If you had to hire someone from wf for seo, who would it be and why?

13 years ago

Why not take matters in your own hand. Select a couple of Warriors you find interesting and ask them the same questions. So basically interview them a bit, ask them how they cope with the new Google update and how they did things in the past. Then pick the one you find most suitable. Someone that is willing to give you a thorough reply is probably the most suitable SEO service provider.

And why limit yourself to WF? There are tons of VAs/VAteams that do the same or more work for the same price structure you will be paying here. Now, this will need some thorough interviewing and perhaps teaching in some cases. The latter is highly recommended, this basically means you have a full team to your disposal and not someone running a campaign every now and then.

Just wanted to say you shouldn't limit yourself to WF.

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T-shirtman

13 years ago

Matt Laclear

I have purchased a lot of WSO here and I must say most have been great but I am not sure there is anyone who can come close to what Matt Laclear and his team offer, long before everyone was saying you need to mix up your anchor text they (Matt and his team) was already on this and updating there system to mix up anchor text.

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raywarrior1978

13 years ago

Thank Steven and TShirt Man for your advice. I have when to Elance but they charge alot. Also I have thought about using Matt before but I am confused about something.

For example: Every site I have I am only trying to rank for one keyword only. His offer says 5 keywords per url. Now how do I choose the other 4 keywords for my site if those keywords are not in my content? Do I have to put the other keywords I want to rank for on my content and do I have to highlight then in bold black? I don't get it...

Also I heard that he tells you to give him 5 keywords because he tries to rank you for the easiest of the five and then your seo service is completed. To me that is kinda of suck unless each of the 5 keywords I give him has at least 5,000 exact searches per month or more.

Anyways hope you can give me some advice about how to choose my other 4 keywords. Can I choose keywords that are related to my niche but the keywords are not in the url, title, or content? Will a site still rank for that? The keyword might not be there but maybe it is relevant to my site niche.

Let me know, thanks

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

Thank Steven and TShirt Man for your advice. I have when to Elance but they charge alot. Also I have thought about using Matt before but I am confused about something.

For example: Every site I have I am only trying to rank for one keyword only. His offer says 5 keywords per url. Now how do I choose the other 4 keywords for my site if those keywords are not in my content? Do I have to put the other keywords I want to rank for on my content and do I have to highlight then in bold black? I don't get it...

Also I heard that he tells you to give him 5 keywords because he tries to rank you for the easiest of the five and then your seo service is completed. To me that is kinda of suck unless each of the 5 keywords I give him has at least 5,000 exact searches per month or more.

Anyways hope you can give me some advice about how to choose my other 4 keywords. Can I choose keywords that are related to my niche but the keywords are not in the url, title, or content? Will a site still rank for that? The keyword might not be there but maybe it is relevant to my site niche.

Let me know, thanks

The way it works is simple. You give us one url and five keywords. We then add an additional 50 keywords and backlink to all of them equally until your site ranks for one of the five keywords you give us.

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stevo235

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

The way it works is simple. You give us one url and five keywords. We then add an additional 50 keywords and backlink to all of them equally until your site ranks for one of the five keywords you give us.

Sounds very penguin friendly to me

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T-shirtman 13 years ago

Originally Posted by stevo235

Sounds very penguin friendly to me

''Bargain Homepage 10x PR3 Backlink Network Just $8 Per Month!!!''

Sounds very penguin friendly to me
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T-shirtman

13 years ago

There must be more than 1 keyword that you would benefit from being in the Top10.

With regards to matt and his team picking the easiest keyword I don’t think you should really be saying things like this unless you have evidence and I can tell you I don’t see any evidence of this in my campaign they are working on.

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raywarrior1978 13 years ago

I don't have evidence on that, but if I heard from other members who haved payed for his service. Don't get me wrong, it does work, they are just saying that is the easy words out of the 5 that they try to rank on the first page first and then your seo service is consider completed. If this is the case then I think you should provide 5 keywords and that they each have around 5,000 or more exact local searches per month and then one of your keyword will get traffic no matter what
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TheProgrammer

13 years ago

Select the above person, he'll be yours first and final choice.

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komplex

Banned 13 years ago

Looking at Matt L's posts and support and testimonials on his services, I feel confident hiring him. Sent him a PM just a little bit ago.

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kickmoney

13 years ago

No one.

If I was interested in the sort of SEO campaign you're talking about I would buy a bunch of C-Class IP's and do it myself.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by kickmoney

No one.

If I was interested in the sort of SEO campaign you're talking about I would buy a bunch of C-Class IP's and do it myself.

Don't go that C class route, just grab yourself 10 shared unique hostings and throw 2 sites on each. Then you have 20 sites to help you rank. It's much better. C-class seo hosting sucks!

I would hire my VA's to do SEO for me, they rock! I'm glad their paypal is banned or I would get some tough competition here
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Theeban

13 years ago

I would say, before you hire someone, ask for FREE Offer at least for one keyword, Get proof by yourself for their service. If you get success, then continue working with them.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Theeban

I would say, before you hire someone, ask for FREE Offer at least for one keyword, Get proof by yourself for their service. If you get success, then continue working with them.

I would like to take a free offer for kw: "mortgage" the site has recently been penalized, have fun with it

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Theeban

I would say, before you hire someone, ask for FREE Offer at least for one keyword, Get proof by yourself for their service. If you get success, then continue working with them.

Sorry, but no real SEO professional is going to work for free.

Go ask your attorney, accountant, doctor, or financial adviser to work for free to show you proof that they know what they are doing. Let me know how that works out for you.

On the other hand, they can probably show you proof of SEO campaigns they have worked on in the past, and there is nothing wrong with asking for that.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Theeban

I would say, before you hire someone, ask for FREE Offer at least for one keyword, Get proof by yourself for their service. If you get success, then continue working with them.

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

You can't afford me. :p

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jackpot9 13 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

You can't afford me. :p

Are you worth it???
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

If you had to hire one person from WF to do all of your seo work, who would it be and why?

And with that your criteria you just shot yourself in the foot. Post Google's Penguin update 95% of what was and is being offered on WF will get you a notice from Google for Unnatural links and your site sent to Siberia. To the extent that testimonials ever did matter they matter even less now. The game has changed over the last three months and more in the last two weeks. Most of the SEO services offered on WF have people who have complained rightfully that those services caused their sites to tank and get unnatural links. Thats a fact.

Asking that question generally is also not going to do you well. anyone can fly in who knows precious little about SEO and make recommendations and based on their dubious ideas of what success is.

I would suggest you stay away from all SEO offers on WF until you know what you need to know about SEO and the latest Penguin update or you will just be trowing more money away just like you have been doing on packages. think about it - all you are going to get in this thread is testimonials - the very same kind of testimonials that you said led you the wrong way before.

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zannix

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

And with that your criteria you just shot yourself in the foot. Post Google's Penguin update 95% of what was and is being offered on WF will get you a notice from Google for Unnatural links and your site sent to Siberia. To the extent that testimonials ever did matter they matter even less now. The game has changed over the last three months and more in the last two weeks. Most of the SEO services offered on WF have people who have complained rightfully that those services caused their sites to tank and get unnatural links. Thats a fact.

Asking that question generally is also not going to do you well. anyone can fly in who knows precious little about SEO and make recommendations and based on their dubious ideas of what success is.

I would suggest you stay away from all SEO offers on WF until you know what you need to know about SEO and the latest Penguin update or you will just be trowing more money away just like you have been doing on packages. think about it - all you are going to get in this thread is testimonials - the very same kind of testimonials that you said led you the wrong way before.

This is one of the best and most honest replies I've read in a while. No need to add another word.

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BigFatTunaFish

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

And with that your criteria you just shot yourself in the foot. Post Google's Penguin update 95% of what was and is being offered on WF will get you a notice from Google for Unnatural links and your site sent to Siberia. To the extent that testimonials ever did matter they matter even less now. The game has changed over the last three months and more in the last two weeks. Most of the SEO services offered on WF have people who have complained rightfully that those services caused their sites to tank and get unnatural links. Thats a fact.

Asking that question generally is also not going to do you well. anyone can fly in who knows precious little about SEO and make recommendations and based on their dubious ideas of what success is.

I would suggest you stay away from all SEO offers on WF until you know what you need to know about SEO and the latest Penguin update or you will just be trowing more money away just like you have been doing on packages. think about it - all you are going to get in this thread is testimonials - the very same kind of testimonials that you said led you the wrong way before.

Hi Mike,
I just purchased your SEO Network training class and wanted to follow up/confirm because there seemed to be no re-direct after paying at PayPal. Would you mind sending me the information via PM as to how I access the course and members area? Thanks. Here's the paypal transaction id: 9XC937250H209561S
(Sorry for posting something unrelated to this thread but still a newbie to the form and cannot send a PM!)

Thomas

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFatTunaFish

Hi Mike,
(Sorry for posting something unrelated to this thread but still a newbie to the form and cannot send a PM!)

Thomas

You were squared away long ago but if in the future you ever have a problem like that just write the paypal address on the transaction.
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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

And with that your criteria you just shot yourself in the foot. Post Google's Penguin update 95% of what was and is being offered on WF will get you a notice from Google for Unnatural links and your site sent to Siberia.

Not to nitpick, Michael, but Penguin wasn't about "unnatural" link notices.

To the extent that testimonials ever did matter they matter even less now. The game has changed over the last three months and more in the last two weeks. Most of the SEO services offered on WF have people who have complained rightfully that those services caused their sites to tank and get unnatural links. Thats a fact.

I guess you can look at it one of two ways. If some service produced enough results to get a ridiculous amount of testimonials maybe they can adapt to what Google is looking for (as they were able to do so to get all of their testimonials). It isn't like this is the first time Google has made significant changes.

Or you can assume that they "lucked" their way into providing results to a lot of people. This is probably what you will assume but that means little to anybody else.

Asking that question generally is also not going to do you well. anyone can fly in who knows precious little about SEO and make recommendations and based on their dubious ideas of what success is.

The "people are stupid" canard.

I'm not sure what one should expect for the low prices from WF providers. It's about ROI, Michael. It matters not a hill of beans what you think is a "success" when somebody else is determining value for their purchases.

What should be reasonable to expect from a $20 purchase? $50? $100? thousands of page views a day or even hundreds? That's just not going to happen in most cases.

I would suggest you stay away from all SEO offers on WF until you know what you need to know about SEO and the latest Penguin update or you will just be trowing more money away just like you have been doing on packages. think about it - all you are going to get in this thread is testimonials - the very same kind of testimonials that you said led you the wrong way before.

I agree with this, oddly.

The site owners should learn more about SEO because alot of times people buy a service then backlink their page with a couple of anchor text or from one source of links only then blame the service. You wouldn't go into McDonald's and order a chicken sandwich, 20 mcnuggets and two big macs and a large strawberry shake then blame McDonald's for your stomach ache. In SEO, when you buy services you have to know some basics.

Most services here are merely tools. Learn how to use the tools that you buy.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Not to nitpick, Michael, but Penguin wasn't about "unnatural" link notices.

Links were a target of the algo change just as unnatural link notices are a part of the overall equation now. the distinction is without meaningful merit. Fall in the serps is a fall in the serps.

I guess you can look at it one of two ways. If some service produced enough results to get a ridiculous amount of testimonials maybe they can adapt to what Google is looking for (as they were able to do so to get all of their testimonials). It isn't like this is the first time Google has made significant changes.

by that reasoning a decent rugby player will instant make a great NFL player. No rules change and we see if they can adapt not assume they will. Adaptation is easy to see. In this case no - "they" haven't. For the most part most service providers are offering the same stuff they offered before the changes and some are trying to pretend like they have things under control by sticking their heads in the sand. Some even started new services and networks with the same spun nonsense that helped other networks get deindexed. It s really quite insane when you think about it.

Or you can assume that they "lucked" their way into providing results to a lot of people. This is probably what you will assume but that means little to anybody else.

No I assume they have been bamboozled by the general IM seo mentality into thinking that number 8 that statistically gets next to no traffic is success at ranking. its ot about people being stupid its about people having other areas of expertise and being entirely too trusting .

It matters not a hill of beans what you think is a "success" when somebody else is determining value for their purchases.

and are they now seeing value?

with multiple threads complaining about tanking and some service providers (who you know well) refusing to remove the links they left that caused them to tank? You are right its about what they are seeing as the value in their sites dropping in the ranks not what a service providers wants to spin about the value of their service now.

What should be reasonable to expect from a $20 purchase? $50? $100?

Um anything that doesn't cause their sites to tank would be good - or um what good is it even at $5?

I agree with this, oddly.

The site owners should learn more about SEO because alot of times people buy a service then backlink their page with a couple of anchor text or from one source of links only then blame the service. You wouldn't go into McDonald's and order a chicken sandwich, 20 mcnuggets and two big macs and a large strawberry shake then blame McDonald's for your stomach ache.

Depends if MCdonald told them it was a well balanced meal. In many cases link sellers here tell them it will cause the sites to be very healthy and rank. Wheres the "you need other links cause ours alone will just hurt you " in the sales copy? Can we expect to see it in sellers sales copy soon?

Frankly we don't agree. I believe they should learn better SEo so that they can know a good offer before they buy whereas in countless conversations with you theres never been a time including now when something went wrong that you were not in favor of blaming the client. So you use it merely to excuse the service and blame the client that should be smart enough to not rely on the seller's sales copy. I don't

What was that again? The "people are stupid" canard?

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

No I assume they have been bamboozled by the general IM seo mentality into thinking that number 8 that statistically gets next to no traffic is success at ranking. its ot about people being stupid its about people having other areas of expertise and being entirely too trusting .

It's also about that most people don't want to spend hundreds of dollars so what to expect for $99,- page one ranking?

I don't offer page one rankings and if I would I sure wouldn't charge as low as $99,- as you can only build so many links or spend so many time on it to keep it profitable. Maybe I would in the near future but then there will be different prices based on the difficulties of the keywords.

Let's say Matt gets a keyword that would make $100/month when it reaches the top 3. It's not realistic to expect top 3 results for $99,- for such keyword.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

It's also about that most people don't want to spend hundreds of dollars so what to expect for $99

First I am cutting off the quote there so as not to get into a discussion about one service. SO what I say applies to all cheap backlink products

All that is well and good but post BMR deindexing, Post unnatural link notices, Post Google looking at links in unrelated and gibbberish content you might as well stick the $99 - 140 whatever in your pocket if you are giving your site a good shot at getting tanked.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

First I am cutting off the quote there so as not to get into a discussion about one service. SO what I say applies to all cheap backlink products

All that is well and good but post BMR deindexing, Post unnatural link notices, Post Google looking at links in unrelated and gibbberish content you might as well stick the $99 - 140 whatever in your pocket if you are giving your site a good shot at getting tanked.

Am I glad 95% of my links aren't contextual links

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Let's say Matt gets a keyword that would make $100/month when it reaches the top 3. It's not realistic to expect top 3 results for $99,- for such keyword.

Right, its about ROI. It's about foundational rankings, if you want to go further then starting on page one is a huge plus. I'm not sure what Michael expects for $99.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Right, its about ROI. It's about foundational rankings, if you want to go further then starting on page one is a huge plus. I'm not sure what Michael expects for $99.

Indeed, it's very easy to say that we are not SEO's but just linkbuilders, and there is true in it, but they forget that they charge $1k/month so it's totally comparing apples to pears.

Besides that I've ranked quiet a few local businesses at the top 3 for several keywords for about $100,- onetime fee. A normal "professional" SEO company would have easily quoted them for $300-400/month.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Indeed, it's very easy to say that we are not SEO's but just linkbuilders, and there is true in it, but they forget that they charge $1k/month so it's totally comparing apples to pears.

Besides that I've ranked quiet a few local businesses at the top 3 for several keywords for about $100,- onetime fee. A normal "professional" SEO company would have easily quoted them for $300-400/month.

Nothing wrong with being a link builder/seller. SEO is a completely different ballgame though. It's so much more than just link building.

And yeah there are many types of clients.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Indeed, it's very easy to say that we are not SEO's but just linkbuilders, and there is true in it, but they forget that they charge $1k/month so it's totally comparing apples to pears.

They who? before you start talking about apples and pears maybe you should get the facts straight first nik. Only one person has said their minimum is $1,000 and I believe it was you that stated that Mike F charges minimum $500 per month. H e hasn't stated his prices himself yet. I can go as low as $399 and as High as $3,000 or more but you still have some more facts to get straight before you claim to be making a good comparison.

Right in this very thread you've had cheaper sellers claim that you should get more links and use other services as well. SO go ahead and add those into the mix, then take the time to do good keyword research which they don't do, analyze competition which they don't do, specify and go after one keyword rather than five which they don't do. Once you start adding up the costs of those things that have to be done you can easily go into the hundreds either in money spent or time spent.

We re not done yet though because almost all of them will have ongoing charges because none of them guarantee that the one time payment will last for any substantial period of time.

SO even in the cheaper packages you are not adding into it all the ongoing and hidden costs that your customers WILL end up spending. the Regular SEO in many cases is just being more upfront and clear about those charges while you don't have to include them but your customers still have to spend.

Then you can go ahead with your apples and oranges claim. jUst start at the right point or you are skewing it.

Besides that I've ranked quiet a few local businesses at the top 3 for several keywords for about $100,- onetime fee. A normal "professional" SEO company would have easily quoted them for $300-400/month.

ANd you keep them there no matter what as well for the same $100? Huge difference being if you luck out and get a few top positions you still are not doing what normal SEOs do and thats putting their rear on the line to actually deliver that ranking to a particular client and serp. When I see backlink providers saying they will deliver top three to all their customers then I'll be impressed cause seriously you take in enough cheap customers then you end up with a whole variety of keywords and serps and in some cases can do almost nothing and they will rank with the weak competition some of them are in

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

They who? before you start talking about apples and pears maybe you should get the facts straight first nik. Only one person has said their minimum is $1,000 and I believe it was you that stated that Mike F charges minimum $500 per month. H e hasn't stated his prices himself yet. I can go as low as $399 and as High as $3,000 or more but you still have some more facts to get straight before you claim to be making a good comparison.

You shouldn't take words so literally, $500 $1000 it doesn't matter much for the example, it comes down to the point that most of the SEO companies (not linksellers) charge on average $5k/year. And then people start to compare our $100 linkpackages to a $5k/year service. That IS what I meant with comparing apples to pears.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Right in this very thread you've had cheaper sellers claim that you should get more links and use other services as well. SO go ahead and add those into the mix, then take the time to do good keyword research which they don't do, analyze competition which they don't do, specify and go after one keyword rather than five which they don't do. Once you start adding up the costs of those things that have to be done you can easily go into the hundreds either in money spent or time spent.

We re not done yet though because almost all of them will have ongoing charges because none of them guarantee that the one time payment will last for any substantial period of time.

SO even in the cheaper packages you are not adding into it all the ongoing and hidden costs that your customers WILL end up spending. the Regular SEO in many cases is just being more upfront and clear about those charges while you don't have to include them but your customers still have to spend.

Then you can go ahead with your apples and oranges claim. jUst start at the right point or you are skewing it.

Yes you are right about that. Not many are prepared to pay that though. Still there is quiet a difference between being able to rank a client for $100,- for a couple of months. Do that 4 times a year and it's $400/year, not $4000/year and most of the sites that I rank certainly stick a couple of months. I have quiet a few SEO companies that outsource their work to me and they do charge amounts like $300+/month to their clients, and pay me $50/month. Before they outsourced it to me they used BMR and ALN only.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

ANd you keep them there no matter what as well for the same $100? Huge difference being if you luck out and get a few top positions you still are not doing what normal SEOs do and thats putting their rear on the line to actually deliver that ranking to a particular client and serp. When I see backlink providers saying they will deliver top three to all their customers then I'll be impressed cause seriously you take in enough cheap customers then you end up with a whole variety of keywords and serps and in some cases can do almost nothing and they will rank with the weak competition some of them are in

Yeah lol I shouldnt have made that $100 top 3 results example, although the client still ranks there after 4 months. Anyway, if they pay me $5k/year I'm also going out of my way to rank them and keep them there. With 5k or any monthly service there is a lot more possible. Like giving them spots at my private network (which is in the making), for a one time fee I ain't gonna give them prominent links at my sites, yes they can buy a guestpost in the near future but clients who would sign for monthly would get a fixed featured post kind of things and/or homepage links at relevant sites.

For one time fees thats just impossible. I would shoot myself in the foot, although I do offer a few spots for a onetime fee for a limited time (as in might quit offering it soon) the homepage links would stay forever.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

I would like to add something to all this.

You know how freaking easy it would be for me to rank a client and keep them there when I get a $500/month budget?

There are many ways but I could build them a little private network and invest the first 2-3 months payments into that .

Or I could spend half of the monthly budget on rented links at high relevant sites, for example TextLinkBrokers.

If I had more of these clients I would get a $3850,- subscription to PRweb for unlimited press releases and throw out a press release once in 3 months.

You make it sound like it's hard to get clients rankings and keep them there, it's dead easy when the budget is wide enough.

And this are just a few tricks, obvious I would use a bit more diversity to cover the rented links.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

You make it sound like it's hard to get clients rankings and keep them there, it's dead easy when the budget is wide enough.

Nik I didn't want to say it before but since you insist. I've read your posts and statements and the questions you have had and you are in absolutley no position to make any claims you know nothing about. You are relatively new to SEO and pretty clueless of what goes on out there.

The very fact that you think that $500 a month would give you the budget to build a network that could rank in a truly competitive serp is all anyone needs to see to know you are blowing smoke based on lack of knowledge. You could barely pick up two good Pr4s for that and in no way does that mean you will go charging to the top in a competitive serp.

Meanwhile take a look at the thread title and tell me again that how much people in this thread actually charge is not the point but some general idea you have of SEO salaries?

I better stop reading this thread because I always want to respond when I see nonsense and theres no end of it in this thread now. I realize you guys want to sell your services but the bottom line is alot of things that the $99 and below services offer right now is just plain toxic to many web sites. Its not the price -its that tanking someones site isn't even worth 50 cents unless you want run a negative SEO on someone.

I have nothing again price points but if what you can deliver for that is potentially detrimental to sites in spammy links, spun content links, and other assorted garbage that ALREADY HAVE had people get unnatural link reports then that stuff is FAR costlier to anyone making money from their sites than the $500+ per month SEOs.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The very fact that you think that $500 a month would give you the budget to build a network that could rank in a truly competitive serp is all anyone needs to see to know you are blowing smoke based on lack of knowledge. You could barely pick up two good Pr4s for that and in no way does that mean you will go charging to the top in a competitive serp.

Can you show me where I mentioned that $500/month is enough for a truly competitive serp? There are SERPS where $50.000/month isn't enough. Let me ignore the first part cause it makes not much sense really. Just a fyi: I do have a client that pay me $4000/month and I have clients that pay me $1000/month they found me on this forum, beleive it or not. One of the reasons why I sell cheap services, it helps me to land large clients as they see proof of my work first and many are very impressed by what I accomplish with $100,-

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I realize you guys want to sell your services but the bottom line is alot of things that the $99 and below services offer right now is just plain toxic to many web sites. Its not the price -its that tanking someones site isn't even worth 50 cents unless you want run a negative SEO on someone.

Mike seriously, have you even looked at my signature links to see what I offer in the packages? You should before you make more assumptions. None of the links that I offer hurt a site. Go look for yourself and tell me then again, specifically what you find spammy about it okay? Maybe you looked a month or so ago but a lot has changed in the meanwhile, yes it used to be spammy but not anymore.

Btw for this 4k client I work on many of his sites and we target dozens of urls at the same time, so it's not like 1 competitive term we are after, more like 250 low competition keywords per site.

I do have a little side note about your first paragraph btw, how much experience do you think it gave me to work on 100+ sites in a few months? That are 100+ individual case studies, then add the experience I had before I joined this forum which makes me a pretty damn good linkbuilder.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Can you show me where I mentioned that $500/month is enough for a truly competitive serp?

Then you have no point Nik. Real SEos don't take just the adsense weak serps. Once you get outside of that arena no you will not rank an average SEO customer with two PR4s.

I do have a client that pay me $4000/month and I have clients that pay me $1000/month they found me on this forum, beleive it or not.

Since you put it that way no I don't believe it. IF you worked for $4,000 a month then you would never go down to $19 and its nonsense to say that the low end like that leads to them upping their price to $4,000 . It happens but rarely. You are blowing deep dark smoke.

Mike seriously, have you even looked at my signature links to see what I offer in the packages? You should before you make more assumptions. None of the links that I offer hurt a site. Go look for yourself and tell me then again, specifically what you find spammy about it okay?

NIk. Seriously. LOL. I got to get out of this place. this is like the Twilight zone. What???? how about 2500 BOOKMARKS

Go look for yourself and tell me then again, specifically what you find spammy about it okay? Maybe you looked a month or so ago but a lot has changed in the meanwhile, yes it used to be spammy but not anymore.

Your wish is my command

2500 BOOKMARKS MEETS NO ONES (especially not Google's) definition of non spammy links.

Btw for this 4k client I work on many of his sites and we target dozens of urls at the same time, so it's not like 1 competitive term we are after, more like 250 low competition keywords per site.

Still not buying it. You make Thousands off of a few customers but do outsource work for $50 a month? Give me a break.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Then you have no point Nik. Real SEos don't take just the adsense weak serps. Once you get outside of that arena no you will not rank an average SEO customer with two PR4s.

This gets real funny, I mentioned I would invest the first 2-3 monthly payments, that is $1000-1500,-. I could buy 15 PR3 domains for that money and I'm sure I can rank quiet a few keywords for that. Weren't you the one always saying that most people have enough on 5 or 10 strong links?

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Since you put it that way no I don't believe it. IF you worked for $4,000 a month then you would never go down to $19 and its nonsense to say that the low end like that leads to them upping their price to $4,000 . It happens but rarely. You are blowing deep dark smoke.

That $19 package is very effective for micro niche sites and takes me 3 minutes of my time. $4 for my VA so $15/3minutes makes a pretty good hourly dont you think? FYI: I ranked 20 micro niche EMD sites at the top 5 with that $19 package. I work for a micro niche site builder who is scaling up heavily cause of that package. He ordered it 20 times this month already. And whether I do 1 package or 20 packages it still makes me a few minutes so its very lucrative for me to offer that and people like cheap solutions and that is it and the rankings stay, it has nothing to do with spun content, it's my own secret method.

Do you ever think about the future? What if that 4k client quits using my services at some point? That would be like 50% of my revenue gone, so yes I still focus on the little ones as well. There are no guarantees in business, you should know that. Btw all the sites I worked on for him survived the Penguin update. That client bought 10* $100 package to test me btw and he liked what I did, he is a an SEO'er himself and tired of doing it, I learned quiet a lot from him to be honest. He also tested a few other guys and they failed. So yes I am proud of it and it proves that what I do works.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

NIk. Seriously. LOL. I got to get out of this place. this is like the Twilight zone. What???? how about 2500 BOOKMARKS

Your wish is my command

2500 BOOKMARKS MEETS NO ONES (especially not Google's) definition of non spammy links.

Yeah yeah yeah 2500 bookmarks in tier2, spreaded over 100 links, what is that, 25 bookmarks at the top 25 bookmark sites per link right? 100*25= 2500 yes correct. You think it's spammy to send 25 quality bookmarks to a page? Personally I dont think that is spammy. 500 BMD bookmarks to 1 page, that is spammy.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Still not buying it. You make Thousands off of a few customers but do outsource work for $50 a month? Give me a break.

Huh? I don't understand you, I said SEO companies outsource their clients to me and pay me $50/month per client.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

NIk you yourself said I could believe you or not. I choose not. I have said many times that people can say anything on a forum and that I rarely trust testimonials. At this point all that is happening is that you are posting self testimonial after self testimonial.

Despite what you claim I have looked at what you offer and when General SEO knowledge indicates that links are weak no amount of testimonials self or otherwise makes me change my mind

Which is fine for you. You certainly don't need me to believe you but I just don't again based on what I think lots of people know works and what doesn't especially now. It would be silly of me to change that based on testimonails form people I don't know of from the seller themselves.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Which is fine for you. You certainly don't need me to believe you but I just don't again based on what I think lots of people know works and what doesn't especially now. It would be silly of me to change that based on testimonails form people I don't know of from the seller themselves.

Wait a minute, first you say I didn't have enough time to determine if something was working or not post penguin and now you're saying that we KNOW what works and what doesn't work right now. Which is it?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Wait a minute, first you say I didn't have enough time to determine if something was working or not post penguin and now you're saying that we KNOW what works and what doesn't work right now. Which is it?

Try and keep up Marc. there was no "we" and there was no post penguin there. I was talking to Niko not anyone of your failed points and no I was not referring to post penguin. We knew long before Penguin that bookmarks and other referred to link building were not strong links. If someone is going to claim they do great SEo work with then no I am not believing it because they said it or because a few people on a forum claim its so.

But since we are on the subject care to expand on how you know whats in the Penguin update and what will give lasting good results as fact proven in two weeks? Normally it takes a little Seo knowledge to expose the smoke you blow but in this case I think even a newbie can figure it out. Thanks for that.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

NIk you yourself said I could believe you or not. I choose not. I have said many times that people can say anything on a forum and that I rarely trust testimonials. At this point all that is happening is that you are posting self testimonial after self testimonial.

Despite what you claim I have looked at what you offer and when General SEO knowledge indicates that links are weak no amount of testimonials self or otherwise makes me change my mind

Which is fine for you. You certainly don't need me to believe you but I just don't again based on what I think lots of people know works and what doesn't especially now. It would be silly of me to change that based on testimonails form people I don't know of from the seller themselves.

Let me get this straight, you are not accusing me of fake testimonials in my thread right?

I didn't ask you to look at my thread to read the client testimonials btw I asked you to look at the links in my packages and the only links you had a comment on were the bookmarks, which I explained only 25 per page from quality sites like Digg etc.

So as you had no comments on the other links I can only assume that you don't think they are spammy. And I like that

Thanks Mike, for confirming that my packages rock!

ps: I tested each type of link seperatly on a different page, each of these linkgroupes, like 25 docsharing, 25 video submissions, moved the keyword. And I tested it on pages that hadn't moved an inch for months to give it a fair test. All the things that didn't work or were a little too spammy I removed. So maybe weak links in your eye's, each of them works, I can't say that from senuke/amr/xrumer/scrapebox blasts. I did offer senukex as part of my package before for extra variety, just as a bonus really as I never gave it much value and recent tests showed it gave 0 movement and now post penguin it could even hurt a site, so I removed it completely.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Just a little thing I want to express

Since I went more whitehat with only links that work guess what happened with the number of sales?

They dropped

People want to buy crap

And this time you must believe me.
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Let me get this straight, you are not accusing me of fake testimonials in my thread right?

NIk testimonials do not have to be fake to be unreliable. Rest assured I was not making that accusation of you. I am sure you can point at some garbage products that got ton loads of testimonials. Fact is people are at different levels of understanding. I have seen people give testimonials based on moving oorm Page 3 to page two and early in the game when it was likely to be temporary. I have seen people give testimonials before they even used the product, plus frankly some SEO results are so easy to get based on some serps that anything would have ranked them.

So as you had no comments on the other links I can only assume that you don't think they are spammy. And I like that

Thanks Mike, for confirming that my packages rock!

NIk I pointed the bookmarks as obvious.I applaud you for cutting out ton loads of other spammy kind of links but no sorry alot of those links I do not think "rock" and no I am not convinced that if you break up 2500 links and send them to multiple pages on the same that you cannot get the same notice. Mind you I will grant you that if your authority links are really authority links then it might be a decent package overall. However since you indicated you really don't have access to your own large network I would be suspicious of what you mean by authority.

The reality of the economics is what I think kills the cheap backlink packages being good and not potentially harmful. Lets face it getting high quality authority links is either Time consuming in work to get links naturally or costly in dollars to buy. Almost all the cheap packages out there now are essentially built on running blasting software on cheap non authority pages and most of those link resources also tend to be exactly what Google calls unnatural links.

Thats the dilemma and the reason why so many people are saying they are giving up on SEO here - because unfortunately that what alot of the SEO has been built on

I did offer senukex as part of my package before for extra variety, just as a bonus really as I never gave it much value and recent tests showed it gave 0 movement and now post penguin it could even hurt a site, so I removed it completely.

You again are to be commended for that but I think you are going to find that you are not going to be able to all three - cheap, safe and effective - into one package anymore

Although I am sure some sellers will try and claim for as long as they can that the give all three.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Cheap, safe and effective is indeed hard to achieve indeed. I traded a bit of effectiveness for more safety, and more safety costs more money so the prices are increased last week.

I have some awesome stuff coming up though, I'm building a network of 10.000 manually made customized web2.0s to help them rank my clients. I'm busy with this PRweb deal so I can offer my clients a $369,- professional pressrelease in a $200 package, how sick is that.

And ofcourse building the private network where I already offer 100% unique written guestposts, as I dont want spun content at my site. We have an awesome way to create high relevant high unique spin and overall high readable articles that Google just can't detect, but you never know in a few years from now.

Best thing about the network is that we have 150 sites and 5 sites per niche so we cover 30 niches, so each guestpost that I put there will fit and it should pass a manual review. No one at this forum is doing this stuff that I have coming

Thats why I always get pissed of when I read all the services at WF are crap as I'm trying to make a difference.

ps these bookmarks are not pointed at the website pages but at the web2.0s, doc sharing and video sites

I talked with another SEO'er who is pretty hotshot and he got awesome results by dripfeeding 100 bookmarks to a web2.0 and then running the bookmark through a backlink boost service. It's not very cheap but it is pretty effective, and the bookmark buffer make it only more safe, thats why we specificially chose for bookmarks at the top25 sites.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

I have some awesome stuff coming up though, I'm building a network of 10.000 manually made customized web2.0s to help them rank my clients. I'm busy with this PRweb deal so I can offer my clients a $369,- professional pressrelease in a $200 package, how sick is that.

