[Rus Sells]

Current membership site software like Wishlist, etc doesn't play well with Paypal because the script is build as a plugin for WordPress so you can't automatically
pass on the data from Paypal and automatically create their membership.

Those who said they are putting everything behind a membership script in order to get around the rules are just ignorant.

It's quite EASY to automatically add paying customers to any auto responder list without the cusomter having to enter any data at all!

I believe sellers are entitled to their buyers emails at a minimum and I believe Paypal for example does as well, hence the option to pass the data on to the product delivery page.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Yes it needs clearing up and yes there are situations where an email before the product is available must be entered.

However, I read somewhere where some were saying they would start putting everything behind a membership script in order to "force" the email capture and get around the new rules - even for those things that don't need it and where they aren't doing it today.

Mark

[Kevin]

It's really good to see these changes being made and implemented. It's actions like this that will bring back old faces and help members prosper in the longer term.

[abrandt]

FYI #2: Would appreciate a response to my post #92 made: Jan. 2, 2015.

Originally Posted by abrandt

Posted: 2nd Jan 2015, 05:48 PM

Howdy, Alaister & danieljb:

I have been a WF Member since 2003. I have issued few WSO returns in the last 10+ years.

However I purchased a WSO yesterday from a well known WSO author (who I trusted)... which has proven to be quite DECEPTIVE... (with more than enough evidence available posted by Member inquiries - RE: the subject matter of the WSO.) In fact, I did not even download the report after I clearly understood the WSO subject matter.

After clearly documenting my case directly to this WSO author... he did REFUND me this evening... however he has left such a bad taste due to his email comments... that I would like to pursue this issue with Warrior Forum... for the purpose of helping the NEW WSO RULES become meaningful for 2015 and forward.

HOW and WHERE would you ask WF Members file a well-documented complaint?

Thank you in advance for a prompt response.

~ Alan

[GlenH]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's really good to see these changes being made and implemented. It's actions like this that will bring back old faces and help members prosper in the longer term.

Exactly right Kevin.

Let's hope that happens

[Alaister]

Thank you for the ongoing discussion. It's great to hear your thoughts around the rules in order to help us refine and improve them. I think we're getting close to a solid set of rules that will help with improving the WSO section.

Originally Posted by Grazina Ajana Szewczyk

Warrior Forum is a very special place, there's nothing else like it. A few dishonest people won't change how I feel about being a Warrior. And I resent the fact that I'm not allowed to proudly call my new course or system a Warrior's something or other in case I was driven by some base, despicable motives when I all I want is to make profit and help other people

You could say, what the heck, just call it a ninja or pirate or musketeer or something. But that's not a point. What worries me is this part

Maybe we won't be allowed to call ourselves Warriors anymore. I'm a Warrior and I have no right to use this word, well that sucks.

Hi Grazina,

This rule is to prevent sellers from misrepresenting their product and trying to mislead people into thinking that their product is endorsed or in partnership with Warrior Forum. You are still a Warrior and nothing will change that.

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

I asked about this rule but perhaps it got missed?

Rule #18: Forced email opt ins

Sellers are not to force email opt ins from customers to gain access to their product. While you are allowed to request the customer to subscribe to your mailing list, this should not be the only way the customer may gain access to your product or service.

Some special offers are delivered via a membership site which requires buyers to register at the site to gain access to the materials.

Is this deemed a forced opt in, and if not can we amend that rule to clearly differentiate please?

Hi Russ,

Sorry we missed this. Mark summarized it well in the below reply. The point of this rule is to improve the overall buyer experience. There may be times when membership sites are necessary and registration in order to gain access after purchasing is required. The aim of this goal is to stop people from selling an eBook or another downloadable product and forcing people to enter their email in order to gain access.

As for membership sites, Warrior Payments does allow IPN notification which can be configured to provide buyers with their membership site access credentials after they have purchased. This provides an elegant purchase flow and experience for customers.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Yes it needs clearing up and yes there are situations where an email before the product is available must be entered.

However, I read somewhere where some were saying they would start putting everything behind a membership script in order to "force" the email capture and get around the new rules - even for those things that don't need it and where they aren't doing it today.

Mark

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Those who said they are putting everything behind a membership script in order to get around the rules are just ignorant.

It's quite EASY to automatically add paying customers to any auto responder list without the cusomter having to enter any data at all!

I believe sellers are entitled to their buyers emails at a minimum and I believe Paypal for example does as well, hence the option to pass the data on to the product delivery page.

That's exactly right. The point of this rule is not to prevent sellers from getting the details of their buyers, but rather to provide buyers with a great experience.

Originally Posted by abrandt

Howdy, Alaister & danieljb:

I have been a WF Member since 2003. I have issued few WSO returns in the last 10+ years.

However I purchased a WSO yesterday from a well known WSO author (who I trusted)... which has proven to be quite DECEPTIVE... (with more than enough evidence available posted by Member inquiries - RE: the subject matter of the WSO.) In fact, I did not even download the report after I clearly understood the WSO subject matter.

After clearly documenting my case directly to this WSO author... he did REFUND me this evening... however he has left such a bad taste due to his email comments... that I would like to pursue this issue with Warrior Forum... for the purpose of helping the NEW WSO RULES become meaningful for 2015 and forward.

HOW and WHERE would you ask WF Members file a well-documented complaint?

Thank you in advance for a prompt response.

~ Alan

Hi Alan,

The best way to file a report or complaint is to send a support ticket via our support desk. You can do that at the link below or send an email to support@warriorforum.com

https://support.freelancer.com/index...Tickets/Submit

Thank you

[Ewillis]

Hello,

I've just created this account but I'm a long-time lurker (at least 10 years). I don't like to ask questions without doing my own homework, but I'm having a hard time finding the data.

To create a WSO, do you need to upgrade to the "War Room" membership? And what are the payment methods? I typically avoid paypal. Can you pay by credit card, debit card, etc?

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by Ewillis

Hello,

I've just created this account but I'm a long-time lurker (at least 10 years). I don't like to ask questions without doing my own homework, but I'm having a hard time finding the data.

To create a WSO, do you need to upgrade to the "War Room" membership? And what are the payment methods? I typically avoid paypal. Can you pay by credit card, debit card, etc?

War Room membership is no longer required. You can use Warrior Payments or if you use this link http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17 you can use Warrior Plus or JV Zoo or whatever payment processor allows a buy button on Warrior Forum

[Ewillis]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

War Room membership is no longer required. You can use Warrior Payments or if you use this link http://www.warriorforum.com/newthrea...newthread&f=17 you can use Warrior Plus or JV Zoo or whatever payment processor allows a buy button on Warrior Forum

Thanks for the quick response. That link above for the new thread helps...because the other link https://payments.warriorforum.com/post-wso was confusing me a bit.


So it's just $20 to create a WSO now (no need for War Room membership) and then $20 every time you "bump" it?

