Making a PBN site look natural, what would you do?

11 years ago

For example, if you wanted to promote a dentist's site, you can build a PBN blog focusing on tooth problems and then link to the dentist's site. That's natural enough.

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Banned 11 years ago

Your over thinking it.

Build a real site.

There's no reason a dentist can't own a 2nd, 3rd, etc... site about proper dental hygiene. They could even own a coloring page site (example).

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11 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Your over thinking it.

Build a real site.

There's no reason a dentist can't own a 2nd, 3rd, etc... site about proper dental hygiene. They could even own a coloring page site (example).

I suppose when build sites in this manner you wouldn't be afraid to reveal the same entity owns all sites correct? For example you might nave a name, address, phone number on each network site that shows it belongs to the same entity

In fact, on the main dentist site you could even link to the network sites from the money site.

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by chris_87

I suppose when build sites in this manner you wouldn't be afraid to reveal the same entity owns all sites correct? For example you might nave a name, address, phone number on each network site that shows it belongs to the same entity

In fact, on the main dentist site you could even link to the network sites from the money site.

Yes you can.

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11 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Your over thinking it.

Build a real site.

There's no reason a dentist can't own a 2nd, 3rd, etc... site about proper dental hygiene. They could even own a coloring page site (example).

This is true. You're also assuming someone is going to be reviewing your backlinks, like a Google employee. Honestly if someone at Google is reviewing your PBN odds are you are screwed, so it's really a personal decision if you want to go that far out of your way to make your sites look 100% natural.

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11 years ago

try to use content from the archive version

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by tbtb123

try to use content from the archive version

Always a bit tricky as you deal with copyright issue's.
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11 years ago

I don't work with PBN's but to be honest I don't know if you really can.

What I would do is try to make the sites look like affiliate sites, or maybe a resource "top 10" site and link out to competitors that will never rank anyway if that makes any sense at all.

I would be careful though, if you're under a manual review it can be difficult to get out unscathed.

What about buying other already existing sites in the niche and adding in a link somewhere? I bet that would look more natural, just a thought.

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Slin

I don't work with PBN's but to be honest I don't know if you really can.

What I would do is try to make the sites look like affiliate sites, or maybe a resource "top 10" site and link out to competitors that will never rank anyway if that makes any sense at all.

I would be careful though, if you're under a manual review it can be difficult to get out unscathed.

What about buying other already existing sites in the niche and adding in a link somewhere? I bet that would look more natural, just a thought.

Top 5 or top 10 type of site would be a big waste of link juice.

Buying existing sites would be too expensive as I work with small budgets.

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11 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Top 5 or top 10 type of site would be a big waste of link juice.

Buying existing sites would be too expensive as I work with small budgets.

If they aren't paying too much I would just make a basic website and not worry too much about it. Could you set up a special package that's more expensive but looks more natural?

I could see losing link juice with a top 10 style website, but what if you did a top 3 and linked out to authorities in the niche like Wikipedia? I've found that linking out to authorities strengthens my incoming link juice.

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Slin

If they aren't paying too much I would just make a basic website and not worry too much about it. Could you set up a special package that's more expensive but looks more natural?

I could see losing link juice with a top 10 style website, but what if you did a top 3 and linked out to authorities in the niche like Wikipedia? I've found that linking out to authorities strengthens my incoming link juice.

That would be an option yes, it's just that it will hardly get sold using my current advertising sources but that can change as well of course.

You have any data about linking out to authority sites strengthing your incoming link juice? I hear many people saying it but there's not even the slightest evidence to back it up. Personally I've never seen any differences in rankings whether I link out to authority sites or not. I had a batch of sites that each linked out to 3 authority sites in the sidebar, the authorities were the actual manufacturers of the products I sold as an affiliate. When I removed those links from the sidebar the rankings stayed exactly the same.

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11 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

That would be an option yes, it's just that it will hardly get sold using my current advertising sources but that can change as well of course.

You have any data about linking out to authority sites strengthing your incoming link juice? I hear many people saying it but there's not even the slightest evidence to back it up. Personally I've never seen any differences in rankings whether I link out to authority sites or not. I had a batch of sites that each linked out to 3 authority sites in the sidebar, the authorities were the actual manufacturers of the products I sold as an affiliate. When I removed those links from the sidebar the rankings stayed exactly the same.

Well you should have been linking out to authority sites in your article, not you sidebar, but you're right: no one has ever proved it one way or the other.

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Laubster

Well you should have been linking out to authority sites in your article, not you sidebar, but you're right: no one has ever proved it one way or the other.

If there's never been any proof or indications then why would it matter whether I link from the article or sidebar

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11 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

If there's never been any proof or indications then why would it matter whether I link from the article or sidebar

Lol, true, but just in the sense that contextual links carry more weight than sidebar/footer. If they're next to the link to your money site theory says they would have a bigger impact than simply being somewhere on the website.

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Laubster

Lol, true, but just in the sense that contextual links carry more weight than sidebar/footer. If they're next to the link to your money site theory says they would have a bigger impact than simply being somewhere on the website.

