Google is Flawed - You Can Influence Other Sites’ Rankings With Backlinks | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

13 years ago

Amen brother. I picked one of the best performing pages on my site (it was in the top 10 but I can't remember where exactly) and decided to follow the backlinking advice on this forum to get it to #1. Instead it disappeared into total obscurity. It took 8 months for it to finally return to page 1, and that's in a very very low competition environment.

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BarryOnline

13 years ago

What kind of back links did you use & how did you manage to remove 6k?

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cagliostro

13 years ago

Not true. It just can't happen. Use your logic please.

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by cagliostro

Not true. It just can't happen. Use your logic please.

Oh it absolutely can happen. Just a word of advice from a guy who has posted many threads with proof on the subject. You will be making the page more valuable in the end. You'll be able to knock a page out and into oblivion for awhile but heres the key... IT WILL ALWAYS COME BACK, and when it does those links will count. Ive shown this proof a ton of times on this forum.

Google will penalize a page but all their penalties decay. How long does the penalty last? Depends usually between 30-60 days but sometimes can be up to 6-9 months. Just mark my words, you will be making this domain stronger in the long run.

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Cantbedone!

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Oh it absolutely can happen. Just a word of advice from a guy who has posted many threads with proof on the subject. You will be making the page more valuable in the end. You'll be able to knock a page out and into oblivion for awhile but heres the key... IT WILL ALWAYS COME BACK, and when it does those links will count. Ive shown this proof a ton of times on this forum.

Google will penalize a page but all their penalties decay. How long does the penalty last? Depends usually between 30-60 days but sometimes can be up to 6-9 months. Just mark my words, you will be making this domain stronger in the long run.

Agreed. Any large amount of suspicious activity can prompt a google dance (temporary fluctuation or even disappearance from serps) but where linking is concerned, the sites always come back eventually and usually stronger than they were before.

I wouldn't believe it either if I had not seen it so many times with my own pages that I blasted with links in the past. If you try to do this to your competition, you will only strengthen them in the long run. Give it time and I think you will see the same results.

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agmantz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Oh it absolutely can happen. Just a word of advice from a guy who has posted many threads with proof on the subject. You will be making the page more valuable in the end. You'll be able to knock a page out and into oblivion for awhile but heres the key... IT WILL ALWAYS COME BACK, and when it does those links will count. Ive shown this proof a ton of times on this forum.

Google will penalize a page but all their penalties decay. How long does the penalty last? Depends usually between 30-60 days but sometimes can be up to 6-9 months. Just mark my words, you will be making this domain stronger in the long run.

You are absolutely correct! Just continue backlinking.
This scenario happened to me.

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joulesverne 13 years ago

Neil: Just curious now that it has been over six months if your sites ever came backs, and if they did, how long did it take / what did you do?

Also, were your sites tanked for a single keyword or did you lose rank for all keywords? I noticed in the thread your theory was that google punishes individual pages for individual keywords, but it almost sounds as if your sites tanked for everything

That same question goes for MDSEO.

My two cents, from someone who has never posted on this forum but has been doing SEO for a while... it seems to me that a very unnatural link campaign can trip some sort of automatic google filter (obviously they are not watching your site individually, but their algorithms are and they keep track of keywords, keyword context, links, anchor text, anchor text context etc etc... why not speed / type of links?)

As someone said previously, variation is key... naturalness is also key. Vary the keywords, let your campaign start fairly conservative and grow (it can grow quickly though, from my experience) and you can very rapidly start pummeling it with links without hurting it.

I have used SENuke extensively. I have taken a brand new domain to second result for a keyword with 48,000 local monthly searches and 32 million competing websites in less than 2 months. No penalties, much dancing though. Sometimes it would drop for a week. The key was that I started with a second tier and hit that like crazy for a couple weeks. Then i started light campaigns against the main site. Then I started to really hit it hard for a solid month. Also, as this was one of my early endeavors I made the mistake of letting up on it after it was in the second result and it dropped pretty quickly to the second page until I started hitting it hard again. Took some time before it was securely there and I could ease up. This may mean that Google, interestingly, rewards large numbers of links all at once as long as they look natural. When you let up, it takes away that extra reward. If your links are very unnatural it seems it can and does punish you if your domain is not established.

This also makes sense in the context of tiers. Everyone says you should only use heavy duty blasts against your second tier. Why is this? Obviously a website is a website. Your second tier should be no less susceptible to de-indexing than your first tier. Your second tier adds a layer of protection, but If blasting a site gets you deindexed, all of these people would be blasting out their second tier that they worked so hard to build... obviously it wouldn't make much sense. However, what do people usually build their second tier on? Wordpres, livejournal, hubpages, squidoo etc... all second tier pages are built on established, old, strong domains. They rarely get blasted out.

Conclusion: given very strict stipulations, Google may punish a domain. I think this is clear from all the people who see their domain drop for 6-9 months. This is obviously not a dance. You could argue it is an algorithm change, but that does not explain the people who get 'penalized' and abandon their site only to find that 60 days later it was where they started. I have seen this testimony from many (though I have never experienced it myself). If your site is fairly unestablished and new, and you build backlinks that are clearly unnatural (i.e. tons of the same type of links without varied enough keywords on low/no quality sites suddenly appearing) then you may be punished. However, these are very strict stipulations... and that makes sense - at this point computers are still dumb and very poor at pattern recognition. Google is not God, and the amount of processing power that it takes to do those things that we know for a FACT that they do (as mentioned above) is enormous. I think they have automatic systems in place, but it is very hard to implement an automatic system that does not punish the good guys. Therefore, under strict circumstances you can shoot yourself in the foot. Although, most of these things seem like they would be newbie mistakes anyway.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Barry, the links where from other properties I own on the internet.

Cagliostro, do you have a site less than 6 months old that I can send links to?

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cagliostro 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Cagliostro, do you have a site less than 6 months old that I can send links to?

No need for you to do that, because i have done it myself already. Apart from some up and down, didn't do anything huge.

I have send all kind of Fiverr EDU, Pyramids etc etc.
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Doug Pretorius 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Barry, the links where from other properties I own on the internet.

I think that's the main issue. I've never seen a link coming from someone else have this effect. It's all this artificial link building stuff we do to ourselves, I think google can tell the difference between 10k people creating 1 link to your site each vs. you creating 10k links to your site. At best google ignores them, at worst they punish you for trying to manipulate the algo.

However, google doesn't mind at all if you create a good internal link structure. Internal links are some of the best you can get too.
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PatrickP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Barry, the links where from other properties I own on the internet.

Cagliostro, do you have a site less than 6 months old that I can send links to?

NICE!

It is called put up or shut up. Let him send you back links so you can find out for yourself.

If you wont let him prove it then I guess you are afraid it actually COULD happen.

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paulgl

13 years ago

You people mix up cause and effect so many times....

Backlinking causes your site to sink in ratings.

Such BS.

**You get piddly backlinks to your piddly sites, and come
up with all sorts of hallucinations.

Please. Stop backlinking. You will make the internet a better place,
and the rest of us will benefit from your lack of effort.

People just can't get over the fact that google owes you nothing,
could care less about you and your sites. And they don't
take you personally. Period. They don't have a man behind the
curtain following your every move. No matter how important on
the internet you think you and your websites are.

Anybody who peddles this nonsense is just pushing more voodoo
SEO.

You people need to get a grip on reality.

Repeat: Please. Stop backlinking.

Google is flawed - to the tune of billions of dollars in record profits.
If only they would hire their engineers from here....they would be so much
more successful....silly flawed google...

Paul

**Feel free to copy this anywhere.

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ExploringInfinity

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

You people mix up cause and effect so many times....

Backlinking causes your site to sink in ratings.

Such BS.

**You get piddly backlinks to your piddly sites, and come
up with all sorts of hallucinations.

Please. Stop backlinking. You will make the internet a better place,
and the rest of us will benefit from your lack of effort.

People just can't get over the fact that google owes you nothing,
could care less about you and your sites. And they don't
take you personally. Period. They don't have a man behind the
curtain following your every move. No matter how important on
the internet you think you and your websites are.

Anybody who peddles this nonsense is just pushing more voodoo
SEO.

You people need to get a grip on reality.

Repeat: Please. Stop backlinking.

Google is flawed - to the tune of billions of dollars in record profits.
If only they would hire their engineers from here....they would be so much
more successful....silly flawed google...

Paul

**Feel free to copy this anywhere.

Copy and paste. / quote.

Thanks for posting it Paul

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MaverickUK

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

You people mix up cause and effect so many times....

Backlinking causes your site to sink in ratings.

Such BS.

**You get piddly backlinks to your piddly sites, and come
up with all sorts of hallucinations.

Please. Stop backlinking. You will make the internet a better place,
and the rest of us will benefit from your lack of effort.

People just can't get over the fact that google owes you nothing,
could care less about you and your sites. And they don't
take you personally. Period. They don't have a man behind the
curtain following your every move. No matter how important on
the internet you think you and your websites are.

Anybody who peddles this nonsense is just pushing more voodoo
SEO.

You people need to get a grip on reality.

Repeat: Please. Stop backlinking.

Google is flawed - to the tune of billions of dollars in record profits.
If only they would hire their engineers from here....they would be so much
more successful....silly flawed google...

Paul

**Feel free to copy this anywhere.

Wow, it's safe to say that you don't have a clue what you're talking about, Paul. Go back to your article and forum marketing and leave the SEO'ers to their profitable businesses.

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1 reply

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guitarjosh

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

Wow, it's safe to say that you don't have a clue what you're talking about, Paul. Go back to your article and forum marketing and leave the SEO'ers to their profitable businesses.

Wow. That was constructive.

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MaverickUK 13 years ago

Originally Posted by guitarjosh

Wow. That was constructive.

Oh right and I suppose his post was? This thread is full of people who seemingly don't have a clue what they're talking about, frustration has apparently got the better of me.
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MDSEO

13 years ago

i spent 1,000s of hours building backlinks etc... and now sites that have like 2 backlinks rank higher then me, this just happend within the past like 4 weeks my site dropped from 1 on some of my top keywords to like 45... F U google!
go figure i have a new baby "and now my business has had like zero calls over the past 3 weeks due to this latest panda update" google really did a number this time....... im pissed

Originally Posted by paulgl

You people mix up cause and effect so many times....

Backlinking causes your site to sink in ratings.

Such BS.

**You get piddly backlinks to your piddly sites, and come
up with all sorts of hallucinations.

Please. Stop backlinking. You will make the internet a better place,
and the rest of us will benefit from your lack of effort.

People just can't get over the fact that google owes you nothing,
could care less about you and your sites. And they don't
take you personally. Period. They don't have a man behind the
curtain following your every move. No matter how important on
the internet you think you and your websites are.

Anybody who peddles this nonsense is just pushing more voodoo
SEO.

You people need to get a grip on reality.

Repeat: Please. Stop backlinking.

Google is flawed - to the tune of billions of dollars in record profits.
If only they would hire their engineers from here....they would be so much
more successful....silly flawed google...

Paul

**Feel free to copy this anywhere.

Thanks
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zannix 13 years ago

I don't know if you can get your site penalized by building low quality backlinks, but I do know this:

I've stopped building backlinks to my site for quite some time, and after ranking #1 for its keyword for 4 months, it started going nowhere and back, every 2 weeks or so. And this is not a "Google Dance", because "Google Dance" occured earlier in the link building process, after which my rank has been stable.

Yesterday, it's rank #1 again. And I'm not doing absolutely anything...

There's something to consider.

Kind Regards,
Zannix
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timpears

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Barry, the links where from other properties I own on the internet.

Cagliostro, do you have a site less than 6 months old that I can send links to?

I have a hard time believing this. So how do these blog networks do so well? Matt LeClare makes a bundle with his WSO getting people on the first page of Google. And there are two people named Mike, not sure of their last names though, who do similar. A few long threads on private blog networks were here recently and they were very interesting.

I think if you had just left the links, your site would have done fine. You were probably just doing the Google dance. Usually from what I hear, the sites that do that will return and end up higher in the SERP. You just didn't wait long enough.

But believe what you want. It is up to you. The logic just doesn't support your theory though.

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Tim Pears

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TheAdsenseGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by timpears

But believe what you want. It is up to you. The logic just doesn't support your theory though.

Belief has nothing to do with it. Have you ever done SEO before? I have. I know what he's saying is true because I've actually tested it.

Maybe you should too?

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheAdsenseGuy

Belief has nothing to do with it. Have you ever done SEO before? I have. I know what he's saying is true because I've actually tested it.

Maybe you should too?

I say otherwise from my own experience. You go ahead and believe what you want to believe. I have so many new sites that I have ranked using massive links that it really makes this entire thread look silly.

I'm not going to get into how many links we can generate in an hour but given the fact we now have 35 servers and 5000 site blog network you can do the math from there. But the amount is considerable.

Given our fire power you would think I would know whether or not it was possible to torch a competitors site.

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I say otherwise from my own experience. You go ahead and believe what you want to believe. I have so many new sites that I have ranked using massive links that it really makes this entire thread look silly.

I'm not going to get into how many links we can generate in an hour but given the fact we now have 35 servers and 5000 site blog network you can do the math from there. But the amount is considerable.

Given our fire power you would think I would know whether or not it was possible to torch a competitors site.

Try using a scrapebox blast auto approve list around 120,000 blogs with 90% of the same anchor text and I assure you there will be a penalty on a site 6 months our younger. Guaranteed, no doubt... Do it, come back to this thread and be honest.

Yea 5000 blogs with a good reputation isn't anything thats gonna ring a ton of bells.

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Garrett Rogers 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Barry, the links where from other properties I own on the internet.

Cagliostro, do you have a site less than 6 months old that I can send links to?

Yes, I am looking for a good backlinking method. Please respond. Thanks.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I think that's the main issue. I've never seen a link coming from someone else have this effect. It's all this artificial link building stuff we do to ourselves, I think google can tell the difference between 10k people creating 1 link to your site each vs. you creating 10k links to your site.

You'd think so wouldn't you? But the inbound links came from sites hosted in a completely different Geo-location, on a different IP address and using a different CMS platform to the 2 money sites. All sites have Whois Guard and there is absolutely nothing linking the sites together.

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unnatural

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

You'd think so wouldn't you? But the inbound links came from sites hosted in a completely different Geo-location, on a different IP address and using a different CMS platform to the 2 money sites. All sites have Whois Guard and there is absolutely nothing linking the sites together.

Whois Guard doesn't do any good for protecting against Google's eyes - they are a registered domain registrar.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Oh it absolutely can happen. Just a word of advice from a guy who has posted many threads with proof on the subject. You will be making the page more valuable in the end.

Thanks dp40oz.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Wow Paul, I sense a stressed man behind your post.

A tad harsh, not to mention pointless don't you think? Is your blood pressure and the risk of a stroke not important to you?

Same offer to you my stressed little friend. Give me a site less than 6 months old and lets find out.

Oh and just so you and I are clear, I've never once claimed that Google owed me or my 'piddly' little site anything. If you carefully read back over my initial post, maybe take a deep breath and relax before you do though, you'll see that this isn't a rant about how my life is now doomed because my 'piddly little site' has vanished.

I have no interest in how many billions 'silly flawed Google' has made either.

I do however, have a huge amount of interest in wether or not I can have a direct impact on competitors rankings for personal profit and gain.

Just so we are clear.

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paulgl

13 years ago

Google does not give as many "penalties" as people dream up.
Very seldom, if ever, anything resembling a penalty even comes
up.

But people use these fantasies as an excuse for any search results
being changed. Google changes on split second basis. The results
are dynamic. There is nobody watching and making sure your site
falls. Even though many people think they are that important to
the web. They're not.

Cause and effect are so friggn' mixed up here...it's pathetic.

It can't be because google discovered better sites at the moment.

It can't be because other sites got updated.

It can't be because dynamics in searching changed.

It can't be because a tweak in an algorithm.

It can't be anything else except google penalizing my site.

Dream on. Google does not take a personal interest in YOUR site no
matter how important you think you are.

It just has to be that big, bad, flawed google *sniff* I just know I
have the best site *whimper* and if they don't like it, I must be
*wiping tear drop* getting penalized!

Paul

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Google does not give as many "penalties" as people dream up.
Very seldom, if ever, anything resembling a penalty even comes
up.

But people use these fantasies as an excuse for any search results
being changed. Google changes on split second basis. The results
are dynamic. There is nobody watching and making sure your site
falls. Even though many people think they are that important to
the web. They're not.

Cause and effect are so friggn' mixed up here...it's pathetic.

It can't be because google discovered better sites at the moment.

It can't be because other sites got updated.

It can't be because dynamics in searching changed.

It can't be because a tweak in an algorithm.

It can't be anything else except google penalizing my site.

Dream on. Google does not take a personal interest in YOUR site no
matter how important you think you are.

It just has to be that big, bad, flawed google *sniff* I just know I
have the best site *whimper* and if they don't like it, I must be
*wiping tear drop* getting penalized!

Paul

Paul you are just straight up wrong about this! If you really believe this then put up or shut up. I will guarantee I can get a page on one of your sites penalized easily. Give me any page that is less then 9 months old. Lets do it, because you are SOOOO CONFIDENT!

You can sit behind your computer and keep making irrelevant, uneducated posts that blatantly lie with no factual basis to other members of this forum or you can do actual tests and show results. Google absolutely does penalize websites. They do it constantly. This has been proven many times and you have commented on these particular threads as well saying the same old "blah blah blah proof means nothing, Google is rich and the most brilliant thing in the world and is never wrong, they owe you nothing, stop whining and just do nothing to promote your websites because it bothers me blah blah".

JESUS man you even admit that you don't build backlinks yet somehow you are an authority on how Google reacts to link building. You never offer anything constructive to anyone here. You complain that everyone is wrong and you never prove any of your points other then just screaming your cranky old man opinions. If you want to keep spreading lies fine. If you want to help others out and tell them the truth, give me a page and let me show these other guys how a penalty really works sir. I am confident I will prove my point. I am also so confident that not only will you be penalized but a month or so from now you'll be thanking me for the ranking boost. I KNOW THIS AS FACT BECAUSE IVE TESTED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

Wow! 6 months!

I blasted my site with scrapebox and it disappeared for a couple of days.. Then came back stronger than ever!

I'd just like to point out that this wasn't the result of any sort of blast, Xrumer, Scrapebox/board or anything similar.

The site was around 6 months old, QDF effect had long died off, Google dance from initial backlinking had settled and the site was enjoying a steady #1 ranking in Google.

You can see from the stats below that the site flatlined from around 400 uniques per day to 0. Pretty amazing really!! It's not a google dance where you'd expect to see some spikes here and there. Also, searching for the domain without the suffix doesn't show the site in the results:
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rahmanpaidar

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

I am also so confident that not only will you be penalized but a month or so from now you'll be thanking me for the ranking boost. I KNOW THIS AS FACT BECAUSE IVE TESTED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

You complain about Paul is confident while you are also yourself confident

Ok, let's take a breath. Seriously I think this can't be called "penalize".
As you stated you can penalize a page for a month then it will boost.
So I won't call it penalize. This seems to me an algorithmic ways of google life.

The similar situation is also happening for Google +1 in GWT. When a new
visitors vote your pages, you will see a fallen down to zero graph for a
few days in GWT then all things get back to normal leaving you a few more votes
showing up in the graph.

People are right to name this unnamed phenomenas as "penalize", "google dance",
and any other fancy names they like since google was unable to name them

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by rahmanpaidar

You complain about Paul is confident while you are also yourself confident

Ok, let's take breath. Seriously I think this can't be called "penalize".
As you stated you can penalize a page for a month then it will boost.
So I won't call it penalize. This seems to me an algorithmic ways of google life.

The similar situation is also happened for Google +1 in GWT. When a new
visitors vote your pages, you will see a fallen down to zero graph for a
few days in GWT then all things get back to normal leaving you a few more votes
showing up in the graph.

People are right to name this unnamed phenomenas as "penalize", "google dance",
and any other fancy names they like since google was unable to name them

I see your point but it is a penalty. Since when does a penalty have to last forever to be a penalty? I use the timeframe of a month just as an example. Sometimes it can last 6 months. Sometimes 4 months depends. It is Googles version of jail. Thats the same way it works in the regular world. You do your time then you go back to where you started. Why can't this be called a penalty? Also a month is a huge amount of time when one of those pages is making you $50-60 a day.

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rahmanpaidar

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

You do your time then you go back to where you started. Why can't this be called a penalty? Also a month is a huge amount of time when one of those pages is making you $50-60 a day.

Let's not forget that our sites are part of a network of billions websites
and pages. Your ranking is dependent on other sites ranking.
When a site linking to your site lose its ranking, your site will also hit
depends on how your site is dependant to that site. This is one of the
reasons why people can not see any improvement after a lot of hard
working.

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Nero Arcnumé

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

It is Googles version of jail. Thats the same way it works in the regular world. You do your time then you go back to where you started. Why can't this be called a penalty?

The reason it can't really be called a penalty is that you get to "keep the spoils garnered from the crime" so to speak. If you rob a bank in real life and get out of jail, can you just go on with your life and enjoy the millions you stole? Usually not. But after you get out of Google's prison, you get to keep the power of the backlinks as the profits start trickling in.

I suppose it could be seen as a penalty if you're blasting a page from #10 to #8, seeing only a marginal increase in profits eventhough you had a month or more downtime. But if you're going from #3 to #1, I'd say a month or in some niches even months of downtime can be worth the increased visitors, profits and the potential for expanding the website.

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PatrickP 13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Google does not give as many "penalties" as people dream up.
Very seldom, if ever, anything resembling a penalty even comes
up.

See here is proof they do not. A google employee telling how it really is so don't blame google.
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jasonthewebmaster

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Google does not give as many "penalties" as people dream up.
Very seldom, if ever, anything resembling a penalty even comes
up.

But people use these fantasies as an excuse for any search results
being changed. Google changes on split second basis. The results
are dynamic. There is nobody watching and making sure your site
falls. Even though many people think they are that important to
the web. They're not.

Cause and effect are so friggn' mixed up here...it's pathetic.

It can't be because google discovered better sites at the moment.

It can't be because other sites got updated.

It can't be because dynamics in searching changed.

It can't be because a tweak in an algorithm.

It can't be anything else except google penalizing my site.

Dream on. Google does not take a personal interest in YOUR site no
matter how important you think you are.

It just has to be that big, bad, flawed google *sniff* I just know I
have the best site *whimper* and if they don't like it, I must be
*wiping tear drop* getting penalized!

Paul

I totally agree. The "Penalties" everyone complains about are usually not true. In fact, Google has NEVER publicly said their algorithm's penalize sites... yet everyone thinks they do.

The fact is, your backlinks probably have nothing to do with your loss in rankings. It could be a million other factors. Most likely, your competition is doing something right that you are not, and that is why your site is now lower in rankings.

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outwest

13 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonthewebmaster

I totally agree. The "Penalties" everyone complains about are usually not true. In fact, Google has NEVER publicly said their algorithm's penalize sites... yet everyone thinks they do.

The fact is, your backlinks probably have nothing to do with your loss in rankings. It could be a million other factors. Most likely, your competition is doing something right that you are not, and that is why your site is now lower in rankings.

Rightttttttttttttt
you are ranking 1, or 2 for 6 months all the sudden you drop to page 100

must be something your competitors ALL decided to do at the same moment
all 100 pages of competitors, this cant be a google penalty, hahahaha

do you know how dumb that sounds

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36burrows

13 years ago

Look I know there are mixed opinions on this so I can only provide my own experience.

I had also had a site ranked on page 1 getting over 600 visitors per day. I decided to try an "Xrumer" blast to try and solidify the ranking.

Within 24 hours after the "Xrumer" blast, my site was gone. All my traffic was gone as well.

It stayed this way for about 6 months before it finally returned.

Call it "Google Dance" or whatever you want, but the fact is that the site vanished and therefore all revenue stopped for 6 months and the only cause is the xrumer blast.

So anyone claiming that these backlink blasts don't affect your site, I'm sorry but you're wrong.

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satrap

13 years ago

Originally Posted by 36burrows

...Call it "Google Dance" or whatever you want, but the fact is that the site vanished and therefore all revenue stopped for 6 months and the only cause is the xrumer blast...

I am just trying to understand this, how would you determine that the only cause is the xrumer blast?

I mean, the explanation could be as simple as a " coincidence", couldn't it?...

Of course, I couldn't prove that either, but you see what I mean though!Since, I dont know how exactly Google works, I am not taking anyone's side here. But from a logical point of view, what you said is a bit puzzling to me. Although I can understand and see why, you would think that.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Unnatural, thank you. That is something I didn't know.

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ryanjk13

13 years ago

Wow! 6 months!

I blasted my site with scrapebox and it disappeared for a couple of days.. Then came back stronger than ever!

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

The premise of the OP is utter nonsense. We have run over 5000 successful seo campaigns in the last 15 months and nothing we have seen supports the claims being made by OP.

It is impossible to be penalized by Google from backlinking. Period.

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

The premise of the OP is utter nonsense. We have run over 5000 successful seo campaigns in the last 15 months and nothing we have seen supports the claims being made by OP.

It is impossible to be penalized by Google from backlinking. Period.

Really, would you like me to show you proof?

Did a Massive Senuke run in 1 day after no link building for weeks. I did this run on June 10th and July 10th.

On June 28th I was testing an auto approve Scrapebox list.

Article Marketing robot blast all in 1 day on June 13th after very little link building the last few months.

This my friends is what they call the "Sandbox". These gentlemen don't have to believe it but it does exist and it is very real. Also notice the last example. I put this in just to show how once the penalty does "decay" you get the link power from those links that penalized you.

The misconception is that there is a "link penalty", there is only an "unnatural link building penalty". You get penalized for building links unnatural and its like going to the penalty box in hockey. They keep you locked up for a little bit then let you loose, the type of links you build will never effect your site its how fast and when you build those links.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

The premise of the OP is utter nonsense. We have run over 5000 successful seo campaigns in the last 15 months and nothing we have seen supports the claims being made by OP.

The amount of campaigns you've executed is irrelevant. You no doubt have tried and tested methods that work.

Same offer goes out to you and your comrades my friend. Give me a domain to target. One that's ranking #1 and less than 6 months old and lets find out.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Before talking **** about a topic you obviously know very little about you should at least learn how to resize your images so they fit the formatting of the thread.

It will make your argument at least look intelligent.

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PatrickP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Before talking **** about a topic you obviously know very little about you should at least learn how to resize your images so they fit the formatting of the thread.

It will make your argument at least look intelligent.

100% true. If you don't know how to resize pics then you obviously do not know what you are talking about. harumpffffffffffff

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by PatrickP

100% true. If you don't know how to resize pics then you obviously do not know what you are talking about. harumpffffffffffff

And the fact that I have grabbed 5000+ page one rankings in 15 months obviously proves I know very little on the topic.
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- dp40oz 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mattlaclear
  
  And the fact that I have grabbed 5000+ page one rankings in 15 months obviously proves I know very little on the topic.
  
  No, its the fact that you say there is absolutely no such thing as a link penalty which is not true, there is. That does not diminish your skills at SEO 1 bit. You are clearly accomplished just not fully accurate in this 1 instance. Thats all. Just like resizing an image shows nothing about someones intelligence when it comes to link building penalties.
  
  I too have hundreds of page one rankings, not thousands just yet but I swear to god I still don't know exactly what an RSS feed really does in the real world even though I deal with them everyday. Its just 1 thing I am not that well versed in. Doesn't really make me any less competent.
  
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trytolearnmore

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Before talking **** about a topic you obviously know very little about you should at least learn how to resize your images so they fit the formatting of the thread.

It will make your argument at least look intelligent.

Easy there Matt... there is no need for this language (even if he is wrong).

King regards,
Andrii

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Before talking **** about a topic you obviously know very little about you should at least learn how to resize your images so they fit the formatting of the thread.

It will make your argument at least look intelligent.

No offense, but didn't I see you asking people in another thread just a few days ago how to embed a video into a message? And I believe that people were all too quick to jump in and help you out.

I don't think the size of the image or layout of the thread had anything to do with the argument.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Resizing my image will add to an argument about SEO?

Thank you for your constructive addition to this thread.

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commoditytrainer

13 years ago

Google doesn't penalize many sites as so many claim, but one thing I would never ever do is get 6000 backlinks to a site in six months. I don't care how great it is, my buddy does the same and runs into some trouble with Google Serps.

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PatrickP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

And the fact that I have grabbed 5000+ page one rankings in 15 months obviously proves I know very little on the topic.

WHAT?

I was agreeing with you ya guru you.

We gotta get rid of the damn sh1t talkers Mark. Together we can clean up WF!

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Here you go Boss Man. I hope this meets with your approval:

If you click on it something really really clever happens :-)

Do you want me to add a little unsharp mask to the image? Maybe a bit of Gaussian Blur or perhaps you'd like me to convert it to duotone to print on a two colour lithographic press?

Anything else you'd like just ask :-)

Do you have a domain for me yet?

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Here you go Boss Man. I hope this meets with your approval:

If you click on it something really really clever happens :-)

Do you want me to add a little unsharp mask to the image? Maybe a bit of Gaussian Blur or perhaps you'd like me to convert it to duotone to print on a two colour lithographic press?

Anything else you'd like just ask :-)

Do you have a domain for me yet?

Much better. See how easy it is to learn something new?

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Here you go Boss Man. I hope this meets with your approval:

If you click on it something really really clever happens :-)

Do you want me to add a little unsharp mask to the image? Maybe a bit of Gaussian Blur or perhaps you'd like me to convert it to duotone to print on a two colour lithographic press?

Anything else you'd like just ask :-)

Do you have a domain for me yet?

I thought his original images were better. i did not have to click on them to see what they were about.

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billaaa777

13 years ago

Sorry to tell that your logic is wrong. If Google would penalize a site for blasting to many backlinks in a short period, there would be blasting wars taking place.

All you would have to do is send a few Xrumer blast at your competitors to take them do. Google doesn't penalize sites for too many links too quickly for that reason.

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by billaaa777

Sorry to tell that your logic is wrong. If Google would penalize a site for blasting to many backlinks in a short period, there would be blasting wars taking place.

All you would have to do is send a few Xrumer blast at your competitors to take them do. Google doesn't penalize sites for too many links too quickly for that reason.

For new sites with not much trust it does. Send me some of your competition for easy to medium keywords i'll let you know if there is some I can knock out for you. It does work, ive done it. Like I said though they usually come back stronger when the penalty decays. I originally learned that the hard way.

