[James Campbell]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Jezaloo we disagreed before but when you have a point you have a point. Its another one of the reasons I have not run a WSO in along long time. I don't know how sellers put up with some of the junk I see.

However there are somethings being suggested like only buyers can leave reviews and if a refund policy doesn't exist refunds shouldn't be expected that should help in some areas.

What i would ask is - doesn't some kind of offers bait the hook for PRECISELY those kind of customers??? I mean the normal mature person with money to spend that I know does not expect to make a few thousand dollars with no hard work and in a short period of time. They generally have to work for what they already have . Doesn't some income claims act like sugar to flies and lead directly to those headaches???? In my own line outside of WSOs the brokest and cheapest customers always expect the most and want refunds far faster and make far more complaints.

Honestly??? a high percentage of them were from WF. So wouldn't it be a good thing for sellers to cut that mentality down a bit?

Unfortunately any sort of income claim, promise to make money, proof of income made, alluding to the idea that you could benefit monetarily in any way does lure some of the jackasses I outlined above. Fortunately, out of 1000 sales, you get maybe 10 jackasses. So, clearly it also lures decent customers who respect you as a vendor and respect the work you've created and provided to them at a relative bargain price.

You're right about the pricepoint of sub-$10/cheap attracts more problem customers than say when you're selling at $500+, at least within the IM/MMO/BizOpp niche and when looking at it from % of customers angle. Which is why you are seeing more and more "premium" pricing from vendors who used to sell at traditionally lower prices (say $27 to $97).

Now the mentality of showing results and/or imlying positive monetary gains from following the instructions within a product isn't really a "mentality" at all. It is a demonstration of proof of concept/action in some cases and an authority tool in other cases and then in the rare case it is solely a way to entice the reader to become a buyer. The third case is where it should be toned down, at least in my opinion. Unfortunately, the rules as they are currently set-out don't allow for "toning down" of any sort. It is only, "none whatsoever" (unless of course you use our system that we can log into, then it is cool...for now...until we change our minds...until a different mod looks at it...until...who knows because we make it up on the fly), which I think is absurd and is a good example of the old saying of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[David Mcalorum]

Originally Posted by James Campbell

Unfortunately any sort of income claim, promise to make money, proof of income made, alluding to the idea that you could benefit monetarily in any way does lure some of the jackasses I outlined above. Fortunately, out of 1000 sales, you get maybe 10 jackasses. So, clearly it also lures decent customers who respect you as a vendor and respect the work you've created and provided to them at a relative bargain price.

You're right about the pricepoint of sub-$10/cheap attracts more problem customers than say when you're selling at $500+, at least within the IM/MMO/BizOpp niche and when looking at it from % of customers angle. Which is why you are seeing more and more "premium" pricing from vendors who used to sell at traditionally lower prices (say $27 to $97).

Now the mentality of showing results and/or imlying positive monetary gains from following the instructions within a product isn't really a "mentality" at all. It is a demonstration of proof of concept/action in some cases and an authority tool in other cases and then in the rare case it is solely a way to entice the reader to become a buyer. The third case is where it should be toned down, at least in my opinion. Unfortunately, the rules as they are currently set-out don't allow for "toning down" of any sort. It is only, "none whatsoever" (unless of course you use our system that we can log into, then it is cool...for now...until we change our minds...until a different mod looks at it...until...who knows because we make it up on the fly), which I think is absurd and is a good example of the old saying of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I can totally attest to this as well. I have a high end coaching program that I sell for
$997 - $2000. When I first started I sold it at $397. And I even let a few people in at $100.
Well, I'm sure you can guess what happened. Those $100 people turned out being the biggest pain in the ass customers ever, and AFTER me providing them MULTIPLE one hour phone calls they went to paypal and requested refunds. ... The nerve!

Now, even the $397 were almost no better. Had quite a few dip out and ask for refunds as well AFTER multiple one hour calls were made. Again, the nerve! Not the type of customer I would wish on anyone.

With all that being said, I haven't had ONE SINGLE problem with any of my $997-$2000 clients. It might be something in the water that repels those jerk customers... But I think its simply the price lol.

In any case, with all that being said (as its a little off topic) I am still anxious for the owners stance on if they are going to change anything moving forward. As I am sure a lot of us are.

[Paleochora]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Any new model will have to clean out the claims and promises that, honest or not, look suspicious to the kinds of sellers that would be required to make it work in anything but the very short term.
Paul

Then they should have started with the seemingly fake screenshots and "7 figure income" testimonials they use to "encourage" people to buy a $20 WSO listing.

If they want to be seen as a professional outfit, they need to start acting professionally.

[Paleochora]

Originally Posted by David Mcalorum

Personally, I have no idea why they moved free offers to the classified section.
In my book, the buyers are unaware that that move is being made, (and as a classified
seller I can tell you that section has less traction than the main WSO section)
So, free offers in that section will get less leads (IMO) than if they were in the main
WSO section.

I tend to think that a good proportion of organic browsers of the WSO forum in the last couple of years (not sent by platform or affiliate emails) were there in the first place looking for free WSOs .

Whether I am correct about that or not, those people will now start to browse the classified for those free offers. We will see.

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

A few thoughts...

A lot of noise is being made about whether FL intends to force things to the WP system. Much of the commentary leads one to think the people saying this believe there's something wrong with that idea.

Freelancer owns the place. If they want to move to WP-only, there is nothing illegal or unethical or unfair about it. And, depending on their vision for the marketplace parts of the forum, that may be exactly the right way to go

Paul

The thing about that Paul, is that WarPay is lacking quite a few features that other platforms have and has been very slow in catching up. In addition, every time that I look at the Marketplace of WarPay, the sales numbers, with the exception of the Of The Day products is very dismal.

I feel that if they force WarPay as the only payment solution, you won't be seeing an influx of the "big players," as much as a retreat of any that are left and only the new people, who haven't really used the other platforms much will post.

If you take away people's choice to launch their products the way they want to launch them, you may just force them to make a choice that doesn't benefit the forum at all.

[Paul Myers]

Suzanne,

You're right - if they want to keep the sellers they have now. The scenario I posited assumes they don't.

They almost certainly want to keep as many of them as can fit the new rules for at least the short term. Whether they want to keep them for the long term is another question, and I have no idea if that's a yes or no. It's possible they're not clear on that yet themselves.