[ForumGuru]

Originally Posted by Ewillis

So it's just $20 to create a WSO now (no need for War Room membership) and then $20 every time you "bump" it?

Correct... $20 to post and $19.95 to bump.

Cheers

-don

[Ewillis]

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Correct... $20 to post and $19.95 to bump.

Cheers

-don

Thanks again.

[luckyman2k]

Hello

Few Serious Issues.

1. To, Create a New Offer (WSO)

- We must have Paypal account. Correct?

- Any one from the above country can't open a WSO. Here are some lists of countries not supported by PayPal.
Juan de Nova Island, Paraguay, Zimbabwe, Belarus, Europa Island, Korea North, Puerto Rico, Bouvet Island, French Southern and Antarctic Lands, Lebanon, Serbia and Montenegro, Central African Republic, Glorioso Islands, Macedonia, Syria, Christmas Island, Guam, Federated States of Micronesia, Timor-Leste, Clipperton Island, Guernsey, Moldova, Tokelau, Haiti, Monaco, Tromelin Island, Akrotiri, Coral Sea Islands, Dhekelia, Jan Mayen, Pakistan, West Bank, Bangladesh, Egypt, Jersey, Paracel Islands, Western Sahara, British Indian Ocean Territory, Gaza Strip, Liberia, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, Burma, Afghanistan, Antarctica, Cuba, Isle of Man, Northern Mariana Islands, Wake Island, Ashmore and Cartier Islands, Georgia, Libya, Spratly Islands, Cameroon, Ghana, Macau, Sudan, Heard Island and McDonald Islands, Navassa Island, Uzbekistan, American Samoa, Cote d’Ivoire, Iran, Nigeria, Virgin Islands, Bassas da India, Equatorial Guinea.

- Paypal Can Close any account, without reason. I m sure, lot of members will Agree with me. Google it ... paypal warriorforum.com.

My point is. Don't make Paypal Account compulsory. Its not a good High End solution. Specially, for Asians.

2. Lastly. New Warrior Special Offer (WSO) Rules. Two Issues.

Rule #4: Service Offers

If you are offering a service, then this is to be posted in Warriors for Hire. This includes SEO, design, web development and writing services.

And

Rule #16: Buy Buttons Must Be Present

To sell a WSO in the WSO Section of the forum, your offer must have a Buy Button that takes the user to a checkout. This link cannot take the user to your website, an order form or an opt-in page.

This rule does not apply to other sections, such as Warriors for Hire or Classified Ads.

3. There are Lot of Service Offers Threads. My question is, Are U planning to close all of them? If yes, then it will be injustice to Service providers, who are doing there job since last few years.

4. Lastly. "Rule #16: Buy Buttons Must Be Present"
Its Not possible to use with, 2checkout, Blue Snap.
I check with them. There risk Department did not give Permission to use buy not button else where.

5. Lastly, Warrior Payments is a good option, but its Limited to Paypal only.
"warriorforum a freelancer Company" why, not apply every thing of freelancer, Including payment gateways?

Thanks In Advance. I m sure, WF will come solution for Services Providers and for Non paypal users

[Zoe_21]

Rule #3: Free Offers
If your offer is free, then this is to be posted in the Warrior Forum Classified Ads sub-forum.

Err...

Can someone show me the direct link for posting on the sub forum please?

Thank you

[Rus Sells]

Err...

Its right on the Warrior Forum home page as a menu link under WSO Special offers, click the appropriate sub forum and then in the top left corner click "New Thread"

Originally Posted by Zoe_21

Err...

Can someone show me the direct link for posting on the sub forum please?

Thank you

[ForumGuru]

Originally Posted by Zoe_21

Err...

Can someone show me the direct link for posting on the sub forum please?

Thank you

Rus Sells told it like it is but here is the link anyway:

Warrior Forum Classified Ads

Cheers

-don

[Zoe_21]

Thanks ForumGuru!

Thanks Rus Sells!

[pensfan6636]

I still can't understand this. You say that we cant have income claims unless it shows in warrior payments...

So if I create a product showing how I made $100 per day with affiliate marketing to my email list by promoting products from Jvzoo and W+, how is it fair that I can't use this income claim? If I have the paypal proof, and prrof from W+ and JVzoo, why can't I just use that? The only income claims that Warrior Payments can show is product sales. Am I just not understanding this correctly or what?

I see that you guys are just trying to keep everything in house, but honestly... saying only payments through warrior payments can be used for income claims?

Please explain if I am misunderstanding this... and if I am, all i can see is headaches trying to get a product in the WSO section now. These new changes hurts the people who actually used legit income claims.

[Paul Myers]

Please explain if I am misunderstanding this...

As I understand it, you're understanding it correctly.

The reason they're considering allowing WP stats is they can verify those. Whether you consider that to be fair or not is a personal judgement.

It strikes me that, until WP is widely used outside of the forum, the only thing you could use those stats for would be offers teaching "How I sold $X worth of products on the Warrior Forum."

As far as offers being harder to post... Nah. The extra effort comes in when you're writing the sales copy.


Paul

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by pensfan6636

So if I create a product showing how I made $100 per day with affiliate marketing to my email list by promoting products from Jvzoo and W+, how is it fair that I can't use this income claim? If I have the paypal proof, and proof from W+ and JVzoo, why can't I just use that?

Because you don't have Paypal proof to provide. All you will be providing is screenshots/copies and screenshots on the internet mean nada. They are faked every day. If the other payment processors/services would provide that info direct to warrior forum then you would have a point but none of them will because its illegal.

Theres nothing unfair about it. Its just a bare fact that the only income Warrior forum can verify was made is through an instrument they have direct access to and thats Warrior payments. All the conspiracy theories and claims by people of unfairness are just missing the simple fact that they have no direct access to any other payment system but their own.

[Mark Singletary]

Alaister,

A couple other ideas for you:

1. Limit false scarcity. There are old WSOs that claim they will end on a certain date but you can still go buy today. For example this one from November 2013 http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...s-minutes.html

2. Have sellers remove buy buttons but not sales copy when an offer closes. In case of a dispute, the buyer can point back to the sales copy but if it has been deleted they don't have this option.

3. Clarify how a WSO can be changed after approval by the mods.

4. Consider have the approving mod, take a screenshot or other similar record of the approved sales copy. With the right software, it would be almost instantaneous.

Mark

[Valdor Kiebach]

Theres this one with false scarcity too:
[OFFER ENDS TODAY] OwlHQ -9 Bad-ASS Tools That EVERY Website Owner Needs! ($549 Per Month value) <<

Its been 'ending today' since 23 November

[Anthony La Rocca]

Quick question for Alaister or Daniel

I just got an email from WarriorForum in regards to Rule #17

Rule 17 states that income claims and income guarantees are now prohibited from the WSO Marketplace. This means that any statements, questions, images or videos that claim to prove income must be removed from the WSO Marketplace.
Additionally, statements that promise or imply income results are not permitted in the WSO Marketplace.