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theverysmartguy 13 years ago

The people who are saying that they get a penalty from blasting a bunch of links towards a page see it drop off. Sure it does, then it comes back even STRONGER; which is what you were saying as well.

How is that really a penalty? Sure, it drops off for a bit; that is what people call "the google dance".

I have never seen "the google dance" happen with a consistent building of high quality links.I've only seen a steady increase in rankings, never a downward spiral. And with these quality links that I build, I see myself rise higher than the ones with thousands or even tens of thousands of links. Most of those links are obviously low quality, which is what you get with those link blasts anyways.

So if you don't want to see yourself get "sandboxed" or a drastic dip in rankings, then why not just get high quality links to your site instead of these link blasts?

-- Jeff
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- cagliostro 13 years ago
  
  I always enjoy such posting as the original.
  
  Reminds me of threads like "if i don't check my adsense account for days ... it seems i get more clicks and money".
  
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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

The only thing that you'll get is short term SERP bounce from crappy backlinks, so what's the big deal?

50 hand built PR5+ backlinks will counter the silly link blast of profiles, & bring the page right back to page #1 in the SERPs.

As far as the OP challenge, If a site is six months old or less & ranking #1 in the SERPs for their keyword, that tells me the keyword was easy to rank for to begin with. That also tells me that chances are very high they didn't have to do much work building the backlinks it took to rank #1 in the SERPs.

So your going to bounce a site that already has weak backlinks?

It's not a penalty!

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

The only thing that you'll get is short term SERP bounce from crappy backlinks, so what's the big deal?

50 hand built PR5+ backlinks will counter the silly link blast of profiles, & bring the page right back to page #1 in the SERPs.

As far as the OP challenge, If a site is six months old or less & ranking #1 in the SERPs for their keyword, that tells me the keyword was easy to rank for to begin with. That also tells me that chances are very high they didn't have to do much work building the backlinks it took to rank #1 in the SERPs.

So your going to bounce a site that already has weak backlinks?

It's not a penalty!

Coming in very late, but MMO took less than 6 months to hit #1, FWIW.

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36burrows

13 years ago

I don't think we will come to a conclusive agreement here. Too many mixed opinions.

But I think we can all agree on this: don't buy 20k spammy backlinks and expect anything good to come out of it.

consistent quality links > short-cut spammy links

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ExploringInfinity

13 years ago

Originally Posted by 36burrows

I don't think we will come to a conclusive agreement here. Too many mixed opinions.

But I think we can all agree on this: don't buy 20k spammy backlinks and expect anything good to come out of it.

consistent quality links > short-cut spammy links

Those spammy links can be great as a 2nd or 3rd tier of backlinks though...

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Kiril S

13 years ago

It is because people only get low quality backlinks that are mostly spam, and that influences their sites rankings.

Google is smart, and if a steady website that is already getting high quality natural backlinks gets bombarded by his competitor with spammy backlinks, he will experience a small Google dance which will probably improve his ranking. The key here is diversity.

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beakon

13 years ago

This has been a controversial topic for me over the past few months post panda. Im still doing some extensive testing but so far I have not been able to identify a pattern that obviously hurts a site that I wouldn't attribute to just a dance.

Ive managed to sandbox a few of my sites, but I have no clue what did it as there were many plausible variables.

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John Williamson

13 years ago

I won't recycle what Paul, Matt, and Yukon have said already (I agree with them completely on this), but here's some math for you folks...

Having a math degree, there are a couple things that come to mind related to this topic, the first being a "conditional" statement in regards to propositional logic. As Matt said, the OP assumes a false premise. The main thing to remember is that correlation does not imply causation.

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Williamson

I won't recycle what Paul, Matt, and Yukon have said already (I agree with them completely on this), but here's some math for you folks...

Having a math degree, there are a couple things that come to mind related to this topic, the first being a "conditional" statement in regards to propositional logic. As Matt said, the OP assumes a false premise. The main thing to remember is that correlation does not imply causation.

Ugghh Im bowing out of this. People love to chime in without looking at facts. Just because you've never been penalized does not mean they don't exist.

Look at the 3 examples I posted. This isn't any sort of correlation/causation BS its cold hard facts. I can show you the link building campaigns I did and I can show you the next days ranking penalties. It is what it is. Whatever it is, believe what you want. Doesn't matter anything in the end. What works for me works for me, what works for you guys works for you.. As long as we're all making money, thats what matters. As for the gentlemen ive argued with in this thread, I am pretty sure we all are, so whatever it is it is.

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iAmNameLess 13 years ago

boring... so who wants to spam out links for me? I'll take the free juice.
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Cantbedone!

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Williamson

I won't recycle what Paul, Matt, and Yukon have said already (I agree with them completely on this), but here's some math for you folks...

Having a math degree, there are a couple things that come to mind related to this topic, the first being a "conditional" statement in regards to propositional logic. As Matt said, the OP assumes a false premise. The main thing to remember is that correlation does not imply causation.

And if I may...

This vehement paroxysm has undoubtedly exacerbated my ingeminated attempts to reach a definitive conclusion and have thus catalyzed a chord of dismal failure....

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Cantbedone! 13 years ago

But seriously folks..

It looks like the links were not the problem after all. This does not surprise me. I have had pages tank in the serps before without any visible ryme or reason. It has happened numerous times and I was not even building links at the time so there are definitely other factors that are not easy to pinpoint. Additionally, I have used many linking services ranging from ultra spam to high quality and I have never seen a negative impact that did not eventually go away.

I'm not going to tell anyone what to believe but I certainly don't buy that backlinking is going to destroy your site. It never hurt any of mine. If anything, it will waste your time and money by providing you with no measurable benefit. Any sinking in the serps is either temporary or was caused by something else in pretty much every case I've observed.
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- cssitkt 13 years ago
  
  Just to add a bit more heat to this debate:
  
  3 of my sites received the following message from Google which coincided with a complete loss of rankings. Around 50% of the links were created by Matt's service and at the time of the penalty/filter/message, whatever you want to call it, the link building service active was Matt's. The sites were all at least a year old, had PR 4 and between them had 65 keywords on page 1.
  
  Google Webmaster Tools notice of unnatural links detected to yoursite.com/ February 26, 2012
  
  Dear Site Owner or Webmaster of yoursite.com,
  
  We've detected that some of your site's pages may be using techniques that are outside Google's Webmaster Guidelines.
  
  Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.
  We encourage you to make changes to your site, so that it meets our Quality Guidelines. Once you've made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google's search results.
  
  If you find unnatural links to your site that you are unable to control or remove, please provide the details in your reconsideration request.
  If you have additional questions about how to resolve this issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.
  
  Yours sincerely,
  
  Google Search Quality Team
  
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Paul's a little rough/abrasive and a bit of a jerk in his posts, but I think he's spot-on in this case. It seems a bit self-absorbed to say that Google in any way focuses on what you (we) are working on. When you think of the MASSIVE amount of data Google is trying to categorize it helps put it in perspective, I think.

Still, the OP could argue that Google wasn't doing anything to them particularly and that they may have a built-in penalty into one of their many algorithms that penalizes this or that. Again though...same rule applies...why wouldn't we just do this to all of our competitors and put ourselves on top?

OP, I could take you up on that challenge maybe...there are quite a few competitors I'd like to do away with...I won't give you my site...I'll give you theirs!

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TheAdsenseGuy

13 years ago

Yes, a ton of crappy links can penalize your site!

I actually can prove it. In the past I've built over a hundred websites and ranked most of them on page 1 of google using my own strategy of backlinking. So about 5 months ago, I bought a WSO and decided to try out his backlink method. BAD IDEA.

I had 10 new (less than 2 months old) Amazon type sites and most of them were already ranking on page 2 to 3 of Google search after using my own backlinking method.

So the jist of this WSO's method was to buy 2500 forum profile backlinks and blast my sites with them. So I did that to all 10 at the same time. I blasted the homepages of all the sites.

Then, within a week, 7 out of the 10 sites completely dissapeared from Google search (they were all on page 2-3). For about 3 months the sites were completely gone from Google search and I was even building high pr backlinks to try to get the sites back, but it wouldn't work.

Finally after about 3 months, all 7 sites mysteriously came back in Google. They came back in about the same spot they were before they dissapeared (page 2-3). Having a site dissapear for 3 months is not the Google Dance, it's a penalty!

Now I can guarantee you, if I had a 1 year old site and blasted it with shi**y forum profile backlinks nothing would happen to my site. Google trusts older sites. But a new site has to earn googles trust - with age.

So is that a good enough "cause and effect" case study for you??? I did exactly the same thing with all 10 sites and 7 of them got penalized. There were no other issues that could have caused this.

I agree with the OP. If you have a new website and you don't believe Google does this -- give him your url. Your site will get penalized - and after about 3 months your site will come back.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Now ask yourself this, instead of crappy profile links what do you think would have happend to your new site with 2500 PR5+ backlinks?

Do you really think the new site/page would vanish from the SERPs? :rolleyes:

I can tell you right now it wouldn't vanish, the reason is the high PR backlinks are trusted pages. The PRn/a profiles are pages that Google has never seen before your backlinks were blasted.

It's not a penalty, it's Google trying to figure out your new position with backlink pages that havn't been given a PR yet.

You would be better off blasting your backlinks at 2500 PR0 than all PRn/a pages. At least Google has already judged the PR0 pages & knows they exist. Still, sooner or later all the PRn/a profiles will be indexed & cached, it just takes more time because the profile page sucks & Google knows it considering most profile pages have zero backlinks outside of it's own domain.

Originally Posted by TheAdsenseGuy

Yes, a ton of crappy links can penalize your site!

I actually can prove it. In the past I've built over a hundred websites and ranked most of them on page 1 of google using my own strategy of backlinking. So about 5 months ago, I bought a WSO and decided to try out his backlink method. BAD IDEA.

I had 10 new (less than 2 months old) Amazon type sites and most of them were already ranking on page 2 to 3 of Google search after using my own backlinking method.

So the jist of this WSO's method was to buy 2500 forum profile backlinks and blast my sites with them. So I did that to all 10 at the same time. I blasted the homepages of all the sites.

Then, within a week, 7 out of the 10 sites completely dissapeared from Google search (they were all on page 2-3). For about 3 months the sites were completely gone from Google search and I was even building high pr backlinks to try to get the sites back, but it wouldn't work.

Finally after about 3 months, all 7 sites mysteriously came back in Google. They came back in about the same spot they were before they dissapeared (page 2-3). Having a site dissapear for 3 months is not the Google Dance, it's a penalty!

Now I can guarantee you, if I had a 1 year old site and blasted it with shi**y forum profile backlinks nothing would happen to my site. Google trusts older sites. But a new site has to earn googles trust - with age.

So is that a good enough "cause and effect" case study for you??? I did exactly the same thing with all 10 sites and 7 of them got penalized. There were no other issues that could have caused this.

I agree with the OP. If you have a new website and you don't believe Google does this -- give him your url. Your site will get penalized - and after about 3 months your site will come back.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

TheAdsenseGuy.

I think this is where people get confused as to cause/effect. See, you're SURE that it was due to these backlinks from the WSO's you purchased, but let me bring up a few points you might (or might not have) considered. I'm not saying any of these points are valid, I just doubt that you've X'd them all off the list of possibilities:

1. Algorithm change - How do you know it wasn't a broad change on Google's end?
2. Your previous backlinking strategy - Are you sure all of your previous backlinks were indexed/realized? Maybe it was from YOUR strategy? (Not likely, but a possibility)
3. Your sites not as relevant - Maybe the sites that were outranking yours temporarily were better, had work done, etc?
4. Why only 7? If you're sure it's the backlinks that did it, why would it only apply to 7 and not 10?
5. What other backlinks (natural or otherwise) were created to the sites around the same time period that you may or may not be aware of?

Think about it this way...let's say you were responsible for moving 20 tons of sand to create/design a man-made beach. You have to find a way to collect the sane, transport the sand, sort through it to clean it up, level it out on your new beach, etc.

Your websites are 10 grains of that sand. Why were 7 of them left behind on the first truckload and then brought in the next batch? It's definitely not likely that the guy designing the man-made beach had any interest or thought in your particular grains...

(Ok, not the best analogy, heh)

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StoneWilson

13 years ago

Have seen soooooo many threads argue about this topic, no comment.

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 13 years ago

If you want to know how much faith some folks have in their argument, simply scroll through the thread and see who has put up a site for the OP's challenge. Pretty much says all that needs to be said.

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

OK, so lets get this thread back on topic.

The links I buiilt were not blasts from Xrumer, Scrapebox, Scrapeboard or similar. Like some of you, I've been there, done that. I've built 20 million #1 rankings, yada, yada, yada and all that BS.

I may only have 100 or so posts since I joined 2 yrs ago but that's because I contribute only when I have something to say, I have 2 ears and once mouth and unlike some of you, I know how to use them proportionally. I don't have a Maths degree, I do know how to resize images and more importantly, I think I've stumbled across a backlinking technique that WILL negatively affect a site less than 6 months old.

So the question is, which one of you non believers is going to give me a domain to try?

It can't be a competitors domain, otherwise I'd just go ahead and do this myself and that's not really on. I think its for the greater good of the community don't you?

Surely some of you who have built 16 million #1 rankings and couldn't possibly be wrong have a teeny wheeny iddle piddle 6 month old domain ranking #1 for a given keyword going spare??

Or do you just talk the talk on IM forums, getting hot headed when people disagree with what you believe, because you've read it somewhere else online???
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PatrickP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

If you want to know how much faith some folks have in their argument, simply scroll through the thread and see who has put up a site for the OP's challenge. Pretty much says all that needs to be said.

Here is a guy who has been here since 2006. So not a troll or a newbie.

I agree 100%

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

If you want to know how much faith some folks have in their argument, simply scroll through the thread and see who has put up a site for the OP's challenge. Pretty much says all that needs to be said.

****...okay I'm game. I'll create a new site today and will post the link here on this thread once it is set up. Then I'll begin driving it to page one. I dare anyone to try to stop it.

It will have all unique content with no outbound links to link farms. Want to see how fast it will reach page one?

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

In fact I already have a new site ready we just created:

Welcome to Weight Loss Diet Tips

The keywords we are targeting are fairly robust. After we tweak the on page optimization this afternoon I'll let everyone know what the keywords are.

Once the site gets to page one I will have proven my point. Right?

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Once the site gets to page one I will have proven my point. Right?

Not quite. My sites tanked after about 3 weeks of creating the links. Once you're ranking #1 I'll add the links and let you and everyone else know they've been added. The we wait 3 weeks or so and see what happens. If your site doesn't tank then yes, you will have proved your point and I'll be the first to say well done, you was right.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Not quite. My sites tanked after about 3 weeks of creating the links. Once you're ranking #1 I'll add the links and let you and everyone else know they've been added. The we wait 3 weeks or so and see what happens. If your site doesn't tank then yes, you will have proved your point and I'll be the first to say well done, you was right.

I could give you a list of 500 such sites that are new and on page one but I protect my clients keywords. The 100 other sites I own are all over a year old so they won't work either.

But if I have a client reading this who gives permission to share their site I'll guarantee them an upgrade from page one to a top 3 ranking.

PM me clients if you want to be included in the experiment.

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guitarjosh

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

In fact I already have a new site ready we just created:

Welcome to Weight Loss Diet Tips

The keywords we are targeting are fairly robust. After we tweak the on page optimization this afternoon I'll let everyone know what the keywords are.

Once the site gets to page one I will have proven my point. Right?

LOL.. good on you. This site will get a ton of attention if this experiment moves forward and is only going to reap the benefits. Good luck trying to stop it.

Hey.. can the dude throw some of those junk links to a new site I create free too? I love it when guys do my marketing for me.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't pick the biggest kid on the playground to pick a fight with.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by guitarjosh

LOL.. good on you. This site will get a ton of attention if this experiment moves forward and is only going to reap the benefits. Good luck trying to stop it.

Hey.. can the dude throw some of those junk links to a new site I create free too? I love it when guys do my marketing for me.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't pick the biggest kid on the playground to pick a fight with.

I'm game for that too. Give me the link publicly here and we'll do an experiment with your site as well.

In fact the next 10 Warriors who want in on the same deal can. I'll give you free links and we'll dare anyone to drop it in the serps.

The only caveat is that your site needs to be less than six months old and you also have to be willing to share your link publicly along with your keywords.

When you do I will create a new thread and we'll begin the experiment. Remember the test is not to see if we can drive the site to page one. But whether or not they can be derailed once they do get there.

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ulcseminary

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I'm game for that too. Give me the link publicly here and we'll do an experiment with your site as well.

In fact the next 10 Warriors who want in on the same deal can. I'll give you free links and we'll dare anyone to drop it in the serps.

The only caveat is that your site needs to be less than six months old and you also have to be willing to share your link publicly along with your keywords.

When you do I will create a new thread and we'll begin the experiment. Remember the test is not to see if we can drive the site to page one. But whether or not they can be derailed once they do get there.

Does the domain need to be less than six months old? Or just the site?

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by ulcseminary

Does the domain need to be less than six months old? Or just the site?

I'll let the OP define those parameters.
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copyassassin

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I'm game for that too. Give me the link publicly here and we'll do an experiment with your site as well.

In fact the next 10 Warriors who want in on the same deal can. I'll give you free links and we'll dare anyone to drop it in the serps.

If this is still open, I'd like to join.

The site is:
My Blog | Just another WordPress site

On-Site SEO To Be Done:
Later Tonight

Content Will Be Added:
Later tonight and for the next 9 days (1) 600 unique article per day.

Created:
Two Days Ago

Keywords:
[tax audit]
[irs audit]
[tax relief]
[wage garnishment]
[tax levy]
[tax resolution]
[tax problems]
[taxpayer advocate]
[what is audit]
[tax lawyer]

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ruchikars

13 years ago

Great stuff for information with comments and all views. thanks for all views, comments and post.

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dagaul101

13 years ago

It's always a good idea to find out where your site is being placed, especially with several thousand backlinks in a short period, that just says an inevitable penalty, unless those backlinks somehow seem natural

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summerfranken

13 years ago

Originally posted by Yukon
The only thing that you'll get is short term SERP bounce from crappy backlinks, so what's the big deal?
50 hand built PR5+ backlinks will counter the silly link blast of profiles, & bring the page right back to page #1 in the SERPs.
As far as the OP challenge, If a site is six months old or less & ranking #1 in the SERPs for their keyword, that tells me the keyword was easy to rank for to begin with. That also tells me that chances are very high they didn't have to do much work building the backlinks it took to rank #1 in the SERPs.
So your going to bounce a site that already has weak backlinks?

Its quite right..

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

As far as the OP challenge, If a site is six months old or less & ranking #1 in the SERPs for their keyword, that tells me the keyword was easy to rank for to begin with. That also tells me that chances are very high they didn't have to do much work building the backlinks it took to rank #1 in the SERPs.
So your going to bounce a site that already has weak backlinks?

With Christmas on the way, that's a lot of sites which can be taken out of action, no?

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

OK, so here's the stats for the other site. Not so much search volume but you can clearly see when the penalty hit. The site currently resides at postion 926 for the desired key phrase.

(Please note: The image has been resized to make my argument look intelligent - I can also embed a video into a message, I'm quite clever like that :-) )

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Fraggler

13 years ago

Neil, I stopped reading after this post as it looked like it was getting even more out of hand.

There is a bit of talk on Webmasterworld about this penalthy/filter and it dates back to years ago.

I have had the same thing happen to my sites but I'm not sure what caused mine.

My experience happened back in the May Day update last year where quite a few historically strong sites (not just my sites but many others) were all pushed back to the last few pages of the search results.

These strong sites were being beaten by very irrelevant sites: you know, the ones that once you get past page 5 ot 6 stop actually being anything about the original search query. These strong sites were on the front page for a long time and now were beaten by junk. It was a filter, not a penalty where you lose a set number of spots, because it appeared obvious to me AND others that these previously strong results were simply moved off the front page to the last (around 900 to 1000).

My site returned about 6 months later to previously high results. I forgot about the site during that time as I thought it was a lost cause. The only change I made was removed my Link Farm Evolution network and all links on it.

No idea what is causing your problem but the fact your page is being returned in the last few pages of results says to me that your site is being filtered and that you don't simply have an under optimised page.

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

OK, so here's the stats for the other site. Not so much search volume but you can clearly see when the penalty hit. The site currently resides at postion 926 for the desired key phrase.

(Please note: The image has been resized to make my argument look intelligent - I can also embed a video into a message, I'm quite clever like that :-) )

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markowe

13 years ago

I find it odd that anyone still disputes the effects on a site of a large influx of low-quality links in a short space of time, putting it down to coincidence, algo changes and whatnot.

I would say it's more about your interpretation of what's happening - do we call it a penalty, a recalculation of your ranking, or something else. But I have seen this happen waaaay too many times to call it coincidence.

Also, you might like to venture over to the dark side and see what the bl@ckhatters get up to - a number of this fraternity have succeeded in dumping competitors' sites down the SERPS by spamming them with low quality links. What is usually lacking there is a follow-up 3 months later to see if it's still there. I am also pretty sure those links only help in the long term.

But whether you call it a penalty, sandbox, or something else, the phenomenon is definitely real. Or to put it another way, I won't be doing it on any of my sites anymore. Yes, they can be dug out again, but it's not worth the hassle - slow and steady wins the day.

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

Hi Mark. Great post :-)

The way I see it, I believe I've received an automated penalty because I tripped an over optimisation filter due to what I did. The penalty has a time length after which time the site may return to it's previous ranking or there abouts (it was #1 for the 5 key phrases I was targeting).

What I'm not sure about is wether or not the same penalty would be reapplied once the time length of the existing penalty expires and if so, how many times the penalty will be reapplied before expiring for good. This may explain the various time lengths of penalties experienced by others.

For example, let's say the penalty expires after 30 days. If the links remained in place would the penalty automatically be reapplied for another 30 days, maybe x 6 times before expiring for good, resulting in a 6 month penalty?

I've removed the links in the hope the site will pop back up after 30 days, but it will be interesting to see what happens.
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cooler1

13 years ago

The people in this thread who say a site cannot be penalised for blasting, why don't they take the OP up on his offer?

Surely it makes sense as in your eyes you'll be getting free backlinks which cannot harm your young site.

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oldvintageguy

13 years ago

I'm too "newbie" to know who's right and who's wrong, but we humans absolutely LOVE to find patterns. What's that story -- back in caveman days, if we think we see a lion in the forest, even though it's just a pattern in the trees, we run, and we live. But if we think it's just a tree-pattern, and don't run, but it turns out it's a lion....

Point is, I see patterns ALL the time. And I've totally (in my mind) personified the search engines (i.e. man behind the curtain w/wand). Threads like these bring me back to reality, and I enjoy them.

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Fernando Veloso

13 years ago

Soooo...

Google ranks sites based on backlinks. Right?

Glad we agree on that one. Uff!

The above statement is good to ensure one thing: if Google uses backlinks to evaluate a site power, it's quite obvious it will use same ALGO on backlinks to evaluate the kind of backlinks showing up:

are they good?
bad?
how many per day?
in same niche?
profiles? (do you really believe a webmaster will create 5K profiles in different forums to promote his site??)
etc etc etc

And this is where I believe Google uses his algo to evaluate WHAT kind of links are getting thrown to a site.

EVALUATION.

5K Profiles in one week? Alert.
20K comments in 4 days? Alert.

Why? Cause it's so damn unnatural, even a cow could see that. Thats why I makes sense SOME backlinks can really hurt SOME sites.

Not all sites, not all the time.

^^ This is the relevant part.

This **** happens often BUT not to everyone and NOT all the time.

Example: I can send daily 1K spamish links to a new site for 3 months and it never gets hammered. BUT I can also do the same to a different site and it gets nuked fater then a bullet.

I don't defend one side or the other: just wanted to drop my personal opinion on how I believe Google uses a total random algo features to nuke SOME sites using SOME different backlink techniques.

In the end, it's a big problem cause Google's ALGO features are so random, it's impossible to know for sure what, when, and why.

And this is exactly what Google wants.

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guitarjosh 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Why? Cause it's so damn unnatural, even a cow could see that. Thats why I makes sense SOME backlinks can really hurt SOME sites.

You are making a sweeping generalization. I could grab a field of 200 cows and start putting food out 100 yards away and you would be surprised how many of those cows would come running. Cows don't see as poorly as you might think.
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

This thread represents what has become so pathetic about this board.

A bunch of people running around attacking the Op because they haven't done any research and just regurgitate the same old garbage.

GET OVER IT PEOPLE TIMES CHANGE THERE IS EVIDENCE YOU CAN GET SLAPPED FOR BACKLINKING.

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...after-all.html

read the links there and weep. Not only has Google sent out letters but site owners have SEEN their rankings plummet after getting the letters. Stick your head in the sand. Crappy links may very well affect you. The old come back will nevertheless still be offered.

"If thats the case then I can tank my competitors site blah blah blah"

No you can't not if the site has other quality links in their link portfolio but if all the site has are junk xrummer links in their portfolio do you really think Google gives a rip if they disappear from the serps? So its not quantity really its quality. You are not going to see a site tank after getting incontext links from blogs etc. You will get it with these garbage forum links nonsense and if you get detected as buying links. the letters that started going out to webmasters in June spell it out and people have seen their rankings go with it. Play ostrich all you want. Facts are still facts

and another thing stop this bogus nonsense about it will come back in 6-9 months stronger. What business on the planet can afford to have no customers for 6-9 months after every promotion they do for their business? Thats like Timmy claiming he wasn't really punished because the teacher allowed him to take his seat back after an hour in the detention corner.

I'd love to tell my customers. Hey guys don't worry about it . I did such a great job for you that you will be able to start making money again in 6- 9 months. Keep me on the payroll until then :rolleyes:

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paulgl

13 years ago

Apples and oranges Mike.

Everyone pointed to JCPenney as a classic google penalty.

It wasn't. It pushed JCP to the top. Then google had to act
due to bad publicity. They de-valued the links. Note: De-valued.
JCP went back to its natural position. That's not a penalty.

But that's google acting on a much publicized site. Not gonna
happen for Joe Shmo's site.

Cause and effect are still so much confused.

I'll repeat. Saturday hit NY with a hurricane. So, are we expecting
another one this Saturday? Or the fact that it was Saturday has
no effect on a hurricane? If you think that's silly, then why do
we do the same for SERPs?

But at least Mike and Fernando add some more thinking here.
No reason why we can't have a spirited debate!

There may be penalties. There may be penalties for some linking.
But unless you are JCP and a few others, your site is just not
worth google giving a rat's behind about. Too many people put
2 and 2 together and get 5. And make statements that they
just know google personally took their site and squashed it.
Fat chance.

Paul

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

****...okay I'm game. I'll create a new site today and will post the link here on this thread once it is set up. Then I'll begin driving it to page one. I dare anyone to try to stop it.

It will have all unique content with no outbound links to link farms. Want to see how fast it will reach page one?

Good Man. Keep me updated so I know when to flick the switch ...

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Good Man. Keep me updated so I know when to flick the switch ...

You should go first. That way you can see the links actually help the rankings not hurt them.

Besides if what you say is true I'll pay you $10,000 to sink a few sites I'd like out of my way.

Just isn't possible.

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

You should go first. That way you can see the links actually help the rankings not hurt them.

Besides if what you say is true I'll pay you $10,000 to sink a few sites I'd like out of my way.

Just isn't possible.

To really test this though, shouldn't the site be actually ranking for something first? Then blast it.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Besides if what you say is true I'll pay you $10,000 to sink a few sites I'd like out of my way.

Just isn't possible.

Yo Matt . It would take a few million dollars considering the amount of sites on the first pages in your way Don't know why you are taking this up though. the possibility hardly applies to in in context links
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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Apples and oranges Mike.

Everyone pointed to JCPenney as a classic google penalty.

Paul ocassionally do some reading. No one said a thing about JCpenney. That happened over 6 months ago. What I am referring to happened in June and if you bothered to do any research you would see people lost ranking after getting those emails sent out by Google. Backlinks forum even had a guy that layed out exactly what happened to him.

thats called evidence. Now can you claim that it wasn't really that email and that there was a third shooter on the grassy knoll that actually took the site down? Sure. Maybe even aliens took out JFK but when you get a message from google about your unnatural links instructing you how to seek a reconsideration and then your serps take a dive i think reasonable people will see that and think - oh hey - they just might be connected.
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ilee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Cause and effect are still so much confused.

I'll repeat. Saturday hit NY with a hurricane. So, are we expecting
another one this Saturday? Or the fact that it was Saturday has
no effect on a hurricane? If you think that's silly, then why do
we do the same for SERPs?

Right in that example it would seem ludicrous however someone else's claim was that 7 out of his 10 websites dropped majorly in ranks after using exactly the same backlink blasting.

Now if a hurricane hit NY 7 saturdays out of 10 and only on saturdays I would be pretty inclined to avoid NY on saturdays do you agree?

I think I read earlier in this thread someone that said it may be the competitors that have done something to beat the website and lower its rank... Now what about the websites that drop about about 50 pages for 6 months then come back. Based on this "idea", around 500 competitors would have to of done something a lot better than the website, and then the website to do something to beat the 500 competitors again 6 months later ending up in the exact same spot!

Now I haven't personally seen any of my websites drop majorly, but I build good backlinks at a normal rate so I can't really back any claims up but this is just my 2 cents after reading the thread

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ichl13

Right in that example it would seem ludicrous however someone else's claim was that 7 out of his 10 websites dropped majorly in ranks after using exactly the same backlink blasting.

Now if a hurricane hit NY 7 saturdays out of 10 and only on saturdays I would be pretty inclined to avoid NY on saturdays do you agree?

I absolutely, 100% disagree with this. While I DO agree I might avoid NY overall until the hurricanes die down, having hurricanes only on Saturdays is ridiculous. With everything we know about hurricanes it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

Let me give you another scenario:

Let's say a crazy person was saying that Aliens from the planet Gururon were going to come down and infect all the newly born babies (10 of them) in a small hospital with the Slafilaxilous virus. Within a week 7 of those 10 babies got sick. Would you want your baby hanging out with those other babies? (Probably not...I wouldn't) But...would you believe that it was the aliens from Gururon? (Of course not...)

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Try not to get confused between a manual and algorithmic penalty Paul.

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JoshuaG 13 years ago

I'm just gonna jump in here quick and point out an invalid argument/comparison that people keep trying to make.