Nik I know alot of people think I just like to give a hard time but I give credit where credit is due and that is in fact some nice stuff coming up for you. Depending on how you do it I might even say it rocks

. I have to add though that I am not into the 10,000 number. However I HAVE seen some evidence that Web 2.0s have some new life I just don't think they are being done properly now. Early Penguin results show some added preference to Domain level authority and some WEB 2.0s may be getting the benefit of that.

And ofcourse building the private network where I already offer 100% unique written guestposts, as I dont want spun content at my site.

Again Kudos. You ARE learning quick. Its staggering how many service providers are trying to claim that spun content is still good on a network.

We have an awesome way to create high relevant high unique spin and overall high readable articles that Google just can't detect, but you never know in a few years from now.

Sentence spinning to me is the same as rewriting. I don't put it in the category of spinning it is readable so if you do something similar then you will be golden.

Best thing about the network is that we have 150 sites and 5 sites per niche so we cover 30 niches, so each guestpost that I put there will fit and it should pass a manual review. No one at this forum is doing this stuff that I have coming

Umm don't be too sure. Niche networks are out there. I admit openly I was late to that but I am getting into it.

I talked with another SEO'er who is pretty hotshot and he got awesome results by dripfeeding 100 bookmarks to a web2.0 and then running the bookmark through a backlink boost service. It's not very cheap but it is pretty effective, and the bookmark buffer make it only more safe, thats why we specificially chose for bookmarks at the top25 sites.

I really doubt the awesomeness of it with bookmarks but I will say in fairness that yes if there is any use for spammy links still left it s aiming them at web 2.0 and then to your money site. However to me it would be FAR more effective to run blog comments (and call me a prude but I prefer manual because I find more justice in moderation needed blogs.) to web 2.0 and then to money sites. I have an experiment going with that right now.

Last post was a reasonable thoughtful SEO post Nik. Enjoyed it.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Nik I know alot of people think I just like to give a hard time but I give credit where credit is due and that is in fact some nice stuff coming up for you. Depending on how you do it I might even say it rocks

. I have to add though that I am not into the 10,000 number. However I HAVE seen some evidence that Web 2.0s have some new life I just don't think they are being done properly now. Early Penguin results show some added preference to Domain level authority and some WEB 2.0s may be getting the benefit of that.

Thanks, it's very appreciated, I know you are a reasonable guy.

Web2.0s are far from dead. I used to order a lot of senukex fiverr gigs. They did NOTHING to the rankings, really zero, not even in top 1000.

Then as an experiment I builded 20 web2.0s manually (with 1 and the same unique piece of content) for a client that I kind of befriended with and I also rented some homepage links at a dubious russian network. (we always experiment a bit). He ranked poof at #2 for a 1 word product kw. Then I forgot to keep up with the money at that network and the links got removed. The 5* PR3 homepage links vanished (max 10 OBL btw), his rankings sticked. I was impressed.

Then I started to play with long ass articles in huge paragraph + word spin level, grab 15 articles and spin it, this creates such kw rich content, it's amazing (1100+ words btw), we started to customize the web2.0's even more where possible and it worked awesomely well, where all this auto generated web2.0s never did anything this worked amazing. I offered it as a seperate service here, no one was interested so I merged the packages. Shows again that people really don't know what they buy.

Now that these rank websites well I wanted to see how they perform on theirselves. I blasted it with 100 authority links ($19 package), the tumblr blog now ranks at #18 for "Mortgage calculator uk", check it yourself I would say (a 22k exact high comp. keyword). You can run it through backlink checkers, I bet you won't find a single link. And you can check how the spin looks btw.

My plan with the web2.0s is that I go optimize them for niches, so I get a lot of longtail kw's and will blast many of them with 100 authority links. I chose only subdomain web2.0s btw. Then the ones that rank and get visitors, I will take out of the network and monetize with Amazon and keep for myself

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Again Kudos. You ARE learning quick. Its staggering how many service providers are trying to claim that spun content is still good on a network.

Sentence spinning to me is the same as rewriting. I don't put it in the category of spinning it is readable so if you do something similar then you will be golden.

Hehehe, although I don't want spun on my own network I do use it above described way on web2.0s. Why? Is has to stay affordable, especially when you sell services here and for me it proved that my spun content is good. As the spun doesn't make a well storyline it's not usable for websites that you own, Google manual reviewers would notice it if they read the articles.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Umm don't be too sure. Niche networks are out there. I admit openly I was late to that but I am getting into it.

Okay haven't spotted them really yet but would be a miracle if I was the first one indeed to come up with that idea.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I really doubt the awesomeness of it with bookmarks but I will say in fairness that yes if there is any use for spammy links still left it s aiming them at web 2.0 and then to your money site. However to me it would be FAR more effective to run blog comments (and call me a prude but I prefer manual because I find more justice in moderation needed blogs.) to web 2.0 and then to money sites. I have an experiment going with that right now.

Last post was a reasonable thoughtful SEO post Nik. Enjoyed it.

Blog comments might work well but it gets too expensive to use them as tier 2. I dont have clients with 1 site that want to rank for one real tough keyword. My large client has as previously said dozens of url's I have to target, the tiered way would not work. Agree completely with the moderated part btw.

Not to brag but cause I sell SEO services many SEO companies contact me, and add me to Skype, whether to sell me something or to outsource their work to me. And I totally hear them out, always, that way I pick up some real great techniques along the way. They may find me noobish sometimes but they also see I love to learn and totally adapt to how they want to have it done. Thats why I landed large clients, they are just plain tiered of SEO, they tell me what they want and I organize it all with VA's and all the stuff.

Oh about the bookmarks, I learned a lot from this guy who pointed me at it, and he ranked tough stuff with custom web2.0s tier1, bookmarks tier2, backlink booster tier3. Ofcourse he does a lot more then that, like pressreleases and many more things but he has many sites, has a few large clients and gets awesome results. He is also tired of doing SEO, come on it can get pretty boring sometimes, and wants to outsource all of his clients to me eventually with him being my mentor really.

So that is how I land large clients really, I guess it makes a bit more sense after this explanation. I like bragging but only about things that are true. It makes no sense to spread nonsense, even on forums. This is not the typical insurance company clients, it are all SEO'ers theirselves just tired of dealing with VA's and all. And they are very succesfull so they can afford it.

This forum has made me from 1 order a week, to 1 order a day but the larger clients triple the revenue. It's so terrible that I might have to call off on offering it at this forum as he has some big stuff waiting for me, but I dont like to get dependant on 1 or 2 people so I'll just open a new can of VA's

Thank you Warrior Forum!

ps I am sure I have penalized some client sites, and I hate it and I dont really understand why others keep selling the crap you know. At some point when you go to bed you have to think about what you're really selling right? People work hard for the money, dont want to spend much, so all I can do is try to get the best for them and learn some tough lessons along the road with deindexing, bad anchor diversity you name it.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Links were a target of the algo change just as unnatural link notices are a part of the overall equation now. the distinction is without meaningful merit. Fall in the serps is a fall in the serps.

What you said was factually incorrect, nonetheless. I don't know why you can't just admit it?

by that reasoning a decent rugby player will instant make a great NFL player. No rules change and we see if they can adapt not assume they will. Adaptation is easy to see. In this case no - "they" haven't. For the most part most service providers are offering the same stuff they offered before the changes and some are trying to pretend like they have things under control by sticking their heads in the sand. Some even started new services and networks with the same spun nonsense that helped other networks get deindexed. It s really quite insane when you think about it.

If you want to use that analogy then you'd have to assume that this rugby player has transitioned from many sports and succeeded. Google didn't start making changes on 4/24 they have been doing it since 2002. We've gone through a ton of rounds of panda and now we have penguin. Changes are nothing new.

No I assume they have been bamboozled by the general IM seo mentality into thinking that number 8 that statistically gets next to no traffic is success at ranking.

Let's see, they order a service that gives them what they wanted and that's bad? Just because Michael says they shouldn't have wanted that in the first place? Get a clue Michael.

its ot about people being stupid its about people having other areas of expertise and being entirely too trusting .

No, it's about ROI.

and are they now seeing value?

with multiple threads complaining about tanking and some service providers (who you know well) refusing to remove the links they left that caused them to tank?

First, you can't tell what links caused a site to tank. Secondly, everybody was hit by penguin even sites that weren't actively backlinking. Thirdly, not everybody was affected and it looks like we know why now.

You are right its about what they are seeing as the value in their sites dropping in the ranks not what a service providers wants to spin about the value of their service now.

But you are making the assumption that everybody who used a service on WF got hit when this is 100% baseless assertion. I can attest to this FACT with our customers. Some got hit, most didn't. Spin that.

You don't have enough data points to make these assertions meaningful.

Um anything that doesn't cause their sites to tank would be good - or um what good is it even at $5?

See above.

Depends if MCdonald told them it was a well balanced meal. In many cases link sellers here tell them it will cause the sites to be very healthy and rank. Wheres the "you need other links cause ours alone will just hurt you " in the sales copy? Can we expect to see it in sellers sales copy soon?

Well, McDonald's doesn't say this. Website owners need to take responsibility for their sites. If a customer orders some article backlinks and only wants to target one keyword why should the service provider be responsible for the fact that this is very penguin unfriendly? Maybe he's trying to balance out his keywords? You'd hold McDonalds responsible for selling a fat guy a big mac.

Frankly we don't agree.

Not on a whole lot. lol

I believe they should learn better SEo so that they can know a good offer before they buy whereas in countless conversations with you theres never been a time including now when something went wrong that you were not in favor of blaming the client.

Yeah, you have so much data to go on don't you? lol

So you use it merely to excuse the service and blame the client that should be smart enough to not rely on the seller's sales copy. I don't

All I'm saying is the client should know more about SEO when they are using a service that only provides backlinks. We've got both kinds of services where we give links and one where we give page one results. The page one results speak for themselves as they keep rolling in because we ADAPTED the service without any change required by the customer. For the link service a customer needs to know a little more about SEO since it's just a tool and not an all inclusive service.

What was that again? The "people are stupid" canard?

Yeah, you think people can't determine value for themselves. You assume that most people who leave a testimonial is doing so because they have no idea how to determine ROI. They keep coming back over and over again because they see positive ROI.

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raywarrior1978

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

And with that your criteria you just shot yourself in the foot. Post Google's Penguin update 95% of what was and is being offered on WF will get you a notice from Google for Unnatural links and your site sent to Siberia. To the extent that testimonials ever did matter they matter even less now. The game has changed over the last three months and more in the last two weeks. Most of the SEO services offered on WF have people who have complained rightfully that those services caused their sites to tank and get unnatural links. Thats a fact.

Asking that question generally is also not going to do you well. anyone can fly in who knows precious little about SEO and make recommendations and based on their dubious ideas of what success is.

I would suggest you stay away from all SEO offers on WF until you know what you need to know about SEO and the latest Penguin update or you will just be trowing more money away just like you have been doing on packages. think about it - all you are going to get in this thread is testimonials - the very same kind of testimonials that you said led you the wrong way before.

Wow, so confused now. So many great advice but not who to follow. So how do I learn the basics of seo but that applies today not the old seo methods?

I was thinking of hiring an export keyword researcher, I know someone here on WF, give her my url, and let her choose the 5 keywords to give to Matt Laclear to rank my site on the first page. Obviously I think she will provide me for keywords that are profitable, easy to rank for. But then I am hearing that I shouldn't hire no one on WF for seo until I know the basics of it.

I've been wanting to hire Matt service for a while but the problem is that I only have one keyword that I am trying to rank my money site with. I am not sure how to pick the other 4 keywords. Are the other 4 keywords suppose to be in the content of my site? Are this additional keywords consider the LSI keywords? I think I made a rookie mistake by optimizing my site for only one keyword. Sorry

Anyways Matt if you come back in here, please advise me before trying out your service. How is your seo service working by the way with the new penguin algorithims update?

Thank you all for helping me out

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MikeFriedman 13 years ago

Just some food for thought...

I hope you realize that page one rankings are pretty close to meaningless. You need to be in the top 3 to get any worthwhile traffic. If you are ranked #6 for a keyword that gets 5000 searches a month, you might get 2-3 visitors a day. Is 2-3 visitors a day going to make you any money? In some niches, it might. In most, it won't.

Also, if you are going to go the WSO route, I never would, but if you really want to, get a good understanding of what the WSO provider is giving to you. DO NOT just look at the results. Results can be temporary. Just because you get a high ranking today, is your site going to sustain that ranking?

Are the methods being used by the backlink spammer, sorry I mean WSO provider, the kind of thing that Google could easily target in the future, if they haven't already? Something that works today only to get your site sent to page 10 of the rankings with the next update is not very useful.

Lastly, if you are running a legitimate business and not just building some crappy made for AdSense site, are you comfortable with the work that the backlink spammer is providing? If one of your customers ran across an article the backlinker posted or a link they dropped somewhere else and followed it back to your site, would you be ok with what they found? If they are using articles, do the articles make sense? Are they readable? Are they factual about your business? What other links are around them? I have a client I'm trying to help recover rankings right now that used one of these backlink spammers. In one article that was posted by the wanna be SEO, we found his link right beside male enhancement product links and links that redirected to a porn site. Most of the other articles are complete garbage. They read like they were written by a 7 year-old for whom English is their third language.
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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

A few tips of what works and what doesn't work Ray so that you know which links to avoid.

What to avoid and why:

Any linktype created with senukex, this includes web2.0 profiles, social networks (crappy web2.0's actually but they gave it a nice name), article submissions, forumprofiles. It's not that all of these links will specifically hurt your site but they just won't rank you, and many do hurt your site. Those senukex campaigns are what is sold like 80-90% at this forum.

Avoid 100+ article submissions, when they talk about 600+ or 1000+ article submissions and guaranteed 100-150 live links then all alarmbells go of over here, it means in 99% of the cases that they use a software called Article Marketing Robot, which really had its best time a long time ago.

Avoid 500+ bookmarks directly to your site, when people talk about these numbers it are always submission to mostly crappy / spammy sites, won't do any good although you can use them for tier2.

Avoid wiki blasts, I see some very nice salesletters talking about high authority wiki links, don't let them fool you, the only high authority wiki site is wikipedia, at all the other sites your crappy spun article will land at a pr n/a page and hardly ever gets crawled, unless you do a lot of work to get them crawled / indexed. Most people sell these in packages like 1000 or 5000+, avoid these as the plague, even in tier2 / tier3 they hardly help.

In general avoid any type of link that gets build with 100's or 1000's at the same time, it's never good really so avoid xrumer profile links and scrapebox comment blasts as well. Nothing good in those.

Avoid retweets, there used to be a time that they worked, last week I tested 10 different retweet suppliers at Fiverr but also at other sites, nothing helped.

Now that you know what doesn't work or that even hurts your site, let's go on to the things that do work, I still get good results with:

- Video submissions (many tools available but try to find one that submits to strong video sites and not to 100+ cheap youtube clones), it helps your rankings.

- Doc sharing (backlinktopia seems to be a good one for that and I do get ranking increases from it).

- Repins at Pinterest, although I am afraid it will go the same route as retweets, they do work in some way, not too great though.

- Web2.0's, make them manually, create a custom theme, upload an original piece of content or make sure you are able to create a masterpiece of a spinfile, spinning works as long as you know what you are doing, automatic spins with 1 click on the button do not work. Personally I am a fan on broken linkwheel web2.0's and I get very good results with them.

- Other things that work are relevant guestposts, strong homepage links, posting at relevant forums, making relevant blogcomments (obvious these things are a little harder to outsource or a lot more expensive) but it works great.

- Buying laser targetted domains to your keyword/niche works very well

- Pressreleases also work very well, although PRweb works a lot better then E-mail wire. Both start at $99,- or $999/year for emailwire and $3000/year for PRweb for unlimited pressreleases.

- Bookmarks, the good ones at sites like Reddit, Digg, Stumbleupon, voting these bookmarks up works even better, even when people use bots for that. I've seen many Digg bookmarks with votes even outrank the page itself so there is a lot of strength in those to rank on theirselves but also to rank your site. Without votes you won't see much ranking increase though but they help a great deal to get a site indexed fast. Although it's less then it's used to be.

When you follow these guidelines you can't really go wrong! I've tested all of these links and I also had a learning curve and changed my packages a tons of times to be able to offer a package with only links that work and don't spam sites.

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wilsonm

13 years ago

Keep of hearing the term wiki link, what exactly is it?

Originally Posted by nik0

Avoid wiki blasts, I see some very nice salesletters talking about high authority wiki links, don't let them fool you, the only high authority wiki site is wikipedia, at all the other sites your crappy spun article will land at a pr n/a page and hardly ever gets crawled, unless you do a lot of work to get them crawled / indexed. Most people sell these in packages like 1000 or 5000+, avoid these as the plague, even in tier2 / tier3 they hardly help.

Thanks
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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by wilsonm

Keep of hearing the term wiki link, what exactly is it?

Wiki's are a platform where everyone can post what he wants, you could compare it to web2.0 sites in some way. The difference is that wiki sites can be spammed with 1000's of articles at the same time for prices like $5,-

Most of those wannabee wiki's (inspired by wikipedia) have not much authority and cause they get spammed so hard Google doesn't really have time to crawl/index them.
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- DynoMutt 13 years ago
  
  Mike Grant, Mike Anthony, Mike Friedman, yukon and nik0. Based on personal experience with some and what I've read with the others, these are the guys I trust.
  
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codecreative

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

A few tips of what works and what doesn't work Ray so that you know which links to avoid.

What to avoid and why:

Any linktype created with senukex, this includes web2.0 profiles, social networks (crappy web2.0's actually but they gave it a nice name), article submissions, forumprofiles. It's not that all of these links will specifically hurt your site but they just won't rank you, and many do hurt your site. Those senukex campaigns are what is sold like 80-90% at this forum.

Avoid 100+ article submissions, when they talk about 600+ or 1000+ article submissions and guaranteed 100-150 live links then all alarmbells go of over here, it means in 99% of the cases that they use a software called Article Marketing Robot, which really had its best time a long time ago.

Avoid 500+ bookmarks directly to your site, when people talk about these numbers it are always submission to mostly crappy / spammy sites, won't do any good although you can use them for tier2.

Avoid wiki blasts, I see some very nice salesletters talking about high authority wiki links, don't let them fool you, the only high authority wiki site is wikipedia, at all the other sites your crappy spun article will land at a pr n/a page and hardly ever gets crawled, unless you do a lot of work to get them crawled / indexed. Most people sell these in packages like 1000 or 5000+, avoid these as the plague, even in tier2 / tier3 they hardly help.

In general avoid any type of link that gets build with 100's or 1000's at the same time, it's never good really so avoid xrumer profile links and scrapebox comment blasts as well. Nothing good in those.

Avoid retweets, there used to be a time that they worked, last week I tested 10 different retweet suppliers at Fiverr but also at other sites, nothing helped.

Now that you know what doesn't work or that even hurts your site, let's go on to the things that do work, I still get good results with:

- Video submissions (many tools available but try to find one that submits to strong video sites and not to 100+ cheap youtube clones), it helps your rankings.

- Doc sharing (backlinktopia seems to be a good one for that and I do get ranking increases from it).

- Repins at Pinterest, although I am afraid it will go the same route as retweets, they do work in some way, not too great though.

- Web2.0's, make them manually, create a custom theme, upload an original piece of content or make sure you are able to create a masterpiece of a spinfile, spinning works as long as you know what you are doing, automatic spins with 1 click on the button do not work. Personally I am a fan on broken linkwheel web2.0's and I get very good results with them.

- Other things that work are relevant guestposts, strong homepage links, posting at relevant forums, making relevant blogcomments (obvious these things are a little harder to outsource or a lot more expensive) but it works great.

- Buying laser targetted domains to your keyword/niche works very well

- Pressreleases also work very well, although PRweb works a lot better then E-mail wire. Both start at $99,- or $999/year for emailwire and $3000/year for PRweb for unlimited pressreleases.

- Bookmarks, the good ones at sites like Reddit, Digg, Stumbleupon, voting these bookmarks up works even better, even when people use bots for that. I've seen many Digg bookmarks with votes even outrank the page itself so there is a lot of strength in those to rank on theirselves but also to rank your site. Without votes you won't see much ranking increase though but they help a great deal to get a site indexed fast. Although it's less then it's used to be.

When you follow these guidelines you can't really go wrong! I've tested all of these links and I also had a learning curve and changed my packages a tons of times to be able to offer a package with only links that work and don't spam sites.

Hi nik0. I like what you wrote and my gut feelings agree with everything you pretty much said in the post I quoted. With regards " broken link wheel" I wanted to ask about the terminology used. Are you refering to a link pyramid or an open link wheel when say in an 8 spoke wheel site 1 doesn't like to 8.

It seems that link pyramids are now the way to go forward. Or at least one way to go forward. I'm going to avoid pinterest cause i don't want to put efforst into something that is short term.

Is youtube all you need for your video submissions? I know they make your links no follow.

Also what type of docs do you tend to share on the doc sharing site backlinktopi. I have a few sites on page1 but I'm struggling to crack #1 and #2 they sit around #7 and #8.

Can you recommend a specific pr release website

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

Hi nik0. I like what you wrote and my gut feelings agree with everything you pretty much said in the post I quoted. With regards " broken link wheel" I wanted to ask about the terminology used. Are you refering to a link pyramid or an open link wheel when say in an 8 spoke wheel site 1 doesn't like to 8.

It seems that link pyramids are now the way to go forward. Or at least one way to go forward. I'm going to avoid pinterest cause i don't want to put efforst into something that is short term.

Is youtube all you need for your video submissions? I know they make your links no follow.

Also what type of docs do you tend to share on the doc sharing site backlinktopi. I have a few sites on page1 but I'm struggling to crack #1 and #2 they sit around #7 and #8.

Can you recommend a specific pr release website

Broken linkwheel is indeed that we dont connect them in a circle!

Yeah I think Pinterest might not last forever, same like Retweets died.

We submit video's to a lot of sites, I wouldn't only depend on Youtube.

Just random articles that we convert into pdf.

PRweb is a good pressrelease site, although they ain't cheap, otherwise you can search in the for sales forums and you'll find many people who subscribed to unlimited pressrelease at Emailwire and SBwire. A good site for free pressrelease is Free Press Release Distribution Service - PRLog

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tomocal2010 13 years ago

Mike Please can you contact me with a pm with your email.
I would like to discuss a proposition
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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

Hi. I have spend a lot of money on backlink packages from the wf hire section. It pretty obvious that i do not know what I am doing as I just purchased different backlinks packages at different times based on the reviews. The same url and the same keyword. I lost all of my rankings and that is a costly mistake that I have learned from.

There's your problem right there. You simply cannot go too heavy backlinking a few anchor text any longer, let alone a single one. This seems to be what penguin is all about, mostly. If you load up on a few anchor text and never have non keyword anchors pointing to your site you won't get you rankings that you want.

I see so many great testimonials but then I also read from other wf members that their rankings have drop with that particular service.
So sometimes I think that they are either fake testimonials or maybe those are people that know how to build backlinks in the right order and know which backlink package to buy from and they just want to outsource it.

It wouldn't have mattered who you outsourced to if you only target a few keywords (or one). Penguin would have slapped your site down. Testimonials can be faked but they can also represent the fact that the people who were making them had selected the proper keywords, had their sites set up to rank and to take advantage of the traffic once they did rank. If you're ordering backlinking it is your job to make sure your site is setup for success.

If you're ordering links from somebody and then you put in bad keywords and you "over optimize" your anchor text then that doesn't mean the links are bad or don't work.

Also if you wanted to hire one person not only to get your site on page one but on position 1 or 2, who would you hire, why, and what would be the process?

I'm not aware of a set package available that will do this for you. We don't offer this.

I ask that question before to many seo wf members who provide seo services and they all say they don't do that type of service because is way too difficult or way to expensive.

You'd have to get some kind of custom campaign going with something like this. But I guess it depends on your keywords on how hard this would be.

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akazzz

13 years ago

For a guy who has little experience in the seo world, your best bet would be just to follow the reviews and suggestions on the members here which clearly Matt's service is the most recommended here.

However for me, I know what I want in my link building strategy and I just choose specific links that I want to my sites. I don't really bother about reviews, the most important for me is what the service has to offer & the report. and if someone gave me a choice to invest in Matt's service, I personally won't do it. Not because his service is bad or for any personal reason. I just don't want my links in his blogs.

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Unfortunately, most of the "SEOs" on this site are utter jokes.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Yeah... no one.

None of the sellers here are "SEO's", they're just link sellers. Don't take SEO advice from them or trust their testimonials.

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raywarrior1978

13 years ago

Thank you MikeFriedman for that interesting post. You are right about that. I never thought about that even though I heard of it before but I totally forgot. What I mean is when you said that being on page 1 is not enough. Most of the traffic is position 1 and then 2 and 3. After that your chances get very slim. But no one offers that in here.

Also what bnetword said, it does make sense as all I see is backlinks packages for sale. I think an seo guru is someone who knows and stay up to date with all of the latest algorithyms changes and understand what google is asking and how to implement a safe strategy using white hat methods and manual backlinks submissions to relevant sites related to your niche or keywords.

Is hard to learn because even here on WF, some senior people who are knowledgeable about how seo works sometimes contracdict each other so you get confused who to listen to.

Also Nik0 you seem very good at what yu are saying even though I was following your discussion with some guy name Nest28 and he talks about you can appear on page 1 on google with no backlinks at all and stay there. That makes sense to me in a way but not all of the time. For example, I had a brand new site and was ranking on position 2 for 3 1/2 months. Then I decided to buy from someone here with tons of great reviews and my site ended in page 24 and now is not even on the top 50 pages. My adsense earnings stop completetly. Now in that sense I do agree a bit with Nest28 and maybe I shouldn't haved purchased any backlink package. Maybe if I would of learn how to build 3 manual backlinks per day to relevant sites, it would of look very natural and I would of gotten to position 1 withina few days or weeks since my keyword has very low competition due to the fact that position 1 only had 154 backlinks and a pr 0 with less than 1 year of age domain.

Anyways, another study I did was that last week I purchased some social bookmarks and wiki backlinks from fiverr to test another of my adsense sites and today is ranking on position 4. I will try the same package for another of my sites and see if this works as well.

So in some of you are saying that seo services in here don't work and are a joke, then what route should I go if I wanted to outsource this to someone who knows how to rank a site on page one or better yet position 1 or 2.

Thanks

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uzojvp

12 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

Thank you MikeFriedman for that interesting post. You are right about that. I never thought about that even though I heard of it before but I totally forgot. What I mean is when you said that being on page 1 is not enough. Most of the traffic is position 1 and then 2 and 3. After that your chances get very slim. But no one offers that in here.

Also what bnetword said, it does make sense as all I see is backlinks packages for sale. I think an seo guru is someone who knows and stay up to date with all of the latest algorithyms changes and understand what google is asking and how to implement a safe strategy using white hat methods and manual backlinks submissions to relevant sites related to your niche or keywords.

Is hard to learn because even here on WF, some senior people who are knowledgeable about how seo works sometimes contracdict each other so you get confused who to listen to.

Also Nik0 you seem very good at what yu are saying even though I was following your discussion with some guy name Nest28 and he talks about you can appear on page 1 on google with no backlinks at all and stay there. That makes sense to me in a way but not all of the time. For example, I had a brand new site and was ranking on position 2 for 3 1/2 months. Then I decided to buy from someone here with tons of great reviews and my site ended in page 24 and now is not even on the top 50 pages. My adsense earnings stop completetly. Now in that sense I do agree a bit with Nest28 and maybe I shouldn't haved purchased any backlink package. Maybe if I would of learn how to build 3 manual backlinks per day to relevant sites, it would of look very natural and I would of gotten to position 1 withina few days or weeks since my keyword has very low competition due to the fact that position 1 only had 154 backlinks and a pr 0 with less than 1 year of age domain.

Anyways, another study I did was that last week I purchased some social bookmarks and wiki backlinks from fiverr to test another of my adsense sites and today is ranking on position 4. I will try the same package for another of my sites and see if this works as well.

So in some of you are saying that seo services in here don't work and are a joke, then what route should I go if I wanted to outsource this to someone who knows how to rank a site on page one or better yet position 1 or 2.

Thanks

Me, will likely wanna hire Mervik Haums

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limestone614

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Yeah... no one.

None of the sellers here are "SEO's", they're just link sellers. Don't take SEO advice from them or trust their testimonials.

I'd say for the most part you are correct, however, there are more than a few on here that do know what they're doing.

It is a minefield, reputation and referrals are all good signs to look for though.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by limestone614

I'd say for the most part you are correct, however, there are more than a few on here that do know what they're doing.

It is a minefield, reputation and referrals are all good signs to look for though.

Exactly, you can trust testimonials but you shouldn't look at those that are posted before all the updates as they are not very relevant anymore.

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Paul Gram 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Grant

Unfortunately, most of the "SEOs" on this site are utter jokes.

Agree.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

"Senior member" doesn't always mean "knowledgeable". Not even close.

MikeFriedman always posts good infos.

My experience is that being in positions #4 to #9 for 5000 exact match keywords results in 10-20 visitors/day for those keywords. Not that it makes much difference (in most cases).

raywarrior1978, hit me on skype @ "bnenquiries" and I'll talk you through some stuff (I don't sell anything). I should be back on skype from tomorrow (took a few weeks off).

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raywarrior1978 13 years ago

Ok but I am work right now. I work m-fr 9am to 5:30 pm and don't get home till 7pm. I will add you on skype. I am on us eastern time so right now is 11:33am

Let me know what time zone you are in
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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

"Senior member" doesn't always mean "knowledgeable". Not even close.

MikeFriedman always posts good infos.

As long as we are dropping names I would go with this. With Mr Friedman you are going to get a guy that knows more than one tactic and strategy. The major problem with most providers on here is they focus on one thing (as its all most know) and one thing only for every single customer, niche or situation. Its mass SEO. NO analysis , no checking your competition, no keyword research for you just mass cookie cutter one size fits all SEO. Their whole business model is about non adaptation and thats why many are offering the same exact stuff now as they did before the huge changes in SEO this year.

I've got wind of Mike's prices as well and last time I checked they were very reasonable.
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- nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  I've got wind of Mike's prices as well and last time I checked they were very reasonable.
  
  As in starting at $500/month?
  
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  Mike Grant 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by nik0
  
  As in starting at $500/month?
  
  That's cheaper than what I start at. I go no lower than $1,000 a month. Anything lower is simply not worth my time and or headache.
  
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JKflipflop

13 years ago

Some good names in this list here. SEO is an ever changing beast - so those who are experienced with Google's "mood swings" if I may say so, would be the best ones to look out for outsourcing your SEO to.

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Mike and Marc should just box and let that **** go. I'll sponsor it.

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GeorgR.

13 years ago

Most (90%+) of people selling services on forums are not even SEOs, they have no fricking clue of the process as a whole. They sell "backlink packages" and call themselves SEOs, working off some internet cafe in Pakistan.

You know its true.

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raywarrior1978

13 years ago

Well let me ask you this.

For example if you choose to go with Matt service and give him 5 keywords but all of those keyword have medium to hard competition, then it night not be worth it because after your site gets to page one for just one of those keywords, then who knows how long it will sit there. Now you have to look for someone who does monthly seo service.

But maybe if you pick 5 keywords and you analize the seo competition for the top 10 results, maybe better the top 3 results, and they haradly no backlinks, no page rank, no age domain, the keyword is not in the title, url, description and head, and then you give those keywords to Matt, probably not only would you get to page one super fast but you might stay there for a very long time and no one in the top 3 is building any type of backlinks and there on page seo is bad.

Am I wrong for thinking like that?

Not sure, I'm just going from what I have learn from here on other threads

Correct me if I am wrong, still learning the seo process...lol

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

But maybe if you pick 5 keywords and you analize the seo competition for the top 10 results, maybe better the top 3 results, and they haradly no backlinks, no page rank, no age domain, the keyword is not in the title, url, description and head, and then you give those keywords to Matt, probably not only would you get to page one super fast but you might stay there for a very long time and no one in the top 3 is building any type of backlinks and there on page seo is bad.

Am I wrong for thinking like that?

Given those conditions you could probably get a guy on Fiverr to rank you and save the cash. Real world you are not going to find that many lucrative keywords so bone dead weak.

That's cheaper than what I start at. I go no lower than $1,000 a month. Anything lower is simply not worth my time and or headache.

Thats some steep costing clubs. So how much PR do I get from Penguin clubs.

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Given those conditions you could probably get a guy on Fiverr to rank you and save the cash. Real world you are not going to find that many lucrative keywords so bone dead weak.

Thats some steep costing clubs. So how much PR do I get from Penguin clubs.

One round of clubs and you get an automatic PR17!

PS you think it's expensive? I think it's pretty damn cheap if each post is 100% unique handwritten, and not spun bull****.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Grant

PS you think it's expensive? I think it's pretty damn cheap if each post is 100% unique handwritten, and not spun bull****.

Nah man. I was just pulling your leg on the minimum $1,000 a month thing and the clubbing offer. Both are cheap in many circles so no qualm on what you do or the price you charge. From what I have seen you offer quality.

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I have heard a lot of gibberish from certain so called experts across the Internet that backlinking is dead. But we have now grabbed over 91 page one rankings for Warriors since the "dreaded" Penguin update. That's only from a couple of weeks ago. So don't believe everything you happen to read here on the forum about backlinking.