Examples of statements that are not permitted:
- Make $100 per day in 7 minutes.
- I made $100 by selling eBooks.
- Earn $100 every time you press this button.
- I made $100 selling a domain.
- Make $100-$15000 per month by buying a website from me.
- Make $5+ in 30 days.
- Make ,XXX per month by clicking here.
- Make passive income with this offer.

Any statement that states or implies a member will earn income by purchasing your WSO is against the WSO Marketplace rules. Income claims will be policed heavily. If your offer uses income claims or guarantees, you are required to remove these by January 12, 2015.

Now as of now, Rule #17 states

Rule #17: Income Claims & Guarantees

Sellers are not to make claims around income that has been made unless this income can be verified through Warrior Payments. Sellers are not permitted to make claims about or imply that income will result from purchasing a WSO. This will be strictly enforced to protect the Warrior community.

This is applicable to the WSO Marketplace and all sub-forums.

If we have made income that is verified with WarriorPayments -- are we then allowed to claim that earning in our thread title, headline, or copy?

I felt that we would be able to do so based on how that rule is explained, but based on PM's from the mod's today..not so much and once again after several revisions and approvals, my thread was removed off the forum AGAIN.

So my question is...when one of us gets verified income from WarriorPayments and is then teaching others how to get that income in the form of a WSO -- what are the rules for that? I am just basically confused why it says we can claim income if its verified by WarriorPayments...and now being told can't put any income claims at all.

This will definitely help me for future WSO's being posted and would appreciate the insight

For example lets say I build 10 websites and flip them for $97 a pop and I setup a page for one to buy those websites off me using WarriorPayments. Can I not then bundle up a WSO teaching people how I made $XX flipping sites since the payments would then be verified?

[James Campbell]

Originally Posted by Anthony La Rocca

? I am just basically confused....

You're not the only one.

Here is the reason why:

They came up with almost all of these rules "on the fly", didn't think them out properly, did not make them very specific, did not think of the various implications, did not figure out how to properly implement + enforce the rules, clearly didn't get their legal team to look at some of the rules (now changed or removed) before posting them and also clearly didn't train their team properly on what the rules are and how to enforce them (probably because the rules aren't clear in the first place).

The implementation of this whole "new rules" thing has been a gong show from the moment it started.

Some of the rules make logical sense, others make no sense at all. It has become clear that the new owners have little to no idea what makes/made this community work so well for so many years and for so many thousands of people. Shoot first, figure it out later. That is their style of managing this forum, or at least it has been from almost day one.

So far they've depreciated the asset they've purchased instead of making it more profitable. The traffic stats, the ad availability, the fewer and fewer wso offers being put up/launched, etc... they all point to missteps in managing and changes being prematurely implemented on the forum.

Hopefully this trend changes, but it isn't looking pretty.

Sidenote: funny thing is, I'm not even a seller on this forum, but it has been hurting my soul watching this place be run into the ground by the new owners.

[David Mcalorum]

^^^ THIS. You know, for example, "Internet Marketing" is VERY closely intertwined with "Make Money Online" ... Look at that last one... The very root name of this niche is technically a "income claim" by the new rules. Like, isn't all of advertising promoting SOME KIND of result? Thats what advertising is! Either that result be, emotional, physical or as it relates to the "Make Money Online" or "Internet Marketing Niche" the desired result is a majority of the time, financial.

After some time, the sellers will lose incentive selling anything here, if we can't promise any financial results, because again, this niche by its very root definition is "Make Money Online" or "Internet Marketing" which are basically two interchangable terms. IM is the mechanics and processes of MMO.

The audience here, wants to LEARN how to make money online. So they want to believe that they
too can do it if you can. So, income claims in this niche are quite frankly necessary. Seriously, ask any copywriter and he will tell you so. And this means directly stated or implied, or via social proof. People are BUYING a experience, via a emotional reaction that if they follow through, will lead to a result.

What I am trying to say, is that people want to believe that they can make money too. So if they see no social proof, no outragious or even perfectly attainable claims, then what the hell are they here to learn.
It seems, unfortunately that the new owners don't yet understand their audience. Not the sellers, and not the buyers.

Maybe a simple solution to all of this is to jack up the price of WSO bumps to say $50 or $60, revert back to the old rules, and then see who sticks around. This will accomplish a number of things. It will:

1- Show you who can actually affort to bump things, i.e, sellers with legit courses that can afford to promote them instead of people who have fake claims and cant afford the new prices.

2- Remove most trolls as most sellers will most likely raise their prices to recover the bump money. Further resulting in...

3- A higher quality buyer, less moderation, and more profit for the forum,

I just hope they don't scare both buyer AND seller away, cause punishing one, will effect the
other, and vise versa. I guess the next few months will truly determine this forums fate, and
I personally don't want it to die, but as James said above (and I agree) its not looking good.

[XXXXXXXX]

So I just got an email from warrior and I read this.....I love the warrior forum so .. I hope my opinion doesn't get me banned... sorry to get on the soap box but its time for some tough love here..... so here we go...







New WSO Marketplace Rules


On December 30th, 2014 we introduced new WSO Marketplace rules. These rules affect ALL WSO sellers with threads in the WSO Marketplace. We require all sellers to update their existing offers to align with the new rules. This must be done by January 12, 2015. Sellers that do not update their offers to align with the new rules will find their offers are removed from sale.
Click here to view the new WSO Marketplace rules.
Click here to read the discussion about the new rules, including many questions from sellers seeking clarification.





Remove income claims from your WSO - Rule 17


Rule 17 states that income claims and income guarantees are now prohibited from the WSO Marketplace. This means that any statements, questions, images or videos that claim to prove income must be removed from the WSO Marketplace. Additionally, statements that promise or imply income results are not permitted in the WSO Marketplace.
Examples of statements that are not permitted:
- Make $100 per day in 7 minutes.
- I made $100 by selling eBooks.
- Earn $100 every time you press this button.
- I made $100 selling a domain.
- Make $100-$15000 per month by buying a website from me.
- Make $5+ in 30 days.
- Make $XX,XXX per month by clicking here.
- Make passive income with this offer.
Any statement that states or implies a member will earn income by purchasing your WSO is against the WSO Marketplace rules. Income claims will be policed heavily. If your offer uses income claims or guarantees, you are required to remove these by January 12, 2015.


So I am not a product creator or wso seller... but i have to say... ARE YOU GUYS CRAZY??

This looks to me like one of those things where I think that people got together .. .read some bad wso feedback.. and thought this would be a good way to help clean up some of the crap wso's that are produced but... as usual... this is probably not going to have the effect you think.

