Frustrated Calling

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DPMJennifer
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So me and my partner have been calling. Our target market is different types of contractors (electricians, plumbers, landscapers, paving, etc). The problem is we can't get a hold of anyone. Out of 150 calls today we spoke to 11 people. We did get one appointment out of that 11. Yesterday we called 200 and spoke to 20, got one taker. Monday and Tuesday we called about 200 and talked to 10 people, one appointment.

While I definitely think the conversion rate of the people we actually talk to is not bad, should we try to concentrate on some other niche? Are we calling at the wrong times? We normally call 8-10 and 4-6

It's frustrating because we finally got the nerve up to call and just do it yet we can't actually talk to anyone. Is this normal?
#calling #frustrated
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Jason Kanigan
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    Your numbers are low, but you have no control over them except the time you actually put into calling.

    Tomorrow you could call the same people at the same times and get a totally different result. The key is consistency.

    Of those decision makers you can't reach today, are you playing it smart? Do you call the gatekeeper right back and ask when a better time to connect with them would be? And then schedule that callback? Sometimes they'll give you a time. Sometimes they'll say keep trying. But filling your calendar with high probability callback times is the way to beating these averages.

    Remember:

    Half the people you call won't be available (on average).

    Half the people who do pick up the phone can't talk right now (on average).

    So at best you'd expect 1/4 dials to reach a decision maker who can talk to you today. And that's an average--what you get if you make dials day in, day out.

    What to work on is the 20-25% of DMs who do answer their phone and can talk to you today. And then there's how you start your calls. Most are started so badly there IS no rest of the call...so now you're down to 1-2% actual conversations from dials made. Yeah.

    Review this. All of it.
    • Profile picture of the author DPMJennifer
      DPMJennifer
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      Thank you Jason. I'm reading through everything right now.
    • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
      Matt Lee
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      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      Your numbers are low, but you have no control over them except the time you actually put into calling.

      Tomorrow you could call the same people at the same times and get a totally different result. The key is consistency.

      Of those decision makers you can't reach today, are you playing it smart? Do you call the gatekeeper right back and ask when a better time to connect with them would be? And then schedule that callback? Sometimes they'll give you a time. Sometimes they'll say keep trying. But filling your calendar with high probability callback times is the way to beating these averages.

      Remember:

      Half the people you call won't be available (on average).

      Half the people who do pick up the phone can't talk right now (on average).

      So at best you'd expect 1/4 dials to reach a decision maker who can talk to you today. And that's an average--what you get if you make dials day in, day out.

      What to work on is the 20-25% of DMs who do answer their phone and can talk to you today. And then there's how you start your calls. Most are started so badly there IS no rest of the call...so now you're down to 1-2% actual conversations from dials made. Yeah.

      Review this. All of it.
      Really good advice here. Jason knows his stuff for sho!
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Joe Stewart
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    Originally Posted by DPMJennifer View Post

    So me and my partner have been calling. Our target market is different types of contractors (electricians, plumbers, landscapers, paving, etc). The problem is we can't get a hold of anyone. Out of 150 calls today we spoke to 11 people. We did get one appointment out of that 11. Yesterday we called 200 and spoke to 20, got one taker. Monday and Tuesday we called about 200 and talked to 10 people, one appointment.

    While I definitely think the conversion rate of the people we actually talk to is not bad, should we try to concentrate on some other niche? Are we calling at the wrong times? We normally call 8-10 and 4-6

    It's frustrating because we finally got the nerve up to call and just do it yet we can't actually talk to anyone. Is this normal?

    I've done a lot of business with these industries and I can tell you from experience that you have to catch them early or you may not catch them at all.

    These guys work out on jobsites and don't stay in the office most days. They're already on site at 8:00 most of the time. In the afternoon most of them go straight home from the job sites. You may want to try calling earlier, though I do believe some states frown on calling before 8:00 AM. I do it anyway, but not before 7:30.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Jason Kanigan
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      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      I've done a lot of business with these industries and I can tell you from experience that you have to catch them early or you may not catch them at all.