No experts have ever claimed Link building is dead. Just for balance to the advertising claims there have been several people in this forum that specifically tanked citing your service as well. Gottat take the good with the bad. IF you still do I would suggest you stop using spun content with links blasted through AMR. Theres no doubt whatsoever that in 2012 such backlinks are getting people tanked AND (just helping Marc to see the word this time) unnatural links notices.

The key is to use diverse amounts of keywords as your anchor text and to use as many different forms of backlinks as you can muster.

Extremely bad and I mean HORRIBLE advice. Using as many forms of backlinks as you can will have people using the very kind of spammy backlinks that are targeted by Google now.

Originally Posted by Marc_L

What you said was factually incorrect, nonetheless. I don't know why you can't just admit it?

Marc I said two things. you want to select one. I stated sites will be reported for unnatural backlinks AND the pages will be tanked to Siberia. the fact that you can't understand two things were being talked about with the word "and" clearly inserted unfortunately is not surprising to me given previous conversations.

Whats more you are being silly in trying to make a hard distinction. There have been by most estimations over a million notices sent out. Think they were all manual reviews?

Its quite obvious theres an overlap of detectable principles incorporated into the algo that are the same principles behind the notices. You are living in deep denial.

I'll leave it there - As Mike Grant indicated its getting old going back and forth with you. even more for the people reading it and definitely for mods. SO with great relief to regulars here I confess. I am bored with it. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post. If I need help running AMR I will consult you.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Marc I said two things. you want to select one. I stated sites will be reported for unnatural backlinks AND the pages will be tanked to Siberia. the fact that you can't understand two things were being talked about with the word "and" clearly inserted unfortunately is not surprising to me given previous conversations.

HAHA Ok Michael. I'll quote it again.
"Post Google's Penguin update 95% of what was and is being offered on WF will get you a notice from Google for Unnatural links and your site sent to Siberia."
Which "and" makes the distinction you are claiming?

Whats more you are being silly in trying to make a hard distinction. There have been by most estimations over a million notices sent out. Think they were all manual reviews?

Its quite obvious theres an overlap of detectable principles incorporated into the algo that are the same principles behind the notices. You are living in deep denial.

Even the obvious stuff where you were obviously wrong about you can't simply just admit that you stated it wrong and you knew that penguin had nothing to do with unnatural link notices.

Extremely bad and I mean HORRIBLE advice. Using as many forms of backlinks as you can will have people using the very kind of spammy backlinks that are targeted by Google now.

Proof is in the pudding Michael. We've started doing exactly this and have only seen our results get better.

Matt isn't saying get thousands of profile links and thousands of blog comments or thousands of (any other form of link) but a steady trickle of all sorts of links. It works and you don't know what you're talking about.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Proof is in the pudding Michael.

Yes it is - heres some of the proof thats in the pudding and notice this isn't coming from me or from your claims but from end users. You can argue all you want but its not a matter of your service in particular. Its that in 2012 some techniques are just plain dangerous to people's sites. Evolve, change. Don't run around pretending like theres no issues with conducting Seo as in the past. Anyone with even rudimentary knowledge of SEO can see through that tactic. Here are just two of quite a few others that you are leaving out of your "testimonials" in this thread. took a few minutes to find and like I said theres more for those who want to go looking.

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ping-fast.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ntinued-2.html

Matt isn't saying get thousands of profile links and thousands of blog comments or thousands of (any other form of link) but a steady trickle of all sorts of links. It works and you don't know what you're talking about.

To put it blunt - garbage and this time obvious garbage easily exposed by the fact that the algo has only been out about two weeks. A steady TRICKLE would have shown no such thing as a fact. You haven't even had the time to evaluate whether such a rise was temporary before a permanent crash yet. You just plain don't know how SEO research is done. the premature nature of your conclusions cements this is more about your sales than SEO fact of what works.

Add to that the asinine position that somehow Google looks at various links from a number of spammy link sites and boosts you based on your ability to use multiple variety of spam links further marks your advice as probably the crappiest I have ever seen.

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katarina1 13 years ago

I would hire myself because I am good at it. It would cost you but you would get 100% guarantee for keywords you want and you would be no1. on Google for all of them in about month or two.
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mattlaclear 13 years ago

I have heard a lot of gibberish from certain so called experts across the Internet that backlinking is dead. But we have now grabbed over 91 page one rankings for Warriors since the "dreaded" Penguin update. That's only from a couple of weeks ago. So don't believe everything you happen to read here on the forum about backlinking.

The key is to use diverse amounts of keywords as your anchor text and to use as many different forms of backlinks as you can muster.

Plus make sure your site is not overoptimized for your money keywords. In fact we're telling our clients now to remove all their keywords from their site and instead cater their content towards their human readers rather than the crawlers.

The results speak for themselves.
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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Yeah... no one.

None of the sellers here are "SEO's", they're just link sellers. Don't take SEO advice from them or trust their testimonials.

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

Most (90%+) of people selling services on forums are not even SEOs, they have no fricking clue of the process as a whole. They sell "backlink packages" and call themselves SEOs, working off some internet cafe in Pakistan.

You know its true.

This is officially the 1st time ever that I agree with GeorgR. Wo-ah!

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jimgk

13 years ago

the upside with warriors for hire and fiver gigs is that they are very affordable. the downside is that they WILL hurt your site and have been the cause for many site's dropping off the SERP ledge after googles feb and april algo updates.

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tristatemedia

13 years ago

GREAT THREAD
i would say mattclear (they are great)but i can not get a hold of him and his team. maybe they are loaded with work.

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Marc_L 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tristatemedia

GREAT THREAD
i would say mattclear (they are great)but i can not get a hold of him and his team. maybe they are loaded with work.

Sure you can. We have a few threads where you can get a hold of us.
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Jon Paella

13 years ago

Both Mikes (or even 3 of them), Yukon, niko and even Matt (who may differ from the rest),

One thing I wish is for you all to share more of your SEO knowledge and experience with all of us. Even through a WSO!

I think there are people who would really appreciate your wisdom on these matters. We've read a lot of WSOs (either directly related to SEO or products that talk about other stuff but which inevitably toucheon SEO - the latter being more subtle but perhaps more powerful in impacting our thinking on SEO) and all, and we know what's being taught out there. But we also are not satisfied. We want more advanced thinking even if it's contrary to popular teaching.

I know many of you (above names) think a lot of what's out there in the WSO market (either the theory or the actual backlinking WSOs or those under Warriors for Hire) is not good or even crap. I really want to learn from you all what you think are good methods. Thanks niko for some of your tips. But the rest, maybe you guys can write a a more detailed post or article on what you believe.

The truth is that many Warriors do accept a lot of what's out there. You guys can help all of us by really contributing to the discussion - not just writing posts (which I appreciate and I try to read what you all write), but maybe even putting something more detailed and systematic out there.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Paella

Both Mikes (or even 3 of them), Yukon, niko and even Matt (who may differ from the rest),

One thing I wish is for you all to share more of your SEO knowledge and experience with all of us. Even through a WSO!

I think there are people who would really appreciate your wisdom on these matters. We've read a lot of WSOs (either directly related to SEO or products that talk about other stuff but which inevitably toucheon SEO - the latter being more subtle but perhaps more powerful in impacting our thinking on SEO) and all, and we know what's being taught out there. But we also are not satisfied. We want more advanced thinking even if it's contrary to popular teaching.

I know many of you (above names) think a lot of what's out there in the WSO market (either the theory or the actual backlinking WSOs or those under Warriors for Hire) is not good or even crap. I really want to learn from you all what you think are good methods. Thanks niko for some of your tips. But the rest, maybe you guys can write a a more detailed post or article on what you believe.

The truth is that many Warriors do accept a lot of what's out there. You guys can help all of us by really contributing to the discussion - not just writing posts (which I appreciate and I try to read what you all write), but maybe even putting something more detailed and systematic out there.

I don't there is much magic and tricks in SEO, yes there are a few tricks and such when concerning onpage SEO and there are a few linkbuilding methods that I use that I keep to myself or it will get heavily abused.

Ranking tough keywords is not that hard, but it's insanely time consuming and/or expensive, as you know it's all about ROI.

If you invest $500 and you get $100/month back it's a good deal imo. But most people don't like to spend money or invest many hours. So if people buy a $100 package from me and they know what they are doing they can expect a $20/monthly return and in some cases MUCH more. Like local businesses that I ranked. Okay the keyword is maybe only 200 searches month for those businesses, but that are 200 real people, and if only 10 people decide to do business with them and buy a $1K+ service then the ROI is HUGE.

But when you have to deal with Adsense CPC and 4% Amazon sales that every single IM'er is after, yeah then a 20% monthly ROI is still pretty good imo.

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teachingking

13 years ago

Matt,

Any problem using your service on a new (less than a month old) EMD domain?

Thanks,
Aaron

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Michael,

You've got to be kidding me. You prove Nik0's point with your "analysis". One shouldn't expect more than what they pay for. We're talking a one time $99 charge here for crying out loud. You're talking about $3000 a month campaigns at the high end and $399 on the low, OF COURSE there will be more work involved for these types of campaigns. It's absolutely stunning how you think this is a point worth pointing out.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Michael,
You're talking about $3000 a month campaigns at the high end and $399 on the low, OF COURSE there will be more work involved for these types of campaigns. It's absolutely stunning how you think this is a point worth pointing out.

lol. As usual you completely miss the point. I'll respond to these because they are pertinent to the thread. Stunning how often you can't read simple English. The point is the customer ENDS UP PAYING REAL DOLLARS that makes the difference much less than it is. let me see if I can break it down simpler for you.

regular SEO $399
all inclusive

Cheap one off link builder = $99
Cost of doing keyword research = easily in time another $50-$100
Competition research = as per above lets say $50
On page changes = knowledge of SEO to do it and implementation time =lets say 100
additional link building packages (since YOU admitted more would be needed than your own) = $100

Total go figure = $399

and a good chunk of this IS ongoing - normally to stay ranking you will need to continue building the other links and services like yours offer "maintenance" prices.

So my statement would be simple to a child. First since the customer has to pay these things one way or the other anyway you have to add those factors up before you claim how different they are from the customer's perspective. There still are differences (the biggest being real ranking instead of often meaningless traffic at the bottom of the first page) but before you get to those you have to factor in the similarities.

So silly to have to explain that again but there you go. all wrapped up in a bow for you.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

lol. As usual you completely miss the point. I'll respond to these because they are pertinent to the thread. Stunning how often you can't read simple English. The point is the customer ENDS UP PAYING REAL DOLLARS that makes the difference much less than it is. let me see if I can break it down simpler for you.

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regular SEO $399
all inclusive

This was a monthly charge, not a once off so you lose already.

Cheap one off link builder = $99
Cost of doing keyword research = easily in time another $50-$100
Competition research = as per above lets say $50
On page changes = knowledge of SEO to do it and implementation time =lets say 100
additional link building packages (since YOU admitted more would be needed than your own) = $100

Total go figure = $399

I'll even give you these estimates and your point is lost because the 399 figure is a monthly recurring charge. You can't win here Mike. Bottom line is the $99 price point works for a lot of people and I mean A LOT. You also don't need the additional link packages when you buy our page one service as it is not needed at all.

and a good chunk of this IS ongoing - normally to stay ranking you will need to continue building the other links and services like yours offer "maintenance" prices.

Not if you ordered the page one service.

Yes it is - heres some of the proof thats in the pudding and notice this isn't coming from me or from your claims but from end users. You can argue all you want but its not a matter of your service in particular. Its that in 2012 some techniques are just plain dangerous to people's sites. Evolve, change. Don't run around pretending like theres no issues with conducting Seo as in the past. Anyone with even rudimentary knowledge of SEO can see through that tactic. Here are just two of quite a few others that you are leaving out of your "testimonials" in this thread. took a few minutes to find and like I said theres more for those who want to go looking.

Like I have already said some of our customers were hit with Penguin but this shouldn't be surprising at all. We've got THOUSANDS of customers Michael. Thousands. Most of our customers were not hit at all. Who on earth is not changing? Business as usual is not going to work, no kidding. Penguin especially changed that. You continually throw up strawmen and beat away at them for a paragraph or two when nobody is making points close to what you are saying. Point is you don't have enough data points to make any reasonable conclusion about a trend about our customer's sites. Yet you keep doing it.

To put it blunt - garbage and this time obvious garbage easily exposed by the fact that the algo has only been out about two weeks. A steady TRICKLE would have shown no such thing as a fact. You haven't even had the time to evaluate whether such a rise was temporary before a permanent crash yet. You just plain don't know how SEO research is done. the premature nature of your conclusions cements this is more about your sales than SEO fact of what works.

I couldn't care less. It is working and since penguin we've had around 100 page ones completed. PERIOD. Unlike you we've got many data points to make these assertions.

Add to that the asinine position that somehow Google looks at various links from a number of spammy link sites and boosts you based on your ability to use multiple variety of spam links further marks your advice as probably the crappiest I have ever seen.

Pudding, meet Michael.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

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This was a monthly charge, not a once off so you lose already.

I'll even give you these estimates and your point is lost because the 399 figure is a monthly recurring charge. You can't win here Mike.

Hopelessly lost as usual Marc. I have said multiple times there are differences. I've even listed them out not just in price but in services. I merely pointed out to NIk that they are not as high as the numbers would suggest because of the hidden costs to the client. Despite your nonsense there are ongoing costs of ranking for anyone that wants to stay there. You rather dishonestly skirt that. One time fee? Do you guarantee they will stay on the first page? No you don't so stop fibbing.

As for the them not needing other links You yourself bemoaned people thinking they can get it all from one service and that they should diversify. You just ran around the block to hit against your own self running the other way. Do you continue providing such links as well for the same one time fee?

So stop the dishonesty.

There are ongoing fees that you conveniently leave out if someone wants to continue ranking. they may not be as much as someone providing full service and egads actual ranking rather than position 8

but they are there hence you must add them before you start talking differences. Well if you want to be fair and honest I mean.

Incidentally having thousands of customers has nothing to do with changing the fact that many of them got unnatural links notices. Its the darndest thing with google - they will tank a site for unnatural links regardless of how many people have signed up with a backlink service.

Winning I don't know about but I am content either way that none of my customers have received such a notice. Its not as big a deal for adsense and affiliate marketers to get it but for real businesses it must be devastating.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

As for the them not needing other links You yourself bemoaned people thinking they can get it all from one service and that they should diversify. You just ran around the block to hit against your own self running the other way. Do you continue providing such links as well for the same one time fee?

I will respond to this. The customer from the thread where I said that was for a pure backlinking service.

If he would have bought the page one service he would not have needed to buy other links. The drip feed article service is being sold for $15 a month. It is not an all inclusive SEO package, never was meant to be.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

If he would have bought the page one service he would not have needed to buy other links.

Actually that might be true in one respect. Once you get an unnatural link warning like those threads I referenced you don't need anymore links. Your site is tanked. Outside of that you are just flat out lying. There are no links in all of SEO that will ensure that you will not need to continue acquiring links going forward. Stop fibbing for sales.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Actually that might be true in one respect. Once you get an unnatural link warning like those threads I referenced you don't need anymore links. Your site is tanked. Outside of that you are just flat out lying. There are no links in all of SEO that will ensure that you will not need to continue acquiring links going forward. Stop fibbing for sales.

I make enough sales without coming in here and posting responses to your nonsense. I also don't need to lie to make sales.

You want to compare apples vs lumps of coal. The guy you linked to wasn't on our page one service. You linked to a guy who was paying $15 a month for drip fed articles.

As for your asinine comparison between a $399 a MONTH service vs a one time $99 service the math is dead simple, genius. But who gives a crap? If you charge more then you should do more for clients. The clients should expect more. This is my point, expecting all of those extras at the one time fee of $99 is absurd.

I never ever never said that links wouldn't be required after a page one campaign was completed. How on earth can you come to this conclusion?

So, in conclusion you're comparing different things and acting like they are the same which makes your argument dishonest.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

I make enough sales without coming in here and posting responses to your nonsense. I also don't need to lie to make sales.

Anyone that claims that you can buy one package and never ever need any other links in SEO again is lying . Period. Deal with it. That was the point being made. I laid out the cost differentials and stated point blank professional SEO was more expensive but that before you can figure out how much more you first need to assess the ongoing cost of using the cheap service because going forward they are there. You flipped out your package and insisted thats all they would need - one off. Wrong. There are ongoing costs of keeping a rank. They will need more links to maintain so there are additional costs - Thats called fibbing

You want to compare apples vs lumps of coal. The guy you linked to wasn't on our page one service. You linked to a guy who was paying $15 a month for drip fed articles.

Both links? - crapola. Those were not the only two either. They were the only two I bothered to search and find. Furthermore in the last update Google made it crystal clear that they are looking at links within spun and unrelated content so stop running around blaming everything else clients might have done. We all have to adjust. Want to talk testimonials then you got to live with the negative ones not continue the long MO of crying them down. You can deny it and do the Macarena to slide out of it but its right there in their Penguin update that such links are targeted.

This is my point, expecting all of those extras at the one time fee of $99 is absurd.

I can't help you grasp basic logic. Leaving out the other costs the customer has to pay is absurd and a dishonest comparison. the point always was to add up the similarities before you quote the differences for the third time never to deny price differences. The guy paying $99 is going to have to get some other links or maintenance. The cost going forward has to be assessed. You are just playing games. You know exactly what I am talking about because you have offered maintenance packages which is more money over the $99. Not factoring in those additional and ongoing costs even after they are pointed out to you IS dishonest.

So, in conclusion you're comparing different things and acting like they are the same which makes your argument dishonest.

NO its just another example of your fabrications and hot air.

I never ever never said that links wouldn't be required after a page one campaign was completed. How on earth can you come to this conclusion?

How? Lets see your Post 77 when I said

and a good chunk of this IS ongoing - normally to stay ranking you will need to continue building the other links and services like yours offer "maintenance" prices.

you replied

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Not if you ordered the page one service.

Maybe just too much in sales mode to see you were denying the obvious? anyway far from being honest about the ongoing prices. truth is there is no one off link building package that will not require additional links. Its a myth thats propagated to sell products. SEO has ongoing costs no matter how you deny it.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Anyone that claims that you can buy one package and never ever need any other links in SEO again is lying . Period. Deal with it. That was the point being made. I laid out the cost differentials and stated point blank professional SEO was more expensive but that before you can figure out how much more you first need to assess the ongoing cost of using the cheap service because going forward they are there. You flipped out your package and insisted thats all they would need - one off. Wrong. There are ongoing costs of keeping a rank. They will need more links to maintain so there are additional costs - Thats called fibbing

First thing is I never ever never nunca said that all a site would ever need is a one time fee. Where did I say this? You accuse me of lying and yet you create these fantasies on what was said.

Both links? - crapola. Those were not the only two either. They were the only two I bothered to search and find. Furthermore in the last update Google made it crystal clear that they are looking at links within spun and unrelated content so stop running around blaming everything else clients might have done.

The HUGE problem here, Michael, is that if this was the case more than these few people would have been slammed. I'm not sure if you know how many sites we've worked with but it has been thousands. So it shouldn't be surprising that people's sites got affected with penguin.

We all have to adjust. Want to talk testimonials then you got to live with the negative ones not continue the long MO of crying them down. You can deny it and do the Macarena to slide out of it but its right there in their Penguin update that such links are targeted.

The evidence that "spun" content was targeted is not compelling. If you have any evidence besides the interpretation of their announcement please share it.

I can't help you grasp basic logic. Leaving out the other costs the customer has to pay is absurd and a dishonest comparison. the point always was to add up the similarities before you quote the differences for the third time never to deny price differences. The guy paying $99 is going to have to get some other links or maintenance. The cost going forward has to be assessed. You are just playing games. You know exactly what I am talking about because you have offered maintenance packages which is more money over the $99. Not factoring in those additional and ongoing costs even after they are pointed out to you IS dishonest.

You're insane Mikey. lol

I don't give a rip about favorably comparing our page one service with a full monthly SEO package. The point of the matter is that one costs less and the customer should expect less and YOU should expect less. I NEVER have said that after the page one service has been successfully completed then there wouldn't be any more need for any more work. This is asinine to suggest this Michael.

NO its just another example of your fabrications and hot air.

How? Lets see your Post 77 when I said

you replied

Sigh....

You won't believe me but I don't need to come in here to make sales. We make enough sales AS IS without me coming in here and responding to your posts. What I was saying was that DURING the active page one campaign there is nothing more for the customer to buy. I wasn't saying that there would never be a need to get any other SEO done on their site. In fact, I've stated that for $99 getting to page one is a good start for rankings and shouldn't be the end goal of a customer. The fact that you think I am saying that for $99 that this is all they will ever need to rank and keep ranked their sites is evidence that you don't have a clue.

My point was, and is, that with one $99 payment one should expect less work done on their site. And for you to compare a $399 a month campaign vs a one time fee of $99 is stupid. Some of these campaigns take months. If a campaign takes 3 months (or even more) to complete then you're at $399 x 3 =$1197 vs $99. Any maintenance link package would never cost $1100.

Maybe just too much in sales mode to see you were denying the obvious? anyway far from being honest about the ongoing prices. truth is there is no one off link building package that will not require additional links. Its a myth thats propagated to sell products. SEO has ongoing costs no matter how you deny it.

No its you assuming I'm trying to increase sales when all I'm doing is responding to your stupid remarks. Our sales are fine, I don't need to go into "sales mode".

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Thanks for the nice words in that post Mike!

Hey man more power to you. If you deliver some of the things you are working on hit me up for a testimonial. LOL

The HUGE problem here, Michael, is that if this was the case more than these few people would have been slammed.

Marc there is No huge problem because ton loads of people have been slammed not a few. I only pointed out two threads due to time and frankly the ton loads of people I hear from don't post threads so lets just drop the misrepresentations. Lots of link seller customers got their bell rung not just yours but rung they were and if you don't know it its because you don't like to hear it. SO who should people believe the seller of links in spun content claiming its not compelling (because it means they would have to change) or the Search engine that actually dropped the sites?

anyway.........skimmed over your post of denial but .........Officially bored. You denied what you stated in Post 77 and its obvious. When posts get that infantile I call for the nanny to take over but shes busy so I'll just call a halt to our back and forth. Good luck with the spinning AMR blasts. Thats quite an adaptation to the new realities.
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- nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  Hey man more power to you. If you deliver some of the things you are working on hit me up for a testimonial. LOL
  
  I will definetly do
  
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R. Shawner 13 years ago

I'd choose Mike Anthony as my seo consultant ( +1 for your ego).

Why? because what he's got to say makes by far the most sense in my personal oppinion. I'll edit this post later and add a few paragraphs to support my statement. As of now: One way ticket to bed.

~R. Shawner
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Mantasmo

13 years ago

How do you guys have so much free time to argue about nothing all day long? And to Mike - seriously, why do you care so much? There's a new **** post here (on WF) every 3-5 SECONDS when it's busy...

Also, backlinks hurting your website is a myth. A myth. So I was told.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

LOL Michael. I've had enough, for now. Have a good one.

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TheFBGuy

13 years ago

Hahahaha, you guys are funny...

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GyuMan82

13 years ago

Can't we all just get along

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mosthost 13 years ago

Originally Posted by GyuMan82

Can't we all just get along

They're fighting for their lives over the same scraps.
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GyuMan82

Can't we all just get along

All the Mike's in the SEO section get along famously and have a very similiar outlook on SEO so obviously the problem is with the rest of you

Even when the names begin with M but switch vowels on the second letter theres a clear problem - You guys need to look into that and make appropriate changes.

Oh-oh just as I spoke another M with the wrong vowel came along. lol

Originally Posted by mosthost

They're fighting for their lives over the same scraps.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

All the Mike's in the SEO section get along famously and have a very similiar outlook on SEO so obviously the problem is with the rest of you

Even when the names begin with M but switch vowels on the second letter theres a clear problem - You guys need to look into that and make appropriate changes.

Oh-oh just as I spoke another M with the wrong vowel came along. lol

Our brother Mike thinks you're full of ****. :p He must be an outlier. haha.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Our brother Mike thinks you're full of ****. :p He must be an outlier. haha.

Reading is as they say fundamental. He isn't in this forum so he isn't an outlier he's just out - just as you mostly are unless you are talking up your service or trying to shut up clients that don't give glowing testimonials. As for full of...... You guys certainly should know all about that.

But umm have a good night. I'm moving on to better entertainment for the evening
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mattlaclear

13 years ago

Guess what folks...we can all look forward to these exchanges every time Google tweaks their algorithm. I'm tuning out to watch Dog the Bounty Hunter. Good night Warriors.

