. They know they don't know everything and will trust you more. They will pay you and let you work.

        2. They are too busy servicing their clients and running their business to try and tell you how to do everything.

        3. You will make more money so you can deliver a higher value product and will feel much better about it.

        I know you are just starting out so - start at $500/mo until you get a few clients. Then immediately raise the price again and provide them even more value.

        Adding more value is much better than low prices.
        Thanks for all the input Dan. This is really great. I think you have shifted my outlook on 'the Simple Seo' that I can provide as a service 180 Degrees with this one post.

        Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author maricelu
      Originally Posted by qu4rk View Post

      Jason Kerigan
      I guess you are talking about Jason Kanigan
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      I have no signature.

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  • Profile picture of the author rizy
    @Alex
    Local SEO would be extremely hard if it means only optimizing their webpage and write 1 article, and why should I keep paying you every month when you are not holding any of my properties kind of hostage? And your target market of the end of page one is horrible, it looks to me you are caring only about yourself.

    Listen man Local SEO is much easier then Organic SEO, but you must offer a more complete package, you should hire KungFuBacklinks for that, or offer a similar package.

    Your Prices Should Be: (Every Tiny, Small, Medium, Big businesses can afford this except one man army craigslisters)
    Set-Up Fee: 500
    Monthly Fee: 200-500 (you choose) You can also do a Seasonal Fee, charge them every 3 months.

    Good Luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
      Originally Posted by rizy View Post

      @Alex
      Local SEO would be extremely hard if it means only optimizing their webpage and write 1 article, and why should I keep paying you every month when you are not holding any of my properties kind of hostage? And your target market of the end of page one is horrible, it looks to me you are caring only about yourself.

      Listen man Local SEO is much easier then Organic SEO, but you must offer a more complete package, you should hire KungFuBacklinks for that, or offer a similar package.

      Your Prices Should Be: (Every Tiny, Small, Medium, Big businesses can afford this except one man army craigslisters)
      Set-Up Fee: 500
      Monthly Fee: 200-500 (you choose) You can also do a Seasonal Fee, charge them every 3 months.

      Good Luck!
      Hey Rizy,

      Thanks for this. Your idea of the pricing seems to be 'on point' with what others are chiming in and saying, so that part is now a done deal for me.

      Actually, as far as the 'ongoing' service you are reading too much into my long term plan that wasn't there and I hadn't really layed out...

      The simple on-page stuff and SEO content was just a primer to get their rankings moving in the right direction for an affordable price. Those 2 things were not ALL I was planning on including in the monthly fee once I take them on permanently as a client.

      I planned on adding backlinking and maybe a few other things to get rankings even better and adding in more KW targeting etc etc.

      As far as 'holding them hostage to me as a provider', you are correct. That is certainly NOT my primary focus (at least initially). My primary focus over the first couple of months is to get them results so they are happy to keep me as their SEO provider, not feel as though they are now handcuffed to me...

      ...but maybe you are right and that is the wrong approach.

      I think that it is kind of difficult for an individual or small SEO company to hold a client hostage with JUST seo services alone... yeah I guess you could tell them something like "If you fire me, your rankings disappear."

      Maybe you could carry that threat out... maybe you couldn't, maybe they would not care either way if they were intent on firing you for whatever reason...

      I think that tethering principle would work much better if you are providing something like list building for them, where if you leave, they are actually potentially losing REAL customers...

      I'm not really wanting to focus on that aspect of local yet.

      Any other ideas of how just and SEO service could 'hold them hostage' to our services I would certainly be open to listening to!

      You Said:

      "And your target market of the end of page one is horrible, it looks to me you are caring only about yourself."

      Ok... can you explain this a bit better? Is it better to concentrate on the MIDDLE of page one and the TOP of page one? I would think people at the top would already be happy with whoever is doing their SEO because they are already getting top rankings?

      Also, I'm being selfish? I don't get that... because I am not allowing everyone an equal opportunity to take advantage of my awesome SEO services? (I don't think that is really what you meant, but I will just imagine it's what you meant for now )

      Lastly, I like your idea with the Kung-Fu backlinks service. Have you used them, or know of people that have gotten results from them?

      It looks like a pretty nice package that you could offer to a client IF you were sure it would help them...

      I see it deals with Google Places listings (which is awesome) but they are mostly focused on building out the sites themselves from scratch.

      Thinking it would probably be very difficult to convince a client with an (x) year old website to just completely ditch it in favor of something totally new...

      But perhaps Kung-Fu Backlinks can just implement their service for an already existing client website...

      I will have to get in touch with them and find out more

      Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author rizy
        Originally Posted by AlexCN View Post

        Hey Rizy,

        Thanks for this. Your idea of the pricing seems to be 'on point' with what others are chiming in and saying, so that part is now a done deal for me.

        Actually, as far as the 'ongoing' service you are reading too much into my long term plan that wasn't there and I hadn't really layed out...

        The simple on-page stuff and SEO content was just a primer to get their rankings moving in the right direction for an affordable price. Those 2 things were not ALL I was planning on including in the monthly fee once I take them on permanently as a client.

        I planned on adding backlinking and maybe a few other things to get rankings even better and adding in more KW targeting etc etc.

        As far as 'holding them hostage to me as a provider', you are correct. That is certainly NOT my primary focus (at least initially). My primary focus over the first couple of months is to get them results so they are happy to keep me as their SEO provider, not feel as though they are now handcuffed to me...

        ...but maybe you are right and that is the wrong approach.

        I think that it is kind of difficult for an individual or small SEO company to hold a client hostage with JUST seo services alone... yeah I guess you could tell them something like "If you fire me, your rankings disappear."

        Maybe you could carry that threat out... maybe you couldn't, maybe they would not care either way if they were intent on firing you for whatever reason...