People are suggesting that google doesn't have the time/resources to respond to linking patterns if the size/perspective value of a given site isn't "high enough".

Example:

But unless you are JCP and a few others, your site is just not worth google giving a rat's behind about.

Google cares about providing relevant, high quality SERPS. The same technology/bots/algorithms would be used to generate relevant SERPS regardless of the size/perspective value of a given site.

Google doesn't have to have an expressed interest in a particular site in order to apply its algorithms and adjust rankings accordingly. That's just what search engines do to return relevant results!
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

To really test this though, shouldn't the site be actually ranking for something first? Then blast it.

Absolutely. The site has to be ranking #1 for a given key phrase otherwise the excercise is pointless.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Matt,

I've just sent an email to the email address from the whois record for the domain. Please reply to confirm you're happy for me to do this and then we are all set.

Thanks.

Also, please can everybody else refrain from sending links to the site. I don't want to 'dilute' the links I'll create. As I've already mentioned, these links ar not blasts.

Thanks

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Shakakka

13 years ago

I would say it's more about your interpretation of what's happening - do we call it a penalty, a recalculation of your ranking, or something else. But I have seen this happen waaaay too many times to call it coincidence.

Also, you might like to venture over to the dark side and see what the bl@ckhatters get up to - a number of this fraternity have succeeded in dumping competitors' sites down the SERPS by spamming them with low quality links. What is usually lacking there is a follow-up 3 months later to see if it's still there. I am also pretty sure those links only help in the long term.

But whether you call it a penalty, sandbox, or something else, the phenomenon is definitely real. Or to put it another way, I won't be doing it on any of my sites anymore. Yes, they can be dug out again, but it's not worth the hassle - slow and steady wins the day.

I agree 10000000% here with Mark. I run about 35+ websites at this point, and have tried all kinds of different linkbuilding methods for each. I've seen more than a few of my sites get BURIED in this type of sandbox, and almost every time it happens I pretty much know what I did to get it there.

"Penalty" might not be the word, but a drop in rankings is a drop in rankings. Especially a dramatic drop to established websites that have already been ranking highly for certain keywords and phrases.

This has happened TOO MANY TIMES to be coincidence.

I don't know anything about the dark-hatters but I wouldn't doubt for a single second that they could use this exploit to produce fast and measurable results in burying the websites of their clients competitors, at least long enough to get paid for their efforts.

Finally I'll point out that people like Mattaclear MUST disagree with this type of viewpoint, as his whole business revolves around building super-fast links. Of course he's the first to champion the whole "backlinking can never hurt you" argument, because he's the one selling backlinks.

And Matt, no offense bro, I've always found many of your comments professional and helpful. Just saying you'll naturally have a bias here, when it comes to this argument.

EDIT: Also I'd hazard a guess that it's easier to rank new websites using quick backlinking and get that #1 position in a hurry, but that maybe (and I'm admittedly speculating here) this type of linkbuilding method might do more damage to older and more established sites. I'm curious to hear what people think on that.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Try mixing up your anchor text.

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PatrickP

13 years ago

Are words misspelled on purpose on that website?

Is that part of SEO?

Serious question as I see numerous mistakes but I have heard you should do that as people misspell words when doing google searches.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't pick the biggest kid on the playground to pick a fight with.

LMAO! I just read your post whilst taking a mouth full of beer and coughed it out through my nose because I laughed so much. Seriously, you're joking right? Please tell me that's a crank post and you're not really kissing ass that much??

But yes, I'm very happy to build the links for you. No need to ask me in the third person in a post directed at Matt, all you have to do is give me the address and confirm you own the site.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

LMAO! I just read your post whilst taking a mouth full of beer and coughed it out through my nose because I laughed so much. Seriously, you're joking right? Please tell me that's a crank post and you're not really kissing ass that much??

But yes, I'm very happy to build the links for you. No need to ask me in the third person in a post directed at Matt, all you have to do is give me the address and confirm you own the site.

Haha, Neil. I like your style.

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guitarjosh

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

LMAO! I just read your post whilst taking a mouth full of beer and coughed it out through my nose because I laughed so much. Seriously, you're joking right? Please tell me that's a crank post and you're not really kissing ass that much??

But yes, I'm very happy to build the links for you. No need to ask me in the third person in a post directed at Matt, all you have to do is give me the address and confirm you own the site.

I'm not sure how you might even suggest it could be a "crank post". Matt himself states above that he runs "35 servers and 5000 site blog network". You know someone who owns/operates a bigger IM network? If so, please share.

I'm not sure when stating facts became "kissing ass". You'll have to enlighten me. I don't use Matt's services and likely never will so just saying that it is what it is. If there's a big purple elephant in the room.. well.. there' s a big purple elephant.

But I don't really care to get involved in your little experiment. I just know that you're wrong about being able to bury these sites. That was the motivation for my comment.

I'm going to enjoy watching this.

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

Thank you Josh, for clearing up any confusion
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- guitarjosh 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by neil_patmore
  
  Thank you Josh, for clearing up any confusion
  
  No problem. My judgment sometimes get's clouded when drinking beer through my nose too.
  
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  thecableguy 13 years ago
  
  Interesting experiment. And just my 2 cents, but you're never going to be able to sabotage a site with offsite factors. I'll gladly take my foot out of my mouth if there definative proof, as that's what I've said here for years.
  
  An as example back in the late 90's when Mark Joyner's Searchengine Tactics (considered black hat these days) you were able to sabotage a competitor by spamming the URL to the directories until you got them banned. The searchengines quickly caught on to those types of off site tactics and made them useless.
  
  There's been blog post's (I've never tried it though so whether it's true or not remains to be seen) that tactics link bombing a competitors site with ten's of thousands of spammy type links worked while Google did it's dance, but the sites actually came back stronger after awhile.
  
  JMO but I don't think you'll get penalized for them, but instead if anything you just won't get credit for them. If not the searchengines would be like the wild wild west.
  
  Like I said interesting experiment, I'll be tracking it with MS. (that domain sounds awfully familiar)
  
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  neil_patmore 13 years ago
  
  OK, I need to make a point here after having a conversation with a fellow Warrior. It's important to understand how the (my) 'perceived' Google penalties work.
  
  I strongly believe that the penalties affect a site paired with a key phrase.
  
  We optimise for keywords right? We make a site, actually we make a PAGE rank for a given keyword (or keywords).
  
  So, just as Google increases our site (sorry, page) for the keyword we are optimising for, it also penalises us for the keyword we are optimising for.
  
  The penalties affect the keyword/page pairing. For example, if I build a site around widgets and I have 5 pages each targeting a widget, let's say the home page is optimised for 'blue widgets' the next page is optimised for 'red widgets' etc, you get the picture.
  
  Well, when these penalties hit, they penalize the pages in the serps for whatever keywords you are optimizing for.
  
  My two sites that were hit still appear when I search using a random piece of text copied and pasted from the pages' body text.
  
  This is important. The site hasn't tanked completely, but it has tanked for the optimised key phrases.
  I think you'll agree the site is still rendered completely useless!
  
  Just thought I'd clear this up. This is why the site we are hopefully going to use as an example MUST be ranking highly for a given key phrase.
  
  Thank you!
  
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by guitarjosh

I'm not sure how you might even suggest it could be a "crank post". Matt himself states above that he runs "35 servers and 5000 site blog network". You know someone who owns/operates a bigger IM network? If so, please share.

ROFL my time to laugh and make drink come up through my nose

. its an IM board dude people say things to make themselves look bigger than they are. Matt does not "run 35 servers" in order to host 5,000 blogs. If he did he would be an idiot since you can easily put that on 10 or less. Matt utilizes SEO hosting just like all the rest of us that have our own network (with some servers for busy sites) and they are not 35 dedicated servers because it would be silly to place a 140 different blogs on each and then get another server.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

ROFL my time to laugh and make drink come up through my nose

. its an IM board dude people say things to make themselves look bigger than they are. Matt does not "run 35 servers" in order to host 5,000 blogs. If he did he would be an idiot since you can easily put that on 10 or less. Matt utilizes SEO hosting just like all the rest of us that have our own network (with some servers for busy sites) and they are not 35 dedicated servers.

High Five Brother!

But I actually really do have 2 dedi servers, does that make me a bigger kid? Just asking :-)

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

High Five Brother!

But I actually really do have 2 dedi servers, does that make me a bigger kid? Just asking :-)

Who ever said I used 35 servers to host our blog network? We use the servers to broadcast out links to our network. It really is silly me having to come in and explain these sort of things.
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guitarjosh

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

ROFL my time to laugh and make drink come up through my nose

. its an IM board dude people say things to make themselves look bigger than they are. Matt does not "run 35 servers" in order to host 5,000 blogs. If he did he would be an idiot since you can easily put that on 10 or less. Matt utilizes SEO hosting just like all the rest of us that have our own network (with some servers for busy sites) and they are not 35 dedicated servers because it would be silly to place a 140 different blogs on each and then get another server.

I don't know what was worse.. needing Matt to clarify this or getting high fived for it.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by guitarjosh

I don't know what was worse.. needing Matt to clarify this or getting high fived for it.

thats easy it was you suggesting that it was the size of his network buying it hook , line and sinker
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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

High Five Brother!

But I actually really do have 2 dedi servers, does that make me a bigger kid? Just asking :-)

Originally Posted by guitarjosh

I don't know what was worse.. needing Matt to clarify this or getting high fived for it.

Yeah I don't understand it either. As soon as I explained it I was attacked for explaining it. Not sure the playing field is all that level. But I'm continuing with the experiment because I think a lot of Warriors will benefit from it.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

OK lets try this. If you want in on the experiment post your link and keywords here on the thread. I received far too many pms from folks wanting in. Reading and responding to pms is not my strong point so lets do our communicating here on the thread.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

OK lets try this. If you want in on the experiment post your link and keywords here on the thread. I received far too many pms from folks wanting in. Reading and responding to pms is not my strong point so lets do our communicating here on the thread.

You might want to make a list showing which ones you accepted so everyone can have a running count of how many more you need.

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Spartacus

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

OK lets try this. If you want in on the experiment post your link and keywords here on the thread. I received far too many pms from folks wanting in. Reading and responding to pms is not my strong point so lets do our communicating here on the thread.

Ok, here you go

Not ranked yet, about 6 months old

temp removed

keywords:
temp removed

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ulcseminary

13 years ago

I have a site that has been up for a few months. It's an article directory and I was getting crappy articles, so I imported a bunch from some of my blogs that were free-hosted and not really getting indexed.

I imported around 2000 posts. Good posts, mind you. Original content, except that I took them from my own blogs, of course.

Each posting has a bunch of backlinks to it. I set up wp with a cool plugin that rotates the posts from the oldest and moves them to the top. Now they are getting indexed and within a month or less, I increased my total links from that site to about 14k. So far, it hasn't been a problem. And my article directory now has a PR2.

I don't know if that's the same sort of thing, but it seems to be helping.

As a by the by, the post-shift plugin is really great.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I'm game for that too. Give me the link publicly here and we'll do an experiment with your site as well.

In fact the next 10 Warriors who want in on the same deal can. I'll give you free links and we'll dare anyone to drop it in the serps.

That's a great idea. Matt gets you to #1 for a given key phrase for free and then I'll create the links for the penalty. Perfect.

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ulcseminary

13 years ago

If it's just the site that has to be new, give me till later today or tomorrow and I'll have one you can give a go. I'm moving some stuff to a new domain. The domain is old, but I haven't had a site on it before. My links don't seem to be worth much anyway, so if it got buried, not the end of the world for me. lol

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulcseminary

Does the domain need to be less than six months old? Or just the site?

I'll let the OP define those parameters.

Definately the domain, this I believe to be an extremely important factor. I built the same backlinks to another site which was a 3 month old site but I registered the domain last September. That site is still ranking #1 - #3 for all it's key phrases.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

I'm interested to see how this experiment goes. I'm personally pretty confident a site can be knocked off.

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stevenjacobs

Banned 13 years ago

I disagree with this i have been using scrapebox blasts to get my sites ranked on page 1 since scrapebox came out. It is important to make them look natraul, because in the end this is what search engines want. Sites do get influxes of links these sites do not drop in rank. For example all the new electronic releases can have over 100k backlinks one day. Here is my little spill.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I disagree with this i have been using scrapebox blasts to get my sites ranked on page 1 since scrapebox came out. It is important to make them look natraul, because in the end this is what search engines want. Sites do get influxes of links these sites do not drop in rank. For example all the new electronic releases can have over 100k backlinks one day. Here is my little spill.

Hello Steven,

Forgive me but I'm not sure what part of the the thread you are disagreeing with.

However it's worth mentioning again, that these links are not scrapebox, scrapeboard, Xrumer or any other links generated with 'blast' type software.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

So did you guys settle on a domain yet, OP, are you going with the link that Matt posted?

I'm waiting for both sides to hammer the out of it with good links & crappy links at the same time, should be interesting.

Still waiting for ownership confirmation and #1 rankings.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Still waiting for ownership confirmation and #1 rankings.

Thought you might find this link interesting -

My Site was Manually Flagged By Spam Team

The problem with your test is twofold - there are clearly a variety of factors involved as evidenced by the fact that not everyone has the same result. So even a negative finding will not prove that it cannot happen and a positive result (causing a site to respond downward) isn't going to mean it is possible for all sites.

second its really unnecessary to have to wait around for someone to rank a site. It only serves one purpose - to advertise a service (the usual I might ad :rolleyes

. If there are so many people swearing its impossible to be negatively affected why don't we cut through the nonsense of waiting for a site to rank and use an existing site that is already there at thetop of Google.

Is this board so sad that we can't find anyone who swears its impossible to hurt a site with backlinking who - you know - ranks for something?

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

I'm with you on that (red text below).

I don't think the age or authority of the web page that is already ranking should be a factor.

Pick a wikipedia page that is #1 in the SERPs & knock it off of the first page. Heck you can even edit the wiki page, lol.

If you can remove the wiki page from page #1 position #1 in the SERPs, I'll believe it's possible to dethrone a ranked page.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Thought you might find this link interesting -

My Site was Manually Flagged By Spam Team

The problem with your test is twofold - there are clearly a variety of factors involved as evidenced by the fact that not everyone has the same result. So even a negative finding will not prove that it cannot happen and a positive result (causing a site to respond downward) isn't going to mean it is possible for all sites.

second its really unnecessary to have to wait around for someone to rank a site. It only serves one purpose - to advertise a service (the usual I might ad :rolleyes

. If there are so many people swearing its impossible to be negatively affected why don't we cut through the nonsense of waiting for a site to rank and use an existing site that is already there at thetop of Google.

Is this board so sad that we can't find anyone who swears its impossible to hurt a site with backlinking who - you know - ranks for something?

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

As usual Mike Anthony comes with complete jibberish. It's the reason I put him on ignore.

You can't handle how I deconstruct your utter nonsense. in almost every thread you are in you do two things. Hijack the thread to make it about your service and make up numbers that later contradict themselves. No one cares how many servers you use to blast your spun content gibberish and waste dollars. The point being made by the poster was the size of your network as compared to others many of who do not slush around pure gibberish spun content.. You do not operate a network with 35 servers as he was representing. case closed
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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

So did you guys settle on a domain yet, OP, are you going with the link that Matt posted?

I'm waiting for both sides to hammer the $hit out of it with good links & crappy links at the same time, should be interesting.

Thanks
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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

So did you guys settle on a domain yet, OP, are you going with the link that Matt posted?

I'm waiting for both sides to hammer the out of it with good links & crappy links at the same time, should be interesting.

Someone from my staff is optimizing Welcome to Weight Loss Diet Tips right now for ten keywords. We will backlink to all ten keywords in order to get the quickest page one rankings.

Then the experiment will be on like Donkey Kong.

Should I post here or create a new thread? I'll even keep my sig file disabled for the entire length of the experiment.

Want me to also post the keywords and the comp numbers? Anything that I am forgetting?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Someone from my staff is optimizing Welcome to Weight Loss Diet Tips right now for ten keywords. ?

Somebody tell Matt that if he wants this to be a legitimate test he needs to come clean with all the keywords so that everyone can see all the terms and monitor them so that everyone can see what is happening across all the terms.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Somebody tell Matt that if he wants this to be a legitimate test he needs to come clean with all the keywords so that everyone can see all the terms and monitor them so that everyone can see what is happening across all the terms.

I think we'll be making a thread for it where the sites and keywords will be listed and tracked.

I'm kind of excited, tbh. We should try to get electronplumber in on this too. He has some cool ideas and experience with the sandbox.

Originally Posted by yukon

I'm with you on that (red).

I don't think the age or authority of the web page that is already ranking should be a factor.

Pick a wikipedia page that is #1 in the SERPs & knock it off of the first page. Heck you can even edit the wiki page, lol.

If you can remove the wiki page from page #1 position #1 in the SERPs, I'll believe it's possible to dethrone a ranked page.

Of course authority matters. We don't know HOW Google's algorithm determines whether or not to impose a penalty or devalue links for a site. If it's based on some sort of ratio, then using a wikipedia page is probably a bad idea as most already have a ton of inbound links (whether internal or external.)

I'd be down with doing some experiments on authority sites, but would definitely want to do it on new ones as well. The more data we have, the more accurate a conclusion we can draw.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

OK, c'mon guys. Let's not jeopardize the thread, please.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

OK, c'mon guys. Let's not jeopardize the thread, please.

Agreed! We just had a thread closed because of our bickering. It's the little digs that are doing it. One dig spawns another. Is it possible for us to disagree without getting into that?

It's the same in fighting as usual. Spinners versus Uniquees. High PR Blog studs versus low pr blog network owners.

Threads get pinched when we start fighting about those two things.

It would be cool to focus on seo experiments we can run together. I for one am finished without all that other nonsense. Sometimes I get a bit too sensitive on issues. It's something I'm working on.

So who wants in on this experiment?

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Agreed! We just had a thread closed because of our bickering. It's the little digs that are doing it. One dig spawns another. Is it possible for us to disagree without getting into that?

It's the same in fighting as usual. Spinners versus Uniquees. High PR Blog studs versus low pr blog network owners.

Threads get pinched when we start fighting about those two things.

It would be cool to focus on seo experiments we can run together. I for one am finished with out all that other nonsense. Sometimes I get a bit too sensitive on issues. It's something I'm working on.

So who wants in on this experiment?

I'd be willing to put together a site for this experiment.

10 pages, 5000-10000 words of content total. Basic on-page optimization. Fitness / MMA niche (easiest for me to write about.)

Can also do test taking/studying. That might be better, since I'll be releasing a product on that soon anyway.

I'd even be willing to forgo putting outbound links on it for the duration of the experiment so to limit the possibility of any other penalties.

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by JamesGw

I'd even be willing to forgo putting outbound links on it for the duration of the experiment so to limit the possibility of any other penalties.

Good point. Any sites taking part in this experiment should have unique content only on it. They should also be optimized for their keywords. Plus zero outbound links unless it's a link on a blog to your money site.
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PatrickP

13 years ago

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

It would be cool to focus on seo experiments we can run together. I for one am finished with out all that other nonsense. Sometimes I get a bit too sensitive on issues. It's something I'm working on.

I agree. C'mon guys, Matt is willing to get you a #1 position for a given key phrase for nothing, READ NOTHING. Surely, for the good of the community this is a risk worth taking?

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGw

I'd even be willing to forgo putting outbound links on it for the duration of the experiment so to limit the possibility of any other penalties.

Good point. Any sites taking part in this experiment should have unique content only on it. They should also be optimized for their keywords. Plus zero outbound links unless it's a link on a blog to your money site.

I totally agree. Perfect!

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

I totally agree. Perfect!

I'll go one step further. I will be willing to create new sites for the first ten people to jump in on this experiment. Just give us your niche and money site and we'll take care of the rest. So basically we are giving away ten new sites with ten page one rankings.

If someone has a new site they just created that is more than welcome in our experiment as well.

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ilee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I'll go one step further. I will be willing to create new sites for the first ten people to jump in on this experiment. Just give us your niche and money site and we'll take care of the rest. So basically we are giving away ten new sites with ten page one rankings.

If someone has a new site they just created that is more than welcome in our experiment as well.

Wow, how can I pass up such an offer... sign me up, I'll register a domain tonight and build my site by tomorrow. A brand spanking new website untainted by with no inbound or outbound links yet. Can't get a fairer test than that

How much content is needed?

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Good point. Any sites taking part in this experiment should have unique content only on it. They should also be optimized for their keywords. Plus zero outbound links unless it's a link on a blog to your money site.

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I'll go one step further. I will be willing to create new sites for the first ten people to jump in on this experiment. Just give us your niche and money site and we'll take care of the rest. So basically we are giving away ten new sites with ten page one rankings.

If someone has a new site they just created that is more than welcome in our experiment as well.

If Matt is still willing to make the new site, I just bought a new toy domain he can use. I have not even installed the wordpress theme yet.

The first post i quoted is where Matt mentioned no outbound links except to the money site.

So Matt let me know what you want, the binocular site i have part way done, my new domain or I will even buy a domain just for this experiment. I have been reading so much about SEO, Back Linking and competition my eyes hurt. It would be enlightening to have those of you that know what you are doing show which advice is correct.

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Talen 13 years ago

Okay, I'm in if my newest site is deemed acceptable. The site is about a month old and clean...nothing done to it yet except adding a few articles.

Cheap Carpet Tile

keywords:
Carpet Tile
Cheap Carpet Tile
Carpet Tile Adhesive
Carpet Tile Maintenance
Carpet Tile Installation
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Should we put a friendly wager on it? Loser has to sport whatever avatar the winner chooses for them for an entire week.

You game friend?

Mate, I'm not a betting man. Ever since my daughter was born with a condition that is a million to one to get I lost faith with odds. :-)

However I do believe that what I'm saying is the truth.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I'm man enough to admit defeat!

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Changing the images now. Was just informed by my lead html guy that the site was not ready for public viewing yet.

Switching out the place holder images now.

Excellent. whats the main keyword for the home page?

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Mate, I'm not a betting man. Ever since my daughter was born with a condition that is a million to one to get I lost faith with odds. Google me to find out more :-)

However I do believe that what I'm saying is the truth.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I'm man enough to admit defeat!

Sorry to hear about your little girl.. I have 4 of my own and I know how absolutely precious they are to me.

Originally Posted by ichl13

Wow, how can I pass up such an offer... sign me up, I'll register a domain tonight and build my site by tomorrow. A brand spanking new website untainted by with no inbound or outbound links yet. Can't get a fairer test than that

How much content is needed?

At least 600 - 1000 word article would work.

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Excellent. whats the main keyword for the home page?

We'll go with the exact match of the domain as the kw for the index. The other 9 keywords will be interior pages we run campaigns for.

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ilee 13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

At least 600 - 1000 word article would work.

Ok thats fine, so I'll just build the site, add my content do the onpage seo adn give you the URL?
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- neil_patmore 13 years ago
  
  Ok thats fine, so I'll just build the site, add my content do the onpage seo adn give you the URL?
  
  Sounds perfect!
  
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Actually, the more willing to take part the better. I think the global effect from several sites will only help to increase the power of the penalty.

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Actually, the more willing to take part the better. I think the global effect from several sites will only help to increase the power of the penalty.

Should we put a friendly wager on it? Loser has to sport whatever avatar the winner chooses for them for an entire week.

You game friend?
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andynathan

13 years ago

Sorry to come in late, but this sounds like a cool experiment! Will be keeping tabs to see what happens.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Here's the keywords we are targeting:

weight loss
weight loss tips
weight loss programs
weight loss diet
weight loss supplements
rapid weight loss
healthy recipes for weight loss
healthy weight loss
diets for quick weight loss
weight loss diets

Changing the images now. Was just informed by my lead html guy that the site was not ready for public viewing yet.

Switching out the place holder images now.

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Tashi Mortier 13 years ago

It's really interesting to read what is going on here, I will definitely follow your experiment.

We have a lot of inconclusive results from different people here... I think there may be a grain of truth in everything.

I guess what might be happening is a combination of manual intervention of Google, some threshold in their algorithm (some mails go to spam folder, some don't, maybe the same here?), and then of course the different sources of the backlinks. Maybe even something like "known spammer web hosts or ips".

Anyways <gg> It seems pretty obvious to me that something that has been thought up by the best engineers of our time can't be reverse engineered or "beaten" so easily.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Wow, how can I pass up such an offer... sign me up, I'll register a domain tonight and build my site by tomorrow. A brand spanking new website untainted by with no inbound or outbound links yet. Can't get a fairer test than that

How much content is needed?

Get the site ranked #1 for any keyword you choose and we are in business my friend.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

OK for clarity. One keyword one site. It's that simple.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

But while we're backlinking why not go after a wikipedia site that is already ranked really high like Yukon suggested.

I love this kind of stuff. Pity we don't do it more often.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Thank you Matt, kind words :-)

This 'experiment' is sizing up pretty damn interesting. I'm glad I started the thread.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

But while we're backlinking why not go after a wikipedia site that is already ranked really high like Yukon suggested.

I believe this particular penalty affects new domains only. Think tanking out sniper or IPK sites only.

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

I believe this particular penalty affects new domains only. Think tanking out sniper or IPK sites only.

Ok, agreed. You started the thread and we'll test your assertion to the limit. But after this we should set up another experiment.

If we can learn to work together and pool our resources we may be able to accomplish some amazing things.

We could test:

high PR blogs v. low PR
spun content v. syndicated unspun content
which top level domains are better
whether hyphenated urls still work
whether we can make rank a .info

The key is we need to work together and all put our differences aside. Just because we're Warriors doesn't mean we should war with one another.

Right now we look like the jokes of the forum the way we knife fight each other.

So I'll put myself to the test here. If anyone catches me bragging or slamming someone's opinion call me on it and I'll immediately donate $100 to the charity of their choice.

I am very enthusiastic about my business and sometimes it comes off as if I'm bragging. It's something I deal with in the real world too. So I know I do it. I love what I do so much so I assume everyone else does too.

I'll also do away with my sig file completely if that will help me be able to communicate without fear that someone will think I'm trying to hijack a thread.

Sappy enough post?
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ulcseminary

13 years ago

Dang. I want to get in on this! Sadly, I'll just have to watch from the sidelines. lol

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DavidG

13 years ago

Very interesting thread.

I have 2 affiliate sites if you guys would like for them to be worked on.

The Sites are well optimized and have been on for about 3 months.

They have great SEO onpage and also they don't have any backlinks - so they are the cleanest sites for this experiment. Matt can rank them then OP and others can challenge the Penalty Idea. They also have good EMD. With good quality content.

Ylod

Main Keyword - ylod repair

Delaying Ejaculation

Main Keyword - delaying ejaculation

regZ

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Andy Hart

13 years ago

wow this is a rollercoaster of a thread.

The 2 guys started out pretty much eye ball to eye ball with each other and "what do u ya know" its turned into an actual decent SEO experiment.

Respect to the 2 guys for that

My 2 cents.

I know that the Bl@ck hat community do sometimes get a bit naughty and claim to be able to knock sites out of the serps by doing what they call "google bowling" but the problem is there are just to many variables.

In a recent Google video they said they do around 20,000 changes to the search algo in a year, who knows when each one hits and what effect they have had on rankings.

Was it bad links causing your site to dance or a recent change to the algo? There are apparently many small changes we don't hear about as loudly as panda/farmer.

I know one thing, Googles got the whole "secret sauce" down to an art form!

Andy

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Can we assume that domain extension does not matter?

- I'm asking because I'm looking for domains to reg.

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retsek

13 years ago

OP is gonna loose.

The problem with blasting 20,000 links in one day is that usually people do it with only 1-5 keywords. The result? Those keywords disappear for an extended period of time.

Now if you mix it up with 200 related and variated keywords in that same blast. You get completely different results, and my experience shows it's always positive results.

Matt's site with his network backing it, will be able withstand any kind of attempts to derail it. All he has to do is vary his backlinks and keep a balance with what you'll send out. I've used his service and the sheer number of the sites he's got will give him the win.

In the end, there's no right or wrong answer to the original question of this thread. People see it differently.

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guitarjosh

13 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

OP is gonna loose.

The problem with blasting 20,000 links in one day is that usually people do it with only 1-5 keywords. The result? Those keywords disappear for an extended period of time.

Now if you mix it up with 200 related and variated keywords in that same blast. You get completely different results, and my experience shows it's always positive results.

Matt's site with his network backing it, will be able withstand any kind of attempts to derail it. All he has to do is vary his backlinks and keep a balance with what you'll send out. I've used his service and the sheer number of the sites he's got will give him the win.

In the end, there's no right or wrong answer to the original question of this thread. People see it differently.

Soooo.. true. Well said.

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ilee

13 years ago

domain registered, will share tomorrow

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by ichl13

domain registered, will share tomorrow

Post the keywords too if you don't mind. That way we can get started.
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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Disregard my post count, I have been a member of WF for a long time on another old account which I dont remember, and have simply browsed as a guest.

Lol, this thread has been very interested, so interesting, I actually had to take the time to create an account. Only 1 - 2 people have decided to offer their sites for this experiment? That's disappointing. I hereby join this experiment, and this site should be perfect for this.

A well optimized SEO classic Sniper website, registered this domain a few months ago, so the site/domain are about 5 months old.

Page 1, rank 6. - Shouldnt be much work for Matt to do his thing get it to position 1 for its keyword.

Then Neil can do the blast.

Niche: World Of Warcraft Leveling Guides

Main Keyword: zygor leveling guide

Others Optimized for:

zygor leveling guide review
zygor leveling guide free
wow leveling guide
horde leveling guide
alliance leveling

Everyone is free to check it out and do your due diligence.
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caskofdregs

13 years ago

Great thread so far! I love where this is going.

I have a site I'm willing to share. It's a site I decided wouldn't be very profitable and I had a huge lack of interest in the niche, so I sort of gave up on it.

The site is

Softball Bat Reviews

and obviously I wanted to rank it for "softball bat reviews".. one of the posts is on page 4 for the term, which is weird. The rest of the site is nowhere to be seen.

The site is less than a month old, with 5 600-1000 word articles.

Do what you want with it.. this experiment is extremely interesting and I'd love to play a part

Matt, if you want to work on my site's on-page SEO before backlinking, let me know and I'll PM you the login details.

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Amys101place

13 years ago

Hey Matt, if you're still offering others to join, let me know. I'd love to be a part. Sounds like a very fun experiment!