Mike,

i think it highly implausible warrior forums would ever be the first choice of established businesses

In its current incarnation, I agree. It's been through at least 4 major iterations in the past, with different market appeal each time, so I have no trouble believing it could become that in the future.

Barry,

Then they should have started with the seemingly fake screenshots and "7 figure income" testimonials they use to "encourage" people to buy a $20 WSO listing.

If they can't back them up, I agree that would be a very good idea. I haven't really looked at that part of the thread, so I couldn't say. Depends on how it was phrased.


Paul

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Mike,In its current incarnation, I agree. It's been through at least 4 major iterations in the past, with different market appeal each time, so I have no trouble believing it could become that in the future.

The name sucks for main line business . It always has. It would need a rebranding and redirect to another domain name for business in addition to jettisoning its present base. So what would they have paid for? its not sensible

I am responding because I really don't see any constructive part for this kind of speculation at this point when sellers are upset to suggest that possibly they have no place for you and don't want you. It doesn't alleviate anything would only tend to make people feel angrier and isn't constructive toward any goal they have actually stated . If they said so then fine that would be reality but speculation like that is just going to make people angrier if it does anything at all in the present climate.

[Valdor Kiebach]

The forum and sellers / buyers will evolve over time, I am sure FL bought this forum with a long term goal in mind. 'Power sellers' will move on because they cant use income claims. New sellers will eventually take over who have the copy skills to sell without needing to use income claims and use WarPay so will know how it works.

How many 'make x in y days' WSO's are nothing more than 'build a list by offering a free WSO then send some WSO affiliate links to your list and make bank'? And now you are crying because the cash cow has died and you need to learn how to make money online yourself without the use of WSO's.

Moving free offers to classifieds, people will eventually know this is the place for free offers so will look there.

People fear change but the best thing is to adapt to it.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I feel that if they force WarPay as the only payment solution, you won't be seeing an influx of the "big players," as much as a retreat of any that are left and only the new people, who haven't really used the other platforms much will post.

[kindsvater]

I have criticized income claims but was self-reflecting this morning about when I was first looking online for assistance in marketing on the Internet.

After much research and evaluation, I bought a handbook by Rosalind Gardner who was advertising she made $400,000 a year as something called an affiliate without having to sell a product. She backed up her income with an audit report from a CPA firm. In all the years since I have not seen anyone else provide an audit report and contact information for a CPA to verify an income claim.

The handbook was not a $7 report and was well worth it.


I got my hands on a report from SiteSell. Again, very valuable information. I settled on the report after being able to find many websites that appeared to be successful and said they were using the SiteSell techniques. Again, not cheap but well worth it.


I read an actionable report by some guy pitching how he was making a lot of money online. His way of writing in the sales letter "spoke to me". It was good stuff. Eventually, I ditched the forum where I was getting my web tips and paid to join his Warrior Forum. Do you think I found value in that decision!


Years later, the "Rich Jerk" used a video showing check after check after check he was receiving for marketing online. I paid more than $2000 and my return on the investment was one of my best decisions ever.


In each case there were income or result claims. I made the effort to do some research to confirm these were reputable and in fact successful marketers. My goal was to learn from the best and those with something to teach me.

At the same time, there have been umpteen zillion income and result claims I have skipped as being obvious scams. They deserve to the criticized.

Perhaps it isn't the income claim per se, but I'd rather pay and learn from a proven and confirmed success like Rosalind, Allen, Kelly, etc., than some nobody. I'll have to admit income claims are part of the decision making. I flew to Los Angeles to meet Corey Rudl at his wedding party. Would I have done so if I didn't know he was perhaps the #1 Internet marketer at the time? Probably not.

There are plenty of big names in marketing: Kennedy, Abraham, Sugarman .. pick your favorite. Would you have paid attention to any of them if they were not responsible for generating millions in sales?

Would Freelancer have selected certain persons for WAMA if not for results and success, including money made? Of course not. You select those who are succeeding and making money, not those who have not succeeded and not made a dime.

.

[Tom E]

Originally Posted by Alaister

Sellers are not to use the Warrior Forum logo, branding or name in their sales copy. The name of your product should not imply that the product is affiliated with the Warrior Forum in any way.

Examples include using the Warrior Forum logo in sales copy or including the word "Warrior" in the product title.

What about when it involves WarriorPlus (WSO Pro)? My product became WarriorPlus' product of the year in 2014, and thus far, I have used that in the title. It seems unfair if I was forced to remove that, as the title was earned, based on performance, the quality of my product, product reviews and my customer service.

[Valdor Kiebach]

Originally Posted by Tom E

What about when it involves WarriorPlus (WSO Pro)? My product became WarriorPlus' product of the year in 2014, ..., as the title was earned, based on the quality of my product, product reviews and my customer service.

Are you sure it wasnt because it made the most money for WSOPro from affiliate sales?

[Tom E]

Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach

Are you sure it wasnt because it made the most money for WSOPro from affiliate sales?

I had a question for Alaister, this was not an invite to an argument about my product, so I'm not going to dignify your comment with a reply. This thread is for discussion/clarification of the new WF rules, not anything else.

[Valdor Kiebach]

Originally Posted by Tom E

I had a question for Alaister, this was not an invite to an argument about my product, so I'm not going to dignify your comment with a reply. This thread is for discussion/clarification of the new WF rules, not anything else.

Maybe you should have sent him a PM then if you dont want your questions to be discussed in a forum.

This post might help:
http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post9776021

[Tom E]

Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach

Maybe you should have sent him a PM then if you dont want your questions to be discussed in a forum.

This post might help:
http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post9776021

Thanks Valdor, that was actually really helpful, including that link. Didn't want to PM him because I figure he gets a million PM's a day, and the fact that the Moderator who is working with my thread hasn't replied to me in 3 days. Thanks again, will PM Alaister.

[ForumGuru]

Originally Posted by Tom E

What about when it involves WarriorPlus (WSO Pro)? My product became WarriorPlus' product of the year in 2014, and thus far, I have used that in the title. It seems unfair if I was forced to remove that, as the title was earned, based on performance, the quality of my product, product reviews and my customer service.

WarriorPlus is not Warrior Forum so according to Daniel, a forum admin that sits next to Alaister, that title can not be used going forward.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Does this mean no more "WSO of the Day", "WSO of the week/month/quarter", "named best WSO" ...etc? That has been deceptive for members here for quite some time.

