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Tried to Warn Some People About Forum Links - Now you will WANT to listen

by Mike Anthony
139 replies
  • SEO
    • |
First off don't get me wrong. Forum backlinks are fine and will be for awhile yet. However I tried to warn people about having a pile of one kind of links and little else. Some people scoffed. Among those warnings were that sooner or later the largest forum developers would begin addressing the issue of links.

Its not my theory anymore. Its begun

Vbulletin the most widely used forum software that scrapers like to search for (and I do too in moderation) has released its version 4.0 at the end of last year. It had a little bit of a rough ride and they had to fix some things in January. I am now seeing more and more VB 4.0 installations. Why is this important? Take a quick look at the top part of the features that were promised for this release -

PLEASE NOTE THIS IS THE DEVELOPER'S SITE. SOME PEOPLE HEAVILY INVESTED IN FORUM BACKLINKING ARE TRYING TO SPIN THIS (HERE AND ON OTHER SITES) AS A MIKE ANTHONY REVELATION.

LINK IS HERE - vB 4.0 SEO Features - Blogs - vBulletin Community Forum

In short vbulletin is out to make outgoing backlinks nofollow. Their words not mine . I've read a few comments that they have in fact made good on this and/or that it is now easier than ever to make BB code all nofollow in the admin panel. I'll need to read more to make sure of this but rest assured when the leading forum provider talks about addressing the issue they eventually will and many other forum software developers will follow their lead.

What this means for you is that you need to have a balanced portfolio of links. Some forum owners won't upgrade for awhile ( this version may be different since VB 4 now has a lot more social networking features and a full blow n CMS add on). Some never will (but support will be dropped eventually and no respectable forum - Read there High PR - will continue using unsupported or patched software)but it is now important to make sure that some your best links remain in tact or you will fall like a rock out of your present serps position. It also means you have to start showing the forum owners more respect on how you link from them. mass autobot spammers will push them to make the leap to nofollow even more.

Its here people. Its not me allegedly calling chicken little anymore. The sky isn't falling but the days of mass bombing of one kind of link are coming to an end. Of course you can and I will continue to use forum links. They will have good effect for at least another year or more but if you have been relying on just a list of forums in your portfolio and if you site is propped up by that alone you are in for a rude day coming. Diversify while you can.

Or you can always wait until you see your site drop in search results

NOTE: Unfortunately people associated with heavy forum backlinking and those who don't like anyone pointing out the dangers of totally "mass autobot" spamming tried to derail the thread. Feel free to read on but if you don't have time for reading through flames just take the link provided for whatever you think its worth. Thanks
#forum #links #listen #warn
  • Profile picture of the author paulgl
    Hey you're scratching my itch, sort of.

    I've been railing against people abusing forums, especially
    joining just to get a profile page, one post with a sig, etc.
    There's just no way these links were going to be great
    forever.

    But, hey, the more I say that, the more people come
    here and publish some list of forums to spam, er...join,
    then spam a profile. Because this nonsense seems to be
    proliferating at light speed, it's just a matter of time before
    someone or some thing takes action.

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author aprilm
      oh no. that sucks.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by aprilm View Post

        oh no. that sucks.
        Hi april - doesn't have to suck. Just mix things up.
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        • Profile picture of the author aprilm
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Hi april - doesn't have to suck. Just mix things up.

          Haha...I know. I just don't know how to do that yet. I read about blog commenting, but honestly, I don't really know how to approach it and where to find the blogs to comment on. (high pr blogs or relevant blogs....and if the blog is high pr, sometimes the pages where you comment and leave links are pr 0) There is also social bookmarking sites, do you just bookmark your website's content? (trying to wrap my head around all of it) and then there is social networking...these are sites like facebook and myspace right? But aren't they nofollow? Did I miss any backlinking strategies here? ...ok, sorry to hijack the thread....carry on....:p

          (I'm still new, can you tell?)
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          • Profile picture of the author Hasan Barbary
            Originally Posted by aprilm View Post

            Haha...I know. I just don't know how to do that yet. I read about blog commenting, but honestly, I don't really know how to approach it and where to find the blogs to comment on. (high pr blogs or relevant blogs....and if the blog is high pr, sometimes the pages where you comment and leave links are pr 0) There is also social bookmarking sites, do you just bookmark your website's content? (trying to wrap my head around all of it) and then there is social networking...these are sites like facebook and myspace right? But aren't they nofollow? Did I miss any backlinking strategies here? ...ok, sorry to hijack the thread....carry on....:p

            (I'm still new, can you tell?)
            Hi, April ~

            Here's a tip you may find helpful: one of the easiest ways to "diversify your link portfolio" is to analyze & emulate the backlinks of the top-ranking competitors in your niche.

            1) if you haven't done this already, get a decent free tool like the trial version of SEO Spyglass

            2) focus on the Top 3 URLs (or top 3 domains, if 1 of them is double-listed, with an indented result) on Page 1 of the SERPs for your primary keyword phrase.

            3) run Spyglass; take screenshots of the results (you can't save in the free version); convert the screenshot to PDF and BINGO! you got more link targets than you can shake a stick at.

            Now, you won't necessarily be able to place links everywhere your competitors did. But a lot of times, you can. More importantly, those links sources are almost guaranteed to be diverse in type and IP address ~ because they are the backlinks that Google has determined to be the MOST RELEVANT, TRUSTED, AND "LINK JUICY" out of 42 million pages, or whatever. Those are the link sources that put the top dogs on top. (At least the ones you can see, anyways; but that's a whole 'nother topic).

            I'm painting in broad strokes & simplifying somewhat, but do you understand how powerful that knowledge is?

            Honestly, I think we sometimes make things much harder than they need to be in IM.

            If every newbie seeking backlinks just applied the three steps above, the need for these massively-over-sold and over-spammed packets would be cut in half.

            Ok, it'll just be our little secret.
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            • Profile picture of the author Thoma$
              Originally Posted by Hasan Barbary View Post

              Hi, April ~

              Here's a tip you may find helpful: one of the easiest ways to "diversify your link portfolio" is to analyze & emulate the backlinks of the top-ranking competitors in your niche.

              Yeah this is a good one, except doing this takes hours and hours of work. It will eventually be rewarded by Google if the top 3 competitors in your niche don't have 1000s among 1000s of quality backlinks (ok keyword research is here to help but still) but this is a VERY, VERY long term approach to obtaining high quality backlinks. Those "oversold / overspammed" forum backlinks can do the job within months, weeks or even days depending on your niche.
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              • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
                Originally Posted by Thoma$ View Post

                Yeah this is a good one, except doing this takes hours and hours of work. It will eventually be rewarded by Google if the top 3 competitors in your niche don't have 1000s among 1000s of quality backlinks (ok keyword research is here to help but still) but this is a VERY, VERY long term approach to obtaining high quality backlinks. Those oversold / overspammed forum backlinks can do the job within months, weeks or even days depending on your niche.

                Whats kinda funny is - that others selling competing sites/backlink offers to all the alledgedly "over sold" ones is ... limits like < 300 Limited to < 150 etc ... is already oversold and over spammed at 30-40 buyers.

                Webmasters getting 30-40 < 100 brand new subs in 3-4-5 days is a red flag and the jig is up then.

                Additionally a significant % of buyers never even bother to unzip the file.

                Differnt subject - kinda ....

                And Im sorry - but - if Adobe, Microsoft, the RIAA, et al cant make a dent in BH give aways - torrent downloads, serial cracks etc ... there are few IF ANY sellers here that have the horsepower to curb the theft / sharing of the products either.

                If your stuff aint getting stole -it might not be worth their time to bother cracking/stealing it.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Woah! this thread still going

                  Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

                  Whats kinda funny is - that others selling competing sites/backlink offers to all the alledgedly "over sold" ones is ... limits like < 300 Limited to < 150 etc ... is already oversold and over spammed at 30-40 buyers.
                  LOL! I dont't know a single backlink seller that claims that any packet with 30-40 users is oversold. Invention is always entertaining.

                  However lets get real here. The first thing anyone learns when going about finding forum backlinks is the scrape of "powered by vbulletin" with all its various add ons and permutations. I teach that in my very first video on the subject. Elementary. Plenty people own copies of scrapebox that make this even easier. So the chances are vanishingly small that you are going to end up with one list that doesn't have duplicates of another mass sold list over time especially when you consider that most will gravitate to the high PR forum sites.
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                  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Woah! this thread still going



                    LOL! I dont't know a single backlink seller that claims that any packet with 30-40 users is oversold. Invention is always entertaining.

                    However lets get real here. The first thing anyone learns when going about finding forum backlinks is the scrape of "powered by vbulletin" with all its various add ons and permutations. I teach that in my very first video on the subject. Elementary. Plenty people own copies of scrapebox that make this even easier. So the chances are vanishingly small that you are going to end up with one list that doesn't have duplicates of another mass sold list over time especially when you consider that most will gravitate to the high PR forum sites.
                    I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant to say. Admittedly - I didnt word it too well.

                    Of course no competing backlink list seller is going to come out and declare anyone elses list is over - sold at 30-40 users. They just declare theirs is better, top notch, best etc ... because they will "limit" it in some way. But... I dont believe there is much difference to the end user after 30-40 buyers ... the damage doesnt get done at the magical 301'st buyer or the 151'st.


                    However lets get real here. The first thing anyone learns when going about finding forum backlinks is the scrape of "powered by vbulletin" with all its various add ons and permutations. I teach that in my very first video on the subject. Elementary.
                    Hence why I dont do it ... its just a personal choice - not a condemnation of the other people with stuff in that space.

                    So the chances are vanishingly small that you are going to end up with one list that doesn't have duplicates of another mass sold list
                    So I wonder why its all the rage to highlite that "benefit" [ limited sales - feined exclusivity - scarcity etc... ] in the sales copy?
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              • Profile picture of the author reapr
                Originally Posted by Thoma$ View Post

                Yeah this is a good one, except doing this takes hours and hours of work. It will eventually be rewarded by Google if the top 3 competitors in your niche don't have 1000s among 1000s of quality backlinks (ok keyword research is here to help but still) but this is a VERY, VERY long term approach to obtaining high quality backlinks. Those oversold / overspammed forum backlinks can do the job within months, weeks or even days depending on your niche.


                Great concept ... I do have a link farm to sell you from 2000-2001.

                You are right that the overspammed/oversold can do the job rather quickly but ...

                The thing I have noticed that many that I considered competitors that did not diversify back then and did the "link farms" only are no longer my competitors. The ones who diversified and I know who they are were linking in forums, articles, other sites, link farms and any place they could find a link. In other words they were diversified. In fact I can only think of about four competitors that are left in a very strong niche that returns 160 million results broad search. With all the first page competitors they are all using linking strategies that are from many different sources and many of those competitors are less than 2-3 years old!

                Don't get me wrong I find a lot of value in dofollow links but if a linking strategy is so narrow it is limited to one or two types of site backlinks it will severely limit your ability to survive long term. Google and other SE always change thier algo's and well ... it can kill off many sites based on a very narrow linking strategy very fast.

                In other words yes always do what works now but always diversify your link building strategy for the long term ...
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      • Profile picture of the author Andy Marco
        Domestic engineer eh? Where can I get an e-book on that then? :-)
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        • Profile picture of the author aprilm
          Originally Posted by Andy Marco View Post

          Domestic engineer eh? Where can I get an e-book on that then? :-)

          Andy, I don't think it is possible for one ebook to cover the 'how to' of being a domestic engineer. It's hard work! And the only education out there is experience. But if I find one, I'll pass it your way. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Ohioquotes
    I wonder what Angela has to say about this. I keep debating (for the last few months) whether to send her 5 bucks per month for those great (maybe not so great now) links.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Ohioquotes View Post

      I wonder what Angela has to say about this. I keep debating (for the last few months) whether to send her 5 bucks per month for those great (maybe not so great now) links.
      I've been hearing that Angela has been going mostly with forums and I was surprised by it, Theres no reason to give up on forum links completely but in order to keep your hard work in place and your investment in place you should never be using just one kind of backlink in any link building campaign.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ohioquotes
    Also...not that this makes a difference, but that last post was not my first post.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    So the forums are going to make the links nofollow. All I have to say is, who cares. Google has indicated that they don't really pay any attention to the nofollow tag, and they were the only search engine that did follow it, but not any more.

    Besides that, you need to have some nofollow tags in your back links. It would be unnatural to not have any. And the one thing that you need this to be is natural. If Google or the others get the feeling that there is something phony about your back links, they will ignore them anyway. You need to have back links of all kinds, blogs, forums, directories and what ever else there is. Some of them need to be no follow.

    I don't see where this has made much if any difference in the situation. I am not panicked, and I would recommend that others don't get panicked either. Just keep building them where ever you can find a place to build them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      So the forums are going to make the links nofollow. All I have to say is, who cares. Google has indicated that they don't really pay any attention to the nofollow tag, and they were the only search engine that did follow it, but not any more..
      My goodness Tim . What in the world are you talking about????