      These guys work out on jobsites and don't stay in the office most days. They're already on site at 8:00 most of the time. In the afternoon most of them go straight home from the job sites. You may want to try calling earlier, though I do believe some states frown on calling before 8:00 AM. I do it anyway, but not before 7:30.
      Good point. I wrote a blog entry about calling trades that I'll paste in here.

      **

      I get this question frequently: "When should I call tradespeople?"

      It took me a year to understand this, working as a credit manager for a national electrical wholesaler, but your typical tradesperson is halfway up a ladder, juggling a tool in one hand a the cell phone in the other when you call. Later on, I worked in trades myself--running a metal fab shop and then a custom construction business--and learned first-hand. They do not have an easy time of it.

      If they're not working, they're not making money and they know it. Not the same picture as an office employee, is it? So what they want is, as fast as they can and as early as they can in the morning, to be out on a jobsite. Getting paid for doing what they do: paint, electrical, insulation, stonework, or whatever.

      That's what you're competing with. It's frequently "a bad time" when you call; they're tied up with technical work.

      Now many tradespeople like to start early, 7AM and even earlier, and be done by 2PM or 3PM. It's a different lifestyle than office work. So this means when it's really early in the day for us, they've probably already been on the job for an hour or so. You shouldn't call before 8AM, but right after can be effective.

      Also in the afternoon, after 3PM. Keep in mind they'll probably be tired. Which leads to the second point:
      This will probably be a two-step process.

      ALWAYS open with "Is this a bad time to talk?" You are being considerate. You know they might be lying on their back under a house, fiddling with a voltmeter.

      Expect that it is going to be a bad time. This is the only case where I recommend attempting to schedule a discussion call time. When they confirm it is not a good time to talk, I say something like:

      "Okay. I realize you're probably in the middle of a job, so let's pick a better time when you'll be free. When would work best for you?"

      Note I did NOT go into why I called, what I do, what the benefits are of working with me, etc.

      They may ask that. Keep it short: "I want to talk with you about getting you more customers. Won't take long. A lot of my trades clients want me to call after 3 or 4PM. Would that work for you?"

      And then calendar the callback and do it. Any questions?
  • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
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    If catching these contractors on the phone is difficult, does email work any better?
  • Profile picture of the author DPMJennifer
    DPMJennifer
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    Thank you so much everyone. Can you tell me, is leaving a message a waste of time? Normally we don't and just call back.
    • Profile picture of the author misterme
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      Originally Posted by DPMJennifer View Post

      Thank you so much everyone. Can you tell me, is leaving a message a waste of time? Normally we don't and just call back.
      Let me discourage you from doing anything.

      Leaving a message will work... sometimes.

      Doesn't it really depend on if any one of them listens to the message?

      Which they should because they're hoping it's about getting work.

      But then doesn't it depend on what you say in that message?

      And then doesn't it depend on if they happen to want to respond to your message?

      And that would depend on what's happening with them at that moment and if they're somewhere where they want to act on your message?

      So isn't a lot of this really dependent on several things?

      Sure is.

      So now the short answer is: yes, leaving a message can work if you leave the right message when the circumstances are right.

      So now work backwards from there and ask yourself, what circumstances would have to exist, and how can you identify them so you can know who to call?
      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
        Jason Kanigan
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        Originally Posted by misterme View Post

        Let me discourage you from doing anything.

        Leaving a message will work... sometimes.

        Doesn't it really depend on if any one of them listens to the message?

        Which they should because they're hoping it's about getting work.

        But then doesn't it depend on what you say in that message?

        And then doesn't it depend on if they happen to want to respond to your message?

        And that would depend on what's happening with them at that moment and if they're somewhere where they want to act on your message?

        So isn't a lot of this really dependent on several things?

        Sure is.