Some really positive changes in the new rules. It's obvious FL put a lot of thought into the new requirements and I think they'll help resurrect the WSO section.

kay

Originally Posted by danieljb

Exactly right. The only time such "WSO of the {Day|Week|Month|Year|Decade}" can be used is when it has been awarded by the Warrior Forum. External parties are not authorised and have no place implying that we endorse a WSO that we have no affiliation with.

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post9777563

Cheers

-don

[Coach Comeback]

Regarding the above...

It can be seen both ways. Sure, one could say they are deliberately trying claim affiliation... even though they say it all over the warriorplus website that they are not affiliated with warriorforum.

The way I see it, it started like this: (Made up scenario for illustration purposes)

I am an amazon affiliate.

I have a book review site.

Each day I post my "Amazon Best book of the day" which I then promote as an affiliate.

I am not trying to say I am endorsed by Amazon. I am just giving my opinion of the best book for that day.

So, as a seller, couldn't we simply just change the name? Instead of using the ever so confusing language of the trademarked word "warrior" or "WSO".... say instead... "Mike Lantz's Product of the day"?

If the problem is just the word you guys are fighting for, then we would just say that and be well within the new guidelines correct?

[Tom E]

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

WarriorPlus is not Warrior Forum so according to Daniel, a forum admin that sits next to Alaister, that title can not be used going forward.
-don

Originally Posted by danieljb
The only time such "WSO of the {Day|Week|Month|Year|Decade}" can be used is when it has been awarded by the Warrior Forum. External parties are not authorised and have no place implying that we endorse a WSO that we have no affiliation with

.

Forumguru, my question was not in regards to using "WSO Of the year", but the title Product Of The Year, which has no implied connection to the WF. My product is the only product which has ever received that title from WSO Pro, so how would putting Product Of The Year in the title go against the new TOS? If I keep the "WarriorPlus" part out of it, of course.

Basically what CoachComeback just said. Unless WF is trying to completely squeeze other vendors such as JVZoo and WarriorPlus out of the game, I don't see why it should not be allowed.

[kindsvater]

I've used "WSO" to refer to Website Special Offer. If you think it means something else that is just your interpretation. I do not believe the letters have been used by the Warrior Forum until recently. It's not a forum trademark. At this point, it's probably not enforceable as a trademark even if registered.

More irony: if anyone has a trademark on WSO of the Day it is Mike Lantz. I'm not sure what that new moderator was doing claiming no one but the WF can use that term. If anything, the WF cannot use that term because it creates confusion with the award given out by Lantz.

.

[Coach Comeback]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

I've used "WSO" to refer to Website Special Offer. If you think it means something else that is just your interpretation. I do not believe the letters have been used by the Warrior Forum until recently. It's not a forum trademark. At this point, it's probably not enforceable as a trademark even if registered.

More irony: if anyone has a trademark on WSO of the Day it is Mike Lantz. I'm not sure what that new moderator was doing claiming no one but the WF can use that term. If anything, the WF cannot use that term because it creates confusion with the award given out by Lantz.

.

Yet another damn good point by Kindsvater likely to be ignored lol!

[Kay King]

I'm not sure what that new moderator was doing claiming no one but the WF can use that term.

My understanding of what was said was "you can't use it HERE on this forum". Maybe that was only my interpretation - but I did ask the question and I thought answer was clear.

Sellers have left one reason or another since the WSO section was begun. Nothing new there. Sometimes they don't like a new rule or policy - often their sales begin to decline after time. Most often - they use the rep building and money from WSOs to move their business ahead a notch or two.

A changeover in sellers is also reflective of changes in the average new member and the knowledge/expectation levels of the members currently joining.

In the past couple of years it seems there are quite a few marketers who are doing business mainly (or only) through WSOs on the Warrior Forum. It may be quite lucrative - but it's risky as things can and do change.

[ForumGuru]

Originally Posted by Tom E

.

Forumguru, my question was not in regards to using "WSO Of the year", but the title Product Of The Year, which has no implied connection to the WF. My product is the only product which has ever received that title from WSO Pro, so how would putting Product Of The Year in the title go against the new TOS? If I keep the "WarriorPlus" part out of it, of course.

Got it.

It's not an income claim, so it's probably allowed...unless they are going to clamp down on all sorts of other claims.

Originally Posted by Kay King

My understanding of what was said was "you can't use it HERE on this forum".

Exactly.

Originally Posted by kindsvater

I've used "WSO" to refer to Website Special Offer. If you think it means something else that is just your interpretation. I do not believe the letters have been used by the Warrior Forum until recently. It's not a forum trademark. At this point, it's probably not enforceable as a trademark even if registered.

More irony: if anyone has a trademark on WSO of the Day it is Mike Lantz. I'm not sure what that new moderator was doing claiming no one but the WF can use that term. If anything, the WF cannot use that term because it creates confusion with the award given out by Lantz.

Regarding the WSO acronym, you have made some decent points, but when push comes to shove I think we all know what WSO was derived from with regards to the Lantz platform. Speaking to the new rules, if Freelancer wants to enforce a rule saying we can't use the words "WSO of the XXX", I believe they have the right to do so irregardless of a trademark (or lack thereof).

Is it a smart decision? Possibly not, but maybe so --> IMO some of those awards are given because of potential conversion rates and potential earnings, and not because of the quality and/or value realized by the end user. Can some buyers be confused by this? Sure. When we start talking about some of the podunk sites giving daily pitches and/or weekly, monthly, and yearly "WSO" awards, some of those ain't worth the pixels it takes to display them.

That said, I own several domains with the words Warrior and WSO in them so you probably have a good idea of where I stand on the use of both of those terms.

With regards to PictureWarrior --> I was in the military, I have built many military image galleries, and I have been taking pictures professionally for over a decade so it fits. Of course it also fits really well with "marketing" pictures when used in conjunction with this forum, as hundreds of thousands of so-called marketing "warriors" are members here.

WSO, as you mentioned, could mean many things including website special offer, website super offer etc.

Anyway, just for grins, I did a quick USTESS and an ATMOSS on WSO and this is what turned up:



TESS -- Error



ATMOSS - Australian Trade Mark Online Search System

I checked through the marks rather quickly and did not find anything connected with Warrior Forum, Freelancer, or Mike Lantz. And yeah, I have a product called the Warrior Ultimate Picture Pack - Marketer's Edition which is more of a play on the old school wrestler --> The Ultimate Warrior <-- than it is on Warrrior Forum.