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Zibblu

13 years ago

After the results I've seen from outsourcing SEO to Warrior Forum people... unfortunately I'd have to say "no one." I wish the results were anywhere near as good as all of the glowing reviews they get (hmmm?) ... not even close.

~~~

I posted this before reading the arguments here back and forth. I have to admit I am now curious about what Nic0 and MikeAnthony have to offer (despite their arguments with each other.) They said a lot of things in this thread that make a lot of sense.

Some of the other people arguing here ... well I have tried their services with terrible results. Lesson learned. If something sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

I built a niche network of over 80 blogs - all high PR, relevant domains with high quality unique content (themed properly - fitness, personal health blogs, health mag, family health, etc). All paid for by selling cheap SEO for about 4 months... go figure. Sometimes you just have to get off your high horse and get grinding.

As for web 2.0's - I have about 200 manually built web 2.0's from way back (like 2009). They're all still online AND indexed (apart from a few where sites don't exist anymore - shame). All I did back then was throw about 20k xrumer profile links and 500 BMD bookmarks at them (in batches of 20 properties). Not sure why they stayed indexed, maybe some of the links are still around? Maybe it's unique content and the fact that they have 3-5 articles/property.

Throwing comment spam helps increase PR over time. I tested this with a good list on 30 properties - 12 of them are PR2/3 right now, others all PR0 still. Manual commenting should help a lot more, just need another good VA...

I only do manual, niche related commenting to my money sites and blog network - those stick and work great! Comment on new articles - there's no need to look for aged pages. Most of the new pages get PR anyway (on good blogs).

Here's a funny story - I sell very few of my niche blog network packages, because most clients have such bad sites I have to reject them (far lower quality than blogs in the network). If they still want SEO work done we look at their sites, competition, keywords and restructure, change things up a bit, redesign... it costs a lot of money, most choose to buy 500 blog post blasts from someone else.

It's funny and sad at the same time.

edit: I also have a lot of failed projects, bad domain buys (at first), dead sites, penalized websites, **** backlinks, bad software buys, **** hosting accounts, unused crappy content, unused super-spun readable articles, failed authority site ideas/projects and a list of about 100 domains that I'm letting expire... So it's not like this stuff is very easy, lol.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Great post Bnetwork and good you show that it doesn't go without some struggling indeed. You are going fast though, congrats!

And yeah I whole heartly agree with that selling "cheap" services here did make it possible.
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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

All paid for by selling cheap SEO for about 4 months... go figure. Sometimes you just have to get off your high horse and get grinding.

One thing that has never been in dispute in this thread is that selling cheap garbage to newbies doesn't sell. Its no great virtue. Trying to characterize having some integrity in what you offer as High horse is a common tactic around here and whether you meant to or not you just fell into it. Someone asked before why the Mikes don't get together and offer a WSO. Thats easy. Good stuff rarely sells well in WSOs.

A huge part of the market wants it cheap, with a push of a button and very little other work involved. That pretty much rules out 95% of the most effective long term SEO tactics. Plus mainline SEOs tend to hate hype and....well... I won't get into that further.

and yeah I concur on the quality of sites. I get people PMing all the time with their sites and what to do, how it has great content etc etc. then they send over the URl and its a blog with a crummy theme, poor writing and very few signs of any real thought.

This is a serious network issue for providers and another reason why alot of them particularly those offering cheap services will get dinged over and over again. Its simply not credible that your legitimate PR4 authority sites would ever link to junk. The customer's site themselves without anything the network provider does screams the link just had to be bought. Seriously anyone linking to an average MFA , affiliate site is almost certainly selling links on some level and don't think Google sees it any different.
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- Mantasmo 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  snip
  
  Nah, you assume way too much. Cheap != bad. What I used to sell did help people rank and never got anyone penalized. It just wasn't a long term or a "complete" SEO solution, which is what many buyers expect for $30 a pop. When it comes to these ready-made SEO packages, it's up to the buyer to use them correctly.
  
  Pretty much agree with the rest. Site quality issue is a HUGE problem.
  
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Jon Paella

13 years ago

Someone asked before why the Mikes don't get together and offer a WSO. Thats easy. Good stuff rarely sells well in WSOs.

Mike, I wasn't thinking about you guys making money off the WSO so sales wouldn't matter that much as the desire to see the Warrior Forum community and IM community learn something useful and good

So it's more of a contribution to the community than anything else! But I'm sure it'll still sell because of the reputation you guys have in this sub forum.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Paella

Mike, I wasn't thinking about you guys making money off the WSO so sales wouldn't matter that much as the desire to see the Warrior Forum community and IM community learn something useful and good

Thats what the forums are for and collectively we drop a ton load of knowledge for free. I'll help out sick Warriors and those in some distress but by and large LOL no I don't see a bunch of Internet marketers as a worthy charity case. I can't speak for all the Mikes but I think they would think helping orphans in the Sudan, Feeding hungry children, Cancer research etc is a worthy charity not "the Warrior Forum Community" of people looking to make money online.

However its not just about money. No offense but frankly many marketers here and I mean MANY destroy everything they touch and the more free/cheap something is the more they destroy it. We could share wonderful resources for high authority links where you need to be respectful of the webmaster and within a few days the webmaster would have to shut down the page because of it getting slammed.

Its a general rule in life and in business that what costs you something makes you value it. So yeah it would have to sell not be a "contribution to the community". Price is not perfect and you should always try to help out the truly unfortunate but it helps to weed out precisely the kind of people you need to weed out sometimes. The course I offer now mostly to WF people and not in a WSO proved that point to me again. Due to price I ended up with a very serious set of guys (and one Gal) and they have been a pleasure to work with with only one refund request in a nearly year. I get a kick out of seeing what they do with it because they actually are serious enough to do something with it.

So it's more of a contribution to the community than anything else! But I'm sure it'll still sell because of the reputation you guys have in this sub forum.

I think reality will have to set in for a few more months before people totally abandon their push button/ one package fits all ways. Even on my own forum theres a little resistance and they are much more serious about SEO than people here. I told them months ago to stop auto spinning on your networks and a few were like - "Really? You can't be serious". Thankfully most listened and they all still have their networks still going strong.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Bnet my only assumption is that most cheap systems use automation systems to place links and you and I both know thats not a faulty assumption. Its the norm. I am sure you will disagree but those kinds of links have been weak for a long long time. The fact that it helped some people move up means nothing to me. I have seen sites rank with no backlinks given a very weak serp.

Thats one of the main reasons I consider testimonials of very limited value (Actually pretty close to worthless). People don't think it through enough but when they do the lights come on. observe -

Obviously the best results are chosen to be highlighted by the seller (And some try to bury any dissent from customers who have had horrible experiences) and obviously the weak serps are going to give the best results. So generally the sellers are going to highlight the best cases which for logical reason are going to be the weakest serps - Instantly skewing the reviews.

The fact that the customer for legitimate reason is usually not going to give the keywords means you can almost never guage what kind of competition they ranked over and hence the proliferation of almost meaningless testimonials.

Thats why I have always said Prove it in the serps not hide behind reviews where all the data is hidden. You can go to google and see the sites that rank and whenever you see any competition you don't see sites relying on those weak links and haven't for years.

Now why is there a disconnect between what you see in the serps and what you hear in testimonials? Obvious as I said , IN the serps you are picking decent competition in the testimonials its skewed to weak serps that in many cases the person could have ranked doing almost anything with links. That setup has allowed multiple poor SEO offers get ton loads of good reviews. We have all seen it.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I am sure you will disagree but those kinds of links have been weak for a long long time.

+ long rant.

This is what I mean, another random assumption. lulz.

I agree with you - they have been weak for a VERY long time and that's why I said in my previous post that how the customer chooses to use cheap SEO packages is up to him/her. Some of the links have never penalized anyone and never will - they simply stopped working.

You don't buy $30 services to rank your money sites forever. I mostly use them to boost web2.0's, because sometimes I simply lack the manpower to build high quality manual backlinks on the scale I do things. Simple as that. And, for the most part, it gets the job done.

Your whole rant about testimonials has nothing to do with my post (which you quoted). I've never sold SEO here. In fact, I don't sell any SEO or backlink packages right now, at all. You completely missed my point or were answering someone else?

As far as testimonials go - I don't read testimonials for <$100 services. I don't have to - I know exactly what I need, why I need it and HOW MUCH it's worth to me.

You seem to have long rooted issues/disagreements with some popular backlink sellers here, which I sort of understand. Most of them sell **** to newbies and use really dodgy sales tactics. Heck, most of the time they don't even tell you what type of links they're building OR provide reports. It's still a huge waste of time though.

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

...some popular backlink sellers here...

Most of them sell **** to newbies and use really dodgy sales tactics. Heck, most of the time they don't even tell you what type of links they're building OR provide reports. It's still a huge waste of time though.

+1

If I could clap, I would.

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Prowebstakht 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

+1

If I could clap, I would.

Hey MikeFriedman, I know that you are extremely good at what you do, and you are more than just a regular SEO guy as I consider you to be one of the Best SEO guys here on the WF! You provide very solid seo tips and educating our fellow warriors on SEO. "Power of the pen is mightier than the sword" is very true. This is the age of technology and information is within our fingertips so people should start to scour through information and go on fact finding missions on how SEO works and grasp the fundamental concepts. Learning white hat and high quality based SEO takes time but its worthwhile because it will only help you in the long term.
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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

This is what I mean, another random assumption. lulz.

Actually thanks for that it perfectly illustrates what I meant. You don't address yourself to the fact that the serps clearly show that what you said isn't factual and yes you were making a testimonial - a self testimonial of what you claimed to rank. It is what it is. Theres no assumptions whatsoever. Its all based on whats in the serps today and for well over a year - people are free to go and look.

Its important for people to know that as far as real serps those links haven't worked for awhile. It helps them to move on. Thats all

Look most people coming in here are not interested in a few bucks you make off some long tail weak serp. They want to make real money. thats the distinction lost on a lot of people. If you are hobbyist looking a little spare change or cash to buy a video game then sure twiddle with the cheap stuff. Its fine for the kiddies but for those who want to make a real go of internet marketing you've needed more for years.

Some of the links have never penalized anyone and never will - they simply stopped working.

Now there is an assumption. You know no such thing. Fact is Google doesn't care when you left the links. People have cried bloody murder in multiple threads that they got notices and tanked on sites they had done no recent link building to. You have absolutely no idea whatsoever that cheap links now won't hurt later. You are just putting words out.
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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Meh, I have too many posts in this thread already. Pointless. Have a good day/evening everyone!

edit - ****, I'll leave this here:

Mike, you're quite well versed in a lot of SEO stuff, but seriously... you'd need to sell over 200 of your blog network guides to make anywhere close to what some of us were making per month selling pligg blasts back in summer 2011. And yes, those links worked (for a while - but everyone involved made a ****load of money which was mostly re-invested into long term projects). Good days were 100+ orders, mostly repeat business. Most of that money went into bigger projects, both what I made and what my clients made. No one has any complaints, believe me. That's not a self testimonial, because I don't sell them any longer and have no plans to ever provide cheap SEO ever again.

Now, I do understand your frustration with dodgy providers, scamming newbies, false claims and all that. That's a whole different world though and I know very little about it - who the players/sellers are, where they sell and how much money they make... I know there are some in the WSO/Hire sections here - those are laughable.

But you have got to understand that some services don't need testimonials to get sales - you post a thread and you're SWAMPED with orders more than you can handle. You don't even have sales copy or testimonials there - just a list of features and a buy link. That's how you know it works. These are mostly buyers who know EXACTLY what they're buying and WHY (as I mentioned previously is the case when I buy links). They don't need to be hand held or educated.

Now I will leave you guys to it, have a very good evening!

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Mike, you're quite well versed in a lot of SEO stuff, but seriously... you'd need to sell over 200 of your blog network guides to make anywhere close to what some of us were making per month selling pligg blasts back in summer 2011.

Bnet you keep coming from it with a sellers mentality rather than a customers. Whats the point of how many Courses I would have to sell? Its not even my main line. I do Seo for businesses. Pligg blasts were garbage precisely because like much of those things people over sold it and blasted it the same sites to kingdom come. The flip side to what you just said is a confession to that very point.

And yes, those links worked (for a while - but everyone involved made a ****load of money which was mostly re-invested into long term projects).

Sept 2011 - worked for what? See you are back to the self testimonials again. Heres my problem with buying that - I am up to my neck in keyword and competition research each month for a long time before Sept 2011 and no I saw no worthy serps being dominated by pligg blasts. I don't doubt it killed in sales because Imers love hopping on to the latest fad and riding it like its the key to a pot of gold but I have serps I have followed for like nearly two years and nope none of that stuff has worked very good for just short of two years. Some weak serps ? Ok but like I said some serps you do almost anything and you will rank.

Heres the deal though if all these thing worked as late as 2011 and its all people were selling then why still so many people making nothing in IM and not getting much traffic ? You keep telling me how much money you made selling and you were only one person with hundreds peddling similar links . SO what happened to the customers?

I know there are some in the WSO/Hire sections here - those are laughable.

LOL...Alright I hear you but you know what? Thats kind of why I am responding to you. I am not just yanking your chain to yank it. Heres what I know about how that works. It takes MONTHS for people to stop using bad SEO. Look at where we are now. Clearly the game has changed but go ahead and look around - don't you still see the same old offers and sellers even in this thread trying to massage how they still work just do this or that. they'll hang on for months after the last guy says it worked for them and thats exactly why I am pointing out the evidence has been in for a long time regarding some link building. Only now its reached the point where the links themselves can not only work but be toxic. They are going to and already are saying - No just vary the anchor text more our links still work. NO mix up the spammy link with other spammy links and the variety of spammy links will help you.:rolleyes:

Shucks we still have some people running around with ANgela and Paul backlinks and how they still work. LOL

You don't even have sales copy or testimonials there - just a list of features and a buy link. That's how you know it works.

Bnet I'll call you on it because although you probably don't know that s EXACTLY how the sellers you just disparaged do it. They point to the sales numbers and then cite it as proof that it must work. Thats one of the main things that prolong Product launches even when the product reeks. Sales number mean nothing but that people will run down a fad like no ones business.

Thats big part of how the game is played. I realize where you are coming from and that you don't use that stuff anymore but My point is when people realize for how long something hasn't been working and then add that to recent changes they are better off and more likely to finally move on.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

This is a good thread for me btw, I don't know if its coincedence or not but normally I get 7 orders a week and yesterday I had 7 orders in 1 day lol.

Thanks for the nice words in that post Mike!

The more clients I get the sooner that I can provide even better SEO services. And yes, every client counts, doesn't matter whether it is $19, $69, $129,- or $5k

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Thanks for the nice words in that post Mike!

Hey man more power to you. If you deliver some of the things youare working on hit me up for a testimonial. LOL

The HUGE problem here, Michael, is that if this was the case more than these few people would have been slammed.

Marc there is No huge problem because ton loads of people have been slammed not a few. I only pointed out two threads and frankly the ton loads of people I hear from don't post thread so lets just drop the misrepresentations. Lots of link seller customers got their bell rung not just yours but rung they were and if you don't know it its because you don't like to hear it. SO who should people believe the seller of links in spun content claiming its not compelling (because it means they would have to change) or the Search engine that actually tanked the sites?

anyway.........skimmed over your post of denial but .........Officially bored. You denied what you stated in Post 77 and its obvious. When posts get that infantile I call for the nanny to take over but shes busy so I'll just call a halt to our back and forth. Good luck with the spinning AMR blasts. Thats quite an adaptation to the new realities.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Marc there is No huge problem because ton loads of people have been slammed not a few. I only pointed out two threads and frankly the ton loads of people I hear from don't post thread so lets just drop the misrepresentations.

But Michael, and this is a running problem in your logic routines, you've got only a few data points. We're working with thousands of sites and a handful of people got dinged. Don't you think that more people would come out if it is as bad as you're assuming? Bottom line I have a firmer grasp on our business and our customers than you do.

Lots of link seller customers got their bell rung not just yours but rung they were and if you don't know it its because you don't like to hear it. SO who should people believe the seller of links in spun content claiming its not compelling (because it means they would have to change) or the Search engine that actually tanked the sites?

I was hoping that you would provide some actual evidence instead of Mike Anthony speak.

anyway.........skimmed over your post of denial but .........Officially bored. You denied what you stated in Post 77 and its obvious. When posts get that infantile I call for the nanny to take over but shes busy so I'll just call a halt to our back and forth. Good luck with the spinning AMR blasts. Thats quite an adaptation to the new realities.

Because your mind creates these absolutely ridiculous scenarios. You assume the worst of your "opponents" and accept as evidence against them the slimmest of threads to condemn them. You then harp on this over and over like your assumptions are correct when in fact all you have is a bag of sand.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

But Michael, and this is a running problem in your logic routines, you've got only a few data points. We're working with thousands of sites and a handful of people got dinged. Don't you think that more people would come out if it is as bad as you're assuming? Bottom line I have a firmer grasp on our business and our customers than you do.

Marc - briefly because people are tired of the back and forth

I don't care how often you claim that it was just a handful. I know better. Lots of link sellers got hit hard and you have provided nothing but a self testimonial that you beat that wave. The reality is of the thousands of people who used BMR only a fraction named them in threads here - does that mean thousands were not affected? No. Most people just move on. You and I both know if people SEARCH

they will find far more examples but I am not going to take this into entirely talking about your service. Despite what you think it isn't. We've been talking all kinds of services in this thread.

Facts are facts. Mass spammy links from spun content is no longer a viable SEO stategy. IF you have not seen that then you have on blinders and are just looking to protect your business model from having to adapt.

Typical, you don't believe him because he's defended us. You should take a long hard look at this.

Typically you haven't learned to read yet. You should take a hard look at basic logic. I've said it countless times. A forum poster making a claim is just that a forum poster making a claim. I make ten million dollars a month. Believe me? Its forum talk. No one has to provide zip to back it up and on an IM board especially anyone taking income statements as fact is a fool. SO let me say it again. I don't believe income statements on WF AT ALL, They could say they use your service or they could Say Matt Cutts gave them an inside tip. Go ahead and look around I have never backed anyones income statements. You are as insane as you claim I am if you think anyone should.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Marc - briefly because people are tired of the back and forth

I don't care how often you claim that it was just a handful. I know better. Lots of link sellers got hit hard and you have provided nothing but a self testimonial that you beat that wave. The reality is of the thousands of people who used BMR only a fraction named them in threads here - does that mean thousands were not affected? No. Most people just move on. You and I both know if people SEARCH

they will find far more examples but I am not going to take this into entirely talking about your service. Despite what you think it isn't. We've been talking all kinds of services in this thread.

You've made claims against our service and this is what I am talking about. I don't care about your general comments about WF offerings.

Facts are facts. Mass spammy links from spun content is no longer a viable SEO stategy. IF you have not seen that then you have on blinders and are just looking to protect your business model from having to adapt.

Yes adaptation is the key to success and so far what we've done is working better than ever. You just don't know anything about what we have been doing lately and you're acting like I'm advocating zero change. Another Michael Anthony misrepresentation.

But I am still waiting for your actual evidence IN THE SERPS that spun content from backlinks is being penalized. The majority of our clients who has gotten spun content has not gotten penalized. All the analysis I've seen says that having "over optimized" anchor text pointing to your site is the major problem with penguin. I've not seen any evidence that spun content was targeted at all, as far as backlinks is concerned.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

But I am still waiting for your actual evidence IN THE SERPS that spun content from backlinks is being penalized.

Sigh - Are you serious about no proof? Your conspiracy theory that Google didn't really mean what they said you think requires me to do backlink research for you? Oh well....OK......Here go look. If you keep up on SEO issues you will know why I point to this serp. Theres a site that was there a few weeks ago everyone was talking about and its been tanked.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&output...w=1280&bih=643

Hint - its the same serp Google used to announce the Penguin update where it indicated the algo would now look at the source page of the link. Guess what? it was as spot three and is nowhere to be found now.So CLEARLY Google made good on what it said about checking the link source of sites that that links to you.

I know you've bought into this idea that Google is so stupid that all you have to do now is dilute your anchor text with more other spam and you will be good to go but they are a little bit more sophisticated than that and you have completely overlooked that to the extent that any of your results are in competitive serps having links with spun content will open them up to link spam reports from their competitor. In fact thats how anyone can figure out that you don't rank very much in compettive serps - if you did the sites would be reported at a quick clip.

On that point since I played your game where is the serps I have been asking for for months that shows that those kind of links rank sites in good competition? (will he answer or run away again?)

I don't care about your general comments about WF offerings.

Too bad thats what we are talking about. Its not a Laclear WSO thread and please don't try the self testimonial stuff again. No one knows what those 100 keywords are that ranked or even if the number is truthful. Could be "tulip seeds for the rich". You asked me to show my point in the serps so its your turn to show your point in the serps or be hypocritical.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sigh - Are you serious about no proof? Your conspiracy theory that Google didn't really mean what they said you think requires me to do backlink research for you? Oh well....OK......Here go look. If you keep up on SEO issues you will know why I point to this serp. Theres a site that was there a few weeks ago everyone was talking about and its been tanked.

LOL, so it has to be the spun content!? Hell, All you showed me was a serp but this doesn't prove spun content in general is getting smoked. Here's one of your problems, you accept the flimsiest of evidence when it suits you then question anything else beyond reason. If it's the site I'm thinking of (have to guess since you didn't provide it) it was still ranking in the top 3 after 4/24 for payday loans. Just like a virtually blank page was ranking number one for make money online. These most likely got cleaned up manually and has nothing to do with the algo.

I know you've bought into this idea that Google is so stupid that all you have to do now is dilute your anchor text with more other spam and you will be good to go but they are a little bit more sophisticated than that and you have completely overlooked that to the extent that any of your results are in competitive serps having links with spun content will open them up to link spam reports from their competitor.

So is the spun content factor manual or algo? Here you're moving towards manual.

On that point since I played your game where is the serps I have been asking for for months that shows that those kind of links rank sites in good competition? (will he answer or run away again?)

You didn't even send me one domain or backlink. How did you play my game? I couldn't care less about the other discussions we had months ago.

Too bad thats what we are talking about. Its not a Laclear WSO thread and please don't try the self testimonial stuff again.

I am only responding to direct references to our service and don't like you haven't made any.

No one knows what those 100 keywords are that ranked or even if the number is truthful. Could be "tulip seeds for the rich". You asked me to show my point in the serps so its your turn to show your point in the serps or be hypocritical.

You didn't show me anything close to what could be considered evidence against spun backlinks. The little information you did provide still leads me to believe (if it's the site I am thinking) that this was a manual action by google and not algo based. I can only assume.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

LOL, so it has to be the spun content!? Hell, All you showed me was a serp but this doesn't prove spun content in general is getting smoked............ These most likely got cleaned up manually and has nothing to do with the algo.

LOL. Yes I know . When the facts don't fit your theory go ahead and make up another conspiracy theory to massage said facts into place. Of course the algo took a while to work. For those who have been around the block thats how it ALWAYS works. It can take weeks to settle out. SO I'll leave it to the readers. believe Google with what they know and what we can see happened in the serps or go with the link seller that finds it convenient to use spun content so wants it not to be true. Either way the site tanked.

So is the spun content factor manual or algo? Here you're moving towards manual.

Its always been both Marc. Google has always used both. in fact they pretty much use the link spam reports to come up with data for the algo

You didn't even send me one domain or backlink. How did you play my game? I couldn't care less about the other discussions we had months ago.

Ducking and running - you just started you knew the serp so you know what I am talking about. I gave you a serp, you knew what it was so you are just fudging so as to back out of giving any proof in the serps yourself

I can only assume.

Yes and an additional assumption to slide out of evidence presented is just a duck and weave not dealing with evidence which you asked for and got.

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

anyway gents. Enough already. This going and gone into old territory. MA signing out
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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

LOL. Yes I know . When the facts don't fit your theory go ahead and make up another conspiracy theory to massage said facts into place. Of course the algo took a while to work. For those who have been around the block thats how it ALWAYS works. It can take weeks to settle out. SO I'll leave it to the readers. believe Google with what they know and what we can see happened in the serps or go with the link seller that finds it convenient to use spun content so wants it not to be true. Either way the site tanked.

Dude you'd make a ****ty scientist. The first thing is that your "evidence" doesn't prove anything. You've got a single data point and then you extrapolate from that? I have not seen any analysis of penguin that "targets" spun content. Apparently you haven't either or you would have provided it.

Yes and an additional assumption to slide out of evidence presented is just a duck and weave not dealing with evidence which you asked for and got.

You didn't provide one domain. I would LOVE to "deal" with the evidence.

You're delusional if you think what you provided PROVES spun content is being targeted by the algo. But that's par for the course I guess.

Anyway I did look at the site and here it is.

This is the backlink page.

Get Fit Using These Simple And Easy Methods. | Profit Monarch

The backlink is for the domain

dergimea.info

Which redirects to

checkintocash.com

Backlink domain has been deindexed which most likely was a manual action but that's irrelevant.

56 out of the 75 domains pointing to that dergimea.info site were deindexed. I'd wager that they got deindexed on or around 4/30 which is when checkintocash.com lost it's rankings.

Now if you want to argue that this site got smoked by the algo because it had spun content you have some facts to account for.

It ranked one week after penguin hit.
Most of it's backlinks were deindexed. (is there anyway to see when a site got deindexed?)

Given these two things it is simply impossible to conclude that the site lost rankings because it had spun backlinks. It's more logical to assume that it lost rankings because it's backlinks got deindexed.

In science you have to have a control in this situation there are far too many moving parts to think any one of them was the cause of the site to lose it's rankings.

I've dealt with the "evidence". Why is spun backlinks a better explanation than having backlinks be deindexed?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Now if you want to argue that this site got smoked by the algo because it had spun content you have some facts to account for.

Dude your clueless. I have multiple data points and the search engine themselves that state that penguin had to do with unrelated and spun content. Plenty sites with spun content fell. A whole pile of marketers who relied on it are crying all over this and other boards. The burden of proofthat content has nothing to do with penguin is on you to prove your theory. So what if you want to believe in your silly little conspiracy theory that Google said it was about spun and unrelated content in the very post they announced it in but oh no thats just Google trying to fool us. Thats a standard IM SEO ploy.

Give it up because heres the rub - whether its notices of unnatural links, or its the algo or its deindexing it STILL would prove that spun content is garbage going forward. So any which way you are fried or left trying to float some laugher like spun content on a network site doesn't make it more susceptible to link spam reports, deindexing and unnatural link penalties.

Don't even bother crowing about scientific approach to things. Scientifically it couldn't be clearer from the data of what has happened in 2012. Spinning content on a network or a service is garbage and the only people defending it are service providers that don't want to provide better content. Period.

So pick your poison -shimmy and dance with algo , deindexing or unnatural links notices. They are all telling anyone with half a block of common sense That spinning in any network or services is garbage SEO in 2012.

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scottmacair 13 years ago

Agreed - spun content is just asking for trouble and I wish people would move away from it.

When link building, I prefer to put out content I think may be valuable if someone reads it. Who wants to put time into spamming the net with spun gibberish anyway.

When looking at SEO services, if they use spun content, I am just not interested.

Nik0 - I looked at your product and appreciate that your offering something that has more quality than most of the SEO services on warrior. Personally I am always happy to pay more for quality.
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Bambu

13 years ago

I would stay far away from any SEO who says they understand Google's latest algorithm change. It is simply too early to know how the latest algorithm update works. The best we can do is examine what data we have access to, develop a hypothesis, and test it. This takes much longer than the two or so weeks that have passed since the algorithm rolled out.

You say backlinks in spun content are a no no? So what is the cut off? Would a 99% unique article get you into trouble? How about 80%, 60%, 40%, 30%, 20% uniqueness? Don't know you say? If that is the case, I would avoid blanket statements.

I, like you, and just about everyone else here has very little evidence to stand on. Any data you are relying on now most likely includes too many variables that you can not control (or did not take into account) and thus you can't make any solid conclusions (take it from an MIT science graduate- I understand the scientific method).

Please feel free to pull one sentence out of what I wrote above, use it out of context, pick it apart, and ignore the rest of what I wrote in your rebuttal. You are good at that.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Dude your clueless. I have multiple data points and the search engine themselves that state that penguin had to do with unrelated and spun content. Plenty sites with spun content fell. A whole pile of marketers who relied on it are crying all over this and other boards. The burden of proofthat content has nothing to do with penguin is on you to prove your theory. So what if you want to believe in your silly little conspiracy theory that Google said it was about spun and unrelated content in the very post they announced it in but oh no thats just Google trying to fool us. Thats a standard IM SEO ploy.

Give it up because heres the rub - whether its notices of unnatural links, or its the algo or its deindexing it STILL would prove that spun content is garbage going forward. So any which way you are fried or left trying to float some laugher like spun content on a network site doesn't make it more susceptible to link spam reports, deindexing and unnatural link penalties.

Don't even bother crowing about scientific approach to things. Scientifically it couldn't be clearer from the data of what has happened in 2012. Spinning content on a network or a service is garbage and the only people defending it are service providers that don't want to provide better content. Period.

So pick your poison -shimmy and dance with algo , deindexing or unnatural links notices. They are all telling anyone with half a block of common sense That spinning in any network or services is garbage SEO in 2012.

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Mantasmo 13 years ago

Wooo page five! None of you "SEO scientists" are scientists, drop that ****ing act lol. It's embarrassing. :rolleyes:
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- PimpinRice 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bnetwork
  
  Wooo page five! None of you "SEO scientists" are scientists, drop that ****ing act lol. It's embarrassing. :rolleyes:
  
  I second this!
  
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bambu

I would stay far away from any SEO who says they understand Google's latest algorithm change. It is simply too early to know how the latest algorithm update works.

You don't have a choice to stay away. I never offered you my services. You would have a point if in fact anyone ever said they completely understood the latest algorithm but no one did. SO actually you are the one making up the strawman. But you would have to be deaf and blind not to know some of the things it targets if you look around.

You say backlinks in spun content are a no no? So what is the cut off? Would a 99% unique article get you into trouble? How about 80%, 60%, 40%, 30%, 20% uniqueness? Don't know you say? If that is the case, I would avoid blanket statements.

Oh oh someone else is hurt that their treasured way of doing SEO has been challenged. You quoted an entire post where I mentioned three things - the algo, unnatural link notices and deindexing - now whos taking one line and running with it and twisting it?

We have had MONTHS of sites getting deindexed
WE are coming up on nearly a year of Unnatural link notices

We can't learn anything yet? Thats silly not scientific. SO to your question . why would I say I didn't know? Your whole "cut off" premise is weak. the answer is easy 100% no spinning. You are reasoning like alot of imers - how far can I lean over the line without getting caught. Then next update Google moves a line and you topple over. I mean God forbid that people pay $3 to have their articles rewritten (but people have been so brainwashed by link sellers they think they need thousands of links to rank with quantity over quality)

Any data you are relying on now most likely includes too many variables that you can not control (or did not take into account) and thus you can't make any solid conclusions (take it from an MIT science graduate- I understand the scientific method).

LOl. Appealing to your own authority is not the sign of a science grad. Appeals to authority are fallacious in any textbook on logic and the facts are with Google's algo you always have variables so you are off anyway. IF you had a clue about the scientific method you would know that you can never completely apply it to an unknown , always changing algo. By the way I am a neurosurgeon, a physicist and picked up my degree in constitutional law last weekend. You should all believe me because I wrote it in a forum.

In reality the three factors I mentioned are all related. Take unnatural links notices - Anyone that think s Google went through millions of sites manually is drunk. They utilized signals from links and content and sorry that data has been in for a long time and it does implicate spun content Want to believe in the fairy tale that they started over again and used nothing they learned in the algo be my guest. It doesn't matter. my point to you is the same as Marc -

Pick your poison

because if it isn't the algo telling you spun content gets you in trouble the data from deindexing and unnatural link notices (which we have had for close to a year) certainly does. Either way your beloved spinning is toast.

Don't be so hurt and offended. There are many people in this thread that have offered me hugs. I am sure they will oblige and give you the same offer. Either way SEO will go on.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

LOl. Appealing to your own authority is not the sign of a science grad. Appeals to authority are fallacious in any textbook on logic and the facts are with Google's algo you always have variables so you are off anyway.

Only when you use your authority to prove that you are right and the opponent is wrong. He didn't do that.

IF you had a clue about the scientific method you would know that you can never completely apply it to an unknown , always changing algo.

I think this was his point. He's saying that you're being far too absolute given that you can't be sure it wasn't something else that tanked that site. But this shows your scientific ignorance, which is fine I guess.

When you do have an unknown it is the scientific method that allows you to try and define it, to discover it. The scientist devises tests and collects data.

Although since the unknown is always changing it would be impossible to conduct any sort of meaningful scientific tests on it. To that, you're correct. But, this was Bambu's point.

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retsek

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bambu

I would stay far away from any SEO who says they understand Google's latest algorithm change. It is simply too early to know how the latest algorithm update works.

I would stay away from any SEO who doesn't. There's no big secret behind this algo update that's yet to be learnt.

So now that you know, you can stop saying that.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

I would stay away from any SEO who doesn't. There's no big secret behind this algo update that's yet to be learnt.

So now that you know, you can stop saying that.

People still think that Google will do some rollback cause there are a few skewed results at the first page while others think it takes like a month before an update is fully rolled out.

Guess they can't handle the truth after losing their sites or something.

Personally I have a dutch site where I used dutch anchor txt in english articles that were distributed at ALN and HPRS, in fact the exact example that Matt showed at his blog. Not surprised my site isn't ranking anywhere anymore. Add a lot of spammy links to that and a poor anchor diversity and then we cover about every topic that the latest updates were all about.

Last time I builded spammy links to that site was a long time ago btw so if new sites start to rank with the same crap it will only be a matter of time before the alghorytm gets triggered.

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retsek

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

People still think that Google will do some rollback cause there are a few skewed results at the first page while others think it takes like a month before an update is fully rolled out.

Guess they can't handle the truth after losing their sites or something.

Personally I have a dutch site where I used dutch anchor txt in english articles that were distributed at ALN and HPRS, in fact the exact example that Matt showed at his blog. Not surprised my site isn't ranking anywhere anymore. Add a lot of spammy links to that and it makes the decision easy to just buy another domain.

Yup, they keep hoping and praying there's a roll back. But it's not gonna happen.

If you're a real SEO, you build and promote in the right ways so you aren't always in chaos everytime Google rolls out a black and white animal from the zoo.

Just about everyone on these forums claiming they have an "innocent" site is guilty of something which they purposely do not disclose. Just take a look at the google webmaster forums which people post their URLs publicly -- I've yet to see a truly "innocent" site get hit.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Agreed, many times I work at micro niche sites and the worse part is that many feel real proud of their 1 page sites and make it sound like they are offering true value to the visitors. I don't know, but all I see is a crappy MFA site, perhaps people feel better about it when they make theirselves beleive in it or something.

I mean, 99 out of 100 time when people build a micro niche site they are in it for the money, makes no sense to fool yourself.
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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Dude your clueless.

If you are going to insult somebody at least take the time to spell correctly. I wonder if Google's bad grammar filter flagged this sentence.

I have multiple data points and the search engine themselves that state that penguin had to do with unrelated and spun content.