First of all... i have been buying wso's since i joined 4 years ago. I have bought hundreds....probably thousands at this point. In fact if it wasn't for warrior...i wouldn't be where i am today. (thanks warrior for that) From a buyers perspective... frankly... i WANT to know what they claim they make. I want to see the screen shots and I want to know what potential the method has to make for me. So what... I get to guess?? What is going to motive me to pull the trigger to purchase... if i don't see someone making some decent scratch....guess what ...i am going to be way less likely to buy that wso. So i guess thanks is in order here. Thanks warrior for saving me thousand and thousands of dollars buying wso's cause without any type of income claims... i will be much less motivated to purchase. Thanks warrior for keeping my money in my pocket where it belongs.


I mean really?? Its marketing...marketing is the heart of what people do here... and what you just rip the heart out?


What your doing here is like...for example... selling a weight loss product... and then saying ...oh buy they way.... you cant talk about weight loss anymore on your weight loss product sales page. Or better yet...take the photos of the hot skinny girls out of my garcinia cambogia sales pages and lets put fat ugly guys (like me) in there place. If you don't tell me i can loose weight.. and i want to buy a weight loss product ....why would i buy it if doesn't tell me how much weight i can loose?? If you don't show me photos of how good I could look after i eat your diet pill....why would I buy it?? People come here to buy wso's cause THEY WANT TO MAKE MONEY AT INTERNET MARKETING....now your saying product creators cant tell people how much they can make?? Are you guys nutz? Why don't you put a stop to all "call to action" statements while you are at it?? No more... "buy now" or "click here" or any other statements.


I can tell you that I have a ton of "alerts" through warrior plus.... In the last 4 years ...i have seen those alerts go way down. I also see way less wso's being offered on a daily basis. Now maybe i am wrong ...since i don't have any number to support it.. but i would say there are far less wso's being offered on warrior now as compared to several years ago...all i know is that i get fewer alerts ... and now you wont allow income claims? If i was a product creator ... i would run with heals burning away from Warrior. Does the warrior forum make money off of WSO's? If that is the case why would warrior do something that would cause product creators to leave and...on top of it... cause people interested in buying ...to buy less? Since warrior is now owned by freelancer...maybe profit is no longer a concern. I don't know.


Look at it another way... its like the other night.. i was in one of the large box stores late at night.....there were about 60 people waiting to check out... they had 2 cashiers working..and there were problems in both lines so neither were moving... people got tired of waiting in line...started putting down the stuff they wanted to buy and walk out... i told one of the managers they needed to get more cashiers... i was told they only have so much budget to work with so they are only allowed 2 cashiers that late at night... out of the 60 people waiting ... i would say 30 people left without buying cause they were sick of standing in line...moral of the story ... make it easy to pay!!! Warrior...make it easy for product creators to sell!! Make it easy for customers to WANT to buy!! Income shots and statements make buyers want to buy.


Frankly not allowing product creators to post income wording / photos or shots.. is not smart. I think you will see product creator going to other platforms.



How bout the affiliates? Traffic is so hard to get now compared to 4 years ago. You really think affiliates are going to promote warrior products if warrior takes income claims out of wso's? Its hard enough to get people to buy..now you are going to make it harder for people to want to buy?? You think an affiliate is going to want to promote warrior forum wso's? No!! Why not?? Because they will make less money.


Here is another way to look at it... one of the offers i have been promoting for a long time recently changed there pay out. They reduced the pay out by about 35%. So...I stopped promoting the product and went to other networks to find other products i could promote in that niche that paid me more...about 2 weeks went by and i get a call my affiliate manager. He wanted to know why i didn't have any sales for that product. I told him ..well because they reduced they pay out.. he said "but you have been promoting that for years and they didn't reduce it that much" "you can still make a lot of money with it" I told him they shouldn't have reduced it at all...and i found other products that converted just as well for a higher payout. Then i heard him... "i don't understand why everyone is dropping this offer? It converts really well." So I said.. so I am not the only one who has stopped promoting it. And he said "almost everybody has" its sales are down almost 80%. So i said.. well what does that tell you?


Traffic is at a premium right now. I have to work really really hard for the traffic I get. As a result ... I want to make as much money as possible because lets face making money in IM is a LOT harder that it use to be!! To be honest I have never promoted wso's..however.. If i was to promote a wso type of product I would certainly choose products that make people want to buy them. As an affiliate.. a wso with no income claims ...would be of no use to me and it would not be something I promote.


Ok so i hope you get the idea. I am not trying to bash anyone here..and i meant this as constructive criticism. I love the WF. I can understand all the reasons why ... as a business you guys may have decided to do this.

I just think its a mistake for warrior in general. Take care of your product creators and affiliates.. they are your bread and butter.


That's my 2 cents.


X

[atlanta2008]

Alaister,
I have VERY important question regarding new rules that are about to be implemented.
Everybody on WF knows how important traffic is.

Please advice how you are going to go about this part:
For free and service offers, we will move these offers to the appropriate subsections without any further action required by sellers.

Many sale threads offering services (free or paid ) are aged and their URL on Warrior Forum are not only indexed and RANKED TOP10 in all SE but also bookmarked, have citations from websites,social platforms,emails etc., and receiving steady organic traffic from potential buyers.
Are you going to 301 moved offers/URLs to help us preserve those leads?

Please note, that each visit to such offer is also benefiting WF with potential new members, who browse other members offers and WSO's and so it would be VERY wise to keep the old URLs redirecting properly to the new locations otherwise this Great Forum is going to loose lots of traffic and faith we, the hard working Members still have. Please do not ignore this.
We have worked too hard promoting WF to just have it wiped out overnight via URL change.
Thanks
Anyone else concerned at all about MoneyMaking Offers moved to a new URL location?

Sorry about the red , but since everybody seems to be mostly concerned about income statements, I think my point needs to addressed too.

[James Campbell]

Originally Posted by XXXXXXXX

How bout the affiliates? Traffic is so hard to get now compared to 4 years ago.

Want to know why me and many other affilates don't promote WSOs anymore AT ALL?

Try coming to any part of this forum without being signed in. You'll get a pop-up "encouraging" you to sign up or sign in.

This kills conversions on the offer and kills all decent mobile traffic to the offer. Just another genius move.

[AlexanderBeloev]

Here are my points against some of the rules and especially against rule #17:

-=> You cannot make a community better by making the life of "the blood of this forum - the sellers" harder! (and by saying harder, I mean harder for no logical reason!)

-=> This is a results driven business! People buy because they want results, we sell because we want results! We should be able to show them what we have achieved, so they can see what they can achieve! If someone can, others can too!

-=> Quick example showing you how illogical rule #17 is! Why it will be allowed to sell SEO services and providing ranking proof? Isn't it the same? Or the ranking proofs cannot be faked? Think of that!

-=> You can't just prohibit income proofs from other major payment systems, simply because you cannot handle a verification process. If you want to implement this rule, then write your homework first!!! Create a verification software with WarriorPlus and JVZoo. It's not hard to be implemented, it won't be expensive. And it can be permission based!

-=> And lastly I think that the whole point of rule #17 is to FORCE sellers to use Warrior Payments system instead of JVZoo or WarriorPlus.