      Do you have a source for that revelation. Thats one of the most ridiculous things I've seen anyone post on this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
    It's obvious that virtually everything will end up nofollow so what does it matter. Eventually either nofollow will become the new "dofollow" or Google will have to come up with a non link based algorithm. Spam and search manipulation will always exist no matter how the algorithm works, where Google moves, they will follow. Scare tactics are their only weapon, believing everything they tell you is believing they want to shoot themselves in the foot.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by L Wilson View Post

      It's obvious that virtually everything will end up nofollow so what does it matter. Eventually either nofollow will become the new "dofollow" or Google will have to come up with a non link based algorithm. Spam and search manipulation will always exist no matter how the algorithm works, where Google moves, they will follow. Scare tactics are their only weapon, believing everything they tell you is believing they want to shoot themselves in the foot.
      Well thats a close second to Tim's post. Its not only not obvious its totally false. Sites around the internet will continue to leave the nofollow tag off of many links. Because software makers will team up with Google to stop what they consider spam that doesn't mean that they are going to do away with linking to sites without the nofollow. Theres really no truth to your logic.

      Its entirely possible to do away with Forum profile backlinks and even blog commenting backlinks and leave the rest of the Internet like in comment links in articles, blog posts and various other places with dofollow links.

      Most of the Internet would be found just fine and the onlypeople that would miss it are people in IM. Total fantasy that this forces google to go away from links. We're just a little to deep into popular IM to see that theres a bigger world out there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
        Mike, I noticed you have changed your avatar and user title, was that by any chance something to do with something I said?

        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Well thats a close second to Tim's post. Its not only not obvious its totally false. Sites around the internet will continue to leave the nofollow tag off of many links. Because software makers will team up with Google to stop what they consider spam that doesn't mean that they are going to do away with linking to sites without the nofollow. Theres really no truth to your logic.

        Its entirely possible to do away with Forum profile backlinks and even blog commenting backlinks and leave the rest of the Internet like in comment links in articles, blog posts and various other places with dofollow links.

        Most of the Internet would be found just fine and the onlypeople that would miss it are people in IM. Total fantasy that this forces google to go away from links. We're just a little to deep into popular IM to see that theres a bigger world out there.
        You are doing it again. I don't claim truth or fact. I claim observation and questions, (that's how science works by the way). Everything that I observe (and the facts you get from Matt Cutts) is speculation and nothing else. We can do nothing but guess, test, and predict something based on the result. My questioning asks something very simple... If the Google algorithm is the driving force of their search engine and links play a massively important role, then why should we believe that Google want to ignore what will become the majority of them.

        Google are encouraging all websites to use nofollow in places where we can drop our own links, I call that a majority. This will leave SEO very few choices and some of them will be paid links or our own link farms! - Didn't they fight this one already?. In science we have to answer these kinds of questions and all the questions that spawn from here. Every probable answer leads back to the same question, do links matter or not? If you think the answer is no, then none of this matters. If you think yes, then you have just opened up a whole new set of questions. It doesn't stop with facts just because you are ready to hear them.

        Here's a theory, have you tested this one? nofollow is time delayed and links to one site aren't counted in bulk? I guess by your avatar that you must have thought about that one, what was your result, or is the test still running?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by L Wilson View Post

          Mike, I noticed you have changed your avatar and user title, was that by any chance something to do with something I said?
          LOL. I changed that before this thread was ever started so that would have been some feat.

          If the Google algorithm is the driving force of their search engine and links play a massively important role, then why should we believe that Google want to ignore what will become the majority of them.
          Because forum profile links and links in comments are not and never will be necessary for google to index pages. the premise is so wrong. Thats why I say we have to step back and look at things objectively. Sometimes we get so caught up in our IM world we think the world revolves around what we think is important. Forum backlinks are not important to the rest of the world or the Internet at large and believe it or not not even SEO experts.

          Google are encouraging all websites to use nofollow in places where we can drop our own links, I call that a majority. This will leave SEO very few choices and some of them will be paid links or our own link farms!
          -

          Wilson again thats why I say step back and take a look. Google is not concerned about where people can leave links and outside of IM and this board SEO does NOT rely on forum backlinks or blog comments. Everything is not going to go nofollow. Paid links are not going anywhere because theres no footprint for Google to follow and theres no one software developer to change one script and wipe out a lot of links. reciprocal linking the same, in context links the same,blogs the same (That is actual blog posts not commenting), article sites the same, some directories the same. Independently programmed social networks the same. Places that webmasters want to have followed links will always be around. So the theory that that this going to cause Google to let it all go one day is false. Those are the "scientific" facts.




          Here's a theory, have you tested this one? nofollow is time delayed and links to one site aren't counted in bulk? I guess by your avatar that you must have thought about that one, what was your result, or is the test still running?
          ???? Where and when did we start to discuss nofollow being time delayed and links being counted in bulk? Anyway Yes I do lots of tests but some I put as low priority because they've already been done. The Practice in the past of page rank sculpting shows that nofollow tags work pretty nearly exaxctly as advertised and even the links Roberbaur put up for wikipedia show nofollow not having an impact at all on serps.

          Listen I take it that some people are getting offended at the news and its natural that people want to shoot the messenger. the take away from the thread is the same and its that forum backlinks is going to and already has taken a hit. Vbulletin announced that. they made the so called "revelation". I expected some static especially from people that have been pushing one kind of backlinks but I didn't do this or guess this about Vbulletin 4. Its there in black and white.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            LOL. I changed that before this thread was ever started so that would have been some feat.
            I'm not talking about this thread

            Because forum profile links and links in comments are not and never will be necessary for google to index pages. the premise is so wrong.
            It's only wrong if you think it's going to stop here.

            Thats why I say we have to step back and look at things objectively.
            Objectivity is where I excel

            Sometimes we get so caught up in our IM world we think the world revolves around what we think is important.
            Only when you rely on other peoples theories

            Forum backlinks are not important to the rest of the world or the Internet at large and believe it or not not even SEO experts.
            We agree on something!


            Wilson again thats why I say step back and take a look.
            Again, it's where I excel.

            Google is not concerned about where people can leave links and outside of IM and this board SEO does NOT rely on forum backlinks or blog comments.
            No, but by your same argument it does matter if you are continously chasing dofollow links that are diminishing by the day.

            Everything is not going to go nofollow.
            Depends how you define everything. Me, I use the word generally, and taking a guess (based on what's happening) that everywhere we go and cause a nuisance, they will nofollow. Spammers will always exist and wherever you find somewhere to put a link, they will be there sooner or later. Then what, nofollow maybe? We can't play catchup forever. The more we lose, the more Google lose if they are still relying on links.

            Paid links are not going anywhere because theres no footprint for Google to follow and theres no one software developer to change one script and wipe out a lot of links. reciprocal linking the same
            Right, but what happens when they become become the majority of links that aren't nofollow. That aint gonna win no spam war.

            in context links the same,blogs the same (That is actual blog posts not commenting),
            which will naturally lead to more paid links, that's okay, it means it gets even easier for us, not good for Google though.

            article sites the same, some directories the same. Independently programmed social networks the same. Places that webmasters want to have followed links will always be around. So the theory that that this going to cause Google to let it all go one day is false. Those are the "scientific" facts.
            For how long? A lot of them have already gone nofollow, others will copy, group behaviour and myths will lead many to do the same. The few that remain don't leave a lot of links to follow an exponentially growing amount of web pages.

            ???? Where and when did we start to discuss nofollow being time delayed and links being counted in bulk?
            We didn't, that's why I used the word "theory" - sooner or later you would test this unless you believe blindly that everything Google announces can only be fact.

            Anyway Yes I do lots of tests but some I put as low priority because they've already been done.
            So you haven't confirmed them all for yourself?

            The Practice in the past of page rank sculpting shows that nofollow tags work pretty nearly exaxctly as advertised and even the links Roberbaur put up for wikipedia show nofollow not having an impact at all on serps.
            Yes but it's not a conclusive test, it's only examined some of the possibilities.

            Listen I take it that some people are getting offended at the news and its natural that people want to shoot the messenger. the take away from the thread is the same and its that forum backlinks is going to and already has taken a hit. Vbulletin announced that. they made the so called "revelation". I expected some static especially from people that have been pushing one kind of backlinks but I didn't do this or guess this about Vbulletin 4. Its there in black and white.
            It's nothing to do with being offended or shooting the messenger. What did you expect? One or two people might say "gee thanks, I wish I'd listened" my guess is most people are just thinking "duh". The blindingly obvious doesn't really require warnings.

            Lee
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          • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Forum backlinks are not important to the rest of the world or the Internet at large ---- Google is not concerned about where people can leave links and outside of IM and this board SEO does NOT rely on forum backlinks or blog comments.
            I'll have to disagree somewhat with this. While people don't concentrate on getting these links outside of the SEO/IM world, these forum links are often important to a site ranking or not ranking for niche related keywords. These links are usually achieved naturally, such as people linking to technical information like how to weave a basket or how to wire a guitar pickup. Therefore, I think that it will cause Google's results in many niches to be skewed toward sites that have the support of link farms and/or paid links, ie savvy Internet marketing niche sites rather than fan/enthusiast sites.

            Remember our discussion about getting links through link bait? What good is it going to be for me to create link bait, like say a nice electric guitar wiring diagram or a cross stitch pattern, if those links are going to be mostly nofollow? Instead, it would be more productive for me to put up a bunch of crap farm sites with spun/generated content or to buy links. I don't think that this is what Google wants but it may be what they get.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

              Remember our discussion about getting links through link bait? What good is it going to be for me to create link bait, like say a nice electric guitar wiring diagram or a cross stitch pattern, if those links are going to be mostly nofollow?
              Sorry for missing your post among all the hand waving bgmacaw. I guess I just don't see that kind of link going nofollow. I don't see people equating in context links with forum profile backlinks or blog commenting. Content that is written by the webmaster not a visitor is seen very differently than either of those and the chances of say Wordpress putting all content link as nofollow seems remote to me. Your link bait is geared toward the webmaster and should still work. Don't make people scare you. White hat has been remarkably stable for some years. You are on a very good path. I hope to join you soon
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  • Profile picture of the author Ohioquotes
    Does the SEO Spyglass do the same thing as the Yahoo pagelink button on my SEOBOOK toolbar with Mozilla?
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    • Profile picture of the author Hasan Barbary
      Originally Posted by Ohioquotes View Post

      Does the SEO Spyglass do the same thing as the Yahoo pagelink button on my SEOBOOK toolbar with Mozilla?
      It's much better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ohioquotes
    Skip my last post. I just watched a tutorial of SEO Spyglass. Much more information than I thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Layton
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Layton View Post

      . Keep faith and just focus your mind in building up backlinks other than forums.
      I'll still use them just not exclusively but then I never did.
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  • Profile picture of the author rogerbauer
    There are several linking strategies & tactics out there that should make forum links secondary (at best) anyway. Like many have said, mix it up and this shouldn't be a big deal ... just a blip.

    As for no-follow links being viewed as worthless, I mildly disagree based on the following information from Wikipedia:

    Google states that their engine takes "nofollow" literally and does not "follow" the link at all. However, experiments conducted by SEOs show conflicting results. These studies reveal that Google does follow the link, but does not index the linked-to page, unless it was in Google's index already for other reasons (such as other, non-nofollow links that point to the page).[8][9]


    My interpretation that has been supported by my own tests: if you have the page you're linking to already indexed, the link can provide some value even if it's no-follow. Or am I missing something?
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Its here people. Its not me allegedly calling chicken little anymore. The sky isn't falling but the days of mass bombing of one kind of link are coming to an end. Of course you can and I will continue to use forum links. They will have good effect for at least another year or more but if you have been relying on just a list of forums in your portfolio and if you site is propped up by that alone you are in for a rude day coming. Diversify while you can.

      Or you can always wait until you see your site drop in search results
      Everybody worth listening to has been espousing link type and ip diversity for ages - why do profess as if its your revelation. No we did not hear it here first.

      Any idea how many MILLIONS of pages that exist that currently, or that WILL BE CREATED that allow backlinks - profile backlinks, that are NOT on vBulletin? Google implemented the nofollow how long ago?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

        Everybody worth listening to has been espousing link type and ip diversity for ages - why do profess as if its your revelation. No we did not hear it here first.
        Perhaps you can show me where I said any such thing was my revelation? Don't make accusations because you don't understand the context. Like I said in the opening paragraph there were some here that DID scoff at the idea that forum links had even the possibility of disappearing. Thats just a fact. I've been in those discussions. Thats who I was referring to and to be honest there have been several threads and discussions in multiple thread on forum profiles so much so that some people were equating all profile linking with forum profiles. Again Fact.

        Any idea how many MILLIONS of pages that exist that currently, or that WILL BE CREATED that allow backlinks - profile backlinks, that are NOT on vBulletin? Google implemented the nofollow how long ago?
        This thread doesn't have one thing to do with Google implementing the nofollow. Its painfully obvious you didn't read the OP. This is about Vbulletin 4. As for the pointing out other links that are not on Vbulletin. Isn't it obvious I of all people know that?

        take it easy guy (especially with the accusations). I'm just pointing out some news that broke at the end of the year that hasn't been discussed. NOt trying to step on anyones feet.
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        • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
          < long reply trashed > .... you can have the last word. I dont have the energy or desire.
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          • Profile picture of the author WareTime
            Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

            < long reply trashed > .... you can have the last word. I dont have the energy or desire.
            Good choice there. He's the energizer bunny on this stuff.
            Best to just call Hitler and Salad cream early on.
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      • Profile picture of the author WareTime
        Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

        Everybody worth listening to has been espousing link type and ip diversity for ages - why do profess as if its your revelation. No we did not hear it here first.

        Any idea how many MILLIONS of pages that exist that currently, or that WILL BE CREATED that allow backlinks - profile backlinks, that are NOT on vBulletin? Google implemented the nofollow how long ago?
        True.

