Why the Value of Massive Spam links is constantly declining in power

Yup, just like blog comment spam not working, which has been around for how long:rolleyes: None of these link building techniques are new. Xrumer wasn't created last month.

You are right Tom, backlinking is a continual process. Quick pumps/shots of backlinks are OBVIOUS to Google and they WILL shot any domain that are found guilty of doing so.

Not helping does not mean hurting.

I'd like to see the google algorithm that declares a blog reply
as spam, and rates another one as not spam.

Not liking blog comments overall is one thing. That I do think they
are going to. They tried the nofollow. People abused that and used
it in very inappropriate places.

Too many people look at backlinks, spam or not, and come to some
perception that google raises or lowers a site's SERPS on those links.
I don't think you can ever make that assumption. There are so many
other intangibles that go into the mix of why a site is #1 or #500.

As I said, I "kinda" agree with the premise that blog comments,
as far as helping rankings, are going the way of the 8-track.

Do I do them? You betcha!

Paul

There has been a lot of debate on the use of the word "almost" in that referenced blog post.

A lot of people, including myself, feel that in fact they were the word "almost" as a means of being an agnostic on the issue, as a competitor could, for instance, hack into your site, and install malware for instance. In such a circumstance, a competitor could actually hurt your site. Of course, such a circumstance is so far off the radar for most people and website owners that they need not be concerned with it. But, by using the word "almost" Google is in essence issuing a CYA for these freaky instances.

Google Page Level Penalty for Comment Spam – Rankings and Traffic Drop

Prove it.

replicate those results similarly more than once in a controlled environ - else this guys blog post is just an anecdotal coincidence... similar to the "sandbox" penalty and duplicate content theory.

Silly... Serious SEO's pffft ....

It all depends on what you want to do with your forum. Do you want your members to be able to have backlinks in their signatures? If so, you can set it up so that only after a certain amount of posts they are allowed to include links in their signature. If you don't mind taking signature links away from everyone, then just don't allow users to put links in their sig at all. People actively interested in your forum won't mind. For example, I don't have any links in my sig here. I come here solely to learn and teach what I can.

Another thing you can do to prevent a lot of it is to make forum members profile pages not publicly viewable. As an example, our Warriorforum profile found here is publicly viewable, meaning everyone including search engine spiders can see it. If you make member profiles private then spiders won't be able to see it, making it useless for people to put links in.

If you're having trouble with people making posts for their backlinks, you can institute the idea above. Make users have at least 50 posts before they are able to include links in their sig. It won't stop everyone, but I'd say at least 99% of people won't even bother if they have to make 50 posts to get links in their sigs.

Also, if you've got a really healthy forum, like this one, people will do a lot of your job for you by using the report function on spam posts.

LOL. Why wouldn't it be? You are freaking hilarious. No I will revise that - ROFL. I give you that. You come up with nothing to rebut the overwhelming evidence but think I would want to change it. You made my night man . Thats some funny stuff right there.

Incidentally where in the world do you guys learn your SEO? Forget me. Seriously anyone that follows you guys because you can run a bot over respected research sources like SEOmoz needs their heads examined.

Jazbo don't be so patently dishonest. You were in many debates I had WHILE I was selling a profile link package and you know perfectly well I was against MASS spam bots from then particularly ones that broke Captcha. You were right there with this same crew complaining against my position. Just like I have said often in this thread I said then - moderation. Anyone can go though my posts and see me making arguments against mass bots even then. You might disagree with my position but honesty should not have to suffer. Your re-invent nonsense is a plain lie.

Profile links are a way for young sites to get links, traffic and then noticed. I'm all for it in moderation but I am for building real businesses with return traffic and that have something people want to link to. Going forward when people get trained by you guys in the ways of mass bots they can't really say they have any security. If you rank on running a bot so can the next guy. It takes no skill. Quite a few of you know this as well. thats why you can see you buying links, domains with PR and other things. To the credit of some you have begun to teach your customers more than profile links but some of you have nothing else to offer. When i teach I try to teach people ALL about link building not over emphasized easy, played out no skill solution for everything. Part of that process is showing people the downside of one or another approach which I will continue to do despite your protests.