IMPORTANT!!! - For future rule updates! Warrior Forum is so big because of the sellers here! Next time you update the rules, firstly discuss them with the top Warriors, those who sell for long time, those who sell the most! You should work for the community! Pay them the flight tickets to your office and discuss together! They know exactly what this community wants, because they have the experience!

AN IDEA!!! - Why not postponing the updates until you have a clear view of what actually these rules should look like? In the past few days I read them three times and every time they have been changed... Not really professional. I don't change my sales letters that often... (If you think that postponing the new rules is impossible go and talk with ThemeForest management. They have had the exact same problem, but have adjusted the rules to the needs of the sellers! So you can too!)

EDIT - WHY - You said you want to make the community better, why then you are allowing top ads with income promises? This rule seems to be like the Bulgarian law, it's for everyone except for mr. X, mr. Y and mr. Z.... Sad but true...

[Rus Sells]

Let me reiterate the obvious flaw in the income verification scenario that's been set up so far.

From my understanding if you've made money and done it via selling something through warrior payments then you can refer to those earnings as an income claim. Correct? I think that's how I understand it.

OK so if my understanding is correct lets look at a scenario.

Lets pretend for a moment that I figure out a new way to set up a sales funnel to get new local clients to pay me to $X for a type of service, and the funnel converts like crazy, new clients are paying me hand over fist!

I decide that I want to share my new sales funnel as a WSO but according to the current guidelines for making income claims I would have had to set up my "original" sales funnel and payment processing through warrior payments for my new local clients just so the income claims can be verified.

Well quite frankly this is total FAIL!

So what this requirement has really done, as I've pointed out COUNTLESS times before and it's been totally IGNORED is that...

THE ONLY PRODUCT YOU CAN CREATE AND SELL THAT WOULD HAVE A VALID/VERIFIABLE INCOME CLAIM ( ACCORDING TO THE NEW RULES) IS A PRODUCT ON HOW TO DO A WSO using WP as the processing platform!

Excuse the caps but I think it's warranted. lol

I don't understand for the life of me why this isn't clearly obvious and the only reason I can think of why no one from the WF staff will own up to is is because they want to create a situation where it FORCES sellers to use the WP system.

Additionally I'm 1000% against any WSO about how to do a WSO, I think allowing offers like these insult those who've paid their dues as established and credible sellers and it just creates more wasted space in the listings. It's even a FURTHER insult to buyers on the forum as well.

If I have to explain why it's wrong and an insult that I'd probably get banned.

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

THE ONLY PRODUCT YOU CAN CREATE AND SELL THAT WOULD HAVE A VALID/VERIFIABLE INCOME CLAIM ( ACCORDING TO THE NEW RULES) IS A PRODUCT ON HOW TO DO A WSO using WP as the processing platform!

Excuse the caps but I think it's warranted. lol

I don't understand for the life of me why this isn't clearly obvious and the only reason I can think of why no one from the WF staff will own up to is is because they want to create a situation where it FORCES sellers to use the WP system.

Additionally I'm 1000% against any WSO about how to do a WSO, I think allowing offers like these insult those who've paid their dues as established and credible sellers and it just creates more wasted space in the listings. It's even a FURTHER insult to buyers on the forum as well.

If I have to explain why it's wrong and an insult that I'd probably get banned.

Many of the changes thus far, rather than being for the overall health and intelligent growth of the Warrior Forum has been to advance the false hope that the big players in the IM scene are going to come here with their million dollar product launches, using War Pay of course. Ain't going to happen, but the forum is suffering/failing as a result of this and in a big way.

Personally, I don't like income claims, particularly if the only proof is an easy to fake screenshot, but I knew how unpopular with both sellers and buyers this rule would be. Sellers are responding to a very active market demand. The buyers want income claims. They flock to it like a crack addict does to a crack pipe. Never mind that they most likely won't make even a fraction of what is being claimed. They go on to the next one and the next one and the next one. One thing you have to give them credit for ... they don't lose hope easily. lol. I think they may actually run out of money before they run out of hope.

The verified income thing via War Pay is completely flawed for very obvious reasons. The majority of these income claim offers are "method" offers ... not running a WSO offers, so the proof, if it is real, would be available through other venues. Example: site flipping course could be provable through Flippa. CPA course could be provable via a CPA Network. Affiliate marketing course via affiliate stats, whether those are Warrior Plus, JVZoo, Clickbank, WarPay, etc. You get the picture. There is a very limited opportunity to use WarPay as an income claim for the methods that are taught.

Which makes all of this look like just coercion to use WarPay and little else. Like holding a carrot out .... you can use income claims if you use WarPay. Gotcha. Right.

[MikeFriedman]

I think the Warrior Forum needs to make a decision to either allow income claims or not allow them, and have no middle ground.

If you are going to allow income claims, there should be no verification through WP. That means you can only claim income based on the sales of a WSO, which is just plain dumb. No verification period. Obviously, faked screenshots and that sort of thing should not be allowed. Other than that though, no restrictions.

If you are going to put restrictions on them (which I am in favor of), just completely disallow them. If they are all disallowed, it is an even playing field for all of the sellers. Sellers might have to actually come up with offers that teach marketers something worthwhile, which would be a welcome change.

One little caveat to that, if a buyer wants to mention something about how much they made using the information in the offer, that should be allowed.

[Tonester]

Sorry if this has been posted here before, but I haven't had time right now to read the entire thread and I wanted to chime is as well.

Here's my issue about income claims.
First, I think it's a good thing to clean up the WF and the rule has good intentions. However, implementation will be extremely difficult without restricting people so much that the WSO section becomes a ghost town.

Specifically, this statement: "Sellers are not permitted to make claims about or imply that income will result from purchasing a WSO" bothers me.

I understand about specific income claims, 10K in 2 weeks for instance, but the wording: "imply that income will result from purchasing a WSO"means that in a make money forum, you can't even IMPLY that you can make money at all."

This goes against any and all common sense. That's the purpose of every single WSO - to make money! Really! Is this for real? Possibly the wording needs to be changed if I'm reading this right..

Plus,as an advertiser, I'm now questioning the value of posting here.

I've read and heard that the WSO section is not what it used to be. It used to be posting a WSO would mean a lot of sales just from WF traffic alone. Now, that's not the case. Most sales come from other sources such as affiliates.

So, the bumping rules, meaning an extra $20.00 fee to get back on the first page. If you're off page 1 in 1-2 days, this means $20.00 ever 1-2 days. How many sales can be made in 1-2 days on page 1? I don't know. But as an advertiser, this is not a good value and discourages me from using the WF for posting my offers at all. I'm not saying I won't, but I am thinking more about it and my return will be looked at closely. Right now I have my doubts.

Yes, $20.00 for an ad seems cheap, but it's not really $20.00 if you want good exposure. It'll end up being much more if you pay for bumps. How many people look at page 2 or further down? I don't know.