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Droopy Dawg

13 years ago

I haven't read the entire thread here... but I did some digging and found a 3 year old article... which the information may be a little dated.. but still..

Google’s Matt Cutts has responded to a Google Groups discussion on the Google -60 penalty, which sometimes can set a site back in Google 60 placements due to bad linking, saying that such questionable tactics like paid links in various templates can indeed negatively influence a site’s rankings, especially when those links are identified and Google takes away that juice, which could be seen as a penalty.

The article goes on to say..

If you’ve been hit with such a penalty (or have had your value taken away from such links), look at the linking you’ve done which is irrelevant, spam related or obviously counter productive to building the authority of your website, delete these links, then redeem yourself to Google with a reconsideration request.

So take from it what you will... because you've never been penalized doesn't mean the "penalty" doesn't exists... it means you're either doing ethical and effective backlinking, and getting rewarded with high rankings for your efforts. Or you haven't been ding'd yet for those low-quality links.

Me personally I've never gotten any of my sites drooped for link blasts... and I've blasted my fair share of sites with ScrapeBox and paid for some xRumer blasts.. but I've been lucky

However I won't discredit someone for saying that it has happened to them.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Droopy Dawg

However I won't discredit someone for saying that it has happened to them.

Thats the thing. this thing has been tested before. Some people nothing happens and some there is an effect. As with many things SEO there are all kinds of variables to every site. We already know that not every site is affected so getting ten sites ranked by the same service is actually the wrong way of doing it. if you want to do a good solid more scientific test then you would us a wide range of setups and links then hit them with links.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

We already know that not every site is affected so getting ten sites ranked by the same service is actually the wrong way of doing it. if you want to do a good solid more scientific test then you would us a wide range of setups and links then hit them with links.

Good point Mike.

However I'm more inclined to believe that other external factors play a much more important role than existing backlinks. For example, number of competing sites, strength of competing sites, search volume of key phrase, wether or not the key phrase is a spam key phrase (Forex, **** berry, Weight Loss etc).

One of my sites was in the weight loss niche, more specifically a very competitive weight loss supplement niche. The other was in a beauty product niche.

I think it will take more work to influence a penalty for 'red carpet for sale in surrey england' than it will for '**** Berry'.

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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Matt, let me the first to thank you for doing this experiment, thank you too Neil. I am actually glad many people don't see this section as I would have missed out, so selfish me has taken the time to seize this opportunity.

Here is another one in case the one I posted before does not satisfy you.

This one will be 1 month old on Sept 13th/2011, so currently less than 1 month old. No backlinks. I can remove outgoing links if you guys want.

Niche: Penis Implant Surgery (odd niche, i know )

Domain name: penileimplantsurgery.info

Main Keyword: penile implant surgery

Other Keywords:

penile implant surgery
penile enlargement surgery
penile implant surgery cost
penile prosthesis surgery
penile pump surgery
penile pump implant
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- neil_patmore 13 years ago
  
  Niche: Penis Implant Surgery (odd niche, i know )
  
  DAMN! Does that really have search volume! LOL.
  
  I'd suggest removing the adsense though. Once the penalty hits it's likely it may affect other sites using the same adsense account.
  
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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Had a few too many Sapphire and Tonics tonight at the Stillwater Grill in Okemos. I'll catch everyone in the morning and we can get the test rolling. Time for the big dog to lay down for a bit. We're still short of the ten sites though. Come on Warriors help us out here.

You know if I were to make that offer in the wso section or in the main floor of the forum I would already have 100 folks trying to jump on the offer.

I never knew how much fewer the eyeballs were in this section. Maybe we've been too abrasive for decent folk to visit us. We're like the rowdy bunch of the Warrior Forum. The copywriters I think come in a close second though. They're not exactly a tame lot themselves.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Had a few too many Sapphire and Tonics tonight at the Stillwater Grill in Okemos. I'll catch everyone in the morning and we can get the test rolling. Time for the big dog to lay down for a bit. We're still short of the ten sites though. Come on Warriors help us out here.

You know if I were to make that offer in the wso section or in the main floor of the forum I would already have 100 folks trying to jump on the offer.

I never knew how much fewer the eyeballs were in this section. Maybe we've been too abrasive for decent folk to visit us. We're like the rowdy bunch of the Warrior Forum. The copywriters I think come in a close second though. They're not exactly a tame lot themselves.

I will offer up my new site i am working on. I have not got it approved by Amazon yet so have no outgoing links and no backlinks on it.

and whatever other keywords you want to add. I will even go so far as giving matt an administrative login on the account to prove it is mine since he will be the one building it up. I will let you guys decide if any links go to amazon during the experiment.

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DavidG

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Had a few too many Sapphire and Tonics tonight at the Stillwater Grill in Okemos. I'll catch everyone in the morning and we can get the test rolling. Time for the big dog to lay down for a bit. We're still short of the ten sites though. Come on Warriors help us out here.

You know if I were to make that offer in the wso section or in the main floor of the forum I would already have 100 folks trying to jump on the offer.

I never knew how much fewer the eyeballs were in this section. Maybe we've been too abrasive for decent folk to visit us. We're like the rowdy bunch of the Warrior Forum. The copywriters I think come in a close second though. They're not exactly a tame lot themselves.

You should post up how many sites are left - I don't know if you saw my post - -

Originally Posted by regZ

Very interesting thread.

I have 2 affiliate sites if you guys would like for them to be worked on.

The Sites are well optimized and have been on for about 3 months.

They have great SEO onpage and also they don't have any backlinks - so they are the cleanest sites for this experiment. Matt can rank them then OP and others can challenge the Penalty Idea. They also have good EMD. With good quality content.

Ylod

Main Keyword - ylod repair

Delaying Ejaculation

Main Keyword - delaying ejaculation

regZ

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Had a few too many Sapphire and Tonics tonight at the Stillwater Grill in Okemos. I'll catch everyone in the morning and we can get the test rolling. Time for the big dog to lay down for a bit. We're still short of the ten sites though. Come on Warriors help us out here.

You know if I were to make that offer in the wso section or in the main floor of the forum I would already have 100 folks trying to jump on the offer.

I never knew how much fewer the eyeballs were in this section. Maybe we've been too abrasive for decent folk to visit us. We're like the rowdy bunch of the Warrior Forum. The copywriters I think come in a close second though. They're not exactly a tame lot themselves.

"We're still short of the ten sites though. Come on Warriors help us out here."

Right before Matt went to bed he says they are short of the ten sites. I have other sites that are less than are less than 2 months old but they all already have links being built to them.

I could quickly make a few more though if no one else is going to jump in.

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Spartacus

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Had a few too many Sapphire and Tonics tonight at the Stillwater Grill in Okemos. I'll catch everyone in the morning and we can get the test rolling. Time for the big dog to lay down for a bit. We're still short of the ten sites though. Come on Warriors help us out here.

You know if I were to make that offer in the wso section or in the main floor of the forum I would already have 100 folks trying to jump on the offer.

I never knew how much fewer the eyeballs were in this section. Maybe we've been too abrasive for decent folk to visit us. We're like the rowdy bunch of the Warrior Forum. The copywriters I think come in a close second though. They're not exactly a tame lot themselves.

I have a site you can test this on, I'll PM you the info. Information can be made public, no problem. I'll post it here once it's accepted

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Wow, quite a few posts to catch up on this morning.

Now, this may be me being paranoid and I'm open to suggestions but is it a good idea to openly state the domain and keyword on this thread? What if we assume that Big G checks in here now and again (which the web spam team no doubt do), does openly stating the said information possibly jeopardize the exercise?
I can create a basic registration form that we can use if everybody feels it might add value to the project?

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

do you think google reads the threads ?? I can put them in an image and post it that way instead now that i have 15 posts. It is up to you guys but for the experiment to be of help to every one they need to be able to see the site and keywords being targeted. Google seeing it will make matt's job harder.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

OP is gonna loose.

Thank you for your support :-)

For clarity I'm going to say this again: The links I'm going to create are not any sort of blasts. Any arguments to support claims why blasts won't work are irrelevant.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

do you think google reads the threads ??

I think we would be naive to think they don't?

Either way, I'm guided by everyone else on this.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Quote:
So did you guys settle on a domain yet, OP, are you going with the link that Matt posted?

I'm waiting for both sides to hammer the out of it with good links & crappy links at the same time, should be interesting.

Still waiting for ownership confirmation and #1 rankings.

OK, just got ownership confirmation through for Matt's domain. His is definately in.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

matt mentioned testing 10 sites and i only saw 3 or 4 offered when i went through the thread

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I have other sites that are less than are less than 2 months old but they all already have links being built to them.

Check with Matt but I'm not sure that really matters? The aim is to get the sites ranking #1 for a given keyword before I build the 'bad' links.

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Latsyrc

13 years ago

Edited-
I think I'm in. I think I want to use a new site of mine that I have. I'll be back later and post if I decide to do this.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

I just did a quick scan though the thread and came up with 10 Ids that offered to participate. Is this good enough to start?

Spartacus
TheFBGuy
wolfmanjack
regZ
Amys101place
copyassassin
caskofdregs
ichl13
ulcseminary
JamesGw

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I just did a quick scan though the thread and came up with 10 Ids that offered to participate. Is this good enough to start?

Spartacus
TheFBGuy
wolfmanjack
regZ
Amys101place
copyassassin
caskofdregs
ichl13
ulcseminary
JamesGw

Sounds good to me! :-)

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archel

13 years ago

Let's see how this works out. Never experienced the sandbox myself...

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packerfan 13 years ago

I've got a site that's perfect for this. It's basically a month old, I'm almost positive I haven't built any links (very few at the most).

Here's the site... Web Developer Toolbar | How to make a website using a web developer toolbar

Keyword is web developer toolbar

Onpage is done, but if I need to change something I can. And yeah, the content is original. Not good, but it is original...
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guitarjosh

13 years ago

I doubt the Big G spends much time sifting through threads here but if they get wind of this, don't be surprised if every domain listed here gets deindexed at the same time.

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Spartacus

13 years ago

Originally Posted by guitarjosh

I doubt the Big G spends much time sifting through threads here but if they get wind of this, don't be surprised if every domain listed here gets deindexed at the same time.

Nah, this won't happen, they probably have better things to do. Plus no one is doing anything wrong...

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by guitarjosh

I doubt the Big G spends much time sifting through threads here but if they get wind of this, don't be surprised if every domain listed here gets deindexed at the same time.

I suspect some of my more jealous competitors will do their best to report the sites. Which is why I will not be using sites from our main blog network for this experiment. I'm not about to jeopardize my network just to prove a point I already know is false.

So we're going to use 200 brand new sites that we have hosted with a different vendor than what we are using for our main network.

I'm also toying with the idea of running a separate experiment at the same time we're doing this one.

I want to test to see whether or not spun plr articles can produce as much juice as an unique article that is submitted unspun to directories as syndicated content.

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Spartacus

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I'm also toying with the idea of running a separate experiment at the same time we're doing this one.

I want to test to see whether or not spun plr articles can produce as much juice as an unique article that is submitted unspun to directories as syndicated content.

Nice, still interested to see the results of this.

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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Neil: Lol, indeed. Over 2000 exact searches a month, not that much, but then again it's a true micro site, plus the Adsense CPC is high.

Yes I concur, Adsense removed.

Spartacus: Cool, thank you for taking the time.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I doubt the Big G spends much time sifting through threads here but if they get wind of this, don't be surprised if every domain listed here gets deindexed at the same time.

That will make my job easier :-)

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wolfmanjack 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

That will make my job easier :-)

Good point so if all of them get de-indexed at the same time we know not to do any more public experiments.
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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Heading off to finish some furniture shopping for our new place. When we get back I'll create a list of the sites in the experiment. Then we'll do our seo thing.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

So I guess I could turn this into a class on how to run effective seo campaigns that can withstand manual reviews from G.

I think it's time we take this experiment to the War Room folks. I'll start the thread and show Camtasia videos of each step I take in the backlinking process. I'll also show how to set up a blog network as well. Everything from A to Z.

That portion of the experiment will be available on in the War Room provided it is allowed. Then we'll give op every chance to knock them off with his links.

Should be pretty informative all the way around.

Also if one of the Warriors can help me out by posting a list of the participating sites and their keywords it would be very much appreciated. Then I'll go create the thread in the War Room and will post the info in there. Then we'll start the experiment/tutorial.

Off to go pick a new desk out. Be back shortly.

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Spartacus 13 years ago

A list with people that shared information:

Username: TheFBGuy
Domain name: penileimplantsurgery.info
Main Keyword: penile implant surgery

Keywords:
penile implant surgery
penile enlargement surgery
penile implant surgery cost
penile prosthesis surgery
penile pump surgery
penile pump implant

+

Domainname: zygorlevelingguide.org
Main Keyword: zygor leveling guide

Keywords:
zygor leveling guide review
zygor leveling guide free
wow leveling guide
horde leveling guide
alliance leveling

__________________________________________________

Username: Spartacus
Domain name: temp removed
Main keyword: temp removed

Keywords:
temp removed

__________________________________________________

Username: wolfmanjack
Domain name: buybinocularsreviews.com
Main keyword: Best Binoculars Reviews

Keywords:
binoculars
buy binoculars
binoculars reviews
best binoculars

__________________________________________________

Username: regZ
Domain name: ylodrepair.net
Main Keyword: ylod repair

+

Domain name: delayingejaculations.com
Main keyword: delaying ejaculation

__________________________________________________

Username: copyassasin
Domain name: tax-audit-specialists.com

Keywords:
tax audit
irs audit
tax relief
wage garnishment
tax levy
tax resolution
tax problems
taxpayer advocate
what is audit
tax lawyer

__________________________________________________

Username: caskofdregs
Domain name: softballbatreviews.info
Main keyword: softball bat reviews

__________________________________________________

Username: Talen
Domain name: cheapcarpettile.info

Keywords:
Carpet Tile
Cheap Carpet Tile
Carpet Tile Adhesive
Carpet Tile Maintenance
Carpet Tile Installation

__________________________________________________

Username: Packerfan
Domain name: webdevelopertoolbar.net

Keywords:
web developer toolbar

More?
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ilee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

So I guess I could turn this into a class on how to run effective seo campaigns that can withstand manual reviews from G.

I think it's time we take this experiment to the War Room folks. I'll start the thread and show Camtasia videos of each step I take in the backlinking process. I'll also show how to set up a blog network as well. Everything from A to Z.

That portion of the experiment will be available on in the War Room provided it is allowed. Then we'll give op every chance to knock them off with his links.

Should be pretty informative all the way around.

Also if one of the Warriors can help me out by posting a list of the participating sites and their keywords it would be very much appreciated. Then I'll go create the thread in the War Room and will post the info in there. Then we'll start the experiment/tutorial.

Off to go pick a new desk out. Be back shortly.

So do we need to be war room members to take part?

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guitarjosh

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

So I guess I could turn this into a class on how to run effective seo campaigns that can withstand manual reviews from G.

I think it's time we take this experiment to the War Room folks. I'll start the thread and show Camtasia videos of each step I take in the backlinking process. I'll also show how to set up a blog network as well. Everything from A to Z.

That portion of the experiment will be available on in the War Room provided it is allowed. Then we'll give op every chance to knock them off with his links.

Should be pretty informative all the way around.

Also if one of the Warriors can help me out by posting a list of the participating sites and their keywords it would be very much appreciated. Then I'll go create the thread in the War Room and will post the info in there. Then we'll start the experiment/tutorial.

Off to go pick a new desk out. Be back shortly.

Well that sucks. Not too likely that even the majority of us are war room members.

Thanks
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Spartacus 13 years ago

I'd become a member myself though, mainly because I'm very interested in the results of the experiments, interested enough to become a member. But I understand you guys though.
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I think it's time we take this experiment to the War Room folks.

Nope. thats not the way its done around here pardner. I realize your relatively new to this section but we do SEO experiments in front of those who know SEO in THIS section. Theres only one reason to move to the War room and it has nothing to do with the experiment -It has to do with future sales and we ain't having yet another thread hijacked for the purpose of selling one service.

I am all for selling too but here when we do experiments we do it for for everyone to see in the fine tradition of ElectronPlumber, and Before him Terry and clickbump etc.

Signatures, WSOs even mentioning your service etc are fine but don't go trying to hijack the whole thread and test now. Op started this thread in the open in THIS section and thats where it and the test should stay.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Nope. thats not the way its done around here pardner. I realize your relatively new to this section but we do SEO experiments in front of those who know SEO in THIS section. Theres only one reason to move to the War room and it has nothing to do with the experiment -It has to do with future sales and we ain't having yet another thread hijacked for the purpose of selling one service.

I am all for selling too but here when we do experiments we do it for for everyone to see in the fine tradition of ElectronPlumber, and Before him Terry and clickbump etc.

Signatures, WSOs even mentioning your service etc are fine but don't go trying to hijack the whole thread and test now. Op started this thread in the open in THIS section and thats where it and the test should stay.

Agree with this.

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

Op started this thread in the open in THIS section and thats where it and the test should stay.

I gotta agree too. I just don't see how moving to the War Room is going to add any value?
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- mattlaclear 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  Count me out If the test won't be public.
  
  The experiment is still public. What I'm going to do in the War Room is show how I grabbed the rankings to begin with.
  
  Originally Posted by ichl13
  
  So do we need to be war room members to take part?
  
  If you want to see how I grabbed the rankings you'll need to.
  
  Originally Posted by guitarjosh
  
  Well that sucks. Not too likely that even the majority of us are war room members.
  
  You can still take part in the experiment. You just won't know how we grabbed the rankings.
  
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  yukon Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mattlaclear
  
  The experiment is still public. What I'm going to do in the War Room is show how I grabbed the rankings to begin with.
  
  Ok, that's cool.
  
  As far as the page that ranks #1, the backlinks that actually helped rank the page isn't important to me.
  
  I just want to see the actual test (#1 page removed from the SERPs).
  
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PatrickP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Nope. thats not the way its done around here pardner. I realize your relatively new to this section but we do SEO experiments in front of those who know SEO in THIS section. Theres only one reason to move to the War room and it has nothing to do with the experiment -It has to do with future sales and we ain't having yet another thread hijacked for the purpose of selling one service.

I am all for selling too but here when we do experiments we do it for for everyone to see in the fine tradition of ElectronPlumber, and Before him Terry and clickbump etc.

Signatures, WSOs even mentioning your service etc are fine but don't go trying to hijack the whole thread and test now. Op started this thread in the open in THIS section and thats where it and the test should stay.

You have to admit laclear, love him or hate him he knows how to turn just about every post he makes into an marketing opportunity.

Anthony Morrison used to do the same thing when he used to post on the forums and look were it got him.

This is like Shark tank when the business owner walks out of the room and the sharks cut their offer and up the percentage.

The OP left the thread for a few hours and it is now a completely new deal lol

It has been handed over and it WILL be in the War room. The old golden rule. The one with the gold makes the rules.

Or the one who makes the rules gets all the gold.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by PatrickP

You have to admit laclear, love him or hate him he knows how to turn just about every post he makes into an marketing opportunity................The OP left the thread for a few hours and it is now a completely new deal lol

Pssssh

This is the captain. At this time we ask that you remain seated in the upright position. Remain calm. We will be making an unscheduled diversion to the nearest sales er airport. The Sky marshall has informed us that we are in the midst of a thread hijack . It is however under control.

Pssssh

Now when did this thread ever have anything to do with how Laclear ranks sites?? this is about knocking sites down. COMPLETELY opposite. Anyone not being a war room member you will miss nothing, nada, zip. there have been two discussions here about building a network in which you can learn how laclear gets pages on the front page for weak serps. Search for them and you are golden. Lets keep this thread about what it is and right here.

"Influencing Other Sites’ Rankings With Backlinks" not the 450th thread on how the same service gets weak terms to the front page.

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paulgl

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Pssssh

Now when did this thread ever have anything to do with how Laclear ranks sites?? this is about knocking sites down. COMPLETELY opposite.

Not completely opposite.

When opportunity knocks....

Paul

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Not completely opposite.

When opportunity knocks....

Paul

It's not about our ability to rank sites at all. That's why I'm going to share that portion of info in the War Room away from this thread. That's also why I'm inviting him to do the same for ten more Warriors.
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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Not completely opposite.

When opportunity knocks....

Paul

LOl. That opportunity didn't knock. It was standing up minding its own business and two guys with Chloroform grabbed him, shook him down for spare change and dragged him down the alley and through the door.

Opportunity was gang tackled I tell you.
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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

Not completely opposite.

When opportunity knocks....

Paul

I am confused on how Matt doing his videos in the war room would make him more sales for his service? I would think having anything he does in the open forum would generate him more views and more sales opportunities. Or are you saying he gets money from people joining the War room?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfmanjack

? I would think having anything he does in the open forum would generate him more views and more sales opportunities.

That might have to do with the fact that you are not a war room member and haven't seen the extremely high views per thread and the equally high response rates. Many a successful War room thread leads to uber sales. Plus Everyone in there is prequalified buyers since they have spent the money to become a War room member.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

That might have to do with the fact that you are not a war room member and haven't seen the extremely high views per thread and the equally high response rates. Many a successful War room thread leads to uber sales. Plus Everyone in there is prequalified buyers since they have spent the money to become a War room member.

I am not a war room member and that is why I asked the question. Thank you for answering it.

Don't most of the war room members visit the rest of the site also?

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Count me out If the test won't be public.

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DavidG

13 years ago

Well - we have 10 site for you now matt - Spartacus nicely posted it on the top of this page.

Now - if you skim through the thread there are only a few war room members. I don't think that is a good idea as many have good inputs about SEO that aren't - or don't wish to spend money for the War Room.

If anything a new thread dedicated for this experiment will work best - as many could follow along, instead of those who are already War Room members - it's only fair.

regZ

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AlphaOmegaMarketing

13 years ago

Well I have experienced dropping due to backlinks also.

In my case one of my site got over 1500 backlinks from russian pornsites and sex shop and othe spammy crap all from russia.

The backlinks all came in in 2 days according to majesticseo.

This site is a 2 year old site with PR 3 and lot of content. It had around 2000-3000 uniques per day and ranked 1 for a few keyowrds and has over 300 ranked keywords in google. One week after the links appeared my site dropped in ranking so bad that i went down to like 200-300 visitors per day which all came from referring sites. So no organic traffic anymore.

The site stayed there for about 3 weeks and then started to comeback slowly. after 1 month i was getting 1000 organic uniques again and most of my keywords came back to their old places. 3 months later it came back more and i had 1500 visitors a day (still the half of what i got before) this all happend like 7 months ago and the site is now back to its normal 2000-3000.

Altough the site came back to normal i lost like 60.k to 100k visitors in that period which is pretty ****.

This must have been an impact of the ****ty backlinks as i did no changes to the site but updating content and the keywords it ranks for are almost cemented since 1 and a half year. and never moved away from 1.

Still I think for established sites there are no longterm negative effects from backlinks at all, but like in my case loosing a 100k visitors is not ideal as you can imagine.

I could imagine that the same **** happening to a newer site would have much worse effects.

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avatar9812

13 years ago

There was a case study couple of months back on BHW, basically tries to blast a site with 100k - 200k backlinks. The site was on position #3 before the blast, disappeared for two weeks and came back as #1.

Of course, the site is aged.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Also if any other person would like to take on ten additional Warrior campaigns as well we can broaden the size of the experiment.

That way we can help more Warriors get more page one rankings.

So any takers?

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Spartacus

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Also if any other person would like to take on ten additional Warrior campaigns as well we can broaden the size of the experiment.

That way we can help more Warriors get more page one rankings.

So any takers?

So there will be a total of 20 people and the same campaigns will be run on those sites?

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Spartacus

So there will be a total of 20 people and the same campaigns will be run on those sites?

I'll take the first ten. Another provider can take the next ten. That way more Warriors can benefit from the experiment.

Then OP can try to knock them off any way he can.

As many folks selling links in the wso section it seems like we can get some more takers on this. Unless of course they prefer not to. But I think it would be cool if they did.
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ilee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Also if any other person would like to take on ten additional Warrior campaigns as well we can broaden the size of the experiment.

That way we can help more Warriors get more page one rankings.

So any takers?

Right, I've put my first article on the website
Is there still space for me Matt? or are all spaces taken?

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Brendan Mace

13 years ago

Here's my share... I would love to be involved in this experiment.

username co2

domain = http://www.bestcappuccinomachine.info/

keywords
best cappuccino machine
cappuccino machine reviews
cappuccino maker

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by co2

Here's my share... I would love to be involved in this experiment.

username co2

domain = Best Cappuccino Machine

keywords
best cappuccino machine
cappuccino machine reviews
cappuccino maker

Hold on there partner. No one else has stepped up to take on the ten additional campaigns yet.

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Brendan Mace

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Hold on there partner. No one else has stepped up to take on the ten additional campaigns yet.

Fair enough. If anyone wants to accept the challenge, I am more than willing to be apart of this experiment.

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copyassassin

13 years ago

First off, three cheers for Matt for 1) having the guts to put is name on the line, 2) for offering to help warriors like me, 3) willing to share his model.

Quick question:

I've set up the wordpress site, and am wondering which SEO plugins you would recommend us installing?

thx

adam

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Spartacus

13 years ago

Originally Posted by copyassassin

First off, three cheers for Matt for 1) having the guts to put is name on the line, 2) for offering to help warriors like me, 3) willing to share his model.

Quick question:

I've set up the wordpress site, and am wondering which SEO plugins you would recommend us installing?

thx

adam

I'd say All-in-one seo pack...at least.

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Fernando Veloso

13 years ago

Loving the thread so far. Hope you guys keep on going with the "challenge".

But...

IMO the whole G algo it's random, it's based on % and it's made this way to keep people wondering around what happened to them and why NOT to others doing same thing.

It's random. And changes often.

Even if you make 100K tests, you'll always get random results - otherwise Google would lose the game to folks with the ability to perform REALLY heavy tests... uncovering the pattern to rank sites.

Just my 2 and a half cents.

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Spartacus

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Loving the thread so far. Hope you guys keep on going with the "challenge".

But...

IMO the whole G algo it's random, it's based on % and it's made this way to keep people wondering around what happened to them and why NOT to others doing same thing.

It's random. And changes often.

Even if you make 100K tests, you'll always get random results - otherwise Google would lose the game to folks with the ability to perform REALLY heavy tests... uncovering the pattern to rank sites.

Just my 2 and a half cents.

Once this test has ran we can hopefully say it's not so random.

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Brendan Mace

13 years ago

Another share...

domain = Best Coffee Machine — Helping you buy better!

main keyword = best coffee machine

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Mike Anthony: The "real experiment" is still public, just not how matt achieved the rankings, which really is not necessary for us to know, unless someone sucks at SEO or need some new ideas and whatnot. I am more interested in the experiment as I am sure everyone who has posted here is.

So matt uses this case study for his future sales... that's fine, no big deal. He is taking the time to conduct this experiment after all.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Mike Anthony: The "real experiment" is still public, just not how matt achieved the rankings, which really is not necessary for us to know, unless someone sucks at SEO or need some new ideas and whatnot. I am more interested in the experiment as I am sure everyone who has posted here is.

exactly and it should therefore be obvious that what I object to is him making this about his service as he has done in EVERY thread he has been in. So if he wants to go over some section and do something unrelated then by all means he can go for it - not call as he did in post 201 that it should be moved somewhere (war room) he can make more sales.

The experiment is not ranking. Its being knocked down from ranking.

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InitialEffort

13 years ago

Step #1 - Find a nice Adsense niche website that has 3-5 pages that is 6 months or less old

Step #2 - Build 20,000 Forum profile links with the same anchor text everyday for 2 weeks.

Step #3 - Wait and you will agree with the OP.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

I still say go after a wikipedia page that ranks #1, that's the real proof.

If you can remove a wiki page that ranks #1, the rest of the new test sites, would be easier to remove.

Just my 2 cents,

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ilee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I still say go after a wikipedia page that ranks #1, that's the real proof.

If you can remove a wiki page that ranks #1, the rest of the new test sites, would be easier to remove.

Just my 2 cents,

I'm no expert, but surely wikipedia is more than 6 months old

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yukon Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by ichl13

I'm no expert, but surely wikipedia is more than 6 months old

Exactly!

Remove their (wiki) page & the 6-month old sites would be nothing as far as trying to remove from the SERPs.
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caskofdregs

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I still say go after a wikipedia page that ranks #1, that's the real proof.

If you can remove a wiki page that ranks #1, the rest of the new test sites, would be easier to remove.

Just my 2 cents,

If I'm not wrong, there is no way you can 'remove' a Wikipedia page. Sure, you can outrank it in the SERPS, but there's no way you can entirely remove a Wiki page. Since this is the 'sandbox' we're talking about here, a Wikipedia page being 'sandboxed' would mean that Wikipedia, as a whole domain, would have to be gone from Google's index - which, as we know, is literally impossible considering Wikipedia's age, authority and millions of backlinks pointing to the domain as a whole.

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ilee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by caskofdregs

If I'm not wrong, there is no way you can 'remove' a Wikipedia page. Sure, you can outrank it in the SERPS, but there's no way you can entirely remove a Wiki page. Since this is the 'sandbox' we're talking about here, a Wikipedia page being 'sandboxed' would mean that Wikipedia, as a whole domain, would have to be gone from Google's index - which, as we know, is literally impossible considering Wikipedia's age, authority and millions of backlinks pointing to the domain as a whole.

Sandboxed is just when your web page SERPs drop a lot and not deindexed right? I think you can get slapped for a particular keyword but not normally every keyword

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MikeFriedman 13 years ago

If you guys want to spend time doing this, I say have at it. However, I don't think this experiment is going to really tell much at all.

I have routinely witnessed pages reach page one only to fall back to page 3 or farther without any kind of backlink blasting. For a newer site, it is a something that occurs pretty frequently. So how do you know it was caused by the link blast when this is something that happens all the time? If you don't believe me, just count the number of "My site fell from page one and I have no idea why" threads that get started every week on WF.

On top of that, it is going to take months for Matt to have all these keywords ranked. By that time, Google might come out with a major new algorithm update, like May Day, Caffeine, or Panda, that makes this whole experiment obsolete and useless.

I think what would really be interesting is if link blasts can remove an established site consistently.

Like I said though, if you guys want to spend the time on this, be my guest.
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- Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MikeFriedman
  
  Like I said though, if you guys want to spend the time on this, be my guest.
  
  You are right there. as presently constructed and what the thread has become I say the same - be my guest. Don't think anything will come of it. Good luck to you all.
  