You're confusing the point. The OP had nothing to do with how well the site receiving the links does it was about what it does to the site that links out not in. Try again - this time by reading the OP. I've already quoted Rand 's studies on the premise of the OP. His research confirms it so you are stuck. Just not reading the thread is all.

Pure distortion. I never took a pop at Tom. Dennis took a pop at me and I said many sellers stopped frequenting Warriors. I referenced Tom as agreeing that many had stopped or reduced their posting.

All your other points in this thread are off since you obviously haven't read whats in it but are just intent on distortion. Anecdotal nonsense about what Wicked Fire forum posters say against respected research companies? Thats pathetic and worse no one is talking about the benefit to the spammers. Its the detriment of the spammed that the OP is about and the overall trend of that site losing link juice in individual links.

Constantly off point.

Look it may be shocking to your group but there are people who want to build businesses by showing respect to sites and not being on lists all over the internet of being captcha breaking spammers. None of you could do SEO for real companies with your tactics and you can't compete in any niche where real businesses are truly competitive. Thats a fact and that says it all.

Partnerships (formal and otherwise). Sure really big companies get it from advertising but many small businesses develop partnerships/relationships that make their customers link to them and other related businesses.

Nope. I advocate using the links at your disposal to start out with including profile links. I just don't advise on running the sites over because

A) Its not very nice of you and karma is a stinger
B and more importantly) when you get into the mass run em over mentality you lose out in the long run.

By the way great timing to answer both points raised. I just a few minutes ago got an email from a site. It was to inform me they were giving me a PR 4 link. Know why I got the opportunity? I didn't run the guys site over. I abided by his rules. I acted as a partner to what he was doing and trying to achieve. I've been on blogs where in a few minutes you could determine whether the owner/blogger is reasonable. Instead of trying to spam him and get my links deleted I joined in and struck up a relationship with him. I could do that because a bot wasn't doing everything. I saw the site and knew the opportunity that a bot wouldn't see. I got a link thats a nice addition to a link portfolio you could reverse engineer all you want you can't duplicate.

I don't care what the niche is except it was something I/my customer had an interest in (in this case it will be relevant) because I didn't have to fake interest in a way that people can see through as spam attempts. as to how an unrelated wrong/neutral anchor text link can still be used effectively? Figure it out

Works for forums too. I've build relationships with admins too. You can go ahead and spam them on your N/A profile page. that might help a bit but meanwhile I can post out in the open in a thread that has PR. I make sure its relevant and i don't abuse it. Look at warriors. Do you realize how influential Allen and Myers are? Many forum owners could send piles of traffic and sales to your site by recommendation but they won;t if you spam them. Again if a bot was doing everything I wouldnt see the opportunities. I can still use profile links AND I can get links on pages WITH actual PR because I am not setting a bot and walking away for hours at a time.

Answer your own question because it seems pointed like you think you know the answer. I don't know anyone that considers buying links as White Hat as you are fully aware since you've been in these debates before. You can spit on white hat all you want. I believe in balance and not running over sites. I do things that some wouldn't call white hat but my commitment has never been to stay in a label but to respect peoples property and benefit from the relationships that builds.

If an owner tells me he has a link spot and he wants me to pay for it I consider it. Its his site and his property. Do I rely on that kind of thing? No but I'll take it whether someone calls it white hat or black. I'm not violating the site.

So often white hat is just black hat with common sense and respect. Broaden your horizons instead of having a knee jerk reaction to everything that isn't black hat/Spam.

Where in the Op did I state to avoid all definition that people have for spam? Point it out to me. I could have sworn it was about hammering sites with bots not a post about all things that people consider spam.

I don't agree that all profile/forum links are spam. So the problem is yours not mine. I've seen too many forums where its quite allowed - including the one you are on right now (as long as its in your sig.). Are you arguing that signature links here are spam?

Angela had a great post about a year ago of what she considered abuse. Even though the site allowed backlinks she showed a screenshot of someone who had left like fifty or so backlinks on a profile page.