        OP has long been trying to establish himself as an authority. He's been floating these "revelations" out every couple of weeks.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by WareTime View Post

          True.

          OP has long been trying to establish himself as an authority. He's been floating these "revelations" out every couple of weeks.
          Waretime nice try at trying to mischaracterize when I post things form various sources (not just out of my head) and link to them. Sorry but I can't follow the IM guru mentality and pull it out my ear. I link to things in 90 percent of those postsas the real authorities. Somebody has to let newbies know that some of the stuff in this forum that you guys put out is wrong and will hurt their chances of making real money.

          I'm not ever going to be embarassed to state that no matter how you characterize it. My positions are mainline SEO. I don't need to build any authority. When you see me state anything on my own that isn't mainline SEO call me up cause right now you know you can't.

          Nofollow still = Nofollow

          Funny though last week the accusation was that I linked to much to Google and they were apparently not authoritative enough for their own engine and not to be trusted. Good for a chuckle. You guys are awesome.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by rogerbauer View Post

      There are several linking strategies & tactics out there that should make forum links secondary (at best) anyway. Like many have said, mix it up and this shouldn't be a big deal ... just a blip.

      As for no-follow links being viewed as worthless, I mildly disagree based on the following information from Wikipedia:
      Well, First off I wouldn't rely on an ambiguous set of tests only one of which supports that hypothesis when we are talking over 4 years old (wikipedia's references). Thats an eternity in search engine development. The problem of isolating out other factors is as always a problem.

      Second the article cites contradicting evidence also so you (that a generic you not an accusation) can't just pick one and go with it. And third even if you do go with just one of the reference it still indicates that Google spidered the page but didn't index it. The reference article merely references another study thats links is now broken so I can't comment it. So wiki's direct reefrence links don't speak well for that conclusion

      At any rate that all adds up to a pretty weak argument to spend time on nofollowed links. I don't thing the average person link building would want to to play that hit or miss game and based on what I saw even in that article its more total miss than hit.

      I'm pretty confident therefore that nofollow is not worth building a link campaign around. Especially after reading the reference that indicates that in fact the page was spidered and not indexed. I think I am reading that right but you can let me know.
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    • Profile picture of the author jazbo
      I agree that nofollow is not useless, but very strongly rather than mildly!

      What the people who scream "nofollow is useless, ignore those links" are forgetting, is that if the page is indexed and already has followed links pointing at it, then Google still uses nofollow link anchor text to establish and build RELEVANCY.

      So ignoring nofollow means you are very simply putting a self-imposed limit on the strength of your chosen search term relevancy, and possible co-citation benefits.


      Originally Posted by rogerbauer View Post

      There are several linking strategies & tactics out there that should make forum links secondary (at best) anyway. Like many have said, mix it up and this shouldn't be a big deal ... just a blip.

      As for no-follow links being viewed as worthless, I mildly disagree based on the following information from Wikipedia:

      [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google"]

      My interpretation that has been supported by my own tests: if you have the page you're linking to already indexed, the link can provide some value even if it's no-follow. Or am I missing something?
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      • Profile picture of the author medway
        Originally Posted by jazbo View Post

        I agree that nofollow is not useless, but very strongly rather than mildly!

        What the people who scream "nofollow is useless, ignore those links" are forgetting, is that if the page is indexed and already has followed links pointing at it, then Google still uses nofollow link anchor text to establish and build RELEVANCY.

        So ignoring nofollow means you are very simply putting a self-imposed limit on the strength of your chosen search term relevancy, and possible co-citation benefits.
        Ive heard about nofollow possibly passing relevancy but what tests show this to be actually true?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by medway View Post

          Ive heard about nofollow possibly passing relevancy but what tests show this to be actually true?
          I predict crickets will chirp before you get that answer from anyone.
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      • Profile picture of the author dburk
        Originally Posted by jazbo View Post

        I agree that nofollow is not useless, but very strongly rather than mildly!

        What the people who scream "nofollow is useless, ignore those links" are forgetting, is that if the page is indexed and already has followed links pointing at it, then Google still uses nofollow link anchor text to establish and build RELEVANCY.

        So ignoring nofollow means you are very simply putting a self-imposed limit on the strength of your chosen search term relevancy, and possible co-citation benefits.
        Hi Jazbo,


        I wish that were true, but Matt Cutts has indicated on several occasions that it doesn't pass relevancy.

        "In Google, nofollow links don't pass PageRank and don't pass anchortext"

        "Nofollow links definitely don't pass PageRank. Over the years, I've seen a few corner cases where a nofollow link did pass anchortext, normally due to bugs in indexing that we then fixed. The essential thing you need to know is that nofollow links don't help sites rank higher in Google's search results."

        - Matt Cutts

        source: PageRank sculpting

        Where nofollow backs are useful is in getting indexed more quickly and are very useful for getting targeted traffic. In fact they may be even more useful than most dofollow links for generating targeted traffic. Only about 1/4 of all web traffic comes through search engines. If you focus exclusively on search engine traffic you are leaving the bulk of all traffic to your competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author J. David Rogers
    Yeah, SEO Spyglass is the bomb. Definitely worth using the free version, and personally I went for the paid version as it's really useful to be able to save and export the results.
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  • Profile picture of the author digitalstar
    I agree with basics of post made by Mark Anthony.

    Yes, What he told basically is correct. We need to Build different types of links to our sites. Not just one or two types of links. Build links as many ways as possible.

    Try to understand things positively.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Originally Posted by digitalstar View Post

      I agree with basics of post made by Mark Anthony.

      Yes, What he told basically is correct. We need to Build different types of links to our sites. Not just one or two types of links. Build links as many ways as possible.

      Try to understand things positively.
      And of course ... this ...

      What The bigget backlink secret on Warrior Forums????

      solves the problem
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

        And of course ... this ...

        What The bigget backlink secret on Warrior Forums????

        solves the problem
        WOW. I must have really stepped on your territory. Again it was not intended. I don't know what you sell (and you use twice the signature space as I do so its like the pot calling the kettle). As a matter of fact no I can think of two other products on Warriors that addresses this issue as well. So you are wrong again. I'm not saying that my product is the one answer that solves the problem. I'm not even saying that people shouldn;t use forum links ( please at last actually read the OP). I'm saying that if you do use a bunch of forums you should use other links as well. This isn't about my product and I haven't made it about it.

        Are you trying to make this about products so you can get the thread deleted?

        Vbulletin has made some changes in version four that people need to bare in mind no matter what they choose to buy use or push. Thats all this thread is about. I respectfully ask that you stop trying for whatever reason to derail this thread with accusation after accusation.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rysk
          The industry will create a new means for creating mass links, it always has...

          A few years aho there were link farms, Google sussed them out, then there directories whcih now don't count for much, soon in the medium future signature forum links will also become devalued or not do follow.

          Sombody somewhere will think of an alternative means for links, everyone will follow and the cycle will repeat...
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        • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
          Uhh no - your ultimate solution to backlinks and claims to have the fastest backlink solution in existence - LOL ... are not invading on the MASSIVE territory that is backlink products - please dont continue to flatter yourself. Backlinking isnt a one size fits all endeavor and there are many ways to success.

          Ive seen several of your posts on SEO and backlinking issues and the theme is the same ... everyone else's stuff is crap, everyone else placing backlinks is not as brilliant as you ... you've been blathering on about the pitfalls of so many other peoples works and efforts and ideas, and - as Isaid before -your backlinks products just seem to miraculously meet all the crucial criteria you're espousing as mandatory for SEO via backlink success.

          You bust many a marketer's balls on this forum to "prove you wrong", and / or prove themselves right - yet ... do you prove your theories - anywhere?

          If so, Ive yet to see it.

          Im not really trying to make it about any product - especially yours - its about YOU, and your attitude towards others - majorly abrasive. Demeaning, condescending posts and replies - and from what point of authority you feel you come from boggles the mind.


          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          WOW. I must have really stepped on your territory. Again it was not intended. I don't know what you sell (and you use twice the signature space as I do so its like the pot calling the kettle). As a matter of fact no I can think of two other products on Warriors that addresses this issue as well. So you are wrong again. I'm not saying that my product is the one answer that solves the problem. I'm not even saying that people shouldn;t use forum links ( please at last actually read the OP). I'm saying that if you do use a bunch of forums you should use other links as well. This isn't about my product and I haven't made it about it.

          Are you trying to make this about products so you can get the thread deleted?

          Vbulletin has made some changes in version four that people need to bare in mind no matter what they choose to buy use or push. Thats all this thread is about. I respectfully ask that you stop trying for whatever reason to derail this thread with accusation after accusation.
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          • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
            The condescending tone and know-it-all attitude didnt endear our beloved Original Poster to a few as well. Especially since its a veiled shot at some of the other warriors on here [ the way I see it ]

            OP is certainly not ashamed to express his viewpoints and "opinions" - even outside his own threads ad nauseum, so I choose to let mine rip here in this thread as well - no matter how unsettling or unfavorable our un-tactful they may seem. In other words Im not usually inclined to be this harsh - but ... turnabout seems fairplay.

            It's nothing to do with being offended or shooting the messenger. What did you expect? One or two people might say "gee thanks, I wish I'd listened" my guess is most people are just thinking "duh". The blindingly obvious doesn't really require warnings.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              your backlinks products just seem to miraculously meet all the crucial criteria you're espousing as mandatory for SEO via backlink success.
              I like that. Its miraculous to you that someone would build a product based on principles they have learnt, believed in and are well established in SEO? What do you do when developing a SEO product? I'm sure your customers will want to know the other method.

              Anyway you are wrong yet again. If you must know after reading that link I have started the process of going through backlinks from vbulletin forums and see where I stand. The only good thing is I can update things without having to resend anything (since I never send anything but access anyway). Theres nothing magical about learning and then tweaking to the new facts.


              Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

              The condescending tone and know-it-all attitude didnt endear our beloved Original Poster to a few as well. Especially since its a veiled shot at some of the other warriors on here [ the way I see it ]
              WOW (again) Personal attacks and accusations are never ending with you.
              The only people I referenced in my OP ( did not name or identify) were those who in a previous discussion shouted me down for suggesting that forum backlinks would one day become nofollow in masse because of developers making them so. I didn't even have a single username in mind. Choose to believe it or not. it was just a recollection of a previous conversation that happened quite some time ago not recently.

              So not surprising the way you see it is wrong and again you are the only one taking personal shots and acting superior in accessing people 's intentions and motives.

              If you have any thing to add to this subject of the thread I will respond to it. I'll leave it to others to see why someone would make up so many accusations in this thread of all threads. I won't particpate in derailing the thread any longer so have fun at the character assassination bit.
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              • Profile picture of the author shaktimaan
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Forum backlinks are fine and will be for awhile yet.
                I shall keep relying on them as long as they are fine as they suit me and are easy to obtain.

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Vbulletin the most widely used forum software that scrapers like to search for (and I do too in moderation) has released its version 4.0 at the end of last year. It had a little bit of a rough ride and they had to fix some things in January. I am now seeing more and more VB 4.0 installations. Why is this important? Take a quick look at the top part of the features that were promised for this release -
                NOFOLLOW tag option is not new. Previous versions of Vbulletin also have the option of nofollow. Check this NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL...$200 To The Winner!! - Blu-ray Forum. it is Version 3.8.4
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by shaktimaan View Post


                  NOFOLLOW tag option is not new. Previous versions of Vbulletin also have the option of nofollow. Check this NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL...$200 To The Winner!! - Blu-ray Forum. it is Version 3.8.4
                  Its a new implementation of Nofollow and yes Version 4.0 is new. Its not me saying so. Its the makers of the software. Incidentally links to your site should go in your signature not in your post.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post


            Ive seen several of your posts on SEO and backlinking issues and the theme is the same ... everyone else's stuff is crap
            .
            Thats a lie but you know what? I'm not going to stoop to trying to take apart what you claim to offer or your WSO. Let me cut this off at the knee and prove you wrong. I like and endorse alot of what KKchoon offers. We were scheduled to do some tests together but haven't had the time. Joe is an outstanding guy that recently launched a WSO. He mixes things up and we have talked several times about limiting package size and alot of other things. I endorse them both.

            I respect the life out of Angela and have said so in the forum for the things she has done and registered surprise early in this thread that she would be affected because historically Angela has done a flat out INCREDIBLE JOB of mixing links. In some sense all that followed here are copycats myself included.

            So I do NOT think all other sellers stuff is crap. Thats just a manufactured lie and not the first one you've posted either. I respectfully request again that you stop doing that.

            Heres what I do know. Some people just don't like the idea of me stating anything about Nofollow, blog commenting or now Forum backlinks. Or you know what? scratch that. Its simpler - anything about nofollow or any link they use possibly being useless or near useless. Thats closer to it When I have hit on these subjects they get very defensive. I tend to hold my position and that makes them even more upset. You know this because your very first post in this discussion you came in swinging.