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I still say go after a wikipedia page that ranks #1, that's the real proof.

If you can remove a wiki page that ranks #1, the rest of the new test sites, would be easier to remove.

Just my 2 cents,

You know what Yukon? the way this thread is going that would be a better test. at least if that wiki page fell off the front page it would have been a page thats stable and not likely to have lost its ranking for anything else. With having to wait to get a site to rank #1 using dubious means anyway how will we ever tell if it loses rank that it was not because the SEO itself wasn't good enough to hold in position for very long?

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JamesGw 13 years ago

I have a 9 month old site I can sacrifice. It's only #8, but I'm sure I can bump it up higher if we want to proceed.

(I'm also pretty confident that I can reverse the penalty if there is one.)
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

incidentally what is this about first page rankings? thats like out of sales copy. What you need for this experiment is top ranking like number ones or it is USELESS. many sites go to first page and then fall dramatically without any interference. Most of us have seen that repeatedly even without much backlinking. So if the page falls from just the front page then we won't have any real proof that its the backlinks that caused it. In order for this to mean anything it has to be a page that ranks high and has ranked for awhile to show its stability. Then and if it drops you can more clearly say that was the cause.

Thats why I said earlier on that the best and most scientific way of doing this research would be to find a site than ranks number one and has for awhile and take it out. With all the Imers that believe it is impossible and backlinks can only help then you would think someone would jump to it.

Instead this thread is being dominated now by people looking to rank number one who haven't or can't on their own and its become more focused on that rather than the real experiment. in short the thread has become one for opportunistic webmasters and service sellers who really don't care at the end of the day whether the results are conclusive and/or scientific and thats what will end up making the whole thread and test useless.

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caskofdregs

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Thats why I said earlier on that the best and most scientific way of doing this research would be to find a site than ranks number one and has for awhile and take it out. With all the Imers that believe it is impossible and backlinks can only help then you would think someone would jump to it.

The whole theory Neil put out here is that a site ranking number one, and is no more than 6 months old can be taken out from the SERPS entirely with a huge amount of backlinks.

So, it would make sense that we find a site ranking number one, and is no more than six months old, and take it down.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by caskofdregs

So, it would make sense that we find a site ranking number one, and is no more than six months old, and take it down.

Sure so the quickest way would be to find such a site within that age not spend the time trying to get sites to number one that probably would not even stay on their own anyway and frankly no on here is going to be able to guarantee top rankings #1 or #2 across the board. lower rankings mean nothing. Pages regularly get to the first page and fall off the first page.
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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

incidentally what is this about first page rankings? thats like out of sales copy. What you need for this experiment is top ranking like number ones or it is USELESS. many sites go to first page and then fall dramatically without any interference. Most of us have seen that repeatedly even without much backlinking. So if the page falls from just the front page then we won't have any real proof that its the backlinks that caused it. In order for this to mean anything it has to be a page that ranks high and has ranked for awhile to show its stability. Then and if it drops you can more clearly say that was the cause.

Thats why I said earlier on that the best and most scientific way of doing this research would be to find a site than ranks number one and has for awhile and take it out. With all the Imers that believe it is impossible and backlinks can only help then you would think someone would jump to it.

Instead this thread is being dominated now by people looking to rank number one who haven't or can't on their own and its become more focused on that rather than the real experiment. in short the thread has become one for opportunistic webmasters and service sellers who really don't care at the end of the day whether the results are conclusive and/or scientific and thats what will end up making the whole thread and test useless.

Hey Mike,

Part 1

yes, I agree regarding number 1 - 3 rankings on page 1, otherwise simply getting to page 1 means nothing. Many of us have achieved page 1 many times, and as an example you can Google the site I offered for this experiment: zygor leveling guide. It has been steady on page 1 for quiet some time now against strong and many competitors, over 400K, so I agree, and I expect Matt to get to at least top 3 because like I said, most of us can get to page 1 with no problem.

Part 2

It was difficult getting people to join this experiment, and people eventually joined because they don't have much to lose since they are offering new sites, thus this is where we find ourselves. I have sites ranking number 1... no way I or anyone offer a stable top ranking site so suddenly for an experiment, especially sites generating revenue. Unfortunately new sites would have to suffice.

Part 3

Well, this is internet marketing after all. The OP benefits, Matt benefits, people who had the courage to offer sites benefit as well and all these sites have UNIQUE content. Nothing wrong with being opportunistic. Again this is internet marketing, at the end of the day we all want a little something in return for time invested in addition to still carrying out the experiment. It's all good.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Part 3

Well, this is internet marketing after all. The OP benefits, Matt benefits, people who had the courage to offer sites benefit as well and all these sites have UNIQUE content. Nothing wrong with that being opportunistic. Again this is internet marketing, at the end of the day we all want a little something in return for time invested in addition to still carrying out the experiment. It's all good.

FB if we all hijacked every thread we were in because of being internet marketers then this Forum would shrivel up and die. As it is it used to be alot better than it is now and going down steadily. Many tests have been done here and the people who did them all profited by giving some times not angling every thread as a sales opportunity and especially in such an obvious manner. You are brand spanking new to this board and can't speak to what has historically made the board good or bad.

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Talen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

incidentally what is this about first page rankings? thats like out of sales copy. What you need for this experiment is top ranking like number ones or it is USELESS. many sites go to first page and then fall dramatically without any interference. Most of us have seen that repeatedly even without much backlinking. So if the page falls from just the front page then we won't have any real proof that its the backlinks that caused it. In order for this to mean anything it has to be a page that ranks high and has ranked for awhile to show its stability. Then and if it drops you can more clearly say that was the cause.

Thats why I said earlier on that the best and most scientific way of doing this research would be to find a site than ranks number one and has for awhile and take it out. With all the Imers that believe it is impossible and backlinks can only help then you would think someone would jump to it.

Instead this thread is being dominated now by people looking to rank number one who haven't or can't on their own and its become more focused on that rather than the real experiment. in short the thread has become one for opportunistic webmasters and service sellers who really don't care at the end of the day whether the results are conclusive and/or scientific and thats what will end up making the whole thread and test useless.

You just said what everyone has been saying to the OP. The fact that his site fell from the 1st page had nothing to do with a small backlink blast he did it could be many factors. He swears his less than 6 month old site on the 1st page fell from a backlink blast.

I also disagree that this thread has become about ranking #1 and webmaster services. The action of taking the ten sites to #1 will be done in the war room where most of us won't even see it...the real experiment is for the OP to knock those sites of less than six months off the front page with backlinks.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

You just said what everyone has been saying to the OP. .

Nope you are interpreting it that way - big difference. I can't say like you gents claim to know for fact that it was not the backlinks. As for whether the thread was derailed or hijacked - well we will know when and if there ever is a test going on in here about the site being hit down by backlinks won't we? right now for the last two to three pages its a been all about getting sites ranked.

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Talen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Nope you are interpreting it that way - big difference. I can't say like you gents claim to know for fact that it was not the backlinks. As for whether the thread was derailed or hijacked - well we will know when and if there ever is a test going on in here about the site being hit down by backlinks won't we? right now for the last two to three pages its a been all about getting sites ranked.

Mike I interpreted it that way because of one statement you made:

many sites go to first page and then fall dramatically without any interference.

This is a true statement. The OP on the other hand started this thread stating that one small blast of links to 2 of his money sites gave him a -950 penalty in a short matter of time.

The difference is you are saying we can't be sure what caused the penalty where the OP is saying with 100% certainty that the backlinks caused the problem.

While I can't say definitively that the backlinks didn't cause the problem I can say I have never experienced any such penalty doing the same types of linking to new sites...they may dance some but not be removed to the supplemental index.

As for the last 2-3 pages being about ranking, well that's part and parcel of the experiment. In order to do the experiment sites are needed that are less than 6 months old and ranked #1. While many people believe that blasting a newer site with 6000 backlinks won't kill it most of us won't offer up one of our stable ranked #1 sites either just in case.

So we have offered up new websites that aren't ranked and someone is going to rank them...again he is going to do it in the war room and most of us won't see it and if he wants to make something out of it so be it it. If he can rank 10 sites to #1 in a short period of time then he deserves to make some money out of the deal and you can bet he will. still has nothing to do with the experiment which is killing #1 ranked sites with a 6000 link blast.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

Mike I interpreted it that way because of one statement you made:

This is a true statement. The OP on the other hand started this thread stating that one small blast of links to 2 of his money sites gave him a -950 penalty in a short matter of time.

The difference is you are saying we can't be sure what caused the penalty where the OP is saying with 100% certainty that the backlinks caused the problem.

While I can't say definitively that the backlinks didn't cause the problem I can say I have never experienced any such penalty doing the same types of linking to new sites...they may dance some but not be removed to the supplemental index.

As for the last 2-3 pages being about ranking, well that's part and parcel of the experiment. In order to do the experiment sites are needed that are less than 6 months old and ranked #1. While many people believe that blasting a newer site with 6000 backlinks won't kill it most of us won't offer up one of our stable ranked #1 sites either just in case.

So we have offered up new websites that aren't ranked and someone is going to rank them...again he is going to do it in the war room and most of us won't see it and if he wants to make something out of it so be it it. If he can rank 10 sites to #1 in a short period of time then he deserves to make some money out of the deal and you can bet he will. still has nothing to do with the experiment which is killing #1 ranked sites with a 6000 link blast.

I totally agree with Talen. I for one will build sites with more competitive keywords than i am now and sign those sites up with Matt's service if he can build these 10 sites to page one and fight off the OP's attacks.

It is great marketing on his part and i see that he asked other SEO experts offering their services to join in also so he is being pretty fair about the whole thing.

Why bash him for it when anyone can do the same?

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfmanjack

Why bash him for it when anyone can do the same?

That is too radical for some. They prefer debate to action. But anyone wanting to make a name for themselves in a marketplace that is producing millions a year in backlink sales seems like they would of stepped up and helped 10 Warriors.

Just saying.

But as for the purpose of this experiment I second the fact that it would take too long to get all ten sites ranked to be able to conclude the test.

Let's find ten sites already on page one that fits the parameters op is looking for. That way we can begin testing right away. Those I promised page one rankings to can pm me and I will give them a link to my ticket system so we can get started with their campaigns.

I will commit to finding one such site/domain if a few other Warriors will do the same.

Sound logical?

Edit: What is it going to take for me to convince Mr. Anthony and friends that I'm not here to pimp my services. The WSO section is on fire right now anyways. Summer vacations are over and the kids are back to school.

I'm a dude who really loves SEO and am looking for some mates to talk shop with. Can we agree that a disabled sig equates forevermore as a marketer not on the prowl?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

That is too radical for some......

But as for the purpose of this experiment I second the fact that it would take too long to get all ten sites ranked to be able to conclude the test.

and there we have it...... So claim its too radical for us and then agree we are right in the same post. Now that the big tease is over can we get this thread back to doing a test that will actually happen in our lifetime? I would love to see what links the OP has up his sleeve.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

and there we have it...... So claim its too radical for us and then agree we are right in the same post. Now that the big tease is over can we get this thread back to doing a test that will actually happen in our lifetime? I would love to see what links the OP has up his sleeve.

You are right I have no idea what you have done but i do not agree with the premise of finding random sites to try and destroy. It is immoral to do so only for a test unless the site owner agrees to it.

i know you do not care about my opinion but i think that trying to destroy 10 sites that the site owners agreed to is a much better option than finding 10 sites to destroy just to satisfy our quest for knowledge.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfmanjack

You are right I have no idea what you have done but i do not agree with the premise of finding random sites to try and destroy. It is immoral to do so only for a test unless the site owner agrees to it.

i know you do not care about my opinion but i think that trying to destroy 10 sites that the site owners agreed to is a much better option than finding 10 sites to destroy just to satisfy our quest for knowledge.

Good grief! :rolleyes:

Pick a wiki page & run with it!

They have thousands of #1 ranking pages & no intention on monetizing any of their pages.

That crazy 6 month deal doesn't even make any sense.

How do you guys know 6 months is the breaking point? Why not 3 months, 4 months, 9 months...

If anyone can dethrone a #1 in the SERPs - PROVE IT!

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Good grief! :rolleyes:

Pick a wiki page & run with it!

They have thousands of #1 ranking pages & no intention on monetizing any of their pages.

That crazy 6 month deal doesn't even make any sense.

How do you guys know 6 months is the breaking point? Why not 3 months, 4 months, 9 months...

If anyone can dethrone a #1 in the SERPs - PROVE IT!

neil_patmore is the one that is attempting the dethroning and his requirements are less than 6 months old. He says that it would not work on older established sites so unless you can find a new wiki page that is ranked then it would not fit his parameters.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfmanjack

You are right I have no idea what you have done but i do not agree with the premise of finding random sites to try and destroy. It is immoral to do so only for a test unless the site owner agrees to it.

good for you now just point out to us where that premise was made. you just made it up out of thin air. this is now my third time saying that with all the warriors that swear it is impossible to hurt a site there should be one to step forward and agree to take the links to their site. sheesh it can't be that difficult to read :rolleyes:

oh and wolfman thanks for proving my point - on this page alone you have multiple posts that have nothing to do with the subject of this thread but merely following along with its hijack.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

That is too radical for some. They prefer debate to action. But anyone wanting to make a name for themselves in a marketplace that is producing millions a year in backlink sales seems like they would of stepped up and helped 10 Warriors.

Just saying.

But as for the purpose of this experiment I second the fact that it would take too long to get all ten sites ranked to be able to conclude the test.

Let's find ten sites already on page one that fits the parameters op is looking for. That way we can begin testing right away. Those I promised page one rankings to can pm me and I will give them a link to my ticket system so we can get started with their campaigns.

I will commit to finding one such site/domain if a few other Warriors will do the same.

Sound logical?

That is mighty generous and honorable of you Matt and I will take you up on your offer but i can not pm you. It says i have to have 50 posts to pm you.

I also purchased your service for one of my other sites.

These guys bashing you did make me look at your profile and see all of the positive reviews your service has gotten and made me purchase now instead of waiting for the test results so i guess the saying "all advertising is good advertising is true" to a certain extent.

One question though. Are you guys going to get the permission of the site owners you find before you try to sink them? I know i would be really p****d off if someone did that to a site i had worked on to get #1 ranking.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfmanjack

One question though. Are you guys going to get the permission of the site owners you find before you try to sink them? I know i would be really p****d off if someone did that to a site i had worked on to get #1 ranking.

If the sites owner was ever in jeopardy we would need to warn them. I'm 100% positive all that will happen is their sites will improve. I have tested this pretty heavily already on a certain someone who ripped us off of $3k once after we deliver 18 page one rankings for him. Despite my best efforts all I did was kept hooking him up with better rankings. After awhile it felt pretty cool helping out someone who dicked us like he did.

Links are gifts of sustenance not bullets that can harm.

But if we are to be 100% ethical with this experiment then we need to set some further guidelines for the test:

1) Site owners need to give their permission before being used in the experiment
2) We use no spam tactics to rank the sites if we have to do it ourselves

Anything else?

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfmanjack

That is mighty generous and honorable of you Matt and I will take you up on your offer but i can not pm you. It says i have to have 50 posts to pm you.

I also purchased your service for one of my other sites.

These guys bashing you did make me look at your profile and see all of the positive reviews your service has gotten and made me purchase now instead of waiting for the test results so i guess the saying "all advertising is good advertising is true" to a certain extent.

One question though. Are you guys going to get the permission of the site owners you find before you try to sink them? I know i would be really p****d off if someone did that to a site i had worked on to get #1 ranking.

Here you go:

My Help Desk - Submit a ticket

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wolfmanjack 13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Here you go:

My Help Desk - Submit a ticket

doesn't work without transaction id's
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- mattlaclear 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by wolfmanjack
  
  doesn't work without transaction id's
  
  Use "test campaign with matt". I am keeping track Warriors. I know what sites are on the list.
  
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  wolfmanjack 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mattlaclear
  
  Use "test campaign with matt". I am keeping track Warriors. I know what sites are on the list.
  
  success. thanks matt
  
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  Talen 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mattlaclear
  
  Use "test campaign with matt". I am keeping track Warriors. I know what sites are on the list.
  
  Thanks Matt, I sent you the info and have a few other sites I'm going to purchase campaigns for...will definitely update on the progress here.
  
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfmanjack

It is great marketing on his part and i see that he asked other SEO experts offering their services to join in also so he is being pretty fair about the whole thing.

Why bash him for it when anyone can do the same?

You are new here and don't know anything about what we have done here in the past so don't start lecturing. If everyone turned every thread into "great marketing" for their product or services there wouldn't be anything worth anything in this forum.

Because other SEO experts don't want to join in and make the whole thing about who can rank what and how fast (and I guarantee you it would come down to that at some point) means absolutely nothing. As a matter of fact why would I join in on this when I do believe backlinks can potentially hurt a site? Expose my network, resources and techniques to rank a site number one only for a test so it can be tanked? Absolutely the stupidest thing I ever heard of in my life.

Some of us have already stated better alternatives to achieve this test - like the totally obvious - take a site that is already ranking and forget all this posturing about ranking sites and get on with the experiment that lets see actually has something to do with what the OP said could be done.

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PatrickP

13 years ago

Well if they do the experiment and they don't fall back that proves it is not true. Pretty simple.

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wolfmanjack 13 years ago

Originally Posted by PatrickP

Well if they do the experiment and they don't fall back that proves it is not true. Pretty simple.

Also if ALL of the sites get knocked off it would mean there is a pretty good chance it does work.

I am interested in this because so many people are promoting services to blast their sites with 3,000+ links with some also offering to ping all of these sites in one day.

I figured it would be easy for google to figure out if a site is only getting 10 to 100 links a day then all of a sudden gets pinged with 3,000+ links in one day that it was being SENuked or Xrumered.

Likewise for other services being offered. There are boatloads of people promoting keep it natural in the eyes of google. Will a 1 or 2 month daily campaign of 100 links a day by Matt or another SEO service provider be able to withstand an attack for a new site that has not gained trust by google yet?
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PatrickP

13 years ago

I just joined the war room and have taken a look around and gotten quite a few free downloads with no email address needed.

Not sure how they lead to lots of sales.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by PatrickP

I just joined the war room and have taken a look around and gotten quite a few free downloads with no email address needed.

Not sure how they lead to lots of sales.

Think it through and you'll get it. You might not but many people do familiarize themselves with the person who made the offer and what else they have to offer in their sig plus its pretty easy to see if you do a War room thread on how you ranked a site you are going to get sales if you offer the service generally - very obvious and not even debatable.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

I freely admit i do not know much about this so I for one am reading this thread to LEARN.

Look at all of the contradictory information there is on the net about SEO. How are any of us that are new to this supposed to sort fact from fiction?

I have had people tell me not to make any backlinks until my site is at least a month old to avoid googles attention.

Other people claim they can be stuck on page one in less than a month.

Where do we get the real facts from so we know what we are talking about? It looks to me like most of the people that do SEO for a living can't agree among themselves so how are newbies like me supposed to know what is the real information?

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omurphy22

13 years ago

Just because spammy low value backlinks sunk your websites, doesn't mean the same will happen to if you somehow redirected the links to a competitor.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Wait a second Warriors. Is that a screenshot of a Google Analytics report that OP posted?

Could be when his site received the extra links and GA reported a high bounce rate and shuffled it down in the index as a result.

I never use GA on sites I'm running campaigns on. Google wants to find the most relevant content they can find. You can bet your page one ranking is in jeopardy if your site isn't holding customers for at least 5 minutes on your landing page. So if it's a squeeze page you're toast. So don't use GA.

Can I prove this assumption? We actually could if we wanted to.

Is it what happened with op? Who knows.

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wolfmanjack

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Wait a second Warriors. Is that a screenshot of a Google Analytics report that OP posted?

Could be when his site received the extra links and GA reported a high bounce rate and shuffled it down in the index as a result.

I never use GA on sites I'm running campaigns on. Google wants to find the most relevant content they can find. You can bet your page one ranking is in jeopardy if your site isn't holding customers for at least 5 minutes on your landing page. So if it's a squeeze page you're toast. So don't use GA.

Can I prove this assumption? We actually could if we wanted to.

Is it what happened with op? Who knows.

i have another friend tell me not to use google analytics on my sites before i built them so you agree with him?

I have seen articles stating google announced the bounce rate affects your ranking so these WSO's advocating using link exchange services to increase traffic would do more harm than good since most of these people will only stay the required 30 seconds. If i remember correctly the article mentioned visitors should stay for an average of 2 minutes or so. Do you think they need to average 5 minutes or is 2 minutes good enough?

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

OK, I've read over what I've missed and let me tell you where I'm at:

I started the thread for one reason and one reason only, to let people know my experiences with creating a particular type of links and how it has negatively affected the serps rankings on two of my sites. It may actually be affecting a third and I'm keeping an eye closely on this site because it is a potential winner.

If Matt wants to get sites ranked #1 for the experiment then that's kind of him to put his time and effort into doing so and if he wants to go into the War Room and create a thread about how he got the sites to #1 then great, good for Matt.

However, my interaction, my involvement and the reports on what I do, how I create the backlinks and what the results are, will remain here, in this thread, free for all. I'm not looking to make any money out of this, just an interesting discussion, experiment with a bit of fun along the way, for the greater good of the community.

Oh, and of course the opportunity to stick 2 fingers up at everyone of you MoFo's who said I was wrong!

A couple of things I'd like to address:

#1: These links are not blasts, I've said it several times already but some of you seem to have a hard time understanding this. But just for the record, I'll say it again, these links are not blasts.

#2: I don't see the point in trying to knock a wiki page out of the serps because I really don't think it will work. The wiki page will have too much trust for any kind of shady link building to affect it no? I'm willing to give it a go after this experiment is finished, no problem at all.

#3 I don't know wether the best age for the domain to be is 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, how am I suppoed to know? What I do know is my sites where less than 6 months old with a rock solid #1 ranking for their key phrases.

#4: The site has to be ranking stable #1. I absolutely agree that there's no point in a site simply floating around page 1. What's the point of going to all this effort only to have someone say afterwards that the site was dancing anyway so the experiment is pointless?

#5: The original offer still applies, if anyone already has a site ranking #1 less than 6 months old they're willing to sacrifice (sorry, volunteer), please step forward.

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Talen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

OK, I've read over what I've missed and let me tell you where I'm at:

I started the thread for one reason and one reason only, to let people know my experiences with creating a particular type of links and how it has negatively affected the serps rankings on two of my sites. It may actually be affecting a third and I'm keeping an eye closely on this site because it is a potential winner.

If Matt wants to get sites ranked #1 for the experiment then that's kind of him to put his time and effort into doing so and if he wants to go into the War Room and create a thread about how he got the sites to #1 then great, good for Matt.

However, my interaction, my involvement and the reports on what I do, how I create the backlinks and what the results are, will remain here, in this thread, free for all. I'm not looking to make any money out of this, just an interesting discussion, experiment with a bit of fun along the way, for the greater good of the community.

Oh, and of course the opportunity to stick 2 fingers up at everyone of you MoFo's who said I was wrong!

A couple of things I'd like to address:

#1: These links are not blasts, I've said it several times already but some of you seem to have a hard time understanding this. But just for the record, I'll say it again, these links are not blasts.

Then you are telling us that you created 6000 backlinks manually?

#3 I don't know wether the best age for the domain to be is 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, how am I suppoed to know? What I do know is my sites where less than 6 months old with a rock solid #1 ranking for their key phrases.

How sure are you that a site less then 6 months old had a rock solid #1? Google has been known to give newer sites a boost then take it away.

#4: The site has to be ranking stable #1. I absolutely agree that there's no point in a site simply floating around page 1. What's the point of going to all this effort only to have someone say afterwards that the site was dancing anyway so the experiment is pointless?

Technically the whole experiment is pointless anyway unless we create a site exactly like yours in your niche...otherwise a whole host of variables come into play. I would think if you could knock any stable first page ranking that would suffice.

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caskofdregs

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Wait a second Warriors. Is that a screenshot of a Google Analytics report that OP posted?

Could be when his site received the extra links and GA reported a high bounce rate and shuffled it down in the index as a result.

I never use GA on sites I'm running campaigns on. Google wants to find the most relevant content they can find. You can bet your page one ranking is in jeopardy if your site isn't holding customers for at least 5 minutes on your landing page. So if it's a squeeze page you're toast. So don't use GA.

Can I prove this assumption? We actually could if we wanted to.

Is it what happened with op? Who knows.

I just installed GA on one of my sites that has been ranking on page 1 for many keywords, and it came up with a bounce rate of 56%.

After that, the site went from page one for my main keyword to someone within the murky depths of 500 pages.

I haven't done anything to the site in a week except add a 1000 word article I wrote myself.

So I can say this might be true, in my case.

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Wait a second Warriors. Is that a screenshot of a Google Analytics report that OP posted?

Could be when his site received the extra links and GA reported a high bounce rate and shuffled it down in the index as a result.

I never use GA on sites I'm running campaigns on. Google wants to find the most relevant content they can find. You can bet your page one ranking is in jeopardy if your site isn't holding customers for at least 5 minutes on your landing page. So if it's a squeeze page you're toast. So don't use GA.

Can I prove this assumption? We actually could if we wanted to.

Is it what happened with op? Who knows.

That would be kind of an interesting test. Take a bunch of sites with GA running and a bunch of sites without GA running. Blast them with junk and see if there is any difference in how they react.

I don't have any established sites to do this with, but I could probably find a few undeveloped domains sitting around that I could donate to this for someone to play with. I'd even be willing to buy a couple to toss into it if needed.

Thanks
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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Neil: It's unrealistic to expect someone to offer a stable #1 ranking website that they intentionally got there.

Since you are game for any site on page 1, then I offer you to proceed with the site I offered for this test. It's stable on page 1, number 6 for a competitive keyword.

zygorlevelingguide.org

Keyword: zygor leveling guide

Please do proceed with the test as we are all interested and curious to see what happens, unless Matt wants to take it to number 1 first. Hopefully this proves to Mike Anthony not all of us are opportunistic marketers and service sellers.

P.S - It's running GA on it, and once again less than 6 months old.

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mubb

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Neil: It's unrealistic to expect someone to offer a stable #1 ranking website that they intentionally got there.
...
Please do proceed with the test as we are all interested and curious to see what happens, ...

yes Neil, we are all interested and curious

come on let us see how this backlinking is going to affect the site.

TheFBGuy offered a good site to test the theory, and the thread is now on its 6th page and for God sake let us see some results !!!!

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

TheFBGuy offered a good site to test the theory, and the thread is now on its 6th page and for God sake let us see some results !!!!

Ha ha, that comment really did make me laugh out loud - I can sense your frustration!!

Ok, no problem. I just need to finish what I'm working on and then I'll send both The FBGuy and TryBPO an email from their whois records. Actually, I don't know TryBPO's domains yet so I need to get them first. Once all 4 domains have been confirmed ownership I'll create the links and we'll see what happens.

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Ha ha, that comment really did make me laugh out loud - I can sense your frustration!!

Ok, no problem. I just need to finish what I'm working on and then I'll send both The FBGuy and TryBPO an email from their whois records. Actually, I don't know TryBPO's domains yet so I need to get them first. Once all 4 domains have been confirmed ownership I'll create the links and we'll see what happens.

You can proceed and send me the email, so I can confirm while you wait for TryBPO.

P.S. - I am not sure if your links will do anything to it.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Wait a second Warriors. Is that a screenshot of a Google Analytics report that OP posted?

Could be when his site received the extra links and GA reported a high bounce rate and shuffled it down in the index as a result.

Good point. My only argument is that I'm sure bounce rate from GA probably does affect a site's ranking, certainly from #1 to #9 or #10, maybe even to #20.

But not from #1 to number #900+ in the supplemental index?

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

But not from #1 to number #900+ in the supplemental index?

Thats a safe bet.
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TryBPO

13 years ago

I have a few sites that are currently rank that I can put up for the test, but let me see if the parameters would work first. All 3 have unique content, very little backlinks created, etc. Here are the choices:

Site 1:
8 months old
#6 Google for main keyword

Site 2:
6 months old
#2 Google for main keyword

Site 3:
6 months old
#7 Google for main keyword

Would any of those work? Let me know and I'll remove AdSense and we can try it out...

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Then you are telling us that you created 6000 backlinks manually?

Yes.

How sure are you that a site less then 6 months old had a rock solid #1? Google has been known to give newer sites a boost then take it away.

QDF effect had long worn off and the sites had dropped to page 2 or 3 for their key phrases. Backlinking using AMR, BMR and ArticleRanks gradually bought the sites to #1 where they remained. Then I added the links and the sites disappeared after approx 3 weeks. I removed the links to 2 other sites once I saw what was happening and those sites remain top 4 in Google.

Technically the whole experiment is pointless anyway unless we create a site exactly like yours in your niche...

Maybe.

TryBPO, I'll give all 3 of them a go if you're game!

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

TryBPO, I'll give all 3 of them a go if you're game!

Well done Neil and TryBPO!! now the test and thread can get back on track and send the hijackers/freebie lookers packing. Finding sites already ranking was always the best way to do this

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Hopefully this proves to Mike Anthony not all of us are opportunistic marketers and service sellers.

Never said that really. My comments were aimed at sellers that use EVERY thread they are in to push their service. To be honest there are very few that do that possibly only one or two (or um one). most of us who have been around this board for two years plus have had some threads where we just talked SEO and contributed without waving our hands and saying okay now how can i make this thread about what I am selling. Marketers? sure but sometimes you got to keep it in the sig or its just grating especially if you have been around and contributed to this particular part of the forum for years.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

You can proceed and send me the email, so I can confirm while you wait for TryBPO.

Hi The FBGuy, I've sent the email to your whoisguard email addy from your whois record. Keep an eye out and reply as soon as you can!

Thanks.

Thanks
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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Hi The FBGuy, I've sent the email to your whoisguard email addy from your whois record. Keep an eye out and reply as soon as you can!

Thanks.

I checked several times in my namecheap account or personal yahoo account registered with namecheap, so far nothing. Is this even necessary? I am the owner of this domain, lol.

Edit: My whois as you can see is private, so I'm not sure it will go through if you sent to that long email provided there.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I checked several times in my namecheap account or personal yahoo account registered with namecheap, so far nothing. Is this even necessary? I am the owner of this domain, lol.

Sorry matey, just need to make sure. I sent the same email to the gmail account on the site but it bounces back?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Sorry matey, just need to make sure. I sent the same email to the gmail account on the site but it bounces back?