Point is just because a site is good enough to let you leave a link doesn't mean that you have to abuse it, circumvent their rules, break their captchas and send bots to post links. or leave so many links it degrades their site.

If a site allows you to leave a link or two and you use it to drop a thousand its abuse and closer to the point if a site says hey we'll allow you a link but just fill out the captcha as a real person looking and interacting with our site its still abuse not to do it just to leave your link.

the whole - you leave a link while showing respect for the sites wishes so it gives me the right to leave a link while not abiding by the sites wishes - is a lame excuse. Not saying you are necessarily saying so but watch if you don't see people seizing upon that old and tired argument as a justification for mass bot link spamming.

You got your answer. Now you try answering before demanding more then I'll answer again if you didn't get it.

Do you consider signature links here spam even though they are clearly allowed for?

please do take that lying to another forum where it will be taken with open arms. I never sold a bot. thats your invention. plus I never antagonized ANYONE using profile backlinks. in fact my OP never named any names. 33% right is a failing grade in any subject.

Is this a 5 minute argument or the full half hour.

Funny you should ask. I became bored half way through that last post of yours. At least when you were lying about me selling a bot it was more interesting . Now your just rambling making no point at all. have a good night man. See you soon.

Just like warriorforum and w!ckedfire (which incidentally is at the top of google for a lot of IM and IM forum related keywords..had to add the "!" cuz it is a banned keyword here I believe), i might add. Seems like a bit of a crusade to me. Hell, lots of the best products started at w!ckedfire. See: http://www.wicked fire.com/links-seo/ (space added so the keyword police won't nab it). 6 ads with Xrumer in the title on just page 1. Pretty sweet.

weak. Terribly weak.

I can almost predict what the next retort will be

You have some nerve showing your face in here and Not using some military lingo soldier! I thought for sure I would get some and you let me down. and then you drop this civilian video. Shame (I assure you I don't talk so fast but I do like the accent. lol)

Hey if you must check out KKchoon's product. Thats right if you are going to do it at least do it with someone who knows something. I Like the guy. knows his stuff and doesn't stick his head in the sand like an ostrich and make nonsensical SEO statements like some wannabe SEOs on here. Sure he and you do what I won't but he's not the dishonest kind to tell you you don't have a point when you have one but then he actually knows when you do and they don't.

Anyway more power to you man. Wish you the best.

I guess I don't follow your thought process after the "now the fun" introduction.

Why would they/we care? It is just work for you with no added value for you. I should start doing this to all my competitors sites and then you can start emailing them asking for payment It actually seems like a fun way to mess with my competitors. Thanks much. In any event, they were likely looking for the link only, not the pass through traffic from your site. Having the big red sign isn't going to do anything, but have fun with your side business.

If you are clarifying that now I have no problem accepting that but in post 141 you did quote me and responded directly to my quote. thas why I responded but its cool.

Thats not THE definition of white hat. For example a common white hat tactic is to contact a owner and ask for a link. Thats not natural. You are asking for it. Same goes for commenting If you go to a blog and add legitimate content, place your link and the owner approves it that is clean white hat. In that case you are going out and creating links promoting your site and its still whitehat

How long has blog comment spam been around? Probably since the very first blog allowed comments.

How long has Google known about blog comment spam? Probably since Google started its search engine. (1997)

Does blog comment spam still work? Yep.

So, Google has had 13 YEARS to account for it (like you wish they would at least), yet it hasn't. If by "eventually" you mean 2050, perhaps. But, Google seems more interested in teaching its computers how to drive cars around California on autopilot (sidebar: How the hell is that legal?) or coming up with that brilliant:rolleyes: Google Instant.


Google has never rewarded "natural" link building. They just haven't. Matt can preach whatever he wants about how he would get links, but at the end of the day, doing "unnatural" linking, like for instance using the same anchor text, works wonders. Getting links from "irrelevant" (whatever that means..i'm not sure where you draw the lines) works wonders., etc. In any event, Google won't penalize a site for incoming links as any competitor could simply send whatever links it wanted to, to competitors' sites and be #1 by default. At most, the big G would devalue or not count certain links (see note above on likelihood of that). I've got tons of sites that will happily take your spamming link love.