            So just quit it. You are the only one singling people out, attacking people personally along with their product. If you feel talking about Vbulletin making backlinks nofollow affects you or your product thats you . Again I don't know what you offer and its not part of this thread. I don't even care enough to read through your WSO as you have mine. And yeah you can have any opinion you want. It is fast.
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  • Profile picture of the author happymoney8
    That's good to know. Building backlinks is like investing...always best to diversify and not pull all the eggs under one basket!
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  • Profile picture of the author punksluck
    I can only assume that there must be something of substance in the revelation as I have just been told by the company that will doing my SEO that they do not intend to build ANY links as they are going to be considered worthless by the nice people at Google. Instead, they are only going to focus on wordpress blogs, article submission and advising me on how to change my page loading times as this is what's on the top of the list of Googles ranking agenda for this year. Anyone know if this is true?
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    • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
      Originally Posted by punksluck View Post

      advising me on how to change my page loading times as this is what's on the top of the list of Googles ranking agenda for this year. Anyone know if this is true?
      Cutts has said that loading time isn't going to be a big factor unless a site is extremely slow as compared to competing sites. But, people have seized upon this as being a big factor, sort of like people not wearing enough hats...

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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by punksluck View Post

      I can only assume that there must be something of substance in the revelation as I have just been told by the company that will doing my SEO that they do not intend to build ANY links as they are going to be considered worthless by the nice people at Google.
      Then you assume wrong....
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    • Profile picture of the author shaktimaan
      Originally Posted by punksluck View Post

      I can only assume that there must be something of substance in the revelation as I have just been told by the company that will doing my SEO that they do not intend to build ANY links as they are going to be considered worthless by the nice people at Google. Instead, they are only going to focus on wordpress blogs, article submission
      Links from wordpress blogs, article submission are also worthless by the nice people at Google.

      Only links gained naturally and from relevant communitues are legal according to google. By relevant community they usually mean forums.

      Originally Posted by punksluck View Post

      and advising me on how to change my page loading times as this is what's on the top of the list of Googles ranking agenda for this year. Anyone know if this is true?
      it is not a top ranking factor in google. I expect soon it will be a factor in google's algorithm.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
        Originally Posted by shaktimaan View Post


        Only links gained naturally and from relevant communitues are legal according to google. By relevant community they usually mean forums.
        Google is telling us what's "legal" now? Guess they got appointed to the Supreme Court over the weekend:rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexander CPA
    Saw this coming, vB4.0 will be on most blogs soon, I'm assuming many webmasters are not upgrading to vB4.0 because there are a few known bugs already, I'd rather not upgrade to a platform with known bugs/issues, I'd wait until they were fixed.
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    • Profile picture of the author DanielSanderson
      If all forum profile links turn to nofollow it will be doing you all a favour

      forum links are very poor and there are far better more time efficient ways of getting much higher quality links, I don't know why people mess around with these crappy links they're waste
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Alex Brooks View Post

      Saw this coming, vB4.0 will be on most blogs soon, I'm assuming many webmasters are not upgrading to vB4.0 because there are a few known bugs already, I'd rather not upgrade to a platform with known bugs/issues, I'd wait until they were fixed.
      Yeah but they have already patched alot of them. and yep many webmasters are upgrading already

      "powered by vbulletin 4.0" - Google Search

      Vbulletin has some sweet features webmasters are going to want to upgrade to. The CMS addon is by itself tempting but theres much more.
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      • Profile picture of the author mikkosant
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Yeah but they have already patched alot of them. and yep many webmasters are upgrading already

        "powered by vbulletin 4.0" - Google Search

        Vbulletin has some sweet features webmasters are going to want to upgrade to. The CMS addon is by itself tempting but theres much more.

        It only goes about 5 pages into the search results, but of course more people will be upgrading. The fact of the matter is, webmasters will always be getting ticked off about other guys building links on their land without leaving any "real value". Anyway, the point is, diversify your links and you'll be just fine.

        Get links where related traffic is already flowing. Then, if your content is any decent, natural linkbuilding may occur. At least you'll have a much better chance of natural link growth than on some pointless profile page.
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  • Profile picture of the author type-m
    It was gonna happen sooner or later and I personally don't mind at all. Let's see when other platforms do the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ohioquotes
    Speaking of SEO SpyGlass...Can you use the "link value" feature with the free edition? If so, I have not been able to do it.

    Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hasan Barbary
      Originally Posted by Ohioquotes View Post

      Speaking of SEO SpyGlass...Can you use the "link value" feature with the free edition? If so, I have not been able to do it.

      Thanks.
      That particular "feature" is either broken and/or bogus. Your exact question has already been covered in this thread:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ink-value.html

      Let's not spend any more time on that tool here; don't want to send this thread off on a tangent (although it's already halfway "off the rails". :p)

      P.S. Ohioquotes ~ the Search button at the top of the page is your friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author tjcocker
    Mike, really? Why is it that just about every thread you've been starting lately is some kind of warning about link building? Trying to drive traffic to your sig, or just get your post count up?

    Don't you realize that all the professional IMers will alter their link building IF/WHEN Google actually starts dropping our sites in the serps? Then we'll all move on, you included, like locusts to the next thing. So I don't see how this helps at all until such a time comes. Your thread title is pretty much a chicken little situation, or at the very least the boy who cried wolf. When the big bad wolf actually arrives we won't believe you.

    Anyone that relies solely on vBulletin profile links and nothing else has to be about the dumbest person around. There have been a minimum of 100 threads about link diversity.

    "(but support will be dropped eventually and no respectable forum - Read there High PR - will continue using unsupported or patched software)"

    Just plain wrong. I know hundreds of forums that haven't upgraded in years, even with many newer versions are out there, for many reasons. They still have high PR, tons of traffic, and they don't want to change a thing. I don't see how you can make a blanket statement as fact with absolutely no real world data to back it up. All you have is your opinion on that. Sounds logical, but people are anything but logical at times.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by tjcocker View Post

      Mike, really? Why is it that just about every thread you've been starting lately is some kind of warning about link building? Trying to drive traffic to your sig, or just get your post count up?
      :rolleyes:

      I hereby suggest that anyone that posts about anything related to IM on Warriors stop doing so and remove all their posts if they have a signature link. LOL. 90 percent of the content would go poof! Where you been bro? I write about content ranking a site (thats right not backlinking) linkbait which I encourage and a host of other seo related subjects. Look up - its the SEO section. My thanks shows pretty obviously I add good content. I write about SEO because if you haven't noticed its the SEO section and SEO interests me and is apart of my profession just as IM is a part of yours.

      anyway Thanks Tj I needed the comedic interlude. This thread is getting pretty hilarious with the same old crew weighing in anytime I write anything about nofollow. I actually got accused of being controversial recently here as well. As if the idea that nofollow really means nofollow is controversial in SEO. Too funny. this is the only place I can think of that takes such an aversion to basic SEO (and only a vocal few of you).


      Anyone that relies solely on vBulletin profile links and nothing else has to be about the dumbest person around. There have been a minimum of 100 threads about link diversity.
      Well I'm not going to call people dumb because their specialty isn't SEO but yes I have encountered many people trying to rank their site using backlinks that are almost entirely forum related. You haven't thats fine but again they are not dumb. As for being wrong about the major forums eventually running Vbulletin 4. Here take a look

      "powered by vbulletin 4.0" - Google Search

      Read em and weep. Looks like I have more than an opinion. Vbulletin came out officially end of December and look at the results (of course since the footprint is on several pages there are duplicates but its still showing an uptake.)
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      • Profile picture of the author tjcocker
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        :rolleyes:

        I hereby suggest that anyone that posts about anything related to IM on Warriors stop doing so and remove all their posts if they have a signature link. LOL. 90 percent of the content would go poof! Where you been bro? I write about content ranking a site (thats right not backlinking) linkbait which I encourage and a host of other seo related subjects. Look up - its the SEO section. My thanks shows pretty obviously I add good content. I write about SEO because if you haven't noticed its the SEO section and SEO interests me and is apart of my profession just as IM is a part of yours.

        anyway Thanks Tj I needed the comedic interlude. This thread is getting pretty hilarious with the same old crew weighing in anytime I write anything about nofollow. I actually got accused of being controversial recently here as well. As if the idea that nofollow really means nofollow is controversial in SEO. Too funny. this is the only place I can think of that takes such an aversion to basic SEO (and only a vocal few of you).


        Well I'm not going to call people dumb because their specialty isn't SEO but yes I have encountered many people trying to rank their site using backlinks that are almost entirely forum related. You haven't thats fine but again they are not dumb. As for being wrong about the major forums eventually running Vbulletin 4. Here take a look

        "powered by vbulletin 4.0" - Google Search

        Read em and weep. Looks like I have more than an opinion. Vbulletin came out officially end of December and look at the results (of course since the footprint is on several pages there are duplicates but its still showing an uptake.)
        Glad you enjoyed my comedy. I do sometimes enjoy trolling just to get a reaction. I am only human. :p I also like calling dumb people dumb.

        There are plenty of respectable warriors without anything in their sig, in fact, the most objective advice is usually from those people. If 90 percent of the content here went poof, we'd have a lot more useful content, but instead people use it for linkbait and post stupid questions or statements just to drive traffic to their sigs. Sigh. What a great place this would be if we actually just TALKED about marketing instead of MARKETING to the noobs and each other like some dark incestuous meeting place.

        Anyway, you reposting the google search link for vB4.0 doesn't mean a thing. I could post search results for the tens of millions of other forums that use something else. So...?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by tjcocker View Post

          Glad you enjoyed my comedy. I do sometimes enjoy trolling just to get a reaction. I am only human. :p I also like calling dumb people dumb.
          If they are dumb then what intelligent purpose is derived by calling them so. Isn't it dumb to think they will even understand? Do you then troll your own comments?

          There are plenty of respectable warriors without anything in their sig, in fact, the most objective advice is usually from those people. If 90 percent of the content here went poof, we'd have a lot more useful content,
          Like you calling people dumb right? but ummm no. One of the best forum scams around is leaving a signature link off your profile and endorsing techniques, people and products so that people can't identify your connection and will trust your recommendation more. There's of course nothing wrong with leaving a profile link off but it is absurd to think the abscence of it translates to more credibility.

          Anyone like yourself that spends so much time on an IM board clearly have vested interests in some product,website or service. The fact that we don't know what they are doesn't make you more credible. In fact it makes you less transparent and thats not a good thing lots of the time.


          Incidentally Posting a large number of sites that have gone Vbulletin 4 just backs up that little thing a few of you have forgotten - The subject of The OP. Links disappearing as people do upgrades. So yes it proves that. The OP never states everyone already had switched over. You just missed that I guess.

          but no that doesn't mean you are dumb
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          • Profile picture of the author tjcocker
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Anyone like yourself that spends so much time on an IM board clearly have vested interests in some product,website or service. The fact that we don't know what they are doesn't make you more credible. In fact it makes you less transparent and thats not a good thing lots of the time.
            Wow, you really enjoy arguing. That's ok, whatever makes you happy. You also can't stand someone making a point that contradicts you. So, here's a present:

            I have no vested interests. If you took the time to read all my posts you'd realize I am here for information, to share information, and I always promote free tools. GAKT and the like. I'm not here to promote any tools, WSOs, websites, or anything else. Sorry to disappoint.

            So basically what you said is a lie: "Anyone like yourself that spends so much time on an IM board clearly have vested interests in some product,website or service." I guess some things aren't so clear when viewed through a perspective such as your own. This tells us a lot more about you, than it does about me.

            So feel free to make wild claims, it just makes all your other claims that much less credible.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by tjcocker View Post

              I have no vested interests. If you took the time to read all my posts you'd realize I am here for information, to share information, and I always promote free tools. GAKT and the like. I'm not here to promote any tools, WSOs, websites, or anything else. Sorry to disappoint.

              So basically what you said is a lie:
              Good timing. I'm glad I didn't miss this. There was no lie. Nice try. The point was not that you were pimping anything directly and I never said so but that clearly (stand by it) you do have some interest in IM or you wouldn't spend the time that you do on this forum. I don't know of anyone interested im IM that doesn't have a preference for a product, service or a website. Vested interest doesn't necessarily mean sell

              You want to claim you have no biases or preferences for any product.service or website but just hang out for kicks talking about something you have no partcular interest in Fine. To me that would be an obvious lie.

              I dont believe it and I'll stand by that. I can tell you guys will have fun when I am not around though. Have fun making equally weak accusations
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      • Profile picture of the author jazbo
        Give it a rest Mike, its so see through its sickening. Another week, another "contraversial" thread started by Mike Anthony who won't even put his real face to his "claims".

        You have a product to push, you market it through making claims that you say are "facts" but you rarely back up. We all have stuff to market, but you are doing it in such a clumsy, crass manner, its understandably p***ing a few people off.

        Yes of course forum software is going nofollow by default, because a lot of those forums are getting a ton of profiles set up to gain links. but of the hundred, two hundred (who knows) thousand VB forums, how many are going to get upgraded to V4?

        You "warning" is nothing more than telling people "did you know that some of the most highly targeted platforms are going nofollow by default?

        Gee-whizz, thanks for that revelation.


        "Whats the biggest backlink secret on the Warrior Forums???"

        Well we all know the worst kept one.


        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        :rolleyes:

        I hereby suggest that anyone that posts about anything related to IM on Warriors stop doing so and remove all their posts if they have a signature link. LOL. 90 percent of the content would go poof! Where you been bro? I write about content ranking a site (thats right not backlinking) linkbait which I encourage and a host of other seo related subjects. Look up - its the SEO section. My thanks shows pretty obviously I add good content. I write about SEO because if you haven't noticed its the SEO section and SEO interests me and is apart of my profession just as IM is a part of yours.

        anyway Thanks Tj I needed the comedic interlude. This thread is getting pretty hilarious with the same old crew weighing in anytime I write anything about nofollow. I actually got accused of being controversial recently here as well. As if the idea that nofollow really means nofollow is controversial in SEO. Too funny. this is the only place I can think of that takes such an aversion to basic SEO (and only a vocal few of you).