So, these are my takes on the whole thing.

Believe me, I'm all for cleaning up internet marketing offers, but it's a difficult thing to implement. I personally, have common sense when buying WSO's but I guess most people have to be protected from themselves.

[hustlinsmoke]

I knew this place would change and not for the better, and don't delete my comment just because you don't agree with it, or is freedom of speech still not allowed here.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

If you are going to allow income claims, there should be no verification through WP. That means you can only claim income based on the sales of a WSO, which is just plain dumb.

Theres nothing dumb about it. Just because an exclusion does not apply to many people or situations doesn't make it dumb. The idea that many people have that they are some geniuses and FL are a bunch of dolts is false (at times almost comical). Of course they know it doesn't apply to many situations . Like I have said before and some people just won't get (some because it feeds into the evil dumb corporation took over WF narrative)

It IS the only income that they CAN verify.

SImple as that...Not OMG they are trying to push Warrior Payments (again doesn't apply to many sellers) Or OMG they are so dumb and we are so smart.

They CAN verify income claims where Warrior Payments were used. they can't the rest. SO hey since they can verify that small segment (and there are people who have been offering WSOs along those lines - how to do WSOs) then thats the one small exclusion.

People need to think and/or look up the word "dumb".

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

I don't understand for the life of me why this isn't clearly obvious and the only reason I can think of why no one from the WF staff will own up to is is because they want to create a situation where it FORCES sellers to use the WP system.

Rus can you explain it to me. I can't for the life of me figure out why people cannot get that Warrior payments which they own and run is the only payment processor they CAN verify. its so incredibly simple. and please tell me how anyone selling a pdf is going to FORCED into using WP.

THEY STILL CAN'T because the PDF method is not whats verified only the running of a WSO. LOl you really think this is their gambit to force people to use WP?? when in fact most still can't?? so um they only want WSOs on how to do a WSO?

Additionally I'm 1000% against any WSO about how to do a WSO, I think allowing offers like these insult those who've paid their dues as established and credible sellers and it just creates more wasted space in the listings. It's even a FURTHER insult to buyers on the forum as well.

Meh too many of them are a waste but it really doesn't make any sense to claim that you can't do a WSO on how to use an advertising system. Are you insulted when product creation training tells you how to launch your products on other systems?

Respect you bro but seriously (not rhetoric) not understanding the logic. to me it looks like sour grapes

A) that income claims are bye bye and we relied on them
B) That WF is owned by the alleged evil money grubbing corporate overlords.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Alaister

Hi everyone,

We have decided to completely rewrite the rules for our Warrior Special Offer marketplace. We are focusing on building a high quality marketplace with special deals for our community that can not be found elsewhere.

Please make sure you read all of the new rules before posting your WSO. All new offers will be moderated based on these new rules.

New Warrior Special Offer (WSO) Rules

Some notable changes include:

Rule #23: Warrior Forum trademark

Sellers are not to use the Warrior Forum logo, branding or name in their sales copy. The name of your product should not imply that the product is affiliated with the Warrior Forum in any way.

Examples include using the Warrior Forum logo in sales copy or including the word "Warrior" in the product title.

Yikes, am I violating the rule?

Almost all of my products and services are based on my domain name WarriorHelp.com and I have a current WSO, since August 2014, selling my WordPress theme: WarriorTheme.com.

Never have I implied that the product is affiliated with the Warrior Forum in any way. In years past when I was a beta tester for Allen's EA I never implied that my services for EA were affiliated with the WF, except to point WF members to specific threads that answered questions about EA, but never an affirmation that I was affiliated with WF.

Jeffery 100% :-)

[Rus Sells]

Mike,

If the PDF I'm offering is about my super duper new local sales funnel that I used to get new paying clients and boosted my income by 10K per month, the only way I can make that income claim is to have SOLD those new clients through the Warrior Payments platform!

Because as it stands now the forum wants to verify income claims through their processing of payment through WP, which in this case would only be the actual sales of my PDF not the sales I made thought the actual method the PDF teaches about.

Do you think I'm going to get local clients to pay me for anything for a product I've set up on here? LOL Not a chance in HELL!

The rules currently state:

Rule #17: Income Claims & Guarantees

Sellers are not to make claims around income that has been made unless this income can be verified through Warrior Payments. Sellers are not permitted to make claims about or imply that income will result from purchasing a WSO.

So yeah how can I prove my income claim any other way then having sold my new local clients my service by having it as a product that processed via warrior payments. See? Now, unless my reading comprehension is totally off base, I read the above as income made through the processing of sales through WP's. No?

P.S. No sour grapes bro.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Rus can you explain it to me. I can't for the life of me figure out why people cannot get that Warrior payments which they own and run is the only payment processor they CAN verify. its so incredibly simple. and please tell me how anyone selling a pdf is going to FORCED into using WP.

THEY STILL CAN'T because the PDF method is not whats verified only the running of a WSO. LOl you really think this is their gambit to force people to use WP?? when in fact most still can't?? so um they only want WSOs on how to do a WSO?



Meh too many of them are a waste but it really doesn't make any sense to claim that you can't do a WSO on how to use an advertising system. Are you insulted when product creation training tells you how to launch your products on other systems?

Respect you bro but seriously (not rhetoric) not understanding the logic.

[kindsvater]

Any statement that ... implies a member will earn income by purchasing your WSO is against the WSO Marketplace rules.

Holy cow, just shut down the WSO section and forum.

(Although I have never seen a WSO make a promise that money is made by purchasing a product. Rather, the pitch is if you follow the methods in the WSO then money can be made.)

I can understand a policy against making income claim promises. Example: that you will make $343.98 tomorrow using the strategies in a product.

Those claims have always been a problem.

But have there been many WSOs that did not imply money would be made? I don't care if the WSO is about traffic, conversions, copywriting, Kindle, video, etc., the goal is to make more money.

The Warrior Forum, as stated on the home page, has always been about making money.

Where the Warriors talk about making money on the Internet.

Why do you buy a WSO to improve your copywriting skills? To make more money. Why do you buy a WSO to get more traffic? To make more money.

Making money is implied in the WSO marketplace.

When Dan Kennedy writes a book about the Ultimate Marketing Plan, or Brand Building, or Direct Response, you know what he is more than implying: buy my book and you will make more money.


You can make income claims if the income is from Warrior Payments.

The only exception to this rule is if the income you are claiming to have made can be verified through Warrior Forum's payment platform, Warrior Payments.

WTF? Folks. Put your thinking caps on.

Is the problem with income claims the fact no one actually makes that money and deception is being addressed, or because the Warrior Forum was not making a buck off the product?

With Warrior Payments if a WSO sells 100 copies at $10 each the forum has its own verified proof the WSO made $1000.


Thus, you can sell a WSO with an income claim that your product made $1000.

Hello pyramid scheme.