FWIW, I believe Daniel is a bit more than just a regular mod here, he appears to be almost a right hand man to Alaister. He seems to know a good bit about the direction the forum is trying to take, and the rules they are trying to implement.

Cheers

-don

[kindsvater]

Regarding use of the letters "WSO" - it isn't even mentioned in new rule #23.

Trolling err scrolling through the other rules as I have nothing better to do while mourning the Broncos loss:

#3 - no free offers. IMHO since Warrior Payments only works with paid offers I see this as a means of removing more W+ and other platform offers out of the special offers forum.

No reason a special offer cannot be free. IMHO it makes more sense for a freebie to be in the special offers section than the classified ads.

The other week I checked out a free offer only because it was free. I had never heard of the seller. It was really good. I ended up getting one of his paid WSOs and that in turn led me to promote it to my list. I'm now richer as a result and the seller is going to promote one of my products to his list.

Isn't that the way free offers are supposed to work?


#5 - no mass automation tools of any kind. Not just email scrapers. Tools can be used legally. They can be used for bad purposes. A lot depends on the tool and who is using it.

Example: I have a script that autogenerates web pages based on a keyword. Not allowed even though it saves me a ton of time creating web pages for my sites.

I wonder - could I use Freelancer.com to have someone code me an automation tool?

I use a number of products which auto post to directories, article sites, press releases, etc.


# 10 - no paid or incentivized testimonials - The weird thing is there is another part of the Warrior Forum with a purpose of handing out review copies so you can have testimonials when it comes time to the release your product. Check out the rules here and specific reference to getting testimonials to use with a WSO.


#11 - no bonus for a review - This is really the same as #10. Interesting ... if are a War Room member and read Allen's Private Posts, on pages 17-18 he tells you to do this - and how to use the Warrior Forum and special offers section to do this. Maybe his guide was removed with the change of ownership? I haven't checked. I bought rights to sell Allen's ebook because it's jam packed with money making ideas. Does anyone from Freelancer have a book about marketing or making money online? If so, send me a PM so I can check it out.


#16 - buy buttons must be present on the WSO thread. Again, IMHO this is because it is how Warrior Payments works. I once ran a WSO where for payment I wanted foreign currency via the mail so I could build up my world money collection from exotic places. It worked great. I guess cash deals and checks from major corporations are now out. I'm not sure why the forum should care how I get paid or if I offer an mail-in order form for the periodic buyer who cannot use PayPal or does not trust it.


#17 - income claims - already plenty of posts about this.


#18 - no forced email optins - We won't see Marlon Sanders around here anymore offering subscriptions to his newsletter. Seems to only apply to pdf reports, since other products are often delivered behind a membership signup anyway.


#22 - only 3 offers on the first page. When the Beatles had all of the top 5 songs on the Billboard Hot 100 did Billboard say, sorry, only the top 3 get listed? I Want to Hold Your Hand - sorry, that song cannot be promoted at this time. OK, not the same, but it made me think of it anyway. Maybe this is more directed to the Warriors for Hire section where a number of sellers may be running the same service using different threads.


#23 - no reference to Warrior Forum name in sales copy. Sooo, I can't actually state this is a special offer only available on the Warrior Forum to try and get people to buy here instead of elsewhere? I can't say product delivery of a pdf file is handled by the Warrior Forum, when in fact it is handled by the Warrior Forum and that is what I am paying for? Or direct buyers with access problems to the Warrior help desk. But, instead of using the word "Warrior Forum" we can use "Warrior Payments" because the order buttons all boldly state "Powered by Warrior Payments" - although warriorpayments.com redirects to warriorforum.com.


Related: Since Warrior Payments buttons can be used off the forum, do any of the "WSO" rules apply to those offers?



Anyway, just a few thoughts about language and situations I currently see in the rules that could be tightened up to address various scenarios.

Don't get me wrong. The overall concept - improving the section and forum I am all for. I'm not sure any of these rules address major issues for buyers and sellers which have a huge impact on the WSO section.

Example: For sellers: trolls and bad buyers who make selling on a forum a bad experience versus selling without a thread and being able to handle questions and complaints privately. For buyers: garbage products sold because someone was told to rewrite another product or some info they found online and then sell it as a WSO to make a few bucks and to build a pitch list.

My suggestion: pay Paul Myers to be a consultant

.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

My suggestion: pay Paul Myers to be a consultant

.

Yep...Like I said before that narrative of old management against new was always in there hiding under the surface though a number of you denied it. Thank you for making it even more obvious. Tell Mark S who knew? Mike A can read minds after all ....lol.

Look in order to work something out its time to stop whining and trying to put up as many objections as you can to see what sticks. Sellers can work things out right now I believe if they would come up with a sensible way to verify income claims not if they continue insinuating that the only people that can run a forum are old ownership and admins. Besides being baloney (and some would argue they couldn't either). It doesn't win friends and influence people.

A number of you are forgetting and not reading the first pages of this thread. . READ THEM . They were set to verify income but WE TOLD THEM IT WOULDN'T WORK.

The change of the income rule wording is a legit one but I can tell from several posts that unless it goes back to no clean up whatsoever some sellers will not be happy and will continue sniping. . A lot of some posts (like Kindsvater's) is just getting desperate to pick at everything. Real marketers are adapting and will adapt. The ones whose time has come and gone will continue to long for old management that never did anything substantive to clean up the cesspool the WSO section is known all over the internet for

My suggestion to management is listen but put your own vision and stamp on the the place. A lot of the voices when they finally come down to it just want the days that have passed to return complete with their old admin and mod friends. Evolve and grow I say. Nostalgia aint for running an ever changing internet based business.

sellers - particularly new ones in this thread -Work with those willing to work with you not those who are constantly throwing old admins and ownership in the face of management. Again for those upset about income claims go read the first two pages and you'll see management was not adverse to working something out on income claims. they were going to verify ones even without Warpay. Work together with them don't work with those polarizing the issue by talking about who ran the place before. Its not productive.

Your WF business and income rests on solutions that only the present owners and admins can supply - not politics. Politics won't solve issues for your bottom line.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Coach Comeback

Yet another damn good point by Kindsvater likely to be ignored lol!

By who though and a point against what? Daniel (who it is my uderstanding is an admin not a mod) is being taken out of context there. Rule 23 is pretty clear as to intent. It involves actual trademarks. Which would be Warrior forum and whatever derivatives they had trademarked. So when asked about WSOs it s likely he meant Warrior Special Offers. I don't see anywhere within the rules where they are claimng the letters WSO are their trademark.