        So now the short answer is: yes, leaving a message can work if you leave the right message when the circumstances are right.

        So now work backwards from there and ask yourself, what circumstances would have to exist, and how can you identify them so you can know who to call?
        Good post.

        There are many factors at work here. You can leave the best message in the world but if they receive it when they are tired and annoyed, it's useless.

        In general I go for the conversation over leaving a message. A few cases have come up where the message is helpful, but they're generally with office type prospects.
  • Profile picture of the author akash47
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    Do the thing Will Smith did in Pursuit of Happiness and call them at a time when they can actually take the time to talk to you. Be assertive instead of apologetic.
  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
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    A lot of great points and info in the replies in this thread however, I'd like to expound on the "Tradesman" thing.

    The issues you're dealing with in the construction industry are that a very large percentage or merely that, just tradesmen. Yes many have taken the steps to be and LLC or maybe even a CORP however many of them are more suited to stay the guy who's up the ladder, hammering nails, cleaning the job site, so on so forth.

    Many times they survive on a job by job basis without the capacity or ability to do more then a single job at a given time and because of that these tradesmen just have a job and not really a business.

    You don't want these types of clients, I encourage you to drill down your prospecting list by finding construction companies that do at minimum 500K to 1 Million a year gross sales. Most construction firms with these sales figures have at least a couple of sales people and are operating like a for profit business and a construction company.

    Focusing on tradespeople is why you can't reach any one because as mentioned previously in this thread they are all on the job site doing the installs. They are up early and on the job hammering away.
    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
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      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      A lot of great points and info in the replies in this thread however, I'd like to expound on the "Tradesman" thing.

      The issues you're dealing with in the construction industry are that a very large percentage or merely that, just tradesmen. Yes many have taken the steps to be and LLC or maybe even a CORP however many of them are more suited to stay the guy who's up the ladder, hammering nails, cleaning the job site, so on so forth.

      Many times they survive on a job by job basis without the capacity or ability to do more then a single job at a given time and because of that these tradesmen just have a job and not really a business.

      You don't want these types of clients, I encourage you to drill down your prospecting list by finding construction companies that do at minimum 500K to 1 Million a year gross sales. Most construction firms with these sales figures have at least a couple of sales people and are operating like a for profit business and a construction company.

      Focusing on tradespeople is why you can't reach any one because as mentioned previously in this thread they are all on the job site doing the installs. They are up early and on the job hammering away.

      This is spot on. With the exception of a 5 year hiatus, I've been dealing with different elements of this massive market for many years and I can tell you from experience that it's either feast or famine. These guys live job to job. My Dad was a carpenter too, and I recall him being laid off for weeks at a time and sometimes having to travel out of town for long stretches to find work.

      It's also very seasonal. Much of the country slows down big time during the winter, but then starts picking up again in the spring, usually more so after tax time. Then you really have a hard time catching them in because they're out early.

      This was a lot different before the wars and the recession. I was doing REALLY well back in 2002, but the entire industry has gradually changed drastically. Some companies that were running multiple crews at one time are now a 2-3 man operation.

      Their needs dropped drastically. I've had many of them tell me that what they're doing now is allowing the bigger companies (like Rus pointed out) to have the bigger projects and they're going around and picking up the smaller stuff. Less stress, less expenses, lower payroll, BUT they still have a comparable bottom line at the end of the year.

      Good for them, but not so good for those offering supplies and services.

      I've seen some of my major competitors online, including where I used to work, now casting a wider net to offer products to more related markets.

      Actually, in the past decade I've seen two of the biggest suppliers in the industry sell out. That's never a good sign. I've also seen manufacturers sell out to larger firms, merge with competitors AND even cut out dealers and start dealing directly with end users! I could say how I REALLY feel about that but I'll restrain myself. :-(

      Honestly, I've built a base of good customers that I've enjoyed dealing with off and on for many years, so I'll likely hang around in the industry for at least awhile longer, but I'm currently looking into other alternatives that are more stable.