I like how you slip "unrelated" in there. I think this is a bigger problem than spun content itself. But you have to admit that your "data points" could all have something else in common. Over optimized anchor text backlinks. There is no way for you to say that the "spun" aspect of these backlinks, at least legitimately, had anything to do with rank decreases.

Plenty sites with spun content fell.

Plenty didn't. Now what?

A whole pile of marketers who relied on it are crying all over this and other boards. The burden of proofthat content has nothing to do with penguin is on you to prove your theory.

Very subtle Michael but I'm talking about spun content and spun content alone. I have never claimed that the content itself had nothing to do with Penguin. I think you're realizing that you over spoke about spun content itself, which is good.

So what if you want to believe in your silly little conspiracy theory that Google said it was about spun and unrelated content in the very post they announced it in but oh no thats just Google trying to fool us. Thats a standard IM SEO ploy.

That isn't what they said.

Give it up because heres the rub - whether its notices of unnatural links, or its the algo or its deindexing it STILL would prove that spun content is garbage going forward. So any which way you are fried or left trying to float some laugher like spun content on a network site doesn't make it more susceptible to link spam reports, deindexing and unnatural link penalties.

I know for a fact that "spun content" itself is not tanking sites. You have done nothing to disprove this. All you have is a typical Michael Anthony cherry picked uncritical bit of evidence.

Don't even bother crowing about scientific approach to things. Scientifically it couldn't be clearer from the data of what has happened in 2012.

You have no idea how science works then. You can't if you think that.

You've came up with a hypothesis and to support it you show one site. You're claim that your hypothesis best explains the evidence has been challenged by what I consider a better explanation of the data. You haven't touched this hypothesis except to tell me that I'm stupid. There is data that you don't account for, you cherry pick evidence. You'd be a ****ty scientist if you tried this in scientific research.

Spinning content on a network or a service is garbage and the only people defending it are service providers that don't want to provide better content. Period.

Michael said "period" so that must be it. HAHA.

So pick your poison -shimmy and dance with algo , deindexing or unnatural links notices. They are all telling anyone with half a block of common sense That spinning in any network or services is garbage SEO in 2012.

This is as good as I'm going to get I guess. You'll never admit that the algo itself is not targeting spun content as you claimed. You're covering your tracks here though which is what I'd expect from Mr. Anthony.

Bottom line, you're "evidence" can be explained better by what I am saying. The site in question had most of it's backlinks deindexed and this is why it tanked. The site didn't drop until a week after penguin which shows most people that it wasn't an algo hit based upon "spun content".

I'll leave this here, I'm sure you're going to come up with great stuff like "your clueless" or whatever. Mike's either super critical when looking at data (stuff that disproves his point) and super uncritical when looking at data that supposedly supports his way of thinking.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

If you are going to insult somebody at least take the time to spell correctly. I wonder if Google's bad grammar filter flagged this sentence.

Originally Posted by Marc_L

you're "evidence"

:p

I'm just trolling. This thread is so much fun, lulz!

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Marc_L 13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

:p

I'm just trolling. This thread is so much fun, lulz!

hahaha

:p
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Very subtle Michael but I'm talking about spun content and spun content alone. I have never claimed that the content itself had nothing to do with Penguin. I think you're realizing that you over spoke about spun content itself, which is good.

Logic isn't getting any better. No one is backing down or changing anything. The discussion has always been about content. Content of the link source. You know a way that spinning is done without content

: You got some new plugin for AMR that doesn't spin CONTENT?

Lol. anyway seriously is there anyone that believes ALL FOUR -

1)Spun content doesn't help network sites get deindexed and links removed.
2) links within spun content doesn't open you up to unnatural link notices?
3)Spun content is not monitored by the algo?
4)and spun content is not noticed by your competitor who can put a link spam notice and tank your site

I mean ladies and gents thats what you have to believe - ALL FOUR in order to go forward with spinning your link sources

meanwhile the internet is filled with more data points. Shucks even this thread has em.

I had 6 friends ...............all tanked with Unnatural Links Detected Penalties - when they asked for the links to be removed the answer was 'sorry we can't do that'

Go figure? imagine the odds of that? and the statistical anomaly of all those 6 friends getting hit off a service that allegedly just affected a hand full. What an unlucky group. lol Yeah right. Theres 6 more data points right there.:rolleyes:

Seriously though Marc - its a crying shame. Even BMR removed links. its the least you could do.

Only when you use your authority to prove that you are right and the opponent is wrong. He didn't do that.

Buttressing a point on the basis of an alleged education on a forum is an appeal to authority and fallacious. go read up. like others have said though drop the scientist garbage. clicking buttons in AMR does not make you a scientist....well maybe a mad scientist but clicking mouse buttons isn't going to cut it. ROFL.

This thread is hilarious. I give Bnet that.

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Bambu

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Lol. anyway seriously is there anyone that believes ALL FOUR -

1)Spun content doesn't help network sites get deindexed and links removed.

Two Issues: 1) This is the first time you mentioned networked sites; and 2) The networked sites (e.g., ALN, BMR, and HighPRSociety) were deindexed, not the sites that the backlinks that were embedded in the spun content were linking to (hide the ball much or did you just confuse yourself?)

In all of the rest of your posts I bothered to read you simply state that backlinks embedded in spun content will get your site deindexed, which I don't believe. Networks intended to manipulate rank that use(d) spun content were targeted and deindexed. I don't know of any site not belonging to a network that was deindexed strictly due to backlinks embedded in spun content. Do you? I don't think so.

2) links within spun content doesn't open you up to unnatural link notices?

ALL links intended to manipulate search engine rankings "open you up" to unnatural link notices. LOL. At the moment, it is not clear whether any/all backlinks embedded in spun content trigger unnatural link notices (questions of link velocity, uniqueness, and anchor text variation are also factors that need to be dissected from the issue of spun content). We can expect to learn if this is the case as the filter is updated. Maybe you are right; maybe not.

3)Spun content is not monitored by the algo?

I don't know the answer to this question yet. I am still not clear whether the spun content Google is referring is spun content on money sites (e.g., autoblogs) or backlinks embedded in spun content on third party sites. We will have to wait and see to learn with more certainty if this is the case.

4)and spun content is not noticed by your competitor who can put a link spam notice and tank your site

Again any fishy link can attract the attention of your competitor. That is the nature of this game. Links embedded in garbage content or with easily identifiable foot prints (spinning is one example, but there are numerous other examples) are easier to spot.

I mean ladies and gents that(')s what you have to believe - ALL FOUR in order to go forward with spinning your link sources

Buttressing a point on the basis of an alleged education on a forum is an appeal to authority and fallacious (Your ad hominem argument is also a logical fallacy. You crack me up, dude. I am assuming it has been some time since you took your critical thinking class...). go read up. like others have said though drop the scientist garbage. clicking buttons in AMR does not make you a scientist....well maybe a mad scientist but clicking mouse buttons isn't going to cut it. ROFL.

Whether I have two degrees in science (chemistry and synthetic organic chemistry to be exact) is irrelevant, the point I made above is accurate and still stands. Please feel free to read up on the scientific method and correct me if I am mistaken.

Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This thread is hilarious. I give Bnet that.

Thanks for the LOLs

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bambu

Two Issues: 1) This is the first time you mentioned networked sites; and 2) The networked sites (e.g., ALN, BMR, and HighPRSociety) were deindexed, not the sites that the backlinks that were embedded in the spun content were linking to (hide the ball much or did you just confuse yourself?)

No issues LOl you are the one hopelessly confused - the service providers were always what we were talking about. the customer suffers from deindexing because THEIR LINKS ARE GONE - deindexed. try and keep up. If you think the sellers are the only ones that suffer from deindexing then you are clueless.

In all of the rest of your posts I bothered to read you simply state that backlinks embedded in spun content will get your site deindexed, which I don't believe.

Hilarious. Again we were always talking about THE SERVICE PROVIDER and who cares what you believe. Links within spun content is a DEAD giveaway the links are unnatural and the sites with them DO get deindexed. Theres not a person here that has a clue about checking up backlinks that can't spot a network site that uses spun content in about two seconds. Because you need to do research on this in no way affects those of us who have done research and known this for well over a year.

ALL links intended to manipulate search engine rankings "open you up" to unnatural link notices. LOL. At the moment, it is not clear whether any/all backlinks embedded in spun content trigger unnatural link notices

its exceedingly clear. You are wrong and obviously wrong. Heres something they might not have covered at MIT :rolleyes: in regard to the scientific method- Intentions cannot be seen on a page . LOL - Its amazing the self evident things people have to have pointed out to them. So no not all links intended to manipulate search engine ranking will open you up -the only thing that will open you up to an unnatural link notice are links that LOOK unnatural. Does spun content look very unnatural? yes? DIND DING DING DING. one point awarded.

Whether I have two degrees in science (chemistry and synthetic organic chemistry to be exact) is irrelevant, the point I made above is accurate and still stands

Well I said I have three degrees so whats the point listing two (or any for that point)? Throw in some degrees for physics and zoology in there next time. Its a forum board so we all know it must be the truth. Whats funny is you trying to talk about the scientific method while trying to side step the data. Its one thing in regard to the algo but sorry "dude" the unnatural link notices have been going out for well near a year and anyone that has been involved in building even less networks than I have been involved with knows that spotting spun content in a network is THE EASIEST way to identify a network. The idea that that has not been proven yet because you don't know it is laughable.

Thanks for the lols

You are much too modest. Believe me you have been much more of an entertainment. So in truth I should be thanking you.

P.S. its much easier to highlight your responses if you take the time to learn the quote system.

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Bambu

13 years ago

This will be my last post in this thread. I have already spent more time than this discussion is worth.

There are countless small private networks that rely on spun content that fly under the radar. Who knows if Google will ever identify them. The big networks got too big for their britches and got hit. They had readily identifiable footprints beyond the use of spun content. This is where they most likely got hit.

It is still not clear how Google identified ALN, BMR, HighPRSoceity, and others. It certainly wasn't algorithm based and I am guessing Google most likely did not use the foot print that the spun content provided (although it probably did provide confirmation after the fact). There are easier and less taxing ways of identifying networks and deindexing them.

BMR did not use spun content, but it was hit.

Given the service in you are selling in your signature, I understand why you might want to come across as an authority on this topic. So I will end here.

P.S. I actually have three degrees. In a previous life, I was a patent attorney that did work in the pharma, biotech, and chemistry sectors (and dabbled with other technologies). So I also have a JD. I did not mention it, because it didn't seem relevant at the time.

I am disappointed that you got so hung up on my education that you did not have time to provide any evidence to support your theories. I think you would have attracted new customers if you posted an analysis along the lines of what the guys from Micro Site Masters researched, prepared, and posted:

Penguin Analysis: SEO Isn't Dead, But You Need to Act Smarter | Microsite Masters

Best of luck with your Warrior Forum persona.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

No issues LOl you are the one hopelessly confused - the service providers were always what we were talking about. the customer suffers from deindexing because THEIR LINKS ARE GONE - deindexed. try and keep up. If you think the sellers are the only ones that suffer from deindexing then you are clueless.

Hilarious. Again we were always talking about THE SERVICE PROVIDER and who cares what you believe. Links within spun content is a DEAD giveaway the links are unnatural and the sites with them DO get deindexed. Theres not a person here that has a clue about checking up backlinks that can't spot a network site that uses spun content in about two seconds. Because you need to do research on this in no way affects those of us who have done research and known this for well over a year.

its exceedingly clear. You are wrong and obviously wrong. Heres something they might not have covered at MIT :rolleyes: in regard to the scientific method- Intentions cannot be seen on a page . LOL - Its amazing the self evident things people have to have pointed out to them. So no not all links intended to manipulate search engine ranking will open you up -the only thing that will open you up to an unnatural link notice are links that LOOK unnatural. Does spun content look very unnatural? yes? DIND DING DING DING. one point awarded.

Well I said I have three degrees so whats the point listing two (or any for that point)? Throw in some degrees for physics and zoology in there next time. Its a forum board so we all know it must be the truth. Whats funny is you trying to talk about the scientific method while trying to side step the data. Its one thing in regard to the algo but sorry "dude" the unnatural link notices have been going out for well near a year and anyone that has been involved in building even less networks than I have been involved with knows that spotting spun content in a network is THE EASIEST way to identify a network. The idea that that has not been proven yet because you don't know it is laughable.

Your much too modest. Believe me you have been much more of an entertainment. So in truth I should be thanking you.

P.S. its much easier to highlight your responses if you take the time to learn the quote system.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Go figure? imagine the odds of that? and the statistical anomaly of all those 6 friends getting hit off a service that allegedly just affected a hand full. What an unlucky group. lol Yeah right. Theres 6 more data points right there.:rolleyes:

This is confirmation bias showing clearly. You accept any evidence AGAINST your opponent without any scrutiny whatsoever then take any evidence that supports your opponent and run it through a skeptical grinder that nothing could ever come out looking true. It's amazing really and this shows it better than anything else you have said.

Buttressing a point on the basis of an alleged education on a forum is an appeal to authority and fallacious.

The point wasn't in dispute.

:p You have no idea how these fallacies work do you?

go read up. like others have said though drop the scientist garbage.

Drop the absolute statements then.

clicking buttons in AMR does not make you a scientist

You realize that I didn't appeal to my authority right? That was somebody else. I didn't claim to be a scientist.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

I thought you guys made your end statement?
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

This is confirmation bias showing clearly. You accept any evidence AGAINST your opponent without any scrutiny whatsoever then take any evidence that supports your opponent and run it through a skeptical grinder

You mean we can only believe some testimonials?

I believe it because as I a said before I have similar data. its called correlation. This is your bias MO. You cite testimonial constantly but try and run all over the Internet trying to squelch the sizable testimonials that say what you dont want them to say.

You realize that I didn't appeal to my authority right?

Umm who said you did? I was referring to all the science lectures like we all don't know. Basically all the hand waving to avoid a simple , verifiable confirmed fact - spun content helps to identify an unnatural link.

Originally Posted by Bambu

There are countless small private networks that rely on spun content that fly under the radar.................. They had readily identifiable footprints beyond the use of spun content. This is where they most likely got hit.

terribly poor logic and more fallacious reasoning. The fact that some sites/networks survive "flying under the radar" with spun content in no way eliminates spun content. sheesh thats like watching traffic and seeing some cars driving 90 miles an hour with no flashing lights behind them and then concluding that speeding has nothing to do with being pulled over by a cop. MIT? Really? Did anyone in this thread say that spun content was the only thing that could get a network dinged? BMR used short garbage articles on multiple subjects with lots of links. Thats ONE way to identify a network, Spun content is another. Its a clear footprint and its hilarious how you jump over it staring you in the face to get away from the obvious while talking about the scientific method. Ignoring footprints/data is the exact opposite of any kind of scientific approach.

I am disappointed that you got so hung up on my education that you did not have time to provide any evidence to support your theories.

LOL. I didn't get hung up. You have now posted what? three times and you bring it up in every post like for some odd reason you think that other people in WF don't have degrees, gone through college and even been trained in science. Its a FACT that spun content helps to identify a network. Its something I and others have tested and evaluated for well over a year. It couldn't be more established under a "scientific method"

Unravelling a network takes no rocket scientist ( include that degree the next time you post

). Its easy . verifiable and repeatable. once you find one site with spun content you cross check all the backlinks and you unravel an entire network. I've done it many times so have multiple people in this thread. All that data has been in for over a year.

if you posted an analysis along the lines of what the guys from Micro Site Masters researched, prepared, and posted:

Most of us have read it already from another thread but thanks fo r citing that because it shows clearly how bogus your objections are and were. You claim its too early to know much about the algo but then recommend to me an article drawing conclusions wrote over a week ago

lol 180s like that always expose peoples real issues. You have a history of buying spammy links and you are offended.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You mean we can only believe some testimonials?

I believe it because as I a said before I have similar data. its called correlation. This is your bias MO. You cite testimonial constantly but try and run all over the Internet trying to squelch the sizable testimonials that say what you dont want them to say.

"sizable"? lol

Hey believe what you want but it's plain to see that you have a double standard. Any of our clients comes in here saying that they like what we do for them then you attack them. Any clients come in here that aren't happy and you welcome their claims with open arms. You're not consistent.

Umm who said you did? I was referring to all the science lectures like we all don't know. Basically all the hand waving to avoid a simple , verifiable confirmed fact - spun content helps to identify an unnatural link.

Moving goal posts fallacy. We were talking about penguin but this is typical of you. You're original statement didn't hold water and your "evidence" in support of it was absurdly inadequate. (unless one applies Michael Anthony confirmation bias filters).

I was making a point about what evidence you accept 100% without question and which evidence you run through a skeptic wringer that always makes it look like its wrong. This Michael Anthony Trait is what would make you a lousy scientist.

Another point here. I think "spun content" is being used too loosely. You can have spun content and not have it be garbage. Badly spun content is another thing entirely. It looks like when you say "spun content" you really mean "poorly spun content".

Unravelling a network takes no rocket scientist ( include that degree the next time you post

). Its easy . verifiable and repeatable. once you find one site with spun content you cross check all the backlinks and you unravel an entire network. I've done it many times so have multiple people in this thread. All that data has been in for over a year.

I think you could do this even if the content was 100% unique. A bunch of articles with a link to the same site made on or around the same day on multiple blogs. It isn't the spun content that is the problem.

Most of us have read it already from another thread but thanks fo r citing that because it shows clearly how bogus your objections are and were. You claim its too early to know much about the algo but then recommend to me an article drawing conclusions wrote over a week ago

They don't make any hard conclusions Michael. They present the data that they have and make some observations about it. By the way you misrepresented what bambu said. He didn't say anything about "much" of the algo but the algo itself. These are entirely different things.

Originally Posted by bambu

I would stay far away from any SEO who says they understand Google's latest algorithm change. It is simply too early to know how the latest algorithm update works. The best we can do is examine what data we have access to, develop a hypothesis, and test it. This takes much longer than the two or so weeks that have passed since the algorithm rolled out.

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scottmacair 13 years ago

From the posts i've read there is nobody active on Warrior who understands SEO better then Mike Anthony. I don't know Mike and i'm not connected with him in any way but I do know he speaks a lot of sense.

I had 6 friends all using Matt LaClear's services and their sites all tanked with Unnatural Links Detected Penalties - when they asked for the links to be removed the answer was 'sorry we can't do that'
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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Thanks for the nice words in that post Mike!

Hey man more power to you. If you deliver some of the things you are working on hit me up for a testimonial. LOL

The HUGE problem here, Michael, is that if this was the case more than these few people would have been slammed.

Marc there is No huge problem because ton loads of people have been slammed not a few. I only pointed out two threads and frankly the ton loads of people I hear from don't post thread so lets just drop the misrepresentations. Lots of link seller customers got their bell rung not just yours but rung they were and if you don't know it its because you don't like to hear it. SO who should people believe the seller of links in spun content claiming its not compelling (because it means they would have to change) or the Search engine that actually tanked the sites?

anyway.........skimmed over your post of denial but .........Officially bored. You denied what you stated in Post 77 and its obvious. When posts get that infantile I call for the nanny to take over but shes busy so I'll just call a halt to our back and forth. Good luck with the spinning AMR blasts. Thats quite an adaptation to the new realities.
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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Couldn't reply earlier - busy day. And WF is SLOW today!

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Heres the deal though if all these thing worked as late as 2011 and its all people were selling then why still so many people making nothing in IM and not getting much traffic ? You keep telling me how much money you made selling and you were only one person with hundreds peddling similar links . SO what happened to the customers?

I get your point, and again keep in mind I have no idea what sort of customers you get here on Warrior, but my customers made a lot of money ranking sites and flipping them. I know it.

BUT - I do understand where you're coming from, believe me. We moved on to other stuff, because the plan was always to build a real business and provide long lasting value to customers. I saw an opportunity to help make it happen and went for it. So did my clients.

Clearly the game has changed but go ahead and look around - don't you still see the same old offers and sellers even in this thread trying to massage how they still work just do this or that.

True. Not something I want to be a part of though - selling to gullible newbies that don't know what they're doing. Not my thing.

Bnet I'll call you on it because although you probably don't know that s EXACTLY how the sellers you just disparaged do it. They point to the sales numbers and then cite it as proof that it must work.

Yea I see this tactic used a lot - ebooks, backlinks, software, blah... But, once again, my clients stopped buying and I stopped selling (when things stopped working, lulz).

My point is when people realize for how long something hasn't been working and then add that to recent changes they are better off and more likely to finally move on.

Sure. Everyone should have a business plan of some kind before starting out. This is exactly what happens when people refuse to think for themselves and merely follow crafty sales letters promising #1 rankings or $100 days for a one-time-only $17 investment.

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rafiseo

Banned 13 years ago

If you want to hire one guy who would not tank your site and provide you real SEO Service(when I say real SEO service I mean TRUE SEO service, not just link building or talking like Einstein knowing near of nothing) I would recommend you to hire Mike Friedman.

Mike is not like other so called SEO guys but he is a hyper knowledgeable well you would be able to know it from his posts.

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GyuMan82

13 years ago

So after reading through this thread and yes there are a lot of good points here but I think what everyone is forgetting is that there are different markets in this world of "SEO Services".

There are a lot of people I have respect for in this thread, and I am sure everyone here provides SEO services that are great, but you guys are really comparing Apples and Oranges.

People in this thread are comparing "high end" and "low end" services as if they are equal, but they are not.

Of course everyone would LOVE to have a service that only created high PR quality homepage links, well-written manual guest blogging, low OBL high PR manual links on relevant niche topics etc, however all this comes with a high price. Whether or not that merits the cost is a business decision the individual webmaster has to make.

It's sort of like asking someone that if they could have a free car, which would they pick, a Ferrari or a Kia? Of course if it was free most people would choose the Ferrari all things being equal. But in the real world these things are not possible.

In internet marketing there are TONs of ways to make money, and there are high end and low end SEO services. Maybe if you have only 1 website that is your "baby", hiring someone for big $$$ each month may be a worthwhile investment.

However what about the guy who has hundreds of micro-niche sites that pops off a clickbank sale maybe once a week? Investing $1,000/month per site is probably not an option for him. To be honest people in these niches can probably get by with "Trash SEO Services". Is his business model necessarily wrong? Of course not. You can build a TON of micro-niche sites and rank them with "Trash SEO Services" and make bank. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Like any industry there are more than one way to make money. For example in the restaurant industry you can own a fine dining establishment or a McDonald's. If both makes money, who cares? Recognize there is more than one way to get to where you want to go.

Different strokes for different folks.

At the end of the day it is all about risk vs. reward. There is a place in the SEO world for both.

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TheFBGuy 13 years ago

Hahaha, okay people, this is getting ridiculous. Spending hours arguing and debating while the OP has packed up and left? LOL.

You should be spending that time and energy focusing on your sites/businesses instead. But hey, what do I know, lol.
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GyuMan82

Of course not. You can build a TON of micro-niche sites and rank them with "Trash SEO Services" and make bank. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
.........Different strokes for different folks.At the end of the day it is all about risk vs. reward. There is a place in the SEO world for both.

Gyu wake up and smell the coffee. I've heard that argument for a long time but it no longer has even a small amount of traction. Why? because There are now links that can hurt your site. Most of us have laid our cards on the table so for full disclosure you sell packages with some of those weak links so you have some vested interest in their viability.

Lets get down to the dirty facts. cheap link services are cheap because they don't require much work to place. For the most part they utilize automation software which utilizes specific kinds of links. They are not cheap because of the goodness of the seller's heart. So lets not pretend like its cheap versus expensive. Its links that software can drop fast as opposed to other links.

the real problem is that those kinds of links are PRECISELY the kind of links Google has been gunning for and whether people want to admit or not in the last 9-10 months they've taken probably the biggest bite they ever have. So no its no longer different strokes for different folks. The "folks" over at Google now have one stroke for webmasters utilizing those kinds of links and from the crying on the forums its not a nice stroke.

We are at the critical point where as providers we evolve or pretend that the same ole same ole works if we put some lipstick on it. From what I am seeing alot of providers made their choice and are just visiting the cosmetic counter to see what shades are available.

P.S. the guy with the hundreds of Micro niche sites will soon be a fossil. Its a lousy business model going forward. One of the huge differences between a link seller and a SEO is that we have to make the customer aware of certain realities like that.

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GyuMan82

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Gyu wake up and smell the coffee. I've heard that argument for a long time but it no longer has even a small amount of traction. Why? because There are now links that can hurt your site. Most of us have laid our cards on the table so for full disclosure you sell packages with some of those weak links so you have some vested interest in their viability.

Lets get down to the dirty facts. cheap link services are cheap because they don't require much work to place. For the most part they utilize automation software which utilizes specific kinds of links. They are not cheap because of the goodness of the seller's heart. So lets not pretend like its cheap versus expensive. Its links that software can drop fast as opposed to other links.

the real problem is that those kinds of links are PRECISELY the kind of links Google has been gunning for and whether people want to admit or not in the last 9-10 months they've taken probably the biggest bite they ever have. So no its no longer different strokes for different folks. The "folks" over at Google now have one stroke for webmasters utilizing those kinds of links and from the crying on the forums its not a nice stroke.

We are at the critical point where as providers we evolve or pretend that the same ole same ole works if we put some lipstick on it. From what I am seeing alot of providers made their choice and are just visiting the cosmetic counter to see what shades are available.

P.S. the guy with the hundreds of Micro niche sites will soon be a fossil. Its a lousy business model going forward. One of the huge differences between a link seller and a SEO is that we have to make the customer aware of certain realities like that.

Again lets agree to disagree. We will probably never agree, but I respect your opinion.

Good day to you sir!

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raywarrior1978

13 years ago

Well just went into fiverr the other day and both of my sites are now on page 1. It works better than GyuMan backlinks a I purchased a few months ago. He was a nice guy to talk to though and he did issue me a refund. So I thank him for that. I know most of the fiverr gigs are sucks, but what I did was go into the warrior for hire section and looked at the backlink packages this seo people were offering and I just copy their campaign, went into fiverr and purchased a few wiki link, social bookmarks, edu, web 2.0 and video and wholaa now my sites are on page 1. Oh yeah I also copy and pasted all of my links and pay someone on fiverr that has a linklicious account to drip feed all of my links. My site is getting higher today it was position 3 and i see some adsense clicks. Hooray, what a clever trick

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

Well just went into fiverr the other day and both of my sites are now on page 1. It works better than GyuMan backlinks a I purchased a few months ago. He was a nice guy to talk to though and he did issue me a refund. So I thank him for that. I know most of the fiverr gigs are sucks, but what I did was go into the warrior for hire section and looked at the backlink packages this seo people were offering and I just copy their campaign, went into fiverr and purchased a few wiki link, social bookmarks, edu, web 2.0 and video and wholaa now my sites are on page 1. Oh yeah I also copy and pasted all of my links and pay someone on fiverr that has a linklicious account to drip feed all of my links. My site is getting higher today it was position 3 and i see some adsense clicks. Hooray, what a clever trick

This position 3, was that for the kw you sended to me a few days ago? The 2 word one?

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teachingking

13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

Well just went into fiverr the other day and both of my sites are now on page 1. It works better than GyuMan backlinks a I purchased a few months ago. He was a nice guy to talk to though and he did issue me a refund. So I thank him for that. I know most of the fiverr gigs are sucks, but what I did was go into the warrior for hire section and looked at the backlink packages this seo people were offering and I just copy their campaign, went into fiverr and purchased a few wiki link, social bookmarks, edu, web 2.0 and video and wholaa now my sites are on page 1. Oh yeah I also copy and pasted all of my links and pay someone on fiverr that has a linklicious account to drip feed all of my links. My site is getting higher today it was position 3 and i see some adsense clicks. Hooray, what a clever trick

You mind sharing which fiverr gigs you purchased?

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raywarrior1978

13 years ago

Originally Posted by teachingking

You mind sharing which fiverr gigs you purchased?

seosupremacy will manually Build 150 High PR Backlinks for $5wuname will add 600+ social bookmarks in 24 HOURS to your sites, up to 3 sites, and add links to Linklicious for $5

create 850+ TR Wiki backlinks from 850 different sites ,use powerfull strategy

create 20 dofollow profile backlinks from edu and gov domains

Someone says they work temporarily but I will be the judge of that
As time passes by will see if their statement is true and holds up.

Fiverr gigs are not all bad. You just have to test and see which ones work and stick with those. Right now I am just testing. So far so good. The only seo person I would trust anyways is Matt Cutts which is one of the main Google engineers, but of course he is not thereto rank your site but to give you advice on what google is looking for and their guidelines.

Don't be mad at me for testing, you might be right and within time I might get penalized but like I said I am just testing it out and I am choosing the gigs carefully and by rating and reviews. I am not buying 1000's of backlinks blast or pyramids. I am sticking to low counts and drip feed to leave less footprint

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

seosupremacy will manually Build 150 High PR Backlinks for $5wuname will add 600+ social bookmarks in 24 HOURS to your sites, up to 3 sites, and add links to Linklicious for $5

create 850+ TR Wiki backlinks from 850 different sites ,use powerfull strategy

create 20 dofollow profile backlinks from edu and gov domains

Someone says they work temporarily but I will be the judge of that
As time passes by will see if their statement is true and holds up.

Fiverr gigs are not all bad. You just have to test and see which ones work and stick with those. Right now I am just testing. So far so good. The only seo person I would trust anyways is Matt Cutts which is one of the main Google engineers, but of course he is not thereto rank your site but to give you advice on what google is looking for and their guidelines.

Don't be mad at me for testing, you might be right and within time I might get penalized but like I said I am just testing it out and I am choosing the gigs carefully and by rating and reviews. I am not buying 1000's of backlinks blast or pyramids. I am sticking to low counts and drip feed to leave less footprint

Dude serious, this is definetly NOT the way to go.

100's of this, 100's of that. Please don't use that crap on the site that you showed me in PM okay? You will be sorry, trust me!

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

seosupremacy will manually Build 150 High PR Backlinks for $5wuname will add 600+ social bookmarks in 24 HOURS to your sites, up to 3 sites, and add links to Linklicious for $5

create 850+ TR Wiki backlinks from 850 different sites ,use powerfull strategy

create 20 dofollow profile backlinks from edu and gov domains

Someone says they work temporarily but I will be the judge of that
As time passes by will see if their statement is true and holds up.

Fiverr gigs are not all bad. You just have to test and see which ones work and stick with those. Right now I am just testing. So far so good. The only seo person I would trust anyways is Matt Cutts which is one of the main Google engineers, but of course he is not thereto rank your site but to give you advice on what google is looking for and their guidelines.

Don't be mad at me for testing, you might be right and within time I might get penalized but like I said I am just testing it out and I am choosing the gigs carefully and by rating and reviews. I am not buying 1000's of backlinks blast or pyramids. I am sticking to low counts and drip feed to leave less footprint

At least had copied it from my salesthread man, this what you've just done is exactly what everyone is referring to when it comes down to crappy links that hurt now or in the very near future.

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shanekel

13 years ago

What does this mean ( A site been tanked)

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by shanekel

What does this mean ( A site been tanked)

That means that a site lost all it's rankings.
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- raywarrior1978 13 years ago
  
  NikO no this was a test on 2 different sites I have.
  
  I will test the same on the site I mention to you but this one will required more as is a more competitive keyword.
  
  But so far so good with the fiverr gigs. I chosed them by rating and look at the reviews also.
  
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- raywarrior1978 13 years ago
  
  No Nik0, this was a test I did on my other 2 sites. The fiverr gigs actually work.
  
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  nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by raywarrior1978
  
  No Nik0, this was a test I did on my other 2 sites. The fiverr gigs actually work.
  
  Yes there are definetly good fiverr gigs, although you have to be carefull, 500 forumposts for example still work pretty well (not to confuse with forum profiles) but they are way too spammy imo to point directly at your site.
  
  I am now testing them to see what effect they have to use as buffer, for example:
  
  Tier1: web2.0
  Tier2: bookmarks
  Tier3: forumposts
  
  And also running a test of:
  
  Tier1: web2.0
  Tier2: forumposts
  
  Let's see what that will do!
  
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  Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by raywarrior1978
  
  No Nik0, this was a test I did on my other 2 sites. The fiverr gigs actually work.
  
  Work for what and work how? This is the huge problem with these reports and testimonials. Its highly selective. By your own admission you only did this "the other day". You have no clue whats going to happen. it might be an abysmal failure.
  
  So often this is like the company that paid half a million dollars for TV ads and the phones started to ring off the hooks. They are excited and say it worked and then time goes on and at 3 months they realize they never recouped the costs and the poor ad they went with actually hurt their business.
  
  In the serps its even worse. Sites can go up temporarily and then amonth later vanish to position 612 and now they can go to position three and you get a notice for unnatural links and never recover the site to rank higher than 100 again. Thats not my or a lot of other people's definition of "works". too many short term testimonials skew the value of these links.
  
  Post penguin if you are making any real money with your business and you are fooling around with trying out fiverr Gigs you are insane.
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Gram
  
  Agree.
  
  /Thread.
  
  Sorry Paul. I know Mike. He was not talking about all the participants in this thread but making a general statement about those mostly outside of it.
  
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  Paul Gram 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  Sorry Paul. I know Mike. He was not talking about all the participants in this thread but making a general statement about those mostly outside of it.
  
  I know...that is why I agreed. I wasn't referring to any specific person(s) in this thread either (good or bad).
  
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Ettienne

13 years ago

Well, if not me, I'd go for Matt Laclear. He's got some haters, but the guy's certainly not stupid when it comes to SEO

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

^^ bro, no. Just no. I'm outta here.

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herms

13 years ago

I saw this thread and I was sooooooooo looking forward to the new seo expert I was going to hire for my business.

Sigh...

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jimgk

13 years ago

isn't a big difference between packages and a true full time SEO - the fact that packages typically provide links that generally are not niche related and are generally not quality - where as - a true SEO is doing the opposite for long term serp staying power?

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

...nobody's right If everybody's wrong. :rolleyes:

Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth 1967 -...

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

...nobody's right If everybody's wrong.

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jimgk

13 years ago

it seems to me that post google's feb and april algo changes, quality backlinks are NOW needed. prior to these algo changes, big quantity of low quality BLs was able to move a kw/url up in google's serps, but those days appear to be OVER. so buying packages of BLs that are not specific to your niche and/or are from low PR pages, will likely do more harm than good.

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Zibblu

13 years ago

Originally Posted by jimgk

it seems to me that post google's feb and april algo changes, quality backlinks are NOW needed. prior to these algo changes, big quantity of low quality BLs was able to move a kw/url up in google's serps, but those days appear to be OVER. so buying packages of BLs that are not specific to your niche and/or are from low PR pages, will likely do more harm than good.

This is definitely the conclusion I'm coming to as well.

I think at this point a lot of the SEO services out there hurt far more than they help (at least when pointed directly at your main URLs... perhaps some of them are still effective pointed at web 2.0s...)

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Mantasmo 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Zibblu

I think at this point a lot of the SEO services out there hurt far more than they help

My SEO sense is tingling. :p
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deezn

13 years ago

Lots of good information in this thread but reading Mike Anthony's post gives me a headache. Mike you sure you're not a lawyer? Politician? Lots of spinning man, and way too much negativity.

I've tried a few services in WF and use Matt's service for over 8 websites. The one website that tanked for me, is the one I used another service for. My mistake. I definitely had some dancing.

But even on one website, with just two pages, highly over-optimized, keyword stuffed, with just TWO anchors, yes two anchors pointing at the homepage, I've danced but haven't been de-indexed. It's been dancing before Penguin so I haven't even really noticed it. Just using their daily drip feed articles.

Penguin should snuff that out in a heartbeat. Two articles, one keyword stuffed all over, two anchor text combinations, thousands of links.

Nope. Still chugging. I have 3 more sites similar, but with a few more pages and not as optimized still plugging away.

Kind of pissed that my big site however seems to be penalized. It's the one site I used someone else's service on, and it's the one that I make serious money on (I'm a professional so one lead can convert to thousands in fees or hundreds of thousands, more often just thousands though).