You can say: I made $1000 selling this and you can too.

It is the only way the income claim makes sense.

What other legitimate claim can you make by referring to the $1000? You can't sell a "method" for promoting a WSO that will make $1000 because every product is different. You can't sell a copywriting course on how to make $1000 because every product is different. That would be false advertising. But I guess that's fine under the new policy because the forum made money off the sales.

It only makes sense if you sell resell rights, saying I sold this product and made $1000 and you can too. And that is what the buyer then sells to others. The forum allows that.

Is anyone thinking these things through?

Maybe I had better go eat some breakfast and then revisit these issues, as I'm a bit grumpy. What is Allen doing these days?

.

[Kay King]

THE ONLY PRODUCT YOU CAN CREATE AND SELL THAT WOULD HAVE A VALID/VERIFIABLE INCOME CLAIM ( ACCORDING TO THE NEW RULES) IS A PRODUCT ON HOW TO DO A WSO using WP as the processing platform!

I think I mentioned this a couple pages ago. It will help promote the new Warrior Payment system but does seem a bit "weighted". It's a fairly new system.

If it were the ONLY payment system allowed and after several months this policy was implemented - it might make more sense.

To me this is similar to the "WSO of the day" - a payment system choosing only from their pool of sellers. It was deceptive and repeatedly it was clear members believed the "Of the day" designation was a stamp of approval from the Warrior Forum itself.

Will you allow "verification" that occurred prior to the new rule? Will there be a disclaimer that "only sites using WarriorPay may use income claims"?

Just how much "verification" will be done? Could a seller run a $5 WSO through Warriorpay - buy 100 copies himself or through a friend....and then run an updated, higher priced WSO with a $500/day income claim? Trust me - someone will try it!

I think some sellers weren't too concerned until they realized those long running WSOs are also expected to conform to the new rules. If WSOs were time limited as they used to be - the transition to new rules would be easier. Now they run for years so have to be retrofitted to fit the new rules.

What sellers have to realize is if they take their products and go elsewhere, it's likely no one will notice due to the volume of offers in the WSO section. Honestly, it's been a bit of a free for all for some time now and changing it has to start somewhere.

kay

[Rus Sells]

This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say! I don't get it why others aren't seeing it either!

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Holy cow, just shut down the WSO section and forum.

(Although I have never seen a WSO make a promise that money is made by purchasing a product. Rather, the pitch is if you follow the methods in the WSO then money can be made.)

I can understand a policy against making income claim promises. Example: that you will make $343.98 tomorrow using the strategies in a product.

Those claims have always been a problem.

But have there been many WSOs that did not imply money would be made? I don't care if the WSO is about traffic, conversions, copywriting, Kindle, video, etc., the goal is to make more money.

The Warrior Forum, as stated on the home page, has always been about making money.

Why do you buy a WSO to improve your copywriting skills? To make more money. Why do you buy a WSO to get more traffic? To make more money.

Making money is implied in the WSO marketplace.

When Dan Kennedy writes a book about the Ultimate Marketing Plan, or Brand Building, or Direct Response, you know what he is more than implying: buy my book and you will make more money.


You can make income claims if the income is from Warrior Payments.

WTF? Folks. Put your thinking caps on.

Is the problem with income claims the fact no one actually makes that money and deception is being addressed, or because the Warrior Forum was not making a buck off the product?

With Warrior Payments if a WSO sells 100 copies at $10 each the forum has its own verified proof the WSO made $1000.


Thus, you can sell a WSO with an income claim that your product made $1000.

Hello pyramid scheme.

You can say: I made $1000 selling this and you can too.

It is the only way the income claim makes sense.

What other legitimate claim can you make by referring to the $1000? You can't sell a "method" for promoting a WSO that will make $1000 because every product is different. You can't sell a copywriting course on how to make $1000 because every product is different. That would be false advertising. But I guess that's fine under the new policy because the forum made money off the sales.

It only makes sense if you sell resell rights, saying I sold this product and made $1000 and you can too. And that is what the buyer then sells to others. The forum allows that.

Is anyone thinking these things through?

Maybe I had better go eat some breakfast and then revisit these issues, as I'm a bit grumpy. What is Allen doing these days?

.

[Valdor Kiebach]

Originally Posted by AlexanderBeloev

IMPORTANT!!! - For future rule updates! Warrior Forum is so big because of the sellers here! Next time you update the rules, firstly discuss them with the top Warriors, those who sell for long time, those who sell the most! You should work for the community! Pay them the flight tickets to your office and discuss together! They know exactly what this community wants, because they have the experience!

What data do you have to show that this forum is so big because of the sellers?

What criteria denotes a 'top warrior' is it amount of cash made selling on the forum or is it the amount of posts they have made to contribute to threads?

This is a forum with many sections, WSO is just 1 section, it is not the be all and end all of the forum, it is not the main section of the forum, it may be the main reason some members use the forum but they are just here to make money not to contribute to the community, they may be 'top warriors' to you but to me they are just milking the 'WSO cash cow'.

I find the war room far more beneficial to me than WSO's.

I hope never again to see things in WSO sales copy along the lines of:
'now just imagine if you could sell 20 of these a day at $47 thats $940 a day so you will be making $6580 per week !'

or

'You will have people phoning you up at midnight begging you to take their money !'

Now if only they would ban WSO's on how to make a WSO.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Mike,

Because as it stands now the forum wants to verify income claims through their processing of payment through WP, which in this case would only be the actual sales of my PDF not the sales I made thought the actual method the PDF teaches about.

Rus You are telling yourself the bolded word. the actual wording is HAS NO OTHER MEANS....But through their processing of payments

Do you think I'm going to get local clients to pay me for anything for a product I've set up on here? LOL Not a chance in HELL!

So?? How does what you can or cannot do/sell affect WF's inability to verify anything but their own payment system?? Its an AMAZINGLY simple question

So yeah how can I prove my income claim any other way then having sold my new local clients my service by having it as a product that processed via warrior payments. See?

I could see all along...whose insulting intelligence now?? So can just about everyone at FL because they are not dolts like you are implying we both are...its Captain obvious... you can't prove it. Your assumption is that its supposed to be designed so that you can but again they cannot verify income outside of a system that they have access to.

I still have zero explanation how a few of you cannot see that - which was the question. Instead its focusing on wants or the implication that they are attempting to FORCE when they are only making available what they can make available.

[Rus Sells]

I think I'm completely confused now so I'm going to finish up some other work now. lol

[kindsvater]

Now that me and the dog have had some breakfast, tell me, what do you think about these income and result claims?






I just checked Warrior Payments and do you know how many offers have made at least $63,000?

Zero.

Nothing is remotely close.

Am I wrong that this?

- Does not comply with the forum's own rules?
- Is a fraudulent screen shot with fabricated income and fabricated product results?
- Even if made up for illustration (which is not disclosed), misrepresents typical results?

What about the forum's use of this testimonial referring to money being made?