      My advice is to move on to a different market, or at least don't make this one your primary focus.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
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        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

        This is spot on. With the exception of a 5 year hiatus, I've been dealing with different elements of this massive market for many years and I can tell you from experience that it's either feast or famine. These guys live job to job. My Dad was a carpenter too, and I recall him being laid off for weeks at a time and sometimes having to travel out of town for long stretches to find work.

        It's also very seasonal. Much of the country slows down big time during the winter, but then starts picking up again in the spring, usually more so after tax time. Then you really have a hard time catching them in because they're out early.

        This was a lot different before the wars and the recession. I was doing REALLY well back in 2002, but the entire industry has gradually changed drastically. Some companies that were running multiple crews at one time are now a 2-3 man operation.

        Their needs dropped drastically. I've had many of them tell me that what they're doing now is allowing the bigger companies (like Rus pointed out) to have the bigger projects and they're going around and picking up the smaller stuff. Less stress, less expenses, lower payroll, BUT they still have a comparable bottom line at the end of the year.

        Good for them, but not so good for those offering supplies and services.

        I've seen some of my major competitors online, including where I used to work, now casting a wider net to offer products to more related markets.

        Actually, in the past decade I've seen two of the biggest suppliers in the industry sell out. That's never a good sign. I've also seen manufacturers sell out to larger firms, merge with competitors AND even cut out dealers and start dealing directly with end users! I could say how I REALLY feel about that but I'll restrain myself. :-(

        Honestly, I've built a base of good customers that I've enjoyed dealing with off and on for many years, so I'll likely hang around in the industry for at least awhile longer, but I'm currently looking into other alternatives that are more stable.

        My advice is to move on to a different market, or at least don't make this one your primary focus.
        With office type prospects you might have an easier time, but with chiropractors, dentists, orthodontists etc. you'll continue to run into this issue. Most people never bother to call back and find out what a better time would be. By doing that and booking those second round calls, you'll be outperforming just about everyone else.

        And think about it this way (I do)...it's tough to get ahold of these people, yes. So how much competition do you think you'll have when you actually start getting some momentum and reaching these folks?
        • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
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          Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

          With office type prospects you might have an easier time, but with chiropractors, dentists, orthodontists etc. you'll continue to run into this issue. Most people never bother to call back and find out what a better time would be. By doing that and booking those second round calls, you'll be outperforming just about everyone else.

          And think about it this way (I do)...it's tough to get ahold of these people, yes. So how much competition do you think you'll have when you actually start getting some momentum and reaching these folks?
          This is what we are attempting as well. In addition to the owner (the dentist, doctor, vet, etc...) we are also trying to interface with an office manager as well (if there is one). But this is only because our price points may be within limits of what amounts they are authorized to purchase on their own. Definitely a secondary approach, preferable to have the conversation with the principle.
        • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
          Joe Stewart
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          Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

          With office type prospects you might have an easier time, but with chiropractors, dentists, orthodontists etc. you'll continue to run into this issue. Most people never bother to call back and find out what a better time would be. By doing that and booking those second round calls, you'll be outperforming just about everyone else.

          And think about it this way (I do)...it's tough to get ahold of these people, yes. So how much competition do you think you'll have when you actually start getting some momentum and reaching these folks?
          Definitely not worth arguing over. As I said, I've been in this for nearly 16 years, but some people may have a different experience, though I seriously doubt it.

          I rarely leave messages unless they tell me that's the only way they'll return a call or if I try several times and simply can't get through. At that point it's "no harm, no foul". Nothing to lose.

          I rarely send emails. I've found many of these individuals tend to be extremely loyal to doing business locally, as much as possible. I've had more than one person tell me that anytime I sent a price quote on a product they'd print it and take to their local guy, who'd then match it. They could get the same price and not have to pay shipping. I don't do that anymore.