So you can call me a liar, a sham, a plant, and really I just don't give a damn. I only post because man you have so much hate in your system. Get it all out brother. Kiss your wife, your girlfriend, your mom, pet your dog, something. Attack me all you want because I no have skin in this SEO game. I only do it for my business I will never sell anything here. So proceed to tear apart my credibility or reputation (I have none) it doesn't matter!

I paid Matt $99 in the middle of last year and it's made me tens of thousands. It wasn't all them, I wrote over hundred relevant articles to the site. And I have to attract the client, convert them and do the work. This isn't passive income. But I'm pissed at myself. For not putting up 10 websites instead.

Seriously, cheers bro. But just focus on your business and let them worry about theirs. Theirs works. I'm sure yours worked too or you wouldn't be so enthusiastic. Everyone has happy customers! Let's have a beer summit.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by deeznuts

So you can call me a liar, a sham, a plant, and really I just don't give a damn. I only post because man you have so much hate in your system.

LOL. He said sucking on his Mike Anthony Hate voodo doll. Bro if you don't give a damn then why get a headache reading? Anyway what you said is ridiculous. Just because I care enough about people's success (and thats what it comes down to) doesn't make you the Love guru. In fact not giving a rip is pretty much close to hating.

You are right though I don't believe you. I'm not required to believe anything you write nor you me. If we all had a nickle for everyone that stated they made "tens of thousands" :rolleyes: using a service we'd all make well...."tens of thousands".

In fact even from your own post you've proved my point

. Your reliance on spammy link building tanked your main money maker. Think my point is limited to one service provider? Never was. Want a shocker - I've actually told Matt before that his service wasn't half bad for the money if he didn't hype it beyond what it was. Go figure. But things change , google changed and somethings that had marginal benefit now are dangerous. All that has to be done by service providers is a few changes. SO instead of crying foul realize it might help. I mean who you think first nudged Matt into acquiring High Pr domains in a fairly popular thread here on WF? Umm surprise The SEO Mikes

.

It alright man you didn't know. Send us a thank you E-card at your earliest convenience.

So man get some excedrin chill out and frankly use your own advice. If you tell people to concentrate on their own business then its incoherent to think you can tell someone over a forum how to handle their posts.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You are right though I don't believe you. I'm not required to believe anything you write nor you me. If we all had a nickle for everyone that stated they made "tens of thousands" :rolleyes: using a service we'd all make well...."tens of thousands".

Typical, you don't believe him because he's defended us. You should take a long hard look at this.

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deezn

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You are right though I don't believe you. I'm not required to believe anything you write nor you me. If we all had a nickle for everyone that stated they made "tens of thousands" :rolleyes: using a service we'd all make well...."tens of thousands".

I know you won't believe me because it doesn't fit your narrative in this thread.

You can't make tens of thousands I make because you didn't pay $100,000 for this professional degree. I would also make those tens of thousands through ads on craigslist, or networking, or whatever.

I'm just trying to help you out bro. I was in another thread and was reading up, and lo and behold another hating post. By you. Seriously. Someone give this man a hug.

Yes the spammy links from another provider is causing some of my rankings to dance. Matt's spammy links are still going strong

But I have more than 125 handwritten by me articles on the site and add 2-3 a day. Visitor counts haven't been affected because frankly my customers don't shoot for the glamour keywords. Still I like them higher because they bring me different visitors.

I've figured out the formula for my business. I don't rely just on putting up a page and then buying backlinks. That hasn't worked for my business, at least not for me. At all. I have 3 test sites, all page 1, thin sites, but they don't convert. My deep site does.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

[QUOTE=deeznuts;6225090
You can't make tens of thousands I make because you didn't pay $100,000 for this professional degree. I would also make those tens of thousands through ads on craigslist, or networking, or whatever.

[/QUOTE]

You are right I did't pay $100,000 for a professional degree that has me talking about craigslist as a way to make money. I 'd ask for my money back if I did. An um you have no clue what I make, can or can't make. Thats the whole point. No one should believe an income based on it being posted on a forum. Just plain ole ordinary common sense.

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deezn

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You are right I did't pay $100,000 for a professional degree that has me talking about craigslist as a way to make money. I 'd ask for my money back if I did. An um you have no clue what I make, can or can't make. Thats the whole point. No one should believe an income based on it being posted on a forum. Just plain ole ordinary common sense.

Haha, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about then, which is fine I don't expect you to know the nature of my business or the many avenues to advertise.

I never said you DIDN'T make tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands. I said you don't make the kind I make, because you have to be licensed. You can make more than me. A brand new doctor might make $50,000 a year but I'll never make that $50,000. You have to be a doctor and I'm not!

I will never ever make $1 of what you make, because I don't sell SEO services!

BTW, are you monitoring this thread? You responded in like a minute earlier. I can see this thread has a huge effect on your ego/emotional state. :p

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by deeznuts

I paid Matt $99 in the middle of last year and it's made me tens of thousands. It wasn't all them, I wrote over hundred relevant articles to the site. And I have to attract the client, convert them and do the work. This isn't passive income. But I'm pissed at myself. For not putting up 10 websites instead.

I share your love for Matt and for many other who offer the same type of links as they open the eye's from the clients which then end up with me. Actually they just teach people what doesn't work. I mean, experience is the best teacher isn't it?

And yes I admit, I also used to sell crappy links but it's never to late to change.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

I share your love for Matt and for many other who offer the same type of links as they open the eye's from the clients which then end up with me. Actually they just teach people what doesn't work. I mean, experience is the best teacher isn't it?

And yes I admit, I also used to sell crappy links but it's never to late to change.

The one guy in here actively trying to sell his services and Michael gets on me about being in "sales mode".

Our "crappy links" are still getting results, friend. But things have changed and everybody needs to be smarter about SEO. We've already made changes to our page one service and have 100+ page ones post penguin. We made these changes before penguin, by the way. We're not standing pat.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

The one guy in here actively trying to sell his services and Michael gets on me about being in "sales mode".

Hahaha, I am a salesman, you can't blame me
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- Mantasmo 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by nik0
  
  Hahaha, I am a salesman, you can't blame me
  
  Way to go man. Excellent.
  
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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

and have 100+ page ones post penguin

I have one client that used this service before working with me. Since Penguin, his site had 100+ keywords that were mostly ranking on pages 1-3 all drop to page 20 and beyond. So I guess you broke even since Penguin. :rolleyes:

No, I will not reveal the client, nor do I want him to make himself known. The last thing I want is you trying to remedy this cluster ****.

There's my testimonial.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I have one client that used this service before working with me. Since Penguin, his site had 100+ keywords that were mostly ranking on pages 1-3 all drop to page 20 and beyond. So I guess you broke even since Penguin. :rolleyes:

No, I will not reveal the client, nor do I want him to make himself known. The last thing I want is you trying to remedy this cluster ****.

There's my testimonial.

That broke even sure gave me a good laugh

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retsek

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I have one client that used this service before working with me. Since Penguin, his site had 100+ keywords that were mostly ranking on pages 1-3 all drop to page 20 and beyond. So I guess you broke even since Penguin. :rolleyes:

No, I will not reveal the client, nor do I want him to make himself known. The last thing I want is you trying to remedy this cluster ****.

There's my testimonial.

Just wondering

...how do you recover a site that used their service ..whether it was affected by a unnatural links notice or penguin ?

Since they obviously refuse to remove links, that pretty much leaves you with the only option of abandoning the domain name and moving the content without a 301 ?

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

Just wondering

...how do you recover a site that used their service ..whether it was affected by a unnatural links notice or penguin ?

Since they obviously refuse to remove links, that pretty much leaves you with the only option of abandoning the domain name and moving the content without a 301 ?

I heard double 301's worked well but many clients don't want to abandon their site, especially offline clients where their clients know to find them by that domainname.

So yeah, would be very interesting to hear how to recover a site, the tests I did with adding real strong links the page only drop furthered and by renaming the url and building new links it ranked back in no time. To bad can't rename the homepage.

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

Just wondering

...how do you recover a site that used their service ..whether it was affected by a unnatural links notice or penguin ?

Since they obviously refuse to remove links, that pretty much leaves you with the only option of abandoning the domain name and moving the content without a 301 ?

Here's the thing. Nobody knows. Anyone that says they know how to recover a site hit by Penguin is full of ****. There are theories and many have beliefs how to do it, but it is too new to be certain about anything.

Also, most indications are that Penguin is similar to Panda in that it is not updated in real time. Sites get evaluated by the Panda update, but it doesn't improve or diminish their rankings until the next Panda refresh. Penguin is believed to be similar. So until Google flips its little switch and runs its next Penguin refresh, we won't know what actions can or cannot bring a site back.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Here's the thing. Nobody knows. Anyone that says they know how to recover a site hit by Penguin is full of ****. There are theories and many have beliefs how to do it, but it is too new to be certain about anything.

Well we know one thing though - doing the same ole same ole won't work and yet its stunning but from what I see sellers expect to do just that. I actually saw a very popular lady last night claiming that her forum profile links were not only effective but I tell no lie - her words - "perfectly safe". Saw another seller claim his service was penguin safe and it included a 1,000 BMR BLAST

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Well we know one thing though - doing the same ole same ole won't work and yet its stunning but from what I see sellers expect to do just that. I actually saw a very popular lady last night claiming that her forum profile links were not only effective but I tell no lie - her words - "perfectly safe". Saw another seller claim his service was penguin safe and it included a 1,000 BMR BLAST

Wow that is absolutely stunning, when one would think there is nothing worse then Matt's / Marc's services then there is even worse

:p

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Wow that is absolutely stunning, when you think there is nothing worse then Matt's / Marc's services then there is even worse

:p

actually probably to a lot of people's shock - no I don't think that their service is the worse out there. Lets not target one service above all others. Lots of people, services and techniques have been hit pretty hard over the last year.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

actually probably to a lot of people's shock - no I don't think that their service is the worse out there. Lets not target one service above all others. Lots of people, services and techniques have been hit pretty hard over the last year.

I didn't mean that you would think that specifically, just more in a general meaning and obvious just teasing

hence the ton of smiley's. Yeah at least about all of the providers at this forum have been hit hard, me included. I would be the last one to deny it. It sucks but we just continue in a more legitimate way. Although some are really ununderstandable.

These 2 examples that you showed, are these still showing at the first pages (as in still active) or is the 1000 BMR post one digged up from far behind?

EDIT: Changed it from "you think" to "one would think" as that is what I actually meant to say.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I have one client that used this service before working with me.

I have several refugees and like i said all you have to do is SEARCH. They pretty much come to me because they can't be bothered anymore. They know if they do it themselves its guaranteed to run the way they want it.

Originally Posted by retsek

Since they obviously refuse to remove links, that pretty much leaves you with the only option of abandoning the domain name and moving the content without a 301 ?

Pretty much and I would be sympathetic with them IF they had not said they run their own network. IF you don't then perhaps you can't remove the links but its really weak and horrible customer service to refuse to remove links from your own network if theres even the slight possibility they are bringing down any customer's sites.

I know Marc will respond (with some more spin dancing) but you guys don't have to worry about anymore back and forth. True to my word I put him on ignore when he tried to run away from the conclusions given by the very link he and Bam referenced. At that point even I could see the futility of the dialogue.

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kickmoney

13 years ago

LOOOOOL.

When I saw this thread go up fresh I knew it would become a 20 page measuring contest.

All the "big WSO'ers"

Mike Anthony putting up his walls of text etc...

Props to OP who is probably a pro-troll

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Jeff Lenney

13 years ago

Matt laclear. I use his services constantly. spent Over $2500 so far and well worth it. I've got one seo client paying me $650 a month. So far month 2 and they're in page 3 using nothing but my own on page seo and Matt's link network. Total cost to me so far $75 total gained picking up Check 3 today. Do the math

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by eljeffe77

I've got one seo client paying me $650 a month. So far month 2 and they're in page 3 using nothing but my own in page seo and Matt's link network. Total cost to me so far $75 total gained picking up Check 3 today. Do the math

Did it. Thanks. Exactly my point about testimonials. Page 3 is stellar :rolleyes:. Rock on. I'm sure your customer would love the work you are putting into it though.

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Jeff Lenney

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Did it. Thanks. Exactly my point about testimonials. Page 3 is stellar :rolleyes:. Rock on. I'm sure your customer would love the work you are putting into it though.

Page 3 for a new site after 2.1/2 months, I'm not complaining, it's a medium competitive phrase I'm going after. For what it's worth I used him before and got a clients site to pAge 1 after 2 months for an equally competitive phrases. I've put over $2500 of my own cash Ito his services, mostly for my own sites but some clients sites too. Overall great results

Edit: sorry for any typos above, wrote that on my iPad 2. Just wanted to say, I've paid outsources in Asia or India $300 a month for the same amount of time (2-3 months)- I'm much more inclined to pay $75 or $100 one time for Matt's services.

And as for the work I put into it - how much of your own SEO do you do? Do you build every single link yourself? If not, do you outsource? I'm sure your clients love the work you put into it....:rolleyes:

Seriously man, quit drinking the haterade - just because somebody charges a low price does not mean it's a poor quality service. I just ordered 3 months last night for a friends site for $75, I'm going to order another 3 month package later today for another site. You should really try his service before you knock it. If you need a hug or anything, let me know...

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by eljeffe77

Page 3 for a new site after 2.1/2 months, I'm not complaining, it's a medium competitive phrase I'm going after. For what it's worth I used him before and got a clients site to pAge 1 after 2 months for an equally competitive phrases. I've put over $2500 of my own cash Ito his services, mostly for my own sites but some clients sites too. Overall great results

Past performance is not even really the point being discussed in this thread. The penguin update is about two weeks old. Game has changed significantly for those of us that follow SEO and things that worked before don't work now long term and/or put your clients in jeopardy down the line. You should know that if you are charging clients $650 a month.

Forget Matt's service entirely. Anyone charging their clients good money a month and putting all their links in any one network like you just claimed you do is a pretty poor SEO. You just have to look at the deindexings before panda to know that you should not put a clients business at risk utilizing one service.

Page 3 means nothing to me and as a matter of fact for most SEOs page one is nothing either. With real companies top three is the aim. Keep picking up checks and not doing your due diligence. If you are catering to real businesses you won't be picking them up for long.

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Jeff Lenney

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Past performance is not even really the point being discussed in this thread. The penguin update is about two weeks old. Game has changed significantly for those of us that follow SEO and things that worked before don't work now long term and/or put your clients in jeopardy down the line. You should know that if you are charging clients $650 a month.

Forget Matt's service entirely. Anyone charging their clients good money a month and putting all their links in any one network like you just claimed you do is a pretty poor SEO. You just have to look at the deindexings before panda to know that you should not put a clients business at risk utilizing one service.

Page 3 means nothing to me and as a matter of fact for most SEOs page one is nothing either. With real companies top three is the aim. Keep picking up checks and not doing your due diligence. If you are catering to real businesses you won't be picking them up for long.

I forgot to mention, before penguin the main phrase was on page 4, the 2ndary on page 5 - now they're both at the to of page 3 (24 & 25)

The links are being more diversified now - they're being put onto blogs within specific categories - ie: I'm not having an article talking about Quitting Smoking, and then a link for "Los Angeles Plastic Surgery" (for example)

Why don't you share what you're using? You mentioned backlinktopia before - how are the results of that? Have you tried commission autopilot which is fairly similar?

How about outsourcing, what are you having your outsourcers do.

BTW - I'll notify you when the site reaches page 1 - it's up 2 & 3 pages SINCE penguin so far

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Past performance is not even really the point being discussed in this thread. The penguin update is about two weeks old. Game has changed significantly for those of us that follow SEO and things that worked before don't work now long term and/or put your clients in jeopardy down the line. You should know that if you are charging clients $650 a month.

100+ page one's since 4/24

Forget Matt's service entirely. Anyone charging their clients good money a month and putting all their links in any one network like you just claimed you do is a pretty poor SEO. You just have to look at the deindexings before panda to know that you should not put a clients business at risk utilizing one service.

Thank goodness that none of our clients rely on "any one network".

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by eljeffe77

And as for the work I put into it - how much of your own SEO do you do? Do you build every single link yourself? If not, do you outsource? I'm sure your clients love the work you put into it....:rolleyes:

Well seeing as how I build my own truly private networks, do link exchanges, use a variety of techniques as a matter of fact - Yes. I do build most of my own links. LOL I am always amazed by how many people who claim to be SEOs really have no idea how it is done outside of blasting and hiring some VA "outsourcer" in India.

If you need a hug or anything, let me know...

no shortage of hugs on this side bro. thanks for the offer but um no thanks. If I did roll that way you still wouldn't be my type.

Why don't you share what you're using? You mentioned backlinktopia before - how are the results of that? Have you tried commission autopilot which is fairly similar?

ROFL. Seriously were you just sent to this thread by someone ? Cause you certainly didn't even bother to read anything in it. I never mentioned anywhere using baklinktopia

. You clearly believe in one spammy link service after the next and have no clue what is going on. You could reach postion one using spammy links and still totally destroy the business of people you are taking money from.

I mean I welcome your participation though because the more you post the more people can see what I am talking about how easy it is to get testimonials from people who don't really know a lick of SEO.

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Jeff Lenney

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Well seeing as how I build my own truly private networks, do link exchanges, use a variety of techniques as a matter of fact - Yes. I do build most of my own links. LOL I am always amazed by how many people who claim to be SEOs really have no idea how it is done outside of blasting and hiring some VA "outsourcer" in India.

So a private link network, similar to the one Matt LaClear offers? Surely you must know the power of said networks then...

no shortage of hugs on this side bro. thanks for the offer but um no thanks. If I did roll that way you still wouldn't be my type.

I'm not your bro, bro.

(Sorry, zoolander quote)

ROFL. Seriously were you just sent to this thread by someone ? Cause you certainly didn't even bother to read anything in it. I never mentioned anywhere using baklinktopia

. You clearly believe in one spammy link service after the next and have no clue what is going on. You could reach postion one using spammy links and still totally destroy the business of people you are taking money from.

I suppose I should have read the entire thread first - I saw somebody posted saying they used backlinktopia, confused their post with yours - my bad.

I mean I welcome your participation though because the more you post the more people can see what I am talking about how easy it is to get testimonials from people who don't really know a lick of SEO.

Oh of course, I use somebody else's private link network & give it praise - therefore I don't know a lick of SEO - smart conclusion.

For what it's worth, I used to do 100% of my own stuff before I started making money with my sites - I also work a day job at one of the top 3 seo companies in the USA (because I enjoy it, not so much because I have to anymore). While the methods they use there are different than what I do personally...I'm helping them build their own private blog network now, and i'd like to think that I know just a LITTLE bit about SEO myself.

I know that in itself doesn't qualify me in your eyes as I clearly know nothing about SEO. How stupid can I be, I would rather pay others to do the grunt work for me... omg!

Results are Results. Do I achieve them? Yes, can I achieve them on my own still without outsourcing? Absolutely.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by eljeffe77

I suppose I should have read the entire thread first - I saw somebody posted saying they used backlinktopia, confused their post with yours - my bad.

I was the one mentioning backlinktopia, actually I don't know which software they use, I have another VA for that and he claims to do it manually but I know better then that. Anyway it delivers links and I don't think they are categorizable as spammy, it's only 25 links and it comes from unique sources so it has not much to do with spam really. Whether it's a great contribution to these sites is another story but as long as the links remain and they give ranking increasements it's all good.

Besides that I think you are acting pretty scummy by charging clients $650/month to have them bombarded with cheap spun article links. Guess we have different standards. I ain't saying the documents I submit to these sharing sites are of such high standards, but I ain't charging $650/month for that.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Besides that I think you are acting pretty scummy by charging clients $650/month to have them bombarded with cheap spun article links. Guess we have different standards. I ain't saying the documents I submit to these sharing sites are of such high standards, but I ain't charging $650/month for that.

You don't know what you are talking about nik0, don't turn into Mike.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

You don't know what you are talking about nik0, don't turn into Mike.

Actually I do know what I talk about cause I have penalized clients sites in the recent past and you have done that as well. You can not deny that.

Anyway I don't feel happy about that and seriously asked myself, what you going to do? Keep on doing the same and waste people's money or are we going the bit less effective route. Turns out it didn't get less effective at all actually but it does take a bit longer for the effect to kick in and the manual work got a bit more for me so I increased the prices a bit.

I ain't going the Mike route cause he keeps referring to expensive packages and I totally disagree with that. I see MANY professional SEO companies charge their clients $300+/month and they outsource it to me for prices like $50/month. And this is not a sporadic event, here the poster above us even mentions he charges his clients $650 and signs up at you for $99,-. The perfect example why many expensive monthly services are definetly not better then what we offer. Obvious and gladly there are exceptions, yes I call it exceptions although I might be pretty biased as I obvious only get those SEO companies contacting me.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Actually I do know what I talk about cause I have penalized clients sites in the recent past and you have done that as well. You can not ignore that.

No you don't because you have no idea what was purchased and what we do with those purchases. You made a statement about what he was getting which is entirely fictional.

I ain't going the Mike route cause he keeps referring to expensive packages and I totally disagree with that.

I mean Mike route as making factually incorrect statements and then attacking them as factual.

"bombarded with cheap spun article links"

is the incorrect portion of your statement. This is not what he bought nor is it what he is getting.

I see MANY professional SEO companies charge their clients $300+/month and they outsource it to me for prices like $50/month. And this is not a sporadic event, here the poster above us even mentions he charges his clients $650 and signs up at you for $99,-. The perfect example why many expensive monthly services are definetly not better then what we offer. Obvious and gladly there are exceptions, yes I call it exceptions although I might be pretty biased as I obvious only get those SEO companies contacting me.

Well, I won't make any comment on the morality of reselling at this kind of a rate but the fact of the matter is you grossly mis-characterized what he bought and what he is getting. Hopefully this clears it up.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

No you don't because you have no idea what was purchased and what we do with those purchases. You made a statement about what he was getting which is entirely fictional.

We both get clients from the same source and I think I don't have to explain more then that.

EDIT: This comment is pointed at the $99 page one service. Get's a bit confusing.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

We both get clients from the same source and I think I don't have to explain more then that.

Not sure what this means but it doesn't make your statement any more true.

eljeffe77 is not getting "bombarded with cheap spun article links". This is incorrect. If you think it is correct then you are going off of bad and old information.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Not sure what this means but it doesn't make your statement any more true.

eljeffe77 is not getting "bombarded with cheap spun article links". This is incorrect. If you think it is correct then you are going off of bad and old information.

All posts I made in this thread towards you are related to the $99 guaranteed page one ranking.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

I mean Mike route as making factually incorrect statements and then attacking them as factual.

"bombarded with cheap spun article links"

is the incorrect portion of your statement. This is not what he bought nor is it what he is getting.

Yeah you are right about that, I assumed he bought the $99 page one ranking.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by eljeffe77

So a private link network, similar to the one Matt LaClear offers? Surely you must know the power of said networks then...

jeffe - hang around in the forums and read up. You owe it to your customers. cause seriously with every post you make you are demonstrating how much your clients are being overcharged. If you are trying to compare a truly private network to one used by allegedly hundreds and thousands filled with spun content then you are not read up on the subject at all. Its not that you use outsourcers that shows you don't know SEO its the things you say and admit to.

Frankly any alleged SEO doing SEO for an real businesses that is puttin links on pages that make it easy for their customers competitors to report them for link spam (and nothing is easier to spot as bought links than links inside of spun content) is playing the game so bad they should and could be sued.

From the posts i've read there is nobody active on Warrior who understands SEO better then Mike Anthony. I don't know Mike and i'm not connected with him in any way but I do know he speaks a lot of sense.

Scott thanks but I don't know if thats true. I probably post more because I have a work flow that is automated but needs monitoring so I can type while it works but I can't always break away from the computer. Truth is though by a happy coincidence of names there are some Mikes I think who know as much if not more than me. Mike Friedman is solid and contributes quite a bit. So is Mike Grant and like Yoda said - there is another (but admittedly he is no around much)

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

A solid week of BSing each other & no one agrees the other guy is better at SEO.

Classic!

Back to OPs question, I wouldn't buy anything from someone that can bitch for a solid week. I bet customer service would be brutal.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

This thread really needs a coolstarrybra.jpg.

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retsek

13 years ago

Why is this thread so long?

The answer is no one. Just about EVERYTHING you can buy here and other places like Fiverr should be avoided if you're looking at the long-term. The days of cheap link building are over.

Put in the time and learn what you need to know. Then you'll know right away what you need to buy and who you need to buy it from. And that's only half the equation - somethings can't be bought.

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Looks like business as usual around here

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Jeff Lenney

13 years ago

I think i'm done with this thread

For the Dutch dude - I've done ALOT of on-page optimization, written blog posts, optimized images, their site as a whole, their pages etc - i've well earned the rate i'm charging them. I outsource the linking, the on-page stuff I do myself - and I've spent MANY hours the first few months optimizing the site properly.

To be honest, I should have charged more - but as they're repeat customers I discounted my rates a bit. Granted, if I was JUST doing off-site linking and nothing on-site - that might be a bit ridicolous - but i've done plenty on their site as well with regards to proper optimization.

As for cheap links? Hardly - they've improved MOST of the sites i've used them on before, both before and after penguin.

I'm done with this thread. I came here to say that I use Matt LaClears service and have had good results with it - I didn't know this would turn into a contest to see who has the biggest c*ck...

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Okay then I take my words back, I might have to assume a little less.
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DPM70

13 years ago

It's actually good to see the passion and sputum coming out in these threads (if not somewhat tiresome to keep up with) - Whoever says SEO is dead is a liar.

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GyuMan82

13 years ago

Since everyone is doing their "closing arguments" in this thread I will add mine too as I am sure there are a TON of newbs that will read this.

Gyuman82's Closing Argument:

This is internet marketing, at the end of the day the goal is to make money. If you are making money, you are "doing it right". I see a lot of established warriors/service providers in this thread bickering over apples and oranges, when to be honest they are all "correct". There is no one "correct" business model despite what some people in this thread will have you believe.

Maybe with regards to "SEO" a long term solution may be to build quality links, your own private network, etc. However is it the most profitable way to go? That is for you to decide. Yes it is a powerful solution that is proven to work, but there is a lot of start-up costs and know how that goes into running a private blog network. Buying a lot of domains, hosting fees, and maintenance may make this option well worth it or not for you. I have my own private blog network so I know this to be true.

Likewise utilizing a "low-end SEO service" or engaging in building "low-end sites" perhaps may not be a viable "long-term" solution, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't utilize it in your arsenal of internet marketing tools.

For example the other day I bought 3 domains. I outsourced 3 "crappy" articles at $3/piece and loaded it up with 20 crappy spun plr articles. Total cost about $30. Using "crappy links", I ranked these easy keywords on page 1 within 48 hrs and each started to get about 10 hits. I already made 2 sales for $95, netting me $65. Sure these sites may "fall off" eventually, but the low-competition keyword will probably allow it to stay up there for a while and "ride the wave", and I will probably make more sales in the near future. So from the business standpoint, I made a profit. Should I abandon such a strategy? Of course not, and I blow this strategy up to the tune of 5-figures every month so I'm not gonna stop doing it.

Likewise you can sell SEO services, whether it be a one-time fee of $99 or an ongoing $1,000/month commitment. If the client is happy, who cares? Value is in the eye of the beholder. I manage both High End SEO Clients and Low End SEO Clients, at the end of the day if you can produce "value" for the client that's great. If at the end of the day your clients make money because of your service that is all that matters.

Do you make money using private networks?
Cool story bro.

Do you make money selling high end SEO services?
Cool story bro.

Do you make money selling low end SEO services?
Cool story bro.

Do you make money building authority sites?
Cool story bro.

Do you make money building crappy MFA's?
Cool story bro.

Do you make money selling websites?
Cool story bro.

At the end of the day it's all about making money. How you get from point A to point B is irrelevant as long as you somehow get to the final destination.

Now some will say well there is a "moral" way to make money, but you know what, that is not for you to judge. Let me say that I neither condone moral or condemn immoral ways to make money, everyone runs their businesses differently and it is not my place to tell others how to do it. You should only care about how you manage yours. What others do is none of your business.

And finally to succeed in internet marketing always let common sense be your guide. A lot of "gurus" on this forum are praised by the newbs as "knowledgeable", and though this may or may not be true, you need to take everything you read with a grain of salt.

Take a step back and ask yourself if you were really making money in internet marketing, would you lurk on forums all day? Perhaps. However in my humble opinion you probably would not.

This isn't meant to attack anyone specifically, but it is merely an observation. Common sense leads me to think that people that really make money in internet marketing do not spend all day long posting on forums and arguing with anonymous people they will never meet.

Common sense also tells me people that are marking money in internet marketing are out there managing clients, building sites, and making money.

And if you disagree with what I said, you know what? I don't care. You are someone on a forum that I will never meet who has no bearing on my life. You handle your biz, I'm gonna handle mine. It's as simple as that.

So on that note my time in this thread has come to an end. That is my golden nugget of wisdom and I hope maybe it helps some. Good luck people and God Bless.

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Ashera

13 years ago

I found absolutely 0 useful content in this thread, just a bunch of bickering and sales pitches about whose got a bigger you know what.

On that note- there are maybe 5 people I would trust on this forum to do SEO on any of my sites - and none of them actually sell SEO services on this forum.

Not going to get a lot of fans for this one - but in my opinion, if someone is selling SEO for anything less than $500 a month they most likely don't know the first thing about SEO or IM. Anyone could make a hell of a lot more money building their own site and ranking it.

Why would I waste my time ranking someone else's site for a few hundred dollars a month when I can rank my own and bring in $600-$3,000 per site?

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ashera

I found absolutely 0 useful content in this thread, just a bunch of bickering and sales pitches about whose got a bigger you know what.

On that note- there are maybe 5 people I would trust on this forum to do SEO on any of my sites - and none of them actually sell SEO services on this forum.

Not going to get a lot of fans for this one - but in my opinion, if someone is selling SEO for anything less than $500 a month they most likely don't know the first thing about SEO or IM. Anyone could make a hell of a lot more money building their own site and ranking it.

Why would I waste my time ranking someone else's site for a few hundred dollars a month when I can rank my own and bring in $600-$3,000 per site?

Same like Spencer for example who saw his $10k/month Adsense income be vanished the next day cause he got banned? No thank you. Lately about 75% of my clients own real businesses and are not dependant on affiliate/adsense deals and this is my real business.

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Ashera

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Same like Spencer for example who saw his $10k/month Adsense income be vanished the next day cause he got banned? No thank you. Lately about 75% of my clients own real businesses and are not dependant on affiliate/adsense deals and this is my real business.

You don't have to rely on one source for monetization or one source of traffic, but OK, enjoy selling $100 a month SEO packages on here, whatever works. I'm not knocking SEO as a business I'm knocking cheap SEO as a business. SEO should not be cheap, that's just my opinion.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ashera

You don't have to rely on one source for monetization or one source of traffic, but OK, enjoy selling $100 a month SEO packages on here, whatever works. I'm not knocking SEO as a business I'm knocking cheap SEO as a business. SEO should not be cheap, that's just my opinion.

Why would I not enjoy it? My clients get steady rankings with links that are safe, they make money, I make money, there is a good team in place to do the "hard" work and I have all the time to answer clients emails, preparing reports, gathering the work and posting at forums. Like someone else stated a while back, we sell links for an affordable price, onpage and such are not included in that price so I have a sea of time.

Why don't I use that time more for efficient to launch my own sites? I feel no need to, I'm happy this way. When I get bored I might setup a new team to rank sites we own ourselves, not everyone is chasing to be a millionaire, some people are happy with what they have.

Besides that I am happy that I can offer people a cheap and solid alternative. SEO does not have to be expensive.

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mosthost 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ashera

I found absolutely 0 useful content in this thread, just a bunch of bickering and sales pitches about whose got a bigger you know what.

I agree. And it was LONG to make cover no new territory.
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- Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mosthost
  
  I agree. And it was LONG to make cover no new territory.
  
  alright, alright I can get the point although to be honest no one complaining is actually putting in anything so you got about what you put in.
  
  However point taken so maybe this will make up for it and may be new to you and you will learn something new. In the process I get to blow up Gyuman's extremely poor points.
  
  During this time while participating in this thread I have set up about 30 sites, around 50-80 additional Web 2.0 sites for mini network bonuses, gone though hundreds if not thousands of Aged domains, their PR their backlinks etc as I build out about 18 networks for various customers. along the way I acquired some of the aged domains that made the cut. I Did two short videos to show a customer how to use scribefire for his new combo joomla /wordpress blog network,registered and upgraded nameservers to many of the sites , signed up a new SEo customer and answered about 7 emails from customers (yeah higher paying customers means less customers and less support emails), oh and posted answers on my training site. Plus I finalized details on a new forum I am building.
  
  How did I have the time to participate here as well with all that? Despite Gyu's utter nonsense successful people making money all have developed systems and /or hire people. duh. Its in fact one of the thing that makes them successful.
  
  My secret weapon recently? My automation rig using the new Winautomation 4.0 released a few weeks ago (but I have been working with it from beta for months) inside of virtualbox. IN my training I call it my SEO rig. I've now set up two within my system (they run as complete operating systems within their own windows) . Normally those small jobs would take me forever or I would need to use an employee on that but this program is so sweet it can automate ANYTHING. In one virtual box i have it programmed to go out and datamine a list of PR4s that are available, Store it in a file, open up spyglass , input all the domains one by one and it waits for each to complete. I can set it at night an then just go through the results later and as the days goes on and as I watch prices for aged domains fluctuate(HUGE time saver for anyone who knows how slow spyglass can be).
  
  In another rig it goes out changes the nameservers, creates passwords. logs into totally separate hosts (not SEO hosts) creates hosting accounts in Cpanel's WHM, then later set up wordpress using softcalous. It can then go in and set up the blogs. I can then have it open Magicsubmitter - the only auto link building tool I use because I can add my own sites - go out to a site that creates random but real sounding names, it then stores that info and enters into magic submitter in spin format for site names (not content spinning) and then gets MS going doing its thing.
  
  Now I know there are packages out there that can do some of that but Winautomation 4.0 is replacing all of them for me. I am saying goodbye to manageWP because of it. I can use it to automate workflows even if they involve opening and using multiple programs. Through a combination of image recognition, field recognition within its browser and logic within flow control its like an extra worker, retrieving data, storing it and entering it into any program.
  
  the only thing is that i am getting use to the system so right now I monitor it until I know all the scripts I write are performing under various server speeds etc. So Gyuman is full of nonsense. Your business model, who works for you and how your system is setup is what makes money for you not running around like a chicken without a head trying to get every last dollar. I've been getting a ton done through my system and while monitoring it and not having to do it all myself I have been able to participate here.
  
  Totally garbage point. Some of the most successful people in the world spend many of their days on beaches or touring the world.
  
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  nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Well said Mike.
  
  Everyone started with IM to chase the dream of passive income, and what are people telling each other on this forum? That you have to work your ass off to accomplish things.
  
  It's all about organizing things and outsource as much as possible preferrably in a layered management style.
  
  Personally I started alone 4 months ago, less then 3 months later I hired my first VA. This VA has now became my VA manager and now runs a local business in Pakistan with 4 employees. And in the meanwhile I hired 1 other VA's for specialised tasks and last week I connected with a large firm in Singapore that have a lot of trained VA's working for them and I only have to deal with the manager and 1 word is enough for them. Costs: Max $3/hour.
  
  My workload: preparing orders, emailing it to 3 people, waiting for it to return and sending it to the client.
  
  Tough job!
  
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DPM70

13 years ago

Common sense leads me to think that people that really make money in internet marketing do not spend all day long posting on forums and arguing with anonymous people they will never meet.