FB perhaps put a code word or something on the site to show its under your control. Neil is doing the right and respectful thing by making sure that he is not attempting to tank a site where the owner has not agreed to the test.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

FB perhaps put a code word or something on the site to show its under your control. Neil is doing the right and respectful thing by making sure that he is not attempting to tank a site where the owner has not agreed to the test.

Now your just making things to easy!

Code word = [Lock and load!]

Thanks
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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Yes! Saw the email and confirmed. Proceed Neil, proceed!

Hello!

Please reply to confirm you are happy for me to send links to your site zygorlevelingguide.org with the sole objective of harming your Google Serps position as per this thread:

warriorforum.com/adsense-ppc-seo-discussion-forum/440854-google-flawed-you-can-influence-other-sites-rankings-backlinks-6.html Google is Flawed - You Can Influence Other Sites' Rankings With Backlinks - Page 6

Once you reply via email to confirm you are happy to proceed, I shall start building the links.

Many thanks,

Neil.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Edit: My whois as you can see is private, so I'm not sure it will go through if you sent to that long email provided there.

It should automatically forward to the email address you used during registration. I had a cease and desist from Lego last Christmas and they sent me the initial emails using the WhoisGuard address!

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

FB perhaps put a code word or something on the site to show its under your control. Neil is doing the right and respectful thing by making sure that he is not attempting to tank a site where the owner has not agreed to the test.

Thanks Mike and good idea. Add the phrase 'link me up baby' somewhere to the site and I'll go take a look. As soon as I've had a look you can remove it!

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Yes! Saw the email and confirmed. Proceed Neil, proceed!

Excellent, confirmation received. I will begin building the links this evening and confirm on this thread once done.

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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Excellent, confirmation received. I will begin building the links this evening and confirm on this thread once done.

Thanks. Great Neil, will be monitoring with great interest.
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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

I'm not trying to slam on anyone or their site.

For the record the site that TheFBGuy is testing only has 30 low PR backlinks (SEO Spyglass), the highest PR is a single PR1 backlink.

hxxp://zygorlevelingguide.org/

PR1 = 1

PR0 = 5

PRn/a = 24

The existing backlinks are not very strong, just saying.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Well then he should get a bounce then. On the other hand maybe Neil is just being brilliant. Comes on WF creates controversy that he has 6,000 links that can destroy your site, gets people lined up to test it, gets every site he tests to number one

and then opens a WSO!!!!
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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I'm not trying to slam on anyone or their site.

For the record the site that TheFBGuy is testing only has 30 low PR backlinks (SEO Spyglass), the highest PR is a single PR1 backlink.

hxxp://zygorlevelingguide.org/

PR1 = 1

PR0 = 5

PRn/a = 24

The existing backlinks are not very strong, just saying.

I wonder what your analysis says about my on page SEO then, because like I said, competition is strong.

Nevertheless we shall see what happens.

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yukon Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

I wonder what your analysis says about my on page SEO then, because like I said, competition is strong.

Nevertheless we shall see what happens.

TrafficTravis gives you an A+ for your Index page on-page seo & the keyword zygor leveling guide.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I have a 9 month old site I can sacrifice. It's only #8, but I'm sure I can bump it up higher if we want to proceed.

(I'm also pretty confident that I can reverse the penalty if there is one.)

Hi James, yes why not. I'd be interested to see how well you do with reversing it, obviously something I'd like to be able to do myself! Let me have the URL, confirm ownership and away we go.

The existing backlinks are not very strong, just saying.

Yep I agree Yukon. My job shouldn't be too difficult with a site that ranks mainly due to on-page factors.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Yep I agree Yukon. My job shouldn't be too difficult with a site that ranks mainly due to on-page factors.

Hows it going with TryBPO? he had one ranked number 2
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- yukon Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  Hows it going with TryBPO? he had one ranked number 2
  
  TryBPO never posted any URLs, ot at least I didn't see any.
  
  [edit] never mind they just posted, lol.
  
  This thread is moving to fast.
  
  Thanks
  
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JamesGw

13 years ago

The one I'm offering up is pretty weak too and only like 30% developed (it's still pretty unoptimized and ugly as hell, but whatever.)

www.ectomorphworkout.info

6239 links reported in Webmaster tools.

Most of them are pretty junky since I was testing link blasts on it.

If you want to confirm, then shoot an email to the one listed in my whois. It's all public.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Updating sites right now...will have ready in a bit.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Here's the first site:

Cement Calculator

Keyword: cement calculator

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Here's the first site:

Cement Calculator

Keyword: cement calculator

OK neil you are up. Lets see if you can put Cement calculator in cement boots and sink it in google harbor.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

On the other hand maybe Neil is just being brilliant. Comes on WF creates controversy that he has 6,000 links that can destroy your site, gets people lined up to test it, gets every site he tests to number one

and then opens a WSO!!!!

Damn, rumbled! :-)

So with TryBPO's sites that's 5. Perfect. Doors shut and game on.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

So with TryBPO's sites that's 5. Perfect. Doors shut and game on.

The sky marshall is very happy. no more hijacks this test is finally ON!
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Ok...the other two:

Site #2:
Energy Booster Drinks
Keyword: energy booster drinks

Site #3: (Actually #1 on Google, but SERP mentions auto-correction...is that ok or should we use the other site at #2?)
AntiPerspiration - How To Stop Excessive Underarm Sweating, Best AntiPerspirant
Keyword: antiperspiration

I donked up this theme as I was making the changes...ugh...trying to fix now.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Oh, by the way...before I get the guffaws and snickers about my absolutely miserable keywords! lol...my first attempt at these types of sites here...struggled with the broad vs. exact search issue with the GKT...DOH!

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Oh, by the way...before I get the guffaws and snickers about my absolutely miserable keywords! lol

Won't get that from me. As a matter of fact if you lose any position then we should all pitch in and help you with whatever you need to rank for a money site. For stepping up you two deserve it.

Neil you are a loafer. its been a good fifteen minutes and the sites haven't moved.
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Ok...now that we're on...what are we doing again? :-)

We were going to add Matt's links and then add the others, seeing if they dropped in the SERPs...do we need Matt's anymore or can we just add the OPs links?

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Ok...now that we're on...what are we doing again? :-)

We were going to add Matt's links and then add the others, seeing if they dropped in the SERPs...do we need Matt's anymore or can we just add the OPs links?

We're just dropping already ranked pages.

---

Also, should we make a new thread for the actual experiment?

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Cool...that will work, JamesGw.

Also, I think we should define a "drop". A couple of spots wouldn't do much...I'd say something like Page 4 or worse would be definitive, yes?

Either way, if the OP has a definite way to drop sites, he'll have a real money maker there, lol.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Cool...that will work, JamesGw.

Also, I think we should define a "drop". A couple of spots wouldn't do much...I'd say something like Page 4 or worse would be definitive, yes?

Either way, if the OP has a definite way to drop sites, he'll have a real money maker there, lol.

No, it's supposed to be obliterated from the SERPs.

No trace of the already ranked page in the SERPs, after the blast kicks in.

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

No, it's supposed to be obliterated from the SERPs.

No trace of the already ranked page in the SERPs, after the blast kicks in.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that, prove me wrong Neil.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I hope I don't get obliterated. I make a surprising amount of money from that MMA site. That said, I'm still very confident I can resurrect it if it does die.

Just by looking at the backlink profiles, I have a feeling that if any of them escape, it might be yours!

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Just by looking at the backlink profiles, I have a feeling that if any of them escape, it might be yours!

Lol, I guess that means my little site is doomed you think?

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Talen

13 years ago

I think it would be a good idea if Neil explains his backlinking progress as well. How he goes about building said backlinks and exacly what kind of backlinks they are.

And, as he said he built the original 6000 backlinks manually, I'm curios as to how he will do this in a short period of time to all these sites.

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SilentSilence 13 years ago

6000 backlinks?

I want!

But seriously, even after building 20 or so links to my newer sites, I usually notice a dip in rankings. But as everyone has suggested, it always comes back stronger for it.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I think it would be a good idea if Neil explains his backlinking progress as well. How he goes about building said backlinks and exacly what kind of backlinks they are.

And, as he said he built the original 6000 backlinks manually, I'm curios as to how he will do this in a short period of time to all these sites.

Absolutely, once I've built the links I'll explain what I've done.

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LiamP

13 years ago

My own conclusion on this issue is that it is being oversimplified by both sides.

One side says "it's impossible to penalize a site with backlinks". The other says "you can penalize any young site with enough backlinks"

My experience tells me the truth is in the middle. That it is entirely possible to penalize a young site with backlinks, but ONLY if that site lacks a certain something.
What that something is I'm not certain of - I suspect a combination of onpage factors and a diverse link profile.

But the existence of this certain something that Google sees explains why some people can sink their sites with links and some can't.
Each individual is correct when asserting they can/can't sink their sites. But only when it comes to THEIR sites.
Everyone is right, and everyone is wrong.

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retsek

13 years ago

Originally Posted by LiamP

My own conclusion on this issue is that it is being oversimplified by both sides.

One side says "it's impossible to penalize a site with backlinks". The other says "you can penalize any young site with enough backlinks"

My experience tells me the truth is in the middle. That it is entirely possible to penalize a young site with backlinks, but ONLY if that site lacks a certain something.
What that something is I'm not certain of - I suspect a combination of onpage factors and a diverse link profile.

But the existence of this certain something that Google sees explains why some people can sink their sites with links and some can't.
Each individual is correct when asserting they can/can't sink their sites. But only when it comes to THEIR sites.
Everyone is right, and everyone is wrong.

That "certain something" is anchor text variation.

And by the nature of that one side will be wrong since any negative linking can be fixed by adding more backlinks to even out percentages of anchor text.

The end result is campaigns bent on harming the site, will only aid it in the long term.

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LiamP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

That "certain something" is anchor text variation.

And by the nature of that one side will be wrong since any negative linking can be fixed by adding more backlinks to even out percentages of anchor text.

The end result is campaigns bent on harming the site, will only aid it in the long term.

Yes. One of the problems with this thread is that 'penalty' is often subjective. By penalize I mean being effectively knocked out of the serps for a period of weeks or a few months. It may be a limited amount of time but to me it's long enough and severe enough to be a called a penalty.

Anchor text variation may well be it. Does the OP use anchor text variation when knocking his sites out of the serps?
Matt LaClear does use anchor text variation so that may explain the difference between the differing results between them.

But I think anchor text variation is still being too simplistic. My guess is Google there would have to be numerous things being factored in. Also there would have to be triggers so that genuine viral sites aren't penalized.
Tricky, but then writing complex algorithms that deliver largely accurate results is what Google is good at.

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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by LiamP

But I think anchor text variation is still being too simplistic. .

Agreed. About a year back I remember reading through some patent discussions of Google and they CLEARLY discussed link velocity, a page's link graph and other factors to combat link spam (however patents don't mean implementation). I don't think that Google has a single factor in their algo that does not have several layers to it.

The problem with this test may be that they are mostly relatively weak terms. if you get slapped to the back of the line of relevant pages you don't have that far to drop.
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- neil_patmore 13 years ago
  
  OK, here goes:
  
  08/31/2011 - 09/01/2011
  
  The backlinks we're created to the following sites using the keyword specified:
  
  hxxp://zygorlevelingguide.org/
  keyword: Zygor Leveling Guide
  
  hxxp://cementcalculator.org/
  Keyword: Cement Calculator
  
  hxxp://energyboosterdrinks.com/
  Keyword: Energy Booster Drinks
  
  hxxp://antiperspiration.com/
  Keyword: Antiperspiration
  
  hxxp://www.mmastrengthandconditioning.info/
  Keyword: MMA Strength and Conditioning
  
  I'll calculate the exact number of backlinks created per site and update a little later.
  
  Thanks
  
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Alright...after 4am here in the Philippines. Does anyone need anything more from me or can I go to bed?

Sites look ok? Did I leave anything on them I should take off since we're making this public?? Let me know...

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Alright...after 4am here in the Philippines. Does anyone need anything more from me or can I go to bed?

No man you can go to bed. this what will be happening to your sites while you get shut eye

The Day After (Attack Segment) - YouTube
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- JamesGw 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  No man you can go to bed. this what will be happening to your site while you get shut eye
  
  The Day After (Attack Segment) - YouTube
  
  Now I'm scared.
  
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Funny stuff, Mike. We'll see! :-)

See you guys tomorrow...not looking forward to all the reading in this thread though...ugh! :-)

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Neil you are a loafer. its been a good fifteen minutes and the sites haven't moved.

Mate, you sound like my wife, except replace 'sites' with 'dishes'!

I just need confirmation of site ownership. James and TryBPO I'll send you an email shortly and once you reply, I'll build the links.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Oh, I kinda forgot. My site should be ranking higher. It was #5, but my billing for that hosting account didn't go through for August and I didn't realize for a few days. Downtime penalty fml.

Alternatively, I can just give you access to the Analytics account if you'd prefer. Might be easier to keep track of stuff that way.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Email quick...I'm fading fast!

Want me to just put a code on the sites?

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

Email quick...I'm fading fast!

Want me to just put a code on the sites?

Mate don't worry, you go to bed. We'll sort confirmation out in the morning.
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- neil_patmore 13 years ago
  
  Perfect!
  
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Put "Neil, don't tank me!" at the bottom of the page here:

Concrete Block Calculator | Cement Calculator

Hurry...need to sleep!

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Put "Neil, don't tank me!" at the bottom of the page here:

Concrete Block Calculator | Cement Calculator

Hurry...need to sleep!

seen it - confirmed. go to bed man unless Neil wants the others as well
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Good enough, Neil?

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

neil_patmore,

Are you going to post all the backlinks (csv file?) once you finish testing?

Just like to see what you tested...

Thanks

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Good enough, Neil?

Sorry, perfect. go to bed man!

Are you going to post all the backlinks (csv file?) once you finish testing?

Just like to see what you tested...

No problem.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Alternatively, I can just give you access to the Analytics account if you'd prefer. Might be easier to keep track of stuff that way.

It's #9 in my search so a bit low down but shall we go ahead and add it anyway? I'll send you an email right now.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Last thing and I'm done...swear. Can someone track rankings (non geo/logged in biased), current + new backlinks, etc. and give updates here when they can? I think that would be helpful for all involved.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Last thing and I'm done...swear. Can someone track rankings (non geo/logged in biased), current + new backlinks, etc. and give updates here when they can? I think that would be helpful for all involved.

I'm sure that can be arranged.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Here, I'll give you a another site:

MMA Strength and Conditioning - Workouts for MMA - MMASnC

I think it's #7 or so. Was #3 before it died for a few days.

Still waiting on an email.

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

Hi James, Sent you an email for both sites. Thanks.
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JamesGw

13 years ago

Alright, all sent out.

Also, I reiterate: New thread?

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JamesGw

13 years ago

I hope I don't get obliterated. I make a surprising amount of money from that MMA site. That said, I'm still very confident I can resurrect it if it does die.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Alright, all sent out.

Also, I reiterate: New thread?

All received. A new thread might be easier to follow, if everyone agrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukon

No, it's supposed to be obliterated from the SERPs.

No trace of the already ranked page in the SERPs, after the blast kicks in.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that, prove me wrong Neil.

That's what happened to me. TWICE!

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dv8domainsDotCom

13 years ago

:amusement
Just a thought: can I resell your free 6000+ backlink package as a WSO for new sites?

/:amusement

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I suspect a combination of onpage factors and a diverse link profile.

Anchor text variation may well be it. Does the OP use anchor text variation when knocking his sites out of the serps?

Morning all. Liam, I agree. I think some sort of over optimisation filter is tripped due to on page and off page factors.

We all know on-page over optimisation trips filters fairly easily these days. Those crappy IPK sites and even the tamed down sniper sites trip filters fairly reguarly. Now, the ones that slip through the net and start ranking at a fairly young age seem to have struck the balance with good on-page and sloppy on-page factors. This is what I focus much of my time on, getting the on-page 'just right', not too much, not too less.

Things like making the key phrase 'part' of the title and not 'the' title. Same with the header tags. Not too much keyword density, plenty of LSI variations, don't over do the internal linking with the key phrase as anchor text, etc. Just enough to not trip the filters.

But then add in 6k of a certain type of link all with the same key phrase anchor text you're optimising for and bam, you trip the filter and down goes your site.

That's my theory anyway, of course, I may well be talking complete rubbish! :-)

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

All backlinks have now been built :-)

All sites and rss feeds have been pinged. Hopefully links will start getting indexed shortly.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

All backlinks have now been built :-)

All sites and rss feeds have been pinged. Hopefully links will start getting indexed shortly.

Neil if its not too much trouble could we have all the keywords and URLs submitted to in one post. Its kind of scattered throughout the thread. thanks for getting this on track!
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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

All backlinks have now been built :-)

All sites and rss feeds have been pinged. Hopefully links will start getting indexed shortly.

Well done Neil, this should be interesting.
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Great, Neil

Now comes the waiting game, eh? Interesting to see how this plays out...I'm still of the opinion that it won't do anything but we'll see. My sites have VERY few backlinks built to them so it's not like these would be a small percentage of the pointed links the sites have.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

No negative change for me so far. Actually went up one spot.

Zygor is on page 2.

Rest are all the same.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JamesGw

No negative change for me so far. Actually went up one spot.

Zygor is on page 2.

Rest are all the same.

kinda early unless Neil was a master of getting links all indexed in record time. Time will tell but seeing all the terms together confirms - this is some weak stuff so there might not even be enough relevant sites to send them very far down to the back of the line

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

kinda early unless Neil was a master of getting links all indexed in record time. Time will tell but seeing all the terms together confirms - this is some weak stuff so there might not even be enough relevant sites to send them very far down to the back of the line

Keeping an eye on things because a lot of people claim their site drops after only a few hours of building links. Do I think it'll happen that fast? No, not really. But still worth observing IMO.

Agree that the terms are weak as well.

A lot of the sites also don't have many links.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

So OP is submitting 3,000 links manually to all 5 sites? For a total of 15k manual links??? Or are the 3k worth of links going to be spread out over the 5 sites?

Either way this experiment is going to be a bit time consuming. So long in fact the Google Dance may not even take place given the pace of the links.

Plus we need to agree that if any of the sites drop from the rankings we need to wait at least a few weeks to see if they return at a higher position before we call an end to the experiment.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Well...you have our sites at your complete disposal. They're sites that are just kind of hanging around. Are you guys saying that the drop in ranking wouldn't happen because they're not competitive enough?

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Well...you have our sites at your complete disposal. They're sites that are just kind of hanging around. Are you guys saying that the drop in ranking wouldn't happen because they're not competitive enough?

The main premise OP is making with the thread is that Google is flawed. But the more parameters thrown into this test pretty much proves G isn't as flawed as he is making them out to be.

Basically the sites have to be: 1) brand new, 2)high comp

Every time another parameter is offered Google becomes less and less flawed in my eyes.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Well...you have our sites at your complete disposal. They're sites that are just kind of hanging around. Are you guys saying that the drop in ranking wouldn't happen because they're not competitive enough?

Why wonder? Thats why you do tests. Matt is right it would have to be left awhile before you can come to any long term conclusion. I don't know its possible their lack of competitiveness will tell us something as well. Wait and see

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

The same amount of links have been built to all sites. I'll get the exact number a little later but it's exactly the same links to each site.

Based on my experience (which may or may not be worth anything

) nothing is going to happen for a while. It took a good 3 weeks before my sites dropped and they did climb before they dropped.

Personally, I think the sites which are ranking the highest, with the least amount of backlinks are going to be hit the worst.

Plus we need to agree that if any of the sites drop from the rankings we need to wait at least a few weeks to see if they return at a higher position before we call an end to the experiment.

Definately. I'm hoping at worst a 5 page drop and at best, last page of serps. Both for at least 30 days.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

The same amount of links have been built to all sites. I'll get the exact number a little later but it's exactly the same links to each site.

Five sites, 6,000 links each and done in a few hours

MANUAL MY EYE!!

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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Five sites, 6,000 links each and done in a few hours

MANUAL MY EYE!!

What, can't you sustain a manually post rate of 2.77 backlinks per second for just a few short hours? :confused:

All it takes is typing at a little over 800 words per minute while simultaneously clicking a mouse 700 times per minute. Anyone can do that, right?

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

What, can't you sustain a manually post rate of 2.77 backlinks per second for just a few short hours? :confused:

All it takes is typing at a little over 800 words per minute while simultaneously clicking a mouse 700 times per minute. Anyone can do that, right?

You ever see a teenager send a text message? They can do everything you just mentioned plus complain about having to clean their room all in the same swoop. Now that's talent!

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

You ever see a teenager send a text message? They can do everything you just mentioned plus complain about having to clean their room all in the same swoop. Now that's talent!

In my family its the xbox 360. If you could leave backlinks with the game controller my son would rule at link building.

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

In my family its the xbox 360. If you could leave backlinks with the game controller my son would rule at link building.

No doubt...I have to go down and make the kids go clean the room just to get 30 minutes on Fight Night 4. But at the football game tonight there were some teens sitting in front of us and I was amazed at how fast they could text. It didn't even look human.
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Talen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

The same amount of links have been built to all sites. I'll get the exact number a little later but it's exactly the same links to each site.

Based on my experience (which may or may not be worth anything

) nothing is going to happen for a while. It took a good 3 weeks before my sites dropped and they did climb before they dropped.

Personally, I think the sites which are ranking the highest, with the least amount of backlinks are going to be hit the worst.

Definately. I'm hoping at worst a 5 page drop and at best, last page of serps. Both for at least 30 days.

I find it hard to believe you created that many links manually in such a short period of time.

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Neil, we are still curiously waiting to see how you created these links.... so fast.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Neil, we are still curiously waiting to see how you created these links.... so fast.

OK, I understand. But once the links start to be indexed it will become obvious and I'll fill in the gaps.

Call me paranoid, but let the links become public domain first please! If this thing doesn't work out I'll have Matt ribbing me for years to come! :-)

Also, this is nothing new, please don't expect to be gobsmacked. Actually, I'm suprised no ones piped up and said ...

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

OK, I understand. But once the links start to be indexed it will become obvious and I'll fill in the gaps.

Call me paranoid, but let the links become public domain first please! If this thing doesn't work out I'll have Matt ribbing me for years to come! :-)

Also, this is nothing new, please don't expect to be gobsmacked. Actually, I'm suprised no ones piped up and said ...

No way will I rib you if it doesn't work. You're publicly testing what you think to be true. That takes guts. But if you can post that many manual links so fast I would like to speak to you about providing some work for us.

I know you think the links are harmful but you may be very surprised from the results that come in from this experiment.

I'm wondering if Ahrefs will pick up the links. I hope so. Will be interesting to see what you got brewing in your link kitchen.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Also, this is nothing new, please don't expect to be gobsmacked. Actually, I'm suprised no ones piped up and said ...

aaah no. Please tell me its not one of those..........I forgot what they call them where you drop in your domain with these domain information sites -- people swear they are great for indexing but still not really manual.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

aaah no. Please tell me its not one of those..........I forgot what they call them where you drop in your domain with these domain information sites -- people swear they are great for indexing but still not really manual.

Yeah I used to use those too when I first started out. Never really generated that much juice with them though. I forgot all about doing that until I read your post.

If that is what OP is doing I really doubt the rankings will drop now.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

aaah no. Please tell me its not one of those..........I forgot what they call them where you drop in your domain with these domain information sites -- people swear they are great for indexing but still not really manual.

Lol, If that's what it is, they'll have something like 100 sites following them in the SERPs when you search the domain name (not site:domain ).

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JawadAshraf

13 years ago

Too many back links can get you sandboxed but if they are unique and high PR then these are useful. Otherwise you are just wasting your time and effort.

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

MANUAL MY EYE!!

Scout's Honour!
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- Steadyon 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by neil_patmore
  
  Scout's Honour!
  
  I bet you were in the Boys Brigade and not the Scouts
  
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  neil_patmore 13 years ago
  
  I bet you were in the Boys Brigade and not the Scouts
  
  oooh, no lovey. They wouldn't have me ...
  
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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Ok, now If you guys are going to wait 3 weeks (or whatever) to see If the sites will be obliterated from the SERPs, then to be fair you should allow another 3 weeks for a rebound If it disappears.

Otherwise your only playing one side of the test.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Ok, now If you guys are going to wait 3 weeks (or whatever) to see If the sites will be obliterated from the SERPs, then to be fair you should allow another 3 weeks for a rebound If it disappears.

Agreed. This is kind of a long experiment but hopefully worth it.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

He must be like Data from Star Trek. Hands working feverishly at the speed of sound.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

He must be like Data from Star Trek. Hands working feverishly at the speed of sound.

Ha ha. Something like that! I've done exactly the same as I did with my sites.

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MrWonton

13 years ago

This is the best WF thread I've read for months. In for results!

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Five sites, 6,000 links each and done in a few hours

Total links to each site - 6096

See you tomorrow.

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Just wanted to chime in again as I haven't checked in on this thread in days due to frustration. Can I please sink a site. My way won't take long at all. Maybe 2 days tops but probably will happen the same day. Please someone just give me a site so I can prove this once and for all and we can all go on our merry little way. Preferably someone who's been really out spoken about how this doesn't work. I'd love if it were Paul but I doubt he'd pony up for this. I will guarantee the site will fall.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Just wanted to chime in again as I haven't checked in on this thread in days due to frustration. Can I please sink a site. My way won't take long at all. Maybe 2 days tops but probably will happen the same day. Please someone just give me a site so I can prove this once and for all and we can all go on our merry little way. Preferably someone who's been really out spoken about how this doesn't work. I'd love if it were Paul but I doubt he'd pony up for this. I will guarantee the site will fall.

To be clear, I don't think it's going to work and don't think the rankings will tank...but I don't really have a horse in this race either...I'm ok either way, just interested to see what happens.

I would ask that everyone try to leave the test alone so that we can see what the OP can do, but after a while, if we decide nothing has happened, maybe we can try your test then?

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

To be clear, I don't think it's going to work and don't think the rankings will tank...but I don't really have a horse in this race either...I'm ok either way, just interested to see what happens.

I would ask that everyone try to leave the test alone so that we can see what the OP can do, but after a while, if we decide nothing has happened, maybe we can try your test then?

I agree.

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

To be clear, I don't think it's going to work and don't think the rankings will tank...but I don't really have a horse in this race either...I'm ok either way, just interested to see what happens.

I would ask that everyone try to leave the test alone so that we can see what the OP can do, but after a while, if we decide nothing has happened, maybe we can try your test then?

Ok fair enough. I'd just like to point out though that I have done this tons of times. This isn't a "well this is what did it to one of my sites" type of thing. Ive successfully recreated this with many sites and I have even sunk competitors sites. Just keep that in mind if the OP's way doesn't work.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Just wanted to chime in again as I haven't checked in on this thread in days due to frustration. Can I please sink a site. My way won't take long at all. Maybe 2 days tops but probably will happen the same day. Please someone just give me a site

I see nothing wrong with this . As long as the domains and keywords are different it will not interfere with what is running. I won't be the one to offer any sites since I wouldn't have ranked them to be brought down and I actually do believe that sites can potentially be tanked. Like you said the best candidates are those that are certain it can't be tanked.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

aaah no. Please tell me its not one of those..........I forgot what they call them where you drop in your domain with these domain information sites -- people swear they are great for indexing but still not really manual.

No Mike, it's not using those Meta indexing type sites.

OK, I didn't want this to turn into a guess the links type thread so here's what I've done.

I've built site wide links (told you it was nothing new and I meant it!) into 7 sites that in total have 6096 indexed web pages and climbing every day. 6 of the sites have previously been blasted with low quality scrapebox/board links. 2 sites reside in the UK on one IP address and account for around half of the total links and the other 4 sites reside in the US on one IP address. The domain age ranges from approx 14 months to 4 years old.

Now, don't ask me why I decided to build 7 site wide links into 2 of my sites which were already ranking #1 but hey, you live and learn.

The reason I think this inflicted a penalty is because it tripped some kind of spam/paid link filter. Do site wide links harm? I don't think one site wide link from a relevant site is going to do any harm at all. But 7 site wide links from 7 irrelevant sites creating a total of 6096 backlinks with the same anchor text? At best you get 7 quality backlinks. At worst you get tanked.

I'd love if it were Paul but I doubt he'd pony up for this.

Oh I think that's a safe bet, check out his comment in this thread:
http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...0-penalty.html

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

I've never worried about site wide links, I add new sites external links to my higher PR sites footers all the time.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I've never worried about site wide links, I add new sites external links to my higher PR sites footers all the time.

Are your higher PR sites good quality sites Yukon?

Just asking because all these sites, except one (which I really didn't want to use in this experiment but included it because I used it with my sites and I wanted this to be a true representation of what I did) are low quality sites, blasted with low quality links.

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Matt.Lake

13 years ago

Ahhh... my guess was that they were site wide links! I didn't bother saying anything though.

Oh well, I'll go back to spectating :-)

My initial thoughts were... what about all the big media networks out there that interlink their sites with sitewide links... when a new site enters the network it no doubt receives 100,000s of links in one go in some cases?

But I guess, like you say Neil, if the sites are high quality then it would likely be fine... low quality, then perhaps not.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Ahhh... my guess was that they were site wide links! I didn't bother saying anything though.

You should have done, you would have got a gold star! :-)

But I guess, like you say Neil, if the sites are high quality then it would likely be fine... low quality, then perhaps not.

Time will tell. Will be very interesting to see what happens next.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Time will tell. Will be very interesting to see what happens next.

We will see but I am going to move over to the dubious side since I haven't seen a lot of evidence that sitewide links tank a site (discounted yes some evidence).

Originally Posted by TryBPO

I would ask that everyone try to leave the test alone so that we can see what the OP can do, but after a while, if we decide nothing has happened, maybe we can try your test then?

How will a test done on a different domain and keyword affect the present test? I have to be fair. Knowing the kind of links we are talking about now and the fact that it took several weeks to tank the site it really does open the door wide that there might have been other factors at work.

dp40oz's concurrent test would not affect anything and would give us more data. Lets face it - people are going to point at this thread and make all kinds of claims about backlinks being impossible to hurt a site if this one particular claim doesn't pan out. We have far more anecdotal evidence that direct scuzzy links like Xrummer blasts etc can tank a site than we do sitewide links. If what DP is saying is true the evidence would be much more direct and enhance causation conclusions based on it happening a lot faster.