          Also, this market is ULTRA competitive if you're offering everyday supplies and services, which is what I do. There is money in it, but it's a real challenge and it's very inconsistent. If I were starting over from scratch I wouldn't do it.

          Of course, everyone's experience will vary depending on what kind of product or service they're offering.

          I'll just say "good luck".
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  • Profile picture of the author Huskerdarren
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    Get Claude Whitacre's Kindle book on Sales Prospecting on Amazon for $2.99. It is excellent and it will teach you how to prospect in order to set appointments for yourself. It's really good stuff that I haven't read elsewhere.
  • Profile picture of the author Gladiator
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    I don't know what kind of clients you are trying to call and close. But you are doing it the way it has to be done. Pick up the phone, have a stack of leads on your desk and dial and pitch and make some call backs. If they are not there move on the next lead, you have to call new leads everyday, it redundant and it gets tiring, frustrating and sometimes discouraging but once you get a deal You will get energized and things get better from there!

    Yes sometimes it takes hundreds of calls to get a deal that is because it's a combination of closing ability-talent and numbers games. Of course the quality of the leads but I believe it's more you wanting to get a deal that makes you a success!

    I don't know why many here make a big deal about closing. They Recommend to buy this book or this course or whatever, In fact I don't think that it has that much to do with IM and this forum in general. It's about hard work and just doing it! For those of you that have experience in this know what I'm saying:-)
  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
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    What are you selling?
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaf5280
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    Originally Posted by DPMJennifer View Post

    So me and my partner have been calling. Our target market is different types of contractors (electricians, plumbers, landscapers, paving, etc). The problem is we can't get a hold of anyone. Out of 150 calls today we spoke to 11 people. We did get one appointment out of that 11. Yesterday we called 200 and spoke to 20, got one taker. Monday and Tuesday we called about 200 and talked to 10 people, one appointment.

    While I definitely think the conversion rate of the people we actually talk to is not bad, should we try to concentrate on some other niche? Are we calling at the wrong times? We normally call 8-10 and 4-6

    It's frustrating because we finally got the nerve up to call and just do it yet we can't actually talk to anyone. Is this normal?
    You are playing the game of numbers, so keep calling high volumes and up your game to 300 per day- 1500 calls per week. 20 to 1 appointment isn't that bad of a ratio.

    As a former contractor I can say we got swamped at 8am until 6pm with running the business, if you call me you had better be a material suppler or my crew. These people are busy running their companies, period.

    If I were to cold call these businesses and that was my only method, I would try 7-8am, 12-1pm, 6-8pm, and all day Saturday and possibly Sunday during the least busy times. The next option is to network and develop referrals from contacts that you already made, this will get you in the door quicker. hope that helps some.
    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
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      Originally Posted by Shaf5280 View Post

      You are playing the game of numbers, so keep calling high volumes and up your game to 300 per day- 1500 calls per week. 20 to 1 appointment isn't that bad of a ratio.

      As a former contractor I can say we got swamped at 8am until 6pm with running the business, if you call me you had better be a material suppler or my crew. These people are busy running their companies, period.

      If I were to cold call these businesses and that was my only method, I would try 7-8am, 12-1pm, 6-8pm, and all day Saturday and possibly Sunday during the least busy times. The next option is to network and develop referrals from contacts that you already made, this will get you in the door quicker. hope that helps some.

      This^^^^

      300 calls per day is hardcore. I'm usually pretty tired after half that. I like to do three 2 hour sets. Some people do more, some less. That's my "sweet spot".

      I wouldn't call on weekends either. We tried that once where I used to work and lost a few good customers. A lot of these guys work from home offices and you may wake him, his wife or both up.

      I suppose if they're cold calling and have nothing to lose it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but I'd never, ever bother an established customer in this niche on the weekend.
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  • Profile picture of the author maricelu
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    Art Sobczak, Neil Rackham, Ari Galper, Claude Withacre... Read their materials and you will get the basic idea for calling the better way
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