You make some great points - good luck with your sig links.

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codecreative

13 years ago

looks like backlinktopia has a spanner in its works as docstoc has said

"At this point in time, docstoc has disabled links on the previews of documents. However, we are looking at enabling links on a case by case basis. To be considered, please provide your username and the documents for which you would like the links enabled."

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

This will be my last post in this thread. Not really. :p

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

This will be my last post in this thread. Not really. :p

This is definetly my last post, I can't watch it anymore, why can't we all love eachother

ps I don't wanna brag but I got 5 degrees, beat that!
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jimgk

13 years ago

how did G find BMR and the like. they have a staff person/s on forums like these. not exactly complicated detective work. it is a shame that site's that have been doing no seo, aka: forgotten sites, are now ranking above site's whose owners have been working hard, using grey and black hat strategies, have not lost a few spots in serps but got slammed overnight. google was clearly giving credit for them prior to april 24th. it is like the cops not ticketing you for going 64mph on a 55mph highway for years and then one day deciding to ticket everyone going 56 and faster. i think it is more than the algo not counting the spammy links, i think there is a flat out penalty at work here but i have no proof to back it up. but can't an algo do both? i have 1000s of spammy BLs on my site which i am now trying to get some removed, but, if i can get 10% removed, i think i'd be lucky. wat about the remaining 1000s? i really don't want to relaunch my site under a new domain name.

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Fernando Veloso

13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

Hi. I have spend a lot of money on backlink packages from the wf hire section.

Dude, that's your problem, right there.

SEO isn't backlinks. SEO is a mix of techniques to bring you the authority you need to get top rankings in a search engine.

This is not 1990...

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Man, this pic has so many LOGICAL FLAWS - "1990 was 20 years ago" - you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. 1990 was 22 years ago. I've no doubt that every last one of your posts on this board is ridden with this sort of destructive logic which only further confuses those new to SEO.

:p

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Fernando Veloso

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Man, this pic has so many LOGICAL FLAWS - "1990 was 20 years ago" - you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. 1990 was 22 years ago. I've no doubt that every last one of your posts on this board is ridden with this sort of destructive logic which only further confuses those new to SEO.

:p

lol

At least I haven't used one 1995 Cher picture...

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Mantasmo 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

lol

At least I haven't used one 1995 Cher picture...

Thank GOD for that, lol...

P.S. cats are cute heh. even though that pic is shopped. ;/
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Man, this pic has so many LOGICAL FLAWS - "1990 was 20 years ago" - you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. 1990 was 22 years ago. I've no doubt that every last one of your posts on this board is ridden with this sort of destructive logic which only further confuses those new to SEO.

:p

You are glossing over the more serious SEO issues BNEt. That cat does not look four years old and who said its photoshopped? How can that be concluded so fast?. Theres a conspiracy going on here and we won't know much about it until enough time has passed and we test the picture and the cat according to the scientific method. "Take it from me" -The plot thickens.

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paulgl 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

SEO isn't backlinks. SEO is a mix of techniques to bring you the authority you need to get top rankings in a search engine.

This is not 1990...

I always say it's not 1997...

Paul
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Moving goal posts fallacy. We were talking about penguin.

umm.....yo Marc. You Checked the Thread title recently seen the word penguin in there? - we've been talking seo services like the OP asked.

You asked for a serp affected by Penguin, I gave you one and you ran away yelling conspiracy that it was a manual removal yada yada yada. Site tanked after the algo settled out - Point set match as far as giving you a proof in the serp. I'm still waiting for you to show ANYTHING in the serps.

Cue the sound of crickets.

I think you could do this even if the content was 100% unique. A bunch of articles with a link to the same site made on or around the same day on multiple blogs. It isn't the spun content that is the problem.

lol really ? Cool story Bra. So um just the fact that a number of sites link to the same site on the same day determines that the sites are a network? Ever heard of a press release marc?:rolleyes: Its that white hat thing some SEOs do and it generates several links on the same day to the same site when a number of people write about whatever the press release is about.

Its either you are clueless or trying desperately to hand wave yourself out of reality. Skip the mind reading too. I determine what I meant. There is no spinner on the market that doesn't create garbage. Right now rewriting using human intelligence is the only way to generate good content out of a single article. The best spinner that I've seen only helps a human to rewrite if they want good results.

They don't make any hard conclusions Michael. They present the data that they have and make some observations about it. By the way you misrepresented what bambu said.

Pinnochio's nose would outreach the Golden gate bridge if he told that lie. the article says right there in plain big subheadings a bit down on that page

Conclusion: What Is Google Doing?

and then proceeds to cite several conclusions and solutions for people to do. What Marc? You hoping no one would read the link? Straight up lying. I know...... it all depends on what the definition of is is? Hi Bill.

No one misrepresented Bam either. You just aligned your argument with him and now have to save face. By pointing to that article Bam cemented his his hypocritical stance. Its written a week earlier and his citing it despite claiming its too early for me to say whats in the algo is intellectually dishonest. Further the article is worse for both you and him

Under the conclusions it reads on Method #4 of the solutions : Play Google’s Game

"Get completely legitimate whitehat links! All of the previous points are ways to emulate a “natural” backlink profile. Meaning, ways to make your site look like it’s whitehat, despite possibly taking some shortcuts."

Now question Marc. Do you want to go on record claiming that spun content "LOOKS natural"?

Thank Bam for me when you see him. The article he recommended proves my point as well. anyway Mom's done with dinner. Now we have to sit through some chick flicks. Aaaaarggh..... LOL.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

umm.....yo Marc. You Checked the Thread title recently seen the word penguin in there? - we've been talking seo services like the OP asked.

This is a meaningless observation. I made a direct request to you and you gave me a SERP.

You asked for a serp affected by Penguin,

I did NOT ask for this. I asked for data pointing to the conclusion that spun content itself was being targeted by the algo.

I gave you one and you ran away yelling conspiracy that it was a manual removal yada yada yada. Site tanked after the algo settled out - Point set match as far as giving you a proof in the serp. I'm still waiting for you to show ANYTHING in the serps.

How the hell did I run away? I've responded to your evidence and even went much deeper in analyzing the site in question than you did.

lol really ? Cool story Bra. So um just the fact that a number of sites link to the same site on the same day determines that the sites are a network?

There would need to be other indicators, sure.

Ever heard of a press release marc?:rolleyes: Its that white hat thing some SEOs do and it generates several links on the same day to the same site when a number of people write about whatever the press release is about.

Yeah and you can submit spun content to article directories or wp blogs which doesn't make them a network either. It isn't as simple as you're making it out to be.

Its either you are clueless or trying desperately to hand wave yourself out of reality. Skip the mind reading too. I determine what I meant.

That's great. You also determine what everybody else meant to. You're cool.

There is no spinner on the market that doesn't create garbage.

So you did mean badly spun content. OK.

Right now rewriting using human intelligence is the only way to generate good content out of a single article. The best spinner that I've seen only helps a human to rewrite if they want good results.

See you did mean what I thought you meant. You're talking about badly spun articles not just spun articles.

Pinnochio's nose would outreach the Golden gate bridge if he told that lie. the article says right there in plain big subheadings a bit down on that page

Conclusion: What Is Google Doing?

You're joking, right?

and then proceeds to cite several conclusions and solutions for people to do. What Marc? You hoping no one would read the link? Straight up lying. I know...... it all depends on what the definition of is is? Hi Bill.

I know what the article says, Michael.

This is sort of a scientific paper and its common, no, required that you write a conclusion to what you've just presented. This "conclusion" is just wrapping up the interpretation of the data presented. It isn't saying that this is the conclusive last statement on the subject. You really jumped the shark here Michael. Since you don't know about scientific writing I'll forgive your ignorance on the subject.

No one misrepresented Bam either.

Maybe you don't even know it when you are doing it.

You just aligned your argument with him and now have to save face. By pointing to that article Bam cemented his his hypocritical stance. Its written a week earlier and his citing it despite claiming its too early for me to say whats in the algo is intellectually dishonest. Further the article is worse for both you and him

Given all of this, I don't think they make a single statement that is as absolute as Michael Anthony's on the subject. Bambu was right and you are still wrong.

Under the conclusions it reads on Method #4 of the solutions : Play Google's Game

"Get completely legitimate whitehat links! All of the previous points are ways to emulate a "natural" backlink profile. Meaning, ways to make your site look like it's whitehat, despite possibly taking some shortcuts."

Yes, this has always been a "method" what's changed?

Now question Marc. Do you want to go on record claiming that spun content "LOOKS natural"?

Badly spun content? No. Original content can look unnatural, whats your point?

Thank Bam for me when you see him. The article he recommended proves my point as well.

It doesn't "prove" anything. They list a "method" and you act like it's the gospel truth.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

This is sort of a scientific paper and its common, no, required that you write a conclusion to what you've just presented. This "conclusion" is just wrapping up the interpretation of the data presented. It isn't saying that this is the conclusive last statement on the subject. .

LOl spin baby spin, I predicted would go to some semantic game - it depends on what the definition of is is.

Lets see... I mean why bother referring to what they say when we can quote it directly.

Conclusion: What Is Google Doing?

We just demonstrated the “actions” Google is taking by evaluating one of the best data sets in existence to conduct a case study of this nature, so it should be obvious that Google is trying to prevent over-optimization of links in terms of anchor text use and valuating links from relevant sites higher than links from non-relevant sites in terms of SERP visibility for the promoted site.

Hmmm ... sure seems like they are drawing some conclusions about the actions Google took in Penguin and only about a week after the algo was released pretty much destroying Bam's and Marc's point that that there hasn't been enough time. So is this just a conclusion required from a "scientific paper" :rolleyes: or do they go on to give SPECIFIC things that people practically should and should not do post penguin. Lets see....

That’s Some Great Info! But What Exactly Should I Be Doing?

(I’m Lazy and Don’t Care About Google Updates. I Just Want to Rank!)

yeah you get that kind of language in a scientific paper conclusion every day ......ROFL. But hey are they done? No it gets even better. The very same alleged scientific paper they are hawking says the following

It’s no longer enough to have private networks with small amounts of content, anchor text that is poorly placed within the context of the article, no (or very little) accountability in the area of content quality, and other gaping network-wide footprints and general low quality attributes.

Well golly gee. IN their conclusions they indicate that content around the anchor text that has little or no accountability in the area of content QUALITY is no longer enough. That low quality attributes of the content around the links matters in penguin.

"No longer enough" sure sounds absolute not like "might no longer be enough".

So Marc um ....You think spun content indicates a high quality attribute of content ? That spun content indicates a lot of accountabilty in the area of content quality?

And don't even try spinning its just a method they suggest. Now that people can read the statements themselves it won't fly. Its a bare faced straightforward statement of what is no longer enough in regard to content quality around anchor text post penguin. and it comes from the very source you and Bam cited as scientific. let me guess

It doesn't "prove" anything.

Ummm...uh huh. Go ahead spin some more. Anyone that can't see the denial and twisting to avoid reality will never see it. Have the last word. I wont even bother reading any more. You can talk to yourself - at this point few people are reading anyway.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

You know what, I was going to leave it here but I'm sick of you out lasting people based solely on your stubbornness.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

LOl spin baby spin, I told predicted would go to some semantic game - it depends on what the definition of is is.

Lets see... I mean why bother referring to what they say when we can quote it directly.

This is sort of silly and isn't really worth arguing about. It's ok, you don't know the structure of scientific papers which this is sort of like. I will leave that portion as is.

Hmmm ... sure seems like they are drawing some conclusions about the actions Google took in Penguin and only about a week after the algo was released pretty much destroying Bam's and Marc's point that that there hasn't been enough time.

Again, saying that we don't know ANYTHING is a lot different than we can't draw any conclusions at all because we are hopelessly without data. I've been drawing conclusions about Penguin, based upon my data for quite some time. This doesn't mean I completely understand everything about the changes.

yeah you get that kind of language in a scientific paper conclusion every day ......ROFL. But hey are they done? No it gets even better. The very same alleged scientific paper they are hawking says the following

I said it was "sort of a scientific paper". Not a scientific paper.

Well golly gee. IN their conclusions they indicate that content around the anchor text that has little or no accountability in the area of content QUALITY is no longer enough. That low quality attributes of the content around the links matters in penguin.

So Marc um ....You think spun content indicates a high quality attribute of content ? That spun content indicates a lot of accountabilty in the area of content quality?

They were pretty clearly talking about attributes of a network in general. Also this is a "method" that they recommend it isn't based upon their data. The data shows nothing about spun backlinks.

And don't even try spinning its just a method they suggest.

I see, so my last comment won't persuade you? haha.

Now that people can read the statements themselves it won't fly. Its a bare faced straightforward statement of what is no longer enough in regard to content quality around anchor text post penguin.

They are talking about building a network.

Method #2: High Quality Blog Networks This might be the most "black hat" solution, but it's still affective. Recently ALN and BMR have proven that low quality networks which seemed to good to be true, are too good to be true.
It's no longer enough to have private networks with small amounts of content, anchor text that is poorly placed within the context of the article, no (or very little) accountability in the area of content quality, and other gaping network-wide footprints and general low quality attributes.
A completely internalized niche blog network (which in reality is really a group of microsites) is as effective as it ever was and generally more selective than large public blog networks to ensure proper quality control and avoid footprints. More on that later!

So they say BMR was low quality, they didn't use spun content. ALN WAS pretty bad with the quality of content you'd get so I agree with that.

Anyway this is one of their suggestions but I don't care about their suggestions. I cared about the data and when presenting the data they make no reference whatsoever to spun content. Its the anchor text and relevancy.

and it comes from the very source you and Bam cited as scientific. let me guess

I was the one that said it was "sort of scientific". Bamu didn't.

I don't know why I should be surprised, with your already demonstrated confirmation bias and the way you cherry pick which evidence is valid. You see this article as condemning "spun content" when the data didn't show this at all.

If you'd like to discuss the DATA and not the opinions of the authors then please tell me why "spun content" itself was targeted. At the end of the day I am not interested in opinions, I want data. If you want to talk about their opinions then don't bother.

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seomilo

13 years ago

wondering about legibility to post here.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by seomilo

wondering about legibility to post here.

No, you need at least 500 posts first

@M-guys: You really chose the wrong profession, should go into politics
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Marc_L

13 years ago

How does somebody offer a 1000 BMR blast? That would be COSTLY!

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Jeff Lenney

13 years ago

Just an update for Niko, and Mike

Page 2 now for both of my main keywords

SEO done
- Penguin Friendly ON-Page SEO by myself
*Optimized Pages, Optimized Images, Optimized Footer content, added blog posts and set up
internal linking structure to reinforce the main keyphrases - ETC.
- Backlinking by Matt LaClears service (nothing more)

My Client sells a rather high priced item - he's receiving more organic traffic each week and he's VERY happy with my services. Just 1 or 2 orders can easily pay what i'm charging him per month - so the value is there, and he's more than happy to pay it.

SEO doesn't have to be hard - set up some QUALITY on-page SEO, do NOT over optimize and get some quality backlinks and you're golden!

I know page 3 didn't impress Mike Anthony...but maybe page 2 will? If not, don't worry - it's still moving up after penguin - 2-3 pages now in the past...3 weeks, actually

Just sayin Mike - I'm sure you're an intelligent guy and all - you might want to sit down for this.....are you ready?

Ok, here goes - you're not always right.

I'll be back again to update once I reach page 1 -

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retsek

13 years ago

Originally Posted by eljeffe77

Just an update for Niko, and Mike

Page 2 now for both of my main keywords

SEO done
- Penguin Friendly ON-Page SEO by myself
*Optimized Pages, Optimized Images, Optimized Footer content, added blog posts and set up
internal linking structure to reinforce the main keyphrases - ETC.
- Backlinking by Matt LaClears service (nothing more)

SEO doesn't have to be hard - set up some QUALITY on-page SEO, do NOT over optimize and get some quality backlinks and you're golden!

I know page 3 didnt impress Mike Anthony...but maybe page 2 will? If not, don't worry - it's still moving up after penguin - 2-3 pages now in the past...3 weeks, actually

Just sayin Mike - I'm sure you're an intelligent guy and all - you might want to sit down for this.....are you ready?

Ok, here goes - you're not always right.

I'll be back again to update once I reach page 1 -

Yes, You'll reach Page 1 no doubt.

Post penguin, pre penguin it doesn't matter. What you don't get is that these updates are not integrated. They are refreshed and updated at random times. You can rank now with these links, but you'll have to worry about the next time Google decides refresh Penguin or release a whole new black and white animal -- not to mention the high risk of receiving "unnatural links" messages.

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Jeff Lenney

13 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

Yes, You'll reach Page 1 no doubt.

Post penguin, pre penguin it doesn't matter. What you don't get is that these updates are not integrated. They are refreshed and updated at random times. You can rank now with these links, but you'll have to worry about the next time Google decides refresh Penguin or release a whole new black and white animal -- not to mention the high risk of receiving "unnatural links" messages.

I'm expecting google cow or zebra shortly - lol

But yeah, I'm just focusing on quality - and so far it's working. If I need to add more of a social aspect to this campaign in the future, so be it too.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by eljeffe77

Just an update for Niko, and Mike

Page 2 now for both of my main keywords

SEO done
- Penguin Friendly ON-Page SEO by myself
*Optimized Pages, Optimized Images, Optimized Footer content, added blog posts and set up
internal linking structure to reinforce the main keyphrases - ETC.
- Backlinking by Matt LaClears service (nothing more)

My Client sells a rather high priced item - he's receiving more organic traffic each week and he's VERY happy with my services. Just 1 or 2 orders can easily pay what i'm charging him per month - so the value is there, and he's more than happy to pay it.

SEO doesn't have to be hard - set up some QUALITY on-page SEO, do NOT over optimize and get some quality backlinks and you're golden!

I know page 3 didn't impress Mike Anthony...but maybe page 2 will? If not, don't worry - it's still moving up after penguin - 2-3 pages now in the past...3 weeks, actually

Just sayin Mike - I'm sure you're an intelligent guy and all - you might want to sit down for this.....are you ready?

Ok, here goes - you're not always right.

I'll be back again to update once I reach page 1 -

Had you used my $19 package you would be at page 1 right now

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

Originally Posted by eljeffe77

I'll be back again to update once I reach page 1 -

Since you seemed to have missed the requirements of proof stated in this thread - show it in the serps (not necessarily your clients results but any site in a competitive serp with a link profile that proves your point) . I've told you and Marc what like ten times now? self testimonials are not going to do. They can be made up, fudged and filtered. You could have dropped to page four and say you are on page one to save face.
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warrior50

13 years ago

Hope that warrrior50 will settle some of the debates based on results and feedback from users - before clicking the link I have absolutely no affiliation with any of the posters on this thread.

In beta - will be fully functional in June.

www.warrior50.com

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by warrior50

Hope that warrrior50 will settle some of the debates based on results and feedback from users - before clicking the link I have absolutely no affiliation with any of the posters on this thread.

In beta - will be fully fuctional in June.

www.warrior50.com

I doubt that page is going to settle any debates. These are some long-winded people who love to argue.

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warrior50

13 years ago

I accept that - and warrior50 is not solely about seo. If buyers and users of these services - share their results and experiences it is a peer judged resource.

Some of the products and seo offerings on the forum do not always offer value, whilst some deliver incredible benefit for a small investment. The problem is each of us have our own prism through which we see results and how they impact us - hopefully if warriors share their thoughts we end up with a balanced reflection of who/what works and offers value.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by warrior50

I accept that - and warrior50 is not solely about seo. If buyers and users of these services - share their results and experiences it is a peer judged resource.

Some of the products and seo offerings on the forum do not always offer value, whilst some deliver incredible benefit for a small investment. The problem is each of us have our own prism through which we see results and how they impact us - hopefully if warriors share their thoughts we end up with a balanced reflection of who/what works and offers value.

How do you stop fake reviews/votes? Just wondering, haven't used your site yet.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

I doubt that page is going to settle any debates. These are some long-winded people who love to argue.

and quite a few that love to argue about the arguers while adding nothing to any debate

Originally Posted by warrior50

Hope that warrrior50 will settle some of the debates based on results and feedback from users - before clicking the link I have absolutely no affiliation with any of the posters on this thread.

In beta - will be fully functional in June.

www.warrior50.com

Hey W50...How do you plan on protecting it from being gamed? Like a seller sending a whole pile of "Testimonials" your way? Do you have a system to independently verify the system/products?

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warrior50

13 years ago

Mike

That would never happen in real life !!

Best way right now is accepting testimonials only from those we can verify with a warrior account, who have been active on the forum for a reasonable amount of time and we have a team of VA's who, especially on WSO's will check how many testimonial providers previously had input on relevant thread. Won't be all but shouldn't be none.

SEO testimonials should have at the least proof of ranking and improvement.

Got a couple of other checks in place that I'll keep powder dry on. It was one of the things that I wanted in place before proceeding - not lost on me that a deluge of recommendations might flow forth.

We will see how we roll.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by warrior50

Mike

That would never happen in real life !!

Best way right now is accepting testimonials only from those we can verify with a warrior account, who have been active on the forum for a reasonable amount of time and we have a team of VA's who, especially on WSO's will check how many testimonial providers previously had input on relevant thread. Won't be all but shouldn't be none.

SEO testimonials should have at the least proof of ranking and improvement.

Got a couple of other checks in place that I'll keep powder dry on. It was one of the things that I wanted in place before proceeding - not lost on me that a deluge of recommendations might flow forth.

We will see how we roll.

No offense (seriously), but with 4 forum post what credibility do you have?

You say the data reflects credibility of forum members who have been active for a reasonable amount of time, yet your forum profile (not necessarily you) is new (4 forum post).

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warrior50

13 years ago

Hi Yukon

we have swapped posts in the past I think.

Credibility will have to be earned for this site. I am not sticking my personal name to warrior50 to avoid being PM'd emailed personally on this.

If you take a look through site - there is an explanation as to how numbers are arrived at. Still in beta- given your post count, length of time on forum and experience you are the type of person that could contribute feedback that would be valued.

The reasons for this site are explained and there is no agenda. I suspect Mike is between smug and embarassed to top it - but that is just today based on last few weeks work - not operational until June and as you will see many services have not even been looked at yet - not even yours !!

Be a sport and give this site the opportunity to work for everyones benefit.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by warrior50

Hi Yukon

we have swapped posts in the past I think.

Credibility will have to be earned for this site. I am not sticking my personal name to warrior50 to avoid being PM'd emailed personally on this.

If you take a look through site - there is an explanation as to how numbers are arrived at. Still in beta- given your post count, length of time on forum and experience you are the type of person that could contribute feedback that would be valued.

The reasons for this site are explained and there is no agenda. I suspect Mike is between smug and embarassed to top it - but that is just today based on last few weeks work - not operational until June and as you will see many services have not even been looked at yet - not even yours !!

Be a sport and give this site the opportunity to work for everyones benefit.

So, basically, we should take your word for it then? That's the opposite of "scientific data" right there, sorry man.

Don't get me wrong here - I love the idea, but you gotta execute it right for anyone to take it seriously. As it stands right now, it's no better than the so called "self testimonials" or whatever people call them.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Don't get me wrong here - I love the idea, but you gotta execute it right for anyone to take it seriously. As it stands right now, it's no better than the so called "self testimonials" or whatever people call them.

Actually agreed. Thats why I asked if there was any independent testing of the products because it its just people emailing in then the results WILL be gamed.

The reasons for this site are explained and there is no agenda. I suspect Mike is between smug and embarassed to top it - but that is just today based on last few weeks work

Yeah pretty much in the middle. To be honest the person who PMed it to me can verify (if he wishes to . I'm not dragging him into it) my first response was to say it was a little sketchy because some of the names on there I would NEVER rate that highly. So I'll concede theres some work to be done to get overall better results.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by warrior50

Hi Yukon

we have swapped posts in the past I think.

Credibility will have to be earned for this site. I am not sticking my personal name to warrior50 to avoid being PM'd emailed personally on this.

If you take a look through site - there is an explanation as to how numbers are arrived at. Still in beta- given your post count, length of time on forum and experience you are the type of person that could contribute feedback that would be valued.

The reasons for this site are explained and there is no agenda. I suspect Mike is between smug and embarassed to top it - but that is just today based on last few weeks work - not operational until June and as you will see many services have not even been looked at yet - not even yours !!

Be a sport and give this site the opportunity to work for everyones benefit.

So PM me & tell me who you really are, what your real forum member name is, because right now that wf50 site looks fishy. The domain was created after this thread was first started, why? Why start that site up after this thread was started, why not last year, or the year before?

Obviously you have posted in this thread with another WF user name.

I'm always a good sport, but things are looking a bit suspicious from where I'm sitting.

BTW, I don't have any WF services.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

So PM me & tell me who you really are, what your real forum member name is, because right now that wf50 site looks fishy. The domain was created after this thread was first started, why?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Since it names me number one and you ask me if its mine I can see what you are trying to imply Yukon. ROFL. I have said many times - I don't give a rip about Testimonials. For SEo everything should be settled in the Serps. Like I said I referenced it in jest only to see heads explode and I have my first head explosion to record.

I'm always a good sport, but things are looking a bit suspicious from where I'm sitting.

You are a lousy sport and sitting on garbage. I welcome the mods to check IP addresses. Pretty please

. I have nada to do with that site, don't know whose it is and I was surprised when someone Pmed it over to me that it even existed, and If you looked at the rest of the list with whose at number 3 and whose at number 5 those who know me on this forum would know I would rollover in my grave before giving those results. Me put Matt at 5 and Jeremy at 3, excuse me again

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

BTW, I don't have any WF services.

Oh don't be so coy. You have sold wikipedia link stuff by PM in threads before. Seen it with my own eyes.

Is your name not on that list what this is really all about? Its a new site so it all really means nothing. If it were only one persons opinion I'd still be humbled and appreciate it. I make none of my points on testimonials.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Since it names me number one and you ask me if its mine I can see what you are trying to imply Yukon. ROFL. I have said many times - I don't give a rip about Testimonials. For SEo everything should be settled in the Serps. Like I said I referenced it only to see heads explode and I have my first head explosion to record.

You are a lousy sport and sitting on garbage. I welcome the mods to check IP addresses. I have nada to do with that site, don't know whose it is and I was surprised when someone Pmed it over to me that it even existed, and If you looked at the rest of the list with whose at number 3 and whose at number 5 those who know me on this forum would know I would rollover in my grave before giving those results. Me put Matt at 5 and Jeremy at 3, excuse me again

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh don't be so coy. You have sold wikipedia link stuff by PM in threads before. Seen it with my own eyes. Is your name not on that list what this is really all about? Its a new site so it all really means nothing. If it were only one persons opinion I'd still be humbled and appreciate it. I make none of my points on testimonials.

Lol, sorry man, when I clicked that link, I was ROTFL.

The domain date & this thread date (OP) was perfect timing!

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Lol, sorry man, when I clicked that link, I was ROTFL.

The domain date & this thread date (OP) was perfect timing!

So I take it WF50 Pmed you? Come on Yuke If you are going to come out and imply I was behind that site at least come out and officially withdraw it.

Apology accepted either way and yeah I was LOL literally when I saw #3 and #5 and was getting accused of being behind it. I'm still laughing in fact.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

So I take it WF50 Pmed you? Come on Yuke If you are going to come out and imply I was behind that site at least come out and officially withdraw it.

Apology accepted either way and yeah I was LOL literally when I saw #3 and #5 and was getting accused of being behind it. I'm still laughing in fact.

Yes, they sent me a PM.

Thing is the other forum profile barely has 100 forum post, so for all I know whoever it is could have 100 WF forum names. Or the other forum name they showed me wasn't even involved to begin with, their just BSing?

The way I figure, If a single person is going to have multiple forum profiles, they have something to hide. I don't have any interest in even trying to take someone like that serious.

I don't know who they are, don't really care. I just thought it was funny that someone would build a website because of this thread. That's hardcore dedication!

Anyways, If it's not your site, congratulations on first place.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I don't know who they are, don't really care. I just thought it was funny that someone would build a website because of this thread. That's hardcore dedication!

You are deliberately misrepresenteing something he already addressed and that was that he had the site in development from before. You got nothing but your sense of coincidence that he built it just for this thread. People amuse themselves all the time based on the voices only in their head.

Frankly aren't you guys (Not you or Paul Yuke. You can't talk about that) always saying I am backing and forthing with someone all the time? so why would it be anything strange that during "all the time" he would launch his site? it would be inevitable.

Anyways, If it's not your site, congratulations on first place.

You are a very poor sport Yuke. You apologized already and you wouldn't have done that if you still thought it was my site. If you think You had me in some deception you should have called a mod by now. Instead you come with your weak "if" when before you practically swore someone in this thread was playing games and implying me directly.

Originally Posted by yukon

I don't know who they are, don't really care.

Sorry Yuke. That cat is out the bag and you can't put it back in. You sure did care and wanted PM proof when you thought it was me

Originally Posted by retsek

eHow even went overboard with it when they were caught a few years back buying up dropped domains directly from a registrar. When it became public, the redirects magically disappeared and domains returned to parked. Google never even lifted a finger.

Yep. But seriously what can Google really say to the bigger companies. Want to see it rampant niche with this = check the the Job sites. That market is highly segmented to geography (due to people looking for jobs only within driving distance) and the big guys utilize links from a variety of those regional based sites to theiri other sites generally and from other regions. Big companies tht build out , own and operate a variety of other rgional domains. Healt and travel sites do it as well and no one can tell Disney not to link to ABC and ABC to Espn.

So when you really think about it theres not all that big a diference except price besides going to Flippa and buying a site and picking up a domain in liguidation at Godaddy that is about to expire

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You are deliberately misrepresenteing something he already addressed and that was that he had the site in development from before. You got nothing but your sense of coincidence that he built it just for this thread. People amuse themselves all the time based on the voices only in their head.

Frankly aren't you guys (Not you or Paul Yuke. You can't talk about that) always saying I am backing and forthing with someone all the time? so why would it be anything strange that during "all the time" he would launch his site? it would be inevitable.

You are a very poor sport Yuke. You apologized already and you wouldn't have done that if you still thought it was my site. If you think You had me in some deception you should have called a mod by now. Instead you come with your weak "if" when before you practically swore someone in this thread was playing games and implying me directly.

Sorry Yuke. That cat is out the bag and you can't put it back in. You sure did care and wanted PM proof when you thought it was me

Check the OP date & the date the domain was created, then get back with me.

I didn't apologize (don't try your word switching routine) because one of you guys created that site, I still don't know who because If a guy creates two forum profiles they'll possibly create even more profiles (wild goose chase).

I can't prove you own that site, but you just happened to be the first guy to post a link & also ranking #1 (WOW) for a bogus list, so you tell me, does it look suspicious?

Whoever is hiding behind multiple forum profiles has a lot to learn about trust/credibility when doing business.

Hey, I did congratulate you on being #1, isn't that being a good sport?

Earlier I said I didn't care becuase really I don't care, caring & laughing are two different things. Again, I thought it was funny as he$$ that someone would create a site because of this forum thread, I still think it's funny!

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Check the OP date & the date the domain was created, then get back with me.

I didn't apologize (don't try your word switching routine) because one of you guys created that site, I still don't know who because If a guy creates two forum profiles they'll possibly create even more profiles (wild goose chase).

I can't prove you own that site, but you just happened to be the first guy to post a link & also ranking #1 (WOW) for a bogus list, so you tell me, does it look suspicious?

Whoever is hiding behind multiple forum profiles has a lot to learn about trust/credibility when doing business.

Hey, I did congratulate you on being #1, isn't that being a good sport?

Earlier I said I didn't care becuase really I don't care, caring & laughing are two different things. Again, I thought it was funny as he$$ that someone would create a site because of this forum thread, I still think it's funny!

I bet Marc is behind this. thats why he put me at #45. He has been very silent since

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Check the OP date & the date the domain was created, then get back with me.

the owner already did get back to you so why should I?

I didn't apologize (don't try your word switching routine)

Uh huh

Originally Posted by yukon

Lol, sorry man, when I clicked that link, I was ROTFL.

Really switched up the word for you there didn't I?

because one of you guys created that site, I still don't know who because If a guy creates two forum profiles they'll possibly create even more profiles (wild goose chase).

You are full of garbage Yuke. You asked the guy to Pm you and he did and now in total dishonesty you are coming back in here again claiming "you guys". You are just poor sport pretending to know something you don't

but you just happened to be the first guy to post a link & also ranking #1 (WOW) for a bogus list

You still hurt you are not on it? LOL. Like I said another poster sent it to me by PM. I'll ask him to clear up your nonsense some more.

Whoever is hiding behind multiple forum profiles has a lot to learn about trust/credibility when doing business.

Probably but with your false accusation you are not the one to talk.

Earlier I said I didn't care becuase really I don't care

Yeah thats why you are back in this thread trying to keep the suspicion up.:rolleyes:

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

the owner already did get back to you so why should I?

Uh huh

Really switched up the word for you there didn't I?

You are full of garbage Yuke. You asked the guy to Pm you and he did and now in total dishonesty you are coming back in here again claiming "you guys". You are just poor sport pretending to know something you don't

You still hurt you are not on it? LOL. Like I said another poster sent it to me by PM. I'll ask him to clear up your nonsense some more.

Probably but with your false accusation you are not the one to talk.

Yeah thats why you are back in this thread trying to keep the suspicion up.:rolleyes:

This is like the Energizer Bunny tv commercial (Still Going!).

The timing of that site being created & this thread date (OP) is obviously proof enough for me that someone in this thread created the new site. Whoever has multiple forum names is a joke, what is this 5th grade?

You still hurt you are not on it? LOL. Like I said another poster sent it to me by PM. I'll ask him to clear up your nonsense some more.

Ha, ha,

Maybe I should start selling link blast so I can get on the list (j/k).

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

This is like the Energizer Bunny tv commercial (Still Going!).

The timing of that site being created & this thread date (OP) is obviously proof enough for me that someone in this thread created the new site.

The fact that you are the only one going on about it for multiple posts is proof enough that you should be included among those under suspicion. SO what Yuke? You behind that site and put my name up top so that you could try and claim it was me faking rep?

Hmmm.... as plausible a theory as any. Certainly more plausible than me ranking Jeremy and MAtt number 3 and 5. I submit that you and Paul are the same poster. You are in almost everyone of his threads backing him up and come to think of it just before this thread I disagreed with him in two of his threads. As you would say "The timing" is right and Thats "obviously proof enough for me" lol. You've been caught - the plot thickens!

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The fact that you are the only one going on about it for multiple posts is proof enough that you should be included among those under suspicion. SO what Yuke? You behind that site and put my name up top so that you could try and claim it was me faking rep?

Damn Yukon, is that my deserve for showing all my love to you, spot #45.

Damn I hate you!

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yukon Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Damn Yukon, is that my deserve for showing all my love to you, spot #45.

Damn I hate you!

I'll have what he's drinking.
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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The fact that you are the only one going on about it for multiple posts is proof enough that you should be included among those under suspicion. SO what Yuke? You behind that site and put my name up top so that you could try and claim it was me faking rep?

Hmmm.... as plausible a theory as any. Certainly more plausible than me ranking Jeremy and MAtt number 3 and 5. I submit that you and Paul are the same poster. You are in almost everyone of his threads backing him up and come to think of it just before this thread I disagreed with him in two of his threads. As you would say "The timing" is right and Thats "obviously proof enough for me" lol. You've been caught - the plot thickens!

Mik,

I keep going on because you always need that last comment.

Lol, If you think Paul & I are the same person have a Mod check our IPs, see how that works out.

Remember I didn't make the list, but hey I got my hopes up for the next list. How often does that list get updated?

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by warrior50

Hope that warrrior50 will settle some of the debates based on results and feedback from users - before clicking the link I have absolutely no affiliation with any of the posters on this thread.

In beta - will be fully functional in June.

www.warrior50.com

I never signed myself up for that list, so although I'm only at spot #45 while I think I deserve to be a lot higher, I still feel honored to be named in that list as I never heard of it

Anyway you have to increase my points for feedback, and place me above Matt La Clear at least! LOL

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