If the Op is right then this would be extremely interesting though and in ways I would not have previously thought.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Go ahead and tank ectomorphworkout.info if you want.

Not that I don't think it'll work.

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

Links kicking in.
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- yukon Banned 13 years ago
  
  Which site/keyword is that screenshot for?
  
  Is that all sites? I'm blind in one eye & can't see out the other.
  
  Originally Posted by neil_patmore
  
  Links kicking in.
  
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  JamesGw 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  Which site/keyword is that screenshot for?
  
  Is that all sites? I'm blind in one eye & can't see out the other.
  
  It's all of them. My site is the red one. The rest had low backlink counts and overlap eachother for the most part.
  
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  neil_patmore 13 years ago
  
  It's all of them. My site is the red one. The rest had low backlink counts and overlap eachother for the most part.
  
  Exactly! Yours is the least conspicuous James LOL.
  
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- TheFBGuy 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by neil_patmore
  
  Links kicking in.
  
  Google loves my sites, this won't break that relationship!
  
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dp40oz

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JamesGw

Go ahead and tank ectomorphworkout.info if you want.

Not that I don't think it'll work.

Ok i'll give this one a go. Its been around a bit longer then what I usually deal with but lets see. I'd just like to put on record the website is currently ranking #9 for the term ectomorph workout as of today. If someone else could verify this for the record that'd be great.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Ok i'll give this one a go. Its been around a bit longer then what I usually deal with but lets see. I'd just like to put on record the website is currently ranking #9 for the term ectomorph workout as of today. If someone else could verify this for the record that'd be great.

That is correct.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Ok i'll give this one a go. Its been around a bit longer then what I usually deal with but lets see. I'd just like to put on record the website is currently ranking #9 for the term ectomorph workout as of today. If someone else could verify this for the record that'd be great.

Did you try to sink it and if so when?

It hasn't really moved. It jumped up to 8 and then back down to 10. We'll see if it continues to drop. 1-2 days is pretty quick to sink a site, but I'm still interested if it works at all.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

the website is currently ranking #9 for the term ectomorph workout as of today. If someone else could verify this for the record that'd be great.

Confirmed too. Get blasting dp40oz! :-)

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Spartacus 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Confirmed too. Get blasting dp40oz! :-)

Interesting to see if this is going to do something.
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Cement Calculator dot org moves into the lead.

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TryBPO 13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Cement Calculator dot org moves into the lead.

Nice...we're "winning"! Where's my gold star? :-P

Interesting test, no matter the end result.
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- Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Well if it stays like this then we would have already learned something valuable. So far there has been no serp movement (not up and not down) and if there is none in the future of this test then Google just completely ignores sitewide links.
  
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retsek

13 years ago

did you guys miss the part where he says it's just 7 sites with 6k indexed pages NOT 6k backlinks. What the hell kinda experiment is this? 7 domains? really?

Somebody please do some real backlink blasts (articles, profiles, comments or otherwise) and lets get this experiment going.

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ilee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

did you guys miss the part where he says it's just 7 sites with 6k indexed pages NOT 6k backlinks. What the hell kinda experiment is this? 7 domains? really?

Somebody please do some real backlink blasts (articles, profiles, comments or otherwise) and lets get this experiment going.

if the links are site wide then theres a link for every indexed page? which equals 6000 backlinks right? How many backlinks do you think it has?

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by retsek

did you guys miss the part where he says it's just 7 sites with 6k indexed pages NOT 6k backlinks. What the hell kinda experiment is this? 7 domains? really?

Somebody please do some real backlink blasts (articles, profiles, comments or otherwise) and lets get this experiment going.

if the links are site wide then theres a link for every indexed page? which equals 6000 backlinks right? How many backlinks do you think it has?

Correct. I repeated many times throughout the whole thread that it wasn't blast links.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

Somebody please do some real backlink blasts (articles, profiles, comments or otherwise) and lets get this experiment going.

Ease up retsek, theres nothing to say we can't do that after. OP has the right to test his premise then others can run theirs (provided the domains are still made available to run them)
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michael scott

13 years ago

Google definitely does not ignore sitewide links and I'm sure you know that out of all people

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by michael scott

Google definitely does not ignore sitewide links and I'm sure you know that out of all people

I know that for some sites. I can't say it works for all sites at all levels of authority. I have never done a test of it. I see plenty sites ranking with sitewide links but I can't tell you google counts all of them.

You missed the "if" in my statement. I am not claiming anything at this point. but no I wouldn't be totally blown away if site wide links on a weak site had little to no effect.

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michael scott

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I know that for some sites. I can't say it works for all sites at all levels of authority. I have never done a test of it. I see plenty sites ranking with sitewide links but I can't tell you google counts all of them.

You missed the "if" in my statement. I am not claiming anything at this point. but no I wouldn't be totally blown away if site wide links on a weak site had little to no effect.

I'd say the only way a sitewide link can be completely ignored is if the site is blacklisted by google for selling links. This can be the case if the site uses a script to auto-add links from text brokers. OBL's are also another factor. Sitewide links do work, even spammy ones as long as the link velocity is moderate. Need proof? See who's sitting #1 for "dumb and dumber tuxedo". The site was supposedly positioned in less than a month

If I had a sniper site like the ones above that targeted a low competition keyword, link blasts and low quality sitewides would definitely be the prime link building strategy. But with a competitive niche like car insurance? Better go with high PR sitewide/contextual.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by michael scott

Need proof? See who's sitting #1 for "dumb and dumber tuxedo". The site was supposedly positioned in less than a month

I don't deny it like I said but listing that as an answer to what i said about weak sites really would not prove the point. Thats a very weak serp.

But with a competitive niche like car insurance? Better go with high PR sitewide/contextual.

Nope. better to go with a strong portfolio of various sites. It is rare that you see a high authority site give out sitewide links. Blogrolls and footer links are two of the most popular ways of getting sitewide. Do you have any idea of the great sites you can get links from that will never give you those? In many niches - not all - that would be a dead give away of a bought link and you would be setting yourself up for a manual review.
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michael scott

13 years ago

Another metric that's very much underrated is the SEOmoz's page authority/domain authority/moztrust tool. A PR 5 link with PA 50+ is btter than a PR 7 with a PA 20. If you are wondering why that PR 7 sitewide link you bought isn't doing you any good, then maybe it's the trust/authority factor.

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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Lol, sorry Neil, this test wont do anything.
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- Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TheFBGuy
  
  Lol, sorry Neil, this test wont do anything.
  
  Get cocky now but DP is still waiting with his blast
  
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  TheFBGuy 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  Get cocky now but DP is still waiting with his blast
  
  Moved up 1 spot. , but yes if Google ignores Neil's links, looking forward to DP's blast.
  
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  Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TheFBGuy
  
  Moved up 1 spot. , but yes if Google ignores Neil's links, looking forward to DP's blast.
  
  Sorry FB but I don't think Google has even taken these links into account yet. Movement of a spot happens all the time without doing anything
  
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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Let's just wait and see. The clock is ticking!

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RaySaj

13 years ago

very interesting conversation but this will differ from what i have experimented..........the theory that backlinks harm your site cannot be true overall: reason for this is that a competitor can do this and harm your rankings? Google aint going to allow their algorithm to be manipulated .............

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Can we please put this test to rest? Most of us knew it was silly from day one. Now the evidence is coming in and we still think it is silly.

How long do we wait?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Can we please put this test to rest? Most of us knew it was silly from day one. Now the evidence is coming in and we still think it is silly.

How long do we wait?

LOL. You really don't do much SEO do you? 4 day SEO test and call it quits ? get outta here

.

what are you waiting for anyway? Op stated straight up he's running it for a few weeks and you were willing to keep us waiting even longer when it was to put your ranking services on display.:rolleyes:

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

LOL. You really don't do much SEO do you? 4 day SEO test and call it quits ? get outta here

.

what are you waiting for anyway? Op stated straight up he's running it for a few weeks and you were willing to keep us waiting even longer when it was to put your ranking services on display.:rolleyes:

It was interesting at first. But you know how this test is ultimately going to turn out just like I do. But I hear you. I was being impatient. My apologies to OP.

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Links can absolutely adversely effect rankings if done correctly. Negative seo is a pretty common tactic when going for big keywords.

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oldvintageguy

13 years ago

I'd be interested in seeing if anyone wants to experiment on my 10+ year old website that has never had SEO done to it (has no inbounds from SEO work), has zero PR (because no links to it), but in active index -- ranks just fine (position 2 or position 3) for on-page text (e.g. 2 or 3 word search terms)?

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by oldvintageguy

I'd be interested in seeing if anyone wants to experiment on my 10+ year old website that has never had SEO done to it

Can't speak for everyone but I have no interest in adding an even weaker term and site to this mix.

It was interesting at first. But you know how this test is ultimately going to turn out just like I do

Thats why we do tests my man. I admit I am dubious about the OP's site wide links but I don't know. I think DP might be able to tank a site or two. I'm not sure this one is over with though. Biggest position shift I have seen either way is Energy Booster Drinks. If the OP is wrong with these terms there may be more terms rising.
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- neil_patmore 13 years ago
  
  Patience people! It took around 3 weeks for my sites to tank. All the links haven't even been indexed yet. Only 1/4 are even showing up in Majestic.
  
  When you tank a site properly you have to have a little bit of patience!
  
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JamesGw

13 years ago

Lol @ wanting to call it quits. Let the OP do his thing. If the sites don't tank within a few weeks, then we can try something else.

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dp40oz

13 years ago

Hey guys sorry for the delay on my end. I was away for the holiday weekend. I started blasting on Saturday but only had a chance to do a little bit. I'll pick it up again tonight. So far ectomorph workout has dropped 1 place, but I won't attribute that to my 1 blast. I'll keep you guys updated.

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GeorgR.

13 years ago

I am 99% positive that such penalties DO HAPPEN since i saw them myself, from 500s/visitors day to <10 WITHIN A DAY. By coincidence right after a xrumer blast, on an ESTABLISHED SITE which was ranking top for 2+ years.

Since April this year this site is PENALIZED.

I also have another site, also a site which is HIGHLY established, top rankings #2 in Google, 3+ years old which had the same penalty happen...about 6 months a SIGNIFICANT SUDDEN drop in traffic. After 6 months again a significant, sharp rise from one day to the other.

This is very obviously a penalty and NOT something natural.

Year old sites do not drop from 500--> 0 without a reason. Please use common sense. Natural ranking can not explain the sudden drops/raises happening within one SINGLE day.

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Talen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

I am 99% positive that such penalties DO HAPPEN since i saw them myself, from 500s/visitors day to <10 WITHIN A DAY. By coincidence right after a xrumer blast, on an ESTABLISHED SITE which was ranking top for 2+ years.

Since April this year this site is PENALIZED.

I also have another site, also a site which is HIGHLY established, top rankings #2 in Google, 3+ years old which had the same penalty happen...about 6 months a SIGNIFICANT SUDDEN drop in traffic. After 6 months again a significant, sharp rise from one day to the other.

This is very obviously a penalty and NOT something natural.

Year old sites do not drop from 500--> 0 without a reason. Please use common sense. Natural ranking can not explain the sudden drops/raises happening within one SINGLE day.

Even if such a penalty existed even Google isn't that fast that they would penalize your site within one day. The backlinks weren't even indexed in that short period of time.

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Dellco

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

Even if such a penalty existed even Google isn't that fast that they would penalize your site within one day. The backlinks weren't even indexed in that short period of time.

Google is well and able to penalize sites within one day. They are also able to restore a site by the next day too (if it doesn't really deserve a penalty).

How do I know? Because it's happened to me. It may not be a human in Google doing this, but the algorithim can indeed carry out such things. I've witnessed such strange things in Google myself.

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admobi

13 years ago

Blasting a lot of links at a new site or a site which isn't well established can trigger a penalty. So your actions CAN affect another website's ranking.

However blasting links at a major website such as CNN, BBC etc.. will have no effect whatsoever on that site's rankings.

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giseo

13 years ago

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ShanghaiSEOExpert 13 years ago

So what was the final conclusion on this?
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GeorgR.

13 years ago

The "final conclusion" is not to listen to people who CLAIM there is no penalty when there is convincing evidence there is.

Also...as a conclusion always, always consider link velocity in your link building. USE COMMON SENSE.

A brand new site simply doesn't get 100s of high PR links from one day to the other, or gets 2 links a week and then all of a sudden 1000s blasting within 3 days. ---> COMMON SENSE

Do you not think that Google evaluates the speed links are appearing? They sure do.

You would lack any common sense if you think buying a blast of several thousand links would only have benefits - this is kindergarten-level "i have no clue" SEO..SEO is much more than purchasing blasts or spamming TONS of low quality links within a short time.

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Talen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

The "final conclusion" is not to listen to people who CLAIM there is no penalty when there is convincing evidence there is.

and where is that convincing evidence?

Also...as a conclusion always, always consider link velocity in your link building. USE COMMON SENSE.

A brand new site simply doesn't get 100s of high PR links from one day to the other, or gets 2 links a week and then all of a sudden 1000s blasting within 3 days. ---> COMMON SENSE

Brand new sites get hit with massive links all the time...I had a new site that I ran a news story about an upcoming event and somehow I got picked up by major sites related to the event and had over 12000 visitors and 2000 backlinks within 2 days...Goggle didn't penalize the sit in any way.

Do you not think that Google evaluates the speed links are appearing? They sure do.

They do? Your connections at Google confirmed this? There are only millions upon millions of websites and billions upon billions of links created every day and you think they are looking at the speed of which my little site is gaining links?

You would lack any common sense if you think buying a blast of several thousand links would only have benefits - this is kindergarten-level "i have no clue" SEO..SEO is much more than purchasing blasts or spamming TONS of low quality links within a short time.

This thread was never about buying or blasting 1000's of links it also had nothing to do with spamming low quality links.

The OP added site wide links to an established large site.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Hey all,

So I came across some interesting videos that I think are applicable to this test. They're both less than 2 minutes long so I encourage you to watch. Both are Matt Cutts from Google discussing links to your site:

Can you benefit from content scraped from your...

In this video, Matt addresses the question as to people scraping your content and republishing on their site. He specifically mentions that if they're successful and you've built in internal links...it won't hurt you and in some cases, may help you. He talks about how those scraper sites are usually have poor-content, bad user experience, etc...definitely what most of us here would consider "bad links" right?

GoogleWebmasterHelp's Channel - YouTube
In this video, Matt talks about why there's not a way to report "spammy" links that are coming into your site. He mentions that they've always said there's no way a competitor can harm your site in that way. They've since changed their wording on that, but not because building spammy links to a competitor will knock them off their positioning on Google, but for other reasons.

I know....some people are going to say something like, "Would you expect Matt to give away Google's secret sauce?" or something to that effect, but if you watch or read much of what he puts out (along with others) it tends to make sense, is reasonable, and is helpful for webmasters. Ultimately, their goal is to work WITH us to provide a better user experience for their searchers, right?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

GoogleWebmasterHelp's Channel - YouTube
In this video, Matt talks about why there's not a way to report "spammy" links that are coming into your site. He mentions that they've always said there's no way a competitor can harm your site in that way. They've since changed their wording on that, but not because building spammy links to a competitor will knock them off their positioning on Google, but for other reasons.

TryBPO you TOTALLY ignored what the video above says. If I were going just off this video then we could close this test because matt says this

"We try to put in code so that is not easy to do"

Confirming that IT CAN IN FACT HAPPEN. In fact if you really listen to that video it says point blank that they do write code in regard to spammy links but that they try to do it in such a way that it would make it difficult (not impossible ) for a competitor to manipulate.

here watch it again and listen to everything being said

Can I flag spammy links to my site that I didn't create? - YouTube

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Hey Mike,

I did listen to it pretty closely. The analogy he used about how a competitor could hurt another was outside of search. Because some of those things are outside their control (competitor faxing another to snatch their domain) they switched the language. Aside from that analogy, direct quotes:

"We try very hard to make sure one competitor can't hurt another competitor"
"We try to put in code to make sure that that is not easy to do...it's not the case that someone can easily hurt someone else."

They don't offer it (being able to report spammy links to your site) because they feel it is unnecessary. If they thought it was necessary, I'm sure they WOULD add that as a feature. Now it COULD be that they don't need to offer that as a feature because so few competitors are really blasting their competitors with spammy links and that it's HEAVILY the case where sites are having those links blasted to their sites on purpose...that is an option. (For example, 98%+ of sites that are blasted with spammy links are their own doing...so they don't worry about the 2% and punish them all) I don't think that's the case though...it's definitely not what I heard in the video.

Any thoughts on the second video, Mike?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Any thoughts on the second video, Mike?

Not really. There the discussion is about scraped content where in your content you have a link back to yourself or someone else. I really doubt that google has any algo that considers in content links as spammy. Thats the very kind of link they like the most. Spammy would be blogrolls, footer links, forum profiles, even some blog comments but not in content links. So I don't really think scraped in content links is even applicable to the discussion.

Ayway when Google tells me they TRY to do something and especially TRY to make something DIFFICULT its a dead give away to me that they do think its possible and they ought to know.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Not really. There the discussion is about scraped content where in your content you have a link back to yourself or someone else. I really doubt that google has any algo that considers in content links as spammy. Thats the very kind of link they like the most. Spammy would be blogrolls, footer links, forum profiles, even some blog comments but not in content links. So I don't really think scraped in content links is even applicable to the discussion.

Ayway when Google tells me they TRY to do something and especially TRY to make something DIFFICULT its a dead give away to me that they do think its possible and they ought to know.

I really don't see why you and GeorgR are so dead-set on this. You may be right...I'm definitely not saying that I know for sure. I think it's unlikely, but that's as far as I'll go.

Why the animosity and spite/scorn in the comments? (Not necessarily from you, but definitely throughout the thread) Why are people picking a side and feeling the need so badly to be right about it?

It seems to me that you're trying to read into the comments from Matt and not taking it at face value. It definitely could be that he's playing a game with all of us...teasing us or giving us misdirection...but that turns it into a bit of a conspiracy, right? I don't know...that just doesn't seem likely to me.

Either way, we'll see how this test turns out. To be honest, I don't think this test will definitively prove it either way, but I would say that if the rankings tank for several of the sites it would give me plenty to think about, and I'd swing to leaning to your side, i think.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

I really don't see why you and GeorgR are so dead-set on this. You may be right...I'm definitely not saying that I know for sure. I think it's unlikely, but that's as far as I'll go.

Why the animosity and spite/scorn in the comments? (Not necessarily from you, but definitely throughout the thread) Why are people picking a side and feeling the need so badly to be right about it?

What in the world are you talking about? and why put that in a response to me? I'm putting forth my reasons and you are putting forward yours. I've shown animosity to having the thread hijacked but its on course now. Anyway plenty of people in this thread have said its impossible to hurt a site, some have even been scornful of anyone who thinks otherwise and you don't claim they have a need to be right about it so what if one or two people say hold up and take the other position that it definitely is possible? why pick out me and George?

It seems to me that you're trying to read into the comments

Whats reading in? matt said that they TRY and make it difficult. Its right there on the surface that he is saying its possible. Sorry but is seems to me you feel the need badly to take the video in your own way and not how it just clearly reads.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

I just picked out you and George because you happen to be leaning the opposite way...but I agree with you, there's ridiculous-ness on both sides of this discussion, for sure. I hate when EITHER side acts like they know for sure or act like they have direct access to review Google's algorithms.

He's not saying they TRY and fail....or that they're TRYING and it's very difficult. The general answer to the question that Matt was answering is that they likely won't put a "report spammy links" function in place in the future as it's largely unnecessary. Did you think the "TRY" mentioned was similar to trying and failing? Finding it difficult?

I just saw those videos the other night and thought they were somewhat interesting and applicable to the discussion and a value-add for anyone reading. Let's say that I agree that one of the videos is partially vague...and that the other only partially applies. Can you point me to where a rep from Google is saying or has admitted (at least somewhat more directly) the opposite? I know it would be harder to find something supportive of your side as it's probably less likely Google would discuss it if it were true (and you could bomb competitors)...but don't you think if it WERE true they would put quite a bit of effort into making sure that doesn't happen? That really couldn't be in their interest...

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markowe

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

The general answer to the question that Matt was answering is that they likely won't put a "report spammy links" function in place in the future as it's largely unnecessary.

I think the main reason is not that it's unnecessary, it's that they don't want to spend all their time arbitrating between warring webmasters and ruling on who spammed who..! I mean, can you imagine?! They "try" because the only way they can handle this is algorithmically (i.e. not manually or through some impossible-to-adjudicate reporting process) - how successful that "try" is is what interests us...

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Now you guys are just being silly, I mean really, Matt Cutts videos in an seo test, LMAO!

That's like asking Obama who I should vote for. :p

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Now you guys are just being silly, I mean really, Matt Cutts videos in an seo test, LMAO!

That's like asking Obama who I should vote for. :p

LOL. Well we are just passing the time and he does make some things slip from time to time.
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- TheFBGuy 13 years ago
  
  I hope that some of you are making good use of some of the backlinks that the sites exposed for this test/case study have, lol.
  
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JamesGw

13 years ago

No movement in Ectomorph and still none in MMA.

The links are not appearing to count for much or just haven't been indexed. Haven't seen a big jump in link counts in WMT yet.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

So far all sites below are all on the first page for their keywords.

Were ready when you guys are, or has it already started, lol?

hxxp://zygorlevelingguide.org/
keyword: Zygor Leveling Guide

hxxp://cementcalculator.org/
Keyword: Cement Calculator

hxxp://energyboosterdrinks.com/
Keyword: Energy Booster Drinks

hxxp://antiperspiration.com/
Keyword: Antiperspiration

hxxp://www.mmastrengthandconditioning.info/
Keyword: MMA Strength and Conditioning

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Over 6000 Side Wide Links by Neil_Patmore for each site listed below

Green: Moved Up - Gaining Strength...

Black: No Movement - Status Quo...

Red: Moved Down - Tanking...

Current Rankings

hxxp://zygorlevelingguide.org - Position: 4
keyword: Zygor Leveling Guide

hxxp://cementcalculator.org - Position: 4
Keyword: Cement Calculator

hxxp://energyboosterdrinks.com - Position: 4
Keyword: Energy Booster Drinks

hxxp://antiperspiration.com - Position: 1
Keyword: Antiperspiration

hxxp://www.mmastrengthandconditioning.info - Position: 5
Keyword: MMA Strength and Conditioning

hxxpp://ectomorphworkout.info - position: 5 (Blasts by DP)
Keyword: ectomorph workout

Rankings 1 weeks ago

hxxp://zygorlevelingguide.org - Position: 3
keyword: Zygor Leveling Guide

hxxp://cementcalculator.org - Position: 4
Keyword: Cement Calculator

hxxp://energyboosterdrinks.com - Position: 3
Keyword: Energy Booster Drinks

hxxp://antiperspiration.com - Position: 1
Keyword: Antiperspiration

hxxp://www.mmastrengthandconditioning.info - Position: 5
Keyword: MMA Strength and Conditioning

hxxpp://ectomorphworkout.info - position: 5 (Blasts by DP)
Keyword: ectomorph workout

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

ectomorphworkout.info with ectomorph workout is now at 11 but I don't know if DP continued his blast yet.
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- TheFBGuy 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  ectomorphworkout.info with ectomorph workout is now at 11 but I don't know if DP continued his blast yet.
  
  Added to the tracking list.
  
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- dp40oz 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  ectomorphworkout.info with ectomorph workout is now at 11 but I don't know if DP continued his blast yet.
  
  Yea I did one yesterday that has seemed to start shaking the site off its first page perch. To be honest ive never attempted this with a site this aged and with so many backlinks already in place so I am not sure the results will be as dramatic without a lot of work. I usually have only seen massive penalties to sites 6 months or less and this website is older and had a decent amount of links to it. Either way it seems the 2 blasts have been working so far. To be honest I have been crazy busy with working on my sites and haven't really had a ton of time to commit one of my computers Scrapebox resources to this considering I know penalties exist and I am only doing this for the sake of proving people wrong.
  
  Whats funny is not believing in penalties is like denying that global warming exits. I feel like its like "Really!!?? Ok you keep on believing that... Oh yes and the world isn't round either". Its just such a basic part of SEO. Also if there are no penalties then why in the webmaster FAQ does it refer to penalties (sites not ranking well) and uses link building as one of the factors. If I have to keep knocking ectomorphworkout.info down and down so these guys will learn, then I guess thats what I have to do.
  
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  TheFBGuy 13 years ago
  
  Update: ectomorphworkout.info is now back on page 1.
  
  hxxpp://ectomorphworkout.info - position: 10 (Blasts by DP)
  Keyword: ectomorph workout
  
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jimbobo2779

13 years ago

Google has updated their algorithm many times in the past months and lots of people have been seeing their sites going up and down in the rankings. Google has never admitted to any sort of penalty due to backlinks, nobody has ever proven a correlation between new backlinks and a penalty.

The penalty does not exist and you will see this in time. The thing is when you are not dealing with lots of websites (100s+) you tend to see a correlation everywhere, when you do deal with lots of sites and have lots of experience in these endeavours you will see that there is no penalty.

The only time I have seen a penalty is when a site has really crappy/duplicated content so maybe it is time to check out the website rather than blame a relatively small number of links. Google likes large websites with good fresh content, if you have this you will never get penalised unless you are very big and have a very public campaign of buying links and they have to set an example. JC Penny is a good example of a high profile case where google stepped in, no offence but I doubt you are that high profile.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbobo2779

nobody has ever proven a correlation between new backlinks and a penalty.

The penalty does not exist and you will see this in time..

Yawn. I think I am going to post these links every time someone puts up the same unresearched nonsense. Just a short while ago (in terms of the thread) I was accused of needing to be right and yet I sense that its the other side that needs to be right. Always these dogmatic statement. I'll explain later why that is but lets blow up this quote

No penalty for links? No one has shown a correlation?

Google Sending Notifications Of Unnatural Links Pointing To Your Site

"Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes"

Google did send out those notices

People did get them

Penalty due to apparent sabotage--Please help - Webmaster Central Help

and people HAVE lost rank

My Site was Manually Flagged By Spam Team (read the thread not just the title and OP)

So can we give the no evidence statement a rest?

READ ALL THE LINKS.

I've posted these before but no one wants to read them or they read one cherry picking and leaving out the others. they are PROOF POSITIVE that backlinks can hurt you but most people here want to play ostrich and there is a reason for that and here it is -

Over half the people on this forum would not have a clue on how to rank a site without using spamming software or utilizing services that utilize spamming blast software. If you took away xrummer, senukex and scrapebox or services that imitate or use them there would be a collective cry about "how can we rank out sites now?" (mind you after years of people PMing me about their sites and keywords I can tell you that about 70% of the people here are going after weak affiliate MFA stuff and yet they STILL are having problems ranking.)

So face it. the real reason people get so upset and dogmatic and insist that backlinks can't hurt you is not because theres no evidence that it can't. Its simply THEY DON'T WANT IT TO BE TRUE. IF it was true they would have to think twice about doing the only SEO they know how to do and for those offering WSOs they would have to deal with people asking them about legitimate potential risks.

and lets face it WSO and WSO sellers wag the dog on what is considered great SEO on this board or you wouldn't still have people using search count and saying there are 3.3 million people competing for the term "purple fleas". that was all made up by sellers - complete with screenshots -to pretend their seo system works.
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TryBPO

13 years ago

Ok, so we're 2 weeks in now and no significant movement either way. How long did the OP state it would take to see an effect? 2-3 weeks or something? I've been checking in but haven't really seen any movement at all.

At what point will we determine the test has been concluded...4 weeks? 6 weeks?

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

At what point will we determine the test has been concluded...4 weeks? 6 weeks?

He said three weeks but to be honest I think the only one that had a real chance was DP with his electromorph site and he's stated he hasn't had time to do the blast he wanted to do. OP may still be right in the final week but I don't see how sitewide links tank a site. Spammy links like the ones xrummer give yes but not sitewide links.

Authors of templates have sitewide links, wordpress installations sometimes have site wide links. copyright notices sometimes have site wide links and on and on with none of them tanking.

Bring on some real spammy links. Thats what everyone who has claimed being tanked on this forum has claimed they were doing when their sites tanked - not sitewide links.

but the Op deserves his full three weeks. No rush no fuss.
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Pakiisp

13 years ago

As far as the OP challenge, If a site is six months old or less & ranking #1 in the SERPs for their keyword, that tells me the keyword was easy to rank for to begin with. That also tells me that chances are very high they didn't have to do much work building the backlinks it took to rank #1 in the SERPs.

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JamesGw

13 years ago

It's somewhat interesting that we haven't seen any overall positive or negative movement as I can tell.

Edit: Interesting in that the links also don't seem to have had a positive impact.

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adlol 13 years ago

I had a site tank after sitting comfortable #1 ranking after shed loads of sh*tty profile links, bottom of the SERPs for nearly all searches. It happens, I have seen it. It is now back after around a 6month penalty.
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TryBPO

13 years ago

adlol,

We have anecdotal evidence of things too, but without verifying by isolating, it's really hard for sure to know the reason why a site works out and why it doesn't. The purpose of this test was to check with 5 different sites if one particular method would work in tanking the sites. After we think we've given that test enough time, we're discussing whether or not to test another tactic as well, I think....might as well see if it's possible with these since they're already public and out there, right?

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Lol, no negative or positive effect... interesting.

Googlebots: zehahahahaha

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

OK Mr Op. The three weeks are just about over. Google is more or less yawning at your site wide links. Now can we do the more traditional spam blast and see what gives?

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retsek

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

OK Mr Op. The three weeks are just about over. Google is more or less yawning at your site wide links. Now can we do the more traditional spam blast and see what gives?

yep those were a big waste of time. 6k sitewide links basically count as 1.

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michael scott

13 years ago

You guys are being too impatient with sitewide link effects. Since those links are usually found in the sidebar or footer, google doesn't give them full credit when they first crawl unlike contextual links found in the body. Plus, the bot usually doesn't crawl all the inner pages all at once unless u have some sick internal linking.

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mkl3377

13 years ago

I've been reading through 10 pages of posts( and if I've missed it I apologize ) but I've not seen any mention of the type of backlinks that already existed on the OP's original 2 sites that got tanked.

I personally have never been penalized by site wide links. Take blog comments for example. When you make blog comments on blogs with TopCommenters plugin you potentially can get hundreds sometimes thousands of site wide links.