        Well I'm not going to call people dumb because their specialty isn't SEO but yes I have encountered many people trying to rank their site using backlinks that are almost entirely forum related. You haven't thats fine but again they are not dumb. As for being wrong about the major forums eventually running Vbulletin 4. Here take a look

        "powered by vbulletin 4.0" - Google Search

        Read em and weep. Looks like I have more than an opinion. Vbulletin came out officially end of December and look at the results (of course since the footprint is on several pages there are duplicates but its still showing an uptake.)
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by jazbo View Post


          You have a product to push, you market it through making claims that you say are "facts" but you rarely back up. We all have stuff to market, but you are doing it in such a clumsy, crass manner, its understandably p***ing a few people off. [
          And so another from the previous nofollow argument joins the fray. I wonder why it just happened to tick off the same people who were ticked off from me stating the obvious - that nofollow acutally is no follow.

          Oh and the count now stands at four (still not including Jazbo who just recently stopped "pushing" his own backlink product in favour of something else. Four peple heavily invested in forum backlinking complaining and whining over one thread. Wonder why that would be?


          [quote]You "warning" is nothing more than telling people "did you know that some of the most highly targeted platforms are going nofollow by default? [/quote ]

          Guy the thread is about an announcement from Vbulletin themselves. Any intelligent reader is not going to be fooled that it is just a warning from me. I put the link right in the OP straight to the company.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


            Guy the thread is about an announcement from Vbulletin themselves. Any intelligent reader is not going to be fooled that it is just a warning from me. I put the link right in the OP straight to the company.
            The issue that many of us have, Mike, is that you have to sensationalize everything. Naive people see the crazy headline, and your carefully slanted copy in the thread (no doubt to stir people up), and often times don't have the experience or background knowledge to think through the facts themselves and just infer certain things from your headline and copy.

            Every thread you start reminds me of the National Enquirer, with a headline about Madonna giving birth to a two-headed chimp.

            As for the original post about Vbulletin, the fact remains that:

            (1) vbulletin is but one fish in a sea of many (actually based upon my research there were more SMF sites than VB, most likely because SMF is free I believe);

            (2) most vbulletin sites are not version 4.0+;

            (3) most vbulletin site owners who currently have a version less than 4.0 will NOT update to version 4.0 or later;

            (4) many vbulletin 4.0 sites are still do-follow; and

            (5) virtually all forum/community platforms give the owner/moderators options relating to follow/dofollow, public viewable profiles/signatures, etc. They have done this in the past and they will continue to do in the future. Each forum owner/moderator will decide how best to run his or her forum or community, as they should.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

              The issue that many of us have, Mike, is that you have to sensationalize everything. Naive people see the crazy headline,.
              Tom I think the only one that sees that title and thinks the earth is about to end is you and those alligned in that orientation. If I can be accused of pushing a link then what would be your motivation for objecting to this thread? Nothing to do with selling a package with almost all forum backlinks? Nah couldn't be.

              Nowhere in this thread did I say I was throwing away forum backlinks. This has never been discussed hee in regard to Vbulletin4 and people need to hear about it even if you don;t wnat them to. You think if you raise some objections to some imaginary points it means anything?

              FACT - More forums that use Vbulletin will go nofollow because thats in the upgrade. That s the sole point to alert people to to start balancing more. Of course sites that want the links to remain will stay followed. But for the guy that actually suggests putting your backlink in a smilie to stay under the radar on sites that dont want your backlinks let me ask.

              Will they turn back on your smilie link?

              See thats where you are DEAD wrong Tom. I don't post for controversy. I just have an ENTIRELY different way of looking at business, SEO and frankly most likely the world than you do and it just philosophically rubs some of you wrong. I strongly disaree wth your postions and you call that controversial. Sorry you don't get to define mainline as controversial.

              I don't believe in conspiracy theories so yes I laugh at the idea that Google created the nofollow tag to fool people. to those who believe in that nonsense the "laughter" of course feels condescending. I'm not going to apologize because mine is mainline SEO not some guy running a scraper and a copy of the latest spam bot. Do you get it now? I detest that approach to SEO. Its not for controversy or signature exposure (which I notice you are still sporting).

              Talk about The National Enquirer -

              Google creates Nofollow tag to Fool webmasters into a trance and allow Alien spammers to take the world over. News at Eight.

              You guys get away with alot of crappy advice in IM circles that would cause hilarious laughter outside of it and then claim my mainline stance is controversial (LOL). please spare the "many of us" claim. The largest objectors in this thread have ONE thing in common. they come from your forum where you teach mostly forum backlinking or they object to my previous mainline stance on nofollow. Period.

              Time to interject some honesty into this Tom. Speaking of Naive - not all people are. The Guru thing only carries you so far with people sold on you. Some people can see through things. Consult Terry. I suspect he would have handled this thread much better than bumping it constantly with flames and giving it more exposure than any other thread this week. Train your troops better.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Tom I think the only one that sees that title and thinks the earth is about to end is you and those alligned in that orientation.

                Then you are 100% wrong. Just read the replies to your threads and you will see that.


                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                If I can be accused of pushing a link then what would be your motivation for objecting to this thread? Nothing to do with selling a package with almost all forum backlinks? Nah couldn't be.
                What kind of BS are you spouting now Mike. I heve never once been accused of posting replies or starting threads to allure people to click any links in my signature. The same certainly cannot be said about you.


                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Nowhere in this thread did I say I was throwing away forum backlinks.
                No one ever said you did, but I think that alot of people would infer that (incorrectly) from your tone.

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                This has never been discussed hee in regard to Vbulletin4 and people need to hear about it even if you don;t wnat them to.
                That's fine. There is a right way to discuss a topic, and the wrong way. Sensationalizing it in a forum like here at WF is the wrong way.


                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                You think if you raise some objections to some imaginary points it means anything?
                Mike, I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                FACT - More forums that use Vbulletin will go nofollow because thats in the upgrade.
                ...and you seem to forget the fact that not many forum owners will upgrade to VB 4.0. I guess you just missed that point.

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                See thats where you are DEAD wrong Tom. I don't post for controversy. I just have an ENTIRELY different way of looking at business, SEO and frankly most likely the world than you do and it just philosophically rubs some of you wrong. I strongly disaree wth your postions and you call that controversial. Sorry you don't get to define mainline as controversial.
                You can call it whatever you want Mike, but the fact remains that the drabble that you post should be put on your own sites, not here at WF.
                I always try to say things like "in my experience,...", because that's a fact. You on the other hand, spout off with facts that aren't facts at all, but without any qualification at all.

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                You guys get away with alot of crappy advice in IM circles that would cause hilarious laughter outside of it and then claim my mainline stance is controversial (LOL). please spare the "many of us" claim. The largest objectors in this thread have ONE thing in common. they come from your forum where you teach mostly forum backlinking or they object to my previous mainline stance on nofollow. Period.
                Oh yea, I forgot to mention that I held a "lets get Mike" rally last night??!? Oh, did I mention that the forum is maybe 4 weeks old, yet you have been doing this crap for awhile now? Spare us the "world is out to get me" bit Mike. Most people on the WF are tired of your antics, to say the least.

                When many people around here (and not folks who joined last week with 3 posts) voice their disapproval of your antics, perhaps you should look in the mirror bud.



                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Time to interject some honesty into this Tom. Speaking of Naive - not all people are. The Guru thing only carries you so far with people sold on you. Some people can see through things. Consult Terry. I suspect he would have handled this thread much better than bumping it constantly with flames and giving it more exposure than any other thread this week. Train your troops better.
                There is where you are wrong Mike. I am certainly no guru, and never claimed to me. Nor do I have any "troops." I am but one man who shares what my experiences have been, without trying to scare people into believing in ghosts that don't exist.

                In any event, i'm off to work on my business as trying to reason with you is giving me a headache.
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            • Profile picture of the author shaktimaan
              Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

              As for the original post about Vbulletin, the fact remains that:

              (1) vbulletin is but one fish in a sea of many (actually based upon my research there were more SMF sites than VB, most likely because SMF is free I believe);
              But figures does not support your research . Also Page Rank of vb forums is higher than smf forums.

              In smf version 2.00 website title option is not availalbe.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
                Originally Posted by shaktimaan View Post

                But figures does not support your research . Also Page Rank of vb forums is higher than smf forums.

                In smf version 2.00 website title option is not availalbe.
                Ever heard of the signature option in SMF ;-) As for figures, I did probably more scraping on forums that anyone around. At the end of the day, I had over 35,000 forums from each of SMF and Vbulletin. But guess which one had more?
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                • Profile picture of the author shaktimaan
                  Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

                  Ever heard of the signature option in SMF ;-)
                  Forum owner can disable signature option but website option can not be get rid of and in smf 2.00 website option is without anchor text.

                  You know it better than i do.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
                    Originally Posted by shaktimaan View Post

                    Forum owner can disable signature option but website option can not be get rid of and in smf 2.00 website option is without anchor text.

                    You know it better than i do.
                    Of course the signature option can be turned off in VB too , but your point is well taken

                    Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Ohioquotes
    Hi Hasan

    Thanks for the tip. I did search but must have missed that.

    By the way...Philly is a great city. I grew up in Harrisburg.
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  • Profile picture of the author tcano
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Originally Posted by tcano View Post

      why does it have to be 15 posts
      C'mon man - your leaving us no option but to report your post count spam
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  • Profile picture of the author tcano
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Originally Posted by tcano View Post

      That I ain't gon stop til I D-I-E
      Good Day and goodbye
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  • Profile picture of the author Craig McPherson
    This thread headed south quickly.

    Shame really, Mike knows his stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Craig McPherson View Post

      This thread headed south quickly.

      Shame really, Mike knows his stuff.
      Eh don't worry about it craig. I saw some of it coming. I can tell you that at least two people who show up in this thread are directly related to Forum backlinking products or fully automated spam bots I mentioned in the OP. So its kind of to be expected.
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  • Profile picture of the author COBSolutions
    Well, it is never a good idea to believe and create same kind of backlinks
    Believe and carry out diversified link portfolio so that these kind of changes of nofollow and dofollow wont affect your rankings
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  • Profile picture of the author sabqatonline
    90% + members come here for backlink including me it should not happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author ayasmonsterz
    Banned
    Mmmmmm....I see...i'wll Try, thanks for the info.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    To the whole nofollow crew that have descended on this thread in fear of losing some sales. (and it never had to come down to that anyway).



    I'm calling your bluff.

    My sig is turned off (laughable that you think thats why I hold my mainline position on SEO but hey fine).

    Want to turn yours off and talk some REAL SEO? I'll be waiting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


    NOTE: Unfortunately people associated with heavy forum backlinking and those who don't like anyone pointing out the dangers of totally "mass autobot" spamming tried to derail the thread. Feel free to read on but if you don't have time for reading through flames just take the link provided for whatever you think its worth. Thanks
    The thread didn't derail because of the content of your OP, it's your condescending manner and complete inability to hold a rational discussion when faced with a reasonable opposing question. That is what prevents a discussion like this leading to something useful for everybody.

    And for those that didn't see the original thread title, here it is, slightly different from the new one.

    "Tried to Warn You about Forum Links - Now you HAVE to listen"
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by L Wilson View Post

      And for those that didn't see the original thread title, here it is, slightly different from the new one.

      "Tried to Warn You about Forum Links - Now you HAVE to listen"

      Actually the "You" never meant everyone that would be illogical and absurd. It still applies to some it seems (yourself included). Besides I made it perfectly clear what I was referring to. Fact - people did scoff at this announcement becoming reality from forum software developers. and yeah if the title was misread by you as a personal thing then it helps to change it no? BUt If you have any honesty you know its much more that.

      Look. You can pretend all you want its not the content of this thread. You are on another forum blasting the content itself without me even being active on that forum. Want a link? You know it and I know it so fess up. Alot of you are involved in a site that promotes alot of Forum backlinking and the idea that it has some flaws in it now ticks you off no end . Stop pretending. This was all unnecessary anyway.

      Whats silly about all of this is a I NEVER Targeted ANY PRODUCT or seller and almost all backlink buyers buy multiple products so you could balance out link building even with any forum product. All backlink sellers have to address themselves to this new reality not try and bury the truth. It might make you have to work harder than running a scraper for "powered by Vbulletin" (or another set of footprints) to earn your money but so what? Just do it. We get paid well enough for sharing information publicly available on the Internet. For goodness sake.

      So honestly its two things. the content and a previous debate about nofollow really not being followed by google that has you ticked off. Almost all of you were in that thread or have referred to it.

      Just come clean or leave the thread alone. It has a link that none of you can contradict. Meanwhile the most arrogant statement in this thread about excelling in objectivity wasn't mine.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Actually the "You" never meant everyone that would be illogical and absurd. It still applies to some it seems (yourself included).
        No, I'm nothing more than an observer. I haven't bought any link building packs from Tom, Terry, Angela ... not anybody. I actually don't do a great deal of link building, I don't need to for the most part, but if and when I do, I will use forum profiles in the same way that I have for the last three years or so, not very often. That could change, I have no plans.

        Besides I made it perfectly clear what I was referring to. Fact - people did scoff at this announcement becoming reality from forum software developers. and yeah if the title was misread by you as a personal thing then it helps to change it no? BUt If you have any honesty you know its much more that.
        I can't understand why anybody would scoff at a no brainer. Of course software developers will include this in updates, and it isn't going to stop at Vbulletin. I could start an endless list of amazing revelations right now, based on the obvious.