I get what you mean

But if we really look at theory then rankings should drop when linking out to authority sites, afterall the link juice gets divided among number of internal + external links, so when you link out to other sites there is less link juice going to your other pages, and thus less link juice to come back to the page in question.

So even if there is a tiny benefit from linking out to authority sites it probably gets absorbed by the link juice that you give away.

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11 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

That would be an option yes, it's just that it will hardly get sold using my current advertising sources but that can change as well of course.

You have any data about linking out to authority sites strengthing your incoming link juice? I hear many people saying it but there's not even the slightest evidence to back it up. Personally I've never seen any differences in rankings whether I link out to authority sites or not. I had a batch of sites that each linked out to 3 authority sites in the sidebar, the authorities were the actual manufacturers of the products I sold as an affiliate. When I removed those links from the sidebar the rankings stayed exactly the same.

Good point, all I can tell you is the tests that I have done, however they are about a year old, and we all know SEO moves quickly, I should redo them.

I had 2 blogs. I pointed articles from Unique Article Wizard at both of them. With one of the blogs all links I pointed to them only pointed to that blog. With the other blog I linked out to authority sites in that niche and linked back to the blog.

The second blog ranked much better than the first, got indexed faster, and got a lot more traffic. Now of course there are many other factors that could be in play but I really feel like it made a difference. I did the same test a few more times and came up with the same results.

Of course it looks like your results were different then mine. You didn't find that it hurt rankings at all did you? I bet it still couldn't hurt to try, and would probably help your PBN look a little bit more natural as well.

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Slin

Good point, all I can tell you is the tests that I have done, however they are about a year old, and we all know SEO moves quickly, I should redo them.

I had 2 blogs. I pointed articles from Unique Article Wizard at both of them. With one of the blogs all links I pointed to them only pointed to that blog. With the other blog I linked out to authority sites in that niche and linked back to the blog.

The second blog ranked much better than the first, got indexed faster, and got a lot more traffic. Now of course there are many other factors that could be in play but I really feel like it made a difference. I did the same test a few more times and came up with the same results.

Of course it looks like your results were different then mine. You didn't find that it hurt rankings at all did you? I bet it still couldn't hurt to try, and would probably help your PBN look a little bit more natural as well.

Thought you were talking about linking out to authority sites on your money site / blog, instead of using it in the blog posts linking to your site.

I will do a few tests myself in that way to see if it makes any difference. Will try to set up two largely identical sites for that, just with different content and see what happens. Would be great if it worked that way.

We did link out to authority sites for a while in our blog posts but I never made any comparisons back then, sole reason was indeed to make the PBN more natural, however with changing writers over time that probably ended, got to check.

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11 years ago

Hop on Internet Archive: Wayback Machine. Look at the history of the site and re-create it.

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11 years ago

One private homepage link service I have been using in beta does it pretty well. They build each site as if it were a real site, logos, content, and everything. This makes it very hard to tell what's a real link vs. a PBN.

Best I've seen yet when you look at how all of the other link services do it these days.

My guess though is getting sites setup like that isn't cheap.

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11 years ago

Originally Posted by netanel23

My guess though is getting sites setup like that isn't cheap.

It is not so much that it is really expensive, although good content can cost a few bucks (a good network site is not ordering content for $3 from iWriter and junk like that), but it is very time consuming. You'll never see anyone offering links like that to the masses in a WSO or anything like that.
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Banned 11 years ago

Money isn't a big deal with content or sites in the OP example considering it's not uncommon for a lawyer, dentist, plumber, etc... to earn $150K a year. Besides, it's a business expense.

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Money isn't a big deal with content or sites in the OP example considering it's not uncommon for a lawyer, dentist, plumber, etc... to earn $150K a year. Besides, it's a business expense.

Money is definitely an issue, they might earn $150k year but I get paid $129/month

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Money is definitely an issue, they might earn $150k year but I get paid $129/month

The same businesses are probably spending $100 a day advertising in their local Sunday newspaper & not getting very many leads.

Maybe rethink your own business strategy because If there's no budget for SEO expenses you'll be lucky to break even.

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11 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

The same businesses are probably spending $100 a day advertising in their local Sunday newspaper & not getting very many leads.

Maybe rethink your own business strategy because If there's no budget for SEO expenses you'll be lucky to break even.

This is right. You gotta negotiate based on what you bring to the table. You should be earning WAY more than that assuming you can deliver.

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11 years ago

Yeah if it's for local sites you need to charge a lot more.

My minimum is $500, and if they want a less expensive service they can go with it, but I definitely deliver results.

I am assuming that you do too, if it's too much work for the money up the price.

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Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Slin

Yeah if it's for local sites you need to charge a lot more.

My minimum is $500, and if they want a less expensive service they can go with it, but I definitely deliver results.

I am assuming that you do too, if it's too much work for the money up the price.

I can rank most local sites with the budget that I have, but for the tougher local niches I definitely need to increase prices yes cause it's just not doable.

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