Maybe ops sites was just taking their turn in the post Panda update. 3 weeks is a long time. Many things happen in the serps in 3 weeks.

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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Update: As we begin to reach the '3 week milestone', these are the current results in Google.com, almost no positive or negative effect, in fact, almost all these test sites seem stronger thus far: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ml#post4649207
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TryBPO

13 years ago

It looks like the sites are trending up now, actually. Wondering if I should have picked sites that are at the bottom of the first page...would have seen better movement BOTH ways, heh.

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

The sites are starting to move around. cementcalculator.org is now #4.

I do appreciate that time is ticking on though!
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- TheFBGuy 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by neil_patmore
  
  I do appreciate that time is ticking on though!
  
  Time is ticking indeed.
  
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  Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Time is done. Time to blast those suckers
  
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4morereferrals

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

It looks like the sites are trending up now, actually. Wondering if I should have picked sites that are at the bottom of the first page...would have seen better movement BOTH ways, heh.

TryBPO,

You may tell me to go get BENT - but do you know why a certain site about "wood chairs" is no longer on page one and is in never never land?

Did you build all those links to it? Xrumer spammy spam spam links?

I may have to for once agree with Mike Anthony on something ;-)

Ive had sites and seen and heard of sites get obliterated from the serps for direct Xrumer blasts. They typically have to be light in content, < 2 yrs old and not well anchored with quality links. Forum spam links appear to be the real culprit now - when in the past they were the darlings of the link spam world. Mass quantities of in content articles or blog posts are not sending sites into serp hell ... but xrumer forum profile spam can and will. Seen it lived it. Believe it.

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

TryBPO,

You may tell me to go get BENT - but do you know why a certain site about "wood chairs" is no longer on page one and is in never never land?

Did you build all those links to it? Xrumer spammy spam spam links?

I may have to for once agree with Mike Anthony on something ;-)

Ive had sites and seen and heard of sites get obliterated from the serps for direct Xrumer blasts. They typically have to be light in content, < 2 yrs old and not well anchored with quality links. Forum spam links appear to be the real culprit now - when in the past they were the darlings of the link spam world. Mass quantities of in content articles or blog posts are not sending sites into serp hell ... but xrumer forum profile spam can and will. Seen it lived it. Believe it.

Hey there!

Lol, no, definitely not telling you to get bent. :-) I think I know what you're referring to...we mentioned that specifically in our latest income report for September...what you're referring to was part of the problem. (If we're talking about the same thing...I think we are!)

We didn't build those links. Site Explorer showing 200+ links...most of our sites show anywhere from 5-50 links...those are from the new owner, not us. Still...the problem there was pre-spammy links and was our problem, not his. We're working on correcting and laid out our "strategy" on our site. We'll see!
- Justin

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

I may have to for once agree with Mike Anthony on something ;-)

Alright if you wanted to scare me you did the trick. I didn't believe in all this 2012 end of the world stuff but this changes everything. I'm buying a cement bunker in Colorado and stock up on supplies. Saw 5 wasn't as scary as that right there.

I've had sites and seen and heard of sites get obliterated from the serps for direct Xrumer blasts. They typically have to be light in content, < 2 yrs old and not well anchored with quality links. Forum spam links appear to be the real culprit now - when in the past they were the darlings of the link spam world. Mass quantities of in content articles or blog posts are not sending sites into serp hell ... but xrumer forum profile spam can and will. Seen it lived it. Believe it.

Yeah but no one has really even tried that here yet. In deference to the OP we haven't got there because he wanted to test if sitewide links would do the trick but even those who believe it don't think that causes sites to be penalized. Internet is full of sites with legitimate sitewide links

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4morereferrals

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Yeah but no one has really even tried that here yet. In deference to the OP we haven't got there because he wanted to test if sitewide links would do the trick but even those who believe it don't think that causes sites to be penalized. Internet is full of sites with legitimate sitewide links

Well I have - multiple times. I can assure you if you have a traditional 15 article MFA type adsense blog or blogs standing between you and top spots - if their link profile is moderate to weak < 1,000 backlinks in YSE < 20 PR3+ links in their profile .... a few intense days of unleashing XR on them will get them out of your way.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Well I have - multiple times. I can assure you if you have a traditional 15 article MFA type adsense blog or blogs standing between you and top spots

Don't doubt it . Why people think Google will give a rip about protecting their MFA is beyond me. Perhaps they think that Google sees them as some valued partner. Serious mistake there.
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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Neil, It's almost 4 weeks now if not already, would you like more time or should we conclude...?

Current rankings: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ml#post4649207

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Scott Burton

13 years ago

An interesting detail on this to consider. Your results may not be the same as mine...

The Filter Bubble

Google uses so many criteria to tell which links to present to you. It's kind of stupid level scary how what I see is not necessarily what the next person to type the same query will get.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Let me know when you guys want me to do 5k worth of article links to each site in the test.

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4morereferrals 13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Let me know when you guys want me to do 5k worth of article links to each site in the test.

That wont do it likely - but when your ready to drive 10,000 links a day via xrumer - let us know - that will do the trick. Anybody care to pitch in on a few Drip Feed Blast accounts for a few weeks on these URLs and lets see where she goes?
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- 4morereferrals 13 years ago
  
  Here's the comedy of the whole thing ...
  
  The killer huge a$$ authority sites - unique content guru authors and darlings of the Adsense realm ... they [ many ] too got Panda Punched - for doing NOTHING wrong.
  
  Crazy.
  
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stephenwaldo

13 years ago

Okay, here's my attempt at putting this to rest.

But first, let's not forget what we're arguing here.

We're not debating (or at least I'm not) whether or not you can 'flip a light switch' with your new Xrumer toy and start making your already ranking competitors drop like rain...That would be ridiculous.

We're arguing that there is a way to manipulate a websites backlink profile to make it appear that the webmaster was attempting to artificially manipulate their own rankings, and that Google gives penalties when they think they see webmasters engaging in questionable link-building behavior.

So, all that being said, here are the facts:

1. There are lots of factors that influence a site's rankings = True

So far so good?

2. Several of those factors are intended to evaluate the trust and relevance of a website = True

3. Google has said that it looks at a website's "Neighborhood" when establishing both Trust and Relevancy = True

4. Google DOES give sitewide penalties both manually and algorithmically = True (Commonly the -50 penalty)

5. Google warns against spammy links in their own Webmaster Guidelines = True (See below)

"...some webmasters engage in link exchange schemes and build partner pages exclusively for the sake of cross-linking, disregarding the quality of the links, the sources, and the long-term impact it will have on their sites. This is in violation of Google's Webmaster Guidelines and can negatively impact your site's ranking in search results."

Notice they don't say it WILL influence your rankings, just that it CAN...That's what why it's why it's called an algorithm and not a rule.

5. There have been multiple cases where folks who received a -50 penalty (not G dance) have been told, and have also observed through tools, that the probable cause of their penalty was an unnatural amount of obviously non-human-generated links = True Remember JCPenny's penalty due to shady linkbuilding earlier this year?

6. Google has started sending form letters to webmasters who they believe to be manipulating their backlink profiles = True

Dear site owner or webmaster of [domain],

We've detected that some of your site's pages may be using techniques that are outside Google's Webmaster Guidelines.

Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.

We encourage you to make changes to your site so that it meets our quality guidelines. Once you've made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google's search results.

[Pay Attention Here =>] If you find unnatural links to your site that you are unable to control or remove, please provide the details in your reconsideration request.

If you have any questions about how to resolve this issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.

Sincerely, Google Search Quality Team

There...Proof that Google DOES sometimes give penalties to innocent webmasters for building links they didn't build. They literally have specific instructions for this specific situation that we're sitting here, 10 pages in, STILL debating even exists!

Hopefully those facts should be enough to prove that your backlinks CAN play a role in how you rank (Duh) and that bad backlinks CAN induce an automatic or manual penalty (Don't know why this isn't Duh).

Also, please note that the test y'all are doing right now is totally pointless.

You're trying to manipulate EMDs with age, history, and pretty good content. There are so many other factors than bad links that affect a sites rankings and show Google which pages are most trusting and relevant, such as countless people from a WF thread monitoring a specific term and then clicking on a specific website, that this test cannot possibly yield conclusive results.

Waste of time.

Just like learning to rise in the SERPs takes time, effort and practice, so does learning to lower someone in the SERPs. And when you DO do it properly you're not going to see it in 2 weeks.

The reason you don't see/hear it very often because the only people who would do something like that are all the lazy BH (and WH) folks who are so convinced that links can't affect SERPs that instead of doing it they spend 10 pages arguing about it in a forum.

Course, here I am typing close to 1k words just to prove you wrong, so what does that make me?

And of course, not all BH folks are lazy, not at all, just that the hard working BH folks would rather spend time manipulating their own rankings than others'. It's much, much easier / faster.

I'm not saying that the OP is correct in everything he's saying...I would guess that the 2 - 3 week time frame is waaay too short, and the more authoritative a domain is the more difficult it is to drag down.

Furthermore, the domains your testing could be doing a lot of things right (such as EMD, age, lots of natural links already) and even if they weren't there's no guarantee that the folks doing the link building are doing it in a way that's effective enough to make a difference.

But really, after all that, what it comes down to is this:

If there is a way for YOU to get your own site penalized, there is also a way for your COMPETITORS to get your site penalized = Absolutely True

Just sayin' my 2 cents.

Wow this ramble got carried away. I guess that's what happens when you can type 100 words a minute and get off on making a point

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Believe it or not Steve that letter has been posted several times in this forum and I have even added links to people who state point blank they got them and for spammy links. One link went to backlinksforum where the whole thing is spelt out. Proof as you say has NEVER been the issue. But theres two reasons why despite all proof people here stick their head in the sand

A) they just don't want it to be true because it means there would be a reason to change or at least be cautious.

B) People don't want to think and change. It s been a saying around here for a long time that people pull out link parrots - "if bad links could hurt you then you could hurt your customers and Google wouldn't allow that because it would be stupid."

What has never been true is that Google cares about your site and being fair to it. they don't . They care about their search results looking good and they don't need the average IMers site to do that. If a site has some good links that are organic from sites that Google likes then that will protect them if they are blasted but if not Google doesn't care if either you or your competitor shows up in the search results where the sun don't shine. Them protecting ALL other sites has always been an urban myth.

Originally Posted by stephenwaldo

Dear site owner or webmaster of [domain],

We've detected that some of your site's pages may be using techniques that are outside Google's Webmaster Guidelines.

Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.

We encourage you to make changes to your site so that it meets our quality guidelines. Once you've made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google's search results.

[Pay Attention Here =>] If you find unnatural links to your site that you are unable to control or remove, please provide the details in your reconsideration request.

If you have any questions about how to resolve this issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.

Sincerely, Google Search Quality Team

There...Proof that Google DOES sometimes give penalties to innocent webmasters for building links they didn't build. They literally have specific instructions for this specific situation that we're sitting here, 10 pages in, STILL debating even exists!

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4morereferrals

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Believe it or not Steve that letter has been posted several times in this forum and I have even added links to people who state point blank they got them and for spammy links. One link went to backlinksforum where the whole thing is spelt out. Proof as you say has NEVER been the issue. But theres two reasons why despite all proof people here stick their head in the sand

A) they just don't want it to be true because it means there would be a reason to change or at least be cautious.

B) People don't want to think and change. It s been a saying around here for a long time that people pull out link parrots - "if bad links could hurt you then you could hurt your customers and Google wouldn't allow that because it would be stupid."

What has never been true is that Google cares about your site and being fair to it. they don't . They care about their search results looking good and they don't need the average IMers site to do that. If a site has some good links that are organic from sites that Google likes then that will protect them if they are blasted but if not Google doesn't care if either you or your competitor shows up in the search results where the sun don't shine. Them protecting ALL other sites has always been an urban myth.

Yup - if its one thing we can take away from these lessons - it's Google doesnt effing CARE [.] So screw them.

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stephenwaldo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Believe it or not Steve that letter has been posted several times in this forum and I have even added links to people who state point blank they got them and for spammy links. One link went to backlinksforum where the whole thing is spelt out. Proof as you say has NEVER been the issue. But theres two reasons why despite all proof people here stick their head in the sand

A) they just don't want it to be true because it means there would be a reason to change or at least be cautious.

B) People don't want to think and change. It s been a saying around here for a long time that people pull out link parrots - "if bad links could hurt you then you could hurt your customers and Google wouldn't allow that because it would be stupid."

What has never been true is that Google cares about your site and being fair to it. they don't . They care about their search results looking good and they don't need the average IMers site to do that. If a site has some good links that are organic from sites that Google likes then that will protect them if they are blasted but if not Google doesn't care if either you or your competitor shows up in the search results where the sun don't shine. Them protecting ALL other sites has always been an urban myth.

I just don't understand where folks got this idea of Google being search engine utopia...It's not.

They run a business, often times a pretty shady one, for the purpose of making money and dominating their given market-space. They are NOT perfect. If they were we wouldn't need links and we would never be having this debate to begin with.

Furthermore, if you're not taking anything Matty Cuts says with a big ol' honkin' grain of salt then you need your head checked. Think about this for a second...

Head of web spam team & also in charge of communicating with the 'SEO community'...

Just think about that for one tiny second and you'll realize exactly where you fall in the eyes of big G, and where you should operate from as an SEO.

And with good reason! Our purpose as SEOs is to manipulate results. So to say that you can manipulate results one way and not the other is just...I don't know. Just plain and simple denial I guess.

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kindsvater

13 years ago

If keyword rich backlinks are important to telling Google what topic your site is about so you rank for certain searches, then it seems possible damaging keyword rich backlinks could hurt that ranking.

Example 1: A website has 10 law related keyword rich backlinks. Must be a legal site worthy of a good ranking.

Example 2: A website has 10 law related keyword rich backlinks, plus 10,000 Pokemon worded backlinks. Could the site suffer in the rankings for legal searches because the backlinking profile now deals with Pokemon instead of the law?

.

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4morereferrals

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

If keyword rich backlinks are important to telling Google what topic your site is about so you rank for certain searches, then it seems possible damaging keyword rich backlinks could hurt that ranking.

Example 1: A website has 10 law related keyword rich backlinks. Must be a legal site worthy of a good ranking.

Example 2: A website has 10 law related keyword rich backlinks, plus 10,000 Pokemon worded backlinks. Could the site suffer in the rankings for legal searches because the backlinking profile now deals with Pokemon instead of the law?

.

I say yes - because now the algo thinks the site is predominately about Pokemon. That said, it would be easy for the site owner to explain to google that they were maliciously link bombed by a competitor of their site was hit with un related anchor text links like pharma and porn and other naughties.

So if the goal is to blow out a competitor - over use of keyword anchor text they do want to rank for is most logical - and harder for targeted site owner to refute knowledge. So I hear.

Ohhhh man kindsvater - B-l@ck H@t SEO Tort Law can be a hot new specialty! :-)

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happyallday

13 years ago

today I discovered one of my site got -50 penalty.

This site was 5th on it's keyword ( domain name is the exact keyword but ends with .net). yahoo site explorer was showing around 5 back links.

I bought this domain from godaddy auction, then add privacy right on, replace all the content, and use ALN network to add some links for about 2 weeks ( I did no more than 3 links a day), so far yahoo site explorer is showing 35 backlinks

the site went up to 2nd on main keyword, also up on some other keywords, then today it's dropped to 5-6 page. traffic dropped to 10% of previous days.

So this to me proves quick links from blog network do hurt a website ( depends on the history of the site or market obviously)

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Didn't think anything would happen...

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Didn't think anything would happen...

Nothing odd there Yuke. I think only the OP believed site wide links would tank a site.
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Ash R

13 years ago

I'm glad to see this thread of common sense here.

I am tired of hearing the parroted "wisdom" of "all backlinks are good, nobody can hurt competitors with backlinks".

At the end of the day, you need to think about defense as well. An aged domain and lots of useful content can go a long way

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InternetMarketingIQ

13 years ago

This original poster clearly does not understand how Page Rank and Google work. If you could damage another site with links... clearly the big boys with deep pockets would have blown their competition out of the water.

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InternetMarketingIQ

13 years ago

Google is flawed however. They SCRAPE other peoples content then profit from the scrape then pretend like they are the God's of all that is Search. They put their own properties in Organic Search ahead of the competition then pretend like they are for the Greater Good.

Hey any corporation that is pulling 28 Billion has their own Agenda and Interests.

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Current Rankings: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ml#post4649207

Okay, ironically Neil_Patmore has gone inactive, what say you boys and girls... should we proceed to phase 2? 1 month has passed and the 6000 side wide links Neil created were ineffective as most of us believed from the very beginning. I think we can all agree now and conclude that side wide links have NO definite impact on a competitor's site.

As a participant, I would like for us to move forward, those who offered sites for this test, please confirm as well so we can proceed with this. I think many people are still curious to know if a competitor can tank a particular website.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

that side wide links have NO definite impact on a competitor's site.

As a participant, I would like for us to move forward, those who offered sites for this test, please confirm as well so we can proceed with this. I think many people are still curious to know if a competitor can tank a particular website.

Agreed so what do you suggest.? We can go the xrummer forum profile route or some might want a blog comment blast

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Agreed so what do you suggest.? We can go the xrummer forum profile route or some might want a blog comment blast

At this point any type of blast is welcome, so If someone would like to step forward and do a blast, please do so or we can take mattlaclear's offer to do 5k article links I believe it was.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

At this point any type of blast is welcome, so If someone would like to step forward and do a blast, please do so or we can take mattlaclear's offer to do 5k article links I believe it was.

Why in the world would we do that? Who in this entire thread thinks that article directory submissions tanks a site? People do AMR runs all the time.

Don't and never owned xrummer or Senuke or I would do it. Must be somebody in this thread that does.

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Why in the world would we do that? Who in this entire thread thinks that article directory submissions tanks a site? People do AMR runs all the time.

Don't and never owned xrummer or Senuke or I would do it. Must be somebody in this thread that does.

Lol, maybe laclear will submit them in a way that Google doesn't like?

Laclear is the only one who stepped forward, so we cannot ignore that option unless someone else steps forward. I don't own Xrumer or SENukeX either.

Friedman: Yes I agree.

Can anyone help us out? I am sure many of you own ScrapeBox, Xrumer, SENuke, and other tools similar. If we had conducted this case study at BHW, things would have moved along faster...

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Lol, maybe laclear will submit them in a way that Google doesn't like?

Laclear is the only one who stepped forward, so we cannot ignore that option unless someone else steps forward.

We most surely can and should ignore it. It was never a genuine offer. Just another attempt to hijack the thread (second or third one ). No provider is going to offer his promotion service as a means of tanking sites. Don't be crazy man. Why should we waste the time running another go nowhere test of something we ALL know does not tank sites? If it did then AMR would be out of business.

Whats next? Okay I will step forward and offer some High PR contextual inks to tank these sites.....ROFL

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4morereferrals

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

We most surely can and should ignore it. It was never a genuine offer. Just another attempt to hijack the thread (second or third one ). No provider is going to offer his promotion service as a means of tanking sites. Don't be crazy man. Why should we waste the time running another go nowhere test of something we ALL know does not tank sites? If it did then AMR would be out of business.

Whats next? Okay I will step forward and offer some High PR contextual inks to tank these sites.....ROFL

4 Drip Feed Blasts accounts set on "KILL" for 60 days should just about do the trick ... $99 x 4 [ accounts ] x 2 [ 60 days ]

Im not eager to piss my $$$ down the drain to learn something I already know to be true - but if others want to chip in as a group

Or we could get a couple of "Dripable" accounts too - 2 dripables and 2 drip feed blasts and add in blog commenting just for grins and giggles and really seal the deal.

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MikeFriedman 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Laclear is the only one who stepped forward, so we cannot ignore that option unless someone else steps forward. I don't own Xrumer or SENukeX either.

Like I said, we need links that will actually get found in order to test something like this. He has claimed his are super secret special ones that do not show up in rank checkers, yet still somehow boost sites. :confused:

I have Scrapebox, but I do not have an auto approve list of the size needed to blast a ton of links at these sites. I also am not real keen on being the one who spams up thousands of other people's websites.
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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

At this point any type of blast is welcome, so If someone would like to step forward and do a blast, please do so or we can take mattlaclear's offer to do 5k article links I believe it was.

We need links that might actually get found though.

Xrumer or even Scrapebox if someone has an enormous autoapprove list that isn't already spammed to death is the way to go.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

We need links that might actually get found though.

Zing!!! lol.
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MikesWebShow

13 years ago

Frankly, when I discovered that companies (and individuals) offshore were being paid to click on ads to drive competition out of the market I stop using Adwords.

My biggest problem is that you can't account for the costs based on the clicks.

I have found a number of white and grey hat techniques for driving traffic and I am very happy with the results.

I think that many of the people using PPC these days are newbies (who don't know better) or super gurus who can spend $10 to $20 thousand dollars a day to earn a couple of thousand dollars.

Too expensive for me!

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4morereferrals

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikesWebShow

Frankly, when I discovered that companies (and individuals) offshore were being paid to click on ads to drive competition out of the market I stop using Adwords.

My biggest problem is that you can't account for the costs based on the clicks.

Yesssss.... Isnt it simply amazing that google can detect fraudulant clicks on the Adsense [ content ] network but cant for SERPs based adwords?

... interesting indeed

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KevinRichardsonMD

13 years ago

This is frankly a moot point--it has been documented time and time again that this is not the way it works.

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Daedalus

13 years ago

Is it a new site? Definitely yes.

Is it an old one? Depends on what kind of arsenal you have at your disposal. It is doable, just quite difficult.

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MikeFriedman 13 years ago

Somebody blast these sites. Do it on a big scale. Something like 5000-10,000 links a day for 4-5 days.
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Technology

Banned 13 years ago

Ya no this has been documented to be a complete myth in the long haul.

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nicnac03

13 years ago

Watch out! Mine did the same thing for a few months and then it simply vanished and hasn't returned yet despite more backlinks and content being added. 3 months anf counting. Still in the index though. /shrug

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TryBPO

13 years ago

Someone can test on the sites I put up, if they like...just please post here before you do it letting us know exactly where the links are from, what you're doing, etc.

Again, I don't think it will do much...but I'm willing to see what happens if you want to do it.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I've been really busy with a mobile app project which hasn't left much time for me to hang around on the Warrior forum so apologies for not posting for some time.

Well, what a disappointment! I did think the site wides tanked the sites but it looks like I was wrong. Not just because the participating sites didn't tank, but I know I was wrong because 2 other sites of mine that didn't have the sitewides also tanked after the last Panda update on 13 october. I'm now focusing on the why but it most ceratinly wasn't the site wides so I'm sorry guys but I was wrong.

I WAS WRONG! There said it, hope you're happy :-)

That doesn't go to say I don't think backlinks can harm a site, I know they can, I still haven't changed my opinion on that one.

I'm willing to send a 50k Scrapebox AA list at the sites if the site owners agree. The list is getting on a bit now but still gets quite a number of links indexed. Actually still works pretty good. Let me know.

Just a quickie update on one of the sites before I jump over to the panda thread. I pulled both sites down and put up default wordpress blogs to use with Authority link network and guess what? Both sites ranking top 3 for their main keywords, with ****e rehashed ALN articles on them.

Google praises quality content my arse. What a joke. Right, where's that panda thread ....

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BarryOnline

13 years ago

Google penalties, both manual and algorithmically very much exist.

I am seeing the above mentioned email from Google search quality team a lot lately.

Dear Site Owner or Webmaster of yoursite.com,

We've detected that some of your site's pages may be using techniques that are outside Google's Webmaster Guidelines.

Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.

Penalties from Google was a myth years ago but it's now a common reality.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

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cssitkt 13 years ago

Originally Posted by BarryOnline

Penalties from Google was a myth years ago but it's now a common reality.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Totally agree.

People are quick to ignore this truth.

Google Webmaster Tools notice of unnatural links detected...submit your site for reconsideration

this message is not 'google dance, 'natural fluctuation', 'random' 'been going on for years'
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- cssitkt 13 years ago
  
  I can blast 5000 auto approve comments, profiles, private blog posts a day.
  
  I'm happy to contribute in taking down a site - just let me know.
  
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sunray

13 years ago

With a domain only six months old Google may do exactly as they please--take it out and put it back whenever they wish. No searcher will notice the absence of such websites.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Neil: Just curious now that it has been over six months if your sites ever came backs, and if they did, how long did it take / what did you do?

No the sites never came back. The problem was not with the site wide links after all which I stated in an earlier post. The problem was with links created using AMR and ALN. After several reconsideration requests Google sent me an email explaining exactly what was wrong and pointing to several examples, some AMR links and some ALN links.

They told me I had to make a 'substantial effort' to clean up the links before they would lift the penalty. It was quicker and easier to just start again! The domains kept their PR so I added them to ALN and free blog links in exchange for more backlinks. :-)

I consider myself very experienced when it comes to Google penalties, I've certainly had my fair share of them, in response to both on page and off page factors. I like to test and push the boundaries both on and off page and I believe I've now got it down to a fine art !!!

There's an awful lot of bad advice and plain BS on this and other Forums, and anyone who tells you that you can't get a penalty from backlinking is talking complete codswollop.

I no longer use any automated software to link to my money site. Instead I use various types of buffer sites. I use more automated software than I've ever used in the past including the recently released Extreme Wiki Poster which is the real deal and I love it, but I never link direct to my money site. I am however seeing some pretty spectacular results.

What you have to watch out for is an UNATURAL LINK PROFILE. This is what Google told me I had. Nothing to do with the quantity of links, strength of links or type of links. But it was because of UNATURAL looking links. If you've got 6k links all coming from one source only that's pretty unatural looking right?

Link diversity and no automation direct to the money site. This is what's working for me now.

Also, were your sites tanked for a single keyword or did you lose rank for all keywords? I noticed in the thread your theory was that google punishes individual pages for individual keywords, but it almost sounds as if your sites tanked for everything

All keywords. They were sitewide penalties.

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abock

13 years ago

You can take down a website by backlinking, period.

Nevertheless, you wouldn't want to do it to your competitor's websites as you might be better to just do proper backlinking to your own site.

my 2 cents

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4morereferrals

13 years ago

After several reconsideration requests Google sent me an email explaining exactly what was wrong and pointing to several examples, some AMR links and some ALN links.

They told me I had to make a 'substantial effort' to clean up the links before they would lift the penalty. It was quicker and easier to just start again! The domains kept their PR so I added them to ALN and free blog links in exchange for more backlinks. :-)

Couple things here too ...

some peeps would also 301 the old domains to a new one and pass all the PR and link juice - and most times - no penalties flow thru ...

As well another strategy may be to use short urls that can be re directed at will - like a firehose.

so if you tagged all your AMR style links thru a handful of redirectable short urls - and google tells you bad boy - point them at competitor A for a while - then remove - over optimization penalties - too man links to quick and unnatural penalties then remove and link decay algo drama for competitor A - just sayin then ya could point them at Wikipedia - and trickle them back to your pumper sites

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

No the sites never came back. The problem was not with the site wide links after all which I stated in an earlier post. The problem was with links created using AMR and ALN. After several reconsideration requests Google sent me an email explaining exactly what was wrong and pointing to several examples, some AMR links and some ALN links.

They told me I had to make a 'substantial effort' to clean up the links before they would lift the penalty.

Neil Sorry to hear that you never got the rankings back but thank you very much for the update. Took a long time to resolve this thread

but with your update I think any reasonable person can come to the conclusion that links can and do hurt sites. There will always be those in denial and who believe and insist otherwise (I suspect we'll soon hear that its all a google conspiracy) but the evidence is at this point overwhelming with you and so many others getting penalties and having those penalties explained.

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patco

13 years ago

I am curious if this is really working. Recently I tried to blast more than 25,000 comments to an article page just to check if the rankings will go down ... and nothing similar ... The ranking is now BETTER!!! When will this affect the ranking???

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by patco

I am curious if this is really working. Recently I tried to blast more than 25,000 comments to an article page just to check if the rankings will go down ... and nothing similar ... The ranking is now BETTER!!! When will this affect the ranking???

It may or it may not. People get the idea that because you CAN tank some sites with links that you will be able to tank all sites or pages in all serps. Its going to depend on a number of variables - does the site have a good quantity of solid natural looking and high authority links as well? What s the percentage of "scuzzy" links to to good links? is there good competition in the keyword niche? Where did the page rank before the link blast? Is the page in question even ranking anywhere to get a significat portion of traffic? (if it isn't then no one is likely to report you because you don't matter). Are you ina serp where everyone is using the unnatural links?

So an increase in rankings as opposed to penalties is going to be all a matter of those variables.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

Neil Sorry to hear that you never got the rankings back but thank you very much for the update. Took a long time to resolve this thread

but with your update I think any reasonable person can come to the conclusion that links can and do hurt sites. There will always be those in denial and who believe and insist otherwise (I suspect we'll soon hear that its all a google conspiracy) but the evidence is at this point overwhelming with you and so many others getting penalties and having those penalties explained.

Hi Mike, thanks! I learnt a great deal with these sites so no worries there. You are right though, there's always going to be those that disagree, no matter the evidence laid before them!

some peeps would also 301 the old domains to a new one and pass all the PR and link juice - and most times - no penalties flow thru ...

As well another strategy may be to use short urls that can be re directed at will - like a firehose.

so if you tagged all your AMR style links thru a handful of redirectable short urls - and google tells you bad boy - point them at competitor A for a while - then remove - over optimization penalties - too man links to quick and unnatural penalties then remove and link decay algo drama for competitor A - just sayin then ya could point them at Wikipedia - and trickle them back to your pumper sites

yeah I didn't want to 301 redirect just in case the penalty was passed over. I've talked to people on both sides of the coin about this recently - those where the penalty wasn't passed and those where it was. I decided against it just in case. Your short url strategy is an interesting thought though, I may look into this one, thanks.

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neil_patmore

13 years ago

I am curious if this is really working. Recently I tried to blast more than 25,000 comments to an article page just to check if the rankings will go down ... and nothing similar ... The ranking is now BETTER!!! When will this affect the ranking???

For some reason I don't find blog comments effective in this context. Although if you give me the url I'll happily fire a 70k blast at it just for fun!

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Fernando Veloso

13 years ago

Guess this is a good time to bring this baby up again. Have fun reading from Page 1 to see how many people will want to eat their hats...

Pfff..

Funny how some of us have been discussing this issue since September 2011...

FV

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neil_patmore 13 years ago

Yup! Watch out for part 2 coming soon.
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