        Look. You can pretend all you want its not the content of this thread.
        No, it's the way you put your message out. My problem with you stops there. Tom summed it up, there are a lot of inexperienced or naive people reading this stuff and whether you accept it or not, a lot of them will get the wrong impression. Your posts rarely include any kind of "however" and if somebody tries to inject any kind of constructive criticism, you refuse to debate it. Incidentally, I have never said anywhere in this forum that I have a conclusive opinion on nofollow or dofollow, in fact I don't have an opinion at all. The only question I raise is that what Google tells us, doesn't add up or make any logical sense, therefore I remain sceptical, nothing else.

        You are on another forum blasting the content itself without me even being active on that forum. Want a link? You know it and I know it so fess up.
        You are welcome to link to it if the forum owners don't mind. I never thought for one minute that you wouldn't be lurking there so nothing to hide or fess up to. I wasn't blasting your content, I was blasting you and the way you refuse to count logic into any of your arguments, albeit, in only a few words. Whether my logic is flawed or not is irrelevant, it's an alternate view. One thing is for certain, what Matt says about nofollow doesn't quite add up. He may be telling the absolute truth, I don't know that and neither do you, and that's not grounds for it to remain unquestionable. What he says is absolutely not be the basis of fact.

        Alot of you are involved in a site that promotes alot of Forum backlinking and the idea that it has some flaws in it now ticks you off no end . Stop pretending. This was all unnecessary anyway.
        Can you point to one single person that never thought it had flaws!

        Whats silly about all of this is a I NEVER Targeted ANY PRODUCT or seller and almost all backlink buyers buy multiple products so you could balance out link building even with any forum product.
        I haven't been involved in that argument, I've personally not accused you of targeting any product sellers.

        All backlink sellers have to address themselves to this new reality not try and bury the truth. It might make you have to work harder than running a scraper for "powered by Vbulletin" (or another set of footprints) to earn your money but so what? Just do it. We get paid well enough for sharing information publicly available on the Internet. For goodness sake.
        I would agree with that but here's the problem. I haven't noticed any of them touting their products as flawless. Where are they burying the truth, maybe I missed that so I'll leave it there.

        So honestly its two things. the content and a previous debate about nofollow really not being followed by google that has you ticked off. Almost all of you were in that thread or have referred to it.
        I'll say it again. My only problem with you is your refusal to be questioned on your logic, this doesn't help anybody who are here to try to learn something, it's how myths start. It's a complete waste of your time thinking I have another agenda, because I don't.

        Just come clean or leave the thread alone.
        Come clean? I have nothing to come clean about, I can't help you with your own unfounded suspicions. Everything you need to know about my agenda has been stated clearly in this and other threads.

        It has a link that none of you can contradict.
        I never denied the link, nor has anybody else.

        Meanwhile the most arrogant statement in this thread about excelling in objectivity wasn't mine.
        I also excel in arrogance
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by L Wilson View Post

          No, I'm nothing more than an observer. I haven't bought any link building packs from Tom, Terry, Angela ... not anybody. I actually don't do a great deal of link building,
          Really theres another L wilson on Tom's boards right? that writes just like you and is defending forum backlinks? LOL. This is getting hilarious. But tom finally got one thing right. Time to go do some business rather than following up forum heavy backlink sellers trying to spin away from the facts to distract people from Vbulletin 4 going no follow.

          My Job is done anyway . When people start seeing links disappear then they will remember this thread.

          And Tom

          I just stopped reading when you pretended that you didn't see the conflict of interest in a forum heavy backlink seller disputing a thread about A forum software developer removing followed links. Especially as you accused again about posting for signature views even after I removed mine and you refused to remove yours.

          Zero credibility.

          Its been real guys thanks. Its obvious you don't want to talk SEO or remove your signature links. Just another distracting ploy.

          BYE
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          • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Really theres another L wilson on Tom's boards right? that writes just like you and is defending forum backlinks? LOL. This is getting hilarious.
            That answers a lot, you clearly don't read.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              I left another window open and came across this that I had missed. People this is about the most misleading assertion yet.

              (3) most vbulletin site owners who currently have a version less than 4.0 will NOT update to version 4.0 or later;
              Tom seriously you need to go do some training on forums since you are trying to float one. The WORST thing a forum can do is run old unpatched software and yes sooner or later EVERY developer STOPS supporting a version.

              Saying definitely that they will not upgrade just shows how untrained you are in running a forum or how far you are willing go to distract people from some real issues


              Saying that a thriving high authority site the kind that would be worth getting a link on will continue forever running an old version is pure and absolute nonsense.

              The majority of High PR sites WILL eventually upgrade at some point. the only questions is when. Thats like saying most corporations will NOT upgrade from Windows XP. OF course they will. Its only a matter of when. NO major corporation continues to run old versions forever.


              Why don't you claim that bloggers using wordpress will NOT upgrade to newer versions. Its silly. Of course they WILL. Again only a matter of time.

              You have the nerve to claim that my posts will lead naive people astray and then you write something so blatantly misleading to counter a real upcoming issue? Shame.

              But hey carry on regardless. Just saw that and had to comment.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
                Please point me to where I said that a forum owner should not upgrade his site. What I said is that most forum owner's won't do it. High cholesterol is bad, but you don't see the business at McDonald's drying up, do you?

                Have you ever seen what versions of forum software most forum sites (yes, including the high PR ones), are running? Most of the ones that have been in existence 1+ years are running old, out-dated forum software. They like the way their forum runs, and don't want the hassle of upgrading, getting to know the knew software, and dealing with any hiccups relating to that.

                Your analogy to Windows XP is hogwash as well. We aren't talking IBM here, this is Joe Schmoe with his forum rooting on the Crimson Tide or something. Joe already had his forum the way he liks it. He has his nice cute VB skin roaring. You think he is likely to upgrade to a whole new version (i.e., going from 3 to 4)? If you do, I've got a bridge to sell you.

                Wordpress is a different story, as it is a 1 click upgrade with almost always some minor tweaks here and there. Upgrading a forum is a whole different ballgame.

                And yes, I had the nerve to state a fact about your sensationalist headlines and slanted copy, sue me.


                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                I left another window open and came across this that I had missed. People this is about the most misleading assertion yet.



                Tom seriously you need to go do some training on forums since you are trying to float one. The WORST thing a forum can do is run old unpatched software and yes sooner or later EVERY developer STOPS supporting a version.

                Saying definitely that they will not upgrade just shows how untrained you are in running a forum or how far you are willing go to distract people from some real issues


                Saying that a thriving high authority site the kind that would be worth getting a link on will continue forever running an old version is pure and absolute nonsense.

                The majority of High PR sites WILL eventually upgrade at some point. the only questions is when. Thats like saying most corporations will NOT upgrade from Windows XP. OF course they will. Its only a matter of when. NO major corporation continues to run old versions forever.


                Why don't you claim that bloggers using wordpress will NOT upgrade to newer versions. Its silly. Of course they WILL. Again only a matter of time.

                You have the nerve to claim that my posts will lead naive people astray and then you write something so blatantly misleading to counter a real upcoming issue? Shame.

                But hey carry on regardless. Just saw that and had to comment.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

                  Please point me to where I said that a forum owner should not upgrade his site. What I said is that most forum owner's won't do it. High cholesterol is bad, but you don't see the business at McDonald's drying up, do you?
                  I don't see the same size sandwiches either and most coke machines I can't put in a single quarter and get anything and most come in plastic not aluminum. Change is inevitable. its people that won't adapt and face that who are the problem.

                  Sorry the point you make is garbage. We aren't talking about any old forums here and you aren't saying many but most. We are talking about high PR, High authority sites or at least I hope thats what you give cause you sell that concept like we all do.

                  The last whole version number upgrade to Vbulletin was version 3.0 in 2005. AS a percentage FAR MORE people upgraded from 2 to three than stayed put over that time. Do your homework before making blanket authoritative claims about what others will NOT do. Thats what you allege your beef with me is right? I'm sorry where did I miss "my feeling is .." in that authoritative statement?

                  Then there was 3.5. AGAIN There are far more sites running 3.5 and upward. So at best you are fudging it and have no clue what people will do or don't understand the difference between an incremental upgrade and a major upgrade. Software versions ALWAYS go out of use at some time. Its embarassing to have to state something so elementary and obvious.

                  Don't want to explain to your customers the risk of getting forum backlinks that will see some loss with upgrades thats fine. Just want to brush it off? I AM NOT SURPRISED AT ALL. Just scrape and go bro.

                  But lets play your unsubstantiated fact defied scenario here and say that only 20 percent of sites upgrade. On a 400 backlink campaign that would be like 80 links.

                  don't think thats worth telling your customers about and having them realize the risks so they can prepare for it?

                  I'm not surprised.

                  Want to pretend that those sites that you want to stay low on because you suspect they won't like a backlink if they see it aren't going to upgrade and wipe out a chunk of the links?

                  Again I am not surprised.


                  Like I said I don't see business, life or SEO your way. One is oil and the other is water. Claim I'm trying to push my link all you want, I took mine down when you wouldn't. The truth is we just see things really different regardless of any sig link and my road will always look controversial and out of step from yours.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by L Wilson View Post

              That answers a lot, you clearly don't read.
              Your secret is safe with me man. I Just looked at the thread you guys have on this same subject (with the similar character attacks) but I ain't linking to it. With what Tom just wrote I see no reason to give his site an in content link.

              and to answer the nonsense about my tone. In another thread I was daring to give away few backlinks and a certain poster in this thread was all over it too

              http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...3gaohV10dIwe7L

              Funny. It must have been Soooo controversial and sensationalizing to give away some backlinks to people who need them but there he is firing away. Go figure
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                I Just looked at the thread you guys have on this same subject (with the similar character attacks) but I ain't linking to it. With what Tom just wrote I see no reason to give his site an in content link.
                BTW, did you catch who created that thread and why it was created? Someone read your sensationalist headline and slanted copy and inferred ideas from your tone and copy without understanding the issues involved, and that poster wanted some other people's feedback as they didn't have that much experience or background in this area.

                If you had posted a link to the article, and said something like, "my feeling is this...", or "in my experience....", then the whole uproar wouldn't have happened. But no, we had to have Madonna giving birth to the two headed chimp
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

                  BTW, did you catch who created that thread and why it was created?
                  Yeah I did. He said he read this thread and wondered if he shoud be worrried. You didnt tell hm that yes some of his links would disappear if some sites went nofollow. Instead you lashed out at me as being the source which was a lie. the source is the link from vbulletin. Then L wilson who isn't over there so keep it on the down low (LOL!) states something about it not being possible because it would mean that all sites would go nofolow blah blah blah.

                  Look I'd be alarmed if I was him too. You are his tutor and you never mentioned that possibility to him. If he had heard it from you first and had it appropriately distorted to begin with he wouldn't have needed to ask. Thats on you. He's your customer and you still haven't admitted to him that he will lose some links over this.

                  apologies for answering. Go ahead and have the last word. This is getting tiring and at this point only someone invested on your side would sludge through all of this. I'm done.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Yeah I did. He said he read this thread and wondered if he shoud be worrried. You didnt tell hm that yes some of his links would disappear if some sites went nofollow. Instead you lashed out at me as being the source which was a lie. the source is the link from vbulletin. Then L wilson who isn't over there so keep it on the down low (LOL!) states something about it not being possible because it would mean that all sites would go nofolow blah blah blah.

                    Look I'd be alarmed if I was him too. You are his tutor and you never mentioned that possibility to him. If he had heard it from you first and had it appropriately distorted to begin with he wouldn't have needed to ask. Thats on you. He's your customer and you still haven't admitted to him that he will lose some links over this.

                    apologies for answering. Go ahead and have the last word. This is getting tiring and at this point only someone invested on your side would sludge through all of this. I'm done.
                    You are an expert at completely missing the point, and it's still clear you didn't read my earlier reply to you, you know the one where I didn't mention anywhere that the thread wasn't me, come to think of it, I outright admitted that it was me and I had nothing to hide.

                    I have a great idea for your next thread. Amazing revelation by Mike..

                    "forum owners are moderating profile links and making the memberslist closed off to search engines so some of your links won't hold, your links are not guaranteed"

                    Oh, sorry, I just remembered. Tom and Terry have told their members this time and time again already, but of course to know that, you would need to read their content.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by L Wilson View Post

                      Oh, sorry, I just remembered. Tom and Terry have told their members this time and time again already, but of course to know that, you would need to read their content.

                      About Vbulletin 4? Really?. Thats great so what has all the fuss been about? Because I told others that don't read their content about it?

                      LOL!

                      But wait a minute. Weren't you just supposed to be an objective onlooker but you read Tom and Terry "time and time again". I like you Wilson. You are fun.

                      incidentally this thread had nothing to do with Forum moderators removing links.IF you want to have a last word in addition to tom just say the word.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


                        But wait a minute. Weren't you just supposed to be an objective onlooker but you read Tom and Terry "time and time again". I like you Wilson. You are fun.
                        Normally I can figure out where you have managed mass interpretation breakdown, but you've got me on this one.

                        incidentally this thread had nothing to do with Forum moderators removing links.
                        That's right, I thought it had evolved into them holding back the truth from their members, I think most of us would forgive them for not seeing the need to go into every conceivable detail when an overall generalised warning will easily suffice, you know, the one that says not all links will count.