Neither at all is the intent of #23 that you can't mention WF in any context at all as kindvaters is implying but the wording itself indicates its not to be in a way thats construes endorsement.

that rule for example does NOT mean that you cannot say. "Leave your reviews on Warrior forum" or we are using Warrior pay as a payment processor" because none of those are claiming any kind of endorsemnt or connection the product or seller.

Its just being taken completely out of context

[ForumGuru]

Just a few thoughts...

Originally Posted by kindsvater

#3 - no free offers. IMHO since Warrior Payments only works with paid offers I see this as a means of removing more W+ and other platform offers out of the special offers forum.

No reason a special offer cannot be free. IMHO it makes more sense for a freebie to be in the special offers section than the classified ads.

I have followed (and participated) in the discussion on this for months, and I think it has more to do with too many "almost worthless" free offers that were nothing more than optins to get on someone's list being posted to the section. These offers are/were cluttering the forum so badly it was becoming difficult to pick through all of the garbage to find a few gems.

From the seller's viewpoint, some great offers were getting lost in a sea of garbage with regards to garnering organic traffic. Of course not all is garbage, but with the lack of a War Room requirement to list, and the lowering of the cost to $20 to list, the section was becoming flooded with a bunch of lower value and/or almost worthless junk.

Their was also was some discussion on where those free offers should be moved to. The WSO section was/is the "crown jewel" of the selling sections, and IMO it's great they are being moved out of there because of the quality dilution.

The other week I checked out a free offer only because it was free. I had never heard of the seller. It was really good. I ended up getting one of his paid WSOs and that in turn led me to promote it to my list. I'm now richer as a result and the seller is going to promote one of my products to his list.

You hit a good one when you rolled the dice. They are all a dice roll, but the odds have been getting longer for the consumer after the dropping of the War Room requirement to list, and the lowering of the listing fees.

Isn't that the way free offers are supposed to work?

Yeah, unfortunately too many of the offers are nothing more than almost worthless, or completely worthless junk to get you on a list

#5 - no mass automation tools of any kind. Not just email scrapers. Tools can be used legally. They can be used for bad purposes. A lot depends on the tool and who is using it.

Example: I have a script that autogenerates web pages based on a keyword. Not allowed even though it saves me a ton of time creating web pages for my sites.

I have feeling a tool like that may be allowed as long it is not blatantly "stealing" content and re-posting it. I could be wrong though...

I use a number of products which auto post to directories, article sites, press releases, etc.

I suspect some of these may be allowed on a case-by-case basis as long as they are not too spammy. If they decide to not allow tools that break other website's ToS then some tools will be harder to get in here within the rules. If the tools auto create mass user accounts I doubt they will be allowed as obviously they could be used to mass spam sites.

# 10 - no paid or incentivized testimonials - The weird thing is there is another part of the Warrior Forum with a purpose of handing out review copies so you can have testimonials when it comes time to the release your product.

I think not allowing paid incentives going beyond giving the product itself away for review is the way to go. Products are given away to be reviewed all over the world in many, many markets.

#16 - buy buttons must be present on the WSO thread. Again, IMHO this is because it is how Warrior Payments works.

This has been discussed on a few threads in the past as well, and I think this has all to do with a great number or Warrior "Special Offers" not being special. If you cruised through the section frequently in the past few months you could find lots of offers that were not "special" at all. They were nothing more than a a link to the vendor's website where the exact same product was offered at the exact same price. Those are not special offers, and those offers should be placed in the classifieds section. Those types of offers were not allowed in the section in the past and they shouldn't be allowed in the future. The WSO section is not an ad directory as it was once put, it's a special offer section. The buy button requirement eliminates those types of ads. Can someone still try to scam a not so special offer in...sure they can, but it makes it not quite as easy to do so.

I once ran a WSO where for payment I wanted foreign currency via the mail so I could build up my world money collection from exotic places. It worked great. I guess cash deals and checks from major corporations are now out. I'm not sure why the forum should care how I get paid or if I offer an mail-in order form for the periodic buyer who cannot use PayPal or does not trust it.

They are not out at all. Put a button on the thread and also list the other forums of payment you accept and how you accept them.

#23 - no reference to Warrior Forum name in sales copy. Sooo, I can't actually state this is a special offer only available on the Warrior Forum to try and get people to buy here instead of elsewhere? I can't say product delivery of a pdf file is handled by the Warrior Forum, when in fact it is handled by the Warrior Forum and that is what I am paying for? Or direct buyers with access problems to the Warrior help desk. But, instead of using the word "Warrior Forum" we can use "Warrior Payments" because the order buttons all boldly state "Powered by Warrior Payments" - although warriorpayments.com redirects to warriorforum.com.

Yeah, this one should be rewritten.

My suggestion: pay Paul Myers to be a consultant

Yes, several of us have suggested similar, but I believe Paul has stated he does not want the job if offered.

Cheers

-don

[XXXXXXXX]

I don't understand why a free wso would be in a "classified ad" section. That will be too confusing. Wso's in 2 places?? Just keep them with the wso's.

I like the idea of sellers having to be a war room member and someone also suggested to bump the pricing for wso sellers. I think that will help weed out a lot of the scammers.

Again as a buyer, like many or most, I want to see income claims and screen shots before I buy. You cant police everything and everyone so don't try.

If a wso seller is a scammer... ban them.

Don't make the lives of all the other sellers and buyers more difficult by pulling income claims.

Admins please re-read my post #199 and #253 for examples of why I say the above.

Thanks X

[XXXXXXXX]

Ok so here is another example why I have an issue with this whole no-income claims.

A few days ago i got an alert from warrior about a new wso... here is what was in the email.


Free Money App


Posted by: jasonthewebmaster
Get Paid To Give Away This Free Money-Making App!



The a few minutes ago I get this e-mail below......

Free Traffic App

Posted by: jasonthewebmaster
Get Paid To Give Away This Free Money-Making App!


Now first I want to make clear i have not purchased either of these to see what's in them. I think they are probably the same offer... but i could be wrong. I am "assuming" that this is the same offer updated as a result of the new rules. (again I could be wrong) However even if these are 2 totally different offers or if it is an updated one... it really doesn't matter... i will explain.

See if you click the warrior links.... the sales page talks about making money... the other talked about getting traffic.

The make money I would buy... the traffic I would not. Its that simple.