        I think that tethering principle would work much better if you are providing something like list building for them, where if you leave, they are actually potentially losing REAL customers...

        I'm not really wanting to focus on that aspect of local yet.

        Any other ideas of how just and SEO service could 'hold them hostage' to our services I would certainly be open to listening to!

        You Said:

        "And your target market of the end of page one is horrible, it looks to me you are caring only about yourself."

        Ok... can you explain this a bit better? Is it better to concentrate on the MIDDLE of page one and the TOP of page one? I would think people at the top would already be happy with whoever is doing their SEO because they are already getting top rankings?

        Also, I'm being selfish? I don't get that... because I am not allowing everyone an equal opportunity to take advantage of my awesome SEO services? (I don't think that is really what you meant, but I will just imagine it's what you meant for now )

        Lastly, I like your idea with the Kung-Fu backlinks service. Have you used them, or know of people that have gotten results from them?

        It looks like a pretty nice package that you could offer to a client IF you were sure it would help them...

        I see it deals with Google Places listings (which is awesome) but they are mostly focused on building out the sites themselves from scratch.

        Thinking it would probably be very difficult to convince a client with an (x) year old website to just completely ditch it in favor of something totally new...

        But perhaps Kung-Fu Backlinks can just implement their service for an already existing client website...

        I will have to get in touch with them and find out more

        Alex
        Lol Alex, my bad I said it in a wrong way.

        I carelessly used the word selfish, but what I meant by that was that, since they are already at page one, you are barely going to help them, you are looking for easy clients and less usage of your time, even though on second thought it takes a lot of work to bring someone from bottom to top. What I really mean is that buddy you shouldn't think in those terms, instead you should only think of which industry you want to target, because Alex even if a plumber is at page 20, with the right local/map seo it is extremely possible to bring them up.

        I, like many, am an avid searcher on google, thing is organic search results are dying, especially when it comes to local search, maps come up and nearby results come up, video comes up, organic is at bottom and quite frankly I don't know who would even click those, and sites like YellowPages, Manta, are taking the rest of the space.

        As far as pricing, I think its okay even 199 is okay, I understand which terms your thinking in. But setting up a package like the one I explain below costs and takes lots of time, so 500-900 setup fee is a must. After that 199 is okay.

        Here are somethings you gotta do, and no I have never used KungFu but I have learned many of the following from reading them.

        Citations: Google Plus Local, Yelp, Manta, (at least 5)
        Make sure company info is same everywhere, address, phone, and others.
        Geo Targetting of some pics on these profiles.
        Creating 5 videos initially and 1 video every month, and geo target this as well. Ex: there is a thai restaurant: You can create videos with titles like 'Thai Rice in City' Tasty Soups in City' Thai Chicken Noodles in City' Same thing with a dentist, everybody has a list of services they provide. How you geo-target them is by putting their address and phone number in the video.
        To be honest with you this is all you need, if you really think content is important you should do a Press-Release of 'Thai Restaurant in City'

        Lol if you offered this for under 200 a month, I would even outsource the work to you and many warriors too, I think these methods together create a very strong point to google for ranking in maps! Somebody here did this for a Verizon store in a big city like Hunington Beach, and it worked.
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        • Profile picture of the author AlexCN
          Originally Posted by rizy View Post

          Citations: Google Plus Local, Yelp, Manta, (at least 5)
          Make sure company info is same everywhere, address, phone, and others.
          Geo Targetting of some pics on these profiles.
          Creating 5 videos initially and 1 video every month, and geo target this as well. Ex: there is a thai restaurant: You can create videos with titles like 'Thai Rice in City' Tasty Soups in City' Thai Chicken Noodles in City' Same thing with a dentist, everybody has a list of services they provide. How you geo-target them is by putting their address and phone number in the video.
          To be honest with you this is all you need, if you really think content is important you should do a Press-Release of 'Thai Restaurant in City'

          Lol if you offered this for under 200 a month, I would even outsource the work to you and many warriors too, I think these methods together create a very strong point to google for ranking in maps! Somebody here did this for a Verizon store in a big city like Hunington Beach, and it worked.
          Thanks again for all the input Rizy. You've listed some really valid points.

          Let me say this. As far as Google Local and Google Places, YES you are 100% correct, they are an entirely different animal from the organic results, and takes an entirely different skill set to rank well in.

          That is why I was going to offer basic organic improvements, at least to start, for a reasonable fee.

          Google Places and citations and video ranking and all that other stuff is certainly something that could be worked on for the client AFTER you had gained their trust and yes, for a higher fee than $199 per month (and no, I have no interest offering all of those services to warriors for $199 per month - maybe at another point when I gain more expertise with them, but not now).

          As far as your contention that for local, organic search is completely dead, I would just have to disagree there. Yes, it MAY be headed that way in the future, but its not there yet.

          There are thousands and millions of local KW's that still have organic listings outranking the Google places listings - Not just for 'Major Service Provider' but also for 'Provided Service'...

          Just as a quick example, take the KW '24 hour plumber chicago', there are Organic listings on top of the 7box. Are you saying these organic results are not getting clicks?

          I find that very hard to believe.

          As I said, there are millions of similar KW's that have organic listings outranking Google Local, and in lots of cases, there is NO google local results at all for certain KW's.

          Those are the type of organic results I want to go after for my clients, NOT the ones plastered behind Google Places.

          Also, I don't have any firm proof of this yet, but I believe that if there is a particular KW search that is dominated by Google Places, I believe that if you create a site that is relevant enough, and has enough backlink juice to the KW, google will eventually create a spot for an organic listing for your site IN FRONT of GOogle places...

          Again, Google Places has lots of power (obviously) but doesn't quite completely rule to roost (at least not yet)
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