                        IF you want to have a last word in addition to tom just say the word.
                        I'll get a draught drawn up and get back to you.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by L Wilson View Post


                          That's right, I thought it had evolved into them holding back the truth from their members, I think most of us would forgive them for not seeing the need to go into every conceivable detail
                          This is important point to clarify so I'll jump back in on that . I don't see Terry in here anywhere disputing this thread. He's free to do so but like I said my gut is that he would handle it differently than Tom. My sense of terry is completely different than Tom up to this point. They are obviously not the same people and I'm not accusing him of anything. No "them" . But if you are in this thread and can't admit theres a valid point in making people know these things thats another thing

                          I said point blank in the very first sentence

                          "First off don't get me wrong. Forum backlinks are fine and will be for awhile yet."

                          and then I get this nonsense about me running wild and hysterical and sensational. Its transparently just a cover. The idea that the average reader will just ignore that line is too thin. the idea that everyone would normally get hot because I used the word YOU is also thin. The only ones back and forth in this thread are the exact same people who took issue with the nofollow debate. That found it arrogant for me to say that nofollow is exactly what it is - " nofollow".

                          Denial is just lying.

                          and yeah fact. Nofollow tag works as just that "nofollow" . How arrogant of me. Its been months and no one has put up anything close to pagerank sculpting (that proves it works) NO evidence against. Nada. Zip and I'm supposed to take it out of the FACT column or be arrogant? Nonsense.
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                        • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
                          The comedy for me is ... the truth that nofollow links dont provide or cannot provide value to a linkbuilder is ... the revelation that vBulletin is offering a NoFollow feature to ver. 4.0.

                          Gee Mike - can you prove that nofollow links are of No Value?

                          Mike Anthony - nominee for best supporting actor in the Dramatic Yawner "As the Link Burns" ... ''Well, Yes all you nofollow link sellers I can - see - vBulletin is offering a nofollow feature - you're all doomed - now YOU HAVE TO LISTEN!"

                          As many times as you've demanded others to PROVE with tests that No Follow links help boost serps ... I'll ask you once more to prove with your testing that they dont or cannot. Simply typing it into existance one way or the other isnt going to fly - your PROOF of - "see look here google says nofollow = nofollow - any REAL SEO knows this" drivel isnt gunna work.

                          Your insinuations that I intentionally "sell" nofollow links - so therefore I must have an alterior motive is bullshizzle too. Your specious Forums links in my backlink profile wisecrack too is idiocy. Of the 6 Bl products ive ever sold - none of them relied on forum backlinks in the traditional sense of forums vBulletin / phpBB, SMF etc ... You would know if you had looked deeper than a url into the backlink profile - that any url with the word forum it is from a web 2 community platform that just happens to have a do follow forum section in it. I dont do forums links - i do community platforms - that have several sections or opportunities to get links - be it video galleries, photo galleries, forum posting, profiles, guestbooks, calendars. Im rather fond of surrounding my links inside article content - so I tend to go for more than just profile backlinks and wp blog commenting or stupid links sites that dont allow full html anchor text links.

                          Frankly Ive got no dog in the Forum Backlinks hunt. In fact Id be better for it if they took a dump - because what I do doesnt involve vBulletin, phpBB, SMF etc ... but in typical drama queen fashion you jumped to the conclusion that I must have a hidden agenda against you - other than I think your trying to pimp your stuff in a particularly ****ty manner. Your only argument to any dissension is to infer competitive jealousy. When the fact is - I just think you're full of hot air, and cannot and have not backed up one bit of your postulations ... [ well ive yet to see you prove your position of no follow links provide NO Help to serps ]

                          I dont give two hoots whether google claims that google bot follows the links, or that the links dont "flow the same amount of juice" as a do follow - or not. The point is Id like to know how you can prove it either way. Id love to see your scientific double blind tests bolstering your position.

                          If youre not prepared to put up, then how can you demand others who believe / feel / think differently to do so. So put up your nofollow test results. Askedyou repeatedly in hte other thread - your reply was merely personal attacks on my motives for asking a question. [ which was brought about by my honest laughter at calling Robo Form the fastest backlinking and semi "complete" solution - aka brooo haa hhhhaaa ]
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                            Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

                            The comedy for me is ... the truth that nofollow links dont provide or cannot provide value to a linkbuilder is ... the revelation that vBulletin is offering a NoFollow feature to ver. 4.0.........Gee Mike - can you prove that nofollow links are of No Value?
                            [/quote]

                            Too silly. Thats not the proof. NO follow is nofollow even outside of Vbulletin 4. Nice try at a strawman argument. The nofollow tag works as advertised and I 've presented the evidence several times. Its simple

                            The well established and now historical practice of thousands of webmasters that used to practice pagerank sculpting. the practice of webmasters of using it (incorrectly though) to not get a page indexed that they don't want indexed.

                            Its never been just because Google said so but the conspiracy theory about them creating it, selling it to all webmasters and then the webmaster all being fooled is really entertaining stuff. Maybe you can get A nice Will Smith Movie built around the concept. I'd pay to see it. Comedy right? Or did they do it already in a sequel to Men in Black I haven't seen?

                            You nofollow guys are on the outside looking in in almost every other group of professional SEOs. its only in Im you can peddle the water from the washed hog.


                            But thanks anyway at least you and Jazbo are getting down to what I said all along was the real beef. My position on nofollow completely separate from this thread and before this thread.


                            Truth is refreshing no matter how grudgingly and backhanded the truth is finally admitted. See I didn't have to prove that you had a previous issue with me. You went right ahead and demonstrated it by bringing up the same previous debate in this one.

                            I hereby am officially bored. You all can bump it as many times you want form here on in. Denials, more character assassinations etc. The more people that read the OP the better. As one of the four would say - Flame on. I'll make my "subscription" to this thread expire as of now..

                            Incidentally I stand corrected about forums. I had no idea that when forum software was wrapped by a community it no longer qualifies as forum software. Interesting programming concept.
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                            • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals

                              Too silly. Thats not the proof. NO follow is nofollow even outside of Vbulletin 4. Nice try at a strawman argument. The nofollow tag works as advertised and I 've presented the evidence several times. Its simple

                              The well established and now historical practice of thousands of webmasters that used to practice pagerank sculpting. the practice of webmasters of using it (incorrectly though) to not get a page indexed that they don't want indexed.

                              Its never been just because Google said so but the conspiracy theory about them creating it, selling it to all webmasters and then the webmaster all being fooled is really entertaining stuff. Maybe you can get A nice Will Smith Movie built around the concept. I'd pay to see it. Comedy right? Or did they do it already in a sequel to Men in Black I haven't seen?

                              You nofollow guys are on the outside looking in in almost every other group of professional SEOs. its only in Im you can peddle the water from the washed hog.


                              But thanks anyway at least you and Jazbo are getting down to what I said all along was the real beef. My position on nofollow completely separate from this thread and before this thread.


                              Truth is refreshing no matter how grudgingly and backhanded the truth is finally admitted. See I didn't have to prove that you had a previous issue with me. You went right ahead and demonstrated it by bringing up the same previous debate in this one.

                              I hereby am officially bored. You all can bump it as many times you want form here on in. Denials, more character assassinations etc. The more people that read the OP the better. As one of the four would say - Flame on. I'll make my "subscription" to this thread expire as of now..

                              Incidentally I stand corrected about forums. I had no idea that when forum software was wrapped by a community it no longer qualifies as forum software. Interesting programming concept.

                              Priceless ...
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                            • Profile picture of the author Terry Kyle
                              To put aside all of the inflammatory rhetoric and focus on the issues:

                              In my experience...the Web is obviously in a constant state of evolution and today's Twitter can often turn out to be yesterday's Amstrad/Amiga (mixed metaphor that almost works there).

                              As long as linkbuilding is essential to ranking well in Google Organic results, backlinking will be an essential element for any Internet Marketer whose particular business model depends on decent Google Organic rankings.

                              From all of the different types of backlinks that I have experimented with, forums with decent TLD PageRank have given me the best SERP results. The possible exception to that could be contextual backlinks on high PageRank homepages - that's why I'm running a public experiment on that right now for my IM list where I have purchased 2 PR5 domains and 1 PR4 so far, and am reporting all my findings there.

                              Time will tell how effective these homepage backlinks prove.

                              Adaptation, experimentation and refinement on an ongoing basis in SEO is thus essential and I have no long-term allegiance to forum backlinks in themselves.

                              My loyalty is to results and providing the best possible information on my successes and (frequent) failures to my/our subscriber base.

                              If forum backlinks became ineffective tomorrow, I would migrate to the new Google 'darling' and continue with the above underlying principles of testing, trying and reporting findings.

                              Personally, I do like forum backlinks much more than, say, blog commenting because forum profile backlinks are a a fairly unintrusive form of linkspam (unlike blog commenting which is pretty aggressive and 'impolite').

                              However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't ditch forum profile backlinks tomorrow if they no longer proved effective.

                              I never dispute anyone else's SEO success or methods and only report what works and doesn't work for me (e.g. countless article directory backlinks were a massive waste of time and money for me even though, in theory, they should work and others seem to have had success with them).

                              Hopefully, I have always backed up my arguments with specific evidence in terms of (my) high ranking sites in Google.

                              In the case of the VB4 upgrade (and it's a real monster to come to grips with, by the way), let's see:

                              [1] How many forum owners upgrade to VB4 and, perhaps more importantly, how long it takes for them to upgrade. Nothing lasts forever in business and change is inevitable but for now VB is a fantastic source of backlinks and link juice.

                              [2] How big an issue default nofollow is on VB4. Given the cumbersome nature of VB4's control panel, I suspect that many/most who use it, will leave nofollow on. But then what percentage of current users of sub-VB4 will upgrade in the next year or 2 years?

                              I honestly don't know but when the picture emerges, some adaptation will probably be necessary.

                              In fact, one of the great strengths of Internet business (unlike 'offline' businesses) is the speed with which adaptation can be implemented.

                              In the case of our own forum backlinks, we currently work across 6 platforms so even if VB were completely knocked out tomorrow, we would shift to other platforms - or to a completely different type of backlink if Google decided to favour that more.

                              My own business philosophy is that I would like all of my clients/partners to still be with me 10 years from now because they get great results from my materials.

                              Whether those materials contain forum backlinks sites or any VB sites is irrelevant. It is the results that are consistently achieved that my allegiance is to when it comes to linkbuilding and SEO, not any particular platform or backlink type.

                              Hopefully that clarifies my position in this colourful debate.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                Originally Posted by Terry Kyle View Post

                                [1] How many forum owners upgrade to VB4 and, perhaps more importantly, how long it takes for them to upgrade. Nothing lasts forever in business and change is inevitable but for now VB is a fantastic source of backlinks and link juice.

                                [2] How big an issue default nofollow is on VB4. Given the cumbersome nature of VB4's control panel, I suspect that many/most who use it, will leave nofollow on. But then what percentage of current users of sub-VB4 will upgrade in the next year or 2 years?


                                Terry saw your name on this browsing the index and I knew I wanted to read your take on it. The only take that would get me back in here.

                                I appreciate your candor, honestly and straightforwardness. Its what I have liked about you particularly in your experiment thread. I've read your post twice and take no issue with it AT ALL. I tend to believe this version will get a good uptake going forward and envision as I said in the OP at least another year or more before getting big traction. Like I said in my very first sentence forum backlinking is fine and will be for awhile regardless.

                                Especially appreciate the candor in stating that the nofollow in VB4 will probably stick for most that upgrade. As I've said several times I use forum backlinks quite a bit too and am assessing going forward in my own system. I see no way going forward that I don't lose some links due to VB4 going nofollow and given enough time expect it be sufficient enough to address. Historically I can't see most forums never upgrading. They will at some point. I share your view of being committed to no technique but rolling with what comes and like your acceptance of things changing. I'm attempting to get an early grip on this change. i'm presently even addressing that for this months links in my system. Trying to get better balance.

                                Again thanks for your input. Not that you should or would care but I expected a different perspective from you as I stated and you did not disappoint ( and no I am not implying any broad agreements between us on any host of issues). Best to you man
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  • Profile picture of the author werner77
    If you want to be in this business in the long run, you need to have alot of RELEVANT diversified links. If your only focussing on one type of link then your going to wake up one morning and wonder what happened to your ranking.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedEvo
    I've skim read this thread - with the emphasis on skim - but I'm guessing there are two camps? Forum links should not count towards site reputation as they are irrelevant self promotion IMHO.

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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan6
    Digital Point has just upgraded to 4 and those links are still followed, so there is obviously a choice for the forum owners.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Oh and if you want to have a debate on Nofollow have the guts to put it in its own thread and I'll be there. Bring your stuff. This conspiracy hogwash won't wash

    Neither will you claiming I have to prove that there was no fifth shooter on the grassy knoll. You'll have to prove there was a fifth shooter not beg for one.

    Or of course you can make it here where you know I won't read it and has nothing to do with this thread. Safe bet you can win that one. Bye
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  • Profile picture of the author bigcat1967
    In short vbulletin is out to make outgoing backlinks nofollow.
    So what. NoFollow was a lie from the beginning. It's been proven that GoogleBot (at least them) ignores this attribute.

    I don't take stock in this NF rule - I've post links on both NF & DF sites and they work for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Battle of the backlinking WSO! If people would only learn to use Google and footprints there wouldn't be a need for any of these public profile backlinking packages...