The point i am making is these are probably the same wso. I am sure someone here will say... well if they had good marketing skills they would have found a way to make the 2nd traffic sales page more enticing for me to buy.

NO!!

See I (like most) am here to learn new ways of making money.

I have all the traffic I need. I love to learn new things or methods or even if they are not new... i like to see what other people are doing to generate income ...even if i don't want to do there method. Again its doesn't matter if this or is not an updated wso.

Bottom line is... I am here to be exposed to ways of making money. 1st wso I would purchase. 2nd wso I would not.


And that is the problem with the new... no income... wso guidelines.


X

Like Mike said above. "Look in order to work something out its time to stop whining and trying to put up as many objections as you can to see what sticks."

The above is another one of my objections.....I think we should ALL take his advice... quit reading and post these types of examples for the admin staff... I do this because for some strange reason..i care about this place and would like them for find a way to keep the income claims as they change and re-vamp this forum.

[XXXXXXXX]

Was there a problem with the links in my comment above? In order to make my point people need to see the salespages.

Were the links removed? Or do they not show here? I thought they did when I posted my comment above.

Please let me know.

Thanks X

[XXXXXXXX]

Follow up...I tried it again and I was able to post the link...but I took it out since someone removed it. I really think in order for people to understand and see my point above the difference between the 2 sales pages need to be seen. The difference is huge.

Admin's / mods please let me know.

Thanks X

[Grazina Ajana Szewczyk]

Apart from the
The Chat Room and
Warrior Events

all other parts of Warrior Forum look like this:

Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum(1359 Viewing)
Where the Warriors talk about making money on the Internet.
The War Room(33 Viewing)
The Internet's #1 private forum for elite marketers & entrepreneurs.
Freemarket.com Discussion(9 Viewing)
We help entrepreneurs buy and sell websites, with the lowest commission and secure handover. Get started today!
Warrior Ask Me Anything (WAMA)(5 Viewing)
The world's best Internet marketers and entrepreneurs conduct live streaming sessions here where they reveal their secrets to Warriors for making millions
Copywriting(54 Viewing)
Arm yourself with the power to move people with words and you'll need little else to make money any time and anywhere you choose.
Mind Warriors(143 Viewing)
All topics related to self-improvement. Power, energy and creativity translates into being able to make more money.
(emphasis added).

Cost per click, cost per lead, building distribution lists, maximizing open & click through rates, converting traffic into customers, selling physical products - as you can see, even Mind Warriors/self improvement “translates into being able to make more money”.

I can’s see even one section that would teach you how to speak Lithuanian, bend bamboo, fix smelly armpits, or have better sex.

IT’S ALL ABOUT THE HOLY DOLLAR.

And yet, we get into trouble for creating products about making money.

Am I missing something here?

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by XXXXXXXX

Bottom line is... I am here to be exposed to ways of making money. 1st wso I would purchase. 2nd wso I would not.


And that is the problem with the new... no income... wso guidelines.

Hey X . I might be wrong but heres a possible ray of sunshine if we start talking with management rather than at them.

everything i have read by way of explanation indicates to me that BOTH title examples do not violate the intent of the rule. Again I was one of the first if not the first to take issue with the wording but when Daniel answered with examples every single one was a specific income claim. Its things like these I think are in focus

"How to Make $3500 in 3 days"

"Make Money Online" and they certainly can correct me if I am wrong (and I very well could be but thats the beauty of real dialogue - only way to find out) isn't an income claim as they are using it.

"The Life you deserve and the potential to never worry about Money again"

Yep does imply income (and why I wanted the wording changed ) BUT it very well too may not be violating the rules. If they come back and say no you cannot make any hint anywhere of anyone being able to make money even if you do not make an income claim well...I already stated earlier in a conversation with Rus - that would be crazy but right now i think theres a good chance we might be arguing over words not realities

Now will some sellers be still upset at the specific income claims? Sure but heres one reason why it HAS to be changed . Lets look through it logically without the emotion

The more integrated with offers WF is the weaker the argument goes that they are just bystanders. When they pick a WSO of the day, when they send out the best offers, when they integrate their payment system and recruit and payout your affiliates it weakens their argument to the FTC that they are just advertisers (I'm not saying the argument cannot still be made ). In my mind its just good business for them to at least address income claims and sorry its not some guys sitting down under that have problems with income claims. Governing bodies like the FTC have huge issue so they almost have to address this. Sellers bare minimum have to accept there are issues with the FTC and other government bodies. We can't just bury our heads in the sand.

the key is a little give by sellers and a dialogue in the best interest of the future of the forum not looking to the past. Specifically fo rthose who want income claims at least a viable suggestion on how they can be verified. Screenshots don't do it nor anything that can easily be digitally created. Only direct access could and based on former posts they were open to suggestions but they have to be ones that can work.

[diffie11]

James Campbell, I agree with what you are saying and it is a shame this forum is no longer what it used to be. Sadly, I may have to move on.

[Rus Sells]

In regards to rule number 23.

I'm assuming it's OK for a WSO to be using the trademark logo and name in the WSO if it's being promoted by the forum itself?

I got an email this morning from the forum and followed it through to the offer and it has the forums trademark plastered all over it. Also the mail does not disclose any material relationship between the seller and advertiser (the forum) if any. Is there?

So for those who do not get emails from the forum the appearance is that it's a clear violation of the current rules!

Additionally on the WSO itself is gives a regular price for a supposed lifetime price which can't be readily found on the sellers web site at all. So on the surface this claim looks deceptive to me a would be buyer.

I mean come on guys it looks like your doing the very thing your trying to clean up and if that's the case how can any one take the changes seriously!

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

[Mike Anthony]

Hey Rus,

I don't think its too surprising an offer would have the trademark if it were sent out by the forum given this

Originally Posted by danieljb

Exactly right. The only time such "WSO of the {Day|Week|Month|Year|Decade}" can be used is when it has been awarded by the Warrior Forum. External parties are not authorised and have no place implying that we endorse a WSO that we have no affiliation with.

.

[Rus Sells]

Right I totally get that! Does it state that somewhere in the existing rules that I missed somewhere?

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Hey Rus,

I don't think its too surprising an offer would have the trademark if it were sent out by the forum given this

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Right I totally get that! Does it state that somewhere in the existing rules that I missed somewhere?

I guess they could clarify that further but I think rationally you would not think that a prohibition to use their trademark would apply to them so its pretty much implied.

Still even so how do you get to we can't take your changes serious because of that or because a regular price can't be found on a web sites page. I can't find that email but I can't think thats really good grounds to say changes can't be taken seriously.