In any event, even if Google changes its algo, there will *always* be a way to game Google SERPs.

Tom

Thanks Catherine. Of course, i'm not really sure why I care. I really shouldn't. The more people believe in the myths the less competition I have. It is in my best interests to not fight it as much I guess

Tom

Lol. Yeah right. The "standard thinking of the masses" in Im is that if you push a button on a few bots you will dominate any niche and have ton loads of traffic so whats up Catherine ? Why does the average Imer throw in the towel in a few months because he can't get the traffic? And why do we find people every week who ran a whole ton of profilelinks that can't get to the top three? You are creating a strawman argument that almost no one embodies in this entire forum. No one says all those things don't work. You just made it all up to slant the table.

What your trainers won't be honest enough to tell you in this thread is you do need backlinks ON high Pr pages going forward and spambots can't give you that. Time consuming alternatives? Not needed? then ask your trainers why they BUY domains that have high PR just so they can put links on High PR PAGES to help them to rank their own sites? No? learn to run a backlink checker on your trainers OWN sites. they openly admit that elsewhere but in this thread they will act like Forum backlinks are all powerful and are not comparatively weak.

Time to cut the lying and fabrication in this thread and forum coming up with bogus nonsense like you only get backlinks on High pr domains you bought for backup. LOL. what a joke when you know perfectly well that its a "time consuming alternative" (of searching for domains from sellers that hasn't dropped, researching its background , verifying the numbers are real and BUYING the domain ) that has much huger payoffs than amassing a bunch of N/As.

So sure you can and should start out with links you can get easily but be prepared to do long tail and/or stayout of the way of well established business with plenty of natural backlinks. YOu CANNOT despite the hype of the backlink gurus rank in every niche with just profile links.

they've had three pages to say - you know what Mike I hate your guts but I got to admit getting on page High Pr backlinks from the site owners that you get is a great thing. Instead they fool people like you Catherine that its a time consuming alternative that will have your competitors leaving the market open for you. Good night this thread is awesome. LOL

Yo Diiig why ask me? You are a major proponent of spam bots. You know the drill. Fire up xrummer and let er rippp!

or could it be thats your backhanded way of saying that it doesn't work for that term? really strange isn't it? You would think that "Weight loss" would be an IMers dream to rank for. I mean theres got to be hundreds of Imers running xrummer round the clock on that one. but low and behold you can't find anyone ranking high on the first page of google for that term on the power of forum links.

Pssst

Lets talk soft so no one can hear. Try this - if you do random searches for all kinds of terms (not the ones in the gurus screenshots) most serps are ranked without relying heavily on profile links but don't tell anyone else in this thread. its just our secret. Apparently for some strange reason they use " time-consuming alternatives" . But wait a minute wasn't doing that supposed to leave the market wide open for you guys?

So rant about about poor little Mike and tell him how he's full of nonsense. See, enough people are going to agree with you but then when your way doesn't work for their niche and dreams (as is related CONSTANTLY in these forums) they'll say " you know what maybe that guy had a point after all". Mission accomplished not now but then

Meanwhile Mike A will continue to have and use profile backlinks merrily AND teach his customers the pros AND cons of them and how to use them to move on to bigger and better things instead of thinking of getting on page HIGH PR pages from webmasters as time wasting alternatives to blasting them for N/As. Bad little time wasting boy that he is.

You haven't seen me even once refer to my sites PR so lets not start another round of your distortions. I'm talking about getting backlinks FROM high PR pages and if you don't know that those are more powerful than zero what can I say?

Now as to your observation - true - in the serps you will see high Pr pages and pages with HIGH PR backlinks outranked for certain keyword phrases obviously because of relevance. No page can be relevant in all searches but don't get confused by the clap trap you read on these forums (or since you seem to choose to then be confused).

If a site has the same optimization on page and in incoming anchor text for the same keyword term a high Pr page will outrank a lower one all the time for THAT term and yes PR is the cumulative measurement of the quality of incoming links.