    Mike, I really enjoy your posts even though I don't always agree (*cough*wordpress vs html*cough*) with what you say. They are usually based on researched reasoning/logic and not blind faith.

    You will never win an argument against someone who blindly believes no-follow links are worthwhile.
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    • Profile picture of the author jazbo
      Blindly? Do some testing, open your mind, you might be surprised at what you see happening.

      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      Battle of the backlinking WSO! If people would only learn to use Google and footprints there wouldn't be a need for any of these public profile backlinking packages...

      Mike, I really enjoy your posts even though I don't always agree (*cough*wordpress vs html*cough*) with what you say. They are usually based on researched reasoning/logic and not blind faith.

      You will never win an argument against someone who blindly believes no-follow links are worthwhile.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post


      You will never win an argument against someone who blindly believes no-follow links are worthwhile.
      Unfortunately I think you missed the point that most of us made in the other thread about no-follow. I certainly never stated that no-follow passes link juice or has any SEO fact. In fact, I think they probably don't. All I stated (and many others have stated), is that it is not a fact that no-follow does not pass link juice or have any SEO value.

      As an example,

      -- The Detroit Lions stink (my hometown) --> Fact
      -- The WarriorForum is PR4 --> Fact
      -- Matt Cutts looks better with a goatee than without --> Opinion
      -- No-follow doesn't pass link juice or helps in SEO --> Opinion (albeit, a very likely one, IMHO)

      I really don't think #4 should be that controversial.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      Mike, I really enjoy your posts even though I don't always agree (*cough*wordpress vs html*cough*)
      .

      . Guess what? I am reversing course but not for any reason mentioned in that thread or because of anything lacking in HTML. I'll get to that one day. I'll put that in the Mike Anthony Reveals thread L wilson is begging for. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    "No Follow," so what? Of course, you should have a balanced portfolio of links but just b/c a forum goes "No Follow" does not make it worthless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Becks
    What is it with the "balanced portfolio" thing? Who is going out and actually building nofollow links? Even if they built up Pr to your domain what good is does that do you unless you are site flipping? I mean am I missing something here? I am 100% certain that they have absolutely no effect on serps so why are people continuing to say thay they are still of use? Please enlighten me...
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  • Profile picture of the author xx Silver xx
    can you get backlink juice at all from website name only ?? on a forum profile.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    I bowed out of this thread but I think I just came across something so rich I had to share it

    After post upon post of attacks about the authenticness of this thread and how false the issue is could a simple image provide all the proof of the relevance of VB 4 going nofollow? In providing it I'll reanswer a question asked before

    Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

    BTW, did you catch who created that thread and why it was created? Someone read your sensationalist headline and slanted copy and inferred ideas from your tone and copy without understanding the issues involved,

    What would he have inferred from my alleged sensational headline? What issue would he have misunderstood?

    Well That some of the links he created in a vbulletin 4 forum would go nofollow because of the default nofollow in the Version 4.

    Now those of you who use firefox's plugin to determine nofollow or at least know of it can you tell me what this image means particularly the red/pink area that the nofollow plugin shows?


    http://www.relevancejuice.com/vbproof.jpg

    So am i reading that right? is the same forum that people are coming from and attacking this thread and me personally running VB4 and in fact showing their own profile links as nofollow? Say it aint so. No one could be that hypocritical. Somebody obviously thought they would be getting a good link from that forum and HERES THE KICKER the someone was the same person who asked the question and was told I WAS the one leading him astray.

    I mean its possible my nofollow plugin is on the fritz so I doubled checked and yeah poor sap has a nofollow link right were old Mike Anthony told him he would get a nofollow.

    So question. If a forum that pushes forum backlinking should and would be without the nofollow tag and yet has it because it runs VB4 what do you think is the affect it would have on the hundreds and thousands of forums where backlinkers are instucted to lie low because forum masters wouldn't want to see it there to begin with even before VB4?

    Couldn't turn out much better as far as I am concerned. The best example of the nofollow effect of VB4 comes from one the chief detractors of this thread's very own board that he runs. You guys are awesome!
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      I bowed out of this thread but I think I just came across something so rich I had to share it

      After post upon post of attacks about the authenticness of this thread and how false the issue is could a simple image provide all the proof of the relevance of VB 4 going nofollow? In providing it I'll reanswer a question asked before




      What would he have inferred from my alleged sensational headline? What issue would he have misunderstood?

      Well That some of the links he created in a vbulletin 4 forum would go nofollow because of the default nofollow in the Version 4.

      Now those of you who use firefox's plugin to determine nofollow or at least know of it can you tell me what this image means particularly the red/pink area that the nofollow plugin shows?


      http://www.relevancejuice.com/vbproof.jpg

      So am i reading that right? is the same forum that people are coming from and attacking this thread and me personally running VB4 and in fact showing their own profile links as nofollow? Say it aint so. No one could be that hypocritical. Somebody obviously thought they would be getting a good link from that forum and HERES THE KICKER the someone was the same person who asked the question and was told I WAS the one leading him astray.

      I mean its possible my nofollow plugin is on the fritz so I doubled checked and yeah poor sap has a nofollow link right were old Mike Anthony told him he would get a nofollow.

      So question. If a forum that pushes forum backlinking should and would be without the nofollow tag and yet has it because it runs VB4 what do you think is the affect it would have on the hundreds and thousands of forums where backlinkers are instucted to lie low because forum masters wouldn't want to see it there to begin with even before VB4?

      Couldn't turn out much better as far as I am concerned. The best example of the nofollow effect of VB4 comes from one the chief detractors of this thread's very own board that he runs. You guys are awesome!
      Sigh...why do you keep picking fights when they don't exist Mike?

      I am certainly not one of your detractors. I actually agree with 95% of what you say. The issue I have is that you pick a fight with everyone, even when there is no fight to pick. You just jump down everyone's throat for no apparent reason. No one is out to get you.

      As for our forum, Terry and I made a conscious decision to have signature links no-follow (until a user has a 10 posts and PMs either me or Terry). As Terry and I have said time and time again, how to setup a forum should be up to the moderators/owner. No less, no more. Every forum owner on the planet can make that decision for themselves. That does not contradict anything I have ever said on this topic. That's another fact.

      Why are getting so bent out of shape for no reason at all? Please just relax for all of our sakes.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

        Sigh...why do you keep picking fights when they don't exist Mike?
        whose thread is this Tom and you've been in it for awhile now along with people from your forum making all kinds of personal accusations. I don't recall going after anything you said until you did. Incidently PM terry because your own sig is Nofollow. You are way over 20 posts treat yourself or are you page rank sculpting? (just kidding- that isn't practiced anymore - and never was on external links)

        anyway appreciated Terry's response. No need to get back into another round with you . Just thought Id point that out for what its worth and that your own sig is nofollow as well. As Terry has already graciously admitted it is in fact difficult/cumbersome to get out of the default nofollow so yes I can understand why that would be set up that way on that basis but it still is indicative of VB4 to have it that way to begin with as the default setting . So I don't see the point evaporating regarding nofollow sticking on VB4 sites even if you refuse to concede it . Terry has already done so..

        As for not contradicting anything you say and do on and to other forums that would be a whole nother debate which shouldn't be in this thread or the accusations you've leveled for that matter but I'll leave it there. Never anticipated such a long thread for such a simple uncontradictable reality regarding VB4

        Incidentally if you do subscribe to other backlink sellers list (I never do and never would) please contact me. I don't want to confuse the thomas Goodwin I have viewing mine if it isn't you. I'd PM you but given our exchanges you might construe it about something else. (or if you would prefer to avoid contact then you can unsubscribe using Paypal). I'm not looking for any off board wrangling just don't think it s appropriate if it is you.

        Thanks and yes before the nofollow disagreement I remembered happier times. Maybe you can just ignore when I comment on Nofollow if you choose since even you think its more than likely true. I see it as a fact and until evidence is presented that contradicts that I will continue to hold that position. I am not going to write "I feel" for something so mainline SEO. that gives the newbie the impression that this mainline position is weaker than it in fact is and they waste time with it. You can see people talking about it counting as a fact on the boards. ambiguity isn't helpful to them. Sorry that you characterize not using "feel" or "think" as arrogant but thats the way it is. In SEO circles this is regarded a s a fact and a few people disagreeing doesn't mean everyone should bend away from it being a fact to suit the few.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Incidentally if you do subscribe to other backlink sellers list (I never do and never would) please contact me. I don't want to confuse the thomas Goodwin I have viewing mine if it isn't you. I'd PM you but given our exchanges you might construe it about something else. (or if you would prefer to avoid contact then you can unsubscribe using Paypal). I'm not looking for any off board wrangling just don't think it s appropriate if it is you.
      I don't need to avoid contact :rolleyes: I spend >$3,000 a month on automated monthly payments through paypal and probably don't actually use 75% of any of it anymore. Stupid, I know. I am just lazy about clearing out my paypal recurring stuff. To answer your question, I honestly don't know:confused: I'll do some snooping through my paypal records and if i do subscribe i'll fix it (and save me some $$)


      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Thanks and yes before the nofollow disagreement I remembered happier times. Maybe you can just ignore when I comment on Nofollow if you choose since even you think its more than likely true
      That's fair Mike.

      Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Thanks for taking care of that Tom. At least we can end on one good note.
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  • Profile picture of the author reapr
    Ok I am scratching my head again about the nofollow comments throughout this thread ... yes they do provide value and they are of value in SEO just depends on what SE your talking about. They can also provide a lot of traffic and a high PR nofollow my be indicative of some traffic if that PR page you place a link on has not been manipulated by SEO types and is fairly recent.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gary Becks
      Originally Posted by reapr View Post

      Ok I am scratching my head again about the nofollow comments throughout this thread ... yes they do provide value and they are of value in SEO just depends on what SE your talking about. They can also provide a lot of traffic and a high PR nofollow my be indicative of some traffic if that PR page you place a link on has not been manipulated by SEO types and is fairly recent.
      You might be right here. I have to say that I for one do not optimize my sites for any other search engines but google and as far as they are cconcerned they mean zilch...
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  • Profile picture of the author zoobie
    well. That's not bad news actually. Just means people have to find another way to do backlink rather than just Forums. I don't solely to use forums to build backlinks though.

    It just happen to people who just do one source of backlinking and never do others.
    It is NOT safe as in investment, doing business etc..

    You've just got to have a contingency plan always.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thoma$
      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      And Im sorry - but - if Adobe, Microsoft, the RIAA, et al cant make a dent in BH give aways - torrent downloads, serial cracks etc ... there are few IF ANY sellers here that have the horsepower to curb the theft / sharing of the products either.

      If your stuff aint getting stole -it might not be worth their time to bother cracking/stealing it.
      I agree with this. These BH idiots ruin the whole concept for everybody (I don't have anything against Black*hatters, I am one myself. Just against the ones sharing profiles packets.)

      Originally Posted by reapr View Post

      Great concept ... I do have a link farm to sell you from 2000-2001.

      You are right that the overspammed/oversold can do the job rather quickly but ...

      The thing I have noticed that many that I considered competitors that did not diversify back then and did the "link farms" only are no longer my competitors. The ones who diversified and I know who they are were linking in forums, articles, other sites, link farms and any place they could find a link. In other words they were diversified. In fact I can only think of about four competitors that are left in a very strong niche that returns 160 million results broad search. With all the first page competitors they are all using linking strategies that are from many different sources and many of those competitors are less than 2-3 years old!

      Don't get me wrong I find a lot of value in dofollow links but if a linking strategy is so narrow it is limited to one or two types of site backlinks it will severely limit your ability to survive long term. Google and other SE always change thier algo's and well ... it can kill off many sites based on a very narrow linking strategy very fast.

      In other words yes always do what works now but always diversify your link building strategy for the long term ...
      100% agree with this. I personally use all the strategies available (blog commenting, article directories, directories, PR release, blog posts, forum profiles/High pr profiles links, forum sigs, social networks, social bookmarking etc...). I know some are way more efficient than others but in the long run, who knows ? So I like to use them all and try to automate the process every time I can (vs reverse engineering competitors backlinks manually).
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Incidentally theres even more potentially bad news for backlinkers brewing. Got to keep up on this stuff for my subscribers best interest

    http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...5uDROOUgJU7LZX
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    • Profile picture of the author reapr
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Incidentally theres even more potentially bad news for backlinkers brewing. Got to keep up on this stuff for my subscribers best interest

      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...5uDROOUgJU7LZX
      Well I am not really that concerned we have seen changes that have threatened the industry so many times I have honestly lost track. 2004 was the worse of the changes IMHO but I would not call it devastating.

      What is white hat today may become black hat to the SE's tomorrow. I would rather spend my time moving forward than looking backwards and this is done by diversifying your links building.

      On a lighter note with many people creating all these backlink threads it may be time to create a separate forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author firstdandy
    Wow, Really that bad? Hope It's not that bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author p2y
    LOL I'm surprised this thread is still alive.
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    • Profile picture of the author netmatrix
      The lesson to take away from this thread is ... drum roll...

      Diversify your link building.

      I do agree with the OP and believe that the change to vb will have an effect to forum link juice, but its impossible to speculate just how much of an effect it will have. Google is constantly changing its algorithm and we as IM's must stay up-to-date with what is working right now by constantly testing and implementing.

      Do you know which of your link building strategies/campaigns is most effective?
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    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
      Originally Posted by p2y View Post

      LOL I'm surprised this thread is still alive.
      Haven't you heard?! The sky is falling!!
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