Now the screenshot thing noted earlier ...that sure has to be changed and its the 12th So I sure hope its gone in a few hours. If it isn't and they get more grief about it then its well earned.

[Rus Sells]

Well when you look at it from a buyers perspective it does to me if you don't see that's OK.

The email and the offer clearly states $X,XXX.XX life time value for the PRO version offer but on the sellers actual website the pro version is a monthly subscription at 8 bucks a month! So are they implying that people are subscribed for 10 years at 8 bucks a month to derive this value?

The issue I see is that offer is a Chrome extension and Chrome isn't 10 years old by a long shot.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I guess they could clarify that further but I think rationally you would not think that a prohibition to use their trademark would apply to them so its pretty much implied.

Still even so how do you get to we can't take your changes serious because of that or because a regular price can't be found on a web sites page. I can't find that email but I can't think thats really good grounds to say changes can't be taken seriously.

Now the screenshot thing noted earlier ...that sure has to be changed and its the 12th

[Valdor Kiebach]

Originally Posted by Coach Comeback

So, as a seller, couldn't we simply just change the name? Instead of using the ever so confusing language of the trademarked word "warrior" or "WSO".... say instead... "Mike Lantz's Product of the day"?

The problem is who is Mike Lantz to go around bestowing awards and titles on products sold in this forum?

Just because a seller may use his payment system doesnt give him any sway with this forum, sure he can promote offers on his platform as offer of the day but does that entitle the seller to use that title in this forum?

Now could anybody award a product a title? Can I trawl through the WSO offers then PM a few sellers and say 'I award you the title of VK's product of the week'

What if paypal decided to give out titles to WSO sellers would you allow 'Dan Schulman's product of the day'

If you have a product for sale in the 'WSO' section then one would assume that the letters WSO in your product refer to Warrior Special Offer just as if you used the word 'Apple' when talking about tablets people would assume you are talking about the tech company and not fruit.

These are rhetorical questions b.t.w.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Well when you look at it from a buyers perspective it does to me if you don't see that's OK.

I can't speak for all buyers and neither can you but I would think that if a buyer got an email from WF they would not be surprised to see it endorsed by WF and that most non sellers would not even know there was any presumed conflict so the most they would think is that its endorsed compared to the other offers -- which it would be so whats the point??/

The email and the offer clearly states ,XXX.XX life time value for the PRO version offer but on the sellers actual website the pro version is a monthly subscription at 8 bucks a month! So are they implying that people are subscribed for 10 years at 8 bucks a month to derive this value?

Whatever are you talking about???

10 years is the lifetime expectancy of a canine Rus not a human being so where is the foul?

I think I have found the offer. Its a sticky at the moment and the numbers you are using line up . I might be wrong but if I am not this is a pretty good example of what I was talking about earlier. Nit picking. its $8 a month on their site and $49 one time in the WSO...so it clearly meets the qualification for a WSO.

You must be talking about another offer that I can't find. Are you allowed to state the title of the thread.?

Edit ..Yeah you MUST be talking about another offer or your objection makes no sense . the copy even specifies

Even if you only use Share As Image PRO for the next 10 years, this is worth over $1,000.

[kindsvater]

Mike, when you don't address a point being made but instead make an ad hominem post it doesn't advance the discussion. It creates tangents. It creates arguments. It creates dissension.

It exemplifies the issue I raised near the end of my post. When trolls / bad posters are allowed to attack the original poster / seller instead of having a discussion about the issues, then posters / sellers leave. Many people have said that in different forms in this thread as to why major product sellers are not selling via the forum.

I don't want that. I want to bring them back into the forum.

My post had nothing to do with new versus old management. My suggestion about Paul was because I cannot think of anyone who has more experience in seeing how a marketing forum ticks, what works and what has not in keeping sellers and buyers happy, and tapping into mindsets and issues I my never have thought of that would help make this place an even greater place to visit.

If you would have said, yes, Paul has a lot of experience but maybe it would be better if a consultant had fresh blood from someone who can look at issues from a different perspective, such as ___________ who ran the __________ forum for a decade - that would have been a good post.

But instead of making a positive contribution to the discussion, or to the forum, you twist and warp any post into a fabricated battleground of dissension when none previously existed.

Good gosh. No one can even make a suggestion to try and help the forum address some of the issues that have been raised without you flaming away.

You're also entirely misreading "motive" behind posts. When an issue gets resolved, such as the accessibility and stability of the forum, discussion ends because the issue has ended.

But when another issue arises, such as a new rule regarding use of the word 'warrior' anywhere in a WSO post, and a moderator extrapolating that to tell someone they cannot use a reference to 'wso' - it is worth of discussion as to pros and cons and to flesh out the impact of the rule.

Has absolutely zippo to do with new management. We'd be having the same discussion regardless of who made that rule and whoever was saying wso references cannot be used.

Here's a possible forum feature: allow a WSO seller to block certain individuals from posting in their sales thread. If someone is trolling a seller and repeatedly making attacks against them, instead of forcing the seller to complain to support in post after post, thread after thread, and taking up support time to evaluate the bitch session, have one simple block. The forum could also review blocks and if the same person is getting blocked by numerous sellers then there would be grounds for a timeout from posting. Or, if the seller is repeatedly using a lot of blocks that might suggest an issue with the seller.

.

[Mike Anthony]

Kindsvater. Rather than dignify that whole page load of spin and your own "ad homs"
(which I knew were coming) with point by point answers I will just make the observation

Present admin - Daniel and Alaister
Past admin - Paul Meyers

Listing off a whole set of issues and complaining about them and then saying hire Paul to tell you what to do is to any logical rational grown adult human being a reference to past administration just as I said. truth might get you angry but its still truth. Claiming its mind reading, motive reading is just the new strategy to dodge what words were actually said or their clear meaning.

If you wish to suggest Paul for consultancy then do it privately by PM . Publicly listing off issue and how they don't have it together then touting the past admin as the savior is belittling and undermining their authority and its done repetitively. Perhaps they will hire him but within this context it inappropriate (and since this is far and away not the only time the suggestion has been made hardly necessary). You can spin all you wish but its not productive, is done constantly and its wrong.

Right now the issue at hand is conversing and working solutions out directly with our admins not looking backwards or implying they can't handle the issues themselves if we work with them.

If thats flame material to you then flame on . More flame retardant product testing for me plus I am not really buying you get to determine what a good post is.