I never signed myself up for that list, so although I'm only at spot #45 while I think I deserve to be a lot higher, I still feel honored to be named in that list as I never heard of it

Anyway you have to increase my points for feedback, and place me above Matt La Clear at least! LOL

Any list that has to do with SEO and Matt makes the top 500 for is complete and utter bull****.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Any list that has to do with SEO and Matt makes the top 500 for is complete and utter bull****.

LOL, I am in the list, and you, and my biggest idol Mike
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Mantasmo

13 years ago

In on page six, woot!

Can't believe this thread is still going strong.

My contribution (epic mash up, lol):

How to Rank #1 on Google - By Matt Cutts -...

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

and Ummm eljeffe, Bam, Marc the people have spoken

Warrior50 | Warrior rankings for warrior forum providers

I don't post that because I am going off of testimonies but as scientific research to see what happens when anger causes the human head to explode. ROFL

P.S. thanks for whoever voted and the reviewers. I might have brought it up in jest but I find it very humbling and it makes me want to do more to deserve it and keep improving whatever I offer here.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

and Ummm eljeffe, Bam, Marc the people have spoken

Warrior50 | Warrior rankings for warrior forum providers

I don't post that because I am going off of testimonies but as scientific research to see what happens when anger causes the human head to explode. ROFL

P.S. thanks for whoever voted and the reviewers. I might have brought it up in jest but I find it very humbling and it makes me want to do more to deserve it and keep improving whatever I offer here.

LMFAO!

Do you own that domain, ha, ha?

What's the data from, or is it just random numbers?

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

and Ummm eljeffe, Bam, Marc the people have spoken

Warrior50 | Warrior rankings for warrior forum providers

I don't post that because I am going off of testimonies but as scientific research to see what happens when anger causes the human head to explode. ROFL

P.S. thanks for whoever voted and the reviewers. I might have brought it up in jest but I find it very humbling and it makes me want to do more to deserve it and keep improving whatever I offer here.

The real list should probably be who makes the most money selling SEO on this forum. There would be no contest then. We probably spend more in bumps than what most people make on their WSO's.

I didn't realize Michael had a WSO. Where's the link?

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warrior50

13 years ago

Hi Yukon

given it's out there - whole site pulled togther at the weekend been working on this for a while on and off just never had time to get it done, small team of people helping will need to get more independent reviewers. I will PM you now- an no not posted under a different name I am not Mike or Nik0 OR Yukon with a split personality disorder and no, you don't have any services ( I am sure you used to) maybe not. Also fella - not sure what is fishy about this - let me PM you and maybe you will have concerns allayed - the site has no commercial benefit to me or any warrior. There is Youkon, I am sure you will agree a host of services on here that do not offer any value - which ones ? All down to opinion - just putting something together that represents best feedback from users of site and services.

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warrior50

13 years ago

Added a bit of humor to an otherwise dull day then !
In due course hope the site will earn its spurs.

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wilsonm

13 years ago

I think Matt LaClear made a killing with his SEO offering on Warrior forum, It worked for a long time but sadly, like most things in life, it came to an end.

A question for nik0: Am I right to say you build web2.0s for customers based on pretty much spun, meshup LSI rich content. It is stuff which don't neccsarily read too well?

If so, like Matt LaClear, it might work beautifully now but come 3 months, 6 months...it'll pobably all end in tears.

Apologies if I misunderstood your link building techniques.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by wilsonm

I think Matt LaClear made a killing with his SEO offering on Warrior forum, It worked for a long time but sadly, like most things in life, it came to an end.

A question for nik0: Am I right to say you build web2.0s for customers based on pretty much spun, meshup LSI rich content. It is stuff which don't neccsarily read too well?

If so, like Matt LaClear, it might work beautifully now but come 3 months, 6 months...it'll pobably all end in tears.

Apologies if I misunderstood your link building techniques.

What is meshup? Is that same like messed up?

Actually it reads very well and the grammar/spelling is all correct. Only the storyline doesn't make much sense as we grab random paragraphs from high relevant articles. Google won't be able to detect that in a 1000 years. Now if it were just some random non related articles that we grabbed paragraphs from then it would be a different story ofcourse. But these articles are way too tight related so it's only good.

To ensure it remains readable we use a very tight word spinning, never more then 1 synonym so we get a perfect match.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

What is meshup? Is that same like messed up?

Actually it reads very well and the grammar/spelling is all correct. Only the storyline doesn't make much sense as we grab random paragraphs from high relevant articles. Google won't be able to detect that in a 1000 years. Now if it were just some random non related articles that we grabbed paragraphs from then it would be a different story ofcourse. But these articles are way too tight related so it's only good.

To ensure it remains readable we use a very tight word spinning, never more then 1 synonym so we get a perfect match.

Ghasp, you're stealing content?!

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Ghasp, you're stealing content?!

I have a PLR collection of 200.000 articles!
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- Marc_L 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by nik0
  
  I have a PLR collection of 200.000 articles!
  
  ah, cool then.
  
  Thanks
  
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  nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Marc_L
  
  ah, cool then.
  
  Hahaha, you are one of a kind
  
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wilsonm

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Actually it reads very well and the grammar/spelling is all correct. Only the storyline doesn't make much sense as we grab random paragraphs from high relevant articles. Google won't be able to detect that in a 1000 years.

So you are basically gaming the system in order for effectiveness in terms of speed and to offer reasonable prices to customer. The Google computer might not detect it but what about a manual inspection. Unlikely but you never know. As for the future, no one can really tell what is going to happen.

You don't neccessarily need to be involed in something for the long haul to make a financial success. On that basis, it is fantastic. I will definately check the services.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by wilsonm

So you are basically gaming the system in order for effectiveness in terms of speed and to offer reasonable prices to customer. The Google computer might not detect it but what about a manual inspection. Unlikely but you never know. As for the future, no one can really tell what is going to happen.

You don't neccessarily need to be involed in something for the long haul to make a financial success. On that basis, it is fantastic. I will definately check the services.

Yeah you take the words out of my mouth. You have to game them for these prices, in one way or another. Take a look at Mike Anthony, he builds private networks for his clients, isn't that gaming the system as well? Just gaming on a higher level. For example buying aged domains all leave a footprint that they've been dropped before, manual reviewers might look at that as well, and in fact every single professional SEO company out their does these things. So no one is really save when you look at it from that perspective.

Manual inspection, yeah what shall I say. It's not that my clients target impossible keywords so I don't think there will be that much manual inspection taking place really so I think we can risk it.

Also I dont think manual reviewers will really read a whole article, so if they just read the first paragraph or a few random paragrahps then it should still be good cause the paragraphs all read very well on their own.

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wilsonm

13 years ago

I just checked out your services, the $69 package seems really good. I really don't have time to do all this myself so will definately buy this when my site is up. The most important thing is that I make a profit for the time I put into these endeavours.

Originally Posted by nik0

Yeah you take the words out of my mouth. You have to game them for these prices, in one way or another. Take a look at Mike Anthony, he builds private networks for his clients, isn't that gaming the system as well? Just gaming on a higher level. For example buying aged domains all leave a footprint that they've been dropped before, manual reviewers might look at that as well, and in fact every single professional SEO company out their does these things. So no one is really save when you look at it from that perspective.

Manual inspection, yeah what shall I say. It's not that my clients target impossible keywords so I don't think there will be that much manual inspection taking place really so I think we can risk it.

Also I dont think manual reviewers will really read a whole article, so if they just read the first paragraph or a few random paragrahps then it should still be good cause the paragraphs all read very well on their own.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by wilsonm

I just checked out your services, the $69 package seems really good. I really don't have time to do all this myself so will definately buy this when my site is up. The most important thing is that I make a profit for the time I put into these endeavours.

Thanks, I really tried to make it as innocent as possible indeed.
If Google is ever gonna penalize a site for these links then I quit SEO.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Yeah you take the words out of my mouth. You have to game them for these prices, in one way or another. Take a look at Mike Anthony, he builds private networks for his clients, isn't that gaming the system as well? Just gaming on a higher level.

Cough cough ahem. umm..Nik0 my dear lad...My customer acquire business assets and leverage those assets for the betterment of their sister companies just as any offline business would. You never hear of Disney.com buying Abc.com and utilizing ABC's outreach as "Gaming the system". Its called good business.

For example buying aged domains all leave a footprint that they've been dropped before

Bzzzzzzz Wrong. Someone has not taken my course. You acquire the domains BEFORE they are dropped.

manual reviewers might look at that as well, and in fact every single professional SEO company out their does these things. So no one is really save when you look at it from that perspective

What are manual reviewers going to look at now. The fact that a domain has been registered before is exactly what kind of footprint? and um just because I advertise a course on building networks please do not get the impression its the only thing in my tool case. I don't share half of that here because most of them are not push button and some require ALOT of work that frankly someone who is running an MFA wouldn't want to bother with.

Also I dont think manual reviewers will really read a whole article, so if they just read the first paragraph or a few random paragrahps then it should still be good cause the paragraphs all read very well on their own.

There was a manual reviewers guide that got leaked not so long ago Nik. You would be surprised at how much training and how much they are told to take a look at.

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retsek

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Cough cough ahem. umm..Nik0 my dear lad...My customer acquire business assets and leverage those assets for the betterment of their sister companies just as any offline business would. You never hear of Disney.com buying Abc.com and utilizing ABC's outreach as "Gaming the system". Its called good business.

No kidding. Good examples more close to home are eHow and everydayhealth. They've bought out hundreds of other properties and either redirect or link to their homepage.

eHow even went overboard with it when they were caught a few years back buying up dropped domains directly from a registrar. When it became public, the redirects magically disappeared and domains returned to parked. Google never even lifted a finger.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Cough cough ahem. umm..Nik0 my dear lad...My customer acquire business assets and leverage those assets for the betterment of their sister companies just as any offline business would. You never hear of Disney.com buying Abc.com and utilizing ABC's outreach as "Gaming the system". Its called good business.

I just bought 30 domains for my large client, with his keyword in it and then local cities added, so you could consider it as franchises for example, is that considered good business?

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Bzzzzzzz Wrong. Someone has not taken my course. You acquire the domains BEFORE they are dropped.

Hmm yeah registration ended and they are in waiting period, is not directly dropped indeed. Got me there.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

What are manual reviewers going to look at now. The fact that a domain has been registered before is exactly what kind of footprint? and um just because I advertise a course on building networks please do not get the impression its the only thing in my tool case. I don't share half of that hear because most of them are not push button and some require ALOT of work that frankly someone who is running an MFA wouldn't want to bother with.

I know this is not your complete strategy but just a part I lighted up.
When a site has a lot of homepage links though and they have ALL been registered before then it might look suspicious. But as you say, you do a lot more and make it look natural so guess it's okay from that point of view.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

There was a manual reviewers guide that got leaked not so long ago Nik. You would be surprised at how much training and how much they are told to take a look at.

I heard about that guide indeed but people are lazy you know, you can tell them a 100 times to read the whole article for example but 9 out of 10 won't. People always look for shortcuts, especially when they work for an employer from home.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wilsonm

I think Matt LaClear made a killing with his SEO offering on Warrior forum, It worked for a long time but sadly, like most things in life, it came to an end.

It's ok if you don't know what you're talking about but our sales are doing just fine. Our offerings HAVE changed, we just came out with a Web 2.0 package yesterday that's pretty sick. Our page one services don't use any spun content anymore. We've had 100+ page ones (10 yesterday) since Penguin dropped.

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wilsonm

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

It's ok if you don't know what you're talking about but our sales are doing just fine. Our offerings HAVE changed, we just came out with a Web 2.0 package yesterday that's pretty sick. Our page one services don't use any spun content anymore. We've had 100+ page ones (10 yesterday) since Penguin dropped.

I don't know what you mean by "...you don't know what your are talking about..." but the fact is the previous offering used serious spun crap which resulted in lots of sites tanking. In all honesty, I would not blame anyone for offering those type of services because, at the time, they worked and helped to game the system. I am sure some people who took advanatge of such services a while back, made a good return on investment, while it worked.

Just out of curousity, how are the web 2.0 non spun content backlinked? If you going for going for scrapebox, wiki blasts and the rest of the spammy links, it is going to come back and bite people on the ass, sooner or later. Anyway, I am not in for the long haul. I just want a good return on my investment. I will have a good a look at the latest offering.

If folks are serious about their Internet business, they should run with people like Mike Anthony.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wilsonm

If folks are serious about their Internet business, they should run with people like Mike Anthony.

Thanks Wilson but you all need to ease up on Marc now. this thread has become his nightmare from hell thread. LOL.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Thanks Wilson but you all need to ease up on Marc now. this thread has become his nightmare from hell thread. LOL.

Not at all! Our sales have increased...

Keep it up boys!

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kickmoney 13 years ago

lol & the self pwnage continues.

This thread needs to be euthanized.

#compassion
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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Not at all! Our sales have increased...

Keep it up boys!

Odd how threads work, everyone saw increasements in sales, what ya say guys, every week a new thread like this

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Odd how threads work, everyone saw increasements in sales, what ya say guys, every week a new thread like this

Hey I aint complaining even at the one line posters that keep bumping the thread while complaining about it.

Don't believe what you quoted from Marc though. Just more spin. No company wants to see bad rep and hes pretty much the point man running all over several forums trying to squelch it.

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Mantasmo 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Hey I aint complaining even at the one line posters that keep bumping the thread.

Hmmmm. Oh wait.

lol it's a disease, I can't help myself.

edit: hey you edited your post after I quoted it. WASSUP!
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- nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bnetwork
  
  Hmmmm. Oh wait.
  
  lol it's a disease, I can't help myself.
  
  edit: hey you edited your post after I quoted it. WASSUP!
  
  Wow, a 4 liner :p
  
  Thanks
  
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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Hey I aint complaining even at the one line posters that keep bumping the thread while complaining about it.

Don't believe what you quoted from Marc though. Just more spin. No company wants to see bad rep and hes pretty much the point man running all over several forums trying to squelch it.

If it makes him happy

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Don't believe what you quoted from Marc though. Just more spin. No company wants to see bad rep and hes pretty much the point man running all over several forums trying to squelch it.

I haven't posted in any forums in quite some time much less squelching dissent, I wouldn't call that "running all over".

Bottom line is that there isn't much of that going on no matter what you try to suggest.

edit: plus I got you to put me on ignore so this thread has served many purposes.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wilsonm

I don't know what you mean by "...you don't know what your are talking about..." but the fact is the previous offering used serious spun crap which resulted in lots of sites tanking.

The way you worded it made it sound like the party was over when that couldn't be further from the truth. Your last point is debatable as well.

If you meant that our old model is dead then fine but it didn't sound like this is what you were saying.

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wilsonm

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

It's ok if you don't know what you're talking about but our sales are doing just fine. Our offerings HAVE changed, we just came out with a Web 2.0 package yesterday that's pretty sick. Our page one services don't use any spun content anymore. We've had 100+ page ones (10 yesterday) since Penguin dropped.

_
I think "...you don't know what you're talking about..." within Marc_L's post is a NLP thing used to negate the origional comment which basically discredited the previous SEO offering by this user.

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kickmoney

13 years ago

Mike Anthony:

>>Says is leaving thread.
>>Responds to every new post with a WALL OF TEXT

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kickmoney

13 years ago

OP = best troll ever.

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SarahMcCrary

13 years ago

I was having the same problem before. I purchased link building packages from some random WF member but got no results. Infact I lost all the rankings that I had before hiring that person. I did research to find out reliable SEO company and found out affordable-seo-services.com on WF. Now, 5 high competition keywords out of 7 I selected are on 1st page and other 2 keywords are on 4th and 7th page on google.com. They did pretty good job for my website. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by SarahMcCrary

I was having the same problem before. I purchased link building packages from some random WF member but got no results. Infact I lost all the rankings that I had before hiring that person. I did research to find out reliable SEO company and found out affordable-seo-services.com on WF. Now, 5 high competition keywords out of 7 I selected are on 1st page and other 2 keywords are on 4th and 7th page on google.com. They did pretty good job for my website. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

OMG that domain sounds so legit I BETTER GET ON IT NOW!

Is it true that if I send in my homepage for backlinking all of the inner pages go straight to page one as well?

edit: wait, when you recommend yourself, does it still count?

edit 2: nothing can be explained. true/false?

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Magento developer

13 years ago

Before proceeding with them, check their previous work and their progress. I usually follow this method while picking up a special seo specialist.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

The website looks nice though
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- Mantasmo 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by nik0
  
  The website looks nice though
  
  What website? :confused:
  
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  nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bnetwork
  
  What website? :confused:
  
  This one: affordable-seo-services.com
  
  Thanks
  
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ttdub

13 years ago

I'd hire myself to be honest...

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Zibblu

13 years ago

To Nik0 - Retweets definitely don't work? I should definitely cancel the Retweet service I just started up with a couple of weeks ago?

... anyone else have an opinion on this? ... they (the retweet people) made it seem like such a winner

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Zibblu

To Nik0 - Retweets definitely don't work? I should definitely cancel the Retweet service I just started up with a couple of weeks ago?

... anyone else have an opinion on this? ... they (the retweet people) made it seem like such a winner

I very recently tanked a client site hard with 500 retweets, and my own site got completely deindexed after 500 retweets. With lightning speed I removed it out of my package. Ofcourse it's not 100% proof but I can't imagine any of the other links could have caused it. I expect all the twitter accounts that retweeted to be banned or something and thus losing a lot of links, again not 100% sure but that's the most logical explanation imo.

Anyway, I made a deal with the client so all is good, luckily it was a brand new site.

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

@Mike & Yukon: Comeon guys don't fight, I am both your fanboy, I am sitting hear with tears in my eye's.

Come go tease Marc and Matt again
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- Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by nik0
  
  @Mike & Yukon: Comeon guys don't fight, I am both your fanboy, I am sitting hear with tears in my eye's.
  
  Come go tease Marc and Matt again
  
  LOl. You aren't fooling anyone Nik. You just like the sales from this thread. Where is our commission?
  
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  nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  LOl. You aren't fooling anyone Nik. You just like the sales from this thread. Where is our commission?
  
  Haven't you received it :confused: ?
  
  All those damn hackers in cyber space, I should have listened to my grandma!
  
  I have something cool coming up very soon though, watch your pm box these days
  
  Thanks
  
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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

and my own site got completely deindexed after 500 retweets.

Sorry nik0, I don't buy this. De-indexed because you bought re-tweets (and did you mean tweets or re-tweets anyway)?

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nik0 Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Sorry nik0, I don't buy this. De-indexed because you bought re-tweets (and did you mean tweets or re-tweets anyway)?

It was pretty obvious, I hadn't build links to that site for a couple months, I buy 500 retweets (they twitter something and get it retweet 500 times), 2-3 days later site deindexed.

I had a client with a brand new site, we also build other links, docsharing, video submission, manual web2.0s, social links (all small portions 25 links here, 25 links there etc), we add the retweets, he moved from position 600 to 65 or something, 2-3 days later, poof his site tanks at #750.
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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Sorry nik0, I don't buy this. De-indexed because you bought re-tweets (and did you mean tweets or re-tweets anyway)?

There has to be another reason for the deindex. It can't be this easy to get a site removed.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

It was pretty obvious, I hadn't build links to that site for a couple months, I buy 500 retweets (they twitter something and get it retweet 500 times), 2-3 days later site deindexed.

I had a client with a brand new site, we also build other links, docsharing, video submission, manual web2.0s, social links (all small portions 25 links here, 25 links there etc), we add the retweets, he moved from position 600 to 65 or something, 2-3 days later, poof his site tanks at #750.

Originally Posted by Marc_L

There has to be another reason for the deindex. It can't be this easy to get a site removed.

Yeah... I still don't buy it. Legit sites/articles get thousands of re-tweets in a very short amount of time, de-indexing just doesn't make sense. It' nearly impossible to de-index a site with just backlinks.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Yeah well, what else can I say, the site didn't receive anything else,

2-3 months before it got 100 links at high pr society, 1 article submitted to UAW, MAN, AR. A small senukex campaign, but that is all 2-3 months ago.

Then I didnt do anything but bought 500 retweets and poof it was deindexed, and yes it was a pretty thin micro niche site.

Check yourself Maytag dishwasher parts

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Yeah well, what else can I say, the site didn't receive anything else,

2-3 months before it got 100 links at high pr society, 1 article submitted to UAW, MAN, AR. A small senukex campaign, but that is all 2-3 months ago.

Then I didnt do anything but bought 500 retweets and poof it was deindexed, and yes it was a pretty thin micro niche site.

Check yourself Maytag dishwasher parts

I had a bunch of similar websites back in 2009 and got a GWT message along the lines of "your website doesn't meet our quality guidelines" or something similar. I quickly removed all Adsense ads from them, because I figured that an Adsense ban might follow soon (reading through their TOS it says not to display ads on low quality websites). It was all on page, those sites merely had 5 backlinks each back then. And yes, they got de-indexed.

It wasn't the tweets or anything to do with backlinks in your clients case, trust me.

edit: my sites we're online for 2-3 months and had Adsense on them for a good month before receiving the message. I don't know what triggered it though - something to do with site quality.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

I had a bunch of similar websites back in 2009 and got a GWT message along the lines of "your website doesn't meet our quality guidelines" or something similar. I quickly removed all Adsense ads from them, because I figured that an Adsense ban might follow soon (reading through their TOS it says not to display ads on low quality websites). It was all on page, those sites merely had 5 backlinks each back then. And yes, they got de-indexed.

It wasn't the tweets or anything to do with backlinks in your clients case, trust me.

edit: my sites we're online for 2-3 months and had Adsense on them for a good month before receiving the message. I don't know what triggered it though - something to do with site quality.

Yeah this sure is a low quality crappy site, totally aware of that, but the site from my client that tanked hard right after the retweets was a pretty nice looking site, he later on told me he paid like 150 euro for the design and it looked pretty custom. Bit vague topic though and the typical EMD with 5 words or so in it. So yeah not a very great site but definetly a lot better then the site I just showed you.

Forgot to mention that this maytag site is a project from me and my VA, we had plans to launch a lot of micro sites but we got to busy with clients, he got the domain through some free deal for 1 year free, some trick or something, maybe thats another reason why it got deindexed cause the free concept was more meant for people who create hobby sites, and not to make it a money site with brand name in it

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scottmacair

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Yeah well, what else can I say, the site didn't receive anything else,

2-3 months before it got 100 links at high pr society, 1 article submitted to UAW, MAN, AR. A small senukex campaign, but that is all 2-3 months ago.

Then I didnt do anything but bought 500 retweets and poof it was deindexed, and yes it was a pretty thin micro niche site.

Check yourself Maytag dishwasher parts

My guess is it was the 100 links from HPRS. Google busted that network big time and dealt their linklicious site a blow just for good measure. Although I don't know for sure I can't see any of the other links you mentioned causing it.

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wizzard1222

13 years ago

Why limit yourself to WSO...?

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

How do you guys manage to have so much free time? Less arguing, acquire more money!

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Grant

How do you guys manage to have so much free time? Less arguing, acquire more money!

No one here makes money online. I don't even know what you're saying.

edit: man I just read your post on the other WF, then came here saw your post and it's like WOAH I've seen that face somewhere!

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

No one here makes money online. I don't even know what you're saying.

edit: man I just read your post on the other WF, then came here saw your post and it's like WOAH I've seen that face somewhere!

LOL

It's just magic

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Grant

How do you guys manage to have so much free time? Less arguing, acquire more money!

Oh shush up. What are you doing still reading? Anyway since you are pimping that sig I will take two penguin clubbers, no mayo, extra cheese, side order of Fries with some link juice and two cubes of ice (just hold the .infos - they repeat on me and give me a bad case of indelinkexation). Make it snappy too.

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Oh shush up. What are you doing still reading? Anyway since you are pimping that sig I will take two penguin clubbers, no mayo, extra cheese, side order of Fries with some link juice and two cubes of ice (just hold the .infos - they repeat on me and give me a bad case of indelinkexation). Make it snappy too.

PR NA .info is all I have left in stock!

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MikeFriedman 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Grant

PR NA .info is all I have left in stock!

Hey I think I know a guy that might be interested in those... :rolleyes:
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Grant

PR NA .info is all I have left in stock!

The Mike SEO club hereby officially decertifies your membership. We take any member having a sufficient quantity of .infos as a tacit admission that they are about to offer negative SEO services. Its no different than a Taliban being found in possession of radioactive material directy indicates terrorist intent.

You are hereby disavowed -please turn in your membership pin And Google database room key card to avoid forceable seizure - You are OUT!

Originally Posted by yukon

Mik,
Remember I didn't make the list

Won't work Yuke - you already been busted.

How often does that list get updated?

I dunno Yuke. I guess as soon as you stop forum posting, log into the hosting account and you or your VA update it I guess. lol.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The Mike SEO club hereby officially decertifies your membership. We take any member having a sufficient quantity of .infos as a tacit admission that they are about to offer negative SEO services. Its no different than a Taliban being found in possession of radioactive material directy indicates terrorist intent.

You are hereby disavowed -please turn in your membership pin And Google database room key card to avoid forceable seizure - You are OUT!

Won't work Yuke - you already been busted.

I dunno Yuke. I guess as soon as you stop forum posting, log into the hosting account and you or your VA update it I guess. lol.

Well, at least you have a system now, Mik, keep us updated on how you rank.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Well, at least you have a system now, Mik, keep us updated on how you rank.

Sure always glad to be of service. Heres the recent update

Warrior50 | Warrior rankings for warrior forum providers

oops still number one at this time. Your VA sucks by the way

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sure always glad to be of service. Heres the recent update

Warrior50 | Warrior rankings for warrior forum providers

oops still number one at this time. Your VA sucks by the way

Well at least your out ranking your competition. Now all you have to do is plaster your link all over the .net, Oh... wait you've already started that, lol.

I understand it's all about getting more sales, it's all good.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Well at least your out ranking your competition. Now all you have to do is plaster your link all over the .net, Oh... wait you've already started that, lol.

I understand it's all about getting more sales, it's all good.

I'm gonna neg seo that site sooooo HARD that it won't show up for years!

Won't be very hard, I just sign up for Matt's guaranteed page one ranking :p

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yukon Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

I'm gonna neg seo that site sooooo HARD that it won't show up for years!

Won't be very hard, I just sign up for Matt's guaranteed page one ranking :p

I'm sure Mik wouldn't be happy about that.

Just create a new site & you can be #1.
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- nik0 Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  I'm sure Mik wouldn't be happy about that.
  
  Just create a new site & you can be #1.
  
  Mike doesn't have to worry, I would put him on #2, right where he belongs :p
  
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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

I'm gonna neg seo that site sooooo HARD that it won't show up for years!

Won't be very hard, I just sign up for Matt's guaranteed page one ranking :p

Just because you sell 1/100th of what we do doesn't mean you can keep talking about us like you have any idea on what you're talking about. If you're jealous, then fine but you should really concentrate on growing your business instead of taking cheap shots at ours.

Get off of our coat tales and make something of your own business. But go ahead and sign that site up for our page one service, all you'll do is get them to page one.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

Just because you sell 1/100th of what we do doesn't mean you can keep talking about us like you have any idea on what you're talking about. If you're jealous, then fine but you should really concentrate on growing your business instead of taking cheap shots at ours.

Get off of our coat tales and make something of your own business. But go ahead and sign that site up for our page one service, all you'll do is get them to page one.

Lol take it easy man

You explained you improved your service so let's hope it works out well.

I'm not jealous, the work is killing me at the moment. 20-30 emails a day and 5 skype requests is more then enough right now.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Lol take it easy man

You explained you improved your service so let's hope it works out well.

I'm not jealous, the work is killing me at the moment. 20-30 emails a day and 5 skype requests is more then enough right now.

Then run your business and stop talking about ours.

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

There you go. Fixed it.

Same goes to you, why don't you go run your business instead of talking crap about ours?

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

I'm not jealous, the work is killing me at the moment. 20-30 emails a day and 5 skype requests is more then enough right now.

Thats why you should have compassion Nik. Since Marc must have known your business volume when he said 1/100th it stands to reason he takes 3,000 emails a day and 500 skype calls per day. Which means he processes 20.83 skype calls per hour in between 125 emails with no sleep and a bag load of Cuban coffee with small paper cups.

That would make anybody cranky especially if they started out that way to begin with.

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Marc_L

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Thats why you should have compassion Nik. Since Marc must have known your business volume when he said 1/100th it stands to reason he takes 3,000 emails a day and 500 skype calls per day. Which means he processes 20.83 skype calls per hour in between 125 emails with no sleep and a bag load of Cuban coffee with small paper cups.

That would make anybody cranky especially if they started out that way to begin with.

Ok, 1/100th might have been a tinge of an exaggeration.

Although we do have one full time and a half time support person answering most of these emails. But as we all know emails are not sales.

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Thats why you should have compassion Nik. Since Marc must have known your business volume when he said 1/100th it stands to reason he takes 3,000 emails a day and 500 skype calls per day. Which means he processes 20.83 skype calls per hour in between 125 emails with no sleep and a bag load of Cuban coffee with small paper cups.

That would make anybody cranky especially if they started out that way to begin with.

LOL, sure got a point there

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MikeFriedman 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc_L

But go ahead and sign that site up for our page one service, all you'll do is get them to page one hundred.

There you go. Fixed it.
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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Well at least your out ranking your competition. Now all you have to do is plaster your link all over the .net, Oh... wait you've already started that, lol.

I understand it's all about getting more sales, it's all good.

. You know a guy is getting desperate when on a marketing board his one come back is about the other guy making money. ROFL .

But Yo I am straight up with my sig. Its not like I'm pimping adsense to my unsuspecting site users.

But umm you going for lie number two in this thread Yuke. You can't find a single link I placed anywhere outside of my sig on WF much less all over the .net. When can we expect lie number three?

I'm gonna neg seo that site sooooo HARD that it won't show up for years!

NIk you have no idea how sad you will make the owner feel when he loses the the two search queries (or less) a month for Warrior rankings. I bet his whole business model was attracting those two Golden State basketball fans.

Hey you can try and tank mine too. I been trying to rank my home page for "start it up" for so long you have no idea

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Hey who started this thread?

lulz

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Hey who started this thread?

lulz

You sir are not qualified to ask. The only thing worse than a chipmunk is a chipmunk from europe and the only thing worse than a chipmunk from europe is a chipmunk from europe that has a description of his life in his sig.

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You sir are not qualified to ask. The only thing worse than a chipmunk is a chipmunk from europe and the only thing worse than a chipmunk from europe is a chipmunk from europe that has a description of his life in his sig.

Excellent. Well played, good sire. Well played.

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Masterminding

13 years ago

Originally Posted by raywarrior1978

Hi. I have spend a lot of money on backlink packages from the wf hire section. It pretty obvious that i do not know what I am doing as I just purchased different backlinks packages at different times based on the reviews. The same url and the same keyword. I lost all of my rankings and that is a costly mistake that I have learned from.

My question to you is.

If you had to hire one person from WF to do all of your seo work, who would it be and why?

I see so many great testimonials but then I also read from other wf members that their rankings have drop with that particular service.
So sometimes I think that they are either fake testimonials or maybe those are people that know how to build backlinks in the right order and know which backlink package to buy from and they just want to outsource it.

Also if you wanted to hire one person not only to get your site on page one but on position 1 or 2, who would you hire, why, and what would be the process?

I ask that question before to many seo wf members who provide seo services and they all say they don't do that type of service because is way too difficult or way to expensive.

But as far as I am concern, if you use a tool like market samuraii and you see that website position 1 for the keyword you are trying to rank one has no age domain, only 5 backlinks, a pr0, the keyword in not in the title, description, head and url, not in the yahoo and dmoz directory, then why is that so difficult to acquire a position one and know them out of place?

I don't get it?

I know is different if the competition is hard, but in the above example which applies to some of the sites that I am trying to rank for, would be achieveable.

I just want to find one person who is good at keeping up with all of the new google updates and rank my site for my keyword manually, whitehat, and most importanly natural. Everyone here just offers automatic software backlinks, senukex campaigns, backlinks blast, and all these have done is damage my ranking and I am not making any adsense money anymore.

Hope to hear from you and your recommendations on whom should I go with and don't forget the why...

Word of advice: when it comes to SEO there is no package that scratches the itch of the crappy rankings you're experiencing. SEO is just like having a kid: you have to pay attention, a LOT, and invest time in it, a LOT, and it never stops. Ever. That sounds like a nightmare, but it's not: the moment you do high quality SEO consistently is the moment your sales increase exponentially.

Why is there no package? Because your goal should NEVER be links. NEVER be rankings either. And NEVER be website traffic even. They're all mind games. Mind f*cks. The REAL way of doing SEO is finding keywords with a buying intention and doing everything you can (in the white hat department) to rank well for them. Any good SEO expert will offer you a monthly fee for ALL SEO activities, because he/she knows that SEO never ends.

There is no tool of tools either. I learned how to do SEO by hand as much as possible. I use one tool outside of the tools Google providers. And that's it. The rest is my experience and knowledge. And guess what? The tool I use does not automate a DAMN thing. It checks things and it's updated to incorporate the latest Google updates. That's the only worthwhile tool, because all other tools will keep chasing Google updates and thus be out of date. And besides, tools may say they work but based on what... how many queries? Google processes billions of queries so any tool based on a small data set is CRAP. C-R-A-P.

I'm a brutal truth kind of guy. Hope you appreciate that.

Last but not least: with SEO, the whole is more than the sum of its parts. SEO is not links, not on-page optimization, not social media, not keyword research and not bot access and other technical SEO. It's ALL of them... and more. Do ALL of them... and more.... consistently... and you will get what you want. Don't... and you never will.

Warning: AdSense-heavy sites get punished. Rankings dropped because of spammy link profiles after the Penguin update (Google's most recent update) of April 24th-ish.

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Ben Acharyaa

12 years ago

8 pages of argument for nothing!!! lol but not surprised considering it was mike anthony and niko taking on each other.

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Marc_L

12 years ago

Originally Posted by newarkbadshu

Most people do not check the man who is supplying the Links and then they trust him blindly to find out that they are getting low Pr 1 and Pr0 auto spun AMR or article marketing robot material. Eventhough we all know that AMR links are heavily penalized by google and all those vendors that used AMR were pretty much doing black hat seo. Because of Innocent souls purchasing AMR links their sites got were de indexed or taken out by google storms

Beginning to notice a pattern, fake account.

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LearningChinese 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben Acharyaa

8 pages of argument for nothing!!! lol but not surprised considering it was mike anthony and niko taking on each other.

Well, I found it useful. :-)

Good to see that there is still sound advice. Years ago when I was doing my own SEO I still remember it was people like the Mikes here giving good advice that I listened to. After a few years of outsourcing things it's good to see that not everyone on the formum is recommending or touting the instant rankings for only $99, no will make that 19.99 you just sign up now and as a bonus will submit you to blah blah blah.
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- Mike Anthony 11 years ago
  
  Thanks but a one year two month bump?
  
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If you had to hire someone from wf for seo, who would it be and why?

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