.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

WTF? Folks. Put your thinking caps on.

Is the problem with income claims the fact no one actually makes that money and deception is being addressed, or because the Warrior Forum was not making a buck off the product?

With Warrior Payments if a WSO sells 100 copies at $10 each the forum has its own verified proof the WSO made $1000.......

Hello pyramid scheme.

ROFL

Like new management invented the WSO about WSOs. Please Kindvater. that "hello" happened long ago. The whole conspiracy theory the same group is slowly trying to claim (after initially stating that removing income claims was a good move) is terribly weak

Who really believes that FL wants to have a bunch of WSO about WSOs filling the WSO section? As a group you have collectively gone from good move FL to conspiracy theories about why they have finally done what old management wouldn't.

Apparently because they think they will make ton loads of cash off of the whole forum going to WSOs about WSOs.

You are reading in your own hangups about New management into your reasonings. its not difficult at all, nothing nefarious, no conspiracy - that thinking cap is broken. WP came up because its the only system they have access to actually verify.

Of course they should have known given the narrative since they took over that any mention of their own system would be met with emotional reasoning rather than logic but people!!

its just basic common sense...they can only verify income through their own system

so they said hey this is the one scenario (no matter how limited) where we can do it.

Now as to the wording of 17 and implying an income?? With you on that. I took issue with it about a week ago in this thread. too general. Alaister gave us an example and based on the examples they are thinking specific income claims but then that should be then how the rule is worded.

[kindsvater]

Mike, I was not focusing on WSOs to make WSOs. Apparently my post went over your head, or I did not articulate it well enough.

There is nothing of value verified via Warrior Payments except the gross revenue a product sold. And the value of that is next to nothing, unless you get into pyramid issues with resell rights.

The reason for not allowing income claims, which I have suggested for years, has less to do with whether the seller made that income or not, and more with buyers being unrealistically made to believe that is how much money they will make.

By disallowing income claims, unless the income is generated via Warrior Payments, is thus not a rule designed to protect buyers, reduce fraud, and have better products. It is a rule designed to entice more products to be sold via Warrior Payments instead of JVZoo and W+.

That's the rub. You can make an income claim related to a product so long as the Warrior Forum made money from your sales. Otherwise no.

Which means issues I and others like Paul Myers have discussed for years, and FTC compliance concerns, go out the window, only because the forum made money from each transaction.

What you did not address, and I attempted, is what is the value of having a "verified" gross revenue number from a product sale?

Example: Dan Kennedy sells a marketing plan and it grosses $1 million.

Can DK then advertise because he made $1m that you will make $1m by using his marketing plan? I say no. The forum, though, would allow that income claim because that is a number connected with Warrior Payments. It does not make sense.

Arguably, the fraud concern about income claims is exacerbated by new new rule, and sellers can point to "verified" and approved income numbers to tout their products.

Undoubtedly, a number of sellers will be buying their own products in record amounts to boost a useless and now fake "verified" income number they can use to sell more products.

My suggestion is if income claims are disallowed then disallow all income claims. The exception for Warrior Payments is a red herring used to increase forum revenue, not protect buyers. There should not be an exception.

.

[pensfan6636]

I am very very happy to finally see people speak out about all the nonsense this rule has caused. I agree with everything above for the most part, except a couple people. There is no need to repeat what has already been said for the most part. One of my favorite things so far is the fact that we can no longer show proof how much money we (or our buyers) have made from a making money strategy in the make money online niche (LMFAO). Also, for the people saying that the only income claim that we can really show through WP is sales of products, so in turn can really only make a product about how I made product sales (using WP)... I completely agree with this and have been arguing that point as well. Lastly, I agree this will kill the forum, at least the WSO section, which only hurts FL. Now they finally get to see how much they are ticking off the engine of their revenue... the sellers... and I am happy to see that even buyers are upset as well... because I myself like to see income proof before I buy a product. I wouldnt say its a deal breaker in all situations, depending on the product, but if I see the vender making $X amount of their buyers making $X amount, that helps my overall decision. But now, thats gone and there goes a TON of sales that would have been made on the WF. I can only see things going down hill from here if this sticks around.

[Daniel Evans]

I'm in hope that FL will recognize the recent mentioned points and bring their own claims in line with the integrity of the newly imposed rules which will, in turn eliminate the seeming impression of a bias.

In addition to that, with accurate figures in mind and in the interest of paying advertisers, it would be good to see viewing stats on the index page brought into real time (or close to) so that buyers of ads can judge exposure more accurately.

I hope when all is said and done and the knots are untangled, it proves to be a change for the better.



Daniel

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Now that me and the dog have had some breakfast, tell me, what do you think about these income and result claims?






I just checked Warrior Payments and do you know how many offers have made at least $63,000?

Zero.

Nothing is remotely close.

Am I wrong that this?

- Does not comply with the forum's own rules?
- Is a fraudulent screen shot with fabricated income and fabricated product results?
- Even if made up for illustration (which is not disclosed), misrepresents typical results?

What about the forum's use of this testimonial referring to money being made?



.

Tried to look at the graphics and it says forbidden

[XXXXXXXX]

This debate reminds me of back in the late 70's early 80's when Porsche decided they wanted a "new direction" for the company. They decided they would stop advertising the 911 as a "fast car" but as a "status or prestige or luxury car" with "superior engineering". So they re-marketed there advertising to "show" the porches interior / features / long push-pull shots, quality construction etc etc... but nothing showing the Porschegoing fast, no speedo or tach shots, or it handling on some curvy road in Germany. They stopped all that.

Some people said it was obviously stupid...but Porsche said.. the car is more than just about going fast. They said there is more to a Porsche than that. And that they didnt want the Porsche to been known "only" as a performance vehicle.

Many people in the company agreed that it was time for a new direction and for Porsche to expand its customer base beyond the performance market.

So what happened?? Sales tanked. Sales were so bad that they almost couldn't get new advertising written fast enough to keep the company from going bankrupt.

What happened at Porsche was a basic fundamental mistake by management. They forgot what product they were trying to sell.....and......who there customers were.




Sometimes things in life baffle me. This is one of them. As people...we way over complicate things.

People come here to learn how to make money.

People create wso's to fulfill that need.

Take away the ability to make income claims.... sales will tank. Either sellers will leave or buyers wont buy.

Its simple.

X

[kindsvater]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Tried to look at the graphics and it says forbidden

It is the home page of Warrior Payments:

https://payments.warriorforum.com/

It's ironic. The forum enticing sellers to create WSOs by making what appears to be a fabricated income claim based on a fabricated results claim for a list building product - all in the context of an overstated claim of forum reach and with a testimonial implying 7 figures have been made.

It starts at the top. If the forum does not want sellers making certain claims then perhaps it should not be promoting those same types of claims.

Otherwise, sellers are just following the example of what the forum is showing them to do so that they can also make $63,000 by selling a WSO.

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