[ForumGuru]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

But when another issue arises, such as a new rule regarding use of the word 'warrior' anywhere in a WSO post, and a moderator extrapolating that to tell someone they cannot use a reference to 'wso' - it is worth of discussion as to pros and cons and to flesh out the impact of the rule.

I agree a discussion should take place and I think it is one of the reasons why this thread was created. As has been mentioned before, Daniel is an admin that works closely with Alaister. He has been actively taking suggestions on Warrior Forum for at least a month or two, and he has been giving a bit of insight on what types of changes we can expect on the forum.

Check out this post... I had to screenshot it because quoting it leave out half of the "conversation". I believe it has a place on this thread.







http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ss-i-quit.html

Cheers

-don

[David Mcalorum]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Hey X . I might be wrong but heres a possible ray of sunshine if we start talking with management rather than at them.

Yeah, talking WITH them would be great... but that requires them to speak up.
And I haven't heard a peep since we started discussing these issues deeply a few days
back. Hell, I want to talk WITH them. But conversation is a two way street. So in the mean time I suppose we will just have to voice our opinion's and talk AT them.

Hey, mods... PLEASE join in this conversation ANY TIME !! Lets talk!

[Tom E]

What David Mcalorum said. I'm apparently not the only one experiencing extremely long wait times for Moderators to reply these days. A moderator put one of my WSO's in invisible mode so that I could update my sales copy to be compliant with their new TOS. I did make the changes.

That was 4 days ago. No response to any of my PM's. Meanwhile my WSO is dead in the water. It wasn't that long ago that there would be a response within 24 hours, usually quicker, when communicating with a Mod.

A lot of people's income depends on their WSO's being live here in the forum, so it's disappointing to see that we now get brushed aside. I can appreciate that the WF is trying to establish a new audience with all these new changes, but it seems unnecessary to alienate the vendors who have contributed to making this place profitable in the first place.

I do understand that today is January 12th - the day when everyone must be compliant with the new TOS, and I would hope that Freelancer/WF anticipated that and beefed up their workforce to avoid WSO's being left inactive, but at least speaking for myself, that isn't my experience.

[James Campbell]

Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach

The problem is who is Mike Lantz to go around bestowing awards and titles on products sold in this forum?

It has nothing to do with the product being sold on this forum, but rather the product being sold through WarriorPlus system that he owns and operates. Which is why you see many offers being given the award from him that are listed outside of this forum.

Clearly, you just don't have an understanding of the actual issue.

JVZoo has a product of the day.
WarriorPlus has a similar thing
WarriorPay (owned by this forum) does something similar, though I don't seem to get the emails daily

Hope that clears it up for you.

[XXXXXXXX]

They haven't responded to my question above about why the sales page links I posted were removed. I think it is important for people to see the difference in the sales page once all the references to "make money" are removed.

Also like I said before .... no matter what they respond now in this thread.... someone is going to shred them...so I doubt they will respond to our comments.

I think at this point they have made the policy...and since we haven't seen any email or comments stating different ....they are not going to change anything.

X

Originally Posted by David Mcalorum

Yeah, talking WITH them would be great... but that requires them to speak up.
And I haven't heard a peep since we started discussing these issues deeply a few days
back. Hell, I want to talk WITH them. But conversation is a two way street. So in the mean time I suppose we will just have to voice our opinion's and talk AT them.

Hey, mods... PLEASE join in this conversation ANY TIME !! Lets talk!

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Mcalorum

Yeah, talking WITH them would be great... but that requires them to speak up.

I suppose they will eventually. As I said before they stopped posting days before things really got heated

HOWEVER

another indicator that its not quite as bleak as sellers have feared?

Go to the WSO forum now and yep you will see copy being approved/left alone that references making money and that implies making money.

(LOL sure does look different in there and a LOT of buyers are going to be happy)

I know the hard core make such and such in this amount of days are not going to really like it but the idea of no reference to making money thing hasn't materialized.

Sorry I think the do nothing at all people are not going to be satisfied even when they do answer but thats just my guess.

[Valdor Kiebach]

Originally Posted by James Campbell

Clearly, you just don't have an understanding of the actual issue.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Clearly you didnt read or understand this part of my post

sure he can promote offers on his platform as offer of the day but does that entitle the seller to use that title in this forum?

Hope that clears it up for you.

[James Campbell]

Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach

Clearly you didnt read or understand this part of my post

Hope that clears it up for you.

Understood it perfectly. Unfortunately, even the current owners by your logic wouldn't be qualified to pick the "offer of the day" here. He chooses something completely of his own will, as do the JVZoo guys, as do the WarriorPay guys. It doesn't make the offer actually good in your eyes, my eyes. It just makes it an offer that gets attention.

If I start an IM newsletter and pick a WSO of the day everyday and send it out to my list, I am perfectly entitled to do that. It is a WSO, it is what I believe should be picked as the standout offer for the day, and so the WSO of the Day title/award given by me is perfectly legit.

Your argument that Mike Lantz or anyone else can't pick an offer of the day, whether it be a WSO or not is weak at best. It demonstrated that you didn't really understand how it all worked or you just didn't like how it all worked.

I enjoy your passive aggressive nature. It entertains me

edit: Yes that entitles a seller to name the award they've received from someone. Anyone really. Doesn't have to be from WarriorPlus/Mike Lantz. You'll notice there is a big "seal" for another WSO award in many threads. If they are awarded it by that person/entity, then why in the world could they not specify they have been given that award? They aren't claiming it is coming from the forum.

[Paul Myers]

Mike,

Sorry I think the do nothing at all people are not going to be satisfied even when they do answer but thats just my guess.

A good guess, if history is any indicator.

General commentary, to no-one in particular...

No decision they make or policy they implement will avoid loud and often condemnatory comments from some group or other. There are too many conflicting interests, and each group thinks theirs should be the priority. The concept of balance is something to which a lot of people in this market seem oblivious.

You can see it in this thread. Sellers claim they're the ones who support the forum, but without buyers they're not going to be here long. Buyers demand protection from everything from false claims (legitimate demand) to their own reckless desire for instant and effortless results (not the sanest request).

The Freelancer folks are learning the balance. They'll "get it" quickly enough. And they'll make decisions they believe will fit the balance needed to make their long term plans work effectively.

There's no way that end result, whatever they want it to be, is going to make everyone happy. Trying would be a fool's errand, and they're not fools.


Paul